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Three Approaches to Life: 2. Needs and Desires · Gabriel Ellis, PhD | The Curious Mind Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to the Curious Mind podcast.
0:02
My name is Gabriel Ellis. I'm a psychologist,
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psychotherapist, PhD, scholar of Buddhism and I'm generally
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interested in deep psychological issues, topics to dive into to
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describe a bit of my psychotherapeutic practice and
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to introduce you to a wide range of topics that concern the depth
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of our mind, the spirit, its development and some obstacles
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that we come to across the way. I started a series last time of
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three approaches to life and last time I described the virtue
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or value oriented approach to life.
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To summarize the importance things to remember about the
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virtue approach is that it's supposed to make people more
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independent from the outside world, Not only from the
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external outside world, but also independent from the, as I call
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it, the internal, external, outside world.
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Which means to be more independent from my own
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feelings, from my moods, from my habits and so forth.
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Very briefly, the difficulty in the virtue oriented approach is
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the implementation. If I don't do it properly then
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it will result in more neurotic kind of consequences in terms of
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self-control issues or a sense of an emptiness generally.
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A virtue oriented approach is rather rare in today's world.
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It's you can find it more commonly and people who are
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religious, spiritual or philosophically minded, in
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contrast to the virtue that was basically in the center of
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philosophy and religious life in Greek and Roman philosophy, but
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also in medieval world and its orientation towards
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Christianity. In contrast to that, I would
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like to describe today the approach to life of the needs
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oriented person. I think that this is very much
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widespread today. Why?
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Because a need orientation promises to make people
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satisfied and happy, and I think that this is a model that most
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people would like to subscribe to.
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Often enough they run into issues that I will cover towards
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the end of my presentation today, and when it's more
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problematic, it leads to the third approach, which is the
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self avoidant approach which I will describe next time.
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So the needs oriented approach is very widespread and that
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leads to the question first of all of the basics.
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What are needs? And my perspective and my
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definition needs a reference points, reference points and
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evaluation standards of the unconscious and when they are
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fulfilled, the unconscious provides us and gratifies us
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with good feelings. So to put it in more actual
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psychological terms, when the conscious ego satisfies the
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needs of the unconscious, and needs are always needs of the
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unconscious, then the unconscious rewards us with
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feelings that we as conscious egos enjoy feelings of
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happiness, of joy and of satisfaction.
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So needs belong in the realm of the unconscious.
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They cannot be directly altered or changed, and we as conscious
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egos we depend on either knowing them explicitly those needs of
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the unconscious, or to intuit them more on a gut level and to
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follow them without being able to describe how and what we are
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actually doing. What is first of all important
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to understand is that needs exist on the spectrum.
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On the one end of the spectrum we have the highly abstract
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source needs, and on the other end of the spectrum we have much
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more differentiated needs of everyday life.
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Those source needs are the most important fundamental needs that
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drive us and that all humans, all people have in common.
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In fact, two of them belong also to the annual realm, the first
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months. The first need is the need for
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love, love or recognition. The second source need is the
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need for power and influence, and the third one is the need
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for insight or truth. So this is on the most abstract
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level. We usually don't encounter those
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needs popping up in daily life. It's more important to know them
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and to deal with them on the path of self development,
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therapy or understanding the path that we are on.
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One step below the highest abstract level of source needs
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is the second differentiation. And to give you some examples of
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how, for example, the source need of love differentiates.
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It differentiates into the needs for recognition, respect and
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appreciation, belonging, friendship, family, interaction,
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general love and desire, desire for other people for connection.
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The source need of power and influence differentiates into
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the need for power over the outside world, which means
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circumstances outside other people and the need for
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influence over the inside world to be able to change my path, my
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feelings, my thoughts, my energy, my actions, my
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communications. And there are also needs for
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self realization and self efficacy.
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And these I would generally count also as differentiated
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differentiated versions of the need for power and control.
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Then we have the need for insight or truth and this might
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differentiate into the needs for knowledge, learning,
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development, self development, spirituality and to generally
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deal with concepts of metaphysical truths.
