Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 423: From Instagram Mysteries to Indie Horror The Bold Experiments of Joe Kowalski

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BPS 423: From Instagram Mysteries to Indie Horror The Bold Experiments of Joe Kowalski · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four twenty
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: three eight.
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  Speaker 3: Ain't over till it's over, Yogi.
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  Speaker 1: Berra broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when
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  Speaker 1: we really should be working on that next draft. It's
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  Speaker 1: the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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• 1:32
  Speaker 5: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:37
  Speaker 6: On this episode, we have a Cleveland, Ohio based filmmaker
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: who recently made I Am the Doorway, a Stephen King
• 1:42
  Speaker 6: Dollar baby short film, and he's hitting the film festival
• 1:45
  Speaker 6: circuit with another film of his called Prism, with guests
• 1:50
  Speaker 6: Joe Kowalski, No problem, and remember the first time you
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: were here, I butchered your last name and I called
• 1:57
  Speaker 6: you something completely different. I don't even remember what it was,
• 1:59
  Speaker 6: and I can compared it to a deal deseain when
• 2:01
  Speaker 6: John Travolta called you know, yeah, he called her adell.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Disease, right. I do remember this?
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I was like, what the hell happened there? I
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: was like, I knew his last name and I called
• 2:15
  Speaker 6: just something else. I was like, wait, what the hell
• 2:17
  Speaker 6: did I just do there? So I understand how John
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: Travolta feels. But since you've been on here, Joe, I
• 2:24
  Speaker 6: think you were episode eighty four. I want to say,
• 2:28
  Speaker 6: so that was actually, you know what, Joe, we're getting
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: close to over one hundred episodes ago, because I'm up
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: to like one, I'm up yeah, right, it's like one
• 2:36
  Speaker 6: sixty whatever I'm up to now, and you know, it's
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: just you know, it's almost one hundred episodes ago.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: We're like, we're like less than twenty away.
• 2:44
  Speaker 6: And so, you know, Joe, I wanted to reconnect with
• 2:47
  Speaker 6: you because you're always up to something really cool, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 6: I wanted to ask about a couple of things, you know,
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: And as we sort of get rolling on this, so
• 2:54
  Speaker 6: you know, since we've last talked, you've done one you've
• 2:58
  Speaker 6: done a Dollar Baby Stephen King short film.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 3:02
  Speaker 6: Two you've graduated from college, and three you have started
• 3:07
  Speaker 6: an Instagram murder mystery type interactive game. So I'm probably
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: missed a couple of other things. So I wanted to
• 3:14
  Speaker 6: ask about all that, all that stuff because I think
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: it's awesome, and particularly about your Stephen King short story
• 3:19
  Speaker 6: the Dollar Baby.
• 3:20
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: For those listeners I've touched on this too, I had
• 3:22
  Speaker 6: I actually got a Dollar Baby done once, and I'll
• 3:25
  Speaker 6: tell you just real quick, I don't I don't want
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: to eat up all the time Joe with talking about me.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to talk to you about your stuff.
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: But you know I I actually did the Dollar Baby too,
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: and I did in the death room. We actually shot
• 3:37
  Speaker 6: in Eastern State Penitentiary here in Philadelphia. I got us
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: a location for a pretty discounted rate. They wouldn't they.
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: They also just let us skip down on the insurance bond.
• 3:46
  Speaker 6: We actually had one, but it was it wasn't the
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: one that they usually recommend it was or asked for.
• 3:52
  Speaker 6: It was a It was a lower one that allowed
• 3:54
  Speaker 6: us to sort of, you know, make the production a
• 3:56
  Speaker 6: little cheaper. We shot for that in that in there
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: for like a day. We shot it Ridley Creek State
• 4:00
  Speaker 6: Park here right down the street from me here in
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: media and we kind of like put all this together
• 4:07
  Speaker 6: and at the end of it all the editor just
• 4:10
  Speaker 6: lost all the footage.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: And when I talked to everyone about it, they were like,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: they were like, are you going to sue that guy?
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: And I said, he's a lunatic, as I he came
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: recommended to me by somebody, right, And we we we
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: were working with him, and he just kept sitting on
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: the footage and I was like, what do you Because
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: you know what happened Joe. He had a Facebook addiction
• 4:29
  Speaker 6: and he would just scroll on Facebook rather than doing
• 4:32
  Speaker 6: it and I and I kept saying, I'm like, just
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: give me the footage back and I'll go to somewhere else. Well,
• 4:36
  Speaker 6: finally he got it together and we were gonna make
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: all these adjustments. We were so close to having the
• 4:40
  Speaker 6: final product done, and then he sends me this message
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: that his Mac was dying, and I said, look, I'll
• 4:45
  Speaker 6: help you pay for it.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: And then he he's like, oh, well.
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: I don't know what I'm gonna do about this, and
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: blah blah blah this or that, and basically that was
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: the end of it. And he said that all the
• 4:55
  Speaker 6: his Mac finally died and all the footage went with it,
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: and I couldn't get ahold of them. You know a
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: lot of crazy editors out there, So I honestly, here's
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: my advice anyone listening to this, always have a backup
• 5:07
  Speaker 6: of your footage. Because my DP just gave him. My
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: DP just gave him the actual fucking hard drive with
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: everything on it.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: And said, here you go edit the footage.
• 5:17
  Speaker 6: And I was like, dude, I go, I can't believe
• 5:19
  Speaker 6: you did that without giving it to me first and
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: letting me copy all this crap.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: But but that was my dollar baby adventure.
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: It's another horror story that I have about filmmaking, Joe.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know, somebody else put it out.
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: They're like, Dave, all your stories are all ending, like
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: heartbreak and and and and and you know, down on
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: much stuff like that. And I go, yeah, it's it's
• 5:40
  Speaker 6: the truth, man, because I have so many crazy people.
• 5:43
  Speaker 6: But uh but uh but no, but I want to
• 5:45
  Speaker 6: hear about your experience, Joe. You know, how did you
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: pick the story that you picked? You know, what story
• 5:49
  Speaker 6: did you actually pick? You know, how did you shoot
• 5:51
  Speaker 6: all this? How did you shoot everything?
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: Being as as it's you know, it's very limited to
• 5:56
  Speaker 6: being what you can do because obviously you can't get
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: investors for stuff like that, so you have to kind
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: of work in a very shoe string budget unless you
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: have a ton of money, you know what I mean.
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: But I want to hear all this about all about
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: this jokes. I'm fascinated. So what story did you pick
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: from the Dollar Baby collection.
• 6:14
  Speaker 7: And just to clarify for the audience, the Dollar Baby
• 6:17
  Speaker 7: setup is something that Stephen King has done whereby he.
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: Has a select number of his short stories.
• 6:23
  Speaker 7: A lot of older ones in the seventies and early eighties,
• 6:26
  Speaker 7: that are available to use as long as you pay
• 6:29
  Speaker 7: a dollar to him. So it's probably about maybe twenty
• 6:34
  Speaker 7: short stories on the list. And it's really cool because
• 6:38
  Speaker 7: people like me, who don't have huge budgets and stuff
• 6:42
  Speaker 7: can technically make even King film without having to pay
• 6:46
  Speaker 7: ridiculous sums of money. So I had chosen I Am
• 6:51
  Speaker 7: the Doorway. This kind of came about because the girl
• 6:56
  Speaker 7: I was dating at the time it was a huge
• 7:00
  Speaker 7: even kingfan and she had heard of this before and
• 7:03
  Speaker 7: I had heard of it before. And we were putting
• 7:08
  Speaker 7: together a film called Prism that I released last year
• 7:13
  Speaker 7: that was a half an hour film, and we were thinking, like, well,
• 7:17
  Speaker 7: half an hour's kind of short to bring in a
• 7:19
  Speaker 7: whole audience and stuff.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: So we ended up doing is.
• 7:21
  Speaker 7: We kind of made a film festival event and we
• 7:26
  Speaker 7: featured some other short films from around the world in
• 7:29
  Speaker 7: this theater in Cleveland, and I Am the Doorway, which
• 7:32
  Speaker 7: is the one we ended up going with was one
• 7:34
  Speaker 7: of those. It was kind of another way to kind
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: of make the ticket worth it for people, you know,
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: and kind of give them a full experience.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: So it was chosen by the girl that was dating
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: at the time.
• 7:50
  Speaker 7: We went through a whole bunch of them, though, and
• 7:52
  Speaker 7: we read a bunch of them, and we were trying
• 7:53
  Speaker 7: to figure out, like, what is something that.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: We could do having almost no budget.
• 7:58
  Speaker 7: And having only about a month's worth of time before
• 8:01
  Speaker 7: this big event, And what we did was choose that
• 8:07
  Speaker 7: one because a lot of what the supernaturalness, as you
• 8:11
  Speaker 7: see in a lot of Stephen King short stories, was
• 8:13
  Speaker 7: kind of taking place off screen and you were seeing
• 8:15
  Speaker 7: more of the results of what was happening, because you
• 8:18
  Speaker 7: get this astronaut who comes back to Earth and starts
• 8:22
  Speaker 7: getting these eyes that pop up on his body, and
• 8:26
  Speaker 7: we kind of created a framework story where we had
• 8:29
  Speaker 7: these two guys talking in a bar about this whole
• 8:34
  Speaker 7: situation and they kind of tie into the story. So
• 8:40
  Speaker 7: it was kind of cool doing that because typically I'm
• 8:43
  Speaker 7: used to starting stories from scratch and building upon those
• 8:47
  Speaker 7: and working upon that with friends, but it was really
• 8:50
  Speaker 7: interesting to take someone else's work, especially someone as you know,
• 8:54
  Speaker 7: prolific as Stephen King and try to adapt that to
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: like attend minute short film.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: See, I just as a filmmaker standpoint, I'm sorry, as
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: a filmmaker standpoint, I just kind of think even just
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: trying to do something like that show we have an
• 9:13
  Speaker 6: astroast come back down on Earth.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, it just sounds expensive. We're just wearing my
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: producer hat. You know. Even with doing.
