Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 25 - Hormones, nutrition and metabolism in menopause

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25 - Hormones, nutrition and metabolism in menopause · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

0:00
So I've got 2 guests on my podcast today.
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I've got Mariela Fostrop and Bells Berry and we're talking
0:05
about their new cookery book called Menolitious.
0:08
We talk about how important it is to eat healthily, how it is
0:12
important that we cook and create meals from scratch, how
0:16
we don't spend too much money or too much time on our food, but
0:20
we look after ourselves. We improve our gut health and
0:22
our metabolism. So there's lots of tips and
0:24
Nuggets here, so I hope you enjoy it.
0:29
Welcome, both of you. It's a double act on the podcast
0:33
today and I'm really excited. Mariela, I've known you, I think
0:37
for quite a few years, it feels like.
0:39
But Bells, I've not met you before.
0:41
So it's great that you're both here and you've been brought
0:44
together because of the fabulous book that I have on my lap that
0:48
you have written together. And I was just saying before we
0:52
joined that I feel a bit cheated because I can't taste any of the
0:55
food because we're doing this remotely.
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So maybe when I meet you, you can give me some of the granola
1:02
that you've been shaking in front of me on the screen.
1:08
Absolutely. So Mariella, you do a lot
1:11
obviously in menopause and we've spoken before about how awful
1:15
things are for women. I think they're getting worse
1:18
rather than better. Things are are moving forward
1:21
and backwards at the same time. But in my mind, it's so
1:25
important that women are given all the information they can to
1:28
make choices that are right for them.
1:30
And I know that you agree with this as well.
1:33
You know, as a physician, A clinician, I'm really find that
1:37
it's very important not just to be thinking about a treatment or
1:41
not just being thinking about a disease or a disorder.
1:43
It's looking at being the healthiest version of yourself.
1:46
And as a doctor, I'm also ashamed to say that I've had
1:49
very poor training as an undergraduate about nutrition
1:52
and food. Yeah, it's the building block
1:54
for everything that we do. And I often say to people, if I
1:57
wasn't specializing in hormones, I would specialize in nutrition.
2:01
But the 2GO hand in hand, I know that when I was menopausal, I
2:05
wasn't eating as well because I couldn't be bothered to cook.
2:07
I was really tired and everything was just such an
2:10
effort. But even though my hormones are
2:12
balanced with my HRT and testosterone, I still need to
2:16
eat healthily as well. So I think what what you're
2:19
doing is really important. And you know, this conversation
2:22
is, regardless of whether you're taking hormones or not, it's
2:24
about how important it is to eat well for our future health,
2:29
isn't it? I think, you know, ultimately
2:32
you, as you say, there are, you know, all kinds of challenges
2:36
and they're all very subjective and they're very confusing, I
2:40
think for a lot of women. Because again, as you say, you
2:43
know, there's really not enough information out there at all,
2:46
which is why we're campaigning so hard to even get menopause
2:50
information provided during the 40 plus health check.
2:54
But, you know, in a confusing period of life and, and at a
2:59
time when I think, you know, treatment and support is not
3:02
what it should be, the one thing that you can take control of,
3:06
you know, at a time when everything might feel a little
3:08
bit crazy around you is your diet.
3:12
And, you know, when I say diet in the general sense of the
3:15
word, this is definitely not a diet book at all.
3:18
But it's basically crammed full of recipes that are crammed full
3:24
of things that are good for you rather than bad for you.
3:27
And in some cases, we'll actually support some of the
3:30
symptoms. You know, we're not saying that
3:31
they're going to get rid of anything.
3:33
And you know, like you, I think HRT is the sort of first base,
3:37
if you can take it. But I do think that we could all
3:41
do with looking a little bit more closely and harshly at what
3:46
we fuel our bodies with during this period of time.
3:50
And actually more generally, to be quite honest, there's not a
3:52
recipe in this book that isn't good for friends and family to
3:56
enjoy as well. You know, you don't be sat there
3:58
with a tin of kidney beans and a lettuce leaf, you know, while
4:02
the rest of your family feast. So I think in many ways it's a
4:06
sort of obvious step forward and hopefully a really easy manual
4:11
to just kick start an interest in what makes your body feel
4:16
better. Absolutely so.
