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PEZ: Candy or Anti-smoking Aid? · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
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  Speaker 1: for tuning in. Big thanks to our super producer, mister
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Max Williams.
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  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it right this time, guys, Urah.
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  Speaker 1: This is one for the peasants and the pezz Philosophers.
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  Speaker 2: Ben, you want to sign my Urah?
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  Speaker 3: Actually, can I jump in here? I actually have a
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  Speaker 3: story for Noel. You know, I always listened to it
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: afterwards because you have to edit it. So I thought
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  Speaker 3: up a nomadic device for you in case you ever
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  Speaker 3: need to figure out. So it's like, uh, ooh, baby, baby,
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: it's the wild World.
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  Speaker 2: It says it's ooh uh Okay, I don't remember that.
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  Speaker 2: I'll probably never say it again now that I've finally
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  Speaker 2: closed the loop on that. But yeah, we are not
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  Speaker 2: talking about military words of motivation today. We're talking about
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  Speaker 2: something else entirely.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, going back to the puns peasants philosophers, the we
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  Speaker 1: talked about some divisive candies quite recently, and we also
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  Speaker 1: arrived at a conversation about an iconic thing pez And
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  Speaker 1: I'm not sure you guys whether the rest of the
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  Speaker 1: world knows what PEZ is. I've traveled pretty widely and
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  Speaker 1: I don't see Pez all the time. But maybe it's
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  Speaker 1: like a sleeper hit candy, you know, maybe it's just
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  Speaker 1: somewhere in the aisle.
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  Speaker 2: I guess I feel like people maybe know the dispenser
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  Speaker 2: is more than they know the candy, and they're like,
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  Speaker 2: what even is that? For me, certainly the dispensers hold
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  Speaker 2: a lot more interest than the candy itself, as I
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  Speaker 2: find the candy to be of that same echelon of
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  Speaker 2: trash candy as like Neco wafers and Smarties.
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  Speaker 1: So here's the thing, and this is very interesting. This
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  Speaker 1: is part of our show today. PEZ has an origin
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  Speaker 1: story that may surprise a lot of people. It may
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  Speaker 1: indeed be ridiculous history. We're going to go to Teresa mckemmer,
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  Speaker 1: writing for Smithsonian Magazine pretty often. Here. Let's give you
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  Speaker 1: one quote, folks. Teresa says, one product hits a perfect harmony,
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  Speaker 1: the Pez dispenser, part character, part candy, and all collectible.
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  Speaker 1: The trinket has delighted kids and collectors around the world
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  Speaker 1: for decades, and yet when Austria and confectioner Eduard Hass,
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  Speaker 1: the third invented pez. He set out to corner an
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  Speaker 1: entirely different marketing. Can I get some dramatic music?
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  Speaker 2: That's an entirely different market to be sure? So first
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  Speaker 2: let's introduce us to our main character, the inventor of PEZ,
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  Speaker 2: as you said, Ben Eduard Haas the Third, of course,
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  Speaker 2: indeed his bio from MIT. They don't write bios for
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  Speaker 2: just anyone. He was born near Vienna, Austria, in eighteen
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  Speaker 2: ninety seven and was part of a very enterprising family.
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  Speaker 2: His grandfather, Edward Haas the First, was an actual facts
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  Speaker 2: doctor and had created a new type of baking powder
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  Speaker 2: that was used to make cakes lighter and arier. His son,
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  Speaker 2: Edward Haas the Second, briefly attended medical school, but instead
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  Speaker 2: of going into the medical field, he ran a wholesale
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  Speaker 2: grocery business. Enter Edward the Third, who tries his hand
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  Speaker 2: in mixing up a batch of this baking powder. Because
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  Speaker 2: I guess it didn't really take off. It was just
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  Speaker 2: more of like a pet project of Edward the second
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  Speaker 2: and the hopes that he could sell it as part
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  Speaker 2: of the wholesale grocery operation. He did succeed in his attempts,
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  Speaker 2: which gave him the needed boost of confidence to go
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  Speaker 2: into the confectionery business and to jump in here real quick.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think this source had it in them, but
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  Speaker 3: I think it was different source I was reading. I
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  Speaker 3: think he was like sixteen when he was doing this,
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  Speaker 3: like really young enterprising chap exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, back in the late eighteen hundred's,
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  Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, sixteen is essentially thirty five years old, right,
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  Speaker 1: that's a quick inflation calculation.
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  Speaker 2: He's a regular Timothy Chame portraying young Willy Wonka.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's tough to get into acting, you know, and
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  Speaker 1: we wish Tim the best.
