Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Opening Up Libby, Burly Love; Are Victor Scott's Days Numbered?

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Opening Up Libby, Burly Love; Are Victor Scott's Days Numbered? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory. Jim
0:10
Speaker 1: Hayes along with Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn who is
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0:37
Speaker 1: Territory Shop dot com. Well, gentlemen, as we speak, the
0:43
Speaker 1: Cardinals are getting set to play an afternoon game. Last
0:46
Speaker 1: night they lost six to two on the road, and
0:51
Speaker 1: Matthew libertoor who's pitched wellness last couple of starts. But
0:55
Speaker 1: let's be honest, it's been an up and down season.
0:57
Speaker 1: Rand into trouble in the fifth three pitches and then
1:01
Speaker 1: gave up a grand slamp to Curves on a slider
1:04
Speaker 1: that didn't seem to be in a terrible position. So
1:08
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tap into your pitching knowledge. The slider was
1:13
Speaker 1: a pitch that was really effective for Lan for Libby
1:17
Speaker 1: in the early going. So when do you know when
1:20
Speaker 1: it's time to lay off a pitch where it could
1:23
Speaker 1: go south in a hurry, as it did last night.
1:26
Speaker 1: And Kyle, I'll start with you.
1:29
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to figure out here exactly what how
1:33
Speaker 2: that inning transpired, because one forty three pitches, if he
1:39
Speaker 2: had a chance to get out of that inning with
1:41
Speaker 2: one or two runs, and he's had forty pitches that
1:44
Speaker 2: have been a miracle, you just don't. You don't normally
1:47
Speaker 2: throw that many pitches and have a chance to get
1:48
Speaker 2: out of it. So yeah, it's probably a situation where
1:51
Speaker 2: he was almost out of it and just couldn't get
1:55
Speaker 2: out of it.
1:57
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I mean, I think.
2:02
Speaker 2: It's really tough when you're when you're talking about making
2:04
Speaker 2: adjustments and and changing what you're trying to do, and and.
2:09
Speaker 3: You know, when do you go away from a pitch?
2:11
Speaker 2: I don't know, especially if it's well located, Jim, it's
2:15
Speaker 2: really tough to sit there and second guess it. It
2:18
Speaker 2: could have just been a situation where Kurt said, Okay,
2:22
Speaker 2: here's my here's my scenario, and I think, uh, the
2:25
Speaker 2: slider says out pitch, I'm gonna take it away. And
2:29
Speaker 2: when a hitter makes that decision, h unless you are
2:32
Speaker 2: really in tune, uh and and kind of guessing lucky
2:36
Speaker 2: in that situation, sometimes there's not much you can do
2:40
Speaker 2: about it.
2:42
Speaker 1: I've always wondered this lance because I know you guys
2:46
Speaker 1: have been there have there been starts where you've had
2:49
Speaker 1: really good stuff and get hit around anyway, And then
2:53
Speaker 1: others starts where you thought you had crap and you
2:56
Speaker 1: end up going six scoreless, like I know that happened.
3:01
Speaker 1: That's the funny thing about baseball, isn't it that sometimes
3:04
Speaker 1: your good stuff gets hit.
3:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think most. I mean, if you
3:09
Speaker 4: think about thirty starts a year, you're looking at five
3:11
Speaker 4: starts a year where you actually feel good and feel
3:13
Speaker 4: like you have your A stuff, And I would say
3:16
Speaker 4: a couple of those starts will will probably be some
3:18
Speaker 4: of your worst starts of the year in a way
3:21
Speaker 4: which makes no sense. I think when you have better
3:24
Speaker 4: stuff and you feel like your stuff's good, you don't
3:26
Speaker 4: concentrate quite as much as you need to on This
3:30
Speaker 4: is my thing, or my feeling is you don't concentrate
3:33
Speaker 4: much on locations and stuff like that. You get caught
3:37
Speaker 4: up into more worried about your stuff than your hitters.
3:39
Speaker 4: Because you feel like it's good that day. Then you'll
3:41
Speaker 4: have games where you lock in both and then it's great.
3:44
Speaker 4: And then you have games where you feel terrible. You
3:46
Speaker 4: leave the bullpen, everything's terrible, don't know how muchy anybody out,
3:49
Speaker 4: And then you look up and you're in the seventh inning.
3:52
Speaker 4: Or you have games where everything hurts and you're out
3:54
Speaker 4: there and you're like, oh man, I'm hoping I can
3:56
Speaker 4: get through. You know, a couple of innings a night,
3:58
Speaker 4: and you look up and you have your longest star
4:00
Speaker 4: of the year and you're in paying most of it.
