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Alonzo Brooks Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of our series about the murder of Alonzo Brooks. Robin,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: do you want to catch everyone up on what we
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: talked about in our previous episode?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Well. This case was featured on the Netflix reboot of
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Unsolved Mysteries in an episode titled No Ride Home. It
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: involves a mixed race man named Alonzo Brooks who was
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: twenty three years old at the time and was living
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: in Kansas. He decided to accompany some friends of his
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: to a party in a very small rural town called
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Lacene on April third, two thousand and four. Do to
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: a SER's and miscommunications, Alonso never did get a ride home.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: His friends gradually left throughout the night, assuming that Alonzo
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: would get a ride with somebody else, but instead he
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: wound up vanishing without a trace. When his family went
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: to the area to search, they found Alonzo's hat in
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: his boots located in separate ditches at the end of
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: the driveway near the farmhouse where the party had took
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: him place, so the instantly became concerned. Once the search
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: was launched for him, they were unable to find anything,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: but then when Alonzo's family did their own search twenty
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: seven days after he originally disappeared. They wound up discovering
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: his body in a creek which was very close to
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: the farmhouse, and this creek had already been searched before
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: by an underwater rescue and recovery team who were absolutely
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: certain that if Alonzo had been there the entire time,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: they would have found him. So this led to speculation
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: that he may have been planted there at a later time,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: and that perhaps his body was kept in the freezer
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: for a couple weeks because he had very little sign
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: of decomposition, He did not have any noticeable injuries. He
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: only appeared to have decomposition on his neck, so as
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: a result, the original medical examiner was unable to determine
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: his exact cause of death, so it was officially listed
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: as undetermined. It was featured on Unsolved Mysteries in twenty twenty,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: and by that point the FBI and the Department of
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Justice had gotten involved started to investigate it as a
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: potential hate crime because this was a predominantly white air
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: area and there were rumors that Alonzo had gotten into
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: a fight at the party, that people had used a
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: racial slur in his presence, or that he had been
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: hitting on a white girl, but none of these rumors
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: were actually confirmed. After the Unsold Mysteries episode aired, the
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: investigation got new tips, so they decided to exume Alonzo's
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: body and perform a new autopsy. And while details are
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: vague and very secretive, the FBI did confirm that they
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: found new evidence that conclusively proves, beyond a shadow of
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: a doubt, that Alonzo was the victim of a homicide.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: So his death was officially reclassified and is being investigated
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: at as a murder. But it's been a couple of
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: years now they're having any new developments in quite some times,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: so at this particular moment, Alonzo's murder is still officially unsolved.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So honestly, before Alonzo's death was reclassified as a homicide,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I had mixed feelings about the case following my initial
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: viewing of the Unsaw Mysteries episode. On one hand, I
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: seriously doubted that this was a simple case of an
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: intoxicated man wandering away from a party and dying of exposure.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: It did make a whole lot of sense to me
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: that Alonzo would leave the farmhouse walk to the end
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: of a long driveway, remove both of his boots, toss
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: them each into separate ditches, and then walk back onto
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: the property in the opposite direction towards Middle Creek. Admittedly,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: people can do incredibly strange and a logical things when
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: they're drunk, but I had a hard time believing that
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: his body could have been missed at that location for
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: nearly an entire month. Of course, we covered a number
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: of other cases where people of God missing in a
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: rural or wilderness area and the remains were mist in
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: the initial search effort, only for them to be discovered
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: in the same area months or even years later. If
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Alonzo's search effort had only been conducted by a small
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: town police department who were inexperienced at this sort of thing,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I could give them the benefit of the doubt that
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: they missed his body. But this particular search involved the KBI,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: the FBI, and an underwater rescue and recovery team who
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: were specifically trained at this sort of thing. Members of
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: this team were even interviewed on UNSAWD mysteries, and they
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: seemed pretty certain that if Alonzo had been on the
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: creek bank the entire time, they would have found him.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: While they certainly could be capable of making mistakes. I
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: think it says something that when Alonzo's family, who were
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: not trained at this sort of thing, performed their own
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: search of the property, they came across his body within
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: half an hour. But while the Unsolved Mysteries episode left
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: me with the impression that something strange occurred and that
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Alonzo may have been the victim of foul play, my
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: biggest issue is that I cannot figure out how he
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: was killed or why his body would be concealed for
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: twenty seven days and planted near the creek.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Okay, so super bizarre. The idea of this body not
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: being there for twenty seven days, like you talked about,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: could it have been frozen? Was it simply just overlooked?
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: You know, they described having to cut back brush before
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: they found it. Is it possible that it really was
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: just hidden really well, and maybe an animal had pulled
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: it a few feet which made it more exposed. But
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: remember when you first were describing the day that the
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: family went back the first day after he was missing,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: and they went back to look around this area and
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: found his boots in his hat. You remember that guy
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: that was on the ATV and ran them off and
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: told him to get off to the property. If there
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: had been a party at my house and you said, hey,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: my son is missing, our best friend is missing. He
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: was here last night, I would I'd meet you with
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: grace and compassionate and be like, oh man, I'm so sorry.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen anything. If I do, I'll make sure
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: you know to call you. Can I get your number.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: But there was like an anger and a protection of
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: that property when it had been so open to people
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: just the evening before, So that's quite suspicious as well.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's ever been conclusively established who
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: the guy on the ATV was, because we mentioned in
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: our last episode that this house was a rental and
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: that it was rented by four young males in their twenties,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: but I don't know if they were there at that
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: particular point. I don't know if the guy on the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: ATV was one of the four young males, but he
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: obviously he didn't take very kindly. I know this was
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: an area not known for the best race relations, and
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: that at least one of Alonzo's friends in that day
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: was black, so maybe that's why I had a problem
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: with him being on the property. But It's easy to
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: assume that if something ne faris happened to Alonzo, that
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: maybe some sort of cover up was taking place, and
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: that's why these people did not want his friends anywhere
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: near the property.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: And so his body shows up on those banks. There's
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: a question of whether or not it was frozen, because
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: there's minimal decomposition. Is it possible that pretend somewhere on
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: this property he was held for like X amount of
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: days and then say he'd only been dead for a
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: short while and his body was dumped at a later date,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: rather than him being killed right away and being put
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: into a freezer and then disposed of the creek right
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: before the search party.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I think that's possible, because I don't think anyone has
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: ever determined Alonzo's exact time of death. I mean, I
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: know that doctor Mitchell, the original medical examiner, believed he
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: had been at the creek the entire time, but it
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: is possible that he was alive or kept in captivity
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: for a couple of days before his body was planted
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: at a later time. I know we talked about in
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: our last episode the Kurt Sava case for Unsolved Mysteries,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: where there was always speculation that he got alcohol poison
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: and he was kept in the basement of the duplex
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: where the party attended was being held in hopes that
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: he would nurse back to health. But then he died
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: and that's why they decided to dump his body in ravine. So,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: for all we know, Alonzo still could have been alive
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: and being kept somewhere during the time period his friends
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: were searching the property.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Well, let me play Devil's advocate with that. Remember when
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: his bodi's found, there's no bruising, there's no sign of
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: any kind of damage to the body. If you were
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: a sober grown man and you're being held against your will,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: don't you think there would have had to have been
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: some kind of restraints used against you, some type of
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: physical altercation to get you into submission, to be quiet,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: to be held. Don't you think he would have fought
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: physically to get out of a confined space. I'm thinking
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: you might have seen signs of that on his body
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: if he truly was being held against his will. And remember,
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: he's wearing the same clothes he was wearing the night
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: of the party.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: But what if they used a paralytic that they didn't
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: know to test for because they just would probably do
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: a standard panel for toxicology, would they not.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they haven't really released many details about what they
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: found during the toxicolity you've results, so I'm willing to
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: think that if he was given something like a paralytic
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: that it could have been missed during the original autopsy.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: So the theory pushed forward by Alonzo's family is that
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: when Lynn County Sheriff Marvin Stitz granted them permission to
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: search the property, word got back to the people who
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: were responsible for Alonzo's death, so they responded by placing
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: his body on the creek bank for the family to find.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: But where did they keep the body for nearly a month?
