Latest / The Capitalizing Your Life Podcast / PINCHing Innovation: Greg Sack on Property Management and Multifamily Cleaning Solutions

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PINCHing Innovation: Greg Sack on Property Management and Multifamily Cleaning Solutions · The Capitalizing Your Life Podcast

• Glenn (00:01.772) Today my guest is Greg Sack, a serial entrepreneur. Welcome, Greg. Greg Sack (00:07.216) Hi, hey Glenn Glenn (00:09.046) Yeah, so Greg, is a he's actually local to Tampa. Didn't know that until we got him on the podcast. And one thing I would say is he is started a bunch of businesses. Most of our people that we interview is mainly real estate operators, investors. And and I was introduced from a good friend to Greg He had a very interesting story and I was excited to hear from it. If you could, you could start with really how you got started. Greg Sack (00:45.821) Yeah, sure. Appreciate the intro. my background was in logistics. I got out of college, started working for Airborne Express, which no longer exists anymore. But I was up in the New York City area and fast forward, I ended up getting promoted into management, moved down to Tampa, Florida. And I found a model that really intrigued me and always wanted to be an entrepreneur, kind of always toyed with different ideas and as a sales guy would always walk into places and you'd be like, that's such a simple, brilliant idea. And I came across that here in Florida where it was really the concept of giving a local address to consumers overseas. So if you lived in Australia and you wanted, at the time it was like when the iPhones were coming Apple wouldn't sell you their iPhones. They wouldn't ship them internationally. so, know, consumers were look, they were scrambling for how do I get my hands on this thing? and so our business was created to help people have a local US address that they could ship product by products and have it shipped to. And then we would consolidate everything into one box and then we would ship it internationally to wherever they were located around the country. And because of kind of background with Airborne Express and DHL and understanding that world, was an easy transition for me. so, you know, fast forward through kind of seven years of building and growing that business when we exited, you know, the business had altered into us really working closely with the retailers themselves, online retailers selling products. Overstock was actually our biggest customer. And it was like, hey, if you showed up at Overstock's website and you were you know, Germany, the website would automatically be translated into euros. It would automatically calculate duties and taxes and shipping costs. And, you know, the carriers started finding this model appealing because I say carriers like FedEx and UPS, and ultimately we sold the business to FedEx in 2014. And so, you know, through that exit, Greg Sack (03:10.873) changed my life forever for sure. so then I was kind of like, all right, what do I do with my life? And I always loved real estate. I actually had a number of different, I guess, small scale single family home properties or apartments that I would rent out and always enjoyed renovation and things of that nature. So my business partner and I, we were like, hey, now we have all this money, like, what are we going to do with it now? And so we started Glenn (03:38.786) Yeah. Greg Sack (03:39.741) We started buying properties and again, the focus always being location, location, location. We put all of our efforts into South Tampa, specifically the plant school district here. And we started buying single family homes with this realization that, we were gonna go in and start swinging hammers and ripping walls out. And that lasted one property and we were like, what are we doing? It was like, this is awful. Here's two guys at the time, late thirties. it's like every time we left the property, we were like back pains and elbow pains and you you name it. So we finished that first property and we were like, we're not doing that again. We're definitely paying people to do this, but it spawned for us kind of the need, you know, now that we had kind of a, I guess you'd call it like a build to rent home. We had a need to rent it and we started working with property management companies Glenn (04:33.474) Yep. Greg Sack (04:39.259) We just, couldn't find anybody that would do it the way we thought it should be done. And, and I can get into those specifics if you want to hear kind of the reasonings why, but, you know, we started, so we started buying more. we started deciding that we're going to manage these ourselves, even though we didn't really want to at the time, we were like more interested in going spearfishing and doing fun stuff, but, we just kind of found. found the need. And then all of a sudden it was like through our own investments and our own property management strategies, we were just having friends and family was like, Hey, can you know my property manager sucks? Can you guys do this? And so we, we did that talk to, I talked to some of my, friends, acquaintances that were in property management and, you know, I was like, what, what advice would you give me if you were starting over Like what would you do or not do? And the very consistent theme that I heard was everybody was kind of saying, don't take clients everywhere, you know, because next thing you know, you're