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And apart from that, apart from these very fundamental source
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needs, there are some that are a combination of these and that
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are not that easy or simple to categorize.
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And these are needs for safety. For example, protection, health,
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beauty, aesthetics. Aesthetics in art, aesthetics in
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my own body, clothing appearance, the needs for
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freedom, eliteness, the need for likeness and life.
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So now we have the most abstract level of the source needs and
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the second level of differentiation that I just
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described. On the other end of the
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spectrum, we have the most differentiated level of everyday
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life. This is when we wake up in the
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morning and we have the need to get to the kitchen, have a cup
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of coffee, dress in a certain way, still feel tired, wanting
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to rest, going to work, being tired of the feedback of the
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bosses and so on. So this is the everyday level
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that in which we encounter our needs in direct in exchange with
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the outside world. What is interesting is that
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usually in everyday life, if people are not psychological or
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philosophical, they have no idea at which level of
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differentiation they are interacting with the outside or
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inside world, and they just try to manage it.
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They try to fulfill the need on whatever level it appears and
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they don't know this hierarchical structure.
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Now, when we deal with needs and when we deal with this need
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orientation, we run into three fundamental possible problems.
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The one problem is fulfillability.
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The second problem is, does happiness occur when I fulfill
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my need? And the third one is possible
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negative consequences of my actions.
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To give you an example, let's say in an everyday, you know,
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very mundane level, I go about my day, I work and in the
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evening I want to go out with friends and have some drinks.
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So this is the very normal everyday level of differentiated
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needs. Now, the possible problem of
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fulfillability is that if I am dependent on the evening with my
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friends to go well in order to be satisfied with my day with my
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evening, then at first of all depends on the fulfillability of
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those conditions. Which means that if I'm somehow
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somehow hindered in going out, or my friends cannot go out, or
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the bar that we go to is surprisingly closed or full, or
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or the weather is bad and it doesn't allow us to drive
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whatever it is or the designated driver is not coming.
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There might be all kinds of different problems that
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interfere with the basic conditions in the outside world
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of fulfilling this very specific desire, need that I have.
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So this is fulfillability. If I am dependent on this way of
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fulfilling my need to go out with my friends and something
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obstructs that I will be unhappy in the evening as a needs
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oriented person. The second problem that might
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occur is the happiness in the fulfillment.
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So let's say there is no problem with going out with meeting.
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Everything goes as planned. I go out to my friends.
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I have just as usual, 3-4 drinks.
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I get home, but somehow I'm not really satisfied and happy with
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how the evening went. Whatever it is, I might
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attribute it to some reason or another.
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Maybe the conversations were boring or I didn't feel good
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somehow, but the conditions were met.
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Everyone came. I went.
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It should have been fine, but it wasn't.
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So I met the conditions that I set up, but it was not as
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rewarding as I planned it to be as I expected it to be.
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This is the second possible issue in the needs orientation,
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which is that the conditions that I set out and that I
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applied do not yield the result and the benefit, the reward that
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I wanted. The third one is that even if
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the conditions are met and I'm satisfied with the satisfying
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the needs and hence satisfied with the outcome, it might lead
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to negative consequences. So let's say I'm meeting my
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friends. It's all fun, we have a great
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time, exactly as I planned it, but because I came home late
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two, 3:00, maybe I was drunk, but I had a great time.
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Maybe my partner is not happy with that.
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Maybe I'm hungover the next day when I wanted to organize
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something with my kids. Maybe I needed to work
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something. Maybe I needed to do something
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on my own. But because I had this specific
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fun in the evening that was very satisfying back then, it
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obstructs me in the satisfaction of satisfying my needs in the
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morning. So it might be that the
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satisfaction of needs of specific needs lead to negative
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consequences that obstruct other satisfactions afterwards.
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These are the three main issues that I can well obstructions
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that I can run into when I am needs oriented.
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Now, when we come to talk about those needs, how is it actually
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that those needs exist at all? That we know them, that we know
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how to satisfy them? It might sound like a banal
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question to us adults, but it must have had developed somehow
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right as kids. So here are two things important
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to keep in mind. One, when we grow up as kids,
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it's the families, our parents usually, who plant the first
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seeds of identifying needs and how to satisfy them.