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: The mild level of decomposition on Alonzo's body really seems
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: to go against the idea that he was lying out
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: in the elements for weeks, and since he was carrying
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: personal possessions which should not have noticeable water damage, it's
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: unlikely that he was submerged in Middle Creek. This is
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: why a theory has spread around that the body was
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: kept inside a freezer for a few weeks, And I
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: think one of the reasons this rumor caught buyer is
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: because a prominent family from the area who were suspected
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: of being complicit in Alonzo's death apparently owned a restaurant
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: with a large freezer. All that being said, it would
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: be incredibly risky and brazen to store a body of
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: a murder victim at your place of business. In fact,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: why even hold onto the body to begin with. Lacine
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: is surrounded by a lot of open land, so there
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: would be plenty of spots to bury a victim and
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: ensure he would never be found. But then perhaps the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: responsible parties felt that if Alonzo continued to remain a
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: missing person, people would keep returning to the area to
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: keep searching for him for years to come, so they
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: felt they should leave them something to find.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, So, I hate to break this to you guys
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: because you're from Canada, but US Americans are food loving mongrels,
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: and it is no surprise if you walk into someone's
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: house and they have a large, deep freezer, especially if
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: you live in an area like we do, where hunting, fishing,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: those kinds of things are common. You'll have someone who has,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: you know, a deer head sitting in their freezer forever,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: or even in the freezer. Right, So I mean, I
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: think a deep freezer. It would be kind of normal
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: to think that you have a deep freezer. My poor
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: mama still hoards freezer food, like she's feeding twenty people
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: and it's just her and my dad. So it's this
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: like nine foot deep freezer. I'm like, what are you?
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: What's in there? You know? And there's a lock on it,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: which makes it really fun. But yeah, I think that
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: the place that they were rinning could have easily had
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: a deep freezer, or another farm, you know, two doors
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: down where another kid lives, could have had a deep freezer.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: So it would not surprise me if it was more
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: common than not in this rural area for families to
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: have a deep freezer.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking that if of this family that was
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: believed to be responsible had a deep freezer at one
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: of the residents or at a farm, that's probably more
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: believable than literally putting a Lonzo's body at the restaurant
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: where people are going in and out all the time.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Of course, until the most recent autopsy, one of the
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: biggest issues with the homicide theory was that there did
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: not appear to be any noticeable injuries on Alonzo's body
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: or anything to indicate his exact cause of death. Doctor
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Eric Mitchell, the forensic pathologist who perform the original autopsy,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: acknowledged that he could not rule out the possibility of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: drowning or strangulation, but he did seem to feel that
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: the evidence supported the idea that Alonzo's body had been
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: lying on the creek bank the entire time he was missing.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: But while Mitchell was Douglas County Corner at the time
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: he examined Alonzo, he does have a pretty controversial background.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Before he relocated to Kansas, Mitchell had worked in upstate
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: New York as the Onondaga County Medical Examiner, but resigned
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: from his position in nineteen ninety three over allegations of
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: his conduct as His offenses included harvesting organs from deceased
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: victims without the consent of their families and improperly storing
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: skeletons and body parts inside his office. Mitchell has also
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: been at the center of a wrongful conviction case from
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Douglas County, as a daycare worker named Carroty Buckhorn was
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: charging convicted of second degree murder for her ledged role
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: in the death of a nine month old infant named
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Oliver Ortise. The conviction was made possible by doctor Mitchell's
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: testimony as he believed that Oliver had a skull fracture
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: which was caused by his head being stepped on. But
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: it would later come out that the boy actually died
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: from congenital heart disease and there was never any foul play,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: So Bockcorn's conviction was overturned and she was released from
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: prison after serving four years for a crime that never happened.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: So this obviously shows that Mitchell has some credibility issues
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and that he could have made mistakes during his autopsy
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: and Alonso and missed something which showed that he was
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: the victim of a homicide. All we know about the
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: second autopsy from the Armed Forces medical Examiner is that
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Alonzo had injuries which were quote unquote inconsistent with normal
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: patterns of decomposition. If I had to make an educated guess,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I think that Alonso may have had injuries to his neck,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: as Mitchell even acknowledged that he couldn't rule out the
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: possibility of strangulation. A Lonzo's body was found, the soft
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: tissues of his neck were gone due to decomposition and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: damage from animals and insects. If Alonzo had some noticeable
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: wounds on his neck when his body was placed on
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the creek bank. Then it's only natural that this would
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: be the first spot that scavengers feasted upon, So I
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: would not be surprised if the second autopsy found evidence
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: of damage to Alonzo's neck. I don't know how true
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: this is, but it's worth mentioning that one of the
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: many unconfirmed rumors which is spread around the community is
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: that a shot collar or nearly used to train dogs,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: was placed around Alonzo's neck in order to torture him.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, that's horrible to think about, and that
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: could lead to what Jules was saying, where you have
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: that he was maybe held against his will. But also,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: remember we talked about on the last episode, it's also
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: possible that the FBI uncovered information that told them more
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: that said, hey, go look at the back right of
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: his head, Go look behind his ear, go look at
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: at his elbow, and this is what happened. And you
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: could have someone who had given such specific information that
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: a relook at the body then showed a very different
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: story because they had very specific information, and or, like
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: you said, you simply have someone who was caught with
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: misconduct and making you know, really wrong claims that had
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: some big consequences relocate to this tiny town and he's
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: just not as attentive as he should be and or
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: makes assumptions to quickly clear his desk off, or he
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: didn't have the information that would have allowed him to
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: find this damage as well. So tons of options of
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: what could have really happened when you look at the
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: discrepancies in the autopsies.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, theoretically, if the rumors are true that this
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: was a hate crime, then one possible manner of death
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: could have been hanging, and maybe someone like lynch Alonzo
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: or hung him from somewhere or broke his neck. And
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: when they performed this new autopsy, that's when they discovered
