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Meet The Most Dangerous Women In America's Prisons - True Crime Documentary · The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: What was the hardest thing to adjust to when you
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: first came into this prison.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I've always, naively, I guess, thought that women were the
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: generer sex, that the weaker sex.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: That's what society wants us to believe.
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: And the fact that women.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Can stab a man to death forty times.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I find that incomprehensible.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: South of Chicago, in the state of Indiana, two prisons
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: hold some of America's most dangerous female criminals. The Rockville
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Correctional Facility, an Indiana women's prison, house over eighteen hundred
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: of fenders. Many are serving long sentences for extremely violent crimes.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Some will end their days. How severely was the victim heard?
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: The bullet came at the close contact with his eye
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: and shot him in the face.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, For four weeks, I was given access to a
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: world and a culture the like of which I've never known.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: And so you were classed as a baby killer.
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: I was that.
• 1:28
  Speaker 6: I am that.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: I'm a lot more than that as well, but that's
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: who I am.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: America imprisons more women than anywhere else in the world.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: This is Indiana Women's Prison. My escort, Sergeant McPherson, is
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: taking me to meet the most notorious made in the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: state a convicted double murder. Thank you, you're welcome and sarctic.
• 2:07
  Speaker 7: We're heading now to the administrative segregation unit. This unit
• 2:12
  Speaker 7: is where our disciplinary offenders are. This is what you
• 2:17
  Speaker 7: call like a punishment forum. We put them here to
• 2:23
  Speaker 7: give them time to think about what they've done and
• 2:27
  Speaker 7: to clear up their negative behavior.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Offenders in this unit spend more than twenty hours a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: day locked in their cells. They have no contact with
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the rest of the prison population.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Hey, Sarah, you ready.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Sarah Pender has been in this segregation unit for nearly
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: five years. This is punishment not for the double murder
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: for which he was convicted, but for an incident in
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: two thousand and eight which made headline news across the country.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Why do you think they have given you this long
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: sentence as it were in segregation unit.
• 3:19
  Speaker 8: Because I embarrassed them?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: How did you embarrass them?
• 3:26
  Speaker 8: Well, I escaped from what was supposed to be a
• 3:29
  Speaker 8: maximum security prison.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: How did you do that?
• 3:32
  Speaker 8: An officer aided me.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: In what way?
• 3:39
  Speaker 8: This is a little embarrassing. He drove me out. They
• 3:44
  Speaker 8: have these transportation vans that come in to get fuel.
• 3:48
  Speaker 8: They have like their own little gas station, and we
• 3:50
  Speaker 8: planned it so that when he came in to get fuel,
• 3:53
  Speaker 8: then I came out and got in the van.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: How did you manage to persuade an officer?
• 3:57
  Speaker 8: Well, I didn't actually to take you out. I didn't
• 4:00
  Speaker 8: actually ask him. Yeah, I know I was having When
• 4:06
  Speaker 8: I was planning my escape, I planned on doing it
• 4:08
  Speaker 8: by myself, but I needed money and I didn't want
• 4:11
  Speaker 8: to ask my family because I would have to lie
• 4:13
  Speaker 8: to them about what it was for. So in order
• 4:14
  Speaker 8: to make money, I worked with this officer who would
• 4:17
  Speaker 8: traffic in contraband and then my friends would sell it
• 4:21
  Speaker 8: for money, and then I would get the money to
• 4:22
  Speaker 8: save up for my escape. And so he was making
• 4:26
  Speaker 8: a lot of money because I was paying him very
• 4:28
  Speaker 8: well to do this.
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: And he found out that I.
• 4:32
  Speaker 8: Was planning an escape and saw an opportunity to make
• 4:37
  Speaker 8: more money, and so he said, well, what if I
• 4:40
  Speaker 8: could just roll you out of here. I said, that
• 4:45
  Speaker 8: would be worth my while. And as a side note,
• 4:49
  Speaker 8: I also had a sexual relationship with the officer and
• 4:52
  Speaker 8: that came out when I when I escaped, and that
• 4:56
  Speaker 8: was very embarrassing to the department.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I think I'm beginning to understand why the authorities have
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: taken such a strong line on your case because you
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: mentioned it was an embarrassment. I think it's a huge
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: embarrassment for them.
• 5:09
  Speaker 8: Yes, I am. The only explanation that they've given my
• 5:14
  Speaker 8: mother for why I am in here is that I'm
• 5:18
  Speaker 8: quote too smart for their facility.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: This is the Rockville Correctional Facility from which Sarah Pender
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: escaped in two thousand and eight. She was on the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: run for more than four months and was labeled America's
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: most wanted woman.
