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She Turned Plastic Waste Into Opportunity · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: You are now listening to the EU Startups podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to this episode of The EU Startup's Podcast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: as always I'm your host, Deil San Garcia, the editor at EU Start ups.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: today I chat with Angela Ivanova.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: She is the CEO and co-founder Of the recycling and sustainability company Lamont.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: They're from Bulgarian, they were found in twenty eighteen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Lamon develops a recyclable laminated paper for the printing industry or the shipping industry cover a few little segments like that and initially brought to our attention from social media outreach.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: we did on behalf of you startups to bring out more female entrepreneurs, to have their voices on our podcasts.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: We are the first to admit that we saw that a recent catalog was a bit male-dominated.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: so it's important for us find that balance and bringing those voices forward.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Angela and I chatted over her background how she came to recognize the issue of recycling potentials that is involved in the printing and shipping industry.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: We chatted about her views on women entrepreneurship in Europe, how her home country Bulgaria stacks up in terms of funding ,in terms of entrepreneurial opportunities .
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: And just the overall adoption Of sustainability measures In The Shipping Industry & Printing Industry.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: So I hope you're looking forward to it.
• 1:50
  Speaker 0: Thank you for having me, David.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Yes no it's really our pleasure here to have you just because as we mentioned before recording that this is part of our initiative at Ubistarps to bring more female voices out there and you were brought to our attention from a social media post and feeler that would put out their asking people the tag female entrepreneurs in Europe.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: So before we kind of get into the meat of the interview, I think it's best to hear really what is that you do as if they were tagged at first place.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and your background?
• 2:24
  Speaker 0: Yes thank-you.
• 2:25
  Speaker 0: well I'm CEO and co-founder of Lemon a company currently manufactures bio based and compostable flexible packaging all sorts.
• 2:36
  Speaker 0: my background has such is more or less an environmentalist activist for nature and human rights.
• 2:44
  Speaker 0: I've been deeply involved with the ecosystem over the past eight years, as we have developed the company and product at that time... ...I have a background more or less in artistic field like photographer pre-pressing print which meant it was actually very much well... in the deep of implementation, of laminating fumes to paper and cardboard.
• 3:10
  Speaker 0: Which was actually one reason that we initially started... ...the entire journey of Lemon as
• 3:17
  Speaker 0: such.".
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Okay!
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: And go ahead explain the title because it's not something I immediately understood?
• 3:25
  Speaker 0: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:26
  Speaker 0: Well, Lemon comes from Laminate on-and-on-and On.
• 3:30
  Speaker 0: Saying that i come from print & repress means literally putting a lot of laminating film onto paper and cardboard.
• 3:40
  Speaker 0: My other co-founder, Grigana was back then designer and illustrator so she was more or less involved in the same process having... guiding her clients to put different lamination in order for the product to pop out and make it more, let's say not so brittle.
• 4:02
  Speaker 0: To standout color-wise or at least have some sexy finish.
• 4:10
  Speaker 0: my work was on pre-press and print.
• 4:14
  Speaker 0: both of us were super frustrated by all plastic that this industry is generating.
• 4:22
  Speaker 0: Being friends from years before, we just started discussing the potential implementation of some alternative to our customers.
• 4:31
  Speaker 0: So we started looking for such an alternative out there on the market.
• 4:35
  Speaker 0: We were super certain that this thing exists and can buy something start using it continue with our lives as is was.
• 4:44
  Speaker 0: But yeah, we were very surprised that they didn't actually exist at all.
• 4:48
  Speaker 0: There was some alternatives so to say also degradable which back then meant these products are petroleum based mixed with starch Which is making the problem even bigger because you feel good about some eco-friendly environmental solution but in end of day it breaks down into microplastics And it's actually even a bigger issue because its greenwashing segment.
• 5:15
  Speaker 0: Glad that you banned this, also degradable plastics I believe was in the year of two thousand eighteen or twenty.
