Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / DESPERATE SEARCH FOR BABY AFTER YOUNG MOM REBECCA, 22, FOUND DEAD IN WOODS, INFANT CUT FROM STOMACH

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DESPERATE SEARCH FOR BABY AFTER YOUNG MOM REBECCA, 22, FOUND DEAD IN WOODS, INFANT CUT FROM STOMACH · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the desperate search goes on
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: for a baby after a young mom to be, Rebecca,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: just twenty two years old, is found dead in a
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: heavily wooded area, her infant cut from her stomach. What
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: gules would do this? Can you say death penalty? Because
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I can. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Rebecca Park, a twenty two year old mother from Wexford County,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: is eagerly anticipating the arrival of her third child. She
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: is a devoted mom of two young boys, but as
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: her due date approaches, Rebecca misses the birth of her
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: baby and vanishes.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: It's overwhelming. It's overwhelming to me. A twenty two year
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: old mom to be just days away from giving birth disappears,
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  Speaker 1: her body found in a heavily wooded area. At first,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: all we knew was the baby wasn't there. Now we
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: know the baby has been cut from her stomach, leaving
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the mom to die bleed out in the woods. Where's
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the baby? Straight out to Professor Forensic's death investigator Joseph
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and start of a hit podcast,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Bodybacks of Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, this is not
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the first time we have seen this scenario, and you
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: and I both remember the first time it came to
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the forefront of national headlines, and it was in the
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Scott Peterson case when one of the theories that defense
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: attorney Mark gre Goes floated out there, I believe you
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: first put it out there on the Larry King Show
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  Speaker 1: to just see test the waters and it bombed was
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: that someone had taken Lacy, had cut the baby out
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of her stomach, Connor baby boy Connor, and that the
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: whole thing was about getting the baby and possibly selling
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: the baby. And we were all like, no, that would
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: never happen. That's too far fetched. Well, Joe Scott, it's
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: not too far fetched. So can a baby live when
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: it's there's I think Rebecca only had a few days
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: before she was set to deliver. Could the baby live
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: if it's cut out of the mom's stomach.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Sure, you're talking about a mother that's the baby is
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: at a thirty allegedly at a thirty eight week gestational age.
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  Speaker 3: That's well beyond survivability. You know, when you begin to
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: think about this, it's certainly possible, it's plausible that this
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: could happen.
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  Speaker 4: It.
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  Speaker 3: I got to tell you, Nancy, out of all the
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  Speaker 3: cases that we've covered in recent memory, this is one
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  Speaker 3: of the most horrific when you begin to think about
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: what she endured. So yes, with a child like this,
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  Speaker 3: I have no other way to put it. You can
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: have ghoules, as you put it out there, that would
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: want to go and harvest a baby in order to
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: sell it on the market, and that can that is plausible,
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  Speaker 3: I think, and I think that that's something that needs
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: to be explored in this case.
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  Speaker 1: Scott, you cannot be more correct. Sadly, the case recovering tonight,
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  Speaker 1: I've Rebecca set to give birth in just days, found
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  Speaker 1: dead baby cut out of stomach. Is not the first
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: time this scenario has played out. I don't know if
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: you recall Michelle Wilkins. I remember listen.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: Codder sentenced Dinelle Lane to one hundred years in prison
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  Speaker 5: for faking her own pregnancy than luring Michelle Wilkins into
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  Speaker 5: her home and cutting wilkins almost full term baby out
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  Speaker 5: of her womb.
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  Speaker 6: I've never seen a case as vicious, as cruel, as deliberate,
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  Speaker 6: and as awful as this case.
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  Speaker 5: Because of Colorado laws, the majority of charges in this
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  Speaker 5: case were related to Wilkins' injuries, not the harm inflicted
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  Speaker 5: on the unborn child.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: That from C H H C V jy on TikTok
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  Speaker 1: a perfect capsulation, But in this case, Michelle Wilkins actually
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  Speaker 1: lived long enough to call nine one one. Listen address
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: of your emergency.
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  Speaker 7: Okay, what tell me what happened?
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  Speaker 8: Who cut you?
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  Speaker 1: I don't know?
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  Speaker 7: Okay, hangd on, hold on, please, there's okay.
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  Speaker 4: Who cut you?
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  Speaker 6: This girl.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: To Dave Mac joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I understand in that case, Michelle Wilkins had gone online
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: to a baby chat group. How did she meet her killers?
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  Speaker 1: Dave mac?
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  Speaker 4: The killer actually lured her with maternity clothes. Come on buy,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: I'll hook you up.
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  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 4: One of those things that happens in those chat rooms
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  Speaker 4: is they're women who are going through the same thing
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  Speaker 4: at the same time, and they quickly bond. And that's
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  Speaker 4: how she lured her over and invited her into the house.
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  Speaker 4: Up until the moment she's attacked. She thinks she's there
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  Speaker 4: to pick up some maternity.
