Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 121 - Terry Rosen: CEO & Co-Founder of Arcus Biosciences

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Episode 121 - Terry Rosen: CEO & Co-Founder of Arcus Biosciences · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
So welcome back to the episode of the Bio Hub.
0:08
Today we're delighted to welcome on Terry Rosen, who's the Co
0:11
founder and CEO of Arcus Biosciences.
0:14
Arcus is a rapidly growing clinical stage global
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biopharmaceutical company developing differentiated
0:20
molecules and combative medicines that may have the
0:22
potential to help people with cancer live longer.
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So join us today as we'll discuss Terry's journey through
0:29
the field. The next major milestones he's
0:32
excited about were Arcus and the biggest challenges and
0:35
opportunities for biotechs in today's public markets.
0:38
So Terry, look, it's a pleasure to have you on.
0:40
How are you? Great.
0:42
And thanks, Tom. I appreciate the opportunity to
0:45
do this. I think it'll be a lot of fun.
0:46
Yeah, for sure. So let's just start with your
0:49
story. So can you walk us through your
0:51
journey through the field and with any particular mentors that
0:54
help shape your your journey? Sure.
0:57
So that journey I've been working over 40 years plus my
1:02
academic experience. So I'm going to share that talk
1:05
a little bit about mentors, as you suggest.
1:08
And it's, it's been, you know, a long journey and I hope
1:11
hopefully still more to come. So I, I'll mention even high
1:16
school, I went to Chicago Public school.
1:19
And the reason I mentioned that is because that was really a
1:23
first and very important mentor. My high school teacher was a
1:27
fellow named Preston Hayes, and my parents hadn't gone to
1:32
college. This was really, you know, high
1:34
school didn't even have a college counselor.
1:37
So this was the first person that really got me interested in
1:41
science and chemistry. And he really did unique things.
1:47
First of all, he did something that you probably couldn't even
1:50
do nowadays. She'd give us unfettered access
1:52
to the lab so we could go in after school unsupervised, just
1:57
so there's a lot of hands on, you know, call it fun chemistry
2:02
in the laboratory. Second thing is he really
2:05
emphasized rigor, observations and asking questions.
2:10
Now I'll give you an example that sticks with me today.
2:13
One of the first experiments he did with us before really even
2:16
getting into to chemistry itself is he just was having us, you
2:21
know, take water, heat it up, heat it to boiling and note all
2:26
your observations along the way. And he told us, you know, first
2:30
heated to 60°, then heated 70°, then he hit 100°C, then heated
2:35
to 115°C. And so, you know, you got this
2:38
whole class and at the time we're still using Bunsen burners
2:41
to got beaker of water. And it's going, it's going now
2:44
all of a sudden you get to 100° and everyone he's, you know, now
2:48
you're supposed to heat it to 115°.
2:50
And of course, as you know, you can't keep water above its
2:53
boiling point. So everyone's Mr. Hayes, you
2:55
know, I can't get it above 100°. But he's like, well, take two
2:59
Bunsen burners then. So you got the whole class is
3:02
doing this. And he was really just making
3:04
the point. No fake.
3:06
Don't just, you know, follow directions.
3:10
Make sure you're thinking. And that really sort of launched
3:13
me and it it, it became a way to think about things.
3:17
I went from Chicago high school to University of Michigan
3:20
undergraduate. That was important because I met
3:25
who's now my Co founder, Juan Haiyan.
3:29
He was starting Graduate School as I was finishing up my
3:33
undergraduate work. We I was doing undergraduate
3:36
research. We we shared a lab and you know,
3:38
he's still this, this is 1979 or so.
3:43
And you know, we're back together and we work at at at
3:46
Argos and we kind of work together a long way, which I'll,
3:50
I'll share. So I went from University of
3:53
Michigan to Berkeley, and Berkeley was probably the most
3:57
Seminole transformation. Again, I had a great, great
4:03
professor as an advisor, Clayton Hathcock.
4:06
I was working in synthetic or organic chemistry and what I'd
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say Clayton, first of all, he had incredible passion and he
4:14
cared about the students, great teacher, great scientist.
4:18
But what he instilled in us was more of like what I was talking
4:22
about there, of really paying attention to details of focusing
4:27
on quality versus quantity. So when synthetic organic
4:31
chemistry was always sort of a race to make a complex molecule,
4:35
but he cared more about making it well than making it fast.
