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SMNTY Classics: Bisexuality: Part 1 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't welcome to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: stuff I've never told your protection. I heart radio. Samantha.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Did you ever watch The X Files? I watched a
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: couple of episodes, but you have to remember I grew
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: up in a very Christian home and anything about aliens,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: as well as the fact that, you know, I think
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the obvious sexual chemistry that was supposed to be there
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: between the two characters was like a no no o
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: my house. Wow okay, And I think I was too
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: young to really get into it. So and when I
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: stay too young, as in like I didn't sneak off
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: on myself to try to watch it anywhere, right right, right? Right? Okay? Huh. Well,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I loved The X Files, and I think I've told
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the story before. But me and my friend would watch
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: it because we were watching it, you know, ye olden times,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and we were neighbors that we would get on like
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a landline phone and we would watch it together. But
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: her TV was slightly faster than mine, so I would
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: hear her gasp like right before something scary happened. I too,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: was not supposed to watch it for a while, but
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that's because the Killer B episode scared me so badly. Yeah,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think back, because I was thirteen when
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: it first started. How old were you? I would have
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: been like five, so that they let you watch it
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: at five. I think I started in later. I don't
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: think I started from the very beginning. I went back,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: but my older brother watched it, so it's possible that
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: it was on and I was just around. But I
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: think I watched that Killer b when I was like
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: seven or eight. Oh, it scared me to this day.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Killer bees big meters. I don't blame you, uh yeah,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: which is interesting because I did have the phobia of
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: aliens as well. But there are certain things that for
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: some reason I was able to put up with when
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: it came to that phobia. I don't know why, but
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: that was that was a big part of the prank
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: that was played on me. But I bring this up
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: because it is Pride Month as we're recording this. Who
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: knows when you're actually listening to this, and we wanted
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to bring back our two partner that we did on
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: bisexuality with just this host a wonderful guest. Yes, um,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: some of our very favorites and one of the stories
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I often tell is how watching that show was my
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: first inkling that I might be bisexual because I was
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: attracted to both Molder and Scully and I was very
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: confused by this. And it's not an isolated experience. I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: know at least two other people that had the same
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: thing with that show. Um, the amount of jokes about
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: having threesomes with Scully and Molder look alike, it's pretty rampant.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: As the fact is in a Sex and the City episode. Yes, wow,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: you're welcome. I mean it made a huge impact. Like
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the other day, we were talking about the Scully effect,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: which is a name that was given and is still
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: used for trying to recruit people into women and girls
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: into stem or Steam specifically, and then I know this
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: is in our fan fiction episode, but I wanted to
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: share the story again because I don't know that you
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: know this, Samantha. But Exiles fan fiction was one of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the first big like magazine but online fan fiction as well,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: even though there was not really a website for it. It
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: It was kind of like those bulletin board things people
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: used to do. And the fan fiction got so big
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: in Scotland that Scotland Yard investigated because they thought it
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: was some type of cult writing. That's exile fiction. That's amazing. Yes, yes,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I've never read excele spand fiction. Mhm the guest time.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that would be so fun. I should
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I should do that because it would be such a
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: blast from the pastor me. Anyway, please enjoy part one
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: of this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samaita,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: and welcome to stuff I've never told to your protection
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: of I heart radio and how stuff works. So trigger
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: warning right off the bat for this one. Um, we're
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: talking about bisexuality to day, and along with that, we
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: are going to talk about some some aspects of sexual assaults, suicidality,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: mental health issues, and domestic violence. Right and um, of
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: course it's now no longer Pride Month, but I'm gonna
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: go ahead and celebrate Pride Year. Can we do that? Um,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: so happy Pride Year everyone, anyway. UM, just coming in.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: So in our last episode on sexuality, I incorrectly stated
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: from a source the binary definition, which brought on several
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: reactions on both our emails. I believe in our social
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: media and I wanted to make sure that we came
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: back and addressed it because I do not want to
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: be a part of the biphobic culture, and I want
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: to celebrate everything that has to do with loving two people.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: That's just kind of the end of statement. And I
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: was horrified. I was like, I don't I don't know
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: want I just did UM. And of course we have
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: had in past hosts do episodes and they were very good.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: They were very good. And I came and kind of
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: like kind of pounced on that in one sentence, and
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: so I was like, Annie, we gotta make it clear
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: that we want to make sure we educate because I
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: don't want to be part of the problem. And I
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: also want to say on air that I pologize for
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the incorrect statement. UM. And so we came together and
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: I've had so many different reactions, like I said on
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: social media, and UM, I wanted to make sure that
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I got to talk to them, and with that I
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: didn't meet or actually, I'll say, meat is that meat?
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: If I don't make that a really long discussion about
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: this other day because the meat feels kind of not real.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: But I want to be like friends with everybody, Like
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I've talked to you now and we've bonded over a
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: few things. So I was gonna say, I feel like
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: it's real. I just it also has an I think
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: it's dismissed. It sounds funny when I type thanks to
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: meet you, he meet you. Um, so I'll just say
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I met yes, um, several people that had responded to
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: that episode, and we have a few people that I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: did talk with on this episode, and we interviewed several
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: people who specialize in a specific field that includes the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: LGBTQ community as well, specifically to buy community. Um and
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: so from the very beginning, I want you to know
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: this is my man cupa to that statement. Yes, and I, um,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I'm also sorry because I was bad co host. I
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: should have caught it and I didn't. Um. And yeah,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: just I apologize for any damage or confusion we've caused.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: There's already a lot out there. We don't want to
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: add to it. Um. So I'm really thrilled that we
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: have everyone that we got to talk to you to day.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm always I'm amazed that people agreed to talk
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: to were so cool. All right. I think several of
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: our episodes like can we be friends? Yes? Yes? Um
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: so yeah, this has been this episode has been a
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: long time coming. Um. We did touch on it in
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the episode Bridget and I did on pan sexuality and
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Kristen Caroline pasco host, they did an episode on it
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: um and yeah, we have so many good conversations. This
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: is going to be a two parter. Everybody was delightful. Yeah,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: it's too much. We couldn't say I just couldn't say. No.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I want to keep you and you and you keep going.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And um. One of our interviewees, uh Dr Tanngela Roberts Um,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: she used a term that I've never heard before, called
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: me search and she's going to go into that later.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: But sometimes I feel like I'm doing that on this show,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: like right, oh, this is me search because um, for
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: people who don't know. For a long time, I did
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: identify as bisexual. UM. And now thanks to this podcast,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I believe I have arrived at by romantic a sexual.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: So thanks to everybody who wrote in about it, appreciate you.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Feel like being able to define it gives you a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: little more I don't know what the word is. Do
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: you feel more complete or how do you feel about
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: defining to have an actual definition of it. I feel
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: more clarity around things that I have done in my
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: life and less confusion and especially looking back around conversations
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I had with friends when I was in high school
