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Strictly Come Hamster - Season Four (featuring Mark Donaldson & Toby Hadoke) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Professor. Yes.
• 0:02
  Even supposing you succeeded. Who know what will happen?
• 0:07
  Don't you? You tell me doctor.
• 0:11
  But the water will be converted into superheated steam, the
• 0:14
  pressure will grow and track. The crust of the earth, destroy
• 0:19
  all life, maybe even blow the planet apart.
• 0:22
  Yes, and isolate Redeemed by promise to lift.
• 0:25
  I'd love this from the sea. Lift it to the sky.
• 0:30
  Would be magnificent. Yes.
• 0:40
  Well, why do you want to blow up the world?
• 0:44
  Why You are scientists. Ask me.
• 0:47
  Why? Your Chief met my daughter.
• 0:52
  The destruction of the world. Scientists dream of supreme
• 0:56
  power. You're just a stupid peasant.
• 1:34
  You can stay here and guard your precious ring.
• 1:39
  Welcome back to Strictly, Come hamster or as my other half
• 1:44
  recoil it earlier today when he realized that two stories from
• 1:48
  season 4, were not gonna be appearing today.
• 1:50
  Rod has fucked it up again. My name is Joe Fort and rolled
• 1:56
  you fucked it up. Again.
• 1:57
  I I'm told regular usually by Fraser Gregory usually leads the
• 2:01
  leads the chance for why have you spent them up like that?
• 2:04
  He's incandescent down there. I think he's gonna stop it in
• 2:08
  outside your house. If you don't start doing this
• 2:09
  properly, remember, he just got a full chronology section in our
• 2:13
  big finish. Yeah, no trees to build this
• 2:16
  enormous sort of library, and chronology, a big finish.
• 2:20
  So, he's pretty serious about it.
• 2:22
  I know, I'm worried. Now, I'm getting, how are you?
• 2:28
  I'm very well, how are you? I've been binge watching season
• 2:32
  4 episodes of Doctor Who today and I'll place to say it was
• 2:36
  delightful. Excellent.
• 2:38
  In fact you could almost call it gay as they say in the macro
• 2:40
  Tower gay and cheerful. I absolutely.
• 2:43
  Well we're in for a lot of fun tonight as we explore the first
• 2:47
  seven Charlton stories that make up the back end of season 4,
• 2:51
  because we all do love our back end.
• 2:53
  But look these seven stories are probably the most important to
• 2:57
  the show's history as they could be in the Final End.
• 2:59
  Not just of the dialects but actually if the whole show
• 3:02
  itself, if it hadn't succeeded, so surely they're going to load
• 3:07
  this season, with real heavy weights, lots of variety, lots
• 3:10
  of originality. Well, 49% of the episode we're
• 3:16
  going to be discussing tonight feature.
• 3:17
  Either Daleks or Cybermen. And elsewhere, we have an
• 3:22
  exactly got an A-list roll, call halfway with fish people
• 3:24
  chameleons and very static macro.
• 3:28
  So four of these seven stories are effectively bases or
• 3:31
  colonized on The Siege, we've got a historical that's so
• 3:34
  popular. They don't make another one for
• 3:35
  15 years. We've got one off writers, like
• 3:38
  David Ellis and Jeffrey ohm, and we say goodbye to Ian Stuart
• 3:42
  black and Cherry David's subscripted.
• 3:43
  So, none of this is sounding. Terribly promising, is it guys?
• 3:46
  But we're going to sort out how successful this is.
• 3:50
  And to help us sort out. Our Molly, the highlands wash a
• 3:54
  woman from Molly, the English housemate, remember these, These
• 3:58
  are the enlightened times of the 60s unless you're called Molly.
• 4:01
  We're joined by two very special guests.
• 4:04
  One is fandoms. Most beloved Optimist who on his
• 4:08
  first strictly championed everything he could, and then on
• 4:11
  repeat visit throughout half of season one.
• 4:14
  So tonight we're expecting him to see everything and do a full
• 4:17
  Lavigne on us. Yes, we're also delighted to be
• 4:21
  joined by well, you know what he is, not what he is.
• 4:24
  Not whose biggest piece of missed.
• 4:26
  He's got a podcast, a specifically about throwing away
• 4:29
  the things you don't like about. Oh, I love it.
• 4:34
  You could never say that, Scotsman would have a podcast,
• 4:38
  that's all about drinking and shouting abuse of people would
• 4:41
  those stereotypes. And we might come back to that
• 4:45
  later tonight as well. Between us, we're going to
• 4:48
  decide which story from these seven is going to lift.
• 4:50
  That location glitter ball and which is going to be left to The
• 4:53
  Tender Mercies of the Rough and Tumble machine, which show and I
• 4:56
  have altered slightly so that it's gonna tone a wider.
• 5:00
  Variety of your muscles. You can see it.
• 5:03
  Oh, these days. Let us welcome tonight's guest.
• 5:07
  Toby, would you like to you hardly need?
• 5:10
  Introduce yourself to our listeners but please, please say
• 5:14
  hello. Hello, my name is Toby.
• 5:16
  Hey Doc, I like CDs ice, cream and Doctor Who, and I, yeah, I I
• 5:22
  appear probably too frequently on Doctor Who the physical
• 5:27
  media, but my day job is being a stand-up comedian and an actor.
• 5:31
  And and I'll always answer the, the strictly Claxton because I
• 5:40
  have fun listening and more fun. Partaking, as I see it, as my
• 5:45
  job to ensure that Injustice is like Carnival of monsters coming
• 5:50
  bottom, don't tap and that's such an injustice is going to be
• 5:53
  a Netflix series about it. So I'm here to protect to
• 5:59
  protect Doctor Who's crown jewels but I'm going to try and
• 6:04
  do what I did last. Time.
• 6:05
  I don't want to, but I feel I should just because of the, the
• 6:09
  nature of the format, I would happily.
• 6:12
  So if I am rude about anything, I would happily save everything
• 6:16
  because it's old Doctor Who it's black and white.
• 6:18
  It's classic Who warms my cockles, but I think to make the
• 6:22
  game more interesting because as a listener I do I think prefer
• 6:26
  it when I hear some people sort of butting heads or at least say
• 6:29
  and it not being a complete loving, I have decided to try to
• 6:33
  jettison. It's an odd number of stories
• 6:37
  but but sort of 50% of the Season just in the interests of
• 6:42
  of keeping things. Interesting, how do you do 50%
• 6:47
  of 7 stories? Well, if it had been a bad
• 6:49
  season, I'd have got rid of four, but I think I'll, I'll
• 6:53
  just managed to get rid of three.
• 6:54
  Okay. Can I say the first time you
• 6:56
  came on? This was when we started was
• 6:58
  now. Very first episode went out on
• 7:00
  Christmas day, which feels like about 10 years ago now, but it
• 7:02
  was in fact like, yeah, I was a bad choice for that Joe, you
• 7:05
  shouldn't have asked me to do well.
• 7:06
  I went back and listened to it, so we're all so polite with each
• 7:09
  other, you know, it's like, we're all in therapy together or
• 7:12
  something. I didn't know I was I didn't
• 7:14
  really know what I was talking about.
• 7:15
  I yes, I I only said yes, because it was you, it was
• 7:19
  they're not, they're not, they're not episode that I you
• 7:22
  know, particularly gendered up on.
• 7:24
  In fact, the one I did get rid of I then went and watched again
• 7:27
  out, of course and realized it was one of the best Doctor Who
• 7:31
  episodes of recent years. So what that, what the hell did
• 7:35
  I know? Already the recordings in the
• 7:37
  can you do an AI Recreation of it?
• 7:40
  I've since done it for my podcast and it's one of the few
• 7:43
  where I've actually won by two by choosing the same number of
• 7:47
  favorite things, as my guest, Jason Thompson.
• 7:49
  So I feel I've redeemed myself, with the Christmas scrap, I had
• 7:52
  a chance to do it all over again, and it had a happy
• 7:55
  ending, so appetite for that. Yeah, the second time you came
• 7:59
  on, well, things have changed in that time.
• 8:02
  We have a lot more relaxed. The swearing had come in Rod who
• 8:06
  was a very stickler for the format at the start.
• 8:08
  All gone out the window that point and we had a gay old time
• 8:12
  talking about season one. So I dread to think where we're
• 8:14
  going to end up today. At the title in the year.
• 8:18
  Well, with with a dose of the crabs on our final end.
• 8:24
  Quick move on to Mark quickly and leading from Krabs straight
• 8:29
  to Mark, Mark. Hello, welcome back to what an
• 8:32
  introduction. Hello, yes, it's me, Mark
• 8:36
  Donaldson I'm nowhere near as well known as Toby head up but I
• 8:40
  do co-hosts on the time, lash with my good friend, Ben vert, I
• 8:43
  am, I guess the talking Scotsman for that.
• 8:47
  I'm Not Highlander, I'm a lowlander but you know, they're
• 8:51
  expecting. Lots of Highlanders Love Tonight
• 8:52
  from you. I'm not entirely sure I was
• 8:54
  gonna Islanders in the Highlanders.
• 8:56
  So that's probably fine. Educating us on Scottish history
• 8:59
  tonight. Basically what I've turned up
• 9:02
  no, but I am going to be very much for us.
• 9:05
  Oh, cheers. You know, these things can't go
• 9:11
  on for about four hours, you know.
• 9:12
  You've got to be pissed by the end.
• 9:13
  Like, I'll wait to see what you're coming.
• 9:14
  It's okay, yeah, it'll be fine. Okay.
• 9:18
  Should you need a loop, right, we do it.
• 9:24
  All right. Thank you for sharing that.