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  Speaker 1: Clothes to Randolph Rice, adjoining us, a former prosecutor or,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: current criminal defense attorney and civil lawyer at Rice's law,
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  Speaker 1: what do you do? How do you defend gules like this? Now?
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  Speaker 1: In this case, the mom lived, and all the other
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: cases we are covering tonight, the mom died, and in
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  Speaker 1: many of them the baby died.
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  Speaker 9: My first question, Nancy, is is was this a natural
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  Speaker 9: birth that somehow went wrong? And maybe maybe Rebecca Park
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  Speaker 9: was trying to cut the baby out herself. That may
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  Speaker 9: be a defense.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, what did you just say?
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  Speaker 9: It's possible in this situation, as a defense attorney that
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  Speaker 9: they may argue that this was somehow in natural birth
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  Speaker 9: that Rebecca Park may have potentially tried to cut the
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  Speaker 9: baby out herself.
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  Speaker 1: Randolph Rice, Okay, don't ruin your currently stellar reputation. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: because to believe what you just said would mean that
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  Speaker 1: Rebecca Park goes out in a heavily wooded area and
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  Speaker 1: chooses the dirt on the ground to perform a self
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  Speaker 1: induced cesarean section? Is that what your climbing would be
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  Speaker 1: a great defense.
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  Speaker 9: I'm open to all defenses right now, Nancy, because I
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  Speaker 9: just don't know enough information, and this is the thing
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  Speaker 9: that the defense attorney has to explore. They're going to
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  Speaker 9: have to figure out was this natural? Was this intentional?
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  Speaker 9: Or is this caused by somebody else? And we don't
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  Speaker 9: know who that somebody else may be because that person
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  Speaker 9: may not be around or the victim. Rather, kids speak
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  Speaker 9: and tell us who did this?
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  Speaker 1: If that's the case, Yes, because she's dead. To Allan
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Lingle joining us, Alan, thank you for being with us tonight.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: He's the editor at Deadline Detroit. It's an online daily
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  Speaker 1: formerly with the Washington Post, Alan, again, thank you for
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: being with us. In response to what Randolph Rice said,
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  Speaker 1: and please don't hold it against him because very often
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  Speaker 1: defense attorneys are between a rock and hardspot. Okay, their
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  Speaker 1: client is charged with murdering the mom. The mom is
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  Speaker 1: lying out in a wooded area, densely wooded area, with
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  Speaker 1: her stomach cut open. What else can he argue? Tonight?
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  Speaker 1: They're looking for the baby, if it survived. Could you
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  Speaker 1: describe for Randolph Rice the location where, Oh, my stars,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: you just had to hit me with that. There's a sonogram.
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  Speaker 1: There is Rebecca's sonogram for the baby boy, for her
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  Speaker 1: little baby boy. She had already picked out the name
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Richie Baby Richie. The name was discovered by friends of Rebecca's.
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  Speaker 1: Richard Scott Lee was to be his full name. Is
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: he still alive, so you know, Alan Langele, if you
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  Speaker 1: could explain to Randolph Rice the location where Rebecca's body
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  Speaker 1: was found sliced open. I doubt very seriously that she
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  Speaker 1: chose a heavily wooded area to give birth.
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  Speaker 7: She was.
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  Speaker 1: To top it.
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  Speaker 6: All, she was found in the Mannissee National Forest up
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  Speaker 6: in northern Michigan, which is a beautiful area. People go there,
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  Speaker 6: uh during the better during the summer months for canoeing, camping, fishing.
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  Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's it's a beautiful place. It's a rural,
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  Speaker 6: very rural area, and people from all around the state
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  Speaker 6: and from Illinois in Ohio come, uh come up there
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  Speaker 6: and in the winter they're skiing up that way. It's
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  Speaker 6: a beautiful forest. I mean if but I mean the
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  Speaker 6: I mean the fact it is just a punch a
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  Speaker 6: little hole into that defense is that if if the
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  Speaker 6: abortion or if the birth went wrong, why would you
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  Speaker 6: leave the body? Uh and you know, abandoned the body there. Uh,
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  Speaker 6: there's no you would call you would call for help.
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  Speaker 6: You would call for emergency, you know, ems or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: Who would call for help an emergency? Are you talking
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  Speaker 1: about the pregnant mother?
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  Speaker 6: But oh no, no, the people, if they will.
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  Speaker 1: I asked you to describe the location, sure where Rebecca died?
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  Speaker 1: Was she bled out right? I don't even believe I'm
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  Speaker 1: having this discussion, but I guess I have to under
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  Speaker 1: Randolph Rice's theory that she voluntarily naturally gave birth or
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  Speaker 1: plan to give birth out in this federal forest. Okay,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: you're talking about how beautiful it is. Could you tell
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  Speaker 1: me you were talking about camping and fishing and swimming.
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  Speaker 1: What's the temperatary out there right now tonight, Alan Lingle.
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  Speaker 6: Tonight, it's probably, I mean up north there, it's probably
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  Speaker 6: in the low teens. I mean right now, it's very cold,
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  Speaker 6: and all of Michigan, and in northern Michigan it's usually colder,
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  Speaker 6: so it's pretty pretty frigid weather there.