• 9:22
  Speaker 6: With with Death Room, you know, I had that whole prisons,
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: you know, a location, and even just paying for that,
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: I was like, you know what they're gonna charge us.
• 9:29
  Speaker 6: You know, whatever they charged us, it was, you know,
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: I think probably a grand or something even for that day.
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: Even back then, I was like Jesus Christ a grand
• 9:36
  Speaker 6: and you know, we got to make sure everything's set and.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: Were there are so many problems that you know or
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: and ended up being my fault because I I to
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: do this. I listened to too many people, and that
• 9:57
  Speaker 6: was my fault for doing it. I've learned a lot
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: of things on each and every project. That project was
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: me listening to too many people, and I tried to
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: sort of do everything that everyone was recommending, and I
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: just I, you know, we had we had too much
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: time being wasted, and there was a lot of production
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: issues that could have been ironed out if I had
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: not listened to all those people, if you know what
• 10:19
  Speaker 6: I'm trying to say, like I am, that didn't even
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: need to be there, that we could have just went.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: We went went.
• 10:24
  Speaker 6: You know what, we don't even need this fucking thing.
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: Fuck it and let's just get rid of it, you know.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:28
  Speaker 7: And I've worked with directors who have skewed one way
• 10:31
  Speaker 7: or the other, and some of them are very well meaning,
• 10:34
  Speaker 7: but yeah, you do have some people who will literally
• 10:37
  Speaker 7: waste all the time on stuff. They see it just
• 10:39
  Speaker 7: like like a party. You know, they got all their friends.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: Together and there. I wouldn't be cool if we did
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: this and.
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: They take an hour, Oh we got to find a
• 10:47
  Speaker 7: rope and takes another hour.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: Let's let's just eat. We're gonna eat. Some people like that.
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: And then you do have the people who are like
• 10:53
  Speaker 7: so angle about trying to this is my masterpiece. You know,
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: I gotta get every single detail right now, more of
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: a tiny little smirk in that performance and stuff, and
• 11:03
  Speaker 7: so one thing that I've learned over the years and
• 11:04
  Speaker 7: I'm trying to always get better at, is finding the
• 11:06
  Speaker 7: balance between like, I want this set.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: To be enjoyable.
• 11:10
  Speaker 7: I want people to be having a good time and
• 11:12
  Speaker 7: not feel like they're miserable doing this. But at the
• 11:15
  Speaker 7: same time, we also do have to keep like a
• 11:18
  Speaker 7: tight schedule on this, and there are some things I
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: do want to be kind of specific about and that
• 11:24
  Speaker 7: I'm very certain that I went. But I also have
• 11:28
  Speaker 7: to know when it when to compromise on that, Like
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: if it's not going to work out, find it another
• 11:33
  Speaker 7: way around. If someone has a great suggestion, be willing
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: and open to all suggestions if they're going to make
• 11:38
  Speaker 7: the story better or help move things along better for everybody.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: So it is a really hard balance. It is very tough.
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: So I can understand falling into that trap entirely because
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: I've been there before.
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah it was funny too, because well funny now, but
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: it was just because you know, somebody was who's worked
• 11:58
  Speaker 6: at a at a film festival contacting me and he
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: actually was a local Philly guy and we met and
• 12:04
  Speaker 6: I'll never forget this. I forget his name, but I
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: never forget where we met. We actually met, and he
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: asked me to meet up with him at at the
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: Philly Anarchist Paper headquarters.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: And I said, first off, I didn't even know Philip.
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't even know Philadelphia had an anarchist newspaper.
• 12:21
  Speaker 6: I didn't even know an anarchist newspaper was a thing.
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: We walk in, Joe, and I'm not kidding you. There's
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: a big sign on the wall that says please no
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: drug use allowed or sorry, please do not use drugs
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: while on the premises and in parentheses, yes, this includes
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: weed in parentheses. And I and I'm just laughing, going
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: if you have to put a board up like that, Like,
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: what the fuck is going on in here?
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Man?
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I started talking to this guy.
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: And as this guy was talking and I mean, I'm
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: sure he met well, Like I'm like, first off, the
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: neighborhood was terrible. And I'm sitting there going, why the
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: hell are we even Like? Why why did I have
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: to meet for them? This is another thing, Joe that
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: always kind of like grinds my gears. People always ask
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: to meet me in person, or they want to meet
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: up for coffee or something. I go, why why don't
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: we just do a Skype message or why don't you
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: just shoot me an email?
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Why do we have to meet face to face?
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: Like I don't get it, Like, honestly, I gotta waste
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: my time, get put gas in my car, drive up
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: all the way into the city or wherever the hell
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: you are, and then then we gotta meet. And it never,
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: nothing ever gets resolved because we just go back and forth.
• 13:26
  Speaker 6: And it's the same thing with that Stephen King guy.
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: We could have done that over a Skype interview with
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: Sharon Screenshare and had the same exact thing, and we
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: both could have just been in the comfort of our
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: own homes. It's just, you know what I mean, It's
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: just I just I'm not saying I'm like gonna become
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: some obese shut in or anything like that, like the
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: mom from Gilbert Grape. But but but well I'm getting
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: there the other Joe. But but like to me, if
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: you're gonna meet somebody, you should have a clear objective
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: because everyone's you know, I'm at the point in my
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: life now where I just think time is money now
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: and I'm always you know, when I was, I mean,
• 13:59
  Speaker 6: how do you Joe twenty.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Four, I'm only twenty two I'm a baby.
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: Twenty two years young, and I'm sorry, and I'm cursing
• 14:08
  Speaker 6: up a storm at you, sir. But okay, so you're
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: twenty two, so I'm ten years older than you are.
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: And so basically I'm at the point now, Joe, where
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: like I've become like that guy I always didn't want
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: to be where I'm just like, you know, everything's.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Time is money, you know.
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: But when I was when I was your age Joe, again,
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: I'm sounding old as shit right now. When I was
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: your age show, I actually I would go out and
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: I would I would go on random film sets, I
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: would meet new people, and I would just get you
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: know what. I'm just gonna treat everything like an adventure.
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna treat everything like a learning experience, and I'm
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: just gonna go out there and I'm just gonna see
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: whatever happens. And when I made my Stephen King Dollar baby,
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: I think I was twenty four or twenty five. And
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: then I use that experience to parlay that into making
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: a TV pilot which I won't go into because you know,
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: listeners of this show know that story inside and out.
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: But with the whole uh, with that, what I did
• 15:00
  Speaker 6: there was. I was always looking at everything as like
• 15:03
  Speaker 6: a learning experience, and when when you know, meeting all
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: these different people on the course of actually making this
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: Stephen King Dollar Baby, I've met so many interesting people,
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: for both good and bad.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: But like you know, I think as a filmmaker.
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: When you're that age, you know, twenty two, twenty three,
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: twenty four, you know, you have to go out there
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: and see all these you know, make all these mistakes.
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: And then when you're like twenty eight twenty nine, that's
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: kind of like you're you're starting to be getting your prime.
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: That's the age Quentin Tarantino make Reservoir Dogs. I think
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: that was the age when when Rodriguez made Rebel without
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: a crew.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: I'm me Ella Mariacia. I'm not sure though.
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: That's the age where Damien Chase made Whiplash and I
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: you know what i mean. So I kind of look
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: at those experiences as is kind of molding me, because
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: that's that's what I'm sure.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: That's the whole point of what I'm.
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: Trying to say here is you know, and and you know,
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: treating this as knowing the when these opportunities come down,
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: knowing what is going to be a good opportunity and
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: what's going to just be a waste of your time.
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: It's almost like, you know what I mean, like when somebody,
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: like when a producer comes to you and says, hey, listen,
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: I got this. You know, a producer quote unquote comes
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: to you and says, hey, listen, Joe, I gotta I
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: got this. You know, whole whole TV pilot ready to roll.
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: I need someone to direct it. Would you want to
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: direct it? And you're, you know, at first, you're like, Okay,
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: I'll talk to you about it. And you start to
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: meet and you go, oh crap, there's so many.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Holes in this. It's unbelievable, you know what I mean.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: You start you start seeing between the lines, if you
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: know what I'm trying.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: To say, right.
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: I think a big part of it too, is that
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: I think time is the most important thing for everybody
• 16:36
  Speaker 7: on set, not just because of how the schedule is
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: and everything, but ultimately, especially on an independent film.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Uh and you don't have the ability to pay people.
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: That's the biggest thing they're giving you, and that's the
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: biggest thing they can give you is just that time
• 16:54
  Speaker 7: to be there and help make firth thing come to
• 16:58
  Speaker 7: life and so I find it so incredibly disrespectful when
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: people don't value that time and don't take into account that,
• 17:07
  Speaker 7: you know, these people don't have to be there. They're
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: not they're not being paid to be there anything. They
• 17:12
  Speaker 7: don't have any obligation to you other than the sense
• 17:14
  Speaker 7: that maybe they care about this project too, or maybe
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: they want.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: To see you succeed.
• 17:19
  Speaker 7: So I definitely know what you mean when it comes
• 17:21
  Speaker 7: to a lot of the points that you've made, and
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: I just I try to respect that time and I
• 17:28
  Speaker 7: want people to get a full experience out of it. So,
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: like I said, when I was trying to put together
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: this festival event, I wanted to make sure that if
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: people were going to come, and we didn't have a
• 17:38
  Speaker 7: set price, but we just were kind of taking donations
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: in general, if people are going to come and donate money,
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: I want them to come out seeing like an hour
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: and fifteen minutes of really top notch short films. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: it's tough when you have friends that come up and say, hey,
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: can you include my film in this, and I go,
• 17:55
  Speaker 7: I don't think I can. It doesn't quite meet the
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: expectations of what we're trying to do with this.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: It's tough to be able to do that and to
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: be able to say, like.
