Latest / Love You Moore with Willie Moore Jr. / Why Do Churches Cater to Women More Than Men? | Bishop Jason Nelson Gets Real

Transcript

Why Do Churches Cater to Women More Than Men? | Bishop Jason Nelson Gets Real · Love You Moore with Willie Moore Jr.

0:00
[SPEAKER_03]: artists to me aren't good pastors from and I'm we own a podcast.
0:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to be careful how I say this, but a lot of the singers don't necessarily preach well.
0:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Mary for a long time.
0:19
[SPEAKER_05]: How long have you been Mary, man?
0:20
[SPEAKER_05]: 29 years.
0:21
[SPEAKER_05]: 29 years to the same woman to one woman to one woman to your girlfriend all that wife she's she's all that and then some so you the weird thing is that you don't see that in ministry as much anymore to one wife like right what parts of ministry
0:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you learn in ministry that you had to kind of bring back the home that was in adjustment?
0:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Because 29 years later, she didn't marry a pastor.
0:49
[SPEAKER_03]: No, she married James.
0:50
[SPEAKER_03]: She thought she was marrying the safe one in a family and because the other one's going to do so.
0:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, no.
0:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And my brother James, you know, he is a pastor.
0:57
[SPEAKER_03]: She was like, I had no ideation whatsoever for being a pastor, so neither one of us expected it.
1:06
[SPEAKER_03]: But when the Lord called me,
1:08
[SPEAKER_03]: When I finally said, yes, she was like, y'all go hit.
1:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I went in telling the church of front.
1:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hey, if I got to make a decision between y'all and my family, it's going to be them every time.
1:20
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
1:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Church is always going to take a back seat to my family, because the first ministry that God has called us to is family.
1:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Church is a bit feminized.
1:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That's this short easy answer.
1:32
[SPEAKER_03]: We've made the church easy for women and hard for men.
1:39
[SPEAKER_05]: family welcome to another edition of the Love You More Show.
1:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Before we get started I want to tell you thank you to the thousands of people who subscribe to this channel we are on our way to 300,000 subscribers.
1:52
[SPEAKER_05]: That deserves a bill.
1:54
[SPEAKER_05]: They told me that about 62, 63% of our audience are actually just watching and they're not subscribed so I want to challenge you to become a part of the Love You More Family where we're here for people where hurts, habits, hangups and heartbreaks,
2:07
[SPEAKER_05]: and their journey to loving themselves again.
2:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Come on somebody, listen, I also have to show major love to my amazing partner, RX Outreach.
2:18
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2:20
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2:27
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2:34
[SPEAKER_05]: And you say, well, tomorrow, I ain't got the money.
2:35
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2:37
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2:38
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2:39
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2:50
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2:51
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2:53
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2:58
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3:02
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, major love to my partners at rxoutreach.
3:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Let out.
3:05
[SPEAKER_08]: Love you more podcast after this.
3:09
[SPEAKER_08]: every day, people are forced to make impossible choices.
3:12
[SPEAKER_08]: Between their health and their household bills, prescription calls are out of control, but there is health.
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3:39
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3:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I wanna encourage you to go now.
3:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Flat out.
3:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, Willie Mojoon, you hear, have you ever had the opportunity to really like open up the veil of somebody that you honored so much because of their gift and you didn't know that that was really a strong human that had experiences.
4:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Or maybe that's not what, that's not what you get.
4:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that's not what you've ever done.
4:08
[SPEAKER_05]: But when it comes to like gospel music and bishops and pastors, sometimes your imagination seemed to run away with a seal.
4:14
[SPEAKER_05]: because you don't think that people actually go through life just because they serve God.
4:18
[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, sometimes life is a little bit more unique because of people acknowledging the call.
4:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, today you get an opportunity who's seen ministry display.
4:30
[SPEAKER_05]: He's seen a strong example.
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[SPEAKER_05]: And then he was able to go on and be the man that he is today because of the strong example.
4:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Today we get the opportunity to hang out with the one and only.
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[SPEAKER_05]: Pastor Jason Nelson.
4:44
[SPEAKER_04]: That's it, but God loves you, that moment.
5:04
[SPEAKER_05]: That's it.
5:05
[SPEAKER_05]: I will be cooking.
5:08
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm so grateful that you here because today my guest is one of the most amazing pastors, worship leaders, artists, and just an all around great man, funny story.
5:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, many of you all may or may not know, but I have a syndicated radio show and title the Willie Moore Junior show.
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[SPEAKER_05]: It touches millions of people every single month.
5:34
[SPEAKER_05]: And 10 years ago, when I started, all I had was an opportunity to audition for this show.
5:40
[SPEAKER_05]: If I can be honest with you, you know, if you ain't never had no job.
5:44
[SPEAKER_05]: So audition was so unique for me.
5:46
[SPEAKER_05]: The first day I came in super duper church.
5:49
[SPEAKER_05]: I think even what church shoes, you know, the ones with this light, you have to think I did there.
5:53
[SPEAKER_05]: But the second day I decided,
5:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to win a lose.
5:56
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to be myself.
5:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And we decided that we will win and be ourselves.
6:00
[SPEAKER_05]: My first interview was the gentleman that I'm about to introduce you to right now.
6:05
[SPEAKER_05]: The one and only Jason Nelson is hanging out with us.
6:08
[SPEAKER_05]: What's going on champion?
6:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Brother, how are you, man?
6:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Man, I ain't never had it this good, man.
6:12
[SPEAKER_05]: I hear you.
6:13
[SPEAKER_05]: I hear you.
6:14
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm so grateful that you're here, man.
6:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Here I'm gonna love you more, show.
6:17
[SPEAKER_05]: I like to start with a nice break.
6:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, this isn't some funny joke that lands late.
6:22
[SPEAKER_05]: It's actually music.
6:23
[SPEAKER_05]: And the name of this song is called, Turnin' Point.
6:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Check this out.
6:28
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, when I left that church, my life had changed forever.
6:31
[SPEAKER_05]: I realized that moments quickly become memories.
6:34
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's important that you spend great moments with your loved ones because you just don't never know.
6:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of loved ones, I was getting picked up by one of my favorite but not so favorite uncles, Uncle G. I mean, he owes school, driver Cadillac had to the back and he not need to sit up, but he's still a good guy.
6:52
[SPEAKER_05]: He's sometimes joked too quick, but the truth is, he's exactly what I need to do in this time to bring me back to Earth.
6:59
[SPEAKER_05]: He walks up, and he says...
7:02
[SPEAKER_05]: You are right, sir.