• 5:24
  Speaker 0: so just right moment for us to swoop-in and start building something that is actually sustainable an alternative to the fossil plastic solutions very much integrated into our lives.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, well to me this episode is actually quite valuable because it serves kind of a two-fold social responsibility Episode.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: cuz you've got the environmental side which he's spoken about and we need to get into Because there's a lot of data.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: while I was researching.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: This interview that oh wow That's very kind of eye catching.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: but then there's also The gender side Which i think We should Maybe Begin on Just because It's You know its reason your here?
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Its Very Interesting What Your Company Does And we probably wouldn't have even kind of had you on our radar, were it not though for this initiative that we put forward a gender side.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: So maybe should begin with then just... It's really quick.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: first topic I want to cover in the sense how do see as woman entrepreneur and whole ecosystem four women today in Europe?
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: We hear about the gender gap Every day here right on a funding level.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: we hear it mostly the differences between funding goes to women versus funding that goes to men.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious to hear what you as a woman entrepreneur in Europe think about all this.
• 6:45
  Speaker 0: Yeah, well.
• 6:47
  Speaker 0: I can gladly say things are changing not as fast they should and there is this bias especially when it comes to Manufacturing and these kind of heavy industry segment.
• 7:00
  Speaker 0: Surely, there are a lot of initiatives that are helping more and more to communicate even the women in entrepreneurship.
• 7:09
  Speaker 0: In business management.
• 7:11
  Speaker 0: I've been having the privilege to work with those throughout these years.
• 7:19
  Speaker 0: That really helped me build my presence as woman entrepreneur.
• 7:25
  Speaker 0: How I see the entire ecosystem is that it's shifting, changing but... It's not all the time best way to do because when you push something into somebody else space as if this was a must.
• 7:44
  Speaker 0: It often frustrates people and at the end of day there are issues.
• 7:49
  Speaker 0: be together and have the same ability to develop ourselves.
• 8:00
  Speaker 0: If you are a professional, you're a professional no matter gender.
• 8:04
  Speaker 0: Surely we have our different approaches generally wise but yeah that's the beauty of it.
• 8:10
  Speaker 0: this is why I'm very happy working with co-founder female and another co founder male.
• 8:16
  Speaker 0: Yeah, different sides of envisions for the strategic growth and communication is actually very balanced that way.
• 8:27
  Speaker 0: And I believe everybody should be thinking about this throughout their days.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And to us.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: first step really trying get these voices out there just as interviews like yourself.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: well we don't provide funding or customers.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: There is a third step, which if we normalize the amount of women voices out there and the number of entrepreneurs in this scene that eventually I think it will lead to normalization.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: That's our hope!
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: So speaking about the woman entrepreneur then... It's important really touch on how you began all these processes.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: You did mention worked in the printing industry, and that led you to kind of have an insight into all this.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: But what made you notice?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: there was a environmental impact here?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: That wasn't being addressed because one thing is... To work in the industry!
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And another way would be seeing these numbers doing math or even thinking why I can provide solutions for them.
• 9:31
  Speaker 0: Yeah it's very interesting.
• 9:35
  Speaker 0: I just had a very dear friend of mine that was working in the EIT, European Institute for Innovation and Technology.
• 9:44
  Speaker 0: And our representative company here in Bulgaria is Sofia who actually led an EIT program called Climate Launch Paths.
• 9:54
  Speaker 0: So at first when we were discussing It was very curious for me that the solution of bio-based material doesn't exist in the printing and packaging industry, widely spread at least.
• 10:08
  Speaker 0: Yet she just pointed to my program saying there is this opening right now with green ideas on a napkin.
• 10:18
  Speaker 0: Probably it will be something feasible and interesting for you to check in.
• 10:21
  Speaker 0: There is no fee, there's not a word as well but you can at least validate whether or not they are niche... Yeah even market opportunity of such product.
• 10:34
  Speaker 0: And this was very out-of-the-box For me.
• 10:36
  Speaker 0: I was like yeah okay what?
• 10:39
  Speaker 0: I mean should i then discuss that with Gilgana?
• 10:42
  Speaker 0: We decided apply.
• 10:43
  Speaker 0: so we applied got into the program And then we did dive into the first business modeling and all of those little steps that you're going through with coaches, mentors.
• 10:59
  Speaker 0: So it started to get more interesting.
• 11:03
  Speaker 0: We got in international finals actually in Cyprus where I remember us Gagana and I pitching in front of a jury.
