Latest / Mama Making Podcast / LIVE RECAP: Maternal Mental Health Demystified: Breaking the Silence, Building the Village

Transcript

LIVE RECAP: Maternal Mental Health Demystified: Breaking the Silence, Building the Village · Mama Making Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Mama Making podcast, where we share stories of moms making impact in their own lives and in the world around them.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jessica, and each week I sit down with women who are building businesses, leading communities, shaping culture, and redefining what success looks like inside of motherhood.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because motherhood does not have to stop your ambition, it can transform it.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's get into it.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone and welcome to the Mama Making Podcast.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host Jessica.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're new, welcome.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not new, then welcome back.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Today I am so excited to be doing a recap of the maternal mental health demystified panel that uh both Liz and Anna hosted a few months back.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Liz Gray is a therapist and founder of Maternal Trauma Support Network.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Anna Rodney is the founder of Chicago Family Doolas and Birth and Baby University.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: They have both been guests on the podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I just wanted to have both of you on to do a recap of the event you guys hosted a few months back, focusing on maternal mental health and kind of do an overview of what you learned, what you talked about, and what's next.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Liz, why don't you start?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like you this was kind of your vision, and I went along with it, but but why don't you start?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we loved, loved having you as uh as a collaborator, but sure, I can give a little overview.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: So this was actually our second annual uh May maternal mental health panel.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: My business partner, Olivia Verholst, and I started it uh a year ago in May and actually had a different organization who we partnered with.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we I think we just wanted more voices to get together because so much of the perenatal experience often happens in isolation.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And especially when it comes to mental health diagnoses or challenges, it can when we don't talk about these things, it breeds shame and silence and guilt and trauma and all the things that just don't feel very good, as you know.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And especially for someone who's already struggling to then feel like I need to keep it to myself, or to be worried, okay, if I share these symptoms with anyone, including my therapist, what could happen?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: We really just wanted to open up the conversation and say that you're not alone for anyone who's experiencing this.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: There is help, there is support, and let's talk about it so that we can take away some of the shame and stigma.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we started it last year.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: We had an amazing experience, lots of panelists who brought a combination of lived and professional experience.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then we wanted to do it again.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we're really excited to connect with Anna and Chicago Family Doolas and really expand our reach and also our perspective a little bit because Olivia and I are coming in as therapists, and uh Anna and her team brought in the doula perspective.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we all have the same vision, we all have a very similar vision of trauma-informed, supportive, holistic care for women and birthing people and their families.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we were coming at it from a little bit of a different direction, and we thought, well, we can't just do this ourselves, just like giving birth.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just do it yourself.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: We need to have support and lots of layers of support.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we thought about this panel, too, is we wanted another organization to collaborate with.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And also we need panelists.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just gonna be me and Olivia having a conversation.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: We could do that all the time.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: She's one of my best friends.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I love our conversations, but that wasn't gonna get us what we wanted to do.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: We needed other voices, we needed other um other providers, another parents, another uh incredible panelists we ended up having to be able to talk about the really hard things.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love the idea of bringing in Anna and her her company into it because I think that um, like obviously you and Olivia are coming from a therapeutic side of things, but I think coming from a like boots on the ground in people's homes during pregnancy and postpartum is a whole different layer of things.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did that kind of um influence who your panelists were gonna be and in the like format of how you were gonna chat about things?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the timing was really interesting because we actually had, we were gonna potentially be partnering with that organization that we partnered with last year.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we'd already kind of started, we had a date chosen and the time, and we'd already put out an application.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we had probably at least 20 people who had already applied by the time Anna and I connected, and we actually met at an in-person event kind of accidentally.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really funny is that Anna is already on our trauma and for maternal health directory.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: We've connected and talked on the phone maybe a year earlier.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't realize, I didn't realize that it was you hosting this Doctors and Doulos event in Chicago until I met you.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, wait a minute, this is so wild.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just it it kind of felt like, okay, this is all, this is this is we need to do meant to be.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was meant to be it's like Chicago's such a big city, but this space is there's so much overlap and so much intertwined.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I always I feel like we run into the same people over and over again.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, it especially when we're thinking about like high-quality resources for families.