• 18:03
  Speaker 7: You know, and I I think you worked hard in this,
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: but you know, deep down you know that it's not
• 18:09
  Speaker 7: quite the quality that you want. And it's a hard
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: thing to do that because you want to make everyone happen,
• 18:14
  Speaker 7: you want to have all those contexts. But you're right,
• 18:16
  Speaker 7: you do have to start getting more selective about how
• 18:18
  Speaker 7: you spend your time and what you choose to work on.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, somebody once told me, Joe that life
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: is all about creating a bubble around yourself and you
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: and you start to understand what you like and don't
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: like inside of that bubble, and anything and everybody that's
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: not within that confines.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: You push out of that bubble. And basically that's you
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: know what I mean.
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: And I started to realize that over the years and
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: when I when I meet people and it's just like, hey,
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: you know, because I do this podcast, and I'll get
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: an email probably maybe once, I don't know, maybe once
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: a week saying hey Dave, would you ever you know,
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: if you're ever up in New Jersey or in New York,
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: or you want to come in Philly or whatever, why
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: don't you come and we'll have coffee or whatever.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: I go, you know what, I just.
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: Don't know why, Like you know what I mean, Like
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: I don't want to sell like a jerk. I don't
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: want to sell like a jerk. I really don't, Like
• 19:08
  Speaker 6: I don't want to be like, oh I'm Dave Bulls.
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: But no, I'm just like, you know, why would you
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: want to talk to me?
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: Like what? You know what I mean?
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: And it's just like I want I want to make
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: sure that we're each getting something out of it, and
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: it's not just going to be you know, turning to
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: a pitch meeting, which, by the.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: Way, Joe has happened.
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: I've had people meet me and they go they're just
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: like hey, yeah, and there's like, hey, Dave, you know,
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: would you want to join this project?
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: And I go no, like when they he was art
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: broke and he goes and he looks at me and
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: he goes, why not? And I go, well, uh, it's
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: and it's like you.
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: Were just saying, you you you you try to you know,
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: you want to see people succeed, but you just want
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: to you know, you want to say, well, it's it's
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: because it's not going to work. Dude, there's so many
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: holes in this in in production, like, hey, can we
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: can we shoot a I You and I talked about
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: this before, by shooting period pieces on a budget.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: Like, hey, I want to shoot a civil war I
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: want to shoot a civil war period piece.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: With five hundred bucks. Oh okay, good luck. You know
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean?
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, And you get the you get a lot
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: of that too, and and you know what if if
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: they do have a substantial amount of money, then those
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: things are realistic. But otherwise that's a big part of
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: it too, is knowing what realistically can accomplish. And that's
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: something I always try to take into mind when I
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: when I write the projects that I do, is I
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: know the resources I have to work with primarily, I
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: know the people I have to work with primarily, and
• 20:47
  Speaker 7: and be smart about how you do it, because people
• 20:50
  Speaker 7: will be so much more impressed if you make a
• 20:52
  Speaker 7: really good film within your limits than if you try
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: to reach too far. And that doesn't say you don't
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: that doesn't mean you shouldn't challenge yourself, and that doesn't
• 21:00
  Speaker 7: mean that you know you might throw in something that
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: might that might be a little more expensive, it might
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: be a little bit more complicated that you're gonna have
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: to figure out. You got to give yourself those challenges.
• 21:09
  Speaker 7: But at the same time, don't, like you said, try
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: to make like a period piece of like this crazy
• 21:14
  Speaker 7: futuristic sci fi when you know that realistically, if you
• 21:17
  Speaker 7: try to do that, you're only gonna get like twenty
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: percent of the way there, and people are just going
• 21:22
  Speaker 7: to see it as a little silly.
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's just gonna be you know, if you
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: want to do yeah, do all that stuff, and you know, hey,
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: do you have somebody that knows or rents period piece costumes?
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: Because five you know, even if I bumped up to
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: five thousand dollars budget, like, you're gonna eat through that
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: in no time, just to just to setting up the world.
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: And it is gonna you're right, it's gonna end up
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: looking just silly, you know. And it's just gonna end
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: up looking just look crazy. I'll give you another example
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: and then and then we'll get back to what you
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: were talking about.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: And I don't want to take this again. I don't
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: want to. I wanted to talk about your stuff.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: But like, you know, I had a guy before come
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: to me and he wanted to shoot a zombie film
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: for like, I think he said, like five hundred bucks.
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: And I said, you know, it's possible, because I said,
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: if you look at Colin.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: And I actually had the director and writer Mark V.
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: Prince on this podcast and we talked about how he
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: did it for fifty bucks or it really did? He
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: shot it for fifty bucks, shot a full length zombie
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: feature called Colin, which is actually really freaking cool. And
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: basically with Colin, it's a he get this guy gets
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: bit by zombie in the beginning of the film and
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: he becomes a zombie and for the rest of the film,
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: you follow this shambling zombie throughout the rest of the film.
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: It's actually really cool and and in fact, the fact
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: that he shot it, yeah, honestly, it was a phenomenal idea.
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: And the fact that he got it did it for
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: fifty bucks makes even better because I told him, I said, Mark,
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: if you had shot this for like, let's just say
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: somebody gave you a million dollars, I said, you would
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: have shot yourself in the foot. And you know what
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: I mean, because you would have been like, holy shit,
• 22:53
  Speaker 6: now we can have a building explode, you know what
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: I mean. And I think that's sometimes you know, as
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: again we were talking about you know, you gotta weigh
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: your opportunities. But Mark, you know, he was able to
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: do whatever he wanted because he you know, obviously fifty
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: bucks is fifty bucks. But but anyways, but you know,
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: as we talk about that, that guy was talking about
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: the zombie feature.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: He wanted to shoot it for five hundred bucks.
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: And he basically was was like real adamant about shooting
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: this thing, and Joe, I am not getting around with you.
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: He wanted to shoot it at three o'clock in the morning.
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: He wanted to shoot this one scene at three o'clock
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: in the morning. And I'm looking on Google Maps and
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: I said, what's this building right across the street from
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: where we're going to film? He goes, oh, that's the
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: police station. I said, are we gonna have permits? He goes, no, No,
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: this's all going to be gorilla stuff. I said, So
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: we're gonna shoot right across from the police station with
• 23:41
  Speaker 6: the army of zombies, and you don't think anyone's going
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: to say anything?
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: And he looks at me, and he goes, no, do
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: you think they will?
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: I go, yeah, dude, I think the police are going
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: to look out their window and go, hey, here's somebody
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: filming without a permit.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh boy.
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: So yeah, it's stuff like that, man. But you know,
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: as we go back to talking about your stuff, Joe,
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: so what were some of the biggest production issues you
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: had while making your Dollar Baby?
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, did you know, did you start a crowdfund
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: a campaign for it?
• 24:10
  Speaker 7: Uh? No, Like I said, this was kind of more
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: of a side thing that we could show off for
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: the festival. So we actually shot pretty much most of
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: it all in one weekend, and one of the locations
• 24:24
  Speaker 7: was a restaurant that I do some media work for
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: that I got permission, and then we filmed at a
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: beach that was public, you know, just public property. And yeah,
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: it was just a lot of like again, like using
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: your resources and saying here, I have this, so why
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: don't I know this in here? You know, and working
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: with it and making it work within the stories context.
• 24:49
  Speaker 7: A far bigger project was the film Prism that I
• 24:54
  Speaker 7: that I mentioned that we were kind of showcasing around
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: this whole festival event, and that was that film basically
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: took a year from the first first typing it to
• 25:08
  Speaker 7: actually showing it off. And I can talk a little
• 25:11
  Speaker 7: bit about that if you'd like me too it all.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: Basically the movie is about six people from two different families,
• 25:23
  Speaker 7: and each character is represented by a separate color. So
• 25:28
  Speaker 7: while the most of the film you see is in
• 25:30
  Speaker 7: black and white, when that character is on screen, you
• 25:33
  Speaker 7: see their color pop out of the black and white.
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: So like if you remember, like in Schindler's List, there's
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: like the girl red dress, and.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: That photo effect comes up a lot.
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: You know, you see like yellow highlights come out of
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: a you know, a picture of somebody or something like that.
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: We basically did that with the whole movie. So like
• 25:52
  Speaker 7: when our character Green was on screen, his shirt would
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: come out because he was wearing green, but also the
• 25:58
  Speaker 7: trees in the background you would see them. And that
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: was a very interesting challenge from a storytelling standpoint, from
• 26:04
  Speaker 7: a technical standpoint because all that I think, if you're
• 26:10
  Speaker 7: going to do something like that, each of the collies
• 26:11
  Speaker 7: have to have a meaning to them. So that was
• 26:13
  Speaker 7: something we were very certain about. And also the story
• 26:16
  Speaker 7: kind of weaves in and out of these characters' lives
• 26:18
  Speaker 7: and how they relate to each other, and this person's
• 26:20
  Speaker 7: cheating on this person, and this person's has a crush
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: on this person. And one thing I really had to
• 26:27
  Speaker 7: learn from this film was really to just outline everything,
• 26:33
  Speaker 7: and that's not something I'm very used to doing. I
• 26:35
  Speaker 7: kind of like diving in and then just seeing where
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: it goes. And sometimes that works, but it's a lot
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: of work after the fact to try to make that
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: into something cohesive. But particularly in relation to the families,
• 26:47
  Speaker 7: we had to like sit down and write out a
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: family tree and figure out the relation of each character
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: to the other, and that was something that was kind
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: of difficult because then we would say, well, this doesn't
• 26:59
  Speaker 7: really work. This character would an interact with this person.
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: It was a very unusual process for this whole movie,
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: and we aren't really able to show it off yet
• 27:08
  Speaker 7: because we're trying to get in some film festivals. I mean,
• 27:11
  Speaker 7: we haven't had any luck yet, but we're going to
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: keep trying. But the trailer is online if anyone wants
• 27:18
  Speaker 7: to check it out. If you look up like Prism
• 27:21
  Speaker 7: twenty sixteen or Prism Short Film twenty sixteen, or even
• 27:23
  Speaker 7: on my channel.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: Pog Joe and that's p O. G. I E. Joe.