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  Speaker 1: Alan, it's sixteen degrees at night where she was found.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, let me go to doctor
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  Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz, the only other woman joining me tonight on
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  Speaker 1: the panel. Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensic psychologists specializing in cases
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  Speaker 1: just like this. She's ad panthermitigation dot com. She's a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: prolific author, but one of them, and my favorite, it's
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: where law and psychology intercept doctor Sherry Schwartz. What woman
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  Speaker 1: in her right mind would go out in sixteen degree
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  Speaker 1: temperature and give birth in the dirt in the forest alone,
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  Speaker 1: then realize she needs to see section and cut the
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  Speaker 1: baby out. This is insane.
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  Speaker 10: It is insane, and only if she was actively psychotic
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  Speaker 10: would she even entertain anything like that. But I haven't
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  Speaker 10: heard any reports that she suffered from any sort of mental.
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  Speaker 11: Illness like that.
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  Speaker 10: Again, we don't have a lot of information, but that's highly,
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  Speaker 10: highly unlikely.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we were talking earlier with Dave mac Joscott
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  Speaker 1: Morgan about how one victim had been lured in one
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  Speaker 1: of those online chat rooms about giving birth and that
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  Speaker 1: is where her killers met her. But very often the
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  Speaker 1: killer is someone known by the victim. Joscott, I don't
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  Speaker 1: know if you recall another similar victim, Marlon a Choa Lopez.
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  Speaker 12: Listen, these two killed the pregnantine and cut the baby
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  Speaker 12: out of her womb and took it for themselves. Marlin
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  Speaker 12: Achoa Lopez was part of a Facebook group for pregnant
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  Speaker 12: mothers and they were all kind of like a support
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  Speaker 12: group with each other. She became friends with this lady
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  Speaker 12: right here, name is Clarissa Figaroa. They became friends. They
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  Speaker 12: came over for tea one day, so Ochoa Lopez went
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  Speaker 12: over to Figaroa's for tea and that was the last
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  Speaker 12: time everyone heard from her. Desire Figaroa is her daughter
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  Speaker 12: on the right, and she helped murder this pregnantine and
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  Speaker 12: cut the baby out of her womb.
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  Speaker 1: That is from here andersingh on TikTok, Joscott, I want
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  Speaker 1: you to hear the rest of the fact. To Dave
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  Speaker 1: mac these two invite the pregnant mom over for tea
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  Speaker 1: and she ends up dead. What happened in that scenario.
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  Speaker 4: In this particular case, the pretense was they were offering
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  Speaker 4: her free baby clothes. And you know, for many new
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: mothers that's a big priority. You've got to have child
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: clothing for the does get expensive, and so Mary Lincoln
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: was excited at the opportunity to get some free clothing.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: That's how they got her in there.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Back to you, Joe Scott Morgan, knowing what you now know,
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  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about what exactly happened
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  Speaker 1: in the case in chief tonight, the search is ongoing
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  Speaker 1: for her little baby Richie, if he survived, and I
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: would think that his body would have been found by
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: now if he had died in the process. Could you
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: explain to me how this happened. How would an amateur
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: or cceyrians section take place? And we have reason to
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: believe that Rebecca was alive when the baby, baby Richie,
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  Speaker 1: was torn from her uterus.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Hey, that was a really beautiful area in Michigan there.
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  Speaker 3: I've actually been there fishing before, one of the most
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  Speaker 3: lovely areas in the United States. But I got to
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: tell you something, Nancy. You know what, I didn't see
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: a labor and delivery room. I didn't see an area
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: that is prepped in order to facilitate a cesarean. So
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: what are you going to do this with? Well, in
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: order to do this, I doubt that they're going to
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: show up with retractors. They're not going to have scalpels,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: They're probably not going to have surgical scissors, these sorts
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: of things. So they're going to use tools at hand
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  Speaker 3: that they have. We're talking about things like knives, that
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: you bring in from home, any kind of other cutting
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: instrument that might be available, and they're going to leave
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: her out there. They're going to take her at that
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: spot perhaps and extricate this baby from her womb. Now
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: they probably know enough that they're going to have to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: keep her alive so that the child is going to
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: be viable. And that is a very, very tough passage
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: to go through, because if you do not have medical
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: training to facilitate this, you're not only going to have
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: a dead mom, you're going to have a dead baby
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: on your hand. If the the purpose of this is
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: to take this child and sell it on the market,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: there's gonna be evidence that's left behind. Also, to go
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: back to this idea that this may have been some
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: kind of natural birth, we all know, for those of
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: us that are not in the medical field that I've
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: been present for the birth of all of my precious children.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: We do know that if it's a vaginal delivery, you've
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: also got to push out the placenta. You're gonna be
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: looking for an umbilical cord, those sorts of things. So
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: you can kind of go back and examine the scene
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: from that perspective to see what is left behind. It's
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: not just what is taken, it's what's left behind. And
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: the trauma Nancy that she sustained out there on that filthy,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: filthy ground in that beautiful forested area is something that
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: we cannot even begin to calculate.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And joining me right now is Dan Murphy, former NYPD
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: detective sergeant. He was on the Joint Terrorism Task Force,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: former chief security officer at US Bank Corp. And he
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: is the co host star of gold Shields podcast. He's
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: also an author. Dan You and I Joe Scott. Many
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: people on the panel tonight have cast iron stomachs. We
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: have to after what we've seen on crime scenes. But
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I want to brace you for what you're about to
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: hear regarding the victim in the case and chief there
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: are two victims. There's Rebecca about to give birth twenty
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: two years old, and there's her baby, baby Richie. We
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: don't know where he is tonight. Okay, I want you
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to hear what one of the witnesses says that has
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: seen the body, and brace yourself.
