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George Hawkins: The Moonshot Mindset | Make Water Work 016 · Make Water Work Podcast

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The notion of working with the balance
0:03
sheet and systematically implementing
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projects that may cost a little more
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upfront but then offer permanent savings
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and creating systems that drive that
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continuously over time. Which means the
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only way we solve this. The reason I
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formed moonshot is the places that need
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that the most are the ones without help
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are least able to access it. They don't
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have the time or wherewithal to
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implement the projects that would put
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their utility in a sustainable path. And
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we have to do that at every size. It's
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it's the yes, the ones that are uh less
0:38
resourced are the ones that need it the
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most, but all utilities need it.
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>> Welcome to the Make Water Work podcast,
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where we dive into the people, ideas,
0:47
and innovation shaping the future of
0:50
water. I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin,
0:52
and alongside my co-host, Megan Glover,
0:55
the founder of 120 Water, we bring you
0:58
insights from hundreds of incredible
1:00
conversations we've had over the past 9
1:02
years with inspiring and energizing
1:05
leaders in the water industry. Each
1:08
week, we share those stories and
1:10
conversations with entrepreneurs,
1:12
community champions, and innovators who
1:14
are making water work for everyone.
1:17
Whether you're a water professional, a
1:19
curious innovator, or simply passionate
1:21
about our most precious resource, this
1:23
podcast is for you. Let's get started.
1:28
Well, welcome everyone to today's
1:31
podcast, the Make Water Work Podcast,
1:33
where Isaac and I talk to the innovators
1:36
of water and celebrate the people that
1:38
are making water work every single day.
1:40
So, who do we have on the podcast today,
1:42
Isaac? Um we have uh George Hawkins who
1:46
is uh is certainly no um no stranger to
1:50
the water industry um and one of the
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folks who had such a big impact on me
1:55
early on in my time here at 120 um
1:59
because of the way he framed how
2:01
utilities need to think about innovation
2:03
and the value of of investing
2:06
>> um in things even when it's hard and
2:08
doing that in a way that brings the
2:10
community along. And so, um, there's so
2:12
much value I know we're going to get out
2:14
of this conversation. And, um, you know,
2:16
George was the general manager at DC
2:19
Water and now has launched, um, uh,
2:22
Moonshot Missions. And it's going to be
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exciting to get, um, hear from George on
2:27
how life has been going. So, George,
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welcome to the podcast.
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>> Hi, Nick. Megan, it is so delightful to
2:34
be here. I remember the day when you
2:37
kicked off, I don't think it was called
2:39
120 Water back then. remember that 125
2:42
audit
2:43
>> audit
2:43
>> you yes and we were in a little room I
2:46
think it was at uh don't remember but I
2:48
remember being there and thinking this
2:50
is going to go somewhere but you know
2:52
the idea that I may have contributed a
2:54
bit is great I certainly have learned
2:56
watching you because nobody warned me
2:58
how hard it is to do a startup but I've
3:00
watched the evolution of yours and how
3:02
successful it's been bless you all
3:04
because of the content of the work and
3:06
how successful but watching that arc has
3:08
been very helpful to me so you both of
3:11
you have been sort of I've been looking
3:13
at you as that that's the mountain top I
3:14
want to achieve. So I'm grateful glad to
3:16
be here with with you both today.
3:18
It's wonderful to have you and I knew I
3:20
mean um you know once you kind of took
3:22
that leap into entrepreneurship we
3:24
always knew you were going to be
3:25
successful because you were solving a
3:27
massive problem and I think that's just
3:28
at the heart of what makes entrepreneurs
3:30
just so passionate and businesses
3:32
successful is when you find a massive
3:34
problem to solve it's uh really hard for
3:36
that not to be successful if you have
3:38
someone uh at your leadership level at
3:40
the at the helm. So George it is a honor
3:43
to have you on the podcast.
3:45
>> You delighted to be here. We we love
3:47
asking every guest that um that comes on
3:50
the podcast. Um everyone has a story
3:53
about how water found them. And so
3:55
George, how did water find you?
3:59
>> Um gosh, it's found me uh continuously
4:02
and off through my lifetime, but it
4:04
started when I was in elementary school.
4:07
I went to Cle I went to an elementary
4:09
school. We took a bus trip and it went
4:11
down the hill into the city and down a
4:13
second hill down to what's called the
4:14
flats and uh and when we got off the
4:19
bus, it had been sunny when we left that
4:21
day. And when we got off the bus, it was
4:22
cloudy.
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>> Yeah.
4:24
>> And I asked the bus driver what the
4:25
smell was in the air. And uh he tapped
4:28
me on the head, this big guy. I was a
4:29
little elementary school kid. He goes,
4:31
"My son, that's the sweet smell of
4:33
success." Because I was standing down on
4:37
the flats in Cleveland, Ohio. I grew up
4:39
in Cleveland Heights, Fairfax Elementary
4:42
School. We get went down there and we
4:44
toured the flats, gigantic mills, like
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this was when Cleveland was an economic
4:49
powerhouse. Carnegie, Rockefeller, they
4:51
all started in Cleveland. Most people
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don't know that.
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>> The consequence was you could not see
4:56
from one corner of a street to the next
4:58
because of the air pollutants. Or I
4:59
walked down to the river and it looked
5:02
like an old fingerpainting like we would
5:03
make as kids because there was so much
5:05
pollutants in that river.
5:07
it wasn't really a river anymore. Um,
5:09
and as you know, uh, actually it was
5:12
about two months after we visited, a
5:14
train going by sparked from the train
5:16
wheel ignited the river on fire, which
5:19
was the seventh time it burned in the
5:21
60s.
5:22
>> Wow.
5:22
>> And what I love about that that origin
5:25
story is we went back and we were
5:27
elementary school kids and I back then
5:29
you would write on the wide paper with
5:31
the big pencils. Mhm.
5:34
>> All wrote letters to President Nixon
5:37
all saying this has got to change. It
5:39
you didn't have to be highly ed you just
5:42
you knew this is not right. This should
5:44
not stand and I think the clean water
5:47
act was not that long after that. Yeah.
5:49
A few years later then uh thereafter and
5:52
water just kept on coming up that the
5:55
bigger question of course is the whole
5:57
ecosystem but sort of like measure your
5:59
health and well-being by taking your
6:01
blood. The best way to tell tell the
6:03
health in my view of tell health and
6:05
well-being of a place is looking at
6:07
their water.
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>> Yeah, I love that.
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>> You tell so much more. It's almost like
6:10
a balance sheet. That's the ecological
6:12
balance sheet of the place.
