Latest / Authentic Living / Resilience and Conflict in Leadership and the ROR with Linda Crockett, Joni Peddie, Treena Reilkoff & Barbara Veder

Transcript

Resilience and Conflict in Leadership and the ROR with Linda Crockett, Joni Peddie, Treena Reilkoff & Barbara Veder · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:37
  It's, Roxanne Durgesh.
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  Today, I have the honor of moderating a paneling panel on leadership.
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  And it's a space that's, I spend a lot of time and I've been fortunate to be in the same room
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  with many of these amazing women that I sit with today.
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  And today we're gonna discuss some of the things that we know about resilience and
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  conflict in leadership and some of the best practices based on the different environments
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  that my, my colleagues here, worked in.
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  So I'm gonna introduce them as best as possible.
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  And we're gonna include their buyers, which is phenomenal, which will give you a tip of what
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  they do.
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  So, Barb Veda, Barb has been in the behavioral management business for about over 30 years.
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  Barb has done a lot of research and presented international conferences on best practices
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  around, counselor education and, leadership So Barb, welcome to a panel today.
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  There's Linda Crockett, and Linda is, she was one of the founders of the full service
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  worksheet workplace bullying, and harassment services in Canada, one of the first.
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  And so Linda, thanks so much for being here today and let Linda's gonna share with us kind
• 2:05
  of her perspective and she also has a fascinating event coming up.
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  That we'd wanna chat a little bit more about.
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  Next, I have Trina Rykoff and Trina is also a resilience specialist that Trina is based out
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  of Toronto, and she's the owner of TLR solutions conflict inc.
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  And or international, presence today's, Joanie Petty, and she's in South Africa.
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  And she is an international musician specialist and also keynote speaker.
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  So everyone, welcome, and so glad to see your lovely faces day.
• 2:46
  Thank you, Roxanne.
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  Glad to be here.
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  Awesome that you can all make it.
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  So we're gonna just start off around, I would say the tempo of what's happening out there in
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  your different environments with, uncertainty and conflict.
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  So I'm just wondering, whoever feels like they they can add, their perspective.
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  What is it you're seeing out there with the speaking events or the trainings that you're
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  doing around, the the element of conflict in the workplace.
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  I don't mind putting in.
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  I've done 2 Multinational events this this week, actually.
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  One is an automotive industry, and the other is a global beverage company.
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  And I found it very interesting, both at executive level.
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  So these were directed in meetings.
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  And, this global beverage company, I'll start with them as an example.
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  What are what are we seeing out there Roxanne?
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  That's a good question.
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  Is they've bought a local South African com company?
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  So that's, really, catapulted this local South African company, 4000 people, 1000 people of
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  the global business in South Africa.
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  And it's taken into number 3 in the world.
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  I'm seeing in terms of conflict is the uncertainty and the turbulence of a merger is
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  that people are not storming.
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  So you think groups, you know, the good old taqman model that we all use in the sixties,
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  people are coming together.
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  They're forming.
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  They're trying to skip that storming.
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  So they're pushing conflict under the the And then they're going into trying to norm and
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  perform too quickly.
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  And we know it's essential that teams that they're going to be high performing.
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  They need to learn to storm.
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  As Renee Brown says it's, you know, rumbling with that uncertainty.
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  So that was, that's a merge.
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  And then, the automated company was pretty similar.
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  And they're not going through any change.
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  They're global player, and they are not storming.
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  So this overwhelm, this you know, with this, you know, too much work, too little time, high
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  stress, is that people are either going So, you know, diggers out full charge ahead, MiWay, or
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  the Freaking Highway, or they're actually going into denial, and they're not knowing how to
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  ramble with uncertainty.
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  So I'm seeing polarized, approach.
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  So two extremes.
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  So you're not seeing the normative like you said, storming where people are actually
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  articulating or sharing what they're what they're experiencing so you either get I would
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  say freeze where they're freezing and or, just kind of going into the woodwork on functioning
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  as best as possible based on what the expectations you expectations they think are of
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  them.
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  I wonder if, anybody else is seeing the same thing or if there's some different active, that
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  you can add?
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  I'd like to add to that, Joni.