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: I'm going to walk up to her and yes, the
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: animals have eight at her cheek, Her faces are there,
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: the animals stomach and so I don't think so, I
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: don't think I got this quote.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, whe it's okay, okay from Jack's s on TikTok,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Dan Murphy. Other than this beautiful girl, she's twenty two,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Dan about to give birth, just days away from giving
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: birth out there in the woods. Her stomach got it open,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: and these witnesses are describing how there has been, as
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott likes to say, animal activity on her body.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: To top it all off, animals have gotten to her
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: out in the wilderness that all of our guests are
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: describing these beautiful, idealic Federal forest. I can't see it
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: that way after what I know happened to Rebecca there.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: But the way this girl was brutalized the one thing
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I'm learning of note to the brutality that was inflicted
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: on this pregnant mom and b number one number two,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the baby's gone. The baby was not there. Somebody took
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the baby, Dan Murphy, have you ever seen anything like it?
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Including all your years at NYPD.
• 18:24
  Speaker 13: This would have to be up there with the most
• 18:27
  Speaker 13: horrific the scenes I've ever seen, if not worse. Having
• 18:31
  Speaker 13: not seen images but hearing the descriptions is enough. This
• 18:34
  Speaker 13: is the stuff that makes even veteran detectives want to
• 18:38
  Speaker 13: have a drink or five on the way home afterwards,
• 18:40
  Speaker 13: because this is so you want to wash it out
• 18:43
  Speaker 13: of your brain.
• 18:43
  Speaker 14: It's so horrible.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: This is what.
• 18:46
  Speaker 13: Reminds you that um beings are capable of unbelievable, unfathomable
• 18:51
  Speaker 13: acts of violence against each other. This is one that
• 18:54
  Speaker 13: would stick with whoever was at that scene for the
• 18:56
  Speaker 13: rest of their lives.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Dan Murphy, you, this is a kind of case that
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: makes you want to have one or five drinks after work.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I remember being so upset, distraught when I would leave
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the courthouse. Of course I couldn't let a jury see.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I would have to pull my car over. I'd go
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to the parking deck, load up all my stuff I
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: didn't dare leave in the courtroom, load everything up, get
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: in the car, drive away from the building, away from
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the parking lot so no one connected to the case.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Then I would pull over and stop the car and
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: just feel sick or cry or just try to just
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: sit there and process what had happened. And that's how
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I feel about what happened to Rebecca in this case.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: And the baby is still missing.
• 19:50
  Speaker 13: Dan, I can totally relate to what you talked about
• 19:56
  Speaker 13: as your experience, and I know a lot of people
• 19:58
  Speaker 13: can relate to it too, if you have children, if
• 20:03
  Speaker 13: you are a parent, if you care about the sanctity
• 20:07
  Speaker 13: of life. This is shocking to the core, absolutely shocking
• 20:11
  Speaker 13: to the core. And even just reading about this story
• 20:15
  Speaker 13: can give someone experience such as myself, chills. It's a
• 20:18
  Speaker 13: it's a a cold hard reminder of just how brutal
• 20:23
  Speaker 13: people can be to each other. And this is this
• 20:26
  Speaker 13: is a depth not reached often in terms of that cruelty.
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: I'm going to walk up to her and yes, the
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: animals have eight adr cheeks, but the faces are there,
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: the animals.
• 20:36
  Speaker 8: Stomach and there.
