Latest / The Hearing God Podcast / The Importance of Being Chosen

Transcript

The Importance of Being Chosen · The Hearing God Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Anthony Moore.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Dan Lamus.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: And we invite you into these weekly conversations.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_04: We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here we are.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_05: Glad to be together again.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_05: Again.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_05: Again.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, Brain.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Let's kick in the gear.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: Good to be together again.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: How's it going, Dan?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's going good.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Ben, I would say I've been I've been wrestling uh with something.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Really, since the last time we got together, I've been wrestling with this.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Came out of a conversation I had with a friend.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um for some reason, uh, they they've they used the phrase in the middle of a conversation.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: This person is a you know fellow believer, a sister in the Lord.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we were talking, and she said, that's just our humanness.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really intrigued with what happened in me.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because uh I usually don't know what to do with that humanness.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Put a little uh put a little knot in your um brain.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what was really fun is she meant it in the the most innocent and matter-of-fact way that it really jarred me to say, wow, I think somehow she had the heart of God on that.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like as if he were saying, Dan, that's just your humanness, and but actually liking it, like with a smile and a joy in his heart talking about my humanness.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I it just got me going on a vein, and and so really I've been wrestling with my humanness, but more precisely um how I feel about it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of because I have this I have this hunch that I don't see it the same way God does, like He feels differently about my humanness than I do.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm probably that is that is pretty accurate.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I know I know in general, you know, everybody does see it differently, like needs some adjustment, some development, but but I'm I'm just realizing personally that the the a little bit of the cringe and the pain and the challenge of oh, there's something there to explore.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could learn to see it differently, yeah.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it would help a lot if I did that kind of thing.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been wrestling with that, and uh there was and something on the heels of that, I've been wrestling with, and I think it just kind of goes hand in hand with it, but uh, you know, we'll see kind of where where this might go.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I've been wrestling with the like, what do I do with feeling wondering if I'm important?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've been wrestling with this thing of what's I think all of us wrestle with, you know, what about our importance?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do we deal with that?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and so like uh, you know, we exchanged uh just a few comments um recently on like um whether God needs us or not.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right, and so how do we you know, and again, like there's that was a that was a bit of a power boost in my wondering all week was that little conversation.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and yeah, and it's just like it's this thing of like, okay, so is that true?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: If does if he doesn't need us and he chooses us, does that change does that change things for how I view myself?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_04: If does he need us, if he doesn't need us, well he needs he seems to need somebody.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: I guess I don't know, like again, maybe we can just w work through that through that a little bit.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like again, but just yeah, I think the the interesting perspective uh of like humanity and what we do with our frailty and our weaknesses and how we process uh you know, the things that we think are our like our shortcomings, you know, the inability to see everything and know everything from every angle and how we go through life and how we sort of do this uh really like self-assessment, like how we see ourselves.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: Because we can we can start to um feel uh undoubtedly bad, right?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's almost as if we we it's almost as if we feel bad for feeling good at times.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it feels like the default position where we feel actually feel is appropriate is feeling bad about our humanity.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: It feels like somehow that would somehow moral quality, right?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: Or it's somehow uh a it's somehow like this uh lesser thing, right?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: It's or it's like uh it's sort of like this thing that God has to go.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I know you're that, like you're a human, yes, and we all know that that's nice but not regretfully, nice but not great.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna have to come in and do the real work, yeah, yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like so it's like we we have this, we can slide into this default thinking about you know, just thinking those things about ourselves.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_04: And the reality is, I think, is different, right?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: From God, from God's perspective.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: And not not do I not do I think I I believe the reality is different from God's perspective.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, quite like it's like so how do but we slide into that, right?