7:04
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like it's tough.
7:05
[SPEAKER_05]: He can tell you.
7:05
[SPEAKER_05]: I know it, but it's a part of life He says don't worry about a thing.
7:09
[SPEAKER_05]: He's in a better place.
7:11
[SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
7:11
[SPEAKER_05]: You know I'm crazy, right?
7:13
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why they say in a better place.
7:15
[SPEAKER_05]: He in a box But you know you see I got your laugh and already laughter is healing for the soul.
7:20
[SPEAKER_05]: No matter what it did laugh at all keep laughing You're like no matter what you do.
7:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, now get your punk ass in the car
7:26
[SPEAKER_05]: What?
7:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Good jazz in the car, Junior.
7:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Why?
7:28
[SPEAKER_06]: See a lot of people don't understand again, right?
7:30
[SPEAKER_06]: So there's no stability in this doll.
7:32
[SPEAKER_06]: Why are you living off for him?
7:34
[SPEAKER_06]: There's a dream, you have to say it.
7:36
[SPEAKER_06]: If people are by your music, you don't eat.
7:37
[SPEAKER_06]: That's all.
7:37
[SPEAKER_06]: It do get hard for you some time, y'all.
7:40
[SPEAKER_06]: I'll tell you that was a real thing.
7:43
[SPEAKER_06]: Steady striving for start, I'm only fortunate in fame.
7:47
[SPEAKER_06]: On my face, I'm smiling in my heart, it's pain.
7:57
[SPEAKER_06]: Promise that times I want to break down No one loves you, me This time I'm going up and going back down If you would need a little help Taking a round of precautions Time's getting harder Do what we got to do in the feed I saw us in the audience You weren't able to survive Then you got your word You just told me to claim it And I saw a lot of love Living in my steady stream Nobody's gonna be there
8:47
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm making everything out
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[SPEAKER_05]: It turns you to go stream, turning point right now.
8:54
[SPEAKER_05]: It's available whatever you get your music.
8:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Pastor Jason Nelson, the name of the song is Tarnin Point.
9:00
[SPEAKER_05]: About 10 years ago, so you decided to take a really quick pivot, and you made a Tarnin Point to being pastor Jason Nelson, right?
9:07
[SPEAKER_05]: It's been years now.
9:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, what does it like as a pastor to get them off a Spotify and really follow your discipleship when they used to have
9:18
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a great question.
9:19
[SPEAKER_03]: We at our church, one of the things that I try to tamp down is me as an artist.
9:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I never try to lead like the artist, because the music piece,
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[SPEAKER_03]: It does its job, but ultimately artists to me aren't good pastors.
9:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm, we want to podcast, I got to be careful how I say this, but
9:49
[SPEAKER_03]: a lot of the singers don't necessarily preach well or teach well without casting dispersions.
9:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying.
9:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I try to not fall down that path.
10:04
[SPEAKER_03]: When they come to the church saying, I'm going to Jason Nelson's church, they're not meeting me as an artist at all.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They're
10:18
[SPEAKER_03]: wanting them to grow mature to become a disciple that's ultimately what our goal is as a ministry at the tab.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, it's about trying to disabuse them of the fact that an artist is a pastor versus a pastor is an artist.
10:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
10:36
[SPEAKER_05]: So, what example did you see growing up?
10:39
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I see that your brother, he's in ministry, your ministry.
10:44
[SPEAKER_05]: How did that, what example did you all have?
10:47
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, hey, man, I'm gonna do ministry versus, you know, whatever else you could be doing.
10:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Because you got a great voice.
10:51
[SPEAKER_05]: My mom always said, don't talk about my mom alone.
10:53
[SPEAKER_05]: She's like, whoever that boy right there, if he could just say, baby, baby, baby, he'll, he'll, he'll, but you are so obedient to the call.
11:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Who gave you that example how to be obedient?
11:06
[SPEAKER_03]: My dad, so I succeeded in my dad's ministry.
11:10
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been 19 years now.
11:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And what we saw in our dad was consistency, he dug into the world.
11:19
[SPEAKER_03]: He was always what he preached.
11:23
[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't see a phone because, and I've seen the opposite where you have these people who are kind of just doing whatever they want to do, and they come and preach, but my dad wasn't that.
11:30
[SPEAKER_03]: But what we saw on the pulpit is what we saw at home.
11:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for us, all we saw was the authenticity of ministry.
11:39
[SPEAKER_03]: We saw what it meant to love God.
11:41
[SPEAKER_03]: We saw what it meant to struggle.
11:42
[SPEAKER_03]: We saw what it meant to hang in there when life was punching you in the face.
11:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And we take that same ideal.
11:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what we bring to the gospel community when people see me as an artist when they see me as a pastor, they're seeing me doing my best to live out as authentically this call as I possibly can because I think at some point when you
12:09
[SPEAKER_03]: try to operate as effectively of what God has called you to do.
12:12
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not only doing disservice to him, but the people who you're called to lead, they're not seeing the authenticity of who God has called you to be.
12:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't don't do fake.
12:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't do phony.
12:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I try to be what you see is what you get.
12:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
12:25
[SPEAKER_05]: So when you took over the church and you know, you're seeing daddy do it a certain way, but we see culture change in what parts of what he gave you went with you and what
12:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Ooh, a lot had to change.
12:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Our core beliefs, I think those state pretty much intact, but because I was dealing with a younger demographic, I was dealing with a group of people who quite literally weren't necessarily interested in the way we did church, prior had to find ways to navigate
13:00
[SPEAKER_03]: what church was like in a modern context.
13:04
[SPEAKER_03]: My dad is 40 years older than me.
13:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So talking to him is 40.
13:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
13:08
[SPEAKER_05]: I had me wanting to 40.
13:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, god bless your heart.
13:13
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, when you when you are,
13:15
[SPEAKER_03]: 40 years older than your successor.
13:18
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a whole lot of things that he thought should kind of remain.
13:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, nah, man, I can't keep doing that because that work for you and that work for the people who you were leading.
13:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And most churches become what their pastor is.
13:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was young when I started younger.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I guess I think I'm still young.
13:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but younger when I started married my kids, that's what we started attracting, so and one of the biggest things that I diverged from with my dad was our preaching styles.
13:46
[SPEAKER_03]: He's one of those hoopers.
13:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, you got all right.
13:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
13:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Say yeah.
13:50
[SPEAKER_03]: All of that.
13:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
13:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
13:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't do that at all.
13:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I've ever, in all 19 years of me preaching, say, Lino and tell your neighbor, say, yeah, or something like that, I've never done it.
14:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Man without that singing, you got it, you got it, you got it, say it, say it, say it, say it, I've never done it.
14:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so weird, and that was his biggest complaint.
14:17
[SPEAKER_03]: When I first started pastor, he was like, you got all of this great information, but not enough inspiration.
14:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I mean, that was his thing.
14:26
[SPEAKER_03]: But what we discovered is that the new generation wasn't clamoring for that.
14:31
[SPEAKER_03]: They were really looking for information, make it make sense.
14:35
[SPEAKER_03]: How do I apply this to my life?
14:36
[SPEAKER_03]: How do I take this and give it to my neighbor?
14:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's kind of why I found my forte.
14:41
[SPEAKER_05]: So you make it no strong decisions.
14:43
[SPEAKER_05]: When it comes to your music, has there ever been a song
14:46
[SPEAKER_05]: that you weren't really rocking with as much as other songs and then you ended up putting it out.
14:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Cause seem like you have a strong deep personality.
14:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, hey, this is what I see this where I'm going.
14:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
14:56
[SPEAKER_05]: But then there's a record that you not really feel and they put it out and it just explodes.
15:00
[SPEAKER_05]: Has there ever been a record like that for Jason?
15:01
[SPEAKER_05]: She has something to atmosphere.
15:03
[SPEAKER_03]: That song changed my life.
15:04
[SPEAKER_03]: You didn't want to do that one.
15:05
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
15:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Not at all.
15:07
[SPEAKER_03]: She has something to atmosphere.
15:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I sound with very records, it's in 2011.
15:13
[SPEAKER_03]: This is blasphemism.
15:14
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I promise you, I came, I came, I got on board eventually.
15:19
[SPEAKER_03]: But Stanley Brown, Jeff Grant, and Jazzy Jordan.
15:29
[SPEAKER_03]: They were like the three people who were kind of running the label at the time with regard to me.
15:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And Stan was like, ships and amispens the song.
15:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And my response to him was like, that's not even a song.
15:39
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like a segue.
15:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Literally, ships and amispheres on that record was a song that got us from the praise out of the record to the worship side of the record.
15:48
[SPEAKER_03]: That's how I viewed it, it was like a breach, you know what I mean even when you look at the the construct of the song is not really written like in A.B.
15:57
[SPEAKER_03]: format like verse, chorus, verse, chord is not written like that at all.
16:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was like it's not a song and he said everybody that here's his song is heavily impacted by it.
16:07
[SPEAKER_03]: One time he said he was playing it in his office and somebody walked by and just started crying.
16:11
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, I noticed this is one, I was like, man, that ain't a song, but eventually the more I started to kind of listen and pay attention, I saw that my rigid way of looking at songs was actually doing me a disservice.
16:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So I acquiesced and they went with shifting to atmosphere and that song literally changed my life.
16:33
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16:39
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16:43
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16:46
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16:54
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16:59
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17:03
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17:05
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17:10
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17:13
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17:21
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17:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Flat out.
17:27
[SPEAKER_05]: And it turns mine too.
17:28
[SPEAKER_05]: That's how I was introduced to you.
17:29
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
17:30
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going down 75.
17:32
[SPEAKER_05]: I have no money really.
17:34
[SPEAKER_05]: I took a little money to come down to view the land of Atlanta.
17:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
17:38
[SPEAKER_05]: I was coming out of an R&B field.
17:40
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm riding.
17:42
[SPEAKER_05]: And I meet this guy.
17:43
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I meet this guy, Bishop Bronner.
17:45
[SPEAKER_05]: online on Facebook.
17:46
[SPEAKER_05]: He sees my video vlogs and he begins to encourage me and say, hey, if you haven't had lunch, stop by the church.
17:52
[SPEAKER_05]: And I said, I'm going to come to Atlanta.
17:53
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to stop by and see you because he always commented it was good.
17:56
[SPEAKER_05]: And I remember coming down and I put on praise one or two five.
18:01
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not on the radio at the time, but I'm excited because praise is on the air on the FM dial.
18:08
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm from St. Louis.
18:08
[SPEAKER_05]: It's on gospel 1600 on the AM dial.
18:11
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm about
18:14
[SPEAKER_05]: And I remember like yesterday, shift in the atmosphere.
18:18
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the first time I hear it.
18:19
[SPEAKER_05]: So now I gotta go find it.
18:21
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, oh, it's just doing nice Jason Nelson.
18:23
[SPEAKER_05]: I know nothing about gospel music, but even 15 years later, I remember that song being the song that I came in.
18:31
[SPEAKER_05]: The first time meeting Bishop Barnard, who liked it, became my mentor, liked it, became my pastor.
18:34
[SPEAKER_05]: And now it's my personal advisory board leader.
18:37
[SPEAKER_05]: So,
18:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Man, that song changed my life so glad that they didn't listen to you.
18:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Man, I'm glad they didn't listen to me.
18:43
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad.
18:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
18:44
[SPEAKER_05]: So I got to ask you this, and you know, you've been married for a long time.
18:49
[SPEAKER_05]: How long have you been married, man?
18:50
[SPEAKER_05]: 29 years.
18:51
[SPEAKER_05]: 29 years.
18:52
[SPEAKER_05]: To the same woman.
18:54
[SPEAKER_05]: To one woman.
18:55
[SPEAKER_05]: To one woman.
18:57
[SPEAKER_05]: to your girlfriend all that way.
18:59
[SPEAKER_03]: She's she's all that and then some.
19:02
[SPEAKER_05]: So you the weird thing is that you don't see that in ministry as much anymore to one wife.
19:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Like right what parts of ministry did you learn in ministry that you had to kind of bring back the home that was in adjustment?
19:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Because 29 years later, she didn't marry a pastor.
19:18
[SPEAKER_03]: No, she married Jay.
19:20
[SPEAKER_03]: She thought she was marrying the safe one, and
19:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And my brother James, you know, he is a pastor.
19:27
[SPEAKER_03]: She was like, I had no ideation whatsoever for being a pastor, so neither one of us expected it.
19:36
[SPEAKER_03]: But when the Lord called me, when I finally said, yes, she was like, y'all go hit.
19:42
[SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
19:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, literally, y'all go hit.
19:45
[SPEAKER_03]: That was y'all.
19:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Like me and what my dad and whoever else is in the church, he was like y'all go hit.
19:51
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm cool.
19:53
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm good.
19:55
[SPEAKER_03]: She just didn't want, I don't think she expected it, but too.
19:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure she really got how much
20:07
[SPEAKER_03]: The law was really trying to reframe my church.
20:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And ultimately, she just didn't want to be a part of it, not as a pastor's wife.
20:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I pray, because one of the things that that was big for me is I had seen broken marriages destroy churches.
20:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So I started praying.
20:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, Lord, if this is really you, I need Tanya to come on board with this.
20:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And um, it was y'all y'all y'all y'all.
20:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And one day she was like, you know what, we could do at the church.
20:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I heard it.
20:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, okay.
20:43
[SPEAKER_03]: And then a couple weeks later, she said, you know what else we could do?
20:46
[SPEAKER_03]: We could do such and such and such blah blah blah blah.
20:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, that was a Lord showing me that she's coming along.
20:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I, our church would be nothing like it is today if my wife wasn't with me.
21:03
[SPEAKER_03]: She's the reason why we've advanced as much as we, as much as we do.
21:07
[SPEAKER_03]: She's very creative.
21:08
[SPEAKER_03]: She sees things.
21:08
[SPEAKER_03]: She dreams things in our nature and her input has been invaluable to who we are as a ministry now.
21:16
[SPEAKER_05]: So when you look at your choice in the inception of you just being Jason Nelson, maybe a singer, maybe what's that anything else that you want to do besides singing, oh yeah, I was supposed to be an electrical engineer.
21:28
[SPEAKER_03]: That was my thing.
21:30
[SPEAKER_05]: I can see that, like, you know what, do you still, do you still get it in stuff like that or not?
21:35
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a techie.
21:35
[SPEAKER_05]: A techie, right?
21:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm definitely a techie now, right?
21:38
[SPEAKER_03]: But that was what I was, what I thought I was supposed to do.
21:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was going to do music on the side.
21:45
[SPEAKER_03]: That was my thing.
21:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And even when I got, I got called a preacher 17.
21:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So I knew that there was something on me back then.
21:53
[SPEAKER_03]: But,
21:53
[SPEAKER_03]: pastoring now.
21:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So what is a call to preach actually sound like?
21:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So from now I've heard multiple stories of people who talk about the call to preach.
22:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people here here are audible voice for some it's a feeling for me it was a knowing.
22:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember I was sitting in a parking lot outside of telling his apartment.
22:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know, I was sitting in the parking lot, but I remember I was kind of sitting on the stopper, you know, so the car's on going up into the curb.
22:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was just sitting there and I felt this thing on me so heavy.
22:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I, you're called a preach.
22:32
[SPEAKER_03]: You, you are called to preach the word.
22:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember going home and having a conversation with my dad about it.
22:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was like, okay, so, and so we started, you know, start to put me into preachers classes and all the kind of stuff.
22:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So they got preachers classes.
22:46
[SPEAKER_03]: We did it.
22:47
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
22:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I can't speak for everybody else, but we did it.
22:50
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you learning preachers, Claire?
22:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Hermannudix, how to, you know, homiletics, how to preach.
22:58
[SPEAKER_03]: They had this book, it was actually kind of a classroom setting.
23:01
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a book called The Pre-Train is Preaching.
23:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll never forget it.
23:04
[SPEAKER_03]: The Pre-Train is Green and White Book, one of the most boring reads.
23:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd ever partake in it, but it was foundational for me, how to understand scripture, how to interpret scripture things at a nature.
23:18
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the stuff that we learned.
23:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And I still didn't preach.
23:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I just took the classes because I knew I felt this call to preach.
23:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it didn't matter for years.
23:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I was 30 when I first started kind of really getting into the preaching ministry.
23:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, so you meet this woman, Tanya, yeah, growing up together.
23:35
[SPEAKER_05]: It sounds like 17, 16, you meet him.
23:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's as late teenagers.
23:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Late teenagers, you get married with nothing in your mind that says, hey, man, I'm going to be the pastor of a church.
23:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I know I'm called, but I don't know what that actually looks like.
23:48
[SPEAKER_05]: How does one,
23:49
[SPEAKER_05]: choose a woman early and then have this big call like how do you I know you chose the right woman but it's like many marriages crash when things transition into something that one of the parties is like I didn't sign up for this yeah so what would you say to a younger couple who may be in question mark about that call in their purpose when it as it pertains to marriage because it has to be tough.
24:11
[SPEAKER_03]: It is tough, so I think the origin's matter, right?
24:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the impetus of a thing creates either sustainability or lack thereof.
24:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So we have a tendency, especially in this generation, to use aesthetics as the barometer for what
24:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, we think happiness is going to bring.
24:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're looking for a dime, right?
24:33
[SPEAKER_03]: We're looking for you got to be, you know, he got to, she got to be fine.
24:36
[SPEAKER_03]: He got to be fine the whole night.
24:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And while I think aesthetics matter in marriage, quite a bit, because you have to like what you wake up to every any, no lie.
24:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
24:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and there's somebody for everybody 100%.
24:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But.
24:50
[SPEAKER_03]: There has to be an alignment of purpose.
24:54
[SPEAKER_03]: There has to be an alignment of relationship with God.
24:58
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the Bible talks about unequally yoke and things that nature.
25:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And how we colloquially saw it when it was, you know, when we were younger, the old school.
25:07
[SPEAKER_03]: If you ain't saved and they saved, then that's unequally yoke to me.
25:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's definitely not what the scripture means.
25:14
[SPEAKER_03]: But ultimately, there is an alignment that has to happen with regard to how you view destiny.
25:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that becomes probably the most important foundational tool to help build a marriage that is sustainable through changes in life.
25:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
25:32
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of marriages fail when they lose a child.
25:37
[SPEAKER_03]: or what the apparent dies and the alteration of life is not factored into the marriage.
25:49
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, for us, because we understood very clearly not only our dedication to each other, but our dedication to the Lord, knowing what the Lord was saying gave us the ability to pivot.
26:05
[SPEAKER_03]: in the marriage so that when I got called to pastor, it didn't drive her away.
26:11
[SPEAKER_03]: It did create some dissension.
26:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I ain't got a lot because I'm saying yes to something, she absolutely doesn't want.
26:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
26:19
[SPEAKER_03]: But
26:20
[SPEAKER_03]: because she trusts my relationship with God, she started praying about this what I found on later.
26:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know at the time, but she started praying and asking God to prove to her that this was the call that God had for me.
26:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And because we're both praying towards the same goal, eventually God brought us together, not just in our marriage, but also with
26:48
[SPEAKER_05]: You seem like a really calm, cool guy.