going to be driving an hour that way and then you got to go an hour that way and you're, you're, all over the place for, you know, showing homes and doing, doing all the stuff you need to do. And so I was like, all right, that's good advice. And again, going back to that focus on location, we just, we decided to call it plant property management, plant was, you know, for the school district. And we made a decision that we are going to keep this like a micro, micro niche focus. So for anybody that doesn't know the plant school district or South Tampa, it's probably one of the wealthiest areas in Tampa. And so, you know, our niche, because we were doing it, is, you know, we were buying single family homes that were ranging anywhere you know, $500 ,000 to a million dollars a piece. And, you know, with that, there's a lot of kind of pluses and minuses of focusing on those types of efforts, but it's certainly a different clientele and it's not what people, I think most people when they look at investing in things like this, they're looking at like, hey, where can I get the most growth? Greg Sack (06:58.909) Hey, I'm going to buy something for $50 ,000 and hope that thing turns into a $200 ,000 property someday. Can it give me some good cash flow? There's a lot of value in that. But where we were, we didn't really want to be the slumlords. We didn't really want to be focusing on that kind of a niche. Right or wrong, we did what we did. We've turned away probably more prospects or clients than we've brought on. And a lot of that's just like, needed to fit in the mold. And it's kind of like, we're gonna operate your property the exact same way we operate ours. And if you're not interested in that, that's fine. You're just not a client for us. Some of those things, like a good example of that most property management companies, require like a deposit of $350 or something like that. And it's like, well, what is that going to really repair? know, like nothing these days. mean, so it's like, so you start asking the questions. like, if the refrigerator breaks, what do you do? Well, we have to communicate with you and the back and forth. I'm like, so how long does that usually take? Glenn (08:04.684) No, nothing. Greg Sack (08:21.309) week, two weeks, you know, got to pick out a new refrigerator if we have to. And I'm like, so your tenant sitting there with no refrigerator for two weeks? I'm like, that's a horrible experience, you know? So, so for us, we're like, well, what's probably the most expensive kind of single item and refrigerator was the one we're like, well, we can get any refrigerator for under 1500 bucks. we're like, that's going to be our, our reserve, right? It's $1 And if you don't want to pay it, then cool. Just don't do business with us. But we Glenn (08:49.112) It actually makes it a little bit more of a passive investment to have good operators, people you can trust, but then also, look, don't call me unless it's over 1 ,500. Greg Sack (09:00.379) Yep, right. And that's the type of client we were looking for. And that's really what we've gotten. We even took on a few that they wanted to be involved in everything. And then they'd start questioning everything. We're like, it's just not fit. And again, it was OK. We were in a position where we didn't have to take on every single client. But fast forward to where we are today, through that experience of managing properties, I recognize a lot of the challenges with vendor management, right? So specifically, we would have issues with cleaning. Like, hey, we've got a cleaner scheduled for the third of the month, and it's the last item on the punch list, and the tenant's gonna be moving in on the fourth. And then the morning of the third, the cleaner is like, I got no car accident. I got sick, I can't come. And then it's like the scramble. Like, how do I find, you know, dialing, dialing, dialing, I need a cleaner, I need a cleaner, who can come there today? And it's like impossible to find that person. And so you end up having to go do it yourself and I'm a horrible cleaner. So anyhow, I experienced that and the property management business for me, it was never really big enough where it was really requiring full -time work for me. So I've got four small kids and I was just kind of, living my life doing that kind of on the side is kind of a side project. candidly, I was just, I keep saying this and like, felt like I was getting dumber and dumber by the day because I wasn't, I wasn't really engaged with people all that much outside of my kids. And so I just, you know, I made a decision. was like, man, I want to, I want to get myself into something else. Like I'm too young to be retired. What do I want to do? And so from that, was like, hey, you know, kind of put the feelers out. And one of my old partners at the previous business, which was called bongo, he was like, Hey, I just started this business called pinch. And it was the concept of it was like Uber, but for house cleaners. And I was like, light bulb, you know, I'm like, this is perfect. Because when you have those scenarios, like I just talked about, it's Greg Sack (11:27.387) I want to be able to send it to a hundred cleaners or more and say, who wants this job? Right? Who's available today? And it was like, boom, you know, we, we, so we, we had the app launched. I came in, I'm now the biggest investor in the, the company. And, you know, the, cool thing