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: And we almost think that that's you know, this uh it's almost slightly virtuous like to have this lesser view of what it means to be human, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: It seems as it seems as though, right?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: Because we like you, yeah, you know, talking about uh importance and talking about like how we feel when we we think about our importance to God and how what does heaven think of me and you?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like, or like the honest question, the personal question is what does heaven think of me, right?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: Specifically, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't I don't think the right answer can be you just aren't important.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like if that's at one end of the scale, yeah, I don't think the answer is stop asking the question, yeah, you're not important.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, you know, which which can be inferred, and it can seem like a a shortcut answer that can almost feel theologically right, yeah, to say, oh, it's humble to say I'm not important.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: But but that can't be the full answer.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: It can't be the full answer.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because it leaves us vulnerable to to lies.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like I think it's I think again to disagree with you, I think, you know, where that plays out is when we start to believe, and again, there's some like I mean, and we've talked about humility plenty, right?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: There is something about some place in the in the midst of whatever scale we build in our minds, that that is like because I think that I let me let me make my original point here before I go off onto something else.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like if we start to believe in our lack, it's like lack of importance, which is probably connected to lack of value.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: We that goes to well, what does it matter anyway?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm going to sit here on the sidelines.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, because I'm I believe my worth doesn't matter.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so then it doesn't matter if I do anything.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: So therefore, therefore, I'm gonna get out of like quote unquote, maybe get out of God's way or stop getting in his way.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and just he he can do that or someone else can do it, but not me.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because I I'm not I think and I think there's there's just that I don't yeah, that's where I think it can go.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_04: It just it can disqualify you, right?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: It can take you out of out of the out of the game.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we sit on the sidelines and let everything go by.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it yes, and I think even in our quick conversation earlier this week on that, it was my my concern on that was man, we have to be careful with saying to people God doesn't need us because they're gonna get busy doing something else.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's gonna be, well, I'm gonna go on vacation then from God.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna go, I have these desires, I have this fire in me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: I would because it's not it's not necessarily that it's theologically true.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's what happens when we start to believe that.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's there's uh, you know, again, like it may be theologically true that God, like again, like God in his uh impassibility, in all of the attributes of God, he's completely satisfied in and of himself.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like those are the things we believe theologically about God.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and so need is may actually not be completely true about God needing us or not.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: What what what there is something, you know, I think there's a there's some other middle ground somewhere because the the problem is is what what God doesn't need me does to somebody.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: That that thought, right, that belief that he doesn't need me to do anything for him.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so this morning, as I left my house early in the morning for my usual habit of getting alone time and getting with God, and that's kind of my pattern early in the morning.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was thinking about this, and and it what was running through my mind was God, does God need the rain and the sunshine?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And does God need oxygen?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Does God need uh, you know, the soil, yeah, and and all of this?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was running through my mind, well, he created it so it might, so it has a purpose because he created it.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so therefore, for his creation to function, he needs the rain.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's the way he chose to do it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and it was reminding me of something um that NT Wright speaks about in his book, um, Into the Heart of Romans.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think I got it right this time.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I always I know it's about the heart of Romans, and I can never remember, but it's called Into the Heart of Romans.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Great book, very like a very academic book, but well worth anybody's time.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great book.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Into the heart of Romans, all about Romans chapter eight.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And in it, uh, I think it's the chapter on uh the groaning of the spirit.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he talks about, he makes this beautiful comment about how God uh, you know, God created the uh the place, uh, the place in his unfolding plan.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm liable to butcher this, so you have to go by the book to get it right.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but he he created in in the plan of salvation the the need for the Messiah and what the Messiah would do.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: What the Christ would do, what or Jesus Christ would do in the unfolding plan of salvation.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and then he stepped into that role.