Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 15 October

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The Kenny Report | 15 October · The Kenny Report

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is The Kenny Report.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Good on you, Ross. Thank you. The Kenny Report tonight.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Steve Price in the chair. And if there was ever
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: more landmines going off for a federal government with a
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: thumping majority in the lower house, I certainly can't recall
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: it in history. Travel waste, tax anger, aged care attacks,
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: interest rates, cost of living, not to mention tension between
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: the Prime Minister and his Treasurer. We'll be all over
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: all of that tonight. Coming up, the stalled $ 1. 3 billion
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: gold mine in New South Wales, halted by an Indigenous
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: dreaming story about a bee, now back up and running
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: after a federal court judgment. Susan MacDonald, the Shadow Resources Minister,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: will join us from Canberra. Can politics get any more
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: desperate and cynical than Victorian Labor tossing abortion into the
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: middle of the election campaign six weeks from polling day?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Herald Sun political reporter Carly Douglas on the desk with
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: me tonight. Plus, Liberal shadow small business minister Jacinta Nampajimpa
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Price on Labor's Anne Arley as the minister fights to
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: keep her job in the wake of not knowing what
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to do about small business and now a travel expenses scandal.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: And our panel, Tim Blair and Mark Nicholson, on predictions
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: overnight from the former Victorian Premier, Steve Brax, unwisely, I think,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: predicting that One Nation's support will fizzle out before Election Day.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I reckon Steve Brax is dreaming. But first, though, there
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: has always been, rightly so in my view, an unwritten
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: rule in Australian politics that we don't need or don't
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: want US-style abortion arguments in our elections. I'm old enough
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: to remember emotional arguments around abortion rights in places in
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: elections like South Australia and Victoria in the 80s. Abortion
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: has largely been left off federal election debates. Well, a
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: desperate Victorian Labor Party... facing defeat in six weeks' time
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: after more than a decade in power, disgracefully and desperately
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: played the abortion card overnight. And make no mistake, this
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: is an attempt to wedge politically Liberal leader Jess Wilson's
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: union and the union headquarters, Trades Hall, is hand in
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: hand with this, by the way, Premier Ben Carroll and
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: his advisers trying to turn up the temperature on abortion
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: rights when it's not even vaguely an election issue. I mean,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: take a look at this poster that was timed to
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: coincide with this union government smear campaign. Disgraceful it is.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: The Health Minister, Ingrid Stitt, she was wheeled out this morning,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: later that we'll hear from Ben Carroll, drawing the short
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: straw to try and justify this abortion scare.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: But this is politicising women's reproductive rights because this is
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: a vote grab.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Why not do it months ago?
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  Speaker 4: I don't agree with.
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: the premise of that question for a couple of reasons.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: Abortion care is health care. We are not playing politics
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: with this at all.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. So what exactly is happening here? I mean, simple, really.
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  Speaker 2: One nation's Victorian leader has expressed his view that that
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Victoria's current 24-week legal limit for abortions should be scaled
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: back to 12 weeks. That's their policy. The Victorian Liberal
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Party leader, Jess Wilson, earlier today pledged no changes to
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: current abortion laws if she wins in November. Here she
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: was at a media conference this morning.
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: I think Victorians know where I stand on this issue.
• 3:33
  Speaker 6: There will be no changes to abortion laws under a
• 3:36
  Speaker 6: government I lead full stop. And I think it's incredibly
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: disappointing to see Labor playing politics with women's reproductive rights
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: five minutes before an election.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Well, that didn't last long. By this afternoon, News 24
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: was reporting there will be a change where it relates
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: to costs. This relates to apparently to cover out of
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: pocket costs for care, abortion care up to 16 weeks. Now,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: it seems Labor's wedge has worked, but I still think
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: it is one of the most dirty wedges I can remember. Overnight,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: backed by their union mates at Trades Hall. pledged if
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: they elected, they will legislate for taxpayers to fund surgical
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: abortions up to 16 weeks and medical abortions currently costing
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: $ 700 of out-of-pocket after Medicare is included. That will be free.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, to chase regional votes, this mob have even
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: tossed in subsidies for fuel and accommodation for those women
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: needing to travel to Melbourne, presumably for an abortion. But
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: the worst aspect of this trades hall are running a
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: campaign suggesting if the coalition win, they, in union words,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: the Liberals, won't have the guts to stop them. I mean,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: this is all about One Nation and trying to tie
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: the coalition to the One Nation Party. Of course, this
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: ignores the fact that the coalition can win in their
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: own right, making this entire exercise nothing but a dirty
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: scare campaign by a desperate Labor government. I mean, you
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: have to ask, how low can they actually go? Let's
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: turn our attention to Canberra now and... You wouldn't have
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: thought things could get much worse for Labor and the
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: veteran affairs minister, you've got veteran affairs minister Matt Keogh
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: and his bungling of that portfolio, including oversight of inviting
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the parents of Aussie soldiers who died in the conflict
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: to a memorial service there last weekend, marking our Afghanistan engagement. Well,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you it can get worse. Current
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: small business minister and former minister for international development, and
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Multicultural Affairs, Anne R Lee, is giving him a fair
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: run for his money of the title of the most
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: incompetent minister in government. Now, no one likes in a
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: cost of living crisis where all of us are paying
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: inflated prices for everything from petrol, diesel, electricity, food, mortgages
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: and rent to discover a taxpayer funded politician gallivanting around
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the world on your dime. Well, as the News Limited
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: tabloids report today, that's exactly what Anne Arleigh has been doing.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: She has billed you, the taxpayer, wait for this, more
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: than $ 150, 000 to visit nine countries in 17 months.
• 6:23
  Speaker 6: Why?