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: So on the note about the panel, like bringing together different pieces of a family's journey is so critical.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's so much of a need, and there's so many people that can help in different ways, and everything is intertwined.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I often think even when somebody is struggling with nursing and breastfeeding their baby, that is a huge mental load, and that can cause a spiral of so many other things.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: So having a very competent lactation consultant that is well aware of this mental and emotional experience that this mom is feeling is critical.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a big piece of it, it's not just actionable steps, it's like a whole person and a whole family unit that somebody's helping, whether that's you know, the doula, the lactation consultant, the pelvic floor physical therapist.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: If somebody's having health issues or issues connecting with their baby or feeding their baby or getting rest, it all sits in the same um space of supports and mental health and overall well-being of someone.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, the panel is so important because people can touch on different aspects of that.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: And we are boots on the ground as doulas, we're in families' homes.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And personally, I love this piece of training the doulas so that they are more capable and competent.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's probably one of the pieces that do lists still feel really anxious about because there's stigma around mental health, unfortunately, still, like if a doula sees something they're and they're worried about a family in for mental health sorts of reasons, they're afraid to approach it.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: They still are anxious to approach it, even though they're in the home.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we often have our doulas reaching out to the admin saying, I think this family, you know, I think this mom is struggling with postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: What should I do?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: What can I say to her that doesn't make her feel ashamed that I noticed?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like so I love teaching like how how, but also connecting like these doolas with resources so that they feel confident, and then families with resources so they feel supported.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're totally right.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's this whole ecosystem that is mom and baby, but it's also spouse or support person or family member.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to help, I think, and don't necessarily know how to do it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of what I loved about the panel that you guys put together was that you you talked more about um ways to support, but what are some of the barriers that you see on both sides, whether it's the therapeutic side or the um in-home do list support that you see coming um that are barriers to getting the support that they need?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um well, for one, like financial resources, not knowing um what supports are included with their this insurance that they have and those sorts of things.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're in a little bit better of a space than we were a few years ago in terms of like therapists being completely booked.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: But that was a huge one a few years ago.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: There were not enough therapists to support families, or at least that's how families felt, and that's what we were seeing.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, you know, nationwide, but I definitely saw that.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um a huge one is normalizing things that are actually harmful.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like somebody feeling so overwhelmed, exhausted, anxious, and we know it's more than the baby blues, and we know it's more than just lack of sleep and everyone around them brushing it off because it's like, yeah, this time is hard.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is an adjustment period, those are normal feelings.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just because something's common doesn't make it like normal, like that there's no supports for it or a better way to exist.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's common.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like pure exhaustion and super, you know, feeling very overwhelmed is common, but are there still supports for it?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, can somebody exist in a more thriving capacity?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: So those are some that I see.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'm glad that you mentioned that, and I think that came up during the panel too.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think another barrier is uh so Anna, what you were mentioning before with the doulas that maybe may have an awareness and see something going on, but not sure what to do about it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's this overall lack of training, especially, and I know Katie Prezes, who was the IBCLC representative, in her application.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was just blown away by the statistics that she shared and her perspective that pediatricians and doctors received such little education and time spent on lactation, for example.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yet I can speak from my own experience that my son saw nine pediatricians between the four days that we were in the hospital as I was recovering from my C-section, three doctors at uh the first practice we went to that re-traumatized me completely, and then two at the new practice, and not a single pediatrician even mentioned the possibility of a tongue or a lip tie.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was our chiropractor and IBCLC who both said, oh, he has some red flags.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it turns out that was our issue.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that he was failure to thrive, or that he um that something else was going on.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I I mentioned that, and I think I shared that during the panel too, is not only were the the judgments and some threats from physicians absolutely terrifying to a new parent, to new parents.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: My husband and I are still traumatized by everything that happened after my son's birth, during and after.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: But also the fact that with a little bit more it's education, but it's also this trauma-informed lens that you know, the doctors, I can't tell you how many times I filled out the surveys, the postpartum surveys, the um, the depression scales and anxiety scales.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was scoring really, really high, yet no one looked at it or talked to me about it except for my uh psychiatric prescriber and my therapist.