Latest / Finding God at Work / 14: The AI Future: "Machines of Loving Grace" or "A Full-Grown Man"?

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14: The AI Future: "Machines of Loving Grace" or "A Full-Grown Man"? · Finding God at Work

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  (Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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  This is Finding God at Work.
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  Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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  isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
• 0:18
  course.
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  Check it out at findinggodatwork.org.
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  Our current series is A Mysterious Business, bringing
• 0:31
  ministry and marketplace wisdom together.
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  I want to start with a question that
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  I sometimes use for discussion when I'm leading
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  workshops at churches.
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  What do you think you'll do on a
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  normal workday 10,000 years from now?
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  And the question is meant to make you
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  think a couple different things.
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  One is that you're going to be alive
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  10,000 years from now, unless Jesus tarries
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  for a very long time.
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  In the new heavens and new earth, you
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  will be actively going about your business, which
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  might literally be business.
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  So the second idea is you'll be working,
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  you'll have a job in the new heavens
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  and new earth.
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  Now we think of the new heavens and
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  new earth as a time of rest and
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  a time of celebration and it absolutely is.
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  But it's also a place of work because
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  work is something God gave to us before
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  the fall.
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  And we've talked about this in other episodes.
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  We're not going to do a deep dive
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  into like Genesis and the vision of work
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  here because we've done that in other times
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  and places.
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  But I want to think about that future,
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  right?
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  What is the future that we imagine?
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  And what is the place of humanity in
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  the future?
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  Is there still a place for the dignity
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  of doing work, of exercising creativity and agency
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  in the world?
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  I sure hope so.
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  I think that work will be different, but
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  it won't be gone.
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  And this question of the future often surfaces
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  as we think about artificial intelligence.
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  In fact, some of the leaders of artificial
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  intelligence businesses explicitly invoke this vision of the
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  future in the way that they try and
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  get people to invest in their companies.
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  So one of these leaders is a guy
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  named Dario Amadei.
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  He's the leader of or the CEO of
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  Anthropic.
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  And I actually like Mr. Amadei quite a
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  bit.
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  He's a thoughtful guy.
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  He seems to really care about the potential
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  risks of AI and is asking questions like,
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  what does it mean to be human?
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  But like you would imagine is true for
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  any CEO of an AI company.
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  He's also very techno optimistic.
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  And so I want to draw from an
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  essay that he wrote a couple of years
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  ago now.
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  This was back in October of 2024.
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  Machines of Loving Grace.
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  How AI could transform the world for better.
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  Now, it's a complex article.
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  Again, he's nuanced.
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  He talks about the potential downsides of AI,
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  but also the potential upside.
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  And his vision of the potential upside is
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  really dramatic.
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  Okay, so this is towards the end of
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  the essay.
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  He kind of summarizes what he said.
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  He says that it would be, quote, a
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  world worth fighting for.
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  If all of this really does happen over
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  five to 10 years, the defeat of most
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  diseases, the growth in biological and cognitive freedom,
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  the lifting of billions of people out of
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  poverty to share in the new technologies, a
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  renaissance of liberal democracy and human rights.
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  I suspect everyone watching it will be surprised
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  by the effect it has on them.
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  I don't mean the experience of personally benefiting
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  from all the new technologies, although that will
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  certainly be amazing.
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  I mean the experience of watching a long
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  held set of ideals materialize in front of
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  us all at once.
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  I think many will be literally moved to
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  tears by it.
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  Throughout writing this essay, I noticed an interesting
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  tension.
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  In one sense, the vision laid out here
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  is extremely radical.
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  It is not what almost anyone expects to
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  happen in the next decade and will likely
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  strike many as an absurd fantasy.
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  Some may not even consider it desirable.
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  It embodies values and political choices that not
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  everyone will agree with.
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  But at the same time, there is something
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  blindingly obvious, something overdetermined about it, as if
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  many different attempts to envision a good world
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  inevitably lead roughly here.
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  Okay, do you get what he's saying in
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  that paragraph?
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  He's saying, okay, some people might call what
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  I'm saying an absurd fantasy.
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  But on the other hand, whenever we try
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  and envision life the way it should be,
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  doesn't it kind of look like this?
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  And the this that he's describing is, what
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  if we overcame disease?
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  What if we overcame poverty?
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  What if our governance was fair and just
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  and gave opportunity to lots of different people?
