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80. Jim Quigley Interview - Freedom Farm · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:00
I do not mean to be mean, I do mean to be mad.
0:05
Those that criticize this kind of preacher.
0:07
They don't like Authority. If you ain't got the King James,
0:11
you ain't got, hey, you don't have a King James, you don't
0:14
have a Bible. It be surprised then don't go to
0:20
sleep when I'm talking. Hey, hey, hey, don't, don't
0:22
don't you lay your head but I'm I'm important.
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I'm somebody, I love you. You know, I love you.
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And I convince you, I love you. You better said, you better not
0:31
your hideous or come up with her to stay awake.
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You listen to me? I still believe to be a cold day
0:40
in Hell. Before I get back down with your
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woman, I'm a preacher. When you got dressed today, you
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dressed deity. This is the for Freedom podcast,
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a podcast that is part of the RFP Network that seeks to bring
1:07
freedom in Christ from the spiritual abuse of legalism.
1:11
Now, here are your hosts, John hollifield and James Secret And
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so fundamentalism is designed to unpack, the idea of authority
1:23
from scripture. The problem with that is that
1:25
that's not the defining principle in Scripture.
1:28
It is a part of the defining principle in scripture is love.
1:53
And I'm not saying that all will be drawn to that sort of
2:01
teacher. I don't want to give people just
2:14
a list of things they can start doing differently until they
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have a heart out of which there. Going to be doing those things
2:20
differently. But I think bitterness is
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different from her. I would say that hurt or even
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abuse does not have to result in bitterness, Welcome everybody.
2:42
We are excited to have Jim Quigley with us today.
2:46
James and I are interviewing James.
2:48
As you're listening to this James is not in the, in his
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Studio James is driving around. So, if you hear his audio,
2:56
that's he's pulling the Brian Edwards.
2:59
Little RFP fam Network. They're recording in the car as
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he's going. So, you know, John this week, as
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we have a busy schedule sometimes.
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That our families are also in that schedule.
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So I took my son to his appointment this morning and I'm
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taking him to school right now. So we are doing life and
3:20
Ministry all the same time, and it's a great thing.
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It's a great thing to be able to do that.
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Well, you're doing better than I did because I don't know when
3:27
this is going to air or when the Shawn parole interview is going
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to hear. But I didn't make it for that
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one, but James made sure that he made it on for this one.
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I didn't think you were. I thought I was gonna be flying
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solo today but we're excited. We're going to be talking A
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little bit about addictions today.
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As we are trying to bring a Biblical counseling perspective
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and bring the Bible, the sufficiency of scripture to
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helps with life problems and that type of thing.
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And so, we've got Jim Quigley. He's the director of Freedom
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Farm Ministries. That have Boone North Carolina.
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Jim, welcome to the podcast. Hey, it's great to be here guys.
4:00
And what baby, the audience should know that James is not
4:03
holding his phone if they're watching it.
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He's got an assistant right now. So, that's right.
4:10
Well, Jim, tell us a little bit about what you do there.
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What Freedom Farm is sure. So, my title is on the executive
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director of Freedom Farm industries, which is a one-year
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residential facility for men and women that are struggling with
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the sin of substance abuse. We've been around since 2006 and
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the, the one-year spin in four different phases and I won't Get
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into all the details about about all the phases but basically the
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idea is that people are progressively moving for
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through, you know, beginning stages, lots of lots of
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supervision and that supervision lightens up and then they start
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getting more engagement with the community more engaged with.
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You know, quote-unquote, you're a normal life of, you know, get
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a job, pay your bills and things like that.
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But we slowly We integrate people through those four stages
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and they get Biblical teaching all along the way in order to
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help reorder their lives. So that's awesome.
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That's awesome. And I've gym also co-host
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podcast to called the addiction connection with Mark Shaw.
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And I've got to hear a lot of, I listened to that faithfully.
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And so I've heard a lot of like, what Jim's work is there and
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there's another guy. CJ CJ McMurray.
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Yeah, see Jamie McMurray and his ministry.
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So these guys are doing Frontline work with those that
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are just, you know, struggling with sin and struggling with
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with problems that a lot, you know, quite honestly, a lot of
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people don't want to put that, you just cast aside.
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Yeah. And and so, it's phenomenal.
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What they're doing, but Jim has an interesting story.
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Jim of how we became the executive director of, yeah,
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yeah, when I was introducing myself, I was, I said, I have
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the title of executive director and I have to say that humbly
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because I didn't sign up to be the director and I don't know if
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I do such a good job of what an executive director would be.
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I have a wonderful board that is is a come have come alongside of
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me and they're really trying to help me out.
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But but I came to Freedom Farm as a resident of the program.
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And, you know, my back story with my Personal struggle with
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with addiction. You know I started using drugs
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and alcohol at an early age 12 13 and it took a progressive
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course until I was 24, I grew up, Christian private school.
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I went to a conservative church, I was a I was a member of a PCA
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church growing up and so I had a lot of good influence.
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Around me Christian influence around me but I you know I took
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my own path which I know today was I had a real issue with
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pride of life. That was, that was my love for
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the world. I had a real strong pride of
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life issue and that really influence and drove addiction
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for me. And anyway, I went You at 24.
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I had a lot of things happen. That drove me into recovery
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secular recovery, which 12 steps South Florida, which is, I
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mentioned stuff for it because anybody that knows anything
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about the world of addiction recovery.
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Knows that South Florida is like per square mile.
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The the largest concentration of rehabs and rehabs and Halfway
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houses and things like that. So anyway, secular rehab
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conservative church and I ended up going to Bible College.
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I wanted to serve the Lord, six years of sobriety Ababa, college
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degree. I relapsed I relapse because I
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never dealt with my pride of life sand and when I, when I was
8:33
35 through lots of lots of circumstances, one, One final
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circumstance being, I was living at my pastor's home with his
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wife and three small children. He was the pastor of the PCA
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church Reich that I had grown up in and I overdosed in his house
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and that led to me being kicked out and, and I lost my job.
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And I ended up at Freedom Farm, two weeks later.
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And here at Freedom farm is where I was able to Finally,
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repent of my my, my deep heart issues and really might worship
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of myself, which is a lot of what pride of life issues in
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you. You're worshiping yourself and
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the tool to do that was drugs. That sounds probably complicated
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but but that's really what was going on with me.
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And I've been here ever since I worked underneath the old the
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old founder director and after about four years, I, I what I
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took over the ministry and I've been here ever since it's a up,
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Jim, would you say that you were like a, what time did you become
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a Believer? I guess what I'm sort of curious
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about, like, would you say that you were a believer in any point
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of those times of addiction? Yeah.
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So this is this a tough conversation to have with people
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but I do believe I don't have that story where We're at this
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day, I gave my life over to the Lord right.
