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Bengals Booth Podcast: Goin' Back To Indiana · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hi again everybody.
0:04
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth Podcast.
0:08
Speaker 2: The I'm going back to Indiana. Addition, as we head
0:14
Speaker 2: to the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Coming up, you'll
0:18
Speaker 2: hear from Greg Cosel from NFL Films, Notre Dame Safety,
0:22
Speaker 2: Xavier Watts, a possible Bengals target, and NFL Network draft
0:27
Speaker 2: Guru Lance zero Line. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought
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0:49
Speaker 1: Of the Bengals.
0:50
Speaker 2: Now here's a quick reminder that you can have the
0:53
Speaker 2: latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet,
0:57
Speaker 2: or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's
1:01
Speaker 2: the greatest thing since unclaimed funds. My wife recently encouraged
1:08
Speaker 2: me to see if I have any unclaimed funds in
1:11
Speaker 2: the various places where we've lived. It doesn't cost anything.
1:15
Speaker 2: Just search for unclaimed funds, and the name of a
1:19
Speaker 2: state where you've lived or worked. You'll fill out some
1:23
Speaker 2: information on a website and we'll find out pretty quickly
1:27
Speaker 2: if there are any unclaimed funds under your name. If
1:31
Speaker 2: there are, you'll have to fill out some paperwork in
1:34
Speaker 2: order to receive the money. Sure enough, I don't know
1:37
Speaker 2: whether it was because of a change of address or
1:39
Speaker 2: an oversight by a former employer, but Peg and I
1:43
Speaker 2: both have some cold, hard cash coming our way. It's
1:47
Speaker 2: not a huge amount, but hey, it's found money, so
1:51
Speaker 2: give it a shot. Hopefully your luck will be even
1:54
Speaker 2: better than ours. Now, let's get to my first guest.
2:00
Speaker 2: It's NFL Combine Week in Indianapolis, giving me the opportunity
2:03
Speaker 2: to talk to some of my favorite NFL analysts and
2:06
Speaker 2: draft gurus, as well as some of the players that
2:09
Speaker 2: the Bengals might be.
2:10
Speaker 1: Targeting in this year's draft.
2:13
Speaker 2: First, a favorite guest on this podcast who is uniquely
2:17
Speaker 2: capable of discussing the state of the Bengals as well
2:20
Speaker 2: as some of the draft prospects who could eventually wind
2:24
Speaker 2: up in Orange and black. One of my favorite things
2:28
Speaker 2: about coming to the Combine every year is the opportunity
2:30
Speaker 2: to visit with a great Greg co cell. Duke Tobin
2:33
Speaker 2: held a news conference on Tuesday where he referred to
2:35
Speaker 2: the Bengals as quote, a championship caliber team, despite the
2:41
Speaker 2: fact that the Bengals have missed the playoffs the last
2:42
Speaker 2: couple of years. Do you agree with Duke Tobin?
2:47
Speaker 3: Well, I think the reason you say that is because
2:49
Speaker 3: they have one of the three or four best quarterbacks
2:51
Speaker 3: in the league, and they've obviously got a wide receiving
2:53
Speaker 3: corps that is high level. They've got Jamar Chase, who's,
2:57
Speaker 3: depending on one's point of view, we are the first
2:59
Speaker 3: or second best receiver in football. So I think that
3:01
Speaker 3: that's kind of where it starts. And Burrow is so
3:05
Speaker 3: so good. The guy plays the position like a computer
3:08
Speaker 3: chip that you know, you just you watch him and
3:10
Speaker 3: you just feel like, God, this team's a really good team.
3:13
Speaker 3: But you know, as you know, Dan, I think there's
3:16
Speaker 3: a lot of questions as we sit here at the combine,
3:18
Speaker 3: and it's very early in the process, so we don't
3:20
Speaker 3: know the answers to these questions, but there are legitimate
3:23
Speaker 3: questions that.
3:24
Speaker 4: In my view, don't put them in the category.
3:27
Speaker 3: As we sit here, you know, late in February, as
3:31
Speaker 3: they're a championship team.
3:33
Speaker 4: I think there's too many questions right now.
3:35
Speaker 2: They've missed the playoffs because their defense wasn't good enough.
3:38
Speaker 2: They were one of the top scoring teams in the league.
3:41
Speaker 2: You assume that will continue to be the case as
3:43
Speaker 2: long as Joe Burrow is in Cincinnati and healthy. What
3:46
Speaker 2: stood out to you about their deficiencies on defense when
3:49
Speaker 2: you watch the Bengals last year.
3:53
Speaker 4: I think there's a number of them.
3:55
Speaker 3: I mean I think that, you know, I love Trey Hendrickson,
3:58
Speaker 3: and I know he's under contract for another year. You know,
4:01
Speaker 3: he's grossly underpaid. We'll see how all that plays out.
4:05
Speaker 3: But he's a really good pass rusher. He lived the
4:08
Speaker 3: league in sacks, did he not. Yeah, he's really good,
4:11
Speaker 3: you know. I think that On the other side, that's
4:13
Speaker 3: an open question. And with what they're probably going to
4:17
Speaker 3: line up with at de tackle right now, younger players
4:20
Speaker 3: who are not true pass rushers, so they need another
4:23
Speaker 3: pass rusher, and I think that's important right now. The
4:28
Speaker 3: other thing that I think two other things I thought
4:31
Speaker 3: really hurt.
4:31
Speaker 4: Them last year.
4:33
Speaker 3: In previous years, I thought that Wilson and Pratt were
4:36
Speaker 3: really good duo at linebacker. We know Wilson got hurt,
4:40
Speaker 3: but I don't think he played to the same level
4:42
Speaker 3: before the injury. And I don't think Pratt played to
4:45
Speaker 3: the same level last year at all. And I had
4:48
Speaker 3: always been a Pratt guy based on tape, but it
4:51
Speaker 3: just wasn't there. And then the second part of that
4:53
Speaker 3: equation was the secondary. The secondary was problematic.
4:57
Speaker 4: We know that, we don't have to guess that because they.
5:00
Speaker 3: Ben Taylor Bread two or three times, So that told
5:03
Speaker 3: you right there. So they ended up playing the rookie
5:06
Speaker 3: Newton from TCU, who, by the way, I really liked
5:09
Speaker 3: his college tape and I thought he played well down
5:12
Speaker 3: the stretch when he played. But clearly the secondary was
5:15
Speaker 3: a little bit of a revolving door and it was
5:18
Speaker 3: an issue. And unfortunately Hill got hurt. He made the
5:21
Speaker 3: transition to corner, and I loved him as a potential
5:25
Speaker 3: corner coming out of Michigan. You and I talked last
5:28
Speaker 3: year that at safety, maybe he didn't see the game
5:31
Speaker 3: as quickly as he had to. But he has major
5:34
Speaker 3: corner traits and he played really well until he got hurt.
5:38
Speaker 3: So that's a question. Now does he stay on the outside.
5:41
Speaker 3: He has slot experience from his college days at Michigan.
5:44
Speaker 3: With Mike Hilton being a free agent, do they move
5:47
Speaker 3: him in the slot and try to figure out, you know,
5:50
Speaker 3: amongst two or three other guys, the Newtons, the tailor, Bread's,
5:53
Speaker 3: the DJ Turner, who is the second round pick? Did
5:56
Speaker 3: they try to figure that out? You know, these are
5:58
Speaker 3: questions as we sit here in late February.
6:01
Speaker 4: They have to figure out too.
6:03
Speaker 3: That's what the OTAs and the mini camps and training
6:05
Speaker 3: camps are for. And again with the draft coming up
6:08
Speaker 3: in free agency, they'll probably some other players in the mix.
6:12
Speaker 1: We're visiting with Greg Cosell.
6:14
Speaker 2: You put together awesome draft scouting reports on these guys.
6:19
Speaker 2: I know you've been grinding the tape. From the draft
6:21
Speaker 2: gurus that I've talked to here in Indianapolis, there seems
6:24
Speaker 2: to be a consensus that it's a good year to
6:27
Speaker 2: draft a defensive lineman. The Bengals have a need. Okay,
6:31
Speaker 2: so let's start there. Defensive tackle is an area where
6:34
Speaker 2: the Bengals can find somebody.