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: I don't think so, I don't think I got I
• 20:42
  Speaker 7: got this quote. I mean it's.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. Bomb jack'sess on TikTok Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Days before she is expected to give birth, Rebecca is
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: last scene stepping into a dark colored vehicle outside her
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: biological mother's home. Questions arise about who is behind the
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: wheel and where they take her?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Number one, where is baby Richie? And number two? Who
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: did this? What ghoul? What depraved ghoul would take a
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: young mom to be just days away from giving birth
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: out into the wilderness and cut her stomach open, even
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: saying the words are shocking. And believe me, I'm not numb.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: After all the cases I've investigated, prosecuted, and covered, I'm
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: not numb. But when you look at a case like this,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I'm sure you agree with me. You have
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: to hold it together. You got to keep it together
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: to get through the probative. In other words, they mean
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: something facts and prove your case. In this case, holding
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: it together until you find the baby. Then you can
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: go home and fall apart, or as Dan Murphy said,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: go have one or five drinks.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with Dan that you have to. From
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: my perspective, you have to follow the science and stay
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: with it because if you look around you and you
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: look at what's before you relative to the humanity that
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: in dwells that space, it'll drive you to utter madness.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: But the key here is going to be the science. Nancy.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: I think you have to be relying upon that to
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: understand what happened to her. First off, I want to
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: understand what are the kinds of injuries might she have
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: had on her body, other than say, for instance, this
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: horrible incision that she's going to have over her lower abdomen.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: I want to know if she was tortured in any way.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I want to know if she was compelled in any
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: way to wind up in this location. Was she beaten,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: was she cut? Was she stabbed, was she shot? Was
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: she bludgeoned in any way? I want to try to
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: understand that, And there in is going to rest some
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: of the answers Nancy. Even in the state that she's in,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: and if memory serves me correctly, we're talking potentially several
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: weeks down the road since she was last seeing alive.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Did you know, even as badly as she may have
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: been decomposed, we will still be able to figure out
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: these wound tracks relative to the hemorrhage that dwells these sites,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Because if there is hemorrhage, that's going to give us
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: an indication that she sustained anti mortem injuries. And plus
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: in the throes of having the baby removed, that's called
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: a perry mortem injury, there will still be hemorrhage there
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: and that will tell the tale.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, just got morgan to remove a baby in
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: this manner. Of course, when a propers is hearing is
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: done in the hospital. The cut is I don't know,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: four inches, Maybe it's horizontal, w way low down on
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: your stomach. I imagine amateurs would do a vertical cut
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: from say the brawl line down to the pubic here,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: just cut the stomach open. So if and I'm guessing
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I'm hypothesizing that is the way they did it. If
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: they did make the vertical cut I'm describing, yep, wouldn't
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that sever and artery? I mean, how long would she
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: have been able to live?
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: There's multiple vessels that would be severed. And not to
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: mention if you go with this idea that it could
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: have been a vertical incision. Now you're talking about getting
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: into the bowel. Okay, just think about that because with
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: cesarean one of the reasons it's done more in a
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: southerly direction anatomically is you avoid that, all right? And
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: trust me, our medical professionals have been doing this for
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: years and years and years and years. They understand the
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: nature of the anatomy involved here. That's not something that
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: would be done in a clinical environment. So if you're
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: at a very rudimentary level, a barbaric level, that's what
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: you're going to be looking at. You're going to talk
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: about erupting a multitude of vessels in there. You're going
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: to be talking about damaging the bowl, which also has
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: its own blood supply. So yeah, she would bleed out
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: in this environment. That's really no surprise here. And I
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: think that when all is revealed, you're going to begin
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: to understand the horror that she endured during this event,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: and there's really not going to be any words to
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: try to describe it. I think if and when the
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: scene makes it to trial, if it makes it to trial,
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: you're going to see something presented to a jury and
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: or to a judge that is going to shock them
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: to their core.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 25:44
  Speaker 8: And we just had them take us to whatever the
• 25:47
  Speaker 8: video that they wanted to show.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Us, and.
• 25:51
  Speaker 8: The sun or the young boy or the twenty year
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: old did not want the dad to go up and
• 25:57
  Speaker 8: ask if I could go up and see if it
• 26:00
  Speaker 8: was a mass or if it was really somebody and
• 26:03
  Speaker 8: it was Rebecca.
• 26:04
  Speaker 14: November twenty fifth, on a trail directly behind the home
• 26:07
  Speaker 14: of biomm Bartholomew, a volunteer finds the body of Rebecca.
• 26:11
  Speaker 14: Investigators not releasing the condition of the body or if
• 26:14
  Speaker 14: a newborn has been found. Rebecca was expected to give
• 26:17
  Speaker 14: birthdays before her body was located.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: That from up North live. Let's start at the beginning tonight.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: The search is on for Rebecca's baby boy, Richie, we
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: now know cut out of her stomach. How did this
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: whole thing start? Who is Rebecca? Listen?
• 26:38
  Speaker 14: Child Protective Services called to save Rebecca from her biological mother,
• 26:42
  Speaker 14: Courdy Bartholomew. Placed with foster mother, Stephanie Park. When parental
• 26:45
  Speaker 14: rights are terminated, Stephanie adopts Rebecca. Rebecca flourishes in the
• 26:49
  Speaker 14: Park home and enjoys grandparents and extended family. Stephanie Park
• 26:53
  Speaker 14: knows Rebecca her mother is dangerous and tries to protect
• 26:56
  Speaker 14: Rebecca from reconnecting with her. Like many adopted children, Rebecca
• 27:00
  Speaker 14: is curious about her biological mother and the two reconnect
• 27:04
  Speaker 14: so too.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Renowned psychologist forensic psychologist doctor Sherry Schwartz, Doctor Sherry Rebecca
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: came from an abusive home, but very early on CPS
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: did the right thing and removed her, put her in
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: a foster home, and the foster mom adopted her and
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: kept her, gave her a forever home. Even though she
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: was extremely happy growing up, she became curious about who's
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: my biomom? What is that? I don't know that I
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: understand it, doctor Sherry Schwartz. Because Rebecca had everything. She
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: had a loving family, grandparents, cousins, all the love a
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: baby could have, but she had a curiosity about her
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: biomom who couldn't give a fig about her, got abused
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: her and then gave her up. But yet she was
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: curious to find that bio mom.