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  Speaker 2: By Jade, I like young Tim. I'm going to see
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  Speaker 2: him in June too, this evening.
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  Speaker 1: So by the nineteen twenties, we've got this family baking
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  Speaker 1: business right from Austria, and our buddy, Eh the third
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  Speaker 1: takes over managing the company when he turns eighteen, and
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  Speaker 1: he does one of the coolest things you could do
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  Speaker 1: at the time. Takes out some ads in the local newspaper,
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  Speaker 1: which is like posted on social media, and they say.
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  Speaker 2: Look at this.
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  Speaker 1: Are you worried about having to measure all your cake mix?
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  Speaker 1: Forget about it. We've got pre measured cake mix just
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  Speaker 1: for you, and I love that you point out the
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  Speaker 1: mit bio.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, obviously, pre measured cake mix
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  Speaker 2: is a huge business today, you know, with things like
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  Speaker 2: Betty Crocker, boxed cake, you know, angels, all of that stuff.
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  Speaker 2: So maybe he seemed early to the parties here, because
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  Speaker 2: I guess it wasn't that necessarily that concept that took off,
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  Speaker 2: but something that it led to.
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  Speaker 1: And before we get to that cool story about Betty
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  Speaker 1: Crocker and shelf Stable cake mix in particular, they didn't
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  Speaker 1: need to add an egg. If you buy it now,
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  Speaker 1: you don't need to have an egg. It was entirely
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  Speaker 1: a piece of propaganda, meant to make it feel like
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  Speaker 1: you were cooking because you cracked an egg and put
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  Speaker 1: it into the thing. This is a true story, you
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  Speaker 1: believe you You're right, absolutely, no, that has started with
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  Speaker 1: cake mix, just like Drake started into grassy but he
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  Speaker 1: had so much further to go in.
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  Speaker 2: The mid nineteen twenty to the top.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And he started from the bottom of
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  Speaker 1: the cake pand a long way to the top. In
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  Speaker 1: the mid nineteen twenties, Hass got peppermint oil from a
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  Speaker 1: local chemist and he said, I'm going to make a
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  Speaker 1: peppermint candy, and the way he pitched it in the
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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History Universe was something like, not just regular peppermint candy.
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  Speaker 1: It's elevated, it's sophisticated, it's strong and cold pressed.
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  Speaker 2: I'd never heard that term as associated with this kind
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  Speaker 2: of thing. I guess I just think of that as coffee.
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  Speaker 2: But I guess it really is just a particular process
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  Speaker 2: of distilling something into something else. I guess it's not
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  Speaker 2: just a way of making iced coffee. You can do
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  Speaker 2: it with other things to kind of like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: steep something.
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  Speaker 1: I'm picturing I'm picturing a bunch of people sitting around
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  Speaker 1: and going.
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  Speaker 2: Wal we press our pepper mint's hot and he says,
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  Speaker 2: hear me out.
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  Speaker 1: We're gonna put a lot of sugar in these, and
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  Speaker 1: we're gonna make them tiny tablets, lozenges, pills, and we're
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  Speaker 1: going to also be very mindful about the shape. They're
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  Speaker 1: gonna be a little rounded, rectangular bricks. That way we
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  Speaker 1: could wrap them more easily.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: We talked about this in our Devisive Candy series. The
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  Speaker 1: innovation of individual packaging or machine wrapping is huge for
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  Speaker 1: the game.
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  Speaker 2: And also how a lot of those folks that were
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  Speaker 2: kind of early to market were using pre existing War
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  Speaker 2: era wartime type machines or you know, things that were
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  Speaker 2: already used in pharmaceutical manufacturing to press these tablets. That's
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  Speaker 2: why they look so pill like. But he did just
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  Speaker 2: that and dubbed it PEZ, which is short for a
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  Speaker 2: German word that means peppermin that I'm going to give
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  Speaker 2: a go to. I believe it's fer minz Minza. Well done.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta get weird with the RS on that one.
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  Speaker 1: The thing is, this guy sends out sort of prototypes,
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  Speaker 1: right demo versions of this to his friends, to his
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  Speaker 1: co workers, and they all love it. They love it
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  Speaker 1: so much that he starts making little packages for it,
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  Speaker 1: little tits, and this this leads to the creation of
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  Speaker 1: food manufacturing corporations Pez Candies, and locally they're a hit.
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  Speaker 1: You know, people are talking to each other in suburbs
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  Speaker 1: of Austria and they're like, you gotta go to Vienna
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  Speaker 1: and when you go, you gotta get the good candy.