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: and college, and everybody was so like into wanting to
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: have sex or having sex, and I just was pretending
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: like going along with it and didn't feel it. But
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: at the same time, I did experience some kind of
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: like attraction UM to multiple genders, so I couldn't figure
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: it out, I guess, and for anyone who's UM wondering,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: for a very brief definition, romantic attraction usually involves an
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: emotional and or physical attraction UM, which is often tied
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to sexual attraction but not always. Sexual attraction is a
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: desire for sexual contact and sexual relationship, and some people
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: feel both, some people feel neither, some people feel one
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: or the other. It might very based on the person.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: It might vary based on what phasier and in your life. UM.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: So it is I feel mostly clarity and a story
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I brought up in a lot of these interviews and
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I was asking questions is how a friend and I
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago were talking about how we
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: didn't know by was a thing when we were growing up,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: but we were just confused that we liked both Molder
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and Scully on the show The X Files, and almost
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: everyone we interviewed, was like, yes, it made my nerd
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: heart grow ten sizes. Um, there just wasn't awareness around it.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And in a lot of ways that is still problem.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Right as I got older and I realized I was
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: attracted to more than one gender, I didn't want to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: say it out loud because I felt like I could
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: pass as straight and that I had access to heterosexual privilege.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I had no right saying that I was in any
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: way a part of the LGBTQ plus community. And this
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: is something I still struggle with. And I have definitely
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: just kind of been strugged off before as either you're
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: being experimental or one day you'll realize you're lesbian or something. Right, Um,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm not aloning that and we'll get into that
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: more later as well. Um. And I will say when
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I was in high school, I was I was well liked,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: but I was seen as weird. There were a lot
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: of rumors about me. Um. So when I started displaying
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: attraction to more than one gen, people would sort of
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: be like, well, that's so Danny being Annie. She's a
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: little strange. Um, she's like that voice, she's that's because
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that's how they are in my head that I like
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: to remember them. She's just looking for a thrill, she's
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: just trying to be interesting. And I did internalize a
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: lot of that. Um So that is something that in
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: my own honestly very limited experience growing up in a
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: small town, I did see. So. Uh. But that's enough
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: about me, never and us, thank you. You can have
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of ground to cover, right, So let's get
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: into our interviews, and we'll start with some intros and
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: let them talk about some of the badass stuff they're doing. Hi.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: My name is Dr Tanngela Roberts, I used to her
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: her pronouns. I am an assist professor of Childing Psychology
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: at Western Michigan University in Calamazoom, Michigan. UM. I have
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: a background in Calfrank psychology. UM I do research on
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: LGBT population, specifically with bisexuality and LGBT people of color,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and clinical work similarly with LGBT population and adolescent So.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I'm Diana Adams and I have been a bisexuality activist
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: for twenty years. I'm also an activist as a polyamorous person,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and I have a nonprofit of which i'm executive director,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Chosen Family Law Center, that supports people who are lgbt
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Q I as well as people who are polyamorous and
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: an alternative family structures such as platonic co parenting. And
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I have a peak law firm UM that serves private
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: clients UM based in New York City, and I'm excited
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: to be on to speak about some of the issues
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: of being bisexuality in the LGBTQ commit Continuum. I am
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Herrn Greensmith. I am the senior Research analysts of Political
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Research Associate, where I monitor the anti lgbt TO I
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: write here in the US and abroad, and I'm also
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a volunteers because the attorney for bisexual and tense sexual communities.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: So I have a personal label and a community label.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: My personal label is queer because I think UM identify
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and I've heard other folks identify UM with using it
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: as a way to say quickly to someone I am
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: not is this gender heterosexual person? You may not know
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: exactly how my queerness manifest but I'm not assist straight
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: person UM and for me personally, queerness as I struggle
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: kind of to identify what exactly my gender identity is
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: UM as I struggled to deal with by phobia internalized
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: by phobia. Queer for me is a way in my
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: heart to maintain my action to my communities as my
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: labels and my gender identity are influx. UM. On the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: other hand, bisexual is my community label because those are
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: the people who I march with in pride, Those are
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the people who whose pins I wear. Those are my best, deepest,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you know, most important and powerful relationships in the queer
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: community at large, the people who might share the most
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: experiences with of buy invisibility and by erat or um
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: from gay, lesbian and straight people. UM and so I
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: will always be the community that I'm allied with. But
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I identify as a queer person UM, and I use
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: that to mean I'm not straight and siff. I am
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Tanya Israel. I'm a professor of tompling clinical and school
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: psychology at the University California, Santa Barbara, and I UM
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: do a lot of work around bisexuality. I've been doing
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: research on how to best help LGBT que people UM
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: to thrive and with their potential. UM. I've been doing
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: that for over twenty years now. UM. And the b
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: part of it was was a piece of it, but
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: it hadn't been so much the focus until three years ago.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I was reading this book about public speaking and it
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: was about how to give a TED talk, and I
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, I know what I would want to
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: give a TED talk about. And so that led me
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: down this path of actually giving a talk at TED
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: XBC l A on bisexuality and beyond. I had the
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: whole you know, concept that that I was that I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was sharing, and but then once I did that and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: it was up on YouTube, it was like, oh, now
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I am Tanya Israel International Expert on bisexuality. Yeah. So
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: so suddenly, you know, people are asking me to come
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: and give talks and you know, do all these things
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: throughout bisexuality. I was like, this is great. I love
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: doing this. I you know, got invited to, you know,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: be part of a gathering of a bunch of researchers
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: about who are doing work on bisexual health. UM. I
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: got invited to the UH White House Bisexual Community Policy
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Forum UM and there were two of those that happened
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: in the previous administration UM and UH and and then
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: recently I taught a course on bisexuality at UCSB and
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: so so it's just become much more of a focus
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: of what I'm doing, including my research, my teaching, my activism. UM.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: When I started doing all of these things around bisexuality
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: all over the country, I was feeling in such by
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: community and then I was like, I have to bring
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: that back home. So then I I started a bisexual
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: discussion group in Santa Barbara where I live, and that's
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: been going on for a couple of years. Now. I'm
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: part of a statewide grant on lgbt Q mental health
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: where I'm specifically focusing on like supporting bi sexual mental health.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: So it's really exciting for me that I've been able
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: to to do a lot more of this because I
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: feel like it's such an important um part of the
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: LGBTQ community, and also, by the way, I'm bisexual, so
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: it has a lot of personal meaning for me as well.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: We tend to assume people are the sexual orientation depending
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: on the sex of whatever partner they are with, if
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: they're gay or a straight or lesbian. One article I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: found on medium described being by as being Schrodinger's cat,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: appearing either straight or gay when observed, but being both
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: at once when unobserved. Tanya and she said we could
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: call her that even though she's a doctor and if
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: I was a doctor, doctor all the time, I was
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: like to turn this, I will not call you anything
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: about doctor. She has on an amazing way of dealing
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: with this head on. So you know, one of the