4:02
Speaker 4: So baseball is a weird game and you just got
4:04
Speaker 4: to mentally figure it out. But mentally, a lot of
4:07
Speaker 4: things happen worse. When you think you feel good and
4:09
Speaker 4: you think everything is gonna be great, you let your
4:12
Speaker 4: guard down a little bit, you don't lock in. But
4:15
Speaker 4: when you feel terrible nothing's going where you want it to,
4:18
Speaker 4: blah blah blah, you lock in a little differently and
4:20
Speaker 4: you figure out how to get through it. Or you
4:22
Speaker 4: can give up. And Kyle and I weren't the giving
4:25
Speaker 4: up type, so we would lock in and get through
4:27
Speaker 4: those games. And you know, we've seen we've seen guys
4:29
Speaker 4: give up. Unfortunately, that does happen. But you know, I
4:33
Speaker 4: don't think that was one thing with Libby yesterday. I
4:35
Speaker 4: think Libby just made you know, you're probably the third
4:38
Speaker 4: time that year, your third time through this, and that
4:41
Speaker 4: you got a lot of you know, a lot of
4:42
Speaker 4: variables that that kind of you know, happened that inning,
4:45
Speaker 4: that caused that pitch to happen, and you know, whether
4:48
Speaker 4: it's pitch sincuencing something that he's seen before in the
4:51
Speaker 4: same count, same spot, there's a lot of different ways
4:54
Speaker 4: to go about it. And then when you get those
4:56
Speaker 4: long innings, things speed up on you and you know
5:00
Speaker 4: you might a discount to him before, and he doesn't
5:03
Speaker 4: forget and he makes you.
5:05
Speaker 3: He makes you pay.
5:05
Speaker 4: So you know, that's why you gotta have quick innings
5:08
Speaker 4: and not have a bunch of things go wrong because
5:11
Speaker 4: they'll get away from you quick and one swing costing
5:13
Speaker 4: four runs last night, and that will happen, unfortunately.
5:16
Speaker 2: So Lettle little Jim, Jim Jim, I'm jumping in here.
5:20
Speaker 2: Let's let's look at so I'm just looking at these
5:22
Speaker 2: at bats here. Okay, you know, let's let's let's stay
5:24
Speaker 2: on Libby and let's take him through it here, all right.
5:27
Speaker 2: First at bat, uh, he goes with a two to
5:29
Speaker 2: two slider, chase down and away out of the zone, strikeout. Okay,
5:34
Speaker 2: that's probably if I had to guess, that's the book
5:37
Speaker 2: that he's got. How can we get to the slider
5:40
Speaker 2: down and away when you need to swing in this?
5:42
Speaker 3: Okay?
5:43
Speaker 2: Next to bat leads off the fourth inning. Okay, he
5:47
Speaker 2: goes curveball down in a way called strike, and then
5:51
Speaker 2: he comes back with a sinker that runs to the
5:53
Speaker 2: middle but comes back toward Kurtz. Where did that go?
5:56
Speaker 2: Groundball to second pace? That is what Libby was chasing
5:59
Speaker 2: in that situation, right. He was twenty pitches into the
6:02
Speaker 2: inning with bases loaded in one out, and if he
6:05
Speaker 2: gets to that ground ball, he's out of the inning
6:07
Speaker 2: with the defense at the Cardinals saf Okay. Now, when
6:09
Speaker 2: we go to the bottom of the fifth, all right,
6:11
Speaker 2: he's in a jam here with one of the better hitters,
6:13
Speaker 2: if not the best hitter on the team. He goes
6:16
Speaker 2: slider down away for a ball, slider swinging a miss,
6:19
Speaker 2: great location, sinker goes in, gets fouled off down and in.
6:25
Speaker 2: If he could, he probably wanted a ground ball on
6:26
Speaker 2: that pitch right there. He went for it, and then
6:29
Speaker 2: in his mind he gets to one, two, and I'm
6:31
Speaker 2: guessing he's like, all right, now, where's my strikeout. Pitch
6:34
Speaker 2: number four slider down in the dirt, didn't get the
6:36
Speaker 2: swing and miss. Pitch five was a forceingmer that probably
6:39
Speaker 2: was trying to elevate. Stayed middle away, middle height, all right,
6:43
Speaker 2: got a foul ball, probably got that one back. Lucky
6:46
Speaker 2: slider was in the same location for the grand slam,
6:49
Speaker 2: all right, so instead of it being down in the
6:50
Speaker 2: dirt for a chase or out of the zone, it's
6:54
Speaker 2: almost touching the fastball before, in the same location middle away.
6:59
Speaker 2: Mike yes, is if he could do it over again,
7:01
Speaker 2: he probably do one of two things. Obviously, bury that
7:03
Speaker 2: slider and get the ball back in. You're three to
7:05
Speaker 2: two with the chance to do whatever you want. Or
7:08
Speaker 2: I would say, hey, let's go back in with that sinker.
7:12
Speaker 2: Because five of the six pitches now are on the
7:14
Speaker 2: outer part of the plate and only one had been
7:16
Speaker 2: on the inner part of the plate. I don't know
7:18
Speaker 2: the book on Kurtz, so I'm really it's kind of
7:21
Speaker 2: ignorant for me to sit here and say, oh, I'd
7:22
Speaker 2: go sinker. But to me, it looks like we've gone
7:25
Speaker 2: away with sliders now his first two at bats. If
7:29
Speaker 2: you're wanting a ground ball here in this situation, it's
7:31
Speaker 2: going in and maybe resetting his eyes, or you just
7:34
Speaker 2: got to really make sure you're burying a slider. Obviously
7:38
Speaker 2: that's what he was trying to do with a gall
7:40
Speaker 2: on third. It's a whole lot different bearing a slider.
7:42
Speaker 3: You know, you gotta run coming in.
7:43
Speaker 2: There's a lot of variables here, but you know, that's
7:45
Speaker 2: what makes this game fun. If I could say one
7:47
Speaker 2: thing that I miss about baseball the most, it's this
7:50
Speaker 2: right here, going through this stuff. But you know, I
7:53
Speaker 2: think there was probably there could have been a chance
7:55
Speaker 2: for a little sinker away just or sinker in just
7:58
Speaker 2: going off of the swing that he put on a
8:00
Speaker 2: pretty well located sleep slider.