4:40
And one of the things that he emphasized was when something
4:45
didn't work, there's so much empiricism and observation and
4:49
iteration in science. His point was don't just throw
4:53
that down the drain. The experiments that didn't work
4:57
were generally the most telling and learn from why something
5:01
didn't work to improve upon. And that again was something
5:04
that always stuck with me and in in the rigor and the, the whole
5:09
department at Berkeley at the time was just fun and very
5:13
science focused and that was great.
5:15
So I went from Berkeley to Abbott and this is, you know,
5:19
about 1985 working on age when it first emerged.
5:24
I could just give you a sense of the timing.
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I was at Abbott for a couple years and then went to Pfizer.
5:29
So I went to Pfizer when it was a relatively small company.
5:32
And to give you a sense when that was, I was one of the first
5:35
three people at Pfizer that had e-mail.
5:38
And I can remember like a computational chemist came
5:41
walking down the hall. Hey, Terry, we're experimenting
5:43
with this new technology. We don't really know where it's
5:46
going to go. It's got security issue now.
5:48
What's that? So, oh, e-mail.
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And I couldn't even comprehend what you're supposed to do with
5:53
it. So just kind of that time frame,
5:56
I, I worked in psychotherapeutics.
5:58
I was surrounded by great scientist, the guy who
6:02
discovered Zoloft, this had nothing to do with me.
6:04
He reported me. The guy who discovered the
6:06
presidone reported me. The guy who discovered Zithromax
6:09
reported me. So you're just surrounded sort
6:12
of in this glory days of the Pharmaceutical industry by, you
6:16
know, these scientists, these chemists who basically retired
6:20
at the bench, They're all focused on drug discovery.
6:23
So it was a very exciting time in the industry.
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I went from Pfizer to then biotech.
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So I came back to the Bay Area to a startup called Talaric with
6:33
really 3 phenomenal biology scientists as founders.
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And this was where you kind of had this transition from an
6:41
industry driven by chemistry and industry driven biology.
6:45
And I could see that coming. So the three founders of Talaric
6:49
were Bob Teejan, who at one point was the head of Howard
6:52
Hughes Medical Institute, Steve McKnight.
6:54
And then probably in my mind, the most iconic figure in
6:59
biotech history and probably always will be, was Dave
7:02
Goodell, the first scientist at Genentech.
7:04
And I think it's gone long enough where young people may
7:08
not even recognize their name, but he was a household name.
7:12
So many of the early products out of Genentech came out of his
7:15
lab. He was the guy who cloned
7:17
insulin. And it was awesome experience
7:20
going to this startup called Teler.
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It was there for you know till 2004 we were acquired by Amgen.
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I stayed at Amgen for another decade or so and Amgen was
7:33
running their large and small molecule drug discovery was
7:36
group called therapeutic discovery.
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And then in 2013, January of 2013, I left the Amgen started
7:43
company, got back together with Juan.
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He had also been I'd recruited him to Telerik.
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Along the way he we found this company called Flexis.
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Flexis was intended to be long term company and surprisingly
7:58
you know, we were acquired in about 18 months by BMS for one
8:03
and a quarter billion dollars. And literally this is now in mid
8:09
2015 we started Arcus weeks after they have Flexis
8:13
acquisition and it's been 10 years at Arcus since.
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So, so that's a little bit along, but it's, it's, that's
8:22
covering, you know, roughly 40 plus years and that gets us to
8:27
where we are today at Arcus. Wow, sounds like some journey so
8:31
far and and just to delve into Arcus a little bit more.
8:33
So as you mentioned you Co founded the company in 2015.
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Can you walk us through what motivated you to take the leap
8:40
and start a company focused within immune oncology
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therapies, and how did your previous experience influence
8:47
the way that you structured Arcus from the start, both from
8:50
a scientific and operational perspective?
8:53
No, that's awesome because the experience we had had had a huge
9:00
effect both strategically and operationally.
9:03
And even why, you know why start a company.
9:07
So keep in mind, I've been working some time before, it
9:12
wasn't like it just come out of an undergraduate or graduate
9:15
program in the Alka. We're going to found a company
9:17
had had pretty substantial experience.
9:20
And you remember how I mentioned the, you know, those glory days
9:24
of the Pharmaceutical industry. I think there'd been a dramatic
9:28
change there in a very continuous way culturally in
9:34
companies over that, over that time period.