6:35
Speaker 3: And it's funny you say that because look, they drafted
6:38
Speaker 3: Chris Jenkins, they drafted McKinley Jackson, two players who I
6:41
Speaker 3: like on tape, but I wouldn't call either one a
6:43
Speaker 3: pass rusher in a strict sense. Now again, you don't
6:46
Speaker 3: need two dtackles who were great pass rushers. But I
6:50
Speaker 3: think as we saw and again, very often teams look
6:54
Speaker 3: at Super Bowl type teams or teams that get there
6:57
Speaker 3: and think that, hey, you know, maybe this is a
6:59
Speaker 3: month look at what.
7:01
Speaker 4: The Eagles did.
7:01
Speaker 3: I mean, we know Jalen Carter is, he's a great player,
7:05
Speaker 3: but Milton Williams opposite Jalen Carter, he got a lot of.
7:08
Speaker 4: One on ones and he won them.
7:10
Speaker 3: See it's easy to say, oh, well, you know Jalen
7:11
Speaker 3: Carter's on the other side, but you still got to
7:13
Speaker 3: win the one on ones. And Milton Williams, who, by
7:16
Speaker 3: the way, is a free agent, and you know again
7:18
Speaker 3: he could get twenty one to twenty two million dollars
7:20
Speaker 3: a year. He could be in high demand. I'm not
7:22
Speaker 3: saying the Bengals are going to look to him. Who knows,
7:24
Speaker 3: but he can rush the quarterback. But this is a
7:27
Speaker 3: really good detackle draft. They come in all shapes and sizes,
7:31
Speaker 3: as they often do, so I personally think they have
7:35
Speaker 3: to think in terms of a pass rusher, not a
7:38
Speaker 3: run defender. I think Both Jenkins and McKinley Jackson are
7:43
Speaker 3: solid interior run defenders and can be good at that,
7:46
Speaker 3: But I think that they need to find a guy
7:49
Speaker 3: that they believe can become a sub front pass rusher
7:52
Speaker 3: on the inside.
7:53
Speaker 2: From the guys you've studied who fits that description Among
7:55
Speaker 2: the defensive tackles.
7:57
Speaker 3: Well, depending on where you want to draft. My favorite detail,
8:00
Speaker 3: and I've done a good number of them. I love
8:02
Speaker 3: the Walter Nolan kid from All miss You know the
8:05
Speaker 3: way I think about you and how I do this. Obviously,
8:08
Speaker 3: you have to look at a player's traits and attributes
8:10
Speaker 3: when you evaluate a college player, But then I think
8:12
Speaker 3: about the NFL because that's ultimately.
8:14
Speaker 4: What we're doing.
8:15
Speaker 3: Then we're trying to project and transition guys to play
8:17
Speaker 3: at the next level, not how they play on Saturday,
8:20
Speaker 3: how they play on Sunday. And I really can't find
8:25
Speaker 3: any higher level D tackles in the NFL that don't
8:28
Speaker 3: have a strong power element to their game. And Mason
8:33
Speaker 3: Graham is a fun, fun watch. Okay, he's a lot
8:36
Speaker 3: of fun, but he doesn't have a big power element
8:40
Speaker 3: to his game. So again, that doesn't mean in three
8:43
Speaker 3: years he won't, you know, you never know that stuff.
8:46
Speaker 3: And I hear he's a great kid, and you know,
8:48
Speaker 3: but Nolan right now, I mean he has shades of
8:51
Speaker 3: Jalen Carter in him when you watch his tape in
8:53
Speaker 3: the SEC he moves people. Then there's a kid, and
8:56
Speaker 3: again it depends where you want to draft. There's a
8:58
Speaker 3: kid from South Carolina who I like, TJ. Sanders. He's
9:01
Speaker 3: a little more athletic, which is why you wouldn't think
9:03
Speaker 3: of him as a first round type player, but he
9:06
Speaker 3: can rush the quarterback and you know. So there's guys
9:09
Speaker 3: like that, and I know I'm missing names because I've
9:12
Speaker 3: seen so many, and I feel like, you know, my
9:15
Speaker 3: head's in a swirl here because that's all I've been doing,
9:18
Speaker 3: is grinding through watching players. But they come in all
9:21
Speaker 3: shapes and sizes in this draft, and you can I
9:25
Speaker 3: had someone I respect greatly who's done this for years
9:27
Speaker 3: and years tell me that he wouldn't be surprised if
9:29
Speaker 3: twenty defensive tackles won in the first three rounds.
9:31
Speaker 4: So it's a big d tackle draft.
9:34
Speaker 2: The Bengals have the seventeenth pick. My suspicion is if
9:38
Speaker 2: they had a defensive tackle that they felt was worthy
9:41
Speaker 2: of that selection, that would probably be their inclination. But
9:46
Speaker 2: they need pass rushers too. As you mentioned, how is
9:48
Speaker 2: that in this draft?
9:49
Speaker 3: It's pretty good and I have a feeling, Look, this
9:52
Speaker 3: is an odd draft because it's not a quarterback draft
9:54
Speaker 3: and it's not a.
9:55
Speaker 4: Wide receiver draft.
9:56
Speaker 3: So what I've spoken to people who tell me in
10:00
Speaker 3: a normal year there's fifteen to eighteen players with first
10:03
Speaker 3: round grades.
10:03
Speaker 4: This year I'm hearing there's ten. But the point is
10:06
Speaker 4: you have to draft.
10:07
Speaker 3: You know, there's thirty two teams that have to draft
10:08
Speaker 3: in the first round, so you have to draft. So
10:12
Speaker 3: you know, there are players like Nick Gourton from A
10:16
Speaker 3: and M, who actually led the Big Ten in sacks
10:20
Speaker 3: last year at Purdue and then transfer to A and M.
10:22
Speaker 4: He's an interesting player. He's like six four, two eighty.
10:25
Speaker 3: I mean, my guess is he's in that range of
10:29
Speaker 3: seventeen and he shows flashes where he could be a
10:32
Speaker 3: quality edge pass rusher. Then there's a lot of guys
10:35
Speaker 3: who are like his teammate at A and M is
10:38
Speaker 3: a kid named Shamir Stewart. You've probably heard of that name.
10:41
Speaker 3: He's a freak, but he doesn't know how to rush
10:44
Speaker 3: the quarterback. But he's six five, two eighty one, and
10:46
Speaker 3: when you put on his tape and watch him run
10:48
Speaker 3: people down, you think you're watching his safety.
10:51
Speaker 4: And his arms are like thirty.
10:52
Speaker 3: Five and a half, and you know that means something
10:54
Speaker 3: in the scouting business. So I mean, is he going
10:58
Speaker 3: to be there at seventeen. I certainly don't know that.
11:00
Speaker 3: No one knows that, but there are there are going
11:02
Speaker 3: to be players to take at seventeen, either a d
11:05
Speaker 3: tackle or at d end. It just depends on who
11:08
Speaker 3: you like and what flavor you like.
11:10
Speaker 2: It's not a wide receiver draft, as you mentioned. Is
11:13
Speaker 2: it a tight end draft?
11:15
Speaker 4: Yes.
11:17
Speaker 3: I think there's four that are really to me high,
11:23
Speaker 3: high level intriguing, and then there's fifteen that are going
11:26
Speaker 3: to play in the league for sure. And I think
11:29
Speaker 3: the four are Loveland from Michigan, who's not going to
11:31
Speaker 3: work out here. In fact, I saw him speaking. He's
11:33
Speaker 3: his left arms and his slaying. He's almost like a
11:37
Speaker 3: wide receiver type. There's Tyler Warren, who I did last
11:44
Speaker 3: summer as well, and I love that kid.
11:47
Speaker 4: I think he's the best all around tight en. He's
11:49
Speaker 4: not going to be there at seventeen, not this draft.
11:52
Speaker 3: And then you have Mason Taylor from LSU, who's Jason
11:57
Speaker 3: Taylor's son, really intriguing player and the kid who to
12:02
Speaker 3: me is totally ascending, and it would it wouldn't surprise
12:06
Speaker 3: me if in two, three, four years we're talking about
12:10
Speaker 3: him among the best in the league. As the kid
12:11
Speaker 3: from Miami Arroyo, Elijah Royo. That kid is a freakish athlete.