• 9:27
  So before we get to the stores themselves, I mean, Toby, you've
• 9:31
  already told us kind of General feelings about these collection
• 9:34
  of stories. So anything else you'd like to
• 9:36
  add without, you know, giving away any spoilers from like
• 9:39
  wrong Well I I guess one of the many weaknesses I will bring to
• 9:44
  my assessments of these stories. Is that a lot of these that that
• 9:49
  work so brilliantly. When I listened to them with
• 9:51
  people, you know diving deep into the stories in the merits
• 9:53
  or otherwise with me I can never escape from the elements of
• 9:56
  archeology when it comes to this period of the show that much of
• 9:59
  the appeal. For me of season 3 and 4 which I
• 10:03
  find more fascinating than say season 2 because if I want to I
• 10:07
  can just go and watch. Most of season 2 is is, you
• 10:10
  know, I will go back and look at the scripts and I will go back
• 10:12
  and look at production files and things like that because because
• 10:15
  the archeology it's perhaps more interesting than some of the
• 10:19
  stories and I'm gonna, I've got to try and divorce myself from
• 10:22
  that and a few personal things as well.
• 10:24
  Because again, I've listened some of these were, somebody
• 10:26
  will say, oh, yes, well, this is a very personal story for me.
• 10:29
  So, I will have to put it through because my, my puppy
• 10:32
  hurt her poor and I watched this episode, it made me happy.
• 10:35
  So I'm putting underworld through and getting rid of
• 10:37
  Genesis of the darling. This is how you.
• 10:42
  So I've got to try and be objective but but there will be
• 10:49
  a big personal thing when I talk about one of the stories that I
• 10:52
  think are really should get, but after you fascinating period,
• 10:55
  but I take out my violin and play as you're telling her, it's
• 11:00
  not a sad one, but it's it's just important landmark in my in
• 11:05
  my viewing that probably skews my opinion of a story.
• 11:07
  I'm gonna try and listen to my head, not my heart.
• 11:10
  Um, but it's a fascinating period of the show's.
• 11:13
  History made more fascinating by the fact that we can't see it.
• 11:16
  I mean, I do maintain that I would probably love Doctor Who
• 11:20
  less. Were it all there, there is
• 11:23
  something about that, endless Fascination we have and that
• 11:26
  yearning that we have. I mean I can't walk the dog
• 11:29
  without imagining. Okay.
• 11:30
  Oh there's a car boot sale in the park tomorrow and there's 12
• 11:33
  film cans and and which ones are, you know, but two of them
• 11:37
  from episodes that exists. Yeah.
• 11:38
  I set myself a weird parameters. It's like, yes, your fantasies
• 11:41
  have to have various various limitations to them.
• 11:45
  I just mean whenever you're free market or a car boots out,
• 11:50
  anything at all, it's all of our first balls.
• 11:53
  It could be here but I haven't ruined my fantasies with
• 11:56
  practicality because I go oh but I'd have to go back and get
• 11:58
  something to carry them home and what my mother and somebody else
• 12:01
  turned up and took two away as a.
• 12:03
  It's your fantasy Toby. You can just carry them all.
• 12:06
  I mean, he was likely to be able to lift up 12 billion since you
• 12:10
  are to find them. But so, like Atlas himself, all
• 12:17
  seven episodes of Marco Polo. But And I knew of a lot of these
• 12:23
  stories before I knew that they were missing, of course, or I'd
• 12:25
  read their Doctor Who archives in drum magazine or seen the
• 12:28
  pictures or whatever. And and lest we forget, you
• 12:32
  know, when I was a Time season 5 was the the least represented
• 12:35
  season of Doctor Who. But now it falls to this one,
• 12:39
  this is the one that we have the the least of and and and and
• 12:42
  seems to be the one that is sort of at least rumored to have
• 12:46
  anything out there. But then again, if wishes were
• 12:48
  horses, you know, rumors aren't worth anything, if they don't
• 12:51
  come to fruition, but it's, it seems to me now that this is
• 12:54
  the, the really sort of obscure period of the show even though
• 12:59
  we do have the telephone so it's it's fascinating, it's a lot of
• 13:03
  its charm is due to the fact that this, they do things that
• 13:07
  they will never do again. Or there's there's little Grace
• 13:10
  notes that seem quite strange. Now that we know the whole
• 13:13
  history of the show. So yeah, I think it's a
• 13:15
  fascinating period. I loved every minute of it
• 13:18
  because of when it's from and what it represents but I
• 13:21
  wouldn't Say. It's it's perfect by any means
• 13:24
  but I'm I I don't think doctor who needs to be for me to love
• 13:27
  it. Yes, Mark.
• 13:30
  Says before. Yeah.
• 13:32
  I mean obviously. It's it's mostly missing.
• 13:35
  So um it's not a series that I'm kind of familiar with in that
• 13:40
  sense that you know when you get the Blu-ray box sets, you can
• 13:42
  you can if you saw design, if you've got the time, you can
• 13:45
  work your way through a season of Knoxville in context and kind
• 13:47
  of see You know how that sort of series develops in terms of
• 13:51
  themes were as obviously when I was growing up you get whatever
• 13:54
  VHS you can from the shops or whatever's on UK gold.
• 13:58
  You don't necessarily build up a bigger picture so it's been
• 14:01
  quite interesting to do series 4 for this.
• 14:05
  And kind of look at it as I kind of well what we've got it and
• 14:09
  because I think more than any period of the show before it.
• 14:13
  It feels like it's drawing from quite contemporary sources,
• 14:17
  like, in terms of like this, this sort of stories, it's
• 14:19
  telling. So like there's bits of James
• 14:21
  Bond in here, there is purely by coincidence.
• 14:25
  There's elements of Star Trek and the Prisoner, which
• 14:29
  obviously, like President wouldn't start until much later
• 14:31
  that year and Star Trek wouldn't start in the UK until 1969 after
• 14:36
  the war games, but there are touching on very similar grounds
• 14:40
  in some of these stories, which is really interesting and I love
• 14:44
  this, second doctor in Jamie, I think possibly my favorite sort
• 14:49
  of classic doctor and companion parents so it's really fun to
• 14:53
  see. Them develop and you can see I
• 14:57
  mean all the most of its animation or tell us that
• 14:59
  depending on how you watch it. Just in the episode that we do
• 15:02
  have from like underwater Menace through to evil of the Daleks.
• 15:06
  You can see those two actors. Like really kind of warming to
• 15:10
  each other and starting to kind of really sort of hone.
• 15:14
  This really lovely comedy double act and so it's been a real kind
• 15:19
  of joy to watch all of this but I think there will be one or
• 15:24
  maybe two undecided on that. I will maybe just because it's
• 15:29
  not all good. But then, Perfection is boring.
• 15:32
  You want you know you want things that are slightly Rough
• 15:36
  Around the Edges, right talking about Rough Around the Edges.
• 15:38
  Joe, what do you think of there's one story this year that
• 15:42
  absolutely defies. Perfection is boring, right?
• 15:45
  We all know what it is. We're not there yet.
• 15:47
  Um. Oh Toby, what's up?
• 15:49
  No, no, I'm I was leading in to see what whether you're going to
• 15:53
  go any further. Oh, when we get to the
• 15:55
  tantalizing us for later in what story he was talking about.
• 15:59
  I am very pleased that the animators have been busy because
• 16:05
  I'm one of those naughty people that were to see some free in my
• 16:08
  marathon and then skip all the way across to see some six and
• 16:14
  start, you know. So I basically watch all the
• 16:15
  stuff that was moving. I really loved the animations
• 16:18
  they've done for this season and I'm so pleased, I can actually
• 16:21
  watched on you. I play now, isn't it?
• 16:23
  Yeah, I can watch the ball of this season really interesting
• 16:28
  year that I when I thought about it as a whole I was like, yeah,
• 16:30
  I can't really put A pin in and say that's that year.
• 16:32
  Because there's no two stories doing the same thing.
• 16:35
  This year, I don't think it's all so diverse, but it's a show
• 16:39
  in transition. I think we're sort of moving
• 16:41
  away from the, we can do anything from the William
• 16:44
  hardtner. Where are in to the, we're gonna
• 16:47
  have a formula that works in season 5 and you can sort of
• 16:50
  feel that transition kicking in. But there's lots of interesting
• 16:54
  experiments this year, some successful, some less so and I'm
• 16:58
  sure we're going to bail it out. I do think it's less
• 17:01
  intellectual because we recently did season three and that was
• 17:05
  such a smart year so it's less. There's less smart this season.
• 17:11
  But it's more Dynamic and it's more entertaining to watch I
• 17:14
  think as a whole. So it's a trade-off but I think
• 17:17
  is a trade-off that meant Doctor Who has got a future.
• 17:19
  So yeah, I realize I love watching these today.
• 17:23
  Yeah, I missed out. I really enjoy this series too.
• 17:25
  Although my one, I suppose the one bug bail.
• 17:28
  The one person I would highlight for horse of the Year award on
• 17:32
  this one, would probably be Jerry davidus I'm not
• 17:36
  necessarily sure, Jerry Davis makes the best.
• 17:40
  Script editor, not as a novelization of the moon base.
• 17:43
  Rolled. I absolutely loved it up as a
• 17:46
  kid. Yeah, absolutely adorable.
• 17:47
  That's a script editor on. A commissioner of scripts.
• 17:51
  I'm not sure he's necessarily got his finger on the pulse
• 17:55
  quite as much as some of his contemporaries.
• 17:57
  Joe, you just mentioned it, there about, you know, three
• 17:59
  being much smarter. And I think we've lost a little
• 18:02
  bit of that here. We're going more for the common
• 18:05
  denominator, a little bit, the action adventure and they pull a
• 18:08
  lot of it off. And there is some absolutely
• 18:10
  great stuff in here. But I think just in terms of
• 18:13
  consistency and character development, they're not really
• 18:16
  his meteor and I don't think he's necessarily got his eye on
• 18:20
  the ball. On certain aspects of we are
• 18:23
  lingering around. Four to five million viewers
• 18:25
  Force again to see season 3 and we are topping eight million
• 18:29
  viewers regularly in season 4. Absolutely.
• 18:32
  So there is I'm not gonna say this bad stuff in there.
• 18:35
  I love this. All I ironically I've done a
• 18:37
  turnaround this time watching this.
• 18:38
  I haven't gone to the animation's.
• 18:40
  I've been watching apps. God help me.
• 18:42
  I've actually found that more enjoyable.
• 18:45
  That's not the animations. So they do a marvelous job.
