Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.398: Beauty VC & Thought Leader, Rich Gersten of True Beauty Capital Explains Beauty Brand Funding

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E.398: Beauty VC & Thought Leader, Rich Gersten of True Beauty Capital Explains Beauty Brand Funding · Skin Anarchy

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1:27
SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, it's Ecta.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to pop in before the episode starts with Rich.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to mention, since we are talking to the guru of Venture Capital here today in this episode, I wanted to actually give a shout-out to one of my favorite skincare lines I recently discovered this year, and their name is Simpure S-I-M-P-U-R-E.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you guys had a chance to catch my interview with Annabelle Catania, who is the founder of the line, but this line, you guys, oh my goodness, when I say every product works, I'm not joking.
2:00
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2:12
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2:16
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2:25
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2:32
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2:34
SPEAKER_01: It's Simpure Skincare, and if you have not already, please give us a follow and a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Podcasts wherever you tune in.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: We're available on over 10 platforms at this point, including Amazon and My HeartRadio.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: So I really encourage you guys to check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, um, let us know how we're doing, and also uh chime in and let us know what you think of our interviews.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: I love hearing from all of you, and stay tuned for this phenomenal episode.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: I am so excited that I had a chance to sit down and talk to one of the true thought leaders of this industry.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: So stay tuned, and I hope you love it.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Speaker Anarchy.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: It's your host, Ekta, and I have such a wonderful guest today.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm very honored to be hosting him.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I really, really am a huge fan of his work.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, just you know, all around, I can't say enough good things.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Rich Gerson, who is the co-founder of True Beauty Ventures.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's a beauty industry advisor, actually.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Rich.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm so, so honored to be hosting you, like I said.
3:48
SPEAKER_04: Oh, great.
3:48
SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for having me.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it's uh the pleasure is all mine.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: I really actually want to get started.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, you know, learning all about you and um how you got into venture capital and just uh kind of give us a little run down memory lane, if you could.
4:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a long and winding road.
4:04
SPEAKER_04: And at my age, I'll try not to take up the entire podcast telling that story.
4:09
SPEAKER_04: Um, but I, you know, my first job at a business school was in private equity.
4:14
SPEAKER_04: Um, and about five years in, I became a consumer sector focused private equity uh investor.
4:20
SPEAKER_04: I spent nine years as a partner at a firm called Northcastle Partners, where I started initially investing in the beauty space.
4:28
SPEAKER_04: Uh, my last five years there, I led three successful investments for them.
4:32
SPEAKER_04: And at the direction of the founder of the firm, uh, at his request, I started spending about 50% of my time just focused uh on the beauty space.
4:41
SPEAKER_04: And so we identified the benefit of focus as the cumulative knowledge and network you build in your focus area.
4:49
SPEAKER_04: And one way to make that a more valuable asset was to spend more time just focused on the space.
4:54
SPEAKER_04: And so I did that again.
4:56
SPEAKER_04: I was there for nine years.
4:58
SPEAKER_04: I left.
4:58
SPEAKER_04: Uh I went to a consumer private equity firm called Catterton Partners, now called L Catterton.
5:04
SPEAKER_04: I was there for four years and then spent nine years at another consumer fund that was just starting called Tengrim Capital Partners.
5:11
SPEAKER_04: And while I was at Tengrim in the nine years there, we did eight investments in the beauty space.
5:16
SPEAKER_04: And my last six years at Tengram, I it wasn't mandated by anybody but myself, but I self-mandated that I would just spend 100% of my time focused on the beauty space.
5:26
SPEAKER_04: I loved it, I was good at it, amazing people.
5:29
SPEAKER_04: It's all I wanted to do, and so it's all I did.
5:32
SPEAKER_04: Um, and once I mandated that to myself, um, I started meeting with all these amazing brands and founders in the beauty space.
5:41
SPEAKER_04: And most of the most interesting ones I found were too small the day I'd meet with them.
5:46
SPEAKER_04: Um my minimum check size was 15 million, which is even small for private equity standards.
5:51
SPEAKER_04: And I'd often come across founders that were looking for two or three million dollars at an earlier stage.
5:57
SPEAKER_04: And they would say, Well, if it's not you, then who?
6:00
SPEAKER_04: And I'd give them a big blank stare, didn't quite know where to send them, other than friends and family and angel investors.
6:07
SPEAKER_04: And if you could find a VC that would write a check that small, they probably didn't understand the space as well and therefore couldn't be as valuable a partner to you.
6:15
SPEAKER_04: And so when I made the decision in early 2020 to leave Tangram and start my own thing, which was True Beauty Ventures, I called a former colleague of mine.
6:24
SPEAKER_04: Her name is Christina Nunez, also an important part of our story.
6:28
SPEAKER_04: She's a consumer investor, but more importantly, I had spent several years operating in the space.
6:33
SPEAKER_04: I think our combination of investing and operating experience is an important part of our story.
6:38
SPEAKER_04: We kicked off this thing right before a global pandemic shut us down.
6:42
SPEAKER_04: Uh, but we didn't let that stop us.
6:44
SPEAKER_04: And we raised our first fund.
6:46
SPEAKER_04: Uh, we've now completed 12 investments in that fund.
6:50
SPEAKER_04: We believe with some of the best known and buzziest brands in the beauty space today.
6:54
SPEAKER_04: And we've actually just kicked off our raise for our fund too.
