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BONUS: George Floyd medical examiners' reports revealed. What do we learn? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. There has been a lot of discussion
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  Speaker 1: about the autopsy and findings of George Floyd. The prosecutors. Okay,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: what did they say was the cause and manner of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: death with regard to George Floyd. I think that it's
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  Speaker 1: very important that first off, we framed this in the
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  Speaker 1: sense that this is a preliminary finding. This is not
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  Speaker 1: the final report. This is something that they have initially
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  Speaker 1: released to the public and it's essentially a one page document.
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  Speaker 1: What they did find at autopsy was that Floyd had
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  Speaker 1: significant pathology going on, and what that means is that
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  Speaker 1: they've identified hypertension, hypertensive changes in his body, which probably
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  Speaker 1: goes to things like thickening of the mild cardium or
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  Speaker 1: the muscle of the heart wall. Also, he's got significant
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  Speaker 1: athroscrotic cardiovascular disease and you know, kind of an nutshell,
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  Speaker 1: what that means is that he probably had elevated cholesterol
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  Speaker 1: which led to these little blockages in the coronary vessels,
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  Speaker 1: and that is significant in and of itself. We do
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  Speaker 1: know that they have in fact ruled the manner of death,
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  Speaker 1: and they were very open about this. They ruled the
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  Speaker 1: manner of death as homicide, which, for folks that don't know,
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  Speaker 1: there's only five things that the medical examiner can choose from.
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  Speaker 1: Unlike lawyers, they only have five. They have homicide, suicide, accidental, natural,
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  Speaker 1: and undetermined. There are not varying degrees in the medical
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  Speaker 1: legal community, only that choice, and they did, in fact
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  Speaker 1: rule the manner as homicide, which means death at another
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  Speaker 1: person's hand. The family then hired a private medical examiner
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  Speaker 1: in doctor Michael Biden. He's world renowned. What did he
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  Speaker 1: determine was the causing manner at death? Well, he's he's
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  Speaker 1: ruling this as well. He's saying that this is in
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  Speaker 1: fact a homicide. But what he talks about in his release,
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  Speaker 1: as opposed to what the Hennipod County Medical Examiner UH
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  Speaker 1: talked about, is that Boden goes into some kind of
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  Speaker 1: specifics and they are significant. And what makes them so
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  Speaker 1: significant is that he identifies trauma, he identifies hemorrhage, and
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  Speaker 1: if if our listeners will just understand that we have
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  Speaker 1: what are called we have what are called cervical vertebral bodies, okay,
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  Speaker 1: and that that literally supports our head and you know
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  Speaker 1: there there They range from starting at C one, which
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  Speaker 1: literally supports the skull. He's talking about C three, C four,
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  Speaker 1: and C five, and there is associated hemorrhage alongside those
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  Speaker 1: vertebral bodies, which actually, when you take a look at
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  Speaker 1: the video, is very consistent with someone placing pressure directly
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  Speaker 1: onto that area. One other thing that's very significant is
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  Speaker 1: that our brain, our brains require a tremendous amount of
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  Speaker 1: oxygenated blood, and that is supplied by the corotded vessels, okay,
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  Speaker 1: or the crowded arteries. He has found alongside the right
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  Speaker 1: coroded vessel or the right crodded artery significant hemorrhage in
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  Speaker 1: that specific area, which means at some point in time,
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  Speaker 1: at some point time along this continuum, when all of
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  Speaker 1: this was going on, there was direct pressure applied to
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  Speaker 1: that vessel. What about the toxicology report? Oh yeah, and
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  Speaker 1: this again is central to this, and we have to
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  Speaker 1: go back to the Hinnepon medical examiner's findings, which was
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  Speaker 1: kind of striking because they release this information much more
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  Speaker 1: quickly than we commonly see in many of these cases.
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  Speaker 1: And what they found was that he had fentnel on board,
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  Speaker 1: which of course we know is a depressant, which literally
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  Speaker 1: means that it depresses the respiratory system, It depresses our ability,
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  Speaker 1: our judgment. Many times people that are own fentyl will
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  Speaker 1: kind of give the impression that they're intoxicated, like with alcohol.
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  Speaker 1: One other interesting part here was that they stated that
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  Speaker 1: there was evidence of recent methamphetamine use. Now I don't
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  Speaker 1: know how they're drawing that conclusion. I have no idea,
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  Speaker 1: because let's go back to this and think about this.