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Well, she's tried to defend the travel by suggesting the
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: opposition and critics don't understand her portfolio. OK, try this
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: on for size. 27 days overseas, four trips between June
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: 28 last year and November 6th last year. And what
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: exactly was Anne Arley up to? Well, a week in Spain,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: costing you $ 42, 907. 20, where she signed a memorandum with the
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Spanish government to, here we go, deepen cooperation on gender equality.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, seriously? Then another $ 18, 649 in Indonesia to build
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: on development assistance. And then, whatever that means, and then
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: five days across India and Bangladesh, costing another $ 34, 516. and
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: 74 cents where she was filmed dancing at a Diwali festival.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: But wait, there's more. She dropped $ 54, 884. 70 in Bahrain, Jordan
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: and Qatar to attend something called the Studies Manamar Dialogue.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: This apparently focuses, according to the Herald Sun and the
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Daily Telegraph, on foreign policy and defence strategies in the
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Middle East. The minister was grilled in question time today.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Have a listen.
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  Speaker 7: Today the Daily Telegraph revealed the Minister spent more than
• 7:48
  Speaker 7: $ 150, 000 travelling to nine countries in four months. 30 businesses
• 7:54
  Speaker 7: have gone bust every single day she's been overseas.
• 7:58
  Speaker 8: Order.
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  Speaker 7: Minister, when are you going to stop jetting around the
• 8:01
  Speaker 7: world and start fighting for small business?
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  Speaker 9: As the member is aware, I'm also the Minister for
• 8:06
  Speaker 9: International Development, which is a portfolio within foreign affairs and
• 8:10
  Speaker 9: trade and which obviously has a requirement for me to
• 8:14
  Speaker 9: travel internationally on behalf of our country.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So I have to ask, why was a relatively junior
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: minister even at any of these things? Last time I looked,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: we have diplomats in all of those countries. We have embassies.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: We have trade commissioners servicing places like Spain. I mean,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: talk about wasting taxpayers' money and grandstanding. These people, and
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: to make things worse, Ali is now the small business minister,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: as that sector battles insolvencies every day of the week.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I just don't get it. Now, just before I go
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: to Susan McDonald, another day, another IBAC finding in Victoria
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: around COVID payments made during the Andrews government's handling of
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: the pandemic, as bad as that was. IBAC is, of course,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: the independent corruption body. Now, in a report today, breathtaking
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: revelations that 9,000 businesses scooped up a quarter of a
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: billion dollars in grants they were not entitled to. Now,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: as I said, this is breathtaking. Story broken in the
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Herald Sun this afternoon. I'll talk to Carly Douglas about
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: it shortly. But six weeks out from an election, it
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: could not have come at a worse time for Premier Carroll.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: In summary, Operation Harmonia, done by IBAC, has uncovered that
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  Speaker 2: $ 257 million was handed to ineligible applicants who backdated tax
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: records with over $ 108 million going to businesses that hadn't
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: traded at all for three years. IBAC alleges public servants
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: then covered up the mistakes and this was only uncovered
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: after whistleblowers spoke up. I'll have more to come on
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: that shortly. Now, as I mentioned at the top of
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: the program, another Labor minister in hot water is Tanya Plibersek. Now,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: that's after the federal court yesterday overturned her decision to
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: block the Blaney gold mine. Chris has talked about this
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: many times. It was all over a bee. She made
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the call while overseeing the environment portfolio. That was back
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: in 2024, siding with a group of disputed Aboriginal heritage
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: claim people over a Dreamtime story, as I said, involving
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a bee. Locals, as we've seen on News 24 today,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: are adamant the project is badly needed and needs to
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: go ahead. Tanya Plibersek was on News 24 this morning.
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  Speaker 2: She wasn't all that keen to answer questions about the case.
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: Perhaps heritage is put too far above economic prosperity?
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  Speaker 10: No, and I really don't want to go into the
• 10:50
  Speaker 10: merits of this case in case there are further legal
• 10:53
  Speaker 10: processes down the track. So I'm not going to give
• 10:55
  Speaker 10: a running commentary on it. The court decision doesn't in
• 10:59
  Speaker 10: any way reflect on the decision around cultural heritage here.
• 11:02
  Speaker 10: It was a process decision.
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  Speaker 2: The old use the court to dodge the question. Shadow
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Resources Minister Susan McDonald joins us. Susan, why can't Labor
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: just admit they got this decision completely wrong, they got conned?
• 11:16
  Speaker 11: Well, I think there's a real opportunity for them to
• 11:19
  Speaker 11: start supporting investment in Australia, new mines, new jobs, at
• 11:25
  Speaker 11: a time when, of course, unemployment is starting to really
• 11:28
  Speaker 11: rise under Labor. So this decision was found not to
• 11:33
  Speaker 11: have been properly made. We had the department advising the
• 11:36
  Speaker 11: minister to approve the mine. We had the local Orange
• 11:41
  Speaker 11: Local Land Council who supported the mine, the community, the workforce.
• 11:46
  Speaker 11: It's cost Regis $ 2 million to $ 3 million to appeal
• 11:51
  Speaker 11: this unsound decision. I really hope that Murray Watt is
• 11:54
  Speaker 11: going to get it right this time, but we have
• 11:57
  Speaker 11: got to stop providing so much uncertainty for investment in
• 12:02
  Speaker 11: mining in Australia because every project that's delayed or stalled
• 12:07
  Speaker 11: or worse doesn't go ahead at all is a new school,
• 12:10
  Speaker 11: it's a new hospital, it's new funding, new jobs that
• 12:14
  Speaker 11: Australia absolutely needs.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Well, someone who gets it is obviously New South Wales
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Premier Chris Mintzer, because, I mean, he has come out
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: and said that he supports the mine that should have
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: gone ahead in the first place.
• 12:28
  Speaker 12: That's exactly right.