• 18:48
  I've really enjoyed it. I wanted to get Better feel for
• 18:52
  what was actually there. So I've been watching it through
• 18:54
  this time with the talents having seen all the animations
• 18:57
  and you know I just found out really enjoyable experience.
• 19:00
  Yeah, right. Like I know they're not spot-on.
• 19:04
  I know they take Liberties but that made no animations are
• 19:08
  good. They are, they are excellent.
• 19:10
  I'm not gonna knock them at all. Yeah, I did have a little less
• 19:13
  moment today when I was watching an episode of the macroptera and
• 19:16
  the Rough and Tumble scene came out, and I'd forgotten it wasn't
• 19:18
  there and I was like shaking my fists, like Brian blessed, you
• 19:22
  know, but I understand why do you think's happened.
• 19:25
  No, I mean, I work on the Range and I thought that was a bad
• 19:28
  idea but I only found out about it.
• 19:30
  They did not that they've listened to me anyway.
• 19:31
  But I yeah, I, you know, know your audience and your audience
• 19:37
  want the whole thing. I was watching the macroptera
• 19:41
  and animation, I think, you know, they've done the Bold
• 19:44
  thing, haven't they of going? Well we're not gonna make this
• 19:46
  like you know studio will make the crabs giant and there's the
• 19:50
  brilliant bit where Polly gets grabbed by foot and hoisted in
• 19:52
  the air line is it's got my foot.
• 19:55
  It's like yeah. So I I think it's really good
• 20:00
  and and I think if you're going to do the animations, actually,
• 20:02
  you know, you can't recreate, you know, multi-camera prose
• 20:08
  arched stuff you could, but it's it's not, it's not use and
• 20:12
  animation, so it's most advantage.
• 20:14
  And of course, you got the telecoms.
• 20:15
  And, of course, now With these dazzling, new AI regenerations
• 20:21
  that are coming out. I'm sure there'll be a version
• 20:23
  of the macroptera in which Davy Jones from the Monkees in Art of
• 20:29
  a lot because the cause of a giant Lobster.
• 20:30
  So I will look look forward to that.
• 20:33
  Whenever whenever that happens, I just I just show you how good
• 20:38
  those animations are. Don't like in contrast Oh dear.
• 20:43
  Alright, let us know such thing as an accurate.
• 20:46
  Let's go to our first batch of listeners comments.
• 20:53
  We've got a lot of these on the first two comments actually are
• 20:56
  four from individuals who are actually there at the time which
• 20:59
  is nice. Toby, do you want to kick us off
• 21:02
  with batch one? So the first comment is from Ian
• 21:07
  Clark. And as you say, this is a, this
• 21:09
  is a first-hand account, Ian says, having watched them at the
• 21:13
  time. I was eight.
• 21:14
  It must mean something that I can only really remember
• 21:17
  anything from power and macra oh and moon base with the shock of
• 21:23
  the Cybermen reveal, the march of the Cybermen across the moon
• 21:26
  shown again, on Blue Peter, the following Monday and the
• 21:29
  scariest part black veins on the infected, thanks Ian.
• 21:35
  A zones of thought, magnificent name, and says magnificent.
• 21:42
  I remember para being thrilling, a stunning debut.
• 21:44
  How many dialects were there? Set of till Dennis buying macron
• 21:48
  was Nightmare terrifying because your mind hinted in the horror
• 21:52
  in the dark evil was mesmerizing Cannot I was really shocked
• 21:56
  early. You know when I was watching
• 21:57
  Power at dialects episode 6 I had sent you all a message and I
• 22:00
  just go my God it's her bloody massacre Archer forgotten.
• 22:03
  Yeah he was back in season 3 again.
• 22:08
  And Charlie Barnes says, one of the most important errors
• 22:13
  because it's success meant another five decades Jolly
• 22:17
  adventures with a wonderfully anarchic doctor and some
• 22:20
  gorgeous companions. Also proof that the Daleks could
• 22:24
  survive without Terry Nation. Dublin.
• 22:28
  Fox 98 says the two Whittaker dialect stories are somewhat
• 22:33
  overrated but I'd still give them both the nine.
• 22:36
  So not that overrated then just play a point and aside from
• 22:43
  those it's a very mixed bag. Moon base is the right winner
• 22:46
  for me. Interesting, we're in truly
• 22:48
  becomes the greatest doctor. That is such a doctor who rating
• 22:52
  scale, isn't it slowly over right now, you know I've got
• 22:57
  I've got two nine out of 10 Series so let me just point out
• 22:59
  the, you know that, you know, let me point out that I'm not
• 23:04
  entirely satisfied with them how this one.
• 23:08
  Not the nine. Yeah.
• 23:10
  The thing the fascinated about me about these comments will get
• 23:13
  through and I'm sure this will crop up a few times.
• 23:15
  The number of people that said this is the moment, the trout
• 23:18
  and became the doctor. Oh everybody's got completely
• 23:21
  different points which I absolutely.
• 23:26
  Like that Meme during the hopefully one and only Donald
• 23:30
  Trump presidency. But it would be every sort of,
• 23:33
  every horrendous thing, he did a people like this was the moment
• 23:36
  that Donald Trump finally became president what a comparison for
• 23:41
  four years. Two, broad and two deep
• 23:46
  podcasts, says, the last experimenting season of classic.
• 23:50
  Who The creation of Base Under Siege, a new main actor, Daleks
• 23:56
  with a different life to them and more contemporary stories
• 24:00
  than ever. Though less said of the Highland
• 24:04
  actions the better, you know you think that two broad and two
• 24:08
  deep would be a podcast about the new adventures.
• 24:11
  Wouldn't you well go looking at AI?
• 24:13
  That's All I'm gonna say. Mark over to you know what is
• 24:17
  Kevin Bianca says the stories are all fair to middling been is
• 24:26
  under used especially when Jamie comes aboard and not the best
• 24:29
  treatment season, but not just thinking John Arnold says Lloyd
• 24:33
  and Davis have figured out they want to do pulp SF but not quite
• 24:38
  how they want to do it. Leads to plenty of variety with
• 24:42
  trouton's energy and instinctive, funniness, giving
• 24:45
  the serious a proper adrenaline shot.
• 24:49
  Paul Quinn says, a really interesting run in terms of the
• 24:53
  range of authors and types of stories.
• 24:55
  It's obviously a transitional phase following the traumas of
• 24:58
  season 3 and the prolonged out of Hartnell.
• 25:01
  But there's a verb style and vigor about the new Dan
• 25:06
  Hollingsworth, says a great fun, run of stories where the show is
• 25:11
  trying new things before it settles into base Under Siege
• 25:15
  mode, trout and delights from the start and the addition of
• 25:18
  Jamie works. Well, but it means, we have too
• 25:20
  many regulars. How familiar?
• 25:24
  Michael storm. I believe she was upstairs.
• 25:28
  That's the one yeah. Says that finds his footing from
• 25:33
  his Machiavellian machinations to his part python-esque art.
• 25:36
  Silent movie clone. Is this, why is your arch
• 25:39
  nemesis know? Just, that's why is my name.
• 25:45
  We have a solid. So that again, we have a solid
• 25:51
  Tardis crew, Such a Pity, the Ben and Holly never got their
• 25:54
  fair share of the line. Like you can hide away on
• 25:57
  Twitter, Michael storm, but I will find you one day.
• 26:01
  And side heart says, varied stories.
• 26:03
  Not all of which quite come off, but they're trying to work out
• 26:06
  how the new Doctor Who works power and evil, are tremendous,
• 26:10
  bookends with Moonbase, and macra being thrilling stories in
• 26:14
  between the regulus are all truly magnificent.
• 26:18
  And then finally Deb succinctly says, what's that thing is a bad
• 26:23
  throat and this is probably my favorite season.
• 26:26
  Yes. On that.
• 26:28
  Positive note, let's get into it.
• 26:30
  Toby pick your story from all seven and Champion, or condemn
• 26:35
  it. Well, I'm gonna start with a
• 26:38
  little teaser. I have come into this, not
• 26:40
  knowing, which story I want to win.
• 26:43
  I'm really, really torn. And so I'm Gonna Leave the heavy
• 26:49
  lifting on the aforementioned bookends to others.
• 26:54
  And I shall delve into the more obscure nooks and crannies of
• 26:59
  season 4 to begin. And also I wonder if I should I
• 27:04
  yeah I want to start with a championing.
• 27:07
  I think I never feel like I don't mind, you know, I don't
• 27:10
  mind kicking something when it's down but I don't want to deliver
• 27:12
  the blow that together. Get them to the floor.
• 27:15
  I'm that much of a coward. So so let me I'll I think I will
• 27:20
  do something that maybe others might not rush to do and that is
• 27:24
  I am going to fly the flag. I'm going to I'm going to Not be
• 27:33
  an anonymous supporter, but I'm going to be an out-and-out.
• 27:37
  I'm gonna come face-to-face with the faceless ones and Champion
• 27:41
  it. As I think a sort of neglected,
• 27:44
  an underrated gem not without its faults.
• 27:48
  But and and I think the form is not to just do an unscripted
• 27:53
  monologue with poor metaphors and unnecessary Segways that
• 27:59
  don't go anywhere, but to choose.
• 28:00
  So I'll break the habit of a lifetime.
• 28:02
  What I said, because we're supposed to choose.
• 28:07
  I don't think I ever have on this podcast before and of
• 28:11
  course I then listened to it and go.
• 28:12
  That's what you're supposed to do.
• 28:13
  Why do I never do that? So I will try and choose three
• 28:17
  things about The Faceless ones and do this damn well properly.
• 28:23
  So, the only Road does that normally It's funny because my
• 28:29
  my introduction to the place was not not illustrious because my
• 28:34
  first bootleg video was the collection of the orphaned
• 28:37
  trout. And so the first episode I saw
• 28:40
  in in that way, was the underwater Menace, part 3.
• 28:43
  And I'll talk about that when we get to that story.
• 28:46
  But it was like, I'd stumbled across the Dead Sea Scrolls.