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  Speaker 1: What's the good candy? And they're like, well, you know
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  Speaker 1: how we say the resiments. He says, well, just call
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  Speaker 1: him PEZ. You want to be cool, you want to
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  Speaker 1: be a local. And so Hawes, to his credit, knows
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  Speaker 1: he has a smart thing. He knows he's got lightning
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  Speaker 1: in a jar here. So he says, how can I
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  Speaker 1: get pez outside of Austria.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's put this lightning in a ten baby, because
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  Speaker 2: ten can be repurposed, you know, like it was still
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  Speaker 2: to this day, alzoid tins are used for guitar picks
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  Speaker 2: and little trink buttons or whatever, sewing kits, things like that.
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  Speaker 2: It's nice to have an extra thing that retains your
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  Speaker 2: branding and then is used for other purposes. So he
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  Speaker 2: creates these. It's very you know, esthetically pleasing little pocket
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  Speaker 2: tins for this candy, and it does gangbusters business at
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  Speaker 2: least in regionally, locally, like you said, hosp wanted more.
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  Speaker 2: You wanted to take it wide. Oh the whole time.
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  Speaker 1: By the way, he's handied these things to his friends, right,
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  Speaker 1: he's like waving his hands and performatively coughing because they
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  Speaker 1: all smoke.
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  Speaker 2: Ah, yes, of course, I mean the Germans. The Germans
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  Speaker 2: loved their cigarettesa as did you know Europeans and Americans.
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  Speaker 2: This was a golden dime for cigarettes. But I believe
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  Speaker 2: to your point been there was enough intel creeping in
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  Speaker 2: data that maybe this wasn't the best thing to do.
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  Speaker 2: And so there was almost like a new ish market
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  Speaker 2: opening up for anti smoking, for quitting smoking cessation. Right.
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  Speaker 2: We didn't have nicotine lozenges or patches, but mints early.
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  Speaker 2: That was an early form of kind of that oral
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  Speaker 2: fixation sort of substitute.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and in the early days, a lot of the
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  Speaker 1: advertisements concerned breath, like fresh breath smelling better, and you
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  Speaker 1: could see in some of the ad marketing quotes like
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  Speaker 1: no smoking passing allowed, peasy.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: They were on to something, and the idea was that
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  Speaker 1: they could help people, as you said, quit smoking tobacco.
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  Speaker 1: I imagine it was mainly tobacco. And they're coming in
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  Speaker 1: at a very weird time socially, because this is post
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  Speaker 1: World War two. Smoking is very very in it's very
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  Speaker 1: on vogue at this point because everybody's a little bit
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  Speaker 1: fatalistic in Europe, just being honest, and so this guy
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  Speaker 1: is still thinking of these things as just branded peppermints,
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  Speaker 1: and he says, you know, if you're trying to quit,
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  Speaker 1: you might have some sort of oral fixation or some
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  Speaker 1: need to busy yourself with your hands. So he says,
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  Speaker 1: let's give them something else to put in their mouths
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  Speaker 1: in place of a tobacco cigarette, and this is how
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  Speaker 1: we're going to target smokers. There's a bit of Berneze
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  Speaker 1: level calculation here.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, because it's also I believe it stemmed from
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  Speaker 2: the availability of the peppermint oil and also the reputation
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  Speaker 2: that it had as being a bit more of a
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  Speaker 2: medicinal kind of thing because it was only really available
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  Speaker 2: in pharmacies. But it's my understanding the has for this
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  Speaker 2: experiment either like happened into a connect for some peppermint
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  Speaker 2: oil or something, you know, and then was like, let's
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  Speaker 2: make let's make this peppermint oil into peppermint oil and
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  Speaker 2: aid or little tablets that we can sell for the
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  Speaker 2: purposes of smoking cessation. So you have the birth of
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  Speaker 2: the very first flavor of PEZ.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And going back to the cold pressing, want to give
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  Speaker 1: a very important shout out to Sean Peterson, who is
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  Speaker 1: the company historian PEZ Candy Incorporated. Sean points out that
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  Speaker 1: there is a logic, a method to the madness of
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  Speaker 1: cold pressing. To your point, peppermint oil was tricky for
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  Speaker 1: most industrial applications because it evaporated in heat. Cold pressing
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  Speaker 1: changes this. You put the sugar and the various flavoring together,
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  Speaker 1: you literally.
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  Speaker 2: Just smash it.
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  Speaker 1: You just smash that stuff together until it becomes cohesive.