• 12:29
  Speaker 11: I mean, you're hard-pressed to find anybody who doesn't support
• 12:32
  Speaker 11: the mine, but we have just loaded that business, Regis,
• 12:35
  Speaker 11: with another $ 2 million or $ 3 million legal bill. The uncertainty,
• 12:40
  Speaker 11: the small businesses, the contractors who'd started gearing up for
• 12:43
  Speaker 11: the project, the alignment of the pipeline, there's so many
• 12:48
  Speaker 11: additional costs that have been generated by this Labor government
• 12:52
  Speaker 11: because they cannot make a decision based on just getting
• 12:55
  Speaker 11: on with the job. How much are we going to
• 12:58
  Speaker 11: be tied up in legal quagmires and uncertainty, whether through
• 13:04
  Speaker 11: badly made decisions like Tanya Plibersek's or the fact that
• 13:08
  Speaker 11: they continue to fund the Environmental Defender's Office. They continue
• 13:12
  Speaker 11: to allow cultural heritage to be, frankly, abused, whether it
• 13:16
  Speaker 11: be confected evidence on the Tipalipa case on the Browse project,
• 13:21
  Speaker 11: now the blue-banded bumblebee at Orange. They have got to
• 13:25
  Speaker 11: start listening to the proper authorities who has been given
• 13:30
  Speaker 11: to people like the Orange Local Land Council. You know,
• 13:34
  Speaker 11: this is... a government that seems to have its priorities
• 13:38
  Speaker 11: all upside down, and yet who gets it the hardest? Well,
• 13:42
  Speaker 11: it's Australians, Australian employees, Australian employers, Australian taxpayers, all of
• 13:49
  Speaker 11: whom are missing out because the government just can't get
• 13:51
  Speaker 11: their priorities right.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Do you understand that there's more of these types of
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: claims coming down the line? And if so, do you
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: have any confidence that Murray Watt will treat them differently?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And can we use now that federal court decision yesterday
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: on this case, on other cases, or is that just
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: a one standalone decision?
• 14:13
  Speaker 11: Well, I certainly, I would imagine that all of the
• 14:16
  Speaker 11: other Section 10 applications across the country should be looking
• 14:21
  Speaker 11: at whether or not they have good standing. And I
• 14:25
  Speaker 11: will have to go through and see how many other
• 14:27
  Speaker 11: decisions were made by Minister Plibersek. But I certainly know
• 14:30
  Speaker 11: that when she made this decision at Orange on the
• 14:34
  Speaker 11: Blamey gold mine, that there was certainly then other applications made,
• 14:39
  Speaker 11: which just gives you an indication of of what happens
• 14:41
  Speaker 11: when a government opens the door to activists and opens
• 14:45
  Speaker 11: the door to legal uncertainty and challenge, you will see
• 14:49
  Speaker 11: projects delayed. We cannot keep doing this. Australia should be
• 14:54
  Speaker 11: a resources superpower, providing not just our traditional commodities but
• 14:59
  Speaker 11: critical minerals, rare earths to the world, supporting our own prosperity.
• 15:05
  Speaker 11: And yet all we've seen under this government is delays, uncertainty,
• 15:10
  Speaker 11: legal challenges thrown up, funding for environmental activists and an
• 15:17
  Speaker 11: unwillingness to have some plain speak support projects that should
• 15:22
  Speaker 11: be supported, that are supported, as we've already discovered by
• 15:25
  Speaker 11: the local workforce, the local council, the local traditional owners.
• 15:29
  Speaker 11: Even the Premier supported this project. And yet Minister Plibersek
• 15:33
  Speaker 11: went off on some jaunt to find another reason to
• 15:38
  Speaker 11: challenge a perfectly well-made application for a gold mine in
• 15:41
  Speaker 11: that region.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it happens, of course, in the shadow of
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: unemployment going up again today. And my colleague Ross Greenwood's
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: just let me know that in between now and two
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: years ago, another 120,000 Australians are out of work.
• 15:57
  Speaker 11: Well, this is, I guess, the very obvious result of
• 16:01
  Speaker 11: a government that hates small business. If it was up
• 16:04
  Speaker 11: to the Albanese government, small businesses would close up, certainly
• 16:09
  Speaker 11: shut up, the tax changes. At every turn, we are
• 16:13
  Speaker 11: now seeing small businesses close at a faster rate than
• 16:16
  Speaker 11: since we've been keeping records. And of course, when small
• 16:19
  Speaker 11: businesses close, employees lose their jobs. So we've now got
• 16:24
  Speaker 11: Australians who are under, you know, the triple whammy of
• 16:27
  Speaker 11: rising cost of living thanks to inflation, thanks to the
• 16:30
  Speaker 11: government's out of control spending. Interest rate rises, again, thanks
• 16:35
  Speaker 11: to the government's out-of-control spending. And now, job insecurity. I mean,
• 16:40
  Speaker 11: it couldn't get much worse for Australians, but all of
• 16:43
  Speaker 11: this has been created by the Albanese Labor government. They'll
• 16:46
  Speaker 11: try and tell you that it's due to the war
• 16:49
  Speaker 11: in the Ukraine, the Hormuz Strait closure, but be clear,
• 16:55
  Speaker 11: this is rising electricity costs and energy costs thanks to
• 16:59
  Speaker 11: the government's renewables-only mandate. It is a cost of living
• 17:05
  Speaker 11: at every turn that is rising under this government. And
• 17:09
  Speaker 11: they somehow magically think that government generates jobs.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Well, of course it's not.
• 17:14
  Speaker 12: It's businesses.
• 17:15
  Speaker 11: It's people who take a risk, who mortgage their home,
• 17:18
  Speaker 11: who work their guts out, who create jobs, who create prosperity.
• 17:24
  Speaker 11: We are a nation that's been built on people willing
• 17:26
  Speaker 11: to take a risk sometimes lose it all and start again.