about it at the time was like, we averaged nine seconds for a job to get picked up. And, you know, from that, it was okay. Glenn (11:51.554) Wow. Greg Sack (11:58.459) Why is this so attractive to cleaners? And when you build a two -sided, dual -sided marketplace app like that, your first challenge is, do I have enough of the pros to do the work when a job comes in? So you spend a lot of time, like, hey, we have to have enough pros, and they have to be willing to kind of wait. Like, hey, we'll get in, we'll get registered, do this stuff, get ready. And then we have to apply marketing dollars to go out and find these clients. And so we did that. We were just getting, I mean, hundreds, thousands of cleaners every single month coming in and we weren't advertising at all. And they're like, why is it, this is amazing. Like, why is this happening? And when you, when you dive into it, you start realizing like being a cleaning company, like a small cleaning company is hard. Like it is hard to market yourself because you know, you think that the, you think that the perfect role is you know, a home that you're going to clean once a week or once every two weeks. And you're like, that's the foundation of your business. But how do you find those people, especially if you don't speak English very well, super difficult. So we just found that they were like, they're just hungry and anxious to go get new business. And fast forward, you know, a couple of years in Pinch and we kind of landed into the multifamily space again, it always comes back to real estate of some sort. We knew we wanted to get out of the B2C market. It's just so expensive, so hard. mean, I don't even think Uber makes money yet. Glenn (13:31.33) How would you actually quote a job that you can't see? Like, how does the quoting of cleaning happen? Greg Sack (13:40.349) It was all pre -priced. We pre -priced everything to be at, with all of our kind of market research, we were focusing on 10 to 15 % lower than kind of what we were finding based on square footage. Now, that did not include like MaliMades and some of those like real big franchises. Those guys priced things like outrageous. I mean outrageous. So we didn't compare those. We were looking more at the actual smaller cleaning teams that were out there. again, people were, the cleaners would complain about it because they're like, it's too low. And I'm like, then why'd you take the job? They're like, well, I wanted the business. It's like, okay, so there's a cost of sales, right? There's a cost of marketing. And then they're like, yeah, that's a good point. And I'm like, and you might be able to get that client as a long -term client every week, every month, every bi -weekly, whatever it may be. They got it, but man, being in the residential space is so hard. know, the cleaner pulled something out that we asked him to pull out and it ripped a water line and now the whole house is flooded and you're just dealing with that. People are kind of never satisfied in the B2C space. Glenn (14:54.85) How did you handle the customer service side of that when it was the, yeah, Greg Sack (14:57.885) Horribly. And that was ultimately what got us out of it. were like, the number of interactions per job, and we're making between 10 and 20 % of the revenue on the job. And it was like, it wasn't covering our costs even close. Not even close. Glenn (15:17.016) is wiping away with one bad job would take out five jobs at least. 10. Greg Sack (15:21.565) It would take out 10. Yeah, if not more. And so, you know, we recognize we're like, man, we got to move more into the B2B space. And we're like, how do we do that? you know, I own a number of Airbnbs and I was like, that's that that place, you know, that's right. Because it's like the need for cleaners is not only high, but it's it's operationally difficult because you have this small window most of the time to like get the whole thing turned So we started exploring that a little bit and then we stumbled on multifamily. And for me, like when I say multifamily, it's really, you know, apartment complexes of kind of 50 units or more is really kind of what we target. I mean, our average apartment that we work with is about 220 units. But we're like, all right, so this is the B2B space. And we found out in that market that the way that the industry operates is designed to protect them. but it creates a tremendous amount of challenges for them to acquire vendors. So what I mean by that is, you know, to go work for one of these property management companies like the Grey Stars or the Willow Bridges Asset Living of the world, you you have to have these real, real robust insurance policies, right? So they're trying to protect themselves when they've got this big property and who's going to be on there. So they have these big insurance requirements. they have these vendor management systems that they use to manage because they have so many vendors that they operate with. And so you have to pay those companies fees every time. Like most of them, it's like every time you submit an invoice, you're paying a fee. So it's almost like you're paying like a credit card fee, but there's no credit card, you know? And then third is like the payment terms are net 30. So many of them pay 30 to 60. And when you're dealing with cleaning resources, it's How many small to mid -sized businesses can afford to wait that long? They just can't. So what it did