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  He's saying like, if that actually suddenly happened,
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  people would be moved to tears.
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  And I agree, if that actually suddenly happened,
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  people would be moved to tears.
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  And I agree with him that when we
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  try and envision a good world, many of
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  those things are what we envision.
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  Where I disagree is that somehow AI is
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  going to make this happen.
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  That's not to say that AI couldn't be
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  involved in works of justice, in works of
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  beauty, in works of bringing democratic freedoms to
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  new places.
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  AI could be part of the puzzle, sure.
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  But the fundamental human problem is not a
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  technological one.
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  That's why I tend to not be as
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  much of a techno-optimist as many other
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  people.
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  And it's because I read the Bible, right?
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  The Bible says the fundamental human problem is
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  called sin.
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  The fundamental human problem is a matter of
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  the heart.
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  It's not actually a technological limitation.
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  It's the fact that we have this warped
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  interior character.
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  And that does damage to all of our
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  relationships, our relationship with God, our relationship with
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  each other, our relationship with the earth.
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  What we need is someone to rescue us
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  from that and to lead us into a
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  future where somehow we all learn a different
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  way of life.
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  So Amadei here, he is, he's getting so
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  close.
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  He's like, isn't there some sense that this
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  is the way the world ought to be?
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  It's like, yes, but you don't get there
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  through a new breakthrough technology.
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  You get there through the gospel of Jesus
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  Christ.
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  You get there from Jesus who came to
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  bring that kind of life to us, who
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  died and who rose again and who ascended
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  into heaven and who will bring us to
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  the glory that he now enjoys someday.
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  Okay, so I promised in our last episode
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  that I was going to explore more of
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  Pope Leo's encyclical, Magnifica Humanitas, which I will,
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  but I want to start with Ephesians chapter
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  four.
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  So just like last time, we'll start with
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  the Bible, then we'll go to the Pope.
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  And if you didn't get my little disclaimer
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  last time about how I'm not Catholic, but
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  I still love the Pope, you can go
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  back to last episode and listen to that.
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  But there's this vision in Ephesians chapter four,
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  as elsewhere in the New Testament, of Jesus'
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  ascension, as though the ascension says something really
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  important about our future as human beings.
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  So I'm going to read this longer passage
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  starting in verse seven, and then we'll talk
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  about it.
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  But grace was given to each one of
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  us according to the measure of Christ's gift.
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  Therefore it says, when he ascended on high,
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  he led a host of captives and he
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  gave gifts to men.
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  In saying he ascended, what does it mean?
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  That he also descended into the lower regions
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  of the earth.
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  He who descended is the one who also
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  ascended far above all the heavens, that he
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  might fill all things.
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  And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the
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  evangelists, the shepherds and teachers to equip the
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  saints for the work of ministry, for building
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  up the body of Christ, until we all
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  attain to the unity of the faith and
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  the knowledge of the son of God, to
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  mature manhood, to the measure of the stature
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  of the fullness of Christ, so that we
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  may no longer be children tossed to and
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  fro by the waves and carried about by
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  every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by
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  craftiness and deceitful schemes.
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  Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are
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  to grow up in every way into him
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  who is the head, into Christ, from whom
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  the whole body joined and held together by
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  every joint with which it is equipped, when
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  each part is working properly, makes the body
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  grow so that it builds itself up in
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  love.
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  And that is such a rich passage.
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  That passage has like 25 sermons packed into
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  it.
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  But just to hit the highlights here, it's
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  talking about Jesus' ascension, right?
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  And it also talks about his descent, right?
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  So even in the Apostles' Creed, we say
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  that Jesus descended to the dead.
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  It's kind of referencing this passage where Jesus,
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  he died.
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  And there's a sense in which he descended
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  to the dead, you know, in this almost
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  kind of archetypal descent to the underworld.
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  And then he rises again on the third
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  day.
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  But then eventually he ascends into heaven, the
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  place of glory, right?
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  And so it says he ascended far above
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  all the heavens that he might fill all
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  things.
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  There's a sense that when Jesus ascends to
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  heaven, he is enthroned.
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  He's in the place of full glory.
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  He's filling all things.
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  Heaven and earth now all point and find
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  their fulfillment in him.
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  And then Paul talks about the church.
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  He talks about apostles and prophets and evangelists
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  and shepherds and teachers, right?