• 5:45
  Speaker 9: Leading the way back to Indiana. Two state troopers and
• 5:47
  Speaker 9: an unmarked police guard bringing convicted murderer and prison escapee
• 5:51
  Speaker 9: Sarah Joe Pender back to an Indiana state prison. Pender
• 5:55
  Speaker 9: has been on the run from police since escaping from
• 5:57
  Speaker 9: the Rockville Correctional Facility last August.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: She'll have no contact with the outside. She no phone calls,
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: no visits, and will minimize her contact with even with
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: staff internally.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: The state has been true to its work and this
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: has been Sarah Pender's life ever since. Scott Spittler, the
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: officer who helped her escape, was jailed for seven years.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Sergeant McPherson has known Sarah Pender from the day she
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: arrived at Indiana Women's Prison. She must have struck up
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: a very deep relationship having targeted that male officer.
• 6:36
  Speaker 10: He was having problems at home, and she prayed on that.
• 6:42
  Speaker 10: She prayed on his emotions. She made him feel that
• 6:47
  Speaker 10: she was gonna save him, that she would be his everything,
• 6:52
  Speaker 10: that she would replace what he didn't have, and he
• 6:56
  Speaker 10: was so vulnerable he fell for it. So he did
• 6:59
  Speaker 10: whatever she asked. He fell in love with her.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: He fell in love with her.
• 7:04
  Speaker 10: Yes, But of course she wasn't in love with him.
• 7:06
  Speaker 10: She used him to get what she wanted, and that
• 7:09
  Speaker 10: was to get out of Rockville.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: And you would put that down to her ability to manipulate.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: She is.
• 7:18
  Speaker 10: I've seen a lot. I've been here for over twenty years.
• 7:21
  Speaker 10: Sarah is one of the best manipulators I've seen.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Out in the general population, prisoners must conform to strictly
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: regimented days. Three hours for recreation, fifteen minute sittings for meals.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Apart from this routine, inmates are allowed out of their cells,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: although they are confined to their assigned units. Thank you,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: This is Unit thirteen. Offenders have just returned from lunch.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, Hi Trevor, I'm Addie.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Addie what are you doing here today?
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: I'm just talking. She's doing a little craft in a
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: little writing some cards. You're sending cards, Mother's Day cards.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: It's coming up, so we got to get them out.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Does your mother come to see you here?
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: No, my mother she lives out of state, so she
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: really doesn't come up here much.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: She's never come to see you at all.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: We just talk on the phone.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: And how long have you been in this prison?
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: Since two thousand and six.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Thousand and six. Yes, that's a long time, seven years. Yeah,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: but it's a long time, not only for you but
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: for anybody. Yeah, yep, how did that? How did that
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: come about?
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: But I got strong arm robbery charges, So.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Strong arm robbery chge.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's more for like physical robbery. Like I didn't
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: have a gun or anything. I was fighting, punishing, you
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: know that kind of stuff.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: What were you oh people?
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Sorry, it was three people?
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: What was this in the street?
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we were driving around. We stopped when we seen
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: people walking. We hopped out the car, bum rushed them,
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: kind of beat 'em up, knock them down, try to
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: snatch the purses.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: So you you robbed three people?
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: How much did you take?
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: Oh? It was only three hundred dollars from that robbery,
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: So it really wasn't nothing. A stupid decision, not worth anything,
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: especially all these years of my life.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: When you say from that robbery, you suggest that there
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: were other instances.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: M yeah, there was, I just didn't get caught.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Fortunately, How how old were you when you started on this?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: May I call it a career?
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: Oh well, since I was about thirteen.
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: School.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: I went to school up until like tenth grade. Then
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: I started fighting, getting expelled, and I just stopped going.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: I'm actually really smart in school. I always had straight a's,
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: but I just couldn't stay there, always fighting, getting expelled.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Well why couldn't you stay there? Why did you find
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the need to fight?
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: I just have a really horrible anger problem, so I
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: always let that get the best of me.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Even looking at you now, I'm finding it difficult to
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: believe that you are capable of having done that.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: I'm very much capable of it.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Because you're still very young.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm twenty five and your sentence was sixteen years
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: to eight.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: If you behave well, yeah, if you control your.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: Anger right, and actually, probably in the most recent year,
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: I can say I've been getting control of my anger,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: and I have two kids, so I know I have
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: to have two kids.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, how old are they.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: There's seven and nine, two little girls.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Do you feel you have let them down by not
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: being there for them?