• 17:30
  Speaker 11: But that's what Australians do. We innovate, we take risk,
• 17:34
  Speaker 11: we work bloody hard. And instead, the Albanese government is
• 17:38
  Speaker 11: making it so hard for small business that, of course,
• 17:42
  Speaker 11: they are closing and Australians are losing their jobs.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we might be time for a new small business minister.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Susan McDonald, thank you very much for your time. Appreciate it.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Sticking in Canberra now, the government has abdicated some of
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: its own power from the proposed digital duty of care legislation.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: The communications minister, Annika Wells, says the ability of ministers
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: to decide what constitutes, actually constitutes, serious harm will be
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: taken out of the bill. It follows concerns, of course,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: about free speech being threatened by the power the minister
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: would have. Here she was talking about the bill at
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the press club earlier today.
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: The principle of the digital duty of care is simple.
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: If you create a space where people work, learn or
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: play or relax, you must take reasonable steps to make
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: it safe and to make this abundantly clear. We have
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: removed the ministerial rulemaking power to define new harms in
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: the final bill.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Removed it under pressure, you'd have to say. Let's bring
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: in editor of TechGuide, Stephen Fenwick. Stephen, can you talk
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: us through why that measure... was so controversial that the
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: lobbying meant that it was killed off? Yeah, g'day, Steve.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that the decision should be made not
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: by a single party or a single person, of course. Like,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I think that who decides what should be kept in
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: and kept out. In Australia, we already have a classification
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: department that All content that's released in Australia, there's a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: rating system. And for years, I've been saying instead of
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a social media ban, they could have made it incumbent
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: on the platforms much earlier to enforce some sort of
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: rating system. So this is a measure, I think, to,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: you know, the social media ban is one thing, but
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: here they are trying to sort of get another, get
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: ahead of it. And my fear is that they're trying
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: to break an egg with a sledgehammer by creating something
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: that would make it incumbent on the platforms to enforce this,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: make sure that they know the rules from our own
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: classification departments on what is fit or unfit to be
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: viewed online. What's your best guess on whether this will work? Well, look,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: take the social media ban. I think it's been pretty
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: much a big failure. There's so many people under 16
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: still online. I think that the move they should have
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: taken before that was to make it the platforms problem
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: rather than having an everyone out policy where the platform
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: stays the same, they should have had this kind of
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: drive earlier to ensure that the platforms abide by our
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: classification laws and to make it impose on them the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: responsibility to have that sort of rating structure in place.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Because they're releasing content just like a game developer or
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: a movie producer does. They're producing content for people to
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: enjoy on platforms. The rules should be the same for
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: social media. I think the best idea here would be
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: to establish a social media ombudsman, to have someone who is,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: that's their job to enforce these rules on social media,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: that people can have a way of responding to the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: platforms if something goes wrong, if their accounts get cancelled
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: for no reason. and also to enforce these rules of
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the type of content that they can show on their platforms.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just on that, I mean, we're in the middle
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: of this debate, aren't we not, about this live streaming
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: potentially of a firing squad execution in the United States.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: The minister says she's lobbying tech companies to block that
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: live stream by the US Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Do you... think that the minister asking for that has
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: any way, and you've been ahead on this tech forever,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: has any way of stopping this coming into the country
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: if it happens, if it's live streamed?
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. I think that they probably
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: don't know how the internet works. So I think even
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: if it isn't live streamed and they somehow manage the
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: platforms to block it, within minutes it's going to be
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: on every social media platform, like on Twitter and Instagram.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: You can see a lot worse on those platforms already. So, yeah,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: it's a great gesture for them to lobby that it
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: isn't shown, but it's hard to stop it. The internet's
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: a big place.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's simply words, is it not, Stephen? And they
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: can't really do anything about it. If it comes out,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: it comes out. That's right.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I think they've got to be seen to be
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing. But I think in
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: all seriousness, it'd be pretty hard for them to prevent it.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Good on you, Stephen. Stephen Fennec there. Appreciate it. Now,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: after the break in politics, can any more desperate and
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: cynical than Victorian Labor tossing abortion, as I said at
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: the start of the show, into the middle of the
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: election campaign six weeks from polling day? Herald Sun Politico
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: reporter Carly Douglas. We'll be on the desk up next.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Welcome back. Steve Price in for Chris Kenny. Now, in
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: breaking news out of Victoria this afternoon, the Coalition has now... It, too,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: will pledge free abortion services following Labor's commitment to scrap
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: abortion costs. Now, Opposition Leader Jess Wilson has released a
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: statement saying, and this is from the statement, quote, the
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Liberals and Nationals will not allow Labor... to play politics
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: on this issue. An elected coalition government will ensure women
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: are not out of pocket for medical and surgical care
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: in respect of an abortion up to 16 weeks gestation.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: We've already committed, this is the statement, to utilising spare
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: capacity in the private healthcare system. Let's bring in state
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: political reporter at The Herald Sun, Carly Douglas. Well, That's
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: a pretty desperate move from Labor. The Herald Sun broke
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: this story this morning. We, from what I can remember,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: certainly not since probably the 1980s, have had elections fought
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: around abortion. Is that a sign of how desperate Labor are?
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: It's definitely a desperate move, absolutely, and it has backfired
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: a bit on Labor. Today they have been accused of
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: politicising women's reproductive health, not just by the opposition, by
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: other crossbenchers, female crossbench MPs like Georgie Purcell as well.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: And now the Coalition has obviously... I mean, he could
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: claim this as a bit of a win. He's snookered her.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: He's done exactly what... This has done exactly what he wanted.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it disappoints me what Jess has done. Here's Ben
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Carroll earlier today explaining what he sees as the change.
• 24:25
  Speaker 8: It's political because Labor decriminalised abortion and the Liberal One
• 24:30
  Speaker 8: Nation Coalition want to recriminalise it. So it is political,
• 24:34
  Speaker 8: and Jess Wilson's right to call it political because it is.