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  Speaker 1: And originally they didn't have the dispensers. They just had
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  Speaker 1: like we're saying, the altoids level metal tins where they
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  Speaker 1: were wrapped in foil. But this was a huge technological
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  Speaker 1: breakthrough for the Peppermint game.
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  Speaker 2: Interesting, so cold pressing really is just kind of like
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  Speaker 2: suspending something in a solution and just letting it kind
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  Speaker 2: of do its thing.
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  Speaker 1: In the case of pez they just spushed it together.
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  Speaker 1: I cannot speak with any sort of authority about cold
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  Speaker 1: press coffee.
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  Speaker 2: It may well just be a mismatching of terms, and
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  Speaker 2: the cold pressing that I'm familiar with for like coffee
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  Speaker 2: would be a different process. But cold press coffee, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I think it's literally just taking a you know, like
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  Speaker 2: you know, like macerrating coffee grounds in cold water and
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  Speaker 2: then putting it in the fridge and letting it sit
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  Speaker 2: in there. Like I have like a cold press kit
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  Speaker 2: that's literally just like a like a what do you
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  Speaker 2: call it? Like a kind of a narrow carafe, and
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  Speaker 2: then it has this sort of agitator stick that you know,
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  Speaker 2: fits through the top, and you literally just mix it
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  Speaker 2: a lot like you would with a French press, which
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  Speaker 2: you do obviously hot, but instead of it being with
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  Speaker 2: hot water, it's with cold water, and then you just
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  Speaker 2: let it sit in the fridge and then the poor
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: spout on the carath filters out the coffee grounds. You
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  Speaker 2: essentially just get like cold water that's been steeped in
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  Speaker 2: coffee grounds, but it doesn't require heat. Hmm. Okay, was
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  Speaker 2: that a thing you think that Haas was aware of?
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  Speaker 2: Or I think it might I don't know, like I'm wondering.
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  Speaker 2: It's maybe a conversation for another time, but the history
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  Speaker 2: of cold pressing or if these things are indeed related,
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  Speaker 2: But it does feel like they might well be, because
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  Speaker 2: I think of cold press coffee is a little bit
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: more of a modern thing. But a lot of times
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  Speaker 2: things that sort of catch, you know, the the zeitgeist,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: become in vogue often are things that are old that
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: just haven't really been and had a resurgent moment. You know.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: My favorite example of that is the UH is the
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: resurgence of handmade in your favorite local products. Originally most
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: human things were indeed hand made, So anyway, be cautious
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: when you go to the grocery store, folks, or your
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  Speaker 1: favorite tobacconist or your favorite candy store. There is a
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  Speaker 1: big psychological question that Haas and his team spend a
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  Speaker 1: lot of time on. They think, well, if we are
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  Speaker 1: replacing smoking cigarettes, shall we not replace everything? Like, we
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  Speaker 1: want to make our new thing as familiar and as
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  Speaker 1: seamless in the world of habit as we can. And
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  Speaker 1: that is why true story. In nineteen forty seven, Haas
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  Speaker 1: and his team designed the pez dispenser on purpose to
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: look like a cigarette lighter.
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  Speaker 2: Holy crap, that's brilliant marketing. So it's like it's almost
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: like a comb switchblade. You know, it's sort of neuters
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: the thing. You know that was like the danger. It
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: takes the danger out. You know, am I going to
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: kill you? Orre am I handsome? Or it could be both.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: You could technically shank somebody in the neck with a
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: calm switchblade. You have to have a lot of forward motion.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: That's very true. It's awesoint. I had no idea about this,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: but it makes perfect sense. It's got that hinge. It
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: reminds me of like those old classy kind of metal,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: more slim cigarette lighters from back in the day. That
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: would have been gold and maybe something you would have
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: gotten for retirement, you know what I mean, like these
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  Speaker 2: very very yeah, very classy. So it would have been
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  Speaker 2: a way of even because hell, guys, lighting a cigarette
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  Speaker 2: is also a fixation of its own kind, you know,
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  Speaker 2: just flicking that thing, getting that reaction, hearing that sound.
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  Speaker 1: The muscle memory, the ritualization. It's kind of like when
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: people worry at rosaries, right, or count the beads. It's
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: a it's like a fidget spinner.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: It's like a total fidget spinner. Holy crap, this is brilliant.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: So they start with it as you know, this very
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: recognizable device. When did they slap Shaggy from Scooby Doo's
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: head on these guys.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Well, that's gonna take a Oh man, I'm ready to
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: get in nineteen. Oh this is fun. This is not
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: get through this fun weird stuff, and it's going to
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: change the way you look at PEZ, who is not
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: an official sponsor of today's program.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: PEZ should sponsor more podcast stuff. I'm just saying, Yeah,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: they'd be great for it, you know? Is it funny though?
