Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Omnibus! Full Circle featuring the glorious Si Hart

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Omnibus! Full Circle featuring the glorious Si Hart · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Simon, what you've got to do in this recording is keep
• 0:04
  absolutely quiet. We are recording this story on
• 0:07
  cassettes, so do not speak all the way through.
• 0:12
  You've got to be quiet. A voice.
• 0:13
  The microphone will pick you up. But but but.
• 0:17
  No absolute quiet apart from me. Who can sing in the theme?
• 0:23
  Hello, welcome back to our hamster with a blunt penknife.
• 0:26
  The Doctor Who Commentary Podcast now.
• 0:29
  I think. If we were doing a bit of
• 0:30
  therapy there. Oh yeah.
• 0:33
  Maybe if you're a member of my family from 1981, this will
• 0:39
  bring back lots of memories for you.
• 0:40
  Unfortunately for the rest of you, that means nothing at all.
• 0:44
  So you made you held all your family hostage to be quiet
• 0:48
  throughout all of Doctor Who so you could take the soundtrack.
• 0:51
  Well, basically, no. My dad did my dad, So it'd be my
• 0:55
  birthday, my 6th birthday, which was a Seminole birthday in lots
• 0:58
  of ways, because I've got my first Target books.
• 1:00
  I've got my first Doctor Who cassette, which was Genesis and
• 1:03
  the Daleks, and I got a tape recorder as my main birthday
• 1:07
  present so I could have that in my room and listen to music and
• 1:09
  stuff. And so Dad had bought me some
• 1:12
  cassettes as well, and so he had the brilliant idea of when
• 1:17
  Doctor Who was being repeated in the summer of 1981.
• 1:20
  Big clue there for anyone paying attention about what story we'll
• 1:23
  be doing, he said. Well, we could record this story
• 1:28
  onto cassette and you could listen to it again.
• 1:30
  What a brilliant idea. No other Doctor Who fan had ever
• 1:33
  thought of that idea. Not.
• 1:35
  At all. Did you do that?
• 1:36
  Use that fabulous electric tape to label your cassettes.
• 1:41
  No, I didn't have one of those. No, this one was handwritten by
• 1:44
  my mum who had the best handwriting and so where I
• 1:48
  recorded all of Doctor Who and Full Circle onto cassette.
• 1:53
  Full circle, you say? Yes.
• 1:55
  Oh, I know. There we go.
• 1:57
  So that's obviously one of the very few Doctor Who stories that
• 2:02
  have had its title in the dialogue, Fraser.
• 2:07
  Fraser, Frick Gregory thinks. Yeah, look, may I interject here
• 2:11
  for? A second.
• 2:12
  Please, because I have to say I'm having a fabulous day here
• 2:14
  in Bracknell. Hello out of London.
• 2:17
  I've come to visit my wonderful friends on in his new house
• 2:20
  which is absolutely stunning. Well, thanks.
• 2:23
  Very much. We've had a day through through
• 2:24
  memories of my life, basically, haven't we?
• 2:27
  I've. Been given delicious egg and
• 2:28
  bacons and hot crust buns and coffee.
• 2:30
  Treated like a Prince and in the dark, Dusty recesses.
• 2:35
  Well, not dusty is new. In the dark recesses of Simon
• 2:40
  Hart's cupboards is the most fabulous box of Doctor Who
• 2:45
  memorabilia. Dalek bubble baths.
• 2:48
  Are they bubble baths? No, they weren't Dalek bubble.
• 2:50
  That was TARDIS Bubble baths. TARDIS Bubble Baths.
• 2:53
  Talking Daleks. Talking a Cyberman mask that he
• 2:56
  made as a child. And best of all, this wonderful
• 3:00
  scrapbook. Of my.
• 3:02
  Scrapbook old clippings from all Doctor Who things that have been
• 3:06
  in newspapers and magazines in the mid 1980s.
• 3:09
  Sort of Colin Baker's time. Man, oh man, it's a fucking
• 3:13
  treasure trove. I will not disclose his address
• 3:16
  because I think you'll be around here like Ocean's fucking 11
• 3:19
  trying to nab the stuff. And my letter from Target Books,
• 3:22
  which relates to this story as well.
• 3:24
  And his copy of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Episode 6.
• 3:31
  The actual the the the camera print.
• 3:34
  Not the character, it's the sound tape.
• 3:36
  That's it. Sorry.
• 3:37
  Yeah, yeah. But the actual, the the, the
• 3:39
  real astonished. You got some amazing stuff.
• 3:42
  Here I know it's. As well as just about every bit
• 3:44
  of Doctor Who merchandise you could possibly think of,
• 3:48
  especially the books. Amongst all of those fabulous
• 3:52
  things, Sorry is a Blu-ray set for Season 18.
• 3:56
  Well, of course. I mean, it's the best season of
• 3:58
  Doctor Who. The best season, you think?
• 4:02
  If it's not the best, it's certainly my favorite.
• 4:05
  Please quantify that. It's the one I love best.
• 4:11
  You sucky git. This.
• 4:15
  Is it? Is it purely for nostalgic
• 4:17
  reasons or do you think genuinely this is the best
• 4:20
  season of? Genuinely, I think this stands
• 4:22
  up. I certainly this is the for me,
• 4:26
  the. The.
• 4:27
  Best season of classic Doctor Who and probably all of Doctor
• 4:30
  Who. If I'm because it's some of it's
• 4:34
  nostalgia, because this is really where I became a huge fan
• 4:38
  of anyone has ever heard the Leisure Hive commentary, which I
• 4:41
  think just about everyone in the world has heard.
• 4:45
  That was that was the story that made me a fan.
• 4:47
  But all of these stories are so etched in my head.
• 4:51
  I was just so in love with Doctor Who really at such a
• 4:55
  young age that this season just caught my imagination and.
• 4:59
  You know when you did that Leisure Hive commentary and you
• 5:02
  dropped the story about the canine that you go around?
• 5:04
  With Yeah, you would have seen him today.
• 5:06
  He was in that box, so he's a bit canine.
• 5:10
  Oh, he's a little bit tatty. He's falling apart a bit, but
• 5:12
  then he's very old. He is very old.
• 5:14
  And he doesn't go through this rigmarole that canine goes for.
• 5:17
  Instance. I'd have got him.
• 5:19
  The Christmas after full circle was on, so Christmas 1980.
• 5:22
  So yeah, he is very, very old. Poor old thing.
• 5:25
  When when Mark and I were talking about the 1980s in
• 5:29
  general, yeah, we kind of reached a consensus that the
• 5:32
  strongest parts of the 80s were the first season.
• 5:35
  So bid me season and the last three, which is Carmel seasons.
• 5:39
  And that's because there is just a consistent tone, yes.
• 5:44
  And there's sort of a willingness to push the envelope
• 5:47
  in interesting ways. I'm going to write off all of
• 5:49
  what Eric's sword did, you know, we did snake dance, you know,
• 5:53
  and we've done others more and undid most of season 20 really.
• 5:58
  But certainly like bid meets Stronghold of this season, and I
• 6:03
  do think I can detect Barry Letts in there as well, like his
• 6:09
  sort of focus on storytelling and John Nathan Turner's sort of
• 6:15
  ability to put the money on the screen between the three of
• 6:18
  them. Yeah, it's a new team coming in
• 6:21
  and wanting to show off what they can do and break from the
• 6:24
  past really, I think, isn't it? And I think.
• 6:27
  You've got your showpiece with the Leisure hive, which has got
• 6:30
  some of the most avant-garde direction, yeah?
• 6:32
  Ever until Warriors Gate, which has some of the most
• 6:35
  avant-garde. Direction.
• 6:37
  Ever. Until you go to Kinder, which
• 6:39
  has some of the most, yeah, but there's sort of few of arbiter.
• 6:43
  But then you had Meg Gloss, which is a bit of a throwback to
• 6:46
  season 17, but with sort of the new technology in place.
• 6:50
  So this was the first sort of like house style.
• 6:54
  Yes. This is.
• 6:55
  This is sort of really your first business, as this is what
• 6:59
  Doctor Who will look like in the 80s more than the previous two I
• 7:05
  think. And whilst it's introducing a
• 7:07
  new companion, it's not starting the season, it's not ending the
• 7:09
  season, It hasn't got continuity or the Master or anything.
• 7:13
  This is a relatively continuity free, stand alone science
• 7:18
  fiction story. Yes.
• 7:20
  And it's just, do you know what? I'm going to say a word, and
• 7:23
  this is a word I I hear people saying in a negative.
• 7:26
  And I mean this entirely. It's so competent, this story.
• 7:31
  It's competently written. It's competently directed.
• 7:34
  I would not be ashamed to put this on well, maybe some of the
• 7:37
  performances of the kids well. Yeah, but this is the danger of
• 7:41
  having kids. But it's so efficient.
• 7:44
  Yeah, and I think Peter Grimrage was one of the most talented of
• 7:49
  JN TS early directors, and him falling out with JNT was such a
• 7:53
  huge blow for the show. Over a spot of lunch.
• 7:56
  Yeah, exactly it. It shouldn't have happened and
• 7:59
  he should have been directing. What's that?
• 8:00
  You and Fraser have been off out for lunch without me.
• 8:03
  Well, we did. That's it.
• 8:05
  I'm never talking to either of you again.
• 8:09
  It's just pathetic. Thing isn't.
• 8:11
  It, you know, but we're talking with fragile egos, creative
• 8:16
  people, and these things happen. I mean, at this point there are
• 8:21
  tremendous ructions in the main cast.
• 8:24
  Yeah, but. It's not.
• 8:26
  Really on the screen? It's not on the screen I think.
• 8:28
  That's the interesting thing. It does come warrior's Gate.
• 8:32
  I think I can see it a little bit, you know, when, Lola Walsh
• 8:35
  said to add. You, you know, you'll do your
• 8:37
  talents, you know, and all of this.
• 8:38
  Whereas or in do you remember in State of Decay when she goes,
• 8:41
  well, what about Adric? And he goes Adric, is it a bit,
• 8:45
  oh, I've got to go back for that shit.
• 8:48
  But yeah, this this is remarkably good television.
• 8:53
  Yes, I think. It's a remarkably well written
• 8:55
  story. By an 18 year.
• 8:57
  Old, Exactly and fair play to Christopher H Bigmead for.
• 9:04
  Taking. That on.
• 9:05
  Risk, yeah. They couldn't.
• 9:08
  It may well have not paid off. And I think it's got all the
• 9:12
  things that make Doctor Who fantastic.
• 9:15
  It's got brilliant cliffhangers. These brilliant cliffhangers.
• 9:18
  Great monsters. Yeah, it's Pacey.
• 9:21
  I think Doctor Who at his best has really decent location work,
• 9:24
  and this is some of the best location work in Doctor Who.
• 9:28
  It's got a terrific score. Oh my God, yes.
• 9:30
  It's got the best shot of the TARDIS ever in space.
• 9:34
  Is that the bit where it's going around going into E space?
• 9:38
  Yeah, and well, and the really fast spinning across the screen
• 9:42
  very shortly into pot like, oh God, I love that.
• 9:45
  And I don't think it runs out. I think, I think the twist at
• 9:47
  the end is really good. It's it's got intelligent
• 9:50
  concepts in it which are explored in some depth the
• 9:52
  adult. Cast are all brilliant.
• 9:54
  Yeah. All of them.
• 9:56
  Well, I mean, I don't know what else we've got to say after
• 9:58
  talking about this. Particular.
• 9:59
  Oh well, we'd better start then. Wait.
• 10:01
  Should we go into episode one? Yes, please.
• 10:03
  OK, let's do it. Do you know what 10 Minutes now
• 10:06
  the Intro to Every Hamster commentary is about?
• 10:08
  Quite tight for us. OK.
• 10:11
  Your pardon. I'm alone in your house, you
• 10:14
  know you. Better count us in next.
• 10:17
  We're together, you know. I'll make some rude remark about
• 10:19
  you being in my bedroom or something, don't I?
• 10:22
  Well, there we go. It wouldn't be hamster
• 10:24
  otherwise, that's. True.
• 10:27
  I said I think I'm having an affair with every single
• 10:29
  contributor. Well, let's go, shall we?
• 10:31
  OK, I'll count us in. Go on then.
• 10:33
  In so it's so fabulous to just be able to watch it on the TV
• 10:37
  with the sound on. I know.
• 10:39
  Well, 5432 Marshmen, here we go. There we go.
• 10:51
  Lovely and Tom Tom's hair just fits this title sequence.
• 10:56
  It does. Poor Peter His his hair was
• 10:59
  never quite the same. But I loved, I loved all the
• 11:02
  title sequence or the star field titles.
• 11:04
  I don't know I've asked you this question before, but you must
• 11:06
  have got a bit of a shock. You know when this title
• 11:08
  sequence I don't remember. I just.
• 11:10
  Don't remember? Do you know what Nathan said?
• 11:12
  Did you hear? Yes.
• 11:13
  He thought it was a trailer for the show.
• 11:16
  He thought, Oh no, this is actually.
• 11:18
  It what I really Yeah. What I really like in season 18,
• 11:23
  particularly these early bits, is the feeling that they're all
• 11:28
  literally one after another. So here we are.
• 11:32
  They've just dropped off their friends.
• 11:34
  Oh yeah. From Med Loss.
• 11:36
  He said he's only going to be 10.
• 11:39
  Minutes still upset. Although I think when we come
• 11:43
  away from Christopher H bid Mead into Eric's award, Sorry you
• 11:47
  Eric's award lovers are there the the, the, the dialogue where
• 11:51
  they explain the transition from one story to another.
• 11:54
  You know those mutated misfits will terrorise me till the end
• 11:58
  of time and whilst you're enjoying 38.
• 12:01
  Hours. Deep sleep on the delta wave
• 12:03
  augmenter. Oh.
• 12:05
  Did I say that there was no continuity?
• 12:07
  There's continuity straight away, isn't it?
• 12:09
  Can meet your twin canine. What do you think of Romanas
• 12:11
  Room I love? Romanas Room.
• 12:13
  It's so pastel and peachy and it's just gorgeous.
• 12:16
  What are those? Mushrooms growing up the wall.
• 12:19
  I think it's some kind of screen.
• 12:21
  Oh, she's got a nice chess set look.
• 12:23
  This do. You imagine Doctor Who and
• 12:25
  Romana play chess in her bedroom.
• 12:26
  I bet they do to. Watch Chess.
• 12:30
  This is this is. Such a brilliant scene.
• 12:33
  You don't get scenes like this between the Doctor and Companion
• 12:36
  very often. No.
• 12:38
  And. And you certainly didn't in
• 12:40
  season 17. So there's suddenly it's
• 12:43
  suddenly being played. Dramatic, isn't it?
• 12:44
  Their. Their relationship.
• 12:46
  It's it's almost like this is a a conversation between Tom and
• 12:50
  Lala that they've got to go yeah as well and it's.
• 12:54
  I'm leaving the show. Whoa, you can't fight TV
• 12:57
  executives, you. Can't Fight JMT Romana 80. 8 To
• 13:02
  Gallifrey, that's. 2 minutes. Flight path clip.
• 13:06
  And here we go. Best spinning inspector.
• 13:08
  Look at that. That's just gorgeous.
• 13:12
  I don't know, but it's brilliant.
• 13:14
  Because it looks like a video effect.
• 13:15
  Yeah, but it's not. I think it's.
• 13:16
  Quantel but this is definitely Quantel as it's spinning here
• 13:20
  and I with the music and everything just so eerie and.
• 13:24
  I want I want to ask you about E space.
• 13:28
  OK. Well, does it work as a story
• 13:32
  arc? Well.
• 13:34
  What is brilliant about the E Space trilogy?
• 13:37
  And it's something that only occurred to me recently, is that
• 13:43
  all the stories are the same. They're not the same, the same,
• 13:47
  but all the settings are the same.
• 13:49
  You've got a spaceship that is stranded somewhere that it
• 13:52
  shouldn't be, and it's having a huge effect on the location
• 13:56
  around it. You're right.
• 14:00
  Yeah, all three stories are different variations.
• 14:04
  Of that totally different aren't.
• 14:06
  They. That's why they've.
• 14:07
  Noticed one's a gothic horror, one's sort of out and out
• 14:10
  science fiction, and one's just weird with a beard.
• 14:12
  So it took me years to realise it's all about stranded
• 14:17
  spaceships and the different reactions that has on the
• 14:20
  environment. Learn much about E space itself,
• 14:23
  do we we visit a couple of planets.
• 14:28
  A holding thing so that Romana doesn't go home, so they're
• 14:31
  trapped somewhere completely different and it gives the
• 14:35
  Doctors travels a bit more impetus and danger because.
• 14:39
  Kind of a purpose. The purpose is to get back into
• 14:41
  in space which and you know the whole of Warriors Gates built
• 14:45
  around that. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:47
  Very effectively as well. I'm going to tell you another
• 14:52
  reason why it's so successful because it's part of a larger
• 14:55
  arc in this yes. And where the charge vacuum
• 14:59
  envoyments are used to drain away the entire universe, Yes,
• 15:04
  what I think was he using them for?
• 15:06
  He's he's he's tossing. No, the the Locopolitans are
• 15:10
  using it to take all the entropy and toss it off somewhere else.
• 15:14
  Forgive my terminology. And what the masters going to do
• 15:17
  is spunk it all back and destroy the universe.
• 15:20
  Exactly. But Doctor Who doesn't really
• 15:23
  do. No, not at this time.
• 15:25
  Doctor Who never did this. That's far from the key to time.
• 15:28
  And even that was this is far tighter.
• 15:33
  So I need to point out that there are a large number of
• 15:36
  twink bums on this. I may need to pop off to the
• 15:40
  loos. For 5 minutes.
• 15:42
  All right, I'm sure they're all of AIDS.
• 15:45
  I'm all right. There's some shots later on when
• 15:47
  they're in the water. Yeah, I don't think they realise
• 15:49
  that the material went see through when it.
• 15:52
  Don't even need to be wearing clothes.
• 15:54
  You can see everything. Well, Peter Greenway, do you
• 15:56
  know so? This is at Black Park.
• 16:01
  I've never been to that. Park so just up the road from
• 16:03
  here and was it last year? Yeah, it was last year.
• 16:09
  Me and Pete Lambert and Colin Neal went and we stood in the
• 16:13
  place where the village was and watched a bit of full circle to
• 16:17
  make sure we were standing in exactly the right place.
• 16:19
  Did. You go into the water and take a
• 16:21
  picture of your see through. Glass I did not.
• 16:23
  Shame. Fun enough.
• 16:25
  I did go to Black Park once with Brendan Jones.
• 16:28
  Also of this. Did you go into the water?
• 16:31
  And take no, no, no. But we watched young, young lads
• 16:34
  diving into the water for some kind of film that they were
• 16:37
  making. So they were diving in from
• 16:38
  trees. We were just sat let me that's.
• 16:40
  Why we? Went up the deals and we saw
• 16:42
  those those soldiers come over the hill that.
• 16:45
  Was a. Very strange.
• 16:46
  Wasn't it? We got very excited.
• 16:50
  But what Grimway does here is like, I'm not just sitting this
• 16:53
  on location. No, I'm going to add some
• 16:55
  cobwebs to it. I'm going to do some interesting
• 16:57
  lighting. He's adding some tropical plants
• 17:00
  as well. There's a.
• 17:01
  Smoke. There's lots of dry ice going.
• 17:03
  Through it's. It's an incredible use of a
• 17:07
  brilliant location. Like you've got to remember,
• 17:09
  Doctor Who is on a shitty budget.
• 17:12
  Yeah, but he's doing everything he can.
• 17:14
  Well, I just don't think you can think Doctor Who is on a shitty
• 17:17
  budget in the season 18. It doesn't look like it.
• 17:19
  It suddenly feels so much classier.
• 17:23
  And to give John Nathan Turner the property he deserves, him
• 17:26
  saying, you know, like that will do in Season 17.
• 17:29
  And there was a bit of that. I know they didn't have much
• 17:32
  money, but there was a bit of that.
• 17:34
  Certainly with some of the direction, he's like, no, we're
• 17:37
  going to get in the best directors.