26:52
[SPEAKER_05]: But I know that the comment, the coolest ones you don't want to get on the other side with them.
26:57
[SPEAKER_05]: That's all.
26:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Not even the little bit.
26:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Like first time my met you, I was like, yeah, because see, I believe this.
27:03
[SPEAKER_05]: The ones that's overly kind, if the ones who go to jail, because they like ate them by the meat.
27:08
[SPEAKER_05]: But when I remember being married and I remember having a transition in the ministry because my wife she married pretty Willie, the R&B guy.
27:15
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a role.
27:16
[SPEAKER_05]: You really got to see what I'm doing 30 Friday Saturday.
27:18
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I'm out there getting it.
27:19
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm coming back Sunday with the bag and I'm doing how to do and then God comes in and says you're away in my way and then coming back to make her understand, well, to try to explain what I'm feeling, what I'm hearing, which is very difficult.
27:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Like so when it came to you having to bring this news in,
27:35
[SPEAKER_05]: What type of patients did you have to have when you dealing with a person who may not necessarily understand like what's going on?
27:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Like because we know guys gonna do it.
27:44
[SPEAKER_05]: We know we pray in the body, but there's a certain decorum that you have to have.
27:47
[SPEAKER_05]: There's certain patients that you have to have.
27:49
[SPEAKER_05]: In the practical sense, there's men right now doing jobs that they don't know.
27:52
[SPEAKER_05]: No longer want to do any more.
27:54
[SPEAKER_05]: They feel like God is calling me to go out and do something bigger, better, but right now I'm taking care of this nine to five.
28:00
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm afraid to tell my wife because if I tell her her she probably gonna kill and destroy my dreams, like how does a person bring that and steal be furthering about what they believe God is called them to do?
28:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Slowly.
28:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Slowly.
28:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And deliberately.
28:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So the thing is, I think we have a tendency to, because we believe what we believe, we think that everybody is going to believe like we believe.
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's not true.
28:23
[SPEAKER_03]: There is a, I think there's a cosmic difference between how we think people are going to receive it and how they often do receive it.
28:33
[SPEAKER_03]: So slowly, hey, babe,
28:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I really feel like the Lord is telling me, I'm supposed to pass it to church.
28:41
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
28:42
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
28:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, there was something like, okay, but it didn't change how I felt.
28:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Her response didn't change how I felt.
28:50
[SPEAKER_03]: It made me understand that I had to approach her in a different way.
28:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So eventually, we were able to have a conversation about it.
28:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, I'm not driving her to this is what we're going to do.
29:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, this is what the Lord has called me to do.
29:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I started talking to her about what we do, what we met because I'm like, and again, I told the Lord very clearly, I'm not going to take this assignment.
29:14
[SPEAKER_03]: If he's going to destroy my marriage and also understand that if I take this assignment without her being on board, it could destroy the church.
29:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm liable for that.
29:24
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, I'm thinking,
29:27
[SPEAKER_03]: as broad term as I possibly can because, excuse me, because I understood at the onset, the viability of having the right wife was in it, but also the detriment to having a wife who's not into it.
29:44
[SPEAKER_03]: So very slowly, very deliberately, explain over communicate, that I think that's the only way to do it.
29:52
[SPEAKER_03]: My dad is, I told you, 40 years old is in me.
29:55
[SPEAKER_03]: He would make decisions.
29:56
[SPEAKER_03]: We're like, that's it.
29:59
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
30:00
[SPEAKER_03]: It's final.
30:00
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what we're doing.
30:02
[SPEAKER_03]: My wife ain't coming from that generation.
30:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I like.
30:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, exactly.
30:07
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean, that's final?
30:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't have a voice.
30:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So the thing is, you have to talk to your spouse, like they have a voice.
30:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And it goes both ways from the male, from the husband and from the wife.
30:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you really have to figure out.
30:20
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we are called to this life of loving God and loving people and living out this call.
30:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not easy, right?
30:30
[SPEAKER_03]: The life is gonna hit you in the face with a sledgehammer times.
30:36
[SPEAKER_03]: we have to recognize that both sides of the equation are evolving, we're changing, we're growing, we're growing together.
30:43
[SPEAKER_03]: The passage that I am today, after 19 years of pastoring, is nothing like the pastoring that I was when I was installed July 7th, 2007.
30:52
[SPEAKER_03]: We, I'm completely different.
30:54
[SPEAKER_03]: same shell, same frame, but my mindset, my understanding, my relationship with God, my relationship with my wife is far more robust now than it was back then.
31:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think part of what you have to do is we have to walk into this process and knowing that evolution is a part of who we are.
31:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think sometimes relationships break because we won't let people evolve.
31:20
[SPEAKER_03]: then I don't know if it's a podcast, but I'm a pastor, so.
31:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on, man, we know you're gonna say their word.
31:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's in Genesis 12, God tells Abram, who we have the benefit of knowing will become Abraham.
31:31
[SPEAKER_03]: He tells Abram, leave your, leave your country, your country, your country, and your father's house.
31:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And go to a place that I'll tell you of, and I'll bless you, make your blessing.
31:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So we jumped to the blessing without understanding what Abram had to depart from in order to become.
31:47
[SPEAKER_03]: And to leave his country, the place that he's comfortable with.
31:51
[SPEAKER_03]: is Kindred, the people who are comfortable with this version of him.
31:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And his father's house, which is the system that he's accustomed to operating under, has to leave those three things, so that he can become.
32:03
[SPEAKER_03]: So God put, so the Hebrew for, in the King James is to get the out.
32:10
[SPEAKER_03]: In the Hebrews of Word, how lock HALAK, but it's a derivative of another Hebrew word, YALAK, why ALAK?
32:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Both of those words mean to move to walk,
32:20
[SPEAKER_03]: for amulet, pergrinet, whatever word you want to use.
32:24
[SPEAKER_03]: But y'all like means to move and grow, to go and add, right?
32:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So, God told,
32:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Abram, go get yourself for all intents and purposes.
32:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Abram, go find you.
32:40
[SPEAKER_03]: But you can't find you here.
32:42
[SPEAKER_03]: But he's already married.
32:43
[SPEAKER_03]: He already has a family, already has rich, he's already, he has all of the accultural amount of a great life.
32:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And God says, now go get yourself.
32:52
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you handle that?
32:54
[SPEAKER_03]: When God is telling you in your success, you're not who I want you to be.
32:59
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what happened with us in our marriage, when the Lord called me to preach.
33:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me, I had to go and get the Jason that's a pastor.