6:57
SPEAKER_04: So uh the transition for me was a long and winding road ultimately that uh landed me in in VC investing from a long-standing career as a consumer private equity investor.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, I love that.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: And I follow you on LinkedIn.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: So I know, like I've I've been, you know, in my mind taking mental notes of exactly because I I love your work.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you really are, you said it, you know, you're working with the top brands, the bustiest brands in the beauty industry.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why I was just so psyched when you said yes, because I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, you've really got an eye for what's yeah, it's funny when we were raising our first fund, I used to say to people, Christina would get upset with me because she said, I don't think what you're saying doesn't make sense.
7:39
SPEAKER_04: But I used to say to people that other people do what we do, but no one does what we do.
7:44
SPEAKER_04: Um what did I mean by that?
7:47
SPEAKER_04: There are other people who write two or three million dollar checks, but they don't write it with the level of expertise and ability to add value and the degree of knowledge and expertise we have in the space and the network that and ecosystem that we've created.
7:59
SPEAKER_04: So we're we've we've approached it with a very specialized way that most investors don't have the background to do, nor have they decided to do it.
8:08
SPEAKER_04: And we, you know, we get called niche and too specialized at times, but we think that's the secret sauce to what we do.
8:14
SPEAKER_04: It's what allows us to be the preferred partners for many founders.
8:18
SPEAKER_04: It's what allows us to create these interesting partnerships and collaborations that we have in the industry because it's all we do, it's all we focus on.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, and you know what's interesting about what you said, Rich, is that uh, you know, if you can be niche, you know, with the whole venture capital thing, that's a great, great thing because, you know, that's really where you start to understand a brand, in my opinion.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm not in the in this industry or in this profession.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: So obviously, you know, just an outsider's perspective.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: But I feel that the biggest questions I get from, you know, just our listeners who are a lot of them are brand founders, um, you know, is we don't understand venture capital, you know, we don't get it.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Like we don't understand where the money comes from.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: First of all, you know, that's one of the biggest questions I get.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Another one is, you know, what is the role of venture capital in my growth as a brand?
9:08
SPEAKER_01: That's another huge question.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to really walk us down this journey of what happens once you find a brand and you're like, you know what, this is gonna be great.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, this is a really great idea.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: I want to invest in this, I want to get behind this.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: What is the process like for you working with a brand, guiding a brand?
9:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what really goes into what we call venture capital?
9:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, I think there's a lot of great area.
9:33
SPEAKER_04: I think we're different.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: I think again, you know, what we've tried to do with our strategy is blur the lines between traditional venture capital and growth equity and private equity, in part because I think our backgrounds as traditional private equity investors maybe results in us behaving or operating slightly differently than a traditional VC.
9:53
SPEAKER_04: I think also because we're sector specialized and believe we can add value, we've taken the approach to have a much more concentrated portfolio with this is a fund that's going to have 13 or so investments.
10:04
SPEAKER_04: Most VC funds will have a lot more because they're spreading the risk, hoping for the big unicorn.
10:09
SPEAKER_04: That's not our strategy.
10:10
SPEAKER_04: We want to spend time with our founders.
10:12
SPEAKER_04: What we've learned over the past two and a half years is the importance of relationship, the importance of partnership.
10:19
SPEAKER_04: And so we are very unlikely to invest in a brand that A, we've never heard of prior to meeting us, because again, if we're specialized, we've already identified the brands we think are most interesting, and then we're trying to invest in those as opposed to waiting for someone to approach us about investment.
10:35
SPEAKER_04: We also realize that uh we're going to be much better partners if we actually know who our partner is on the other side, meaning the founder.
10:43
SPEAKER_04: And therefore uh we've started to increasingly invest in founders and brands that we built six, nine plus month relationship with prior to investing.
10:53
SPEAKER_04: And so we've become very, you know, more relationship oriented, less transaction-oriented.
10:58
SPEAKER_04: Um, we're very particular about the founders that we choose to partner with.
11:03
SPEAKER_04: And so it's not the typical, I think, VC strategy.
11:07
SPEAKER_04: It's a much more hands-on, um, concentrated portfolio because we know we can help.
11:13
SPEAKER_04: There's pattern.
11:14
SPEAKER_04: The reason one of the reasons you focus as an investor is pattern recognition, right?
11:18
SPEAKER_04: And in my case, I've watched for 20 plus years what makes for a successful beauty investment and the mistakes that are made by brands and investors to make for an unsuccessful one.
11:26
SPEAKER_04: And you try and identify those patterns in your investments.
11:29
SPEAKER_04: And when you see them, you lean heavy to build the relationship.
11:32
SPEAKER_04: And when you don't, you just gently and kindly pass on something.
11:36
SPEAKER_04: Um, but the amount of time we do spend with our founders, and it's a portfolio.
11:39
SPEAKER_04: Some, you know, we spend more time with than others.
11:41
SPEAKER_04: It's not a one size fits all strategy.
11:44
SPEAKER_04: But if we get the proverbial warm and fuzzies from a founder in that in that relationship building phase of what I described, we generally lean in a little bit more than a founder who might just be looking for money.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I really love that.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: I love that you're really uh trailblazing this kind of mentality and this approach.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's definitely overdue.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've definitely watched a lot of brands that I've loved for many, many years, you know, and either their growth was slower than I expected as a consumer just watching them, or it was just, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes, but I do know now, um, you know, after having talked to some people in Venture Capital, that it's it's a very interesting area, you know, it's very interesting the dynamics of how everything plays together for the brand itself, you know, more so than any of it.
12:31
SPEAKER_04: It takes a while to build an enduring brand.
12:33
SPEAKER_04: And I think it's part of the frustration we have is maybe PE people playing on the VC block, like you're not going to build a brand and exit it in two years.
12:42
SPEAKER_04: Generally doesn't work that way, right?
12:44
SPEAKER_04: It takes time for a business to build real brand awareness and brand equity and start to scale.