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In my understanding about how God works, he regenerates a
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heart, right? And you have a you have a real
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sensitivity to God and His law and and your need for
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forgiveness. And, and all of those things,
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you have knowledge of God, right in a way, that a natural person
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doesn't. And I believe I had that from an
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early age. And I also believe that
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persistence in or Abba setting sin in a Believers life, can can
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quench the Holy Spirit. And in my context of quenching
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the Holy Spirit, I explain it. This way that Kong of spiritual
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conviction that you have in your life.
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I think God just kind of makes it really quiet and you don't,
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you don't really you feel the conviction anymore and actually
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gets even scarier because that you had it at one time and you
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continue in sin and every so often you'll think about how
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South sinful year being and but you're not really that convicted
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to her, you want to turn from it and that that becomes a whole
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new wrestling in your mind. And this comes out of this
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second Corinthians 7. We're talks about Godly sorrow
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and worldly sorrow. If you know the passage, it says
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that It says that Godly sorrow leads to repentance which leads
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to Salvation without regret a better translation actually, is
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that Godly sorrow leads to repentance, which leads to life
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and a life without regret. That's actually a better
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translation, whereas worldly sorrow leads to death, that's
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what it says but that that that letter is being written to
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Believers. So I don't think it's proper
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appropriate to think that At these talking about initial
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conversion and salvation. There he's talking about a state
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of spiritual life, whereas, if you get caught up in a worldly
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sorrow, which I was, I was very sorry for not being as good as I
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wanted to be in front of everybody, right?
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I was really sorry that I hadn't had accomplishments in life and
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I had turned out as a loser, right?
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In my own mind, I was really sorry that people that I wanted
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to to think highly of me didn't, right?
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I was really sorry about those things but God had nothing to do
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with any of that, right? That's worldly sorrow and I
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really did experience a kind of spiritual death, is that makes
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sense like where you where you just would rather die?
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And you know, unfortunately well part of my story is.
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I actually had at least one very serious suicide attempt that I
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survived. I was in a coma for four days
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but that, you know, that's how bad it that can get yours.
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Sin and quenching the spirit can get to where you'd rather die
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than live. Was that after the the sobriety
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of yes here he was during that five-year relapse, it was
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shortly before relapsing at the overdosing.
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At the pastor's house I had I had been home and this is kind
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of a screwed-up story, but I had let my brother.
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I have a younger brother that also has struggled with
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addiction. I had let Borrow my car for
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months and I was at a rehab. I was in rehab while he was
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using my car and I got out of rehab prematurely and I was
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already Off to the Races and I called my brother up and he knew
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I was high and I demanded my car.
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I said you're bringing me my car tomorrow, I'm getting my car
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back tomorrow so my brother didn't want to give me my car
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because he figured I'd probably go out and do something really
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bad. So what he did was he parked it
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in front of an, in a In the handicapped parking spot in
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front of a bar. And my brother was drinking.
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So he sat there and drink called call the taxi.
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But then call the tow truck company and said, hey,
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somebody's parked this car in a note, in a handicap spot.
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So anyway, the next day I was looking for my car and my
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brother was like, I don't know man, I parked it in front of
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your house, I don't know why it's not there.
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I live in an apartment complex and and I ended up Looking all
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over the place for my car. And then I ended up calling the
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cops and they said, your car was not stolen.
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We towed it last night from this establishment and when I found
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that out like I was, I was desperately trying to go get
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drugs and I had no ride. I had no way to go get it and I
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went upstairs and and I ended up taking about three months supply
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of a bunch of mental medication that that I had been given and
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and it put me into a coma for For a few days my my internal
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organs temporarily kind of were going in and out and stuff.
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It was, it was not good, it was not a good time.
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Well, I got a question. This isn't even part of our
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interview that but you brought it up and I want to ask about my
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wife, she's a Christian School teacher and someone that she
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works with her son, just tried committing suicide this week.
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And so I've had some conversations a little bit with
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the family and just trying to help out His dad's a pastor in
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the area. What?
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What? Help did you get after that?
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After you committed suicide? Of course you were on suicide,
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watch for a little bit or tried to commit.
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Suicide and suicide. Watch a little bit.
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What, what was some things that helped you after that?
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Yeah. Coming from the I can actually
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tell you exactly what happened. For me.
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It didn't happen, right? All right.
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Right after that. I mean, obviously after that, I
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had the overdose at the pastor's house and I'll tell you to
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events that Pastor visited me in the hospital, right?
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I love this guy. His name is Omar Ortiz.
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He's actually now over on the, he's in San Diego now with his
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family, but but Omar came to me in the hospital room, I'd been
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in there for about three or four days and after my overdose at
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his house and he he had to excuse his wife because I got
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into a fight with her. Like this is how prideful I was.
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Okay, she came in to yell at me because they found my
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paraphernalia, they found syringes and spoons like in a
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room of their house and they have small children, right?
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And she says, how dare you Mike it?
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What could, what would have happened if my kids had gotten a
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hold of this, and my answer to her was, you know, I'm really
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sorry that you thought this was all going to work out some way,
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but you knew exactly what you were bringing into your house
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when you made the decision. So, I basically said it was her
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fault. Well, that's how prideful I was,
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and aisle. And, and he had to excuse her
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out of the room. I mean, I was a really damaged.
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I had to really make amends with her about a year later because I
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actually had forgotten how hurtful I had been, but but he
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stayed in the room and patiently looked at me and he said, Jim
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look, I've been battling all night my brain and I'm really
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struggling because I believe, you know, the gospel.
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He's like, I just can't get past that.
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This guy knows the gospel. Like, I, I've seen some fruit
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that would just indicate that You are a Believer, so I can't
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go. If for some reason, I'm not
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going down that so I'm just trying to figure out what in the
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world, how can I help you? And he says, you know, in James,
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it says that some of us are sick.
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And we need to come to the elders and, and pray and confess
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our sins to each other and, and pray for each other.
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So that we may be healed. And he said and, you know, I
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wonder, he goes, you know, I don't I Don't I'm not trying to
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present myself as a Catholic priest and we have to do
18:37
confession but he said, I wonder Jim how long it's been since
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you've actually confessed and and just really repented and and
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and had a brother sit next to you and just remind you of what
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Christ has done for your sin to remind you that you're forgiven.
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And and he said so I wondered if maybe you wanted to do that and
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again this to show you how arrogant of what I'm like.
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In a hospital room, okay? And in a bed, I just got a nice.
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You and this was my answer to him.
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I said, I said, you know, Omar that sounds really nice and if I
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ever want to do something like that, you're the first guy I'm
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going to call. So anyway, fast forward, like a
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month later. And I'm here at Freedom Farm.
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And the senior pastor, who's your friend of mine, he was here
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talking to the Freedom Farm, guys, on a Wednesday night and
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he said, look, I got I got a message on my heart right now
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and he says, and he goes, this is what I want to say.