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: How Pez is one of those legacy brands It literally
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to advertise. Have you ever seen an ad
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: for Pez ever?
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Also, I got to pitch Pez cast You're welcome.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Well branded content, babe. Oh, Mac's too late sponsors Pez
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Max is like my arm recovered just for this, for this,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and now I'm literally gonna injured it again by slamming
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: my fist down on the desk and rage.
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  Speaker 1: So it's nineteen forty nine and they advertise at the
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: or they start selling these at the Vienna.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Trade Fair and Austrian's Fair type situation practically, yeah, and
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: they call.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: It pocket article dispensing container, super saxy Austrian name.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, I know Austrian Germany are not the same,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: and I do know that. Yeah, they have a similar vibe.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I've been, I've been adherence to the rules, the little bits,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? You know, nonsense, Yes, enjoyment true,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: z Peppa mants is mandatory. Indeed, mandatory enjoyment. I love that.
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  Speaker 1: So they do look like and you can again see
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: early designs. The very first Pez container does not have
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: a Scooby doo. Uh Mascot audit. But it looks like
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: a slim, rectangular cigarette lighter. And they probably based it
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: on two things. The resemblance to an earlier piece of
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: technology and the easiest, most efficacious way to package these
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: peppermint bricks. Right, So they were It's strange.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't know this.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I assumed the old pez dispensers would have been rat
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: of some sort of metal substance, But no, they were plastic.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: That shocked me a little bit, right, I mean, I
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: guess we're talking nineteen forty seven, so I guess I
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: didn't really think of plastic as being as common as
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: it is now. Is that when did plastic really start
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: to find its way into mass you know, mass produced products.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: We're talking about plastic, plastic, modern plastic.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Bake light, wasn't it bake light? Yeah? So is this
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: plast What is this?
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: After the Second World War? According to Plain Products, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: then again during the nineteen sixties and seventies, is like
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: when it really I think started getting.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Very affordable to do things with plastic. I see, okay,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: it was it was before.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: It was definitely before the golden age of plastic.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I thought, so, yeah, that's it. So they were sort
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: of to the to the dance.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Think about it. They're like early adopters. They are too
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: candy what Apple is to cell phones. You know, they're
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: they're very it's very sexy. If you want to be
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: cool in Vienna and abroad, you pull out your PEZ.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And they were originally called pull out.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Your Pez sounds naughty.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: The only guy can judge us, or maybe the creator
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: of PEZ. At first they called these things, uh, you know.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: They they sold the container as like an early adopter,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: look at this kind of flex.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: But they originally commemoratives, like almost like a yeah. It
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: was like a promotional, yes.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Promotional perfect. They originally didn't call it just Pez. They
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: called it Pez drops, and they marketed it as something
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: that you would buy if you were an adult and
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: doing well in life.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: It was aspirational, got it. Yeah. The advertisements also touted
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the health benefits and they showed you know, happy affluent
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: couples making out with the caption deliciously fresh breath. You
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: mentioned another slogan earlier. I believe right, Ben, Yeah.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: No smoking pezzing allowed. Also got you've got the again.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: The parallels with Edward Bernez are amazing here because they
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: also built a street team. They would have they would
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: have free samples, cool looking people out in busy squares
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: or major events. Picture your favorite sports game, there's someone
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: there handing out free samples of Pez they had. They
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: had super attractive people in advertisements who'd be like, are
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you already pezzing? They were called the Pez Girls. They
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: were very famous in their time. I would argue we
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: can also see some parallels with vaping today.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely, they took a took a page out of
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: the old Pez playbook. Right. So this is all of
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: course in Europe early on, and it's not until the
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: early nineteen fifties that the Pez candies start to be
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: available in the United States. But instead of it taking
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: off as some sort of anti smoking aid, seemed like
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: kids were super interested in this new fangled Pez stuff.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we want to give a very special, very important
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: thank you to Haas the third for not making candy cigarettes,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: you know, for going with Pez the tablet over PEZ
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: the cylinder.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Much more clean cut, much more wholesome.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so sales, like you were pointing out, the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: whole sales are not amazing.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Just because there's only one demo. It's like just the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: kids right, Yeah, it's just the kids.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: And at this point, penny candy is still a thing,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: so it's like, why am I going to buy my
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: kid this weird.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Flex, expensive European mint?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Exactly for everybody, uh, for everybody listening along. I want
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: to describe to you, because we are an audio show,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians. Noel, you had the most beautiful furrow
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in your brow. I saw you experiencing that moment where
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: you're like, weird European mints.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I know no shade to weird European mints.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I enjoy them every now and again. You know, at
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the at the Leadle, you get some in the checkout
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: at the Aldi or the Legle. There's some some good
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: ones out there. Like altoids has to be European. Isn't
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: that Swiss or something? It has to be. It's like
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: a legacy euro mint. And and I remember a time
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: where altoids were not as widely available as they are today.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And we're in and of themselves a bit of a flex.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Altoids are like buttered cookies. You know, they're they're better