• 24:37
  Speaker 8: We decriminalised abortion.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Can he stand up there and say the coalition wants
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: to politicise it? It was him.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Well, it was funny because I was at the press
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: conference with the health minister, Ingrid Stitt, earlier today, and
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: she was saying this is absolutely not political. This is
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: about women. And then the premier comes out in the
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: afternoon and says, no, this absolutely is political. This is
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: about us fighting for women's abortion rights and the coalition
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: being against them. He keeps saying that the Coalition wants
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: to recriminalise abortion. Jess Wilson has been very clear that
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: there would not be any changes to abortion laws, which
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: are currently up to 24 weeks, and for some reasons
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: after 24 weeks. In Victoria, she is not making any
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: changes to those laws.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Now she is.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Well, other than to make it free, apparently, which she's
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: come out with this afternoon.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Trades Hall were involved here. I showed that poster earlier.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: So this is obviously the union movement getting together with Labor, saying, OK,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: how are we going to wedge... the Coalition, not six
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: weeks out from an election campaign, when all the polls
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: have shown that the Coalition, maybe with the help of
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: One Nation, are going to win the election, how can
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: we do it? Do you expect there's going to be
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: more of this before we get to polling day?
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: You would think so. And obviously they've learnt this from
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: up in Queensland, very similar thing that Labor did up there. Well,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: we did work with some in that there was an
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: indication that some inner city female voters, upper class, that
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: they were turning a bit on the Coalition after that
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: scare campaign from them.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: So.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: I'm sure that there will be more of this to come.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: They are a very good machine, Labor, so next six
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: weeks I'm sure we'll see more from them.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Your story this morning, you were at an event where
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Steve Brax, you talked to him last night, a man
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I have great regard for, and reported on him when
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I was back on radio during his time as Premier.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I thought he was the sort of Labor Premier that
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: we actually wouldn't mind having as opposed to the last two,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: but he said he thinks One Nation's support will peter
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: out between now and Election Day. I don't think he's correct.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Was he confident when he was saying that?
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: He was very confident, and this was said at a
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Property Council event. He was up with Ted Bailey as well,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: and he was saying that he believes they will fizzle
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: out before the November 28 poll. He feels like the
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: major parties will win back a little bit more on primary.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: They'll get to about 30. We'll have to see what
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: happens in the next six weeks. There is some indication
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: that One Nation is losing a little bit of momentum,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: but I think we'll have to see how voters kind
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: of play when it comes into November.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: If you ask Steve Brax whether he believes Labor can... win,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: what's he say then?
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: He said he believes there will be a hung parliament.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: He was not putting his confidence behind Ben Carroll.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Who's in charge of the hanging parliament? Is it the
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: coalition needing the support of One Nation or is it
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Labor needing the support of Greens and Independents?
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: He didn't quite go that far. He was very quick,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: hung parliament.
• 27:24
  Speaker 12: That's all he said.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: The preferences, that's obviously going to have a major impact
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: on this election. The Australian has reported the Libs will
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: hold off on holding preference talks. with One Nation until nominations.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I think they close next month. That's what happened during
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the Nepean by-election. And they seem to be going down
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: the same track. They don't seem to be turning on that.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Well, they are expected to preference One Nation, at least
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: in most seats. The issue being, the issue here is
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: that Jess Wilson is in a seat, is in seat
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: of queue. It is pretty anti-One Nation seat in her suburbs.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: She is, she only holds it by 4% margin. She's
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: probably quite spooked as to what could come from preferencing
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: One Nation and doing that so early. She's waiting as
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: long as she possibly can to be able to announce
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: any preference deals. And I guess Labor is very much
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: using this against her at the moment. They're trying to
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: bind One Nation and the Coalition together and they're calling
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: One Nation a racist party. It's kind of put her
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: in this quite shocking position at the moment.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Every voter I talk to, Carly, though, who is a
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: conservative voter... says why don't they just do a deal
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: with One Nation so that come November 28, Labor government
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: doesn't win a fourth term. People are saying just do it.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I guess there's others that believe that teaming up with
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: One Nation is not the way that they want to go.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: People want basics. They want kind of more central politics,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: it seems, at the moment. I think that Jess Wilson
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: is trying to really play Labor and focus on Labor's
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: history and the things that they want to deliver rather
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: than worrying about One Nation.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Well, surely that's the way to go. But, I mean,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: in the background, you're going to have to be going, well,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: if we need them, we need them and we'll have
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: to do deals with them. I mean, Labor has... wedged
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: them today, and that wedge, which we started talking about,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: absolutely has worked.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Well, Jess Wilson has been asked plenty of times whether
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: there would be any kind of coalition, whether that's an
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: informal kind of coalition or whether she has to rely
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: on them for its supply and confidence, and she has
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: not been wanting to give an answer to that. It
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: seems pretty clear that the Liberals, the coalition, would rely
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: on One Nation in some form if they were to
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: get there in a hung parliament situation. Obviously, Ben Carroll
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: has said, oh, no, we would throw the keys back
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: and not work with the Greens, but I think he's
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: saying that because he's quite confident that they could get
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: there on Green seats.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: IBAC today came out with a report during COVID saying
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of businesses... backtracked on their taxes, made
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: claims on the financial scheme up to the tune of
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: half a billion dollars, and those payments were in many
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: cases not justified. I think that again shows that during COVID...
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Dan Andrews might have been in control of us and
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: locked us all up, but he wasn't in control of
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: the money.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Well, it was a very interesting report, and it's terrible
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: timing today, six weeks out from the election, when Ben
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: is trying to fight an election on integrity. He's trying
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: to say, you know, he's not Daniel Andrews, he's not
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Jacinta Allen, he's leading a very different government. But this
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: dredges up what happened during that time. Dan Andrews, there
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: has been no adverse findings made against him or former
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Treasurer Tim Pallis or Ben Carroll. but it does damage
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: to the Labor brand this close to an election.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Great coverage in the Herald Sun. What's your sense on
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: where we're at here?