• 28:48
  You know, even though I know and the second one, and of course,
• 28:51
  and I was amazed. And then of course, the novelty
• 28:54
  immediately wears off. So, I watched the second episode
• 28:56
  on the tape, which is the faceless ones one.
• 28:58
  And I remember my brother walking in just the point that
• 29:02
  inspector gascoigne is killed, and the gun is pointed at him
• 29:06
  and then he's on the floor. And my brother goes that was
• 29:09
  crap. They've just, they've just cut
• 29:11
  to him being on the floor and of course, because I didn't realize
• 29:13
  at the time. I mean, it's we we actually have
• 29:15
  two copies of the faceless ones. One of been returned to the
• 29:19
  archives or and one is an Australian copy.
• 29:22
  And that is what my copy was was from.
• 29:26
  And so episode, one of the places ones is one of A very
• 29:29
  last episode. I saw properly.
• 29:31
  I didn't see a full version of it until it was released on VHS,
• 29:34
  which I believe was about six months ago, but apparently
• 29:37
  people will be telling me it's 20 years, but I wouldn't believe
• 29:40
  that because it only happened yesterday and I can't be that
• 29:45
  old. But so, and I remember the
• 29:49
  reinsertion of those few small moments, it's largely hands
• 29:55
  gnarled hands of a faceless one in that episode and the death of
• 29:59
  Inspector and, you know, his face lights up.
• 30:01
  They're not very robust, the Australians, are they?
• 30:03
  I mean, they have spiders in their toilets and they can't
• 30:07
  they can't handle somebody going.
• 30:09
  Yeah, I mean grow up a pair Australia anyway, so so and it
• 30:16
  was I was amazed at what a difference, those little
• 30:19
  snatched shots of the Nerds hands made because it is a story
• 30:24
  that has a minimalist menace to it.
• 30:28
  And so, my first thing is I suppose that encapsulates all of
• 30:34
  that is no music and what it instead has it has is this
• 30:38
  really weird sort of Ambient sound?
• 30:41
  And this, this sort of pulsing sort of undulating pastry?
• 30:46
  I think it's got a couple of stock tracks, but it's largely
• 30:48
  sort of very sort of Moody underscore and it means That the
• 30:55
  story even though it has this contemporary setting does feel
• 30:59
  like it's a relation to what I love about the Hartnell era,
• 31:02
  which is that it's slightly weird.
• 31:04
  And and as Jerry Davis, who I think one of our correspondence
• 31:08
  was right, right. Quite right said, you know, goes
• 31:10
  into the more sort of pulpy SF and as we go into base Under
• 31:14
  Siege, I love a base Under Siege.
• 31:15
  It's my sort of template for an exciting Doctor Who story.
• 31:17
  But I do love that Doctor Who of the 60s throws us.
• 31:21
  This weird curve balls and stories that should just look
• 31:24
  like another unit story say or a precursor of unit story.
• 31:27
  Actually have this weird almost abstract sort of body horror
• 31:32
  type thing going on and that's partially to do because with
• 31:36
  with the fact that the music is is a shed in favor of this sort
• 31:39
  of slightly Moody tents you know, underscore and I think
• 31:46
  that ties in with the way that it's directed as well.
• 31:49
  I think it has a slight sort of strangeness about it and isn't
• 31:54
  it? Typical that the two episodes of
• 31:56
  The Faceless ones that we have. We don't see the faceless of the
• 31:59
  faceless ones. The closest we get is the shock
• 32:01
  of shot of a back of one's head and I remember I'd read in
• 32:04
  Doctor Who magazine at the end of episode.
• 32:05
  One is you know that they take this guy into the medical unit
• 32:09
  and you see that he has no face and you do but only from behind
• 32:12
  and then and then you see one immediately and episode two but
• 32:16
  we don't have that then. Come episode three they're all
• 32:19
  gone into hiding again so that's right.
• 32:21
  Well isn't it? That's not well so scary and
• 32:25
  there that is going to be my second thing about the face.
• 32:28
  This one is that Again what a one of the joys of actually
• 32:33
  watching Doctor Who in bad quality was that you couldn't
• 32:36
  quite make out. What I I still don't know what
• 32:39
  some things in the ambassadors of death really look like
• 32:41
  because because I watched a lot of it in baguette and I know
• 32:44
  they've made it better every time since but and I was doing a
• 32:47
  podcast recently on ambassadors of death and one of the things
• 32:49
  that my correspondent said that they'd enjoyed about, it was the
• 32:53
  fact that it was slightly unreachable because it is
• 32:56
  slightly removed from us by sort of quality.
• 32:59
  And by the fact that we've never quite had it as as it should
• 33:02
  look and all of that. And the fact that it's sort of a
• 33:05
  slightly unknown story, in that sense, and I think the faceless
• 33:07
  ones has an element of that as well.
• 33:08
  It's not a story everybody because we had an episode of it
• 33:12
  and then another episode of it. It's not as mysterious to some
• 33:15
  of the Season three's so we're not sort of key to Del we sort
• 33:18
  of go oh we got a couple of that.
• 33:19
  But it still does have lots that unfamiliar about it and I think
• 33:23
  and for ages we didn't even have a picture.
• 33:25
  I remember the first time I saw a picture of a comedian.
• 33:28
  It was in one of the Doctor Who magazine Shows, I think.
• 33:31
  And I was like, where the hell is that come from?
• 33:32
  It was usually just troughton and as tire, that was, that was
• 33:35
  always the faceless ones picture.
• 33:37
  I look, we're at airport there, they're amazing.
• 33:39
  That's a very sexiest thing, isn't it?
• 33:41
  It's like, we've gone to a place.
• 33:42
  What about the monsters? Yeah, but look at the place.
• 33:44
  We're at we've got outside. We've gone through a place
• 33:47
  that's got different shaped vehicles.
• 33:48
  And, you know, Gatwick was the thing, you know, let's excited
• 33:53
  about the fact that set in an airport, but I think the
• 33:55
  chameleons are really interesting looking.
• 33:57
  I think it's a brilliant design. It's just simple, isn't it?
• 34:01
  It's just sort of mottled, sort of null latex.
• 34:04
  But I, I think monsters who were a sort of parody of the human
• 34:08
  form or always very interesting because there's a reminder of
• 34:11
  ourselves and that's how I always think a bit more alarming
• 34:13
  but it's little touches like the fact that they've got bandages
• 34:16
  and and it does have elements of that sort of The sort of
• 34:22
  clinical side of body horror where you have injections with
• 34:26
  syringes and you have bandages, and you have people in hospitals
• 34:30
  and that's all a bit sort of unnerving and creepy.
• 34:33
  So again it's really that I think the chameleons are creepy
• 34:36
  but then they have an extra element in that, you know, in
• 34:39
  the last episode. Or so you know that their plight
• 34:43
  is is Comes from. Actually, not the fact that
• 34:47
  they're creatures of Conquest, but their creatures who have a
• 34:51
  slightly sort of unfortunate backstory which leads to a
• 34:55
  conclusion. That is unusual and bold and
• 34:59
  more like Doctor Who as we understand it.
• 35:01
  Now now it doesn't quite work because of all the stories for
• 35:06
  this to happen with you'd want to slightly less and he's
• 35:08
  brilliant obvious villain and Captain blade.
• 35:11
  He's such a cold and nasty Doctor Who wants to the fact
• 35:14
  that trout and just goes. Oh but now I'll give you a thing
• 35:17
  and we'll cure it. Go, okay, then and you go but
• 35:20
  he's done such a good job up to that point of being a bad
• 35:23
  villain. That it's almost typical with
• 35:25
  Doctor Who that goes. Let's do an ending of the kind.
• 35:28
  We don't normally do but let's make it not work because because
• 35:33
  it doesn't work with the best will in the world.
• 35:35
  It comes out of nowhere and it's rather perfunctory done but I
• 35:39
  applaud the intent of trying to go.
• 35:42
  We're gonna make creatures that aren't all bad and we'll go for
• 35:45
  a resolution. that isn't a big explosion or a masculine or
• 35:49
  whatever and And it's typical that doctor who doesn't doesn't
• 35:53
  quite get it right the first time that it tries to do it.
• 35:56
  But I applaud the intent and, you know, it does Mark the debut
• 35:59
  of a very important voice of Doctor Who Malcolm Hulk, who
• 36:02
  will go on to do to coin a phrase, more of this sort of
• 36:05
  thing. And the final thing for me,
• 36:10
  well, I mean I beat tediously predictable, but I'm going to
• 36:14
  have to go for The the cast I think because Colin Gordon.
• 36:21
  I mean we don't make actors like Colin Gordon anymore and I think
• 36:25
  the fact that we don't is the reason why our civilization will
• 36:28
  ultimately collapse. Because I think he's just
• 36:31
  gorgeous, that sort of seething, man of authority with who's
• 36:36
  slightly perplexed by everything that goes on around him,
• 36:40
  terribly professional. But also rather testing, he's
• 36:44
  got he's gorgeous and he's got wonderful comic timing.
• 36:47
  He's a, he's a wonderful actor. Donald Pickering is is almost
• 36:51
  too good as Captain blade. I see Menace.
• 36:54
  He's absolutely terrific. I love the lovely actor in it.
• 36:57
  A lovely twinkly actor called Victor winding, who did so much
• 37:00
  outside of Doctor Who and he's very good, he could have played
• 37:03
  Spencer. The flunky who is the thickest
• 37:05
  person in the whole history of Doctor Who he's you know, he's
• 37:09
  the embodiment of I shall kill you all now but first I shall
• 37:12
  leave you with some keys. Well, I'm just gonna I'm gonna
• 37:17
  go. I mean, I could 10 minutes, I
• 37:19
  could watch you die for certain, but no, I'm I'm off and he gets
• 37:23
  cut and Captain blade spends the whole thing, calling him an
• 37:27
  idiot. But actually Victor winding
• 37:29
  plays, a very warmly and naturalistically, and is a
• 37:31
  lovely, lovely actor. And my favorite, Bernard K who I
• 37:35
  think is. Brilliant is inspector
• 37:38
  Crossland. And he does a, he does a
• 37:40
  brilliant bit before that. Brilliant part 3 Cliffhanger
• 37:43
  where suddenly there's nobody on the plane which I think is
• 37:45
  fantastic. And but he's because he's got a
• 37:49
  hang around in the play and then he's got a for some reason go
• 37:52
  and see what's happened to Captain blade, but it said, it's
• 37:54
  just sort of standing there and going on a bit bored.