• 11:12
  Speaker 0: It was one of the weirdest things.
• 11:16
  Speaker 0: Well, I was about to literally throw up out of... because there were so many that i'm pitching in front people and they're like fifty or hundred people in one room.
• 11:25
  Speaker 0: Super nervous!
• 11:27
  Speaker 0: And it's just so cute now when you get.
• 11:29
  Speaker 0: think about it we are such different back-in the days.
• 11:33
  Speaker 0: It is just two of us well Gagana and me.
• 11:38
  Speaker 0: But yeah, a lot of things passed in between the years.
• 11:43
  Speaker 0: After that we got super excited!
• 11:46
  Speaker 0: We decided to work together on this project and of course... ...we were missing very specific person who is scientific.
• 11:58
  Speaker 0: So we started digging into the ecosystem here at Bulgaria for polymers scientists to join us and, gladly we got into the Bulgarian Academy of Science.
• 12:13
  Speaker 0: We went through actually a lot of obstacles before we find Philippe And it was very nice because the EAT ecosystem as such Was the second step that we proceeded with The accelerator on climate kick opportunity.
• 12:29
  Speaker 0: That in two thousand eighteen was our second program the three of us as a team already.
• 12:38
  Speaker 0: And that's when we got our first € Fifteen thousand, which for us was like huge deal!
• 12:44
  Speaker 0: Now I get to think about it... It is such an opportunity for us partner-up and see how well together we click on each other in this team.
• 12:56
  Speaker 0: That was quite the challenge for sure.
• 13:02
  Speaker 0: friends before that, and then this third person joining the company.
• 13:06
  Speaker 0: And willingly joining the Company looking to expand his knowledge into see he's actually work being done in an industrial level.
• 13:19
  Speaker 0: super nice.
• 13:20
  Speaker 0: I'm very excited at times.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: so Then if i've understood correctly The science of it all came a bit after the idea.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: So that has To make me wonder How did you know it could even work?
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Because if he didn't have the science and he didn' t add a product, what... Did you haven't understand before then that this kind of products can be manufactured in exist.
• 13:45
  Speaker 0: Well not really but internet existed back then as well.
• 13:49
  Speaker 0: so I was reading alot things on the Internet about how is usually eliminating films and packaging.
• 14:00
  Speaker 0: how is that usually being made, what from and what are potential alternatives on the market.
• 14:08
  Speaker 0: Not completely on-the-market but as scientifically researched alternatives.
• 14:15
  Speaker 0: it was actually about that time we contacted one of the professors in the Bulgarian Academy of Science.
• 14:25
  Speaker 0: information to read.
• 14:26
  Speaker 0: She was just about to retire actually, so wasn't super excited about it but very fond of the idea to help us and give as much as she can.
• 14:39
  Speaker 0: It's hard that they introduced us to Philip.
• 14:42
  Speaker 0: So we've been reading a lot At that point looking into solutions, diving in to this.
• 14:52
  Speaker 0: We were super certain some innovation can be made and scaled into an actual product And when Philip just popped the picture it was perfect.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: So then in that process it began in the year of twenty eighteen, right?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: And I imagine kind before you were able to get into a finalized product at some time past.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: And i'm curious... I mean correct me if i'm wrong how much time passed?
• 15:22
  Speaker 0: yeah well It was like nine months ago.
• 15:28
  Speaker 0: A lot of time passes.
• 15:30
  Speaker 0: We got into such roller coaster of ups and downs pivots.
• 15:35
  Speaker 0: In two thousand eighteen years we got this small accelerator money.
• 15:41
  Speaker 0: but then of course, This is something that needs to scale.
• 15:45
  Speaker 0: We now have the machine behind me which is nine meters high and it's actually not so tall.
• 15:57
  Speaker 0: So yeah...we had to scale industrially Which was always hard especially lacking big investment and lacking the infrastructure.
• 16:07
  Speaker 0: There is not a lot of infrastructure here in Bulgaria for such tests, so we had to negotiate with outside external partners that are manufacturing currently such conventional films somehow to negotiate the opportunity to stop their machine.