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The baby is crying. The parents interpret it as
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hunger. This is the need.
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And then they follow the consequences of this
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interpretation, which is, oh, if the kid is hungry, let we let us
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feed it milk, whatever it is pure, and so on.
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So the parents project a need onto the kid, and then they
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follow it up with the supposed satisfaction of that need.
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The kid, the baby in this example, yet doesn't know what
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exactly the need is and what it what it wants, how it wants it
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to be satisfied. We can say that the body has a
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certain intelligence there, but the psyche, the mind of the baby
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is not yet so developed that it would have differentiated
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understanding or knowledge of these needs.
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So kids we all grew up with having needs and the
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satisfaction projected on us by our parents.
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And then the older we get, the more and there's the second
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level, the more it leaves the family life and it moves on to
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peers, friends, other authorities, or more general to
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the society. So beyond our first caretakers,
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it's society that tells us what needs we have and how to satisfy
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them. And the grossest kind of
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exemplification of this is our product and capitalist oriented
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society that tries to connect source needs for love and power
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with the product, right. So we have sports companies like
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Nike for example, and it would say, look, we all have you
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consumer have this need for freedom and we tell you exactly
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how to satisfy this need for freedom with it, which is with
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our running shoes or you know, as you can see some ads for
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sodas, for Coca-Cola, Fanta, Pepsi, whatever.
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It always shows those nice, beautiful, happy young people,
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which of course suggests, and it's anyway, it's that our need
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for companionship, for friendship, easy time,
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connection, love and so on might be satisfied with their soda for
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whatever reason. And of course there are many
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Gray areas in that as well. Society generally provides us
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with many tools to satisfy our needs, be it culture, be it
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music, be it clothes, food, items, whatever.
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It is. Our culture is partly based on
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and built on the structured satisfaction of needs that we
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have, but it also tells us which needs we supposedly need to
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have. You need to buy this new phone.
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You need to redo your interior of your apartment every couple
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of years. These are, of course, the
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insinuations of society that come into us and are not
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necessarily ours. Well, neither are the the needs
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that are projected on us by our primary family system.
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So when we grow older, when we mature, not necessarily, but
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hopefully we mature into questioning what we have
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acquired from our family and from society.
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And we start to ask ourselves what is it actually that I want?
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Leave aside what people tell me that I should want and how I
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should satisfy those needs, What is it that actually I want?
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What are the products that I want and need?
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What are the services that I need?
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What are the interpersonal needs that I want to have satisfied?
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And how do I want to go about the satisfaction of these needs?
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This is maturation becoming more individual, more differentiated,
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more independent from the insinuations of our caregivers
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and our society. And why is that important?
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It's important because the supposed happiness, joy and fun
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that are supposed to come from the satisfaction of needs
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doesn't come from the satisfaction of the needs of
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society. It comes from the satisfaction
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of the needs of the unconscious of my unconscious.
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So this is the level inside of me that I address.
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I have to understand what is my unconscious?
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What does it want? How do I satisfy it?
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How do I go about it? And so on.
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It becomes a very individual fingerprint, so to speak.
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I have my own spectrum. I have my own very individuated
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profile of needs and I have to find out what that is in order
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to maximize this approach of needs orientation, so that I can
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become happy and satisfied through the rewards of the
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unconscious, that recognizes that I'm satisfying its needs in
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the most direct way. Now, if someone is successful in
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this needs orientation, it comes with certain benefits.
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So one benefit is of course the satisfaction and joy, the good
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feelings as the reward of the unconscious.
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If someone is good at it, they're also competent in
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understanding. And here I'm Speaking of the
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conscious, the ego, that they are competent in understanding
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what they need and how they want to apply it, to realize it.
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And it comes with certain degrees of freedom.
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This is the maturity and needs satisfaction that I don't need
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to satisfy my need right now in exactly one way, but that I'm
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flexible. I have my degrees of freedom.