8:03
Speaker 1: Good context, that's good kind and think about this.
8:06
Speaker 4: You you obviously, and you also mentioned that he never
8:08
Speaker 4: he never went back to back heaters at any at bat,
8:11
Speaker 4: so he was obviously sitting soft because he knew he
8:13
Speaker 4: wasn't going to double up on heater at any time.
8:15
Speaker 4: So yeah, you go, everything could happen happened, and.
8:20
Speaker 1: The slider was just up a little bit. But as
8:23
Speaker 1: you put it, just up a little bits. Yeah.
8:26
Speaker 4: And when you're not worried about heater, because you don't
8:28
Speaker 4: double up on heaters, you don't miss the slider that's
8:30
Speaker 4: missed location. But when you've got to worry about heater,
8:33
Speaker 4: you might be off or you might be out in
8:34
Speaker 4: front of slider. Pop it up set a homer.
8:38
Speaker 3: So of his three at bats.
8:40
Speaker 2: Of his three at bats, in the first a bat,
8:42
Speaker 2: he threw a backup slider that stayed for a strike
8:46
Speaker 2: in the middle. And then the only other pitch inside
8:48
Speaker 2: was in his last bat. So Kurt Sin see one
8:51
Speaker 2: pitch on the internet. He only saw one pitch on
8:54
Speaker 2: the inner third all night. Maybe that's the book. I
8:56
Speaker 2: have no idea. Once again, but I was always check
9:00
Speaker 2: seing a double play, Jim, So I wasn't never chasing
9:02
Speaker 2: a strikeout. Lance to chase strikeout. So I'm finding a
9:05
Speaker 2: way how do I get a double play in that situation.
9:08
Speaker 2: Libby's got swinging this stuff. He's looking for a strikeout.
9:10
Speaker 1: So so we're all Libby got this. I mean, I
9:14
Speaker 1: know you like him, you know him, I like him,
9:16
Speaker 1: We all like him, and we all know he's a
9:18
Speaker 1: really talented guy. What are the challenges Lance said he
9:22
Speaker 1: faces trying to do it on a more consistent basis
9:25
Speaker 1: because he's had really good outings and then some that
9:28
Speaker 1: aren't so good. What's the key to him being consistent?
9:34
Speaker 4: Like it's like yesterday, not letting that inning get away
9:36
Speaker 4: from me, Right, it's gonna happen in the game. I
9:39
Speaker 4: think the key to consistency is knowing what you're trying
9:42
Speaker 4: to accomplish each inning with each hitter, and what you
9:46
Speaker 4: accomplished early in the game with the same hitters in
9:50
Speaker 4: different situations. So I think that the world that we
9:53
Speaker 4: live in now is hey, throw this, this and this,
9:57
Speaker 4: but you have to remember what you threw when you
9:59
Speaker 4: threw it. And there's some times when you have to
10:02
Speaker 4: go off script a little bit just to make them
10:05
Speaker 4: realize you will. And I think that's the thing for him.
10:07
Speaker 4: He's so smart and he's so dialed in on what
10:10
Speaker 4: he's trying to do and everything that hitters and other
10:14
Speaker 4: teams are going to realize that as the game goes on,
10:16
Speaker 4: that this is what he's doing and this and that.
10:18
Speaker 4: So as a group, the whole pitching staff, the coaching staff,
10:22
Speaker 4: and the catchers have to realize, like, as the game
10:24
Speaker 4: goes on, he's starting to get maybe seen or know
10:29
Speaker 4: what he's trying to do. And the book that he's using,
10:33
Speaker 4: they're saying, Oh, he's not going to stray from that.
10:35
Speaker 4: This is who he is no matter what. And that's
10:37
Speaker 4: how you're going to get deeper into games, and that's
10:39
Speaker 4: how you're going to get through those innings, is Hey,
10:41
Speaker 4: I can flip and flop it when I need to.
10:43
Speaker 4: I don't have to do the same thing every time
10:46
Speaker 4: and have a one way approach to get each hitter out.
10:49
Speaker 4: So that comes with doing it and trusting it and
10:51
Speaker 4: having a feel for the game, as in, hey, this
10:55
Speaker 4: might be the pitch for him, but I'm not going
10:58
Speaker 4: to use it in this at bat because nobody's on right.
11:01
Speaker 4: I'm gonna save it for the fifth end when the
11:03
Speaker 4: bases are loaded, and I don't have to use my
11:06
Speaker 4: best slider to get him out in the first With
11:08
Speaker 4: going on, let's challenge him a little bit in a
11:10
Speaker 4: certain spot where he thinks I'm going to go in
11:12
Speaker 4: there later. So those are the things that happened, But
11:15
Speaker 4: nowadays they teach you to use your best stuff at
11:17
Speaker 4: all times. And that's why you see guys get gott
11:19
Speaker 4: later in the games, because they've got nothing else to
11:21
Speaker 4: show him as the game goes on. So that's gonna
11:23
Speaker 4: be the learning curve on how he can approach that
11:25
Speaker 4: differently when you might not have your best stuff, how
11:28
Speaker 4: to make it look like you have your best stuff.
11:31
Speaker 4: That's gonna be the you know, that's for any picture
11:33
Speaker 4: these days.
