Latest / Reformed Thinking / Open-Air Preaching: Posture, Action, and Gesture | Charles Spurgeon

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Open-Air Preaching: Posture, Action, and Gesture | Charles Spurgeon · Reformed Thinking

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  Reformed thinking. Welcome to Reformed thinking,
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  where we consider how biblical truth shapes every facet of our
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  lives in service to God. Today we're doing a special deep
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  dive into, well, a topic that might genuinely surprise you.
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  It's the physical elements of preaching.
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  We're talking about how a speaker stands, how they move,
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  what their gestures communicate. You might wonder, how
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  significant could these things really be?
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  I mean, when we talk about the Spirit's work and the Word of
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  God itself, well, you might be astonished at how much thought
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  has been devoted to these small things by my figures like
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  Charles Spurgeon. That's absolutely right.
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  When we think about sermons, our minds, you know, rightly go
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  straight to the message. The theology of the spiritual
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  preparation that primary. But as Spurgeon wisely observed
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  from his huge experience, even seemingly minor details can
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  either, well, they can adorn the truth or they can detract from
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  it. Our deep dive today unpacks his
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  pretty wide-ranging thoughts on posture, gesture in action.
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  We'll see why these aspects, the secondary, weren't what he
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  actually called a holy care from those who proclaim God's word.
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  We'll look at the good, the bad, and yeah, there's sometimes
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  quite comical examples he offers.
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  And consider what this tells us about presenting truth clearly
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  and and without hindrance. So for you, our listener, as you
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  get ready to plunge into this with us, our mission is to offer
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  a particular perspective on sermon delivery.
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  We're bringing a Reformed theological lens to even the,
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  well, the mechanics of speaking, because we believe every part of
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  our service to God matters. You'll gain a distinct view into
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  why these details are significant, how they can impede
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  a message, and what contributes to effective sort of unobtrusive
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  communication. Get ready to look at preaching
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  from an entirely fresh angle. OK, well let's open this up
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  then, Spurgeon. He starts by establishing a very
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  distinct hierarchy, doesn't he? What's the main thing here and
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  where do these physical elements fit in?
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  He's remarkably direct on this. He states quite clearly that the
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  sermon itself is the main thing, it's matter, it's aim, and the
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  Spirit in which it is brought before the people.
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  The sacred anointing upon the preacher and the divine
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  enablement applying the truth to the hearer.
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  Me, he says, are infinitely more important than any details of
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  manner. So that sets the theological
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  framework straight away. God's truth, the Spirit's work,
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  the preacher's heart, these are absolutely supreme, infinitely
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  more important. He really stresses that, doesn't
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  he? There's no wiggle room there.
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  The content, the spiritual life of the message, that's king.
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  Everything else supports it. It doesn't over shadow it.
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  Which fits perfectly with our Reformed view that God's Word,
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  brought alive by His Spirit, is the chief means of grace.
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  Exactly. Yet, and this is the interesting
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  part, despite being comparatively small and
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  inconsiderable matters, posture and action should be regarded
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  with holy care. Now this is a contradiction.
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  It's more about stewarding all things for God's glory,
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  recognizing that even small things can impact how the
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  message is received. He uses this really neat
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  classical illusion. Even the sandal in the statue of
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  Minerva should be correctly carved.
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  The idea is that in any great work, especially God's work,
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  every detail contributes to the whole thing, its integrity, its
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  beauty, its effectiveness. It demands care and everything.
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  That's a powerful image, the sandal on the statue, it really
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  paints a picture of that holy care.
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  And it uses biblical analogies to small flies.
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  Make the apothecary's ointment to stink and little foxes spoil
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  the Hinds. You might be listening right now
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  thinking, why spend time on this seemingly trivial stuff?
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  But Spurgeon warns that these minor faults, these small flies,
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  they can spoil an otherwise good ministry over time.
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  He says pretty bluntly that faults, and Even so secondary a
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  matter as posture, have prejudice men's minds and so
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  injured the success of what would otherwise have been most
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  acceptable ministries. It's not just about adding good
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  things, it's about removing the bad.
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  Which leads to some maybe surprising practical advice, he
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  says. Is that so much incumbent upon
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  you to acquire right pulpit action as it is to get rid of
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  that which is wrong? So it's a preventative mindset
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  first. Clear away the clutter, the
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  distractions. Before you try to add fancy
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  techniques. Make sure the vessel is clean.
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  That really is a striking point. We often focus on what to add,
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  you know, what new skills to learn.
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  But here the main thing is removing hindrances, stripping
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  away anything that distracts. And that applies way beyond
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  preaching, doesn't it? In so many areas of service, a
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  distracting habit when teaching or even just talking seriously
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  with someone. It does.
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  He even says, and this is quite stark, that being a motionless
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  dummy is actually better than being an active and even
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  vigorous incarnation of the grotesque.
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  His priorities Crystal clear. The goal is an amazing oratory
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  for its own sake. It's making sure nothing, not
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  even like overly enthusiastic but awkward gestures, distract
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  from the truth. The message is central.
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  The delivery should just serve it quietly.
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  OK, now here's where it gets really interesting.
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  Spurgeon has some incredibly vivid examples, examples of how
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  ineffective or, you know, distracting physical delivery
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  can completely derail A sermon. What are some of these pitfalls
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  he talks about? Oh, he doesn't hold back.
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  He talks about how ridiculous action can throw a preacher into
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  the rear rank and kept there no matter how smart or spiritual
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  they are. It's sad, but a poor
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  presentation can really over shadow genuine gifts and solid
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  teaching in many people's eyes. That's why these small things
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  need that holy care. Right.
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  And he notes that the general public, especially those who
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  come to scoff, they often see nothing but these little
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  oddities and absurdities. It gives them an excuse for
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  inattention, helps them resist the message.
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  He talks about a suicidal style of preaching, things like a
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  discordant wine, singular attitudes, extraordinary
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  mouthings. These things can make a good
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  man, you know, respected for his character, but people just won't
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  listen to his message. There's that story about good
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  Christian men not knowing whether to laugh or cry.
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  Hearing someone like that, the absurdity clashes with the
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  seriousness. It's tragic, really.
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  And it goes beyond just being ridiculous.
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  Spurgeon points out times when the action absolutely
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  contradicts the meaning of the words.
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  Who That creates? This a jarring disconnect for
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  the listener. It undermines the sincerity.
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  You hear one thing, see another, and you tend to believe what you
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  see. And the examples are so clear,
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  like crying oh heaven while pointing down at the floor.
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  That's a classic. He mentions.
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  Or describing dying weakness by like banging on the pulpit,
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  wringing your hands while talking about the joys of faith.
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  Or gripping the pulpit like grim death while telling people to
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  hold earthly things with a loose hand, clasping your hands tight
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  while saying the gospel is expansive, opens its arms to men
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  that should be arms open wide rants and preaching the gospel
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  of peace like you're in a fight or of free Christ with a
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  clinched fist. He compares that to Bendigo the
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  boxer and making a revolution of both fists while saying, and I
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  will give you rest. I mean that just creates a
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  ridiculous idea, completely cancels out the peace.
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  And it's not just gestures. The tone is huge too.
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  That Abbe Molloy anecdote is perfect.
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  A preacher says depart ye cursed but in this super bland gentle
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  way and this witty guy interpreted as come here my lad
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  and let me embrace you. It shows how tone and manner can
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  totally reverse the meaning. It's about the whole picture.
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  Spurgeon also warns about going too far with imitative action.
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  You know, acting things out literally.
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  It seems like it would help, but it can backfire badly.
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  Definitely. He tells this story about a
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  young preacher trying to illustrate shutting out God's
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  truth. So he closes his eyes for
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  shutting your eyes to the light, puts fingers in his ears for
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  stopping your ears, turns his back for turning your backs upon
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  salvation. As a result, not seriousness,
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  but laughter. People just found it theatrical
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  and funny, not moving. The message got lost in the
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  performance. That makes me think of that
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  famous story about Edmund Burke and Parliament with a dagger.
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  He was warning about the French Revolution, pulls out a dagger,
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  throws it down dramatically and shared in the wit, just says the
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  gentleman has brought us the knife.
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  Where is the fork? Totally killed the mood.
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  Shows how dramatic gestures can just fall flat or seem silly.
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  Exactly. Overdone actions like that
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  strike others. From its comic side, the focus
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  shifts from the message to the preachers performance or just
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  how funny it looks. The goal is Christ not being a
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  spectacle. And then there's a really simple
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  but crucial point. Just not making eye contact.
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  Yeah, ministers lose a great influence, Spurgeon says, when
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  they cannot look at their people during pleading time.
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  Those moments of earnest appeal, it's fundamental to connection,
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  especially when you're trying to reach hearts without eye
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  contact. It feels distant, impersonal.
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  It really does. It's hard to connect if you're
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  not looking at someone. You imagine these preachers
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  staring at their notes or the ceiling, or just into space
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  while pleading. Look to Jesus upon the cross.
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  How can you convey that urgency, that personal call, if your eyes
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  are somewhere else? It feels like you're talking
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  about them, not to them. It's why someone like Doctor
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  Whelan made this resolution. If he preached again, he'd
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  preach directly to men, looking them in their faces and not
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  looking at the paper on the desk.
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  It shows this conviction that direct personal engagement
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  through the eyes is vital for the gospel meeting people eye to
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  eye, literally and spiritually. OK, so it's really clear what
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  not to do. But where does all this
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  awkwardness actually come from? Is it just how some people are
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  or can preachers work on it? Well, Spurgeon does acknowledge
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  that some men are just naturally very awkward in their persons
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  and movements. He puts it down to their
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  broadens up their upbringing, their habits, or even an innate
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  lumpishness and lumberliness. He humorously says you could not
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  make them elegant if you braid them in a mortar among wheat
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  with a pestle. So yeah, some people just aren't
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  naturally graceful. That's quite an image, like the
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  rustics gate he mentions. Awkward on a city street but
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  fine in a field. So if some awkwardness is just
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  innate, is there any hope or are they stuck?
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  No, there's definitely hope. Spurgeon recommends drill
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  exercise like in the military. He explains how drill helps with
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  posture, arm swing, chest expansion, knowing what to do
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  with your hands. It teaches you how to walk
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  uprightly without thinking about it.
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  It makes movements shipshape, you know, orderly, well
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  executed. It's about cultivating a basic
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  physical poise so it becomes natural.
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  Not clumsy self consciousness. Not about being a dancer, just
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  competent. And beyond just natural
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  awkwardness, he links awkward gestures to other things too,
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  like feeble utterance or just feeling nervous and lacking
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  power. Right.
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  He uses Doctor James Hamilton as an example.
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  A brilliant speaker, apparently. Beautiful thoughts, really
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  fervent, but he lacked vocal force, couldn't project well,
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  and this led to painful action. He was constantly straining,
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  standing on tip toes, sort of throwing out his words in
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  handfuls just to be heard in his large church.
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  His physical movement showed his vocal struggle.
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  And that difficulty, even with all his gifts, largely detracted
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  from the power and popularity of his preaching.
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  His rare qualities were shorn of half their strength.
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  Kind of sobering, isn't it? How something physical can
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  hinder a spiritual ministry so much shows how connected it all
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  is. But Hamiltons response is really
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  encouraging too. Spurgeon says he earnestly
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  endeavored to overcome his natural disadvantage, even took
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  lessons of more than one professor of elocution.
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  He kept working at it, even though it was a physical defect
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  beyond all remedy in his case. It shows that diligence, that
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  stewardship, even if perfection is impossible, we do our part.
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  So for awkwardness you really can't fix, maybe a physical
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  limitation? What's the advice?
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  In those cases, Spurgeon says, basically don't make a big deal
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  of it. Commend the brother for managing
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  so well. Let the soul triumph over the
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  body through the message itself. But for faults you can fix, the
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  instruction is clear resolve to overcome it.
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  He mentions Edward Irving, who apparently started out awkward,
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  constrained and unnatural, but through diligent culture, real
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  effort transformed his manner into an aid to his eloquence.
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  So improvement is possible. And what about just plain
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  nervousness, something lots of people can relate to?
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  What are the remedies there? 2 main things, practice is a
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  great remedy and faith in God is a still more potent cure.
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  He explains that as you get used to the people, feel at ease at
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  home, your focus shifts off yourself and onto the message.
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  Then you can go to work with all his heart, leading to those
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  unsteady gestures, the ones that just flow naturally, which are
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  the very best. He's a bit critical of just
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  hiding nervousness behind a manuscript saying you should
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  conquer the root issue, not just hide the symptoms.
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  True confidence comes from practice and trusting God.
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  He also notes that sometimes odd gestures pop up just from
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  struggling to find the right word or getting tangled in a
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  sentence. That's interesting how the brain
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  working hard shows up physically.
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  It is. He gives examples from observers
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  of famous American speakers. Mr. Calhoun, when stuck, would
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  twitch his collar, run fingers through his hair.
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  Daniel Webster might scratch his eye, rub his nose or spread his
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  knees and jam his hands in his pockets.
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  Like physically trying to force the word out.
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  Involuntary things born of that mental effort.
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  And lastly, he talks about how speakers can gradually just fall
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  into a suicidal style or pick up bad habits, get entangled in the
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  meshes of an evil mannerism, these little unconscious things.
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  Yeah, they can be really subtle, like tugging a button or just
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  constantly twiddling fingers of free accompaniment to the
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  speech, but totally meaningless and distracting little ticks
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  that creep in. There's that funny story from
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  Addison about the lawyer who twisted a piece of string while
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  arguing his client stole the string and the poor guy just
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  couldn't speak. Lost the case.
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  Shows how ingrained those habits can become.
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  And Spurgeon's advice, if you don't have these habits, be upon
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  your guard, lest they should gradually yield to them.
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  It's about constant self-awareness, spiritual
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  discipline, guarding against those small destructive habits.
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  Applies to all of us, really. No, it's not just the preacher's
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  own habits, right? Sometimes the environment itself
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  is the problem. Spurgeon had some really strong
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  words for pulpits. Horrible inventions, he called
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  them. What was his issue?
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  Oh, his criticism of those old, enclosed, high sighted pulpits
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  is sharp. Horrible inventions, yes, and a
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  greater curse to the churches than is at first sight evident.
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  He really saw them as a major hindrance to effective
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  preaching. He even jokingly used Joshua's
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  curse on Jericho about them. Shows how strongly he felt.
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  It's funny but highlights his passion for removing barriers.
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  His main point was that these pulpits bury a preacher almost
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  up to his shoulders. You just see an animated bust
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  this confinement, he argued, quoting Austin's Karanomia, cuts
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  off more than half of his figure, which is injurious to
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  the graceful action Verve. He asks how could a lawyer plead
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  a case effectively if they were imprisoned like that?
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  You just can't convey full conviction with only half your
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  body showing. Makes sense.
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  You can't really project authority or warmth when you're
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  stuck in a box. It's so different from images of
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  someone like Chrysostom standing commanding versus a preacher
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  just hunched over, notes only head and shoulders visible.
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  The pulpy forces an unnatural posture.
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  And ironically, this confinement leads to awkwardness when
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  preachers leave the box, he mentions Thomas Binney.
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  Strangely, enclosing open platforms with gowns shows how
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  powerful habit is. Spurgeon just dryly notes There
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  can be no real advantage in being enclosed in a wooden pen.
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  So what happens when these animated bus get onto an open
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  platform? Well, Spurgeon says, you can't
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  really blame preachers for awkward postures.
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  When they're stuck in those things, the pulpit dictates it.
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  But then when they are on an open platform, totally visible,
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  they feel awkward and exposed. They literally not know what to
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  do with their legs and arms, leading to ridiculous attitudes
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  because they're used to the box and haven't learned natural full
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  body movement. I can relate to his personal
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  experience too. Being short, he often had to
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  stand on a hassock in deep pulpits and that Sydney Smith
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  story is hilarious but also awful.
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  His stack of hassocks collapsing mid sermon, illustrating cast
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  down but not destroyed just shows how unstable and
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  distracting those setups were. It does, and he concludes that
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  these boxed up pulpits are largely accountable for the
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  ungainly postures which some of our preachers assume when
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  they're out of their cages, the environment literally fapes and
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  often misshapes the delivery. And besides the structure, he
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  lists all these petty annoyances inside the pulpits.
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  They sound dreadful. They really do things like the
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  abominable savor of gas from leaks.
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  Gas lighting was common but leaky, making preachers feel
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  sick or dizzy. Big lamps, cramping movement and
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  pouring terrible heat onto the head, risking artificial coup de
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  Soleil sunstroke. Uncomfortable seats like a
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  mirror ledge, door handles poking you in the back.
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  Even those curious good approach a bags early hearing aids like
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  speaking tubes getting in the way, constant little
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  irritations. It's hard to imagine dealing
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  with those abominations that not only caused physical problems
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  problems, but distracted everyone.
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  How could anyone focus on God's message?
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  He says such discomforts often throw the mind out of gear,
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  disconnect our thoughts and trouble our spirit.
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  And while preachers ought to rise superior, he acknowledges
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  the flesh is weak. The mind is affected by these
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  things. It all leads to that famous
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  funny line. In ages to come, men will find
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  an argument for the divinity of our holy faith and the fact that
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  it survived pulpits, a testament to how much they hinder things.
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  Yet the truth persisted. OK, wow.
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  After all those warnings, all the things not to do, what does
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  effective action actually look like?
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  What's the ideal that Golden means Spurgeon talks about?
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  The ideal, he says, is action that's unconstrained and
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  natural, totally free from mannerism, primness and
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  affectation. It shouldn't feel forced or
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  fake. It should flow from the speaker.
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  In the message. He puts it beautifully.
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  Unstudied gestures are the very best and the highest result of
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  art is to banish art and leave. The man is free to be graceful
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  as the gazelle among the mountains.
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  It's about cultivating an authenticity that just is
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  graceful. I love that gazelle image.
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  It speaks of effortless, unselfconscious grace.
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  He also mentions Greek and Italian farmers and shepherds,
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  how they adopt graceful poses naturally in their work without
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  any idea that they are doing so. It's pure nature.
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  It's that unconscious grace, not a performance.
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  Exactly, the goal isn't to practice postures before a
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  glass, nor to imitate great divines.
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  That just leads to fakeness. It's more about cultivating an
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  educated nature like a discipline, self-awareness and
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  refinement that naturally avoids being crude or absurd.
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  Refining natural tendencies through spiritual discipline.
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  Not imposing artificial techniques.
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  Presenting yourself well for the message without becoming the
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  message. So if naturalness is the base,
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  then moderation seems key, not over the top.
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  Look at ME actions. Absolutely, action should never
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  be excessive. Now, what's excessive might vary
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  culturally or personally, but generally violent and vehement
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  actions, if they're not genuinely inspired, just tend to
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  excite, ridicule, or distract. The energy needs control.
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  And he gives those examples of really energetic speakers.
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  John Guff, the temperance guy practically acting out his
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  stories. Martin Luther supposedly
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  breaking the pulpit board with his first.
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  John Knox getting so worked up he seemed like he'd Ding the
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  pulpit in Blads and knock it to pieces.
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  Incredible passion there. Incredible passion, yes, and
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  unique styles. But Spurgeon warns strongly
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  against just trying to copy those extremes he rinds.
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  This physical energy is not the power of God unto salvation.
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  The real power is spiritual in the Word and Spirit, not just
• 19:12
  muscle or drama. Mimicking them without their
• 19:15
  spirit would just look awkward. Right, that's where John
• 19:18
  Wesley's advice seems helpful. Like never clap his hands, nor
• 19:21
  thump the pulpit. Keep hands below eye level.
• 19:23
  Mostly avoid perpetual motion. That babbling of the hands.
• 19:28
  It's about avoiding distracting excess.
• 19:30
  And Russell's idea of true vehemence fits here.
• 19:33
  It's the force of inspiration, something manly and noble,
• 19:36
  elevating, not degrading. It avoids the screaming and
• 19:39
  foaming, stamping and contortions of vulgar excess.
• 19:43
  A big difference between genuine fervor and just showing off.
• 19:46
  So if you are naturally energetic, the advice isn't to
• 19:49
  kill it, but maybe repress your energies a little.
• 19:51
  Wave your hands a little less, Smite the Bible, somewhat more
• 19:53
  mercifully. Channel it, discipline it for
• 19:56
  the message. Steward that gift.
• 19:58
  And beyond moderation, action needs to be expressive and
• 20:02
  appropriate. Gestures have to speak correctly
• 20:05
  match the words. They should be like a running
• 20:07
  commentary, reinforcing the message body and voice In Sync.
• 20:11
  And the body can be so eloquent. Those examples are great.
• 20:14
  Pointing someone out of a room, refusing A handshake for ill
• 20:17
  will, finger to lips for silence, head shake for no
• 20:20
  raise, eyebrows for surprise. A shrug, condensing volumes.
• 20:23
  Open arms for expansive clasped hands for concentration.
• 20:27
  We all understand these. He goes deeper too, into the
• 20:30
  eloquence of hands and face. Hands are our best allies,
• 20:34
  capable of silent music, expressing so much, asking,
• 20:37
  promising, threatening and treating joy, grief, doubt,
• 20:40
  number, time. He quotes Quintillion on this.
• 20:43
  Hands are almost a second language, and the face and eyes
• 20:46
  play a very significant part. The face shows pleasure, grief.
• 20:50
  The eyes are crucial for connection.
• 20:52
  Which brings us back to that key point, direct eye contact,
• 20:54
  especially when appealing to people.
• 20:56
  Definitely you must fix your eyes upon the people when you
• 20:59
  come to exhortation during that pleading time.
• 21:03
  Looking anywhere else is inappropriate.
• 21:05
  It's not just etiquette, it's a great influence lost if you look
• 21:09
  away. It's about connecting
• 21:11
  spiritually to. And it's not just hands and
• 21:13
  face, right? Quintillion said.
• 21:15
  The side should bear their part, the whole body.
• 21:18
  Precisely, Cicero thought more could be done by the gesture of
• 21:22
  the whole body than just the hands.
• 21:24
  The entire frame, torso, shoulders, how you stand, it all
• 21:27
  contributes to an effective unified delivery that supports
• 21:30
  the message being fully present. And all of this comes back to
• 21:33
  just having a reverend and earnest posture overall.
• 21:37
  Yes, posture should be natural, educated and graceful, but
• 21:40
  critically, it shouldn't hamper the organs of utterance or cramp
• 21:43
  his lungs. Physical restriction hinders
• 21:46
  clear communication. The body should help, not hinder
• 21:49
  the voice. So avoid leaning over the book
• 21:52
  constantly or bending over confidentially all the time.
• 21:54
  That's seen as bad for the voice and just looks ungraceful.
• 21:57
  And definitely don't throw your head way back like you're
• 22:00
  talking to the ceiling unless it's a truly rare sublime
• 22:03
  moment. John Wesley advised the head
• 22:05
  should be modestly and decently upright, turning gently, not
• 22:10
  lapped like a statue, but not constantly bombing around
• 22:13
  either. Dignified, composed, but not
• 22:16
  stiff. And no slouching attitudes,
• 22:18
  lulling and sprawling. Our posture should fit the
• 22:21
  mission, Reflect A reverent and earnest spirit.
• 22:25
  Honor the gravity of the message and the God we serve.
• 22:28
  It's pulpit decorum. Ultimately, Spurgeon says, a
• 22:30
  preacher is closest to the golden mean when their manner
• 22:33
  doesn't attract any comet, good or bad.
• 22:35
  Why? Because it's so completely of a
• 22:38
  piece with the discourse that it is not regarded as a separate
• 22:41
  item at all. The delivery becomes invisible.
• 22:44
  The message shines through unimpeded.
• 22:46
  Manner serves matter. And that story about Mrs. Hannah
• 22:49
  Moore is perfect. Robert Hall praised her manners
• 22:51
  as perfectly proper, saying striking manners are bad
• 22:54
  manners. The best compliment is being so
• 22:56
  natural you're not noticed, letting the content be the
• 22:58
  focus. And he ends with that lovely
• 23:00
  image of the painter Claude Lorraine, paying indefatigable
• 23:03
  attention to the tiniest details.
• 23:05
  Mosses flowers to copy nature exactly that, he suggests, is
• 23:10
  the model for the preacher's care and delivery, all for the
• 23:13
  sake of the sublime truth. Small things attended to with
• 23:17
  holy care serve the grandest purpose.
• 23:20
  Clear, beautiful proclamation of God's Word.
• 23:24
  Wow, this deep dive into Spurgeon on posture, gesture,
• 23:28
  action, it really does give a fresh look at something we might
• 23:31
  think is secondary. It's so clear that while the
• 23:34
  sermon content God's Word, the spirits work.
• 23:37
  While those are absolutely supreme, even the physical side
• 23:40
  deserves, well, careful thought and discipline.
• 23:42
  It really does Spurgeon's arguments.
• 23:44
  There is strong call for diligence in everything related
• 23:46
  to proclaiming truth. By dealing with awkwardness,
• 23:49
  overcoming nerves through practice and faith, getting rid
• 23:52
  of distracting habits, preachers can help make sure nothing
• 23:54
  blocks the message. And understanding those awful
• 23:57
  pulpit designs. It gives you an appreciation for
• 23:59
  the ministry context through history and how vital it is to
• 24:02
  remove barriers to the Word. It leaves you with something to
• 24:05
  think about, doesn't it? If the sandal on a nervous
• 24:08
  statue needs care, if small flies can ruin the ointment,
• 24:11
  what small things in your own life, your own service could use
• 24:14
  some holy care to better enhance the truth you want to convey.
• 24:18
  How can you make sure your presentation, whether teaching,
• 24:21
  talking, leading points people to the content, not to you or
• 24:24
  some distraction? That's a really worthwhile
• 24:26
  reflection. This deep dive has shown us that
• 24:29
  giving God our best really means paying attention to everything,
• 24:32
  even the little details. All for His glory and the clear
• 24:36
  communication of His Word, honoring Him with our whole
• 24:39
  selves. That's all for this deep dive.
• 24:41
  Thank you for joining us on Reformed Thinking.
• 24:43
  Until next time, keep thinking Reformed and keep seeking to
• 24:46
  honor God in every detail.