• 28:03
  Speaker 10: We all want to know where we came from, Nancy.
• 28:06
  Speaker 10: This is one of the fundamental biological drives to know
• 28:11
  Speaker 10: our roots, our ancestry. And in a case where a
• 28:14
  Speaker 10: child is given up pretty much at any age, or
• 28:18
  Speaker 10: the parent abandons them disappears, that drive is a bit stronger.
• 28:25
  Speaker 10: The kids want to know, you know, who is this
• 28:28
  Speaker 10: person and why did they give me up? It's natural
• 28:31
  Speaker 10: to think Rebecca maybe thought it had something to do
• 28:34
  Speaker 10: with her, So you want to talk to that person
• 28:37
  Speaker 10: if they're around, and find out why.
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Randolph Rice is joining US former prosecutor, current criminal defense attorney,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and civil lawyer who founded Rice's Law. I know that
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: your firm has been involved with adoptions. It seems to
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: happen all the time that the child wants to go
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: back and find the bioparents. And I think Randolph the
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: doctor Shery hit it on the head. They somehow think
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: my mom gave me up because I fill in the blank,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I was a bad baby, She didn't want me. They
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: somehow blamed themselves. Have you ever noticed that? And there
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: is just an inherent desire to find that bio mom.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Speaker 9: Typically the adoptions we handle the kids are very young,
• 29:21
  Speaker 9: but certainly as they get older, there is that curiosity,
• 29:24
  Speaker 9: the curiosity that they want to find out who their
• 29:27
  Speaker 9: parents are, who their backstory is, where'd that come from?
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: Maybe?
• 29:30
  Speaker 9: Who were my grandparents? And this is so important because
• 29:33
  Speaker 9: it fulfills that void that they're trying to fill in
• 29:35
  Speaker 9: life of trying to get that the answers is to
• 29:38
  Speaker 9: who am I?
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I find it interesting to you, Dan Murphy, that the
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: adoptive mom has a premonition. She says, your biomm is trouble,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: don't reconnect, don't do it. But yet Rebecca was hell
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: bent she wanted to find the biomm Have you ever
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: had cases I have where witnesses have had some sort
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: of a I don't know, an emotional or mental warning,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a premonition, so to speak, and it's poo pooed. Nobody
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: pays any attention to it.
• 30:14
  Speaker 13: Nancy. Countless times I've dealt with victims of crime who've survived,
• 30:18
  Speaker 13: and I've seen cases where people haven't where their intuition
• 30:21
  Speaker 13: or their intuition for another person's protection has kicked in
• 30:25
  Speaker 13: and their radar has been going off and they've ignored it.
• 30:27
  Speaker 13: And many times I've had victims of crime tell me,
• 30:30
  Speaker 13: you know, from hospital beds, I had a feeling about
• 30:33
  Speaker 13: that guy. I don't know why I let him in
• 30:35
  Speaker 13: the door. I don't know why I did this. I
• 30:37
  Speaker 13: don't know why I did that. But our intuition exists
• 30:40
  Speaker 13: for one reason, and that's to protect us. Now, in
• 30:42
  Speaker 13: a case like this, a mother's intuition, even an adopted
• 30:46
  Speaker 13: mother's intuition is strong. She knows the history, and she
• 30:50
  Speaker 13: relayed that to her. Sometimes you have to let people
• 30:54
  Speaker 13: find their own way, but this is a case that
• 30:56
  Speaker 13: is not unusual to that extent. People feel that parents
• 31:00
  Speaker 13: feel it strongly for those they love, and we can
• 31:03
  Speaker 13: see things sometimes that people themselves can't.
• 31:05
  Speaker 14: See, feeling contractions. At thirty eight weeks pregnant, Rebecca goes
• 31:09
  Speaker 14: to the hospital November two even though her due date
• 31:11
  Speaker 14: is not until November eighteenth. An exam reveals she's either
• 31:15
  Speaker 14: run Samarns. Rebecca has two thousand dollars cash he receives
• 31:18
  Speaker 14: as an inheritance from family in preparation for her baby.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Her cell phone has discovered abandon along a desolate two
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: track road. Twenty one days after her disappearance, the unthinkable happens.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Rebecca's lifeless body is found in the remote depths of
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Manisty National Forest.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter. There you go. That
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: shoots Randolph Rice's theory that she had a natural birth,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: shoots it to Helen back, because who's going to go
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: through all that and their cell phone is not with them?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: You know, Dave Matt, We've seen that over and over again.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I guess you recall Alex Murdock right the hyper while
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: a lawyer now convicted of murdering his wife Maggie and
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: son Paul. Remember Maggie's phone was found not far away
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: from her body was found, and it was proven through
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: his Alex Murdogg's NAB system. Remember that he was driving
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: away from the murder scene, slowed down, let down the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: passenger side window throughout Maggie's cell phone, let the window
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: up and scratched off. That was probative where her cell
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: phone was found. Let's see another one. Kelsey Bareth remember
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: her killed by fiance Phrasy with the help of his mistress,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: the Rodeo Queen. Her cell phone pinged hundreds of miles
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: away where the two had tried to make it look
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: like she just left town, leaving behind her little girl
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to find for herself. So where the cell phone is found?