is it narrowed the industry down to like, can only work with commercial cleaning companies because they can afford the insurance and they've got constant resources that can come in and out and they're used to the net 30 payment terms, it's good. And they've experienced this horrible, horrible quality approach. Greg Sack (17:42.589) Part of that is because if you think about a commercial cleaning business, well, they want the school, the office. It's like every single day they're there. But in multifamily, you're relying on when did a tenant move out? When did they get it painted, punch list done, carpets cleaned, and then the cleaner shows up. And it's like, on average, you get about seven jobs a month. Not every day, not 30 days a month, right? So for the commercial cleaning companies, It's like second fiddle. They don't really even care about those clients. It's not a good client for them. So we're like, man, this is a great niche for us. And so that's really what we've done is we've built a platform that now we work with property management companies where they're looking to really streamline their operation. Because I go back to, if I have a hundred communities in my portfolio, I have a hundred different cleaners I work with, a hundred different turnover prices, like a one bedroom. in North Tampa and a one -bedroom in South Tampa, they're the same square footage. Like, why is the price so different? It doesn't really make sense. So we work with the property management companies to say, okay, let's get one consistent price everywhere for turnovers, one -bedroom, two -bedroom, three -bedroom. And then let's get you to the point where you're dealing with one vendor, pitch. That's it. And then we will outsource all of the actual cleaning to the local cleaning team. If that clean team that's there that you like, if they don't wanna work with Pinch, that's fine, we'll find another cleaning team. And that's like the whole vendor onboarding procedures that the property manager has to go through to find a cleaner that can check all the boxes for insurance, vendor management, payment terms, all that stuff is hard. So for us, it's like, just tell us, we're like a free recruiter form. Just tell us you need a new cleaning team. Like here in Tampa, we have over 3000. cleaners on our platform. They might be an individual cleaner, they might be a team of four, five, 10. That's kind of our niche is that kind of under 10. Once you get larger than that, you're usually have all your back office processes built out for those bigger teams. That's not really our niche, yeah. So that's kind of where we're at now. Sorry, long -winded. Glenn (20:03.512) So with the multi -family, so you're saying if they're over a certain unit count, they already have it built out, or you're saying you're looking for people that are larger operators? Greg Sack (20:15.717) No, sorry. I was talking about the cleaning companies, right? So if you're... They have... Because what we do, like we charge a fee for every cleaning job that happens. So we're the vendor, so it's our insurance. So we have insurance costs on every job. And then we're handling the scheduling, rescheduling, cancellation. So we're dealing with all that. We're just pushing it to the cleaner. Like, here's when you need to be there based on your calendar. You're good, right? You do this and then they can always decline it. We also have to deal with the back and forth there. Glenn (20:18.328) yeah, they have to build out, yeah. Glenn (20:27.65) Yeah. Yep. Greg Sack (20:45.381) And then we're also the ones that are managing all of the pricing, the fees. So if there's an extra fee on a community, like say it's an eviction and somebody has, it's like, hey, it's going to take us twice as long to do this. There's a fee. So we're the ones managing that, dealing with all the invoices going out. And then we also handle all the collections on behalf of the cleaning team. And we take a small percent to do that. What I was saying is like, you're a bigger, more commercial cleaning company, you already have the back office staff to deal with those things. Because you've gotten to a point where you're like, all right, we need this. You know, we can't operate with 20 or 30 cleaners going in all sorts of different places and not. Glenn (21:32.792) Yeah, definitely. And I was thinking about my previous job. It was at American Homes for Rent. We had 9 ,000 houses in Florida. And the amount of work the cleaners were and how many cleaners we go through. It would be like we'd have the same cleaner for like a really good cleaner. We'd roll them out. It'd be good for like a month and then we'd burn them out because we'd have like 60 turns a month at that company. Greg Sack (21:57.125) it always Glenn (22:02.712) And we have like a, I remember the efficiencies that we were focused on is to have them, the tenant move out, turn the unit and cleaned rent ready within seven days. And we, I just remember having really good cleaners and then on the 30 to 60 days, it's just like, they're just toast because there was so much to be done, like just so much. you know, like literally we'd have I'm sure they have still is like 60 turns a month. And then they're competing with the other invitation homes and all the other single family home rental companies. They are working for those guys to diversify themselves. there's just so much, yeah, there's a lot of demand for that