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: evidence that this might have take place. And all this
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: evidence might have been concealed because of the decomposition and
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: because the animals feasted upon his neck and maybe concealed
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: any injuries he might have received.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: That makes me shudder, and it makes me think of
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Keith Warren for me too.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I just thought of Keith too.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Another potential issue with the foul play theory is the
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: idea that Alonso could have been killed at the party
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: in the presence of several witnesses, and they have all
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: somehow managed to keep their mouths shut about it for
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: over twenty years. Of course, there have always been allegations
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: that this cover up was made possible because the responsible
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: parties had ties to local law enforcement, but I'm not
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: sure that's an entirely fair assessment. The Lynn County sheriff
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: at the time was Marvin Steitz, who has since passed
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: away and is no longer a round to comment on
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: the case, but the Brooks family did not have many
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: flattering things to say about him on the Unsolved Mysteries episode.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: On the one hand, he did not seem to take
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's disappearance all that seriously at first, and if he
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: really did try to imply that Alonzo left the party,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: took off his boots, and attempted to walk back to
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: his home forty seven miles away, then yes, that's pretty ridiculous.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: But on the other hand, Stites did contact the KBI
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: for assistance only four days after Alonzo went missing, and
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: of course the rumors about a potential hate crime soon
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: led to the FBI becoming involved in the investigation. If
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Stites was attempting to orchestra to cover up to protect
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's killers. I have my doubts that he would bring
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: in all these outside law enforcement agencies so quickly. It's
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: also worth noting that, even though Lcine is a very
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: small town, Alonzo's death was not the only high profile
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: criminal case to occur during that time period. Notorious serial
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: killer John Edward Robinson happened to live on a farm
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: near Lycine and was arrested there only four years earlier
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: in June two thousand. Robinson is currently serving multiple life
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: sentences in prison and was responsible for the murders of
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: at least eight victims, two of whom were found inside
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: some chemical drums on his property. Marvin Stites was still
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Lynn County Sheriff at that time, so he was no
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: stranger to bringing in outside agencies like the KBI and
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: the FBI when the investigation was too large for him
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to handle. It's yet to be conclusively proven if Alonzo's
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: death was actually a hate crime, but even if it wasn't,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: these rumors have helped ensure that the FBI is continuing
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to take the case seriously.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: And let's assume that Marvin Stites was covering for somebody
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: I guarantee you the moment that those external agencies came in,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: they were not covering for anyone, and so they have
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: nothing to gain by covering up a violent crime. They
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: have nothing to gain by protecting law enforcement that might
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: be crooked. And so I think that that kind of
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: shatters that myth and that that idea behind it case.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: But it does make sense when the family's frustrated in
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: and angry at stites. First of all, think about the
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: emotional component. I'm telling you my son's missing. You didn't react.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: What if you had reacted sooner, would he still be alive.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: There's that kind of emotional weight that comes with an
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: investigation like this. And also when you don't have an
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: offender to blame, you start to blame everyone else. When
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I would work with cold case families, they would say,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: you know, I hate to say it, but at some
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: point I blamed my son or I blamed my husband.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Why were they out that late? Why did they go
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: to the party. Then I blamed myself. Why did I
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: let them go to that party? Why did I not
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: shut it down? Why didn't I say yes, let's go
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: to dinner instead? I blamed law enforcement. I blamed the friends.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: So when you don't have a target to say I
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: will now hold you accountable and you're responsible for choosing
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: to take the life of my son, then all of
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: a sudden, I need to direct that anger towards someone
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: to have a fair narrative. And so oftentimes, if law
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: enforcement has not solved the case, they become the person
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: held responsible for this being an unsolved murder, and it
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: would likely feel that they don't care enough, or they
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: didn't try hard enough, or it would have been solved.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: So that's I think a very natural reaction for a
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: family to have, even if law enforcement had been working
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: very hard to solve this case.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would make sense because we just brought up
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the possibility that maybe Alonso was not killed on the
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: same night he went missing, that he was being held
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: in captivity and was alive for a few days, in
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: which case, perhaps if Sheriff Stites had taken his disappearance
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: more seriously at first, they might have been able to
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: find him or rescue him while he was still alive.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So I can imagine like his family totally second guessing
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: everything all these years later because it's still unsolved and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Sheriff's Sites has become the target of some of the wrath.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I know that many of Alonzo's friends and family members
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: have always believed that racism played a role in his death,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: as we have how the account from his brother Billy
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: and sister in law Cindy that people were looking at
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: them very strangely while they were searching through Lacene. During
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: the Unsolve Mysteries episode, there was a vivid moment when
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Alonzo's friend Rodney English, who also happens to be black,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: revisits the spot where he found Alonzo's hat and boots
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: and then tells the camera crew that he needs to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: get out of there because he doesn't feel safe at all. Rodney,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: as well as Alonzo's family, have always felt a lot
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: of resentment towards Alonzo's friends for leaving him behind at
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: the party. Since all these other friends were white, I
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: get the sense that Rodney believes they severely underestimated the
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: racial tension surrounding Alonzo's presence that night and should never
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: have left him alone in such a potentially hostile environment.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: And while Alonzo is known for being a very sweet
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: and easygoing guy who got along with everyone, it also
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: sounds like he would show no hesitation to confront someone
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: if they used a Rachel slur in his presence. But
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: if Alonzo was murdered at the farmhouse, how would these
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: events have played out?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, to defend the friends, I think there's a naivity.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: There's you're pretty naive when you are someone who doesn't
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: understand what it's like to be the minority. So if
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: you know, Alonzo and I are friends and Alonzo's just
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: my best buddy, you know, people say like, oh, I
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: don't see the fact that he's not like me racially, right,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Like I don't see that this is my friend who's
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: you know, a black man. It's just Alonzo, right, And
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I'm just justin like, it just is what it is.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: But as kids and when they're not paying attention to