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He says really there's two groups of people in this room.
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He says, there are, there are men in this room that have never
19:51
had a relationship with God through Christ.
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And he says, and I want to, I want to assure you You you're
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going to hear you're in a good place to hear how you can have
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that. You can have a relationship with
20:04
God through Christ. He said, but that's not
20:06
necessarily who I want to talk to tonight.
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He says my heart is really burdened for some guys in this
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room that have relationships with God through Christ and he
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says, because those are the people I want to talk to because
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you're coming to a place like Freedom Farm, and you're feeling
20:23
that God is way over here. And your way.
20:26
Over here and you're at Freedom Farm and you've got to do a lot
20:30
of work to get back to him. He said, those are the guys I
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want to talk to him when he said that that got, that got my
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attention because I was like, yeah, that's me.
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You know, I want to, I want to get back to God.
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That's why I'm here. And the task of getting back to
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God is daunting. So, little side note, if you
20:50
live a period of of legalist, self-righteous. - you know,
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which is what I did, you know, I don't know when it turned into
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that but I had six years of sobriety, I went to Bible
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College, I got a degree, all those things when that when that
21:06
becomes a pile of self-righteousness that you're
21:09
standing on top of, right? And you fall from it, that pile
21:14
is still active. If you don't understand it,
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well, right? And this is what I mean, you
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fell and then that piles on top of you and in your thinking
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you're like in order to get back to where I once was it's going
21:25
to take at least That much work to get back there, right?
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And so that's what I was stuck in.
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I was stuck in that. Like, how am I ever?
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I mean, that took six years to get.
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How am I ever going to get back there?
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That's what was going on in my own head and that's what he was
21:42
addressing that night and that's why I got my attention and he
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just used a little simple stration.
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He said this is what I want you to understand.
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He says, you guys that have a relationship, it's like this.
21:53
He goes. Your relationship is secure
21:55
because it's in Christ. First, he goes, but this is what
21:58
happens. He goes some of us turn from God
22:02
and turn to our sin but God hasn't gone anywhere.
22:06
You still have a relationship with him, but what you've done
22:09
is, you've broken fellowship with him.
22:11
But he's given this wonderful thing to restore Fellowship.
22:14
It's called repentance and repentance means to turn.
22:18
So you don't need to go and work.
22:19
All this stuff to get back to him, you just need to turn back
22:21
to him in Repentance. And restore fellowship.
22:26
And he said, I want to, I want to lead anybody that wants to in
22:29
prayer tonight to do that. And that night, I did.
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And I said, like the first honest prayer, I probably said
22:36
in years. And I wasn't like filled with
22:39
the holy spirit that night or anything like that.
22:41
Like, was started speaking in tongues or anything.
22:43
Yeah, but but, but I will tell you that I was telling you guys,
22:49
I think before or maybe it was during this, that I had been
22:52
through a period of where, I believe me.
22:54
The setting sin had quench the spirit in my life.
22:58
And when I meant that what I meant by that is like his
23:01
conviction that conviction. It almost was so, so so quiet.
23:06
You know, that it really didn't, it wasn't impactful, but like I
23:10
remember just soon after that prayer like conviction came back
23:14
in my life, like a, like, a Gong man.
23:17
I mean, I was afraid to not heed conviction.
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If that makes any sense, it was like, it was like he He it was
23:25
amazing. I almost start get weepy, just
23:27
talking about it, but something, something happened.
23:31
Where, and I trust me, I had an experience with God in a special
23:38
way with, but was it a few days I was already ours already not
23:42
listening to some of the conviction, but it was a start
23:46
of a path of upwards trajectory in my life that I never looked
23:52
back from and at things just 32, that's where I kind of got a
23:58
passion for this type of work. I mean, because I saw myself is,
24:02
you know, Bible college guy. You know, I graduated from Bible
24:04
College, and this is a very simple biblical concept that
24:08
that I'm sure people told me, right?
24:11
I'm sure I'm sure people had explained this before, but, but
24:16
why is it that? Like, it just seems so new to
24:18
me. You know, what, why did I seem
24:21
to miss it? You know, so if I can miss it,
24:24
it then anybody can miss it, and they need Brothers around them
24:29
to really, just explain the ABCs of the Gospel to them.
24:33
And so, so I just kind of felt called to do, you know.
24:37
Now, I think that's, that's, I think that's been fantastic.
24:39
And I think it's very honest, like more honest, that I think
24:45
sometimes Believers are willing to get.
24:47
Mmm. Yeah, I was just thinking about
24:48
that him Come Thou Fount. And that line at the end of
24:51
think, of a third verse prone to wander, Lord.
24:54
I feel it prone to leave the God.
24:56
I love what a statement that was written down. 100 over 100 years
25:02
ago. Yeah.
25:03
Prone to leave the God. I love ya.
25:06
If we can figure out that statement, right?
25:09
Because I think it's it we can see it and like someone it
25:12
manifests itself in a life-destroying addiction, but
25:17
in our own Hearts, you know, how was your walk with God, grown?
25:22
So cold. It's really a lot of the same.
25:24
Same, same things that you're breaking down with what was
25:27
going on in your life. Hmm.
25:29
You know you're going through motions.
25:31
You've grown cold to you. The spirit, you know, and his
25:35
working and heart just like you were saying, that was that it
25:37
happened with you? Now.
25:40
Yeah, you know you guys love biblical counseling and you
25:45
know, one of the fundamental things about, you know, when you
25:47
have a new case, a Biblical counseling is that you got to
25:50
figure out? Is this a?
25:51
Is this a going to be an Just like a peel or am I going to be
25:57
my going to be walking along? Someone saw outside someone in.
26:00
Sanctification what am I doing here?
26:01
Those are the two things and that's like you know that's
26:04
that's really the problem. A lot of times when it comes to
26:11
addressing you know these outward be setting sins of
26:15
people, they want to attack just the sin like addiction
26:19
especially right. You know now now the world of
26:23
addiction they just Want to give you medication for it likes.
26:26
Like, hey, we'll give you this medication and that'll, you
26:29
know, that may that may that may reduce people's use and things
26:36
like that, but you're never going to get down to the heart
26:38
of the matter, because the heart of the matter is it the person
26:41
is either unregenerate or they're really struggling on on,
26:45
in sanctification here. And we need, we need to get down
26:48
to those things, you know? Yeah.
26:51
And I think so. I'm glad you brought that up
26:54
because Does whether it's whether it's counselors fellow
26:57
councillors, listen this, whether its family members of
26:59
someone going through this, what you have to realize is that God
27:05
is the only one who can do that type of work.
27:08
He's the one that has to reach down to the heart and and do the
27:13
work in that person as much as we care for those people.
27:16
We cannot change them, right? Yeah.