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: things for people who are bisexual is that you have
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: to come out constantly because you know, there's not a
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: way that people can tell you by the gender of
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: your partner or your history or anything like that you're
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: bisexual specifically. So I have these business cards that say
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: um Tanya Israel, um Biracial Asian, American, Bisexual, Jewish, Buddhist seminist.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: So I become like like a professional bisexual. I would say,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like I am out there everywhere that I am like,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I am representing bisexuality really loudly and soundly, because time
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: of it is I feel fine being allowed and found
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: bisexual and not everybody does, and so I feel like
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: that's fine. I'm happy to do this and be out
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: there for all of us. Um. I think that the
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: bisexual community is really diverse, and and I embrace like,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: like the whole bisexual communities, people who are out of,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: people who aren't out, people who are you know, in
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: relationship with people of whatever gender, people who aren't in relationship,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: people who don't want to be activists, that don't even
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: want to you know, people to know like like they're
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: all part of bisexual community, and I'm like, okay, my
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: my role in all of this is to just be
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: like the joyful, um, you know, out there bisexual person.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: So now you've met our amazing panels, let's get started
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: with a baseline definition. Pretty much all of our interviewees
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: brought up the definition of Robin Oaks. Here's heron I
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: knews Um. Robin Oakes's definition. Robin is a form mother
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: of the community. She has been an advocate for forty years.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: She runs the Boston by Women's Network here in Boston
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and it's also um the editor of the By Women's Quarterly,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: which is a quarterly newsletter that comes out the only
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: new letter in the world focused on by women, and
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I encourage everyone to submit. Robin the finds bisexuality as
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: having the potential to be attracted to people of more
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: than one gender. UM doesn't matter, the degree doesn't matter,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the intensity doesn't matter, the time frame, UM, it doesn't
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: matter if the attraction is romantic or sexual, or aesthetic
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: or um other variations on attraction. UM as long as
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: you have the potential to be attracted to people into
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: more than one gender, Um, you are you can call
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: yourself bisexual. There you go. For some folks, there is
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety around the buy in bisexual that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: it supports the gender binary, and along with that some
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: confusion around the difference between pen and by, like we
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, we asked our interviewees about this.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I got linked with you through Twitter because of my
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: miss misstep and miss speaking in the previous podcasts of sexuality,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: which was obviously very outdated and very two like one
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: sided obviously, and you had reached out it's saying these
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: are the things that are incorrect, let's talk. And I
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: love that. And one of the things that we were
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: talking about you were kind of linking us to was
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: the fact that this is a misconception when I was
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: speaking about two genders, mainly because it obviously is bigger
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: than that. Also it was excluding the transgender world and
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: people of community as well, and that was very very telling.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my goodness, she's right and I
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: want to know more about it. So if you don't mind,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: can you speak to UM what exactly is the definition
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: of bisexuality and then just some of the things all
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: around that absolutely, and I really appreciate you being willing
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: to listen. I think these issues are really complicated and
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community is evolving really quickly, which is exciting,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: but sometimes it can be hard for people even in
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the community to keep up, So thank you so much
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: for being willing to listen. The current definition of bisexuality
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: for many people in the by community is being sexually
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: attracted and romantically attracted, not exclusively to people of one gender,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: so allowing for the possibility that the buy as in binary,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: being attracted to people um, who are of your sexual
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: gender and people of the whole other set of potential
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: sexism genders um. And so really it takes away that
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: male female binary um and allows attraction to people who
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: are not just this gender, but people who are transgender
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: as well. And that's an identity and a definition which
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: has evolved over time as we've understood more and included
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: an embrace the transgender community more actively. And I think
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that it's really common in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: community for a lot of emphasis to be placed on
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: same sex couples and both bisexual community and transgender community
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: can sometimes feel a bit left out of some of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the conversations about um these issues, which often mostly focus
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: on less in our gay couples. And I think it's
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: really important that as by people we have solidarity with
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: transgender people. And there are some people who identify as
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: pan sexual and people talk sometimes about the definition of
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: bisexuality versus pan sexuality, and pan sexuality is explicitly trying
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: to make very clear in its wording with the with
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the prefixed pan that it includes multiple potential genders, which
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: would include people who are transgender, people who are intersex potentially,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and it's I think intended to make that very clear.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: But I think it's actually really important for us to
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: hang onto the word bisexual as well. I support people
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: in choosing whichever word makes the most sense to them,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: but bisexual feels important to me because that's our legal
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and medical designation and we need to really hang onto that.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll start with like, yeah, there is the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: term by in the in the label by sexual UM.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: That's a very very like scientific term, right um. And
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that term and the definition that goes with that term
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't derived from the community from bisexual communities. Um. And
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: So typically bisexual communities have definitions that they use. Um.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I don't tend to like believe in like monolithic community,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: so I don't think there's like one LGBT community or
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: one bisexual community. Um. But bisexual communities have definitions that
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: they use. The photo define the orientation. So it's like
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: if someone were to ask me how I identify my bisexuality,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I usually say that I'm attracted to similar and different genders, right,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: So I identify as like a assist sim woman right.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: So similar would be like any for me, any sim
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: expression from anyone that's similar um and different literally for
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: me is anything that's not a SAM expression, so everything
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: else um so expression of masculinity, expressions of it, androgeny um.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: And so that's sort of like how I identify it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: And for me, that's been that's that's been inclusive of
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of things and a lot of people. Um.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Not necessarily and definitely not dependent just on like biological
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: sex or a science sex that worst, but more so
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: UM expression. But I said, some people hear me when
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I say the definition and then say like, oh, well
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: you can, but I don't. I don't understand when, especially
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: among career communities. I don't understand what it's ever acceptable
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: to identify someone for themselves as opposed to going with
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: that person's definition for themselves. But it seems like with
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: by places, by people, it's okay, it's okay to say
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: how you're using this word is wrong, how you're using
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: this definition is wrong, and you need to use something else.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: But outside of that, no one would ever do that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: No one would ever say, like your definition of um,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I don't trans or gender queer or queer in general
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: is wrong and you need to use that. No one
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: would ever ever do that. However you identify as how
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: you identify and which is roll with it. But by
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: people it tends to be a little bit different because
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: they're all those stereotypes and stigmas. So I had you
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: heard this thing about bisexuality, that the term is problematic
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: because by means too. So if you say you're bisexual,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: then does that mean that you're attracted only to two
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: genders and that there are only two genders? And does that, um,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: you know, reinforce this idea that gender is binary. And
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, I don't think gender is binary.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I think gender is really multidimensional and UM and not dichotomous,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you know, so that there's lots, there's probably infinite genders.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And so I started questioning my use of this term bisexual,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and that's sort of what started me on this track. Part. Okay, well,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: then what could I call myself because I, you know,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: because I want to represent in some way that I