• 17:38
  We're going to bring in June Hudson.
• 17:40
  She's going to make everyone look rich and camp and fabulous.
• 17:43
  You know we'll have the best musicians from the Radiophonic
• 17:45
  Workshop like. Yeah, it's new injection.
• 17:48
  It all feels new. The money's on the screen, you
• 17:51
  know. Oh, here we go.
• 17:53
  So this is the first sign now that there's something.
• 17:56
  Something is wrong. Something spooky evolutionary is
• 17:59
  occurring on this planet and. When I was when I was doing my
• 18:07
  lockdown Doctor Who polls, which I've mentioned in in this
• 18:10
  podcast before because I was watching Doctor Who when I was
• 18:13
  furloughed, the very last story I did was full circle and I gave
• 18:18
  everyone the choice and it had four different names that it was
• 18:21
  known by in my so it was a production code which is 6
• 18:26
  something, 5 something I can't remember now, Full circle.
• 18:31
  And I gave the third option, which was the one with the
• 18:35
  spiders coming out of melons, which is what my sister still
• 18:39
  refers to this one. Oh really?
• 18:41
  Why? Because she always remembered.
• 18:43
  Because she was terrified of spiders.
• 18:45
  The one where the spiders came out of the melons.
• 18:49
  I mean I that that sequence which is not yet but that
• 18:52
  sequence. I think that is a good example
• 18:54
  of how good grim waste direction is, yes.
• 18:56
  Because this shouldn't work. The spider looks terrible, but
• 19:00
  he cuts very quickly from the thing, popping out the men to it
• 19:03
  being on her face. Yeah, and it's recorded
• 19:06
  backwards. So it's so it it's on her face
• 19:09
  and then it's pulled away and it's worked so.
• 19:12
  So, well, OK, come on. Right.
• 19:14
  We've got he is. No.
• 19:15
  Well, no, It's not just Adric, though, is it?
• 19:17
  No. Any one of these actors would
• 19:20
  have been a better. Choice than Matthew.
• 19:23
  Well, yes. Well, you you've got got Bernard
• 19:27
  Padden as Tylos, who's very good.
• 19:30
  He he he went up for the role of Adric and was told that he
• 19:34
  couldn't have it because he had to live a puddling accent.
• 19:37
  He's a better actor. He is a better actor.
• 19:40
  And then Vash, I mean, why it should have been Vash, Yes, Can
• 19:44
  I say What's the name of that fella?
• 19:46
  Richard's somebody isn't. It he is beautiful.
• 19:49
  Yeah, and he he ended up in a relationship with Kate O'Mara.
• 19:53
  What? As a child.
• 19:54
  A bit a few years after this. What?
• 19:56
  I say What? Shortly after this, he had a
• 19:59
  relationship with June Paige, who's playing Keira are.
• 20:02
  You telling me right now that Vash was having it off with
• 20:05
  Irani? Yeah, for years they were
• 20:08
  together. Really.
• 20:09
  What in like a happy relationship?
• 20:11
  I think it was fairly happy. I think there was a bit of abuse
• 20:13
  at the end and stuff, which was a shame, but yeah, there was a.
• 20:18
  Wow. There's a.
• 20:19
  Yeah, Vito Autobiography. It's amazing.
• 20:22
  Oh, OK. I'll get around.
• 20:23
  I mean, Kamara, Fabulous. But Matthew Waterhouse, I do
• 20:32
  think he has a he has moments in his run where I think he's
• 20:37
  pretty. Oh, no, I was supposed to say
• 20:38
  pretty good. OK.
• 20:40
  Yeah, I think he's all right in this scene.
• 20:41
  But he is. Let's be honest, he's not a
• 20:45
  great actor. He is stilted.
• 20:47
  He finds even things like walking across a set
• 20:51
  unconvincing. You know, like he's not the best
• 20:54
  choice they could have made, is he?
• 20:56
  Because he was quite pretty. I think so, but as a kid he was
• 21:01
  just in Doctor Who and so everyone in Doctor Who was was
• 21:04
  brilliant and he was great and I liked him a lot.
• 21:07
  But my issue with this, and I know I'm going to be very
• 21:11
  positive about this story because I think it's great.
• 21:13
  My issue with this is in the previous season you had two
• 21:16
  incredible actors as the regulars and K9 and she was a
• 21:20
  button and that swapped out for sorry, Peter Davison, who I
• 21:24
  think is Hit or Miss Atra, Teague and Anessa.
• 21:28
  That's not progress. It's it's really interesting.
• 21:32
  Always fine because JNT says oh, the line up was too smart two
• 21:37
  times. 2 geniuses. Two geniuses?
• 21:41
  Yeah. It's just wow, OK.
• 21:44
  And yet, you know when they get Adric to do physical stuff like
• 21:47
  this where he's. He can swim.
• 21:48
  He's stealing the river through. He's.
• 21:50
  But they don't do this enough. The Artful Dodgers.
• 21:52
  Stuff. And this is what he was supposed
• 21:54
  to be like. So like at the end of this, he
• 21:57
  steals the image translator, doesn't he?
• 21:59
  And the Doctor goes, you stole. That.
• 22:01
  Oh well. It could come in handy, you
• 22:05
  know. I do you know what this is
• 22:06
  really filmic? All of this.
• 22:08
  And you've got Paddy Kingsland doing really good music and it's
• 22:15
  very 1980. And that's fine, you know.
• 22:18
  This bit in a minute when all the mist comes up and he goes.
• 22:24
  It's a really creepy thing, yeah.
• 22:27
  And I think he does take decay as.
• 22:28
  Well, yeah, he does, yeah. Except that one's going.
• 22:31
  Do you remember? Sorry.
• 22:37
  If I was very patient. I don't.
• 22:38
  Know. The these Radiophonic Workshop
• 22:42
  scores are some of my favorite music for Doctor Who.
• 22:45
  Oh, me too. Me too.
• 22:46
  And just says oh it's so cheap bringing in synthesizer.
• 22:49
  No, no, no. You are the gentleman that wrote
• 22:52
  the dedication to Dudley Simpson for oh God.
• 22:56
  We are cults. Thank you.
• 22:57
  I did. At least you talked about that
• 22:58
  last night. Why can't I?
• 22:59
  Not remember that. Sorry, Candy.
• 23:02
  And so I know you love Dudley Simpson, but it was time.
• 23:07
  It was time, wasn't it? And I think this was absolutely
• 23:13
  the right decision. This season wouldn't be what it
• 23:17
  is with a Dudley Simpson score. It would be something else.
• 23:21
  It would be great. But this, the music this year
• 23:24
  just makes the series for me. You're.
• 23:26
  Going to have to forgive me now because this is the bit with all
• 23:28
  the bums the moment. Of silence for Joe the water.
• 23:34
  Here we go. Yeah, look, there's a lot of.
• 23:37
  Drivers. How do you make that happen?
• 23:39
  Let's put it in the water, I. Guess oh OK.
• 23:42
  Oh yeah, they're very see through.
• 23:44
  Oh my God on the. Left there.
• 23:46
  Oh, that is. The They're not wearing
• 23:48
  underpants. They.
• 23:50
  Will have talked to who? I mean, you just would, wouldn't
• 23:53
  you? You'd buy him a drink?
• 23:54
  Oh. Boy, I'm coming over a bitch,
• 23:57
  you know? Anyway, change the subject
• 24:00
  quick. They were very lucky with the
• 24:02
  weather. You're so English.
• 24:07
  You are. So.
• 24:07
  English. Oh, look at the ladies, the
• 24:10
  coming of misfall. Oh my dear.
• 24:12
  Oh my goodness. Who's this playing?
• 24:16
  He's very. Good.
• 24:17
  He's very good and he's only on location.
• 24:20
  Years, isn't he? Your years are very muddy.
• 24:22
  Who gets drugged off in the? He does, yeah.
• 24:24
  And that's that's that's leaning into some sort of B movie.
• 24:27
  Yeah, absolutely. That's yeah, that's a it.
• 24:29
  Came. From the swamp, Yeah, 1930s sort
• 24:32
  of horror of being dragged into something by by a hand.
• 24:37
  And they're doing the thing that I think good, again, really good
• 24:41
  Doctor Who does is they're pouring a lot of location work
• 24:44
  into the first episode. So the first episode just feels
• 24:47
  very filmic. Then there's none in part four.
• 24:49
  Really. We've discussed this before.
• 24:51
  Haven't. We there's lots going on in part
• 24:53
  four though, isn't it? Ramana's evil marsh men are
• 24:55
  attacked. We're based Under Siege, but at
• 24:57
  that point, Edrick, Oh my God, you've watched the camera work
• 25:04
  in this sequence now where he chases through the forest and
• 25:08
  it's sort of sweeping around. There's only one other director
• 25:11
  that I can think of that does those sweeps.
• 25:13
  Peter Moffer. Who am I talking about?
• 25:16
  It's Graham Harper and Kate Andrezzani when he's in that
• 25:19
  quarry. So John Nathan Turner was
• 25:22
  bringing in some dynamism with his directors.
• 25:25
  It's just brilliant stuff. It's really, really, and it's
• 25:30
  such a far cry from season 17, which we both love.
• 25:34
  Yeah, absolutely. They're my two favorite.
• 25:37
  Seasons. Of Doctor Who?
• 25:39
  And they're so different. Yeah, you know, But then they
• 25:42
  are, they are childhood seasons. Aren't they are?
• 25:44
  So when you did the tape recordings of this well, did you
• 25:48
  listen to it over and? Over.
• 25:49
  Oh God, yeah. Do you know what I used to do?
• 25:51
  I've just remembered this. I also had the view.
• 25:54
  Master slides a full circle with my so you get the 3D image.
• 25:59
  So I would listen to the listen to the tape and watch it through
• 26:03
  the 3D slides. You know, I'm surprised you
• 26:06
  about as much sex as you have. You know the stories you tell me
• 26:09
  from your childhood. I.
• 26:11
  Told you it was a very happy time.
• 26:14
  Yeah, it sounds like it was, yeah.
• 26:17
  That's later childhood. Though all right.
• 26:20
  Oh, look at that model. See that model?
• 26:22
  Very often it's a really. Complex model.
• 26:25
  So is that one of the shots in the star liner?
• 26:27
  Yeah, with the mist around it. OK, again, I did the commentary
• 26:34
  for Robot's death yesterday and I said that Doctor Who
• 26:37
  spaceships in the classic series very often don't look too
• 26:40
  functional. You know, they look like
• 26:42
  spaceship sets for the BBC. For Doctor Who, yes.
• 26:45
  But the star liner like the sand miner.
• 26:49
  Feels like a place. It feels like a place where
• 26:51
  people could live and work. Yeah, you know, it's doing that
• 26:55
  season seventeen thing. You know of lots of triangles,
• 26:58
  Trian. Design.
• 27:00
  So here we've got a really good trio of actors who got George
• 27:04
  Baker as Logan, Alan Rowe as oh, what's his name?
• 27:12
  Who was Alan? Was Alan Rowe in a relationship
• 27:14
  with Jeff D Belden? That's right.
• 27:15
  Yeah. And he's he's back off to Fang
• 27:17
  Rock and. Lord no, not Lord Palmer Dale
• 27:20
  Skin sale. Skin sale, yeah, and the
• 27:23
  wonderful James Bree. Adelaide, Doctor, They've got
• 27:26
  Adelaide. Oh my God.
• 27:27
  James Bree, the Lord. And I can remember telling my my
• 27:34
  friend Richard at school that James Bree had been in Doctor
• 27:39
  Who before we saw the War Games. He said no, I don't know, he
• 27:41
  said. Yeah, he was in full circle.
• 27:43
  And he was. And then the trial of a time.
• 27:47
  Lost Directionists are running amok on Gallifrey.
• 27:51
  He was one of our favourites. We used to love doing an
• 27:53
  impression of him, but scary. This was really scary.
• 27:56
  I didn't like this we've. Come this, that water looks
• 28:02
  really mucky. It looks.
• 28:02
  Horrible, doesn't it? And.
• 28:05
  Man going under the mist. Beautiful.
• 28:08
  That is pure horror, yeah, isn't it?
• 28:10
  Brilliantly done. Oh, he's literally, he's just
• 28:13
  been drowned. Yeah, that's pretty, pretty
• 28:15
  grizzly. Oh.
• 28:17
  And there's a. Fabulous shot in a minute where
• 28:20
  Adric runs towards the TARDIS and the piano's going full.
• 28:25
  Sorry, you've got to forgive me. With the instant of music I get
• 28:28
  very excited. Sorry.
• 28:30
  I'm so sorry. So these three fellas.
• 28:36
  Yeah. Two of them know the secret,
• 28:39
  don't they? Yes.
• 28:40
  And the other one is it? What?
• 28:42
  Until. Until they can trust him?
• 28:44
  Yeah, that You don't see this. Yeah, no, they no, they don't.
• 28:48
  Only nee Fred only know finds out when he becomes first
• 28:52
  decider because there's that scene in Part 2 where he sees
• 28:55
  where he looks ashamed because he knows such secrets.
• 28:59
  Gareth. Gareth.
• 29:00
  That's the second one. Yeah, apparently on the on the
• 29:05
  subtitles on Brit box I saw someone put the other day they
• 29:07
  put Gary and nee Fred's written N EE space Fred Oh dear oh.
• 29:17
  I'm not sure Hadrick can actually even faint if.
• 29:19
  I'm. If I'm honest, I quite like the
• 29:22
  feature of him healing quite quickly.
• 29:24
  Yes, that's good. And we come back to it in a
• 29:26
  visitation Don't. We, yeah, and not talk very
• 29:28
  often. Yeah, shame, I'm.
• 29:31
  Syrians heal faster than you, Tegan.
• 29:34
  Shame, shame. He couldn't have put those
• 29:36
  healing powers to use at the end of her shop, couldn't he?
• 29:39
  All those all those bits of him coming.
• 29:41
  To Germany, you. Must have seen that claymation.
• 29:44
  I have, yes. Unless.
• 29:48
  You listen to Big Finish. Have they put him in Romana's
• 29:51
  room? They have.
• 29:51
  Or maybe it's the nearest to the console room.
• 29:54
  Or maybe it's the only other set they've got?
• 29:56
  But this is important as well, isn't it?
• 29:58
  Because then we come back to Romana's room in Lagopoulos.
• 30:00
  Yes, and it's. Jettisoned.
• 30:04
  In Lagopoulos. Ah, And you just see that
• 30:08
  little, little bit of it in Lagopoulos.
• 30:11
  And rather charmingly, she's got a photo of canine on her
• 30:13
  dressing table, which I love. I think that's that's so
• 30:17
  gorgeous. Excuse me, I think you've got
• 30:19
  one of canine on your I don't think anyone's in love with
• 30:23
  canine more than you know. Probably.
• 30:26
  Not. In fact, I'd almost say you are
• 30:29
  the crowning champion of season 17 and 18 as well.
• 30:32
  Probably. Oh, even the belts come in
• 30:37
  important later, don't they? Because when Adric dies, he
• 30:40
  lifts up his brother's belt that he's.
• 30:42
  Wearing yeah that his he get takes that in this story it's
• 30:46
  given to him. And interestingly, I think there
• 30:52
  are far more moments of drama and pathos in this season than
• 30:57
  we ever got in 17. No, I'm not going to shit on 17.
• 31:00
  I it's. I prefer 17.
• 31:03
  It's fun. It's big, bold concepts.
• 31:05
  It's adventurous. It's got, you know, the the
• 31:08
  boldest, most confident companion and doctor.
• 31:12
  But great drama it ain't. No, but this has, and I think we
• 31:20
  quite often. Doctor Who quite often takes
• 31:23
  Lala Ward for granted, and I don't think she ever gets the
• 31:26
  kudos she deserves. She's still my favorite
• 31:28
  companion. She's so confident.
• 31:31
  I. I think she's one of the best.
• 31:33
  I think she. Is.
• 31:34
  She is really, really good. When she's really bossy in the
• 31:37
  Gallafroy audios, OK, OK, a little bit hard.
• 31:40
  You know she's seriously good in those Gallafroy audios.
• 31:44
  She's terrifying. In this story, we'll come on to
• 31:48
  this later on. SO for for the second-half of
• 31:51
  the story, she's basically mute, but she does such interesting
• 31:57
  things with what she's got to play with.
• 32:01
  Well, she's affected. She's playing evil, isn't she?
• 32:03
  Or sort of. Monsters, yeah.
• 32:05
  But the way she sort of glides around the sets and she's sort
• 32:08
  of like, she's got claws, she's whipping at the air, isn't she?
• 32:12
  It's very different from when Sarah Jane played evil in Yeah,
• 32:17
  There's almost like a slightly seductive quality about her.
• 32:22
  And I and Tom and Lala together. Just so great.
• 32:27
  You see all this? Bricker Brack about the sound?
• 32:29
  Yes, brilliant. Tearing out the console.
• 32:32
  Real space doesn't have. Negative coordinates.
• 32:37
  Oh, what does that? Mean.
• 32:38
  She's so pretty as well. She just a very accomplished
• 32:43
  actress as well. I'm surprised she didn't get
• 32:45
  more work. Actually, she.
• 32:46
  Should have done. Oh, this is.
• 32:48
  We're coming up to one of the single moment.
• 32:52
  Best. I There are lots of Doctor Who
• 32:55
  cliffhangers, which are monsters coming out of water from the
• 32:58
  Dalek, Invasion of Earth, the Sea Devils, Curse of Henrik.
• 33:02
  And everyone always says, oh, the Sea Devils is the best one,
• 33:04
  but actually it's this one I. Think the Sea Devils look a bit
• 33:07
  drunk when they come out? Of the water.
• 33:09
  This is so stylishly directed, with the slow motion and the
• 33:14
  music and the dry ice and the sun behind them.
• 33:18
  This is certainly the most arty of all of them, yeah, for sure.
• 33:23
  And I like the fact that, like in the sea levels, they just
• 33:25
  sort of come straight out of the water.
• 33:27
  The second episode of this they take ages coming out of the
• 33:30
  water, and they're all silhouetted by the sun.
• 33:33
  It's beautiful. Like, yeah, I can remember this
• 33:36
  being a really creepy moment because you don't know what's
• 33:39
  going to happen and then suddenly.
• 33:41
  And then I think this is the sort of moment you talk about in
• 33:43
  the playground the next day. Did you watch Doctor Who last
• 33:46
  night? Monsters came out of the lake.
• 33:50
  It's just the way it's framed with the plants in the
• 33:52
  foreground, so you can't quite see them, and they with the
• 33:55
  light you can't. They're brilliant.
• 33:57
  What's impressive as well is I don't think they're the best
• 34:00
  costumes. No.
• 34:01
  And yet, the way they're shot. Yeah, the way they're shot here,
• 34:05
  you can't really tell at this point.
• 34:07
  And even when you can, when they're in the studio, it's the
• 34:10
  masked child. Yeah, and you've got a.
• 34:14
  You care about it. It's it's such a lovely
• 34:16
  performance. So you care.
• 34:18
  I think a lot of it is down to how Tom Baker acts.
• 34:20
  Yes. You know, hello.
• 34:22
  How old? I usually get on terribly well
• 34:24
  with children. As a scene setter, that's an
• 34:29
  interesting episode as well, because the Doctor and Romana
• 34:32
  didn't even leave the TARDIS till the very.
• 34:34
  End No, exactly. But they've got other things
• 34:37
  going on which is setting up what's to come later.
• 34:40
  What's happening in this season, because the same thing happens
• 34:43
  in Megalos, they don't leave the TARDIS in episode one tonight,
• 34:46
  is they're setting up convincing settings.
• 34:50
  Yes, they're building up these worlds and then outcomes the
• 34:53
  Doctor Omana to to lots of investigation and exploration.
• 34:58
  And I do think that's in sharp contrast to 17, where they're
• 35:01
  straight, in the thick of it being brilliant and funny, you
• 35:05
  know? Yeah, it's and it it becomes a
• 35:09
  bit of a problem in season 22 when they're not out for so
• 35:14
  long, or so it feels Anyway, It's probably not as as long as
• 35:20
  as this story has been, but I don't know.