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, I have and I deal with that every day.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: And I really like my biggest motivation to changing and
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: being different and coming out of here and you know,
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: taking something from it, not just oh I've been in prison.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: You know, I want to walk out of here and
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: be something for them. I just do not want them
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: to follow the same circle like my mother was in prison.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: You know, this is the same whatful attempting murder and
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: aggravated robbery.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: So that that was not perhaps a great start for
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: you in your life, wasn't.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: No, it wasn't. That's kind of what you know kicked
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: everything off. Is mama leaving.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Addie Heart's will be free in only a few months.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: She'd spend much longer picking up the threads of her life.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I'm on my way to the Rockville Correctional Facility. This
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: is the largest women's prison in the state of Indiana.
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: I still need.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bad job every job.
• 13:04
  Speaker 9: Day where.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Rockville is a clearing house for convicts from all over
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the state. Some will serve all their time here. Others
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: are assessed and moved on to other prisoners. Every month,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: on average, two hundred new offenders arrived here. This is
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: their first port of corn. From now on that every
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: action would be governed by prison rules.
• 13:42
  Speaker 11: Ready, look right up here, one, two three.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: All right, This paper here tells you we don't allow
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: any sexual contact of any kind between you and stuff
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: and your ore offenders.
• 13:53
  Speaker 11: You are stuff, Okay, go over there and get a
• 13:55
  Speaker 11: star pham cut put your name on it. There's water
• 13:58
  Speaker 11: in the orange thing.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: From the way an intake looks when she comes in here,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: can you tell what she might be in for?
• 14:08
  Speaker 11: No, I don't ever try to guess.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Some of them.
• 14:12
  Speaker 11: When you look at them and you look at the offender,
• 14:14
  Speaker 11: it's like you cannot believe that that's what she's here for.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: You're frequently surprised by what.
• 14:20
  Speaker 11: They've done very much. So yeah, you would if you
• 14:23
  Speaker 11: look at, you know, the paper and then look at
• 14:25
  Speaker 11: her and you're going, there's no way, but yep.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Do you see many of the same people coming and going.
• 14:33
  Speaker 11: Yes, they'll come in that door back there and say
• 14:36
  Speaker 11: I'm home and I'm going Really, you know, because for
• 14:41
  Speaker 11: some of them, this is because they have nowhere else
• 14:44
  Speaker 11: to go.
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: Okay, I'm gonna rule each finger.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna start with your right thumb.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Trevor. Have you been in this prison before?
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: Yes, I have for a Fort Wayne, Fort Wayne, Indiana.
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: I've been here for possession of math. So I've been
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: here before, but I always stayed like an intake. I
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: didn't leave intake. So but this time I will.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So this time you will be in the general
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: of prison population.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Sure, Well what sort of prospect.
• 15:17
  Speaker 11: Is that for you?
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: I'm a little scary, but at the same time, like
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: I don't don't teach me a little morals, you know,
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: teach me not to come back.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Do you have a drug dependency.
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: I've been to rehabs.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: I'm an addict straight up, So yeah, I do.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: How long have you been an addict?
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: Since I was seventeen I'm twenty eight, A couple of
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: years a long time.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Do Do you have children?
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: I have four four year old. I have four. My
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: oldest one is thirteen. I have a thirteen year old,
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: twelve year old, nine year old, and a six year old.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to find a hopeful road out of this
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: for you. I know, what's that I don't know.
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: I have to have a game plan when I leave here.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: I know that, like going back to life. Like when
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: I got in trouble this time, I violated promission because
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: I didn't have no transportation back and forth, and I
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: wasn't using and I haven't used for maybe three months
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: at the most, you know, And that's pretty good for me,
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: because I was doing needles and all kinds of stuff.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: But three months is a big step, and I just
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: wanted a little bit further and a little bit further.
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: But it's just it's hard. It's really really hard.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you very much for talking. Good luck, Thank you.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: New inmates have a month of prison orientation. They're easily
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: recognized by their orange uniform. For every new arrival, some
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: other prisoner is about to leave. Martha's such is quietly
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: counting down the decks.
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Mane, you're walcome.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I caught up with her on her mail delivery round Martha,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: how long have you been in?
• 17:24
  Speaker 12: Almost twenty years?
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: The thought of getting out must be an exhilerating one, yes,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: but you must also be worried about getting back into
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the world after all this time.
• 17:38
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I am, but this time has given me time
• 17:42
  Speaker 12: to discover things I didn't have before, like patients. And
• 17:47
  Speaker 12: I know it's going to be hard, it's gonna be
• 17:48
  Speaker 12: a little bit difficult, but I just take one day
• 17:51
  Speaker 12: at a time and I'm just anxious to see how
• 17:53
  Speaker 12: the world is changing.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: That twenty years.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: You'll have a lot to catch up on.