11:34
Speaker 2: So interesting that you said, because there were times lands
11:36
Speaker 2: that I would go into a game and I'd be
11:38
Speaker 2: sitting in a catcher's meeting before the game, and we'll
11:41
Speaker 2: just say it's the Tigers, right, because Meggie comes to mind.
11:44
Speaker 2: I would sit there with the catcher and no full well, hey,
11:48
Speaker 2: our plan is to not go in on Meggie tonight. Okay,
11:50
Speaker 2: he's been crushing balls in. But I would say, hey,
11:53
Speaker 2: if we have nobody on and two outs and Miggie's up,
11:56
Speaker 2: first pitch sinker in, I don't care if it's a
11:59
Speaker 2: ball strike we were going to go for. My plan
12:01
Speaker 2: was to go first pitch sinker in, just like you said,
12:03
Speaker 2: to make sure he knows that we're going to come inside.
12:07
Speaker 2: If it's a solo homer, it's a solo homer. But
12:09
Speaker 2: at least he knows. I'm willing to come in there
12:12
Speaker 2: and there's nobody on two outs, low risk situation. You've
12:16
Speaker 2: got to be willing to do some of those things
12:19
Speaker 2: at certain times in the game, and nobody on early
12:22
Speaker 2: in the game. That's the time to do it.
12:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, you respect every hitter, but you can't get any
12:26
Speaker 4: credit exactly.
12:30
Speaker 1: You can't be predictable. I mean that's the bottom line, right,
12:33
Speaker 1: You have.
12:33
Speaker 4: To feel predictable. No, I was one hundred predictable, Jim.
12:36
Speaker 4: I'm trying to get through the lineup one time three
12:38
Speaker 4: without you seeing one pitch besides my eater, and if
12:42
Speaker 4: you let me do that, you are screwed.
12:45
Speaker 2: Hey, but let's be let's be fair to livey here.
12:48
Speaker 2: I know, I know the up and down season here
12:50
Speaker 2: is on the ribbon below us. But before last night,
12:54
Speaker 2: three of us four outings had been really good. And
12:57
Speaker 2: it had been you know, five or two thirds or more,
12:59
Speaker 2: two runs or less. Three of his four had been
13:02
Speaker 2: really good. So Libby's been throwing the ball well. And meanwhile,
13:05
Speaker 2: as I was Houston, which I know they're up and down,
13:07
Speaker 2: but Seattle, LA And San Diego, so three of his
13:10
Speaker 2: four had been really good.
13:11
Speaker 3: Last night.
13:12
Speaker 2: You know it was one pitch, but you know, I
13:14
Speaker 2: think Libby's gonna be just fine. I'm I'm not wonder
13:17
Speaker 2: at him at all. I agree with all that. I agree.
13:20
Speaker 2: I'm a Libby guy just like you are. All right,
13:23
Speaker 2: Alec Burlason three more hits last night, and I watched
13:26
Speaker 2: this guy hit and I just think he's such a
13:29
Speaker 2: smart hitter. He'll wait on the outside pitches take him
13:32
Speaker 2: down the line, he will crush an inside pitch, and
13:35
Speaker 2: his whole philosophy is is make sure he swings at
13:40
Speaker 2: strikes that he can do damage on, and then once
13:43
Speaker 2: he gets the two strikes, protect the plate.
13:45
Speaker 1: It's pretty simple. So I'm gonna ask you Lance, a
13:48
Speaker 1: guy like Burlison, how would you attack him? Because to
13:53
Speaker 1: me and where I think he's just scratching the service
13:55
Speaker 1: of what he can be. How would you attack a
13:57
Speaker 1: guy like Burley?
14:00
Speaker 4: I think you just well, he kind of just told
14:01
Speaker 4: me how it to attack him. So I know early
14:03
Speaker 4: when he's in a hitter's count, he's looking for certain
14:06
Speaker 4: spots and certain things that he can do damage on.
14:09
Speaker 4: So you go look at one of his damage in
14:11
Speaker 4: the zone where he does the least amount of damage
14:14
Speaker 4: on the least amount of pitch, and that's how you
14:15
Speaker 4: get ahead. And then Layton Couch, you know he's gonna
14:17
Speaker 4: turn into a slap hitter and protect a plate. So
14:19
Speaker 4: that's when you come up and in and let him
14:20
Speaker 4: hit the sack fly at to center with no one
14:23
Speaker 4: on and then he's over one and got nothing to
14:24
Speaker 4: show for it. So he kind of told everybody what
14:28
Speaker 4: he wants to do, which is why I tell everyone
14:30
Speaker 4: not to talk to the media because they just gets
14:32
Speaker 4: you in trouble. So but yes, he has an approach,
14:38
Speaker 4: and he has a very good approach. And it's the
14:40
Speaker 4: fact is, I'm looking for balls that can do damage
14:42
Speaker 4: on and I'm not going to chase out of the zone.