• 16:35
  Speaker 0: We had quite a few tests before we reached to any sort of results and then COVID hit.
• 16:43
  Speaker 0: So everything was frozen in time, which actually gave us... I had good opportunity because it just raised our first angel investment like a month before COVID.
• 17:00
  Speaker 0: So it was the time to...
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Perfect timing,
• 17:05
  Speaker 0: yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker 0: Yeah now that I get to think about if we slowed down their investment process i'm sure those angels would have backed off but I am very happy they did.
• 17:18
  Speaker 0: these are people who are deep into the ecosystem of business in Bulgaria and Europe actually one of the biggest philanthropists and CEOs, managers that are here.
• 17:32
  Speaker 0: So Sasha Bezukhanova and Svetozar Girgiev invested in us in twenty-twenty And this was like our first push.
• 17:40
  Speaker 0: we got as a limon.
• 17:43
  Speaker 0: With that help actually We started considering an opportunity to apply for EAC accelerator The European Innovation Conceal.
• 17:54
  Speaker 0: We applied two times and the third time was a charm, which actually gave us an opportunity for this to run this place.
• 18:03
  Speaker 0: To buy the machine, expand our team... ...and have the process under our roof.
• 18:09
  Speaker 0: that really gave us the chance of playing with recipes in order to see what is exactly... materials that we are to input in order to reach the final products that you currently have on the market.
• 18:25
  Speaker 0: And this is why I'm saying, yeah it's been like eight years and just now got a product so... The entire process of building physical products manufacturing infrastructure is very risky And that's why it is very important to have angel investors, because they understand the return of investment will not be like in a year.
• 18:51
  Speaker 0: Like VCs expect for you start building your business and... In three years' time being up-and running.
• 19:01
  Speaker 0: That isn't the case with products such as ours.
• 19:04
  Speaker 0: So Angel Investors play huge role on this segment.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: So then you must be a kind of an industry adoption phase, right?
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Where are trying to get clients take this on and the opportunity.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And even at risk making it work within their current lineup.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: so what's that been like has not been difficult find.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: industry adoption can give us example.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: some company brought for instead.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: oh yeah we want adopt this into all do.
• 19:37
  Speaker 0: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 0: Sure.
• 19:39
  Speaker 0: So the thing is that we have a couple of different products That were manufacturing in the same way and process but with different rescue and implementation Of different bio based materials meaning that you have three products that are coming out of this This machine.
• 19:54
  Speaker 0: one is for shrink film which is four let's say multi packs off different beverages Mineral water beers etc.
• 20:04
  Speaker 0: Another is our mailer bags, which are perfect for delivery.
• 20:08
  Speaker 0: High seam strength and printable.
• 20:10
  Speaker 0: Perfect for all sorts of expeditions from film and centres.
• 20:15
  Speaker 0: And the other one is our clear film Which is either for co-lamination onto paper So it can be folded or turned into a food packaging Of any cardboard sort Or crystal clear packaging for legumes, pasta etc.
• 20:34
  Speaker 0: also cosmetic, so-so sorts of things.
• 20:38
  Speaker 0: It wasn't easy.
• 20:39
  Speaker 0: now that we have the products We are like entering a new phase.
• 20:43
  Speaker 0: I mean surely we have Developments that they're currently ongoing but we had The New Phase Of the company in regards of sales Now.
• 20:52
  Speaker 0: So it's not easy because Not having the trust of the market and being a new company means that the sales process will be A longer one.
• 21:03
  Speaker 0: And, Of course The company that we'll adopt your solution don't want to risk Surely not switching its supplier all over the southern.
• 21:10
  Speaker 0: with our newest startup they just emerged.
• 21:13
  Speaker 0: but But we're very happy that We've been already adopted by a couple of companies like you shipments which is fulfillment center that we just launched a small, well it's pilot to begin with.
• 21:31
  Speaker 0: but I'll be more than happy to finish them and put them in the spotlight now here.
• 21:37
  Speaker 0: And say they will be happy too see our products in regards of the mail or bags extends throughout Europe especially as there have been acquisitions by the Ostream Post which means More and more markets should be in front of us, other than that we've been working with other fulfillment centers.