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: think that gender is non binary UM. But at the
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: same time, I was really kind of connected to this
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: bisexual identity UM. And And here's something that I want
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: to say about the bisexual identity because a live times
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: when people have this keat, they're like, oh, you know, bisexuality,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: it's it's UM. You know, it's it's like a conservative
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: thing because it's saying that gender is UM is binary.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: But really, when you think about the history of UM
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: people embracing that term bisexuality, particularly, I would say, like
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, when bisexual activism really started
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to grow more, UM, it was a radical thing to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: say that you could be attracted some more than one gender.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And it's you know, I think that this saying that
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: really is UM is a radical way of combating UM,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: this idea of psychotomous gender. You know, binary gender, you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: just saying the gender might not be the most important,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: saying or genders aren't necessarily opposite, that you can actually
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: love more than one gender. I think it's radical, and
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: so I hated the idea of giving up these kind
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: of radical roots of the of of my bisexual identity. Um.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I was like, I don't
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: want to do anything that that's not inclusive of people
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: with non binary gender because that's something that I, you know,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: really um want to support. So I started thinking about
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: it and realized that, you know, there's there's sometimes the
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: difference between how we how we understand gender and who
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: were attracted to so um. So, I mean, a lot
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: of people are only attracted to one gender, it seems.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: And and it's funny how we don't say, if you're
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a heterosexual, lesbian or gay, then you're reinforcing binary gender
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: because you're only attracted to one gender. Like how limiting
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: is that only being attracted to one gender? Like we're
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: not we're not sort of critiquing those other sexual orientations
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: in the same way that we're critiquing bisexuality. So I
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: was like, maybe we need a way to to describe
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: how we understand gender, that's different from how we describe
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: what our actual attractions are. Um. And so that sort
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: of led me in a conversation with with some of
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: my friends colleagues, UM, Roger Worthington and Rebecca for if
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: we're having this whole conversation about like what do we
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: do about this term? You know, and they were sort
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of providing the guides, and Roger Woodlin who said, well
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: what about you know, because I said, I don't think
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: gender is just too I think it's more than two.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's infinite, you know. And he's like, well,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: then what about PI sexuality? And I would like PI
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: sexuality That's exactly it. It's more than two, it's infinite.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Although all the mathematician people are going to be like,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: if not infinite, it's irrational, and so that's a whole
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: mathematic thing. Um, I don't think bisexual people are irrational. Um,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: but I want a way for us, so like represent Okay,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: maybe PI sexuality is a way of saying I think
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: dender is non binary, and then you can be pisexual
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: and then also describe your own attractions and relationships in
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: whatever way you want, and you could be a PI
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: sexual bisexual, which I describe myself as. You could be
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: a pi sexual UM gay man. You could be a
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: pisexual like non binary, UM, a sexual person like you
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: could be like there's all kinds of like different things
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: that you could be. But a way of saying here's
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: how I understand gender, and then a different way of saying,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: here's my attraction. I think I want to I want
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about anomalogy UM because I
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: think that behind somewhat of the Pan and Buy controversy
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: is this reliance upon etymology UM to justify the validity
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: of a sexual orientation. And I just want to highlight
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: that for the absolute both it is that non manufactual people,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: people who have the potential to be attracted to more
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: than one gender, are the only ones who are asked
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to justify the etymology of the label that they use. UM.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is by people are
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: told all the time, but by these two PAN means
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: all you should be PAN. It's more inclusive. It doesn't
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: UM reify the gender binary, to which I say, yeah,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: gay means happy, lesbian means from an island in Greece,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: and straight means level and even. But I don't ask
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: you to prove that you're happy all the time that
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: you're from Greece. Please don't demand that I stand behind
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: the etymology of the label that people commonly use right now,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: for folks who are attracted to more than one gender,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: it's absolute nonsense. But if we want to talk about
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: a sexual orientation reifying the gender binary, how about we
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: talk about straight and gain lesbian people who are either
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: attracted to the opposite the quote unquote opposite gender or
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: the quote unquote same gender. If anyone is reaffying the
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: gender binary, it's straight and gain lesbian people. But we
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: don't accuse them of that because we know that's a
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: specious accusation. Let's please not accused non monosexual people of
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: reifying the gender binary. I know so many trans bisexual
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: people who are being sick of being told that they
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: are reifying the gender binary, especially non binary by people.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: It's just bo. Now that we have some definitions and
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: some etymology, it's time to look at some numbers. That first,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: we're going to pausity a quick break or word from
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So what
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: do statistics tell us about the bisexual community? Here's here
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and again. So one of the reasons I think it's
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: so important to focus not on, you know, whether someone
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: identifies as by your pans um, but focuses on what
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the disparities are feasing the larger non monosexual community is
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: that non monosexual folks comprise the majority non nonosexual identified people,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: that is, people who identify as bisexual. And then in
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: some surveys, people who identify as bisexual or pan sexual
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: comprise the majority of lesbian gay and by folks, they
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: comprise over half of lesbian gay bisexual people. And then
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: when you look at people who have had sexual contact
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: with people of more than one gender, you're now up to,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: you know, a couple of times more than people who
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: have had sexual contacts with only a gender similar to theirs.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And then finally, when you look at people who have
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: experienced sexual attraction to people of more than one gender,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: now you're up In some studies even to like half
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of youth have said that they have the possibility of
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: attraction to more than one gender. So we are we
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: meaning non monosexual people, are you know, more than half
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: of lesbian, gay, bisexual identify people. And then when you
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: start talking about possibility for attraction you're up to maybe
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: have some youth. So we are an enormous part and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: in fact of the majority of the lgb community. And
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I should add here that trans people can be straight, gay,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: left being or by to somebodies that show that trans
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: people are more more likely to identify UM as buyer pans.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: But you know, we don't have any dedicated services or programs.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: We have no funded national group. We have very few uh,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: dedicated programs or departments that any of the LGBT organizations
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I can't think of actually any. We have no paid
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: staff at any of your organizations, any of the by
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: community organizations that do exist UM. There is an absolute
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: dirf of funding UM and that lack of support, supportive services,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: supportive program combine aimed with the bias that bisexual and
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: tense sexual people faith from gay lestian an strate people.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, we have disparities in really distinct areas. I
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: will highlight a couple with here. We have distinct health disparities,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and the one that always bolts me over is our
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: mental health disparities. The Youth Risk Behavior Survey is an
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: annual survey administered in nearly every state and has an
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: optional module that asks sexual orientation and sexual attraction and
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: sexual behavior among girls and apologies for the very gendered language,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: but that's the language used in the third. Among girls
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: who identified as bisexual in states the administered the optional