33:10
[SPEAKER_03]: But I couldn't go and get the Jason that's a pastor without my wife.
33:15
[SPEAKER_03]: So we both had to grow into the version of me that could be seated in the office of a pastor.
33:23
[SPEAKER_05]: That didn't exist when I got the call.
33:30
[SPEAKER_05]: while going to get on what happened to Jason the man.
33:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He had to grow too.
33:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Because this is not to infer that I had, like I lived the perfect life, I know means.
33:42
[SPEAKER_03]: But I had to become too.
33:44
[SPEAKER_03]: There were some spaces in my life where I wasn't necessarily as upright as I need to be.
33:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Not living in sin, just not as holy as I need to be.
33:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I think all of us have had that space.
33:55
[SPEAKER_03]: We ain't sitting, but we also ain't living as right as we should.
33:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to make those adjustments.
34:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to reframe my thinking as a father.
34:03
[SPEAKER_03]: At this point, my daughter was still alive in my wife's pregnant.
34:09
[SPEAKER_03]: So I had to start reframeing what it means to be a pastor and a father, because I grew up as a P.K., and I didn't know what my kids to have a similar experience that I did,
34:21
[SPEAKER_03]: The church was everything, and the family was a mistress, and it wasn't intentional, but he was just so intent on his call that we often kind of had to take a back seat at times.
34:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And he would try to make up for when he could, but that was kind of like the vibe that he had, it's like, I'm all for God and y'all are coming with me.
34:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't want to have that experience with my wife and with my kids.
34:45
[SPEAKER_03]: So I went in telling the church of front.
34:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hey, if I got to make a decision between y'all and my family, it's going to be them every time.
34:53
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
34:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Church is always going to take a back seat to my family, because the first ministry that God has called us to is family.
34:58
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
34:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Like in Genesis 1, you know, be fruitful in the multiply is a dumb is a command to take care of family.
35:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, indeed.
35:06
[SPEAKER_03]: To do what you're supposed to do with regard to your household.
35:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And in the Bobbi even says that if you don't root your household, you're not, you're not, it's not worth being a leader of people if you don't root your household.
35:17
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, it was understanding my framework as a man, not just a man of God, as a man.
35:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to make sure that I made the proper adjustments to protect and insulate my family from what I was becoming.
35:31
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
35:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Because my becoming a pastor put my kids at risk.
35:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is that a risk for the children?
35:38
[SPEAKER_03]: because pastoring you past are people and people, what would they want?
35:44
[SPEAKER_03]: They do what they want to do.
35:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And oftentimes, they're not necessarily as concerned about the well-being of your, you and your family as they should be.
35:51
[SPEAKER_03]: They grow to that.
35:53
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's almost always an entity in the church that has some kind of nefarious,
35:58
[SPEAKER_03]: ideology about what the pastor suppose to be, how the pastor suppose to do what they're supposed to do with regard to them.
36:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Because my dad came from a generation where the pastor was all.
36:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I try to disobuse people of that.
36:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, my job is not to be the mediator between you and and God.
36:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Jesus did that.
36:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
36:19
[SPEAKER_03]: That ain't my job.
36:19
[SPEAKER_03]: My job is to get you close to the Jesus.
36:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
36:22
[SPEAKER_03]: My job ain't to ain't to be the intermediary between you and God.
36:26
[SPEAKER_03]: You have your own relationship with God.
36:27
[SPEAKER_03]: The middle wall of partition, the veil is torn.
36:30
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't need me to be Aaron for you.
36:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going on a day at home with fear and trembling, you know, afraid that I'm going die if I don't get it right.
36:39
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not my job as a pastor.
36:41
[SPEAKER_03]: My job as a pastor is to bolster, is to either introduce you to God or bolster your relationship with God.
36:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But my job is not to be the intermediary between you and God.
36:52
[SPEAKER_03]: My job is to tell you, according to John, you can boldly go to the throne of grace.
36:57
[SPEAKER_03]: You can do that.
36:58
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't need me to do that.
36:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And I had, and so, reframing people's minds was also protecting my family from what I dealt with when I was a P.K.
37:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Got it.
37:09
[SPEAKER_05]: You share it when your daughter was alive.
37:13
[SPEAKER_05]: It was at your oldest daughter.
37:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
37:15
[SPEAKER_03]: My daughter's in a lot.
37:16
[SPEAKER_05]: You're doing a lot.
37:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
37:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
37:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Cool.
37:18
[SPEAKER_05]: So when you, so when, so, so just going back.
37:21
[SPEAKER_05]: So you protect your family.
37:23
[SPEAKER_05]: You do what you're supposed to do.
37:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that something that all pastors have to fight with.
37:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I was just talking to Bishop Walker on the out of Nashville.
37:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And he talked about when he had to bury his wife.
37:38
[SPEAKER_05]: and people were still, you know, after your day is just like, all right, time to preach a funeral.
37:42
[SPEAKER_05]: He in a preach a 735 funerals, and he had to deal with that pain every time the casket opened and closed.
37:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I feel like that is so selfish.
37:52
[SPEAKER_05]: How can people who go to church, the parishioners, and people who are, they go to church every single week, what will be honorable to a man of God?
38:04
[SPEAKER_05]: in regards to honoring them with their humanity.
38:08
[SPEAKER_05]: What does that look like?
38:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I think that part hasn't ever been taught.
38:11
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not been taught because the inference is that if you're a part of this process,
38:20
[SPEAKER_03]: then God is going to cover you through your pain.
38:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, no, God does cover you through the pain, but you gotta give me time to process that.
38:29
[SPEAKER_03]: My mom passed away in June of last year.
38:33
[SPEAKER_03]: My pastor came to church and said, he's not gonna do this, so I'm gonna do it for him.
38:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm putting him on hiatus for 30 days.
38:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So he can deal with the loss of his mother.
38:46
[SPEAKER_03]: without having to deal with y'all, because it is impossible to fully grieve as a pastor while also dealing with the rigors of people.
38:58
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost impossible.
39:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to put yourself on the back burner for the people, and the problem is grief requires.
39:07
[SPEAKER_03]: You take that time to deal with yourself, and the people are not going to assume
39:13
[SPEAKER_03]: you're not okay.
39:15
[SPEAKER_03]: If they see you, they think you're good.
39:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's because there's a mistake around pastoring that passes.
39:23
[SPEAKER_03]: You grace to do it.
39:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Hand of God is on your life so full and so on.
39:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So people assume nothing bothers you because we are forced to pick ourselves
39:37
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to train people to view you through the proper lens.