• 21:59
  Speaker 0: Of course smaller companies are working in e-commerce sending things to whomever.
• 22:10
  Speaker 0: And surely when it comes I can say companies in Bulgaria were the very first and super open, eager to test things.
• 22:20
  Speaker 0: It was nice for us see that support from our ecosystem because Bulgarian market is not so huge.
• 22:26
  Speaker 0: but then again we ended up to understanding that we are very good exporters.
• 22:34
  Speaker 0: There's a lot of actually companies, they're packaging things here and exporting throughout Europe as well.
• 22:41
  Speaker 0: positions now you have the Euro Now in Schengen.
• 22:44
  Speaker 0: there is so many things that are beneficial for us being positioned in Bulgaria And one thing I see with Italy that are on the spotlight again currently for the past two years and we'll continue to be in what is next four-years because all of those goals will now go into twenty thirty, as you know.
• 23:18
  Speaker 0: We're constantly observing new markets which are in front us like France, Italy or Austria.
• 23:27
  Speaker 0: the added value of bioplastics.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, well you know and I'm fully on board with reducing the environmental impact in that numbers which got here reduces one point two millimetre tons of laminate paper wasted each year.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: That's huge.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Packaging is one half for global plastic waste.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: These are all figures to have up your website Which are very eye catching.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: But if i am a company or A large manufacturer, if I'm a large supplier of packages worldwide nationwide whatever it is.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I am going to have also ask Is there a reduced cost or an increased costs for me adopting this technology?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Because obviously i want live in the world where environmental impact is deciding factor and that's it And doesn't matter but...I have imagine though many these industries, companies that you approach have tasks.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: That's like okay.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: so if we adopt this now does that mean every package costs five cents more to make?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: What is the line on all
• 24:35
  Speaker 0: of those?
• 24:35
  Speaker 0: Yeah at the end of day everything is wow money!
• 24:40
  Speaker 0: So when we understand it and don't want some boutique product which doesn't actually have any input in the market.
• 24:52
  Speaker 0: That's why we managed to balance our price as much possible with regards of standard fossil plastic flexibles, so yes it is a bit more expensive when it comes to standard low-density polyethylene or polypropylene
• 25:13
  Speaker 0: etc.,
• 25:14
  Speaker 0: I will not dive deeper into In the greater picture, a lot of taxes on yearly base either EPR taxes or potential benefits when it comes to even the PPWR and plastic waste regulation that is now being implemented throughout Europe.
• 25:35
  Speaker 0: We have this balance in between monthly-yearly taxes for plastics in different countries, because unfortunately we don't have a harmonized EPR taxes yet.
• 25:50
  Speaker 0: In Europe.
• 25:51
  Speaker 0: not to mention that the raw materials used as being bio-based etc.
• 25:56
  Speaker 0: are not dependent on fossils which with geopolitical situations is actually beneficial for us.
• 26:09
  Speaker 0: Not that this is a good thing to have these situations non-stop currently disrupting the market, which is super frustrating.
• 26:19
  Speaker 0: But still... The tendencies for the raw materials being made from renewable resources are going lower and lower especially with more infrastructure coming in better for bioplastics.
• 26:35
  Speaker 0: So that's it, yeah we are a bit more expensive.
• 26:38
  Speaker 0: in short this is why we're targeting.
• 26:41
  Speaker 0: companies already acknowledge the sustainability matter they know their footprint and trying to calculate as much as possible carbon emissions.
• 26:52
  Speaker 0: We do have life cycle assessments of course so we try communicate not only with our customers but also And on a EU level, the bio-economy measurements and goals are getting more focused to navigate outside of the fossil dependencies.
• 27:18
  Speaker 0: That was a long sentence, but you got it.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: No no I do and It is important to acknowledge that element of the of The EU side of things in how that can help offset the cost of adopting sustainable measures.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: So definitely i just kind want to touch on that because it does Yeah automatic question somebody would have when thinking about adopting what your offering On that though then?
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: current barriers to what you're doing.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: You know, because I've seen mentioned here somewhere on my notes Yeah so compostable materials still depend On the right collection and composting systems Right?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: So is that some of the main barriers?