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>> So, I've loved being part water not only
6:17
because of water but because of what it
6:19
it what it it it represents for the
6:22
health of an entire system. I love I
6:24
love that and and it's um that theme of
6:27
water being at the core of economic
6:30
development, health, like that ecosystem
6:32
building definitely has come out as a
6:34
theme on the podcast and I think that's
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uh that's a really wonderful uh theme uh
6:40
that we're hearing and I love how you
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articulated that in particular,
6:42
>> George. And it's also the thing where
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people um as utility leaders need to do
6:47
a good job of telling the story of the
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impact of the water quality and you know
6:53
to get that investment and I think
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that's one of the things um when I uh
6:58
think about anytime I've heard you talk
6:59
about your time at DC water um I'd love
7:02
for you to talk about how you approached
7:05
innovation and communication um with
7:09
with the public.
7:11
>> Sure. Um, and I I love that question
7:14
because I to this is a virtue that most
7:17
water utilities for a long time were run
7:20
by engineering folks who understood how
7:22
the systems work. And of course, you
7:24
need that. That that's a really powerful
7:26
and profound asset and experience. But
7:29
what they weren't oriented towards was
7:31
telling the story of what they were
7:33
doing to others. in some ways almost
7:35
felt it was a virtual the harder the
7:37
better we do and no one knows us that
7:39
means we're really good at it
7:41
>> because people turn on the water they
7:42
flush the toilet or whatever and they
7:44
don't even think that's only if we do
7:46
our job right so there was some virtue
7:48
there the challenge is almost everything
7:51
about water at least as I faced it at at
7:54
DC water when I joined it was it was in
7:56
the term of cost this is an expense this
7:59
is a rate increase this is a challenge
8:01
this is a burden because that's all
8:03
people heard is the only thing they
8:05
would hear from their water utility was
8:06
a bill and if it were going up as
8:08
opposed to any of the benefits that was
8:10
what's driven and what my I believe that
8:14
an investment in water and the US water
8:16
alliance came out with a report today um
8:19
indicating once again that an investment
8:21
in water of course it's ecological
8:23
benefit there's no business there's no
8:25
job there's no place that can have any
8:27
kind of vitality on a community public
8:29
health or economic basis without this as
8:32
a foundation
8:34
And what I wanted to present to our rate
8:36
payers in DC were tough that's a tough
8:39
rate paying group is the the the value
8:43
proposition. I always said the dollar I
8:45
want you to believe I can prove it to
8:47
you that the dollar you invest in DC.
8:49
What is the best dollar you're going to
8:50
spend um this year because of all of the
8:54
things that come from it? Um, and in DC
8:56
we saw that the clean up of the
8:57
Anacostia, the continued cleanup of the
8:59
PTOIC, the revitalization of both
9:02
waterfronts, the economic growth that
9:03
has come, as well as the improvements to
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the natural ecosystem and the Ches Peak
9:08
Bay. The multiple benefits are sort of
9:11
extraordinary and but that's a story
9:12
that needs to be told. I'll tell you one
9:14
last thing. I I always loved it when
9:16
there was these surveys that would say,
9:18
"Well, people don't want to pay more for
9:19
water." And they're sort of lamenting
9:20
that reality. I'm like, "Of course
9:23
that's what they're going to say."
9:24
Someone calls me on the phone and asks
9:26
me if I want to pay more for a
9:27
hamburger, my answer is going to be no.
9:29
Why would I? Why would I say yes to
9:31
that? Unless I know why I want to pay.
9:36
I've been given a value proposition. I'm
9:38
paying more for that burger because it's
9:39
bigger, it's better, it's better,
9:41
whatever. There's got to be
9:42
>> explanation for the cost increase, not
9:45
just increasing prices.
9:47
And that means you have to have a
9:49
relationship with your customer and and
9:50
and hope that they understand
9:54
when there are rate increases and it's
9:55
inevitable in the water sector given age
9:57
and and new contaminants and all the
10:00
rest that they understand what they're
10:02
investing in and that depends on them
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knowing who you are and hopefully liking
10:06
what you're doing and enjoying the
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outcomes.
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>> Yeah.
10:10
>> George, I don't know this question.
10:11
We're going off a little bit script, but
10:12
how did you aspire? What it was? General
10:15
manager of a very large utility, a
10:18
municipality on your on your
10:20
professional development card. How did
10:22
you actually end up?
10:25
>> No, not in the slightest. I was running
10:28
prior to being at DC water, I was
10:30
running at the division department of
10:32
energy and environment, which I was the
10:34
first director. It did all the energy
10:36
work in the city, did all the and it was
10:38
a fascinating agency because it's a DC
10:41
is a city, a county, and a state. So
10:43
there's no other position where you had
10:45
false man of control. We would write a
10:47
state plan, a county implementation, and
10:49
we'd send out the inspectors. And one
10:51
day I was at DC City Hall loving the
10:54
job, put all my people in place, and I
10:56
got pulled into a a stairwell by the
10:58
city administrator. That's note to self,
11:01
not good. Good things happen in
11:03
stairwells. And he said the mayor really
11:06
dislikes DC Wasa. That is what it was
11:08
known and was not known for customer
11:10
service. All was not was didn't have
11:12
good people. It just was the
11:13
oldfashioned version of a the mayor had
11:16
been a ward-based council member and
11:18
really disliked the customer service. Uh
11:20
that he says the mayor wants you to
11:22
apply to be GM of DC Water. It's
11:26
authority. So he could not appoint me.
11:28
And at the time I thought it was the
11:30
worst idea I had ever heard. It was not
11:32
only not on my career. here. I'm like,
11:34
what would I do running a big water
11:36
utility? I've never I know their
11:38
permits. I know their consent decrees.
11:40
Otherwise, the rest of that is But as I
11:43
thought about it, I completely changed
11:46
my mind as I first of all, given the
11:49
mayor wanted me to do it. I didn't have
11:50
a lot of options.
11:52
>> Right. Second, I was like, gosh, we were
11:54
trying to cobble together a million
11:56
dollars for green infrastructure in DC
11:58
from my old agency. DC Water has
12:01
hundreds of millions of dollars in its
12:03
capital budget. It's connected to every
12:05
development in the city. If it's if it
12:08
changes course to do some of these
12:10
things, it can do it at a scale that I
12:12
never even imagined. So then all I knew
12:15
I had a big change, which is sort of to
12:16
the innovation question. There was a big
12:18
change that I felt needed to come to DC
12:20
WASA, but the opportunity was enormous.
12:24
So I when I got to that point, then I
12:26
couldn't wait. I was really excited
12:27
about it. Man, there there's a whole
12:29
thread of of questions um a whole line
12:33
of of questions that I could follow up
12:35
with. Um it it kind of triggers this
12:38
thought for me of you always talk about
12:41
whenever I've heard you speak about the
12:44
amount of power that a water utility
12:47
consumes. And I'm I'm curious just in
12:51
everything you're talking about with
12:52
like energy and those kind of things,
12:53
how you saw that investment in being
12:55
able to say like, hey, we can optimize
12:58
power consumption and
13:01
>> invest in green space.
13:02
>> Invest in green space and and understand
13:04
the ecosystem of both how power and
13:06
water work together.