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: the community, the circumstances, how other people react. Not everybody
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: has the same mentality or relationship with Alonzo like these
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: boys did. But I truly believe that those boys were
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: just ignorant to the fact that when Alonzo leaves the
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: safety of that group and he's a minority at a
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: party where it's not a welcoming group necessarily, or there's
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: these underlying currents of racist tendencies that the friends don't
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: pick up on that Alonzo could have, and then he's
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: left in this situation regardless with these people who don't
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: have his best interests at heart. But I truly believe
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: his poor friends were just like, yeah, it's Alonzo, Like
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: we didn't even we weren't even thinking that these are
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: some young kids going to a party to drink and
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: being silly and pretty flippant with who's going where and when.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: So I don't know, I just have a lot of
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: sympathy for the fact that these are young kids who
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: didn't pay attention to things that they very likely should have.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: They got a lot of criticism too, Like I can
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: think back to parties that I went when I was
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: in high school or my early twenties, and like you'd
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, ash when you're like, oh, I'm fine, you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: just leave me behind, where either I was the person
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: who said that or I ended up leaving because friends
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: were like, no, no, we want to stay. And you
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: just have this presumption that everything is going to work
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: out okay, because you always think that it was at
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: that age until it doesn't. And then, like you said,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: these kids, they've just got all of this scrutiny, and
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: they're getting criticized by so many people. But I do
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: think it was a brave thing to go on Unsolved
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Mysteries and to put yourself out there, and I do
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: think that it shows that they do care about Alonzo.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And although his one friend may have a story that
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: changes in places, I think that, like Robin had mentioned earlier,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: it could be that he was driving drunk that night.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Just because he may come off as looking deceptive doesn't
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: mean that he's being deceptive because he did something to Alonzo.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And I do think they do seem genuinely remorseful and
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: distraught that Alonzo died under their watch during their Unsolved
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Mysteries interviews, and that it still haunts them to this day.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Be shame and guilt and blame and all kinds of
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: stuff that they hold on themselves. So and like I said,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: you know, at forty one, looking back at assumptions, attitudes,
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: ignorance that I had when I was twenty twenty five,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: five twenty eight, I'm a very different person now and
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: I understand the world more now, but back then you don't.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: And so I just see this group of friends who
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: said let's be stupid and go to this party that
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: they thought was going to be a tiny party. It
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: ends up kind of falling apart and everybody ends up
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: almost miscommunicating what's going on. And I just think it's
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: a sad, sad situation. And you have tons of victims
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: in this case, because no one's life when your best
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: friend goes missing and then this found murdered, no one's
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: life is the same after that. The guilt you would
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: carry for and in feelings you would carry for his
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: poor parents and his siblings and those kinds of things,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: even though you aren't to blame, that would change the
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: whole trajectory of your life.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: While The Unsolved Mysteries episode features interviews with three of
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's friends who attended the party with him, Justin Spragge,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Daniel Thun, and Tyler Bogard, though we know there were
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: other friends who went with them and did not appear
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: on camera. The story goes that they decided to the
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: night celebrating because one of these friends was leaving to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: join the military. But what's frustrating is that it's never
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: been made clear why they decided to leave Gardner and
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: travel to this particular party. In the scene, since Alonzo
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: was described as being more of a homebody. His family
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: was a bit surprised that he even wanted to go
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: to the party, so I get the impression that this
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: was not his idea and he just wanted to tag
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: along with his other friends. While their identities have never
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: been made public, this farmhouse was being rented by four
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: young males at the time, but it sounds like they
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: weren't really living there per se, and just decided to
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: use the location as a party house, which wound up
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: attracting people from outside the area since it was an
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: ideal spot for underage drinking. While Alonzo was twenty three,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: he was actually a few years older than most of
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: his other friends from this group, who were technically not
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the legal drinking age yet. I've read that one of
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's friends had a loose connection with one of the
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: four individuals renting the farmhouse, and they had once gone
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: to the same high school together, so this might explain
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: how they found out about this party to begin with,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: even though it took place nearly fifty miles away from
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: where they lived. Now, he goes without saying that Alonzo's
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: friends have received a lot of criticism for leaving him
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: behind at a party, and some online sloops have gone
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: so far as to accuse them of being responsible or
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: being involved in Alonso's death. At the very least, there's
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: been suspicion that these friends have never told the whole
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: truth about what actually happened. But it's worth noting that
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: they were extensively questioned and investigated by law enforcement who've
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: never publicly stated that they believe any of them are
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: withholding information. And while I would certainly find them guilty
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: of being young, drunken, irresponsible, I would stop short of
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: accusing them of being complicit in a murder.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Imagine being question by the police when you went to
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: this party, Like what if there was weed at the party?
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: What if they were going out to meet some girls
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: and the girls ended up being underage? Or what if
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: there had been something that was nefarious and not legal.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: But you're just stupid and young, and you're going, oh
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: my gosh, they're questioning me about my missing friend, and
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: I'm going to just kind of be tight lipped and
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: try to answer questions about Alonzo specifically and kind of
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: elude other information, like I was drinking and driving. I'm
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: not going to tell them that I had smoked some weed.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell them that. And I think
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: at some point, you know, investigators down there like, listen,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: I do not care about anything else right this second.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I don't care if you were high as a kite.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: I don't care if you were doing cocaine. I don't
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: care if you were selling drugs. I don't care if
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: you were having sex. I don't care. The only thing
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I'm asking you for is tell me the truth about Alonzo.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: And I guarantee you by the time they get there,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: with these young, scared kids, they're able to get the
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: best version of what they can remember that night about
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: what happened to Alonzo. So did they come on off suspicious?