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: But when it came to any kind of physician, sure, maybe they had me fill it out, but it doesn't do any good if they're not looking at it or talking to you about it or asking you about it or giving resources.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that there's a gap.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's a there's many gaps, but a few of them that I see are one is just the the lack of understanding of how, you know, breastfeeding, for example, it's a learned skill.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that everyone is able to just do naturally.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: It can be really challenging.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that already, as an example, is we need more, you know, understanding and support for women and birthing people who are just experiencing all of the different parts of new parenthood.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And also we need to help providers know what next when you notice that something is off, or when you see in the report in the screening that the scores are high.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now what?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many pieces to this that are lacking.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, a lot of doctors, a lot of pediatricians don't even recognize, well, pediatricians aren't recognizing any of these sorts of things.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's not their specialty.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then even resources for families who come in and say, I'm so exhausted, I'm so this, like they're not sharing those resources of like, well, you know, do you have uh a doula benefit through your um, through your job, through your employer?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have postpartum?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Can you afford postpartum support?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Can you have some overnight support?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Can you do some switch outs with overnights with a partner or a family member?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what can you do?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not sure the troubleshooting is happening in any of these spaces.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: And unfortunately, like spaces or or fortunately in spaces like a chiropractor or an acupuncturist who's like spending the time, like they're with you for 30 minutes and they're having a conversation with you, they're the ones often sharing resources because they have the time for it.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's not this like super rigid schedule.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we hear that like about public floor physical therapists all the time, or lactation consultants.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: They're spending an hour with a family.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's such a benefit in itself.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like to have a conversation with a professional for an hour or a half hour is very there's a uh yeah, there is such a value to that that I think is often not even thought about when somebody's booking uh an appointment.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the supports that are available to to new moms and new families or postpartum families that um you think are most beneficial that they might not even know about?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I totally agree that there's this like educational gap on on many different ends.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the the some of the physicians that are our women see don't get the full resource guide that they might need um that will help them make decisions about like, okay, who do I need for support?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those of us who are kind of like ingrained in this stuff, we we have a laundry list of people who we would call.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: But for those who are like, I'm pregnant, I'm having a baby, and that's kind of their their uh their deep dive into the the world of uh maternal health.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the support systems or support professionals that you think um people might not know about or that they could utilize that would could be like completely beneficial to their postpartum experience?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you asked this question.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, I started a blog post a long time ago that was like seven or eight different types of providers that you need during the perennial period, and then it was like 10 different types, 13 different types, like it kept expanding.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I'm not finished with it because I keep adding to it.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: These are good people.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kidding.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know it probably will get up there.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I maybe I'll cap it at like 15 max, which is still a lot, I know.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think so.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say this out loud before I forget.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: One is the specific types of providers that maybe we can go over a little bit together.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other piece of it is more the big picture organizations that people can search for and the types of support.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Does that feel okay?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I can start with therapists because I'm coming from that angle.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: There are individual therapists, and also you can go for couples therapy, group therapy.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of really great providers out there.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say for anyone looking for a therapist, definitely um searching the PSI directory, Postpartum Support International.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: They are an incredible organization that trains parinatal providers.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then um through, I'm actually in the about to take the test, um, but if you look for the letters behind a therapist name.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, my business partner, Olivia, is Olivia Verholst, LMHC, that's License Mental Health Counselor, and then PMHC, which is parinatal mental health uh clinician or certified, I'm sorry, parinatal mental health certified.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so if you see someone at the PMHC, that means that they've done a lot of training, they've taken and passed a test, they specialize in working with the perinatal population.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's also psychiatric providers, so psychiatrists, psychiatric nurse practitioners who will um they can also get a designated PMHC and also some affiliate types of um providers as well.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely that's a great place to start if someone says that they work with this population and you see PMHC already, you can have an idea that they are very well uh trained.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And also it doesn't necessarily mean they're the right fit for you, but at least it's like a starting place.