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And and what I mean by that back in those days, there was so much
9:42
focus on the drug discovery itself, on content expertise, on
9:48
sort of long term approaches to programs to much shorter cycle
9:54
time. Felt a lot of what was going on
9:57
in biotech at that time. There was no bio, there was no
10:01
tech. It was really moving more
10:03
towards an asset, taking that asset to inflection, trying to
10:08
sell it. And there'd also been a shift
10:10
away from an expertise in small molecule drug discovery.
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People move to large molecules and it really reflected an
10:20
opportunity now in thinking about immuno oncology.
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There'd been dramatic advances in the biology there.
10:30
So the understanding of immunology had really gotten to
10:35
a point where this biology could now be translated into drug
10:40
discovery. So with all of these other
10:42
changes, we felt there was a great opportunity with lot of
10:46
target validation, a lot of understanding of biology for
10:51
small molecule expertise to build a a company around that.
10:55
And that was really the idea as originally with Flexus, but then
11:02
with Arcus and we we built the company from day one, starting
11:06
with a blank piece of paper to, to do long term drug discovery.
11:12
And at this point now we're, you know, we're pretty far along
11:15
have multiple compounds in the clinic, compounds in phase
11:19
three. And maybe that's something we'll
11:21
talk a little bit more about. Exciting.
11:23
And just to delve in to the pipeline a little bit further.
11:26
So you guys have a unique focus on combination immunotherapies
11:30
targeting pathways like HIF 2A and adenosine.
11:35
Can you explain and just a bit in a bit more detail how these
11:38
approaches work and what makes Arcus's pipelines down stand out
11:41
from I guess, some of the other companies that are in that
11:44
subspace as well? Sure.
11:45
So the first thing that I'll start high level and I'll get a
11:48
little bit more granular. In a high level we built a
11:53
discovery organization. So what you know one of the
11:57
biggest changes that I talked about it the when I was talking
12:01
about forming the company is that if you go back to those
12:05
early days, so many companies were R&D centric.
12:08
If you look at Merck when Vagelos was the COR and D
12:13
centric and that focus it shifted much more to commercial
12:17
late stage financial perhaps being strong development
12:21
organization, but less on discovery.
12:23
So we were all about building a discovery organization that
12:28
could build a sustainable pipeline.
12:31
So also as I was discussing a lot of companies sort of focused
12:35
on single assets, I was reading something recently about a
12:40
company and I saw, you know, this crazy term where they were
12:44
talking about their expertise and they had, you know, great
12:47
asset hunt hunters. And to me, that almost seems
12:50
like a junk hunter, someone who goes around on, you know,
12:53
garbage day and fines and couch and once in a while maybe
12:55
there's something really good and valuable there, but there's
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not sort of an ability to create something from scratch.
13:02
So at Arcus, we built that small molecule expertise to, you know,
13:07
be able to have a pipeline. And I think that's one of the
13:10
things that if you look in 2026 at early stage companies that's
13:16
very differentiating that we have, you know, our most
13:21
probably valuable program is a, it's, it's around a molecule
13:24
called Castatifen. You mentioned HIF 2 is that it's
13:28
HIF 2 that's an important target in cancer therapy.
13:35
I'll tell you a couple reasons why that's so valuable for
13:38
Arcus. So first of all, it's highly
13:40
validated. There's another drug that
13:43
targets that and it's a, it's a drug that that Merck has, we
13:49
have a molecule that's been in, you know, maybe 200 patients.
13:54
It's clearly better than the Merc molecule.
13:58
Now what's unique in this situation is that because I was
14:03
talking about that small molecule expertise, we tend to
14:06
play in targets where there's strong validation, but they're
14:11
very difficult to approach with small molecule.
14:13
And so really the only two players in this field are US and
14:19
Merck. So we have a molecule they
14:23
validated with a, a molecule that's now selling, but it's
14:27
only selling in certain stages. And it it's the tip of the
14:31
iceberg in terms of where that's going to end up being used both
14:35
in terms of patients and from a commercial standpoint.
14:38
So now we're at a point where that molecule is in phase three.
14:43
It's in registrational studies, it's enrolling well.
14:47
So it's great opportunity. But at the same time, we have
14:51
multiple other programs. So we're in a position where we
14:56
have this advanced program. But because so much of our
15:00
biology was also focused on immunology, immuno oncology is
15:05
driven by immunology. Even though the therapeutic
15:08
endpoint is oncology, we have a pipeline of early stage programs
15:13
that maybe I'll say a little bit more about them, but where we
15:17
have programs that they've been highly validated by a biological
15:22
molecule. These are these are things like
15:25
the anti TNFS where you're talking about 10s of billion
15:29
dollar market where they work, but they might have limitations
15:33
and those limitations can be addressed by small molecules.