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Did their stories change? I bet their stories did change.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: I bet they did evolve because they got more comfortable,
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: they remembered more things. You know, there's a chance that
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: at some point they talked to each other and get
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: called back to the police department. They're like, oh man,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: do you remember this? Oh yeah, I remember, I forgot
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: about that. So stories do change, and it's not always
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: because someone's involved and didn't want to tell the truth
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: about the situation.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: So the very least I think you can cut some
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: slack with Daniel Foon and Tyler Bogard as they both
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: said goodbye to Alonzo when they left the party, and
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: said that nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Since Justin
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Sprague had driven Alonzo there, I'm sure they assumed that
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Justin would give him a ride home. There appeared to
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: be contradictory accounts from Daniel and Justin during their Unsaw
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Mysteries interviews, as Daniel said that Alonzo got into an
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: argument with another partygoer before he intervened and pulled him away. Well,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Justin reported seeing no confrontations or hostility at all, and
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: said that Alonzo was having a great time. Well, this
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily mean Justin as being untruthful, because if he
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: was separated from Alonzo at the time and not present
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: to witness this altercation with the partygoer, then he was
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: probably unaware that anything happened had had no qualms about
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: leaving Alonzo alone to go out and buy cigarettes. Justin's
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: stories that he got lost and his car got stuck
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: on those rural gravel roads, so rather than go to
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: the trouble of making a lengthy drive back to the party,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: he called a friend of his named Adam and asked
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: him to give Alonzo a ride back home to Gardner.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: But of course Adam was not interviewed on Unsawn Mysteries,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: and since we've never heard him publicly share his side
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: of the story, it's unclear why he left without Alonzo well.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: On our last episode, we discussed a post about this
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: case from the Cold Case Kansas blog, and it makes
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: mention of a guy named Edward Smith, which I think
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: is probably an alias for the mysterious Adam. According to
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: this post, Edward Slash Adam did approach Alonzo about leaving
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: the party, but Alonzo told him he wanted to stay
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: and would get a ride home with someone else. If
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: this account is true, then it's possible that Alonso may
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: not have been aware that all of his other friends
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: were gone and there was no one left to give
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: him a ride. But if he was intoxicated, it's understandable
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: that he wouldn't be thinking clearly. We also have all
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: these uncorroborated rumors that Alonzo have been flirting with a
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: white woman at the party, and if these rumors are
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: accurate and Alonso thought he was getting somewhere well, this
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: could provide an explanation for why he wanted to stay
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: and turn down Adam's offer for a lift.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: That's exactly what I was thinking right now, was that
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: if he is with a group of guys and he's
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: getting attention from a female, if he thinks that the
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: females you know, thinks he's funny and they're having a
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: good time and they're being talkative, he does what Jules
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: and I have said we've dumbly done before, where we go, oh,
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: just leave, just leave, I'll find a ride home, you know,
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: because it's kind of this at twenty three years old,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: you're just fixated on this relationship and maybe you know,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: being intimate with somebody or have fun that night, and
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: so I think you get this kind of tunnel vision,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: especially if you've been drinking, where you think about, I'm
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: making progress here. I can figure out a solution once
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I get what I want, which could be this girl.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: And so I very much believe that could be potential.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: Where he's shoving the guys, I'll just go, just go,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: like you're interrupting my flow, get away from me. I'm actually,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: you know, getting somewhere with this girl, and then things
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: could turn south. Let's say she has somebody else who's
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: interested in her. Let's say it's just motivated by race.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: In someone's sees and says, I'm not okay with this
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: because there are different races. But it could be a
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: million things concerning that specific girl. I wish that a
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: female had emerged from the party and said, yeah, we
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: were getting along so well and then you just disappeared,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: or we were getting along so well and then you know,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: my friend Steve got really angry or something like that.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: But we have no information about a girl specifically at
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: that party that's been identifying.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, this rumor makes so much sense, Like
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: I could see something escalating into violence, if Alonzo was
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: hitting on a white girl and some of the other
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: partygoers didn't like it. But unfortunately, we just don't have
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: any first hand accounts to corroborate if this is true.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: So on August seventh, twenty twenty, The Daily Mail published
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: an extensive article about Alonzo's case, containing a lot of
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: information which was not mentioned during the Unsolved Mysteries episode.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I shout out of his claimer that since the Daily
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Mail is a notorious tabloid which is known for being
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: an unreliable source of information, I would take the information
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: that I'm about to share with a huge grain of salt,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: but if their reporting is accurate, it could shed some
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: additional insight into why Alonso was left behind at the party.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Rodney English was interviewed for the article and claimed the
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: story shared by Justin on Unsolved Mysteries it was different
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: than the one he shared right after Alonzo went missing,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: as he apparently never mentioned anything about getting lost and
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: only said that his car broke down and he was
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: able to fix it himself by the side of the road.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's mother, Maria, also alleged that Justin has changed his
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: story about six times over the years, while The Daily
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Mail spoke to an anonymous source who was supposedly close
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: to Justin and claimed he'd received death threats since he
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: appeared on Unsolved Mysteries and felt the show had let
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: him down by editing out significant parts of his interview.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: According to this source, Justin did leave the party to
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: go purchase cigarettes, but the episode did not mention that
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: he was actually accompanied by another friend. They did apparently
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: get their car stuck in the ditch, but Justin elected
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: not to call for help because he was drunk and
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: high at the time, since he was about to enlist
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: in the army, he did not want a dui charge
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: to potentially scoopings up. But if Justin was not entirely
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: truthful about how events unfolded that night, this could provide
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: an explanation why. However, The Daily Mail reported that phone
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: records did support Justin's story that he used his cell
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: phone to call Adam at the party, and that surveillance
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: cameras showed that Justin went to a gas station and
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: withdrew two hundred dollars from an ATM. Justin and his
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: friend then went to a strip club, but they wound
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: up being ejected from there for unknown reasons. Thus far,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the Daily Mail is the only media outlet I've seen
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: which has published this account of Justin's story. But if
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: it's true, then it gives him an alibi placing him
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: away from the farmhouse and would clear him of any
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: direct involvement in Alonzo's death. So yes, while Justin may
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: have been irresponsible that night, it sounds like he does
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: not have any further insight into how or why Alonso
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: was killed, And during his Unsolved Mysteries interview, Justin became
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: fairly emotional, so I get the sense that he was
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: genuinely guilt ridden and remorseful about not being there for
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: his friend.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Let's say, let's say you got stuck, you fixed your car,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: you went the wrong way, and then you end up
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: going to a strip club. I could see omitting that.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, you're sitting there, You're talking about somebody who
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: has their own life, has their own career, has their
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: own placement in society, has perhaps their own family. And
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: you sit there and you say, you know, why didn't
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: he tell us he was at a strip club? Well,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: he's getting ready to go into the army. Is it
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: something that he was worried would make him look bad?
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Is it something he was worried his parents would be
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: embarrassed about. Is it something you know five years later
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: that he doesn't want his wife to know. I mean,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: there's other explanations for a change in stories, And there's
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: also the way that our memories changed. They're malleable, they're pliable.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: When you sit there and you have a dream about
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: the incident, you wake up and you wonder what was
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: fact and what was the dream. When you talk to
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: someone else, your story shifts a little bit. So I
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: believe you know, by your fifth interview, it's possible a
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: piece of information has been added or taken away. I
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: don't think Justin seems like a person who is a
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: dark force in this story. I think he was an
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: other kid making some really bad decisions and had no
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: idea that the consequences because he had no anticipation that
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: his friend was going to pass away that night. He
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: thought that he was leaving his friend and many other
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: people that knew Alonzo, and that his buddy would make
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: it back just the way he said he would.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: There's another detail mentioned in the Daily Mail article which
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I think might shed some light on all the confusion
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: surrounding the circumstances of Alonzo's disappearance. The party was held
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: with daylight saving time took and the clocks moved forward
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: an hour at two am on the morning of April
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: to fourth. For this reason, investigators had a hard time
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: nailing down a precise timeline, because when you're dealing with
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: a bunch of partygoers who have been drinking, I'm sure
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: many of them are not going to be keeping track
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: of when the clocks move forward. Where I have an
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: accurate recollection of what time certain events occurred, it's been
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: reported that a fight took place at the party sometime
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: around two or three am, although it's unclear if Alonzo
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: was involved, and the original reporting on this story said
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: the last time Alonzo was seen was at around three
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: or four AM. I'm sure these inconsistencies are the results
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: of different witnesses having different recollections of what time these
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: events took place, as I doubt that all of them
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: would have taken daylight saving time into account. But what's
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: important is that we don't seem to have a solid,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: concrete account of the last time Alonso was confirmed to
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: be alive.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: What's interesting, though, is that if you did look at
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: that time frame, it's two thirty to three or three
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: to four, that could be all the same same hour,
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: right if it was a change in the clock. We
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: didn't always have iPhones that switched, you know, immediately at midnight,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: or sometimes my iPhone doesn't switch at midnight, it's which
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: is at like four am. So isn't it possible that
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: that could all just be the same timeframe?