12:17
Speaker 3: And he's not a terrible blocker, but he's a freakish athlete.
12:20
Speaker 3: And I saw him speaking today. He looks the part too.
12:25
Speaker 3: I mean you just see the body type, you know.
12:27
Speaker 3: So then there's like I said, there's probably.
12:31
Speaker 4: Fifteen guys they're going to play in the league.
12:33
Speaker 3: I don't know if they're quote unquote number one tight ends,
12:37
Speaker 3: but they're gonna play in the league.
12:39
Speaker 2: The Bengals drafted Eric All last year out of Iowa.
12:43
Speaker 2: He was tremendous. Unfortunately he re injured his knee. It's
12:47
Speaker 2: significant enough that he's going to miss this entire season.
12:51
Speaker 2: But did you see enough of him from his time
12:54
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati to thank boy, if this guy could stay healthy,
12:57
Speaker 2: they've got something.
12:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was the Michigan, Iowa kid who's kind of
13:01
Speaker 3: fell under the radar a bit because you know, he
13:03
Speaker 3: didn't catch a ton in Michigan, didn't catch a ton
13:06
Speaker 3: at Iowa because they have multiple tight ends who are
13:08
Speaker 3: obviously very good, and they don't have a great passing game,
13:10
Speaker 3: as you know at Iowa, you know, you being in
13:12
Speaker 3: Big ten country. So I'm really I thought all it
13:17
Speaker 3: was a really all choose me, not all at all.
13:20
Speaker 3: Was an intriguing guy. And it's a shame. I didn't
13:22
Speaker 3: know until you just told me that he's going to
13:24
Speaker 3: miss the season. So now you wonder, you know, does
13:27
Speaker 3: he ever really play at that at a level at
13:29
Speaker 3: which he could play. So, yeah, they're gonna need a
13:33
Speaker 3: tight end. So and like I said, you can get
13:35
Speaker 3: a tight end in this draft. Now it comes down
13:37
Speaker 3: to do you want one early because you think that
13:40
Speaker 3: that guy's going to be that guy that kind of
13:43
Speaker 3: tight end which they really haven't had in recent years,
13:46
Speaker 3: or you know, do you take one who's just a
13:49
Speaker 3: really solid player but not necessarily one of those guys
13:54
Speaker 3: that becomes an organizational decision.
13:56
Speaker 2: We're visiting with Greg Cosell. I want to circle back
13:58
Speaker 2: to Trey Hendrickson. As you mentioned, he did lead the
14:01
Speaker 2: NFL in sacks this year with seventeen and a half,
14:03
Speaker 2: second year in a row he's had seventeen and a half.
14:06
Speaker 2: Is he strictly one of the best pass rushers in
14:09
Speaker 2: the NFL? Or do you consider him to be one
14:13
Speaker 2: of the top defensive ends all around?
14:18
Speaker 3: I mean I would lean toward the latter part there.
14:21
Speaker 3: I mean, is he the best run defender we've seen? No,
14:24
Speaker 3: but I don't think that's a weakness in his game.
14:27
Speaker 3: But he's a really good pass you know. And it's
14:29
Speaker 3: funny I spoke about power with d tackles, it's true
14:33
Speaker 3: with d ns as well. I'm fortunate that I've been
14:36
Speaker 3: able to go to the O Line Masterminds event, which
14:39
Speaker 3: is in Frisco, Texas, every year in July, and Duke
14:43
Speaker 3: Mannywether does a great job and he brings in prison
14:48
Speaker 3: O Lineman brings in Hall of Fame O Lineman. And
14:52
Speaker 3: I had an unbelievably great conversation two years ago with
14:55
Speaker 3: Andrew Whitworth, who you obviously know well, and you know,
15:00
Speaker 3: he said something that just totally resonated because you know,
15:02
Speaker 3: I don't fancy myself an offensive line guru, you know, certainly,
15:06
Speaker 3: Andrew Whitworth.
15:06
Speaker 4: Knows a little more about playing offensive line than I do.
15:09
Speaker 4: And he said to me, it's all about power.
15:12
Speaker 3: He said, all these guys that want to dance and
15:14
Speaker 3: try to run around me, I can deal with that
15:17
Speaker 3: all day long, because at some point they got to
15:19
Speaker 3: get through me.
15:20
Speaker 4: He says, I'm there. If they want to dance, more
15:23
Speaker 4: power to him.
15:25
Speaker 3: And I think what is so impressive about Hendrickson bringing
15:29
Speaker 3: it back to him is he can win by just
15:31
Speaker 3: going right through the chest to people. And at the
15:34
Speaker 3: end of the day, if you don't have a power
15:36
Speaker 3: element as a pass rusher in this league, it's really hard.
15:40
Speaker 4: To be concident.
15:41
Speaker 3: I mean, you're dealing with the guy that's, you know,
15:43
Speaker 3: had seventeen plus sacks two years in a row. Even
15:46
Speaker 3: before that, he put up good sack numbers. I mean,
15:49
Speaker 3: he's got a strong power element to his game.
15:52
Speaker 1: And one thing he does not do is dance.
15:54
Speaker 4: No, he does not do that. He does not do that.
16:00
Speaker 2: The Bengals new defensive coordinator, he's been at Notre Dame
16:03
Speaker 2: for the last three years, has plenty of NFL experience,
16:06
Speaker 2: including being the Bengals linebackers coach when they went to
16:08
Speaker 2: the Super Bowl in the twenty twenty one season. As
16:11
Speaker 2: you have studied college tape, Notre Dame players, teams that
16:15
Speaker 2: have played against Notre Dame, anything stand out to you
16:19
Speaker 2: about those great defenses he had at Notre Dame.
16:21
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny you just mentioned Al Golden because
16:23
Speaker 3: something just popped into my head about a de tackle
16:26
Speaker 3: who's going to be coming off an injury who played
16:28
Speaker 3: at Notre Dame. But I loved his tape, and that's
16:30
Speaker 3: Riley Mills, and obviously Al Golden knows him really well.
16:35
Speaker 3: I really like that kid's tape. He's probably six six,
16:39
Speaker 3: two ninety. He's got pass rush traits. I mean he's not,
16:42
Speaker 3: you know, going to be the best interior pass rusher
16:46
Speaker 3: we've seen in the league, but he is big, he's long,
16:49
Speaker 3: he's got pass rush trades.
16:51
Speaker 4: I forget what his injury is, so I don't know
16:53
Speaker 4: if he's going.
16:53
Speaker 3: To be ready to play, you know, early, but it's
16:57
Speaker 3: probably going to impact his draft status.
17:00
Speaker 4: My guess is you could get.
17:01
Speaker 3: Him in the fourth or fifth round, sixth round maybe,
17:03
Speaker 3: whereas he probably in my mind, would have been a
17:06
Speaker 3: top ninety.
17:06
Speaker 4: Player for sure.
17:09
Speaker 3: So just when you mentioned Golden, he knows him really
17:11
Speaker 3: really well, you know.
17:13
Speaker 4: And the other.
17:14
Speaker 3: Question is, you know, who's gonna line who's gonna line
17:17
Speaker 3: up a safety.
17:18
Speaker 1: For So Jordan Battle is a lock. This will be
17:22
Speaker 1: his third NFL.
17:23
Speaker 4: Season him as a starting safety.
17:25
Speaker 2: Yes, really came on last year toward the end of
17:28
Speaker 2: the year after a good rookie.
17:29
Speaker 3: Year safety though, Yeah, I mean, because the other thing is,
17:34
Speaker 3: you got the Xavier Watts kid, who you know, Golden
17:37
Speaker 3: knows really well, who is a true multi dimensional player,
17:41
Speaker 3: and he's worthy of a top sixty pick in the draft.
17:46
Speaker 3: And you know, so obviously I'm not saying they're going
17:48
Speaker 3: to do that, you know, but Al Golden knows him well,
17:51
Speaker 3: and that's the kind of you know, look, I don't
17:54
Speaker 3: know what.