• 37:56
  I'll go see, he does this thing where he gets his pipe out to
• 37:59
  smoke it, then it looks around and realizes that he's on a
• 38:01
  plane and he's not allowed to smoke the pipe.
• 38:03
  So then looks a bit embarrassed that he's done that.
• 38:05
  So then puts his pipe and then thinks well I'm a bit
• 38:07
  embarrassed now. So I know I'll go and see
• 38:09
  Captain blade and that's the sort of thing that brilliant
• 38:11
  actors had to come up with all lovely, little bits of Adventure
• 38:14
  like that, because the camera had to be on them.
• 38:16
  But, They had to be doing something so they have to come
• 38:18
  up with intelligent reasons why their character might do such
• 38:21
  thing. So they invent bits of business
• 38:23
  that are watchable but consists and it's I love all of that.
• 38:25
  I love seeing actors come up with ways of making things,
• 38:29
  interesting, or making their character sing.
• 38:31
  And, and I think Bernard does a lovely job of that.
• 38:34
  Of course, he starts off as nice, lovely inspect across
• 38:36
  London, then becomes evil. You know, director of The
• 38:41
  Chameleons and and just Just for future reference.
• 38:44
  If we ever need to see if Mark is wrong, and is that the sign
• 38:48
  of evil is? If you drop your Scottish
• 38:50
  accent, did any point you? And but there's all sorts I
• 38:56
  think I and I and it's been said a couple of Ben and Holly.
• 39:00
  I think a wonderful I and I love that they get that.
• 39:03
  They get so much to do in episodes one and two, and it
• 39:05
  really looks like Ben's gonna play a heroic role in the story
• 39:08
  and then they just get rid of them.
• 39:09
  And I think that's a real shame and seeing as they were
• 39:12
  contracted to episode 2 of evil of the Daleks, I think it was a
• 39:16
  bit. Mean not to give them a key role
• 39:18
  to play in their final story because I think Ben and Polly a
• 39:22
  great. I think Michael crazy is
• 39:23
  fantastic and and really actually suffers when Fraser
• 39:26
  comes in phrases brilliant and you can see, there's that bit
• 39:29
  where Polly gets, some gets Gets Zapped by the freezing pain and
• 39:33
  and sort of and pulled into the into the Hut, and Jamie and the
• 39:37
  doctor sort of walk off. And don't even notice the
• 39:39
  December of Matic of what what happens That season is basically
• 39:43
  there then a polyester hiked off of forgot about because these
• 39:47
  two have such an obvious report and I wouldn't lose the doctor
• 39:51
  and Jamie I wouldn't lose Patrick trout and Fraser Heinz
• 39:53
  and they're brilliant report for anything.
• 39:54
  But it, if only the Highlanders had been a year later or
• 39:58
  something and we'd had more of Ben and Holly because I I love
• 40:01
  Ben and Polly and I wish the faceless ones had been more of a
• 40:05
  last hurray, but I think it's creepy.
• 40:07
  I think the idea of of you know that that's that very scary
• 40:12
  thing of it's somebody we know but it's not them is is you
• 40:15
  know, is Potent one for sci-fi. There's there's lovely kids
• 40:19
  stuff in there. Like, oh, so they get the kids,
• 40:21
  they get them to write the the postcards and and and and, and
• 40:25
  then they send them. And as a kid that to me was the
• 40:27
  most brilliant plot idea ever as I can see why that would work.
• 40:32
  That's exciting. So I think all of that works
• 40:34
  works really well. And I think episode 6 sounds
• 40:37
  really exciting when they're they're running through the car
• 40:39
  park and finding people in Boots.
• 40:40
  You know, all of that is is wonderful.
• 40:42
  And it's got Samantha, Briggs his hat.
• 40:44
  So all hail the faceless ones. I yeah, I I'm I I think it's an
• 40:52
  underappreciated slice of Doctor Who I'm glad marks following
• 40:57
  you. Not me?
• 40:58
  She left. Yeah.
• 41:01
  Right. Yes, simply my favorite.
• 41:08
  Yeah, despite the appalling treatments of Ben and Polly.
• 41:11
  I love how it sets of the mystery.
• 41:13
  And how every time a question is answered, it raises more
• 41:16
  questions. So the story builds and builds.
• 41:19
  Tradee W says, I really enjoy this even though Ben and Polly
• 41:23
  pop for a cup of coffee for most of the story.
• 41:26
  What we do get is rather enjoyable, I like the dynamic
• 41:29
  between the doctor in the airport staff, The Chameleons
• 41:32
  are great and I like Jamie's chemistry with Samantha.
• 41:35
  Well, they could only kill me Tara.
• 41:38
  Oh, I love. Paul Quinn says, a really good
• 41:43
  contemporary. Thriller Doctor Who engages with
• 41:45
  modern culture. Jim Allenby on ceremoniously,
• 41:49
  dumps, Ben and Polly and Watershed Sam didn't become a
• 41:52
  companion. A little long, but it's a lot of
• 41:54
  fun with a cast, a sorry, a strong cast of characters.
• 41:57
  Jason Thompson, says another classic that leaves me cold.
• 42:00
  It's slow almost entirely, devoid of tension, on the plus
• 42:04
  side. It's got the common dance,
• 42:06
  wonderfully exasperated, cooperation with the doctor, and
• 42:08
  Jamie, finally gets his own partly written without Hasty
• 42:12
  reshuffling of Ben and Holly's dialogue.
• 42:14
  David Gillespie says, it might not be a classic but I adore.
• 42:18
  It Sam Jones is hat. Alone is one of drinking.
• 42:20
  He's got some Jones on that, brings his heart alone is one of
• 42:27
  the greatest hits to Doctor Who fashioned Steve Miller is the
• 42:32
  airport setting his unique. The shapeshifters concept is
• 42:35
  cool but the pacing is slower than airport.
• 42:37
  Security with a plot thinner than airline food economy class.
• 42:41
  You really hope Sam Jones says fall in love but A shame.
• 42:48
  We don't get to keep Shirley Valentine as Jamie's.
• 42:50
  New bestie she'd have been class.
• 42:53
  Here and said, whilst it's very creepy, and Atmospheric is also
• 42:56
  quite slow one. Last episode might help it or
• 42:59
  ending for Ben and Polly the doctor and Jamie are great,
• 43:02
  though. Daniel ruins, we are the most
• 43:04
  intelligent race in the universe as the chameleon director.
• 43:07
  Are they though? I mean, array for supervillains
• 43:10
  trolley dollies and Pauline colins.
• 43:12
  I guess, but not. So sure about the rest specially
• 43:15
  Ben and Polly go in the way of the dodo.
• 43:17
  Is this is this the most egregious four parts of stretch
• 43:21
  to six of all time, Avengers type Shenanigans but more of a
• 43:25
  Twilight Zone Edge to it. If you feels like Lloyd and
• 43:28
  Bryant for enemy of the world. Prepare yourself.
• 43:31
  Fraser Gregory says one. That's never really took off for
• 43:35
  me. Oh, it's a bit Bland and it
• 43:37
  doesn't stick the land in as a shape of things to come though,
• 43:40
  a contemporary story, with a companion of the week.
• 43:42
  This one stutters. So others can soar and on
• 43:46
  champion of the Damned. Yeah, no, I'm talking about
• 43:48
  again. Lost it again.
• 43:50
  Michael storms, says, the Contemporary setting works well
• 43:53
  and the initial premises good, but there's barely enough for
• 43:56
  four episodes. So let's loan six, it's a dull
• 43:58
  slog and the sidelines of Ben and Polly is Criminal.
• 44:01
  Luke seems Jenkins. I wish Pauline Collins estate.
• 44:04
  Everyone seems to think that we got Victorious, instead, boom,
• 44:08
  and odd run around Ben and Holly get away.
• 44:11
  Mix it. And Jamie finally shines how to
• 44:14
  impending said, yes, it's got some lovely location footage,
• 44:16
  but it's so far beyond my ability to suspend belief
• 44:19
  disbelief when it comes to the plot.
• 44:21
  The time we get to the explanation of why their
• 44:23
  faceless I'm too disinterested to car.
• 44:26
  It's got a boy, mark, one of the most forgetful trial.
• 44:30
  Titles. I love the premise unfold.
• 44:32
  It would be a belt of a tail but it just isn't.
• 44:35
  And the only thing I ever take away from it is Mercy nurse
• 44:38
  Pinto's. Way of saying, common dance.
• 44:40
  How does she say it? Oh, I didn't, I don't know, but
• 44:44
  she was Madeleine and nickel was, was I think she was
• 44:48
  Brazilian or something. So, she has a, she has a
• 44:51
  different pronunciation but I find enough.
• 44:55
  I didn't watch any of her episodes, just I was, I watched
• 44:58
  I watched the existing episode of this a nurse Pinto.
• 45:01
  Like The Chameleons is is only in the missing episodes of of
• 45:06
  the place. This one.
• 45:07
  Sadly. So I can't remember how she says
• 45:10
  it. No, I can't does.
• 45:11
  It doesn't stand out for me, but clearly it does for Mark.
• 45:15
  Hold on says, a great fall party but it's over long.
• 45:17
  Great first. Episode Love The Chameleons and
• 45:19
  Ben and Polished treatments. It's unforgivable.
• 45:21
  Very poor accent and finally Gareth Bailey says action, too
• 45:26
  long. With Polly's, absence really
• 45:28
  felt. It's definitely trend of the
• 45:31
  theme of people saying it's bit too long.
• 45:32
  Mark, are you won over by Toto? Um, well, well, known in the
• 45:37
  sense that I love the face. This one.
• 45:39
  So, I was already, you know, crying to put this through I
• 45:45
  mean obviously yes it's a real shame that that Ben and Holly I
• 45:48
  can just Sidelines and I think I feel a bit more Okay, with it.