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: module in twenty I believe sixteen one third of bisexual
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: identified girls had attempted suicide in the past twelve months.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: One third. That is a very big number. It is
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: justin when you think of how many girls identify as bisexual.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: You know, some data shows it's like up to ten
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: or twenty of girls and bisexual. You're looking at a
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: public health crisis. And then when you add the fact
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: that there are not dedicated mental health services for by you,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: you're looking that a mental health crisis that is only
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: going to worsen when people look around and try and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: find supportive communities and don't find anything, and then maybe
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: they access to their gender sexuality alliance at their school
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: and they only face by phobia or pan phobia. The
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: second statistical talk about is our the levels of intimate
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: partner violence to buy people of day by people face
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: such intense levels of domestic partner and intimate partner and
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: sexual violence. But again it is a public health crisis.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I believe that des Indeed, I think maybe sent of
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: by women have faced violence from an intimate partner, and
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: percent of by women have been raped in their lifetime.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Half one in two by women has been raped. There's
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: an organization called and I think it's called the Northwest
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Network of Intimate Partner Violence did a series of focus
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: groups around the country was by female survivors of violence
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: and trans and UH non binary UM and what they've
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: found from these qualitative interviews with the survivors of violence,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: female survivors of violence is that the intimate partner violence
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: faced by by women does not conform sometimes to the
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: cycle of violence that service providers often looked to to
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: help people be safe. What they found instead was that
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: instead of there being like a ramping up of control
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: that may precede moments of physical violence, that often these
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: survivors talked about violence being preceded by a moment of
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: coming out as by or a partner realizing that their
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: partner was bisexual, and that being the flash point. And
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: again they're not being conversation about that, They're not being
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: open conversations about how biphobia leads to violence, about how
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: biophobia can lead to corrective rape, but how partners can
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: view the partners bi sexuality to isolate them from their
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: friends and family, to control them, to say that you know,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to use it as a weapon. UM. And given the
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: the number of women who identify as by again, you
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: have a public health crisis. And then the finals that
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I'll mention is economic insecurity UM and I think it's
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: again forty percent of by women UM live at or below.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's thirty thousand dollars a year for a
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: household UM. And you know, together you have a picture
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: of by people who face bias at work, who face
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: bias at school, who are being turned out by their family,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: of homeless you identify as bisexual twenty percent, you have
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: used who are being removed from their families by their parents,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: who are facing violence in foster and adoptive placements, and
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: who are turning to streets. Then when they look for
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: supportive communities, they don't find by supportive communities, they find
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: UM violence with partners whom they may have to turn
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: to for housing or for food. You have a lack
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: of economic security, and you have isolation, erasure, and invisibility.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: And this is not to say that by folks aren't resilient.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: We have an incredibly rising, beautiful community full of artists
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: and musicians and lawyers like myself and UM activists and advocates,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: but what we also have is a crisis of erasier
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and invisibility that is leading to directly to yes. So
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: that was very sobering for me, the lack of community
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: and the level of bias bisexuals face on all sides,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: least to all sorts of negative outcomes. I'm I'm a
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: data geek. There's been some emerging research, um, you know
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: from Dr Roberts, who I extented VIE with and then
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: uh with Brian Dodge and Wendy Bostick. Um. But Dr
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Dodge has been doing some incredible research into by its
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: facing bisexual people and actually has developed a metric to
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: measure it, and his emerging research is showing that BY
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: people face intense levels of bias and erasure and discrimination
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: from gay and lesbian and straight people. They face quantitatively
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: slightly more discrimination from straight people, which is unsurprising just
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: given the fact that probably more gay and lesbian identified
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: people know a BY person preely for proximities sake. Being
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: a queer community UM, whereas straight people may not know
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: a by person or out by person, either because out
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: by people don't feel safe to be out around a
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: straight person or because they don't have a one in
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: their friend or family circle. More likely that people don't
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: feel safe to come out around them because we are everywhere. UM.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: But what Dr Dodges research has shown is that bias
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: and narrature from gay and lesbian people hurt by people
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: so much more deeply. And I believe that's because we
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: are taught that we are supposed to be part of
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: the same community, right the queer community, LGBTQ community. We're
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: supposed to have community centers together and do a pride together,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: and when you face bias within our supposed community, it
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: being hurt out in sense and just go UM. I
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: believe it was a by group, although I can clarify
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: that looked at the mental health of women moving into
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the day area from rural or suburban areas around the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: cities Oakland and Champson is going Berkeley, UM and found
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: something really interesting and what you'll find this now unsurprising.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: So both lesbians and by women in rural more rural
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: areas reported lower levels of UH mental health well being,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: mental well being, And when the lesbian women moved into
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: the city, what do you suspect their mental well being did.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: We're staring at each other, like, who's going to answer this.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I would think that it had increased obviously with a
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: little more access for them specifically. Factually, yeah, they found community.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: More specifically, they found places with like minded people, people
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: who had similar life experiences. They found programs and services
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: that supported them um and that improved their their mental health.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: What about the buy women went down? I was going
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: to say, you don't went down or stay the same
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: in the sense of it went down. It went down,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: and I suspect that it went down because of their
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: level of expectation and then disappointment. You're like, I'm gonna
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: move to the city. I'm gonna find people like me,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to finally be supported. I'm gonna find mental
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: health services. I'm going to find a community group and
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it's like a chat group and we can go to dinner,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: and then a there aren't those things, and then be
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: when you try and find community with other lgbt Q women,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: you face science instead, and people say that you're not
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: queer enough to be part of their community. People interrogate
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: how many relationships you've had with people of speciftic genders,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: and it can have an incredibly negative impact on your
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: mental health. It turned out bisexual people's face a lot
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: of challenges related to mental health, and so so I'll
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that, and then I can
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about why that is too in
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: terms of sexual orientation of you know, if you're looking
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: at lesbian, gay, bisexual. And by the way, when I
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: say bisexual, um, you know, I sort of think about
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: that as the bi plus category of um all non
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: monosexual people. So people might identify as hand sexual, or
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: some people identify as queer um or polysexual. There's a
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: lot of different terms that people are going to use, UM.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: But so when I say bisexual, to little bit poor
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: cand but but I'm thinking of it very exclusively. Bisexual people,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: um are the most vulnerable sexual orientation in terms of
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of mental health issues. And some of these,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: you know, very a little bit depending on what's gender
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: of the bisexual person you're talking about. But there are
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: things like suicidality, anxiety, depressions, um, you know, really serious
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: things um uh, alcohol and other drug use. You know,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: that there there are mental health um diagnoses and issues
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: that bisexual people faith more severely and more often than
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: other sexual orientations to. And people are sometimes surprised to