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  I think you've made a really good point because a lot of people are skipping that piece and
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  they don't even realize they're in storming.
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  So even educating them about what storming is that you're in the phase of storming,
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  especially with people returning to work after COVID, there's a lot of storming going on.
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  And the kind of requests I'm getting right now, I mean, I deal with more than conflict.
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  I deal with psychological harassment and psychological violence.
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  That includes conflict and abrasiveness and all of the all of the what sits below that.
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  What I'm seeing is larger organizations reaching out for help I'm seeing a lot of
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  requests for our training on vicarious trauma, burnout, compassion fatigue, you know, with the
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  how COVID has simplified and caused so much more mental health concerns for professionals
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  as well as our clients.
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  So I'm seeing a greater demand from larger organizations for this training in addition to
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  prevention, intervention, repair recovery of workplace bullying, harassment, and violence.
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  So I'm seeing, you know, more complex cases, larger organizations, and looking for mini
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  mental health series as well.
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  I'll add.
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  I think that's very important what you've said, and I'll just add to the conversation that I
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  think what I'm hearing on the ground sort of from the the the employees struggling with
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  enormous amounts of change, and they're struggling with organizational changes.
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  Many companies I'm hearing from are are making bringing teams together, doing large scale
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  integrations.
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  They're working with teams.
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  They don't know well.
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  They don't have that you the usual, and I think, Jody, you said that they don't have the
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  usual patterns established.
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  We've come out of COVID.
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  We've jumped into, like, new projects or new initiatives, new companies, and we don't have
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  the commonality of trust, and we don't have the familiarity of how do we work through change?
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  I think the place and I think this is where a leadership has a real an opportunity is to
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  really get into the space of change management.
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  We all know business has to keep running.
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  We all know that they also have to make changes, and they have to do 2 things at once.
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  And if you do not manage the space between both of those and take people along the journey,
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  Then they make the journey up themselves.
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  I'm sorry to say that.
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  Their fear, their anxiety comes to the surface, and all they're so their their usual coping
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  strategies typically drop.
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  Their resilience drops, their their comfort Roxanne, and the conflict is is bubbling, and
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  it's not bubbling because necessarily they don't, you know, they don't wanna work as a
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  team, They've missed, as Linda said, and as Jody said, they've missed that step of, joining
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  together and forming that allows, you know, the storming is one thing, but they don't even have
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  that trust.
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  Yep.
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  Yeah.
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  That
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  I guess,
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  like, Sorry, Trina.
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  Go ahead.
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  No.
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  I was just gonna say, like, I can resonate with all of your experiences of, you know, being a
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  resiliency conflict, but also I've been doing those workplace assessments that are now
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  mandated under occupational health and safety, federally, and provincially.
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  And what is interesting is coming through COVID that trauma informed is the keyword, but a lot
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  of people don't understand the behavioral reactions and how to identify them.
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  And then you link in, yeah, we need to be resilient.
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  From my perspective and having done resiliency in 25 years trained from a guru in California,
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  it's looking at that personal professional operational organizational risk management.
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  Right?
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  Take those failures.
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  Take those mistakes take the learning from COVID and actually name on document them.
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  How did you actually get through COVID because that's what we're forgetting.
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  People are not using the resilient risk management skill sets that have developed
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  through COVID putting a name to it, the environmental context, and then using that to
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  build the leadership.
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  And what's on through our work, you know, the workplace assessments, doing them.
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  They're confidential, but then you do the focus groups and the individual interviews.
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  People just wanna feel heard and and and recognized, right, we're coming back to work,
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  but it's really that big push again status quo.
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  Let's get back to what was before COVID.
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  And what I like to share with them is you gotta think of COVID was like a death.
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  We have to grieve it.
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  Recognize our world is never gonna return to the way it was, but here's an opportunity to
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  create that leadership legacy.
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  And not just bounce forward with, you know, that resiliency of buttons and forward, it's
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  bounce and pass forward.
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  It's using that needle to sell and use that learning and transformational growth.
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  And then what comes with that is as humans, we all assume because you've learned the skill or
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  you sat in that workshop, you know how to apply that skill in the environmental context when it
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  happens.