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I can delay the satisfaction of a certain need when it's
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necessary, and I have flexibility in terms of how I
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want to apply it. In the interpersonal realm, a
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needs orientation also has certain very noticeable
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consequences. Generally, if someone is
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successful in needs oriented, they are quite approachable and
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open. They can appear as interesting
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and caring. Why?
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Because needs oriented. People acknowledge their own
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needs for closeness, for connection.
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But because they understand how they are, they equally recognize
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those needs on the other. So when I talk to someone, yes,
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I want to fulfill my needs for connection and power and so on.
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But I understand that the other has the same.
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And I understand that ideally we both satisfy our social needs in
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order to have a satisfying, happy, fulfilling interaction,
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social interaction afterwards. So This is why needs oriented
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people usually have a strong emphasis on social needs as well
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and they are warm and satisfying to other people because they
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recognize their needs too. Now if someone is not fully
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skilled in this, it might lead to an issue.
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The issue here is that if I am fully aware of my needs and how
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I want to satisfy them, I am aware of both of my social needs
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as well as my non social needs which is my time alone, my
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hobbies, reading books, just being peaceful, without other
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people around and so on. Both of them exist side by side
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inside of me. Now if I'm just a little bit
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less skilled, I might be in a situation where I spend a lot of
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time with other people and then I recognize the need coming up
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inside of me, which means my unconscious lets me know that I
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want to spend time alone. Now how do I deal with that?
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Because in a real life situation, I made-up this
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appointment with my friends. We somehow agreed that we would
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spend the day together. Now, during the day that needs
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comes up and I recognize that I don't want to postpone that.
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I don't want to delay it. I would be dissatisfied
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afterwards if I did. So here I'm a little bit in the
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dilemma, because if I fulfill my need to be alone, to read
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something, to just have quiet, then I will be offensive to my
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friends. I will frustrate them because I
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pulled out earlier then we agreed.
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And if I ignore this needs then I will be unhappy with myself.
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I will be frustrated and hollow with myself because I ignored a
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need and the consequence of ignoring needs is always some
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sort of punishment from the unconscious.
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So this is a particular issue that people who are needs
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oriented run in social run into in social situations because
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they might appear as selfish, because they're listening to
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their own non social needs just as much as to the needs to
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satisfy social needs and to satisfy other people.
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And if people do that quite consistently, they might get the
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reputation that they are selfish actually because they don't vibe
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with a group that much. They more listen to themselves.
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And along with that, there are other dangers of non
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fulfillment. Generally, if I don't fulfill my
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needs, there is the danger that I develop anxiety, that I
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develop depression, disorientation, a low
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self-confidence, feelings of powerlessness, or just generally
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suffering from a lack of self efficacy.
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Why is that? Because when I systematically
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ignore the impulses from the unconscious to satisfy my needs
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and I act against it for whatever reason, because I'm
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stressed at work or I'm convinced to satisfy other
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people's needs, my partners, my families, my bosses, and so on.
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So I'm not listening to the unconscious and the impulses to
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satisfy my unconsciousness needs.
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My unconscious will retaliate by weakening the contact, by
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weakening the connection with my conscious ego.
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It will stop telling me how to do things and what to do.
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It will stop telling me what needs I have and how I should
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ideally satisfy them. And in the process, when I do
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that more and more and I neglect myself, or I neglect my
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unconscious needs and the communication between the two of
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us is suffering, I will become hollow and empty.
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Why? Because this voice that is
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supposed to be there, this gut feeling, this intuition, this
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voice is from the unconscious of what to do, they are not there.
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And then I will feel at a loss. I want to be happy but I don't
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know how. And then what easily happens is
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because I cannot listen to my inside.
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I will look outside and I will ask people, I will ask society
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how do you guys do it? I will watch Instagram photos,
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documentaries, movies. I will ask the Internet forums
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how, how to be happy. We'll find self help books and
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I'll try to get cues from their lives.
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But here we're running again into the issue that I described
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before. Where do we get the first
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knowledges about needs and the satisfaction from parents and
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from society, from the outside world?