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: hear that because they say, well, but I thought bisexual
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: people like, uh, they've got heterosexual privilege and so you know,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: they can pass and so and and it's easier than
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: being less iner gain a and so it's this is
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: why it's important that we like disaggregate the data, that
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: we pull out the data about the bisexual people so
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: we can really understand things, because it turns out that
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of the mental health vulnerabilities that we've talked
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: about applying to lesbian, gay, bisexual people, really the bisexual
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: people in those samples are are the ones who are experiencing, um,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: that pattern that we've been attributing to all sexual minority people. Okay,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: so there there's a couple of things that are unique
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: stressors for bisexual people, UM that that aren't the same
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: for lesbian and gay people or heterosexual people. UM, but bisexuality, Uh,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: people don't even believe that it exists, you know that.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of times people will um say, oh, well, bisexuality,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: that's really just here on your way to being lesbian
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: or gay, or you're lying, or you're confused, or you
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: don't understand. There's lots of different ways of of erasing
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: by sexuality and saying it doesn't really exist. Um. But
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: but in truth, you know, it's true. Like some people
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: do identify as bisexual, um, and then later identify as
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: lesbian and gay. But some people also identify lesbian and
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: gay and then later identify as bisexual. Or some people
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: just identify as bisexual from the start and say that way.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of variation in that. That's that, um,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: but that's not a reason to um, to dismiss the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: existence of bisexuality. The other thing is that, um, there's
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: so little bisexual visibility, both in media representations of bisexuality
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: but also in communities. You know, so we don't often see, um,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: you know, Pride to coming up this weekend in a
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: bunch of cities that already happened in other places, and
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: bisexuality does you know, isn't that visible despite the fact
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: that there are more bisexual people than lesbians and gay
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: men put together, Like you would think that in the
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: in the pride parades, over half the people in there
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: should be bisexual and we should be seeing like pink
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and blue and purple all over the place during prime,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: but that's not what happens. And so so that visibility
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: is really important for people to feel like, you know,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: that that they feel legitimate, that they feel like they
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: can find their community, they can see people like them,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: and that's important for mental health as well. And then
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: that last thing is just the feeling of community and
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: and connection to other people. So, um, it's great that
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: there's you know, strong lesbian and gay community and a
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: lot of places that you know, decades ago didn't exist,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: you know, fifty years ago before Stone Wall, we didn't
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: have that. So it's great that we have that. But
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: often lesbian and gay communities are not very welcoming of
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: bisexual people. And so there's there's a lot of by
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: people like hiding out in lesbian and gay communities, you know,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: who don't feel like they can be open about it.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: And then there are people who are bisexual who can
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: keep saying that they're bisexual that people keep forgetting or
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: dismissing it or not believing it or whatever. So so
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: it's really hard to feel um validated and accepted and
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: supported when when you don't have that. So I'll tell
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: you that there's been some research on um, bisexual people
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: and therapy and and so. And let me talk about
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: young bisexual women because there's there's a study that came
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: out in by Slanders um and and colleagues UM that
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: that specifically about young bisexual women's perceptions of their mental
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: health and um, so and and women like there's there's
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: even a higher percentage of women who are bisexual than
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: than men who are and so it's it's important for
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: us to understand what's going on here, although we really
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: need representation of them too, so UM. But but in
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: this particular study, UM, they said, UM, the women said
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: that health care providers seem to not know much about bisexuality,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: and they became exhausted from having to explain their identity
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: to other people and especially mental health providers, and it
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: just seemed like there weren't a lot of by inclusive resources.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: So that's something important to know, is that that mental
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: health providers are not meeting the needs of bisexual people.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: Like there's this there's this highly vulnerable population that mental
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: health providers like don't know how to affirm and how
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: to assist so that's something important UM in terms of
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: what we can actually do for bisexual people. Like, one
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: thing is sometimes when mental health providers are trying to
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: be affirming of lesbian and gay people, they sometimes forget
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: about bisexuality. So I think that the first thing is
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: to remember that your clients might be bisexual. So if
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: they're talking about same gender attractions, then not to assume
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: that they're lesbian or gay and like helps them along
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: this path to an affirming lessian or gay identity. But
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: really UM fold of space for the complexity of sexual orientation,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: whatever people end up doing with their identities and whatnot,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: just trying to UM allow people to UM to have
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: that complexity of sexual orientations. One of the things that
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I think is a really useful tool in working with
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: bisexual clients is the Client Sexual Orientation Guide UM, because
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: it's UM acknowledges that there's many dimensions of sexual orientation. UM.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: There's you know, sexual attraction, there's sexual behavior, there's identity,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: there's who your community is. So there's all of these
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: different things and each of those can really be thought
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: about on a continuum, and they can also be thought
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: about in terms of where you are now, where you've
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: been in the past, and you might have like where
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: you see yourself in the future, or maybe an ideal
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: of where you'd like to be with that. And the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: nice thing about that is that it allow house for
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: there to be differences. Like people might say, Okay, well
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: I have you know, I fantasize about these kinds of people,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: but you know, but I've only had relationships with these
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: kinds of people and you know, and so so those
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: those things that might be seen as discrepancies in in
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: other situations can actually all be held in one space
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: and say, you know what, sexual orientation is just really
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: complex and um and we need to understand that. So
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: so I think that that that can be a really
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: helpful tool. We need to have visibility lessians and you know,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: gay men need to um need to welcome by sexual people.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Not to say because that would be nice, I'm saying,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: it's because there's a serious this to not doing it
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: like we are. We are abandoning some of the most
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: vulnerable people in our community. If we're not, you know,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: stepping up and and providing that support. A term you've
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: heard as use is mono sexism. We asked Dr Roberts,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: who who has a match President Obama, by the way,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: and she has also done some research around mono sexism
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: to expound on it. But before we get into that,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: we have one more quick break for word from our
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Here's Dr Roberts.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: So mono sexism. Um, there's this idea that you have
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: monosexual orientations and those are individuals that are just attracted
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: to one sexual one general representation. UM. So people who
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: are heado sexual are mono sexual as well. UM. Similarly,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: people who are lesbian, o gay are mono sexual because
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: they're acted to multiple expressions just that one. UM. So
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: that's what mono sexual is. And then you have um,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: non monosexual identities including bisexual, including just like general player
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: including a sexual UM and those are just individuals who
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: are attracted to more than one UM gender identity and
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: or sexual UM sexual idea. So mono sexism then is
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: like this idea that if you're attracted to more than one,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: that's wrong. You have to take a side. And so
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: it's theories that by people get um interesting so enough
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: from both sides phone quote, and that straight people saying like, oh,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: you're not straight enough because you still have this other
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: attraction and les being engaged people saying the same thing,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: like you're not gay enough because you still have this