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: It is? Yeah, I think that is a possibility. And
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: what's so frustrating about this case is that we just
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: don't have any information about when this party really ended
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: and when people started trickling out of there and going home.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: So we've talked about how it seems unlikely that if
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: there were a couple dozen people there and something happened
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: to Alonzo, that that many people would keep a secret.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: So that's why it would be useful to know, like
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: how many people were still at that party by the
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: time something happened to Alonzo.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: And remember there was another party going on too, some
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: people were leaving and going to that other party.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it makes me wonder like how many people
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: were present who might be covering some sort of secret.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: During her interview on Unsolved Mysteries, Cindy said that when
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: she and Billy traveled to the scene to search for
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Alonzo and checked out the farmhouse, she looked in through
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the window and saw that it was empty and it
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: did not look like a place where there had been
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: a huge party the night before. The wording is a
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: bit ambiguous, so I'm not sure if Cindy's trying to
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: imply that the house are being completely cleaned up or
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: cleared out, but this could be taken as a sign
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: that something happened to Alonzo there and the responsible parties
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: made sure to do a very thorough cleanup job in
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: order to get rid of potential evidence. One thing that
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: has never made sense to me is why Alonzo's hat
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and boots were found in separate ditches across the road
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: from each other near the end of the farmhouse driveway.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: We didn't find it likely that Alonzo would take off
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: his boots there and walk back onto the property towards
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: the creek, but if he was murdered, it's also weird
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: that someone would get rid of his boots at that
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: particular spot. Rodney English theorized that someone may have driven
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: to the end of the driveway and tossed the hat
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and one of the boots in a ditch across the
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: road from a moving vehicle, and then tossed the other
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: boot into a different ditch after they turned right and
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: started heading in that direction. When Justin picked up Alonzo
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: at his residence that night, he said that Alonzo put
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: on two pairs of socks and rolled one pair down
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: to tie his boot tighter since he'd recently suffered an
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: ankle injury. But if Alonzo's ankle was bothering him that night,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: could he have decided to remove his boots at the
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: party before something happened. If Alonzo was not wearing his
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: boots when he was killed, this could explain why they
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: were found step or from his body. But then why
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: not just get rid of the boots altogether rather than
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: leave them out in the open at a spot near
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: the farmhouse. This has caused speculation that perhaps the responsible
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: parties wanted the boots to be found in order to
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: send some sort of message, which adds to the whole
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: aura of Lacine being a close knit small town concealing
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: a dark secret, with most of the residents feeling powerless
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: to do anything.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: I'm wondering if you would take your boot off if
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: your ankle was hurting and you are in a place
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: that you're unfamiliar with. You know, my husband won't take
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: his boots off unless he's done for the day, because
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: he's like, my feet hurt so bad. My feet are hurting,
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: and he's like, if I take him off, it's almost
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: like I get more pain in my feet because I
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: have no support or anything going on. So I wonder
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: if he would have left the boots on to provide
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: the support for that ankle instead of saying, hey, I'm
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: going to take it off and have no stability on
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: my foot.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: And was this an inside slash outside party, because if
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: it was and people were kind of going in the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: farmhouse and out into the yard, which it kind of
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: sounds like from what they've said, then I would find
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: it unlikely that he would take off his boots because
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: that would be the only thing that would be supporting
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: his ankle.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: And remember, there's one hundred people, so I think it
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: has to be in and out. Yeah.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's never really been clarified how much was spent
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: inside and outside at the party. But it was April,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: so it would have been warm enough I think for
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: people to be hanging out outside.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: And like Ashley just said, there's one hundred people, So
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: good luck fitting one hundred people inside a house unless
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it's really big with the square footage.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Now. The aforementioned Daily Mail article also said
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: that a number of different sources gave them the name
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: of an out of towner who picked a fight with Alonso,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: though it's unclear if this is the same individual who
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: was involved in the argument that Daniel Foon had witnessed,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: but the story goes that when this guy left the party,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: he drove nearly two hundred miles out of state, and
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: he was one of the partygoers who refused to take
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: a polygraph and lawyered up when investigators attempted to question him.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: While I'm not saying this guy was responsible for Alonzo's death,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: it does open up the interesting possibility that Alonzo was
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: killed by someone who did not actually live in the
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Lacine area. If Alonzo realized that all of his friends
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: had left and he no longer had a ride home,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: could he have accepted a ride from a stranger he
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: just met at the party that night. Could this person
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: have murdered Alonzo at another location and then brought his
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: body back to Lcine and planted it on the bank
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: of Middle Creek. What's interesting is that when doctor Mitchell
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: performed his original autopsy, it sounds like he was unable
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: to provide a conclusive determination of how long Alonso had
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: been dead before he was found, though he was inclined
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: to believe that his body had been lying on the
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: creek bank during the entire time period he was missing.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: But how can we be so certain that Alonzo was
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: dead during that entire twenty seven day window. We've heard
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: all these wild theories about Alonzo's body being kept inside
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: a freezer in order to explain why he had such
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: mild decomposition. But the alternate explanation is that someone could
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: have abducted him and held him in captivity for a
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: few weeks before he was killed, and they then proceeded
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: to bring his body back to the property and dump
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: him on the creek bank. Of course, I'm not entirely
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: sure why they would keep him alive this entire time,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: as it's not like he had any noticeable injuries on
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: his body to suggest he was tortured. But then again,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: maybe something was found during the most recent autopsy to
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: indicate that Alonzo experienced violence or torture before he died.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: This almost makes me feel like a Matthew Shepherd kind
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: of thing, where you had someone who wanted to hurt
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: Matthew Shepherd because of his sexuality. But they targeted him
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: in a way that they befriended him and they isolated him,
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: and they made promises to him of like, hey, let
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: us take you home, let's go hang out, let us
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: take you home, and then their whole plan all along
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: was to attack him. And then they placed his body
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: on that fence that night and so I'm wondering could
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: something like that have happened where someone got frustrated they
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: liked the girl that he was talking to, but instead
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: of in front of all these people being rude to him,
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: they befriend him and manipulate him to a point where, hey,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: man will take you home. Hey buddy, why'n't you ride
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: with us? And they get him in the car under
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: pretenses that they're going to be good to him, and
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: then turn on him when they're away from the rest
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: of the party gooders, So it rose absolutely no suspicion
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: with anybody.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would make sense to me as well. And theoretically,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: like I said, if they killed Alonzo at another location
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: or kept him in captivity and the people from Lecine
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it, they may have decided, Hey,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to leave his body in the spot where
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: I originally took him from so that it'll divert the
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: suspicion away from me.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: And it makes sense to me if it was some
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: guy that also liked this girl who's from the prominent family.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: But it would also make sense to me if it
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: was say a relative of hers, maybe a cousin, maybe
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: a brother, somebody who is connected to the family who
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: thinks I'm not going to stand for that. This is
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: somebody who I don't know how they would have viewed him,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: if they viewed him his mixed race or they viewed
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: him as black, but either way they are thinking our
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: family is white and we aren't going to invite somebody
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: who is from the outside in in that capacity. And
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense to me, like you said, Ash,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: that they could have befriended him, and they could have
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: gotten close and then used that against him at another location,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: whatever the case. Coming up with a concrete theory about