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  When in reality, the performance deficit is huge.
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  Yep.
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  I think what you said is incredibly important because you brought up the piece trauma
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  informed.
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  You know, before COVID, we had the risk factors of conflict.
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  We had the risk factors of bullying harassment.
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  Now with COVID, we've multiplied that by, what, 10?
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  You know, so the higher risk factors of conflict, higher risk factors of bullying,
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  higher risk factor of mental health issues or psychological injury is just so much higher.
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  So we need the trauma informed training And that's really missing.
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  As far as leadership, you need trauma informed training in order to feel competent, and in
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  order to feel confident, because this is going to be incredible pressure and stress on you as
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  a leader.
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  You have to have that that tool kit that helps you understand all these individual reactions
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  to COVID.
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  And I agree with you.
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  There's a grieving process here, but there's still a learning process because there's new
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  information still coming out about the vaccine, about the effects of the all of it, and they'll
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  be grieving on many levels for many years to come.
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  That's a very important point.
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  But it's not over yet.
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  So this our old norm we're grieving.
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  And now we're anticipating this new norm, but it's got to involve that trauma informed
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  awareness.
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  And it's our opportunity right now.
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  Like, this is the only time in life where we know trauma sits on our epigenetic and goes
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  through 7 to 8 generations.
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  So now is the time where we have to become trauma informed, name those behaviors, those
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  performances, because we are the future.
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  We are the baseline.
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  We are the stability of creating that intergenerational trauma for the future
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  generations.
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  But you need excellent point.
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  Excellent point, Trina.
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  Sorry.
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  I cut you off there.
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  Carry on.
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  It's just a brilliant point you're making, and not a lot of people are making your point.
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  So let's let's let's back up for a second because I think this is all phenomenal
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  information.
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  And for leaders who are listening and they hear the word trauma informed.
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  What is it?
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  Is it is it is it a label that we're using, and we don't already know what it represents
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  because I want I would love the perspective of what it is and what it is kind of attached to a
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  company because I think that's what happens sometimes I'm gonna apply this trauma informed
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  perspective and then it gets applied and nobody really knows what it's about.
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  So for and I know you all would add breath and depth but tell people that are listening that
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  may not know what that means, what it is, and really what it's not, and what you're seeing
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  out there.
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  That might mean a different thing to different people here because we all come from different
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  backgrounds.
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  So I'm a trauma therapist.
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  And I'm through a trauma lens, I'm going to explain to you that that doesn't mean a leader
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  has to become a psychologist to be trauma informed But investigators or assess people who
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  are doing workplace assessments, people who are in leadership positions, even HR, In my
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  opinion, it should be mandatory that they have trauma informed training.
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  And what that means is to understand people reactions, what their physiology and the
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  biology of trauma, the fight flight freeze that you mentioned earlier, just the basics of that,
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  that the person in front of you that is angry and irritable and agitated might not be a
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  difficult person, but they might be having a panic attack.
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  They might be suffering from depression.
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  A lot of people don't know that.
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  Even therapists, not all therapists are trauma informed, and that's a misunderstanding out
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  there.
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  That we're not all trauma informed.
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  You know, we we're not all trauma therapists.
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  We might specialize in grief and loss or addictions, but that doesn't mean we're trauma
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  informed.
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  Just having those basic understanding of what a panic attack is, what anxiety is, what
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  depression is, what PTSD, basic training in this area, So you know what to watch for, but
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  you and then you also know how to respond appropriately because an awful lot of leaders
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  and an awful lot of investigators or insurance companies and even medical doctors don't
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  understand the kind of injuries that these things do and and make comments that are more
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  shaming and blaming and more causing more injuries to their patients or clients or
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  employees.
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  So that's I'm gonna add to it.
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  Go ahead, Trina.
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  I'm sorry.
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  It's Barbara.
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  I'm gonna add in here just, because this is a a place that I worked quite a lot.
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  And, and I think understanding the distinction This is a being trauma informed means education
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  providing trauma informed counseling is a specific methodology.
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  It is a unique skill set, and it is you have to be trained.
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  Now I will say that often organizations by mental health services.
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  Most organizations in Canada and around the globe have EAP services.