• 27:29
  Speaker 7: There's a couple of trailers on there, so you can
• 27:31
  Speaker 7: kind of get an idea of what I'm talking about
• 27:32
  Speaker 7: with this color thing.
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: You know, Joe, I actually have some film festivals I
• 27:39
  Speaker 6: would recommend that you entered into. Number one being the
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: Delco Film Festival. I think they that would be a
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: good film festival for you to enter it into. That's
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: actually right by my house as well. But if you like,
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: I can actually introduce you. I can actually introduce you
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: to the guy who runs it.
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: Oh that would be amazing.
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: And you know, if I was ever in that area,
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: we could meet up and have some coffee and I
• 28:00
  Speaker 7: have this great pitch I want to sell you.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: No go, Joe, No way, no, No, I'm just kidding.
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I would see, like like somebody that I've
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: actually met and talked to, I would be down for that.
• 28:15
  Speaker 6: And you know the funny the founder is Chris Piermenico,
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: and he's actually been on the podcast before and uh,
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: Chris is Chris is a very good guy. And before
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: we got on the podcast, he said to me, He's like,
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: please try not to curse too much because I'm going
• 28:29
  Speaker 6: to recommend this to my students and don't tell any
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: weird stories. And I go, that's all I have in
• 28:34
  Speaker 6: life is weird stories and cursing.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: That's it. That's you take that away from me.
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: I'm not I'm nothing anymore, right, But yeah, I'll.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Exactly, I'm just like a shell of a man.
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: I'm not even I'm not even my George Costanza self,
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: but I will introduce you to him and I right
• 28:51
  Speaker 6: this podcast, and I'm sure Chris would love to talk
• 28:53
  Speaker 6: to you about having that film there. And you know,
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: so as you made You Know Your Dollar Baby too,
• 28:58
  Speaker 6: because I'll link to everything in the show notes as well.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Everybody.
• 29:01
  Speaker 6: I'll link to the Delco Film Festival and every and
• 29:03
  Speaker 6: Joe's channel and everything else. But when when you're talking
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: about you Know Your Dollar Baby and you actually just
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: you shot it into a weekend, did you have any
• 29:10
  Speaker 6: like real huge production issues come up that that like
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: anything that we were talking about, or anything like completely unexpected, like, hey,
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: it rained on a Sunday when we thought it was
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: going to be clear skies anything like that.
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: Actually, that was surprisingly straightforward.
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: We were actually kind of marveling that it came out
• 29:28
  Speaker 7: as well as it did. And the nice part about
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: it is that the people we cast in it were
• 29:33
  Speaker 7: people that we were considering for the other film Prism
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: that were really good, but they just didn't quite fit
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: the parts we were looking for, So were like, what's
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: the capacity that we can use these people? So we
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: were able to get four of these actors who were really,
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: really good that I still wanted to work with into
• 29:48
  Speaker 7: this film and you know, get to spend a couple
• 29:51
  Speaker 7: of days filming with them.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: And the thing about that, it was just basically a
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: skeleton crew of me, my and my girlfriend at the time,
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: and so I guess we didn't really have to worry
• 30:15
  Speaker 7: too much about other cast and crew members. It wasn't
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: like the other film where we had like a full
• 30:20
  Speaker 7: cast and everything. It was kind of just us just
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: going at it, and it was it was almost a
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: fun relief side project after having that massive project, like
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: I said, kind of churning into that for a year.
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: So actually, I'm really really glad I did the Dollar
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: Baby because it was just such a nice, like, un.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: What's the word I'm looking for. It wasn't It wasn't
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: a high level stress thing.
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: It was something that we planned out and really just
• 30:49
  Speaker 7: kind of had fun doing.
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: And you know that's something too, you know, I talked
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: to Alex Ferrari about of any film hustle, and we
• 30:59
  Speaker 6: were talking about that as well, where you know, at
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: some points, I mean, you you and and it's good
• 31:03
  Speaker 6: that you learned at the age of twenty two. Sometimes
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: when you're making something, you just get this obsession with it,
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: like everything has to be perfect, and then you start,
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: you know, and everything, the stress starts to get on you.
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: And then by the end of it, you're like, I
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: just can't wait to get this thing done and I'll.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: Never talk about it again.
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: And you're like, and honestly, that's what happened to me
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: and my short, my student film. I I by the end,
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: Joe I was like, I just want to get these
• 31:28
  Speaker 6: last shots I'm gonna do. The last day I was
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: doing my short, my student film, I actually said I
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: to everybody, I said, We're doing one take of everything.
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: That's it, and then I'm and then we're just gonna
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: call it a day, and and everybody was just burned
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: out from it. So we ended up doing more than
• 31:43
  Speaker 6: one take on a lot of stuff, but still it
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: ended up and we're like, look, that's it, We're done,
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: and I don't want to talk about this every again,
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: but uh, it's you know, and then you want to
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: do something fun where you just can have fun while
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: you're actually shooting, because you know, at the end of
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: the day, this is supposed to be fun, right, yeah.
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And that's why I think you really, you really
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: have to care about the story you're telling with a big,
• 32:02
  Speaker 7: long term production, because it is very easy to get
• 32:07
  Speaker 7: tired of it. But you have to know deep down
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: that when you finish it, it's going to be so
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: rewarding because it's a story you really care about, and
• 32:13
  Speaker 7: in a way, you never quite leave it because even
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: after you show it, at least in my case, we
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: did like crowdfunding, so you still have to.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: Go in and you know, make the.
• 32:22
  Speaker 7: DVDs and the Blu rays and the bonus material, and
• 32:26
  Speaker 7: you still have to promote it for film festivals if
• 32:28
  Speaker 7: you're trying to get into that whole realm, and and
• 32:32
  Speaker 7: then you have to try to get the movie to
• 32:34
  Speaker 7: various people and who didn't get a chance to see it,
• 32:37
  Speaker 7: and you forever are always kind of attached to it
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: and pushing it and trying to get it out to people.
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: So that's the thing I think that's really important, and
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: that's why I try to come up with good stories
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: that are that I can care about even when I
• 32:56
  Speaker 7: don't feel like caring about them.
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it is, you know, and when you're trying to have,
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: you know, just a good time with this stuff, and
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: you know, you want to be able to see, you know,
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: you have fun while you're making it, and then you
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: see up on the screen and that's something everyone can
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: be proud of. And you be cause you know, you
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: all did your best and you it's that feeling you get,
• 33:16
  Speaker 6: you know, Okay, we've you know, it was it was
• 33:17
  Speaker 6: a little tough, it was a little frustrating. We're all tired,
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: but we all did our best. And now the proofs
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: in the pudding. Now it's all up up on uh
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: up on screen there, and you know, some days you
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: watch it and you're like, oh, man, there's a mistake.
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: There's another mistake. Yeah, and you know and sort of
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: you know that, you know what I mean like that
• 33:33
  Speaker 6: that that sort of seeps in after a while too.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: But you know, at the end of the day.
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: I think some of the best filmmaking advice is by
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: Mark Duplas, where he said, literally every weekend, go out
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: and for a hundred bucks make a short film with
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: your friends. He said, don't spend more than a hundred bucks,
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: and it'll teach you more about filmmaking than than than
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: anything else could, because you're actually out there doing it,
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: and you're actually out there actually making stuff, and you
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: can you know, and if you don't, and honestly, if
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: it sucks, hey we spend one hundred bucks.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: If it's good, you put up on YouTube.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:06
  Speaker 7: And that's one thing I'm really grateful for with things
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: like YouTube is because since I've been doing it for
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: seven years now fairly regularly, it is that kind of
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: experience where I always I am trying new things and
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: making cool.
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: Stuff with friends.
• 34:24
  Speaker 7: And you're right, like, you know, even if you're not
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: even spending that much money, you're still getting the experience.
• 34:29
  Speaker 7: So you're you're making something that can be a sort
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: of time capsule. Like I remember when I was hanging
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: out with that friend in Cleveland, you know, years later,
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: and I think, honestly, I think that's how I got
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: to where I am. And it's not like I'm not
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: trying to brag or anything. I'm not saying that I'm
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: like at the top of the top or anything like that.
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: But I think I've done more than a lot of
• 34:52
  Speaker 7: peers my age because of that experience and because I've
• 34:56
  Speaker 7: always been interested in creating things and I can't stop.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, you know.
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: And you know, I think artists more than anybody else obviously,
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: because they have this desire to create. It's like this desire,
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: this innate desire you're kind of born with and you
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: have this desire to create, and sometimes you're when you're younger,
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: you don't really know.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: What it is.
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: You just kind of do it, you know what I mean,
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: whether it be like an arts and crafts or something
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: like that. And then some people pick up a video
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: camera if they're if they're you know, if they that's
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: what they're if their adolescence is filled with if their
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: parents had a video camera, and you you sort of
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: you know, you start doing all this stuff, and I mean,
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: you know, because you're born with this life and it's
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: almost like this feeling of we have to create something
• 35:43
  Speaker 6: of value at all times. And it's something I feel
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: too and it's almost like this feeling of Okay, I'm here,
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: now what should I do? Well, you know, and if
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: you're an artist, you say, well, I'm going to create
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: some more. And I have this desire to create. And
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: you know, maybe other people are like chefs and they
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: just want to make make food, and that's that's desire
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: to create. You know, when we start putting all these
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: projects out there, and you know, you've been on YouTube
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: for seven years, and I think that's phenomenal. Honestly, Joe,
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: I hope you keep doing it because honestly, you know
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: you're you're obviously I know you're getting better.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: You're getting better and better and better.
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: And also because I just think it's a great outlet too,
• 36:21
  Speaker 6: because again, like we were just saying, if you make
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: a film for one hundred bucks and if you don't
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: like it at the end of the day, hey, look
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: I spend one hundred bucks. But if you do like it,
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: hey put it on up on YouTube and who knows
• 36:30
  Speaker 6: what could happen?