15:37
So you go in, it plays to our sweet spot where there's been
15:41
great validation, validation clinically, validation
15:45
biologically, invalidation commercially, but there's
15:48
opportunity for improvement where that small molecule
15:51
expertise can come into play. So we have a whole pipeline
15:54
ranging from early programs to these later stage programs.
15:58
And maybe we'll talk a little bit more about this as well.
16:01
We're well capitalized. So at this point, we sit here
16:05
with over a billion dollars in cash and that enables us for
16:10
example with that program cast data fan, it can take us all the
16:14
way through its initial phase three study and get us through
16:18
registration with the cash we currently have.
16:21
Yeah, wow. It sounds exciting.
16:22
And just on the sort of cash position, you guys have
16:25
obviously attracted significant investor interest.
16:29
From your perspective, what makes Arcus A compelling
16:31
investment opportunity today And how do you balance like the long
16:35
timelines and risks of drug development with the
16:38
expectations of public markets and investors?
16:42
I think that's, that's been, you know, something that's somewhat
16:46
tricky to navigate, but we had an early strategy to leverage
16:51
partnerships to fund us in the early days where, you know, you,
16:59
you kind of had that glint in your eye.
17:00
And and as you kind of imply, investors in the current era
17:06
tend to have a maybe a shorter term focus then there might have
17:10
been in, you know, way back. And you, you, you kind of at the
17:15
early stage of companies have to generate a lot of progress, a
17:19
lot of data early on. So we came up with a strategy
17:23
and we were fortunate enough to be able to execute on it.
17:27
They have multiple collaborations that funded the
17:31
early days. But now we've gotten to position
17:35
where we actually can show the value in intrinsic that by by to
17:41
me what's the best way to show value which is through data.
17:45
So we have these late stage programs.
17:48
We have cast data fan which is in register of those studies.
17:52
We have another molecule you mentioned adenosine.
17:55
We have a molecule that blocks the rate limiting enzyme in
17:59
adenosine production. That's an immuno oncology
18:02
approach that fully enrolled phase three study in pancreatic
18:07
cancer that's going to read out shortly.
18:09
So we have these late stage programs that we've managed the
18:12
fund. Interesting thing about cast
18:14
data fan that's such a high value generating situation for
18:20
investors is that Arcus fully owns that program.
18:25
So you're talking about something that's good for
18:27
patients and our differentiation from Merck takes us into
18:31
something that's, you know, you're talking what'll, what
18:34
will be like a $10 billion market.
18:37
And we have this program that essentially because of their
18:41
validation has almost 100% probability of technical
18:46
success. So you can see that on the
18:48
horizon for registration in the in the foreseeable future.
18:52
But then we have a full pipeline coming along behind it as well.
18:58
So we're we've managed to navigate those early years
19:03
through the strategy of a lot of literally I'm talking like
19:08
billion plus dollars of funding that came in through
19:11
collaborations. A lot of that non dilutive to
19:15
now we're point where people can smell that OK Arcus is in
19:19
position to become a commercial company.
19:23
Wow, that's, that's exciting. And looking ahead, what are the
19:25
key milestones for Arcus in the next sort of year to to two
19:29
years that the scientific and investment communities should
19:31
really be paying attention to? And then are there any specific
19:35
clinical trials, data readouts, partnership opportunities that
19:39
you guys are particularly excited about as well?
19:42
Yeah. So we're we're going to have a
19:45
lot of data, a lot of milestones and that's kind of what's been
19:50
going on for the past year, year and a half and it's going to
19:53
become even more intense. So we had three medical
19:58
conference presentations that really demonstrated.
20:02
The advantages of cast data fan pretty unambiguously during 2027
20:08
or 2026, we're actually going to have several more and what
20:13
they're going to do, First off, they're going to de risk cast
20:17
data fan in terms of the current phase three study that we're
20:22
running. So that's a combination study.