business for sure. Greg Sack (22:52.925) Absolutely, and that's the thing is, you know, that's that's just human nature. You're going to come in, do the best you can, right? To get the job to keep the job and then all of sudden, you know things just start tailing off. We don't experience it as much because when the cleaning team really understands what the platform is, it's like you're replaceable. Right, so the platform is there to say hey property manager. If your cleaning team is not doing a great we can swap them out for somebody else. And so the cleaners are in a position where they're like, I have to keep my quality high. Cause if I don't, I know that, know, Peggy, the property manager just needs to make a phone call and I'm done. You know? So it's like that, just having that little fire behind them to say, you got to keep up, got to keep up. And you know what, and what's interesting in the multifamily space is that they, every time we place a cleaner there, that's good. the property managers jump from community to community to community, or they get promoted. Like people move more than any other industry I've ever seen. It's unreal how much they move and how fast. So what happens is, know, Peggy's over here at community A and loves this cleaner. She moves over to community B and she calls that same cleaner. She's like, come on over here. So now that cleaner just doubled their business. And then Peggy, six months later moves to another place and boom, now I've got three communities. Glenn (24:00.139) Yes. Greg Sack (24:20.797) And so, I mean, we've seen like, we have a cleaner in Charleston. She started last year with us. had four employees and she finished in December with 36. I mean, just vastly, vastly growing her business. So it's just so cool to see that happen. It's like when you get the right operators in there, there's just so much opportunity. So it's really cool to see. it's, you know, being a logistics guy. and kind of personal investor, the industry is very different than anything I've ever experienced before. Like it's hard to sell into, it's hard to get people to talk to you. It's just a different space that I'm muddling through, figuring it out. But that's what you do when you're an entrepreneur, you gotta figure Glenn (25:07.672) So how do you go about, say the company wants to pay 30 to 60 days, do you, I guess you guys just float the bill until you guys get paid to the cleaner? Is that how that works? Greg Sack (25:19.771) Yeah, we've got a couple different models. we actually pay the cleaners a little more if they're willing to take on that risk. Because some communities are great at paying. They pay every two weeks and the clean, know, we're fully transparent. We just show it to the cleaner and be like, this is when they pay, this is their average. And they can make that decision to kind of scale back a little more revenue and take on the risk. And we can still go after the communities paying and make sure they're paying on time. if we're going to be in a position where we're floating 30 to 60 days out, we're paying the cleaning teams usually 21 days after invoice, which is the day after the job. So technically, it's 22 days later. And then we're holding the float there for the rest. you got to have the capital to be able to do that and to be able to scale in that model. That's our approach so far and our ultimate goal is to even move that down so it's 14 days Glenn (26:24.568) So not to go too far back into your story, but I kind of wanted to talk to you about the Plant City or the plant. We invest in Plant City, invest in plant. Totally different locations. For people that are listening, Plant District, would say it's almost where if a house is like a $500 ,000, $600 ,000 house, it's pretty much a tear down. so how do you hold on to Greg Sack (26:37.371) Yep. Glenn (26:54.359) real estate that you might have paid for 500 or 600, at what point do you think it's a property that gets turned over or sold or what, like how do you plan on holding onto those? Greg Sack (27:06.663) So, you know, we walked in, we kind of created our own thesis. if, you know, in South Tampa, we're in this little peninsula and you can't really have more growth other than what exists today. And so houses get knocked down and they build two or they build three houses in the same lot. And, you know, our thesis was, man, this is happening everywhere. So keep in mind, we started this Glenn (27:22.124) Yeah. Yep. Greg Sack (27:35.677) 2015 so we've been doing it for about nine years now and It was like man every single ranch style home is getting torn down and you know a two -story home is being built there so We looked for certain specific things. We're like we want Ranch style homes no pool because that's just more maintenance more headaches no corner lots because you get at least in South Tampa when you start doing the math on it, start realizing that corner lots are a bad thing. know other areas people like them, but not here. So we wanted the Glenn (28:11.478) What makes it a bad thing? What's the corner lock make? Why is that a bad thing? Greg Sack (28:15.675) When you, when you actually start looking at the value of corner lots in South Tampa, they, don't sell for as high of a price as a lot inside the street. And I, my guess, pure guess here is I think it's kind of that, that postage stamp mentality. Like, Hey, if like, we have such a small amount of land here that