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Is it's The cost of adopting this technology What do say kind Of in a way now
• 28:12
  Speaker 0: The cost of adopting is not in the way that much, because we've managed to scale and I'll be more than happy for other sustainable materials and alternatives.
• 28:23
  Speaker 0: To manage to scale as much possible with... That's one actually hurdles.
• 28:28
  Speaker 0: Consistency when it comes to solutions is something that I see lacking.
• 28:36
  Speaker 0: There are a lot of things that come to the market but cannot scale because we lack consistency in regulations and communication on a new level, different member states' levels.
• 28:48
  Speaker 0: So this is the harmonization I mentioned earlier.
• 28:55
  Speaker 0: infrastructure is something that's stopping bioplastics.
• 29:00
  Speaker 0: So if you have to make a quick deep dive into all of this, the collection process for flexible packaging that we should not even expect for, and I'm saying this on a U-Level.
• 29:15
  Speaker 0: There are different countries which is better than others.
• 29:19
  Speaker 0: but again collecting flexibles was the first segment to make issues bigger because collection is bad.
• 29:30
  Speaker 0: other then recycling of flexible packaging Good as well.
• 29:36
  Speaker 0: Rigid packaging with rigid plastic, yes but flexibles rarely get recycled.
• 29:41
  Speaker 0: a lot of the Food packaging especially is being said to be contaminated by food because it's oily or something of sorts.
• 29:50
  Speaker 0: so It gets into bales and into landfills Or been exported in two other countries where we know what happens.
• 29:58
  Speaker 0: So If the infrastructure gets better, we'll be able to even recycle bioplastics because we are doing that here with our waste.
• 30:09
  Speaker 0: So we know that bioplastic can be recycled now We know there's a lot of reports and researches from different programs in consortium From the EU and from different academia That they're already showing Separation systems can be made in the already existing infrastructures, just by some infrared separation system.
• 30:40
  Speaker 0: that is shown.
• 30:40
  Speaker 0: So there's a lot more to do... ...in many of these segments for collection and recyclability because at the end we've seen Bioplastics are even making the... But true bioplasts, I mean not some greenwashing alternatives.
• 31:06
  Speaker 0: Are actually even making soil better when it comes to processes of microorganisms which at end of day will be feeding our soil and potential agricultural processes.
• 31:20
  Speaker 0: So there's a lot things that can't done on U-Level but we see.
• 31:27
  Speaker 0: Yeah, the focus currently is not that much in sustainability and circularity as we'd like for it to be.
• 31:37
  Speaker 0: Surely a lot of things are focused on AI and defense And I'll be more than happy to see that shifting next year because We need to focus more on environmental impact.
• 31:55
  Speaker 0: But this is an entirely different topic which I will not go to so much into.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah...I hear that from a lot of founders and usually the profiles we have on them podcast.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: are you know series C kind of unicorn right?
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: And these are important stories as much as the individual kind of just beginning early stage companies such yourself.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: but there's common thread between both of you is this idea that we're not there yet.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And, and that... You know?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: We seem to actually be diverting away from it when they are still a lot of ground-to-cover as if we've been like oh yeah!
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: That's good..we solved it.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: It's done.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: From what I hear for most founders who have focused on biomaterial sustainability environmental waste Most of them say we aren't here and there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned greenwashing, which I think is an interesting topic that might touch on real quick.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: just adjacent to it... Is the question of when your speaking to potential customers or potential companies are interested in adopting their technology?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Do you feel because the outcome is same?
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: obviously whether they adopted don't but do.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: there is an actual genuine interest in sustainability, or they want to put the green stamp and say yes we've done this.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: There's kind of a market pressure for them saying that you're doing something about it?
• 33:27
  Speaker 0: It really depends... The mid-sized companies are more aware and are looking for sustainability, sustainable solutions for their packaging in overall positioning actually.
• 33:43
  Speaker 0: In front of there and customer so... For corporates I have to say you know most of those are there too-to have the numbers and to have that reports right?
• 33:59
  Speaker 0: And straight which is not a bad thing if the result is correct.
• 34:03
  Speaker 0: as said We see that small and medium companies are more aware of what they're doing, And their flexible with the budget which is important to note.