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  That's a valuable service.
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  That service, the fundamental clinical service they are providing is short term solution
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  focused.
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  When I began, and I'll tell you it was a long time ago, 30 years ago, solution focus
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  literally was I've helped 80% of the people we we saw, and I looked to you, Roxanne, you were
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  in this with me.
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  20% of the people we saw needed something different.
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  Now were we trauma informed?
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  No.
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  We were solution focused therapists with a core competency typically in CBT.
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  Our tool bag was very robust, and we may have other clinical methodologies But we were very
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  much in the here and now, no going backwards, only going forward, having a very specific
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  goal.
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  Now fast forward, around 2015.
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  CBC CBT methodologies really came to the forefront because there was exponential growth
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  in depression and anxiety, and that is a very helpful set of skills.
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  Again, very goal focus, very behavioralist, lots of awareness, but a practical easy bite
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  sized ways to manage problems.
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  These two methodologies can be helpful down the road, but when someone comes to you and they
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  join with you and they tell you that they've been bullied or there's been a traumatic event
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  or a disruptive event in the workplace that had been exposed to an accident.
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  I mean, there are many disruptive events in the workplace.
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  Moving into the wrong clinical approach can be harmful.
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  So I think this is a complicated message.
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  I think when you as leaders are trying to evaluate the right type of support to to help,
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  you really need to lift up and get quality information and get educated.
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  So I sound a bit preachy, but this is a place of passion because I think the, you know,
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  munitions.
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  This is my call out to them is and to me is get informed about these different meta
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  methodologies and get certified and get trained.
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  So, yep, I'll, there I go.
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  I'd
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  love to add a concrete example because when I give my warned workshops I use the example of
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  having lived in Alberta.
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  I've lived up in Northern Alberta in Cold Lake.
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  So back up there, it's a navy bay or, sir, it's an air force base.
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  So Air Force Base once a year, they'd have Maple Flag.
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  So when Maple Flag happens, all the top fighter pilots of the world come and practice for 5, 6
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  weeks, So my everyday thing would be before I drop the kids off, we'd go on to the tarmac.
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  You're, like, right by the tarmac.
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  We'd watch the Jets get ready.
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  You could feel the engines, you could see the flames.
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  It was better than Kathy.
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  I called it rumbling, right?
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  And then we'd watch them take off land, everything.
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  So whenever I hear Jets and I could hear those F Eighteens, I get the behavioral, the somatic
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  is I get excited My heart starts racing.
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  I get a big smile.
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  I'm adrenaline.
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  I am happy.
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  However, now take the contacts and my ex husband is military, and I used to be a veteran
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  affairs case manager, so very well versed in that environment and lived on military bases.
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  So imagine a vet who's been medically released, and now he's gonna go for a job interview.
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  And as he's walking into the building for the job interview, The F Eighteens are flying by
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  because there's an air show happening in Toronto, but he doesn't get that fun excited
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  adrenaline rush that I'm getting He's getting flashbacks of when he might be that pilot who
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  was shooting down in 9:11.
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  And all of a sudden, he getting those flashbacks, and now he's having a trauma
• 19:28
  response, but he's supposed to walk into this building and go and have a job interview with
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  HR.
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  And so he walks in, but he's not fully present.
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  And they're noticing the behavior is different.
• 19:39
  Everybody knows there's an air show because they now announce it in the papers TV radio,
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  you think about people who've come over from the war.
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  Right?
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  The sound of planes is not always a happy feeling for people.
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  It is a trick.
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  So if you were in trauma informed and you were aware that the air show was going on, and
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  here's a veteran because it he's a veteran on his resume coming in, but something's off.
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  Becoming trauma informed, you would be able to recognize and understand the environmental
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  context that might be influencing the behavior and how to then ground him so that he could
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  fully participate in the interview.
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  I like that example, Trina, and another piece to add to that is that that person coming in
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  would get the message from that interviewer that it's safe to share, I'm having a reaction
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  because you might not even be able to say that, right, that I'm having a reaction.
• 20:35
  You know, people who've just come out of a very, toxic work environment going to a new
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  interview, they're having anxiety.
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  They're getting triggered.