13:09
>> Yeah, absolutely. What I did when I came
13:11
in, so I I remember it was very early in
13:14
my tenure. I met with our CFO at the
13:16
time, Olu, and he showed me our capital
13:18
budget. And even though it was starting
13:20
with the hundreds of millions, it was
13:21
going up by 50 to 100 million for five
13:23
straight years. I was like, are you
13:25
kidding me? Each year, we're going to
13:27
have to raise 50 to$100 million more
13:29
than the year before with a populace
13:31
that at the time didn't like us. So, we
13:34
knew we had to start reducing costs and
13:36
telling a story to our customers that
13:38
would put them in the mindset of being
13:40
willing to accept that kind of rate
13:41
increase. Because what happens with the
13:43
utility if they don't get rate increases
13:45
and they have mandated work that must be
13:47
done almost all of that rate increase
13:50
was for regulatory required mandated
13:53
work is you skimp on everything else and
13:56
that's the maintenance of the water
13:57
systems that's replacements of drinking
13:59
water lines all the things that people
14:00
see and feel out in the system don't get
14:05
investment because you have to do the
14:07
permit work so we knew we had to raise
14:09
those funds and so I just looked at the
14:11
balance sheet if we are going to reduce
14:13
costs at DC water. Where are we spending
14:15
all our money? First was personnel.
14:17
Second was debt service and third was
14:20
power. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I had not
14:22
really contemplated that." At the time
14:24
we had a $37 million annual power budget
14:27
at DC Water because water and waste
14:30
water is so heavy, right?
14:32
>> And it takes so much power to move it.
14:34
It's a lot of energy.
14:35
>> I hired someone. I was I think one of
14:37
the first utilities in the country. We
14:38
hired a full-time energy professional
14:40
from Pepco, our from our power company
14:43
to come in and provide immediate
14:46
full-time daily service about every way
14:48
we could save on power. Um, which was
14:51
one of the best ways, and by the way,
14:53
what I do now is take that same message,
14:56
finding ways that you can improve your
14:58
performance, in our case, cut carbon
15:01
carbon emissions, reduce improve
15:04
resiliency, all sorts of things came
15:06
from it. But the bottom line was it also
15:09
improved our balance sheet. We ended up
15:11
with a utility that was had a more
15:14
revenue than it did when we started
15:15
these projects. They were cash flow
15:17
positive. That's like the sun coming up
15:20
for a utility. Yeah.
15:21
>> And every single utility can do it. And
15:24
there's no every, in my view, every
15:26
single utility should be doing it
15:28
because it's one of the few areas where
15:29
you put some time into it, you put some
15:31
investments in, it will pay you back
15:33
plus some.
15:34
>> Yeah. And heck, that's a great place for
15:36
any any any utility to start.
15:39
>> My gosh, I love that. So, and I just
15:41
love the fact that we're talking about
15:42
balance sheets and utilities in the same
15:44
conversation. That's so refreshing. Um,
15:47
so so you alluded to the uh what you're
15:50
doing now. So, I want to make sure we
15:51
spend a lot of time on this because it's
15:53
super important work and that that we
15:55
want to talk about. So, moonshot
15:57
moonshot missions. What compelled you to
16:00
start this Georgia? I mean you could
16:01
have done anything after after DC but
16:03
yet you choose chose to you know join
16:06
the crazies and you know start your own
16:09
start your own entity but uh what led
16:11
what compelled you to start moonshot?
16:13
>> What compelled me was telling the DC
16:15
water story. So I was able and by the
16:18
way most of the things we did at DC
16:20
water was not things that I brought.
16:22
What I was able to do was assemble a
16:24
great team. I always felt I was the
16:26
conductor of an excellent jazz band. I
16:28
think of every organization. Great
16:29
leadership tip.
16:30
>> And I don't play the instruments.
16:32
>> They all play their instruments
16:34
beautifully. And I'm going to ask each
16:35
one to stand up and improvise and sort
16:37
of solo for a while and then sit back
16:39
down and stay on the same tune. And when
16:41
you great musicians in a jazz band, you
16:43
can make beautiful music. And so DC
16:46
Water did a lot on everything. Finance,
16:48
procurement, personnel, operations, all
16:51
of it because of the team we were I was
16:53
able to recruit and retain. And I tell
16:56
that story. And what I constantly heard
16:59
was I would have folks from the audience
17:01
come up to me afterwards and say,
17:02
"That's a great story you tell with
17:04
entertaining
17:06
little pits and pieces of what happened
17:07
here and there, but guess it has no
17:09
relationship to us. You had uh billion
17:13
plus totex budget. You had all
17:15
engineers. Every company wanted to work
17:17
with you. I've got 20 employees. I
17:20
should have 30. I have an operating
17:22
deficit. There's a debt cap in my
17:24
community. Oh, I'm holding on. I'm just
17:28
holding on. I'm doing what I have to do
17:30
to deliver this service every day. Our
17:32
people are multitasking and we're
17:33
responding to things. But the idea I
17:35
have the chance to step back and look at
17:38
our energy consumption and start
17:39
evaluating various ways to make where
17:42
would that time come from? Where would
17:44
the money come from if we did find
17:46
something? Where would the people I just
17:48
don't have any of it then? I heard it
17:50
all the time.
17:51
>> Yes. And I felt that Megan when you said
17:54
was an unmet need I was like there's a
17:56
and it was not just a few these are
17:58
hundreds and hundreds even thousands of
18:01
communities that are strong. I was like
18:02
that's a need
18:04
>> and it's not being met because wonderful
18:07
engineering consulting firms don't
18:09
generally go into that market because
18:10
there's no money made.
18:12
>> Why is there no money to be made?
18:13
Because they have no money to spend.
18:14
That's the problem. So I was like that
18:17
needs an answer now and interesting uh
18:20
Megan at the exactly the same time I was
18:23
that's I started thinking about that
18:24
gosh this is a problem I keep hearing it
18:26
what needs to be done Dave Henderson at
18:29
XPV water partners asked me to write an
18:32
essay called Moonshot that's where the
18:34
name came from
18:35
>> oh I didn't know that oh my god
18:37
>> and the essay and the question he asked
18:39
in the essay is what is stopping public
18:41
agencies from implementing more
18:43
technical solutions we have all these
18:45
technology techies of software that
18:47
improve services, reduce costs, all
18:49
these great outcomes and they're not
18:51
being adopted very readily. Why? What's
18:53
the reason? And what would be your
18:55
moonshot to overcome those obstacles? So
18:58
I I never really systematically sat down
19:01
and thought about it, but it's a it's a
19:03
world that you faced running a service
19:05
selling to a utility
19:07
>> that what I and I outlined it all in
19:09
this paper. What a tech firm will say
19:11
when they have this great new product
19:13
that's going to reduce costs and all the
19:14
rest is it's from when it's already been
19:17
implemented and understood and trained,
19:20
okay, now your costs are going to go
19:21
down in your performance. What they
19:23
don't show is all the steps a utility
19:26
has to take to get there.