• 17:57
  Speaker 12: Yes, I have a lot to ketch up on. And
• 17:59
  Speaker 12: I have two daughters grown that were ages almost thirteen
• 18:03
  Speaker 12: and sixteen when I was incarcerated, who are now thirty
• 18:05
  Speaker 12: two and thirty five, so I haven't seen them in
• 18:08
  Speaker 12: a while.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Have you seen any of them since you've been here.
• 18:12
  Speaker 12: I haven't seen my youngest daughter since ninety nine. She
• 18:14
  Speaker 12: couldn't do it no more. And my oldest I stopped
• 18:16
  Speaker 12: coming in two thousand and five because she didn't want
• 18:18
  Speaker 12: to leave without me anymore.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: And you missed quite a lot.
• 18:22
  Speaker 12: I just went from here to Terre Hoe to the
• 18:23
  Speaker 12: hospital not long ago, and I was awestruck at the
• 18:27
  Speaker 12: things I saw, and I had had the officer tell
• 18:29
  Speaker 12: me what it was because I didn't know what it was.
• 18:32
  Speaker 12: Things like what I seen this little gadget once and
• 18:35
  Speaker 12: I didn't know what it was. And I won't say
• 18:37
  Speaker 12: it was an iPod, so I had to have him
• 18:38
  Speaker 12: explained to me what an iPod was, as I don't know.
• 18:41
  Speaker 12: And a cell phone. I'm used to your core phones
• 18:45
  Speaker 12: at home. But I'm like, yeah, I can't wait to
• 18:50
  Speaker 12: get out and try these things. I'm a type of
• 18:52
  Speaker 12: person that likes to learn things, and I'm curious and
• 18:55
  Speaker 12: I'm going to find out.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: Then we'll get on Google.
• 18:57
  Speaker 12: I've found out all about Google, and I know them.
• 18:59
  Speaker 12: I just can't wait, can't wait to explore everything.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: So you're waiting to make your entry back into the
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: rail world.
• 19:06
  Speaker 12: Yes, And I've told my children that you might still
• 19:09
  Speaker 12: see a little prison in me because I've been down
• 19:12
  Speaker 12: so long. You know, there might be this what mean,
• 19:14
  Speaker 12: there might be this one time when I look at
• 19:16
  Speaker 12: the clock and think it's count time, or not sure
• 19:19
  Speaker 12: if I should answer the telephone, and money is going
• 19:22
  Speaker 12: to be strange to my hands, you know. And so
• 19:26
  Speaker 12: I said, if I act a little different, or if
• 19:28
  Speaker 12: I wander off for an hour or two, don't worry
• 19:30
  Speaker 12: about mom.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: I'm exploring.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Have you thought what your first night of freedom would
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: be like when you can sleep in the bed of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: your own I.
• 19:40
  Speaker 12: Feel it might show me how a little bit of
• 19:42
  Speaker 12: heaven would feel. That's how I think of it, as
• 19:45
  Speaker 12: a little bit of heaven, not in a.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Dome surrounded by other people.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Heaven heaven.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: For twenty years, Martha search has been told what to
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: do and when. All those decisions will soon be hers alone.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Prison inmates on long sentences survive partly on dreams of freedom.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: But in August two thousand and eight, one female offender,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Sarah Pender, actually broke out of Rockville. The convicted double
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: murderer had earlier told me that her escape plan relied
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: on the help of Officer Scott Spitler.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Now, since September, we've been hot on the trail of
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: a woman authorities have called a female Charles Manson. Now
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: recently she was added to the US Marshall's fifteen most
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Wanted list, making her the most wanted woman in America.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: But how on earth do the authorities explain the fact
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that she escaped. Lieutenant Brad Gray was on duty on
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the day of the breakout. Lieutenant Gray, what were your
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: impressions of Sarah Pendall while she was here?
• 21:14
  Speaker 13: She was always trying to get get an advantage over
• 21:18
  Speaker 13: someone or something. It was always about anytime you talk
• 21:22
  Speaker 13: to her, if you ask her a question, she would
• 21:26
  Speaker 13: typically respond with what's in it for me? And when
• 21:29
  Speaker 13: people you know either say that or give you the
• 21:32
  Speaker 13: impression that that's what they're trying to do, then then
• 21:34
  Speaker 13: I should put you on notice that you know you
• 21:37
  Speaker 13: have to be careful about how you're dealing with them.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: She got out through a back door in this recreation building,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: having changed into casual clothes. She hid her prison uniform
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: in the ceiling. The door alarms failed to go off,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and a white van was waiting, with Pender crouching onto
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the backseat. Spitler drove out of the west gate and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: out onto the open road. What were your feelings about
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the fact that this was an officer with whom you
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: would work very closely, someone you knew, someone you had
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: served with, and someone you respected as a as a colleague.