• 30:44
  Speaker 12: It's interesting.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: Lots of people were talking about having a minority government
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: that Jess might get there, she might have to rely
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: on One Nation, but I feel like it's shifted a
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: little bit now and people have a bit more confidence
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: in a majority Liberal coalition government, I should say, and
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: that Labor is certainly losing a bit of momentum.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Big story tomorrow?
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 31:05
  Speaker 12: We'll see.
• 31:06
  Speaker 13: That's OK.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks. Good to see you again.
• 31:07
  Speaker 9: Thank you.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Carly Douglas here. Up next, Liberal Shadow Small Business Minister
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Jacinta Nampajimpa Price on Labor's Anne Ali as the minister
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: fights to keep her job. I went through the figures.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: They're extraordinary. In the wake of that travel expenses scandal.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I'll talk to Jacinta next. Welcome back. So much happening
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: and unfolding today. We'll get some more of that reaction shortly.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: I'll have a panel coming up shortly as well. Now,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: this week's gone from bad to worse for Small Business
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Minister Anna Lee. The Herald Sun reports a record number
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: of small businesses are now going broke, with 50,000 shutting
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: up shop since the government came to power almost three
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and a half years ago. That's extraordinary. How many shops
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: do you see boarded up around the country? Joining me
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: now is the shadow Small Business Minister Jacinta Nampajimpa Price.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Good to see you again, Jacinta. The government keeps saying, oh, well,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: everything's fine, no worries. And then today we see that
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: 120,000 Australians, more Australians, are out of work in the
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: last two years.
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a shocking state of affairs. You know, for
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: small businesses around the country, they're doing it absolutely tough.
• 32:20
  Speaker 12: They are sick to death.
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: Of this Labor Albanese government and their neglect, the fact
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: that they are faced with increased costs in terms of
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: energy and costs in terms of doing business, insurance, you know,
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: the fact that the government keeps moving the goalposts on
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: them and introducing new taxes and, of course, who can
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: forget the whole credit card surcharge debacle and the ATO
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: removing the opportunity for small businesses to pay their bills
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: to the ATO using a credit card and now backflipping
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: on that and... You've got a Treasurer and a Prime
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: Minister who are now briefing out on each other. I mean,
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: this is just disastrous and the state for small business
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: is just going under. You've got a third of small
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: businesses who've considered closing the doors in the last 12 months.
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: That should be ringing alarm bells for the Labor government,
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: but instead they treat small business as a complete afterthought.
• 33:21
  Speaker 12: It's shocking.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I've sat through question time this week. I mean, it's almost...
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: embarrassing to watch the small business minister, Anna Lee, at
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the dispatch box. Do you think she's got any clue
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: at all about what small business goes through?
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, if she does, she doesn't appear to
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: care so much. I mean, she spent $ 150, 000 of taxpayers'
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: money cruising around the world, nine different countries over 17 months.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: That's a different country every second month. So no wonder
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: things are falling apart back home when you've got a
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: small business minister who's completely taking.
• 34:01
  Speaker 12: The mick, you know.
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: doing things in Spain, signing agreements to do with gender equality. Well,
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: what about small business equality right back here in Australia? And, Ali,
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: they are suffering and they're suffering on your watch. And
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: there seems to be no end in sight, no reprieve
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: in sight for small businesses. The government don't want to
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: change their mind with these changes to trusts. All these issues,
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: all these policies that they've now brought that they didn't
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: take to the previous election and small businesses are wondering
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: what's next. The uncertainty is killing them.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: You've got to say that Anthony Albanese doesn't take it
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: seriously either. I mean, surely you've got to have, like
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: you do, a standalone small business minister. Now, I know
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you've launched a new campaign today titled Jacinta Means Business.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I've had a look at the website. It looks great.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: And you want to hear from as many small business
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: owners as possible. There's that up on the screen. If
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: you scan that QR code on the screen now for
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: anyone who wants to have their say, please do that
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: and let Jacinda know. You're going to get some pretty
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: hairy stories, I imagine, off the back of that.
• 35:17
  Speaker 11: Absolutely.
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: We're hearing all sorts of hairy stories from business owners,
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: those who have been, you know, generations in their businesses
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: who are now turning around to their adult children when
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: they want to then change over to their adult children
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: responsibility for the business.
• 35:33
  Speaker 12: They're actually suggesting... you know what, don't do.
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: This, don't take over, we'll close this down, it's just
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: not worth it, go and get a job in the government.
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, the government has become the biggest competitor for
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: small business. So, what I want to do, I've been
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: getting around speaking to small businesses, much like the Minister
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: hasn't been doing so, but I can't get to every
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: single one. So I want to make sure I hit
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: at least 1,000 small businesses before the end of the year.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: We want to hear these stories. We want to take
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: them back and shame this government with your stories so
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: that maybe they start backflipping on all these tax changes
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: that they want to apply, creating misery for small businesses
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: in this country. But jacintameansbusiness.com is where I urge small
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: businesses to go.
• 36:18
  Speaker 12: If I don't get to.
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: Meet you face-to-face, well, then I want to hear you
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: through my website so we can continue to fight for
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: small business in this country.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable the government could think that they could come
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: out and announce, bang, if you want to pay your
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: tax on a credit card any longer, you're not going
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: to be able to do that. Now they've had this
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: sort of mini backflip, Anthony Albanese. has been shamed into
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: doing it. Jim Chalmers has obviously been overruled. But if
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: you had any knowledge of how the finances of a
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: small business works, there's no way that you would even
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: contemplate doing that.
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: Well, that's exactly right. It's a cash flow issue for
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: small businesses. You know, when the cash flow is low,
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: when they might be struggling during low times, what they
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: will do is they'd pay their bills using a credit
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: card and then be able to pay that off slowly
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: when the cash flow is working for them. You know,
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: if small businesses... have to absorb credit card surcharges, as
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: they have been doing already, and some of those have
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: been doing it to the detriment of their business when
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: they have to increase the price of their products for
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: their consumers, well, then the ATO can do the very
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: same thing. Again, it's another measure that's making it tough,
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: small businesses. But you know what? I have a goal
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: and I want Australia to become the best place to
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: run a small business with a skilled workforce to back
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: them up.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Give us that web address again so that people can
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: get in touch.