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt can sometimes be critical, but needless to say,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: in this case, Rebecca did not have her cell phone.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: It was abandoned.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Correct it was, and it was abandoned not far from
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: where her bio mom's house is. And here's the part
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: that really bothers me, Nancy, because the phone was found
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: on the first day they began the real search for her.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: And yet her body is found one hundred and fifty
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: yards from where her phone was, but we don't find
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: it for three weeks. It's in an area that's been searched.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: I mean, think about it. If you're conducting a search,
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: you find her phone, you're gonna look all around.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace and let me go this
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: to Alan Lingle joining us, the editor at Deadline Detroit
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: and Online Daily. Alan, I wonder if where her body
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: was found is a secondary or even tertiary crime scene.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: In other words, was she killed somewhere else then dumped there,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: because that's a lot of time to pass without her
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: body being found that close.
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: Although I will say, having worked on the Child Levy
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: case when I was at the Washington Post, her body
• 34:21
  Speaker 6: was found at Rock Creek Bark. It wasn't till a
• 34:25
  Speaker 6: year later a guy was taking a walk through the
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: woods with his dog where the body was discovered. I
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: think it's for some reason in the forest, it's not
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: hard to, you know, have a body hidden for that long,
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: and particularly in the cold where I don't know enough
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: about it to say, but canines going through the woods
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: or stuff like that. I don't know if it's harder
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: when it's cold out, when the scent isn't the aroma
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: isn't out there, but I who knows, it's hard to say.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I'm that's a good question, Alan Langle. When were ca
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: nines brought out right?
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: That? Yeah, that is a good question. I mean, you
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: would think that's that standard procedure usually there's a search team.
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: A lot of times it's part of the community, part
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: of the police. But I can tell you in Chandra
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: Levy case, they sent out dozens and dozens of police
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: officers and cadets looking for the looking for the body,
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: and they did not find it. Could it have been moved.
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: It's very possible, and I think that was one of
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: the thoughts maybe with Chandra Levy, that maybe her or
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: she was killed somewhere else and then her body was
• 35:38
  Speaker 6: dumped there. I guess we don't know at this point.
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's interesting the theories by police. They seem
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: to have some pretty specific theories as to what happened
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: the scenario. So it makes me think somebody's cooperating. Somebody,
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: whether it's the actual people involved or somebody else, has
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: been cooperating in this.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: We don't know when canines were brought out to the scene,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: but they did not hit on Rebecca's body, which is
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: leading to a lot of speculation she was killed in
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: one place, the dog searched, and then her body was
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: dump Then we begin hearing stories about Rebecca, heavily pregnant,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: getting into a black vehicle with tinted windows at midnight
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: now remember the last time she was seeing She's with
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: her bio mom running errands and she's got two thousand
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: dollars with her. It's a family gift to prepare for
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the baby. Now listen to this.
• 36:38
  Speaker 15: Rebecca's fiance, Richard lee Fulor, is trying to get in
• 36:41
  Speaker 15: touch with Rebecca, but she is not answering or replying
• 36:44
  Speaker 15: to text. Knowing Rebecca has been shopping with her biological mother,
• 36:47
  Speaker 15: the Lura calls King Bartholomew, who says Rebecca got into
• 36:50
  Speaker 15: a black colored sedan with tinted windows just before midnight
• 36:53
  Speaker 15: and left. The Lura reports Rebecca missing with the Wexford
• 36:56
  Speaker 15: County Sheriff's Office.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Dave Mac, I'm understanding that the fiance got that information
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: from Rebecca's bio mom, who was the last one known
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: to be with her exactly.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: He knew that Rebecca had been with her bio mom
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: shopping earlier that day. When he couldn't get her, he
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: called Bartholomew, who told him this story about the getting
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: in a car, a dark vehicle.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: But isn't it true, Dave Mac. The bio mom has
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: an alibi of sorts. Listen, she gave me.
• 37:25
  Speaker 11: My meds at about eight forty. I don't remember a lot,
• 37:29
  Speaker 11: as I just said, but she was there when I
• 37:34
  Speaker 11: went to bed, and she was also there when I
• 37:36
  Speaker 11: woke up the next day. I know that she never
• 37:41
  Speaker 11: goes out on about when I'm sleeping, just because she
• 37:44
  Speaker 11: doesn't like to drive that night.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Randolph Rice, that's no alibi. The son
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: of the bio mom says he took Med's at eight
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: forty and didn't see his mom again until the next morning.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: That's no alibi for the night Rebecca died.