• 22:22
  Speaker 13: Once we discovered that it was him that had driven
• 22:25
  Speaker 13: Pender out of the facility, I was just absolutely sick,
• 22:29
  Speaker 13: just sick to my stomach, physically sick, mentally sick. Over
• 22:32
  Speaker 13: the entire episode.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Sarah Pender proved to be as you had probably thought,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: but when she came in here that she was just
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: as clever and manipulator as you had originally felt.
• 22:46
  Speaker 13: Oh absolutely, she she'd proven her has proven herself to
• 22:49
  Speaker 13: be that time and time again, and that is probably
• 22:52
  Speaker 13: the best proof of it right then and there. If
• 22:57
  Speaker 13: you can convince an officer someone who was trained not
• 23:01
  Speaker 13: to do there's somebody who was trained to maintain.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: The order and.
• 23:06
  Speaker 13: The peace of a facility. If you can convince that
• 23:09
  Speaker 13: person to drive you out of a correctional facility, you
• 23:12
  Speaker 13: can convince anybody to do anything.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: The authorities were bruised by Sarah Pender's escape. She was
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: put in solitary confinement and has now been here for
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: almost five years, longer than any other female prisoner in
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: the state. Of the twelve hundred offenders at Rockville Correctional Facility,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: eighty five percent of them are mothers. I'm on my
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: way to dormitory too. When new arrivals to the prison
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: are hounds.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Paula Macintosh, a mother of four, was beginning the difficult
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: process of adjustment. Paula, what was your first night like here,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: like going in and seeing all the new girls. Was
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: it a very talkative dome? Did you get some sleep?
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: They let me sleep, They helped me. They talked to
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: me a little bit, tell me if I needed any
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: shamefood or anything. They'd helped me out. But yeah, a
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: lot of noise, a lot of echoes. You can wake
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: up easy.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: You know. What was the biggest shock to you coming
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: into intake?
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: When you like get like not really to intate, Just
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: like when you drive up in that vehicle and you
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: turn around and that like the last gate clothes, it's
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: like your heart goes instant. Yeah, it's really hard.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Will you have a visit soon or no?
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: My family won't come up here, Like my dad, like
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: he doesn't really come and see us, because he does,
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: it's just really hard on him.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: So I don't.
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure I won't get no business.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Why wouldn't your father come to see you?
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: I think it's too hard on him because there's me
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: and then my brother's eight just turned eighteen, and he's
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: locked up, and it's just like a pattern, you know,
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: and it's I think it's really hard on him, so
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: he won't come and see me.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: It's hard on him, but it's also very tough on
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: you that he wouldn't come.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: To see you.
• 25:38
  Speaker 11: Yep.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Plus he's got my daughter, he's got my nine year
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: old right now, so you know, he's got a lot
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: of responsibilities on him. So I said that I don't
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: know prayer form. That's all I can do.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Your daughter is nine. At that age, she's able to
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: understand the great dal. I wonder what your what your
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: father said to her or says to her about your situations.
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: I'm really Melissa has been like I've been locked up before.
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: My daughter's Melissa, and she's like, she's really strong and
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: she knows everything. I don't lie to her. I told her,
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: she knows about my drug use, she knows about my
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: re she knows everything. And I called her this time
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: and told her I was your own in prison, and
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: she's she's like, just keep your head up.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Gosh, that's uh, pretty ted chairking to be told by
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: your nine year old daughter to keep your head up.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: But even for you to make a call to say
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: that you're going to prison, yes, yeah, And you have
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: no idea when you would see her again.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: No, her dad just got out of prison and he's
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: not seen her, not one time, and she's nine, and
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: I guess he's just like coming around. My dad's letting
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: him come and see her, like visits. So that's like
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: a big step for her to you when it's it's
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: like I'm there and then I'm gone.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: You know, well, I hope your time passes here very quickly,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and I hope that you get a chance to be
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: reunited with your daughter and your family. Thank you, thank
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: you very much for talking to me. Thank you.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: Ah.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: At Indiana Women's Prison, it's morning recreation. It's a chance
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: for inmates to make friends and cultivate relationships, which can
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: be a desperately important part of prison life. Yea, the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: most troublesome offenders have few opportunities to do that. They
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: are confined to this segregation unit. They have one hour
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: out of their cells under escorted shackle, even to go
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: for a shower. Sarah Pender's cell faces that of her friend,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: armed bank robber Desire Hancock.
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: Put this one.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I heard you tighten it up after I put it
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: on you.