27:21
Well, Jim, as we continue this talk, as we continue to go
27:24
forward, what, how did you go from thirties at 13 or 15 years
27:29
ago Odie and, you know, at your Rock Bottom.
27:34
How did you go from there to? Now you're the executive
27:37
director of the ministry that you went to.
27:40
Like that's a good. That's a crazy journey to think,
27:42
you know, you started at one point and now you're again, I
27:46
know you said you felt like, you know, led to and to continue to
27:49
Invest other people that are struggling the same things but
27:53
going from Bible College OD into now you're the you're the man in
27:56
charge they had on the James's question sure.
27:59
We're and we're not asking this. I don't think we're not asking
28:02
this to sort of like, look how great Jim is, right?
28:06
Yeah, but we're asking this because I think some people that
28:09
have especially people that have family members that are addicts.
28:13
It's when you're in the middle, it's hard to see that there is a
28:17
other side. Hmm, regard his work.
28:20
And there's life on the other side and I think hearing this
28:23
part of your story, Jim could be very encouraging to someone like
28:27
that. Yeah, absolutely.
28:29
Yeah. The the journey.
28:34
Not only that moment I just explained to you guys where
28:37
someone finally spoke into what was going on with me in my
28:40
heart. You know, previously to that
28:45
like many other people that struggle with addiction.
28:48
I had been to a bunch of Of programs, right?
28:51
And I had been given a whole bunch of information that,
28:56
unfortunately, I don't agree with this day.
29:00
And the thing is, is that I think a lot of those people very
29:04
well-meaning, right? A lot of people were really,
29:07
really good care. Just like you were just saying,
29:11
John, there are people that that care, but they do think they can
29:16
change you write and And that, that's a, that's a, that's a
29:21
theological thing. That, you know, the average
29:23
person, you know, just doesn't understand that it takes God to
29:27
transform people. The majority of people believe
29:31
that we can change people, you know.
29:33
So so I think that I was caught up in that world and and I and,
29:39
you know, half of that world was was spent in Christian programs,
29:44
right? So they were they were Christian
29:46
programs. Now people in the biblical
29:48
Counseling World, Maybe they know there's made, they don't
29:52
but that but I would say probably 90% 95%, I mean that's
29:57
just an arbitrary number, but it's very, very high of places
30:01
that are Christian rehab. Programs are really just
30:05
integration programs that that's what they are.
30:07
They they and their they're probably more skewed to the
30:12
secular world than Christian because this is a longer
30:17
conversation. But you know this Is a, I think,
30:22
problem that exists because the church as a whole has deferred
30:26
to that world for so long that people just understand that.
30:32
Yeah, that's what, that's what you do for addicts.
30:35
You send them over there where they're going to be told all
30:38
this stuff about, you know, first it was they had genetic
30:42
dispositions, then they had chemical imbalances.
30:45
Now they have they have Brain issues, you know, they're their
30:52
neural Pathways in their brain are messed up, you know, those
30:56
are the causes of addiction. And so the church has done that
31:00
for so long that that that that that that that whole world has
31:06
gotten quite a foothold in being able to say what they say and
31:11
carry the power that they carry for dressing the addicted and
31:15
you know, the church has to take responsibility for.
31:17
That is a whole, I don't know. I don't know who would be doing
31:20
that, you know, but trick the people in the church need to
31:23
understand that that's what's happened.
31:25
So I just saw that there's a giant problem.
31:28
As far as you just need to have good bible-believing, Christian
31:33
speaking into this problem, right?
31:35
And you need to some some people would benefit from a place like
31:39
Freedom Forum, where they come and they're and they're cut off
31:42
from all the everyday things. That would that would cause them
31:46
so easily to stumble, you know, that influence.
31:49
I like using the word cause but influence them so easily to
31:52
stumble but and have people just speak the truth of the Gospel
31:58
into their lives for a period of time, and let the let the Lord
32:03
do do, what he does to that with that.
32:05
I just saw that, that there's such a need for that, that that
32:10
when I was here, I literally knew people at other programs.
32:14
That knew me that actually were trying to get me to come over
32:18
and work for them. And I Like, hey, the Lord's got
32:21
me right here and it's, you know, why would I leave?
32:24
You know, I'm right here and the story of how I eventually became
32:30
the director really was? You know, I started here as a
32:33
resident. I started to take on
32:35
responsibility here and unfortunately in a lot of rehab
32:40
programs, the people that that serve are usually peer support.
32:46
And there's a lot of turnover because there's a lot of People
32:49
that go back to the pigsty, you know?
32:52
So as people would turn over, I would just get new
32:56
responsibilities here and eventually you guys ever.
33:01
You ever heard someone talk about Founders syndrome?
33:03
People that struggle with Founders syndrome.
33:07
So people James James, those of talking about like people that
33:10
start a Ministry and you know, Ministries are run by your
33:15
response, you you you answer to a board of directors, right?
33:19
Founders, a lot of times they are the board of directors right
33:24
in their own mind because they visited and there was jobs and
33:28
so those guys that, yeah, it's true that the companies they
33:31
don't ya. So, you know, that kind of
33:34
happened to the guy that started this place, you know.
33:37
He he had, you know, he had a vision and no one's going to
33:40
stop his vision. And the board was like, hey, we
33:43
need to do this. He was like, I'm not doing that.
33:46
I'm doing what I want to do and there was Like a power move
33:50
where he said well, if if you guys are going to basically, you
33:55
know, I'm ad-libbing a lot, you know.
33:58
Basically it was like, if you guys are going to let me, what
34:00
you are going to do, you figure it out and I think he thought
34:04
that if he kind of moved back, they would call him back and
34:08
say, hey, but what they ended up doing was, they let him move
34:13
back and then they empowered me to run the program and and then
34:18
they just never know. I never called him back and you
34:22
know he unfortunately passed away a couple years ago, he was
34:26
an older gentleman. He was in his 70s when he passed
34:28
away but you know I have I have very fond memories of the guy,
34:34
you know, in the biblical Counseling World you guys are
34:39
anybody that knows biblical counseling those Jay Adams and
34:41
he's got this reputation of being this mover and Shaker and
34:46
you know, really said, hard things that I never met the man.
34:49
I've seen In like two videos of them.
34:51
I don't I just hear this. This caricature of him a lot but
34:57
but, you know, one of the things I hear, people say some of my
35:00
professors, you know, it took a guy like that to kind of start a
35:04
movement like this, you know, and I describe the guy that
35:08
started Freedom Farm, it took a guy like him to start only, you
35:12
know, you can see God's wisdom and starting with him.
35:15
But when it was time to transition to a new like, you
35:19
know, That's where we lost him and I took over.
35:22
But but where where? I got involved in the biblical
35:26
Counseling World in and whatnot, you got to understand when I was
35:30
at bible college, they they actually have a degree in
35:34
Psychology there but it's integrated right and I had I was
35:39
an RA there and one of my ra buddies had had given me as an
35:45
RA a quick scripture reference guide and He said, have you ever
35:50
heard of new thetic, counseling Jim?