19:28
>> Yeah.
19:28
>> And all of those steps take additional
19:31
time and money that is very hard for a
19:33
utility to find particularly if they're
19:35
low uh sort of low resources. So the
19:38
problem were all the steps leading to
19:40
the innovation not the innovation and
19:42
the moonshot was well what enterprise
19:44
would be helpful to to sort of
19:47
supplement a local's capabilities to
19:50
overcome those steps so they could get
19:51
to innovation. By the way a little bit
19:54
of humor the first time they printed
19:55
that essay um it's on our it's on the
19:58
moonshot website he misprinted it and it
20:00
was misprinted as moon
20:05
>> That's so good. Nice big glossy book.
20:07
And there it was. And the moon should.
20:09
>> What did he really think of that essay?
20:10
Huh, George?
20:11
>> You know,
20:13
>> drinking water, waste water. It it it
20:16
still kind of works.
20:17
>> Yeah, I did. I sort of got I loved it.
20:19
Got humor from it. The other element
20:21
that connected to that and leads to the
20:23
moonshot missions is a 501c3. It's
20:25
designed to help communities assess,
20:28
identify, procure, and implement
20:31
innovations. And talk about balance
20:33
sheet. We'll sol we'll help solve any
20:36
problem that we find when we connect
20:38
with a utility. But our goal is not just
20:40
to solve a problem because if there's an
20:42
underlying financial mismatch that is
20:45
just kicking the can down to the next
20:47
problem.
20:47
>> Yeah.
20:48
>> Our goal is to find some will solve the
20:51
problem that helps build trust. Now you
20:53
have a relationship. So now what are the
20:55
projects you could undertake that would
20:57
improve your performance and improve
21:00
your balance sheet? So you fundamentally
21:02
have a different financial picture going
21:04
forward. That's the moonshot. Not a
21:06
project
21:07
>> but a scheme and a route. And
21:10
>> what is
21:12
amazing is it's been working really
21:14
well. What I what no one warned me both
21:16
of you is how hard a startup is.
21:19
>> I mean we had I had a piece of paper. I
21:21
wrote the essay. Here's how we would
21:23
start. We sat in our living room and
21:25
we're going to start Moodshot. And I
21:27
left EC water having no idea
21:30
>> Yeah. what it takes to do what you've
21:32
done. And it's it's hard because we're
21:34
being hired. People are like, "Well,
21:36
where's per wait? We don't have
21:37
personnel rules."
21:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. Workers compensation
21:40
filings. What what workers finance we
21:43
have? Now I need a a finance system that
21:46
can allocate costs from people to
21:49
various what and building all that. And
21:52
your plane is flying and your engine is
21:54
sort of on fire and you try to put it
21:56
out and put in a good engine all at the
21:58
same time. It's it is exciting, but it's
22:01
also it's an it's it's in it's an
22:04
incredible challenge
22:06
um that you all as entrepreneurs do sort
22:09
of instinctively. And I have I it's not
22:12
that I didn't respect entrepreneurs. I
22:14
just had never done it myself. So I've
22:16
run big agencies. I had a personnel
22:18
offices and procurement of all those
22:20
things. So yes, we had to make them more
22:22
efficient and do change. But those
22:24
things you I need to hire someone.
22:25
Someone say okay you'll have to do it.
22:28
Now I want to hire someone. Everyone's
22:29
looking at each other like who's got oh
22:32
wait that's us.
22:33
>> Yeah. So now I'm curious then George uh
22:37
how as an entrepreneur starting a new
22:39
company how have you found procurement
22:43
and um customer adoption as you know as
22:47
an entrepreneur and owning your own
22:49
company. How's that been for you?
22:51
Um uh I will try not to overstate this
22:55
but I think the general public approach
22:59
to procurement is an abomination.
23:03
>> Um we have had communities that want to
23:05
hire us where I know people there and it
23:09
takes them a year. Um we just had a RFP
23:13
that we responded to. I don't know
23:15
whether we'll be selected but it's at
23:17
entity we know and we were told well
23:20
glad you submitted we'll be reviewing
23:22
we'll let you know what's likely to
23:23
happen in a year
23:26
and what agency that is building like
23:29
ours I'm I'm impressed that you were
23:30
able to survive that gauntlet
23:33
>> and that's happened to us over and over
23:34
and over again um another state agent
23:37
this that was a a utility a state
23:39
agencies uh wanted to hire us to do TA
23:42
work we're I've got a great team we're
23:44
good at what we we deliver results
23:46
>> and again it took almost a year
23:48
>> for us for them to get us under
23:50
procurement. I think that's outrageous.
23:53
It's not only that it's almost
23:54
impossible for small organizations like
23:56
ours is not small anymore but to grow
23:59
when you have you got to put all that
24:00
money and time in upfront and wait a
24:03
year to make any revenue in return all
24:06
this help of small businesses and
24:07
otherwise it's the system of delay and
24:10
then when I look at what the
24:12
requirements are they become so
24:15
overblown and I'm a public sector guy of
24:18
course public money needs to be spent
24:19
well
24:20
>> right
24:21
>> but I I think we have a reckoning in
24:23
this country that we've made it so
24:24
difficult to that we actually spend more
24:27
money more public money I think of all
24:30
the not only of our time but all of the
24:33
public sector positions in the utilities
24:35
or the states or the feds who are
24:37
spending all of their time going through
24:39
all these new steps over and over and
24:42
over again.
24:44
how much transaction cost which is
24:46
interesting to me because one of the
24:47
things we did at DC water and we
24:49
encourage at moonshot is to look at
24:51
system cost.
24:52
>> Yeah,
24:53
>> I'll give you an example. Yeah, this we
24:55
did this at DC water. A meter turn the
24:57
clean water the meter turns that's your
25:00
beginning of your cash register and at
25:02
some point at the end a dollar comes
25:04
into your cash register. The question we
25:06
asked, and this is a moonshot issue we
25:08
take to the utilities we work with, is
25:10
do you know how much of the dollar that
25:12
came in your cash register, you spent
25:15
getting the dollar?
25:17
>> And what I found at DC Water shocked me.
25:19
It was 30 cents, 30% because of all the
25:22
steps and procurement, this that and the
25:24
other. And when we started reducing
25:26
those costs by becoming systematically
25:28
more efficient, it's like a rate
25:30
increase without a rate increase. And
25:31
that's what every utility can do. And
25:34
what I I I haven't figured out exactly
25:37
how to do this. I know inside an agency,
25:39
I know what they can do. Uh we have a
25:41
whole series of things to make an agency
25:43
more efficient and effective that drives
25:46
change in cost reduction, things your
25:48
customers will love them.
25:50
>> Yeah.
25:50
>> But the folks that we submit to, I uh I
25:54
think we have a reckoning. I'm I'm I'm
25:56
really shocked at how how hard it is to
25:58
do the public work and how much money is
26:01
spent just on the transaction not the
26:03
work itself.
26:04
>> I mean that is actually that is
26:06
fascinating to think about you know
26:09
gross margin as it comes to water and
26:11
just if we just improve the gross margin
26:13
of the product how much better off would
26:15
our utilities be? So if if you say you
26:18
started a baseline of 30 like where
26:19
where do you think reasonably could go
26:21
George? like what what do you think is
26:23
an appropriate kind of margin on that
26:25
dollar of of water?
26:28
>> We I think reduced it to 10%.
26:31
>> Reduced it to 10%. Yeah. Yeah.
26:33
>> And I don't know what the right I always
26:34
figured that I want eight. I mean that's
26:37
where you were constantly striving to
26:39
get better. Another quick one is when a
26:42
part broke and when it was delivered. We
26:44
found when we looked at it and here's
26:46
the issue for most utilities is nobody
26:49
looks at it across the system. Your
26:51
finance office is getting more efficient
26:52
on finance. Your procurement office is
26:54
getting more each piece of the agency
26:58
may get more efficient but there's very
27:00
few folks that look across and it was
27:02
across where most of the time was lost.
27:05
The handoffs from one oh procurement's
27:07
finished now let's go back to finance.
27:08
Well now finance got send it back over
27:10
to legal. the legal all these handoffs
27:12
is where and when we really started
27:14
making efficiency is when we looked at
27:16
that as a system that's rarely done. Um
27:20
and that's where tremendous improvements
27:23
and efficiencies can be gained which
27:25
guess what the utility gets to reinvest
27:27
back right that's real money all the
27:30
things and then you get this
27:33
>> momentum going and that's what happened
27:34
at DC water once the momentum started
27:37
I'll tell you another quick I'm sort of
27:39
rambling on but the question in moonshot
27:42
delivers is how to create systems and
27:45
utilities that drive continuous change
27:48
not just a project and I'll give you an
27:50
example at DC1 and any utility can do
27:53
this when there's a capital project that
27:55
comes up of whatever size so scale is
27:57
less important do you ask the question
28:00
of return on investment or system
28:03
program life cycle costs usually the
28:05
answer in the past has been no you're
28:07
looking for low cost bid and and what we
28:10
found is we required business practice
28:13
business plans for capital projects that
28:16
had life cycle costs and return on
28:18
investment. It completely changed how we
28:20
invested our money and we started
28:22
generating returns. Here was the next
28:24
question. So I had one of my best
28:25
division directors came in and said,
28:27
"Well, I've done all these projects that
28:28
saved money. You know what you did to
28:30
me? You just cut my budget." So what
28:32
incentive do I have other than the pat
28:34
on the back that we did a good job. So
28:37
we created a clawback that if you save
28:40
$100 on your project, you get to keep 15
28:43
in your budget for a project of your
28:46
choice. not the headquarters, not front
28:48
office choice that created an internal
28:51
incentive
28:52
in order and and all of a sudden every
28:54
division director was I want to have
28:56
that money. I want to do this forever. I
28:57
want to do that forever. And again,
28:59
those are system changes any utility
29:02
could put in place at their scale that
29:04
start driving change because of the way
29:07
the system works rather than the way the
29:09
system often works now, which is
29:11
inhibiting change. so hard to try
29:13
something new and to procure something
29:14
new and what should the do they have the
29:16
resources to do it. Moonshot helps with
29:19
that question but we don't want to we
29:21
would like to help a utility adopt some
29:24
of these systems and then they're on
29:26
their off they're like we taught how to
29:29
fish and they're now fishing and going
29:30
forth and we can move to the next place.
29:32
It's a it's exciting cycle but it's
29:34
possible we can do this.
29:36
>> Yeah.
29:37
>> And the question is is
29:38
>> I love it.
29:39
>> Yeah. Well, we we were talking uh
29:42
earlier um before the podcast when Megan
29:45
and I were just um excited to have you
29:47
on about
29:50
the innovation around process was also
29:53
in um in procurement and that aspect of
29:59
um Megan was telling a story and I I'll
30:02
let you tell it but just of um uh the
30:05
way you surround yourself with people. I
30:07
just remember George comment I think you
30:09
made this I don't think I dreamt it that
30:11
that you said you put you purposely sat
30:14
procurement near your office you know
30:16
but I mean just you know anecdotally
30:18
like be close to the solution right but
30:21
then you also shared in the pre in the
30:22
pre-show some of the very cool things
30:24
that maybe moonshot is trying to do
30:27
around that issue and be part of that
30:29
solution that I agree with you is
30:30
absolutely broken. it's inhibiting any
30:32
sort of innovation and honestly it's
30:34
killing small business like why start a
30:36
why start a business in water if you're
30:38
not going to be able to you know
30:39
generate revenue and hire great people
30:41
and all of the things that you need just
30:42
to build a great business. So um are you
30:45
able to share a little bit about how
30:47
Moonshot is kind of solving that?
30:49
>> It's a great question. I some of the
30:51
instrumental I I hired a full-time
30:53
external affairs officer who started
30:55
building our communications team. I
30:57
hired a full-time energy officer to
31:00
because that was the third highest cost
31:01
on our balance sheet. You had to say
31:03
money look at where the money's being
31:04
spent. Third is I hired an innovations
31:08
chief. That was Sudier Murthy who just
31:09
started driving what the innovation
31:11
should be. My job was how how can we
31:13
make it happen? His was well what should
31:15
it be? And the is I hired a procurement
31:18
chief which we didn't have before. Um
31:20
and I sat up two doors away. Okay.
31:22
Y
31:23
>> and and I wanted him to come and I would
31:26
check in with him every day, not every
31:27
day, but all the time. What's going on?
31:29
What's what's the problem? What are the
31:30
holdup? And we found that our
31:32
procurement rules were inhibiting a lot
31:35
of the innovations that we wanted to
31:37
achieve like paying far more upfront but
31:40
knowing that it was a permanent cash
31:42
flow positive project. Does was there a
31:46
way doing a design build design build
31:48
operate the kind of thing we did with
31:49
thermal hydraulysis. So we ended up
31:51
completely rewriting our procurement
31:53
manual from start to finish. Um and the
31:56
idea of doing a clawback or awards to
31:58
employees for innovations that meant
32:00
personnel rules that encouraged. So we
32:03
we made modifications to our personnel
32:05
rules. So there was a whole budgeting
32:07
this whole question of requiring a
32:09
business plan was something we changed
32:12
the capital budgeting process. So we had
32:14
changes that we encouraged in
32:16
procurement in personnel and in
32:18
budgeting the scheme of which started
32:21
generating the projects we saw and they
32:24
weren't coming from us. that were coming
32:25
from the system. And once that starts
32:28
happening, then your challenge is a
32:30
really fun one, which is of all the
32:31
things that are coming, which one should
32:33
we do? Because it turned out we were
32:34
getting more than we could handle. But
32:37
that's a great problem to have all of
32:39
those changes. And for lack of a better
32:41
phrase, at Moonshot, we call that
32:42
utility performance management, UPM. And
32:46
we have models for what we would seek.
32:48
and we're just about to launch a project
32:50
uh in the Great Lakes where we're going
32:52
to systematically be building those
32:55
tools, but one of the things I've
32:57
realized is how to make sure they're
33:00
customized or sized to smaller, less
33:03
resourced utilities because one of the
33:05
things I was able to do at DC Water is I
33:07
had a whole legal team. I had all these
33:09
people. The same tool that worked at a
33:11
DC water scale won't work in a smaller
33:14
community um in anywhere in the country.
33:17
So, we've got some work to do to make
33:19
sure we scale it to the audience that we
33:21
seek. And it probably are going to be
33:23
starting with one or two things rather
33:25
than the full suite. But what I found at
33:28
DC waters once you get momentum and the
33:31
we went to a utility in in the Midwest
33:34
helping them with innovation on
33:35
technology that was the question and
33:37
this is the other point that Moonshot
33:40
focuses on. I don't believe we have a
33:43
what problem in the water sector. If you
33:45
go to Wettech or ACE or any of these,
33:48
there's a horde of innovations that are
33:50
out there ready to be implemented. The
33:52
what is very and it's not hard.
33:56
I don't the local people we work with
33:58
are so smart and hardworking. They just
33:59
don't have the time. It's not hard for
34:00
an organization like mine with
34:02
experienced folks to go in and say,
34:03
"Here's five things you could do."
34:05
That's the what. Where we find most of
34:08
the challenges are, and this is scales
34:09
to every utility of size is the how.
34:12
I've got union issues. I've got
34:14
personnel who are suspicious that this
34:16
change is going to take their job away
34:18
or have them do something they don't
34:19
know how to do. That's or there's I know
34:22
at DC water this was true. The
34:23
maintenance crews and the engineering
34:25
crews maintenance felt that engineering
34:27
was engineering stuff that maintenance
34:28
didn't or didn't ask maintenance and
34:30
engineering felt that maintenance was
34:32
hold there's and that had been going on
34:34
for decades. typ yeah typical
34:36
interpersonal comp
34:38
>> personal and moonshot spends as much
34:40
time if not more on that not the what
34:42
because that's actually not the thing
34:44
about a utility that hasn't had a lot of
34:45
innovation is there's a lot of what I
34:47
would call lowhanging what's there a lot
34:49
of things again it's they're great
34:51
people working hard they just haven't
34:53
had the time or money to implement so
34:55
figuring out what's are not hard how an
34:58
organization with limited resources can
35:00
adopt something new what kind of work do
35:03
we need to do with your personnel
35:04
before you do any innovation so that
35:07
they are encouraged not failing like I
35:09
always say let's have innovation be with
35:12
and for your people not to and at them
35:16
and all too often innovation is in that
35:18
second category the folks first time
35:20
they hear of it is when someone walks in
35:21
and say oh we're changing this way we do
35:23
things and the team has never been asked
35:25
their opinion never been a part of the
35:27
process and it feel like something's
35:28
being imposed on them that they don't
35:30
understand that's going to fail or at
35:32
least be slow and challenging every
35:36
single time. And that's a our that's an
35:38
own goal. We did that to ourselves. We
35:40
can do that right. And Moonshot spends a
35:43
lot of time with the utility on the
35:45
ground. We start with operators. I've
35:47
got a whole slew of really highly
35:48
trained operators on our team. We want
35:50
to make sure the operations staff are
35:52
heard and listened to. We call it humble
35:54
listening before we go to any solution
35:57
finding. And it's amazing what that kind
35:59
of what that the doors that that opens.
36:02
Mhm.
36:02
>> Yeah.
36:03
>> Yeah. That that's one of the points that
36:05
you just made was one of those early
36:08
messages that I I read an essay that you
36:10
wrote shortly after I started at 120
36:13
where you were you were talking about
36:15
how um innovators like 120 water, you
36:19
know, it's annoying to have someone like
36:22
us come in and say, "Hey, you need a
36:24
smart technology." Instead of saying,
36:26
"Hey, it's the people that are smart."
36:29
And we don't message that we're smart.
36:32
We message that our technology helps you
36:34
be digital about it, maybe helps you get
36:36
some efficiencies, but the people that
36:38
you hire, the people around the room at
36:40
a utility are smart, capable problem
36:43
solvers. And as good as our software is,
36:45
it never can dig a hole or put a shovel
36:47
in the dirt. um it'll it can only help
36:50
you make some mar marginal um
36:52
>> improvements and insights and hopefully
36:54
help me help you work better. And I
36:56
think
36:58
>> you now on the flip side get to do that
37:00
same experience where you honor the fact
37:03
that the people that you work with are
37:06
smart problem solvers. It's more about
37:08
sequence
37:10
um having some structure to think about
37:13
implementation um more than it is um
37:17
>> the actual technology.
37:18
>> Yeah. More than it is about like well
37:19
you need all these technologies.
37:21
>> I I I would say two things. One is I
37:23
always admired from the very beginning
37:25
when I was I know it wasn't the very
37:27
beginning but for me early on in your
37:29
evolution as a company I felt you were
37:32
really good listeners and you were
37:33
understanding what the challenge was
37:35
that you were overcoming and you started
37:37
there not with I'm coming in I'm smarter
37:39
than you and I've got something that no
37:41
here's a challenge that we know you have
37:44
we've listened and heard we'll listen to
37:45
your team but we have some thoughts
37:46
about how to help you overcome a
37:48
challenge that you have. I thought you
37:49
did that really well. Um the imperative
37:53
on this is it could not be more uh
37:56
fundamental. I believe no matter what
37:59
funding there is obviously
38:00
administrations have changed and all the
38:02
rest and where's there
38:04
yes that matters but ultimately I think
38:07
it doesn't matter no matter what the
38:09
level of federal funding it's not enough
38:13
the capital short fund I've seen dollar
38:15
numbers from 90 billion to 110 billion a
38:18
year capital shortfall that's for known
38:20
projects I found at DC waters there was
38:22
another hundred billion in projects that
38:25
wasn't on our list yet because we hadn't
38:26
looked Yeah.
38:27
>> Yeah.
38:27
>> I think the notion of what that number
38:29
is is huge. And if we just keep doing
38:32
what we've always done, we fail because
38:34
we don't have enough revenue. The notion
38:37
of working with the balance sheet and
38:40
systematically implementing projects
38:42
that may cost a little more upfront but
38:44
then offer permanent savings and
38:47
creating systems that drive that
38:49
continuously over time. To me, it's the
38:51
only way we solve this. And that becomes
38:54
and here's the great reason I formed
38:56
great is wrong word but the reason I'm
38:58
formed moonshot is the places that need
39:01
that the most are the ones without help
39:04
are least able to access it not because
39:07
they aren't hardworking good they're
39:08
amazing people given what they do I run
39:10
the backhoe I send out the bills my
39:12
wife's sitting over there and she's
39:14
where they're they're multitasking every
39:16
day um it's just they don't have the
39:19
time or wherewithal to implement the
39:21
projects that would put their utility in
39:23
a sustainable path and we have to do
39:26
that at every size. It's it's the yes
39:30
the ones that are less resourced are the
39:32
ones that need it the most but all
39:34
utilities need it and I know at DC water
39:36
every year I I've told this story we
39:39
changed the way we presented our case to
39:41
rateayers and I felt I had two cases I
39:43
had to make to a rateayer and did it
39:45
personally in 65 rate hearings while I
39:48
was there and the first case was can I
39:51
prove to you that this year we are more
39:55
efficient with your money than we were
39:57
last year. It costs us less money to
40:00
replace a lead service line. It costs us
40:02
less money to replace a fire hydrant. It
40:03
costs us less money to treat a gallon of
40:05
waste water because of the things we're
40:08
doing on your behalf. And you should ask
40:10
that and demand that of us every year,
40:13
which requires the innovations I've been
40:15
talking about. I've got to prove to our
40:17
rate base that we're doing better this
40:19
year than last year. That opens the door
40:21
for the second conversation, which is I
40:23
do need more of your revenue. And I got
40:26
to prove to you that there's value to
40:28
you and the work we will do with that
40:30
money. But the qu you shouldn't even let
40:33
me ask that question unless you know
40:35
this is not a bloated public agency all
40:37
that stereotype being inefficient. No,
40:39
I've just proven to you we're efficient.
40:40
And by the way, we're going to come back
40:41
next year and be even more efficient.
40:44
The revenue that I need is for projects
40:46
that make this city a better city. You
40:48
know that flooding down by the river
40:50
near your neighborhood. And by the way,
40:52
in our capital project, one overlay
40:54
there's there's likelihood of failure
40:56
and consequence of failure. Sort of
40:58
classic asset management. The other
41:00
overlay is we need to do work in every
41:02
neighborhood of the city so that
41:04
everybody who's investing in us sees
41:06
something visual and it sort of
41:08
connected to them that's benefiting. So
41:11
we make sure every part of the city was
41:13
benefiting from our capital program. So
41:15
we could say, you know, this money that
41:16
we're asking for, that flooding problem
41:18
down on Beach Road that you've had for
41:19
the last 30 years, we're going to solve
41:20
that. That's the kind of thing we're
41:22
doing it. And people are like, oh, I get
41:24
that. That makes a difference to me. So
41:27
anyways, uh it's it's something that
41:29
every utility I think we fail as a
41:33
sector if we don't systematically adopt
41:36
the environmental, public health, and
41:38
balance sheet projects. And the answer
41:41
is we can. They exist. The question is
41:44
how to systematically do it and that's
41:45
what Moonshot seeks to do with
41:46
communities all over.
41:47
>> Yeah. And you mentioned earlier too this
41:49
concept that I
41:51
>> I find as you know as solution providers
41:54
in the space the biggest challenge um is
41:58
scaling a solution down. Like we love
42:00
thinking about scale like oh can this
42:02
work in DC water? this work in Denver,
42:05
but like can you scale the offering or
42:08
the solution or the pricing, the
42:09
packaging to meet the need of
42:14
>> of the water utility that has
42:16
>> two and a half employees. Um, and and I
42:20
I think that's
42:22
I I love that that's what Moonshot has
42:24
done is like saying, "Hey, let's take
42:26
this and focus on scale, but can it
42:29
scale
42:31
to the lowest?" And
42:32
>> we're not perfect at that yet. We're
42:33
still working on that as well because
42:35
many of the people at Moonshot, we've
42:37
got an incredible roster of ex CEOs,
42:40
exchief engineers, operators, research
42:43
scientists. Our view is when we meet a
42:46
utility, we can send someone to talk to
42:49
someone at the utility at any level
42:50
where it's a peer.
42:53
>> So, because that opens the door
42:54
automatically when an operator knows
42:56
they're talking to an operator and they
42:57
start having operator- like
42:58
conversations. I can't do that when
43:01
talking to the GM or the board of
43:03
director. I could do that. But we want
43:05
to be able to meet a utility in every
43:08
place. Um but the the challenge of how
43:11
to scale
43:13
big utility implementation to small
43:17
utilities where personnel is usually the
43:18
big we can find financing. Some of these
43:21
have a return on investment that private
43:23
financing is possible because you could
43:25
share the savings with an investor and
43:27
move quickly.
43:29
um the that challenge is people that oh
43:32
gosh I've got two operators who's going
43:34
to be able to operate this well that's a
43:36
question we like because of okay here's
43:38
let's here's a plan um but our notion
43:41
I'll just quickly chart this out we want
43:43
we are building an agenda uh I call it
43:46
the plus three agenda for lack of a
43:48
better phrase to think of a better one
43:50
but what are the 12 utilities are far
43:52
more alike than they're different with
43:54
lift stations pump stations what are the
43:57
12 most common steps that a utility
43:59
could take that will improve performance
44:01
and save money. Those two requirements.
44:04
Second, what is a streamline assessment
44:07
process starting with this humble
44:08
listening and then what we call
44:10
collaborative ingenuity of which of
44:12
those 12 are relevant to any utility? We
44:15
can get there pretty quickly. So,
44:17
there's three. All right. Now, we've got
44:19
a little agenda for your utility. Now
44:21
the third is how do we implement and
44:23
scale the three solutions that will save
44:25
you money improve performance and then
44:27
get to finance and our view is that
44:30
process can be pretty quick and like I
44:33
said because these are focused on return
44:35
on investment projects it's also subject
44:38
to potential private funding which can
44:41
move much faster. We're going to save
44:42
$100. Well 20 of it are going to go back
44:44
to the bank that funded this and 80 are
44:46
going to go to you or whatever the split
44:48
is. But as a result, you don't have to
44:50
put up any of your rate revenue up front
44:53
in case you have a debt cap or operating
44:55
deficit. And what a story you have to
44:58
tell. Um, uh, we had a utility that we
45:01
helped and we we encouraged them and
45:03
they're now putting in a waste recovery
45:05
system that's going to generate cash
45:06
flow. It's going to ch all these good
45:09
and they went from being a utility being
45:11
attacked in their community to doing a
45:12
press conference with the congresswoman
45:14
and the mayor about this whole new path
45:17
they were taking. We weren't on the
45:18
podium. we weren't even mentioned. We're
45:20
in the background sort of like cheering
45:22
on um and and they're just they're off
45:26
to the races. That's the moodshot.
45:27
They're on their way and that's what we
45:29
would like to see and it's possible
45:31
almost anywhere in the country.