14:44
Speaker 4: But if here's the truth of the matter nowadays, and
14:47
Speaker 4: well most times, most pitchers can't fill the ball where
14:50
Speaker 4: they want to every time. So it's a good approach, right,
14:53
Speaker 4: You're looking for a ball elevator that you can do
14:54
Speaker 4: damage on in your zones. And then you make a
14:56
Speaker 4: guy throw you three in a spot where you can't
14:59
Speaker 4: do anything with But in his case, if you're gonna
15:01
Speaker 4: throw me two in that spot, I'll take this. I'll
15:04
Speaker 4: take the knock the other way if you're gonna stay
15:06
Speaker 4: there and this and that. So he's going to be
15:08
Speaker 4: a guy that's very that's how you got to mess
15:10
Speaker 4: with him, is okay. When he gets to two strikes,
15:13
Speaker 4: it's like, oh, don't throw them a ball in because
15:15
Speaker 4: or a fast ball in because he can do damage
15:17
Speaker 4: well two strikes, he's not trying to do damage. If
15:19
Speaker 4: you throw that ball in, it beats him up and
15:20
Speaker 4: he hits a fly ball to center where if you
15:22
Speaker 4: throw that ball early in the count, that's the ball
15:24
Speaker 4: he does damage on and gets doubles and stuff like that.
15:26
Speaker 4: But he's got good such good hand eye. That's why
15:29
Speaker 4: he can do the things he can do. And as
15:30
Speaker 4: long as he doesn't chase and he makes guys throw
15:33
Speaker 4: the ball where they want to more times than not,
15:36
Speaker 4: he's going to come out ahead. And that's all you
15:37
Speaker 4: got to do in this game, is you know, one
15:40
Speaker 4: out of every three be you know, come ahead. And
15:43
Speaker 4: that's where he's where he's taking his game. And then
15:45
Speaker 4: when he gets to two strikes, he's not afraid to
15:47
Speaker 4: dwink one in and that's probably the most annoying thing
15:49
Speaker 4: you can have him a guy that can drive the
15:51
Speaker 4: ball and he'll take his doinks. Those are the guys
15:54
Speaker 4: that hitched you off, as anyone will tell you. As
15:57
Speaker 4: a starting pitcher.
16:00
Speaker 1: You think about Burly Kyle.
16:02
Speaker 3: I think he's got a silver bat on his shelf.
16:04
Speaker 2: Jim and I think he's pretty good, and I think
16:07
Speaker 2: I think he's somebody that Lance and I had a
16:10
Speaker 2: lot of fun getting to know in twenty twenty four
16:13
Speaker 2: and had a pretty good feeling that this was a
16:16
Speaker 2: really quality player that has a really high baseball IQ
16:19
Speaker 2: can play many musicians on the field, and it is
16:22
Speaker 2: just a hard worker. I think one thing that is
16:26
Speaker 2: really I'm not gonna say outlier, but I mean I
16:29
Speaker 2: think helps Burley with his approach is when he chooses
16:33
Speaker 2: to swing, he has a quick trigger and he can
16:36
Speaker 2: get his swing off quickly and under control. And like
16:41
Speaker 2: Lance said, everything that he said is what I would echo.
16:44
Speaker 2: But that quick trigger, to me is what really makes
16:47
Speaker 2: him tough to beat inside. And you really got to
16:51
Speaker 2: get him kind of in between decisions here and hope
16:55
Speaker 2: that you can, you know, get him to expand late.
16:58
Speaker 3: But he's got a sill over back for a reason.
17:02
Speaker 4: It's also really good. I told you a long time ago.
17:05
Speaker 4: I told you a long time ago. He's Lance Berkman
17:07
Speaker 4: made over. They are, they are the same, They are
17:11
Speaker 4: very similar in a lot of ways. And the game
17:14
Speaker 4: is I won't say easy for him, but they know
17:16
Speaker 4: what they're trying to do and they make it as
17:18
Speaker 4: easy as they possibly can. And those guys have success.
17:21
Speaker 4: And that's what Lance. Lance was a you know, borderline
17:24
Speaker 4: Hall of Famer. You know, it depends on where you
17:26
Speaker 4: sit on that. I would say he is because the
17:28
Speaker 4: things he was able to accomplish in his career. But
17:30
Speaker 4: that's that's who really is. It's that's that's his upside.
17:33
Speaker 4: That's who he could be is Lance Berkman.
17:36
Speaker 1: And right now he said safely and thirteen was last
17:38
Speaker 1: fifteen and he is my pick for our fan duel
17:43
Speaker 1: Daily Dinger Roll the production. I love that, Absolutely love that.
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Speaker 1: Head over to FanDuel dot COM's last podcast, hold On
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18:18
Speaker 1: Who's your daily dinger, Lance, I'll start with you.
18:22
Speaker 4: I've both walk today.
18:25
Speaker 1: It's a good pick.
18:29
Speaker 3: Left on the bump, left, left on the bump. Man
18:33
Speaker 3: JJ has been the guy I've gone with.
18:37
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say Herrera's due. I'm going with Herrera, and
18:41
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be early. I'm gonna go
18:43
Speaker 2: first inning, Homer and get them on the board. You
18:46
Speaker 2: know what I really like? I just yeah, yeah, I
18:49
Speaker 2: got to point this out. I love our graphic here.
18:52
Speaker 2: I did notice on MLB the other day that their
18:55
Speaker 2: their graphic for their hitter was a righty with uh
18:59
Speaker 2: the sit in your flap, So I thought that was
19:05
Speaker 2: the wrong ear flap. So just I really liked that
19:07
Speaker 2: our graphic.
19:08
Speaker 3: Was on there.
19:09
Speaker 1: So Victor Scott the second is a weapon when he's
19:13
Speaker 1: got a going. Right now he doesn't have it going.
19:16
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about that after we take a short break.