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: other attraction. So model sexismages this idea that if you
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: have this additional attraction, then there's gonna be some discrimination.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Because one of the reasons we wanted to speak with
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: you is UM. You wrote UM or you were part
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: of a paper between a gain a straight place by
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: sexual individuals experiences with monosexism. UM. Could you go into
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: the work that you did with that? Oh yeah, so
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: that's that. That was one of my academic babies, is
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I like to call it UM. So that initially was
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: my master's thesis when I was at the University of Wisconsin, Madison,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: and part of that study, I collected data on oh
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: gosh UM over twelve hundred or so UM bisexual identified
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: people and I UM. It was like online survey, so
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: I asked questions about their experiences with discrimination UM, both
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: from heterosexual people and from LGBC communities, because I wanted
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: to see UM based on my own experience, whether or
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: not there is a difference and like the discrimination and
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: unfortunate biphobia that by people get from both communities. So
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I end up finding that there there was a difference
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: in the amount of black shobia that by people experience
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: from gay and straight communities, but realistically, like that difference
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: was so so, so so small, and I stant to say,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: like it's like you're in a room and you have
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: two people yelling at you and one person, like the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: straight group is yelling at you like two decibel tires,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: then the gay group. They're both still yelling at you.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: At some point you can barely tell the difference between
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: like the volume, but there is like a statistically significant difference.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: So there was like a significant difference, but there is
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: still extreme amount of blackobia experience UM by bi sexual
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: people from so heterosexual and listening it, I personally have
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: known um other friends that I know who are by
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: who who are married to fis men, and they're like, oh,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I'm by I'm part of the community. I want to
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: go to this like drag show or I want to
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: go to this Pride event, and they've been accosted at
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the event, like they've had people come up. Like one
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: of my really close friends she says that she has
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: someone come up to her table and said, what are
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: you doing here? You're straight? Girl, and she's like, I'm
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: not I'm not a straight girl, Like this is my
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: community too, So it really is just like feeling like
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: you don't belong. Um. I've had individuals in my life
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: who were identified as I'm sort of squere um, I
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: want to challenge me on my definition of bisexuality and
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: like assuming that I sort of perpetuate this binary and
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: that I'm like anti trans, which is completely not the
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: issue at all, um. But it's more so like they
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: have this definition of bisexual in their heads. Um they've
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: been taught or learned or heard from other other communities
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: that aren't by communities people. They aren't really listening to
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: definitions of bifexuality that come from by community. Um. And
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: so there seems to be in this clash that's there
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: and lately now, like it said, it's it's a lot
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: of like I didn't know you were insert persons who's
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: perpetuating the binary and doesn't like trans people. And even
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: if I say like that's not that's actually that's not
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: how I identify my sexual orientation, it doesn't matter. And
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: so that that's that that happened within a middlesecond at
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: like the first introduction to someone you know, and so
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: it's that's sort of like your community level introduction that
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: you're trying to build communities. There can be you know,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: there might be some some sticky situations with that, um
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: for people who might already have this negative image or
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: negative perception of bisexuality. UM and in the workplace because
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: people don't people don't talk about by anything right, So
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: like you think like LGBT community, but people forget to
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: like to be actually stands for something if you're at
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: an accepting workplace. UM, I still think coming out is
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: by like that's sort of a second coming coming out
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: that you have to do. I have to come out
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: longness to say like, hey, I'm not straight, and then
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: everyone's like, okay, you're a lesbian or you're gay, and
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: then you have to come up come out again and
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: say I'm not either those either by um and then
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: there's either going to be like blank stares or like
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: internal gas or for me, it's not just like okay,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: I don't fit in with this community. That sucks. I
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: feel lonely. UM Like that's one thing, and loneliness conferred
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: depression and a lot of mental health outcomes. But when
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: you're looking specifically at bisexual people compared to non bisexual
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: queer quote unquote, I think BY people, the lesbian, um,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: gay um, just other non by people. They're like our
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: distinct health securities. Like bisexual people are have higher rates
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: of over bi sexual women have higher rates of ovarian cancer.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: And it's purely because doctors are hearing the sexual orientation
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: and not giving certain tests. So if I'm a by,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: I'm a biased to women. And if I'm in a
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: relationship with another um with a person who has a uterus, uh,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: and I tell my doctor that I'm in a relationship
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: with someone who has a uterus, and that's what my
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: sex life is for. Doctors will not give certain tests
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: that they do with women who are in relationships with
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: people at penises, and because of that is higher rate
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: of obarian cancer, which I think is absolutely ridiculous, Like
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: there's no way that my sexual orientation should have any
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: correlition to hire rates of cancers because I'm not getting
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: checks for things. Yeah, and that's just like some of
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: the physical health things. Anytime you're you're adding more minority
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: identity is just like the level of trauma is like exponential,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm a black bisexual woman. UM like this woman. UM,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: but still like, so I'm you know, I experienced my phobia,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: I experience racism, I experienced sexism, and I experienced the
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: intersection of all of those. He's just being really really hard,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, because it's like you look at all
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: of the statistics, tum of the research on the impact
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: of racism and the specifically own black people and everything
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: out there says that there's so I mean, yeah, there's
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of research that it's looking at, um sort
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: of help promote of behaviors and resiliency. But if you're
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: looking at the resources, there's like some of the negative
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: impact in terms of like physical healthy, looking at high
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: blood pressure, looking at diabetes, looking at sort of like
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: this generational transmission of trauma. And then you add to
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: that the sexual orientation and general identity peace from top
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: to that, and you just you have these really complex
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: and layered systems of oppression. UM. And it's it's it's
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: surprising that people, I mean, I talked about I'll talk
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: about this was my partner all the time. My partner
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: identifies division or is non binary, So we get a
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: lot of bisexual, non binary conversations and a lot of
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: times we're just like, how do we get up in
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: the boarding? I don't know, but we have to, so
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: we do it. I have personally encountered a lot of
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: misconceptions and bias around bisexuality, and I made a quick
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: list of just ones that I thought of off the
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: top of my head. The first one it doesn't exist, uh,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: the second one it's a phase. And then also like
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: you can't make up your mind. You're greedy, you're trader,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: you're oppressed, homosexual, your insert mental health problem here, You're
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: overly sexual, always want sex, are aggressive, are promiscuous, less loyal,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: less monogamous, And these misconceptions have a huge impact individual
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: too systemic. We asked our interviewees about all of these
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: misconceptions and about biphobia and bi racier so bim and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: internally by negatively are really really similar. One is just
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: sort of like an external and one is an internal.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: So bi phobia would be all of the um negative interaction, uh,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: verified stigma that by people experienced from the non by people.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: UM So if I go out of community and say like, hey,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: I'm by it. I have this partner and someone says, oh,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: your partner is magically beginning You're not allowed in this