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: in the they're better because.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: The ten also ready to be surprised, they're from London.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, well still why the Fisherman's friend the grossest?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, I don't This may not be a story
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: the Jedi would like me to tell you. But folks,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: you can listen back through how Stuff works, and should
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: you be an astute history student, you will find most
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: of the old school Stuff podcast had a period where
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: they had to talk about Altoid's, in particular the history,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the science, how they're made, what peppermint is anyway, you know,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: you get in situations, and that's where has found himself
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: because he was like, what they don't like my fancy
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: European anti smoking mints, And then his folks got back
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: to them and he said, well, sir, we apologize. Turns
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: out only chill like the mints in the United States,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and low and behold, they leaned into that demographic.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Huh what else do kids like? Ben uh, fruity flavors,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: cartoon mascots. Perhaps I think you're onto something.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe Anticlaus, Yeah, maybe a Popeye, maybe a cowboy, maybe
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a space trooper of some sort.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Make them tasted not like extremely strong anti smoking emnts,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: would rather like oranges and lemons strawberries. Perhaps I'm telling
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: you vapes. It is totally the vape, dude, it's it is.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: It is entirely that thing that's wild. Only you know,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: we're just peddling sugar here, not necessarily popcorn, long inducing
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: you know, in inhalables. So by nineteen fifty five, away
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: full vape on this and they have they have notable
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: public figures for children branded in the vape, similar to
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: the way that faster people are gonna come after.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, well, vapes weren't a thing at.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: This now it's very and they were not sure.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: They were not peddling something insidious. They were like, let's
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: make this candy. Let's make sure we appeal to the kids, right,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: just like old dirty bastard said about Wu Tang.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And so they get for the children, Yeah, they get
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: the uh, they.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Get the most notable figures for kids in America back
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: in the day we're.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Talking would have required agreements, would have required licensing, right,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and that's when things get really interesting. Sorry, Yeah, what
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: are some of the big names that first rolled out
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: that would have been of the era, Well, Mickey Mouse obviously,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: what else. We've got Bozo the Clown, who was massive
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: both in stature and shoe size and also popularity, and
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: then of course Casper the Friendly Ghost. So those were
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: some of the earliest and I mean again, I don't
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: have the specifics in front of me, but those would
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: have had to have been marketing agreements between the owners
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: of that intellectual property and company. I would imagine maybe
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: that law was less buttoned up as it is today,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: and at first they were like, oh, they're gonna love
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: to be associated with this, but I would imagine they
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: would have had to at least talk to those, you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: whoever owned the rights to those characters, because certainly that's
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: the direction that it went in.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding, Uh, stay tuned for the ridiculous history
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Pez dispensers we're going to do. We're not talking. Well,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: maybe you know it's good to dream the year two, Yeah,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the Dare two. Uh. The weird thing about this is
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: they yet again hit on this amazing moment in the
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: zeitgeist society and PEZ becomes a pop culture icon. Everybody's
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: got to have it for several decades. It's kind of
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: like when you see politicians put a little selfie on
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: social media and they've got a tidy bottle of hot
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: sauce there you go.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I keep that thang on me. No stop it, Hillary Clinton,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: You're embarrassing yourself. Go home. Well it's like.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: That, but you know, for the world with PEZ, for
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the Western world, especially in nineteen seventy three, Pez builds
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: a candy factory and warehouse. This is a Wonka moment
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: you were talking about earlier. They build it in Connecticut,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: in Orange, Connecticut, and it's entirely to supply the Western
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: world with Pez. Or excuse me, it's entirely to supply
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: the United States with PEZ. And now that factory is
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: still around, they make all the Pez. They make so
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: much Pez.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: You guys, apparently they have the large the world's largest
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: PEZ dispenser, because of course they do. It was going
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: to exist. It was going to exist there. Man, they're
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: a veritable Sackler family of candy distribution. Well they're a
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: little better than Sacklers. I know. I can't. It's Gallows
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: humor because it's just so sad. Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we do Gallows humor because in these economic times.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: It's tough to afford tears. Yeah.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: So this factory is amazing though. It is a study
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and efficacy. Right now, they make about twelve million tablets.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: They call them a little pet bites.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Sorry, that's what Maybe that's what invoked the big pharma
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: thing for me. The twelve million tablets today. You know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: they got the medicinal background. But no, maybe tell us
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: a little bit more about what happens to our buddy
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: haas he did. Yeah he overdosed on pens. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, No,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: I'm joking. That didn't happen. He did, though, pass away
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty six, and he did, of course leave
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: behind a massive enterprise of confectionery sweeties. Pez Candy Incorporated
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: actually took you know, became the going concern. It was
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: originally I believe has was his name was in the
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: name of the company.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And the innovations to the dispensers continued after his death.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: You know how like if you look at one now,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you'll see feet at the base boz can the standout
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: levelsay case, yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, you nailed it. And
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: if you are a Pez collector there are a ton
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: of Pez collectors, then you're looking at the feet first,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: the way people look at shoes. You're you're saying, well,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: how can I tell whether this is a vintage Pez?