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: what actually happened to Alonzo is incredibly difficult because even
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: though there are a ton of rumors, gossip, and hearsay
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: about events which may have taken place at that party,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: there are very few verifiable facts. Other than Justin Tyler
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: and Daniel, no one who was in attendance that night
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: have gone on the record to speak about it. And
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: assuming these three guys are telling the truth, they would
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: have already been gone before the events which caused Alonzo's
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: death took place. Even though we've heard reports about people
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: from the party lawyering up and refusing to be questioned
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: or take polygraphs. That doesn't necessarily mean they're guilty of
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: anything or concealing information, because refusing to take a polygraph
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: or speak to the police without an attorney is always
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: considered to be sound legal advice, even if you're an
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: innocent person. It sounds like the lack of a coherent
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: timeline has always been one of the biggest obstacles for
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: this investigation, because we know at some point that party
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: had to come to an end, but we have no
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: idea if Alonzo was still there at that time and
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: when the last confirmed sighting of him took place. I've
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: always found it hard to believe that something bad could
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: have happened to Alonzo at the party in full view
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: of several witnesses, because I just don't believe that many
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: people could keep a secret for two decades. Remember, this
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: case has been investigated by many agencies, including the KBI
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: and the FBI, so even if local law enforcement was
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: witnesses would have had many avenues to turn to if
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: they wanted to talk. Granted, we're not privy to all
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: the details of this investigation, so perhaps people would have
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: come forward to share important information with the authorities, but
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: they still don't have the necessary evidence to file charges
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: against anyone. I still wouldn't rule out the possibility that
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's death did not actually take place at the party,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: but instead occurred after he hitched a ride with someone
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: who harms him at another location. If this is what happened,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: there may only be one person or a small handful
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: of people who know the truth about how he died.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to go with that. I'm really leaning
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: towards this idea that he needed to get home, and
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: it was the party was winding down. There probably weren't
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: a lot of people there anymore. People were already dispersing
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: and or were so intoxicated at the time they're not
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: paying attention. But he's befriended by somebody who says, I'll
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: give you a ride, buddy, and so zero people raise
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: an eyebrow. Zero people are on to that situation. And
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: then once in that truck, we have no idea what happens.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: And then they're discarding his items and his shoes, his hat,
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: those types of things. I don't know. I just have
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: to lean more towards that the idea that people lawyered
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: up or didn't take a polygraph test. My goodness. I
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: think there's a host of families, especially in small towns,
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: that they could have an attorney friend who said, you know, like, hey,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: you tell your kids if they're ever questioned, the answer
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: is not without an attorney present, and no way will
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: they take a polygraph. So I don't see that as
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: being a clear sign that these kids knew. But I
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: definitely think that it's somebody who was at that party
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: who said, Hey, I'm going to isolate this man away
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: from this group, and then I can do whatever I want,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: punish him, get revenge, quiet him, whatever their goal was,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: And I'm starting to lean towards that's how that occurred.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I just don't see how doing a polygraph test, unless,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: for example, you're the parents and your child is missing,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: if you want law enforcement to eliminate you as a
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: suspect so they can focus their energies elsewhere, I could
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: see doing a polygraph in that context, because you want
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: to make sure that they're not focusing on you and
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: that they're doing everything that they can outside of the
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: family unit. But in this case, people who went to
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: the party, they might have a myriad of things to hide,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: so they might register as deceptive on a bunch of
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: different questions or come up as inconclusive. So if it
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: were my kid, or even if I was in my
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: twenties and know what I know now, I certainly wouldn't
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: be doing a polygraph.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be a thing where they took illegal
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: drugs at the party, or they did underage drinking. So
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: even though they may have had nothing to do with
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Alonzo's death or have any information about what happened to them,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: they're probably paranoid that it's going to register on the
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: polygraph test if they don't tell the full truth about
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: what happened, and so they would have every reason to
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: refuse to do it.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Imagine getting asked a question like is there anything you're
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: hiding about the day Alonzo died or about the day
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Alonzo went missing, and you're doing some kind of drugs
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: that are like more than we'd write something that would
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: be a Schedule one narcotic, and you don't want to
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: admit that to your parents or to police. You don't
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: want anyone to know that, And so it would come
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: up that you are lying or you're being deceptive on
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: that polygraph. But the reality is you know nothing about
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Alonzo's death. There just is stuff that you're not telling
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: the police, or.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Hey, did you contribute it all to the death of Alonzo?
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: I poured him a drink. Yeah, I uh was the
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: one who did drugs with him. Yeah, I'm the one
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: who introduced him to the people there. You know, Like,
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: so am I quote responsible? Maybe because I interacted with
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: him and I was part of his night that evening,
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: So who knows of one of my actions quote contributed
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: to his death?
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why it really does depend on
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: the polygrapher, because I think they're supposed to be asking
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: the same question like three different ways, so that like, yeah,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: if you said something like that, did you contribute to
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: the death? You could say did you directly contribute to
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: the death of ants contribute? If you asked it several ways,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: you could get different answers. So if you've got somebody
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: who's only asking it one way, then you could come
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: up with tests that are full of deception.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: One other thing I wanted to mention is that there's
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: a website about this case at Alonzo Brooks dot com
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: and it has been used to promote an upcoming documentary
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: series and accompanying podcasts about the case, which is being
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: put together by a Kansas based filmmaker named Josh Pratt.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: According to the website, Pratt has been working on this
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: project for several years, even before the Unsolved Mysteries episode
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: came out, and it's going to contain a number of
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: interviews with people connected to the case, including Alonzo's friends
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: and relatives, law enforcement officials, and even persons of interest. However,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: I have no idea when the series is going to
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: be completed or when its projected release date might be,
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: and perhaps the reclassification of Alonzo's death as a homicide
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one has sent the project in an
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: entire life different direction. Whatever the case, if and when
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: this series does get released, it may finally shed some
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: additional light on things and answer a lot of the
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: questions I've had. By all accounts, Alonzo Brooks was a
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: very nice person who loved his family and never caused
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: any trouble. So if he was the victim of a
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: hate crime and the responsible parties have managed to get
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: away with it for two decades, then that's a terrible injustice.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: We still can't be one hundred percent certain that his
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: death was a hate crime. But even if that wasn't
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: the actual motive, a young man still had his life
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: stolen away from him. When I first watched the Unsolved
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Mysteries episode back in twenty twenty, I have to admit
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: that I had mixed feelings about Alonzo's death being a homicide,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: as I felt his death could have been some sort
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: of accident, such as a negative reaction to drugs or alcohol,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: and someone decided to conceal what happened before placing his
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: body out in the open. However, the results of the
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: latest autopsy do seem to confirm with absolute certainty that
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Alonzo was murdered, and even though it's been four years
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: since that announcement was made, I do hope that things
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: are still going on behind the scenes to build a
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: case against the responsible perpetrator or perpetrators, and that they
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: will eventually face justice. So if you have been to
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: have any information about the murder of Alonzo Brooks, please
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: contact the Kansas City FBI office at eight one six
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: by one two eight two zero zero. That's eight one
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: six by one two eight two zero zero. You can
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: also submit a tips through the FBI website or called
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: the Greater Kansas City Crime Stoppers Tips Hotline at eight
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: one six four seven four tips. That's eight one six
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: four seven four eight four seven seven Jules Ashley. Any
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: final thoughts in this case.