I need to maximize my backyard as much as humanly possible. Glenn (28:27.126) I never Greg Sack (28:44.123) And when you have a corner lot, ultimately that house ends up half of that backyard is utilities and stuff and it's not livable. And then they've lost a portion of their backyard for their pool and stuff because of way the corner lot sits. That's purely my opinion. I don't know why, but we did a lot of analysis on it and it was just like, it definitely told us it was like corner lots don't sell for the same prices, everything else on the same street internally. So we look for internal lots. And then our thesis was, hey, if people are paying a premium for these lots today, what's it gonna be like in 20 or 30 years? And so we go in and we say, okay, we're gonna buy this house for half a million dollars and we're gonna put probably 100, 150 into it to make it as bulletproof as possible. even if it We might've bought it from somebody who just renovated it and they put nice laminate floors in, we rip it out. And we have learned that, you know, we do wood look tile everywhere. Every, every house that we turn over, it's like we try and do the exact same thing. It's same paint colors. It's the same tile. It's right. It's like the same type of faucets and, and know, appliances, like we're trying to make everything as cookie cutter as possible and as bulletproof as possible. And really it's served us well because we've, every single time we have floated away from our thesis, that example where we didn't put in, know, tile, it burns us. Like we had a tenant all of a sudden, they're like, Hey, something's going on. Like the woods bubbling. And it's like, we had so much water in the area that just kept seeping under the house and then there were cracks because of additions that were made. That water came up and right before we purchased it they had put the PVC laminate on top of real wood. And normally the real wood would allow the water to evaporate through it. But now that you put that PVC layer on top it's like putting plastic over top. So all of a sudden Greg Sack (31:03.015) The water had nowhere to go and so it just kept seeping into the wood, seeping into the wood. Then all of a sudden that wood just started to float up and then it was pushing the PVC up. we were like, this is brand new, we're not gonna rip it out. We know it's not our normal thesis and sure enough, what a disaster, right? So now we had to rip out all the PVC, we had to rip out all the hardwood flooring. It was a disaster. So that's why we're always like, we just gotta go in, we have to do what we do, which is just make this thing bulletproof. We want it to last, we want it to be like as non flashy as possible. And we want every time somebody walks into one of our rentals here in South Tampa for them to be like, this is really well kept. Whether it's really their style or not doesn't really matter. And that we get that all the time. Like they're like, man, I've looked at other rentals around here. And it's like, people here, they're not gonna live in squalor. Like they're just not. And so many of our renters are people that building their own home or they're renovating their own home and they just need a place for a year. And they come in and they want something that's really nice. They pay a premium for it. Glenn (32:13.196) I imagine you probably don't really deal with delinquency too often. Greg Sack (32:18.065) more than I'd like to say. Glenn (32:19.008) Really? I figured that it would just be like, everybody's paying on time. Greg Sack (32:24.773) No, you know, I mean, we've had, you you have your preconceived notions of certain people. I mean, we had a doctor and his wife was a business owner. And it was like, this is great. And they really bad credit. And I was like, it's kind of odd. So, you know, we force an extra additional security and that kind of thing. We're like, they gotta be fine, you know? And it's like the worst. mean, Glenn (32:52.47) Yes. Greg Sack (32:53.499) Destroying the place everything was broken. Everything was our problem. Everything was our fault You know the day they're supposed to move out. They didn't even have a moving truck there You know like so then they were a holdover tenant and I mean it was just you know, they ripped up carpet I mean you're like what is going on here? Like what are you doing? And so yeah, it's not always It's not always roses and you know, not at Glenn (33:18.648) Yeah, I, we had this one rental. was like we had, the American homes for rent. had this, it's called a premier, housing that we were buying. It was like houses that were like a million dollars. And this one happened to be on the water in Apollo beach, like 6 ,000 square foot house. And the first person we moved into it, the one thing that stood out to me is they had, they made like, and it was actually pretty rare to see a renter making 300, 400 ,000 a year. And This person was making it, showing it. But I looked at her bank account and had $5 ,000 in her bank account. I was just like, she's making a lot of money, but she does not have anything in savings. literally didn't pay the first, they moved in, didn't pay any rent after that. And I had left my job when I placed her and then I left and then I actually returned back to that job. And they were still in the middle of evicting them because they had a problem with the high end resident is they kind of have resources to fight