• 38:01
  Speaker 9: You're exactly right, Nancy, it's no alibi, but at least
• 38:03
  Speaker 9: establishes it somewhere on an eight forty that she's accountable,
• 38:07
  Speaker 9: and sometime the next morning she's accountable. The question is
• 38:10
  Speaker 9: going to become where was she between eight forty pm
• 38:12
  Speaker 9: and that next morning?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Out of the blue, a surprise twist listened to Joanna Carey,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: the Wexford County Prosecutor.
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: This is the case of premeditated torture and murder.
• 38:24
  Speaker 12: These two individuals created a plan conductive research.
• 38:28
  Speaker 13: As for our follow you brought Rebecca to their home.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: They forced her into another vehicle and took her into
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the woods, where they stabbed her, forced her to lie
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: on the ground while they cut her baby out, and
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: ultimately caused her death. There's been a lot of speculation
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: about potential motive. Of course, the state never has to
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: prove motive in a case like this or any case.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: But to Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, apparently prosecutors
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: are speculating about a motive. What is it?
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: It is that the Barthel Bradley that they had failed
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: at conceiving a child, that she had had multiple miscarriages,
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: and that she still wanted to have a baby talking
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: about Courtney Bartholome you here, and that they had not
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: been able to do that.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: You know, you really can't make that up, but believe
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: it or not, there have been other cases similar to
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: this with the same mudive and I'm referring specifically to
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: the case of Bobby ja Stint.
• 39:28
  Speaker 16: The woman behind me is one of the most hated
• 39:31
  Speaker 16: people in Missouri. This is Lisa Montgomery and in twenty
• 39:34
  Speaker 16: twenty one, she was actually the first woman to be
• 39:36
  Speaker 16: executed by the US government in nearly seventy years because
• 39:40
  Speaker 16: she did something horrifically depraved. In two thousand and four,
• 39:44
  Speaker 16: Lisa drove to Missouri to meet Bobby Joe Stinnett, who
• 39:48
  Speaker 16: was thirty eight weeks pregnant at the time.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: That is from rate Review on TikTok, and she's rought
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery cut the baby out of the victim. Bobby
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Joe's Stennett, who was eight months pregnant, took the baby
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and the baby lived. The baby girl is now a
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: teenager living with her father. Alan Lngle joining us from
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Deadline Detroit. Alan, these two are under arrest right now.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Do you believe that there are any other parties involved
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: in the murder of Rebecca and you have reason to
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: believe that the baby is no longer alive?
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: Explain well, I think the Attorney General Dania Essel here
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: in Michigan has put out a press release. She's working
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: with the county prosecutor, and she's put out a press
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: release saying that not only the mother is dead, but
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: the baby is dead. They seem to have a scenario
• 40:52
  Speaker 6: of what happened, what transpired, which tells me somebody is
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: cooperating and helping out because there's no I doubt there's
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: any video there in the National Forest there, somebody has
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: sort of laid out a scenario where they're able to
• 41:09
  Speaker 6: press charges and say what happened? So does somebody else
• 41:15
  Speaker 6: know about it? There's a very good possibility that somebody
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: else has been cooperating to sort of lay out the scenario.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing to me that other people could
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: stand by knowing this happened or was going to happen,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: and did nothing to Joseph Scott Morgan. The baby, baby Ritchie,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: has not been found. Ellie thinks the baby is dead.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Is there any way now we saw in the Montgomery
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: case the baby did live, Is there a way the
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: baby lived.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a possibility the baby live, we just don't
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: know how long. But here's the thing, Nancy, I think
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: that all we have to do is go back to
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: what the state prosecutor is saying here, because they're kind
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: of definitively saying that this neither too. And we know
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: the mom all right is deceased, but both of them
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: are not alive. So where is she coming up with
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: that information? I'm wondering if there was a witness to
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: this event, or somebody had actually that was involved in
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: this had stated it to somebody else, maybe in their
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: immediate circle, maybe somebody within the family you know, because
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: they're banging on about, well, we've tried and we haven't
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: had a baby, and you know, this is something we
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: really wanted. Well, if they're banging on about that, maybe
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: they're saying, well we tried again. Oh yeah, we try
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: to butcher my biological daughter and extract maybe from her,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: and so that didn't work either. Did they make that
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: statement to somebody? The question is? The question is is
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: where is this child? And also how long, if any anytime,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: does child survive outside of the womb, and what's the
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: status of the baby right now?
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: death of Rebecca or anything about her missing baby, please
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: call Wexford Sheriffs two three one seven seventy nine nine
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: two one six. The investigation is on going. And now
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: we remember an American hero, Corporal James Chapman, Johnston, p D.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: South Carolina, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: a grieving wife and four children to be raised without
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: their father. American hero Corporal James Chapman. Nancy Gray signing
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: off advice man