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Dispenser or me reduction.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Same with matchbox cars. We talked about matchbox cars, I
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: believe in a previous episode. Check that one out there.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a very similarly collectible thing where you
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: can tell what era they came from and looking at
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: like the wheelbarings or whatever it might be. I think
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: most people have at some point in their life owned
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: a Pez dispenser, you know, bought one on a lark
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: at the grocery store. Checkout Max. You'll be proud to
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: know that the I have. It's actually in my kids room,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: a unopened star Trek. The next generation theme set of
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Pez Dispensers, including John Luke Picard as Borg. You guys
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: are nerds. No, yeah, I didn't know yet a name.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: He's in there. The regular JLP is there, and some
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: of the other hits from that you know era of
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: the show, which one is JLP John Luke Picard. Oh,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I took some liberties there to celebrities there.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: So this is true, and you have hit upon quite
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: a potential investment there, Noel, because these Pez dispensers, for
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: the enthusiast thing self from anywhere for a few bucks
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: to thousands of dollars, as you found, Max, one of
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: the most rarefied of pez Dispenser designs is from nineteen
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: sixty one. It sold for twelve thousand, five hundred US
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: dollars in twenty thirteen, so that's still kind of twelve
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars. And then the station like a political like
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: themed promo branding kind of stuff. Yeah, the donkey of
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the which which party?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Is that? Again?
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: I always forget Democrats. They they had the donkey and
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: the elephant.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: And originally there was going to be a turkey as
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the political mascot back at the Dame Ben Franklin Love
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: you wanted that.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: To be the bird the national yeah, instead of the eagle. Yeah.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: But I don't know if it's completely apocryphal, but everyone
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: would called uh Andrew Jackson a jackass that he liked
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: it so much that he changed the Democratic Party's symbol
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: to a donkey.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: That's it is.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: But there's validity to it because he definitely was a jackass. Yeah,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that's true. And also the donkey was a more respected
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: character in political discourse.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: At the donkey was in the Bible. Man. He ferried U,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Jesus and Mary to whatever the wise men I don't
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: remember the story.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Alex Jones is zading donkeys these days, speaking of speaking
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of biblical terms for donkeys. So oh yeah, so uh
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: we can. We can go back and forth and explore
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: so many ins and outs. I think you hit on it, guys.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: The branding is what really set pass apart. The candy
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: itself remained relatively consistent. It was the dispensers that changed.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I think there have to be some people out there
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: that genuinely enjoy Pez for the flavor. But I like
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I like it. I just don't like powdery Jockey candy.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: It's mostly nostalgia, yeah, Chris, but my parents would always
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: get Alex and I Pez Spencer's for Christmas.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Boy is it ever?
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Can I talk about one cool thing I found that
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Pez has done in the past for jury So they
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: have done two seperate one and they did one for
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, and they did one for uh,
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Prince William and Dutchess Kate, which it was they created
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: like these Pez Spencer Limited run put up the auction
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: and all proceeds when one time one was for Make
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: a Wish Foundation, the other one was for Starlight Children's Foundation.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: So basically like, hey, we know you. I want to
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: collect it, help us help you. You spend a bunch
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: of money, we'll give it the charity.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: So good. I support that.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I support uh. I support that probo or branding or merchandising,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: whatever we want to call it, for charitable causes. And
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: I'm very, very interested in imagining what Jonathan Strickland aka
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the Quister pest dispenser looks like.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: It would look a lot like the Jean Luke Picard
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: in my Star Wars set.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Is the Jean Luke Pericard different or JPL as you say,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: is that different from the locutest? Oh?