to obvious. And I know that sounds really bad, but at same time it's like they'll call their attorney, they'll get somebody to drag it out. And evictions become a lot harder when you have another attorney on the other side that's, know, you know, Hey man, we signed a lease. You're supposed to pay 5 ,000 a month and you're not paying it. you know, but the attorney could work some loopholes to get Greg Sack (34:36.753) fighting it to the end. Glenn (34:46.39) We have, have one, they actually, feel like it's a resident, it's a mobile home, but they, I've actually, it's taken me about, well, I have two tenants right now. It's about, one is seven or eight months in, and then another one is about six months, but it's like they become lawyers overnight and they'll start spouting out, you know, the, Greg Sack (35:10.493) You're experiencing up plenty. Glenn (35:16.288) like laws or something that come up and it's like, how do they know all this stuff? It's like they're literally professionals. they're Greg Sack (35:22.669) You have to go check yourself. You're like, wait a second, now I need to go check the Florida statutes. Is that accurate? Yeah. Because some like to quote things that are highly inaccurate too. I give it that all the time. Yeah. Glenn (35:25.866) Exactly. But Glenn (35:32.626) Exactly. That's that's what my attorney was saying. He's like, whatever he was saying wasn't wasn't what we're doing. But so yeah, so the cleaning company is named pinch. And it's focused on, we'll say multifamily. And would you say Airbnb would would also work well with it? Is Greg Sack (35:58.549) Yeah, I mean we operate with air we do air we still do Airbnb even though it's technically kind of residential And we also work with a few single -family home property managers the key there for those folks is They can't be super tied to a cleaner and that's that's that's actually where a lot of them fail because it's like hey I have to have this cleaner because I know she's great or he's great I want it to be that person. the problem with that. we found this, like we had one over in St. Pete that we work with and he had asked his team, he's like, what is the average number of days that we wait for a unit to be ready from the time that we finish our punch? And they pulled a bunch of data and it was like, it averaged four days. And it was like, that's four days you could have had back across, you know, he's got over a thousand units. So you start doing the math and you're like, This is actually an impactful number. it was like, why are we doing that? Why don't we finish, give it to Pinch, and then the next day they will have a cleaner there. And that, right? So it's like, give it to us today. We're going to send it out to the network and say, who wants this job? And we tell the property manager is like, you can pick the price. I we've got our own price, but like, it doesn't matter if you tell us like, hey, based on what you know of that particular home, like, hey, it should be $250 to clean this. Tell us it's $250. We'll put it into the system. You we keep our percentage for all the insurance and all that other stuff. And then the cleaner sees, okay, they're going to get, you know, whatever the number is, $215 for that cleaning job. Do you want it? Yes. You know, and boom, then they've got the cleaner the next day. It's a different strategy when a lot of people are not comfortable with because they want to hold onto that one cleaner that they have that, you know, they entrust. And I get that. I've been there, but I've been burned by them a lot too. So I understand that it's like, and the burning ultimately is like it's lost revenue. Like I could have had a tendon in two, three, four days earlier and I'm not doing it simply because we want to use the same cleaner. It's like, am I working for the cleaner or am I working for myself? So it's a different approach. Glenn (38:14.328) Definitely when you get to the larger stuff, because we originally started managing, buying mobile home parks, holding onto the units, park owned homes, and there was a little small, you know, $150 AC window units that you put into the units. And then the refrigerators, and you start to add up and you're like, how many refrigerators have I bought this month at this property? And it's like probably one or two a month easily. And you're Greg Sack (38:30.898) Mm -hmm. Glenn (38:42.102) So I might make an extra premium of this much. It's like when you start to get to that scale, those four days is gonna matter a lot. Especially when it comes to efficiencies and then in the end, rate on your property. You're lowering your occupant, your vacancy. Yeah, it all comes together. Greg Sack (38:52.367) They matter a lot. Yeah, exactly. Greg Sack (39:03.101) they Greg Sack (39:07.975) Yeah, sure does. Glenn (39:10.082) Cool, so I guess where would people find you or pinch software? Greg Sack (39:17.873) Yeah, so my email is greg at pinchjob .com. We've got a couple different websites. One is called pinch .cleaning. That's really more for the multifamily operators to kind of see what we do and learn about us. And then we have pro .pinch .cleaning, which is for all the cleaning teams that are looking to work with us. Glenn (39:46.74) Awesome. Well, thanks for being on the show, Greg. Greg Sack (39:50.159) Absolutely. Thanks for having me Glenn. Appreciate it. Glenn (39:52.472) All right, thank you. Greg Sack (39:54.525) Bye bye.