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And.
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: There's there's I think there's a lot of marriage that
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: we were saying about having those those projects that are just.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: Something fun and one thing for me too.
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: Besides just the YouTube stuff, is also our podcast, which
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: which you've actually been on once before, and.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: We're not that's right, Yeah I have.
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we're not as far along as you are, but
• 36:56
  Speaker 7: we're getting pretty close to seventy episodes. And that's like
• 37:01
  Speaker 7: a fun thing where like just me and a few
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: of my friends can get together once a week and
• 37:06
  Speaker 7: just have a good time. And it's not something you know,
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: I'll have it edited in a couple hours and you
• 37:11
  Speaker 7: still have to post it and promote it a little bit.
• 37:13
  Speaker 7: It sponsors occasionally and stuff like that, but at the
• 37:16
  Speaker 7: same time, when we're just sitting there recording it, it's
• 37:19
  Speaker 7: just an hour where we can just just have a
• 37:22
  Speaker 7: good time and talk, whether it be about deep things
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: or maybe it's just goofy, light hearted stuff. But that's
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: been a really cool project to collaborate with my friends
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: on because it is that little kind of low stress
• 37:38
  Speaker 7: relieving kind of project.
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's you know, the podcast is fun. You know,
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: that's why I do my podcast. I actually made a
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: promise to myself. I said, the day itself's becoming fun,
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: i'm gonna stop doing it. I've broken that promise a
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: few times, but you know, I was listening. I was
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: listening to Tim Ferris one time, and he said the
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: whole idea, the whole conceptly his podcast was. He goes,
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: I just want to edit it myself, but I want
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: to make editing no more than ten minutes.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: He goes.
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: If I had to sit here and edit out stuff,
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: he goes, I hate doing that. He goes, I think
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: it's pointless. He goes, I just want to have a
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: conversation and put it up online. And I mean, look
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: at his fan base. It's unfreaking believable. And you know,
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: that's kind of like what I wanted to was, you know,
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: just having not having to sit here for you know,
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: four hours a night, going, okay, let me edit this
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: podcast and do all this stuff. I mean, I do
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: do some editing to it, but I try to keep
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: it as pure with the conversation as possible. Most of
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: my editing involves like I'm gonna boost your maybe i'll
• 38:37
  Speaker 6: boost your audio a little bit, or maybe i'll put
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: it like a deh hissser effect in there, just to
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: sort of take out any sort of like that static
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: noise or de hummer something like that, you know. But yeah,
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: I mean, a podcast is a really cool way just
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: to sort of you know, just a it's another form
• 38:53
  Speaker 6: of media. And because the the the gatekeepers are all
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: non existent, because I mean literally, you can create a
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: podcast with your phone now and upload it to like
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: something like Podbean.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: Absolutely, And I already had all the equipment I needed
• 39:06
  Speaker 7: to make something like this, because I already have a
• 39:11
  Speaker 7: bunch of audio and video equipment from doing all the
• 39:14
  Speaker 7: other work that I do. So it wasn't like I
• 39:16
  Speaker 7: needed to go out and get some stuff. I mean,
• 39:19
  Speaker 7: eventually we did get like a nicer microphone, and you know,
• 39:22
  Speaker 7: we'd like to eventually save up to do more live
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: shows to kind of have the equipment to do that.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: But I mean most of the.
• 39:29
  Speaker 7: Stuff was already there. Only needed was each other and
• 39:33
  Speaker 7: an idea. So I totally see the appeal. And while
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: I edit it in like ten minutes, I do take
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: out some things, and you know, we bleep out a
• 39:43
  Speaker 7: couple words and stuff like that.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: For the most part, it's it is a pretty low
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: stress project compared to a lot of other things that
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to do.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: and now to the show.
• 40:03
  Speaker 6: And you know, actually it's something else I want to
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: talk about too, is you know, what else are you
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: are you trying to do? Because I know you did
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: the Instagram Murder Mystery game, So I want to hear
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: about this because you know, I purposely don't know anything
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: about it. Maybe I wanted to actually talk to you
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: about it. So like, what is is it like a game?
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: It's a game that anybody can play, right, yeah.
• 40:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah, as long as you have an Instagram account, you
• 40:22
  Speaker 7: should be able to play it. And this is actually
• 40:26
  Speaker 7: I was trying to make a capstone for an interactive
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: media class that I was taking before I graduated this
• 40:33
  Speaker 7: past semester, and you know a lot of people were
• 40:36
  Speaker 7: doing a lot of cool stuff with like VR and
• 40:39
  Speaker 7: with like some interactive videos. But I was trying to
• 40:43
  Speaker 7: think of something that I hadn't tried before because I
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: had done a little bit of both those things. And
• 40:50
  Speaker 7: I was thinking a lot about how people use Instagram sometimes.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: To create these picture grids of sorts.
• 40:56
  Speaker 7: You know, if you upload the pictures in the right order,
• 40:58
  Speaker 7: all of a sudden, if you go to that person page,
• 41:01
  Speaker 7: you know, one big picture can be made out of
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: like nine pictures. And I just thought that was really cool.
• 41:08
  Speaker 7: So I was wondering, like could you do something with that,
• 41:10
  Speaker 7: Like how do you how do you make something that
• 41:13
  Speaker 7: feels self contained, you know, not like it's like like
• 41:17
  Speaker 7: it's like you're inside this little experience through Instagram. And
• 41:22
  Speaker 7: so what I did is I used those kind of
• 41:26
  Speaker 7: picture grids and I use the tagging system whereas like
• 41:30
  Speaker 7: if you if you tap on a picture, it will
• 41:33
  Speaker 7: come up with like a tag in that person's account.
• 41:37
  Speaker 7: So I between those two features. Again, Instagram isn't designed
• 41:40
  Speaker 7: for something like this, but I kind of yeah, created
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: a game of sorts, and if you go to the
• 41:45
  Speaker 7: account Murder Mystery Game all one word, people can check
• 41:49
  Speaker 7: that out. I mean you start out with like a
• 41:51
  Speaker 7: map of Cleveland, and then if you go to the
• 41:53
  Speaker 7: individual pictures, there are those tags where you can go
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: to other parts of Cleveland and look for clue, and
• 42:00
  Speaker 7: then you get the testimony from all these different characters.
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: And if you tap on more of the pictures within
• 42:05
  Speaker 7: those accounts, you can sometimes see these fake characters' accounts
• 42:11
  Speaker 7: and just little clues that are hidden throughout. And like
• 42:15
  Speaker 7: I said, the whole idea is that you're trying to
• 42:17
  Speaker 7: solve this this murder mystery of this girl who was killed.
• 42:21
  Speaker 7: So it was a very unusual project because it's not
• 42:25
  Speaker 7: a linear thing where you just set out like, Okay,
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: I have this scene and I have this scene. But
• 42:29
  Speaker 7: at the same time, I was utilizing a lot of
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: the things I had learned from doing video and filmmaking
• 42:35
  Speaker 7: and stuff like that, Whereas you know, if you set
• 42:37
  Speaker 7: up a schedule, I'm meeting with this person at this time,
• 42:39
  Speaker 7: we're gonna record video of them, we're gonna stage a
• 42:42
  Speaker 7: bunch of pictures with them, and then later on we're
• 42:44
  Speaker 7: moving to this person. And planning it out like that
• 42:48
  Speaker 7: made it a much less scarier process because I got
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: way in over my head. One of the things I faced, too,
• 42:54
  Speaker 7: was that for every new Instagram account, you have to
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: have an email address attached to it. So I was
• 43:01
  Speaker 7: just making all these like Gmail accounts that we're associating
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: with all the different accounts. But then Gmail is like, hey,
• 43:09
  Speaker 7: you can't make that many accounts, and I was like okay,
• 43:13
  Speaker 7: So they went to Yeahoo, and I started making all
• 43:15
  Speaker 7: these big yeah who accounts to try to make more
• 43:17
  Speaker 7: Instagram accounts, and yeah Who was like, hey, you can't
• 43:20
  Speaker 7: make that many yeah Who accounts. So I ended up
• 43:23
  Speaker 7: going to like seven different email servers to try to
• 43:28
  Speaker 7: create all these fake email accounts I could make all
• 43:30
  Speaker 7: these different Instagram accounts, which is just yet another way
• 43:33
  Speaker 7: that proves that Instagram wasn't really designed to work like that.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: You know, yeah, definitely.
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: You know, Instagram is is cool at all, but there's
• 43:45
  Speaker 6: a lot of things that are like limiting with it.
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: I know they want to make like, for instance, the
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: mobile uploading. You know, I tried to like post things.
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: I can post things to my desktop, but you know
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: what I mean, And sometimes they make it so difficult
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: to just post, you know, stuff like that, because I hey,
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: I want to take a photo and I want to
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: do some stuff to it then put it to Instagram.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean. Yeah, and again I understand
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: completely were you Oh no, that was real.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, it's a little bit of a lag because
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: that's that leads to some of it.
• 44:15
  Speaker 7: I was just gonna say, I did run into that
• 44:17
  Speaker 7: problem a lot too, especially given that I have a
• 44:19
  Speaker 7: very cheap phone that doesn't have a whole lot of memory.
• 44:22
  Speaker 7: So anytime I had to like download all of these
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: pictures or god forbid, when I had to download the
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: actual video clips. It would take up so much room
• 44:30
  Speaker 7: on my phone that I would have to like delead
• 44:32
  Speaker 7: a bunch of apps on my phone, download the pictures
• 44:36
  Speaker 7: and footage, upload them to this Instagram account, and then
• 44:39
  Speaker 7: re download my apps again.
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's uh. I mean, I know there was a
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: slight lag on your side. I don't know, you know,
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: I think it might be uh just our our recording
• 44:54
  Speaker 6: host Skype, but but uh with your phone and you
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: had to do backup all that stuff.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: I've been there before.