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  Speaker 1: We have two findings in forensic toxicology. What that means
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  Speaker 1: is that we have a qualitative amount which are a
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  Speaker 1: qualitative presence, which when you do the initial test, you
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  Speaker 1: say this is there. In this instance, let's say there
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  Speaker 1: is fentyl there, or there is evidence of methamphetamine or
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  Speaker 1: evidence of alcohol or aspirin or whatever it is. But
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  Speaker 1: it's not quantitative, and quantitative is the key. They have
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  Speaker 1: not release that information, and what that's going to tell
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  Speaker 1: us is how much of these substances did he actually
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  Speaker 1: have in his system? Because there are what are referred
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  Speaker 1: to as therapeutical levels that means treatable, that means using
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  Speaker 1: these substances, and these substances can be used to treat
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  Speaker 1: people with what's an acceptable range. And then what is
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  Speaker 1: a fatal level. You know, where are you going to
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  Speaker 1: be so impaired that it's going to impact the system, say,
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  Speaker 1: for instance, your ability to breathe, your ability relative to
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  Speaker 1: your neurofunctions, all these things, and most importantly, can it
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  Speaker 1: affect the heart. We have two autopsies, and these are
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  Speaker 1: preliminary findings. As you've pointed out, We have the prosecution
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  Speaker 1: with their preliminary findings based on autopsy, and then we
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  Speaker 1: have the family hiring doctor Michael Boden to provide a
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  Speaker 1: second topsy. Again, these are still preliminary findings and based
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  Speaker 1: on the experience of all those involved to project a
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  Speaker 1: manner and cause of death. Purely from a medical standpoint,
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  Speaker 1: they are claiming that that knee and the neck did contribute. Correct. Yes, yes,
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  Speaker 1: they are saying that that. Listen, it's very simple. You
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  Speaker 1: have to ask this question, and medical examiners do this
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  Speaker 1: all the time. They have to ask this question if,
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  Speaker 1: for instance, in mister Floyd's case, if mister Floyd had
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  Speaker 1: not been subjected to this treatment in the street on
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  Speaker 1: that particular night, with all of these surrounding peripheral issues,
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  Speaker 1: would he still be alive today? And I think that
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  Speaker 1: probably we can say in the affirmative that yes, he
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  Speaker 1: would still be alive today had he had his path
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  Speaker 1: not crossed with these police officers that night. So that
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  Speaker 1: has to factor into it, and that goes to the mechanism,
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  Speaker 1: It goes to the peripheral causal issues revolving around this.
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  Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, it's very simple.
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  Speaker 1: It's it's academic, if you will. When we talk about
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  Speaker 1: the toxicology reports, including history of methamphetamine news Fenton al
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  Speaker 1: in his system, how can these be listed or do
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  Speaker 1: they need to be listed as contributing factors to the
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  Speaker 1: man's death. From a prosecutorial standpoint, this is the reality.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Michael Boden's autopsy is not going to be used
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  Speaker 1: in Sport when they go to prosecute this guy. Well,
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  Speaker 1: what will be used is what the Hnnepen County Medical
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  Speaker 1: Examiner has generated along with the toxicological findings that will
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  Speaker 1: be stated in open court. And we will get those results,
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  Speaker 1: I can assure you probably sooner than later. We're going
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  Speaker 1: to find out what they saw anatomically, that is, how
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  Speaker 1: badly were his coronary arteries occluded are blocked, what was
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  Speaker 1: a degree of the hypertensive changes in the heart, and
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  Speaker 1: most importantly, what were the toxicological findings relative to quantitative amounts?