• 45:53
  If at the end. The Samantha joins the doctrine
• 45:58
  Jamie looking for the Tardis, you know?
• 46:00
  That that would be, but they're okay.
• 46:02
  All right, it's it, it's a decent enough spot.
• 46:05
  We'll take that. And, but no, the things I love
• 46:07
  about it. I mean, I first of all, the, as
• 46:10
  an aside July 1966 was a hell of a time.
• 46:14
  You've got the war machines, you know, then you've got the
• 46:17
  chameleons up to no good at Gatwick and you've got Dalek
• 46:20
  ancients Stealing police boxes off the street and selling
• 46:24
  Victoria. Hell of a hell of a time, hell
• 46:27
  of a time. And, but the thing Love is the
• 46:30
  real world setting, which might sound odd coming after that
• 46:33
  says. So that thing is, if we think
• 46:37
  about time flight which you know, 20 years later, well less
• 46:41
  than 20 years later Davidson kind of walks into that airport
• 46:45
  and there's a bit of oh you know How did you come in here and
• 46:48
  tell us what? Steve but he feels, he looks
• 46:51
  comfortable in that setting. You know, he he's the hero
• 46:55
  figure who walks in and goes I can fix your problems and this
• 47:00
  putting Patrick try and stop her.
• 47:03
  In a busy City Center here in 1966 to try and deal with
• 47:09
  strange goings on. And so when over the comment
• 47:12
  down it's so funny. there's so much comedies or mind from this
• 47:18
  that really kind of In part one and part two, there's some
• 47:23
  properly disturbing. Moments in it.
• 47:26
  Like, they kind of this sort of shuffling chameleon, with the
• 47:29
  sort of Pilots cap on being pushed through the airport.
• 47:32
  But then you've also got the doctrine, Jamie kind of, you
• 47:35
  know, hiding behind newspapers and and doing all sorts of
• 47:38
  business and it all hangs together.
• 47:40
  Beautifully, I think and I think part of that is the setup just
• 47:45
  that kind of recognizable setting of an airport that we
• 47:49
  can all kind of recognized. So we're in we're into that.
• 47:52
  We can just focus on the characters and it kind of weird
• 47:54
  things going on. I do like that.
• 47:56
  It's a shame. We don't have more about, I'd
• 47:57
  love to see more of How that all kind of works with the set.
• 48:01
  And it's because, yeah, it's fun.
• 48:03
  Watching them all scatter on the runway, but I'd love to see a
• 48:07
  lot to see a bit more of the characteristics describes.
• 48:09
  It doesn't it? That's his ultimate.
• 48:11
  You go this way. I'll go that way. and then the
• 48:16
  story itself, but I think it's really interesting or watching
• 48:20
  it in 2024. I didn't have this kind of odd
• 48:25
  sense of oh, is this? Is this anti-immigration, does
• 48:31
  this idea of, you know, it's, it's 66 Airline travels kind of
• 48:35
  being opened up more. We've had the Windrush
• 48:37
  generation, the desert, just over a decade previously and the
• 48:41
  plot is These people coming over here and taking our identities
• 48:45
  but then of course, I remember. No, it's written by Malcolm
• 48:49
  Hulk, of course, that's not what this is about and the perfect
• 48:52
  woman. That, that tells you that.
• 48:54
  That's not what this is about. Is the doctor Who is the best
• 48:59
  person to fix this problem and help everybody save the day is
• 49:06
  almost denied that opportunity because he doesn't have a
• 49:09
  passport. That's brilliant.
• 49:12
  That's such a brilliant bit of satire.
• 49:15
  He was very great, I love that kind of contemporary commentary
• 49:21
  to the whole story that actually still works today and that
• 49:25
  element of it. So, that's really, really great.
• 49:28
  I know as always already kind of touched on the fact that there
• 49:32
  is new ones and depth to The Chameleons.
• 49:34
  They're not. And I bad guys.
• 49:36
  There's a couple of bad apples that have convinced everybody.
• 49:39
  That this is the best way for forwards.
• 49:41
  But then maybe there's another way now.
• 49:43
  I do agree. the if it wasn't blame if blades was the
• 49:47
  director, say if that was the Revelation if blade was the
• 49:51
  director and Crosslands Is the guy that?
• 49:55
  Eventually is convinced no no. There's another way I think that
• 49:59
  ending would work. Beautifully, but obviously
• 50:02
  that's that's not what we get. But I think that's the way you
• 50:05
  make that, you make that work, entire that.
• 50:07
  And then finally you know Jamie and Samantha it feels like We,
• 50:14
  you know, we can't companion romance's before this point, you
• 50:17
  know, decay in the myth makers. Susan and balance invasion of
• 50:21
  us, but this feels Genuine and it and real like it feels which
• 50:28
  is weird because he's from, you know, the 17th century and we
• 50:32
  long forgot my Hawk, we've we've got that story.
• 50:35
  This might be the point. Actually.
• 50:37
  We yeah, we just got Scottish. That's it.
• 50:40
  Just thank you very much. I do quite like the Jamie's,
• 50:48
  kind of herbs response to the common going goodbye.
• 50:53
  Scotty at the end is He's got him wrapped around her finger
• 50:58
  and she does it would have been a great Dynamic to watch.
• 51:01
  It would have been a brilliant Dynamic and also that there
• 51:04
  would have been an element I know everybody.
• 51:07
  Said it, you know Jamie and Victoria you know there's a Kind
• 51:10
  of Love Story. There isn't let's be honest with
• 51:12
  each other. The reason there's a kind of
• 51:16
  Protectiveness and all that. But it doesn't feel like a kind
• 51:19
  of Mutual relationship in the way that that Jamie and and Sam
• 51:24
  like, that is a really great partnership.
• 51:28
  That would have, I think turns doctor into like, almost a
• 51:33
  romantic comedy about You know, almost 60 years before Stephen
• 51:37
  Moffitt, he does that, you know? And so shame we don't get that
• 51:41
  and but I love it and I think that's what kind of keeps you
• 51:44
  coming back to it. And that's what kind of keeps
• 51:46
  you engaged. Is that kind of scent for
• 51:49
  relationship, between between Jamie and Sam?
• 51:51
  The way he Stills the ticket from a black Kissinger and then
• 51:54
  he gets on the plane and you have that all that comedy of
• 51:57
  Jamie, McCrimmon the 17th century Highlands, or on a
• 52:02
  passenger plane with a jiffy tummy.
• 52:04
  It's great. It's wonderful.
• 52:06
  It's going through She the first time ALU has been used in
• 52:12
  Doctor. Who is it?
• 52:13
  I possibly. Yes.
• 52:14
  Yeah, I think, I think, and as a way to save you from being mean,
• 52:20
  Yes. Pauline Collins know that she
• 52:22
  was just passing through. I think the producers were like,
• 52:25
  oh, we've got something. Yeah, but like she was already
• 52:28
  offer Shirley Valentine, although I had she gone on, I
• 52:31
  would have loved for her to have dropped in the next story, which
• 52:34
  is evil of the Daleks that she'd take a night classes in karate
• 52:37
  or something throughout all the time and became sort of She
• 52:42
  could have taken on Kenmore, it would have been great.
• 52:44
  She does get companion billing in the radio times.
• 52:48
  Because the radio times at this period and I get very cross
• 52:52
  about this one. It's not replicated on the
• 52:53
  packaging of the DVDs because billing is very furiously.
• 52:57
  Worked out between agents and management and things are.
• 53:00
  And the radio times was a big part of that, it would be
• 53:03
  starring Doctor, Who the actor is Doctor Who.
• 53:05
  And then with the main guest stars, although occasionally, a
• 53:10
  guest star is so big, they get recorded.
• 53:12
  So, evil of the Daleks is starring Patrick trout and
• 53:15
  Marius gory, that's the billing. And then with, you know, the so
• 53:22
  with with faceless ones, it's starring Patrick trout and with
• 53:24
  Colin Gordon, who gets slightly bigger letters and and then I
• 53:29
  think one event them Bernard Kay, Donald Pickering, and then
• 53:35
  and Annika Wills Michael craze, Frazer Hines.
• 53:39
  But when anacker and Michael go, it's with Frazer Hines, Pauline
• 53:43
  Collins. So Pauline Collins actually gets
• 53:45
  complian billing in in the In the appropriate episodes of the
• 53:50
  places. And sometimes, I mean, you know,
• 53:53
  that's more than Katarina gets. So just so she couldn't, you
• 54:00
  know, depending on what your, what Your qualification of
• 54:04
  qualifications are, she could, she could be considered to be a
• 54:08
  companion if you wanted well, they both do five episodes.
• 54:10
  Oh yeah, possibly. but let's leave that kind of worms where
• 54:18
  No over to you faceless ones. I'm really not sure about this
• 54:21
  one. I'm really not sure and I'm
• 54:23
  pleased. We've had two positive readings.
• 54:25
  Have you guys ever looked into what might have made it to the
• 54:28
  screen instead of the faceless ones?
• 54:30
  The Doctor Who in the massive shop.
• 54:31
  Yeah, big store by Malcolm Hulk, featuring Dr. Who facing bubonic
• 54:36
  play in Grace Brothers. Yeah, I kind of want to see that
• 54:40
  I suppose to the faceless gloves.
• 54:43
  This should be my story because I'm from Crawley and my dad was
• 54:48
  a baggage handler at Gatwick Airport.
• 54:49
  I spent my childhood illegally running around on those tarmacs.
• 54:56
  So I've basically played The Faceless for the first 10 years
• 54:59
  of my life. But I'm not sure about this one
• 55:02
  and I don't know the things I like about it and the things I
• 55:04
  don't like about it. I saw the same thing.
• 55:06
  Because I think the direction is kind of language.
• 55:10
  And slow. And it's lots of long sort of
• 55:15
  dull shots on people, but it's trying to create a sense of
• 55:18
  unease. So I think the direction is kind
• 55:21
  of successful, but it makes it a bit dreary.
• 55:25
  And I think the villains are also a bit.
• 55:30
  Why is it whenever you are actors to play?