• 35:23
  It's, yeah, it's just it's just an 80s thing, isn't it?
• 35:27
  I think. Well, sorry, I would like to
• 35:30
  find out what sinister creatures have just emerged.
• 35:34
  Well. Absolutely.
• 35:35
  From the water, would you care to hold my hand?
• 35:38
  I keep asking you to hold my. Hand we're always doing.
• 35:41
  This last time you made me watch snake fucking snake darts.
• 35:43
  This time I'm watching monsters coming out of the water.
• 35:45
  Exactly so. I'll never sleep again.
• 36:14
  The. Hamster with a blump pen knife
• 36:26
  for doing quicker. Quicker oh welcome back to our
• 36:32
  Hamster with a Blump Pen Knife. The Doctor Who Commentary
• 36:36
  Podcast Some of the greatest moments of my life are with the
• 36:42
  man I'm with today. Mr. Simon Hart.
• 36:44
  Hello. Hello.
• 36:45
  How you doing today? All right.
• 36:47
  Thank you. It's lovely to have you here in
• 36:49
  my living room. I.
• 36:50
  Wonder what you've got to say there.
• 36:53
  No wonder, people. Talk.
• 36:55
  They do well. Every time I post a picture of
• 36:57
  you and me, you know, they think I'm declaring that I'm in a new
• 36:59
  relationship. We take good picture of you and
• 37:02
  me, so I'd like you to do me a favour if you would.
• 37:06
  OK, could you please explain the plot to full circle to me
• 37:09
  please, because I'm still not entirely sure I've got a handle
• 37:12
  on this whole evolutionary plot. Well, I the evolution is is
• 37:20
  probably fudged little. It's probably not scientifically
• 37:23
  accurate, but basically there seem to be 3 states of life on
• 37:29
  the planet. Hours area.
• 37:30
  So there's the spiders who are the earliest evolutionary life,
• 37:34
  and they somehow become marshmen, who somehow become the
• 37:39
  people who live in the star line.
• 37:41
  And this is a sequence that's gone on and on and on so.
• 37:45
  So when did the Star liner first land?
• 37:49
  A long time ago and basically what's happened.
• 37:52
  Is 30 generations, is it? Was it more than that?
• 37:55
  More like 4000 generations, I think.
• 37:57
  Romanuses, Can you say 40 generations?
• 37:59
  More like. They've been repairing that ship
• 38:02
  for 4000 generations. Because the manuals in the
• 38:05
  they'll learn to read and then they put it back together and
• 38:08
  they smash it apart, put it back together.
• 38:10
  And this goes on and on and on and and so the people, the marsh
• 38:15
  men, evolved to become the people who live in the ship,
• 38:18
  because they evolved to become the evolution works quite fast
• 38:22
  apparently on this planet. As far as I can pick up, this is
• 38:26
  what. And so they think that they are
• 38:32
  the descendants of the spaceship that came down in the 1st place,
• 38:36
  and that they've just been ticking this ship over all this
• 38:39
  time. And because they don't remember.
• 38:41
  That the only person that ever knows this true secret that's
• 38:44
  basically keeping this thing in perpetual loop is the head
• 38:49
  decider. That's right, yeah, the keeper
• 38:51
  of the system files, because that's where it's revealed.
• 38:54
  But of course they can't leave in the spaceship because they
• 38:57
  haven't got the page that tells them how to.
• 39:00
  Lift the ship Which? Is that is such a.
• 39:02
  Funny joke, the Green button gentleman, the the bit where we
• 39:08
  lead after that, where he's like no one knows how to.
• 39:12
  Fly. It's so funny.
• 39:16
  But it's such a it's a really nice bit of storytelling,
• 39:20
  though, and that's why this sequence goes on and on and
• 39:24
  round and round and round, because they eventually get
• 39:27
  wiped out by the Marsh Man who invade and it begins all over
• 39:31
  again. Can I ask you then, because
• 39:34
  that's a big idea to wrap your head around evolution?
• 39:37
  Yeah. Did Doctor Who, you know, you
• 39:43
  were 17 and 18 big concepts. Was Doctor.
• 39:48
  Who? Introducing you to sort of big.
• 39:51
  Were you mulling these over? I can't remember.
• 39:55
  I I think as a child I was just swept along by what was had the
• 39:59
  adventure. In it, which is probably like.
• 40:02
  The point? I remembered images.
• 40:05
  I didn't remember the plots of the stories.
• 40:07
  It was images like Davros coming back to life, the Macvellan ship
• 40:11
  burying itself, Scaroff's face, the Mandrel bursting through the
• 40:16
  walls of the ship, Everything. In the leisure hive that.
• 40:20
  Was just amazing. The Doctor is Megloss, and here
• 40:24
  it's the the spiders coming out with the melons in the
• 40:27
  cliffhanger. Here the Marshmen coming round.
• 40:29
  Romana possessed things like that, and the TARDIS in space
• 40:33
  canine on location. It was a Doctor Who was like a
• 40:37
  series of images that stayed in my head, and it was only when I
• 40:42
  was slightly older and was reading the books that I would
• 40:45
  pick up what the plots were. I know there was an episode
• 40:48
  guide. Yeah, I was going to say.
• 40:50
  I could see I'd. Imagine it's the targets.
• 40:52
  Yeah, the targets where you've got more.
• 40:53
  Time you, You. Take more time reading a book,
• 40:57
  Yeah, And then you get. Immersed in that world, right,
• 40:59
  the book for this one I won in the Target Book competition in
• 41:03
  1983. I saw.
• 41:06
  The letter today. Yeah.
• 41:07
  And. Brilliantly, about 10 years ago
• 41:10
  I met Andrew Smith and I was able to tell him that and he
• 41:13
  signed the book for me and which was was lovely and I was able to
• 41:17
  say what an impact this story had on me as a young child,
• 41:21
  because it it really did. This one was very, very
• 41:23
  memorable, particularly because I'd had the tape as well.
• 41:26
  So I knew the plot of this one actually probably better than
• 41:29
  any other because I heard it so much.
• 41:32
  But again, I would listen to bits.
• 41:33
  I would very rarely listen to the whole thing, because I've
• 41:37
  listened to the bits where the music was good.
• 41:39
  Or Part 2. Was quite.
• 41:41
  Boring, because there's a lot of talking in Part 2, so I didn't
• 41:43
  listen to that so much. But part three I really loved.
• 41:46
  You know what? Right?
• 41:48
  I. Had two VHSS when I was growing
• 41:51
  up and I'd put a blank tape in one, connect the skirt lead from
• 41:55
  one to the other, and then I'd record all my favorite scenes
• 42:00
  and I had a. Like a mixed.
• 42:02
  VHS tape. Oh wow.
• 42:04
  OK, all my favorite scenes. But you couldn't do it with the
• 42:07
  ones that they brought out. No, they wouldn't record but
• 42:10
  the. Ones you taped off the telly,
• 42:11
  the ones that I got sent to me from.
• 42:12
  Scotland. Yeah.
• 42:13
  And I had. Oh, oh, I wish I could find that
• 42:15
  now. I had.
• 42:16
  Yeah, I had an because. My dad used to have the video
• 42:20
  and the TV connected to his stereo.
• 42:22
  I could record the audio of things quite easily, so I had a
• 42:25
  cassette of my favorite bits from Doctor Who's story.
• 42:28
  So bits where the music were. Have you still got that?
• 42:30
  No all. My cassettes have gone.
• 42:32
  Why do we keep these things? I.
• 42:34
  Love to watch that video? Yeah.
• 42:35
  What what I would have? Chosen Oh.
• 42:39
  Yeah, it's it's interesting. We knew we were going to head
• 42:41
  back into. The past for this one we did and
• 42:43
  have a bit of nostalgia. There's a reason why when I look
• 42:46
  at the demographics on this podcast, there's a huge spike
• 42:50
  between 30 and 50 because we were all doing.
• 42:53
  This at the same. Time.
• 42:55
  Well, look, let's. Let's.
• 42:56
  Get to Part 2. I've got a.
• 43:00
  Talking. Point as soon as we go in.
• 43:01
  All right then. OK as.
• 43:02
  Usual. Yep.
• 43:03
  So I will count us in in 54321 Go.
• 43:10
  I don't know, if anybody. Anybody watches alongside the
• 43:14
  episodes, you know, it'd be interesting.
• 43:15
  I I sometimes. Think I should.
• 43:17
  To keep with the ones I've done, it'd be nice to to do that now.
• 43:20
  Wonder if it if it means it does.
• 43:22
  Have re listenability this podcast because if you haven't
• 43:25
  then you mind that you might exactly, but that wasn't.
• 43:28
  My talk do. Write in if you've if.
• 43:30
  You have done that, if anybody has watched this.
• 43:32
  Alongside an episode, what's it like?
• 43:35
  I've only done it once. I think Mark's only done it once
• 43:38
  as well. No, my pocket point is Andrew
• 43:41
  Smith who's an interesting fella.
• 43:44
  He is a a little bit self effacing and quite quiet.
• 43:49
  He doesn't strike me as a very egotistical writer, no, and
• 43:53
  certainly not at the time as a as a young kid.
• 43:56
  Since he has written. A number of Big Finish audios
• 44:01
  now hit. And.
• 44:04
  Miss. Is how I would describe.
• 44:07
  That was a miss that. Was a big miss, but he.
• 44:10
  Wrote the 1st. Sontarans for the lost stories
• 44:13
  and that was a big hit. I thought he's written some
• 44:17
  interesting ones for Tom Baker, Lala Water, Matthew Waterhouse
• 44:20
  later on, which were really great and then he's done some
• 44:23
  for like you know the hour long Tom Baker ones that were pretty.
• 44:28
  Dreary. And I don't know if maybe crisp
• 44:32
  Bidmead did beat this up a little bit because I don't think
• 44:35
  he's written a script since as good as this.
• 44:38
  No, I've I've. Often wondered how crisp bidmead
• 44:42
  has has in typical crisp bidmead's way Well.
• 44:47
  Done. How much?
• 44:48
  He wrote. Of this season, and I suspect
• 44:51
  this one needed a lot of help. But.
• 44:55
  I mean, he's always. Actually, he's always been very
• 44:58
  generous to Andrew Smith and said yeah, he was.
• 45:02
  Really good. Very spotty young lad who came
• 45:04
  to the office. He always talks about his acne,
• 45:06
  doesn't he? All right, Chris.
• 45:09
  Bid me that's. Very rude.
• 45:11
  But I you know, this is just screaming at Bid Me This story,
• 45:14
  isn't it? All of the.
• 45:16
  Technical dialogue it's. Very bid Mead.
• 45:19
  Sort of how thoughtful. And smart it is, the moments of
• 45:22
  drama. Because like, Bidmede could
• 45:24
  absolutely write drama. Yep, but even the.
• 45:27
  Monsters are not monsters. No, no, no.
• 45:30
  They're a. Concept, aren't they?
• 45:32
  Although really, if it was a bidmede script it would be
• 45:34
  called Alzarious. Well, it's supposed to be the
• 45:38
  planet that. Slept, wasn't it?
• 45:40
  I think that was the original title.
• 45:42
  Really good title. Them full circle, yeah.
• 45:46
  Oh well. Never mind, so he so.
• 45:49
  I still think the last men look pretty good here.
• 45:51
  As they come out more there are worse.
• 45:53
  Monsters. And they're sort of glistening,
• 45:55
  aren't they? Because.
• 45:55
  They're just because they're all wet and and.
• 45:58
  They're made of rubber. All right, all right.
• 46:02
  All right, You. Better not be lying.
• 46:04
  Adric, Miss. Falls a myth.
• 46:08
  Yeah. I wouldn't want to.
• 46:09
  Hang out with these kids, you know, No, they.
• 46:12
  Seem a bit whiny. But it's a fun.
• 46:16
  Idea for kids. I think that there's a bunch of
• 46:20
  sort of kid rebels, yeah, Fighting against the system.
• 46:24
  They're a bit useless. Though aren't.
• 46:26
  They in a bit. Didn't you like them when you
• 46:27
  were a kid? Yeah, What my?
• 46:30
  Sister really liked Kira. I think I seem to remember her
• 46:33
  liking that, but that might be because it's a rare occurrence
• 46:36
  of a young girl in Doctor Who since I have now become.
• 46:39
  The Mary White House of Hanson. A blunt penknife.
• 46:42
  Certainly not when it comes to sexual references, but when it
• 46:44
  comes to violence and horror. I've been talking about this a
• 46:46
  lot recently and times where I think the show's crossed the
• 46:49
  line. There is a sequence in this
• 46:51
  where they go into the TARDIS and they're waving knives.
• 46:53
  Yeah, it's not. You wouldn't get away with that.
• 46:55
  Now, I don't think you should have got away with it at the
• 46:57
  time, no, and they're pretty, pretty shoddy.
• 46:59
  Looking knives. So it doesn't look too bad, but
• 47:02
  the inferences there take us where we want to go.
• 47:04
  We're going to stab you, Lyle Awards, You know, I love all
• 47:08
  these things of the Doctor and. Canine crouching down and hiding
• 47:11
  behind bushes and things like that.
• 47:13
  Oh, it's nice for canine. It's not.
• 47:15
  To be abused in this season, well, he does get.
• 47:18
  Incredibly abused very shortly, he was a bit appalled as a.
• 47:22
  Child, yeah. When he goes, he's had locked
• 47:23
  off all the. Masked child.
• 47:26
  He. Sort.
• 47:28
  Of comes out all of his own to. Me you do.
• 47:31
  See nature videos. Like that sometimes where they
• 47:33
  leave their little. Baby one.
• 47:34
  Behind, like the useless one, you know.
• 47:38
  But how long does it take then to?
• 47:41
  Evolve from a spider to a marshman and then throw a
• 47:43
  marshman to a person. No.
• 47:46
  So they. Sort of skit.
• 47:47
  Over that they do. I think we're.
• 47:49
  Supposed. To be so thrilled by the idea of
• 47:52
  it, yeah. That you don't have, don't have
• 47:54
  time. To think about it, you don't ask
• 47:55
  too many questions. No, I.
• 47:57
  Got very clean they have considering.
• 47:59
  They've been out in the mud. That's right.
• 48:02
  He goes we're. Taking over your ship.
• 48:06
  Oh, actually. It looks very.
• 48:07
  Apologetic, yeah. And here's Neve Fred, who has.
• 48:11
  Just had his this moment he looks.
• 48:14
  Absolutely. Haunted Speaking of somebody who
• 48:17
  works in a. Library, right?
• 48:18
  Yeah, that's very tidy though. It's very tidy, all those files.
• 48:21
  In. Special little.
• 48:22
  Patterns. It's but.
• 48:25
  I remember the set. Seeing an interview with the set
• 48:28
  designer and so these are all milk crates, are they?
• 48:32
  Really. And they're disguised.
• 48:33
  With bits of paper in them so you don't see.
• 48:35
  So they could where you've got the the space for the bottles
• 48:39
  that put a piece of paper in them and it distracts you from
• 48:41
  what they actually are. So it's done.
• 48:42
  I couldn't tell at all. I couldn't.
• 48:44
  Tell at all. And in fact, in a minute where
• 48:47
  he gives the great speech to everyone on the ship, you see
• 48:50
  that long shot? Yeah.
• 48:52
  With a huge start above them, yeah.
• 48:54
  It's nice and it's shooting up, so it looks like it's huge.
• 48:58
  It's probably a tiny set, but towards the embarkation the.
• 49:04
  Embarkation. Citizens continue the work of
• 49:09
  maintenance. So is there a comment?
• 49:12
  Here on sort of bureaucracy there.
• 49:14
  Oh, absolutely. Going round in.
• 49:16
  Circles and. Not actually achieving anything,
• 49:19
  and again, that ties in with full.
• 49:21
  Circle. Well, it ties in with 17,
• 49:23
  Douglas. Adams was obsessed with that.
• 49:24
  Those two. That pair from Nightmare of Eden
• 49:27
  to tying them up in red tape. Yeah.
• 49:31
  But there's very much. It's about the procedures and
• 49:35
  keeping things going and this is how you control your population,
• 49:39
  isn't it? Because they have their jobs and
• 49:42
  they keep doing them. The difference together is this
• 49:45
  is played. Absolutely straight, Yeah.
• 49:48
  If this was 17, they would have, Yeah, this would be.
• 49:51
  Played out of the. Hill, wouldn't it?
• 49:54
  Yeah, and you've probably had a. Scene where someone comes and
• 49:56
  repairs something and then someone comes and takes it apart
• 50:00
  and puts it all back together again and you'd probably
• 50:03
  explore. The star liner and find that
• 50:05
  fella in his bathtub from hitchhikers going, Well, we
• 50:08
  can't actually do anything, we we just go round and round, you
• 50:12
  know, and speaking. Of going round and round,
• 50:14
  there's. Canine on location doing a good
• 50:16
  job in the muds. I can't see these strings.
• 50:18
  No, no. No.
• 50:20
  What? What's happening to Ramana?
• 50:22
  Yeah, no, that's a bit the knife to earth throat.
• 50:25
  Actually, look, they're they're literally fighting with.
• 50:27
  Knives. It's not on and.
• 50:29
  This as well, Romana. Holding the knife to him, Yeah,
• 50:33
  and. Then turning it.
• 50:34
  Round, Yeah, it's. It isn't your.
• 50:39
  Knife. Do you know?
• 50:40
  I remember. When I first saw this, I I got
• 50:46
  the E Space trilogy on. VHS.
• 50:50
  And for me, it was some of the best TV I thought I'd ever seen
• 50:55
  at the time. The three stories are really.
• 50:57
  Strong and different ways, and they're all doing something
• 51:01
  different with Doctor Who. The one thing I think they
• 51:05
  missed a trick at doing in this story was showing the Marshmen
• 51:10
  carrying the TARDIS they could have.
• 51:13
  Done that, couldn't they? They could have done that.
• 51:15
  It's. Quite a.
• 51:15
  Lightweight prop. It would have been one of the.
• 51:18
  Iconic images of Doctor Who a series of monsters carrying.
• 51:24
  The police box. I think it would have been
• 51:27
  really cool to see that. I don't know why they didn't the
• 51:30
  comedy here. I know.
• 51:31
  There's Tom. Just.
• 51:33
  And look, they've cut out a. Square in the flowers?
• 51:35
  Yeah, it's like, is it invisible?
• 51:39
  What? We haven't done this since.
• 51:40
  The invasion have we and people. Oh, I've.
• 51:44
  Come back to. This, particularly in Part 3,
• 51:46
  but people say there's no comedy in season.
• 51:50
  There's no. Season.
• 51:50
  There's no comedy. And Tom Baker can't be asked,
• 51:54
  but he is. He's on terrific form in this
• 51:57
  story. He's.
• 52:00
  He's. Actually.
• 52:01
  Looking at this, compared to the Leisure Hive, he's aged quite a
• 52:05
  lot because we're recording out of order.
• 52:07
  So they've done the Leisure Hive, State of Decay Med loss
• 52:12
  than this one, but he's. Obviously.
• 52:15
  Better from whatever the illness was that he had.
• 52:18
  And there are many different opinions of what he's drinking.
• 52:21
  A lot, Drinking a lot, yeah. And just a bit depressed.
• 52:24
  Yeah, it was coming to an end. A thyroid problem?
• 52:28
  And losing weight. So he's looking healthy here,
• 52:30
  but it has aged him. I don't think you can say it
• 52:34
  hasn't, but he is on blistering form in this story and he's
• 52:39
  doing things that he hasn't done with the part before or we
• 52:43
  haven't seen him do for a long time.
• 52:46
  It's the bit where the marsh. Child dies, yeah, and he is
• 52:50
  furious. They haven't seen him that angry
• 52:53
  since the pirate planet, yeah. Yeah, and he never gets.
• 52:59
  Lauded. For what he's doing, it's always
• 53:01
  what he's not doing. And everyone says he's
• 53:03
  miserable, but he's not miserable until the very end,
• 53:07
  until Lugopolis. Yeah, and I think because.
• 53:12
  I think there is there. Is an absolute thing here to
• 53:17
  make him act in this season, wasn't it?