35:52
And I was like, no and he goes well we just used the Bible to
35:55
counsel people and that's all I understood, right?
35:58
And you know, I had seen psychiatrist and psychologist
36:02
you know before and this this started in my brain way back
36:06
then where I actually went to the director of the counseling
36:09
department there and asked him about Nu Theta counseling.
36:12
I said, do we teach new thetic counseling here at at our
36:14
school? And he said, no, we take the
36:17
Best of Both Worlds. That's how he explained it to
36:19
me. And Teach them together and as I
36:21
go and that's that's about the extent of it.
36:23
But but now fast-forward I'm you know, in by I'm here at Freedom
36:28
Farm and I'm running the place and you guys, I'm sure are aware
36:31
of the Gospel Coalition you know, publication and one of the
36:35
guys on our board had his twin brother was the executive
36:41
director of The Gospel Coalition.
36:43
So his twin brother came to town and we had coffee and that led
36:47
to an article being written. About the opioid epidemic in
36:51
America. It's like in 2015 or or maybe 16
36:56
or something. But anyway, they wrote an
36:58
article and they included me in it.
36:59
They interviewed me. And I was in this article and
37:01
the girl that wrote the articles Sarah zylstra she she said you
37:07
know privately to me she said you know Jim what do you hope
37:09
what do you hope to get out of? You know, this publication?
37:12
And I said well one, I hope people see that there are there
37:17
are people that are that are like biblically based.
37:19
He's trying to help addicts, you know, I hope that we get some
37:23
exposure there, but I also hope I meet other people doing this
37:26
because I didn't know anybody else.
37:29
So what ended up happening was that led me to some friends in
37:34
Minnesota that run a program called redemption house?
37:38
And they they were birthed out of John Piper's church over
37:42
there in Minnesota and actually, Ed Welsh has an advisor to the
37:48
Redemption house. And so, I And stay with those
37:50
guys and met them became friends and it was it was a pretty
37:53
amazing moment for me. It was like, like, hey, there's
37:56
three of us, you know, that the director over there and his and
38:00
his and his program manager who are just fantastic guys.
38:04
And I was like and then a few months later, Justin, the
38:08
program manager over there. He calls me and says, hey, are
38:11
you going to the addiction connection Summit?
38:14
And I said, well, what's that? And he said, it's where you need
38:18
to go, man. It's our So I went to the
38:21
addiction connection Summit, which was the second one they
38:23
ever had. And that's where I met Mark
38:26
Shaw. And that's that got me like
38:29
exposed to, you know, over 100 people that are doing this type
38:34
of work, and I was like, I met my people and ever since then,
38:39
actually, Mark, Mark Shaw is the one that that got me into a
38:44
program for masters of biblical counseling.
38:47
Which Which is a I was listening to NPR one day and it was about
38:54
addiction and programs in the United States and NPR was
38:58
basically making the case of how how addiction programs are the
39:03
Wild Wild West and there needs to be more regulation.
39:05
And one of the things they said was is that, you know, you can
39:09
go to a lot of addiction programs in this country and you
39:13
will go see a counselor, this not even that's not even
39:16
licensed to Bill insurance companies.
39:18
They that Was the case that they made.
39:21
So I got this fear that I needed to get credentialed to be able
39:26
to say that, you know, Freedom Farm has, you know, has legit
39:30
people counseling. So I looked up seminaries here
39:34
and Gordon-Conwell offered an integrated program and I talk to
39:38
somebody at Gordon-Conwell and and then I found out RTS had a
39:44
Biblical counseling program, but you wouldn't be licensed at the
39:49
bit. Who can?
39:49
So I called up Mark. And I said, hey man, what what
39:52
do you think? I said, I got these two options
39:55
but one of them, I get license in the other one.
39:57
I get, I don't, he said, well, look Jim, I could understand
40:00
your fear of wanting to make sure you have credentials to get
40:04
be, you know, Bill insurance companies and things like that.
40:06
He said, but I would, I would challenge you to think, you
40:12
know, maybe that world is falling apart and he says, and I
40:16
would rather just trust God for your provision.
40:19
And he says, and he goes. The other thing is, I know, I
40:22
know you enough to know that you'll go through a master's
40:24
degree at that program. And you'll, you'll have to sit
40:27
through hours and hours, and hours of classes that you'll
40:29
just be a melee disagree with and I said, okay, well, we'll go
40:34
there. So that's how I ended up in
40:36
pursuing a Biblical counseling degree and I believe, you're one
40:40
of your professors is Jim new Heiser, right?
40:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jim's a friend of just, yeah, of
40:47
our podcast. We got to interview him.
40:49
I think James has been going through all of his classes for
40:54
through I BCD. I think the world of Jindo
40:58
Heiser. I just think that he's one of,
41:00
you know, the they say the first generation has passed, you know,
41:04
most of them have passed on, you know, Bill goood and Jay Adams
41:09
and you know we lost David Palace and a few years ago.
41:14
Yeah. And I think that second
41:16
generation, Jim new houses right up there as one of the top guys.
41:19
I love that, man. He actually is going to be here
41:22
in six days we have a meeting. He's advising our church here
41:27
and how to start a Biblical counseling Ministry.
41:30
So, he's coming to our church at the end of the month of October
41:35
for our homecoming. So awesome.
41:37
Yeah, but something about it, you know, you you mentioned some
41:40
of those things. I'm sorry.
41:42
Go ahead, James. You talked about this is totally
41:56
Off Script but I just wanted to throw this out there because I
42:00
see this all the time going back and forth to work.
42:03
There's a huge billboard and it's a huge billboard.
42:07
Because at this part of this is sort of a selfish request
42:10
because I just love when you get fired up the connection podcast,
42:15
but there's a huge billboard that says need With addiction.
42:20
Try Suboxone. Oh, and another flash my buttons
42:24
John. Yeah, call this number right
42:26
now, and this is being advertised of people and you
42:29
have people driving down the road and their heart is hurting
42:32
because they have a loved one. That's, you know, that's is
42:34
facing addiction, maybe this can help Jim.
42:37
What is what is suboxone, okay? Suboxone is a form of
42:41
buprenorphine, okay, buprenorphine is the drug.
42:46
It's our modern-day version of of methadone but it's improved
42:51
if you don't know what methadone is.
42:53
Methadone is an opiate, it's a synthetic opiate okay that they
42:57
gave to people. I think it really became
43:00
popular. I think you can fact check me is
43:03
when when when people coming back from the Vietnam War and
43:07
what not, you know, there's a lot of heroin and addiction and
43:12
methadone is a is a replacement. And so basically it's a
43:18
synthetic made opieop It, you go to a clinic.