• 55:33
  Other versions of themselves or possessed versions of
• 55:36
  themselves. Mostly, they're acting Talent
• 55:39
  desserts them completely and they sort of go for that
• 55:41
  monotonous robot, which is always really, really terrible.
• 55:47
  You haven't got those actors here.
• 55:48
  You've got really fantastic actors in it, and they're doing
• 55:51
  kind of a good job, but they're asking to be play monotonous,
• 55:55
  sounding aliens that are all a bit dull to watch.
• 55:59
  So I think everyone's doing the right thing are just don't
• 56:03
  really like what it's doing. I hate the fact that Ben and
• 56:07
  Holly a shafted in this story. Their last story, it really
• 56:10
  irritates me because I love them as companions.
• 56:12
  I think they came in and gave doctor a right kick up the ass
• 56:15
  when they came in and dazzling. For our most of these stories
• 56:19
  were going to talk about today and they deserved a lot more
• 56:21
  than a pre-filled sequence bolted on at the end.
• 56:24
  I mean if I go we got it right? Don't do didn't get that but
• 56:28
  it's really not, but I also love the fact that Ben and Holly are
• 56:32
  kicks out this story to episode and because that just feels
• 56:35
  wrong and weird and it adds to the sense of unease of what the
• 56:39
  hell is going on. Yeah, I'm it is too long.
• 56:43
  I think it's too labored. I don't think it's got the the
• 56:48
  jokes it needs to see me through it, but it's not like some of
• 56:52
  the best Cliffhangers you're ever gonna see the one that you
• 56:55
  mentioned, Toby, the one where the plane goes up and turns into
• 56:59
  a spaceship and goes up into the sky inside another spaceship.
• 57:03
  Now, the animation is amazing, but the model work.
• 57:06
  Look at those Stills. The modern work is fantastic.
• 57:09
  Oh I don't know. It really balls me but there's
• 57:13
  so much in it. I love.
• 57:14
  And, of course, Pauline Collins, who is just a dream in that role
• 57:19
  know I'm gonna put it through I wasn't but you two have been so
• 57:24
  be going to put it through. Yeah there's loads here to love.
• 57:26
  It is too long though and it does fall apart the end.
• 57:29
  I think what's happened there? Is that Joe had gone into his
• 57:32
  room intending to get rid of it but now Joe has put it through,
• 57:36
  is it really Joe? I'll show you all the accent
• 57:43
  Joe. Oh, something.
• 57:44
  Now on your determined, whether it's true in me or not, you
• 57:47
  know, every time Mark talks are absolutely distracted by the
• 57:51
  fact that lollipop keeps emerging from underneath him.
• 57:55
  Is it may or not? That's definitely Joe.
• 57:57
  Yeah, that's when you say lollipop is not a euphemism for
• 58:00
  us, I think we should just provide no contacts.
• 58:03
  Just your lollipop keeps popping inside a wonderful teacher.
• 58:11
  Joe likes to get his mouth around in a matching lollipop
• 58:13
  from a Scotsman. Oh, he's been dribbling all the
• 58:19
  time. Anyway, should we move swiftly
• 58:21
  me? All right.
• 58:22
  Yeah, I am absolutely in the faceless ones, throw as well.
• 58:26
  So it's gonna be a four, four. I think part one, just taking
• 58:31
  part one or like, I just think it feels really confident and
• 58:35
  assured. That's not, that's not dissing.
• 58:37
  The previous stories of gone past.
• 58:39
  But it just feels like everything.
• 58:41
  Is clicking into place in here, just look at the doctor and
• 58:44
  Jamie relationship. You know, I think Jamie as we
• 58:47
  will come to with the other stories has suffered a lot by
• 58:49
  picking up lines from other actors.
• 58:51
  I'm not really having a strong role for himself but I think
• 58:54
  here from the minute and episode one where as you said Joe they
• 58:59
  split up and go their different ways and the doctor pairs that
• 59:01
  with me they're still buy different tires on that Runway
• 59:04
  and the doctor calls Jamie across to come and join him and
• 59:08
  the minute they join. They are then that Inseparable
• 59:10
  to some that we then come to know and love And then they go
• 59:14
  into the airport and they're doing all their business
• 59:16
  straight away, which I don't think we've seen the two of them
• 59:18
  play, that kind of Comedy stick until now where we're trouts and
• 59:22
  kind of stamping on his foot to nudging him.
• 59:24
  So that Jamie doesn't say the wrong thing.
• 59:26
  They're getting now into that groove of the doctor and Jamie,
• 59:29
  that we will come to know one love over the next couple of
• 59:32
  years. So, again, just feels it's
• 59:34
  confidence to her travels really settled in, by this point.
• 59:38
  Yeah. And there's some lovely location
• 59:40
  filming like we've said and the commandant, he just feels like
• 59:43
  real. He feels more real than I think
• 59:45
  most of the other characters we've seen in the seas and are
• 59:49
  not dissing those characters, some of my slightly larger than
• 59:51
  life as we will come. So but the common dangerous
• 59:54
  feels real if you feels a real person.
• 59:56
  So I think some a lot going on in episode 1, that just really
• 1:00:00
  grounds and feels like confident episode doctor.
• 1:00:03
  My second reason is, I always like to give this one, it's the
• 1:00:07
  first expectations and I think this really does yes.
• 1:00:10
  It's a story about alien duplicates but we do not get
• 1:00:13
  that obvious Trope of the doctor and companion being replaced and
• 1:00:17
  then falling their friends. Android Invasion.
• 1:00:20
  For example, you know, we don't get that standard infiltration
• 1:00:23
  of the doctors team and in a period when bad is a really bad.
• 1:00:27
  As, you know, we will come to the Cybermen and dialects, Etc.
• 1:00:31
  It's really nice to have an alien menace.
• 1:00:33
  That's got a sympathetic core and actually they've got
• 1:00:35
  different viewpoints as well. Which again, differentiates them
• 1:00:38
  from everybody else. We're going to see that things
• 1:00:41
  very uniform. Like it's interesting but it's
• 1:00:44
  dull. I don't find it don't.
• 1:00:47
  So I think the characters, keep me going.
• 1:00:48
  We've got some really strong female character.
• 1:00:51
  We got some Briggs, we've got Gene Rock, we got even nurse
• 1:00:54
  Pinto in those final two episodes, right?
• 1:00:56
  I've got a storyline of her own, all of them.
• 1:00:58
  Demonstrates halogen some resourcefulness and bravery.
• 1:01:01
  Yes, I know we've got Kirsty and John Lee early in the season,
• 1:01:04
  but after Joe, and I have been doing quite a bit of Hench for
• 1:01:08
  recently. It's nice that we've got some
• 1:01:09
  really strong female animals. Yeah, some meaty stuff and
• 1:01:13
  they're taking the lead. So I love all of that.
• 1:01:15
  And then finally, just the comedy in this, I think there's
• 1:01:18
  so much comedy Sobe, absolutely agree with you calling.
• 1:01:21
  And as the commandant, he's constantly flummoxed just a
• 1:01:25
  couple of little touches here. He tells Gene off in episode
• 1:01:28
  four for phoning Athens because of the cost that's going on and
• 1:01:35
  then she faint she mocks fainting and I'm calling
• 1:01:38
  Gordon's like she's never done this on me before.
• 1:01:41
  I mean it's such a British way of speaking is not Donald
• 1:01:46
  Pickering. I think he's got a wonderful
• 1:01:47
  line in dry camper, you know, Crosslands in about, you know,
• 1:01:52
  the long arm of the law will follow you.
• 1:01:54
  And Donald Pickering is, I don't think it will reach where you're
• 1:01:57
  going. It's all it's lovely.
• 1:01:59
  Lovely Camp dialogue. And yeah, absolutely awesome a
• 1:02:02
  month to breaks. Forget and Chaplet Sam is the
• 1:02:06
  companion that we should have had in the 60s, Joe, you've
• 1:02:09
  nicked, the line I was going to quote brother.
• 1:02:10
  After all, they can only murder mates.
• 1:02:14
  Correct and we're missing. So unfortunately, we see some of
• 1:02:18
  that physical comedy between Fraser and Samantha, but we
• 1:02:22
  don't see enough of it because the last three episodes are
• 1:02:25
  missing. We see, you know, the way she
• 1:02:26
  hugs their money, he looks totally nonplussed.
• 1:02:28
  I'd love to see what they were coming up with, in episode 4 to
• 1:02:32
  6. They were absolutely charming.
• 1:02:33
  And Joe, when you said this story is a bit dull, I think
• 1:02:36
  he's the character's on the humor.
• 1:02:38
  The keep me constantly engaged with it, so it's a definite
• 1:02:41
  going. Maybe those characters should
• 1:02:43
  not have to do so much work out. Keep me interesting.
• 1:02:45
  It completely, it should be interesting as well.
• 1:02:47
  Should I want to do so many bass onto sieges in season 5?
• 1:02:51
  Is it? Because you take a frustrated
• 1:02:54
  authority figure, and then you throw Patrick trousers in their
• 1:02:57
  lap and that's just always gold. You name an example.
• 1:03:00
  It's always brilliant. Now, one that I did it again,
• 1:03:03
  and again, right after death star in the two doctors, you
• 1:03:06
  know, Mark pick your first story.
• 1:03:11
  Well, let's get us away. Um, the Highlanders, let's talk
• 1:03:15
  about the Highlanders, the Western Scotsman in the room.
• 1:03:21
  And I I've been sweating on this.
• 1:03:27
  It's good Scottish words whether it withering its withering it's
• 1:03:31
  not you know you're coming in height.
• 1:03:33
  You're you know that I like it. um, over whether or not this
• 1:03:38
  goes this goes through or goes in the bin and it's that kind of
• 1:03:44
  you know, head and heart thing it's like You know, is this a
• 1:03:48
  good bit of drama? Mostly.