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20:21
Speaker 1: So Victor Scott the second and he is really an
20:24
Speaker 1: unbelievable weapon with his speed covers a lot of ground
20:28
Speaker 1: out in center field. But right now, he's hit in
20:30
Speaker 1: one seventy eight, and you wonder with Lars Newbarn who's
20:34
Speaker 1: set to go out of rehab, he'll come back from
20:37
Speaker 1: his heel issues. And Nathan Church is playing so well.
20:43
Speaker 1: I know they want to get Victor Scott right, Cole,
20:46
Speaker 1: what what do you see him from Victor Scott? Because
20:49
Speaker 1: let me just give you a background. They, according to
20:51
Speaker 1: Bran Brown, you know, his his bat's up here, and
20:55
Speaker 1: they wanted to level off his swing, and they wanted
20:58
Speaker 1: maybe to chop down and utilize the speed, put the
21:00
Speaker 1: ball on the ground, didn't take and now he's kind
21:03
Speaker 1: of flying out and he's to let him go back
21:05
Speaker 1: to the way he was, which is sort of an upswing.
21:08
Speaker 1: How do you handle a talent like that, because we
21:10
Speaker 1: all know this guy is a super talent.
21:13
Speaker 2: When did we start changing would be my question. Didn't
21:16
Speaker 2: he have like a first grade with two or three
21:18
Speaker 2: weeks and just everybody thought that Victor Scott was hitting
21:22
Speaker 2: really well and offensively was doing great.
21:25
Speaker 3: I don't know. I hesitate to make.
21:28
Speaker 2: Any type of swing changes that are significant for a
21:32
Speaker 2: young guy, really anybody, not just the young player, for
21:36
Speaker 2: anybody at the big league level.
21:39
Speaker 3: It's just it's really tough to do.
21:40
Speaker 2: This is not like adding a pitch in the middle
21:42
Speaker 2: of the season because I'm not changing my delivery when
21:45
Speaker 2: I had a cutter. You know, this is something a
21:48
Speaker 2: lot different. And if he is changing things, then the
21:51
Speaker 2: grace period here needs to be extended. So I think
21:55
Speaker 2: for for Vic, it was, you know, let's put the
21:57
Speaker 2: ball in play. Yeah, I don't think fly balls are
22:00
Speaker 2: necessarily the route to take. You know, let's see if
22:03
Speaker 2: we can drive the ball in a line somewhere, you know,
22:06
Speaker 2: keep that launching lower and just find a way to
22:09
Speaker 2: get the barrel to it. So, you know, he the
22:12
Speaker 2: beauty for me when you have a roster like the
22:15
Speaker 2: Cardinals have, is you have a second basement has more
22:19
Speaker 2: power than normal. You got a right fielder who's playing
22:22
Speaker 2: MVP caliber. You got a left fielder who's hitting well
22:25
Speaker 2: and playing great defense. You have a lot of offense
22:27
Speaker 2: spread around the field. That is helpful, and if your
22:31
Speaker 2: center fielder is a more defensive position, that's fine. I
22:34
Speaker 2: think Vic has a chance to be an average big
22:36
Speaker 2: league hitter and to you know, add to the game
22:39
Speaker 2: on both sides of the ball. We haven't seen it
22:42
Speaker 2: as much, but I hesitate to be excited that we're
22:45
Speaker 2: making swing changes and adjustments just in the middle of it,
22:50
Speaker 2: when I thought he had a couple of pretty good
22:53
Speaker 2: first weeks.
22:56
Speaker 1: Let's when you get off to a slow start. Every
22:59
Speaker 1: veteran has done that work quarter of the way through
23:01
Speaker 1: the season. It's probably a burden. You know. You look
23:04
Speaker 1: at you go out to the mound and you look
23:06
Speaker 1: at your era before the game, are like, that sucks
23:09
Speaker 1: if you're a young guy like Victor Scott who hasn't
23:11
Speaker 1: made his bones in MLB and you look at that
23:14
Speaker 1: batting average and that's a lot to carry around for
23:16
Speaker 1: young guy, isn't it that slow start through you know,
23:20
Speaker 1: bulk of the games.
23:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not fun, to be honest, And you know
23:24
Speaker 4: Large is coming back, and Largest an everyday guy, so
23:26
Speaker 4: it kind of you know, you feel the roster crunch
23:29
Speaker 4: coming too. It's amazing how much you feel that when
23:32
Speaker 4: you're young and you're not producing the way you you
23:34
Speaker 4: know you're capable of ever want to, and you feel
23:37
Speaker 4: that guy coming back, so put some more stress on you.