20:25
We'll have data that literally are the same combination, the
20:29
same setting and will only enhance the confidence in of
20:35
that particular setting. But perhaps even more
20:39
importantly, the place where we're really going with cast
20:43
data fan is in the front line setting and this is in kidney
20:47
cancer. So it's clear cell renal cell
20:50
carcinoma and there hasn't been much happening new in that field
20:55
till HIF 2 inhibition. And what you have is a very safe
20:59
and very effective therapy. And in fact in that particular
21:05
cancer 80 to 90 plus percent of those cancers have a HIF 2
21:12
driving component to that cancer.
21:14
So it's, it's a very effective drug for that particular
21:20
setting. And now the front line, that's
21:23
where we have an extremely high differentiation from the Merck
21:29
molecule because what Castatifen does is it hits the target
21:34
harder and it hits the target faster.
21:37
And we've done it demonstrated that a number of ways.
21:40
And the reason that's important is what that enables is there's
21:44
a term called primary progression that people think
21:48
about when they think about treating cancer.
21:50
And what that means is if you give someone a drug and they
21:54
blow right through it, they progress.
21:56
They don't even get the first scan.
21:57
That's a primary progressor. And that's devastating for
22:01
patients and it's devastating for physicians.
22:04
And it's particularly important when it's frontline.
22:08
Frontline is when you first have the disease and you show up for
22:12
treatment. So it's very important to get
22:14
things under control when you have that rate, high rate of
22:16
primary progression, that's something that's not good.
22:20
So Merck has had to combine, you remember we were talking about
22:25
combinations. Almost everything in oncology
22:27
involves combinations. And Merck has had to combine
22:32
their HIF 2 inhibitor with a tyrosine kinase inhibitor in the
22:37
in, in their studies in the front line.
22:39
And the reason that's important is those tyrosine kinase
22:42
inhibitors do have a low rate of primary progression, but they
22:46
come with a lot of side effects, a lot of toxicological baggage.
22:52
Now, because we have that low rate of primary progression, we
22:56
can go into the front line with what's referred to as TKI
23:01
sparing without the TKI. So what that does is it offers
23:05
the patient a much higher quality of life.
23:09
And from all the data that have been generated, it's likely that
23:13
that high quality of life can be 235 years before they'd have to
23:19
take a TKI. So they'll still get a TKI, but
23:22
you're driving the TKI from the early line setting to a much
23:27
later line setting. So what you're essentially
23:30
offering is a value proposition, is not just an incremental
23:34
difference, but two distinct types of therapies.
23:38
They're each going to contain a HIF 2 inhibitor, but ones
23:41
without a TKI, ones with a TKI in physicians.
23:46
This isn't sort of an ARCUS narrative.
23:48
This is something that physicians and patients have
23:50
been, you know, longing for a regimen where you could keep the
23:54
patient and reserve that TKI for much longer.
23:58
So a lot of the data that we're going to be sharing in 2026 are
24:04
the early studies as we refine what's going to be our
24:08
combination to go with our inhib 2 inhibitor for that TKI sparing
24:14
strategy. So we have somewhat of a Bake
24:16
Off going on in our aim is to be starting that phase three study
24:20
which one position to do by the end of 2026.
24:24
We're also as I mentioned during that you know one to two year
24:28
time frame that pancreatic cancer trial that I talked about
24:32
that was fully enrolled in September of last year, that's
24:35
going to read out. And then very importantly on the
24:38
other end of the spectrum, our first two inflammation
24:42
candidates will be taking those into the clinic in the next
24:46
year, year and a half as well. Now just I'll highlight, you
24:49
know, I was like to get into some details as opposed to just,
24:53
you know, high level platters and I was talking about like TNF
24:57
inhibition where you have drugs like Humira, Enbrel that have
25:02
created, you know, just dramatic changes for patients, for
25:05
example, with rheumatoid arthritis, the small molecule
25:09
approach here's where like you can have a clear
25:12
differentiation. So an antibody like Humira,
25:16
intrinsically there's actually 2 TNF receptors, they're called
25:21
TNF receptor one, TNF receptor 2.
25:24
Now ironically, TNF receptor 2, when you inhibit it can actually
25:31
cause inflammation, can have some patients that emerge with
25:35
psoriasis, for example. So while these drugs have been
25:38
extremely effective, there's room for improvement.
25:42
And the idea is that with a small molecule, you can in fact
25:46
just inhibit the one TNF receptor, TNF receptor, one
25:51
that's responsible for the efficacy.
25:52
And in fact, you know, we have molecules that do that.
25:55
And as I said, expect to take one of those into the clinic in
25:59
the next 18 months or so. So again, leveraging that small
26:03
molecule expertise versus a target that's got extraordinary
26:09
validation in every respect and playing to our strength.