• 53:19
  And it's a good choice because he's a.
• 53:21
  Really. Great.
• 53:21
  Actor, yeah. And I don't.
• 53:23
  I know he didn't. Like it because they were
• 53:25
  basically telling him what to do all of a sudden.
• 53:28
  But you're right, he's so good. Why wouldn't you?
• 53:31
  Showcase. That, and I think Bitmead would
• 53:33
  come down on the set and say read the fucking script as we
• 53:37
  wrote it, you know? And maybe not quite like that.
• 53:41
  Yeah, but I. That's the those scenes in Part
• 53:45
  3 where he's confronting the deciders.
• 53:47
  He is just one of his very best performances, and it never gets
• 53:51
  lauded in the way that the start of Pyramids of Mars or the Homo
• 53:57
  sapiens speech, whatever gets. But I think it's one of his key
• 54:01
  moments, and right at the last minute he's still pulling
• 54:05
  something surprising out of his his performance to what I think
• 54:09
  the funniest bit in the story. Is Romana, Roma and Rick?
• 54:16
  Where's? Romana.
• 54:17
  Never mind my, my, my. Funniest bit is coming up in
• 54:21
  this episode where you've got the wonderful bit where I am nee
• 54:25
  Fred, I am Gareth, I am Logan, and then Tom just turns around
• 54:30
  with a huge grin, just says and I'm the Doctor.
• 54:32
  He's just brilliant. He's so great.
• 54:37
  This. It got.
• 54:38
  OK, compare this crowd of people to the crowd we had on Calefrax
• 54:44
  going. You know what they say?
• 54:46
  Yeah, yeah. I figured of the ones in the
• 54:49
  horns. Of Nimon as well.
• 54:52
  The five old men scodos shall rise.
• 54:59
  It's it's you know and. It is still only about 10
• 55:01
  extras, but it just the way it's shot.
• 55:04
  Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of thought
• 55:07
  put. Into this.
• 55:07
  He's scrum race first, isn't it? Yeah, and he.
• 55:11
  He hits the ground running. This is for this, Lacopoulos.
• 55:14
  Kinder and Earth shock, Yeah, I mean.
• 55:17
  That's four. Great.
• 55:18
  Stories. And if only he could have done
• 55:20
  that Dalek story as well. I know it was such a loss.
• 55:23
  I think he would have, really. Made that dynamic and then what
• 55:27
  might? He have done in season 21.
• 55:31
  Imagine him directing. Frontiers.
• 55:33
  Oh, yes. Or.
• 55:35
  Directing Warriors? Of the deep, sorry.
• 55:39
  I was. Busy.
• 55:40
  I was a bit. The guard there by Vash.
• 55:42
  He's got his shirt mostly open, yeah.
• 55:47
  Why? Isn't a deep yeah.
• 55:48
  Because it's basically. Roberts.
• 55:50
  Out Peter. Grim waiting.
• 55:52
  Brilliant action. Sequences.
• 55:54
  Shouldn't he be taking on the Five Doctors?
• 55:56
  Yeah, exactly. I mean, that could have been
• 56:00
  very. Exciting.
• 56:01
  Like, don't get me wrong, I think The Five Doctors is
• 56:03
  wonderful, but it's not. Excitingly, direct plod a bit,
• 56:08
  doesn't it? Well, it's.
• 56:09
  Exciting when J&T directs a bit of it.
• 56:13
  Oh, the idea of using the. TARDIS as a battering.
• 56:16
  Yeah, it's great all. Really great ideas, but it's a
• 56:20
  shame when we don't see. It going.
• 56:21
  Down a hill, isn't it? It's just all those things.
• 56:24
  Yeah. Oh, your.
• 56:26
  Sister. I can feel your sister getting
• 56:27
  tense from here. They can't explore in The Cave
• 56:34
  and it is nice how? Obviously, you know, we meet the
• 56:38
  the humanoid characters immediately.
• 56:40
  We see the master at the end of episode one.
• 56:42
  The spider comes along at the end of episode 2.
• 56:45
  That's your three elements, but it's been staggered.
• 56:48
  But yes, and you don't know. What the connection is between
• 56:51
  them all I love. And at the.
• 56:54
  Moment we we still. Don't know how long they've been
• 56:57
  no game, do we? We think they might have landed
• 57:00
  recently. Yeah, and they're just sort of
• 57:01
  repairing. The ship.
• 57:02
  And then off they go again. Oh, how boring.
• 57:08
  Just opening. Up all those panels and then,
• 57:10
  yeah, and that's what they do. Plastic bits?
• 57:13
  Oh, I'd say. You know what?
• 57:14
  When I work in a shop, don't I? Yeah, so things on A.
• 57:17
  Shelf over. And then fill.
• 57:19
  It back up, but what size? The spaceship corridors are
• 57:23
  interestingly designed. Well, they're, well, they're
• 57:26
  well. Designed so you can shoot them
• 57:28
  at different angles and it feels massive.
• 57:31
  I can't play 7. Five from this, you know.
• 57:33
  You know where they go. Go along the the the tunnel
• 57:36
  between the the main. What's the main set called?
• 57:39
  Oh, the the flight. Deck, yeah.
• 57:41
  The flight deck and. To the.
• 57:42
  Teleport, yeah. And they've got their little
• 57:45
  hexagonal corridors. It reminds me of that.
• 57:48
  Oh, the Mars child. This is such a lovely
• 57:50
  performance because it's without dialogue, so it's all done via
• 57:53
  body language and of course. Tom.
• 57:56
  Could charm to everyone knew how much he could charm children so
• 58:01
  yeah. Do you remember him in horns
• 58:03
  and? Iron.
• 58:03
  Yeah. When he comes in, he gives him a
• 58:05
  sweet and then he tussles his hair.
• 58:08
  Do you ever? Notice that all those.
• 58:09
  Kids look very androgynous and who doesn't know?
• 58:12
  I can't. Have their bloods OK.
• 58:15
  It was the 70s. Oh look, they've knocked.
• 58:18
  Tom Baker on the head and. Now they've captured the.
• 58:21
  Not good, isn't? It in a cycle something, yeah.
• 58:24
  It's in a pig net, isn't it? Oh, this is your bit?
• 58:27
  Now this is it. Go and turn it up so we can all
• 58:29
  hear it. Oh, wait.
• 58:32
  Oh, and there's. The sound effect of the Mars
• 58:35
  chart, which is pigs reversed and treated.
• 58:40
  There's there was a great interview with Dick Mills on the
• 58:43
  radio around the time this went out that I remember hearing
• 58:46
  where he said, oh, I had to go to a farm and record all these
• 58:49
  sounds. Here we go.
• 58:51
  Lovely ceremony and all. Designed to beguile.
• 58:55
  And Laszle people look at those massive tunics, the spotlights
• 59:01
  coming on around them. Wait, did you hear the music?
• 59:07
  Now it goes. Here he comes.
• 59:14
  Gobbling his way he's. Amazing.
• 59:17
  Fuck me. I love you so much.
• 59:21
  But one thing I I've again. Noticed as coming back to these
• 59:25
  stories as an adult that they've basically taken away Canine's
• 59:29
  personality in this season. Yeah, well, we talked about
• 59:32
  this. Didn't.
• 59:33
  We in Armageddon factor. He had so much to do, yeah.
• 59:35
  And here it's just written. As a computer, and it's such a
• 59:38
  shame canine. Folks has been decapitated.
• 59:46
  Oh. Oh, that's awful.
• 59:49
  And Lala. Looks so upset.
• 59:51
  Honestly, there's no redemption. For that Marsh Marsh man now.
• 59:56
  Dear Oh dear. Oh, that's.
• 59:59
  Right. So then they.
• 1:00:00
  The Marsh men want to turn the tiles into a battery around, but
• 1:00:03
  that's right what they all bugger off.
• 1:00:04
  Because they're scared. Because they're scared of the
• 1:00:05
  spiders. Yeah.
• 1:00:07
  Why would they be scared of the spiders though?
• 1:00:10
  Something to do with evolution, probably.
• 1:00:12
  OK, perhaps it's. Well, lots of people are scared
• 1:00:15
  of spiders. Well, they've got to clear out
• 1:00:17
  The Cave, so the. Spider can jump at Lala Ward,
• 1:00:20
  start saying Romana and stop saying Lala Ward.
• 1:00:23
  Am I so lovely? Costumes.
• 1:00:25
  He's got in. This one, it's because the
• 1:00:26
  actress has such. Presence.
• 1:00:28
  Yeah. That you can't help.
• 1:00:29
  I lose. Because I feel like Lala Ward
• 1:00:31
  and Romana are quite they're probably very similar,
• 1:00:34
  aristocratic as each other. Well, she's the late, honourable
• 1:00:37
  sight, Sarah Ward, that's true. Yeah, she is gorgeous.
• 1:00:43
  She says that she's not glamorous like Mary.
• 1:00:46
  She's glamorous in a different way from Mary.
• 1:00:48
  Tam Absolutely glamorous. Yeah, she's not like, not sort
• 1:00:53
  of, you know, movie starlet. No, she's not Mary Tam.
• 1:00:56
  But you put her in in those. That sort of Red Riding gear
• 1:01:00
  from Horns of Naiman. Basically every costume.
• 1:01:04
  Apart from the nightmare of Eden where her arms are locked off.
• 1:01:10
  He goes, oh, I love. I've said this line over and
• 1:01:13
  over. Why can't people just get along
• 1:01:15
  just for once? Terribly nice to each other.
• 1:01:19
  It's a good point. Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  I mean, look at that, Look at Do you see the hexagons?
• 1:01:26
  On the floor there as well, Yeah, it's.
• 1:01:28
  Just all attention to detail. There's just visual.
• 1:01:32
  Interest in every. Shot Oh, look, he's just turned
• 1:01:35
  their society upside down. Yeah, just by saying.
• 1:01:41
  So. Do they?
• 1:01:42
  Do they bring them into? The star line and when the mists
• 1:01:44
  come up just in case they find the control, the.
• 1:01:48
  The Marshmen. Yeah, and again.
• 1:01:51
  It's it's for the good of the community.
• 1:01:56
  Yeah, we've heard that, Yeah. Exactly.
• 1:01:58
  And we still hear. That Rishi Sunak.
• 1:02:02
  It's, yeah. And it's what you do to keep
• 1:02:04
  your population under control. So you tell them things that
• 1:02:07
  become the truth, even though they're not the truth and
• 1:02:11
  people. Believe it.
• 1:02:12
  Because they're. Told by someone in authority.
• 1:02:14
  In authority. It's a very clever piece of
• 1:02:17
  writing. Dexter's a really.
• 1:02:20
  Interesting character. Morally suspect character.
• 1:02:23
  I know. But he sort of played quite
• 1:02:25
  amiably and then he's there and smiling, Vivis doing Vivis
• 1:02:30
  section. Brandishing that.
• 1:02:31
  Scalpel saying I'm now going to do an examination of its brain.
• 1:02:36
  Well, here we go. OK.
• 1:02:40
  So a lot of a. Lot of the success of this
• 1:02:42
  cliffhanger I think comes down to Paddy Kingsland.
• 1:02:46
  Yeah. Yeah, because, look, they are.
• 1:02:49
  They're not. They're not pretty rubbery,
• 1:02:51
  aren't they? But but also the editing as well
• 1:02:55
  and you've got little jump. Scares where they pop out and
• 1:02:58
  you can see as. A young child because.
• 1:03:01
  My sister is a year and a half younger than me.
• 1:03:04
  I don't think the yellow wives help.
• 1:03:06
  Those glowing eyes. Oh look.
• 1:03:10
  At it, oh oh, straight towards the camera.
• 1:03:11
  As well, so my. Sister who is a.
• 1:03:15
  Year and a half younger than me would have seen this and this
• 1:03:18
  really scared her because she didn't like spiders.
• 1:03:20
  Anyway, it's nice to know the Doctor Who was.
• 1:03:23
  Doing this job back in the day though, you know I do like the.
• 1:03:26
  Ones that are scuttling. Around on the floor you can just
• 1:03:28
  sort of see them moving and just the jeopardy of.
• 1:03:31
  Adric taking the TARDIS off. Oh yeah, I just.
• 1:03:35
  Can I say? It.
• 1:03:36
  And I think I pulled the wrong lever.
• 1:03:38
  I. Think I pulled the wrong lever?
• 1:03:41
  Oh, twat. Oh, you.
• 1:03:48
  Know. He's not terrible in this, but.
• 1:03:51
  That's the worst thing, though. Is he's kind of OK in this?
• 1:03:54
  I think this is one of his best showings.
• 1:03:55
  What do you think is his worst or or no Soraka?
• 1:04:00
  Here we go. I'll come back to that question.
• 1:04:05
  She falls. Down Jolly nicely doesn't.
• 1:04:07
  She look at that gentle, very graceful.
• 1:04:10
  Very great. Well, she's a late honourable
• 1:04:12
  she is late. Oh no, she's still.
• 1:04:14
  With us? She's the Honourable Sarah Ward
• 1:04:19
  good cliffhanger. That's two of.
• 1:04:20
  Two, absolutely. Now then, so have we.
• 1:04:25
  Pushed the plot on a lot in that episode.
• 1:04:28
  I think we've. Explored the star line.
• 1:04:30
  I think we've. Explored the plot, but we
• 1:04:33
  haven't pushed it. I think Part 3 pushes it on.
• 1:04:36
  There's just a lot of exposition.
• 1:04:38
  In Part 3, isn't there yeah this episode?
• 1:04:41
  Is about more scene setting and getting the Doctor into place.
• 1:04:45
  I think that's the end of the location work, isn't?
• 1:04:47
  It it's all inside from now on. Yeah, I think you're right
• 1:04:50
  actually. Isn't.
• 1:04:51
  It yeah, I think that was a savvy move.
• 1:04:53
  I think it's always a savvy move to put the money up front, get
• 1:04:57
  them while. They're hot, absolutely.
• 1:05:00
  Wow. Sigh.
• 1:05:00
  I'm. Not going to.
• 1:05:03
  Say well, you hold my hand. Again, you're already holding my
• 1:05:06
  hand. I am.
• 1:05:09
  Not listeners. Yes.
• 1:05:12
  No, he's not. He's not.
• 1:05:14
  Are you? Ready for part three or do you
• 1:05:17
  want? I'm going.
• 1:05:17
  To stop with A Tale of Youth for part oh.
• 1:05:20
  I'm excited. The.
• 1:05:55
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for.
• 1:05:56
  Doing quicker. Quicker, quicker, Oh, a hamster
• 1:06:01
  with a blunt pen. Knife The Doctor Who Commentary
• 1:06:04
  Podcast, which I've now lost count of how many times I've
• 1:06:07
  said that in my life. It's quite a lot.
• 1:06:09
  I'm hello. We're packed for part three of
• 1:06:11
  Full Circle. Hello, Joe.
• 1:06:13
  Hello. Did you tell Dexter that?
• 1:06:15
  I did. Oh, good.
• 1:06:17
  Is he still with us? Only just, not for much.
• 1:06:20
  Longer no. Horrible.
• 1:06:22
  Horrible. Man, boy.
• 1:06:24
  Some would say it's. Just desserts, you know.
• 1:06:27
  Absolutely. Collin Baker.
• 1:06:28
  Certainly would. So I believe you have.
• 1:06:31
  A A Tale of Youth tour with me at the beginning of this episode
• 1:06:36
  well. As I said, this was a story that
• 1:06:38
  I had on cassettes. So we recorded the soundtrack to
• 1:06:41
  this and me and my sister used to play a game in the living
• 1:06:45
  room where we would throw all the cushions on the floor and
• 1:06:50
  then we would play the cliffhanger to Part 2 at the
• 1:06:55
  start of Part 3 where you can hear all the spiders scuttling
• 1:06:58
  around and we'd have to jump from all the cushions so the
• 1:07:02
  spiders didn't get us. Was that a real game?
• 1:07:05
  It's a real. Game we used to play.
• 1:07:07
  With the tape play, that is amazing.
• 1:07:10
  We only used to play Hot Lava I. Mean.
• 1:07:13
  It's pretty. Much the same as hot lava, only
• 1:07:15
  with with spiders. Fun with marsh spiders, you.
• 1:07:18
  Know my God. Glowing eyes jump up.
• 1:07:22
  They're only spiders. Let's play a game with it now.
• 1:07:24
  Oh no. I've already spilled water in
• 1:07:26
  your carpet. I don't want to break your sofa
• 1:07:27
  as well. Well, look.
• 1:07:31
  Sigh. I believe there is a fair amount
• 1:07:35
  of exposition there. It is.
• 1:07:37
  We're going to get a lot of information from us here, so.
• 1:07:40
  You pay attention, I'm. Paying attention because I need
• 1:07:42
  you to absorb it and then put it across to me in.
• 1:07:45
  A way that I'll. Understand.
• 1:07:47
  OK, that's fine. My audio cassettes of this story
• 1:07:53
  eventually broke, but Part 3 for some reason survived.
• 1:07:56
  I've managed to copy Part 3 before the tape disintegrated,
• 1:08:00
  so they got chewed up because they were played so often.
• 1:08:03
  So part three I know incredibly well, so we're OK Did you have
• 1:08:07
  tape recordings of all stories? No.
• 1:08:11
  Bizarrely, I only ever did this one, and then you never did any
• 1:08:15
  others. I did a few.
• 1:08:17
  Later on. So when I got a copy of The
• 1:08:20
  Green Death, which was lent to me by a school friend of my
• 1:08:23
  sister's, I had to give the tape back.
• 1:08:26
  So I recorded that. So my dad, as I said, had the
• 1:08:29
  stereo connected to to the TV so I could record the soundtrack to
• 1:08:33
  that. And I did a couple so that I
• 1:08:36
  could listen to them when I was a teenager.
• 1:08:37
  And so I can't remember which one.
• 1:08:41
  So I did, but of Robots of Death was one.
• 1:08:46
  Robots of death was definitely one.
• 1:08:47
  I was going to say what the hell did state of?
• 1:08:50
  Decay ever do to you? Well, I had the.
• 1:08:52
  Talking book of. Of State of Decay, which was
• 1:08:55
  Doctor Who state. Of Decay Read by Tom Baker, Yes,
• 1:09:00
  the Doctor and his two. Companions Romana and K9 were
• 1:09:03
  lost. It wasn't the first, no, because
• 1:09:06
  they didn't know that Adric was. There, at that point.
• 1:09:08
  In fact, does he barely feature in that book?
• 1:09:12
  He's like K9. He doesn't feature a lot, so
• 1:09:15
  very strange, isn't it? So yeah.
• 1:09:17
  So but yeah, bizarrely, we never fought to do this.
• 1:09:20
  And actually we got a video recorder record a fairly early.
• 1:09:24
  So we got one ready for. Must have been around Christmas
• 1:09:29
  1982. So I'm from Arkham Infinity
• 1:09:34
  onwards. I was recording each night's
• 1:09:36
  episode, watching it, recording the next episode over that one
• 1:09:41
  because we only had a few tapes. Oh yes, I've heard your tales
• 1:09:43
  of. Tragedy, Yeah, so losing the
• 1:09:45
  endings. Of stories.
• 1:09:47
  And then I was allowed. To keep the five doctors,
• 1:09:50
  because that was such a special story that that was allowed to
• 1:09:52
  be kept on tape #2. So that was that's why you know
• 1:09:56
  that one is well. Exactly because I just.
• 1:09:58
  Watched and watched and watched and watched and watched that,
• 1:10:01
  OK? But so.
• 1:10:02
  This part three of. This one I know know really well
• 1:10:06
  well. There is the.
• 1:10:07
  Fact. You know that for the 60th
• 1:10:10
  celebration, I am thinking of doing something with the five
• 1:10:13
  doctors. You know, I'm going to keep it
• 1:10:14
  under my hat right? Right now.
• 1:10:16
  But basically I'm evolving. You all right?
• 1:10:18
  OK, that's I. Am very.
• 1:10:21
  Happy to be there. I can pretty much rope you into
• 1:10:23
  anything. These days, yeah, just tell.