23:39
Speaker 4: But like Kyle said, if you're if you're in the
23:41
Speaker 4: middle of if I don't understand this, if you're trying
23:45
Speaker 4: to change people. You cannot change them at the big
23:47
Speaker 4: league level. If the idea was for him to do
23:49
Speaker 4: swing change and this and that for his career for
23:52
Speaker 4: the team and all that, that's either done in the
23:54
Speaker 4: offseason or that's done in the minor leagues. There's really
23:57
Speaker 4: no other way to say it. And unfortunately, if Large
24:00
Speaker 4: comes back and everybody keeps doing what they're doing, that's
24:02
Speaker 4: where he's going to have to do it. And that's
24:03
Speaker 4: gonna suck for him because he's got to put the
24:06
Speaker 4: ball in play. He's got to use his speed, and
24:08
Speaker 4: he's got to use his defense. Right now, he's striking
24:10
Speaker 4: out at a thirty three percent clip on the season
24:14
Speaker 4: or something like that. That's not good. I mean, he
24:16
Speaker 4: can't do that with his speed as ye're just wasting,
24:19
Speaker 4: wasting what he has. You know, I liking it to
24:22
Speaker 4: Billy Hamilton when he couldn't, like just put the ball
24:24
Speaker 4: in play for a while early on, and then he
24:27
Speaker 4: found something to do that made it work. Vic's got
24:30
Speaker 4: to find something that works for him where he keeps
24:32
Speaker 4: the ball, where he's not hitting fly balls. We used
24:35
Speaker 4: to love when Billy Hamilton would try to hit a
24:36
Speaker 4: home run and then he just hit a fly ball
24:38
Speaker 4: to right field or center field. Every time. You're like,
24:40
Speaker 4: thanks man, good job. I would rather if you were
24:43
Speaker 4: have tried to bun on me. He probably got to
24:45
Speaker 4: hit every time, but he would try to take me
24:46
Speaker 4: deep and he couldn't do it. So that's that's where
24:50
Speaker 4: we're at right now. It's okay, you know, are we are?
24:53
Speaker 4: Why are we not bunning? Why are we not doing
24:55
Speaker 4: some other things? More and more just to just to
24:58
Speaker 4: figure it out because the fly ball swing, it's not yet.
25:02
Speaker 4: I don't think he's ever going to turn into a
25:04
Speaker 4: twenty home run hitter, and that's not his game.
25:06
Speaker 6: You know, he's going to.
25:07
Speaker 4: Figure out how to get on base. He's going to
25:08
Speaker 4: figure out how to steal bags at a at. You know,
25:10
Speaker 4: he's been thrown out three of three of nine times.
25:13
Speaker 4: That's not good for a guy with his speed and
25:15
Speaker 4: stuff like that. So right now everything's going possibly bad
25:18
Speaker 4: that could and Lars is coming back. So it kind
25:20
Speaker 4: of it paints the picture that he's gonna be the
25:22
Speaker 4: one that's going to be sent down because you need
25:24
Speaker 4: to let him have a break and you need to
25:26
Speaker 4: also figure out, hey, what swing can work for this guy?
25:29
Speaker 4: To be the best big leaguer he can and then
25:31
Speaker 4: when he gets older, if he figures out other things,
25:34
Speaker 4: then he can turn into somebody that can maybe drive
25:36
Speaker 4: the ball a little bit more. But we don't need
25:38
Speaker 4: that out of him right now, so you've got to
25:39
Speaker 4: talk him out of trying to do that. And that's
25:42
Speaker 4: that's the hard part for coaches. But you can't change
25:45
Speaker 4: anything while you're trying to get hits at the big
25:46
Speaker 4: league level. I promise you that help for the last
25:50
Speaker 4: two years. Jordan Walker showed us this the last two years.
25:54
Speaker 4: Like you know what I'm saying, Jordan Walker. I mean,
25:56
Speaker 4: if he if he hits the ball on the ground
25:57
Speaker 4: like Jordan Walker did two years ago, Victor three hundred
26:00
Speaker 4: hitter and stealing, you know, he's on base more. But
26:02
Speaker 4: we you know, that's where we're at right now. But
26:05
Speaker 4: if they're they're doing the same thing they did to Jordan,
26:07
Speaker 4: and that's not fair to That wasn't fair to Jordan,
26:09
Speaker 4: It's not fair.
26:09
Speaker 3: To vicor.
26:11
Speaker 2: Well what I what I like the possibility here is,
26:14
Speaker 2: I mean, who knows what roster construction is going to happen,
26:17
Speaker 2: right Like, who who knows who's gonna go where? Let's
26:21
Speaker 2: that's that's definitely the hard part when Newt comes back.
26:23
Speaker 2: But if we look here, I like, if we're gonna
26:26
Speaker 2: have Vic make some adjustments and and do some things,
26:29
Speaker 2: I like Vic staying up for definite defensive purposes and
26:34
Speaker 2: having Newt probably move Church to center field, and having
26:38
Speaker 2: new go back to left field where he had a
26:39
Speaker 2: lot of defensive success in twenty two and twenty three. Uh,
26:43
Speaker 2: and then being able to slot Vic in their late
26:46
Speaker 2: innings and be able to be a defensive difference maker
26:49
Speaker 2: when the Cardinals have the lead, and then you give
26:52
Speaker 2: him the ability to get a couple of bats here
26:54
Speaker 2: and there, but then really hone in on some of
26:57
Speaker 2: the swing changes that you're making, like really really holding
26:59
Speaker 2: in our right contacts our goal here, what we're doing
27:02
Speaker 2: on to how what are we doing in our swing
27:04
Speaker 2: to make contact the goal? So I don't know, I
27:10
Speaker 2: think there's you know, between s JC and for me,
27:13
Speaker 2: like those for me are more infield guys. I know
27:15
Speaker 2: SA Jays's a ballplayer, he can play outfield. But if
27:18
Speaker 2: I'm looking for a defense, I've guy to give Newton
27:20
Speaker 2: a couple inning break here coming back from double hill surgery.
27:22
Speaker 2: I'm picking vic So. I think then it gives you
27:25
Speaker 2: a chance in between his starts to really kind of
27:29
Speaker 2: hone in on some offensive changes, if that's what you're
27:31
Speaker 2: trying to do.