26:13
And so that'll be another milestone in the coming, you
26:17
know, 12 to 18 months. Nice, super exciting.
26:21
And in your opinion, what are the biggest opportunities and
26:24
challenges for biotech companies navigating today's public market
26:28
environment? It's obviously been a super
26:29
interesting time in the past couple of years with with
26:32
layoffs, lack of funding, yeah. What do you think some of the
26:35
lessons learned and and opportunities and challenges for
26:37
for biotechs in the the current public markets?
26:41
So as you know, like a lot of things in life, a lot of times
26:46
there's opportunity where you kind of go in the opposite
26:50
direction of the herd. And it's not always an
26:54
opportunity, but often times it is.
26:56
Yeah. I think as you also know, in
27:00
biotech, this is kind of what I was talking about before.
27:03
A lot of that no bio, no tech is that you'll bring in a single
27:08
asset, try to take it to an inflection and then hope that
27:13
you can sell it off. And there's been, I would say
27:16
that's been a predominant feature.
27:20
On the other hand, there's a lot of very early stage companies
27:24
that are focused on technology. But you know, we often look at
27:29
technology and think about the difference between bleeding edge
27:33
and cutting edge, which things are going to take forever to
27:36
just get the point we can use it, whereas which things can you
27:40
use to, you know, create, create drugs.
27:44
And so there's that sort of sweet Goldilocks state.
27:48
So I think you know, there is opportunity to go a little bit
27:53
back in time to a place where you actually are doing that type
27:59
of drug discovery that isn't just go and in license a
28:03
molecule from China, try to develop it and see if someone's
28:07
going to buy it. Or at the same time, developing
28:10
a, a technology that's so cutting edge or bleeding edge
28:15
that you know, it's going to be forever before you can utilize
28:18
it to taking something where you have expertise and you can
28:21
actually translate either technology or biology into drugs
28:26
that, you know, take a little bit more work, but you'll create
28:30
enormous value. And that's something that there
28:33
hasn't been as much investment in.
28:36
I think a part of the challenge there of course though is the
28:39
funding and, and some of that is I think can be, you know, smart
28:43
and strategic collaboration where you recognize Juan and I,
28:48
you know, always had this notion of we'd rather own 50% of a lot
28:54
than 100% of nothing. I think there's companies have
28:58
to realize sometimes you can do some early stage strategic
29:02
collaborations where you maintain a lot of rights, but
29:06
not 100% of the rights that allows you to execute for a
29:09
period, generate very tangible value, bring in the investors
29:14
that have a long term focus, you know, quote UN quote longs that
29:18
are going to sort of drive the later phases that you get to be
29:22
more and more capital intense. And I think that's where
29:26
there's, you know, actually huge opportunity where you focus on,
29:31
you know, very tangible substance, not just sort of the
29:35
get rich quick kind of schemes where you're really creating
29:39
value for patients, for investors, you know, leveraging
29:44
true innovation, which I think you know, is despite a lot of
29:49
lip service paid to it, somewhat falls out of favour often times
29:54
in terms of an investment thesis.
29:56
And this final question that we always finish with on the Bio
29:59
Hub, if you were to sit down and have dinner with any free people
30:04
from past or present, it can be scientists, entrepreneurs,
30:08
historical figures, whoever you like.
30:10
If you were to have three people, who are the B&Y and what
30:13
would you hope to learn from them as well?
30:16
So I, I kind of have a collective group.
30:18
I've been fortunate, you know, because of being in this
30:21
industry for so long and I, you know, being very involved in
30:26
academic science. I've met a lot of the people in
30:29
chemistry and biology that, you know, you'd want to have those
30:33
conversations and they have a lot of fascinating conversations
30:36
and relationships. But on the other hand, there's
30:39
people in life that you kind of observe for one reason or
30:43
another that, you know, strike you as boy, I'd love to have a
30:47
conversation. So one of those, you know,
30:51
growing up, I was very much into sports.
30:54
I still am, but not as much. You know, I'm, I'm on the other
30:58
side of your peak to to speak. But when I was young, I followed
31:05
college basketball very closely. And you know, during the era of
31:10
UCLA dominance, when John Wooden was the coach, when you know,
31:15
Lou Alcindor before his cream Abdul Jabbar, they had just a
31:19
remarkable team, not in in teams.
31:22
He they had 88 consecutive wins. You won 10 championships.