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: Why step back?
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: It's about.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: But I noticed your opposite Sarah Pender.
• 28:57
  Speaker 8: Yes, I love her.
• 28:58
  Speaker 14: That's one of my very good friends, very good friends.
• 29:01
  Speaker 14: She I would like to give her a lot of
• 29:04
  Speaker 14: credit for partly the woman that I am today. Like
• 29:08
  Speaker 14: when I get ready to show out or I'll get
• 29:10
  Speaker 14: ready to snap because this place will take you there.
• 29:12
  Speaker 14: She'll be like, desiree shut up or shut up, go
• 29:16
  Speaker 14: sit down, and I'll go sit down. I'll calm down
• 29:19
  Speaker 14: and a place like this. Friend is not a word
• 29:21
  Speaker 14: that you just throw around, and it's not something that
• 29:24
  Speaker 14: you just say, because women are very vindictive creatures and
• 29:28
  Speaker 14: they're very fake and they're very just caddy. They would
• 29:32
  Speaker 14: smile on your face and they would just be like, hey,
• 29:34
  Speaker 14: and I just hope nothing but the best for you.
• 29:36
  Speaker 14: And then you turn around and they even blue slip you,
• 29:38
  Speaker 14: like thirty five times and trying to get you and
• 29:39
  Speaker 14: your girlfriend separated.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: How close do these relationships get? You mentioned women and
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: her girlfriend. That's it's a pretty pretty.
• 29:46
  Speaker 14: Get pretty deep, pretty deep, pretty deep, they get pretty deep.
• 29:49
  Speaker 14: A lot of women don't come in you're gay. I
• 29:51
  Speaker 14: wasn't when I came to prison, but I am now, and.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: You will become.
• 29:56
  Speaker 14: Yes, yes, yes, I'm a lesbian. Yes I am.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: But you you discovered that or you became that when
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you were here, you three.
• 30:05
  Speaker 14: Years before I came to prison to a man.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, Uh, it's just I don't know.
• 30:12
  Speaker 14: Loneliness is what started it. And then I don't know.
• 30:17
  Speaker 14: One thing led to another, and it may seem fake
• 30:19
  Speaker 14: on outside, but emotions and feelings are real.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: And you have had such a deep relationship in this.
• 30:27
  Speaker 14: Two great loves. I've had a dozen relationships, but I
• 30:31
  Speaker 14: had two.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Great loves and I had been this person.
• 30:35
  Speaker 14: And I will say that I damaged both of them.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I damaged both of them. How did you do that?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: How did you?
• 30:43
  Speaker 14: Being a cheater a liar? Just it was like being
• 30:46
  Speaker 14: a cheater and liar, like when you're in a relationship.
• 30:49
  Speaker 14: It's like being a kid in candy store. It's not
• 30:51
  Speaker 14: just one It's not one girl. It's seven hundred and
• 30:54
  Speaker 14: forty girls. So and out of seven hundred and forty,
• 30:57
  Speaker 14: probably only forty ain't gay. The rest of them this
• 30:59
  Speaker 14: is the gay's place on earth. The rest of them
• 31:02
  Speaker 14: were all gay.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: It's lunchtime on Unit thirteen. Inmates follow a well marked
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: out route to the food. I meet up again with
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Eddie Hart, who is hoping very too to leave this
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: place for good. Am I allowed to grab one of these?
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'll grab Okay. What's on the venue today?
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: This is a chicken patty with gravy. What is this
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: a chicken patty. Okay, gravy this is supposed to be cabbage.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: And this is some kind of Spanish rice.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sure Spanish rice.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, some of that's really not bad. I'm bashing the food,
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: but some of it really isn't that bad. Like I'm
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: gonna eat this stuff. You guys ready to say grace? Yes, okay,
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: dear Lord, we coming to you and thank you for
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: this meal. We ask that you blessing, let it be
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: in urishment to our bodies. And you're precious saying me
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: praying thank you. Amen. Amen. The gravy is to watery,
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: so made it really soggy.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: The other thing is about this place, which is very obvious,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: is that this is an old female environment. Yeah with
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: you had to get used.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: To, right. And that's kind of funny because on the
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: streets I never really hung around females. But there's people
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: here that I'm I'm close with. We needs one of 'em.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: This is crusher. We're close, not like sisters, but you know,
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: just close people that you're you bond with and have
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: fun with. Yeah, it's okay.
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: We all have a common bond, no matter your crime,
• 33:16
  Speaker 6: we all have a common bond, like it's we could
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: see someone like, of course you're having a bad day,
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: or Addie have a bad day, and then she cried.
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: You know, this is a no touch facility when I'm
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: supposed to be hugging.
• 33:25
  Speaker 15: But we either I feel like women need t to
• 33:28
  Speaker 15: the comfort of Hey, it's gonna be alright, and then
• 33:31
  Speaker 15: if you you can tell me all day, but if
• 33:33
  Speaker 15: you touch me and let me know it's gonna be alright.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: Keep everything surfaced, you know, is everything on the sefia?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: So uh, are there deeper relationships in that in here?
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, plenty of 'em. But I try not to
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: get involved in all that. I've then involved with deeper
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: relationships in here and it just didn't really go well.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: So I just try not.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: So you well you said I just didn't go well.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: No, not like you feel like it's going well while
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: it's going. But once they're like out of sight they
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: go home or something, it never goes as planned. Like
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: all the words they've said, it doesn't add up.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Now, you're looking forward to being out in a few months,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: But what what are the fears? What are the worries
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: about this well that you're going into off to six
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: seven eightys well, what concerns you really?
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: Just the fact of being quit back in the same environment,
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: the same surroundings, you know, and making the other choice,
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: not the negative choice. So what'd I say? I don't
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: like you looking at wonder can I have?
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: You're looking at the cabbage. You can have my cabbage? Yes, please,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: please have my cabbage.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: We're allowed this year.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: So you you have two cabbages. Today's right, you'll take
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: the chicken patty. I'm glad my present is having some purpose.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: So you left me. You've left me bread and rice,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: everything right?
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: What that money?
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much, ladies.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: That's how it works around here.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Will you will you miss out e?
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: Do you miss?
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: Yes? I will.
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: To me she's a youngster, so I think it's my
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: job to put some meat on her brain, me put
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: a little knowledge on her so she won't come back
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: here because this is not where you want to be.
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: I keep her grounded, Like if she's mad, I'll be like, okay, yea,
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: let's talk.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Do you think that she's going to stay out of trouble?
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: I think so.
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: I think she got her right.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: She has babies, so.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: It kind of keeps me really motifiate.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: That's the big punch for you too, is that you
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: have your life back with your with your children.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, the biggest thing. I just can't wait. They deserve
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: so much more, you know, Like, this has been my life,
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: and this is my parents' life, and this was their
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: parents' life, and I'm just so ready to break that curse,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: that cycle.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: The prison officers I spoke to were optimistic that once
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: she's released, Addie Harts stands a good chance of keeping
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: out of trouble. At the end of my first visit,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I asked to see the convicted double murderer Sarah Pender again.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Hi Sir. Once described as America's most wanted woman, her
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: notoriety is a far cry from her formative years and
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: life as a college student. All that change. In the
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: year two thousand, Pender was charged with the murder of
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: a couple with whom she shared a house. They were
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: actually shot by her boyfriend, Richard Howell, but the prosecution
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: believed that Sarah Pender was instrumental in planning the murder.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: She bought the murder weapon, and she helped to dispose
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: of the bodies. In this skip, she.
• 37:36
  Speaker 16: Has a Charles Manson like ability to manipulate people to
• 37:42
  Speaker 16: act as surrogates foreign committing crimes. The evidence was overwhelming
• 37:47
  Speaker 16: that if she didn't pull the trigger, she did everything else.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Pender has always admitted helping to get rid of the bodies,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: but she strenuously denies minding the killings. But she failed
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to convince the jury. Pender was found guilty of double murder.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I kept hoping to get to the bottom of the
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Sarah Penders story. Okay, the thing that I have always
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: got from the conversations we've had before is that you
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: are not typical of the people in this prison environment. Generally,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: would you agree.
• 38:35
  Speaker 11: I would?
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: I would I. I have a wider worldview, and I
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: think that I've been able to glean more wisdom than
• 38:48
  Speaker 8: the typical person. I'm generally more educated. I have five
• 38:54
  Speaker 8: years of college.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Why did you choose the path that ended you up here?
• 39:00
  Speaker 8: It was an emotional attachment to someone who when I
• 39:04
  Speaker 8: found out that he dealt drugs, that I accepted it
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: because I didn't want to lose him.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: So at every stage you were aware of where that
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: codependency was taking you.
• 39:19
  Speaker 8: Yes, I went into the relationship with my eyes open. However,
• 39:24
  Speaker 8: I was very, very naive, and I never thought that
• 39:28
  Speaker 8: it would bring harm to me or anyone that I loved,
• 39:32
  Speaker 8: And like most women, I thought that I could change him,
• 39:36
  Speaker 8: and I asked him to stop selling drugs and to
• 39:39
  Speaker 8: get a real job, and he agreed, And that was
• 39:45
  Speaker 8: the path that I thought we were going on at
• 39:47
  Speaker 8: the time.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Were you were aware that there were guns in the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: house or a gun in the house.