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so the role was solid and created by God for God's purposes.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: God stepped into it, took on flesh, yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus Christ of Nazareth Nazareth, you know, fulfilled the calling of Messiah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he was he was making the connection with Christians uh standing at the place where the world is in pain and inter and praying in that place, like taking on the ministry of intercession.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: He referred to that as a God appointed and designed role that is needed because he created it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that Christians he fulfills what he needs to do through Christians interceding in the world.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the light bulb was kind of coming on for me.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, there's something in there, God, about our importance.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like humanity is important in God's unfolding plan because that's the way God made it to work.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: It would be a missing piece in the fulfillment of his plan if humanity didn't exist.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, Dan Lamus living in Chris Manusis, New Brunswick, is important by virtue of the fact that I am part of humanity.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I am uh God has designed, purposed for me to exist.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: For me to say, or anybody to say, I am not important, is to say either God created something that didn't matter, right, or uh, or um not all humans are important.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I think and I think that's the no no no I think that's that's right.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like so so we and and I was gonna come at it the angle like this, like God doesn't create things without purpose.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: That's not who he is.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: So everything that exists has purpose.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: Now, obviously, there are we live in a fallen and broken world, sin, you know, go down that road.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so purpose gets uh distorted uh in in lesser way in lesser ways, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: But there's still like the overarching narrative and the overarching eternal truth is that God has created everything with purpose, right?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: Right, like so we talk about even like you know, uh I think I think it's Colossians one where he talks about uh you know principalities and powers and you know those kinds of things that were created and established.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and obviously at some level, those things were even corrupted to uh to a point where he had to come himself and begin the redemption and the new creation story.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so so And he took on flesh, became right.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: So, but the but the original the original intent and the original design, you know, in the I guess the restoration of all things, including principalities and powers.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, so we say that though, but but I guess I'm saying all that to say is that God created those things with purpose and meaning and value.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: And regardless, it regardless if, and again, so maybe I could say of myself, if I somehow, let's say fall short of my design and my purpose, right?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, that would be uh because I don't necessarily see or understand what that purpose is.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and so, and maybe, and maybe I do.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: I just and I and I'm choosing not to, right, to participate.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I think that's the like to me, uh just to something else that you said, just to say it in a different way, I think the you know, with purpose comes importance.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so I've created, you know, I create, you know, this phone to make phone calls and other things.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: So so that serves like that has value to me because I because it's accomplishing the things that I need it to accomplish.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I there I said the word need.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Or that that that it's intended.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like I have intended that, like that's I'm the creator that I need to kick right to do other things, right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, so that intrinsically means that that matters to me.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: And the other thing is is so that that falls short a little bit because I don't actually love my phone, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I actually so but but that but its function, it was designed to do something.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so, in order for that thing that I have designed it for to do, it must fulfill its function.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_04: And therefore, to hold the window open, it it's not really making use of the phone.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's not really making use of the thing that it's designed to do, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: Though it could prop a window open if you in in a in a pinch.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I guess along with the uh eight-track tapes.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: I guess I and I just wanted to say that that just to communicate that like what so so we as humans, we have been created with purpose and design and intent.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: And ultimately, I and I didn't I wanted to get to this point, is really God's ultimate statement for the importance of humanity is that he became one.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like this is the yeah, this is the I mean, we the theological term is the hypostatic union, right?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: That Jesus is known as the God man, right?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and so yeah, so God's ultimate plan to redeem and restore all things was he had to enter into humanity.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, and and so like and fulfill humanity's vocation, fulfill like by him and through him redeem everything, start to finish, yes, right, uh, of whatever this story is that we're living in.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but it's like, but again, just to say that his ultimate statement of value for what it means to be human is that he became human.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, dude.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so boom, so I think everybody that mark like rewind.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Go back 15, 20 seconds, whatever it is.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: So and we can we can do this funny, this funny dance in our head about like, okay, well, because we can all we can gosh, we can do a whole bunch of things that aren't helpful to us when we when we, you know, in our own little world and our own like when we're by ourselves and we're thinking through, oh man, I just really messed up today, or I can't get my junk cleared out, or even I didn't show up to you.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't show up to the case.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's like I can't right.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's like the and it's it doesn't necessarily have to be sin, it just has to be things that we feel like we're not good at.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_04: And we when we in our mind, we just do so many things with that that conversation, it's that, but yet still in the middle of that, uh God's original statement of value is that he became a human, like you, like me.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, like whoever's listening.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and so that to me, when I because I feel like my heart changed as I as we're t discussing this, yeah, like there's something eternal happening in the middle of this conversation because that is an eternal truth to say that God's ultimate statement on the value of humanity, which includes so so let's let's say let's say this.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: Let me tweak that statement.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: God's ultimate statement on his value for you know, Dan Lamus, God's ultimate statement on his value for Anthony is that he became like me.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so he entered into life on this earth like me, yeah, like with meat on bones, yeah, right, to stub his toe, to get hurt, to get offended, to to live a life in such a way, obviously, that calls us higher, right?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: Calls us into something, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: Calls us up and out, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: And to obviously, and then and then I could say this then that that in him and through him and by him we find an ultimate meaning, an ultimate purpose.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so, so through through the hypostatic union, we can see God's statement.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: I I love you.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously ultimately, it's not just because again, he still is God man, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like he is he is he was you know, he became uh human.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: and still is for eternity.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: So he's still, yeah, he's still God man right now.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and also um I think the I think the thing is is that like obviously this leads to the cross.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: This leads to him his sacrifice.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously the sin, the dysfunction, the brokenness, all finds its uh I guess the what how am I going to say this?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: It finds its uh redemption and restoration ultimately through the cross.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: So so then so then it's like, okay, so I have to start to believe his value, what what he has said, you know, what he gets to say as the creator, as the God man, and ultimately as the redeemer and savior of humanity.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: I he has said something about me.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: So then so then it then it's on me.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I think we make these decisions whether we believe them or not, but I have an I have a choice to believe what he has said about me.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so in that in that sort of like as I ponder and as I meditate upon Jesus and what he and who he is and what he's done I get the choice to believe that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wow man.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: Or not but I get the but again and so to me like to me like that but that that provides the statement of value right and so so so let's just say every other every other voice that's speaking into you that says you are not that is a lie.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yes that's right in some form or fashion it might be a little one right it might be a big one.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: But everything that everything that speaks into your life into my life that seeks to diminish what Jesus has said and done about humanity and I can sort of like whittle that down to me.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: But everything that's not that is lying to me.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly exactly exactly exactly hey you heard it first here exactly yeah well that's that's that's huge and it's worth that's worth it's worth really contemplating that um well and I sorry to it's okay to because I think some of it is is that I don't believe that some of the time like I don't believe like and again this is I if you've been with us long enough we like we it's pretty matter of fact we know our head and our heart aren't in sync all the time.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: So that even though my head knows the right answer, my heart believes something else.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's so yeah so it's like I don't my heart doesn't believe like how like we say these things like like oh God you know God can use somebody else God loves that person way more than he loves me.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: God, you know, God is doing amazing things more amazing things through that person than he is through me.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: So that that is like a statement of worth and we sort of believe like you know what I mean we can do all sorts of things that are because they're coming out of what our heart believes about who we are right who Jesus is and and we've we've twisted it and we've twisted that statement of value.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: We've still we've we've twisted what Jesus has demonstrated and said about humanity.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: And we've we've it's like tied it into a pretzel so that it's something other than what he said and that's what we we believe.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's what it necessarily I like that.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: Because I because I think there's some there's some part of my heart like at times where it's like where it's like I feel where I feel like I'm not doing like great I didn't have a great week or I didn't have uh I'm just been struggling lately.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: I can't I can't seem to whatever and and then and then if that goes on then I s if I don't fight to come back to that place of believing if I don't invite the Holy Spirit you know again is it's good to to come in and tell me right what is the truth.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: What is the truth then I can just so that that will lead me right off a cliff.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah you know again not not obviously not necessarily literal but figurative like a like a real a real cliff where it takes me takes takes me right to the sidelines.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so so I'll just say in effect yeah absolutely brings instead of joy in your life there's regret and there's frustration and struggles all these things that are false about us right and I'm not saying here that sitting here believing like like there are times where that is a real fight I think for everybody.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes who will admit it because because there are times when those voices and maybe where those voices get loud right and they feel right because our track record right in light of our track record those voices seem true.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes that's right yep yeah right so but again it's yeah well so an amazing cross reference here is that in John 15 a few of the teachings of Jesus are really relevant to what we're talking about.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: One of them is you didn't choose me but I chose you and I chose you to bear fruit much fruit fruit that will last and so that whatever you ask the Father for in my name he will do it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah then he also teaches in that same chapter you can do nothing on your own.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes unless you abide in me like unless you abide in me you can do nothing.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and okay that that teaching we we can we can we can sort of receive that it's a little easier for us to receive that about ourselves to say without him I can do nothing.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes that we got that lesson uh and we've been chosen to bear fruit yeah fruit that will last and so that and that the and so that part really grabs me whatever you ask the father for in my name he will do it like that's supposed to happen through our lives speaking of purpose but then the cross reference is back to John 5 where Jesus after after a sign and a wonder and a miracle actually says to his detractors the son can do nothing on his own yes the son only one of the wildest statements right in in the whole Bible.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right the son can do nothing on his own he only does I only do what I see the father doing.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right right and he says it a couple of times in the in that in that chapter and cross-referencing those things it doesn't take anything away from who Jesus is and was to say the son can do nothing on his own.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that wasn't a statement of failure or lack yep or anything that should be shameful or regretful.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was a statement of reality this is God is this is the community this is the way it works this is the triune God.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right the son can do nothing on his own only does what he sees the Father doing then he teaches his disciples near the the end of their before he was taken away and we know the events of his give laying down his life and the Passion week before that he teaches them you can do nothing without me on your own you can do nothing.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: We need to realize Jesus living in the flesh but not but not directed by the flesh lived perfectly in the spirit like we're called to in Romans he lived in the spirit the whole throughout all of his existence and still you know anyway um that that he now I got my I got my my brain got tripped up because I got running too fast.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway I'll get back so Jesus um I think I lost my train of thought Anthony okay where we were going anyway the cross reference of us of us saying okay us being dependent us not being able to do it on our own is not a statement that should cause shame.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes like we need to realize this is actually the way it works.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is the way that it works like does this is this is design does God need us are we important to God you know what we are important to to God to operate the way Jesus taught us to operate my importance in in Christ should lead me to not do anything without abiding in him.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: It should lead me to say I can never do this on my own.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um and and not to be ashamed of that.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to be regretful and say wow I wish I could do it on my own.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually meant to to glorify and show this is the way God works.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: God works with humans to show his glory on the earth because he wants his glory to be known in the earth.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let me uh like one of the one of the thoughts and maybe fears that you know people who and me included one of the fears that can come to a well-meaning believer is this is like so that okay so God you created me with a purpose so if I if I don't do that yes or if I don't do that perfectly will will you discard me right okay yeah and honestly like that's a that's a real thought that like so again I'm at times doing either good or bad right in relation to what I believe and what the word says about my calling my purpose my design right there is a scale on which I feel like I operate yeah so when you're with your own thoughts and you're making assessments on your own performance right which is a problem in and of itself right right right but we do we we we see our track record and we go so so what are you gonna say Jesus when I when we're looking at each other right and or even now necessarily like maybe maybe that was that's one day for sure but also like if I if I keep messing up and will will you will you discard me yeah well you know I I had a well can I just give you so I had a friend yesterday I was chatting with it was actually my friend Mike McNeil chatting with him yesterday and he was reminding me that when Peter denied Christ he was sitting around a charcoal fire.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and we know the events that followed that sure and then lo and behold after Jesus had uh risen again from the dead and he came on the beach and made a fire and and made breakfast for the disciples as they were out fishing Jesus you know Peter recognizes him jumps out of the boat his redemption comes around a charcoal fire.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And his restoration comes around a charcoal fire.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And in the in comparing those two scenes and realizing Jesus used the scene of a charcoal fire to restore Peter.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say based on how we treated Peter we could have every expectation that when we know we have fallen short of our purpose Jesus is going to ask us do you love me?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right and then it perhaps in our frustration we you know I love you.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not what we're talking about.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah and he's like well feed let's get busy let's feed my sheep feed my sheep let's do it yeah like let's do the purpose yeah like enough enough fretting about what you didn't do let's yeah let's let's go um and there might and I I think maybe well let's just say let's just sit sit there for a second like because I think you know uh there are charcoal fires of both in every life yes denial and restoration denial and restoration yeah and it and dare I say it isn't even just one of each yes that's right there are many there are many there are many chork charcoal fires in the lives of a believer right and every believer yeah where we come to a decision point or confrontation yeah and we choose to acknowledge or deny wow definitely big and then and then but I'll say this is that Jesus when the first when the charcoal fire the charcoal fire of denial happens Jesus is looking for the charcoal fire of restoration.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: Oh dude that's really good it's like again because Peter didn't build that fire Jesus did oh that's right yeah that's right right so Jesus built the fire around which Peter was restored.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: Wow so and Jesus actually prophesied it didn't hear prayed for you yeah yes I've prayed for you Peter because then I mean that you right yes yes that you would be restored and so the so the I think it's just this reality of anyway I don't I I kind of was I was like that I don't know if I've ever heard it like that before um maybe that's a book or something I don't know the charcoal fire yeah by by Anthony Moore or something like that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: But um but just to say like again like I I think back to because Jesus let's say let's say this like Jesus used the charcoal fire of redemption and restoration to call pat to call Peter back to his original like to his design.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah right yeah I got a purpose for you Peter yeah you know you're important to what I'm doing yeah what I'm gonna do wow like I'm going to right it's that I'm not gonna feed my sheep by myself right I'm not gonna take care of my sheep by myself absolutely and any Jew.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really like you know it's that dual you know obviously it's the dual thing of like you know back to uh where Jesus you know like where Peter declares you're the Christ the son of the living God Peter calls him the rock and obviously the church um you know was built upon Peter and also the revelation of Jesus Christ but it's like there there's the there's the marriage of spirit and flesh right there.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah right right it's got a it's built on humanity but also the spirit wow in and through humanity.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Dude so like the journey this is a chapter in your book and you're welcome I'll give you the process of Peter's importance and purpose to that whole thing yeah that process didn't Peter never would have predicted the process yeah to actually fulfill his part in in Jesus' mission.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent a hundred percent like yes to the purpose yes to the mission yeah as soon as Peter tried to make it work yeah it trouble started.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah absolutely and I think the the funny thing the funny thing is is that we can read these accounts uh in the gospels and then obviously the the New Testament and then even know right historically what what history says happens to Peter right and so we can we re read all of this and we we can say oh that was them they're somehow super Christians and elevate them beyond how we see ourselves.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: Right and so as opposed to fellow humans as as opposed to like we can still look at I can still read Peter's you know putting his foot in his mouth you know uh going off cutting a cutting an ear off like he or you know denying Christ all of these things I can read Peter's successes and failures and I can go yet he's way better than I am right which Jesus chose him yeah like yeah like exactly I'm reading it right and I can go and so and so like that that like we can we can do that in our brains yeah the right the I mean but ultimate ultimately we're not we're not different than Peter.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: We're still human we're still we're still invited into the purpose the purposes and the plans yeah of God over his creation we're invited to participate we're chosen he's chosen us like and we I think that's the maybe maybe that's uh a place where we can start to to you know maybe land the plane a little bit but I just think like what does it mean to be chosen that God looks at you and me and goes you right right and I think I think in the in the sort of this meandering narrative of a conversation talking about importance and value we have to address the fact of what does it mean to be chosen and what it does to you and me when we actually like we can know like again like we know what it's like you know you're like uh immediately the you know the school the playground scenario where you're picking teams right and we know you you may know what it's like to be chosen first and you know you may know what that it's like to be like chosen who's who's gonna take this guy this guy so but let's let's up that a notch and say that we know we like again look maybe not up in a notch let's address the fact that if you're chosen in that lineup to be on a team you immediately start to believe how valuable you are yes by the simple choice yeah right yeah that's true you start that's what that's what that's what that is a message to your heart it sends a message to your heart yeah I'm important to this team yeah right right and so so so the so the reality is is that when Jesus chooses you he's speaking value In your life.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: Now, you know, again, like the I think that part is true.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously, he's designed it to do this with us, right?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: And again, it's his performance in and through us, like to accomplish impossible eternal things.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I think let's just sit with the fact that and maybe because I guess we can only know we are chosen.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, our head can know that we're chosen, you know, because we know the right answer.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: We know the Sunday school makes sense.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, yep.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_04: According to the Word of God.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: We can only believe that we're chosen by the Spirit.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like the Holy Spirit has to communicate our chosenness to our spirits.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: So that so we can only start to believe our value.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like we can't, again, with a lot of things, like we can't talk ourselves into these things.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_04: But the Holy Spirit will talk to us about our value.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I just was thinking about, I was just thinking about like those moments in, you know, I've there's many moments throughout my life that I'm sure plenty that I've forgotten where, you know, but the the one that comes to mind is just from a freedom prayer session.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, uh so highly recommended.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_04: But in that mo in the moment that I had in that freedom prayer session, the how I heard God communicated so much to me and what he said to me.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: Communicated that I was valued.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_04: That I was chosen and that he, you know, he loves me, and there is purpose for me ultimately from that place.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so I I wonder, I wonder then, I think it's she's okay, like I wonder then, like maybe this is a thing where we just because I think I think what sums up is sums up this conversation is value importance from uh from a heavenly perspective, right, comes from the fact that God has chosen us.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: I wonder, I don't know, like seem it seems to me like like there's design, there's an intent, which can feel which is true, but sometimes it's a little more transactional.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: But the choke but the choosing is relational.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: So we have purpose, but God has chosen us.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, God, God has looked at every person and has said, I want you.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm and not, I mean, obviously, not only that, but I'm actually gonna make the way, right?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: Again, back to the cross.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_04: But ultimately, like so I just say maybe this is just a place where we can just say, Holy Spirit, help us see what it what that means to be chosen by God.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right, yeah.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like I've chosen you like to do, you know, to bear to bear much fruit, right?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_04: To we have been chosen to come into uh our original design.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, just I don't know, like uh Is it uh is it my is it I think it's your turn.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's your turn.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering if we could if we could pray that and ask the Holy Spirit together, all of us together, that that we would that He would speak to our hearts.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah about this about this very thing.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll just lay down, we'll lay down our striving of trying to figure it out and say, Holy Spirit, speak to my heart about what it means that that you've chosen us.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's pray.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's pray.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, God, we come before you.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: You've turned this conversation into something very sacred, and we just say, Thank you, God.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we we just come before you holding holding before holding our hands out before you with our in a sense, if we could, like our heart in our hands, and we just say, Holy Spirit, here's our hearts.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Would you speak to our hearts about this truth that that you've chosen us?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh from you from heaven's perspective on this whole thing of importance and purpose and being chosen by as people, um we need you, Holy Spirit, to speak to our hearts.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you speak to our hearts, the truth, healing comes.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so we just we just come saying, uh, heal our hearts, speak to our hearts today.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Calm the wrestling.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and I guess we kind of come, I think we kind of come like the apostle Peter, like he did a lot of wrestling throughout his story of trying to grapple with the fact that you called him Jesus and told him he would become a rock and um upon which you would build the church and all those things, Lord, he had quite a journey in.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: I believe you spoke to Peter's heart.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we ask in the same way, would you speak to our hearts?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Pray for all of our friends who are listening right now, just speak healing to them as you come and speak to their hearts about their importance because they're chosen.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: God, we just all just collectively, we lay down our trying to figure it out and striving to make it work.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Say, God, would you do uh a sign and a wonder in our lives of speaking to hearts?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Change our lives as you speak to our hearts about our chosenness before you.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad personally that you understand it.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to figure it all out, God.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you that you understand all of this, how it works.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: We just say thank you.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for making us for your purposes, and we are yours in Jesus' name.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a wrap on this episode.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_04: Until next time.