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: JacintaMeansBusiness.com.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Well done. Good on you, Jacinta. Good to see you again, Jacinta.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Nampa Jimpa Price there, and she speaks a lot of sense.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Time to bring in our panel tonight, the Daily Telegraph's
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Tim Blair and Victoria's One Nation candidate, Mark Nicholson. Welcome
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: to you both. Mark, my column in the Herald Sun
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: last week, you picked it up on Saturday, and off-the-cuff
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: comments that you made at the One Nation launch that
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: you would personally like to see the Premier Andrews and
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Alan in jail by Christmas. Well, that's what most Victorians
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: were thinking. You're happy that I stuck up for you, mate?
• 38:24
  Speaker 13: Mate, I was absolutely stoked you stood up for me, mate. Like,
• 38:28
  Speaker 13: I didn't get it a lot, to be honest. I
• 38:29
  Speaker 13: think it was you and the ABC, of all places,
• 38:33
  Speaker 13: that quoted me correctly. If they keep playing their game right,
• 38:37
  Speaker 13: we might let them back in the.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Press conference, to be honest. Hey, Tim, what's going on
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: with the ABC sticking up for One Nation, mate?
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: They're moving in on my territory. This is a bit unfair.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: You know, like, do I get a billion dollars in
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: taxpayer money as well? Is that the thing, if we're
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: all on the same page? Come on, it's a bit rugged.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about Frido, better known as the former Treasurer,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Josh Frydenberg. He's been on... A publicity blitz? You're kidding.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: It's more than a publicity blitz. He's promoting this book
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: at a Melbourne launch last night. He labelled former Victorian
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Premier Tim Dan Andrews, quote, a bad guy. Sorry, I
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: would have gone a little stronger than a bad guy, Tim.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: I would have gone stronger and also a bit earlier because,
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: you know, Josh having experienced go at Dan Andrews at
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: this point is like a pair of old-timers arguing about
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: a free kick that was paid in a grand final
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: 17 years ago. It doesn't really matter. In the meantime,
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: he's sticking to his guns about net zero, refusing to dismiss.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: Or to recognise that he made a huge mistake in
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: supporting net zero in the first place. That's a live
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: political issue. If he wants to revive his political career
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: and if he's releasing a book without wanting to revive
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: his career, there's really no point to the book. If
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: he wants to revive it, he's got to tackle today's issues.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: instead of going after some old has-been called Dan, who
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: apparently might be in Pentridge by the time Christmas rolls around.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Well, if Mark says his way, he'll be in Pentridge
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: by then.
• 40:10
  Speaker 12: By Christmas, yeah, of course, fair trial.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Josh Frydenberg, in a sense, Mark, is the problem the
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Liberals have. They've got what they call a broad church.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: It's a church as wide as the English Channel. I mean,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: it's that broad. I mean, they've got all these people
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: from the left who are still largely in control. And
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I think, and I know Tim will probably agree with me,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: that's what's driving ex-liberal voters to One Nation.
• 40:35
  Speaker 12: Mate, and they're soft, to be honest. We're the only conservative.
• 40:39
  Speaker 13: One Nation's the only conservative party left in town. To
• 40:41
  Speaker 13: be honest, we say the hard thing when it's hard.
• 40:44
  Speaker 13: This is a classic example.
• 40:45
  Speaker 12: I said, let's put him in jail before Christmas, and
• 40:47
  Speaker 12: then he comes out and says.
• 40:49
  Speaker 13: That he's a bad guy. You've got to pump the
• 40:51
  Speaker 13: gas if you want to win some votes back. You've
• 40:53
  Speaker 13: got to pump the gas if you want to win
• 40:54
  Speaker 13: the conservative votes back. One Nation's the only conservative party
• 40:57
  Speaker 13: left in town.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: So I woke up this morning and I read the
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: front page of the Herald Sun where Labor has decided
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: to throw an abortion bomb into the election campaign by...
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: making it free for everybody, hoping to wedge Jess Wilson. Now,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I thought to myself, well, the Liberals are never going
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: to fall in for this. Tim, guess what happened? Jess
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Wilson came out at a media conference this morning and said,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I'm very clear on what my stance on abortion is
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: and it's not changing. By lunchtime, it had.
• 41:23
  Speaker 12: Yep.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: This is a bit of a replay of the federal
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: campaign when the Libs went in on, you know, people
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: should be working back in offices instead of at home,
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: and that one flipped over faster than a pancake at
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: an airport delicatessen in the morning. I don't know. I'm
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: struggling a bit for the metaphors here because, honestly, they
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: don't even deserve good.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Metaphors at this point, do they? They sell pancakes at
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the airport? I didn't know that.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: Well, you've got to get right through to the special rooms,
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: you know. You've got to get to your A-list enclosures,
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: let's just say. I've said too much.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Mark, Steve Brax, who I had a bit of time for,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: covered him when I was doing radio in Melbourne. He
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: was a Premier. He was the sort of centre-right Liberal,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: centre-right Labor politician. He was bailed up by Carly Douglas
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: last night and asked about One Nation. He says, quote,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: the One Nation wave, you listening, will fizzle out before
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: the elections. Mark, are you going to prove that wrong?
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Settle down, Braxy.
• 42:26
  Speaker 12: Keep underestimating me, Braxy. Keep underestimating. And to be honest...
• 42:30
  Speaker 12: Braxie was the chairman of CBUS. He was the chairman
• 42:34
  Speaker 12: at Morris Blackburn, KPMG, the chancellor at Vic Uni.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Good jobs.
• 42:39
  Speaker 13: This bloke hasn't seen a regular Fig Dorian in a
• 42:42
  Speaker 13: long time. He hasn't been around regular people for a
• 42:45
  Speaker 13: long time.
• 42:45
  Speaker 12: I have.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: The wave is very real.
• 42:48
  Speaker 12: It's not fizzling. It's not fizzling.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Tim, you're out in the Mallee. Is it fizzling out there,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: as Braxie says it will?
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: Absolutely not. The thing that was amazing about this comment
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: from Steve Brax.
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: One Nation right now are doing very well and for
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: good reasons by hammering the fact that Labor and Liberal
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: are one sort of, you know, blob party and that
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: they're in the pockets of vested interests. So Brax comes
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: out in a conversation with Ted Bailiw, the former Liberal Premier,
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: at a property council event saying that One Nation's gone. Like,
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: he could not have picked a worse venue to do it.
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: This is a former Premier who's as tone-deaf as the
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: present one. And it's going to be fascinating to see
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: how this wave fizzles out. Also, I think he's also
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: predicting a hung parliament. So I'm not sure how his
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: maths works on that. If One Nation's fizzling, it's also
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: obviously going to be significant enough to push things into
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: that sort of area. So yeah, let's see how that
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: all works out for Mr Brax.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: The same Ted Bailey, who was the last Liberal to
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: win an election in Victoria, Labor's won them both sides
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: of him and the other side, and he didn't even
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: last a full term. His own party knocked him off.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Let's talk, Tim, about the Victorian Auditor-General's report. There's no
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: surprises here. Found that the state's plan to replace fire
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: trucks is underfunded and it's putting lives at risk. Where
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: you live, that really matters.
• 44:16
  Speaker 12: Oh, hell yeah.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: My family members have lost houses here to bushfires. You know,
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: my grandfather was a fire chief in a small town
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: in the Wimram Alley. The thing that is so infuriating
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: and galling about running out of funding for firefighting in
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: this area or throughout Victoria, really, is that how much
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: money has been wasted on global warming and climate change nonsense.
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: If you want to fight climate-related things, such as hot
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: weather causing fires, because that happens every summer, you spend
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: it on things like firetrucks. You spend it on reality.
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: You don't fight... bushfires in the Wimmera Mallee area by
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: sending money to islands in the Pacific. You don't fight
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: it by signing up for stupid Paris Accords. You don't
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: fight it away from the fight, which is what we've
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: been doing for the best part of 15, 20 years
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: since climate became our official state religion. When you run
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: an eye over those trucks, how bad a condition are
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: they in? They're just getting a bit old. They're getting
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: a bit ragged around the edges. They do get pretty
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: heavily used, if not during actual fires, during drills. And,
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: you know, moving parts wear out, and that's what they're
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: battling with. They're just a bit ragged around the edges,
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: and you need things to be 100% reliable when you've
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: got life and death sort of matters. It probably wouldn't
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: matter so much if they were a fleet of delivery trucks,
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: but they're vehicles with very specific mechanical requirements and abilities,
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: and they've got to be kept up to scratch.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: You don't want a truck stalling in the middle of
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: a fire and we've lost people when that's happened. Mark,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: I couldn't let you come in tonight without Kamala Harris
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: intervening in what we're talking about. She's been asked again
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: about her plans to run in 2028. Have a look
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: at this.
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: Before I really let you out of here, are you
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: ready for presidency?
• 46:08
  Speaker 12: Oh, girl, come on.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, just to get a.
• 46:13
  Speaker 12: No, you ain't getting... No, no, you're not getting out
• 46:16
  Speaker 12: of here.
• 46:16
  Speaker 13: We have to know this.
• 46:17
  Speaker 12: You know the people want to know.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Are we going to get another moment to see this?
• 46:20
  Speaker 12: I haven't decided.
• 46:21
  Speaker 10: I haven't decided yet.
• 46:22
  Speaker 7: I will.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: I promise you. Please, Mark, go home tonight and pray. Pray.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I am so excited. I cannot be more excited. I'm
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: champing at the bit.
• 46:32
  Speaker 12: I'm so excited. My drunk auntie is coming back. She's
• 46:35
  Speaker 12: running for president. And we are going to get so
• 46:38
  Speaker 12: much content out of this. We're going to have a laugh, boys.
• 46:40
  Speaker 12: It's going to be awesome.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Tim, sadly, she probably can't do it, can she? Surely not.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, a lot of us thought that the first
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: time around and she got, you know, well, didn't get
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: close when the election happened. She became the Democrat nominee.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: I like how people are framing this as she's leaving
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: the door open to running again. Well, she leaves a
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: lot of doors open. They usually have the word bar
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: on them and she's walked right on through. So there
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: she goes. Oh, how nostalgic is that? Got the mask
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: on and all. Yeah, that wouldn't have lasted too long
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: in those bars, would it?
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Well, Donald Trump won't be there, so we need some entertainment,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: don't we, Mark? That's it. You can't just have, you know,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: boring politicians. You need someone with a bit of oomph.
• 47:18
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 47:19
  Speaker 12: And she's the cringiest of them all. It's going to
• 47:22
  Speaker 12: be excellent. Think of some of the quotes we're going
• 47:24
  Speaker 12: to get.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: She was clearly running.
• 47:26
  Speaker 12: She was clearly running. I think she's going to be
• 47:28
  Speaker 12: better than Newsom. We're going to get so many memes
• 47:30
  Speaker 12: out of this. I'm so excited.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Mark, Tim, appreciate your time. Thank you, boys. Thank you, Mark.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: That story about Anne Arleigh that I mentioned to you
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: earlier about this travelling around the world, going to all
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: these joints, spending your taxpayers' money. I mean, we have,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: as I said, diplomats, ambassadors, Trade commissioners in all of
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: these places. Why don't they do that job? Peter Credlin's
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: up next.