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: I used to have, Like I bought one the one
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: I bought, one of the smart first smartphones that came
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: out called the LG Revolution Joe. It was one of
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: the worst freaking friends I've ever had. It was so
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: I bought it in the two thousand and six or seven.
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: It was little, literally garbage, and I kept having to
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: like back up on every everything else. I would try to,
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: you know, it was so I've been there, man, but
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: but no, I So it's so so if somebody wanted
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: to like solve the murder mystery Joe, so if I
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: had an Instagram account, let's just say right now, I
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: say I want to check out Joe's murder mystery game.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: I went to that inta I have an Instagram account.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: I went to your Instagram account.
• 45:35
  Speaker 6: So we're how do I how would I go about
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: like solving my first clue to see you know, to
• 45:40
  Speaker 6: seeing who you know? Obviously we find out who was murdered.
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: How do we go about, you know, sort of doing this.
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: Do you provide any clues or are they supposed to
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: sort of have to solve it themselves.
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's very much on the on the user's own
• 45:53
  Speaker 7: volition that they have to find the clues. But there
• 45:56
  Speaker 7: are a lot of clues sprinkled throughout, but there are
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: a lot of red herrings out and dead end And
• 46:03
  Speaker 7: basically when most of the accounts start with murder mystery
• 46:07
  Speaker 7: and then end with a word, So like when you're
• 46:09
  Speaker 7: at the beach, it's murder mystery Beach, and when you're downtown,
• 46:11
  Speaker 7: it's murder mystery Downtown. So to figure out if they
• 46:15
  Speaker 7: solved right, you have to go to an account that
• 46:19
  Speaker 7: starts with murder mystery and ends with the murder weapon
• 46:23
  Speaker 7: used to kill the victim. So and then on that
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: page you get to kind of see if you're right,
• 46:28
  Speaker 7: and you get a little kind of set of pictures
• 46:31
  Speaker 7: and a little video clip kind of.
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: Explaining how that went down.
• 46:35
  Speaker 7: So if you look around and you go to all
• 46:38
  Speaker 7: these different accounts, you'll you should be able to find
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: out what the murder weapon was. And not everyone I've
• 46:44
  Speaker 7: shown it too has figured it out. Some people needed
• 46:46
  Speaker 7: a little extra help, but I did have quite a
• 46:49
  Speaker 7: few people who were able to get to the end successfully.
• 46:52
  Speaker 7: So that was the one thing I was nervous about,
• 46:54
  Speaker 7: like did I make this too hard? Like are people
• 46:55
  Speaker 7: are going to be able to figure this out? But
• 46:57
  Speaker 7: there are there are some people who were able to
• 46:59
  Speaker 7: get to the end.
• 47:02
  Speaker 6: So Joe just to just to sort of ask, when
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: you get to the end, is there any sort of
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: like like I don't want to say prize, but is
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: there anything that like a little trophy or something that
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: like people would like, you know what I mean, like
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: they could sort of bragging rights or you know what
• 47:17
  Speaker 6: I mean? Is there anything at the end where people
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: know it's the end? And is there any type of
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: like prize so to speak, as I'm trying.
• 47:22
  Speaker 7: To say, not so much any external prize, but like
• 47:26
  Speaker 7: I said, when you when you get to the account,
• 47:29
  Speaker 7: when you saw it, there is like a set of
• 47:31
  Speaker 7: pictures and like a video clip that kind of explained
• 47:35
  Speaker 7: how exactly how it happened. You get to see how
• 47:37
  Speaker 7: how the murder happened. And I, uh, that's that's that's
• 47:43
  Speaker 7: pretty much it.
• 47:47
  Speaker 6: No, I just wanted to ask, you know, I imagine, what
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: do you like, you know, cool bragging rights?
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: And it is a really cool idea.
• 47:54
  Speaker 6: So I'm glad, you know, honestly used in social media
• 47:57
  Speaker 6: that way where you know, it's very creative and you know,
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: it's a lot of interactivity, which I which you know,
• 48:03
  Speaker 6: I think is becoming big now, especially with you know,
• 48:05
  Speaker 6: stuff like advances and VR and stuff like that.
• 48:08
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And that's the thing is that all these interactive
• 48:12
  Speaker 7: methods are constantly evolving. You're never going to have the
• 48:16
  Speaker 7: same technology used, you know, even two or three years later.
• 48:20
  Speaker 7: I went to the Cleveland Film Festival this year, which
• 48:23
  Speaker 7: is a pretty pretty big festival for those who don't
• 48:26
  Speaker 7: know anything about it, and they I went to a
• 48:29
  Speaker 7: whole VR demonstration. And I've always kind of had a
• 48:33
  Speaker 7: cataal interest in VR. I've gone to some meetings where
• 48:35
  Speaker 7: I've got to try out the oculus and some of
• 48:39
  Speaker 7: the other more elaborate ones where you get like the
• 48:42
  Speaker 7: full body experience, which is really really really cool. And
• 48:45
  Speaker 7: I and I really believe especially that virtual reality is
• 48:50
  Speaker 7: going to continue to be a bigger and bigger factor
• 48:52
  Speaker 7: in our lives. I think, not only in terms of gaming,
• 48:54
  Speaker 7: but in terms of how we learn and things used
• 48:58
  Speaker 7: in schools and and how we promote ideas, and it
• 49:04
  Speaker 7: can be such an immersive experience. But yeah, some of
• 49:08
  Speaker 7: these films at the Cleveland Film Folcs, it was really
• 49:10
  Speaker 7: interesting to see how they used virtual reality, because I
• 49:15
  Speaker 7: think some of them nailed it really well, and some
• 49:17
  Speaker 7: of them were like, you know, like there was I
• 49:20
  Speaker 7: saw this documentary where they took you to an area
• 49:23
  Speaker 7: where malaria was really active, and it was about this
• 49:30
  Speaker 7: family trying to move to a new area where they
• 49:32
  Speaker 7: could have tents that had mosquito nets on them, and
• 49:36
  Speaker 7: being and like seeing and be able to look around
• 49:40
  Speaker 7: in these environments really really connected you with this family
• 49:43
  Speaker 7: in a way that I don't think I would have
• 49:45
  Speaker 7: felt quite as strongly if it was just a regular
• 49:47
  Speaker 7: two D image that I was watching. And of course
• 49:50
  Speaker 7: at the end, it was for an organization where you
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: could donate to help these families.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word, from our sponsor
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:05
  Speaker 7: And that was like a really exciting use of VR
• 50:09
  Speaker 7: that I think that could be really useful in the future.
• 50:14
  Speaker 7: But then I also watched another one where the whole
• 50:17
  Speaker 7: idea is that you died and you got like buried,
• 50:21
  Speaker 7: and that sounds really cool in theory, but it was
• 50:26
  Speaker 7: not done in a way that I felt was like
• 50:28
  Speaker 7: it just felt really gimmicky. Like if it was telling
• 50:31
  Speaker 7: like a really compelling story, I think it would be
• 50:34
  Speaker 7: more interesting, but it was kind of grainy, and it
• 50:37
  Speaker 7: was to the factor that like, I think within two
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: or three years, the technology is going to make something
• 50:42
  Speaker 7: like that a little less likely to hold up than
• 50:45
  Speaker 7: this really engaging documentary. And I also got to see too,
• 50:50
  Speaker 7: there's a short film called Pearl that was nominated for
• 50:53
  Speaker 7: an Academy Award, and it was a really big deal
• 50:55
  Speaker 7: because it was the first virtual reality project to be
• 50:58
  Speaker 7: nominated for an Academy Away. And that was another one
• 51:01
  Speaker 7: like it was, yeah, maybe the technology will evolve and
• 51:05
  Speaker 7: this this short film won't be as immersive or as
• 51:08
  Speaker 7: as high tech as it is right now, but it
• 51:11
  Speaker 7: was such an endearing story that I think I think
• 51:14
  Speaker 7: it will hold up it was about this this father
• 51:16
  Speaker 7: and daughter playing music together and traveling in this same
• 51:19
  Speaker 7: van across across the country, and.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: It was it was just very very touching.
• 51:24
  Speaker 7: So I think I think the more and more people
• 51:28
  Speaker 7: use this kind of technology and the more it evolves,
• 51:30
  Speaker 7: I think we'll keep finding what works and what doesn't,
• 51:33
  Speaker 7: and what will hold up and what won't.
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, you touched on something there that I
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: feel about about about VR, And sometimes I just feel
• 51:44
  Speaker 6: that they're using it as sort of like a gimmick
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: where it's like it's not really about a story. It's
• 51:48
  Speaker 6: about like it's an it's a pure experience. It's almost
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: like a roller coaster. Yeah, you get on the roller
• 51:54
  Speaker 6: coaster and you're not being you're not asking to be
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: told a story. It's just like, here's an experience. And
• 51:59
  Speaker 6: if that, honestly, if that's what somebody wants to do, hey,
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: and we're paratne because you know, I think, you know,
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: you can't really tell somebody, you know, if if that's
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: an experience that you want to have, hey, man, you know,
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: go for it. But like as far as storytelling goes,
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: I think VR is gonna fall short. I just I
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: just don't think see it actually where people are gonna
• 52:19
  Speaker 6: sit there. Honestly, Joe, if like maybe two hours, maybe
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: four hours, even with.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: Like a video game. I'm talking about video games right now.
• 52:26
  Speaker 6: If we're like if I had a video game with
• 52:27
  Speaker 6: a VR headset on with a controller in my hand
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: and it was like a first person shooter and I'm
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: you know, zombies are coming in. I honestly can't see anybody.
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: I can't see like a main part portion of the
• 52:40
  Speaker 6: population anywhere in the world wanting to do that for
• 52:43
  Speaker 6: more than like twenty minutes. I honestly, man, I think
• 52:46
  Speaker 6: VR has a lot of a lot of things that's
• 52:48
  Speaker 6: gonna share with three D. I think where VR is
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: gonna come into play. And I mentioned this with Jamie Buckner,
• 52:53
  Speaker 6: who was on the podcast few episodes ago, as we
• 52:55
  Speaker 6: were talking about this as well.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: I think the big thing with VR is.