43:20
If you're a heroin addict in your given methadone, which will
43:26
stop you from feeling the withdrawal effects from heroin,
43:30
heroin has really bad withdrawal effects.
43:34
Like, if you are a heroin addict me, stop taking heroin, you, you
43:38
feel like you get the flu really bad for about a good solid week
43:42
where you can eat your throwing up, you have no energy, your
43:46
bones hurt. You're sweating everything, it's
43:48
miserable Yeah, but you know, once that's over then it's over,
43:52
you know, so heroin so bethadone was a way to to get people
43:58
through that. You know, and the idea was you
44:00
give people methadone and then you taper them down medically
44:04
and then once they once they get to a very, very low dose, then
44:09
that sickness and everything is much more manageable.
44:11
So you get that idea. The problem with methadone is is
44:16
that the the more you take the more More euphoric, you can get
44:21
so methadone. Like you can take more met like,
44:24
if you are, if you, if you are used to an amount of methadone,
44:29
right? If I'm taking 50 milligrams of
44:31
methadone and then and it doesn't, it doesn't make me feel
44:35
euphoric or high. If I take 60, I'll start feeling
44:39
high again, and if I take, if I get used to that, you know, I
44:42
built up a tolerance. So, buprenorphine has what's
44:47
called a ceiling effect, okay? Okay, what that means is that
44:51
once you become tolerant of buprenorphine, like once your
44:56
body gets used to it, you can take as much as you want and
44:59
you'll never get high again, okay?
45:03
But if you stop taking it, you will feel the withdrawal effects
45:09
from opiates, right, that. That's because it because
45:12
buprenorphine is a synthetic opiate that's what it is, okay?
45:18
So Buprenorphine seemed more reasonable to give to people
45:22
because people that were taking methadone.
45:24
Keep continue to up their dose and get high, whereas you cannot
45:27
do that with buprenorphine. So let's all just be fair.
45:31
It is that is a more effective drug, right?
45:34
Because once someone I've taken Suboxone dozens of times, right?
45:39
And like when I first started taking, I had no idea why people
45:43
like this stuff because didn't do anything to me.
45:45
All it did was it? I just didn't get sick.
45:47
I didn't feel high or anything like that.
45:49
At but it wasn't until years later where I had nothing for a
45:54
couple weeks. I've been sober for a couple
45:55
weeks where I took Suboxone where it got me completely.
45:59
Hi. You know, because I my tolerance
46:02
level had been reduced. So Suboxone is a form of
46:09
buprenorphine, that also includes another drug in it
46:13
called naloxone now, naloxone Blocks Your receptors, in your
46:18
brain. Being able to ingest other
46:21
opiates. So that's another benefit of
46:24
buprenorphine if you take Suboxone and then try to take
46:28
illicit opiates, they will not work on you.
46:31
So you stop people from being able to get high on other drugs
46:35
and the person that takes the Box on knows that but like they
46:38
know that I will just be throwing money down the drain
46:41
because I can buy these drugs off the street and will not work
46:44
on me. So that's the idea behind
46:46
Suboxone. There's other forms of Of
46:49
buprenorphine, there's one called subutex and there's a new
46:53
one called sub Luke Aid, which is a new form of buprenorphine
46:57
which is a one-month time-released shot.
47:00
So you get a shot once a month and you get the buprenorphine in
47:07
your system and the, I'm pretty sure it has no lock Stone in it
47:12
for in your good, for a month, which you know, in all intensive
47:16
purposes. If anybody's going to be Those
47:19
medications that one Probably sounds like the best one to take
47:23
because you're not having to go to a clinic on a daily basis to
47:27
get your drugs. You just take a shot
47:29
administered by a doctor once a month and that's it.
47:33
Your kind of your kind of blocked from being able to use
47:36
drugs. But the problem is, is that
47:39
you're not addressing the reason why people are wanting to use
47:41
drugs. Anyway, you know, so you know
47:45
what it is. It's a giant bandaid that people
47:48
are looking at. At as a solution.
47:51
It's not a solution. It's a Band-Aid, right?
47:55
There's an infection underneath, you want to talk medical terms,
47:58
right? If I just put a Band-Aid over an
48:00
infection and eventually affections going to come out.
48:04
I'm not going to say it over the air because I don't want to, I
48:06
don't want to but there are ways around the there's a ways around
48:11
what it does to your receptors and if you're a drug addict like
48:14
I was then you know, how to get around those things, there are
48:18
ways to To, to wipe your receptors clean.
48:21
And I'm not going to say anymore beyond that.
48:23
But anyway, this is the here is the insidiousness of it though.
48:29
Okay. Everybody here knows Purdue
48:32
Pharma and they've lost this giant lawsuit.
48:36
Multiple, and multiple companies, and all this money
48:38
billions and billions of dollars has gone to be distributed in
48:43
the United States. From these pharmaceutical
48:47
companies that made that. Made Oxycontin and and we're
48:53
we're, you know, just solely respond.
48:55
They were responsible for all these people having access to
49:00
these drugs that are extremely addictive.
49:02
So they lost all these lawsuits, but but but part of the lawsuits
49:09
are. So you guys are both from North
49:11
Carolina. North Carolina is receiving 850
49:15
million dollars from the opioid settlements, okay?
49:19
And there's 100 counties in North Carolina.
49:22
Each county has managers that have to apply for some of the
49:27
150 million dollars, that will be distributed over the next 10.
49:31
Or I think it's 10 years, the there, whatever they ask for,
49:36
will be distributed, but guess what?
49:38
80? I think it's like 85% of the
49:41
money request has to go towards Matt therapy, which is
49:45
medication-assisted therapy, which means that Which means
49:50
that you have to open up, buprenorphine clinics and give
49:53
people this medication, right? But look, this is, this is how
49:57
bad it gets that that medication.
50:00
I told you that is once a month, once a month shot supplicate,
50:03
guess who makes it? They'll tell me Purdue.
50:06
Purdue Pharma. Hey, let's take responsibility
50:14
for our problem over here by figuring out a plan that we can
50:17
make more money off of you. Yeah, and unfortunately, you
50:23
know, again, you know, I want to be, I want to try to be
50:28
compassionate to people that see this problem.
50:31
I mean, I watch a little thing. A friend of mine posted this
50:34
morning a nurse practitioner, and her town, and she was doing
50:37
this, PSA, she goes. Look, let me tell you something.
50:39
14 people died last night in our Hospital from fit and all 14
50:43
people, and 8 of them were under 15 years old.
50:47
Okay, this lady was freaking out.
50:49
Nowt on social media. And that's, that's the reality.
50:52
I mean, the amount of people dying right now, is, is
50:55
astronomical, right? Oh, yeah, I know.