• 39:51
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I bought the gun. It was my gun. He
• 39:56
  Speaker 8: asked me to buy my gun.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: If someone asked me to buy a gun, my foot
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: question would be a why me, why are you asking
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: me to do it? And what are you going to
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: use it for? Did you ask those questions?
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 40:08
  Speaker 8: And he told me that I was the only person
• 40:10
  Speaker 8: who was who didn't have a criminal background, because.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: That in itself is hopefully suspicious.
• 40:16
  Speaker 8: Well, you can't in America. You can't buy a firearm
• 40:19
  Speaker 8: legally if you have a felony, and so I was
• 40:22
  Speaker 8: the only person who was legally able to buy it.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: But I'm talking about the fact that you were being
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: asked by a gun by a felon the thought of.
• 40:31
  Speaker 8: Being left alone frightened me more than whatever consequences would
• 40:39
  Speaker 8: come from purchasing a firearm.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: What kind of a gun was this.
• 40:47
  Speaker 8: It was a shotgun that you would use for hunting,
• 40:52
  Speaker 8: like I think birds. I don't know.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't pick it out, but in the end it
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: was not to use for hunting birds. It was used
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: for shooting two people with whom he was in a disagreement.
• 41:05
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 41:06
  Speaker 8: Well he actually had no disagreement with a woman. He
• 41:10
  Speaker 8: said it he share just because she was a witness.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: The bare fact of the matter is that you purchased
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: a gun which was used in the killing of two people.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Did you think about the victims of the people who
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: were killed in this in this crime, I think about
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: them all the time.
• 41:40
  Speaker 8: I thing more about their families. The woman had three kids,
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: Patricia's she had three children, and uh, despite the fact
• 41:53
  Speaker 8: that they were both felons drug dealers, doesn't matter if
• 41:56
  Speaker 8: there were still people and they have families that love them,
• 41:58
  Speaker 8: just like I have a family that loves me, and
• 42:01
  Speaker 8: they can't ever get those people back.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: What did you think when you heard the judge of
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: the prosecutor pronounced a sentence on you cause you you
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: you were give nem a very long two very long sentences.
• 42:14
  Speaker 8: Yes, I was uh given one hundred and ten years A.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Hundred and ten years yep. What were your emotions on
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: hearing that dreadful sentence?
• 42:35
  Speaker 8: Disbelief?
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Why did the jury in the end conclude that you
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: were directly involved in the murder of two people.
• 42:55
  Speaker 8: I knew that I had. I knew that I had
• 42:57
  Speaker 8: committed a crime. Uh, but I knew I wasn't guilty
• 43:03
  Speaker 8: of murder, and and I was willing to take responsibility.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: For my actions in that case. It was was it
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: in somebody's mind, the mind of the prosecutors, the prosecuting authorities,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: that you had somehow encouraged or manipulated him into doing
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: into into committing those murders.
• 43:30
  Speaker 8: Yes, yes, that was their theory that I had that
• 43:34
  Speaker 8: I had. This is where the entire or the entire
• 43:39
  Speaker 8: reputation of manipulation, that I a manipulator came from. The
• 43:44
  Speaker 8: prosecutor had went forward on the theory that I had
• 43:49
  Speaker 8: manipulated Richard into murdering, murdering the victims, and his theory
• 43:56
  Speaker 8: was that I wanted them out of my house.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: You are being judged or you were seen, you were
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: perceived as a two faced manipulator.
• 44:08
  Speaker 8: Yeah, which is really hard label to carry. Every time
• 44:11
  Speaker 8: I meet somebody new if they are aware of my
• 44:14
  Speaker 8: infamous reputation. It's a new hurdle jump, and that's a
• 44:21
  Speaker 8: consequence of my actions.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Next week, I talked to a woman who took the
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: life of a three month old son. So you were
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: clastly as a baby killer.
• 44:45
  Speaker 8: I was that.
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: I am that.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: I'm a lot more than that as well, but that's
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: who I am.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I meet new born Zayden. What would you tell your
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: son when he is old enough about where he was born,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: in the circumstances in which he was born.
• 45:04
  Speaker 11: I would just tell him that mommy made a big
• 45:06
  Speaker 11: mistake and hopefully he won't ever come to a place
• 45:10
  Speaker 11: like this.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: And I speak to a murderer who managed to stay
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: on the run for thirty five years.
• 45:18
  Speaker 11: I heard something coming in the back door and I thought,
• 45:23
  Speaker 11: oh no, it's the cops.