17:54
Speaker 4: Else gonna do. You know.
17:56
Speaker 3: Obviously, college and the NFL are totally different animals, and
17:59
Speaker 3: Al's been in the NFL, so he kind of knows that.
18:02
Speaker 3: But I mean, you're seeing a lot more split safety looks.
18:04
Speaker 3: You're seeing safeties that have to be far more multi dimensional.
18:07
Speaker 3: It's hard to live in this world now where a
18:10
Speaker 3: safety can only let's say, play in the box, which
18:12
Speaker 3: is the strength of Jordan Battle.
18:16
Speaker 4: So you know, I don't know, I don't know what
18:18
Speaker 4: they're going to do at the position.
18:19
Speaker 3: I don't know how Al's going to see it, but
18:21
Speaker 3: you know, Xavier Watts is a really intriguing player as well.
18:25
Speaker 1: Gino Stone is the other safety at least right.
18:27
Speaker 3: Now post safety. See see right now. This is just
18:31
Speaker 3: my sense from tape study. You know, again, this coaching
18:34
Speaker 3: staff will do their work and they're with those guys
18:36
Speaker 3: every day, but my sense of their safety position now
18:40
Speaker 3: is they've got a post safety in a box safety.
18:42
Speaker 4: And they're not really that interchangeable.
18:45
Speaker 3: And I think in today's NFL, I don't know if
18:48
Speaker 3: you can live in that world.
18:50
Speaker 2: Every week, I peppered Xavier Watts with a bunch of
18:54
Speaker 2: questions about possibly being reunited with Al Golden in Cincinnati.
18:58
Speaker 2: He would be a natural the Bengals second round pick
19:01
Speaker 2: forty nine. I don't know if he'll be there, but
19:04
Speaker 2: Xavier Watts is well aware of the fact that a
19:06
Speaker 2: lot of people have made that connection that it would
19:08
Speaker 2: be a natural.
19:09
Speaker 4: Yeah.
19:09
Speaker 3: And like I said, I mean I had a conversation
19:12
Speaker 3: you know, at the combine here this year with a
19:16
Speaker 3: dB coach. He actually focuses on safeties and that's one
19:19
Speaker 3: of the things you know that he talked about, is
19:22
Speaker 3: it's hard.
19:22
Speaker 4: To live in a world now where.
19:26
Speaker 3: Safeties are just in a sense one dimensional, and how
19:28
Speaker 3: they can play well. And again I'm not you know,
19:32
Speaker 3: I obviously did Jordan Battle coming out. I've seen him
19:36
Speaker 3: with Cincinnati. He's he's the kind of kid you want
19:40
Speaker 3: to play. I mean, he's smart, he's aware, he's savvy,
19:43
Speaker 3: but he just has a certain set of traits, you know.
19:47
Speaker 3: And and I'm not sure he's a back end player,
19:50
Speaker 3: and Gino Stone is a back end player, and so
19:53
Speaker 3: they're I think they're a little bit stuck in their
19:57
Speaker 3: ability to be multi dimensional on the back back in.
20:00
Speaker 4: So we'll see how they view that.
20:04
Speaker 3: And you know, if they view it seriously enough, they
20:07
Speaker 3: certainly could decide to take a safety in the second round.
20:10
Speaker 3: It's a pretty there's gonna be some interesting safeties in
20:13
Speaker 3: this draft.
20:15
Speaker 4: You know.
20:15
Speaker 3: Again, the kid who's probably the most fascinating is the
20:19
Speaker 3: South Carolina kid nick Him and Wari because he's six three,
20:22
Speaker 3: two twenty And I had a coach tell me that
20:24
Speaker 3: in his mind, he's exactly like Javon Holland, who's a
20:27
Speaker 3: really good player. So you know, again, it all depends,
20:31
Speaker 3: you know, We just don't know what Al's going to
20:34
Speaker 3: do at this point. You know, he's he's a value.
20:37
Speaker 3: You know what guys do. They start by evaluating their
20:39
Speaker 3: talent before they go to free agency in the draft.
20:42
Speaker 3: So I'm sure he's done all that already, but I
20:45
Speaker 3: don't know what he thinks.
20:47
Speaker 2: I'm pinballing around with Greg Cosel. I want to get
20:50
Speaker 2: your thoughts on Chase Brown. He shared the running back
20:53
Speaker 2: position for about the first half of the season until
20:56
Speaker 2: Zach Moss got hurt, and then over the final eight
20:58
Speaker 2: games that he played more than ninety combined rushing and
21:01
Speaker 2: receiving yards in every game he had double digit touchdowns.
21:05
Speaker 2: What do you think of Chase Brown and the element
21:07
Speaker 2: that he has added to Cincinnati's offense.
21:10
Speaker 3: I like Chase Brown, and I think, you know, it's funny.
21:13
Speaker 3: Every team is different and every situation is different. The
21:16
Speaker 3: way the Bengals run offense, given that they have one
21:19
Speaker 3: of the best quarterbacks in the game is and he
21:22
Speaker 3: did have many games where he had twenty plus carries,
21:24
Speaker 3: But they don't need a foundation back in the way
21:27
Speaker 3: that let's say Derek Henry's a foundation back or sae
21:29
Speaker 3: Quon Barkley is a foundation back.
21:31
Speaker 4: Yes.
21:32
Speaker 3: Are there games where it plays out where he's going
21:34
Speaker 3: to get twenty four carries? Yes, But the goal I imagine
21:38
Speaker 3: for their offenses not oh, we better get Chase Brown
21:41
Speaker 3: twenty four carries. But he's capable of that. I think
21:45
Speaker 3: he fits really well within their offense. I like him
21:48
Speaker 3: a lot in the context of that offense. He's a
21:51
Speaker 3: better receiver than people might have thought. So Yeah, I
21:55
Speaker 3: think he's works fine. I don't think there's an issue
21:59
Speaker 3: with running back at all.
22:00
Speaker 2: As you study quarterbacks going into the draft, has Joe
22:04
Speaker 2: Burrow become your measuring stick for processing?
22:10
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow is in many ways my measuring stick for
22:13
Speaker 3: what you have to be as a pocket quarterback. We
22:16
Speaker 3: know he can move, and obviously he moves better than
22:19
Speaker 3: anybody thought when he came out, and we know, you know,
22:22
Speaker 3: very often he's had to move because the old line
22:24
Speaker 3: hasn't been very good and he's shown tremendous ability. But
22:29
Speaker 3: would the the way the NFL game has evolved, and
22:33
Speaker 3: particularly the way defenses have evolved, it's very hard, in
22:38
Speaker 3: my view anyway, to be a pure pocket quarterback unless
22:43
Speaker 3: you can play it at a really, really high level.
22:46
Speaker 3: Pre snap and post snap and post snap. There's ten
22:49
Speaker 3: variables that go with the post snap part, and Burrow
22:53
Speaker 3: can do all that at the highest level. But it's
22:56
Speaker 3: hard to play the position like that. I mean, I
23:00
Speaker 3: think c. J. Stroud at is a guy that has
23:03
Speaker 3: shown he's capable of that. He had some ups and
23:05
Speaker 3: downs this year as he's continuing to learn how to
23:09
Speaker 3: play in the league. But it's really hard to just be,
23:14
Speaker 3: in his sense, a pocket quarterback in today's NFL unless.
23:17
Speaker 4: You are somewhat of a computer chip. And Burrow is.
23:22
Speaker 3: And I've had this conversation obviously for the last two
23:24
Speaker 3: days here at the combine regarding shudor Sanders. Obviously who
23:27
Speaker 3: the Bengals, I'm not, they don't care about that, but
23:31
Speaker 3: but you know, Burrow is the measuring stick for that
23:33
Speaker 3: kind of court. I mean, he's just and he makes
23:36
Speaker 3: it he makes it look easy. I mean, that's the
23:40
Speaker 3: thing that is amazing. And guys will tell you that
23:42
Speaker 3: that could be the highest guy. I remember talking years
23:45
Speaker 3: and years ago to Steve Young, who I've gotten to
23:47
Speaker 3: know very well over the years, and I mentioned to him,
23:50
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes you just make it.