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: This one's heartbreaking when you think about the way that
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: the families had to navigate the degrief here. When they
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: first called and they said he didn't come home, my
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: son is missing. We need your help, and they're told, well,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: we have to wait forty eight hours, and then they're
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: on their way trying to do their own invent instigation,
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: turned away by the man on the ATV, to leave
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: the feeling that my voice doesn't matter, that no one
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: listened when I said something was wrong, No one listened
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: to us when we were begging them to search to
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: help us find him. We had to go and find
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: him ourselves twenty seven days later, and then you know,
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: there's this continued flee from the family to say, listen,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: there were one hundred people there that night. Someone saw something,
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: and so they're right. It's likely that people know tiny
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: little piece of information that seemed incredibly insignificant, and yet
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: if they came forward and if they were able to
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: share those there's potential that this case could have a resolution.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: But the idea that you know, no one's talking and
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: that their own voices are not being heard has to
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: be something that completely complicates and elongates the weight of
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: the grief that they're feeling. Alonzo went to a party
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: that night, a kid that doesn't really even get out
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: of his house. He's a homebody, and you know, so
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: he went to spend time with his friends and to
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: go along with their plan, and something that should have
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: been so innocent and so fun in it in his death.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: And so I'm praying that this is one of those
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: cases that because there is a tension, because people are
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: finally listening, is this a case that actually could be solved.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I feel so deeply for Alonzo's parents and for all
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: of those who loved him, and for his friends that
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: appeared on the documentary. I think, of course, it looks
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: like they might be hiding certain things, but I don't
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: think they're hiding anything to do with the death of Alonzo.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of guilt there, and
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: like Robin mentioned earlier, when I watched it, I felt
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: genuine emotions watching them talk about it. It felt like
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: there was remorse, and not remorse in the sense that
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry because I hurt this person, but remorse because
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: they weren't there in the capacity that they felt like
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: they should, and they've taken a lot of heat for that.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: This case has just made so much more complex, given
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's all these conspiracy theories about prominent
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: families and a potential white girl from a prominent family
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: and Alonzo being quite drunk and getting into a verbal
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: altercation with somebody. So there opens up all these different possibilities.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Because there weren't his friends there to basically hold him
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: back and go buddy, like it's time to walk away,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: it's time to leave. He was left to his own devices,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: and nobody else is talking about exactly what went down
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: that night. I honestly don't know if he was taken
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: somewhere else or his body was frozen, but it does
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: seem odd that he ended up somewhere that had previously
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: been searched. There is a possibility that he could have
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: been frozen. I think it is less likely that he
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: was held at another location for close to a month
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: and then killed and then put there. But the idea
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: of the shot caller was brought up and like that
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: is a possibility, But it seems like if you're going
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: to hold somebody there for a long period of time,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: that you're going to do so because you want to
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: torture them with more than just a shocking dog collar.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: But I mean, I have no idea. This is just
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: a case that has left me with more questions than answers.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this made a vivid impression on me when I
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: saw it on the Unsolved Mysteries reboot about five years ago,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: and I talked at length about how some of the
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: cases they've shown are ones where it does seem that
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: they're obvious suicides or accidental deaths, and that the show
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: is trying to make the stories look a lot more
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: mysterious than they really are. But this one is definitely
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: the exception to the rule, because this is a rare
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: case where it was technically an unexplained, undetermined death when
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: they originally featured it on the show, and then one
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: year later they gave a new autopsy and were able
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: to confirm with one hundred percent certainty that Alonzo was
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: the victim of a homicide and that there was a
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: crime here that needed to be solved. It is frustrating
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: that it's now been four years and we still don't
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: seem to have any further answers about what happened, but
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: I do think that law enforcement is vigorously working on
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: it behind the scenes, and for all we know, maybe
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: the big break they need is for someone to come
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: forward with in because if it took place at a party,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: then it's possible that there are people out there who
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: know the truth and have kept silent about it for
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: two decades, and we have so many uncorroborated rumors. I mean,
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: some people think that because Alonzo was a minority in
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: a predominantly white area and was causing some friction at
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: this party, that maybe he was the victim of a
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: hate crime, And just hearing about the decomposition on his
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: neck has made me suspect that that might have been
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: the source of his homicide. That he could have been
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: murdered by being lynched literally or being strangled to death
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: or having his neck broken, and that's why it was
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: missed on the autopsy the first time around. So if
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: it was and Alonzo was targeted because of the color
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: of his skin, then this would fit the definition of
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: a hate crime and whoever was responsible definitely deserves to
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: face justice. I mean, I can't come up with the
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: theory of what happened with the information we have. I
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: don't know where Alonzo was during the twenty seven days
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: he was missing, why his body wound up on that
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: creek bank after all that time, But I do not
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: believe he was there the entire time when the original
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: search effort took place. So something fishy definitely has been
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: going on here. And I do sense that there are
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: a number of people in this small town in rural
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Kansas who have their own ideas about what happened but
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: have not talked. So it's now been over twenty years,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: and Alonzo's family definitely deserves to see justice done because
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: it is long overdue.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: with us on Patreon if you join our five dollars
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: which I talk about cases which are not featured on
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: The Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Patreon and if you join our highest tier tier free
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: where you can download an audio file and then boot
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Tier three.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: So I want to let you know a little bit
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: about the Jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: so they're not very many, but they're just too short
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: so we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: them in the show notes.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: any chance you have to share us on social media
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: with a friend or to rate and review is greatly
• 1:01:58
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• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Chili at gmail dot com. You can reach us on
• 1:02:02
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• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: for warm clothing.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy