Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SECRET LIFE EXPOSED: Married girlfriend who hacks, burns Vanessa Guillen foot sex fetish & bizarre psyche

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SECRET LIFE EXPOSED: Married girlfriend who hacks, burns Vanessa Guillen foot sex fetish & bizarre psyche · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Vanessa gim Goes missing within fort Hood. Now we know
0:12
Speaker 1: the beautiful young twenty year old private first class was
0:16
Speaker 1: brutally murdered. But what now and what of the woman
0:22
Speaker 1: who is now behind bars as a conspirator, a married
0:28
Speaker 1: girlfriend of Vanessa's killer that apparently ran to the scene
0:33
Speaker 1: in order to stand around a bonfire, dismember Vanessa's body
0:38
Speaker 1: and burn the body parts. What about Cecily Aguilar Also
0:45
Speaker 1: what about the young man Gregory Wheedled Morales whose body
0:51
Speaker 1: was found near Vanessa's What about that? Joining me today
0:57
Speaker 1: is a mother Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace.
1:09
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
1:12
Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this. According to
1:14
Speaker 1: the criminal complaints against Cecily Aguilad Army investigators were notified
1:18
Speaker 1: on April twenty third that Vanessa again was reported missing
1:22
Speaker 1: by her unit. A search of Vanessa's phone records show
1:24
Speaker 1: the last person she texted with specialist Aaron Robinson. Robinson
1:28
Speaker 1: told investigators on April twenty second that he and Vanessa
1:32
Speaker 1: worked together briefly. On April twenty eighth, Robinson was interviewed
1:35
Speaker 1: by Army investigators about what he did the day Vanessa vanished.
1:39
Speaker 1: He said after work he left for hood to go
1:42
Speaker 1: home to his girlfriend, Cecily Aguilad. He told investigators the
1:46
Speaker 1: one time he left his home was around six thirty
1:48
Speaker 1: PM to return to the post to sign up for training.
1:52
Speaker 1: A few weeks later, on May eighteenth, two witnesses stated
1:55
Speaker 1: seeing Robinson on April twenty second load a heavy, tough
1:59
Speaker 1: box with wheels into his car. The next day, Robinson
2:02
Speaker 1: let investigators search his phone record show Robinson called his
2:06
Speaker 1: girlfriend multiple times on the night Vanessa disappeared, and as
2:09
Speaker 1: late as three thirty in the morning the next day. Guys,
2:13
Speaker 1: you are hearing our Francy Khou eleven. That was David
2:16
Speaker 1: Gonzalez joining me an all start panel. Troy Slayton, criminal
2:21
Speaker 1: defense attorney, joining me out of LA renowned psychoanalyst joining
2:24
Speaker 1: me out of Beverly Hills. Doctor Bethany Marshall at Bethany
2:28
Speaker 1: marshall dot com. Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case
2:31
Speaker 1: Research Institute, and crime scene expert, doctor Chris Sperry, former
2:36
Speaker 1: Chief medical Examiner for the entire State of Georgia. Kr
2:42
Speaker 1: Kate j R. HTV news anchor Vincent Hill and special guest,
2:47
Speaker 1: the mother of Gregory Wheedle, Morales Kim Wheedle. First to you,
2:53
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, joining me, what can you tell me about
2:56
Speaker 1: the woman behind the man in this case, the woman
3:00
Speaker 1: standing behind the killer Aaron Robinson. Her name Chrissy Aguilera.
3:05
Speaker 1: What do we know about her? Well, Nancy, we know
3:08
Speaker 1: she was married to another Forthheid soldier, which is a
3:12
Speaker 1: red flag number one. She's also dating another soldier, which
3:16
Speaker 1: is a pretty common thing on army basis, and we
3:20
Speaker 1: do know it. Wait, wait, Vincent, are you saying it's
3:22
Speaker 1: common for a woman married to a soldier to be
3:26
Speaker 1: dating another soldier, because I've never heard that before. Well, Nancy,
3:30
Speaker 1: me being a former soldier myself and growing up military,
3:33
Speaker 1: that is a very common thing for soldiers to be
3:37
Speaker 1: dating other soldiers, wives and husbands and things of that
3:40
Speaker 1: nature goes on all the time. Especially. Isn't that a
3:43
Speaker 1: violation of army regulations? It is a direct violation of
3:48
Speaker 1: army violation or regulations, and I think that is what
3:52
Speaker 1: led to the tragic that of Vanessa. That's part of
3:55
Speaker 1: what led to it. So let me understand this. She,
4:00
Speaker 1: Chrissy Aguilera, is Cecily Aguilera is married to another army,
4:07
Speaker 1: a member of the army. She's dating Aaron Robinson, the
4:11
Speaker 1: alleged killer in this case. So what else do we
4:14
Speaker 1: know about her other than she's cheating. Well, Nancy, we
4:17
Speaker 1: know on her social media she had this image of
4:22
Speaker 1: a bad girl, if you will. She had several pictures
4:26
Speaker 1: of her with handguns, her with rifles, and some of
4:30
Speaker 1: the things that she was saying on social media. She
4:33
Speaker 1: was painting herself as this bad chick if you will. Well,
4:37
Speaker 1: isn't it true that online she's selling feet pictures? Absolutely, Nancy,
4:42
Speaker 1: and that is very disturbing in itself. I mean, she's
4:46
Speaker 1: into this fetish fantasy world. So I think all the
4:51
Speaker 1: red flags of who she actually is was portrayed on
4:56
Speaker 1: her social media. Joining me the perfect person to discuss
4:59
Speaker 1: her psyche, doctor Bethany Marshall, is joining us out of
5:03
Speaker 1: la doctor Bethany Marshall on her social media, and I've
5:08
Speaker 1: studied it very, very carefully ever since her name first emerged.
5:12
Speaker 1: I have this image of Cecily Aguilera standing over a bonfire,
5:18
Speaker 1: a bonfire so high it actually burned the limbs of
5:23
Speaker 1: the trees over the bonfire where they have dismembered Vanessa's
5:30
Speaker 1: body and they're burning the body parts. I guess that's
5:33
Speaker 1: the order it went, or else they tried to burn her,
5:37
Speaker 1: couldn't and then dismembered her, buried her body. But it's beautiful,
5:41
Speaker 1: young private first class. Apparently Aaron Robinson wasn't happy just
5:45
Speaker 1: dating a married woman. He had been hitting on Vanessa
5:49
Speaker 1: and sexually harassing her as well. The army did nothing
5:52
Speaker 1: about that. But I can imagine these two kind of
5:57
Speaker 1: like the witches in Macbeth double double toil and trouble,
6:04
Speaker 1: cackling away over the fire as it burned Vanessa's remains.
6:09
Speaker 1: This is who I'm talking about. Who in the hey
6:14
Speaker 1: would go along with that. Your boyfriend calls and goes, hey, babe,
6:19
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, come help me, and you go help him.
6:24
Speaker 1: See edgar Laar is a woman who is in love
6:28
Speaker 1: with one person herself. That's her profile. If you boil
6:33
Speaker 1: it down to that, you understand her. Psyche seek about
6:36
Speaker 1: the foot fetish photos. Women do not have foot fetishes.
6:40
Speaker 1: Men do. So she what what what? What? Bethany? Excuse me,
6:46
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, Doctor Bethany. I know in your world, foot
6:51
Speaker 1: fetishes are normal. You probably hear about it all day long.
6:56
Speaker 1: In fact, I've seen your feet and they're perfectly captain.
6:59
Speaker 1: I wonder why. But that's a whole nother can worms, Bethany,
7:04
Speaker 1: For those novices to your world, could you explain what
7:10
Speaker 1: is a foot fetish? I remember covering a case where
7:13
Speaker 1: I guess the woman went missing or was dead. Anyway,
7:16
Speaker 1: I dug up videos of her. She catered to men
7:20
Speaker 1: with a foot fetish, and she would have her a
7:26
Speaker 1: perfect pedicure, high heels, really high heels, and she would
7:30
Speaker 1: stomp bugs and frogs and tiny animals to death, and
7:35
Speaker 1: on video, and that was what she did. So foot fetishes.
7:41
Speaker 1: Let me just say, there's a very broad spectrum a
7:44
Speaker 1: foot fetishes. So let's get you to explain that, since
7:47
Speaker 1: that's your expertise, not mine yours. Okay. A fetish is
7:52
Speaker 1: when an individual can only achieve orchasm through a part
7:59
Speaker 1: of a human being rather than the whole human being, right,
8:02
Speaker 1: anute or through an Let me just take that in,
8:05
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, are you listening, I'm listening. Okay, go ahead.
8:10
Speaker 1: You can only a chain sexual happiness through a body part,
8:15
Speaker 1: not a whole body. Yes, a body part or an
8:18
Speaker 1: object a whip, a chain, a shoe, a foot that
8:24
Speaker 1: the person's sexual Bethany, Bethany, I'm gonna need something a
8:28
Speaker 1: little stronger than Irish breakfast tea with milk. Okay, so
8:32
Speaker 1: just run out and get it. Go ahead, Bethany, I
8:35
Speaker 1: may need coffee for them. And the reason for that
8:39
Speaker 1: is that the individual who has the fetish, who has
8:42
Speaker 1: the sexualized, fetishized interest in an object or a body
8:46
Speaker 1: part in this case, Cecily Aguilar's feat is that they
8:51
Speaker 1: cannot relate to the whole person. See, a foot is
8:55
Speaker 1: never going to control you, talk back to you, put
8:59
Speaker 1: you down, to mean you, or diminish you. It's just
9:02
Speaker 1: offput Crime stories with Nancy Grace, we're talking about Cecily Aguilar, who,
9:24
Speaker 1: for god knows why, because I sure don't. She goes
9:28
Speaker 1: along with Aaron Robinson after he murders Vanessa. He can't
9:32
Speaker 1: figure out how to get rid of her body. He
9:35
Speaker 1: calls in this woman, Cecily Aguilar, and I hope you're
9:39
Speaker 1: listening local prosecutors, because if you give this woman a
9:44
Speaker 1: cheap deal, I'm gonna be all over you like a
9:47
Speaker 1: cheap suit. You can count on that don't let it
9:50
Speaker 1: all die down for a couple of months and then
9:53
Speaker 1: take some secret sweetheart deal in. Oh, but we're talking
9:57
Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall because this woman and tried to
10:01
Speaker 1: sell foot fetish photos online that we know. I don't
10:07
Speaker 1: know what else she did. But back to you, Bethany,
10:09
Speaker 1: I think you were saying something about the foot can't
10:11
Speaker 1: talk back. The foot cannot talk back. So individuals who
10:15
Speaker 1: have a foot fetish, they boil the entire tire sexual
10:19
Speaker 1: interest in another person down to just the foot. They
10:23
Speaker 1: cannot relate to the whole person as an individual with
10:27
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings and motivations of their own. They can't
10:30
Speaker 1: make love to a person. They can't achieve arousal by
10:33
Speaker 1: being with a person. They can only achieve arousal through
10:36
Speaker 1: a foot. So when you think of Cecily Aguilar, she's
10:39
Speaker 1: praying on these types of individuals with foot fetishes. She's
10:44
Speaker 1: catering to them, she's preying on them. She's taking pictures
10:47
Speaker 1: of her feet, perhaps other people's feet, and disseminating them.
10:52
Speaker 1: So this is the profile of the person who hacked
10:56
Speaker 1: up Vanessa Gim's body. Also on her Facebook posts, it's
11:02
Speaker 1: as if She's in love with herself, nobody else, any
11:06
Speaker 1: girl she writes, any girl, complete innocence. But her demons
11:10
Speaker 1: are what drove me wild. Her secrets, her pain, she
11:13
Speaker 1: masks by laughter, her darkness she tries so hard to hide.
11:17
Speaker 1: That's what made me fall for her. It's as if
11:20
Speaker 1: she's writing a love poem to herself. This is a
11:25
Speaker 1: person who all of her love energy is directed back
11:29
Speaker 1: against the self. She'll do anything to survive, even if
11:33
Speaker 1: it means chopping up another person's body. Anything to survive.
11:36
Speaker 1: How about go out and get a job or two
11:39
Speaker 1: or three like I have. I don't get it. Why
11:41
Speaker 1: do you have to sell photos? I mean, foot fetish
11:45
Speaker 1: is a wide range. It could be you could be
11:49
Speaker 1: catering to some guy, and as you said, it is
11:51
Speaker 1: typically a male that has a foot fetish. They go
11:53
Speaker 1: in and they steal ladies shoes, they buy ladies shoes,
11:57
Speaker 1: they love lady's feet. Well, it goes on and on.
11:59
Speaker 1: An there's a big difference in loving ladies feet and
12:03
Speaker 1: watching videos of man pedicured fate stomping rabbits dead. Well,
12:09
Speaker 1: that's absolutely right, because you have more vulnerable characters who
12:13
Speaker 1: can only relate to a foot, not to the whole person.
12:16
Speaker 1: These are men who don't even know how to have
12:19
Speaker 1: a relationship. Their whole sexual fantasy life is around the foot,
12:24
Speaker 1: a very narrow range of interests. And then you have
12:27
Speaker 1: men who are quite sadistic, like you said, stomping on
12:30
Speaker 1: you know, rabbits, spider snakes, things like that. And you
12:35
Speaker 1: think about that if if she has this lurid interest
12:40
Speaker 1: in men who are sadistic, who are cruel, who are
12:44
Speaker 1: mean that this says something about her attachment systems too,
12:49
Speaker 1: And it says something about how she attached to Robinson,
12:54
Speaker 1: because there was a great deal of cruel in their
12:57
Speaker 1: relationship towards me in right, you know, he struck her
13:02
Speaker 1: in the head with a hammer. They dismembered the body.
13:05
Speaker 1: Not only did they bury it in three different different
13:09
Speaker 1: burial sites, but then they came back four days later
13:13
Speaker 1: to excavate the remains and then try to dismember her further.
13:17
Speaker 1: So it makes you begin to think about cecily A,
13:21
Speaker 1: her own sadism, her own fetishes, her own lurid interest.
13:25
Speaker 1: I think in some ways, because she had such a
13:28
Speaker 1: huge cash of guns and she was in love with guns.
13:31
Speaker 1: This is a woman that loved herself, which she also
13:33
Speaker 1: loved violence. She had in a way, she had her
13:37
Speaker 1: own fetishized interest in gore, violence, dismemberment. And it may
13:43
Speaker 1: have been latent until this killing came around, and then
13:47
Speaker 1: it just blossomed under these circumstances. You know, you're saying
13:51
Speaker 1: something now that I believe relates to this case. It
13:54
Speaker 1: may never come into a court of law, but her
13:59
Speaker 1: Cecily Aguilar's connection to violent, hateful or mean men would
14:05
Speaker 1: come into play here with Aaron Robinson, Vanessa games killer.
14:12
Speaker 1: I want you're earlier her from KHOU eleven reporter David Gonzalez.
14:18
Speaker 1: Now take a listen to KHOU eleven Stephanie Whitfield. Vanessa
14:23
Speaker 1: Gean's family has tirelessly looked for her since she was
14:26
Speaker 1: last seen in late April. Now they know she's gone,
14:31
Speaker 1: but they're still searching for justice. Army officials say specialist
14:35
Speaker 1: Aaron Robinson killed the twenty year old soldier on base
14:39
Speaker 1: using a hammer. Court record show his girlfriend Cecily Aguilar
14:43
Speaker 1: helped get rid of the body. Robinson took his own
14:46
Speaker 1: life last week, leaving Aguilar as the only living suspect.
14:50
Speaker 1: Family members just want to know why this happened. Honestly,
14:55
Speaker 1: I still don't understand. I knew how a strong feeling
14:59
Speaker 1: that those sexual harassment hadn't ought to do with them.
15:03
Speaker 1: Army officials say they've found no evidence of harassment, but
15:07
Speaker 1: the investigation is still open. In the meantime, the Guienne
15:11
Speaker 1: family is planning a funeral. They say the murals honoring
15:15
Speaker 1: Vanessa and Kaleen and Houston give them strength to keep
15:18
Speaker 1: searching for the truth. Joining me an all Star panel,
15:22
Speaker 1: let me go back to Vincent Hill kJ RHTV. Vincent,
15:27
Speaker 1: is it true that this woman has a child? It
15:29
Speaker 1: is true, Nancy, But I do want to touch on
15:33
Speaker 1: something I think it's very important here where this murder occurred. Again,
15:38
Speaker 1: speaking as someone that was in the military, I hate
15:41
Speaker 1: to use this term. It was the perfect place for
15:43
Speaker 1: it because an armory, fortified, concrete walls, steel door, you
15:49
Speaker 1: close that door, those screens that Vanessa was doing, no
15:53
Speaker 1: one could have heard those screens fancy. So unfortunately where
15:58
Speaker 1: she was killed, what's the perfect for him to do it?
16:01
Speaker 1: And it's tragic that it happened, But I think he
16:04
Speaker 1: knew what he was going to do when she walked
16:06
Speaker 1: in those stores, So you believe Cecily Aguilar has a child. Correct,
16:11
Speaker 1: I believe so, Nancy to you, Cheryl McCallum, Director Cold
16:14
Speaker 1: Case Research Institute. In my mind, that shines another light
16:19
Speaker 1: on the psyche of this woman who helped tear apart
16:23
Speaker 1: Vanessa Ghiam's body and burn it and then bury it
16:28
Speaker 1: in wet cement. Because you know, just here's an example, Cheryl.
16:33
Speaker 1: For years and years and years, I would die all
16:36
Speaker 1: over the world. I gone to places and people say,
16:39
Speaker 1: how is it, and I'm like, I don't know. I
16:40
Speaker 1: was underwater the whole time. But once I had the twins,
16:44
Speaker 1: that's over. I'm not going to do anything to jeopardize
16:49
Speaker 1: their life. And that includes growing up with a mother.
16:55
Speaker 1: Forget it, No, I quit cursing. You know that that hurts.
17:01
Speaker 1: But so many those are just mild, anecdotal examples of
17:06
Speaker 1: how your life changes when you have a child. Why
17:09
Speaker 1: in the hate would she go along with this if
17:13
Speaker 1: she has a child, Nancy, this is going to be
17:16
Speaker 1: like one of our old time late night conversations. So
17:19
Speaker 1: just stay with me a second. This woman, Marshall talk
17:23
Speaker 1: about foot fetishes more than I wanted to know, but
17:27
Speaker 1: I want to hear what you have to say this
17:29
Speaker 1: woman is a paradox. So as a criminologist, tattoos means
17:33
Speaker 1: something to me, what people select, the way they choose
17:37
Speaker 1: to put it on their body, where they choose to
17:39
Speaker 1: put it. She literally has a tattoo on her arm
17:43
Speaker 1: that is Corinthians twelve nine, which is My grace is
17:46
Speaker 1: sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness.
17:51
Speaker 1: That's a paradox. You can't have real power without real weakness.
17:56
Speaker 1: You can't see just how awesome God is without being pitiful. Okay,
18:00
Speaker 1: she's gonna pose with guns and smoking weeds and talking
18:04
Speaker 1: about fetishes and talk about she's a writer or die
18:07
Speaker 1: right at the same time, Dancy, at the exact same time.
18:12
Speaker 1: She's got Bible verses. She's a wife, she's a mother,
18:15
Speaker 1: She supports the army. She will sit there and tell
18:19
Speaker 1: you she's a bad bitch. But when it came down
18:22
Speaker 1: to it, you ain't none but a snitch. In about
18:24
Speaker 1: five minutes, you help the army find your man that
18:28
Speaker 1: you were supposedly trying to help by hacking this girl up.
18:31
Speaker 1: She's a paradoxal devil. Well, she is the devil. And
18:35
Speaker 1: what concerns me she's not charged with murder crime stories
18:52
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. We're talking about not only Vanessa Ghim
18:58
Speaker 1: gorgeous on the inside in the outside, young private first
19:02
Speaker 1: class at Fort Hood who was murdered, her body hacked
19:07
Speaker 1: apart with a machete by this woman along with her
19:11
Speaker 1: lover Aaron Robinson. Then they burn the body and hide it.
19:17
Speaker 1: She has a child born in twenty fourteen. The child's
19:20
Speaker 1: about six years old. We think it's a son. How
19:23
Speaker 1: could you risk your child's life by going along with
19:27
Speaker 1: this Aaron Robinson in his murderous scheme? How who is
19:33
Speaker 1: this woman? Cecily Aguilare. We know she's a mom covered
19:38
Speaker 1: in tattoos. We know online she wants to sugar daddy.
19:42
Speaker 1: We know she's in a recent breakup. We know she's
19:44
Speaker 1: dating Aaron Robinson. We think she's still married or estranged
19:47
Speaker 1: to another officer. What else do we know about her?
19:53
Speaker 1: Troice Layton, she's not charged with murder, so Troice Layton,
19:57
Speaker 1: you're the defense attorney. I mean that with in a loving,
20:02
Speaker 1: caring way. But what is she looking at behind bars
20:06
Speaker 1: right now? And yes, I know she gave a statement
20:09
Speaker 1: and rat it out Aaron Robinson, But I don't know
20:12
Speaker 1: that there was a deal attached to that. I think
20:14
Speaker 1: she just went met and just blurted it out while
20:16
Speaker 1: she's facing up to twenty years. Good, that's not enough
20:20
Speaker 1: in prison. But what you may call snitching, what you
20:25
Speaker 1: may call just blurting out. She helped give the family closure.
20:29
Speaker 1: She's the one that led authorities to the body, to
20:32
Speaker 1: the crime scenes. She's the one who gave investigators an
20:36
Speaker 1: entire roadmap about what happened. And maybe, just maybe she
20:41
Speaker 1: was in fear for her life after she saw that
20:44
Speaker 1: her boyfriend was capable of murder. Her boyfriend calls her
20:50
Speaker 1: up in a panic, has a body that is needed
20:54
Speaker 1: to be disposed of. She feels that she may be
20:57
Speaker 1: implicated with this murderer and she could be the next
21:01
Speaker 1: one that winds up dead. So yeah, maybe she didn't
21:05
Speaker 1: help dispose of the body. But when push came to
21:08
Speaker 1: shove and authorities needed to find out what happened in
21:12
Speaker 1: this case, she led them, are you buying any of that,
21:16
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, what choice? Layton just said, any of it
21:19
Speaker 1: at all? Because you know their cell phone pings, their
21:22
Speaker 1: cell phone pings placed them there. Anything. They don't need her.
21:26
Speaker 1: She's just icing on the cake. I would not cut
21:29
Speaker 1: her a deal, so help me deal, Lord in Heaven.
21:31
Speaker 1: I would take her down for every day I could
21:35
Speaker 1: what she stayed with that man in his house, in
21:39
Speaker 1: his bed four months. She didn't talk till they found her.
21:44
Speaker 1: They found her, they already knew she was connected. Yeah, there,
21:47
Speaker 1: you got a choice, Layton. I'm gonna give you a
21:48
Speaker 1: moment to digest what Cheryl McCollum just said. Because I
21:52
Speaker 1: know you, Slayton, you will come up with another argument.
21:56
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical
21:59
Speaker 1: exam State of Georgia. You know, doctor Sperry, could you
22:04
Speaker 1: outline exactly what this woman, this foot fetish, married mom
22:10
Speaker 1: dating another guy, goes along with dismembering a body with
22:15
Speaker 1: a machete. How hard is it to do that, doctor Sperry.
22:21
Speaker 1: It's it's surprisingly easy. It's officially with a machete that
22:25
Speaker 1: has some weight, they can barely cut a part of chicken. Well,
22:29
Speaker 1: but you don't you just try it with it? What? Yeah, Well,
22:33
Speaker 1: there's a difference between using a boning knife and using
22:36
Speaker 1: a machete too. Did you say a bowie knife? No,
22:40
Speaker 1: I don't have one of those in the kitchen knife,
22:44
Speaker 1: a regular knife, Okay, go ahead, Yeah, no, but it's
22:48
Speaker 1: it would be surprisingly easy with with something like a
22:52
Speaker 1: machete that's heavy, because it would be a series of
22:56
Speaker 1: chopping wounds repeatedly. Now something certain things like bones, especially
23:03
Speaker 1: the long bones of the legs, would be very difficult,
23:07
Speaker 1: just because it's hard to break those bones and it
23:10
Speaker 1: would take repeated blows. But it's a strong man. Is
23:17
Speaker 1: it difficult or is it easy? I don't know how
23:19
Speaker 1: you can separate bones from a human body and that
23:22
Speaker 1: be easy. Well, it's it's with something heavy. If if
23:26
Speaker 1: you're not using a machete or an axe and you're
23:29
Speaker 1: just using knives, the only way to separate the bones
23:33
Speaker 1: is to cut through joints, and that takes some skill
23:37
Speaker 1: and it's more time consuming as well, because the various
23:41
Speaker 1: joints are held together pretty well. But with a machete,
23:45
Speaker 1: it's it's not it's really fairly simple. Actually maybe simple
23:51
Speaker 1: for you. But yeah, well I've seen a number of
23:54
Speaker 1: bodies that were, you know, we're chopped up with machetes
23:58
Speaker 1: and it's surprisingly it's not too difficult. Yeah, that is
24:02
Speaker 1: a surprise for me because to the thought of lifting
24:06
Speaker 1: machete and hacking somebody's dead body apart. I mean even
24:10
Speaker 1: the psychological aspect, Doctor Bethany Marshall, of setting fire to
24:15
Speaker 1: a body, I find that difficult because bodies are very hard.
24:19
Speaker 1: Hold on, Doctor Sperry, how hard is it to burn
24:22
Speaker 1: a body? Yeah, actually it's very hard. It's very very
24:25
Speaker 1: difficult to burn a body to the point where there's
24:29
Speaker 1: just nothing left that allows, you know, the ability for recognition.
24:34
Speaker 1: I mean, you're really talking about a very very very
24:37
Speaker 1: hot fire burning for hours in order to completely aciderate
24:42
Speaker 1: a body. So it's unless someone sets out to do
24:46
Speaker 1: something like that that you know, to actually like a
24:50
Speaker 1: cremation pire that they have in India, the Ganges River
24:54
Speaker 1: that you know, those have lots of lots of big
24:57
Speaker 1: piles of wood that are carefully stacked and the are
25:00
Speaker 1: constructed to burn hot and burn for a long time. Otherwise,
25:05
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's very it's very you just cannot
25:08
Speaker 1: really incinerate a body completely, you know. I'm asking doctor
25:12
Speaker 1: Sperry to follow up with doctor Bethany the mental, the
25:17
Speaker 1: frame of mind, the course of conduct that went into
25:21
Speaker 1: what they did to this innocent girl, Vanessa Ken standing
25:26
Speaker 1: by while they set fire to her body, dismember her
25:32
Speaker 1: with a machete. I mean, the thought of putting a
25:36
Speaker 1: match to human skin. It's just it's hard for me
25:42
Speaker 1: to even fathom how this woman, Cecily Aguilar, who by
25:47
Speaker 1: the way, has a theF case in Bell County from
25:50
Speaker 1: December twenty nineteen, so she has had brushes with the law,
25:54
Speaker 1: as it's euphemistically called. How do you what frame of
25:59
Speaker 1: mind would it take to set someone's body on fire? Nancy,
26:04
Speaker 1: have you ever had a friend or an acquaintance of
26:07
Speaker 1: female whose husband or boyfriend has an affair and then
26:12
Speaker 1: she directs all the hatred towards the woman with whom
26:16
Speaker 1: he had the affair, rather than holding her own self accountable. Yes, okay,
26:21
Speaker 1: So think about that mindset and multiply it by a thousand.
26:29
Speaker 1: Think of Cecily and Aaron Robinson and think about something
26:35
Speaker 1: more sinister complex a broad array of bad behaviors on
26:42
Speaker 1: both of their parts. She sends out pictures of foot fetishes,
26:45
Speaker 1: she tries to make money off of that. She's having
26:49
Speaker 1: an affair. She's psychologically abandoning her six year old. She
26:55
Speaker 1: has had some other petty theft problems, struggling working at
26:59
Speaker 1: a gas stay. He's leering at Vanessa game while she's
27:03
Speaker 1: in the shower. He has lurid thoughts towards her. He's
27:07
Speaker 1: hitting on her, he's harassing her. So many bad acts
27:11
Speaker 1: between the two members of this couple. But who bears
27:16
Speaker 1: the brunt of all their rage? Vanessa. She's the scapeboat.
27:21
Speaker 1: She's the one upon whom they heap their hatred, their rage.
27:27
Speaker 1: In my field, we call it a paranoid projection when
27:30
Speaker 1: somebody knows that they've done something wrong, but they blame
27:34
Speaker 1: somebody else for it, like a parent who loses their
27:37
Speaker 1: child because due to alcoholism, But then they blame the
27:42
Speaker 1: other parent who in whose care the child has been
27:47
Speaker 1: placed and the child is receiving loving attention. So they
27:51
Speaker 1: had a paranoid projection with Vanessa that she was the devil,
27:54
Speaker 1: she was evil, she was doing bad things. It was
27:57
Speaker 1: a projection into her of all of their bad acts.
28:00
Speaker 1: So when you think of burning the body, it's like
28:04
Speaker 1: burn baby, burn, you bitch. You deserve this, You bad person.
28:08
Speaker 1: You said side double, double toil and trouble. Multiply that
28:13
Speaker 1: exponentially to You're the one who's the bad person, not us.
28:19
Speaker 1: And I think that is the underlying psychology. The viewers
28:22
Speaker 1: are going to have a hard your listeners are going
28:24
Speaker 1: to have a hard time by standing it because this
28:26
Speaker 1: is at such a pathological level. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
28:47
Speaker 1: In the midst of the disappearance and death of Vanessa Game,
28:52
Speaker 1: another victim has emerged. His name Gregory Weidel Moralice can
29:00
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at KWKT Fox forty four. Morales's
29:04
Speaker 1: mother thought her son overslept, but as time went on,
29:07
Speaker 1: she became more worried, concerned that he's either got in
29:12
Speaker 1: with the wrong people and something's happened to him. The
29:15
Speaker 1: fear leaving friends to searchful answers on their own. If
29:20
Speaker 1: I'm just driving hoping to see him, hoping to see
29:26
Speaker 1: the car, he are all genuinely, you know, concerned about
29:31
Speaker 1: his state of mind. You are hearing friends describing Gregory
29:35
Speaker 1: Wheedle Morales and enjoying me right now is a very
29:39
Speaker 1: special guest. His mother, Kim, Miss Wheedle, thank you for
29:45
Speaker 1: being with us. You're very welcome, Miss Wheedle. All of
29:49
Speaker 1: the news and the headlines have been about Vanessa Ghim
29:52
Speaker 1: and I understand that, but Paula was first stated that
29:57
Speaker 1: your son must have committed suicide. That is not true.
30:01
Speaker 1: There's no way he could have committed suicide and buried
30:04
Speaker 1: his own body away from Forthood. What are police telling
30:10
Speaker 1: you at this time? We're not getting a lot of
30:14
Speaker 1: information about anything. The new there is a new homicide
30:19
Speaker 1: detective in charge, so we do at least know that
30:22
Speaker 1: they're considering a homicide now. Also with me regarding Gregory
30:29
Speaker 1: Wheedle Morals is Vincent Hill kJ R HTV Vincent. What
30:34
Speaker 1: do we know about the cod cause of death and
30:37
Speaker 1: how was Gregory's remains found? Well, Nancy, not much is
30:42
Speaker 1: known about a cause of death right now. The autopsy
30:45
Speaker 1: with Dallas County metal examiners is still ending, but we
30:49
Speaker 1: do know they were found in a revolt field not
30:52
Speaker 1: too far from Forthood, Texas, based on a tip at
30:56
Speaker 1: Colleen Police received via the telephone. But the important thing, Nancy,
31:02
Speaker 1: is he was missing since August of twenty nineteen when
31:05
Speaker 1: the Army considered him a wall. Then he ends up
31:08
Speaker 1: in this remote field not far from the base, which
31:10
Speaker 1: really isn't consistent with a wall. And Gregory Morales was
31:15
Speaker 1: set to get out of the army and tour of
31:17
Speaker 1: service just weeks before our weeks after he went missing. Nancy,
31:23
Speaker 1: you know, we know that the remains Gregory Wheedle Morales
31:26
Speaker 1: were found in an open field just minutes away from
31:30
Speaker 1: Fort Hood. Investigators working the scene talked about the agony
31:35
Speaker 1: of not knowing what had happened to Gregory. Back to
31:39
Speaker 1: a special guest joining us, his mother, Kim, Kim, what
31:43
Speaker 1: happened the last day that you saw Gregory alive? He
31:49
Speaker 1: had actually called me. We were texting back and forth mainly,
31:53
Speaker 1: but he had called me that day just tell me
31:56
Speaker 1: that he had bought a new car recently, because I
31:59
Speaker 1: was trying to help him find a new car. And
32:05
Speaker 1: he started texting back and forth about needing some gas money.
32:09
Speaker 1: And that's pretty much our last conversation. He was just
32:14
Speaker 1: struggling financially, but he was He was just happy. He
32:18
Speaker 1: was going to be out soon. He had plans. He
32:21
Speaker 1: was telling me about to go to school. I just yeah,
32:29
Speaker 1: I told him, isn't it true, miss Wheedle, that your son,
32:37
Speaker 1: your boy? I have a twelve yea all Son right
32:39
Speaker 1: now is still considered a wall until the autopsy comes back,
32:45
Speaker 1: and you want that status changed. The Army's saying, unless
32:49
Speaker 1: the autopsy shows he's been dead the entire time he's
32:53
Speaker 1: been missing. They will not change his status. Therefore, you
32:58
Speaker 1: and your family get no benefits with an a wall determination.
33:02
Speaker 1: Is that true? That's true. I can't believe this. I
33:07
Speaker 1: can't believe what's happening, Vincent Hill. They dropped the ball
33:11
Speaker 1: the army. The army, and my dad was in the Navy.
33:14
Speaker 1: I'm all for the military, but they dropped the ball
33:17
Speaker 1: on the Knesset game. They dropped it. Now they're dropping
33:22
Speaker 1: it with Gregory as well. Vincent. Yeah, Nancy, I couldn't
33:26
Speaker 1: agree more. And you know again, I grew up military.
33:30
Speaker 1: I was in the military. The concept that Gregory would
33:33
Speaker 1: go a wall just weeks before he was due to
33:36
Speaker 1: get out is ridiculous at best. So the fact that
33:40
Speaker 1: the Army is still holding on and putting the family
33:43
Speaker 1: through this thing that says, oh, well, if he wasn't
33:46
Speaker 1: dead at least ten months, where still gonna consider him
33:49
Speaker 1: a wall? Obviously he did not put himself in that field.
33:53
Speaker 1: So the fact whether he was or wasn't a wall
33:55
Speaker 1: to be relevant to the US, And the reality is
33:59
Speaker 1: to you, doctor Chris Perry. If they can't come up
34:02
Speaker 1: with a cause of death, they certainly are not going
34:04
Speaker 1: to come up with the time and date of death.
34:06
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, that's the time and date of death
34:11
Speaker 1: in you, mister Morales, is virtually impossible to ascertain from
34:17
Speaker 1: a forensic pathology standpoint. You know, we know that his
34:22
Speaker 1: phone mysteriously go silent. He was looking forward to getting
34:26
Speaker 1: out of the military, going to college. Then suddenly he's
34:30
Speaker 1: no longer answering Facebook, his phone or other messages. Then
34:35
Speaker 1: he doesn't show up at Fort Hood? Is that how
34:39
Speaker 1: it went out? To Gregory's mother, Kim Wheedle, That's exactly right.
34:43
Speaker 1: His phone was dead almost immediately from the I mean,
34:48
Speaker 1: he's a typical, typical guy. His phone was never dead.
34:52
Speaker 1: He made sure he charged it and from the first
34:55
Speaker 1: time we tried to reach him, it just went straight
34:59
Speaker 1: to voicemail. Did he go from a wall to desertion? Status?
35:04
Speaker 1: That he deserted? That's Army protocol, and he went from
35:09
Speaker 1: a wall to desert He has been murdered and found
35:12
Speaker 1: in a shallow grave. And the only reason he was
35:14
Speaker 1: found is because Vanessa Ghia went missing. That's why he
35:18
Speaker 1: was found. Now, how far away Vincent Hill was his
35:23
Speaker 1: body found from Fort Hood? Nanty I believe it was
35:26
Speaker 1: less than ten miles from Fort Hood. But the important
35:31
Speaker 1: part here the field. I think unless you knew that
35:35
Speaker 1: field was there, it's not a typical place you would
35:38
Speaker 1: just go to dump a body. I think someone whoever
35:41
Speaker 1: did this knew that field was there. They knew exactly
35:44
Speaker 1: where to place Gregory where he wouldn't be found for
35:47
Speaker 1: quite some time because it's not on an open road
35:50
Speaker 1: where you can just see it from a street or highway.
35:54
Speaker 1: It's pretty hidden. Nancy, Okay, you Sheryl McCollum, you're the
35:57
Speaker 1: crime scene expert, director of the cold case research is
36:00
Speaker 1: to do you weigh in? The Army said there's no
36:03
Speaker 1: credible link between Vanessa and mister Morales, and I disagree.
36:08
Speaker 1: Number one, they're from the same base, same rate. They
36:11
Speaker 1: were both listed as a wall. They both left valuables
36:13
Speaker 1: behind like money and clothing. They were both ignored by
36:16
Speaker 1: the Army for months. They were both found murdered. They
36:21
Speaker 1: were both found murdered in shallow graves. They were both
36:24
Speaker 1: last seen owner near the base. The Army has had
36:28
Speaker 1: little contact with the family, won't share anything with the family.
36:31
Speaker 1: They both had cell phone stop immediately and both bodies
36:34
Speaker 1: were about thirty miles from the base in the same
36:36
Speaker 1: general area near that river. Really, seriously, we have a
36:42
Speaker 1: problem at Fort Hood and they're doing nothing about it
36:45
Speaker 1: except deny, deny, deny, And look, I am not a
36:49
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorist at all. I don't think people are a
36:53
Speaker 1: smart enough for a conspiracy or be smart enough to
36:56
Speaker 1: keep their yapt shut at least would you agree with that?
36:58
Speaker 1: Troy s Layton really hard to keep a secret, and
37:02
Speaker 1: that's why we saw That's why we saw our woman
37:08
Speaker 1: who's been arrested immediately open up her mouth and help
37:12
Speaker 1: police and lead them on a golden path to all
37:17
Speaker 1: the different places where you're not getting to me Slighton.
37:21
Speaker 1: I still envision her cackling over Vanessa's body as it
37:24
Speaker 1: burns and a pit. But the point is, I don't
37:28
Speaker 1: think there's a conspiracy, but I do think Sheryl McCollum
37:31
Speaker 1: is right. I think there is a direct link. It's
37:34
Speaker 1: just too many similarities now I'm talking about Vanessa to Gregory.
37:40
Speaker 1: There's too many similarities at least when it comes to
37:45
Speaker 1: wrong negligence on the part of Fort Hood. Kim Wheatle
37:51
Speaker 1: Gregory's mother, what is your message to Fort Hood today.
37:56
Speaker 1: My message to Forthood is that they need to just
37:59
Speaker 1: step up and try and find a way to fix
38:02
Speaker 1: these problems so that they can protect the soldiers who
38:04
Speaker 1: are still there. They failed on many levels to protect
38:08
Speaker 1: my son and Vanessa, and there's several others who are
38:12
Speaker 1: also missing with no information on them. Miss Wheedle, can
38:17
Speaker 1: you do me a favor? Can you just tell me
38:20
Speaker 1: one story about Gregory as he was growing up? Just
38:26
Speaker 1: anything I want to. I want to know something about
38:30
Speaker 1: him as a person. Gregory was You're gonna make me cry.
38:40
Speaker 1: One of those special kids who just loved everybody. Probably
38:49
Speaker 1: my favorite memory is just watching him around our living room.
38:53
Speaker 1: He loved a movie about Lane Frost eight Seconds, and
38:57
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a bullwriter and he would get
39:00
Speaker 1: on his stick horse and run through the house showing, okay, boys, okay,
39:06
Speaker 1: it's just oh goodness. He was just a kid who
39:16
Speaker 1: wanted everybody to be a happy old time. He hated
39:20
Speaker 1: people to be upset. You'd try to make them laughs.
39:24
Speaker 1: You know, Miss Wheedle, I'm on your side. If there's
39:31
Speaker 1: anything we Crime Stories can do to help you, we will.
39:38
Speaker 1: And I pray the Army comes to its sensus but
39:41
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna take action as well. Nancy Grace
39:46
Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,