• 34:16
  Speaker 0: The greater picture will be again To have the end customer pushing into these changes when looking at more sustainable solutions When making everyday choices on supermarket or whatever.
• 34:33
  Speaker 0: And of course, regulations should be coming in and more the mindset that people have to change because we've seen wildfires so many things need to focus on.
• 34:50
  Speaker 0: The collective mindsets should be focused on environmental impact as choosing whatever we do every day.
• 35:01
  Speaker 0: I don't want to sound like too romantic or whatever because it's not my thing, but we have to focus a bit more on the right things.
• 35:15
  Speaker 0: Yeah, it's just super frustrating and we see all of the souced microorganisms brains.
• 35:29
  Speaker 0: Everything is full plastic And I'm very frustrated with that.
• 35:34
  Speaker 0: really look into more and more sustainable competitors to come in and push them through.
• 35:42
  Speaker 0: Flood the market so we can have more sustainability solutions rather than for some emerging startup from here and there too.
• 35:50
  Speaker 0: start and try Yeah, navigate through some regulations.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Well you know at least you're doing something about it right?
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I'm frustrated too and i'm sitting here doing a podcast.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: so uh...I think- I think you have a better moral high ground here to be frustrated about these things.
• 36:09
  Speaker 0: No no we make our choices every day We all matter.
• 36:14
  Speaker 0: It doesn't... Okay, okay
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I recycle you know for in case anybody's wondering?
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: So uh i'm looking at our clock here and it's getting a bit long And I'm feeling from my editor.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to just kind of wrap that up because if I do have one final question and its gonna kinda hark back.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: initially You talked about Bulgaria and building an ecosystem.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: EU startups and we do focus kind of on national ecosystems And how they compare to each other now have to be honest.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I don't see that many Bulgarian startups.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Not many come to our attention and we keep a pretty wide radar, right?
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: We don't just go for the unicorns on our daily coverage.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: We cover low funding rounds, we cover pre-seed, you know below one million all of time... And yet I really do not see those many Bulgarians startups!
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: if we get to that number even.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So I want ask you from your perspective, somebody's building in Bulgaria what has the process been like?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Where does it need go for a country become kind of more well known within the wider continent?
• 37:34
  Speaker 0: First off i think we have this not believing ourselves thing here in Bulgaria because of all the history that we have.
• 37:44
  Speaker 0: So probably, one reason is I remember when we applied for DIC were like a second project ever actually has won the DIC Accelerator grant.
• 37:59
  Speaker 0: now they are more and more so.
• 38:00
  Speaker 0: i'm more than happy to be seeing it.
• 38:04
  Speaker 0: there's lot of programs now focused on widening countries And I believe that for us to communicate opportunities on a EU level, meaning as the startups in between us is super important.
• 38:19
  Speaker 0: So...I have to go into your post and tag a couple of other companies probably if they weren't in your radar but i see that the ecosystem is moving.
• 38:34
  Speaker 0: truly There was this tendency, like a couple of years ago that everything was tech and software.
• 38:40
  Speaker 0: Now we have more hands-on companies within the agriculture, Dronomics in of course FinTech.
• 38:46
  Speaker 0: We are very good at things.
• 38:48
  Speaker 0: So things are moving.
• 38:49
  Speaker 0: but...we're developing country.
• 38:52
  Speaker 0: All corruption here is a bit.
• 38:56
  Speaker 0: You don't have time to dream big I'm guessing But there are a lot of great companies here emerging from Bulgaria, and I'll be happy to point them out either in your post or just tell them to reach you as well.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Of course!
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Yes no we're always on the lookout for new things and new companies and entrepreneurs maybe give opportunities that... It aren't generally out there.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: hence even this podcast is serving I guess three sites now.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: We've got the gender side we've got The environmental impact site and then we've Got the Bulgarian sides, so it's a very rounded episode.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: So on that note i want to thank you angela Very much for coming On the podcast.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: its uh has been great to have you know?
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: And it's been A very interesting chat
• 39:44
  Speaker 0: Super!
• 39:45
  Speaker 0: Thank You so Much For the invitation and yeah Looking forward To all the other Episodes
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Great thank you.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: keep in touch Angelo Bye.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.