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say that um that's kind of the therapist realm.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I don't know if you want to take it from here and we can I think we've mentioned some of them, like a pelvic floor physical therapist, a lactation consultant.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, anyone who plans on nursing or anyone who is going to be feeding their baby, which is everyone, should connect with a lactation consultant.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a huge misconception about lactation consultants only support people who are nursing.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they're just feeding experts.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: And like Liz said, pediatricians are not feeding experts.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: They are not, they don't understand a lot of aspects that a lactation consultant does.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I always just think of like going to the best, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're going to, if you're talking with your OBGYN about your pelvic floor, they have a little bit of knowledge, but like go to the expert in that space.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: So whatever that, whatever you're experiencing, just go to the best, go to the expert.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, chiropractors, acupuncturists, doulas, postpartum doulas, birth doulas, um, take childbirth classes, like there's so many amazing resources out there.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, occupational therapists.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, and I agree.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: There's like organizations as well.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: And um, Liz mentioned some, but like, um yeah, like learning about um like yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Just learning from organizations that specialize in it and then finding the absolute best resources in your community will be so helpful.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: And don't wait until after baby arrives to start that process.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think people think, I'm so busy, I'm so busy when they're expecting their first baby.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you are, but you will be so much busier after baby arrives.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And the mental capacity that you may have in pregnancy may feel diminished from your normal, but I promise you it is better than postpartum mental capacity.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: So just do it now if you're expecting.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not too late.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you need resources for your public floor in your three months postpartum, get the resources three months postpartum.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's better late than never.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so big on telling people, like my friends and family are tired of hearing it when they're pregnant.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm like, make a list of the providers, even if you don't think that you would need them, like get a list down, find out who's in your insurance.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: If if you're not going with insurance, find out who is the most reasonably priced for you, just so that when you do need that resource, it's there.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't need it, fine.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think for me, when I recommend people, I always say, uh uh, have a therapist that you have at least met with once to be like, hey, I want to get in with you.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm planning for a postpartum.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to establish a relationship.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: That would be ideal.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: If if you're doing it on the back end, that's fine too.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: But also another like praise for doula's is that doula's are so connected to the rest of the birth world.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a doula that you trust or a doula agency like Anna's agency, being able to have kind of like a hub of resources, um, whether it's with your therapist or with your doula, that can be a huge barrier as well.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Gareth like gathering all the information.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you have trusted people that know about this area, like definitely utilize them in that way.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, also, I'll put in a plug for the directory that I co-created.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the trauma-informed maternal health directory.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's the goal is to connect people to safe, attuned, trauma-informed providers.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we are a growing directory.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've been here about two years, and our goal, our hope is to expand in every state in the United States and to have all different types, types of providers.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want all just the same people.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want just therapists and just doas, even though we love therapists and doulas.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: But we want someone to come to this directory searching for free, to be able to say, here are the things that I'm looking for.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to conceive or going through infertility, or I've experienced a loss and I don't know what to do, or I'm pregnant, or I'm postpartum, or I've entered the, you know, toddler years.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in we're at two years old right now, and that's a very challenging time.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So uh fun, but very challenging.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's like this whole spectrum of different types of providers, different locations, different specializations that we really wanted to be this hub of where someone can search and find their entire support team.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what makes the directory a bit different than other directories that are out there is first of all, it's very focused on this population.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not having just generalist providers.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is uh health and mental health professionals who specialize in reproductive health, infant mental health, uh, women's health.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we do verify licenses.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a couple of professions like doas or IBCLCs, for example, where we may not be able to there, there may not be a graduate degree, for example, or a license, but we can look at the certification and to see to make sure that they were, they were trained and have some background in trauma-informed care.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then we ask everyone to write on their profile how they're a trauma-informed provider, because we want someone going to this, looking at, you know, seeing, seeing a picture of the person they might be working with, seeing their bio, a little bit of background information.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then we want you, as a viewer of this, to like to feel represented, to read this and to say, oh my gosh, you're talking to me.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to worry about educating them about this thing I'm going through or this thing.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like they already know we're already speaking the same language.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there's this level of trust that is inherently there when already you're speaking that same language.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to take away some of the work, some of the burden that so many of us carry to find that team.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And no, I can't promise that everyone you find is going to be the right fit for you, but I can tell you that hopefully it'll make it just a little bit easier and a little less stressful.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And Anna, you guys are doing so much training and uh education in the doula world.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us what's going on for Chicago Family Doolas and Birth and Baby University in this realm of things.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, everyone knows me, knows that my background is education, and I'm like a huge proponent of helping connect everyone with good educational resources.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: So um, I have my master's in education and was a special ed teacher.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I knew from the very beginning when I became a doula about 15 years ago that integrating high-quality childbirth classes that weren't just for natural birth and unmedicated birth was going to be so important.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just like people need real information without feeling defeated as they're watching something that they're like, this doesn't relate to me, or as they're hearing from someone.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, so yeah, so I created a platform.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: I actually just I've had an app for a few years, but I just um created my own app and not a white label app for Birth and Baby University.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I offer doula trainings, so I'm able to, I feel like really get to the source and teach doulas about all of these sorts of topics about connect, staying in our lane and connecting people with high-quality resources, communication, listening, like all of these super important qualities.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I created all of my doula trainings virtually, so they're all online, super accessible.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've worked with Blue Cross and Blue Shield in the past um couple of years and have been a recipient of their special beginnings grant so that I could train doulas and offer childbirth classes to families.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say childbirth classes, I mean like childbirth classes, baby classes, breastfeeding, um, V back class, like it very comprehensive sorts of classes.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, I just started a not-for-profit called Project Bold, where um we just received a grant then from Cross and Blue Shield to continue what I've been doing, which is pretty exciting.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, making learning accessible and connecting families with high-quality resources.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like if people don't know what they should be, what's available or what they should be asking for or can ask for, or what's possible, they don't, they they will end up much more likely to be traumatized with birth, with postpartum.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: If they have not only like have an advocate with them, like a doula, but if they actually know what they can advocate for and what questions to ask, and who to ask those questions to and how to ask those questions, they will be in such a better position.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: They're not living in this white coat syndrome space of like, oh, okay, so I have to do that, so I have to do that.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like my classes, we teach all of those sorts of things.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I teach families how to ask questions in a bold, this is what I want to happen.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: I believe this is a pathway to get there.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Can you tell me how you'll support my pathway?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: That is, I empower families through my education.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then I do the same with doulas.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: I teach them what families can ask for, how to help them ask those questions, and then how to amplify their voice.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like we education is just kind of where that starts.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, I have I see that living out through the doulas that I've been able to train.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, lots of really um, I'm I mean, I guess big, but also slow, slow, slow changes family by family.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else that you would like to um like wrap up about this panel um that was impactful or that you want people to know about um maternal mental health or um supports for them?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I felt like being on a panel, um, being on this panel, like not only was I able to connect with the other panelists in the audience, um, but I learned so much also.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like hearing stories and like real stories from people, that I think that's the most um rewarding part of my job as the agency owner is like listening to people's stories and seeing how somebody impacted them in a positive way or what they wish they would have had and then they had for the second time around.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: So kind of going off on a tangent here, but but panels like this can really impact people's experiences, but also reframe the experiences they had to take this blame off of them that I think a lot of people feel.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: I should have known this, I should have known this.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then you see this really intelligent person like Liz share that, you know, I had the same experience.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, how can you have had that experience?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're smart, you know about this, and it's like it's not my fault, you know.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think there's so much power in that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I talk about it all the time.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I had my first baby, and like what I thought was, you know, I could ask for and couldn't, like, I'm like, I didn't know any of this.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we all start where we start and we learn as we go.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think when you have a panel where you see all these incredible humans talking about their experiences, you realize, oh wow, it maybe it's not my fault.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it wasn't because I was young or because I was, you know, naive or this or this.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like this just happens, unfortunately.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And and without talking about it, it's going to just continue to happen more and more.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I think especially in the world that we're living in right now, there's a lot of division amongst us.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this panel was an opportunity to show that we are more similar than we are different.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: And even though all of us on the panel and all and the moderators were again coming from different perspectives and experiences, we all had this very common, similar goal, which was to basically empower families to advocate for themselves and to say you're not alone in this, and that it's not a weakness to ask for help or to share what's going on.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it is a strength to be able to say, you know, I might be an expert in this and this and this, but I am not an expert in any of these other things that have to do with having a baby, especially if you've never done it before.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we, it was just really cool to bring a lot of voices together.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And on a personal level, I didn't know everyone on the panel, but for example, Dr.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Gelani was my reproductive endocrinologist who helped me get my son.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Kaylee Summers, who was our panelist, or I'm sorry, she was our keynote speaker of the Birth Trauma Mama.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Even though for the panel it was our first time meeting, I had been following her and her work since I was healing from my own birth trauma a couple of years ago.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it was so special and full circle to be able to have her come to this panel and for me to see this experience, this beautiful kind of um integration of lived experience and also professional, as that's something that my identity is shifting as a therapist, now working with parental population and being a mom who is a therapist, whereas before I was it.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was really, and I feel like I'm I'm forgetting.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: So every everyone was incredible on the panel, but they're just a couple that that really stood out because it was so neat to just to have some people who helped in my own personal journey.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it, I mean, we hope to do this again.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: We were already, Anna and I were already talking about uh next year what that will look like.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell people where they can find you guys on websites, social media, and then if you guys have anything exciting coming up, events or programs or whatever you are launching this year, go ahead and plug away.
• 37:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, everyone could find me at Chicago Family Doula's or Birth and Baby University.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we have socials that are super active and um hopefully very relatable.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: We also do about every quarter, we do either a Meet the Doula type event or a Doctors and doula event.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um we so look for those under our events on our Chicago Family Doula page.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: Wherever you are, if you're pregnant with your first, your second, your newly postpartum, you want to connect with really awesome people.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're not newly postpartum, maybe you had a hard experience with your first, and you're even scared to start thinking about the process of going through this again.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: So come out and talk to do as we're all really nice, kind, thoughtful people that would love to listen to your story and share resources with you.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, the events are absolutely like educational, but also celebratory.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like we have um a photo booth and mocktails and treats and raffles.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: So those are always a great way to like actually meet doulas in person.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: And usually, you know, like 10 or so doulas from our team will be there.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: And when we do our doctor and doula events, we do those at different doctors' offices.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: So you get to meet a team of OBGYNs and pediatricians.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome maternal trauma support on Instagram and then www.maternaltrauma support.com.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we made it really easy, just all one word.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we not only do we have this directory that's free to search for anyone who needs support, we have a uh a community for providers.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So anyone who is a parental provider and is trauma informed and lives in the US, we would love to have you on the directory.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a low cost each month, and you are part of not only do you get a directory profile, but we have members-only meetups uh virtually and some group chats so that people can talk about what's happening in their own lives as a provider because it can be really isolating work so you can feel supported in that, and then also get access to all of our current and then previous uh library of our Sunday series um events, which typically monthly, we have a member of our community do a workshop or a training, and it's open to anyone in the community.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a we have a bunch coming up, so definitely check out our website for more information.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And some are more aimed towards providers, some are for anyone who's interested in a certain topic, and a lot of them are more are interactive.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want, you can participate, or you turn your camera off and you stay back and you just listen, or you can go to the recording.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we're excited.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: We'd like to also bring education, community support, all of that to the work that we do.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you guys so much for being on and sharing about the panel.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to see what comes up next for the next panel, and we'll talk to you soon.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much, Jessica.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation resonated with you, I'd love for you to follow the podcast wherever you listen and share it with another mom building something meaningful.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you want deeper behind the scenes reflections that I don't share anywhere else, join my email list at the Mama Making Podcast.com.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here, and I'll see you next time.