39:42
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not always easy.
39:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it requires telling them no, sometimes it requires them not getting what they want.
39:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it requires you removing yourself from a scenario.
39:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes for me, that those 30 days were absolutely necessary.
40:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I was, to be honest with you, I was going to keep going.
40:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I was planning on preaching the next Sunday.
40:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And the church, everybody, the all of the leaders, the pastoral staff, everybody had to make the adjustment.
40:12
[SPEAKER_03]: As my pastor said, he won't be here for 30 days.
40:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't expect to see him, don't call him, don't email him.
40:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And I needed that time, three months later, my wife's mom passed away.
40:25
[SPEAKER_03]: right, and to do the same thing, but this time, now I'm the one that's helping her, because I just went through what she went through with me.
40:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm walking through this process where her.
40:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now I'm protecting her from people.
40:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the people love my wife, love her.
40:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Love can be overbearing when there's no understanding.
40:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly, right?
40:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So we had to reframe people's thought process because everybody's vibe on healing or I just wanna, I wanna mourn with you.
40:59
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't always comport with what you desire, what you feel in the moment.
41:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I had somebody come to me and they just kind of stood there like,
41:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to.
41:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I don't, I don't want to do it.
41:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to do it.
41:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want that.
41:12
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
41:13
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
41:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it almost comes across like, you want me to crown your shoulder.
41:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you know.
41:17
[SPEAKER_03]: The shoulder, yo, yo, you ain't the shoulder.
41:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I want my mom.
41:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I want my mom.
41:22
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I don't have her, I'm going to crown my wife shoulder.
41:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but I don't need your shoulder.
41:26
[SPEAKER_03]: is actually doing.
41:28
[SPEAKER_05]: I totally understand December 23.
41:30
[SPEAKER_05]: My biological mother, she transitioned between me and my big brother.
41:34
[SPEAKER_05]: And that was the first time I found second time I found some attention that I didn't know.
41:42
[SPEAKER_05]: my team had to make sure.
41:44
[SPEAKER_05]: They said, well, you know, you, you showed them, you meeting her and, you know, we had six great years together, became really good in my mom and my mom or best friends.
41:53
[SPEAKER_05]: And that was the first time I was like, I'm not posting that.
41:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I don't, I don't, because because it's hour by hour, I might be okay for this hour.
42:01
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I meet you and everybody's, um, everybody's
42:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Spirit is like, man, I just know how anything I can do.
42:09
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I don't know what you can do.
42:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Just do something like what do you need.
42:13
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I don't know what I need.
42:14
[SPEAKER_05]: This is really, really weird.
42:15
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm glad that you took the time or just honored what I heard was a pastor with the pastor.
42:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, what greater humility, right?
42:23
[SPEAKER_05]: Like to have somebody that you can honor and submit to.
42:26
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think that's the really big problem in ministry because if you don't get a chance to do those 30 days, looking at the hand of God now, if you don't get a chance to do those 30 days, unknowingly, three months later, you're going to have to be the counsel that you need and without that 30 of that, what happens to the marriage when you don't know borders?
42:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, exactly.
42:46
[SPEAKER_05]: That's my wife.
42:47
[SPEAKER_05]: I should be able to because I see a lot of divorce happen right when Mama dies.
42:53
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, somebody dies and it's like oh, they don't they don't handle me correct Thank you for the humility to have a pastor
43:01
[SPEAKER_05]: because I totally understand what it's like.
43:03
[SPEAKER_05]: As I was sitting there because my brother thought it would be a great idea, or maybe I thought it was a good idea.
43:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Either way, we came up with that I would be the speaker at the funeral.
43:16
[SPEAKER_05]: I had a hard thing that I've ever had to do in my life, kept it together.
43:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Everybody had a really great time.
43:23
[SPEAKER_05]: My mom was a jovial woman.
43:25
[SPEAKER_05]: So we kept it light.
43:26
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was really, really good.
43:28
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I had to sit there and face those feelings.
43:31
[SPEAKER_05]: And I had to explore what parts of me die with her.
43:34
[SPEAKER_05]: What parts of you do you believe went on to glory with your mom?
43:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Like her laugh, my mom was always joking.
43:57
[SPEAKER_03]: People don't know how funny my parents are in general, but my mom was one of the people who was the life of the party.
44:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Even though she was 88, she was always laughing, always joking.
44:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And for us, it was kind of that.
44:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that.
44:12
[SPEAKER_03]: We lost that, or that it went on the glory worth her.
44:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we do our best to honor that, particularly the passive who she is.
44:19
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, I'm just trying to hold on to as much of it as I can.
44:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't even lie.
44:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I ain't trying to give up none of it.
44:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Are there parts that I probably think we'll ascend at some point in and we'll let go of probably right now I'm grasping it to I'm holding on to everything I can it's that's your mother you know what I mean it like you get one one and she was my biggest champion my mom would go into the stores like this one CDs was still a big yeah she was going to the stores are rearranged.
44:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's Jason and Jonathan's okay.
45:01
[SPEAKER_03]: She would take out stuff and put them in the front out of alphabetical order.
45:04
[SPEAKER_03]: She didn't care.
45:05
[SPEAKER_03]: She did it everywhere she went because that's how she was like these of my babies.
45:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's kind of a microcosm of like who she was in general with regard to her children.
45:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, you know, I'm still holding on to all of those things.
45:20
[SPEAKER_03]: I still remember all of those things.
45:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I
45:27
[SPEAKER_03]: and an intercessor and all of that stuff is still in me.
45:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like when I pray, you know, we do Fabian prayer at the church, when I when I'm doing that, she would always log in every time I do we do she would literally.
45:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So now when I do the Fabian prayers, I'm always remembered.
45:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Mom's not logged in today and it's, you know, you got to cycle through that in your emotions.
45:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And you got to do it fast because I got to our prayer.
45:53
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's something that constantly stays with me.
45:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not giving up anything.
45:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not trying to release it to that degree.
46:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to grow that have become embedded in who I am and become a better person as a result.
46:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think this grief will require even more time off to kind of discover what Jason is without
46:12
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't think so.
46:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I learned what I needed to learn at that point and one of the things that I learned is that I'm still learning.
46:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm ever a student.
46:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Grief?
46:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you ever fully stop grieving, I think you learn to adjust to what grief does.
46:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sir.
46:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And you pivot when it happens so you can keep moving.
46:36
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
46:37
[SPEAKER_05]: So as now your wife tying in and you now you both sit here without mom.