• 1:10:25
  Me and. I'll.
• 1:10:26
  Be there well side should we head?
• 1:10:28
  Into Part 3. Let's do it and find out.
• 1:10:30
  What is all the? Mystery and Secrets of the Star
• 1:10:33
  Liner. Well, you better count me in,
• 1:10:34
  John, in. 5. 4321 Off we go, here we go.
• 1:10:45
  I can. Remember as well?
• 1:10:46
  There was. A review in SFX magazine for the
• 1:10:49
  E Space trilogy and the like. The conclusion of the review was
• 1:10:56
  this isn't just sticky back plastic up to who that you
• 1:11:01
  remember fondly and sort of pat on its head.
• 1:11:04
  This is genuinely great television and I read that
• 1:11:09
  before I watched it and I was like, oh really?
• 1:11:12
  And I just remember being blown away by the production value of
• 1:11:15
  Full Circle, State of Decay and Warriors Gate.
• 1:11:17
  It's true. And they're all.
• 1:11:21
  All brilliant in different. Ways.
• 1:11:23
  That's what I love. There's no story quite like
• 1:11:26
  Warriors Gate. Interesting.
• 1:11:28
  You know this is the. Smoothest production, isn't it?
• 1:11:30
  Yes, State of Decay went through revisions.
• 1:11:32
  Yeah, as Christopher H Bidmead and Terrace Dix battled it out.
• 1:11:36
  Yeah. And Tom Baker.
• 1:11:37
  And Lala Ward battled it out as well, or were having a
• 1:11:41
  marvellous time. Depending on what day it was.
• 1:11:43
  And then obviously Warriors Gate was an absolute mare to yeah, I
• 1:11:47
  was a mound yeah. So actually this one was quite.
• 1:11:49
  Smooth as Paul Joyce. And Graham Harper and anyone
• 1:11:53
  that was around just picked up the camera and said, well, let's
• 1:11:56
  direct this thing, you know, and I.
• 1:12:01
  In Matthew Waterhouse. 'S amazing book Blue Box Boy.
• 1:12:06
  He talks about the problems he had in the third person.
• 1:12:10
  Because he's pretentious. And he's wonderful.
• 1:12:12
  I love it. But he says about the problems
• 1:12:15
  he had with Peter Grimwade and the direction and the tensions.
• 1:12:21
  Because Peter Grimm was neurotic and difficult.
• 1:12:24
  I think you can hear it in their.
• 1:12:25
  Commentary. You know, because Waterhouse and
• 1:12:30
  Peter Moffett are both in the commentary and he's having a go
• 1:12:33
  at him in that. Yeah.
• 1:12:35
  No, no, no, Not Peter. Moffett, Peter Grimm Wade oh,
• 1:12:38
  Peter Grimm Wade oh. OK.
• 1:12:42
  Oh, do you think you fancied him?
• 1:12:44
  I think that might have. Been part of the problem here,
• 1:12:46
  because you know what? He's all.
• 1:12:47
  Very pretty inside that, Those dreadful pyjamas and all that,
• 1:12:51
  No, But you see him in a leather jacket.
• 1:12:52
  Back in the day, he was very cute.
• 1:12:55
  Matthew Ward. He's got a little snub nose.
• 1:12:57
  Excuse me, that camera just. Glided effortlessly across that
• 1:13:00
  corner. There's some dynamism even in
• 1:13:03
  these bloody TARDIS. Scenes.
• 1:13:06
  In my. Audio recording in that scene
• 1:13:08
  where about Adric saying, I don't know, I think we're
• 1:13:11
  travelling, You can hear me saying, I think they're going to
• 1:13:13
  Gallifrey. I've been.
• 1:13:16
  Paying attention to what was. Going on, none of this survived.
• 1:13:20
  No, and you can't hear my dad. Singing along with the theme
• 1:13:23
  tune when he came in and and things like that also we can.
• 1:13:28
  We can sell these. We can market these things now,
• 1:13:30
  you know, OK. So the.
• 1:13:33
  Doctor is signing up. Yeah, Look at the looks, Tom.
• 1:13:37
  'S giving him. That's a bit of good, good side
• 1:13:39
  eye going on there. And he's he's immediately.
• 1:13:44
  Realised they're summing up, yeah, and he's working it out.
• 1:13:49
  I did. You know the bit where he?
• 1:13:50
  Obviously he gets so angry and he has to go to the side and
• 1:13:53
  then he goes it's been. Ready for years.
• 1:13:55
  And then he tears out the. Files, doesn't he?
• 1:13:58
  And you'll. See this panel.
• 1:14:00
  Underneath, the star drive is ready to go.
• 1:14:02
  Yeah. I think.
• 1:14:04
  Actually, this is the episode. With all the big drama it is,
• 1:14:07
  yeah, this is the drama. The the confrontations.
• 1:14:10
  Yeah. Which is quite good for a Part
• 1:14:14
  3. Because usually that's.
• 1:14:15
  All a part four thing. So it's either running around on
• 1:14:18
  the. Spot or lots of information and
• 1:14:21
  there's quite a lot of. Running around in part 4, I
• 1:14:24
  still think there's. Drama there.
• 1:14:25
  Though because they've put a family link between Adric and
• 1:14:29
  Vos. Yeah, and there's the danger.
• 1:14:30
  Of Yeah, Don't they I. Just don't think Matthew or else
• 1:14:34
  can sell. No, sadly not.
• 1:14:36
  He looks very sad for A. 2nd And then he goes, oh, I've got this
• 1:14:39
  bit of equipment for you. I guess your.
• 1:14:42
  Fucking brother. For.
• 1:14:43
  God's sakes, you know. Never mind.
• 1:14:47
  And then he's very jolly. In stated occasion, he is
• 1:14:49
  considering he's popping. Away in the console.
• 1:14:51
  Room. I'm like, that's just because he
• 1:14:53
  can't walk. Properly on camera has this
• 1:14:56
  fella. George Baker Has he been in
• 1:14:59
  another Doctor Who story? No, he never did.
• 1:15:00
  Another Doctor Who? But and he He.
• 1:15:04
  He's sort of the lighter side. Of the Deciders, isn't he?
• 1:15:08
  And he's. Obviously Kira's dad and he's
• 1:15:11
  had to renounce her so that he could be a decider.
• 1:15:15
  Romana is covered in spiders. That's icky.
• 1:15:18
  Oh, no location work. I was wrong.
• 1:15:21
  Well, it's just. To show it's just to.
• 1:15:22
  Show that they're on their way. They're coming.
• 1:15:24
  You've. Got to keep reminding that.
• 1:15:28
  They're using CSO. As well.
• 1:15:30
  Yes, which is nice to make it look.
• 1:15:31
  Longer, Yeah. And that's great.
• 1:15:36
  Because it's really interesting the other day.
• 1:15:38
  I was watching Jim Henson's The Storyteller, right, which was
• 1:15:44
  made on like a film budget and it's all done.
• 1:15:47
  A single camera, every shot, is lit to perfection with the most
• 1:15:53
  sort of exquisite, up to date special effects you could find,
• 1:15:56
  right? And that was made, I think mid
• 1:15:59
  to late 80s. And we did have a discussion
• 1:16:03
  about. Doctor Who and how it looks so
• 1:16:05
  much better than Doctor Who, but then it it made me sit back and
• 1:16:11
  say actually what they achieved on Doctor Who when it was on
• 1:16:15
  100th of the budget, the speeds they would get.
• 1:16:19
  Through. These stories in the studio,
• 1:16:21
  that's what Rob Valentine said, the.
• 1:16:22
  Amount of Doctor Who they made compared to storytellers only
• 1:16:26
  like 8 episodes and they were filmed over like a month, you
• 1:16:29
  know, and they're making 28 episodes.
• 1:16:31
  Here to this quality. Always got a lovely hairy chest.
• 1:16:35
  What's his name? I don't know but.
• 1:16:37
  He's got his. His flap open on his shirt on
• 1:16:40
  purpose, doesn't he? Oh, this is this is like on what
• 1:16:43
  he's saying. Romana, Romana and.
• 1:16:48
  It's great. I'll.
• 1:16:49
  Bewildered all the kids when they come out.
• 1:16:54
  You think after the first or second.
• 1:16:55
  Time. We just tear his way in there.
• 1:16:57
  Where is she? See, that's nice as well, isn't
• 1:17:03
  you? Got Kira and Logan.
• 1:17:06
  Who are father and daughter? Thank you.
• 1:17:10
  So those family. Elements.
• 1:17:12
  Yeah, it's nice. It that is all the way through
• 1:17:15
  season 18, isn't it? Yes, you've got Nyssa and her
• 1:17:18
  father. You've got Mina and.
• 1:17:20
  Pangol and Morrick. Although that's turned out to be
• 1:17:24
  a. Face.
• 1:17:24
  Yeah. False family.
• 1:17:26
  Link, doesn't it? Is there any family in Megloss?
• 1:17:30
  I don't think there is state of. Decay is all the peasants,
• 1:17:34
  though. Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 1:17:35
  Yeah, it's Ivo and his son. He's taking away his son.
• 1:17:39
  Warriors Kate. There isn't Keeper Track, and
• 1:17:41
  there definitely is. And Tegan and her.
• 1:17:44
  Auntie and those those are sort of all the.
• 1:17:46
  Emotional moments because someone always ends up dying,
• 1:17:48
  don't they? They always lose their son.
• 1:17:50
  End up dying. Auntie Vanessa ends up dying.
• 1:17:52
  Vash ends up dying. So are they made family members
• 1:17:55
  specifically for the purposes of creating some drama?
• 1:17:59
  This is a great bit of music. As well when he comes out here.
• 1:18:05
  I think that case set would. Benefit from being shot on film,
• 1:18:08
  yes, but their film work has been extraordinary in this, so I
• 1:18:12
  won't complain too much. Oh, that's right.
• 1:18:17
  So they do. They do some.
• 1:18:18
  Experiments. I don't know.
• 1:18:19
  They do experiments on the spider.
• 1:18:21
  Obviously, Dexter does the experiment on the Mars child.
• 1:18:26
  And it's interesting. Because if that.
• 1:18:28
  Didn't happen, Yeah. Then we wouldn't get our twist.
• 1:18:33
  No, exactly. So it's.
• 1:18:34
  Because it moves the plot along and it it basically.
• 1:18:38
  Even the Doctor has a terrible reaction to it.
• 1:18:41
  That's the missing piece of the puzzle.
• 1:18:43
  So it kind of. Having a morally.
• 1:18:45
  Ambiguous character like Dexter in this prevents the Doctor from
• 1:18:49
  having to do something appalling.
• 1:18:51
  Exactly in order for the plot to make sense.
• 1:18:56
  Yeah, I mean, what? And means I've also got the
• 1:18:59
  mystery of what's happening to Romana.
• 1:19:01
  So we've just had this scene where the Doctor's gone to
• 1:19:03
  collect her. So she's she's conscious and
• 1:19:05
  talking, but she doesn't know who the Doctor is.
• 1:19:09
  Who are you? Yeah.
• 1:19:10
  And that's really. Eerie because, yeah.
• 1:19:15
  Or just because she should know. Who he is so?
• 1:19:19
  As a child, that was really, I think.
• 1:19:21
  Don't you get this? Scary, colourful veins on her
• 1:19:24
  face. That's really creepy.
• 1:19:26
  And she gives. One of the most phenomenal
• 1:19:29
  screams in the whole of Doctor Who when the.
• 1:19:32
  Marshalls. Being hacked up?
• 1:19:34
  God, yeah. They love their TARDIS scenes.
• 1:19:38
  They do, don't they? But that was a lovely.
• 1:19:40
  Shot from the interior door, looking into the console room.
• 1:19:44
  To be fair, you didn't. Need to have that shot.
• 1:19:46
  I could have just come in this room, but there's a sense of
• 1:19:49
  going from one place. Yes, exactly.
• 1:19:51
  To another. Yeah, and to be fair, Doctor Who
• 1:19:56
  has been doing extended TARDIS things way back to season one.
• 1:19:59
  Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of those when we
• 1:20:02
  did the Web Planet. Remember those?
• 1:20:03
  Yeah, they're in Netflix. I think he's in there for. 2.
• 1:20:06
  Two episodes couches that come down from the.
• 1:20:08
  Wall Yeah, It's all like we haven't.
• 1:20:11
  Seen. Other sort of restrooms and
• 1:20:15
  bedrooms in the TARDIS before it's so interesting that he.
• 1:20:19
  Can't show the appropriate amount of sort of sensual
• 1:20:23
  concern. He just taps her, doesn't he?
• 1:20:27
  Because. Some other Doctors would, but
• 1:20:29
  Tom isn't that kind of doctor and he he set that up and this
• 1:20:35
  is someone you think he cares really deeply for because you
• 1:20:39
  can see it. And I know some of that is real
• 1:20:43
  life leaking over into that, but he's still.
• 1:20:47
  Nowadays. That it'd.
• 1:20:48
  Be all over the Companion, wouldn't it?
• 1:20:50
  It's just that and. That for Tom's Doctor, is a huge
• 1:20:54
  amount of emotion. Shooting for a screen, yeah.
• 1:20:56
  Lovely, we were saying. That in scenes of death.
• 1:20:59
  War. It just adds a bit of texture.
• 1:21:02
  You've got a bit of camera movement in a scene that would
• 1:21:05
  be very static otherwise. Three decide.
• 1:21:10
  Oh no. It's not the three decide 2
• 1:21:11
  deciders and Dexter oh, he's basically saying can I go ahead
• 1:21:14
  and do this And he's got the. Permission, yeah.
• 1:21:19
  But Ney Fred knows. Yeah.
• 1:21:24
  So does he want to share the? Secret.
• 1:21:25
  I don't know. It's.
• 1:21:27
  Interesting, isn't it? Because that might the the
• 1:21:30
  burden see the Mars child there. With the veins, with that strong
• 1:21:34
  light on it, that looks like a creature, well, as much as these
• 1:21:38
  things can. I what I really like.
• 1:21:42
  In James Bree's performance is that you've got moments like
• 1:21:46
  this where he's obviously troubled and.
• 1:21:50
  But also he. Turns on the leadership bit when
• 1:21:54
  when the scrutiny's on him, but I do love it when he's like.
• 1:21:57
  He goes for that whole rigmarole of like, you know, you've
• 1:22:00
  dissipated orders. There will be no punishment,
• 1:22:05
  yeah. It is great and that again it's
• 1:22:16
  all about the. Ceremony.
• 1:22:17
  And then being above everyone else.
• 1:22:20
  Look at this shot now, yeah. The camera moves through the
• 1:22:24
  crowd, pass up over the kids. You takes in the whole set.
• 1:22:33
  Joe. I wonder if grim way's sky and.
• 1:22:34
  You know what? I can't make this a little bit
• 1:22:35
  better than a bit cinematic. Because it does.
• 1:22:39
  Odd cookie. Have you ever seen him
• 1:22:41
  interview? Yeah, he's, he's very intense.
• 1:22:43
  Blind. Yes.
• 1:22:44
  Very full of nervous. Energy.
• 1:22:46
  Yeah, but. And apparently that was on the
• 1:22:47
  set. As well, there's a very funny.
• 1:22:50
  Scene where he's trying. To placate Beryl Reed, you know
• 1:22:53
  I've been here. All day.
• 1:22:54
  It's not all of this in the movies.
• 1:22:56
  Oh, darling, darling, we'll be going in a minute, you know.
• 1:23:03
  But again, you're shooting up at.
• 1:23:04
  Them so they look more powerful. And shooting down.
• 1:23:10
  On. The kids at.
• 1:23:12
  What point? Did you realise?
• 1:23:16
  Doctor Who had a smaller. Budget than other shows?
• 1:23:20
  Oh, not till I was a teenager. So what was the point of Thing
• 1:23:23
  looked? Like when when was.
• 1:23:24
  Your first bad. Doctor Who story or like, oh,
• 1:23:27
  that wasn't as good as I thought, you know?
• 1:23:28
  Yeah, that that moment you have when you're like a teenager.
• 1:23:32
  Happiness Patrol. Was he really cheap?
• 1:23:36
  Looked so cheap. Was that was the 1st.
• 1:23:38
  Time. So you went.
• 1:23:39
  Through all of Trial of a Time Lord Season 22 discerning,
• 1:23:43
  we've. Got to talk about this.
• 1:23:45
  Sorry, but this is Tom at his most ferocious, he says.
• 1:23:51
  What is it that's not? Scientific curiosity is cold
• 1:23:53
  blooded murder. It's great.
• 1:23:57
  Yeah, Dexter doesn't care. Does he?
• 1:23:59
  And then you cut from the marshmallow, open his eyes to
• 1:24:02
  Lala, water in her eyes and you've got the link then.
• 1:24:05
  Between them and here. She goes, I mean.
• 1:24:09
  Listen to this screen. That's that's a that's.
• 1:24:14
  A. Proper.
• 1:24:17
  Primal screen, that is. The only thing that spoils?
• 1:24:21
  This scene is, I think, Matthew Walters looks.
• 1:24:23
  He's not quite sure why he's there.
• 1:24:24
  No, he looks a bit confused. By.
• 1:24:27
  It all oh. I'm my mum watching this scene.
• 1:24:30
  As he smashed up the scene going, oh, this is a bit
• 1:24:33
  violent, isn't it? And it is.
• 1:24:36
  He's strangled. Dexter.
• 1:24:39
  To he was going to kill. Him.
• 1:24:40
  Yeah, that's it. They love the grim Wade has as.
• 1:24:44
  As does a similar scene in Kinder, doesn't he?
• 1:24:47
  That's right, Yeah, when he has Hindle.
• 1:24:48
  Smashing up a set. As well, I think he really knew
• 1:24:50
  how to get the drama across and it's just this little bit of
• 1:24:53
  poignancy where. He sees the Doctor on the screen
• 1:24:56
  and that's why he's always. Also, I'm no I'm laughing, but
• 1:25:00
  it's. There's there's a.
• 1:25:03
  There's a sort of tragic irony to that, isn't it?
• 1:25:05
  The one person that's been kind to him and he doesn't understand
• 1:25:09
  And then? He screams.
• 1:25:16
  This scene now. Tom Baker.
• 1:25:18
  Angry. Get out of the way, everybody.
• 1:25:21
  You're all in trouble. Look.
• 1:25:22
  At that look. Not an alibi, deciders.
• 1:25:33
  He does look resplendent. He does.
• 1:25:34
  Doesn't it? And suddenly.
• 1:25:36
  It fits him again, yeah. Whereas.
• 1:25:39
  It sort of dwarfed him I. Think when he was ill in State
• 1:25:43
  of Decay and Megalos. Here he's filling it again, and
• 1:25:47
  it looks marvellous. He's there.
• 1:25:51
  He's literally. I'm going to blame somebody for
• 1:25:54
  this. But it's the the.
• 1:25:58
  Way, he angrily throws. Those folders out of the way
• 1:26:03
  round round. So we're in this shit now,
• 1:26:14
  aren't we? This Starliner isn't going
• 1:26:20
  anywhere. It's been really for years.
• 1:26:33
  How? Centuries.
• 1:26:33
  So yeah, not just years. Wow, the green button,
• 1:26:42
  gentlemen. But also it's interesting.
• 1:26:46
  That Logan then sides with the Doctor against the other two and
• 1:26:50
  he's now on attack as well. They've been duped.
• 1:26:53
  Haven't they? They've all been made monks off.
• 1:26:57
  And that's what's so wonderful is.
• 1:26:59
  They're so fucking arrogant, yes, and all they lack is the
• 1:27:04
  one vital piece. Of knowledge, and that's
• 1:27:06
  wonderful. Because suddenly it.
• 1:27:10
  Makes them. Poignant as well.
• 1:27:14
  I swear there's a. A critique on authority figures
• 1:27:18
  here, though. Oh, absolutely.
• 1:27:19
  Because they're. All.
• 1:27:20
  Pumping themselves up and it's very interesting that Niefred
• 1:27:27
  says earlier on in the stories that that Logan is actually the
• 1:27:30
  most respected person in the community above everyone else,
• 1:27:35
  and that's why they want to siding with the Doctor, yeah.
• 1:27:38
  And he's taking. Yeah, he could take this whole
• 1:27:40
  civilisation down. No one knows how to pilot.
• 1:27:46
  This ship, the Doctor's face. But it's such a great.
• 1:27:51
  Twist. Yeah, and.
• 1:27:53
  It's. An interesting way of telling a
• 1:27:56
  story. Because Doctor Who.
• 1:27:58
  Because it doesn't usually come from like, shock.
• 1:28:00
  Concepts like that. It's usually false jeopardy.
• 1:28:03
  And when it does, shock. Like, do you remember?
• 1:28:05
  The pirate planet. When he realises the full scale
• 1:28:08
  of the monstrosity of that technology, it's great.
• 1:28:13
  Every time the show does that, it just doesn't do it.
• 1:28:15
  No, usually. It's, you know, kill them.
• 1:28:18
  And. We haven't got.
• 1:28:22
  A A cliffhanger in this story where it's Jeopardy?
• 1:28:26
  No. The next cliffhangers.
• 1:28:28
  Lala Ward. Sorry, Romana.
• 1:28:30
  Opening the door, the doors and letting them in.
• 1:28:33
  And it's not a kill the. Moment it's not.
• 1:28:36
  It's the drug, the suspense. Is to come.
• 1:28:37
  Yeah, you know. EW.
• 1:28:41
  Those spider. Guts look very like a.
• 1:28:42
  Sponge to me, Shredded Wheat isn't.
• 1:28:46
  It, Yes, shredded. Wheat.
• 1:28:48
  It's nasty. But now OK.
• 1:28:53
  I'm going to ask you, though, because I think some people
• 1:28:55
  would say the doctor just playing around with a
• 1:28:58
  stethoscope, not stethoscope. What's it called?
• 1:28:59
  Microscope. Thank you, Microscope, for a
• 1:29:02
  couple of minutes now figuring out the plot.
• 1:29:04
  Well, that's not the most exciting Doctor Who's ever been.
• 1:29:07
  No, but it's. It's needed.
• 1:29:16
  That's another thing as. Well, that happens in Keeper of
• 1:29:20
  Trocan, which says the tree mass.
• 1:29:22
  And he says, Oh no, no, only oh you could die with your honour.
• 1:29:25
  Intact. Only the consoles know that.
• 1:29:28
  Information. There's a lot of familiar tropes
• 1:29:31
  on this, isn't there? And you don't think about them.
• 1:29:34
  For why? No, because.
• 1:29:36
  This is quite. A clinically told story, whereas
• 1:29:39
  Keeper of Trocan is sort of lyrically told, isn't it?
• 1:29:46
  Whereas Warrior's gate is just. Hypnotically it is state of.
• 1:29:50
  Decay. Operatically.
• 1:29:52
  Told Megloss Pamper Panter. Mimically told Leisure Hive.
• 1:29:57
  Visually told, Stylish. Yeah.
• 1:30:00
  Oh, look at the state of Romanas.
• 1:30:01
  Room. Oh, what dirty bitch look.
• 1:30:03
  At the state of it even though. Oh, look at the.
• 1:30:08
  The lamp to suggest there's a ceiling.
• 1:30:10
  That's clear. Wonderful, but.
• 1:30:12
  Again, it's because she smashed the room up, because the Marsh
• 1:30:19
  child has smashed the lab up. So it's that.
• 1:30:23
  We're making that link, yeah. And she's going downstairs here.
• 1:30:28
  Again, is making the nice level, yeah.
• 1:30:30
  Vast. And they're proper industrial
• 1:30:32
  stairs, which I like. Yeah, this is really.
• 1:30:36
  Nice because. It is definitely the dangers to
• 1:30:38
  come, yeah, rather than the danger is now.
• 1:30:43
  And it lives. Up to its promise because we get
• 1:30:45
  a whole episode of them A tearing their way through,
• 1:30:50
  though this is poor. This is Waistcoat from.
• 1:30:54
  Nightmare of Eden ripped in half.
• 1:30:57
  Oh, broken image translator, So he steals one later.
• 1:31:04
  Cheeky little. Rascal She's going to do.
• 1:31:11
  She's going to open. That door and.
• 1:31:12
  Let him in. You never did answer my
• 1:31:16
  question, you know. I never did, did I about.
• 1:31:19
  Matthew Waterhouse. When you think he what's his
• 1:31:22
  worst and what's his best performance, I always.
• 1:31:27
  Think of the he's. Never around when you want him
• 1:31:31
  as one of his worst, so the visitation is the worst.
• 1:31:34
  But is it actually fall to? Doomsday, because no one's good
• 1:31:37
  in fall to doomsday. Could you pass stereo and
• 1:31:40
  chloride? Please.
• 1:31:43
  Giga, give me the Tardis. Key No.
• 1:31:50
  And his best. I think his best.
• 1:31:52
  Might be Earthshot. I think it might be Lookopolis.
• 1:31:57
  You know, he's very good in Lookopolis.
• 1:31:59
  Universe and there's. Something about him?
• 1:32:03
  Just him and Tom. Well, plus that sequence where
• 1:32:06
  he hides. Under the bike.
• 1:32:10
  I think when he and Tom are. Alone.
• 1:32:13
  He UPS his game yes or as sorry as much as he as much.
• 1:32:17
  As he's. Actually.
• 1:32:18
  Possible. Yeah.
• 1:32:19
  And I. Do.
• 1:32:20
  Think he's good in? This, I think he's a bit steward
• 1:32:23
  in State of Decay. Yes, I think.
• 1:32:24
  I'm sorry, Tom. Lady.
• 1:32:26
  One of my lots died for you already.
• 1:32:29
  Yeah, I'll say one's. Enough.
• 1:32:32
  First night. Nerves.
• 1:32:34
  Maybe first one in front of the camera, he suddenly realised
• 1:32:39
  he's a lead in a show that he loves and he's worked out that
• 1:32:44
  Tom Baker is a monster. He's not getting on with Lala
• 1:32:47
  Ward. He's in trouble with everyone.
• 1:32:48
  He's not being looked after and it does sound like.
• 1:32:52
  When you read that blue box, wait, it was a toxic
• 1:32:54
  environment. Sounds like it was Which.
• 1:32:56
  Sarah Sutton and Janet Fielding. Both say as well, don't they,
• 1:33:00
  That things weren't great? No, And they were.
• 1:33:02
  Coming in after Lala had gone well, sorry.
• 1:33:06
  Are you ready? For Matthew Wardhouse to not
• 1:33:09
  emote as his brother dies in episode 4.
• 1:33:14
  Yep, I am and I'm. Going to say.
• 1:33:17
  Contrary to something you said earlier about there's a lot of
• 1:33:19
  running around episode four. I think it's a really strong.
• 1:33:22
  I think it is. I think this is.
• 1:33:24
  Very strongly plotted story throughout, yeah.
• 1:33:27
  OK, well, let's do it. Let's do it.
• 1:34:04
  A hamster with a blump pen knife for.
• 1:34:05
  Doing quicker, quicker, quicker. Welcome back to.
• 1:34:12
  A hamster with a blood penknife. The Doctor Who Commentary
• 1:34:16
  Podcast. I didn't realise this episode.
• 1:34:19
  Was being started by Dalek. That's not a Dalek.
• 1:34:24
  It is I, James Bree. I once.
• 1:34:31
  Wrote an article. For For a Fancy, which was 10
• 1:34:37
  funky facts about James Bree. I wish I could remember funky
• 1:34:41
  facts. Yeah, I can't remember why.
• 1:34:42
  They were funky. Facts Probably because it was
• 1:34:44
  the 90s, but. I Remember Me and.
• 1:34:47
  My friend Richard absolutely howling at that because we loved
• 1:34:50
  James Breed, but I can't remember what they were, or I
• 1:34:53
  remember one was the time every episode of the War Games was
• 1:34:59
  under running massively. So David Maloney asked James
• 1:35:03
  Breed if he wouldn't mind stretching it.
• 1:35:05
  No, no, we wake them all up. We wouldn't mind stretching out
• 1:35:08
  the pronunciation of every single word, he said.
• 1:35:14
  What? A stupid fool.
• 1:35:16
  You are I'll. Tell you what you never.
• 1:35:22
  Forget him, Do you? You never do although.
• 1:35:24
  You know, it's so funny when. Mark did it for two or two,
• 1:35:26
  yeah. Yes, Sarah absolutely fell about
• 1:35:29
  at that performance and Mark hated it.
• 1:35:32
  Oh, very strange taste when it comes to dogs who you know.
• 1:35:35
  Well, I'm learning this, I mean. Anyone who doesn't like the
• 1:35:37
  Graham Williams era, he's very mark, he's very good in.
• 1:35:40
  Bed though. Oh.
• 1:35:42
  Sorry, I shouldn't say. Well, I wouldn't know.
• 1:35:47
  I should hope not. On that note.
• 1:35:51
  Would you care to? Skip into Episode 4 of or Part
• 1:35:54
  Four. Sorry of Full circle before I I
• 1:35:56
  do. This I I have a question for you
• 1:36:00
  from who from? Fraser who, well.
• 1:36:02
  Fraser who? Who else would ask us lots of
• 1:36:05
  questions? Tofers will be along when
• 1:36:07
  they've. Emptied this.
• 1:36:11
  He's a says Some of the questions he's asked we've
• 1:36:15
  answered already, but this is a really interesting one.
• 1:36:18
  Why do you think this story isn't held in higher regard?
• 1:36:24
  I think that's a really. Good point.
• 1:36:25
  Yes. Because of this season, I think
• 1:36:29
  this would fall sort of mid to bottom of the pack because the
• 1:36:34
  season is so strong. I think there are so many
• 1:36:36
  memorable stories in it. You remember what I said?
• 1:36:40
  At the beginning of this. Commentary that this story is
• 1:36:43
  very competent, yes, competently told, very competently directed,
• 1:36:47
  acted the works. Competent.
• 1:36:52
  It's not classic, is it? No, it's not.
• 1:36:55
  Outstanding. Although there are some
• 1:36:58
  outstanding moments, overall, it's not.
• 1:37:03
  Yeah, I think it because it's it doesn't have a massive super
• 1:37:06
  villain. Like I don't Genesis or the
• 1:37:08
  Dali. No, it doesn't have a.
• 1:37:10
  It doesn't have a stand out villain.
• 1:37:12
  Or a scary monster like. Seeds of doom, You know, Like
• 1:37:17
  it's all very good, yes, but very good.
• 1:37:20
  Doesn't get noticed. See, I I wouldn't like.
• 1:37:22
  If I was doing my top 100 and whatever it is now 250 Doctor
• 1:37:27
  Who's, this would probably hit somewhere in the middle, I think
• 1:37:31
  middle to just sort of edging towards the top half, but
• 1:37:36
  probably somewhere around 100, you know, interesting.
• 1:37:39
  Isn't it because I I always rate this season extra highly because
• 1:37:46
  I don't think it gets enough love and I love genuinely love
• 1:37:50
  all the stories this year and but if I was to put them in
• 1:37:55
  order, which I don't. Think I could do because.
• 1:37:59
  I love them all, but for different reasons.
• 1:38:02
  I don't know where any of this would come.
• 1:38:04
  I This would be in the top half of Doctor Who for me,
• 1:38:09
  definitely, and probably quite top top half, but I do wonder.
• 1:38:16
  Whether that's a. Lot of nostalgia, which is very
• 1:38:20
  difficult to get away from with Doctor Who because it's been
• 1:38:24
  such a big part of my life. But actually, is this one of the
• 1:38:28
  most averagely average stories there is?
• 1:38:34
  I don't know, I don't think. It's average.
• 1:38:36
  No, because it's not average. It's definitely above average.
• 1:38:40
  It's just too well. Made to be able, but I know what
• 1:38:42
  you're saying is this one of the best mid range stores, yes, yes
• 1:38:47
  it is definitely, yeah. If we were rating.
• 1:38:50
  This though, in terms of wet bums coming out of water, and
• 1:38:56
  that's right. In the top it is the number one.
• 1:38:58
  Story I can't. Think of any other examples.
• 1:39:02
  There's a few other lovely bums, yeah, but not wet men.
• 1:39:05
  In Earthshop. Yeah, there's some good bums.
• 1:39:07
  They're. Covered in tin.
• 1:39:08
  Foil, but they're. Very, yeah.
• 1:39:10
  You and Pete admire. Those back in the back in the
• 1:39:13
  day, didn't he admire as many a bum?
• 1:39:15
  You know. Hello Pete, does he have?
• 1:39:19
  Any more questions? Before we go in.
• 1:39:22
  Well, of course. He does because.
• 1:39:24
  It's Fraser. Come on and hit me with another
• 1:39:26
  one. Should canine.
• 1:39:28
  Have been written out. Before this story and saved the
• 1:39:30
  humiliation of being reduced to a head on a stick that.
• 1:39:35
  Is. A great point.
• 1:39:36
  Do you know what he'd You know what he does.
• 1:39:39
  Make some good points. Phrase.
• 1:39:40
  I don't say it too often, you know.
• 1:39:41
  Don't say very clever Saudony. It's a tough one because I.
• 1:39:47
  Wouldn't. I wouldn't want to lose any John
• 1:39:49
  Leeson performances and I'm glad he came back.
• 1:39:54
  But you're right, he is a bit of a cypher this year and he is
• 1:39:58
  abused terribly. But I really.
• 1:40:01
  Like the image of the master man having the head as a trophy and.
• 1:40:08
  Carrying round on. His stick.
• 1:40:09
  You know when he has his mental breakdown.
• 1:40:11
  In Warrior's Gate, you know, Yeah, contracting.
• 1:40:13
  A warning. Warning.
• 1:40:15
  I love all of that stuff. Especially when he gets kicked
• 1:40:18
  by the fella from round on the park.
• 1:40:24
  And goes but I. I I wouldn't.
• 1:40:26
  Lose a story? Really.
• 1:40:27
  No, I would not at all. And he's had a he's had his hero
• 1:40:31
  moments in this story, as well as getting his head knocked off.
• 1:40:35
  How could he ask you that question?
• 1:40:37
  After you said that tale of youth about having your fabulous
• 1:40:41
  canine on a string, you know you think of 656 year old Syhart
• 1:40:47
  right? Now imagine someone asking you
• 1:40:49
  that question. Should Canine leave the series?
• 1:40:53
  Honestly. OK, on that note.
• 1:40:59
  Let's. Go to four if he says there's
• 1:41:01
  any more. Than robbery to snob, marry,
• 1:41:04
  avoid, oh. Can I have that one?
• 1:41:05
  OK. Come on, snob.
• 1:41:07
  Marry get bitten by a funky mind controlling melon spider.
• 1:41:11
  Oh, he's so funny. Dexter.
• 1:41:16
  Oh. Logan.
• 1:41:19
  Oh, a marsh. Man.
• 1:41:21
  They're not one. Good person.
• 1:41:22
  To snog there. If we just said Lala Ward, I'll
• 1:41:24
  be there like a shark. George Baker's Logan.
• 1:41:27
  'S not. I think you'd have.
• 1:41:29
  To marry him. I'm going to I'm.
• 1:41:31
  Going to snog the marsh man, OK, I'm going to marry.
• 1:41:34
  Logan. Because he seems, yeah, he does.
• 1:41:36
  Stable sort of. Fella avoid.
• 1:41:38
  Dexteration. You don't know what he's going
• 1:41:40
  to be doing on you while you're asleep.
• 1:41:41
  Yeah, come at me with a bloody scalpel.
• 1:41:43
  Is what you're doing. Yeah, OK Is that Are we done?
• 1:41:46
  What does this set? What does setting this story in
• 1:41:49
  E Space add to it? Yeah, we've covered that.
• 1:41:52
  We have. Yeah, sorry phrase not a.
• 1:41:53
  Great deal if I'm honest it. Could be set in end space?
• 1:41:56
  Absolutely. And still tell the same story,
• 1:41:59
  but it's more. The bigger it's as we said in
• 1:42:03
  episode one, it's setting the biggest scene, isn't it?
• 1:42:06
  It's the only one that's essential.
• 1:42:08
  In E Space is or is gay, I would say.
• 1:42:12
  Oh, should we? Go into part 4.
• 1:42:13
  Let's go into. Part 4, Fraser.
• 1:42:14
  Thank you for the question. Thank you.
• 1:42:15
  Very much, I'm sure. More.
• 1:42:17
  Will go and enjoy your Toby, yes.
• 1:42:22
  Right, here we go with part 4. Then it'll be come with me.
• 1:42:25
  Now you know he will. OK, in.
• 1:42:27
  Five or something, Yeah. Oh, will you press play and
• 1:42:30
  I'll. Ask you OK.
• 1:42:32
  In 54321 Come on Blu-ray And here we go.
• 1:42:37
  Do you want you know when somebody?
• 1:42:39
  Says something. Enough times so you start to
• 1:42:41
  believe it's true. I believe you have to do
• 1:42:42
  something 40 odd times for it to be true.
• 1:42:47
  Well, Fraser said that you've liked Terminus more than 40
• 1:42:50
  times. I was starting to think it's.
• 1:42:52
  True. Is it true?
• 1:42:54
  No, no, it's not. It's.
• 1:42:56
  Him who loves Terminus. Honestly, this is what it's
• 1:42:58
  like. It's like he's starting to warp
• 1:43:00
  my mind. Yes.
• 1:43:01
  He did the same thing with the. Dominators.
• 1:43:03
  He did. Wow.
• 1:43:04
  This is Fraser. Isn't it?
• 1:43:05
  And then we did a commentary where he's.
• 1:43:07
  Spent five episodes saying nice things about it.
• 1:43:09
  What's that about? Oh, it's very funny though.
• 1:43:12
  Oh, here we go. Down the stairs, Let the Marsh
• 1:43:14
  minutes. Lovely green boots.
• 1:43:17
  Lovely green boots. This is fashion watch now, yeah.
• 1:43:21
  And just a hint of petticoat. Under the bottom of the the
• 1:43:25
  skirt. That's nice.
• 1:43:26
  Simon Hart. What has happened to?
• 1:43:29
  You. Petticoats, indeed.
• 1:43:31
  I like that. Coat.
• 1:43:32
  I like Romana. 'S costume in this one Are we
• 1:43:34
  under, running or over? Running because I can't tell if
• 1:43:36
  it's a long reprise on it. It's quite short actually, isn't
• 1:43:38
  it? Yeah, it's not.
• 1:43:40
  Yeah, because you're just about to open the doors.
• 1:43:42
  So we're not. She looks fairly swift.
• 1:43:45
  Do you know what? I'm absolutely.
• 1:43:47
  Going to say I think Matthew Waterhouse gives his best
• 1:43:50
  performances when he's alone with Tom Baker because there he
• 1:43:54
  looked like he knew what he was doing in that scene he's.
• 1:43:58
  Yeah, he's such. A weird choice.
• 1:44:00
  Oh yes, get the dry ice machine out.
• 1:44:05
  I love a bit of dry ice, don't they?
• 1:44:07
  Yeah, it's very What is Miss Fall outside?
• 1:44:09
  Oh yeah, of course it is. When the mist falls.
• 1:44:14
  See, that's very of like sort of ancient myth.
• 1:44:16
  It is, yeah. And in the book, there's a
• 1:44:21
  whole. Poem about mist fall and sort of
• 1:44:25
  that's grown up as part of their mythology that they they say to
• 1:44:28
  each other now. We've had the answer spelt out
• 1:44:33
  to us now, but not in dialogue. She's been bitten by the spider,
• 1:44:38
  which has taken her over. The Marshmen have come in, so
• 1:44:41
  she's got a special she's linked.
• 1:44:43
  So there's something that links. All those three things, and.
• 1:44:48
  It's not. I don't think it's ever quite
• 1:44:49
  spelt out. No, no, the Doctor does.
• 1:44:52
  He says from Marsh Child. Yes, but it's not spider to
• 1:44:56
  marshmen to see this panel on the wall.
• 1:44:58
  Here, yeah. That.
• 1:45:00
  Is part of the teleport. Control from the Liberator, I
• 1:45:04
  see. Yeah.
• 1:45:05
  When? It was.
• 1:45:06
  When the console was broken up, it's little switches after
• 1:45:10
  season three. So who's pillaging?
• 1:45:12
  It's? Resources from the BBCI don't
• 1:45:14
  blame her for doing that, no, But to go back to this.
• 1:45:17
  It's the relationship between Romana and the Marshmen isn't
• 1:45:22
  spelt out in dialogue, it's spelt out in action.
• 1:45:25
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:45:27
  But, like, literally, the pieces have been put down.
• 1:45:31
  Yeah, So if you're a savvy viewer, you'll see, OK, she was
• 1:45:35
  bitten by the spider. She's got an affinity with the
• 1:45:37
  Marsh men. Something links those three
• 1:45:40
  things together. Oh, there's Tylos dying.
• 1:45:42
  Oh, that's sad. I think they do.
• 1:45:46
  Based under siege here. Really.
• 1:45:48
  Well, yes, it's nice. Well, it's.
• 1:45:49
  Because it feels like there's a lot.
• 1:45:51
  Of Marshmen, because you've got some attacking the Great Hall,
• 1:45:54
  some in the corridors, some in the and there are only 6
• 1:45:57
  costumes. But because they're he's very
• 1:46:00
  cleverly putting them in different locations, yeah.
• 1:46:04
  Like I was saying in. The Robots of Death commentary
• 1:46:08
  last night. I think the death of a base
• 1:46:10
  under Siege story is where you can leave the base, Yes, So a
• 1:46:14
  lot. Of those trout and.
• 1:46:16
  Stories. They head off into the
• 1:46:17
  Himalayas, yeah. Or they go into Antarctica, you
• 1:46:21
  know, in the ice world. And when View from the deep.
• 1:46:24
  In episode three, they head back to the TARDIS to do a few.
• 1:46:26
  So it's not. We're under siege in.
• 1:46:29
  Robots of death, you. Never.
• 1:46:30
  Leave the sand miner to the threats.
• 1:46:32
  Was that And in this episode four, we never leave the
• 1:46:35
  Starlight. And because you've got quite a
• 1:46:40
  number of extras for Doctor Who, and you've seen them all the way
• 1:46:43
  through, and it's the same faces cropping up when the violence
• 1:46:46
  comes to those people, although you don't know them, know them,
• 1:46:50
  you, you recognise the people because you've built the
• 1:46:53
  relationship up. Do you think that?
• 1:46:56
  Nefred had to die. I think that's quite.
• 1:46:59
  Sad I. Would love for these three
• 1:47:01
  useless bunch going off in the star liner together, but I think
• 1:47:05
  he probably. Does because I think.
• 1:47:09
  Logan will be the. Person who leads them, yeah.
• 1:47:14
  He's been set. Up as yeah, he's been set up as
• 1:47:16
  that and he. Can't.
• 1:47:17
  Can't do that. If nee Fred is there, he's
• 1:47:20
  basically the rational. One, isn't he?
• 1:47:22
  I think what you've got here is you've got the three from
• 1:47:26
  Carnival of Monsters, haven't you?
• 1:47:27
  Aurum is the skin Sail character.
• 1:47:33
  Plettrac is neef Red and. There isn't a Callic, is there?
• 1:47:37
  Oh, there's not an evil one, is there?
• 1:47:39
  Maybe. Logan secretly takes over.
• 1:47:42
  Once. Once.
• 1:47:43
  They're up in the air. Oh, he uses canine his head as a
• 1:47:47
  weapon here, doesn't he? Just to.
• 1:47:48
  Scare. Them away.
• 1:47:53
  And it's nice bit of work. Nice bit of business from Tom.
• 1:47:56
  Do you know what's really? Interesting as well.
• 1:47:58
  Is in the Tom Baker years and in the Blu-ray behind the sofa sets
• 1:48:05
  where Tom is forced to watch his own time in the show.
• 1:48:11
  He's very complimentary. Offseason 18 No, he wasn't at
• 1:48:15
  the time. No, but he behind.
• 1:48:17
  I remember watching those behind. 70s going.
• 1:48:19
  This is really good, I remember saying.
• 1:48:21
  Oh, I'd like to see the. Cassette of that one, yeah, a
• 1:48:24
  leisure hive, wasn't it? And I always remember when he
• 1:48:27
  he'd watched Full Circle and he says, oh sorry, I was just
• 1:48:29
  thinking how pretty Lala looked in that a.
• 1:48:34
  Lovely little bit of. Affection.
• 1:48:38
  See. They're quite sad on there
• 1:48:39
  because. Ty Losses is dead.
• 1:48:41
  Does Kira die? No.
• 1:48:42
  She gets away with this year. Yeah, she.
• 1:48:44
  Survives. He can't massacre all that
• 1:48:47
  she'll. Know that would be appalling,
• 1:48:48
  but. It is interesting how.
• 1:48:52
  You know, obviously he wasn't very complimentary about any of
• 1:48:54
  this at the time because he was on the way out.
• 1:48:57
  His ego was somewhere in the stratosphere and you know, he's
• 1:49:00
  generally behaving appallingly. But in retrospect, he can see
• 1:49:05
  the many strengths of this year. Oh, I love this Lala.
• 1:49:09
  Wars. So that's wiping at him.
• 1:49:11
  Well, it's sort of cat like, isn't it?
• 1:49:16
  That's the way she hugs the TARDIS.
• 1:49:18
  Yes, when she's stayed. By the.
• 1:49:20
  Tardis. He strokes it.
• 1:49:22
  And she's just sort of mimicking it.
• 1:49:25
  It's a really interesting performance.
• 1:49:30
  And she won't let any of. Them.
• 1:49:34
  She's been so far from Lady Adastra.
• 1:49:36
  Isn't she not Lady Adra? Princess Astra, Princess Astra.
• 1:49:40
  Lady address you're gonna have. A system.
• 1:49:44
  That's Harry Hilbert. You're gonna have a system file.
• 1:49:49
  Was it Pinterest? Princess.
• 1:49:51
  No, I can't get it. Princess Astra, Princess.
• 1:49:53
  Astra Lady addressed her. Who's best?
• 1:49:55
  There's only one way to find. Out fight.
• 1:49:59
  Oh my. God, imagine that bitch fight.
• 1:50:01
  Oh. Because she gets her claws.
• 1:50:03
  Out doesn't. She now, my dear.
• 1:50:05
  Oh my God. I don't want the wrong.
• 1:50:09
  I would love to see that. Fight something about two women
• 1:50:13
  going out. Yeah, I don't mean in the sexual
• 1:50:15
  way, but do you remember when Buffett?
• 1:50:17
  And faith. Oh, massive fight.
• 1:50:20
  In. Season 3 and Season 4 because
• 1:50:23
  you're waiting for. It Buffy and.
• 1:50:24
  Willow in the Magic Show. Oh, some of the best telly.
• 1:50:27
  You know have. We ever seen any two women go at
• 1:50:29
  each other in Doctor Who? I don't feel we have.
• 1:50:33
  I'm not sure we have. No.
• 1:50:36
  Oh, well, we can. Always dream.
• 1:50:40
  Oh no, they're trying to scour. The books now, Yeah.
• 1:50:42
  How can we deal with this invasion?
• 1:50:44
  Nothing, he decides. It's so rubbish.
• 1:50:48
  This is, I swear to God, this is a comment on politicians.
• 1:50:51
  Absolutely, yeah. It's just.
• 1:50:53
  What do we do do? Anything that's precipitous
• 1:50:55
  that's going? To against this rampaging.
• 1:50:57
  Whores or monsters? Oh well, we'll just stay.
• 1:51:00
  Here shall we? But two.
• 1:51:02
  Stories later, doing nothing is exactly what you've got to do.
• 1:51:07
  That's. Really true Isn't.
• 1:51:08
  It. And that's the way.
• 1:51:10
  Out and. I always found out.
• 1:51:12
  So interesting because. I thought of Tom Baker's doctor
• 1:51:15
  doing nothing, and that's what. He says do.
• 1:51:17
  Nothing. Yeah, he's really furious.
• 1:51:20
  About it Tom Baker. As the Doctor do nothing
• 1:51:23
  swinging from the chandeliers. OK.
• 1:51:27
  Oh, Vashi's going. To go in a minute, let's look at
• 1:51:30
  him one last time because he's very pretty.
• 1:51:33
  He's got that, sort of. Olive coloured skin, doesn't it?
• 1:51:37
  Some people. Are blessed.
• 1:51:39
  With not me, though. I'm a pile of ghost.
• 1:51:43
  Oh, look at that. Poor woman in the shore My
• 1:51:46
  files. Nefra tries to climb over the
• 1:51:49
  he's. Got over one section?
• 1:51:53
  Oh. No.
• 1:51:54
  Oh, and. Then he gets.
• 1:51:56
  Clubbed. So why?
• 1:51:57
  Is it 1? Touch kills people.
• 1:51:58
  They've just got like a toxic skin.
• 1:52:00
  I'm guessing so. Oh, there's.
• 1:52:03
  Bloody question marks. It's.
• 1:52:06
  Interesting. Watching this watch.
• 1:52:08
  No, I didn't notice them at all. I thought they were.
• 1:52:11
  They were OK. But it's interesting.
• 1:52:12
  Watching this season where you can see where Tom's trying to
• 1:52:16
  hide them when he can and tuck them in and obviously he's been
• 1:52:19
  told no, show them. Look at this.
• 1:52:22
  This is so. Cute.
• 1:52:24
  He see Matthew Waterhouse genuinely given some bloody
• 1:52:27
  acting because he's next to. Tom Baker.
• 1:52:31
  And yet, I think, when? Davison.
• 1:52:32
  Comes in, Matthew what? Asked, then thinks he's the,
• 1:52:36
  he's the, he's the the lead. Of this.
• 1:52:38
  Show. And so he's a bit.
• 1:52:39
  Cocky. And it just doesn't suit him at
• 1:52:42
  all. He's 18, isn't he?
• 1:52:43
  You know he can't. Steal the screen from Tom.
• 1:52:45
  Baker, Because no one can, but he can.
• 1:52:47
  From Peter. Davidson, because he's a very
• 1:52:49
  generous actor and it don't work.
• 1:52:53
  God, those scenes in force Doomsday.
• 1:52:55
  Where he's going, oh monarch, it's a marvellous frog, He's.
• 1:53:00
  Going to give us? Fine.
• 1:53:01
  Scores. This is quite sweet, isn't?
• 1:53:06
  It when, Yeah, I like these scenes.
• 1:53:08
  They're all quite. Poignant, and the fact that
• 1:53:11
  he's. He gets a a deaf line, which is
• 1:53:13
  a plot twist. We cannot return to Terradon
• 1:53:16
  because we have never. Been there, you and.
• 1:53:22
  Me could just read out the script.
• 1:53:25
  Oh dear. It's like.
• 1:53:28
  A A deaf twist. Yes, there you go.
• 1:53:32
  I'm doing. A flight for.
• 1:53:32
  Entirety thing here. They invented the exposition
• 1:53:35
  Coma. Yeah, space.
• 1:53:37
  Space. Space things, yeah.
• 1:53:40
  And. Space reasons space.
• 1:53:43
  Reasons, so we're going to say. Death twist.
• 1:53:48
  Or worse, it's it's. When the death twist doesn't You
• 1:53:51
  remember when Lee Sen Chang died?
• 1:53:52
  Oh yeah, and he doesn't even get there.
• 1:53:55
  No answer to our simple. Question.
• 1:53:57
  Typical politician. He's got blood on his head, yes.
• 1:54:02
  I'm. But.
• 1:54:04
  Even they're right, yeah. A normal, a normal 80s director
• 1:54:08
  would just point a shoe. Yeah, Grim.
• 1:54:10
  Wade came in across the set towards them very slowly.
• 1:54:14
  I know I'm pointing out like simple camera moves, but it all
• 1:54:17
  elevates. It didn't.
• 1:54:18
  Use. The camera.
• 1:54:21
  Once it was. Was there Peter Moffatt?
• 1:54:23
  It's. It's just a.
• 1:54:26
  Little bit more. Interesting to look.
• 1:54:28
  At than your average 80s Doctor Who, Yeah.
• 1:54:31
  They look at each other like. What do you mean we've never
• 1:54:33
  been there like? So who reveals the twist?
• 1:54:39
  That they. Are.
• 1:54:41
  They are the Marshmen, Tom. The Doctor does.
• 1:54:43
  Doesn't he? In a second, yeah.
• 1:54:45
  So. They're your.
• 1:54:46
  Ancestors. And you know, like.
• 1:54:50
  We've got more sort of monsters rampaging around, but they're
• 1:54:54
  not the scariest monsters in the world, and there's no big
• 1:54:57
  showdown between the Doctor and the villain.
• 1:54:59
  That's maybe that's why, because there isn't actually a.
• 1:55:03
  Villain. He's just someone doing his job,
• 1:55:06
  Yeah, And maybe. Because it is.
• 1:55:08
  Smarter than your average Doctor Who as well?
• 1:55:10
  Maybe that's it. Because it's not the usual stuff
• 1:55:13
  people people want sort of set. Pieces.
• 1:55:16
  Sort of a bit of campery. A big villain showdown.
• 1:55:21
  I haven't had much of that. Really.
• 1:55:24
  Is it quite subtle? This.
• 1:55:26
  Yeah, I think. I think that's it.
• 1:55:27
  And. Subtle always gets lost and I
• 1:55:31
  think. It probably could have been.
• 1:55:32
  Interminable with a bad director?
• 1:55:34
  Yes, Because it's so well made? Yes, exactly.
• 1:55:38
  But if you compare. This to to State of Decay, where
• 1:55:41
  you have got big villains and you do get confrontations
• 1:55:44
  between the Doctor and Orkon and you have got a big finale.
• 1:55:48
  And it's a big it's the big be honest, if I was.
• 1:55:51
  Going to my shelf, I'd pick up State of Decay, you know, all
• 1:55:56
  ready to feed hunger. You were Swarm.
• 1:56:03
  You are in the. Resting.
• 1:56:05
  Place I am Orkon. Welcome to my domain.
• 1:56:10
  I once worked. In the Bureau of.
• 1:56:12
  Ancient This is my favorite scene in the whole.
• 1:56:14
  Season you are. Wonderful.
• 1:56:17
  Sigh. Me.
• 1:56:19
  Wonderful. Yes, I suppose I am.
• 1:56:21
  Never really thought about it. You better throw that door in my
• 1:56:23
  face now. Oh, this shot of.
• 1:56:28
  Lala Ward backlit. Coming through the grill is
• 1:56:32
  great. Marvellous.
• 1:56:35
  Yeah, Luca. Bloody hell.
• 1:56:36
  She. Is.
• 1:56:37
  Terrified going. To finally.
• 1:56:40
  Get that bloody Tom. The only thing that's scarier?
• 1:56:43
  Than Tom Baker in a mood. Is Lala Ward in the mood?
• 1:56:49
  It's true. There's only one way to.
• 1:56:51
  Find out. Oh, I.
• 1:56:56
  Bet There we go. Nice.
• 1:56:58
  Graceful fall again. Oh, she's got.
• 1:57:02
  The right sort of dress. For it as well, isn't she?
• 1:57:08
  Oh, here we go. The.
• 1:57:10
  Deciders are now creeping through this ship with the two
• 1:57:12
  people that survived. And it's.
• 1:57:18
  Logan, who is in command? Yeah.
• 1:57:24
  Oh, like you've got. Vash and Adrick both.
• 1:57:28
  Using these fire extinguishers, only one of them looks
• 1:57:31
  convincing. With them, Vash is so.
• 1:57:34
  Butchy. Yeah.
• 1:57:35
  It's totally like a machine gun isn't.
• 1:57:37
  It, you know, yeah, I'm an actor, accused Pit.
• 1:57:39
  Yeah, I think. Maybe.
• 1:57:42
  Richard Willis is used to handling himself, Yeah.
• 1:57:46
  Matthew Warehouse, perhaps? A bit of inexperienced, Yeah.
• 1:57:50
  Oh. This bit in a.
• 1:57:51
  Second, where she sits up and grins this beautiful and Tom.
• 1:57:55
  Then grins his beautiful smile as well.
• 1:57:58
  You could try General Electro. Electrophoresis.
• 1:58:02
  And. I always.
• 1:58:05
  Remember, someone said. That this scene demonstrates the
• 1:58:09
  difference between season 18 and and 17, because she'd have woken
• 1:58:13
  up and said something incredibly witty in season 17.
• 1:58:19
  And 18 she's. Got a bit of technobabble, What
• 1:58:23
  would she have? Said in season seven, I.
• 1:58:25
  Don't know she has so much Gray line.
• 1:58:27
  You. Despic up a worm, it lives.
• 1:58:32
  In the power complex. What that fits?
• 1:58:36
  You may be watching the stuff too, my.
• 1:58:37
  Cylinder's running out. So.
• 1:58:41
  I'll. Sacrifice.
• 1:58:42
  Myself meaninglessly. And then?
• 1:58:44
  You've got a. Character.
• 1:58:45
  Up You're an orphan boy, and you could be a.
• 1:58:47
  Companion in Doctor. Who there is a thing about there
• 1:58:50
  is, isn't there? Yeah.
• 1:58:51
  Victoria Vicky. Well, in this season and well,
• 1:58:54
  yes. Well.
• 1:58:55
  Nissan Adric Antigua. Technically, Well, I think maybe
• 1:58:59
  Auntie Vanessa. Did bring up so your?
• 1:59:02
  Father's palm was hardly the Outback.
• 1:59:05
  My dear not resist. Perhaps if I wave a knight?
• 1:59:09
  Errand will come and rescue US. The 1980s aren't Vanessa.
• 1:59:13
  No. Knight errands.
• 1:59:15
  I love her so. I love the most.
• 1:59:17
  It's when Deacon comes out and goes in she goes, oh, she's gone
• 1:59:21
  in again. It reminds me of Kath from Kath
• 1:59:25
  and Kim. Oh man, I still think.
• 1:59:28
  We missed a. Trick not having Auntie Vanessa
• 1:59:30
  as a companion. You know she had a live.
• 1:59:33
  And I loved her. Wouldn't it?
• 1:59:34
  Well. She had a live and up time
• 1:59:36
  flight. Wouldn't she?
• 1:59:36
  A bit. What the end of those giant?
• 1:59:39
  One poos. Oh.
• 1:59:43
  No, don't die. Don't worry.
• 1:59:47
  You've got a beautiful future ahead with Kate.
• 1:59:49
  Amara. Yeah, you're going to be all
• 1:59:50
  right. What a pretty couple they must
• 1:59:53
  have been. Are there pictures of the two of
• 1:59:55
  them together? There must be somewhere.
• 1:59:57
  I'll have a look at that on the way.
• 1:59:59
  Oh, did you see how nice his bum looks?
• 2:00:03
  Oh. His.
• 2:00:04
  Brothers. Oh, Oh, no, no.
• 2:00:07
  Butt. All right, I know we're taking a
• 2:00:09
  piss, but like his brother is dying, he's trying to grab his
• 2:00:13
  hand. In terms of a script, this is
• 2:00:16
  very well done. It's just Matthew Waterhouse.
• 2:00:19
  Let's slide down a bit. Yeah, Matthew, just sort of.
• 2:00:24
  Sits there looking a bit lost. You think the Doctor would come
• 2:00:32
  for him? As well, but Tom's doctor.
• 2:00:34
  Isn't. A.
• 2:00:36
  Comforter is he. I always think of that.
• 2:00:38
  Bit in Lecopolis where he where he's just Tegan.
• 2:00:41
  I'm. I'm sorry.
• 2:00:41
  I'm so sorry. And Pat's are on the shoulder
• 2:00:44
  and then walks off. Remember Lawrence Scarman in?
• 2:00:47
  Yeah. Where there's a mark.
• 2:00:49
  Anything from. I told.
• 2:00:50
  Him not to. So to get any.
• 2:00:53
  Remark of comfort from him is is something, yeah, something.
• 2:00:57
  The. Davison does a lot better, yes.
• 2:01:00
  And in fact, Colin does really well as well.
• 2:01:02
  Yes, surprisingly. Just let them go.
• 2:01:06
  Come on. That's that's the that's it.
• 2:01:08
  Maybe that's it as well. It's the learning.
• 2:01:11
  They've learnt to let themselves out the.
• 2:01:14
  Climax of this story. Is the plot the last piece of
• 2:01:19
  the jigsaw puzzle coming together instead of like a big
• 2:01:23
  dramatic big set piece? Yeah.
• 2:01:25
  And and it is literally. Just let them go conversation,
• 2:01:28
  Yeah. So maybe that's it, but I still.
• 2:01:33
  Think it's it's very good. And this is Tom.
• 2:01:35
  Saying. Well, they'll come in and
• 2:01:37
  they'll learn how to put it back together again.
• 2:01:39
  They're your ancestors. That's the.
• 2:01:42
  Climax and that's it. That's.
• 2:01:45
  And that's where where they realised that they that's why we
• 2:01:48
  can't return to Terradon. And what's hilarious?
• 2:01:51
  Is the bill. It's going well.
• 2:01:54
  It does require some fault and we think.
• 2:01:57
  Oh, they're never. Going to take.
• 2:01:58
  Off and then you get that optimistic ending with the
• 2:02:01
  lovely music and ships going up. But you could just imagine the.
• 2:02:06
  Conversations between the two of them, Yeah, well, should we
• 2:02:09
  press the button? Do we have the right?
• 2:02:13
  Oh. Yeah, have a quick look at your
• 2:02:15
  phone again. See if Fraser came at us with
• 2:02:17
  anything else. You never know.
• 2:02:18
  You know, I can keep talking. About Logan's but.
• 2:02:21
  While you're doing that, don't worry, there is. 11.
• 2:02:24
  Story. But maybe we would.
• 2:02:25
  One more question. But maybe we'll do that at the
• 2:02:27
  end. Oh, OK.
• 2:02:28
  He did quite well by us, though. He did, didn't he?
• 2:02:30
  Just a very lost minute, yeah. But will they learn to come in?
• 2:02:35
  So that should be the ultimate. Reason as to why they should go,
• 2:02:38
  yes. So.
• 2:02:42
  They're not going to evolve again, are they?
• 2:02:44
  That's the that's the I. Think so that they've reached
• 2:02:47
  the pinnacle. So where are these useless?
• 2:02:50
  Buns. Gone in E space, then they've
• 2:02:52
  taken off. But where?
• 2:02:53
  Where are the the lands? Well, the ship is programmed.
• 2:02:56
  To find a. A planet where they can live
• 2:02:59
  because it's a colony ship, so that's what it says.
• 2:03:03
  He says this now they picked up a signal.
• 2:03:05
  You. Know come to Utopia.
• 2:03:08
  Off they went to the furnaces. They'll probably land on the.
• 2:03:11
  Vampire planet, because that's the only other planet there is.
• 2:03:15
  They'll be on the other side of it.
• 2:03:17
  They shouldn't because. Obviously.
• 2:03:19
  Oh no, you can't. They can't travel in time in E
• 2:03:21
  Space. No, they can't.
• 2:03:22
  No, I just think. So anyway, well, if they've gone
• 2:03:24
  to the future. And they're like, oh, we found
• 2:03:26
  this, this costume. What's this?
• 2:03:28
  Oh, it's one of the Decider costumes.
• 2:03:30
  Oh, they've all been drained of blood.
• 2:03:34
  Oh, this is really cute of course.
• 2:03:37
  Any writing on those files? Do you know just?
• 2:03:41
  Press those few buttons there. There you go.
• 2:03:43
  Off you go and Tom and. Lala striding off in a minute
• 2:03:47
  together, both in burgundy completely.
• 2:03:50
  Instead. Look at that.
• 2:03:51
  They're just brilliant together. The green button, gentlemen.
• 2:03:59
  That must have been a bit of. Tom, business I can imagine as
• 2:04:03
  they're doing. Policies in Parliament, you
• 2:04:04
  know, like, right, we've got to do this, we've got to sort out
• 2:04:07
  this, but it does require some support and we'll just do
• 2:04:10
  nothing. We'll have a few.
• 2:04:14
  Meetings about meetings first. You know, decide when the first
• 2:04:17
  meeting is going to be. Oh, put Kate and there we go,
• 2:04:22
  the. Greatest team back together have
• 2:04:25
  well, we're here, but. We.
• 2:04:26
  Don't realise. Yet, do we?
• 2:04:27
  No, He snuck away. He's inside her mom's bedroom.
• 2:04:30
  Exactly. She's going.
• 2:04:31
  To get a terrible shot when she. Goes to bed.
• 2:04:33
  Oh, loot. He stole that.
• 2:04:39
  He stole that. So this is the last gasp of the.
• 2:04:46
  Three of them, isn't it? Because I'm always, it's always
• 2:04:49
  Patrick after this. Yeah, well, you've.
• 2:04:51
  Got those nice scenes at the start of State of Decay when
• 2:04:54
  they're in the console room and Oh no, I actually know that.
• 2:04:57
  Is their last gasp? Isn't it where quite a techno
• 2:05:02
  copica? You've got it, Doctor.
• 2:05:03
  What's a Techno Copica? What is a techno Copica?
• 2:05:06
  Don't know. Would you say it's only?
• 2:05:08
  Rococo. No, I won't.
• 2:05:10
  I love. I love a look.
• 2:05:13
  Certainly the. State of.
• 2:05:15
  Decay They are. Deliriously.
• 2:05:18
  Absolutely. And certain ones that they're
• 2:05:20
  not deliriously in love with you.
• 2:05:22
  I'm not looking at her all right?
• 2:05:25
  I always. Find this quite an optimistic
• 2:05:27
  ending. Though yeah, it's like the
• 2:05:29
  ship's taken off. We're going to find a way home.
• 2:05:31
  Gloomy looking out at the. Scanner.
• 2:05:40
  Do. You know what?
• 2:05:44
  That felt like for the first time in ages, our actual
• 2:05:47
  commentary where we talked about stuff, I think we did out quite
• 2:05:50
  a lot. Then I think.
• 2:05:51
  Maybe because we're sitting on your sofa.
• 2:05:52
  Watching together? Yeah, that might be.
• 2:05:54
  It Imagine we've got pizza. And beer around us.
• 2:05:57
  All right, No pizza for me. I'll have the beer.
• 2:06:01
  He can't have no cheese. OK, he said.
• 2:06:05
  Rank this story with the rest of Peter Grimwades.
• 2:06:10
  Oh, because that's. That's a.
• 2:06:11
  Really hard one because he's got Lugopoulos, he's got Kinder,
• 2:06:18
  he's got Earth Shock and he's got this.
• 2:06:20
  Hang on, though, because he's no one.
• 2:06:21
  'S very specific sometimes. Is he saying we've got a rank
• 2:06:24
  them in the direction of those stories or just the stories
• 2:06:28
  overall? Well, he just says rank.
• 2:06:30
  This story with the rest of Peter Grimwades.
• 2:06:33
  So I think let's answer it from a direction, point of view.
• 2:06:37
  OK. In terms of.
• 2:06:38
  Direction. I'd say Earth Shock is probably
• 2:06:42
  his best direction. Yeah, it's certainly the.
• 2:06:45
  Pacest. It's fast.
• 2:06:46
  And. Yeah.
• 2:06:47
  And I think the last episode. Has 100 scenes or something
• 2:06:51
  absurd like that. And to do that in the BBC studio
• 2:06:55
  at the time of those massive cameras.
• 2:06:58
  So I say Earth shock. I'd probably say.
• 2:07:03
  Kinder, I'm going in reverse. Dicopoulos full circle.
• 2:07:07
  But they're all good, yes. Kinder's direction.
• 2:07:12
  Is so it's so unusual. Yeah, and I think.
• 2:07:17
  Because you've got those surreal scenes, like the bit leading up
• 2:07:21
  to the end of part three with the clocks ticking and all of
• 2:07:25
  that, and that's astonishing, this direction.
• 2:07:28
  That's that's a cliffhanger. That shouldn't work, but really
• 2:07:31
  does. And he.
• 2:07:33
  Convinced he gets in the right actors to convince like Hindle
• 2:07:38
  of his breakdown and also. I think the cliffhanger to Part
• 2:07:43
  2 where they're going to open the box and that is incredibly
• 2:07:46
  tense without. No.
• 2:07:48
  That's. Just someone opening a box but
• 2:07:51
  but then I think about those things with the.
• 2:07:52
  Watcher in Lakopoulos. Yeah, and the location.
• 2:07:55
  Work in. This.
• 2:07:56
  Yeah, and that scene. In in part one of Lakopoulos,
• 2:07:59
  where Tom comes out with the TARDIS and sees the Watcher for
• 2:08:02
  the first time. I think it's one of the most
• 2:08:04
  startlingly brilliant Doctor Who sings ever.
• 2:08:06
  Because it's all done with no dialogue.
• 2:08:09
  It's all done with Tom's acting and the moment he sees the
• 2:08:13
  Watcher and he suddenly goes almost Gray and he's he's.
• 2:08:19
  Tired and. Defeated suddenly by just by.
• 2:08:22
  And that image of the watcher from across the road just
• 2:08:26
  standing there was again, really unsettling image of my
• 2:08:31
  childhood. I can sum this up.
• 2:08:34
  OK, well, they're all. Great.
• 2:08:37
  In different ways. Yeah, he might be a.
• 2:08:39
  Complete Nutter to work with. He was a fantastic.
• 2:08:45
  Director Yes, and like we said earlier.
• 2:08:47
  Doctor Who lost something when it lost him.
• 2:08:50
  I saw Ian Levine give an interview.
• 2:08:51
  Once where he said that, you know what?
• 2:08:53
  He might have pissed off the cast, but he did right by the
• 2:08:56
  show. And it's true.
• 2:08:58
  It's absolutely true. Absolutely right.
• 2:09:02
  Well. Sorry, OK.
• 2:09:04
  I'm. Going to do.
• 2:09:04
  I think you have three reasons. Because I've got. 40. 40
• 2:09:09
  reasons. Probably.
• 2:09:10
  OK, start us off. All right, I'm going to go with
• 2:09:16
  Lala Ward because she doesn't get masses to do in this story,
• 2:09:22
  really, but she becomes absolutely central to it.
• 2:09:26
  And those her phenomenal scream, her wonderful world weary,
• 2:09:35
  absolutely sad scene at the start with Tom is is a pivotal.
• 2:09:41
  Moment in this. Season where she doesn't want to
• 2:09:44
  go, but they've got to do what's right and the whole possessed
• 2:09:51
  acting I think is some of the best.
• 2:09:54
  Actually, I think actually it's probably.
• 2:09:56
  The best possessed acting of any companion ever.
• 2:09:59
  And there's plenty of it. Yeah, there's.
• 2:10:01
  Loads more Jackie. Lane.
• 2:10:02
  Yeah. Or maybe, actually, maybe it's
• 2:10:06
  Janet Fielding actually in snake dance.
• 2:10:08
  Oh, it's a Duffy it. Is but what she does.
• 2:10:12
  Wordlessly is wonderful. I am.
• 2:10:17
  Going to say the location work in episodes one and two, which I
• 2:10:22
  think do you know, I had a conversation with Gary Russell
• 2:10:26
  and Day of the Dykes about The Tomorrow People and he said that
• 2:10:29
  he thought that the location work in The Tomorrow People is
• 2:10:32
  the best sort of location work he's ever seen on television.
• 2:10:36
  I don't think that's at all true, but I do think some of the
• 2:10:40
  best location work I can remember seeing on television in
• 2:10:44
  sort of the 70s, eighties. It's in season 18.
• 2:10:48
  I think the location work in full circle and in State of
• 2:10:53
  Decay and Lacopoulos is all like top tier and Brighton Beach.
• 2:11:01
  And Brighton Beach, it's. Very quick.
• 2:11:04
  But yeah, so. I'm going to say the.
• 2:11:06
  Location work because it's not just like a camera going on
• 2:11:11
  location. He's dressed it, he's lit it,
• 2:11:14
  and he's chosen to shoot it in an exciting way.
• 2:11:18
  Yeah, no, it's really good. It's a nice use of a location
• 2:11:22
  that they come back to quite a lot over the next few years, but
• 2:11:25
  it always, always looks good. OK, my second one, because I'm
• 2:11:31
  predictable, is Tom Baker. OK?
• 2:11:34
  Because the one of those questions that comes up on
• 2:11:38
  Twitter is what's the hill you will die on.
• 2:11:42
  And I always say the heroine will die on is that Tom Baker is
• 2:11:47
  on fire in season 18 and it never ever gets enough
• 2:11:51
  recognition. He is doing really interesting
• 2:11:55
  and different stuff with the Doctor for the first time in a
• 2:11:58
  long time. He is not coasting I'm although
• 2:12:01
  he's acting again although. I.
• 2:12:04
  As I pointed out when we did Nightmare of Eden, I don't think
• 2:12:07
  he's coasting through a lot of Season 17 in the way that people
• 2:12:10
  think he is, but this. Year he's.
• 2:12:12
  Had his buttons pressed and he's got to do as he's told, but it
• 2:12:18
  makes his doctor really there's some fire in his belly.
• 2:12:22
  There's some. Some really.
• 2:12:23
  Interesting choices and I think for me, and this might be a lot
• 2:12:28
  of nostalgia as well, I think the definitive 4th Doctor is
• 2:12:32
  seen through season 18 because you've got all the different
• 2:12:35
  aspects of his Doctor all in one.
• 2:12:38
  He's very funny. In Medgloss and State of Decay
• 2:12:42
  and he's. Like he's surprisingly funny in
• 2:12:44
  the leisure hive, which no one ever picks up on.
• 2:12:47
  Oh, it's a scarf then, yeah, but also you've got the group, the
• 2:12:51
  doomy grave moments as well. You've got the ferocious anger
• 2:12:56
  of this performance. You've got then the beaten down
• 2:13:00
  and tired Doctor at the end and it's a real, I think you've got
• 2:13:06
  every aspect of his. I think he gives his last really
• 2:13:09
  funny operatic performance in State of Decay that's very much
• 2:13:12
  like his season 17 Doctor and he's slightly less witty.
• 2:13:16
  He's very charming in Keeper of Truck.
• 2:13:18
  He is. He's in a good mood in.
• 2:13:20
  Keeper of truck and he's enjoying working with Anthony
• 2:13:22
  Ainley. Just Haunted in Lagopoulos.
• 2:13:25
  And that's something. New that we haven't seen in him
• 2:13:28
  and at the very last maybe he's saying saying to people.
• 2:13:30
  Look, I'm going. But I can do this.
• 2:13:32
  I can do this. And I don't think he ever gets
• 2:13:35
  enough credit for what he's doing.
• 2:13:36
  It's always, well, he's not doing this and he's not doing
• 2:13:40
  that. And he's hungover and he's
• 2:13:41
  tired. And yet there are aspects that
• 2:13:43
  he's not well. But he's watch him throughout
• 2:13:47
  this story. He's he's world weary at the
• 2:13:50
  start, but he's got the fire in his belly by Part 2 when he's
• 2:13:54
  there and once he's got the mystery and he's repairing the
• 2:13:58
  TARDIS and he's grinning and he's yeah, it's great, great,
• 2:14:02
  great stuff, OK? I'm going to try and be less
• 2:14:05
  predictable then and not say all of the male flesh is on this
• 2:14:09
  way. I am going to say, I am going to
• 2:14:16
  say that it was very bold to structure a story in an
• 2:14:23
  unconventional way where the big hitting moments are twists.
• 2:14:30
  In the plot. Rather than the set pieces and
• 2:14:34
  sort of big moments of drama and.
• 2:14:37
  To go back to. Phraser's question I think that
• 2:14:39
  might be why this one slips under the radar a little bit,
• 2:14:43
  but I really admire it. Do it.
• 2:14:46
  Taking that very intelligent course and and doing something a
• 2:14:50
  little less melodramatic and a little smarter.
• 2:14:54
  Good stuff. OK.
• 2:14:55
  And my. Final choice is Paddy Kingsland,
• 2:14:59
  because this is a hugely memorable score for me.
• 2:15:03
  I think because I had this, I had this story on cassette, the
• 2:15:06
  music really stood out. And I think this is what settled
• 2:15:10
  my love of Doctor Who music was listening to the different
• 2:15:13
  passages in this. So that little thing that you've
• 2:15:15
  got the TARDIS spinning in space, it's great and you've got
• 2:15:24
  the you'll stay in your lane, all right.
• 2:15:26
  That's. My job, But you've got the
• 2:15:28
  Marshmen. You've got the deciders thing.
• 2:15:38
  So he's, yeah. He's coming in.
• 2:15:41
  He's just writing. Theme is it's very theme heavy
• 2:15:44
  so that you know who you are and where, who you're seeing and
• 2:15:48
  where they are. But it's it's great and it's the
• 2:15:52
  first of a long run, because Every School by Patrick Kingston
• 2:15:56
  is really brilliant, but he will hone this in Necropolis.
• 2:16:02
  I think particularly is is probably his best.
• 2:16:04
  But I love this music. I cannot.
• 2:16:07
  Argue with any of your. Three things.
• 2:16:10
  My last thing then, is going to be.
• 2:16:17
  I'm gonna say Richard. Willis as Vash, who absolutely
• 2:16:23
  should have been Adric, but then.
• 2:16:26
  Imagine Matthew Warehouse. As Vash, I mean Jesus Christ,
• 2:16:30
  who I think he's very convincing in the role, his smoking heart.
• 2:16:36
  He is such a pretty boy. And I don't feel sad because of
• 2:16:42
  Matthew Waterhouse acting when Varsh dies.
• 2:16:44
  No, I feel sad because I like Varsh as a character and I think
• 2:16:49
  that group of kids, it's three not very good actors and one
• 2:16:56
  really good actor and he kind of salvages a lot of those scenes.
• 2:17:01
  So, Richard? Willis.
• 2:17:03
  Plus the fascinating new. Facts I learned.
• 2:17:04
  About him and Kate. Yeah, there we go.
• 2:17:06
  You're going to have to investigate.
• 2:17:07
  That now don't have kids, I don't think.
• 2:17:10
  So I don't think she. Have kids, they.
• 2:17:11
  Look, pretty kids, I say. Well, sorry, where we go next?
• 2:17:16
  Well, OK. I'm going to throw something at
• 2:17:18
  you now. Go on.
• 2:17:20
  Literally, no. No.
• 2:17:21
  No, I'm not going to throw something literally at you.
• 2:17:24
  Let's go back 10 years 10. Years from this.
• 2:17:28
  Story No, no. Let's go back. 10 years from.
• 2:17:31
  Now OK and. Let's do the.
• 2:17:34
  Day of the Doctor. Because I'm ready for a big
• 2:17:39
  hitter. OK.
• 2:17:42
  Are you ready to take that on? I absolutely am ready to.
• 2:17:45
  Take that. OK.
• 2:17:45
  OK. I'm surprised.
• 2:17:47
  No. One's no one has.
• 2:17:48
  No one has snapped that one, have they?
• 2:17:51
  You're on. OK.
• 2:17:52
  You and me or? You, me and.
• 2:17:54
  Fraser Oh, I don't know. I might need backup.
• 2:17:59
  We'll talk to him. We will. 3.
• 2:18:01
  Doctors in. 1. Story.
• 2:18:02
  Three of us in one Story, 3 hamsters in one story it.
• 2:18:05
  Could be amazing. Couldn't it could be?
• 2:18:08
  OK. But anyone?
• 2:18:09
  Starts making jokes about sizes of Sonic screwdrivers and I'm
• 2:18:13
  out of it, right? This is a family podcast.
• 2:18:18
  But there we go. There we.
• 2:18:19
  There. You didn't expect that, did you?
• 2:18:21
  I didn't. I don't normally.
• 2:18:22
  I'll say thank you for your time.
• 2:18:26
  Thank you very much for coming to my house.
• 2:18:27
  And recording a hamster, So welcome.
• 2:18:30
  Thank you very much for treating me like a Prince.
• 2:18:32
  My pleasure.