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah? Cutis? Is he has the Yeah? So what
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, there's that guy where he's white and he's
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: got the gear and the eye thingy.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: No, that would be cool though, shine, No, it's a
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: pest dispenser, you know what I say that not knowing
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: enough about you know, uh, are there some really mega
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: bespoke pest dispensers that have moving parts that like like?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Of course, I thought maybe we could up today's episode
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: by naming a few other pretty pricey pez dispensers that
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: have sold throughout the years, starting with of course the
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: political Donkey, as we mentioned, that's the number one, so
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: maybe we spoiled that one a little bit. But in
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifties, clear space gun Pez Dispenser also sold in
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: a year that is unknown for eleven thousand, two hundred
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: and eleven dollars. And then the Prince Harry and Megan
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Markle one you mentioned was also a pretty pricey collector's item,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: although I don't imagine that money would go towards the
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: make a Wish thing. It was just the initial sales, right.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's the that's the auction it is.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: That was the auction, Okay, So that was the reason
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: that was so inflated was because it was specifically for
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: like a once one, one of a kind kind of situation.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: I got it, And we want to end with a
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: PSA fellow ridiculous historians Pez enthusiast as well. If you're
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: buying a cap in hook Pez dispenser, it needs to
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: have the soft head.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, what does that mean? I'm glad you asked
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: picturing like as a plushy or something like that. I
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: don't know how that would work.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: It means it means that they were for a time
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine. During the late nineteen seventies, if
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: we're being honest, for a couple of years, they were
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: cheaper to produce than the typical plastic model, so there
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: were a softer petroleum substance. But then in nineteen seventy nine,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: same year, the oil crisis hits and it becomes very
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: expensive to make the soft head Captain hook. So if
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: you were ever if you ever find yourself in a
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: PEZ convention and you want to know who knows their business,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: look for the person who was just individually squeezing Captain
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: hook Pez dispenser as avocados. Yeah, like avocado is just
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: like produce.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I can't imagine these wouldn't be behind glass though,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't be letting you squeeze them. But maybe maybe
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: with gloves on. You know, you could if you did
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: happen to find one from your squeezings. You couldn't at
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: about a grand from one of those.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Uh yes, US dollars even today. I also want to
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: mention you can get a for anybody looking for Halloween ideas.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: You could get a Pez container costume, and I think
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: you can customize it.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we mentioned this off air, But I
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: mean it is a little bit macab the way the
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: candies are essentially, you know, dispensed out of the neck
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: hole of the head. It's you know, the thing goes
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: all the way back at a very severe disturbing angle,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: and then a weird little rectangle of white candy pops out.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Aren't there somewhere they've like sculpted the lower jon office.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it's like looks like a hinged mouth, like
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: a yeah, it's like a mouth, yeah, a million percent.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: It's weird, but it's one of those things that we
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: just accept because it's just been It's another example that
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: we run into all the time with history. Now this
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: is state of the obvious of like people being first
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: to market with something. We just grow to accept it,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: even if it's kind of weird. So where do we land?
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Are we all fans of pez I like to to
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Spenser's I think it's cool. Yeah, American kitch, you know, yeah, yeah,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: even though it's not Americana from Vienna. Yeah, Americana via Vienna. Yeah,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: there we go. That's fine.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Apples are from Kazakhstan, and we say as American as
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: apple pie.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: So rits are probably from somewhere in the levant you.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Know there we go uh with that, We want to
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: give a big, big shout out to our super producer
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: mister Max Williams or research associate mister Max Williams, and
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: our resident Pez model, perhaps non consentually, Jonathan Strickland aka
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the Quist.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: No, he would be so on board, he would love it.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, now that I think about it, I
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: want to say that at some point he either had
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: made or someone had made a custom bobblehead of Jonathan Strickland.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: It was him, wizard. Yeah, it sounds about right. It
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: sounds like something he would do. Huge thanks to Chris
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Frasciotis Ves Jeck Coates here in spirit, Alex Williams, brother
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: of Max, who composed this slam and jam in theme
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: tune that you're hearing right now, big.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Big thanks to aj Bahama's Jacobs. Check out his show
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: The Puzzler. We got a fellow Ben. He's a real
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: expert on Badasses of the Week. He'll be joining us
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: soon and of course grateful thanks to Megacube.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: Indeed, we'll see you next time, folks.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.