31:28
John Wooden had, you know, awesome discipline, but the
31:31
players liked him. He was able to recruit the best
31:34
players. They had a freshman team that
31:37
beat their varsity team when the varsity team won the national
31:42
championship. So here you have a guy who puts
31:45
everything together and I just think it'd be fascinating to
31:49
speak with the John Wooden, a second person that I think a lot
31:54
of people would love to speak with.
31:55
I, I kind of have a, what I think might be unique
31:59
perspective. Why is a guy like Einstein?
32:02
And the reason that I've always been intriguing in Einstein to
32:06
me as a surrogate for those individuals who are just in
32:11
another level when it comes to theoretical math, theoretical
32:16
physics, that type of mindset, because I've always felt that
32:21
different people have a different ability to translate
32:27
mathematical concepts into like a physical reality.
32:31
So what I mean like that is we can all sit here and say like
32:35
multiplication. If I have 5 doughnuts and I
32:39
multiply it by three, we can all see, oh, that's 15 doughnuts.
32:44
Then I think you kind of move in complex if you start to think
32:47
about calculus, you know, taking a derivative and you sort of get
32:51
to that rate of change of, you know, distance with time.
32:55
Oh, that's velocity. You can visualize that.
32:58
And I think all of us have a different place where we lose
33:03
that ability to like, actually take an equation that you might
33:08
learn and sort of conceptualize what that is.
33:11
And I think someone like Einstein is like at the crazy
33:15
end of the spectrum where I imagine that a lot of the things
33:20
that mortals can't conceptualize, he he, he can
33:26
kind of translate that mathematical concept into
33:30
something that's tangible. And I'd love to have that
33:34
conversation. A third person that I think
33:38
would be fascinating to me. I, you know, as, as I got older,
33:42
I became a distance runner and looked at a lot of the
33:46
historical runners. And the guy that I think is
33:52
fascinating is Bill Rogers. So actually even in the 10 Ki
33:55
was running a 10K in Boston with my son and Bill Rogers was 63
34:02
years old. And Bill Rogers won four Boston
34:06
Marathons, I think for New York Marathons.
34:09
And my son and him, he was 63 years old.
34:12
They crossed the finish line together and he was chatting as
34:15
a super nice guy, saying, boy, we were really sweating out
34:18
there and I just love to talk to that guy.
34:20
He he was sort of, in my mind before science became so
34:26
important in sports and how you do everything and perfectly
34:31
optimized. He was sort of famous for, you
34:34
know, eating a pizza covered with mayonnaise the night before
34:37
race. Most people think like they
34:39
would end up throwing up. And I think he did have some
34:42
incidents where he had to run into bathrooms, you know, 20
34:46
minutes before the marathon was started because of what he ate
34:50
the last night before. And, you know, it's funny, one
34:53
more just popped up on my mind. So yes, for three, I'll give you
34:56
4. And he happened to this past
34:59
weekend, I saw Dave Chappelle at the Chase Center.
35:04
You know, he was in town the night before the Super Bowl.
35:08
What an awesome comedian and just so unique.
35:13
I'm walking out of that literally just to your question
35:17
as I'm walking out, when he ended and he, he was just, you
35:21
could tell how much fun he was having and he went to Perfume,
35:25
you know, where they have to basically stop.
35:27
So it was 11:00 at night and it was just so fun.
35:31
And I was thinking, boy, I would just love to sit and talk with
35:34
him. He's so smart, he's so creative,
35:37
he's so unique. It was interesting because he
35:39
had all these, he had musicians within, yet other comedians with
35:45
them. And you could tell all of those
35:48
guys, they were thinking they were thrilled to be on the stage
35:53
with him because they were going to be telling their grandkids,
35:55
you know, they were on the stage with The Beatles of of comedy
35:59
that he's just such a smart, unique guy.
36:02
I'd love to love to have just a fun conversation dinner with.
36:05
So I cheated and gave you 4. Yeah, we'll look for terrific
36:10
answers and thanks so much for coming on helping us out with
36:12
this. It sounds like what you're
36:14
building at Arcus is just super inspiring.
36:16
And yeah, it sounds like you guys that have got a really
36:19
exciting next year too and, and beyond.
36:21
So I'm excited to follow that journey and and yeah, thanks
36:24
again, Terry. It was a pleasure to to have you
36:26
on. Thanks love to come talk to you
36:28
for version 2.0 sometime.