4:18
So tell me about how you met. You met in London a couple of
4:22
years or so ago and obviously sparked off a relationship and
4:26
friendship to develop this book. Well, I was really excited to
4:29
meet Bells because for a very long time I'd wanted to do a
4:32
cookbook. I went to this sort of health
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boot camp called Yotown in my very early 50s.
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I think was the first time I went, maybe I was even 49.
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And, and that that was when I first had the sort of revelation
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that you could eat plenty because I'm very greedy, but you
4:50
could eat plenty and actually not feel like a sloth afterwards
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and just lie on the sofa waiting for it to pass.
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And, and so I got interested in all of the sort of new ways of
5:00
cooking using, you know, things like coconut milk, using loads
5:04
of pulses, using red rice, brown rice, tons of veg, but making it
5:10
taste delicious rather than a sort of chore.
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I mean, I'm definitely not, I love cooking, but I'm certainly
5:16
not at sort of cookbook creation level.
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And so I very much needed a partner.
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And in fact, I just like working with other women.
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I think you kind of bounce ideas and, and you know, things are
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often better with two minds rather than one.
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And so I was thrilled to meet Bells outside Parliament when we
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were campaigning for the single prescription charge.
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And you know, the one of the first things she said to me was,
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you know, what you think about doing a cookbook.
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And I thought, oh, this is it, the perfect partner.
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She knows everything that I don't and someone that I really
5:51
respect and admire. She has enormous energy and
5:55
dedication and a lot of experience, obviously, in the
5:59
food world, not least because she's Mary Barry's daughter.
6:03
But I think, you know, she's spent her whole life really to
6:05
date working in food. Yeah, So tell me a bit more
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about your background bells, because obviously everyone knows
6:13
your mother, but I wonder, you know it.
6:15
It's interesting. My my mother was an actor and I
6:18
hated acting because I was always sort of persuaded to do
6:23
my Lambda exams, everything. I mean, I love the theatre so.
6:26
But obviously with food, we can't choose whether we do it or
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not. As you say, Mariela, we all have
6:31
to eat. So having your mother as the
6:34
most incredible cook, we've only had a very small glimpse as to
6:37
how amazing she is when we watch her and read her books.
6:41
It must have been such a privilege for you to have eaten
6:43
so well, I I presume from the outset.
6:46
Absolutely. I mean, we've had good food in
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the house forever and mum lives 6 miles from us and she really
6:53
instilled the values of, of good food, but but, but not expensive
6:59
food. So, you know, mum didn't have
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very much money when we were growing up.
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We were a family of five. And so she would, you know, do
7:07
bulk food, but always nutritious.
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And I've learnt from that as well, you know, and I think a
7:12
lot of the recipes in the book are not expensive.
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They're accessible, they're very easy to do, which is, you know,
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you, we, we want this to be in every, everyone's kitchen.
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So I think that was really important.
7:23
So mum instilled good nutritious food and, you know, to have your
7:28
cake, you, you just, you know, have one slice of cake, you
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don't need 5, you know, all in moderation.
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And yeah, there was always good food in the house and, and she
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grew her own vegetables and fruits.
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So we learnt foraging from as soon as I could walk.
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I think it's an interesting thing, isn't it?
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Because our generation, you know, grew up with mums who
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cooked often didn't work. Some did, and I feel very
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blessed to have had that experience because I think for a
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lot of kids growing up now, the idea of sort of cooking a meal
8:00
from scratch seems to be becoming something of a sort of
8:03
relic from the past. And, you know, definitely, we
8:06
know how bad, you know, ultra processed food, ultra processed
8:09
food is. We know, you know, how we
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neglect our gutters, our peril, but actually doing something
8:15
about it. It's like we're a nation of
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cooking program watchers rather than cooking doers.
8:21
And, you know, I hope now it's something that we can kind of
8:25
get back to a bit more because it's so important in terms of,
8:28
you know, how you create the right nutrition.
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Yeah, and I think we've always gone like a big circle, you
8:35
know, because your mother's been going for so long, she's seen so
8:40
many changes. So I've got a very old Arga
8:42
cookbook of hers that's that's donkeys old.