23:51
Speaker 4: Look like it's easy.
23:52
Speaker 3: He said, That's the best compliment you could ever given me,
23:53
Speaker 3: because it's so.
23:54
Speaker 4: Hard, you know.
23:55
Speaker 3: I mean, and Burrow sometimes when he just drops back
23:59
Speaker 3: and throw that, it looks like he's just out in
24:01
Speaker 3: the park, like playing with kids, you know, but he's
24:05
Speaker 3: you know, there's not going to.
24:06
Speaker 4: Be twenty Joe Burrows that you know that.
24:08
Speaker 3: And and that's why I always am loathed to compare
24:12
Speaker 3: guys to you know, great great players. Sometimes you can
24:15
Speaker 3: make a stylistic comparison, you know, but a true comparison,
24:20
Speaker 3: like I've heard people say Shadorth Sanders, well he's like
24:22
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow, but he's not.
24:24
Speaker 4: I mean, I know what they mean, but he's not.
24:26
Speaker 1: They're both right handed, right exactly.
24:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they both play quarterback.
24:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you know.
24:32
Speaker 3: So yeah, Burrow is is is a really fun watch
24:36
Speaker 3: for me. I mean, I've evolved tremendously in my the
24:40
Speaker 3: way I evaluate quarterbacks because the game forces you to evolve,
24:43
Speaker 3: and you like, I like to think I can do that.
24:45
Speaker 3: But when I watch Burrow play, you know, and he
24:48
Speaker 3: had some games this year, I mean it just was
24:50
Speaker 3: they were ridiculous.
24:51
Speaker 4: Obviously he had to put up you know, what do you.
24:54
Speaker 3: Have four or five games this year, or they scored
24:56
Speaker 3: more than thirty three and they lost. You know, I mean,
24:59
Speaker 3: you know, but he just it's he's a joy for
25:03
Speaker 3: me to watch.
25:04
Speaker 1: You're so right about how hard it is.
25:07
Speaker 2: I have a little more leeway when I attend University
25:09
Speaker 2: of Cincinnati practices for where I can stand as opposed
25:12
Speaker 2: to a Bengals practice, So sometimes I'll stand right behind
25:15
Speaker 2: the offensive line.
25:16
Speaker 1: And honestly, other than a screen.
25:18
Speaker 2: Pass, I don't know how they do it with all
25:21
Speaker 2: of the traffic, the rush.
25:23
Speaker 1: It's incredible what quarterbacks are able to do.
25:25
Speaker 3: I'm blown away by it. And I'm even blown away
25:28
Speaker 3: by the guys who are shorter. We've kind of accepted
25:30
Speaker 3: in the league now that you can play if you're
25:31
Speaker 3: six feet six y one, although it's harder. And you know,
25:34
Speaker 3: the thing about Burrow, you and I were talking about
25:36
Speaker 3: this yesterday. Burrow, he doesn't necessarily look like a big
25:42
Speaker 3: guy on tape, Like you don't look at barn and
25:43
Speaker 3: Goo man, he's a big guy.
25:44
Speaker 4: Some you know, Josh Allen, Hey, there's a big guy,
25:47
Speaker 4: you know. But Burrow is a big guy. You know,
25:50
Speaker 4: he's not short. He's a big guy.
25:52
Speaker 3: And but you're right, I don't know how they how
25:55
Speaker 3: they do this, and particularly how fast they do it,
25:57
Speaker 3: you know. And one of the things, and I've had
26:01
Speaker 3: this conversation as well, but this is something I've thought
26:03
Speaker 3: about on my own, just watching college and going to
26:06
Speaker 3: some you know, certain kind of events over the years.
26:08
Speaker 3: A lot of quarterbacks now, most quarterbacks, the way they're
26:11
Speaker 3: brought up, beginning when they're ten, eleven, twelve years old,
26:14
Speaker 3: everything is pure progression. They really know very little about defenses,
26:19
Speaker 3: and you know, it's just harder to play that way.
26:22
Speaker 3: I mean Kurt Warner, who I know, well, he just
26:25
Speaker 3: is blown away by the fact that how can you
26:27
Speaker 3: not know about defense and play quarterback in the NFL,
26:31
Speaker 3: you know. And I'm in that school of thought. Obviously
26:34
Speaker 3: I've never dropped back, you know, but you know, you
26:37
Speaker 3: kind of have to know that stuff.
26:39
Speaker 2: Final thing for Greg Cosell, and I really appreciate your time.
26:42
Speaker 2: This is always a highlight in Indianapolis for me. The
26:45
Speaker 2: Bengals won their last five games last year to finish
26:47
Speaker 2: a game over five hundred. They needed some help on
26:50
Speaker 2: the final day of the season to make the playoffs.
26:52
Speaker 2: They didn't get it, as Denver beat Kansas City had
26:56
Speaker 2: they snuck in. Were you of the mind that they
26:59
Speaker 2: were going to be a real threat in the postseason?
27:03
Speaker 3: Well, they're going to score, so yes, The question is
27:08
Speaker 3: is you know where they're going to have to win?
27:10
Speaker 4: Thirty eight thirty five? That was going to be the question.
27:13
Speaker 3: And those kinds of games are hard, as you know,
27:15
Speaker 3: they're hard to play every week.
27:16
Speaker 4: I mean we just said that, you know, you know
27:18
Speaker 4: better than I.
27:18
Speaker 3: But I think it was four or five games where
27:20
Speaker 3: they lost by scoring over thirty three. So that becomes
27:23
Speaker 3: the question is that you know, can you win in
27:27
Speaker 3: the playoffs meaningfully? Thirty eight thirty five? History says normally no.
27:32
Speaker 3: But their offense is certainly fun to watch. And I'm
27:36
Speaker 3: not sure any defensive coordinator you know will tell you
27:39
Speaker 3: that they love to play against Burrow, you know, but
27:42
Speaker 3: because he's just he's so good. So I don't know,
27:45
Speaker 3: that's a hard question to answer. But they're they're one
27:48
Speaker 3: of my most fun offenses to watch.
27:51
Speaker 2: They're fun to broadcast, I can tell you that. And
27:54
Speaker 2: this is always so much fun for me. Or really
27:56
Speaker 2: appreciate your time. Look forward to a singing again sometime soon.
27:59
Speaker 4: Thanks, Dan, appreciate it.
28:01
Speaker 1: I don't think.
28:02
Speaker 2: There's anybody I enjoy talking football with more than Greg Cosell.
28:07
Speaker 2: One of this year's draft prospects that came up in
28:10
Speaker 2: our conversation was Notre Dame safety Xavier Watts. The twenty
28:15
Speaker 2: three year old who spent five years with a fighting
28:17
Speaker 2: Irish won the Nagirsky Award as the best defensive player
28:21
Speaker 2: in the country two years ago and was a consensus
28:24
Speaker 2: All American this season. So how important was he to
28:29
Speaker 2: l Golden's great defenses at Notre Dame?
28:32
Speaker 5: Very very important. He was an integral part of it.
28:35
Speaker 5: And obviously there's there's a comfort level when you're a
28:40
Speaker 5: play caller and you know that someone has the same heartbeat,
28:43
Speaker 5: someone understands exactly what you're looking for. So I'm excited
28:48
Speaker 5: for him and the opportunity that he has, you know,
28:51
Speaker 5: here moving forward.
28:52
Speaker 2: Watts spoke to reporters on Thursday and was asked about
28:55
Speaker 2: his relationship with the bengals new defensive coordinator.
28:59
Speaker 6: He's a very, very caring coach. So I mean, when
29:02
Speaker 6: guys get that type of care from a coach and
29:04
Speaker 6: when they put it in that much effort, you want
29:05
Speaker 6: to go out there and play for them.
29:07
Speaker 2: Watt certainly made plays for the Fighting Irish, intercepting thirteen
29:11
Speaker 2: passes over the last two years.
29:13
Speaker 6: To win the football game, you got to get the ball.
29:15
Speaker 6: I feel like coach Golden has done a great job
29:17
Speaker 6: of instilling that as me and as a team another name.
29:20
Speaker 6: So obviously when I'm out there, I'm always trying to
29:22
Speaker 6: get the ball.
29:23
Speaker 2: But interceptions is not at the top of the list
29:26
Speaker 2: of what Coach Golden is looking for in his safeties.
29:29
Speaker 5: Be Able to command your team, I think that's really important.
29:33
Speaker 5: You've got to be audible and demonstrative. You got to
29:35
Speaker 5: defend the deep ball really well, whether that's third half, quarter,
29:39
Speaker 5: whatever that case may be. And you've got to be
29:41
Speaker 5: a great tackle, especially in the alley. So there's more
29:44
Speaker 5: than that, but that's a good start, you know, if
29:46
Speaker 5: you could start there with those three. But anytime you
29:51
Speaker 5: want to have a great defense, you have to be
29:52
Speaker 5: great up the middle. From a communications standpoint standpoint, there's
29:56
Speaker 5: so much that makes up today's offenses. You know, the
29:59
Speaker 5: pre snap motions, the empty the empty quads, the jet motions,
30:05
Speaker 5: all of those things. And if you're not demonstrative, if
30:08
Speaker 5: you're not confident, and it's our job to get that
30:11
Speaker 5: from our guys.
30:12
Speaker 2: Most of the mock drafts I've looked at have Watts
30:15
Speaker 2: going in the second round, and Pro Football Focus calls
30:18
Speaker 2: him the ideal fit for Cincinnati. I asked Xavier if
30:23
Speaker 2: he's heard the scuttle but about a possible reunion with
30:26
Speaker 2: his college coach in Cincinnati.
30:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I've definitely seen some of the stuff.
30:31
Speaker 6: I try to stay away from it, but it's hard.
30:33
Speaker 6: While I'm always on my phone for the most part,
30:34
Speaker 6: and I'm getting taggs and mentioned in certain stuff. So
30:36
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know how that stuff works or
30:39
Speaker 6: what's gonna happen. By the end the day, I'm just
30:41
Speaker 6: do what I need to do and then we'll see
30:42
Speaker 6: what happens in the future.
30:43
Speaker 2: What said He did not have a formal interview scheduled
30:46
Speaker 2: with the Bengals at the Combine. But when you think
30:48
Speaker 2: about it, considering how well Al Golden already knows him,
30:52
Speaker 2: there really wasn't a need to use one of their
30:54
Speaker 2: forty five allotted interviews in Indianapolis with him. Here's a
30:59
Speaker 2: quick that The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you
31:02
Speaker 2: by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals Official HR
31:05
Speaker 2: software provider by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed
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Speaker 2: to elevate your home, business and community to a new level,
31:12
Speaker 2: and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.
31:16
Speaker 2: Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now,
31:21
Speaker 2: time to hear from one of the prominent draft gurus
31:24
Speaker 2: I caught up with at the Combine, the NFL Networks
31:28
Speaker 2: Lance zer Line Lance. The Bengals need defensive line help.
31:33
Speaker 2: How would you describe this draft for defensive linemen?
31:37
Speaker 7: Couldn't be better? Awesome, very deep.
31:39
Speaker 8: You'll be able to find starters day one, day two,
31:43
Speaker 8: and into day three, especially if you're looking for a
31:45
Speaker 8: defensive tackle. So this is one of the better I mean,
31:48
Speaker 8: the strength of this draft is edge rusher and defensive tackle.
31:51
Speaker 7: If you guys locked down Trey.
31:53
Speaker 8: Hendrickson, which I think is going to happen, I don't.
31:55
Speaker 8: You can't let a rusher leave. So if that happens,
31:58
Speaker 8: then you want to get better inside. This is a
32:00
Speaker 8: good draft to go get it inside as well. You
32:02
Speaker 8: got a couple talents of players. You have like three
32:05
Speaker 8: or four players in the first round defensive tackle wise
32:07
Speaker 8: that you could take a look at that would be
32:09
Speaker 8: high impact players, but it really doesn't stop there. It
32:12
Speaker 8: gets deep beyond that. So this is a really good draft.
32:14
Speaker 8: If you need defensive line help. If you need quarterback help,
32:17
Speaker 8: not a good draft. You need defensive line help, you're
32:19
Speaker 8: gonna be in a good shake.
32:20
Speaker 2: The Bengals do not need quarterback help, as you know.
32:22
Speaker 2: So let's talk about some of those defensive linemen. I
32:25
Speaker 2: assume Mason Graham will be long gone, but some of
32:27
Speaker 2: the other defensive tackles that we're hearing about and reading
32:31
Speaker 2: about include Walter Nolan from all Miss Tyleek Williams from
32:35
Speaker 2: Ohio State, Kenneth Grant from Michigan, Dereck Harmon from Oregon.
32:40
Speaker 2: Of those guys, who do you think is most likely
32:42
Speaker 2: to still be there at seventeen and who do you like?
32:46
Speaker 7: Well?
32:46
Speaker 8: I think what's gonna happen with Kenneth Grant is he's
32:49
Speaker 8: gonna have a big he's gonna test well, and you're
32:52
Speaker 8: gonna have a guy who's three hundred and forty pounds
32:54
Speaker 8: run about a four to eight five four nine two
32:57
Speaker 8: forty and he's gonna look good in drills, going to
33:00
Speaker 8: do all the testing well. So he's going to shoot up,
33:03
Speaker 8: and I think he probably isn't going to be there.
33:06
Speaker 7: Derek Harmon. Did you mention Derek Carmon. Yeah, I think
33:09
Speaker 7: Derek Carmon will be there now.
33:10
Speaker 8: He's more of just you know, he's more of a
33:12
Speaker 8: run stuffing guy who can help your rush as a
33:15
Speaker 8: swarm unit.
33:16
Speaker 7: He's not going to do a lot individually, but he
33:19
Speaker 7: should be there.
33:21
Speaker 8: Walter Nolan, if he's there, I mean, you got to
33:25
Speaker 8: vet why he's there, to find out.
33:26
Speaker 7: If there's a reason.
33:27
Speaker 8: You know, you will have done your work by then,
33:29
Speaker 8: so you're either comfortable with him or you're not. But
33:31
Speaker 8: if he's still there, I mean, to me, he's the
33:33
Speaker 8: most explosive defensive tackle on this draft. I don't think
33:36
Speaker 8: he'll be the first one. I think it will be
33:37
Speaker 8: Mason Graham.
33:38
Speaker 7: As you mentioned.
33:38
Speaker 8: If Walter Nolan's there, i'd run it up. Tyler Williams.
33:41
Speaker 8: I don't know that I draft him at first, but
33:42
Speaker 8: I like him a lot, so that would be one.
33:44
Speaker 8: If you were able to trade out of the first
33:46
Speaker 8: round or move up from your second round pick, which
33:49
Speaker 8: like forty nine I believe, and move up into the
33:52
Speaker 8: earlier stages of the second round, then you can take
33:54
Speaker 8: a look at Tyler Williams.
33:55
Speaker 1: But all I like all.
33:56
Speaker 8: Those guys for the Bengals, I think those are I
33:58
Speaker 8: think you're on it in terms of the players who
34:00
Speaker 8: they should be looking at in those two spots, William
34:04
Speaker 8: or in that spot at one, although like I said,
34:07
Speaker 8: I think William's the guy who's probably more of a
34:09
Speaker 8: second round player, even though I like.
34:10
Speaker 7: Him a lot.
34:11
Speaker 2: Lanzerline from NFL Network is our guest. Let's move to
34:14
Speaker 2: some of the edge guys. I assume that Jalen Walker
34:17
Speaker 2: won't be there. Here are some of the guys that
34:19
Speaker 2: have been projected to possibly be available at number seventeen.
34:22
Speaker 2: Mike Green from Marshall, Chamar Stewart from Texas A and
34:25
Speaker 2: m James Pierce from Tennessee, the Boston College kid whose
34:30
Speaker 2: last name I'm not going to try to pronounce. Of
34:32
Speaker 2: those guys, do you think that there's a good chance
34:35
Speaker 2: that they'll be there at seventeen?
34:36
Speaker 1: And what do you think?
34:37
Speaker 7: I think it's seventeen.
34:41
Speaker 8: Izeraku from Boston College will be there. It might be
34:45
Speaker 8: a little early for him, but once again, you always
34:47
Speaker 8: have to remember, you know, there's always a distinct possibility
34:50
Speaker 8: of trading back, adding a third round pick, adding a
34:53
Speaker 8: fourth round.
34:53
Speaker 7: Pick, to move back two spots, three spots, or move back.
34:56
Speaker 8: To me, the strength of this draft is really going
34:58
Speaker 8: to be more, you know, like twenty to forty five
35:01
Speaker 8: forty six, So moving back aggressively seven or eight spots,
35:06
Speaker 8: that allows you to still.
35:07
Speaker 7: Target an edge that you like, if that's what you
35:09
Speaker 7: want to do.
35:10
Speaker 8: At the same time, you know, well, what you want
35:12
Speaker 8: to do is you want to be in play for
35:14
Speaker 8: multiple positions. So if you move back into the twenty
35:17
Speaker 8: three through twenty six range, you got maybe one of
35:20
Speaker 8: those defensive tackles, maybe two of them still on the board,
35:23
Speaker 8: You've got three edge rushers. So to me, for the
35:26
Speaker 8: where the Bengals are, that might be a great position
35:28
Speaker 8: to move back pick up an extra third round pick.
35:30
Speaker 8: Is if you aggressively move back seven eight spots, the
35:33
Speaker 8: higher your compensation is third round pick, potentially second round pick,
35:36
Speaker 8: depending on you know, how far you move back.
35:39
Speaker 7: So I think that who are the other who are
35:42
Speaker 7: the edge rushers.
35:43
Speaker 2: That you mentioned, James Pierce, Yeah, Schamar, Stuart, Mike Green.
35:48
Speaker 7: So Stuart should be right around there. He's going to
35:51
Speaker 7: test great.
35:52
Speaker 8: Look great, Production's not great, but I think Mike Green
35:55
Speaker 8: has gone by then Stuart could be on the board.
35:58
Speaker 8: He's probably the best looking player in this draft. And
36:02
Speaker 8: from a you know, I remember when Carlos Dunlap was
36:04
Speaker 8: a was a Bengal. That's the kind of body type,
36:07
Speaker 8: you know, an impressive, long body type, but maybe even
36:09
Speaker 8: more muscular and imposing with more and more explosive as
36:13
Speaker 8: an athlete. But Dunlap is he's in that same kind
36:16
Speaker 8: of category. Pierce is one who I think will fall
36:20
Speaker 8: back a little bit. There's some there's some character stuff
36:23
Speaker 8: that that that teams have to be okay with from
36:25
Speaker 8: what I've been told from team sources. So I think
36:28
Speaker 8: that nineteen might be a little early for him, not
36:30
Speaker 8: necessarily talent wise, but where the league is going to
36:33
Speaker 8: value him. But you move back and maybe you're a
36:37
Speaker 8: little more comfortable.
36:38
Speaker 7: But then again, you know, there are some teams who say,
36:40
Speaker 7: if I'm wanting to take a guy at thirty, I
36:41
Speaker 7: got to be willing to take a guy at nineteen.
36:43
Speaker 7: There's no difference.
36:45
Speaker 1: Lanzerline is our guest.
36:46
Speaker 2: In your first mock draft, you had the Bengals taking
36:49
Speaker 2: a wide receiver Tetoroal McMillan from Arizona, the number one
36:53
Speaker 2: wide receiver on many people's board. I assume with that pick,
36:58
Speaker 2: you're thinking they're not to be able to get a
37:00
Speaker 2: deal done with t Higgins.
37:02
Speaker 8: Well, you know, I think they'll franchise make I think
37:04
Speaker 8: they could franchise him again. But he's off of one
37:06
Speaker 8: franchise tag, right, so you can go to here's the thing.
37:11
Speaker 7: It's not a great wide receiver draft.
37:13
Speaker 8: So if I'm the Bengals, I'm getting a deal done
37:15
Speaker 8: with Hendrickson. It's just me the new general manager. Sorry, Toby,
37:18
Speaker 8: I'm gonna do your job for you a little bit here.
37:20
Speaker 8: I don't have to take the bullets you have to take,
37:22
Speaker 8: so it's easier. But I'm probably I'm keeping a rusher.
37:25
Speaker 8: And then what I'm doing is I'm gonna say, look,
37:27
Speaker 8: we're gonna do it one more time. T We're gonna
37:29
Speaker 8: franchise you again. It's gonna be good money. Franchise tag
37:31
Speaker 8: a wide receiver's good money. Now you have to hope
37:34
Speaker 8: he still comes into camp because the new thing is
37:36
Speaker 8: gonna be I'm gonna sit out. I'm gonna force you
37:38
Speaker 8: to trade me. If that happens. You know, you cross
37:40
Speaker 8: that bridge when you when you get there. You can
37:43
Speaker 8: also maybe make a decision you franchise tag him and
37:46
Speaker 8: then you can rescind it later on, depending on how
37:47
Speaker 8: your draft works out.
37:49
Speaker 7: So you know, if you need a wide receiver. I
37:52
Speaker 7: like Luther Burden. I think that uh McMillan will.
37:55
Speaker 8: I think he's gonna test pretty well, so he'll probably
37:57
Speaker 8: be gone by the time the pick is made. Now,
38:00
Speaker 8: Matthew Golden is somebody who's gonna run well here and
38:03
Speaker 8: Tess Well. I could see Matthew Golden as a potential Bengal,
38:06
Speaker 8: but I looked at wide receivers for you guys in
38:08
Speaker 8: the second round.
38:09
Speaker 7: And Jack Besh.
38:10
Speaker 8: Who's about two hundred and twenty pounds, hands like flypaper
38:13
Speaker 8: like flypaper like really sticky hands, good route runner, tough,
38:17
Speaker 8: tough kid, had a great Senior Bowl. You know, he's
38:20
Speaker 8: one of those possession receivers you got the number one
38:22
Speaker 8: on the other side. What you're looking for as a
38:24
Speaker 8: complimentary too. And I think somebody who can win possession catches,
38:28
Speaker 8: can make tough catches, contested catches, has great hands. You know,
38:31
Speaker 8: that's something you could look for in the second round.
38:34
Speaker 8: So he's one of those guys to me that you
38:36
Speaker 8: could potentially be looking at. I had another target for
38:40
Speaker 8: you in the second round, wide receiver.
38:42
Speaker 7: Let me give you another one for your for your
38:43
Speaker 7: listening audience.
38:44
Speaker 8: Here, Oh Trey Harris, Well, Tray's going to be more along.
38:48
Speaker 8: I don't think he'd be the great fit. That's more
38:49
Speaker 8: Jamar's role. So I would say the next guy might
38:52
Speaker 8: be well, Emeka Igbuka would be a good one. And
38:57
Speaker 8: Jaden Higgins there he is from Iowa State. Ayden Higgins
39:00
Speaker 8: to me, fits the t Higgins role really well. He's longer,
39:04
Speaker 8: if that's what you cover it as a longer receiver
39:07
Speaker 8: with good ball skills. Jayden Higgins from Iowa State would
39:11
Speaker 8: be a player at forty nine who should be in
39:14
Speaker 8: that general vicinity. He should be available sometime between forty
39:17
Speaker 8: and fifty.
39:18
Speaker 2: No relation to t Higgins, but he looks a lot
39:21
Speaker 2: like I'm a tall, big target, big reach, big wingspan
39:25
Speaker 2: kind of guy.
39:26
Speaker 7: Yeah. And you know, sometimes in my eleven years of
39:30
Speaker 7: doing this.
39:30
Speaker 8: With NFL, and I did it before this, what you
39:34
Speaker 8: find is that head coaches and general managers, whether it's
39:37
Speaker 8: on the collegiate level, Nick Saban used to have the
39:39
Speaker 8: same type of players come in year after year.
39:42
Speaker 7: So my player comps a lot of times.
39:43
Speaker 8: Would be former Alabama, you know, Crimson Tide players because
39:47
Speaker 8: they were so similar body type wise and play play wise. Well,
39:51
Speaker 8: when you have Zach and Tobin and offensive staff that
39:56
Speaker 8: I could see them saying, look, our second wide receiver, we.
39:58
Speaker 7: Really liked what t did for we want to find
40:00
Speaker 7: a guy like him. So then you start developing types.
40:03
Speaker 8: If you didn't already have a type that you wanted
40:06
Speaker 8: from a trade standpoint, if you had somebody you're just
40:09
Speaker 8: coming off of that was really good, it makes sense
40:12
Speaker 8: that subconsciously you want to find that kind of guy again.
40:15
Speaker 8: So I think it would make sense that that's one
40:17
Speaker 8: of the reasons I went and searched out players that
40:20
Speaker 8: were bigger, that could win above the rim, that had
40:23
Speaker 8: strong hands, you know, because I think that the Bengals
40:25
Speaker 8: coming off of that guy, want to find that guy
40:29
Speaker 8: again because it's it's worked pretty well for him so far.
40:32
Speaker 2: Yes, it has Lancer Line from NFL Network is our guest.
40:35
Speaker 2: The Bengals need a guard. I would be surprised that
40:38
Speaker 2: they went for one in the first round. Do you
40:40
Speaker 2: have a Day two or even Day three guard that
40:44
Speaker 2: would make sense for Cincinnati.
40:46
Speaker 7: I always have Day two and Day three picks.
40:48
Speaker 8: I just I got my little cheat sheet here, so
40:50
Speaker 8: I can I can find you a Bengal. Let's see
40:52
Speaker 8: for what the Bengals like to do. I would say, well,
40:56
Speaker 8: there's a player that I like a lot in the
40:58
Speaker 8: fourth round named Josh Gray Oregon State. I think he's
41:01
Speaker 8: about a fourth round pick. He was at the Shrine Game.
41:04
Speaker 8: He's a former tackle turn guard from Oregon State. He's
41:07
Speaker 8: got some outside zone experience at Oregon State when they
41:10
Speaker 8: ran that. But what a lot of teams like to do,
41:12
Speaker 8: and when I look at the Bengals, I want to
41:13
Speaker 8: find guys that can really protect.
41:15
Speaker 7: I mean, that's obviously got to be the thing now.
41:17
Speaker 8: So if I can find a tackle, a guy who
41:19
Speaker 8: played tackle who now plays guard and he's got experience
41:22
Speaker 8: with his hands and his pass sets, you know, that's
41:25
Speaker 8: what I'm covering.
41:25
Speaker 7: So I'm looking for that.
41:26
Speaker 8: Charles Grant from William and Mary is going to be
41:29
Speaker 8: a red hot name out here. Another tackle who can
41:31
Speaker 8: play guard. I think he's more of a third round player.
41:35
Speaker 8: He's going to test really, really well. He might might
41:37
Speaker 8: even go before the Bengals draft.
41:39
Speaker 7: In the third round. But that's another name you want
41:41
Speaker 7: to see.
41:42
Speaker 8: And then i'd say White milem very tough guy, physical,
41:46
Speaker 8: aggressive once again, former tackle. He's got shorter arms, so
41:50
Speaker 8: he's going to have to move inside, but he has
41:52
Speaker 8: the experience of playing out there at tackle.
41:55
Speaker 7: He is going to have the core strength that you want.
41:58
Speaker 8: And he's nasty, and I think getting nastiness on the
42:01
Speaker 8: front for the Bengals, but not sacrificing pass pro is
42:05
Speaker 8: going to have to become a big priority.
42:07
Speaker 1: Mike Kasicki is a free agent.
42:09
Speaker 2: Eric All, the tight end they drafted last year out
42:11
Speaker 2: of Iowa, has a significant enough knee injury that he's
42:14
Speaker 2: not expected to come back this year.
42:16
Speaker 1: So same question.
42:17
Speaker 2: I don't think the Bengals would take one in the
42:19
Speaker 2: first round. What about day two or day three for
42:21
Speaker 2: tight ends.
42:22
Speaker 7: It's a great year for tight ends. It's a very
42:25
Speaker 7: deep year.
42:25
Speaker 8: For tight ends, and I think you know day two
42:29
Speaker 8: I would rather personally wait. Well, so Elijah Arroyo would
42:33
Speaker 8: fit from a pass catching standpoint, if you value the
42:36
Speaker 8: pass catching over the blocking, if you want kind.
42:39
Speaker 7: Of a combination guy.
42:40
Speaker 8: I think Gunner Helm from University of Texas, he's going
42:43
Speaker 8: to be more of a third early fourth type tight end.
42:46
Speaker 8: Harold Fannin is a pure He led the league, he
42:49
Speaker 8: led the nation, and like catches and receiving yards.
42:52
Speaker 7: He was just he was a monster. They targeted him
42:56
Speaker 7: left and right.
42:57
Speaker 8: Great pass catching tight end once again, he's more of
42:59
Speaker 8: a slot though he's not going to do a whole
43:01
Speaker 8: lot of blocking, so if you want both of those things.
43:05
Speaker 8: A guy that I like a lot is Thomas Faedone
43:07
Speaker 8: from I don't know if it's Fidona for Dona and
43:09
Speaker 8: to check, but from Nebraska.
43:12
Speaker 7: I really was impressed with him. He's a longer tight end,
43:16
Speaker 7: but he is where.
43:17
Speaker 8: GATSICKI is just going to try to win above the rim.
43:19
Speaker 8: Use that indoor volleyball experience to help you as a
43:22
Speaker 8: pass catcher. This is a player who's got some nastiness
43:25
Speaker 8: and toughness to him.
43:27
Speaker 7: As a blocker.
43:28
Speaker 8: He is I think an underappreciated route runner and pass catcher.
43:32
Speaker 8: So to me, he's a great value pick in the
43:35
Speaker 8: fourth round for this tight end class.
43:37
Speaker 1: Duke Tobyn spoke to reporters on Tuesday.
43:39
Speaker 2: He called the Bengals a championship caliber team.
43:42
Speaker 8: Do you agree, Well, it doesn't take much to switch
43:47
Speaker 8: you from good to championship and the first thing he
43:49
Speaker 8: got to do is get back, you know, is get
43:51
Speaker 8: in the playoffs and go deep into playoffs. But you're
43:54
Speaker 8: not that far removed from a Super Bowl. I think
43:56
Speaker 8: if the pass protection is better, I think, you know,
44:00
Speaker 8: it would have helped if Jamar had been in camp
44:02
Speaker 8: and you got off to a little faster start, obviously,
44:05
Speaker 8: but I think having a pass rusher, you can't You're
44:08
Speaker 8: not a championship caliber team.
44:09
Speaker 7: If you lose Trey Henderson, You're just not. You have
44:11
Speaker 7: to rush the pass.
44:12
Speaker 8: You've got a great pass covering linebacker, which is a
44:15
Speaker 8: big difference maker in today's NFL. I think if you
44:17
Speaker 8: tighten up the secondary just a little bit, you keep
44:20
Speaker 8: the pass rusher you've got, and then you bolster the
44:24
Speaker 8: offensive line and you fill in some of the spots
44:26
Speaker 8: that you and I have talked about. Yeah, I don't
44:27
Speaker 8: see why not. I mean, the Bengals were plus plus minus.
44:31
Speaker 8: You know, they had three games that went against them
44:33
Speaker 8: that could have gone in their favor. We'll do the
44:35
Speaker 8: math on that. We're looking at it. You know, no
44:36
Speaker 8: one wanted to see the Bengals in the playoffs. Nobody
44:39
Speaker 8: wanted to see a red hot Bengals team, so you're
44:41
Speaker 8: not that far off.
44:42
Speaker 1: Lance.
44:42
Speaker 2: Always appreciate your time. Your expertise is outstanding. Thank you
44:46
Speaker 2: so much.
44:46
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Thanks.
44:48
Speaker 2: Lance's dad, Larry, was the offensive line coach at the
44:51
Speaker 2: University of Cincinnati for four years under Rick Mentor, during
44:55
Speaker 2: a stretch where the coaching staff included Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh,
45:00
Speaker 2: and Rex Ryan, among others. That's going to do it
45:04
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