45:33
>> Yeah. I Well, I just George I want to
45:35
thank you. I mean I knew you know I
45:37
obviously we're familiar with uh you and
45:39
familiar with Moonshot and have an
45:41
appreciation for what you're doing, but
45:42
I will tell you this this time with you
45:44
have given me like I said you were
45:46
meeting an unmet need. you're not only
45:48
meeting an unmet need, but you're
45:50
probably tackling the hardest um thing
45:53
to tackle in this industry at a macro
45:55
level, which is systematic change and
45:58
getting us to think differently and
46:00
appropriately about what we actually
46:02
need to solve for in order to be more
46:05
innovative to, you know, order for us to
46:07
be more sustainable. and just thank you
46:09
for allowing Moonshot to exist to really
46:12
tackle those what I'm calling first mile
46:14
issues that if we don't tackle and solve
46:16
in an industry,
46:18
you know, I I worry what change we're
46:20
actually going to be able to make. So,
46:23
>> well, thank you both for having me. Like
46:24
I said, I'm a huge admirer of not only
46:27
what your company does, but how your
46:29
company has tackled those same questions
46:31
so successfully.
46:33
Wow. Blessings to you. Um, and second,
46:36
thank you for as well.
46:37
MoonshotMissions.org is our website.
46:39
People can see the scale and depth of
46:42
the people we have. They're such good
46:43
people. They
46:44
>> talked about I'm so impressed with the
46:46
people you will you can you just kind of
46:48
brag on your team for a minute.
46:50
>> Sure. We just hired We just hired
46:53
someone on last Monday and the Monday
46:54
before. The woman we hired got her
46:58
training in Louisiana and was has been
47:00
in eight years helping small systems as
47:02
an operator. The person we hired before
47:04
that was running facilities in Milwaukee
47:07
waste facilities and it started as a
47:10
line operator and worked his way up and
47:12
both of them love the have always wanted
47:15
to have a job where they get to help
47:17
their peers in communities and it's this
47:20
great sense of worth in the work. It's
47:23
amazing. And you look at our team, we've
47:25
got classware drinking water wastewater
47:27
operators. We have research scientists
47:29
at the PhD level who got their PhDs at
47:32
wastewater and drinking water
47:33
facilities. We've got engineering pees,
47:36
probably 15 pees on the team. We've got
47:39
a whole slew of of um ex CEOs like Andy
47:43
Kicken from Camden County, Michael Muka,
47:45
Shannon Gordy who ran Harrisburg Capital
47:49
Region Water. Um, so we have folks that
47:52
can communicate, but the what binds us
47:54
together is this great sense and love of
47:57
the sector, desire to serve and belief
48:01
that we have a model here that isn't
48:03
just solving a problem and kicking the
48:05
can down the road. we can help solve it
48:07
in a systems way which actually could
48:10
yield a sustainable outcome for this
48:12
essential service that does butress
48:14
every single job and every single person
48:17
in life form in any community. What's
48:20
more important than that? So, we love
48:21
doing it and like I said, I keep
48:23
watching you guys so I can learn from
48:25
the masters. Um, but it's it's been a
48:29
delight. I I love the team and I love
48:30
the work.
48:31
>> Yeah. Well, you know, we can't thank you
48:33
enough for joining us. And thank you um
48:35
to all of you who tuned in and listened
48:37
in. Um we love making this podcast. This
48:40
has been um so much fun to have
48:42
conversations with amazing folks who
48:45
make water work. And if you know of
48:47
anyone else who makes water work and you
48:49
want to hear um hear from them, please
48:52
shoot us a note and let us know who else
48:53
you want to hear from. Um we love George
48:56
and George, if you have any uh any
48:58
guests, send them our way. Um, we we
49:01
love like-minded folks who uh who can
49:03
challenge us to think better.
49:05
>> Absolutely. You, like I said, I've I've
49:08
known of and watched you since the very
49:10
beginning, and I love the story arc.
49:12
What you're doing is a blessing for this
49:14
actor, and so anything I can do to be of
49:16
service, and there are a lot of voices
49:17
out there, so I'll be glad to help on
49:19
that front.
49:20
>> Thanks, George.
49:21
>> Thanks.
49:23
>> I love George. He's always inspiring to
49:26
talk to and I love the insight um and
49:28
the energy that he brings. Um yeah, what
49:31
did you take away from that
49:32
conversation?
49:33
>> Oh my gosh. I mean, so much. I mean, we
49:35
could have multiple conversations with
49:36
him about so many different topics, but
49:38
I think um just my further appreciation
49:41
for what Moonshot is doing and I think
49:44
the the ultimate problem that they're
49:46
solving, which is the root cause of why
49:49
innovation is so stagnant in water. Now,
49:52
as I think about 120 water and and where
49:55
we've actually failed,
49:57
>> it's on the change management component.
50:00
>> We have failed to um educate
50:03
procurement. We have failed to educate
50:05
all of the stakeholders um around the
50:08
change, the innovation, the adoption.
50:10
And I think so much of that uh success
50:14
in transforming an industry and bringing
50:16
innovation into a stagnant industry
50:18
industry starts with change management.
50:20
I just love that Moonshot is addressing
50:22
that um for systems that need it the
50:25
most. That's what I took away.
50:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And that that's a
50:28
theme that I really have been thinking a
50:30
lot too about is that that change
50:32
management aspect. And um to your point,
50:35
like when you're working so fast, it can
50:37
be easy to just say, well, I need to
50:39
adjust address the problem in front of
50:41
me. Y
50:42
>> instead of taking a step back and also
50:44
saying how can I modify the system that
50:48
may have created the problem or is this
50:50
an opportunity to rewrite the system in
50:52
a way that makes us um better and um
50:56
gives us a better framework for
50:57
decision-m for the long term.
50:59
>> Absolutely.
51:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. So I I just love um every
51:04
time I get to talk to George one I mean
51:08
he he sings our praises. It always feels
51:10
good. right
51:12
>> to talk to George when he starts with um
51:14
with with how much he admires us. Um but
51:17
he's been a cheerleader for um for the
51:20
industry and for um the way he is
51:22
scaling down what they do is just um
51:25
it's just amazing. I can't wait to watch
51:26
the impact that they have.
51:28
>> Yeah. And I hope this gives more
51:29
exposure to systems that aren't aware of
51:31
Moonshot and and what they're doing. I
51:33
would definitely encourage any any folks
51:35
who are not aware of Moonshot to go
51:37
check out their website. They are doing
51:39
incredible work and um and certainly go
51:42
support them.
51:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. And there's no problem too
51:44
big or too small that they won't um take
51:46
a look at. That's right.
51:47
>> So, and thank you so much for joining us
51:49
on the Make Water Work podcast. We love
51:51
this opportunity to have conversations
51:53
with folks like George. And we love
51:55
hearing from you. Um hearing the impact
51:57
that these conversations are having or
51:59
anyone that you want to hear from who
52:01
you know makes water work. So, send them
52:03
our way, like, share, follow. Um it
52:07
really helps us. um amplify this
52:09
message. Thanks for listening to the
52:11
Make Water Work podcast. If you enjoyed
52:14
today's episode, please take a moment to
52:16
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52:21
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52:25
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52:27
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