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  He's saying that Jesus from his ruling throne
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  in heaven, filling all the heavens and the
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  earth is now working through the church.
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  And what's the point?
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  To equip the saints for the work of
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  ministry.
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  So we're equipped by all these different giftings
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  so that we can do the work of
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  God's ministry in the world, right?
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  For building up the body of Christ, a
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  reference to the church, right?
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  Until what?
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  Until we attain to the unity of the
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  faith and the knowledge of the son of
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  God to mature manhood.
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  Okay, now that's not primarily meant to be
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  like a gendered term in this passage.
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  It's talking about manhood in the sense of
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  humanity.
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  There's even a footnote on my ESV translation
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  here that says that that is more literally
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  in the Greek to a full grown man,
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  right?
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  Paul wants us to imagine that it's like
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  a human body and we're growing like a
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  human body, just like a teenager starting to
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  get whiskers on his chin, right?
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  Starting to get broader shoulders, starting to get
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  some more muscles, right?
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  And eventually it's a full grown man, right?
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  Full muscles, broad shoulders, full beard.
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  I can't still even do the full beard,
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  but I got the goatee, right?
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  And there's a transformation.
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  There's more power.
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  There's more strength.
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  There's something that happens when someone becomes an
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  adult human being, right?
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  And Paul is saying that's what's happening to
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  us as the community of God's people.
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  We are growing up into what he calls
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  the measure of the stature of the fullness
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  of Christ.
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  The life that Jesus is experiencing in heaven,
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  that's the life that we are growing up
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  into as human beings by God's grace.
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  Okay, this is a really exciting vision of
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  the future.
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  And I think it's more robust than Amadei's
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  vision of the future.
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  Amadei's, the title of his essay is Machines
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  of Loving Grace.
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  And again, it's interesting using theological language, right?
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  Machines of Loving Grace.
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  He's actually referencing a poem written by a
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  kind of techno poet named Richard Broutigan, where
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  the last line of the poem is, or
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  last couple lines, that we will be, quote,
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  all watched over by machines of loving grace.
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  There's this sense that we need something transcendent.
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  We need something full of love, full of
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  grace.
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  Absolutely.
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  But is it machines that are going to
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  give us that?
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  Is it machines?
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  No, no, no, no.
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  It's God himself who's the source of that
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  love and that grace.
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  Okay, now we're going to go to Pope
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  Leo's encyclical, and he's going to help us
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  unpack this.
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  So he talks about this as the authentic
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  more than human grace in Christian humanism.
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  Quote, the expression more than human is not
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  an exclusive domain of technological promise.
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  For centuries, the Christian tradition has maintained that
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  human beings are not confined by the boundaries
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  of their own nature, rather they are called
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  to self-transcendence, not through an escape from
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  reality or a contempt for their limitations, but
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  through their fulfillment in love.
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  Faith recognizes an openness toward the beyond, which
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  originates as a gift from God.
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  This transformation is a work of the Holy
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  Spirit.
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  Okay, you get what he's saying?
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  We didn't get fully into it with Amadei,
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  but sometimes in the AI world, right, there's
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  this idea that of transhumanism, that not only
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  will there be machines of loving grace, but
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  that human beings will become more than human
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  because of our relationship with those machines.
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  We'll become more than what we are now.
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  And Pope Leo is saying, well, yeah, we're
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  going to become more than what we are
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  now, but by the grace of God, by
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  the power of the Holy Spirit, as we
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  grow up into the fullness of the stature
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  of Christ, not by machines.
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  Again, and maybe machines will have their place
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  as they already do within human exercise of
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  gracious activity, but they're not going to be
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  the source.
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  God himself is going to be the source.
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  The fundamental problem is not a technological limitation,
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  it's the condition of the heart for which
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  we need God's forgiveness and his power for
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  new life in the Holy Spirit, that promise
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  that we are moving forward into the kind
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  of life Jesus enjoys in heaven now.
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  Okay, back to Pope Leo, drawing from an
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  earlier part of his encyclical, he kind of
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  talks about this idea of human limitation.
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  There was a little bit of that in
• 13:10
  the earlier quote, now he unpacks a little
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  bit more earlier here.
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  So he says, building the common good means
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  accepting the limits and weakness of humanity without
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  considering them an error to be corrected.
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  Today, the human desire for fullness of life
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  is at risk of being misled by deceitful
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  goals, such as the prospect of a technology
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  that promises to free us from all weakness
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  and models of wellbeing that leave behind entire
• 13:35
  populations.