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: um in our like pride celebration because we only want
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: gay people here. Like that's an example of how I
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: would experience by phobia and then interialized by negativity. Is
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: what happens when people sort of take all of that
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: negativity and they turn it in on themselves. And so
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: that would be me wondering like if I'm buying enough,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: or um, maybe I am what these people say by
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: people are Maybe I am just sort of like untrustworthy
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: and sort of like questioning my phone models because the
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: voices of everyone else has kind of gotten a lot
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: of the stigma. Therapists are one that by people are untrustworthy,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: they're shady. Um, they're always gonna leave you for like
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: the quote unquote other so like the other gender expression
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: or the other steps, they're always going to just leave
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: you for the other. Um, so you can't trust them anyway. Um.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: And there's also this really I just think disgusting sort
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: of stereotypes that I personally have heard and been told
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: in my life that by people, because there's multiple attractions,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: that by people are the ones who are spreading HIV
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: and AIDS among queer communities. We're not We're not talking
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: about like how queer people don't really have a lot
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: of conversations about safe for sex anyway. We're not talking
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: about any of that. We're just looking for a spacegoat.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: You see, you know this age crisis, and you see
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: like physical health disparities and queer communities, and you're not attracted.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: You're not attributing it to all of the issues that
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: we have in terms of just health care in this country.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: You want a scapegoat, and I can I understand that,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: because it's something that's really horrible that's happening, and everyone
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: wants to attach it to someone else, So you want
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: a scapegoat. But I don't think you know pep who
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: are also in that shuggle, who are experiencing all of
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: those being health disparities, who are in the thick of it.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that we need to be the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: escape to. And bisexuality is very stigmatized in many ways,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: often in the lesbian and gay community. Sometimes bisexual people
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: are thought of as not having the courage to come
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: out of the closet all the way, or we're on
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: we're on the way to coming out, or confused and
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: many lesbian and gay people don't want to date us
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: or don't want to engage with us because there's this
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: thought that we're just experimenting and don't really know what
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: we want. And then in the straight community, I think
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: we're often perceived as just being floody and once again
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: just experimenting. And I have been bisexual and aware of
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: it and out about it for twenty years. I'm not experimenting.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: I know who I am, and I really am attracted
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: to people of multiple genders UM, and I think it's
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: really useful for me as an attorney. I feel a
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: strong identification with the word bisexual because, as I said,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: that has legal and political meaning, and so when we're
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: trying to include other classes of people in for example, UM,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: much of the federal court litigation about same sex marriages
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: UM sometimes speaks about the possibility only of people being
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: in same sex couples or UM. It frames the debate
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: about issues such a same sex marriage around only having
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: the option to marry people who are seeing sex UM
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: as opposed to being bisexual and just choosing that. You know,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: this is the person I love and I want to
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not under duress because I could potentially be married
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: to a man, but I would rather marry a woman
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: as a bisexual woman perhaps, um So, I think sometimes
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: in a lot of that debate, bisexuality is left out,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: and it's important for the legal continuity to be able
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: to use the word that is going to continue on
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: and I'm learned about, you know, creating new words and
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: identities over time, which I think may work socially and culturally,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: but in terms of legal activism, I feel like it's
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: important to hang on to that stigmatized bisexual label and
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: re embrace it. I think it's important that in these
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: kinds of situations we recognize that having been in different
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: sex relationships does not mean that you are not legitimately
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: a queer person, that you're not legitimately a bisexual person
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: if that's how you identify yourself, and that those people
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: can face just as much stigma. There's a massive rate
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: of homelessness, um and oppression among bisexual people, particularly young
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: bisexual people, and it's the largest proportion of the LGBTQ community,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: and yet sometimes the least heard of. We sometimes call
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: that bio rature because um many people feel like they
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: don't have the right to fully claim the mantle of
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: being an lgbt Q person, UM, and yet we often
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: face a lot of stigma and both the gay musbian
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: world as well as in um, the straight world. And
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: so I think it's really important for us to band together.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: And I feel particularly passionate about sharing my pride as
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: a bisexual person because it took me a long time
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: to get there, and I know that for a lot
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: of people they still feel really stigmatized. I've already shared
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: this statistic about how they're more bisexual people than lesbians
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: and game that put together, Now that is shocking for
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. UM. But there's this there's this
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: other thing that that also surprising, UM, which is the
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: percentage of bisexual people who are coupled, you know, who
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: are in relationships, who are in the gender relationships. And
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: if you're bisexual and you know you could have a
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: relationship with somebody of any gender, then then you're just
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: more likely, like statistically, to end up in a relationship
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: with somebody of another gender. It's just you know, so
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: so it's not even necessarily like that people are trying
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: to positive Okay, I'm not going to keep you interestents,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you the ins that eighty four per cent
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: of coupled bisexual people are in mixed gender relationship. I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: think that's that's you know, when people think about bisexual people,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: when people think about any sexual minority, but even by
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: sexual people, they're thinking about people who are connected with
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: bisexual community, who are probably in the same gender relationship,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: like they've got a certain view of it. So there
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: are like the vast majority of bisexual people are in
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: mixed gender relationships and and so people might not recognize
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: them as being a sexual minority person, let alone bisexual.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: So that's really important I think for people to understand
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: who are like organizers and service providers that if you
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: are only like reaching out to people through LGBT networks
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: and you know, um uh, same sex, coupled kinds of things,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: then you are missing most bisexual people. So I'm always
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: saying to people, if you want to reach bisexual people,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: like for our Bisexual Discussion group, we just advertise in
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: the local paper, like in an online on on like
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: calendar events. But I also recommend that people like reach
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: out through parenting groups and stuff, because bisexual people are
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: more likely to be parents than lesbians and gay men are,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: so um so just when we think about how do
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: we reach bisexual people. And also I just want to
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: make sure that all those people who all those bisexual
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: people who are in mixed general relationships, Like if you're
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: listening to this, I want you to feel seen and
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: known because you might feel really isolated. And we want
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: to say to anyone listening who does feel isolated, you
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: are not alone. Um. And that is some advice, but
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: we will have more because as we said, this is
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: just part one, right, yes, stay tuned for part two,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: where we dive more into by ratire and by negativity,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: personal experiences and Hikui who's bisexual Hiku also known as
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: bik I love this so much too and resources. In
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: the meantime, we would love to hear from you listeners.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media, Mom Stuff at
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: i heeart media dot com. You can find us on
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You and on Twitter
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: at Mom Stuff Podcast. Thank you, thank you, Thank you
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: to all of our interviewees. You'll hear again, Yes you will.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrew,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Thank you all. Stuff
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: I've Never Told You's a protection of I heartradias How
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio as the iHeartRadio app,
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