46:44
[SPEAKER_05]: What conversations do you all have to be support to each other during this very unique season?
46:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, it hasn't even been a fool year, both of you guys working through it.
46:56
[SPEAKER_05]: How does it not become a bicker fist or just paying fighting pain?
47:02
[SPEAKER_05]: How do you guys stay on one of court?
47:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, her mom lived with us.
47:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, God.
47:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
47:07
[SPEAKER_03]: So, we our relationships,
47:11
[SPEAKER_03]: we're melded into the fact that we care for her.
47:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's how we sustain each other.
47:17
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of, remember what's such a such is, we're keeping the good memories at the forefront.
47:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Our moms are not points of contention for us at all.
47:27
[SPEAKER_03]: They are points of connectivity because we see how we both gain two mothers.
47:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
47:34
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
47:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And we lost two mothers within the course of three months.
47:41
[SPEAKER_03]: the good stuff.
47:42
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't let death become the harbinger of negativity in our house, not at all.
47:50
[SPEAKER_03]: We understand that we need each other and we flow like we need each other.
47:54
[SPEAKER_03]: So we support each other when she has one of those moments.
47:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I go and I support her.
47:58
[SPEAKER_03]: When I have one of those moments, she comes and she supports me.
48:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Not as good for the man who will watch you.
48:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Men have been calling and investigating church in Jesus.
48:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Why do you think may have such a hesitation when it comes to church in worship?
48:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Because historically the church has been feminized.
48:16
[SPEAKER_03]: That's this short easy answer.
48:18
[SPEAKER_03]: We've made the church.
48:22
[SPEAKER_03]: easy for women and heart for men.
48:26
[SPEAKER_03]: The way we dress, the way we conduct our services, everything seems slanted towards a more feminine perspective.
48:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what we have to do is we have to bring men back into this understanding that
48:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And without being patriarchal or misogynistic, because that's also problematic.
48:47
[SPEAKER_03]: If you go on the other side of the spectrum, the pendulum swings kind of both ways.
48:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're trying to get people to kind of live in that centerpiece.
48:54
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're not too feminine, not too masculine, because either one can be detrimental, a deleterious.
49:00
[SPEAKER_03]: But for us at our church, we're trying to...
49:05
[SPEAKER_03]: present manhood as authentically sound when it comes to loving God.
49:11
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to give up your masculinity to love God.
49:15
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to, um,
49:18
[SPEAKER_03]: following to any kind of old-school paradigm or anything of that nature.
49:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to be as gentile as I can because I'm still passing it.
49:26
[SPEAKER_03]: But really, we try to find ways to let people know.
49:31
[SPEAKER_03]: You can authentically be who God has called you to be, without having to dilute it to fit an ideal that may not even be biblical.
49:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Can a strong man worship and what does that look like?
49:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Like this.
49:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely a strong man can work with you.
49:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I am a strong man.
49:47
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm the lead worship leader at our church.
49:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I really, yeah, I'm not talking about praise and worship.
49:54
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about, I'm the lead worshiper in our church.
49:57
[SPEAKER_03]: As a pastor of the church, my first responsibility is to model worship.
50:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Because worship is the foundational key to relationship with God.
50:07
[SPEAKER_03]: It has always been that way since the garden until today.
50:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And I try to model that as much as I can.
50:13
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, they look at me.
50:15
[SPEAKER_03]: They see a masculine real man worshiping.
50:18
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the, you know, final question?
50:21
[SPEAKER_05]: What's the one misconception that women have about men who are in ministry?
50:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm out of their context that they're all hormon girls in my mind.
50:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're gonna be some houses.
50:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're a whole, you're sleeping all the women in the church and I'm like,
50:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I know a lot of pastors who don't fall within that motif.
50:48
[SPEAKER_03]: They love their wives.
50:49
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not sleeping through the church.
50:51
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you want to, we talked about being docile and that anger part, like you don't want to see that, you want to see me mad and try to run through our church as a man.
51:02
[SPEAKER_03]: That will piss me off, like almost nothing else will.
51:06
[SPEAKER_03]: As a pastor, when the people come to the church, they become your spiritual children.
51:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
51:11
[SPEAKER_03]: To see a do running through the daughters of the church is a big no-no for me.
51:16
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
51:17
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't so and I'm model what it means to show people this is this is my wife.
51:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I talk about almost every week.
51:26
[SPEAKER_03]: because I want them to know, I'm in a happy marriage, 29 years in counting.
51:31
[SPEAKER_03]: I ain't going to wear it, she ain't going to wear it.
51:33
[SPEAKER_03]: It don't mean we don't have trouble, but we ain't going to wear it.
51:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And we try to model that.
51:39
[SPEAKER_03]: But so for me, I'm doing everything I can to try to make people see that what you think it is with regard to men and leadership is not that.
51:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I can love on you and not want you.
51:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell me a long time.
51:59
[SPEAKER_03]: I can pray for you and not what I want you.
52:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I want you at all.
52:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I love you.
52:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Come and give me a hug.
52:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
52:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going about your business.
52:05
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm about to win.
52:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm going home to her.
52:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
52:07
[SPEAKER_03]: That's who I want to be with.
52:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
52:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not trying to be with you.
52:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not interested.
52:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what you got.
52:13
[SPEAKER_05]: mentally, emotionally, physically, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally, mentally
52:36
[SPEAKER_05]: And he gave him a model, so specifically to my man who watched the show.
52:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm so grateful that the numbers I'm in are going up tremendously because you know we keep it 100th.
52:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Let out.
52:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Now there's no matter what has happened in that home, model what you talk about.
52:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Because a lot of things that you try to teach, and you like, hey man, I taught it, I taught it, the children never taught it.
52:56
[SPEAKER_05]: They can only catch what you display.
52:58
[SPEAKER_05]: So my challenge to you today is you heard a lot of what was going on,
53:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Man, I got this ministry stuff from my dad.
53:08
[SPEAKER_05]: I saying him do it.
53:09
[SPEAKER_05]: He won two different people.
53:10
[SPEAKER_05]: There was some adjustments that I had to make with the church.
53:13
[SPEAKER_05]: I ran my house, but foundationally, who my dad was.
53:17
[SPEAKER_05]: I learned it from him.
53:19
[SPEAKER_05]: When your children get older fellas, somebody's going to walk up to your daughter.
53:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Somebody's going to walk up to you, son.
53:27
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're going to say, you remind me so much to your dad.
53:33
[SPEAKER_05]: It's up to you now to find out if that's gonna be a good thing, go a bad day.
53:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Love yourself more.