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  All too often, we place our hope in
• 13:38
  unlimited upgrades and forms of progress that exacerbate
• 13:41
  inequalities and an immediate solutions incapable of healing
• 13:44
  people's wounds.
• 13:46
  As a result, while some pursue the illusion
• 13:48
  of unlimited self-assertion, many are deprived of
• 13:51
  basic necessities.
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  Okay, what is Pope Leo saying?
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  He's saying we're not going to have some
• 13:59
  major technological breakthrough that's then suddenly going to
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  free us from our limits as human beings.
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  Our limits are not a problem.
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  God created us to have limits.
• 14:07
  The body itself is limited, right?
• 14:09
  I can only be in one place at
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  a time.
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  That's a good thing.
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  God wants me to be present where I
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  am at any given time.
• 14:17
  Technology increasingly displaces us, right?
• 14:20
  I'm sitting at a certain desk, but I'm
• 14:22
  on a Zoom call thinking about some totally
• 14:24
  different location or in some third cyber location
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  that doesn't really have any correspondence to place
• 14:29
  in the world.
• 14:31
  We have limits.
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  That's not a problem.
• 14:34
  We don't need technology to free us from
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  our limits.
• 14:39
  And when technology is implemented, it often has
• 14:43
  an unequal effect.
• 14:45
  So Amadei, in his vision, he's like, it's
• 14:46
  going to help with democracy.
• 14:47
  It's going to help liberate billions of people
• 14:50
  from poverty.
• 14:51
  And again, we can hope that it's wisely
• 14:53
  used to do things like that.
• 14:55
  But by itself, technology does not tend to
• 14:57
  do that.
• 14:58
  New technological innovations follow the patterns of human
• 15:01
  sin.
• 15:02
  Just like there's already individual patterns of sin
• 15:04
  and cultural and social patterns of sin.
• 15:06
  You introduce a new technology and those all
• 15:08
  get amplified too.
• 15:09
  So that's why there's often inequality when these
• 15:12
  technological breakthroughs happen.
• 15:14
  So even as some people have access to
• 15:16
  all of these new ways of being, right,
• 15:18
  these new powers, so to speak, it leaves
• 15:21
  other people behind.
• 15:22
  And Pope Leo says, that's not good.
• 15:24
  That's not good.
• 15:24
  We shouldn't be focused on trying to upgrade
• 15:26
  humanity.
• 15:27
  We should be focused on making sure that
• 15:29
  every human being can eat three square meals
• 15:32
  a day.
• 15:33
  We should be focused on how every human
• 15:34
  being can get clean water.
• 15:35
  We should be focused on helping human beings
• 15:37
  be human, not on some ephemeral goal of
• 15:42
  transhumanism.
• 15:43
  The true transhumanism, the true more than humanity
• 15:46
  is us sharing in God's life through Jesus
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  Christ.
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  That's what we should focus on.
• 15:52
  And that, interestingly, leads us into working for
• 15:56
  equality, working for the vulnerable, slowing down to
• 15:58
  keep pace with people who might get left
• 15:59
  behind.
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  Okay, so Paul has this vision in Ephesians
• 16:05
  of us ascending to where Jesus is, that
• 16:08
  we're growing up into a mature manhood, a
• 16:12
  full-grown man.
• 16:13
  And Pope Leo is saying that that's the
• 16:15
  true transhumanism.
• 16:16
  That's what it means for us to be
• 16:17
  more than human.
• 16:19
  And we have to be careful about thinking
• 16:21
  that technology, machines are somehow going to do
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  that for us because God is the source
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  of that life.
• 16:27
  And we need to have the humility to
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  let God work out his life in us
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  in all the slow ways that that requires
• 16:35
  for us to realize who we're meant to
• 16:38
  become.
• 16:40
  But now I want to come back to
• 16:41
  the question I started with.
• 16:42
  What will you be doing for work 10
• 16:44
  ,000 years from now?
• 16:46
  Because another aspect of this is the question
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  of becoming fully mature, becoming more like Jesus,
• 16:55
  becoming more like that ascended into heaven life.
• 16:57
  What does that mean for work?
• 16:59
  Well, work is part of that life.
• 17:02
  We are meant to be workers.
• 17:04
  We are meant to exercise creativity and agency
• 17:06
  in the real world.