50:58
Deputy deputy sheriff here. Who, you know, she's trying to
51:02
use Narcan on a fitting all OD and used the the told me that
51:10
the deputies carried two cans of Narcan, one for the person one
51:14
for themselves, in case they contract and start going into it
51:17
and he got reprimanded. As he used both cans of as
51:20
Narcan on the person because it was highly dangerous to himself.
51:25
Yeah. So so when you have people dying
51:30
like your Deputy friend, right? And when you have, when you're
51:33
seeing that, and if someone tells you well, I can give you a
51:35
drug that will make it hard for them to get high, you know,
51:39
you're like, okay, give it to him, you know, because it'll
51:43
make it hard for them to get high, but, you know, they're not
51:46
really fully explaining that it is a drug.
51:49
Itself. It is actually an opiate, you
51:51
know, you're not hearing all of that.
51:52
And if they were to stop taking that drug, they would go through
51:56
the same, if not worse effects that they would go through.
51:59
If they stop taking their up there, they're street drug,
52:01
right? They don't, they don't really go
52:03
into that discussion with you all.
52:04
They hear. All you hear is like, look, your
52:07
loved one, that's that shooting up heroin.
52:09
If we give them this drug, then they, that will make it very
52:12
hard for them to shoot up heroin and they won't get sick, they'll
52:16
be able to function, right? So so A lot of people that are
52:20
excited about that opportunity for people but they also don't
52:23
tell you that our death rate continues to increase.
52:26
So even with the accessibility of these drugs, the death rate
52:29
is going up every year. So is it really benefiting
52:33
anybody? It doesn't seem like it, it
52:36
mean, not at all. So, but on the other hand, one
52:42
of the biggest anomalies to the average person is a drug addict.
52:46
Like, it's so irrational. How do you help these people?
52:51
Right, because we've been told that if they go to these
52:54
meetings and they do these steps and things like that, that is
52:57
the, that is the best chance that they can get.
53:01
Whereas most people don't realize that.
53:04
That that there's really not a high success rate at all in
53:07
that, you know, and it never has been right there.
53:10
Never has been. So how that got promoted as like
53:14
this. That's the that's the way to get
53:17
help, you know. And so they're just It's a giant
53:20
mess, it's a giant mess and as people who get further and
53:24
further from confidence, that that God has given us.
53:28
What we need, everything we need for life and godliness that the
53:31
scriptures are sufficient as people get further and further
53:34
away from that, these problems will get bigger and bigger.
53:37
That's just that's just the facts of the matter.
53:40
And that's what the Bible says, you know, absolutely that's
53:44
awesome. I know, we're putting them in
53:47
the to it. Yeah, it's interesting.
53:50
You say that because we got one of those clinics here in.
53:55
I was there a county a methadone clinic and we met with the the
54:01
doctor that's in charge of it for years ago, right?
54:04
When I got here five years ago I met with him and talk with him
54:06
and I was new to the whole methadone and all that asked
54:11
them. I said hey man I said what's the
54:13
what's the end goal here? So are we achieving?
54:17
You know, sobriety It are we achieving, you know, what is it?
54:22
And he said oh, this is their life.
54:24
Yep, he said this is double on this risk, her life, I said hold
54:29
on. So you mean there's no way that
54:30
you're going to Tamper this down, get them all.
54:32
He said, no, he said why would I do that?
54:35
He said this is our life now. Yeah yeah.
54:38
Yeah. I'm glad you said that because
54:40
actually that the methadone programs started off to taper
54:44
people off and they've now they've bet that is no longer
54:47
protocol. I've been around.
54:50
I've been around. I've been in plenty of meetings
54:52
with people, and I've asked that question every time I say, you
54:55
know, how long does a patient take methadone or Suboxone?
54:59
And the answer is always the same as long as they need it.
55:03
It's always the as long as they need it, which yeah.
55:06
Is basically the rest of their life and if you ask anybody
55:09
that's ever been on those medications.
55:11
Well, I mean, I'm saying I'm making a lot of General
55:14
statements but, you know, I run into a lot of people that have
55:17
been prescribed us medication Asians.
55:19
And they all, they all tell you the same thing.
55:20
This is slavery. This is this is basically
55:23
slavery medicated slavery, you know?
55:26
And they don't have anything to do with it.
55:28
Have you guys you guys seen that?
55:30
That that miniseries called dope sick.
55:33
That's that's out in the middle of it.
55:36
Okay. So I don't want to spoil it for
55:38
you. I don't think I will spoil it
55:40
for you but they do a really good job.
55:42
You know, capturing what happened okay how this stuff
55:46
happened? But the one of the main Ders.
55:49
Michael Keaton is this little town.
55:52
Doctor innocent guy. That's just trying to help
55:54
people, right. That gets hooked on it himself.
55:58
Yeah, I got to that part. Okay, now, what you will see is
56:02
the solution that they give for Michael Keaton.
56:06
He goes to multiple rehabs, right?
56:09
I'm not spoiling the show for you by telling you this.
56:11
He goes to multiple rehabs and relapse is, as soon as he gets
56:14
out, because he can't stand the Cravings, right?
56:17
So, he Finds methadone right and then he finds Suboxone and it's
56:24
a miracle drug for him and he has to drive two hours away to
56:29
get his Suboxone because there aren't enough clinics to support
56:33
people. So he becomes the town Suboxone
56:37
savior buys a van and he's loading the van up with
56:41
everybody to go to the Suboxone Clinic, two hours away.
56:45
And like in like basically they make this argument At that here,
56:49
look, this guy is now off off the pills.
56:53
He's on this drug, but you won't give me his medical license back
56:56
because he takes this drug every day and that's discrimination.
56:59
So so the the show ends up becoming an apology for
57:04
suboxone. That's what it is, interesting
57:06
enough. Like I just told you who's the,
57:09
who's got, who's got the latest, and greatest form of
57:12
buprenorphine is the is the people that the show is all
57:16
about. Ooh, yeah, yeah.
57:18
So, it's crazy man, but get this.
57:23
Well, then we could go on for the next hour because this stuff
57:27
gets me gets me going. But Jim, maybe we could end with
57:33
this. Maybe some encouraging words to
57:36
anyone listening who either has struggling, or maybe I'd say
57:40
probably more likely scenario. Someone who has a loved one.
57:45
Who is an addict? Yeah.
57:47
Anybody listen to this. There are, there are people out
57:51
there on the phone lines like myself, you mentioned the
57:55
addiction connection podcast that do with Mark Shaw.
57:58
The addiction connection organization is just that it's a
58:01
networking Organization for people like me that are doing
58:05
this type of work and God is still in the business of
58:08
transforming Hearts, he still is doing it, and he is transforming
58:12
the addicted into New Creations, and he's helping people along
58:17
the way become new. People.
58:20
So there is hope out there, you can't lose hope God, God is
58:24
still faithful, his word is still active and like a
58:29
two-edged sword, getting down into the heart of the issue.
58:33
So you just, I don't want people to lose.