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: Is gonna be education, because yeah, because I actually used
• 53:02
  Speaker 6: to work in higher ed and I got to see
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: a lot of different stuff, and I think one of
• 53:05
  Speaker 6: the big things is gonna be is going to be
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: like you, your textbook isn't going to be an actual
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: book anymore.
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be almost.
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: Like a tablet that you know, when you're learning about
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: the human body, you're gonna well, now we're gonna kind
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: of get into ar. But but the there's just gonna
• 53:23
  Speaker 6: be an image of like, hey, we're studying the human brain,
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: and then image of the human brain will come up
• 53:27
  Speaker 6: out of this tablet and yeah, be able to actually
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: interact with it and touch and touch. Okay, well this
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: is this is your sarahbellum and this is gonna be
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: your uh, you know, frontal cortex and stuff like that,
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: and you're and you're like, oh, okay, that's where this
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: is in the brain and shit like that. And I
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: think that's where I think VR is going to be
• 53:45
  Speaker 6: very huge. By the way, you want to hear something
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: really cool that I was shown in higher ed and
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: it never got to I've never seen it anywhere, and
• 53:52
  Speaker 6: I don't think I don't think it's ever going to
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: be approved. They had a special paint that had nanotechnology
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: in it that actually blocked cell phones, so like if
• 54:00
  Speaker 6: you were like, yeah, and actually except for to dial
• 54:04
  Speaker 6: nine one one, that was the only thing that allowed
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: I never heard anything about it, since I honestly don't
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: think i'd get it passed because I could because probably
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: there's probably gonna be some issue where like it probably
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: well that they said it didn't it blocked nine it
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: didn't block nine one one, but they probably end up
• 54:21
  Speaker 6: did blocking nine one one or something and I couldn't
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: figure out how to get it passed or or maybe
• 54:25
  Speaker 6: some you know what I mean, because because if if
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: something ever did happen at a school, god forbid, you
• 54:30
  Speaker 6: would sit there and say, oh, well, they didn't have
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: their cell phones.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: Because then because of the pain on the walls.
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so you don't want to be, you know, you
• 54:40
  Speaker 6: don't want to be in that situation and be like,
• 54:42
  Speaker 6: well the pain on the walls, you know, stop them.
• 54:44
  Speaker 6: But yeah, I I but but it's a cool idea though,
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: I mean, honestly, it sounds like a really good idea.
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: But but I but I get why it wouldn't be
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: too mainstream and maybe maybe they're gonna roll it out
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: later on. Maybe it's one of those things that takes
• 54:57
  Speaker 6: a few years to come out. But but uh, yeah,
• 55:00
  Speaker 6: that's where I see VR going. As far as VR
• 55:02
  Speaker 6: and movies go, I just don't think it's ever going
• 55:05
  Speaker 6: to happen. I honestly, I think we're at the point
• 55:09
  Speaker 6: now where. I mean, there's a video game that's out
• 55:11
  Speaker 6: right now that somebody was telling me like, hey, Dave,
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: look at this. You could make a movie out of
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: this someday. And I took a look at it and
• 55:17
  Speaker 6: I said, this thing is so far from a movie.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: I don't even know where to begin.
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: And it was it was this big war game where
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: you can have these two armies battle into each other.
• 55:26
  Speaker 6: And I said, there's no there's no detail to the characters.
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: Every character has the same exact stabbing motion. I said,
• 55:34
  Speaker 6: it's really cool in scope, but I mean in when
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: you actually get down to it, it's not really It's
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: impressive from a coding standpoint, but from a movie standpoint,
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: I said, this would be that you know, people would
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: tune out after a minute. You know, there's no story
• 55:46
  Speaker 6: to it. There's no there's no there's nothing that's being told.
• 55:49
  Speaker 6: And you know that that's again when we when we're
• 55:51
  Speaker 6: differentiating between a story and an experience.
• 55:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I think there's a way they could
• 55:59
  Speaker 7: still co exist. This though, because I do kind of
• 56:01
  Speaker 7: agree with you, I don't think it's going to take
• 56:03
  Speaker 7: over movies that all movie theaters are going to be
• 56:05
  Speaker 7: VR experiences. Or anything, because I think it does offer
• 56:08
  Speaker 7: a different thing. And the thing that I'm starting to
• 56:10
  Speaker 7: notice is that when you're directing a VR film, you
• 56:14
  Speaker 7: direct it more like a stage show or like a play,
• 56:18
  Speaker 7: because you with a movie you have the choice of
• 56:21
  Speaker 7: like I'm going to put the pick of the camera
• 56:22
  Speaker 7: here and this is what the audience sees, whereas like
• 56:26
  Speaker 7: with a VR film, you have to think more of
• 56:30
  Speaker 7: like what do I what do I want to lead
• 56:33
  Speaker 7: the audience toward, Like if I want to look over
• 56:35
  Speaker 7: this way, I'll have something to flash you over here,
• 56:37
  Speaker 7: you know, or if I I'll have them follow this
• 56:39
  Speaker 7: character as they walk across the way. And it presents
• 56:42
  Speaker 7: an interesting challenge that I think doesn't replace movies, but
• 56:46
  Speaker 7: could be a very interesting thing in and of itself.
• 56:50
  Speaker 7: And I have to say, when it comes to gaming
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: and stuff, there was a really cool game I tried
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: at one of these VR demonstrations where you were on
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: top of a castle and you had to knock over
• 56:59
  Speaker 7: these little Minecraft like figures from getting into your fort.
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: And I have to say, after after.
• 57:04
  Speaker 7: About a minute of being there with this bow and
• 57:07
  Speaker 7: arrow on top of this this tower, you know, shooting
• 57:11
  Speaker 7: at these little guys trying to get into your castle.
• 57:15
  Speaker 7: Not only do you first of all forget that you're
• 57:17
  Speaker 7: pressing a button that's in your hand to unleash this
• 57:21
  Speaker 7: bow and arrow. You kind of forget that you're not
• 57:26
  Speaker 7: in this environment. And and I think that's the thing
• 57:29
  Speaker 7: where I don't know if I entirely agree that I don't.
• 57:32
  Speaker 7: I don't think it will take over take over gam
• 57:34
  Speaker 7: maybe the only thing available, But it was such an
• 57:38
  Speaker 7: incredible experience for me to do this that if I
• 57:43
  Speaker 7: think if it's cheap enough, and I think it gets
• 57:45
  Speaker 7: if it gets into enough hands, I can't see a
• 57:47
  Speaker 7: future where this isn't a huge part of gaming personally.
• 57:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I you know, I think it goes back to
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: how people want to play their games. I know a
• 57:58
  Speaker 6: lot of people want to like stream and you know,
• 58:01
  Speaker 6: and they can wear their Viera headset and stream at
• 58:03
  Speaker 6: the same time. I mean, look, for example, Paudie Pie
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: if he were to do something like that, you know,
• 58:10
  Speaker 6: I think also it depends upon Sometimes honestly, Joe, I
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: feel like I'm staring at a screen every second of
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: my day some days, which I probably am. I'm staring
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: at it either a laptop. I have four different laptops
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: I have to use. I have two cell phones, and
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: I'm just like when I drive, I also have an
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: onboard computer that's my GPS, and also collect cell phone
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: stuff for me, and it's just like, you know, I
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: just I don't have to look at that. But like
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: driving is probably the only time LEFTO I'm not staring
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: at a screen, and I'm just you know, do I
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: really want to do I really want to you know,
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: just keep staring at a screen that's now gonna be
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: like two inches from my face. You know, I actually
• 58:48
  Speaker 6: played when I played that Batman game, it was actually
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: for for PS four. It was actually really cool to
• 58:54
  Speaker 6: look around the back cave and everything like that, and
• 58:56
  Speaker 6: you know, take a look at this or that, and
• 58:58
  Speaker 6: and my friend had that exercise bike thing where you
• 59:00
  Speaker 6: can put the VR headset on.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: You can you know you're in the Alps or whatever.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Really cool.
• 59:06
  Speaker 6: But I just wonder if it's something where you're gonna
• 59:08
  Speaker 6: want to use it every day for the moment. And
• 59:11
  Speaker 6: I know those people out there who would use it
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: every day, but for other people, I wonder if it's
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: just something that would What I'm trying to say is
• 59:17
  Speaker 6: I wonder if VR would end up just becoming a
• 59:19
  Speaker 6: real niche market, almost like three D became what I
• 59:24
  Speaker 6: think four K Blu Rays might become. Because I hear
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: four K Blu rays and I and I honestly, you know,
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: I mean, how many people if I if I gave them,
• 59:33
  Speaker 6: like and you know a screen I said, pick out
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: the four K version, could actually find it if it
• 59:38
  Speaker 6: was the same TV with the same players with this,
• 59:40
  Speaker 6: you know what I mean? Yeah, And it's just because
• 59:42
  Speaker 6: I mean, if it's not shot in four K, I mean,
• 59:44
  Speaker 6: it's not gonna look like four K. I mean, honestly,
• 59:47
  Speaker 6: Mad Max Fury road shot in two K. I see
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: a four K release of it, and I'm like, why
• 59:53
  Speaker 6: it's not even it wasn't even shot in four K.