• 17:07
  In God's new heavens and new earth, we
• 17:09
  will still have the capacity to do that.
• 17:11
  Part of growing up into humanity, into what
• 17:14
  humanity was truly meant to be, is learning
• 17:16
  to work in true humanity, bringing humanness to
• 17:21
  our work and letting work become what work
• 17:24
  was meant to be.
• 17:25
  Work that reflects the creativity and agency of
• 17:28
  human beings.
• 17:31
  So when we think about adapting our work
• 17:36
  in the context of AI, when we think
• 17:40
  about bringing AI into our work, the church
• 17:44
  has a lot to teach the business world
• 17:46
  because the church knows what it means to
• 17:47
  be human.
• 17:49
  And so when we're applying AI, we shouldn't
• 17:51
  just be asking the question, oh, how do
• 17:52
  we make it more efficient?
• 17:54
  Or, oh, how do we make it more
• 17:55
  profitable?
• 17:56
  But how do we make it more human?
• 17:59
  How do we help this work serve human
• 18:03
  needs?
• 18:04
  And how do we bring human creativity and
• 18:06
  agency into the center of this work?
• 18:09
  Because that's where work is going long term.
• 18:11
  And so we don't want to get in
• 18:12
  the way of what God is doing with
• 18:13
  work.
• 18:13
  We want however we use technology, including AI,
• 18:16
  to serve that kind of human-centric vision
• 18:19
  of work.
• 18:22
  Okay, I get that this was a little
• 18:24
  bit abstract.
• 18:24
  We'll hopefully break this down in future episodes
• 18:26
  in a little bit more of a pragmatic
• 18:28
  way.
• 18:29
  But I want to end by just giving
• 18:30
  a kind of a question for reflection.
• 18:32
  This comes from an author named Stephen Garber.
• 18:34
  And he's got a book called Hints of
• 18:37
  Hope that's recently come out.
• 18:39
  And it's a question he's asked before too.
• 18:40
  And that's, what is the business of business?
• 18:43
  What is the business of business?
• 18:45
  What is business really for?
• 18:47
  And so whenever you're kind of making a
• 18:49
  tough decision at work, whether it's like, do
• 18:51
  we use AI for this or not?
• 18:53
  Do we hire for this position or not?
• 18:55
  Do we pursue this project or not?
• 18:57
  This can be a kind of helpful heuristic,
• 18:59
  a helpful shortcut question.
• 19:00
  What is the business of business?
• 19:01
  What is the real purpose of our business?
• 19:04
  It's not just to make money.
• 19:06
  It has to be more than that.
• 19:09
  It has to be serving humanity created in
• 19:13
  the image of God, drawing on the resources
• 19:16
  of humanity for creativity, for agency, for working
• 19:20
  God's world.
• 19:21
  So that can be just a question that
• 19:23
  helps guide those decisions.
• 19:24
  What is the business of business?
• 19:26
  What is the business of our business?
• 19:27
  Why are we really here?
• 19:29
  And are we doing our business in a
• 19:31
  way that reflects that and honors that every
• 19:33
  step of the way?
• 19:36
  Lord Jesus, thank you that you are wise,
• 19:39
  that even when these questions can be complicated
• 19:42
  and hard to grapple with, that you help
• 19:45
  us.
• 19:46
  We pray that you would help us to
• 19:47
  grow up into mature manhood, into a full
• 19:50
  -grown man, into your ascended life, that that
• 19:54
  would be the vision of the future that
• 19:55
  motivates us, and that we would be willing
• 19:57
  to live with our limitations and our real
• 20:00
  needs and honoring the real glory of your
• 20:04
  image in every human being around us.
• 20:06
  In the meantime, Jesus, do your work in
• 20:08
  us as we do our work with you.
• 20:15
  Thanks for listening.
• 20:17
  Finding God at Work is a production of
• 20:19
  Mission Central, a ministry based in Aurora, Illinois,
• 20:22
  dedicated to forming Christians for mission in everyday
• 20:24
  life.
• 20:25
  You can subscribe to the podcast wherever you
• 20:27
  listen to this episode to get 10 minutes
• 20:29
  of teaching on faith and work every Thursday.
• 20:32
  To get resources to go deeper with each
• 20:34
  podcast series, read our blog, and get info
• 20:36
  about upcoming courses on faith in the workplace,
• 20:39
  go to our website missioncentral.church.