58:35
Hope if there's anybody out there, that needs help for a
58:38
loved one, you know, please reach out.
58:42
Freedom Farm Ministries dot-org. That's our website.
58:46
You can, you can get in touch with us.
58:47
Go to the Connection. And there's a list of resources
58:52
out there of people that can help.
58:55
So, there there is help out there for your loved ones.
59:00
But people, just like we said earlier, in the show, we got to
59:03
understand God is the one that changes Hearts, you know, God
59:07
can change hearts and he still does.
59:08
So, yeah. And even on the addiction
59:11
connection website will link the ignition connection website,
59:15
the, the podcast, Freedom Farm website, I will link all that to
59:20
the show notes, but they even have a list of if residential
59:23
program. Is, what do you think is needed?
59:26
They have a list of, you know, great residential programs from
59:30
across the country that you can look into the information and
59:33
and Jim Freedom Farm. It's you mentioned it at the
59:37
beginning. It's a one-year residential
59:39
program. May be say 1 bit about why the
59:43
one year and as I do you do you do for men and women?
59:48
We do. Yeah.
59:49
Okay, the winds program is much smaller than the men's program.
59:53
I only have two women there right now, whereas the men's
59:55
program I have 184 right now in our men's program.
1:00:00
So, but but the one year I always like to tell people
1:00:05
there's nothing magic about a year.
1:00:07
Okay? There's nothing magic about a
1:00:08
year but you know, the more experienced someone can get in
1:00:14
life addressing their besetting. Sins in a controlled
1:00:20
environment, the better, you know, for a sin that skirt
1:00:24
created, this much havoc in your life.
1:00:26
You know, some people need to be kind of locked down and have
1:00:30
just constant tension. Kent attention because the, the
1:00:35
only real way they're going to to learn, right?
1:00:41
How to how to walk differently is to have the chances to do so,
1:00:46
right? I can't I can't Officially
1:00:49
create that. What I can do is keep people
1:00:52
here for a period of time and given them the most of the
1:00:55
opportunity to do that, you know, life continues to happen
1:00:58
for people here and then they're around people that can as they
1:01:03
as they get challenges of life, which is a lot of times where
1:01:07
their escape into addiction came from, they didn't know how to
1:01:10
deal with life. They know how to incorporate God
1:01:13
or his ways into it. So so they escaped because of
1:01:17
failure into Addictions, so you're getting more and more
1:01:20
opportunities as life happens here to do that.
1:01:23
You know, we don't kick people out after 12 months.
1:01:29
We just want people to commit for a year when they come, you
1:01:31
know, just to get out of their mind that they're going
1:01:33
anywhere. And, you know, I went to, like I
1:01:36
said to begin the show, I went to a ton of programs 30 days 90
1:01:39
days and all they are, is there a bubble for a little while you
1:01:43
like in this little bubble and you feel great and you leave
1:01:47
after 90 days. And then Then reality sets in
1:01:49
and it's like whoa, you know, so we try to try to try to pop that
1:01:55
bubble there. I mean, there's always a sense
1:01:58
of a bubble when you're living in a program or something like
1:02:00
that, but you try to you try to ease more easily transition
1:02:04
people back into everyday life as much as possible.
1:02:07
Right. I can't remember if it was you
1:02:10
or CJ that talked about. They can almost sort of predict,
1:02:13
like clockwork at about the, the two and a half, maybe three
1:02:18
months. Mark, they have someone come in
1:02:20
and says, I think I'm good. I think I'm ready to go.
1:02:22
Oh yeah, yeah. And it's just like and then he
1:02:26
whether it was you or CJ begin to explain why, you know, your
1:02:30
it's not just a 30 days to change a habit, right?
1:02:34
You know, it's 30 days change of habit, another 60 days to create
1:02:38
new habits. And then another couple of
1:02:41
months to just get acclimated to life like this, like your new
1:02:46
life now. Right?
1:02:48
Right. Right and I agree with that
1:02:50
100%. Yeah the more the more the
1:02:54
better, you know the more time the better you know, it's hard
1:02:57
enough getting people to commit to a year you know, but once
1:03:01
they get here and it's like, hey, that was a year went by
1:03:04
already that was that was quick, you know?
1:03:08
James, you got anything any last bits or anything?
1:03:11
So it's been great talking with you.
1:03:14
Jim and I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed hearing your Insight
1:03:18
and I think I hope our listeners get a lot of this, especially if
1:03:22
they've got some of the struggle with this, I know that in my
1:03:24
family, I've got people in my family that are struggling with
1:03:27
addictions John, he shared at the beginning of the show, he's
1:03:31
got family that I think it were in the society right now, where
1:03:34
everyone's got know someone who's struggling with this, this
1:03:37
sort of Of addiction, whether it be drugs, alcohol, sex
1:03:42
addictions, whatever may be. And these are all forms that the
1:03:46
Bible addresses of how there is a heart issue that we can we can
1:03:49
go to a time. Well, I didn't realize you were
1:03:52
as close as you were to me, we need to get together.
1:03:54
And yeah, when we can partner and do some stuff, our church
1:03:57
with you guys and help out wherever we can.
1:04:01
And so look forward to being with you guys hopefully soon and
1:04:05
yeah, I'll get to meet Jim and person and a couple Weeks at the
1:04:09
in Memphis. Yeah, it's great.
1:04:11
Are you gonna be there? Memphis, I was going to, but I'm
1:04:15
hoping tonight tonight, they're presenting to the church for me
1:04:20
to go to Israel for the, in January, with our RFP guys.
1:04:25
And so, if that if that gets approved, then I have lost all
1:04:28
my time to do anything else. So I won't be able to go.
1:04:32
All right? James went last year when it was
1:04:34
in North Carolina and I was planning on going to that.
1:04:37
I had three people people in our church going the hospital
1:04:39
different like in the same week. So I had to cancel that stay
1:04:43
home and and watched it online and so this year we've swapped
1:04:48
he cease not going to be there but I'm going to be there with.
1:04:51
I'm actually walking. I'm in the ceremony.
1:04:55
Okay, awesome. Yeah.
1:04:57
So pretty excited about it. Pretty excited.
1:05:00
Jim thank you so much for your time and thank you for doing
1:05:02
this. I think that I know that we
1:05:03
focused on addictions but I think there was so much said
1:05:05
that it's just like helpful for anybody in any Earlier Carrie of
1:05:09
life. You know what that's the part of
1:05:11
the the issue that I try to help clarify the people you know
1:05:14
addictions not a special problem you know it's a it's a matter of
1:05:18
the heart it's in problem and God's solution for it is the
1:05:21
same for all our sin problems, you know.
1:05:25
Absolutely absolutely. Thank you so much and guys,
1:05:29
that's it. And until next time to God, not
1:05:33
the pastor, be the glory. Thanks for listening.
1:05:38
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