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But it's not mine. So it's understandable as it is,
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that if I'm struggling with happiness with my own, with the
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satisfaction of my own needs, it's understandable as it is
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that I'm looking outside as clear it is as well, that when
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I'm applying the formula of someone else, it will probably
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not hit on the head. The satisfaction of it will not
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be perchance the satisfaction of my unconscious needs.
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So it will be a hit and miss sometimes.
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There will be something satisfying there, but it will be
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mostly again a feeling of emptiness and wholeness inside.
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And this is something that I often encounter in therapy.
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Beat in the form of depression or beat in the form of anxiety.
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So there is this big danger of non fulfillment in this approach
27:27
of needs orientation. But there is also a problem in
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fulfillment, a possible problem in fulfillment.
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The problem here is, but it turns into a navel gazing
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because let's say again, I'm a needs oriented person.
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I want to keep up the communication of my unconscious
27:47
with my unconscious and so I'm always looking to the inside.
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How do I feel now? What do I want to do now?
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The situation that I'm in, the conversation that I'm having,
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the job that I'm in, is it still good for me?
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Does it still this satisfy me? And so I'm becoming very
28:05
sensitive and vulnerable to the small fluctuations of feelings
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that I have from the inside. And now the unconscious that I'm
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dealing with, unfortunately, is not the most mature aspect of
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the spirit. It's quite regressive in fact.
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So it can be childish, it can be aggressive, it can be a little
28:26
behind, it can be stubborn. So when I enslave myself, when I
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become anxiously oriented towards the small fluctuations
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of my feelings, moods and the communications of the
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unconscious, it might lead to a dissatisfaction in the sense
28:51
that I will not be able to finely attune to satisfy
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everything that comes within. At some point I'm running in
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circles. At some point, there will always
29:02
be some dissatisfaction that I'm just not able to compensate and
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to fulfill. I'm with people.
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I will listen to the inside and say maybe you will need to step
29:13
back and spend some time alone. Then I spend some time alone,
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and that equally feels not fully satisfying because then I'm
29:19
missing somebody. I feel isolated.
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So there is this danger in fulfillment, in the sense that I
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will become the slave of the unconscious and the unconscious,
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whether it's random fluctuations, will keep me in a
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perpetual state of dissatisfaction and frustration.
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So this is the main problem with the need oriented approach, that
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I need to listen to me on my unconscious in order to be
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satisfied. But if I listen too much to it,
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I become enslaved, become anxiously attached to the
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signals from the unconscious, and on the social level, I will
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become more withdrawn and isolated.
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Not only because I'm listening mostly to my own needs, but I
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will perceive the need expression of other people as a
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crossing of my boundaries. They will suggest, hey, why
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don't you come over for drinks? Why don't we do that?
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And then I'm constantly into I need to first check myself.
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Is it good for me? I don't know.
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Then we have a conversation for 10 minutes to tell me something
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and then I will feel uncomfortable with how the
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conversation goes and I'll let them know.
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Look, this is a little bit too much for me now.
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It's all very needs oriented, but it becomes difficult and
30:47
awkward in the interaction and the social interaction because
30:51
there's too little space for the needs of the other person.
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OK, so this is what I tried to describe today.
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The approach to life and needs orientation.
31:04
The promise of fulfilment is joy and satisfaction.
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The possible problem is that it becomes neurotic that I will be
31:14
anxious not to be able to satisfy my needs, or I
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constantly run into conflicts of needs that cannot be
31:22
simultaneously satisfied. And then I end up suppressing
31:26
certain needs in the favor of others, to prioritize my career,
31:31
and hence to neglect my social field so that maybe I will
31:37
become successful at work, But isolated?
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That makes me unhappy. And because I cut off this topic
31:45
altogether from the unconscious, it leaves me at a loss of how to
31:49
satisfy it Again, how to approach people.
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These are the problems that I run into.
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Like I said in the beginning, most people I think would see
31:59
themselves as need oriented, but in the application of it, many
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of them for sure, the ones that I work with and the therapeutic
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context, many of them have slipped from a needs orientation
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into a self neglect as a self avoidance.
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And this is the third approach that I will come to discuss next
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time. Thank you for your attention.