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  And having an environment that is trauma informed would set the space, a safe space for
• 20:49
  a newbie and allow you to be on rather than make up some stories as to why you've left that
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  job.
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  A lot of my clients say, well, how do I you know, what do I say if they ask me why I've
• 20:59
  left that job?
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  It should be okay to say, I was bullied.
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  There was an investigation.
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  It was substantiated, and I need to I need to move.
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  So that's what trauma informed would be.
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  And I think trauma informed is one strategy in creating a psychologically health and safe
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  workplace because trauma informed provides the workplace, the leaders, that psychological
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  protection that they're giving to their employees, and to all their staff members,
• 21:25
  everybody in the organization.
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  So understanding where trauma and form fits under the Canadian National Standards, the
• 21:32
  International Labor Standards of the 45003, the bill, you know, 168 in Ontario, each province
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  has their own descriptors, but understanding trauma informed and creating psychological
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  health and safety now is a risk mitigation strategy.
• 21:50
  That's amazing.
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  Right?
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  Because, you know, the average person and all of us here We understand all the lingo.
• 21:55
  Right?
• 21:56
  And and I think of when I worked with Barb and I manage a portfolio of 50 companies at any
• 22:01
  given point I would say about 65% of my portfolio was in flux.
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  So think of the context of not knowing some of the basics that we're talking about and now
• 22:12
  bring it forward to 2023 where flux is a is a macro kind of umbrella to everything that
• 22:20
  people are experiencing within companies and then try to not be trauma informed about what
• 22:27
  people experience through COVID what people are going through with, rightsizing, downsizing,
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  and, you know, selling off of certain parts of companies, mergers acquisitions.
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  That's a whole lot of moving parts all at once.
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  And within the context of that, we're wondering, you know, what are people needing?
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  And if you're not aware as a management team or a supervisor or a middle manager, all those
• 22:52
  elements, not that to to someone's point, you don't have to be a trauma therapist or a
• 22:58
  psychologist in any way, but you have to know the fundamental basics of what are the symptoms
• 23:03
  potentially that might display itself when someone's sitting across from you and then know
• 23:08
  enough to say, they're needing a bit more.
• 23:11
  They need to be able to be sent somewhere else.
• 23:14
  And I think That's the education piece that I think is is is needed out there.
• 23:18
  I think so for the education piece.
• 23:20
  What I find to be absolutely ironic.
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  Is that we're talking about psychological safety.
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  Psychological.
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  It's in the title.
• 23:28
  It's right there.
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  Psychological hazards, psychological harassment, psychological violence,
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  psychological injuries.
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  It's right there.
• 23:36
  If you've got a psychological component, you need to have the trauma informed piece as well.
• 23:42
  Absolutely.
• 23:42
  And it's storyteacher.
• 23:43
  Thanks too.
• 23:44
  It's the importance of the leaders of everybody.
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  It's being vulnerable because you gotta be able to recognize your own trauma response.
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  Because we've all experienced something.
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  So to be able to start becoming trauma informed by a reflection of your own past history, your
• 24:01
  own experiences of trauma, whether personal, professional, or environmental, and earthquake.
• 24:07
  You know, capsizing on the water, environmentally, there's many.
• 24:11
  So it's becoming trauma informed as even recognizing what might you might experience so
• 24:17
  that if you're triggered or you might have a flashback while you're having an interview or
• 24:21
  giving a meeting and you're not sure why.
• 24:25
  Yeah.
• 24:25
  I think we have to bring this back to leadership if we can about being the leader
• 24:30
  themselves being trauma informed.
• 24:31
  Is part of that is having that emotional intelligence about when you're being triggered.
• 24:37
  As a leader, you know, I might be a leader who's avoiding conflict because I have a past
• 24:42
  history of being a child of a domestic violence.
• 24:44
  Right?
• 24:45
  And I'm I'm now avoiding conflict, which means I'm not being a really effective leader because
• 24:50
  I'm avoiding conflict within my staff.
• 24:53
  So part of being psycho, you know, trauma informed is that emotional intelligence having
• 24:57
  self insight to your own triggers, your own limitations, your strengths, of course, but
• 25:02
  also to having trust in your own judgment, being aware, knowing that you need to go deal
• 25:07
  with your fear of conflict, all of that's involved.