12:49
SPEAKER_04: And the rapid scaling may come later on in a brand's life versus when we invest, when that tipping point or inflection point comes.
12:55
SPEAKER_04: And so I think you need to be patient, you need to seek the right avenues of growth.
12:59
SPEAKER_04: You can't artificially force accelerated growth that requires more capital than perhaps a brand needs and thus dilution to the founders and may require more risk than a founder should take on to try and achieve an outcome that may be a low probability.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: And so I think again, the the years of watching the wins and learns and trying to double and triple down on the wins that you've seen and most importantly trying to learn from the learns that you've experienced to make sure that others don't make those mistakes.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: No, I I completely understand.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And I actually, you know, I want to dial it back a little bit because, you know, just for our listeners, um what is?
13:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm gonna ask you some very basic questions.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I I think this is important because people don't know what venture what this whole process is like.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: So what is like where is that funding coming from?
13:48
SPEAKER_01: First of all, where does venture capital funding come from?
13:50
SPEAKER_04: Yep, it you know, the investor base or what's known as our limited partners in the fund, can, you know, and my again, my traditional private equity days was very institutional pension funds, insurance company, fund of funds, family offices, and the like.
14:04
SPEAKER_04: And so those are the institutional investors that generally comprise a fund investor base.
14:08
SPEAKER_04: We have our fair share of family offices and other investors like that.
14:13
SPEAKER_04: Um, what we also have, which is an interesting part of our story in our first fund, not by dollars invested, but by a number of investors, we had, you know, roughly two-thirds of our investor base is what I call beauty people.
14:25
SPEAKER_04: Um they were founders of beauty brands that had sold businesses.
14:29
SPEAKER_04: They were some current and retired executives that had done well in the space.
14:33
SPEAKER_04: And we gravitated to that in part because of our sector specialization, but they also got our story.
14:39
SPEAKER_04: They got our strategy.
14:40
SPEAKER_04: When you're fundraising with a beauty person, they don't they understand the characteristics of the industry.
14:46
SPEAKER_04: They probably know us, they're familiar with the brands that we've invested in, and we do very well there.
14:52
SPEAKER_04: When you talk to a traditional institutional investor who has no idea what the beauty industry is, they look at our portfolio with a perplexed view of what's good and what's not, having not heard of any of them.
15:02
SPEAKER_04: And again, most of those investors are male in nature, and so that doesn't help the conversation.
15:07
SPEAKER_04: Um, we definitely do better with certain types than with others.
15:11
SPEAKER_04: Uh, our strategy is very unique and sector specialized, but I would say for most traditional funds, it's an institutional investor base comprised of family offices, endowments, foundations, and the like.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: No, um, the it sounds very interesting.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: And I love that you actually have this unique approach.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: That's really cool that you know, you kind of um work with the people that have done this before.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So they also are, you know, they they're recognizing the potential of the next one in our network, right?
15:38
SPEAKER_04: If anyone in our investor base can be helpful to our founders, we'll make sure to make those introductions as well.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's really, really cool.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: And I love that you have that setup going on because honestly, you know, guidance and mentorship is something I think people do not speak of enough.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: And I really look at venture capital, um, especially you know what you guys are doing, you know.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: Um it it's it's very important to have this level of mentorship, you know, because let's be honest.
16:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, I mean that's that's what they're you know, when we when we sense a founder is looking for that again, we'll lean in a little bit more.
16:12
SPEAKER_04: But we also started meeting with a bunch of founders in our travels that were just too early, even for a fun like ours.
16:18
SPEAKER_04: They were just starting or they hadn't hit even a million of sales, they didn't have a retail partner yet, they were trying to figure out how to scale.
16:25
SPEAKER_04: And we created um about a year ago a mentorship program.
16:29
SPEAKER_04: We did it in partnership with Beauty Independent, who's a media company focused on the sports.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I love them.
16:35
SPEAKER_04: We launched that bridge mentorship program as it's been coined uh a year ago.
16:39
SPEAKER_04: We've now completed two cohorts of six founders, three per cohort.
16:44
SPEAKER_04: We're just launching our third cohort now.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: Applications are underway.
16:47
SPEAKER_04: And so that give back to the industry is a big part of who we are as people and what our mission is, but we're also trying to reinforce the you know our brand, right?
16:58
SPEAKER_04: And by leading this mentorship program, I've gotten lots of people in the industry come to me and literally thank me for doing what we're doing, that they that this is an underserved area where founders need that mentorship.
17:11
SPEAKER_04: And whether we're investing or in the case of the mentorship program, just mentoring, it's a big part of how we approach giving back to the industry.
17:17
SPEAKER_04: We also participate, and and Christina just came back from a full day in Chicago last month where she participated, as did I, in the Ulta Muse Accelerator program.
17:27
SPEAKER_04: We've done the Credo for Change program.
17:29
SPEAKER_04: We've been judges at the Tower 28 Clean Beauty School.
17:32
SPEAKER_04: We've leaned into Sephora Accelerate again because we're sector specialized, we want to continue to give back in the sector we love.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love everything you guys do, and I definitely know what you're referring to with the beauty independent uh collab that you talked about because I've been following that.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: And I just I want to say also, from my standpoint as a consumer, as whatever I am in a doctor, whatever, hats off to you for doing this.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Seriously, this is so cool to see you guys working on the this level, right?
18:03
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's not about what really, you know, I'm not gonna lie to you, what really got to me for a long time was that funding was there.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Funding was there, you know, for people.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: But that struggle of making a brand get to the point where they can really blow up that gap that existed, it's really something that used to irk me because I'm like, well, how does a brand get to you know three million dollars a year?
18:28
SPEAKER_01: How do you even get there?
18:29
SPEAKER_01: You it takes a few time.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: So by the time you get to the point where you even like qualify for this level of funding, you're you've already learned so much that I'm just like, you know, it used to baffle me because I'm like, why hasn't someone done this before?
18:43
SPEAKER_04: So I think the other thing that's been really rewarding for us again.
18:49
SPEAKER_04: We're founders having started our own baby two plus years ago, right?
18:54
SPEAKER_04: And I think most of the funders in this business aren't founders themselves.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: And I think being a founder gives us a unique empathy gene with other founders.
19:03
SPEAKER_04: And we understand what it takes to work seven by 24 and be all in and failure not being an option, and your baby needs to be successful.
19:13
SPEAKER_04: And it's that mentality and mindset we come every day to work with that I think is really refreshing.
19:18
SPEAKER_04: And I think it gives us a unique perspective when dealing with other founders uh in the industry because we are we are them ourselves.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: No, that makes sense.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: That makes total sense.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, it's the old saying of you don't know until you've gone through it.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, you're gonna learn a lot.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: I love that you have that background, and I really I value that a lot and I really applaud you for doing what you're doing because you're making a change.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: You're making a meaningful change.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: There's a difference, you know.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: And I I really, really admire that.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: But you know, I want to actually talk to you a little bit more about this uh third cohort coming up for this uh mentorship program because I know that you guys have a little bit of a, you know, uh it's almost like fun to watch, like who's gonna make it this time?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
20:01
SPEAKER_01: It's like for me, it's my LinkedIn reality show in a way.
20:04
SPEAKER_04: You know, it's it's funny because the first cohort, two of the three, one's been one's announced at No Polera, the other one hasn't announced their fundraise yet, so I won't mention it.
20:13
SPEAKER_04: But two of the three have gone on to raise funds.
20:16
SPEAKER_04: And I think being in the program has helped them.
20:19
SPEAKER_04: And I think those that have been through the program have said that they feel their business is doing better as a result of being in the program.
20:27
SPEAKER_04: And I think, you know, people thought we'd just focus on how do you raise money.
20:31
SPEAKER_04: Well, part of raising money is how do you actually run a good business and what are the things you need to do to be a good business to attract.
20:36
SPEAKER_04: It's not just about the funding, the other stuff is what relates in the funding being successful, but like doing that deep dive into a into a company's, you know, we're putting them through a mini diligence session of sorts, even though they're nowhere near ready to be diligenced by a fund like JupD Ventures, we kind of put them through it and it exposes some interesting areas of opportunity for them to improve.
20:56
SPEAKER_04: And I think they all appreciate that.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: No, and and you know, I was gonna I was gonna ask you is like, what are some of the other things that go with your kind of guidance?
21:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, I know that money is one thing, of course, like you said, you know, investment is one thing, but what are some of the other um, you know, just guidance principles or pillars that you really like to, you know, um, I I guess, you know, introduce.
21:21
SPEAKER_04: Introduce.
21:22
SPEAKER_04: We preach focus, focus and prioritize, right?
21:24
SPEAKER_04: There's too much when a brand is small, the opportunities are abundant, right?
21:28
SPEAKER_04: And so how do you focus and prioritize the things that will matter the most?
21:32
SPEAKER_04: So we're we're consistently honing in uh on trying to reinforce the things that matter most and where the focus should be spent.
21:39
SPEAKER_04: And that focuses human and capital resource, right?
21:41
SPEAKER_04: Because capital is not unlimited nor human resources.
21:44
SPEAKER_04: So you've got to get the most out of what you have.
21:47
SPEAKER_04: Um, we generally get very involved in distribution discussions, you know, what retail partners, what geographies might make sense.
21:55
SPEAKER_04: We're often involved with specific marketing strategies on the direct to consumer side.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: Which has obviously gotten tougher for brands over the past year or so.
22:04
SPEAKER_04: We generally get fairly involved in understanding gross margins and product costs and understanding how the new product calendar impacts your overall financial profile with success.
22:16
SPEAKER_04: And so it's, you know, it's nuanced, and each one needs different things.
22:20
SPEAKER_04: Team build talents a pain point for all of these brands that are trying to build out their teams.
22:24
SPEAKER_04: So leveraging our network to identify candidates, interview candidates, back channel, reference candidates.
22:30
SPEAKER_04: I mean, again, we know so many people, it's very easy for us to backchannel uh potential candidates of any sort.
22:36
SPEAKER_04: So we spend those areas in so many different ways from supply chain to marketing to retail distribution to organization and HR.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: And that's I like I like that.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: I like that it's a holistic, you know, kind of approach.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: My I think what where I really kind of get stuck though, Rich, is this idea of okay, cool, say you got a client, you know, you got a brand on board and you funded them.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Now, where is the incentive for venture capital firms?
23:06
SPEAKER_01: And this is an overarching question, not necessarily about your firm, but just in general, you know, where is that incentive for a VC to really sign a brand?
23:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, is it a percentage that you you know get allocated in terms of the sales of the brand?
23:20
SPEAKER_01: That's how the like how does invest that kind of investment?
23:23
SPEAKER_04: No, no, we we if you've ever watched Shark Tank, it's no different than Shark Tank and I like to consider ourselves sharks, but like when my kids were younger and they asked me what I did for a living, I would watch Shark Tank and say, that's what Daddy does.
23:36
SPEAKER_04: Like, so we you know, we put a certain amount of money in for a certain percentage ownership in the brand, right?
23:42
SPEAKER_04: So the percentage you own will be a function of how much you're investing and what valuation you place on a business.
23:48
SPEAKER_04: And we don't have a minimum ownership threshold, it's a byproduct of whatever makes sense for both sides in terms of the dollars invested and the valuation that you end up negotiating.
23:58
SPEAKER_04: And so the way we make our money is when our that stake gets sold.
24:03
SPEAKER_04: Um, right.
24:04
SPEAKER_04: So we make money when we can sell our stake in a business, and that could come in an outright sale of the business at some point down the road.
24:12
SPEAKER_04: It could come in a transaction, you know, down the road with a private equity firm who buys a piece of the business, including a part of your stake.
24:19
SPEAKER_04: So again, there's there's no one way to exit an investment, but our money ultimately is made when we exit the investment.
24:26
SPEAKER_04: And the great thing about the investing business is there's pure alignment of interest with the founder, right?
24:31
SPEAKER_04: If we do well on our investment, the founder does very well on their ownership stake, right?
24:36
SPEAKER_04: And so we we like that mutual alignment of success.
24:39
SPEAKER_04: And we don't ever want to find ourselves where we can be in a position where we're successful and a founder's not.
24:44
SPEAKER_04: That misalignment gets you in trouble.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the questions I have is, you know, for example, if there's a company that you see and you know they're doing great, you know, there's going to be, you know, there's gonna be exponential growth, it's doing great, you know, up and up and up and up.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: And this actually applies a lot to public um, you know, companies, like for example, Olaplex recently went public.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: And um when it comes to the venture capital side of things, how does it work when a company goes to that level?
25:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, do you stay with them?
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Do you exit?
25:15
SPEAKER_01: Do you what what is the strategy there?
25:17
SPEAKER_01: You know?
25:18
SPEAKER_04: Yes, I think I think knowing when to sell, like if you buy a public stock, you know, easy to know when to buy something, not always so we should know when to sell something.
25:27
SPEAKER_04: And I think the interesting thing about venture capital investing or getting it earlier is you might have optionality on when you sell, right?
25:35
SPEAKER_04: So uh you might be able to take little pieces off the table as the business grows and they bring on future or subsequent investors after you.
25:43
SPEAKER_04: And and that, you know, we had a chance to sell some shares a couple times now in our K-18 investment.
25:49
SPEAKER_04: And we've chosen in both those occasions to not sell, but to actually invest more in that brand.
25:54
SPEAKER_04: And so we've chosen to double and triple down our investment there as opposed to try and take any money off the table because we have such a strong conviction, obviously, in the brand and its and its prospects.
26:05
SPEAKER_04: Um, so we're, you know, again, it's never one size fits all.
26:09
SPEAKER_04: And there might be reasons we would exit partially earlier, or there might be reasons we would continue to fund stuff longer term.
26:16
SPEAKER_04: It's you you you know it when you see it.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Now, what if if if a brand wants a long-term relationship with you guys, but you've decided, you know, this is all we could do for you, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: But they're, you know, I I know these are very hypothetical questions, but I I want to know, you know, what happens from your end in terms of, okay, we did what we did, now it's time to exit.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, why are we exiting?
26:41
SPEAKER_01: And what if the brand doesn't want you to exit?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: That kind of scenario.
26:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, we we can never force an exit.
26:47
SPEAKER_04: We're a small minority shareholder, right?
26:50
SPEAKER_04: And so that's why the partnership with the founder matters so much because generally it's the founder that's dictating or or deciding when to exit or not.
26:58
SPEAKER_04: And so those conversations, when they get to that point, happen.
27:02
SPEAKER_04: Uh, we're in the business of exiting, right?
27:04
SPEAKER_04: Our our business model is to invest and exit, and we get paid um when we exit successfully, and that's how we return money to our shareholders, right?
27:13
SPEAKER_04: So we can't be in something perpetually.
27:16
SPEAKER_04: Um, our business model is to exit.
27:18
SPEAKER_04: And so we just have to be straightforward with the founder as to what our needs are and what the timing might be, and and and hope it syncs up with what their timing and needs are, right?
27:29
SPEAKER_04: And so I think the great news about the beauty category right now is there's a large number of strategic buyers active on the MA side.
27:37
SPEAKER_04: There's even one or two SPACs in the public market active on an MA side.
27:43
SPEAKER_04: There's tons of traditional private equity firms interested in the space because it's a great space, it's an attractive space for so many reasons.
27:50
SPEAKER_04: And there's lots of funds like ours that have done very well investing in it.
27:53
SPEAKER_04: And so it attracts more capital to it.
27:55
SPEAKER_04: So I think there's always buyers uh of a good brand, just a matter of when you decide to do it.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely it makes sense.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, and one of the things, you know, Rich, I think you're like the perfect person to talk to about this because this is a question that's been for me ongoing for a very long time is this idea of, you know, I'm all about science.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm all about the science behind beauty and skincare and all these brands.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: But one thing I I I am just really hoping to see um become normalized is this idea of, you know, how NIH gives away funding, right?
28:28
SPEAKER_01: For like you write a proposal grant, etc.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: etc.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: So what, you know, where is this?
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Um is there a place for such a model in the VC landscape where you're getting these, like basically it's funding allocated to brands that are doing innovative work?
28:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, for example, like, you know, if they're contributing to product development that is eventually going to be endorsed by things like the American Cancer Society, or if they're really doing things that are going to be breakthrough, you know, in terms of whether it's technology, engineering, whatever it is, it's going to add to something really big later on.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: How does that work?
29:03
SPEAKER_01: Or is there something like that in the VC space where we're really kind of creating this fund that is allocated based on like a proposal that's given?
29:12
SPEAKER_04: You know, like this is what I think, you know, the VC community are we're for-profit investors, right?
29:18
SPEAKER_04: We're deploying capital to get more capital back than we put in.
29:22
SPEAKER_04: Uh on smaller scales, you'll see grants um made by brands to other brand founders, you know.
29:31
SPEAKER_04: You know, conceivably we don't we don't have it now, but conceivably you could see where the mentees going through our cohort get a small grant for being in it.
29:39
SPEAKER_04: But those are going to be less meaningful financially.
29:42
SPEAKER_04: They'll be more symbolic of something that's been done.
29:45
SPEAKER_04: Um, so I don't I don't necessarily see what you're saying happening on a big scale in the in the beauty world, nor being driven by the investor community.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: But I think it, I mean, I think it should, to be honest, because NIH is doing it.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's where I get confused.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I'm I'm asking because NIH gives funding for scientific-based invest in you know, people.
30:06
SPEAKER_04: NIH is a government entity.
30:08
SPEAKER_04: It's a if if if there's an if there's a government entity interested in doing what you're saying, that's one thing.
30:12
SPEAKER_04: But but but investors are for-profit investors, right?
30:16
SPEAKER_04: So if you're saying, you know, the grant is just a handover of capital to do some research and development without any return associated with it, that's just not going to happen in the investor community.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and you know, that that's that's interesting you say that because then it really it brings up the idea of like, you know, what really generates a return, you know, because especially in the market right now, I know with skincare people are really gravitating towards this, you know, scientific, uh, more scientific viewpoint, right?
30:44
SPEAKER_01: And and I think that that's wonderful.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: That's what it's wonderful.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: But it at one point, I I really believe as a scientist that we're gonna come to to this place a kind of a wall because the funding, I mean, let's be honest, you know, you know this probably much better than I do, is that, you know, you know, for example, lab equipment, it costs a fortune.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a million dollars just to buy a freaking uh real-time PCR machine.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's those things are so expensive.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Things like this, you know, like culture.
31:10
SPEAKER_04: Most small brands aren't buying that lab equipment, they're working with the labs that help make the products, right?
31:18
SPEAKER_04: And so the the contract manufacturing or the lab industry, as we call it, is very prevalent uh in the beauty and personal care industry.
31:28
SPEAKER_04: And that's where founders working with those labs and partners can collaborate on ideas.
31:34
SPEAKER_04: And obviously, the contract manufacturers themselves are for-profit companies themselves and are also coming up with the innovation for the brand partners because they know they're going to get the manufacturing business that goes with making the product that they help co-create or develop.
31:47
SPEAKER_04: And so there is an ecosystem in place.
31:50
SPEAKER_04: There's obviously clinical testing facilities too for certain skincare products where they want to actually do clinical studies on the finished goods.
31:57
SPEAKER_04: There's obviously consumer panel studies you can do that are more cost efficient, but make less claims associated with them.
32:02
SPEAKER_04: So there's different ways to approach the clinical efficacy piece of it, but a lot of the infrastructure in place for research and development exists already by for-profit companies.
32:12
SPEAKER_04: And it's not necessarily falling on the hands of the brand.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: But that's that's a problem, though, isn't it?
32:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it's a problem that it's for in pro for-profit companies.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's exactly why I'm asking you this, is because what if you come across a brand, you know from your expertise, this plan this brand is legit.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna do something big, you know what I mean?
32:29
SPEAKER_01: And it's really good technology.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, the cookie cutter labs aren't cutting it for them.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: They don't want to go to a manufacturer or a lab that's going to create another product with the same base formula with just some things added to it.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: So, what they want to do is create their product in an actual wet lab situation where they're really in control.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: For example, uh cosmetic chemists might want to start a line, right?
32:50
SPEAKER_01: And they know the science, they know what they need.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: So, from the uh the funding standpoint, how would you approach that kind of an action?
32:58
SPEAKER_04: We're part we're partnered with Ron Robinson at Beauty Stat.
33:01
SPEAKER_04: He's a cosmetic chemist by graph by background, and we actually love that founder story.
33:06
SPEAKER_04: It's quite a unique founder story in the beauty industry and in skincare.
33:09
SPEAKER_04: And the fact that he spent his career at some of the largest, most well-known beauty companies allowed him incredible credibility and authority in starting his own line.
33:16
SPEAKER_04: And he's working with particular labs himself, but isn't necessarily doing it himself.
33:22
SPEAKER_04: He's doing it in partnership with other labs and he's scaling quite nicely and capital efficiently.
33:26
SPEAKER_04: So I don't I don't know that there's a problem that needs to get solved by this.
33:31
SPEAKER_04: And I'm going outside of my lane of expertise, which I don't like to do, which is why I'm a sector specialized fund.
33:36
SPEAKER_04: But if I look at the pharmaceutical industry where lots of those grants are given, there's also, you know, lengthy patent protections and perhaps uh pricing uh that gouges consumers over time, right?
33:49
SPEAKER_04: And so um I don't know if that's good or bad either.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: No, that's a great point.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: That's a great point.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for answering that.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: I know it's uh I get very heavy into this, you know, side of things because I do interview so many brands that are so cutting-edge, you know, with their technology.
34:04
SPEAKER_04: And it's like you know, and it's important, right?
34:06
SPEAKER_04: Because when like when people asked us why we invested in K-18 before it was a commercialized brand, it's because in skincare it's much more common to see unique ingredients or proprietary technology that uh results in proven efficacy and results, it's less common you see it in hair care, right?
34:24
SPEAKER_04: I mean, we saw it in K-18 and think about a mask leave-in four-minute product that can damage or repair damaged hair, that's pretty unique.
34:33
SPEAKER_04: And that's why we leaned in heavy and continue to lean in heavy, um, because you don't necessarily see patented technology and hair care like you would in skincare.
34:43
SPEAKER_04: Skincare is largely made up of the same proven ingredients, blended with different percentages and cocktails and and marketed, right?
34:50
SPEAKER_04: Um it's very rare you see uh real patents involved in a beauty product.
34:56
SPEAKER_04: It's it does exist, and I have seen it, and I've invested in some that have it, but it's much less common in the category than it is others.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Now, Rich, I want to ask you about all these certifications that exist out there.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure you've seen a lot of them, you know.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Um obviously there's the wonderful ones like you know, leaping bunny certified, USDA organic, all these things, right?
35:17
SPEAKER_01: So, how do these play into your decision to work with the brand?
35:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you prefer for brands to have these in place beforehand, or do you I mean, uh what's your what's your over, you know, overarching viewpoint on this whole topic?
35:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think we're very we're very leery of the certifications because the certifications change and something that was important may become less important, or something else will come along.
35:42
SPEAKER_04: And I often think that that certifications themselves are what we call, they relate more to product attributes than they necessarily do brand attributes.
35:51
SPEAKER_04: And we're brand-focused investors.
35:53
SPEAKER_04: Yes, what's in the product does matter, how you communicate the ingredients of the products matter, but at the end of the day, brand matters so much more than any one certification or what your ingredient deck may say on it.
36:05
SPEAKER_04: And you know, there's you know, recently a class action suit filed against Sephora for clean at Sephora.
36:13
SPEAKER_04: Because clean doesn't mean anything.
36:14
SPEAKER_04: And Sephora's clean standards are different than credo's clean standards and what is clean at the end of the day.
36:20
SPEAKER_04: And so I think you got to be careful with some of these certifications and some of these marketing terms that may have no substance behind them, but that become trends that people jump into.
36:30
SPEAKER_04: And so, again, for us and our team, we'll try every product before we invest.
36:35
SPEAKER_04: And if we don't love the product, we're not gonna invest.
36:37
SPEAKER_04: And we'll talk to merchants at the different retail partners, we'll talk to editors, we're gonna make sure that what we're investing in is resonating at the consumer level and has a unique point of difference, including the experience our team has with it.
36:49
SPEAKER_04: And if that particular product happens to be really clinical effective and not be clean at all, that's okay too.
36:56
SPEAKER_04: There's a place in the market for that.
36:57
SPEAKER_04: But I think consumers are getting more savvy about what's on the ingredient deck.
37:01
SPEAKER_04: And I think brands need to be more cognizant of the do's and don'ts of formulating as a result.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love your answer too.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: I I'm really glad.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you and I really do uh line up with our, you know, our thinking on this because I I'm also not a huge like, you know, believer in this whole clean beauty, green beauty.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, it varies.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: It's not about being a believer, it varies, like you said, you know, it depending on the brand, depending on the retailer, et cetera.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I we're we're investors in a brand called Do.
37:29
SPEAKER_04: Uh, one of our co-founders is Charlotte Palermino.
37:32
SPEAKER_04: She's very active in social channels and do is all about ingredient transparency, but will never call itself clean.
37:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, and doesn't think the term, Charlotte doesn't believe the term clean is a is a good term.
37:43
SPEAKER_04: It doesn't like when she sees people using it in part because it doesn't mean anything and it fear mongers a little bit.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: No, it it's it's really a problem, it's become a problem, you know, and I think it's been a big problem for a long time.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a whole different conversation, but it truly I think it it makes me feel better knowing that you, as somebody in your in your position, you know, your understanding of it for what it is.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, that makes me feel better knowing that that you guys have a very, very realistic and a pragmatic approach to that whole concept of certifications because I know people were going a little crazy there, you know, for in terms of like, oh, my brand is this, this, this, and this certified, you know, and I'm like, okay, that does tells me nothing, but okay, thank you.
38:26
SPEAKER_04: You know, so it would tell you something, but how important is the something?
38:31
SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't tell me anything, Rich.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, unless you're unless you wrote me, you know, unless you're writing a medically peer-reviewed case report or review or something that has been judged by somebody of credentials.
38:43
SPEAKER_04: Your background is very unique and different.
38:46
SPEAKER_04: And the average, the average consumer doesn't maintain or possess your background, right?
38:50
SPEAKER_04: So I do think it it there is a there's a section or fraction of consumers where it will matter very much to, right?
38:57
SPEAKER_04: And that you can't ignore that.
38:59
SPEAKER_04: That that that is reality.
39:00
SPEAKER_04: Uh, I just don't think you can build an enduring scalable brand over time that'll be attractive for strategic sale if you're just reliant on the certifications.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: That definitely, definitely makes sense.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: I I just um, you know, I really want to kind of round out this interview by getting your advice.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Really, that is one of the biggest reasons I um wanted you to come on the show was because you are truly just a master at this, you know.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, wisdom, wisdom, wisdom.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: That's what I want to learn from you.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: And I uh want you to give advice to all of the brand founders out there that are tuning in.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: They are maybe new brand finder founders, maybe they have a brand, it's been in the works for seven years now or whatever, and they want to take it to the next step.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, give us some advice that you give people like, you know, that come to you for guidance.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, some advice about just expanding themselves, you know.
39:49
SPEAKER_04: First off, apply to our mentorship program and they'll give you a council uh and advice if you're selected.
39:56
SPEAKER_04: Um, unfortunately, we can only select three and have generally 100 to 120 applications that we receive.
40:02
SPEAKER_04: And so we've always been overwhelmed by the response of the number of submissions, and I can't really do more than three to do our jobs well.
40:09
SPEAKER_04: So we've limited it to three.
40:11
SPEAKER_04: But no, I think there's there's lots of, you know, surround yourself with smart people.
40:16
SPEAKER_04: You know, one founder I invested with a long time ago in the past once said to me, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
40:23
SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I do think it's important to surround yourself with smart advisors, smart colleagues, smart investors.
40:29
SPEAKER_04: If you have that opportunity, you'll make better decisions.
40:33
SPEAKER_04: And I think there's just a lot of mistakes that are generally made that are that are common in nature.
40:38
SPEAKER_04: Don't try and grow too fast unnaturally.
40:41
SPEAKER_04: Try to be as capital efficient as you can with what you raise.
40:44
SPEAKER_04: You know, we as beauty investors focus a ton on what we call productivity.
40:49
SPEAKER_04: Uh, be productive.
40:50
SPEAKER_04: What does that mean?
40:50
SPEAKER_04: Don't grow too many retail accounts too fast, be important to every retail partner you're in, be in one retail partner to start and make make the most of it.
40:58
SPEAKER_04: Don't create too many products too quickly.
41:00
SPEAKER_04: There's a risk associated with your inventory and your capital.
41:03
SPEAKER_04: Uh, create a hero skew and double and triple down on it from a marketing perspective.
41:08
SPEAKER_04: And so be productive with your distribution, be productive with your assortment.
41:12
SPEAKER_04: I think the easiest thing to do as a small brand is to get seduced by purchase orders from retailers.
41:17
SPEAKER_04: And because the fun part's creating new product, especially for founders, then they create too much product.
41:23
SPEAKER_04: And I think all about focus and resource, you know, you know, making sure that you're prioritizing what's important and doing the things that are going to matter and not get distracted with the others.
41:33
SPEAKER_04: I think the other thing that people always underestimate, and I've learned it in my career, is the importance of team members.
41:40
SPEAKER_04: And you only get where you need to be if you've got a right team and as a small brand, it's hard.
41:44
SPEAKER_04: You may have to use consultants early on in some capacities, but don't be afraid to make more expensive hires, right?
41:51
SPEAKER_04: Because you need those people to help get you to where you need to be.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: That's solid.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: That's really solid advice.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening out there, you guys took notes.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: But Rich, wow, this has been such an honor to host you.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: You are truly, truly just, you know, a well of knowledge.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: So any time.
42:10
SPEAKER_04: I've been doing it a long time.
42:12
SPEAKER_04: And I think I have a ton of respect for others that are investing with us.
42:16
SPEAKER_04: We have a lot of smart investors on cap tables with us, and I think we all bring different perspectives to the table.
42:21
SPEAKER_04: I think ultimately what we've created is a is a is a bit of a 20-year head start on some folks in terms of just the wealth of experience that we have.
42:31
SPEAKER_04: And that experience obviously does matter.
42:33
SPEAKER_04: I think founders appreciate the the nuggets of wisdom that we can provide and the observations that we can share from our learnings.
42:41
SPEAKER_04: And I think, you know, for me, it's really in the seat as an investor.
42:45
SPEAKER_04: And I think in our case with Christina as well, it's also in the seat as an operator, right?
42:49
SPEAKER_04: Having run a small skincare brand herself with a founder.
42:53
SPEAKER_04: And so I think that that perspective and combination of perspectives and experiences is quite a point of difference as well.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: And I huge shout out to Christina, by the way.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: I have to get her on as well.
43:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
43:06
SPEAKER_04: Well, I you know, it's been fun for me, you know, is watching her grow, obviously, over the past two and a half years.
43:13
SPEAKER_04: And and I I joke that she definitely gets asked to do more podcasts than I do these days, and I'm all good with it.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm I'm definitely gonna reach out to her as well.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, I really love the work you guys are doing.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie, you know, like I said, I follow you on LinkedIn, love all the posts, you know.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: I uh for everyone listening out there, you know, you you guys really should um, you know, reach out if you don't know.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're a brand founder, I really encourage you to like maybe play this episode back.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, Rich shared a lot of really, really interesting information that's very valuable, you know, especially if you're looking to grow and you don't have the resources right now, but apply to the new cohort for this, for the program, the mentorship program.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Seriously, I've been watching it at, you know, um keeping up with the news with Beauty Independent.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's such a wonderful program.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: And Rich, you're just very rewarding for us.
44:03
SPEAKER_04: We love it.
44:03
SPEAKER_04: It's part part of, you know, it's it's become part of our day job, but it's very rewarding building these relationships and helping founders in their most vulnerable stages of growth.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: And I really applaud you for that.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: So, everyone tuning in, please take a second to leave any comments, questions you have for Rich's team.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: If there's any questions you have about venture capital, any questions about the mentorship program, please leave them in the comment section or just email us and we will definitely get Rich's team involved and get you some answers.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much, Rich.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: This was so great.
44:35
SPEAKER_04: And you can always you can always reach out to me on LinkedIn, as you pointed out, very active there.
44:39
SPEAKER_04: And I think also True Beauty Ventures is active on LinkedIn and and Instagram as well, if you want to direct message us there as well.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: And I will tag the uh the company in the post on Instagram as well as LinkedIn.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: So keep an eye out if you do follow us um on either of those platforms.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: So you awesome.
44:56
SPEAKER_04: We appreciate you and all the guests that you've had.
44:58
SPEAKER_04: You've had some amazing guests on as well.
45:00
SPEAKER_04: I'm honored to be part of it.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much, Rich.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: That means the world to me.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: And for everyone else, I will be back next time.
45:06
SPEAKER_03: Take care.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
45:10
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45:15
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46:09
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46:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.