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Women Around the World: Lavinya Stennett · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I welcome to Stephanie.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told your protection of iHeart Radio. Just go ahead
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: to give a content morning. We are talking about race
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and racial trauma and black history, and if you know
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: anything about the US, we don't have a great history
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: on teaching black history. So if you are tired of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: that and you've already been traumatized enough, you might want
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: to skip this episode. Okay, Annie, let's start this with
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: a question, because you know I love it. So this
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: is Black History Month for us in the US, and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: honestly so United States is up in conversation and controversy
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: with so much talk about race and curriculums and what's
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: being taught in school, which made me think about how
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: you and I are both from small town North Georgia.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: We got out of education and mine was probably way
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: smaller than yours. But you know, small town North Georgia,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: fairly racist, fairly white area. Do you remember what you
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: were taught when it comes to black history? I do.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I was fortunate in terms of that that I delan Ago,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: where I grew up. It's a small town, but it's
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: also it's very conservative. But as a college in it
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that's somewhat. There was liberal. There was liberal, more liberal
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: people than perhaps other conservative towns, even if they were
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the minority. That's not to say that liberal people cannot
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: make mistakes when it comes to race, because they absolutely can.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: The school I went to, I would say we learned
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: about race and racism in high school. I can't remember
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  Speaker 1: before that. But I also think that it was for short,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: cushioned in a way to make it palatable to white people.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Like it was, we learned about it, but it was
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: still very like almost kind of clinically separated. And then
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: when it was ant was like, but they were good
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: white people too, right right? Oh yeah, I love how
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: that always comes through. What's so funny is I had
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: a roommate that lived near you. I think they were
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: you're Delonaga, yes, and they were Dawsonville or they rivals
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: or something. So my friend from Dawsonville when she now
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: were roommates, and this is the way after college for me.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: This is like probably at most five, six, seven years ago,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: so not too long ago. We were talking about racism
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  Speaker 1: for I don't even know why. White girl Asian person
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and another white girl. We're all sitting talking and she
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: said something about slavery, and her first conversation was, I mean,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: can they really complain? And she said they didn't. They
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: sell themselves like they like other black people sold black people.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And like the two of us sat and looked at her.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Her face turned red because I think our faces turned
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: red too before her, So she knew she made a
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: big mistake. This is in Atlanta, and this is where
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: she would have called herself liberal. People around her would
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: call herself liberal. But we know how this goes, and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: we had to be like, what the and then have
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: a long conversation of like, this is a very bad conversation.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: This is what white conservatives would say racist asked would
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: say this as a reason as well, and here's why
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: this is completely wrong. ABC. So I just find that
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: funny because I'm like, y'all are near each other, and
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I think, say around the same age, so what one
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: person was taught versus what another person was taught in
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the same age range. I grew up also with no
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: black people in our school period, no black people. I
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: was one of two Asian people. We were the minority,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: and then we had a small group of blint students
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: who were there but also felt ostracized and would often
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: just stay in their peer group, which makes me sad.
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  Speaker 1: And all of this, and I was so die hard
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and making sure white people were comfortable that I was
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable hanging out with another Asian person, so we didn't
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: really hang out, which I feel like I missed out
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: on so much because of that. But however, and I
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: remember going into high school and me thinking I'm progressive
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  Speaker 1: and empathetic and trying to get into what was happening.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: And we were talking about the Civil War, and of
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: course we were taught about the Civil War. We were
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: taught about Martin Luther King, but I can't even tell
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: you too many stories. We were taught about him doing
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: non violent protests and why that was important. So the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: general idea of racial equality was accepted, the general you
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: know what I say that the palatable as you said
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  Speaker 1: version of it of like, yeah, of course everybody's created equal.
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  Speaker 1: We just needed not we don't need we don't see color,
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  Speaker 1: which is exactly what we were told. It was an
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: the middle of the whole melting pot bs and acclimating bs.
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  Speaker 1: And during that time, the history teacher whom I loved,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: he was one of my favorite teachers really thought he
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: was great and didn't realize until later how bad this was.
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  Speaker 1: Was the first person to make this statement about the
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Civil War, how it was not about slavery but about
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: state rights. And I moved on with that not thinking
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  Speaker 1: anything about it. Obviously, it made enough impact in my
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: head to be like, this sounds weird, but okay, I'll
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: go with it. Sure, my not and believing things like
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Gone with the Wind, which I loved as a sixth grader,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: because the romantization of slavery, which is awful, awful, awful, awful,
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  Speaker 1: awful that I'm like, wow, Wow, my school was super racist, Like,
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  Speaker 1: of course I know that now. Of course I kind
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of got that then because again when I see it
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  Speaker 1: how I was treated and what roles I got to
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: play in plays, I was always a minority character and
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: and don't I'm not gonna talk about it because I
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: don't want to go too deep into it. And they
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  Speaker 1: were all super racist and being you know, made fun
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  Speaker 1: of being called Chinese, being called a chink, being called
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  Speaker 1: all these things. Growing up and accepting it because I
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: was told they just were jealous of me. Again, very
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: white glossing over of how much hate there really is
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to different races. All of that to
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  Speaker 1: say is we really are in dire need of good
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  Speaker 1: racial theory and conversations, and we're not the only ones.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: We're not the only ones. And the reason I wanted
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: to talk about this is we're highlighting a woman today
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  Speaker 1: who not only was so tired of the fact that
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: black history is so often downplayed and controlled by voices
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  Speaker 1: who are not from the black community, which is exactly
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  Speaker 1: what I saw in my school, the narrative being perpetuated
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: by white people to make themselves look better, and that
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  Speaker 1: she created a curriculum and a whole social enterprise to
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: get better access and material for black history in the UK.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And we are talking about Lavina stint who created the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Black Curriculum in twenty nineteen and BT Dubbs. She is
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: from the UK. I know, if you're a UK listener,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: you already know. While we have Black History Month in February,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Black History Month in the UK is in October. So
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to go ahead throw all that out there.
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  Speaker 1: So Stinnett is an activist, an entrepreneur who has been
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: active and working in the Black Lives movement in the UK,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: UM and talks about the lack of black history being
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  Speaker 1: taught within the schools and recognizes the importance of trying
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  Speaker 1: to bring a new way of teaching history. The organization
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: offers different services to schools and companies that help with
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  Speaker 1: curriculums designed to teach art based quote Black British history,
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  Speaker 1: workshops that include politics in the legal system, land and
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  Speaker 1: the environment, art history, and migration. They also have services
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  Speaker 1: to help teach educators as well as consultation for curriculums
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  Speaker 1: within schools that can help with auditing and help add
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  Speaker 1: Black history within already existing training and curriculums. Right, And
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: she does this on a positive conversation, And I think
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  Speaker 1: this is such a big point to the curriculums that
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: we've talked about that we do see this horrible, tragic
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and it is it's awful, awful, awful, But for her
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  Speaker 1: as she speaks on it, and I know a lot
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  Speaker 1: of the black community, black educators seeing the joy in
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  Speaker 1: black history is missing as well. And that's what she
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  Speaker 1: wanted to do, is like, yeah, she knows all the
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  Speaker 1: horror stories, she lives with, some of the racism and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: some of the horror stories. They wanted to talk about
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  Speaker 1: also the joy and the triumphs of it all as well,
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  Speaker 1: and so yeah, that's one of the big points she
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  Speaker 1: talks about in creating this movement through art and all
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  Speaker 1: of that, instead of talked about her own education and
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: how she realized that it was lacking in regards to
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  Speaker 1: Black history. But her family taught her to be proud
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: of her Jamaican heritage and who she was, and she
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: stays in a BuzzFeed interview quote, I was taught to
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: be proud of my hair. I never had my hair
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: permit or texturized. The message was always to be really
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: confident in your skin and yourself. And I think that
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: empowerment was translated through the kind of cultural schooling. I
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: had things like racism and standing up for yourself. I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: had those conversations with my parents. And as to what
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: made her go into a big enterprise like this, she
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: credits her time in New Zealand when she was in
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: her last year of African and Development Studies at the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: University of London's School of Oriental in African Studies or
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: the s o a S. She was there for three
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: months to study the national dance Kappahaka, and she said
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: of her studies quote, I was surrounded by culture that
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  Speaker 1: has faced oppression and pulled themselves out of that oppression.
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  Speaker 1: There are so many parallels between where we are in
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  Speaker 1: the UK, my own upbringing, and me not being taught
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  Speaker 1: my own history. And in another interview, she says in
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: learning Miori Culture, it dawned upon me that there was
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  Speaker 1: a lack of education more widely around the impacts of colonialism,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: but more specifically a lack of narratives that showcase the
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: reclamation of our culture and the history on that cinemon
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  Speaker 1: is so beautiful and we need that here too, And
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: she talks about the overall importance of learning one's own
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: roots and understanding individual backgrounds. In another interview she did
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: in Bustle, she says about the vision of the Black curriculum.
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  Speaker 1: Our vision is to encourage a sense of identity and
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: improve a social cohesion. The reason I started this wasn't
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: specifically to change the national curriculum and influence just one
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  Speaker 1: cohort of students is for everyone and always has been.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: It's British history, and as long as black students are
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  Speaker 1: learning in this education system, they have to understand fully
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: how this society works and functions. I believe. I believe
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: if we get it right from the beginning, we will
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: have a much fairer society. That'd be more empathy, more understanding,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and more room for learning about each other as people.
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  Speaker 1: That's the key. We're in the same country and have
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the same history, and we are equal. And according to
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the site the Black curriculum dot com, their aim is
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: quote to prepare students to become fully rounded citizens ready
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: for an increasingly globalized world. Our curriculum is grounded in
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the arts for young people to engage with history, imaginatively
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: encouraging student satisfaction and critical thinking skills. Through our holistic approach,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: we aim to remedy a wider systemic issue and stint
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: It has pushed and has done so much work to
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: make it easier for educators to use these forums. They
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: were denied by the UK government in their request for
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the mandatory inclusion of black histories and schools, but they
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: are still continuing their mission, including a book written by
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: stint It called Omitted The Untold Black History Lessons We
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Need to Change the Future, which is set to publish
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: in another for a book list, Yes so many, Sony,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: And here's a little bit about the book on Amazon
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: dot com if you want to go look. Inspired by
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: livingston Its work with a Black Curriculum, this book explores
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: these important questions by providing the reader with a series
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: of accessible social lessons designed to go beyond the page
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and provide us with the tools to implement this into
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: our everyday lives. Lavina will dive into popular misconceptions about
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: black history, to debunking persistent, archic yet still ever present
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: and damaging myths, to understanding why education still hasn't changed
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: even in schools now and what motivates her to keep fighting.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: She says, I have an internal fire because of some
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of the experiences I went through. I always knew there's
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: so much more that could be done. I myself was
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: excluded from school, so I know what education can look
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: like for people who weren't encouraged or supported within the system.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: So I get it, you know, And that does say
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: a lot. She is right on that it excludes so much.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about the internment camps. I knew
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: nothing about the Chinese immigration laws that happened way back when,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: exclusionary laws way back it when, And they probably don't
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: want me to know it because they want me to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: feel welcome, even though I was again called names and
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: made fun of for being Asian in general. I also, yeah,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: like when we talk about people not knowing about Black
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Wall Street and the massacre that happened there, or to
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Skuggee and the many experiments that happened there until after
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: they left college, even not until they watched TV, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: having to really seek out this information like that is
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: just a tragedy in itself. You know, we have a deep,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: dark history of lynchings that happened in our state alone,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in Georgia, some of the highest numbers, and trying to
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: learn about my area and how disgusting and gross and
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: how what kind of narrative played in them, trying to
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: ignore it. That that's that. Really. There's this whole conversation
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: about why critical race theory is so important, and honestly,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I don't even know much about it. I won't lie
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: like coming in I understand. I mean, we know it's
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: not taught in school, so I don't know how they're
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: banning something before it's even taught because we weren't taught
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: any of these things. You have to seek it out
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: in college even, you know, trying to figure out what
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: this is as a social worker. I knew, I knew more,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: but still not as much as I should have for
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the population that we have in the communities that we have.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: And I think this is important. And she also talks
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: later into a different interview about how black women are
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: really carrying the load and are tired, and we've talked
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: about this previously. Absolutely I cannot imagine the level of
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: constant fighting and her having to be like, I'm tired
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: of this about not this, so I'm going to create
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a whole new enterprise, whole new organization to try to
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: get conversations happening, and then being shut down. Two were
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: being shut down because they don't want to technik about
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the bad things like that. Yeah, yeah, it is incredibly frustrating.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I think this work that Lavinia is doing is so
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: so important because it does matter what you learn when
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: you're a kid in school, and as you said, I
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: think that's a huge unfortunate problem where like sometimes you
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: might not even know the questions to ask or what
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: to seek out. And that's why I think support systems
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and people doing these kinds of projects are so important
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: until we can make systemic change, because we need that
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: information and I it's vital. So it's frustrating that it
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: falls once again in this case too black women to
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: be like, no, read this, it's important. But I think
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it's on all of us to try to expand our
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: horizons and and get this history because it has been
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: so erased and so whitewashed, and we we need to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: start combating that seriously, right, and just just to go
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: ahead and put it out there. It's done, The work
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: is done for you. All you have to do is
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: look for it. And I know sometimes you have to
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: ask questions, but you have to start looking, start from
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the beginning. Let's not tax black women to add to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: them because it's already there. They've probably already done it.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Just go ahead and keep looking, and then after that
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: have a discussion and thorough, thorough research. And here we
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: go again. Not only do we have living you're doing
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: this work, but she wrote a book all things that
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: you might have missed, and it's coming out, so we
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: should go ahead and all preorder this book today. I'm excited.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I love I love how many of them women we
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: talk about on this. I'm like, oh, I've got to
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: read this book. Yes, So we'll definitely keep an eye
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: on that very excited to read it. Please go check
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: out Lavinia's were listeners in the meantime, If you have
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: any suggestions for people we should spotlight in this segment,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: or any other suggestions we would love to hear from you,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: you can email as the Stuff Media Mom Stuff at
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can find is on Twitter
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: at moms touf podcast or an Instagram and Stuff I've
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I bet she's got a book. You got a book,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Christina let us know, and thanks to you for listening.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: No One Ever Told You was a production of IR Radio.
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