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: I mean, I know they could do upscaling and stuff
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: like that, but I mean, really.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show, you.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: Know what I mean, Like, I think a lot of
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 6: this stuff's going to end up becoming a niche sort
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 6: of market, if you that's just my prediction.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 7: Oh VR will definitely have to cross that hurdle very
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 7: similar to what you said like three D, where I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 7: think one of the big reasons three D didn't catch
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 7: on as big as it did in a home market is.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: Because of the glasses situation.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 7: You know, if you wanted to get together, because like
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 7: I saw like demonstrations.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: As like three D sports games, and those were really cool.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 7: It just looked like these little tiny people on your
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 7: screen running around. But you know, like if someone's trying
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 7: to get together a group of friends and watch like
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 7: a like a basketball game or a football game or
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: something like that, I highly doubt they're going to want
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 7: to put on a bunch of glasses and fiddle with
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 7: that and all, let's get the settings right and stuff.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: So I think you're right to a certain degree.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 7: I think if VR wants to not just become that
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 7: little niche thing, they're gonna have to find a way
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 7: to a make it more financially available to everybody, and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 7: b find a way that maybe they won't have to
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 7: have these big clunky headsets on the entire time and
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 7: make it more of a maybe a more integrated experience
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 7: where it seemed like less hassle.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 6: You know, yes, that is that is exactly right, man,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 6: with those three D glasses. I had a friend of
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: mine who actually bought a three D TV and he
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 6: bought four pairs of glasses. He bought it a one
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: black Friday he had. You know, we went over there,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: we put on the glasses. We watched Avatar. Well it's
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: really cool, and I was like, you know, but after it,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: I'm like, you know, by the end, unless like, I'd
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 6: rather just watch a regular two D movie Like I honestly, man,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: I'm old school in that method where I'm just like,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 6: I'd rather watch an eighties horror slasher like Jason Jason
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 6: Friday The Thirteenth Part three. He tried, They tried to
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 6: make that three D and I was like, yeah, it's
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 6: cool and everything, where you know, the arrows are coming
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 6: at you with the one shot and this and that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 6: and the other thing. But I'm like, at the end,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 6: you know, somebody once told me, good three D goes in,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 6: bad three D comes out. So if you're constantly like
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 6: dodging stuff, that's you know, okay, that's almost like a
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 6: wake up to the audience or that's like a cool
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 6: effect or whatever. But good three D, like Avatar was,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: it goes in and you can actually just see as
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 6: far as you can actually as the eye can see
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 6: literally because it's just an immersive world back there, you
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 6: know what I mean. And and you know, that's one
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 6: of the things why I actually did like Avatar.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: I actually was dating a girl at the time. We
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: went to go see it, and she goes.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 6: That was terrible. I was like, I was like, shut up,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 6: what do you know about it? That's like, shut out,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: what do you know about movies? I said, I'll tell
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 6: you if it's good or not. No, I'm just kidding
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: around you. But but but but uh but she said,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 6: you know, she didn't like it. We were talking about it,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: and I was like, you know, I'm I'm a sucker
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 6: for James Cameron. But uh, but just to get back
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 6: that we were talking about, you know, with with with
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 6: all this stuff, you know, I just think yet having
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 6: people having to put on like headsets and stuff like that,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 6: it it becomes like a almost like a like you know,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 6: because some people are gonna say, oh, Greg, I put
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 6: on this headset again, or I gotta put it away
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 6: and you gotta find it again, or it's just like
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 6: something like Dave misplace it, or you know what I mean.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: It's just more things that are there moving parts to
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: a situation.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's a very akin to something.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 7: I mean, it could go either way because I mean
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 7: look at something like a like a computer tablet, right
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 7: like like when the iPad came out, people were scoffing
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 7: because people been trying to pitch tablets for years, I
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 7: mean been there have been tablets that came out in
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 7: the nineties and it just never connected with the public.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 7: You know, it just wasn't. They were too pricey, they
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 7: were too clunky. But Apple managed to make something that
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 7: people wanted and found a usage for. They brought back
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 7: an old idea and made it in a way that
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 7: was consumable and made it in a way that people
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 7: really really liked. So yeah, I completely agree. I think
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 7: with VR and I think there are I agree that
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 7: there are some good uses of three D, but I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 7: don't think there was enough of a of a of
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 7: a difference. Like I think one movie that used it
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 7: really well that I saw in three D was Pixar's
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 7: Up Up, because like at the beginning of the film,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 7: the three D was very flat because you're living in
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 7: his life where he's cooped up and he's just this
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 7: old guy, this widower, and and he's lonely, and then
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 7: like when he's out there in the middle of South America,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 7: like gets really deep and he's up in the clouds and.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: It feels big and vast.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 7: So I think people are gonna have to use VR
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 7: like that, you know, Like I said, don't just tell
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 7: a story about Look, you're.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: Dying and now you're in a coffin, Like take the.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 7: Gimmick out of it and really focus on the exciting
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 7: storytelling potential of this medium and what can be.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: Done with it.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 7: And and that doesn't mean you have to play it safe,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 7: but be smart about how you use it and use
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 7: it in a way that people connect to.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, jactly, right, Joe. It always comes back to the story.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 6: It always comes back to you know, what kind of
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 6: story are you telling and what what kind of emotional
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: core are we going with here?
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: Because people have to care about these characters. They have
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 6: to be you know, not sympathetic, but empathetic. We have
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 6: to empathize with them, and you know, and with the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 6: story you're telling, you know, it's just we have to
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 6: become hooked. And that's why I always get pissed off
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 6: Joe and people say, you got to hook them in
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 6: the first ten pages. No, you have to hook them
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 6: the whole freaking story, not in the first ten pages.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 6: Maybe the reader, maybe the maybe some reader, the gatekeeper
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 6: I have to hook for the first ten pages he
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 6: or she passes. But from when I gather, most most
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 6: gatekeepers who are script readers who have to read those scripts,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 6: they have to read everything cover to cover. They can't
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: read the first ten pages and say see if you know,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 6: forget this and and and you know what I mean,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 6: And they have to write a report about it afterwards
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 6: they have through their weekend reads and as well, and
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 6: from what I gather, they have to read every script
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: cover to cover. So you have to hook them the
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 6: whole script. And you know, you have to hook them
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 6: the whole whole time, no matter what you're doing. And
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 6: you know, as you talk about the experiences, that too
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: has a hook to it. You know, even if you
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 6: write a roller coaster, there has to be something special
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 6: about it that sets it apart, whether you put all
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 6: the extra loops in, whether they're twists and turns, whether
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 6: you sit down with the Superman roller coaster, all that
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 6: good stuff, and yeah, I mean you know so uh yeah,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 6: you know, everything has to have you know, it's it's speciality,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: it's it's you know, what makes it special. And you know,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 6: because Joe, I mean we you know, we've been talking
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 6: for about over an hour now, and I want to ask,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 6: you know, Joe, is there anything we could talk about
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: that you wanted to discuss now, or anything you wanted
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 6: to say to put a period at the end of
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 6: this whole conversation.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 7: Uh? No, I guess just as a whole like it's
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 7: it's really good to talk about this kind of stuff
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 7: with people who who share your interests and and also
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 7: care about creating and and I think it's important to
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 7: to connect with with people who are doing stuff similar
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 7: to us.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: And I think.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 7: You just you do that so wonderfully on your show
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 7: and and you create this conversation because there are all
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 7: these people out there who are making such cool stuff
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 7: and and it's so cool that you bring a light
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 7: to those things. And I just want to thank you
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 7: for for creating that conversation.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 6: Oh, thank you so much, Joe. I try my best,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 6: I you know, with it with this podcast and everything
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 6: like that.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: And Uh, one.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 6: Of the reasons I started this was because I wanted
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: to actually talk to filmmakers out there, and uh, I
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: got to meet great no great people like you. I've
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: got to you know, and I've I honestly've got to
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: meet so many great people. And uh, I just look
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 6: at it as like this is the tip of the iceberg,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 6: and I actually want to just keep moving forward with
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 6: this and in a lot of different ways, and you know,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 6: and start doing a couple more things and people people. Actually,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 6: you know, not to segue too far away, but somebody
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 6: once said to me, what are you working on now?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 6: You know, you haven't worked on anything in probably a
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: few years, And honestly, it's it's I've been taking a
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: step back to take to take two steps forward. And
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 6: you know that's something I'm working on now is I'm
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 6: working on a ton of stuff and uh a lot
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: of cool podcasting stuff as well that uh uh that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 6: I've been talking a few people about and hopefully, you know,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna hope, hopefully do a bunch of stuff with
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: that soon. And but I also got a couple of
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 6: other things playing. But uh, but Joe, thank you so much,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: you know for coming on. And where where can people
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 6: find you out online?
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 7: If you go to Pogjoe dot com, p O g
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 7: I E Joe dot com. Uh, you can see all
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 7: the things that I've talked about. We have our Prism
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 7: trailer on there. There's I think I just put a
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 7: thing about the Murder Mystery game. Uh, there's links to
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 7: our podcast and we're on all different kinds of podcasting
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 7: apps and sources and everything. My YouTube stuff is on there.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 7: So I want to see any of the stuff I've
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 7: mentioned at all during the show, that's probably the best
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 7: place to go.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: And I will link to all of that in the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 6: show notes. Everyone, Joe does some really really cool stuff.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 6: And I really I like that nickname too, Pogi Joe,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 6: and you know, and uh, and he does some really
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 6: cool stuff and I'm gonna link to that all in
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 6: the show notes. Joe Kolalski pog Joe. I want to
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 6: say thank you so much for coming on my friend.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: Hey, thank you so much. It's it's always a joy
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: to talk to you.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 6: Oh, thank you you. And you know, I appreciate at
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 6: least one person wants to talk to me, but thanks
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 6: you so much. Joe notes, it's really great and honestly, man,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 6: I can't wait to see what you're gonna do next,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 6: and I also will introduce you to that guy who
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 6: runs that film festival. Right now, I will shoot, I
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 6: will make a Facebook message introduction and get you two talking.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: Thank you. That would be brilliant. I would really like
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: to talk to him.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 6: Sure, no problem, Joe, Joe, have a great day and
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 6: I will talk to you very soon, my friend.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: All right, you want to thank Dave so much for
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: doing such a great job on this episode. If you
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: want to get links to anything we spoke about in
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash for twenty three. Thank you
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: so much for listening. Guys, as always, keep on writing
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: no matter what.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv.