Latest / Public Education Matters / Rep. Brennan on paid student teaching and why our union matters more than ever
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- Various student voices 0:08 Public education matters. Public education matters. Public education matters. Jeff Wensing 0:14 This is Public Education Matters brought to you by the Ohio Education Association. Speaker 1 0:26 Welcome back to Public Education Matters. I'm your host, Katie Olmsted, and I'm part of the communications team for the Ohio Education Association and the nearly 120,000 public school educators OEA represents around the state. We are so lucky to have these educators working in our classrooms right now, and that's especially true when you think about the barriers a lot of people face in their journey to get into the education field. Student teaching is one of them that's a full time job that is unpaid work while students are still paying their full tuition and other fees for their college programs. And for a lot of potentially great educators, that financial hurdle is just too much. They find other careers instead. There's a bill in the Ohio General Assembly right now that could help change that. It's House Bill 523, enact the Future Educators Support Act, and it would allow for paid student teaching and other financial supports for student teachers in the state. HB 523 is co sponsored by Representative Sean Patrick Brennan, who represents Parma and the rest of district 14 in the Ohio House. Of course, Representative Brennan is also an OEA retired member who just wrote a guest column for the Ohio Schools magazine about why our union matters more than ever. We sat down with him at the end of February to talk about all of it. Take a listen. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 1:59 Hello, Katie, thanks for having me at my favorite podcast. I listen to it regularly on my runs throughout the district and even here at the State House, when I'm around. I'm State Representative Sean Patrick Brennan, and I was a 30 year proud public school teacher, because public education matters, as we all know. Katie Olmsted 2:18 I've heard that before. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 2:19 Hey, I'm always, always here to help, Katie. Speaker 1 2:22 And I so appreciate you coming in to talk to us about all of these really exciting things happening, some challenging things happening. And you are the person who is in the room where these things are happening, because you are on the House Education Committee ranking member. I want to start with the thing that is exciting that's happening House Bill 523, your bill with Representative Manning, who's also a retired educator. What can you tell me? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 2:49 Well, what can I tell you? I can tell you we tried this last General Assembly with with Representative Jones, and then we reintroduced at this General Assembly again with Representative Jones, but representative Jones left, and the bill kind of sat until I found another joint sponsor, and that's representative Gayle Manning, and we had proponent we had testimony on it as as sponsors of the bill about three weeks ago now. And then, just this week, we had proponent testimony, and it went phenomenally well. The only downside is, is that there were no aspiring educators that were able to come in and speak to the bill, because they're all working in their school buildings. They're really busy in their school buildings and college and getting ready for helping out the kids that they serve every day. Katie Olmsted 3:39 And that's really the point of this bill, that's something that this bill recognizes, is that when you are doing your student teaching, you don't have time for another job, you don't have the ability to bring in the income you need to support yourself through that part of the trajectory. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 3:54 That's right. Katie Olmsted 3:55 So what would this bill do? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 3:56 So this bill has what I call three prongs, and by the way, thank you to the to those aspiring educators who sent in written testimony for the committee, because that's another way you can still be involved. So first, it does allow school districts to pay student teachers at least state minimum wage, which many aspiring educators have said that would be very, very helpful. Of course, we would like more, but we're going to start low, and it's up to the districts to decide how much they'd want to pay. It also allows school districts to provide the same set of benefits to aspiring educators that they provide to to their teachers, and that's all permissive, by the way, everything in this bill is permissive. It's not an unfunded mandate. So I want to make that clear, because I'm always pushing back on those unfunded mandates here at the State House. Secondly, it allows the Department of Education and Workforce to provide a stipend while you're student teaching and or provide testing reimbursement. We know that the cost of some of these tests have really skyrocketed, and I literally was in tears the other day during proponent testimony when one of the folks that came in to speak told us about how they hear stories from aspiring educators who will ask for their birthday or Christmas, for mom or dad or grandma to pay their testing fees, and I tear up now thinking about it, because that's just that shouldn't that should not be a thing. Katie Olmsted 5:27 It shouldn't be the barrier that stops great educators from entering the profession and student teaching really is a barrier for a lot of people. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 5:35 Yeah, the third prong of the bill, it allows the colleges or universities in Ohio to provide reduced or free tuition during the semester in which your student teaching as well. Katie Olmsted 5:46 And I think a lot of people listening to the podcast know that until this bill, you are paying their full tuition and working full time in an unpaid internship. Basically, I think a lot of people in the public aren't aware of that. They don't, they don't realize that you're paying to do that work. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 6:03 That's right, yeah, I don't think so, you know. And I probably everybody listening to the podcast has been there and done that. I did that back in 1993-94 and it was a struggle. I mean, I hear these stories about, you know, hey, I'm, I'm a mom, because a lot of students today are, you know, what we use, what we used to call when I was in school, non traditional students, and some of them have families and and many are your traditional college students. And you know, with the rising costs of room and board and the rising costs of of tuition and not having the ability to work while you're student teaching, because you're working full time as it is, and we all know that teaching is like two full time jobs, because it's the it's the time in the classroom during the day, and then in the evening, you go home and you continue your work. And we know that you work throughout the weekends as well. So we're really hoping and praying that the bill is going to get across the finish line. I encourage everybody listening to the podcast, please reach out to your state representative and state senator to encourage them to support House Bill 523. Katie Olmsted 7:08 I want to go back to something you mentioned about your student teaching. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 7:13 Yeah. Katie Olmsted 7:13 Talk to me a little bit about that experience and how, even though that was in the 90s, how that shapes what you're trying to do right now. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 7:21 Well, I can tell you that I student teaching is, is a love hate relationship, right? I loved it because I love being with the kids. It was, it was my dream to be a teacher. I loved my craft. I loved working with kids every day. You know, we know that teaching is different every single day, and that's one of the many things that makes it exciting and rewarding. But it was very difficult. You know, it's hard being a first, first year teacher, and again, it's sort of like you're the year before you you start right, a pre, pre service teacher. You know, there's a lot to learn, and it's a challenge because you're creating everything, in many cases, from scratch, and that's very time consuming. And of course, you're trying to make ends meet, you know, and I was a Pell Grant kid. If it weren't for Uncle Sam, I probably wouldn't be talking to Katie Olmsted on on this podcast this morning. So like a lot of students, I worked a job in the summer, and worked a job when I could, when I was in college, and saved money anticipating the fact that I wouldn't be working during that time that I was student teaching. In fact, I just read a testimony from a young lady who talked about the same thing, that she was literally working two jobs because the cost of her apartment and the electricity and everything that goes along with it, food and whatnot. She was just fearful. She said, she literally said she dreaded student teaching, not because of the teaching part, but the part of trying to make ends meet. And you know, when you're so focused on trying to make ends meet, that that that stress takes away from your focus on the on the students and and improving your craft. And so you know, by providing these financial incentives, we're going to take that stress off of our student teachers, and we're going to treat them like the professionals that they are. Katie Olmsted 9:26 And very clearly, you have said, This is not an unfunded mandate. This is permissive. But I do know, when there's been news coverage of it, the question is, well, where's the money coming from? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 9:36 Right. Katie Olmsted 9:37 Do you have any thoughts on on how districts might be able to make this happen? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 9:42 Well, I would, I will be the first to tell you that you know, in our General Assembly, our General Assembly, as you've well reported in your podcast many times, is not very generous when it comes to our public schools. I'm very upset that we didn't fair fund the fair school funding plan. Uh. Based on current data and inflation, inflationary numbers that we have, we used old numbers. And so if I had my druthers, I would have put a lot of money in this bill. And I know there are a lot of people that aren't happy about that, but you know, you need to understand what we're dealing with here at the State House. Again, with, you know, there's, there are folks that are not very friendly to public schools. Katie Olmsted 10:25 That is shocking news to me. I had no idea. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 10:27 Not shocking to anybody listening to the podcast, no doubt. But so, so we thought we would start with permission, permissive language. In other words, department of education, workforce, school districts and colleges, universities can decide to do these things on their own, with the with the hope that next General Assembly representative Manning and I will be able to work with our colleagues to to put some money into these programs. You know, there are many states in the union, Kentucky, Michigan, Colorado, Oklahoma, Maryland, New Jersey and others that do provide stipends and very generous stipends, I might add to student teachers and, and so we have both committed to one another. I'm a Democrat, she's a Republican. So this is a bipartisan effort, which is how you get things done at the State House, and as it should be. But we've committed to working together with our colleagues to get some money put into the program's next, next General Assembly. Katie Olmsted 11:28 But step one is making it even possible. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 11:31 Yes. Katie Olmsted 11:31 For these things to happen. Because right now that's not in the law. Right now, the districts couldn't do that, even if they had infinite money. There's just not the ability to do that. Is that right? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 11:39 Yeah, so it's the law is very ambiguous. So this just clears up that ambiguity in the Ohio Revised Code, which is our state laws. Speaker 1 11:48 And you mentioned all of those other states that already have these stipends. What difference does that make for those states and their ability to bring in bright, excited professionals to to be in our classrooms, versus what we're seeing here in Ohio, with people maybe not entering that career field? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 12:06 Yeah, that's a that's a very good question, and the answer I'm going to give you is one that I explain to my colleagues who might be on the fence on our bill. You know, I remember when I was looking for my teaching job after I was done student teaching, back in the early 90s, and there were a lot of folks in my shoes that were going to other states, because Ohio had a lot of folks with teaching, teaching licenses, teaching certificates, as they were called back then. And you'd apply for a job, and there would literally be, like 400 people that would be applying for the same job. Well, we know that is not the case anymore. We have a teacher shortage, and it's only going to get worse. I think our bill will go a long way in attracting the best and the brightest to to the this best career of all. But if we don't do something to your point, they're going to go to Kentucky, they're going to go to Michigan. They're going to go to these other states that are providing these, you know, like I said, in some cases, very generous financial incentives to go to their colleges of education, to be educated. They're going to student teach in those districts. And, you know, most people end up teaching in the district where they student taught, or pretty close by, and we're going to lose those kids. And, you know, being a father of two, you know, my biggest fear is my kids leaving for another state. I want to have grandkids someday, and I want, I want to be able to spend lots of time with my grandkids. And so if we want to, if we want to attract and retain the best and the brightest to these careers and address the teacher shortage. This bill is a excellent investment in our aspiring educators. Katie Olmsted 13:47 I'm sold. I'd vote for it. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 13:49 Thank you. I think a reasonable person would. Speaker 1 13:51 I think a reasonable person really would. And unfortunately, sometimes we don't have very reasonable discussions. And I feel like that's probably something that you face with what's happening House Education Committee, lots of good things happening and lots of challenges happening. And as the ranking member, you are your fingers on the pulse of all of it. What can you tell me about some of the other things we're looking at right now? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 14:15 Well, let me, let me just elaborate a little something that you said. And you know, I taught American government to about 8000 young people in my career, and I taught, and I taught every one of them how a bill becomes a law, but you don't really understand some of the some of the things that go on that aren't the textbooks, let's put it that way, and the other resources that use in your classroom. So, you know, obviously politics plays a role. It's an election year, and unfortunately, you know there are folks that like to play games. You know that, you know you're a Democrat, you know she's a Republican, and you know certain bills move and other bills don't move. And you know, so I have no evidence that that's what's going on, but that's what's going on in some cases. So we're hoping that that doesn't cause this bill to have any kerfuffles, but, but, you know, come, it should come as no surprise to folks out there that sometimes political games can be played. Speaker 1 15:10 One of those political games is introducing bills that are headlines more than actual good policy, because then you can run on it. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 15:18 Yeah. Katie Olmsted 15:19 Obviously that is not what's happening here. This is very good policy, House Bill 523. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 15:23 Thank you. Katie Olmsted 15:24 But you must see some that are just like, wow, that you're you're not thinking about the people of Ohio when you are putting that Bill forth. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 15:30 Yeah. And I'm really glad that you said that, because, you know, I have been really frustrated since joining the General Assembly that you know, when we're an education committee, everything we talk about every, every bill that's introduced should be about, how can we do better by Ohio's children? And, you know, how can we help them better socio, socio-emotionally? How can we make them better academically? How can we make them better? You know, in every way possible, but yet, you know, we see bills where we're talking about putting religion back in our schools. We have bills where we talk about abortion and and these other red meat issues that have nothing to do with, at the end of the day, with making kids better and helping them reach their potential. And that's my biggest frustration. Now, that being said, we we do have a lot of really good bills. And we've got some bills that I would say are okay, but, but at least, you know, the we have bills where, even though I might disagree with it, I think my colleague who introduced it still has good intentions. You know they're still want to see kids get better. We just have a different way of looking at that, particularly those of us that are former educator legislators, because we've been there, we've done that. We know it works. We know it doesn't work, which is why I would add this, if there are educators out there who might want to possibly run for the General Assembly. We need as many teachers here as possible. So, you know, when I was in the classroom, I always tell people I used to feel like Bob Denver, who was Gilligan on Gilligan's Island. You know, he was, he Bob, Bob Denver could never get another role outside of Gilligan's Island, because everybody, everybody that saw him, saw him as Gilligan. Katie Olmsted 17:21 Yeah. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 17:21 So he was typecast, and that's how I kind of felt as a teacher, like I'm a teacher. I'm always going to be a teacher. All I can do is teach. But what I've realized since I became a member of the General Assembly is that we are the leaders of our communities. Katie Olmsted 17:35 Yes. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 17:35 I want every teacher listening to this, and I mean this very compassionately and very, very forcefully, we are the leaders of the community, and don't ever sell yourself short. Use the power you have in your community to to to advocate for those children, to advocate for those families, to advocate for for public education. And think about, consider running for school board. You can't serve on the school board in the district where you teach, but if you live in another community, you can, you can serve on that school board. Think about running for city council. I did that for 19 years while I was a teacher, and I may have been the only teacher that ever served on Parma City Council. I think I was, and that's just a great perspective to have in a local government. Think about running for your trustees, for your township. If you live in a township or run for the state house. We need more voices here from public education, run for Congress. You know? I mean, there are many politicians who have run for president or run for congress that had no political experience at all or very little. So, you know, teachers could be CEOs of major corporations. We've got so many transferable skills, and I could list 100 or more of them that make us qualified to do these jobs. Speaker 1 18:57 And I think what you touched on right there about how important it is that teachers do use their voice and their power. It ties perfectly in with what is in your guest column that is in the newest issue of Ohio Schools. It's why our union matters more than ever. Tell me a little bit about what's in that, what what made you want to write that, and what's your message? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 19:21 Well, you know, my message is, toward the end of my career, when I was still in the classroom, I would have young teachers that would come to me with these letters that we would get in the mail encourage encouraging us to give our families a $500 bonus for Christmas by quitting our union. These came out after the Janis decision, and, and so they come to me and say, you know, Sean, what's this all about? You know, maybe I should consider quitting my union. And, and I would explain to them, first off, I would ask them a question. I would say, Well, who do you think sent you that letter? Do you think they really care about you? They don't even know you or do they have some ulterior motive? You know, notice that there's no name on there. It's some you know, organization that when you google it, there's really no information out there at all. It's all made up and, and I would explain to them, look, the reason why you have the salary that you have, the reason why you have a benefits package that allows your you and your spouse and your children to see the doctor. And the reason why you're going to be able to retire with a quality of life that you deserve is because there were many teachers before we were even born that fought for every comma in that contract, and if you want to lose all those benefits, then, then quit your union. But if you, if you depend on that, and you feel you deserve what you're paid and those benefits, then I think you know what the answer is. And you know we never lost one member in our bargaining unit because of those letters that were sent to us, which I'm very proud to say. Speaker 1 21:08 And you bring up such a good point, cui bono, as they say, who benefits when you quit your union? And I don't think we do enough talking about how it's not about you and your pocketbook, that's about somebody else's power. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 21:13 That's right. Katie Olmsted 21:18 If, if they can take your power away, they can call all the shots. And is that the Ohio we want to live in? Is that the Ohio where we have the great public schools our students deserve? Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 21:35 I, we all know that's a rhetorical question. Katie Olmsted 21:37 Right. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 21:38 Right? You know, I always say, you get what you pay for, right? And and again, you know, as teachers, we've had to fight. We need to continue to fight for the students that we care about, for for public education in general, and but we also deserve a good benefits package. You know, again, going back to student teachers, when you're not paid, you know you're you're stressed. If you're not paid well as a teacher, you're going to be stressed, and. Katie Olmsted 22:09 Or you're going to leave. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 22:10 Or you're going to leave the profession, like many have, right? So again, if we want to retain and attract the best and the brightest, then we've got to pay our aspiring educators, and we have to have a strong contract in every single school in the state of Ohio. Speaker 1 22:26 And we have to have friends like you in the state house who understand these issues, who fight for our public schools and for our public school educators, and who stand together with the union, because you understand that's what gives Educators their voice. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 22:41 Thank you very much. It's an honor to be a voice for my fellow educators. I want everybody listening, knowing that, you know, I just like every one of us that's listening. We got into public service because we care about children, we care about people, and I carry that same mindset to the State House. I'm not a calculating politician, like, you know, like some are. Katie Olmsted 23:04 You actually were voted the nicest Ohio lawmaker. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 23:07 My wife might disagree with that, but Katie Olmsted 23:10 I voted for you. That's the one vote I get, I guess. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 23:13 Thank you. That was it was an honor, but I will continue to fight and be a voice for for my profession and for my colleagues. As I always say, once a teacher, always a teacher, you can take the teacher out of the classroom. You can't take the classroom out of the teacher. And I encourage everybody listening, come on down. One of my frustrations is how empty our our committee is every week. Now, part of that is because we meet at 2:15 on a Tuesday. Katie Olmsted 23:41 Right. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 23:42 Which is not very conducive to a teacher. But if you can find a way to come down and testify or just come and observe, it's so important that we're in the room where it happens, as you said before, because if you don't have a seat at the table, you're going to get the scraps. Speaker 1 23:57 Absolutely. Rep Brennan, thank you so so much for coming in and sitting down at this table with us. And I'm sure I will have you back on as your bill moves forward 523, because I'd love to talk to you when it gets past the finish line. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 24:10 Thank you, Katie, and thanks for the great job that you do for public education and for my union, the Ohio Education Association. You are phenomenal at what you do. And I just wanted to let you know I appreciate you very much. Katie Olmsted 24:11 Thank you. Rep. Sean Patrick Brennan 24:12 Of course. Speaker 1 24:13 Our sincere thanks again to Representative Brennan for joining us for this episode. As mentioned, we will be watching closely as House Bill 523 makes its way through the State House, and your voice could make a big difference in that fight. There's a link in the show notes for this episode for a page where you can share your story about student teaching, past or present to help educate lawmakers about why financial supports are needed to make the path more accessible. And next week on the podcast, we're talking about another important tool to make college and career path success accessible, student loans. There have been so many changes to student loans over the last year, it's really hard to even keep track of what anyone needs to be doing right now, our friend from NEA member benefits Guy Kendall-Freas will join us to get us all back on the right track with that. Make sure you join us for that and the other important conversations we're having this season about the issues that shape the education landscape in our state, because in Ohio, public education matters. Transcribed by https://otter.ai