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  Speaker 1: And all of these things are factoring in now Boden,
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Biden has the luxury of merely stating without seeing
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  Speaker 1: the toxicological results or anything else. He has the luxury
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  Speaker 1: of stating that unequivocally that his death, that mister Floyd's
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  Speaker 1: death is solely related to the compression of the neck. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: none of the other peripheral considerations are brought in. He
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  Speaker 1: hasn't to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't seen
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  Speaker 1: toxicology yet. He hasn't seen a lot of the other data,
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  Speaker 1: perhaps at this point. But you know, he's really sticking
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  Speaker 1: his neck out on this because the rest of this
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  Speaker 1: report will come out. Now it might favor Biden. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, but then again it might not. But he
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  Speaker 1: has already said in the affirmative. But that is not
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  Speaker 1: the official report. The official report will be issued by
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  Speaker 1: the Hinnepot County Medical Examiners Office. Is there a substantial
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  Speaker 1: difference between the findings of what the prosecutors found out
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  Speaker 1: with Hennipid County or Michael Boden. Is there a substantial
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  Speaker 1: difference between those two preliminary findings. Well, I think that
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  Speaker 1: there is because the m E for Henipond County is
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  Speaker 1: stating that this is a homicide obviously, but they're stating
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  Speaker 1: that it was. It leans more or list more toward
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  Speaker 1: the underlying natural causes that were exacerbated by the pressure
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  Speaker 1: on the neck, but his cause of death was as
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  Speaker 1: a result of some kind of natural disease pathology, though
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  Speaker 1: it's ruled as a homicide. And then very plainly on
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  Speaker 1: the other side, doctor Biden said, no, this is a
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  Speaker 1: traumatically related event. We've got hemorrhage that's running alongside the
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  Speaker 1: cervical spinal column. We've got hemorrhage that's immediately adjacent to
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  Speaker 1: the right heroated vessel, which is significant. And I you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm hoping that when I see the hennepend County Medical
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  Speaker 1: Examiner's report that data is going to be contained therein
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  Speaker 1: as well. Look, the people at Hennepin County mm are
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  Speaker 1: very professional and very thorough, and I'm sure that they
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  Speaker 1: made note of these issues as well. At the end
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  Speaker 1: of the day, this is going to come down. I
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  Speaker 1: think when it goes to court, it's going to come
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  Speaker 1: down to a battle of dueling pathologists. And but you know,
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  Speaker 1: is Biden actually going to be called in on the
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  Speaker 1: criminal trial? I don't know, because you have to understand
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  Speaker 1: what's the motivation behind this. You've already got a finding
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  Speaker 1: of homicide. So what way, what utility is Biden's expertise
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  Speaker 1: going to be brought to bear? Well? I can only
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  Speaker 1: think that it's one to attempt to leverage the prosecutor
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  Speaker 1: to elevate the charges. Okay, because as you mentioned or
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  Speaker 1: as has been mentioned, this is a third degree homicide
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  Speaker 1: that we're talking about, which is kind of a it's
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  Speaker 1: kind of a mushy kind of finding, you know. For
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  Speaker 1: the prosecutor charge it's you know, negligent, there's no intent.
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  Speaker 1: If you read the statute, will this boost this up?
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  Speaker 1: Will it compel the prosecutor to elevate these charges? That
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  Speaker 1: might be one part. And obviously when any kind of
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  Speaker 1: civil litigation is going to follow this, and I can
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  Speaker 1: assure you that it will, Boden will testify in that
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  Speaker 1: particular case. Well, the only purpose here of bringing in
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  Speaker 1: the toxicology, which usually takes six to ten weeks to
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  Speaker 1: get it back, and we're getting preliminary findings. If he
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  Speaker 1: didn't overdose. I don't know how the toxicology even comes
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  Speaker 1: into play. Well, the toxicology comes into play by virtue
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  Speaker 1: of the fact that he mister Floyd's system may have
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  Speaker 1: been compromised listened. Just because somebody might be under the
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  Speaker 1: influence of something doesn't It doesn't give the police, you know,
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  Speaker 1: broad latitude to go and treat that individual anyway they
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  Speaker 1: choose to. Keep in mind, and this is very important,
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  Speaker 1: keep in mind that police are held to a different
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  Speaker 1: standard than everybody else, everybody else because they are trained
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  Speaker 1: to recognize, say, for instance, of physical responses in an
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  Speaker 1: individual on the street. They encounter people day in and
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  Speaker 1: day out. Can you look at somebody and say, well,
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  Speaker 1: they might be impaired in some way, we might need
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  Speaker 1: to help, or we might need to treat this individual
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  Speaker 1: in a different manner as opposed to somebody that's completely
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  Speaker 1: lucid and has their faculties about them. You can't. It's
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  Speaker 1: not a one size fits all. That's what makes police
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  Speaker 1: very difficult. And in this particular case, this gentleman, miss Floyd,
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  Speaker 1: was treated in a manner which led to his death. Now,
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  Speaker 1: you know, you can't say that the heart disease wasn't
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  Speaker 1: a factor of highpertension, wasn't a factor that the drugs
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  Speaker 1: might be a factor. But at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this police officer brought
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  Speaker 1: about the death of mister Floyd