27:33
Speaker 1: And Church, by the way, has been really good. He
27:36
Speaker 1: always seems to come up with a defensive play that
27:38
Speaker 1: impacts the game. He's got six of his RBIs or
27:42
Speaker 1: go ahead RBI's second most among MLB rookies behind jj So.
27:48
Speaker 1: And he's also been the top rated defender in centerfield
27:52
Speaker 1: or among outfielders in the organization. So that kind of
27:55
Speaker 1: complicates the picture for Victor Scott because as Kyle points
28:00
Speaker 1: at Lance, that you got a guy who can give
28:03
Speaker 1: you really good defense in center field and contribute offensively
28:06
Speaker 1: in Church.
28:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's the hard part that they're going to
28:11
Speaker 4: have to figure out, right, it is the best way
28:14
Speaker 4: to make Victor the best player in the future to
28:16
Speaker 4: sit there and not play and be a defensive replacement,
28:21
Speaker 4: or is it to hey, go get reps and go
28:23
Speaker 4: figure out a true approach where it doesn't matter and
28:26
Speaker 4: you can spend two three weeks on getting your hands
28:29
Speaker 4: and your foot down and all the things that you
28:31
Speaker 4: need to do in in the minor league. So when
28:34
Speaker 4: you're looking at the future of everyone, the organization all that.
28:39
Speaker 4: You got to get him right, and it's hard to
28:41
Speaker 4: get right not playing, it really is. But I understand
28:44
Speaker 4: what I was saying. When you can work with big
28:46
Speaker 4: league staff and this and that, that could help and
28:48
Speaker 4: you could slow the game down for him hopefully, but
28:51
Speaker 4: you also got to play, man. I think a lot
28:53
Speaker 4: of these guys that are, you know, the same with Jordan,
28:56
Speaker 4: as Jordan wasn't playing. When he wasn't playing, they had
28:58
Speaker 4: to send him down to learning play. So it's very
29:00
Speaker 4: similar to that. It's like the more you don't play,
29:02
Speaker 4: the more you can't figure it out a game speed.
29:04
Speaker 4: At the same time, so they're gonna be in a
29:06
Speaker 4: little bit of a tough situation because they do have
29:09
Speaker 4: a guy that can play every day out there that
29:10
Speaker 4: plays just as good as defense or rated just as high,
29:14
Speaker 4: you know, across the board, and he's and he's hitting better.
29:17
Speaker 4: So it kind of you know, when you get things
29:19
Speaker 4: like that that just kind of fall in your lap
29:21
Speaker 4: and then you got to and then you can kind
29:23
Speaker 4: of reassess on how you're going to make the next guy,
29:25
Speaker 4: you know, which would be Vic figure it out a
29:27
Speaker 4: little faster, and I think you got to play, and
29:29
Speaker 4: if you got to play, that means it's every day
29:31
Speaker 4: in triple A.
29:34
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm not so sure everyone had Nathan Church on
29:37
Speaker 1: their Bengo card as being a guy who could end
29:39
Speaker 1: up having a big impact on this ball clop. Certainly
29:43
Speaker 1: he deserves consideration now with everything he's doing.
29:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think you know, this is a
29:48
Speaker 2: season that everybody's been pleasantly surprised with some of the
29:51
Speaker 2: the overachieving that they've done and some of the beating
29:55
Speaker 2: expectations have done.
29:56
Speaker 3: And he's a part of that. You know.
29:58
Speaker 2: I would push back a little bit on Lance on
30:01
Speaker 2: being better for Vic for developed intripl a. To me,
30:05
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, this this changing of course we've talked about, right, Like,
30:10
Speaker 2: if Vic's a guy that you want to see at
30:13
Speaker 2: the big league level what he can do, then I
30:14
Speaker 2: think he's got to be up there, and then you
30:17
Speaker 2: balance winning and you balance development. But like you said, Lance,
30:21
Speaker 2: who's the best hitting coaches for Victor be around? To me,
30:24
Speaker 2: I don't care if it's Hey, Vic, you are going
30:27
Speaker 2: to be here at whenever you show up, but you're
30:30
Speaker 2: going to be on field hitting early at two thirty,
30:33
Speaker 2: and we're going to see the ball where it's going
30:34
Speaker 2: on the field, and then we're going to have a
30:36
Speaker 2: routine of you know, we're going to get our warm
30:38
Speaker 2: up in, but then we're going to be firing pitches
30:40
Speaker 2: at you, whether it's a machine or live, not a pitcher,
30:43
Speaker 2: but like a coach, getting it in there.
30:45
Speaker 3: And here we are.
30:46
Speaker 2: We're working on these swing changes on the field daily
30:49
Speaker 2: so he can kind of keep some of that timing
30:52
Speaker 2: but then still impact the game defensively. And I don't know,
30:55
Speaker 2: I just kind of think like, if you're sending him down,
31:00
Speaker 2: then you're probably trying to find a different solution and
31:05
Speaker 2: trying to find, you know, somebody who can outperform him.
31:08
Speaker 2: But I think he's a guy that you're trying to
31:09
Speaker 2: figure out, is this a guy that we can slide
31:12
Speaker 2: into the outfut for the next few years.
31:16
Speaker 1: Boys, that's going to do it for this edition of
31:18
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory. As always, I learned a lot from you, gentlemen.
31:23
Speaker 1: We will see you all next time on the next episode,
31:25
Speaker 1: and hopefully that one won't suck.