8:45
And it's just brilliant because it's got butter, it's got cream,
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it's got just the basic ingredients.
8:51
Whereas then suddenly in the 70s and 80s, we're told that butter
8:54
is bad and we shouldn't have full fat milk and we should have
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all these, you know, spreads and various things.
9:01
But your mother never changed. And she carried on with eating
9:04
these, you know, looking at the raw ingredients, the healthy
9:07
foods. And now people have agreed.
9:10
And now we know how important olive oils are and the saturated
9:14
fats and looking at things very differently.
9:18
But but you're so right. There's so many people that have
9:20
just not understood the basics of cooking.
9:23
And it is the basics. And certainly, you know, when I
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look at this, it's not complicated.
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It's not got a really long list of ingredients that I'm going to
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have to go to some specialist book a shop to buy.
9:35
But also as as mothers or as partners, it is often still the
9:40
woman that that cooks. I shouldn't really say that, but
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it's fact for a lot of us that actually to to get people to be
9:48
more motivated to cook for the whole family.
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It's just so important, isn't it?
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But to be able to do it in a simple way so that we know that
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we're giving food that's nutritionally valued, not just
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for us, but for everybody we're feeding too.
10:03
Yeah. And I think, you know, in
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midlife particularly, women are busier than ever.
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You know, they've got growing children.
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They've got probably parents who they need to be looking out for
10:15
as well, or elderly relatives and so on.
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They've probably got jobs. You know, it's a sad truth that
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there are very few people out there who've got 3 hours to
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create a kind of perfect feast. And I think that the impetus is
10:28
more and more about things that are easy, you know, and
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unfortunately, there are food companies out there where the
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easiest thing to do is get it delivered.
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I think it really would be a great thing to kind of take
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stock, especially at a time when food itself is so expensive for
10:45
a lot of families. And, you know, by creating
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recipes that really, you know, that there are recipes in this
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book, my favorites, no coincidence, that take like 15
10:55
minutes to prepare. You know, they might take half
10:57
an hour in the oven or something after that.
10:59
But, you know, I think that you have to be practical about it.
11:02
There's no point in in pretending that we're blessed
11:05
with hours of time to be domestic goddesses, to be quite
11:08
honest. And so I hope that in a way,
11:12
it's inspiring for people who might not necessarily think
11:16
about creating, you know, interesting meals because it
11:20
actually shows that it's possible to do really great
11:23
things with minimum effort. And 90% of the recipes are can
11:27
be done in, in under 30 minutes because the average time,
11:30
apparently, thanks to our lovely Jamie Oliver is 22 minutes that
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people spend on a, on an average meal.
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So we felt that was really important, didn't we, Mariella?
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Yeah. And I think also the really hard
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thing, which, Louise, you know, you may not be a nutritionist,
11:46
but you know from all your work that you've done amazing work in
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the menopause space. You know, one of the really
11:52
distressing things for women is all of a sudden starting to put
11:55
on weight, you know, for no real reason that you can discern,
11:59
you're doing the same things that you always did, but, you
12:02
know, that roll around your belly just seems to obstinately
12:05
stay there. And I think for a lot of women,
12:08
it just adds to this feeling that everything is out of their
12:12
control and and they're debilitated.
12:15
And so I think in many ways, it's a really good place to
12:18
start just, you know, in your early 40s, think about your
12:21
diet, think about what you eat, think about what's good for you.
12:25
You know, we don't really think of fuel.
12:28
Food is fuel as often as we should.
12:30
You know, we, we think of it all like a nice meal.
12:32
I really fancy this. I really fancy that.
12:35
But you can actually tick both boxes if you just give it a kind
12:38
of modicum of, of, of study. And I think you feel all the
12:42
better and more empowered, you know, if you if you're not
12:48
feeling that the kind of debilitating effect of, of your
12:51
body changing, not processing sugar like it used to, not
12:56
definitely not processing alcohol like it used to.
12:59
You know, there are so many things that just change and you
13:02
have to. The thing about change is no
13:04
point in just, you know, being like King Canute and pushing it
13:06
back or trying to. You know, you have to, you have
13:10
to flow with it, don't you? Well, I think one of the things
13:13
as you, you know, as a physician, I'm very interested
13:16
in the cardio metabolic problem of low hormones.
13:19
And when I say that, it's the changes to the metabolism in our
13:23
body when we don't have our hormones.
13:25
And as you say, a lot of people put on weight in the midline
13:28
because our bodies are trying to get estrogen.
13:31
Our ovaries aren't producing estradiol in the same amounts.
13:34
So then our fat cells produce estrone, which is a very weak
13:37
type of estrogen, but it's all it can do.
13:40
But our fat cells also produce, there's lots of cytokines, lots
13:43
of chemicals that increase inflammation in our body.
13:47
And they can really, these changes in the metabolism can
13:51
really have big impacts on the way that we use glucose, the way
13:55
that our insulin is released. And so there's this spiral
13:59
really of things that happen. And what I see often in my
14:02
clinic is that people are then scared to eat because they eat
14:07
the same, they exercise the same, and they're putting on
14:09
weight. And obviously taking the right
14:11
dose and type of hormones can really improve that.
14:13
But it can take a while to kick in and have an effect.
14:16
But in the meantime, women are telling me what I don't really
14:19
eat, but I'm still putting on weight.
14:21
But then when you talk to them, they're maybe having a low fat
14:24
yogurt with some fruit, maybe for breakfast.
14:28
They're having a meal deal at lunchtime and then they might be
14:32
having some pasta with a, you know, a, a ready made sauce.
14:36
And so they're hardly having any nutrition.
14:39
They're not really having protein, they're not having good
14:41
fats. They're counting their calories
14:45
and I'm like, Oh dear, you're 1st and then they're hungry the
14:48
whole time. All they're doing is thinking
14:49
about food. Shed loads of salt as well, you
14:52
know. Absolutely.
14:53
And that's why we haven't got calorie counts in the book,
14:56
isn't it, Mariela? We were very strong about that.
14:58
I hate calorie counting anyway. I really hate diets.
15:01
I've never been able to go on a diet.
15:02
Maybe I hate them because I'm no good at them, but you know,
15:05
every time I go on a diet all I think about is food and I end up
15:09
eating more. Probably as a result is that
15:11
every time I go to the gym, I think I can afford to eat more.
15:15
I rarely lose weight if I go to the gym, you know, And I think
15:19
for a lot of women, this whole kind of battling with weight is
15:22
something that goes on all through your life and is really
15:26
heavily impacted by your fertility journey and what stage
15:30
you're at during it. And it's one of the things that
15:33
we really haven't, you know, looked at I think forensically
15:38
enough. And, and again, you know, in
15:41
terms of information, there just isn't enough out there.
15:44
And so people, as you say, Louise, keep keep on doing the
15:47
same thing and then being puzzled and depressed about the
15:52
fact that it that it's not working.
15:54
And, you know, food ought to be fun.
15:55
I love food. I mean, I don't want to keep
15:58
repeating myself, but I really do.
16:01
And, you know, I don't think that eating well should be a
16:04
penance. You know that that that to me
16:07
is. No, I totally agree.
16:08
And yeah, I, I mean, I am, the trick is, is of eating really is
16:13
to be able to eat and feel full for as long as possible.
16:16
And I, I mean, I get migraines, so if I don't eat regularly, it
16:19
will trigger a migraine. So I'm, you know, I'm very
16:22
obsessed in what I eat because if I eat processed foods, for
16:25
example, it will trigger a migraine.
16:27
So I have to be prepared. I have to take food with me or I
16:30
need to know where I'm going to eat or what I'm going to eat,
16:33
which is a bit boring, but actually it's giving me really
16:36
good habits. But but you you said bells about
16:40
protein and fibre because just explain a bit more about protein
16:44
and fibre and how important they are for people.
16:46
Well, I mean, protein is very important to support, well, you
16:50
as you know, to support muscle mass, you know, so to eat your
16:53
lean meats, your beans, your lentils, nuts and tofu, you
16:58
know, it's really important. So fibre is very important for
17:02
the gut. And so you do need to have your,
17:05
your fiber based fiber dense food in your diet.
17:10
And that's why in in in the book we have got the protein count,
17:14
fiber count and carbs. And so much of the ready made
17:19
food, sorry to go back to it that you buy has literally, you
17:23
know, no fiber whatsoever in it or you know, the barest minimum.
17:29
And yet it's one of the easiest things to put back in your diet.
17:32
You know, 10s of beans using, you know, good rice instead of
17:36
white processed rice. You know, there are so many ways
17:39
that you can address it. You just have to be motivated to
17:42
think, OK, you know, my stomach, my, my, my digestion is working
17:47
in a particular way now. And it needs some help along the
17:50
way. And I think in many ways, you
17:53
know, although this is a book, you know, we called it
17:56
Menelicious for a reason. You know, it's a book I wish I'd
18:00
had in my 20s and 30s, you know, just in order to encourage the
18:05
good habits that I learned when I first went to that boot camp,
18:09
for example, you know, just in terms of, you know, delicious
18:14
food that contains, you know, we think, I think in a way food
18:18
became, has become something to really, you know, beat yourself
18:21
up about. And there have been a billion
18:23
fads in my lifetime. I think I even tried the vodka
18:27
and grapefruit diet at one stage because in my 20s, my weight
18:31
used to go up and down much, much more than it than it has
18:34
actually since I had my kids in my early 40s.
18:38
And so I don't think it's, it's a an issue that's that's
18:42
relegated only to women going through perimenopause.
18:46
And I think it's one of those things where, you know, the
18:49
earlier you start thinking about fuel rather than just filling,
18:55
you know, the better. Absolutely.
18:57
And you know, I, I speak and see a lot of women who have hormonal
19:02
changes when they're not menopausal or perimenopausal.
19:05
So they have PMS, premenstrual syndrome or premenstrual
19:08
dysphoric disorder, PMDD. So they have a lot of sugar
19:11
cravings just before their periods.
19:14
You know, when their hormone levels really drop, their mood
19:17
goes down. They feel very mentally and
19:20
physically slow often, but they're craving the wrong foods.
19:24
And then they eat a lot of carbohydrate, a lot of processed
19:27
foods, and then they feel worse because their sugars, you know,
19:30
are all over the place. So looking at foods that's going
19:34
to have the right GI index to really stop these peaks and
19:39
troughs of insulin, it's going to be really beneficial
19:42
throughout all ages of women really, isn't it?
19:45
Absolutely. And I think in the book the, you
19:48
know, the my favorite piece is the nutritional science
19:51
explained which talks about the collagen, the B vitamins, the
19:55
fibre, healthy fats, magnesium, protein, the prebiotics,
19:59
probiotics, etcetera in very, very.
20:02
Very simple terms, because I think you know, it's, it's, it's
20:05
not easy to understand what all the what, what part, all these
20:10
have to present in your body and it's really important to
20:13
understand it. I think as well for me like
20:16
that, that we've got a chapter on sort of food to go because
20:19
one of my worst habits is, you know, I suddenly find myself
20:24
absolutely starving halfway through a working day and I'm
20:27
surrounded by chain sandwich bars and you know, and you go in
20:33
and then you grab the first thing that you see.
20:35
And when I was working on Times Radio, you know, and I had four
20:40
years where I was in there every day, like a sort of nine to five
20:44
job. I started taking lunch with me
20:48
and because I got just really fed up of trying to sort of
20:50
forage around London Bridge for food and it made such an
20:55
enormous difference, you know, making myself like a really
20:58
nutritional bean pot or something, you know, that I
21:02
could heat up in the in the microwave at work and, you know,
21:05
give myself something that really sort of lasted throughout
21:08
the day, helped with that slump in the afternoon.
21:11
I mean, the other thing with that sort of sugar craving in
21:14
the afternoon is it's, you know, it's so tempting to just reach
21:18
for a bar of chocolate or you know, something sweet to kind of
21:22
get you through it. But actually one of the things
21:25
I've started to do in the last couple of years is just sort of
21:28
mass make energy balls, you know, made with loads of dried
21:31
fruits and nuts and so on. It takes 2 minutes.
21:34
You stick them in the blender. You can make 50 balls and then
21:38
just put them in the freezer and make sure that they're around,
21:41
you know, take them with you in the morning if you're going out
21:43
to work or whatever, Make sure they're at hand when you have
21:46
that slump and you get such a brilliant burst of energy.
21:50
But it's also sustained, you know, so you're kind of ready to
21:54
wait for your evening meal before you start having those
21:57
cravings again. Yeah, because you've got three
21:59
different, haven't you, energy balls on one page.
22:01
Which is great. It's the worst picture in the
22:03
book. I have to just get that out now.
22:06
Doesn't hit the most. Appetizing.
22:08
It looks like a tray of testicles, I think, which isn't
22:12
the most appetizing thought, but all the rest of the photography
22:16
is so fabulous that I thought we might overlook it.
22:18
So I'm just doing a disclaimer on the energy ball photo.
22:21
I was at your house when we were filming that, remember.
22:24
I had to go away when we were photographer.
22:26
I know. And we both looked at that,
22:28
Sure. And when?
22:31
I just, I don't know whether people can see those of they are
22:34
watching it. You'll be able to see true
22:36
shades of brown on the tray. Buy a copy and you can see it in
22:40
all its gory glory. Yeah, but the others, the other,
22:46
you know, colours make up for it.
22:47
And actually, you know, eating the rainbow sounds a bit cheesy,
22:51
but it's so important. And you mentioned about the gut
22:55
microbiome and it's really, really important.
22:59
A lot of doctors as well still don't understand the importance
23:02
of the gut microbiome and the connections with our mental
23:05
health and reducing inflammation.
23:08
And the more that we can improve our gut microbiome, the better.
23:11
So, you know, I would have thought thought by just looking
23:14
at your book, pretty much all of the recipes are going to improve
23:17
the gut microbiome, aren't they? I mean, it's funny, a lot of
23:21
doctors still say to someone who presents with kind of tummy
23:25
issues, you know, oh, you need to go on a white food diet.
23:29
You know, you want plain white bread, white rice.
23:34
And I find it baffling because we know so much more about food
23:37
nowadays and it feels like we're on catch up with the very people
23:42
who I'm not saying all doctors should be nutritionist, but they
23:45
should, you know, it would be good for an awareness of, you
23:48
know, the whole I mean, I'd say Tim Specter and people like that
23:51
have been doing in, you know, teaching us about gut health and
23:55
so on. It would like to.
23:56
I'd love to see that sort of expanded through other areas of
24:00
advice giving. Yeah, it's so important.
24:03
And I feel, you know, I take my responsibility being a medical
24:06
doctor very seriously. And I feel like I can't, I can't
24:09
tell people to eat better. If I sit there having eaten
24:11
McDonald's, you know, burgers for my lunch and smoke 20
24:15
cigarettes and whatever, you know, you have to practice what
24:18
you preach. And, and it's so much easier
24:20
actually to talk about how much better you feel when you eat,
24:24
eat better. And, you know, my diet has
24:26
improved with time. And, you know, I also have three
24:29
children and I've always felt very responsible for bringing
24:32
them up and making sure that they are well fed as well.
24:36
And I always, you know, cook for the freezer and everything.
24:38
And it is important, but it's habit forming.
24:41
And you've got to get in the right frame of mind, the right
24:43
habits to sustain because it's not just like a one day thing
24:47
every day we've got to cook and we've got to do the shopping.
24:50
And and that you say a lot of people do find it very
24:54
expensive, but a lot of things that certainly in here, it's not
24:58
all fresh food either. You can use like tins of beans,
25:02
you lots of seeds, lots of things that you can buy in bulk.
25:05
And I think, you know, I love buying in bulk because it, but
25:08
it does make things so much cheaper, doesn't it?
25:10
No, absolutely. I mean, bulk buying and bulk
25:13
cooking, you know, I think are, you know, definitely our friend
25:17
one because it's, it's much cheaper and the other because
25:22
it's so much less time consuming.
25:24
You know, I, I never make a meal that's just for that meal.
25:28
I mean, I love leftovers anyway, you know, even if they're just
25:31
leftovers the next day, you know, in the, in the fridge.
25:35
But, but I, I tend to make enough so that I can make one
25:38
meal and freeze one meal so that I can just pull that out on a
25:42
day when I'm truly knackered and you know.
25:45
And especially with soups, we're coming into soup season and that
25:48
is, and I know you don't like leftovers, none of us like
25:50
leftovers. But Mariela, you particularly
25:52
don't like things that left in your fridge.
25:54
And I love leftovers. I meant vegetable, you know,
25:58
just. Oh yeah, yeah, old.
26:00
Veg that's what I meant. Sorry, but to make a soup.
26:04
You seem like fridge. And to be able to freeze it
26:08
etcetera and keep you going is absolutely fantastic, isn't it?
26:11
We've got some good soup recipes.
26:12
Yeah, absolutely. So there's, there's a lot we
26:15
need to be doing just for educating.
26:17
And, you know, I wish the medical profession would take
26:21
diet and nutrition a lot more seriously because it will really
26:24
help prevent a lot of diseases. We we know it's, you know.
26:27
But don't you think, Louise as well, that that's about, you
26:30
know, what we're supposed to be moving towards?
26:32
But it seems to me incredibly painfully slowly, which is this
26:37
idea of preventative medicine rather than reactive to
26:42
conditions, you know, and we just don't seem to be there yet.
26:45
And I think, you know, people sort of say, oh, don't go on
26:48
about menopause again. But the thing about menopause is
26:51
that it actually highlights a lot of things that are issues on
26:55
a much broader spectrum, you know, and, and you know, for
27:00
example, with menopause, if you have the information, if you
27:05
know what's happening to your body and you have a vague
27:08
understanding of what's going on, you will make all those
27:12
adjustments before it's too late and you're developing long term,
27:17
you know, conditions as a result of, of the depletion of your
27:21
hormones. But if you don't know any of
27:23
that, which is the situation we were in, I would argue, 10 years
27:27
ago, then you're creating patients for the future by just
27:33
not giving them the information they need, which is why, you
27:35
know, I go back again to the 40 plus health check and just women
27:39
being provided with information. Yes, it doesn't start.
27:42
You know, I used to think that menopause was just a bad
27:45
birthday present on your 50th and then you sort of careered
27:49
off into the twilight and probably died a few years later.
27:52
Well, you know, we know that that's not the case.
27:55
We know that it starts up to 10 years beforehand.
27:58
And we know that it's a, you know, amazing gift that we have
28:02
as women to have a second phase of our lives when we're sort of
28:05
liberated from extreme empathy. And, you know, we've become more
28:10
selfish and more ambitious and more energetic.
28:13
You know, if we treat ourselves well and can have a really
28:16
interesting second-half of our lives, you know, which is
28:19
certainly not the the sort of mythology around menopause or
28:24
certainly not until very recently.
28:27
We need to improve our health span for our lifespan
28:29
fundamentally through good food. Absolutely right.
28:33
You know, I'm really interested in the whole difference between
28:36
health span and lifespan. And I always say it's not the
28:39
it's not the age we die. It's a journey to that age and
28:42
everything that we can do to reduce diseases.
28:45
You know, it seems weird me as a doctor saying I want to prevent
28:48
disease. We can do that with nutrition.
28:51
We can do that with exercise. We can also do it with good
28:54
hormonal health as well. And we have to join the dots
28:57
and, and work together because it's not a one or a other.
29:00
It's doing it all together. And as you say, Marianna, you
29:03
know, the most important part of my work is educating people so
29:06
they can make choices about their future health.
29:09
Because so many people, for example, don't even realize that
29:12
we can prescribe hormones. They're licensed to be
29:15
prescribed to prevent osteoporosis, which effects one
29:18
in two menopausal women. Well, you know, I mean, that's,
29:21
that's another of the shockers, which is that an awful lot of
29:23
women don't know that one of the underlying symptoms or one of
29:27
the underlying, you know, diseases that that can be
29:30
created by this loss of hormones is osteoporosis.
29:33
Yeah, absolutely. Quite honestly, you know, women
29:36
need to be aware of the connection to serious conditions
29:41
that are caused if you don't take action.
29:43
And, you know, I mean, I don't want to make it sound all doom
29:46
and gloom because we do make menopause sound like, you know,
29:49
this terrible, terrible, you know, period of time where
29:52
nothing works. And, you know, and there are
29:54
lots of women who sail through and there are lots of women who
29:58
have minimal symptoms. But the underlying symptoms, I
30:02
think are some of the most worrying.
30:04
And they can often just, you know, be left completely, you
30:08
know, to get worse because of this lack of understanding about
30:11
what you can do to mitigate lack.
30:13
Of knowledge, yeah. Absolutely.
30:15
So we still need to keep going. We still need to be thinking of
30:18
it as a hormone deficiency that lasts forever with health risks.
30:22
But in the meantime, we need to be thinking about your book.
30:25
I always ask for three take home tips.
30:28
That's hard with two of you. So I'm just going to ask each of
30:32
you actually your two favorite recipes for the book.
30:36
So if I go first with you Bells, what are your two recipes that
30:39
you're most proud of that you want people to to do?
30:42
So I'm so excited. I would love the Razzle Hanoot
30:46
Rice salad with orange and cumin dressing because I love the
30:51
dressing with the orange and the cumin ticks all the boxes.
30:54
I think it's an original recipe. And you know, I like the fact
30:59
that you can choose which rice you want or which grains because
31:03
that's so important. So I absolutely love that recipe
31:07
and oh, what else am I going to do?
31:10
I think the Mediterranean lunch pot, because as Marilou was
31:13
saying to take a take a lunch pot, whether it be a jam dart to
31:17
work. And that has, again, that has
31:19
red rice, but that has the buckwheat.
31:21
So that's going to be a slow releasing for, for your energy
31:25
shell temp. You know, it's, it ticks all the
31:28
boxes. And you know, the Mediterranean
31:30
dart is fantastic for all of us. So that's my take on that.
31:35
Perfect. Over to you, Marianna.
31:37
Well for me for speed and deliciousness and it may help
31:40
that it's got the word quick in it.
31:43
But the coconut, spinach and chickpeas also in there.
31:50
Dal is so delicious. Literally, I did it the other
31:54
day in what 1213 minutes in terms of prep that all things
31:59
that you can have in the cupboard, you can have the
32:01
spinach in your freezer, you know, you can have the chickpeas
32:04
in tins, coconut milk and so on. So I absolutely love that it's a
32:08
real go to and I do quite like making.
32:10
We've got these delicious flatbreads in there, probiotic
32:13
flatbreads that you can make, which again, you sort of buy
32:16
them in the supermarket, don't you?
32:18
Because you think, well, that's going to be a lot of effort, but
32:20
actually there's barely any effort at all in making the
32:23
flatbreads to go with it. And it's an astonishingly good
32:26
meal. And the other thing, I guess,
32:29
would be the porridge bread, which I was originally had the
32:34
recipe shared with me from my Irish friend of mine, Orla,
32:37
which is bread made with oats, yogurt, seeds, an egg, a
32:42
tablespoon of milk. And it is, I think, I think it's
32:46
fair to say, completely foolproof.
32:48
I'm not a good Baker. I don't have bells and her
32:52
mother's skills at all. Everything I bake just looks
32:54
terrible. My daughter, thankfully, is
32:56
better than me. And so Molly is the cake Baker
32:59
in our house. But this porridge bread is
33:01
foolproof. And I know that because I'm the
33:04
baking fool. And it takes away.
33:07
I love bread. I really love bread.
33:08
I mean, it's probably my greatest vice.
33:10
You know, if I'm in France, I'm like in bigot heaven, but
33:15
obviously it doesn't make me feel that great after I've
33:18
devoured it. Whereas the porridge bread guilt
33:22
free. You can put anything you like on
33:24
it. You can cut it up and freeze it
33:26
in slices and use it for your toast in the morning.
33:29
My top favorite is toast with a butter and Marmite.
33:33
But, you know, on healthier days, I might have some almond
33:35
butter, but it's just, it's such a good bread.
33:40
And yeah, you know, people look at me like, but no flour.
33:44
No. And and you don't miss any of
33:46
it. And even my kids like it.
33:48
Perfect. So well, I'm feeling quite
33:50
hungry, but thank you so much for joining me today.
33:53
It's been great. Thank you.
33:55
Thank you for having us. Thank you so much for having us
33:58
on, Louise. You know, we're both big fans of
34:00
yours and incredibly in awe of all the work you've done in in
34:04
this space as a, as a real pioneer.
34:06
So it's great to talk to you. Oh, thank you.