• 25:10
  So that emotional empathy piece is involved in trauma informed.
• 25:14
  And as leaders, Linda was going to say the same thing is that that that emotional intelligence
• 25:20
  piece I mean, I, look at research from a 150 countries.
• 25:25
  I mean, that's a lot of big bank research, a hundred thousand people at a time.
• 25:30
  Is that, you know, this whole emotional intelligence piece, we know that the research
• 25:35
  is showing that leaders who have good EQ are performed, you know, twice as as well as
• 25:42
  leaders who don't.
• 25:43
  So if you trauma informed, I love the examples that both you, and Tina have given.
• 25:48
  So, you know, if you come from, you know, a household when there was abuse, and there's
• 25:53
  bullying in the workplace, is how do you actually language that?
• 25:57
  So your emotional literacy, how do you navigate those emotions?
• 26:00
  So it's having all of those capabilities, and those are measurable skills.
• 26:05
  Those are teachable skills.
• 26:07
  So we are finding worldwide that where organizations are prioritizing EQ upskilling
• 26:14
  and training.
• 26:16
  There are 22 times more per high performing.
• 26:19
  So it's really, you know, that's the heart of it is And I always look at resilience with 4
• 26:24
  dimensions, and we can go, you know, risk management and change management programs, but
• 26:28
  I go you know, emotions drive people and people drive performance.
• 26:32
  So you gotta go back to the person.
• 26:34
  And the person that's four legs to the table What is their mental resilience like?
• 26:38
  What's their emotional resilience like?
• 26:40
  What's their physical resilience like?
• 26:42
  And what's their sense of purpose?
• 26:43
  And when you start dealing with people as individuals, giving them those EQ skills,
• 26:48
  teaching them that self awareness, giving it them, you know, to what Bob was saying earlier,
• 26:54
  those things around as individuals trying to trust each other.
• 26:59
  You know, trust worldwide has gone down dramatically.
• 27:03
  So we've really gotta go back to I think we gotta go back to basic post care COVID.
• 27:08
  And leaders need to be given some of these the the tool kit to handle, you know, what we used
• 27:13
  to call the soft skills.
• 27:15
  So Joanie and team, here's my question.
• 27:17
  And this is I love what you said, and here's the challenge.
• 27:20
  If you look at, the corporate structure, the executive structure.
• 27:26
  I believe it's still often dominated by men, and there isn't as much diversity as we wish.
• 27:31
  I think that tide is changing.
• 27:34
  What we know about and I'll be the counselor again.
• 27:37
  I'll put my counselor hat on.
• 27:38
  I'm a leader as well.
• 27:39
  But as a counselor, women are more likely to get the training and go for help.
• 27:45
  Men do, but it's it's not they're not represented as equally.
• 27:50
  So now you take that into the boardroom.
• 27:54
  How do you get the executive culture to value these softer skills.
• 27:59
  This is the scary word of trauma, counseling, psychological, all these words can be very
• 28:06
  triggering.
• 28:06
  How do you put them into context that they show the value of that social importance for your
• 28:14
  leadership, skills, but also for your organizational performance.
• 28:20
  As we become more aware as investors are holding organizations more and more accountable
• 28:26
  to the social aspects of their organization, these skills are gonna come higher and higher
• 28:33
  into the priority of it.
• 28:35
  So shifting that traditional male set of skills that we've all experienced as leaders not to be
• 28:42
  sexist here, but I am being a little generic and and generalizing.
• 28:46
  How do we shift that into these other types of conversations and soften?
• 28:51
  It's
• 28:51
  simple.
• 28:52
  It's simple.
• 28:52
  Okay.
• 28:53
  Joanie Sullivan.
• 28:54
  It's good.
• 28:57
  Tina mentioned it earlier.
• 28:58
  Workplace assessments.
• 29:00
  So if I our work mainly at senior management and director level.
• 29:05
  And you're right, unfortunately, Bob, is that 80% of the teams that I work with are men.
• 29:11
  So I don't ever and you, you know, you would say data.
• 29:15
  I would say data, is that workplace assessments.
• 29:19
  You've gotta go in with data.
• 29:22
  So I did a Chicago team, actually, all men on Tuesday night, and it was interesting.
• 29:29
  I made them do a workplace assessment.
• 29:31
  I said, here is a worldwide validated assessment, and it's validated and it's
• 29:36
  reliable.
• 29:36
  I teach a business school.
• 29:38
  It looks at the 5 drivers of of high performance in your exec team.
• 29:42
  Are your people motivated?
• 29:44
  Are they, what are their ability to, an agility to handle change?
• 29:50
  What is the teamwork cohesion like?
• 29:53
  What's the execution like?
• 29:55
  And then the 5th driver is trust.
• 29:57
  And let me tell you if there were 3 pulse points per each of those 5 drivers.
• 30:03
  So 15 post points, and that was scoped against, 50,000 teams worldwide.
• 30:09
  So looking at where they were at, they were shocking these men and trust was at a low.
• 30:15
  So you can't open those conversations unless you got data.
• 30:18
  I think that's a simple way to crack the code.
• 30:21
  And I just have a few questions, Joni.
• 30:24
  How do you get them to accept an it's, an assessment I mean, I agree assessment and data
• 30:30
  is critical, but how do you even get in the door if you've got resistance, the old boys
• 30:34
  club, the old girl club is saying, no, I don't want, you know, I don't wanna know.
• 30:38
  They have all kinds of reasons.
• 30:40
  How do you get past that?
• 30:42
  I I can share that in in Canada.
• 30:45
  Coaching.
• 30:46
  When you're coaching the CEO, and I've been coaching the CEO for a year now.
• 30:51
  And, He has a hybrid team in Chicago, Spain, Amsterdam, and Cape Town.
• 30:58
  So his exec team are all over these guys.
• 31:01
  And I said to him, I can tell you right now, from what I've heard around the world, you
• 31:05
  don't have a cohesive team.
• 31:06
  And you if I was you, you gotta, you know, Good old Jim Collins said also 20 years ago, you
• 31:12
  know, good leaders need to look in the mirror to see what's happening.
• 31:16
  So let's put the mirror up.
• 31:17
  Let's have an assessment.
• 31:18
  And let's, you know, see what's happening.
• 31:20
  I wanna know.
• 31:23
  Unfortunately, then they take something critical often times unless you're in the front
• 31:27
  door with the CEO for them to start to listen.
• 31:31
  Or in Canada.
• 31:32
  Yeah.
• 31:32
  We take credit to critical situations.
• 31:36
  Right?
• 31:37
  Unfortunately, then that opens the door or, business cases too, right, like competitive
• 31:43
  edge potentially.
• 31:45
  But, Linda, you're right.
• 31:46
  How is it that, you know, if you are if you're if you're preaching to the aware, Right now
• 31:52
  I've lost someone.
• 31:53
  I've lost someone.
• 31:54
  There's been a critical accident.
• 31:57
  I'm losing market share.
• 31:58
  So what's what's the value of a case That's different.
• 32:02
  But if you're trying to if you're talking about the unaware, portion of sectors, that's
• 32:07
  something maybe Trina can share.
• 32:09
  She was gonna share something.
• 32:10
  Those are the people that are harder to get to, but maybe maybe you do have it inroads at some
• 32:15
  point in a different way.
• 32:17
  With with the assessments that I do, there is a cost to conflict.
• 32:20
  So when you want to get to that c suite or the the mail, who's not as sometimes, you know,
• 32:26
  resistant, it's it comes down to time, money, and reputation.
• 32:30
  And there actually is a formula to calculate the cost of conflict when you have the metrics
• 32:36
  and you have the stats of the disability, the retention, the presenteeism, It all comes down,
• 32:43
  and that's part of having a workplace assessment.
• 32:45
  This was such a great interview that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 32:50
  Be sure to tune in next week for part 2 so you don't miss out on the amazing content.
• 32:56
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Sam, creating the space for positive healthy
• 33:02
  change.
• 33:03
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 33:09
  rocksandirhaj.com/blueprint.
• 33:13
  We'll see you next time.
• 33:15
  On authentic living with Roxanne.