• 1:03:51
  And but also is this, ah, you know, a fair, portrayal of of
• 1:03:58
  kind of the battle of cologne in the aftermath and so does that
• 1:04:02
  kind of nationalist heart, sort of element of it. and I think, I
• 1:04:06
  don't know, I find it difficult because In the like I think it
• 1:04:11
  does in terms of the three things that I've kind of been
• 1:04:14
  thinking about with this story, it does get across that
• 1:04:17
  hopelessness. And post battle that the English
• 1:04:21
  of their, their basically, just laying a sway through the
• 1:04:26
  Jacobite and so, like, random out their home burning things
• 1:04:30
  down raping and pillaging and, and it's surrender.
• 1:04:34
  Its a horrendous moment and I think you do get.
• 1:04:38
  You know this is Doctor Who you're not going to have raping
• 1:04:42
  and although the time Hitler but yes you're not have yes, you're
• 1:04:47
  not gonna have that and that's fine.
• 1:04:49
  And I wouldn't expect you to have that.
• 1:04:51
  Um but I do think this Does kind of take the foot off the gas
• 1:04:58
  when it comes to saying? What the English army were kind
• 1:05:03
  of responsible for, because the villains of this are not the
• 1:05:05
  English army. They are a slave trader.
• 1:05:10
  And I suppose a kind of high society establishment figures.
• 1:05:15
  So there is an element I suppose if that but they are painted,
• 1:05:18
  this kind of outside of the of the army.
• 1:05:22
  There are just cashing in on this on this battle and cashing
• 1:05:26
  in on the punishment of the jacobites for daring to kind of
• 1:05:30
  rebel against the, the King George So that wrinkles a little
• 1:05:37
  bit. And it. and I think it's partly
• 1:05:41
  that kind of Because we have the Smugglers.
• 1:05:43
  Obviously, we're not talking about that because of rods weird
• 1:05:46
  structuring system. This might it's very similar to
• 1:05:50
  the Smugglers and I wonder if Jerry Davis isn't all that
• 1:05:56
  interested in historical stories as education in a way that the
• 1:06:02
  human wanted. He just wants them as a kind of
• 1:06:04
  setting for a swashbuckling adventure and and you get that
• 1:06:09
  in this absolutely you know Jamie and Ben or captured
• 1:06:13
  there's got to be like a big, there's a big fight on a ship at
• 1:06:16
  the end and it's all very exciting.
• 1:06:18
  It's all very Daring Do it's it's great.
• 1:06:22
  But this isn't the massacre, you know, this isn't a kind of
• 1:06:27
  historical that it started diving into like a really
• 1:06:30
  horrendous periods in history and kind of asking.
• 1:06:34
  Asking questions is to kind of well, who's who's to blame and
• 1:06:37
  also what what does that gonna do?
• 1:06:39
  What stocks, who can do and continues to do with its
• 1:06:43
  historical stories? Whether or not the fling aliens
• 1:06:46
  in it or it's just a straight historical.
• 1:06:49
  Um so I think that element of it, the kind of historical
• 1:06:53
  element of it, is what makes me kind of want to say, Eh this
• 1:06:57
  kind of fails on that that level and let's kind of put it in.
• 1:07:03
  And yet, and yes. all the swashbuckling stuff is quite
• 1:07:09
  exciting. You know, the doctor Polly and
• 1:07:15
  Kirsty sort of putting together. This elaborate thought to kind
• 1:07:20
  of arm arm everybody and storm like, get this arm shipment onto
• 1:07:26
  the slave ships, so that they can all fight back.
• 1:07:28
  And then they capture this shit and they'll sail to France and
• 1:07:31
  sort of join the joint. Bonnie Prince Charlie.
• 1:07:34
  And his accolades of all kind of fled to France and they can
• 1:07:37
  escape Scotland and the tyranny of the English.
• 1:07:41
  That's all really exciting and that element of it is quite
• 1:07:46
  good. Also, I think Ben's greatness.
• 1:07:50
  I love it. Starts with They get captured by
• 1:07:55
  the English army and he has a kind of sense of oh, we'll be
• 1:07:59
  all right. I mean there's some you know I'm
• 1:08:02
  in the Navy that this is fine. Like these are my people like
• 1:08:05
  and and very quickly realizes that know that that isn't
• 1:08:09
  necessarily going to be the case and histories really dangerous.
• 1:08:14
  So that element of it as well is is very good. but then, Again.
• 1:08:23
  And you're exactly where I was with the face.
• 1:08:29
  There's a lot of Fanning around, there's a lot of kind of,
• 1:08:32
  there's some, a lot of Comedy business for trout, in which, at
• 1:08:36
  times is brilliant. And I absolutely love the way he
• 1:08:40
  see. You can't tell more because it's
• 1:08:43
  mostly to have a snap but there's things you can get from
• 1:08:46
  the short way trying to deliver in the lines, but he does seem
• 1:08:50
  to be having an absolute ball in those scenes where he's messing
• 1:08:53
  with and gray and Parkinson's in the and then he's that bits
• 1:08:59
  really good because it's the doctor doing what the doctor
• 1:09:01
  does best, which is messing with authority figures and making
• 1:09:05
  them look like idiots. That's really the doctor Dragon
• 1:09:10
  up, as an old Scottish Lady. It's funny, it's funny, but is
• 1:09:15
  it in the right story? I don't know.
• 1:09:16
  With all the with all the horrendous stuff that's going on
• 1:09:20
  around them. It is very funny, but you're
• 1:09:23
  also kind of just like, oh, is this.
• 1:09:26
  Is this tonally kind of threatening to kind of tip this
• 1:09:29
  into the wrong, the wrong Camp. Um but boy, I'd love to see it.
• 1:09:35
  Yeah. It's good, it is good.
• 1:09:39
  It's just, I think the historical stuff really Ryan
• 1:09:46
  calls, but I think I'm Gonna Roll not reluctantly.
• 1:09:50
  I am going to put it through, but what I will say, is up with
• 1:09:54
  the Highlanders, but down with King George, that was the first
• 1:10:04
  lawyer knows, wasn't it? that's um, happened this up.
• 1:10:14
  Alright, let's go to the comments.
• 1:10:15
  The campus Patrol says this is comedy gold, if we could.
• 1:10:20
  That was a comment on the Highlander.
• 1:10:21
  Yeah, possibly your teacher. The company's patrols, this is
• 1:10:28
  comedy gold. If we could see the performances
• 1:10:31
  especially trouts and it would be much more appreciated, what
• 1:10:34
  I'd give to see his old washer woman and what I'd give to his
• 1:10:37
  old Washerwoman, not sure if that's if we become.
• 1:10:43
  Are you being so? the second all stepped on board,
• 1:10:50
  I Oh, God Rod. Why did you guys this one?
• 1:10:54
  I gave you this one on purpose, joke, go for it.
• 1:10:56
  Anglo Hanover really say who it is.
• 1:10:59
  First, by the way, home wins says, Anglo hell over Rhian.
• 1:11:03
  Let ethnic cleansing gets the same comedic treatment as
• 1:11:06
  Nero's, Rome, and the rape and murder Fest at the end of the
• 1:11:09
  Trojan War. I remember enjoying the book,
• 1:11:13
  but that was before I became a Centrist dad, and a Poe faced
• 1:11:16
  Lefty academic. James, I love you.
• 1:11:21
  James says, this is a strange one bonus marks for soaking.
• 1:11:24
  Wet band, loses marks for being very forgettable.
• 1:11:27
  Oh, and the introduction of Jamie is just weird as he does.
• 1:11:30
  Bugger all for four episodes Benz, Steve Miller Bennett the
• 1:11:35
  good bits Jamie's intro historical ROM but bad slow pace
• 1:11:38
  and missing episodes that's a lot of this season though.
• 1:11:41
  Steve so unless your sporting a kill and have undying who
• 1:11:44
  loyalty, let this one go hardcore fans only Daniel
• 1:11:48
  ransley said okay if instruction for Jamie spends a lot of time,
• 1:11:52
  captured and talking plot points, pretty good story for
• 1:11:55
  Ben, he gets in and out of trouble and he's a good foil for
• 1:11:58
  the doctor, but a great story for Polly who refuses to be left
• 1:12:01
  out and is an absolute counter stay and I loved it.
• 1:12:04
  She is a bitch in this story. Well get their complex located
• 1:12:10
  cookies says a decent historical on a fine introduction for Jamie
• 1:12:13
  we'll go on to become one of the most iconic characters one.
• 1:12:17
  I'd love to see animated or crested is neither the audio
• 1:12:20
  Noir. The recondo much to excite me.
• 1:12:22
  Polly is good though. Jason Thompson, Doctor Who in
• 1:12:25
  the exciting adventure with a crooked solicitor Troutman is
• 1:12:28
  greatly gets to be a bit more proactive than usual, but then
• 1:12:31
  we have trials are It's clear JB wasn't intended to join the
• 1:12:35
  Harvest crew and get some odd emphasis in the final part just
• 1:12:38
  to justify it. But they did have a much better
• 1:12:40
  story about the slave traders in the Romans and the United States
• 1:12:44
  makes light of one of Britain's bloodiest battles trout and
• 1:12:47
  overplayed some bits and it's supposedly aggressive as this
• 1:12:51
  poly, despite making an impression on this Lord, Fraser
• 1:12:54
  Heinz gets little to do with Jamie Big Orange.
• 1:12:57
  Michael says, historically important for giving us, Jamie
• 1:13:00
  otherwise, fairly forgettable. Trouton is still trying to find
• 1:13:04
  his take on the doctor. I don't look around says the
• 1:13:08
  Regeneration crisis story from before they existed.
• 1:13:10
  The doctors disguises are like, he's trying to find himself.
• 1:13:13
  I just love that. It's a classic historical ROM.
• 1:13:16
  So rare to have trout in such a setting.
• 1:13:18
  Good fun Kieran says, mixing slapstick and darkness.
• 1:13:22
  The final pure historical was a good outing for the Tartus crew,
• 1:13:25
  even if it's hard to get a full picture of the story Luke's and
• 1:13:29
  strengthens as a fun romp, whoever decided this Oracle
• 1:13:31
  story should be phased out was wrong.
• 1:13:33
  Even one not as strong as this had a lasting impact on who do
• 1:13:37
  malumbay, feels like a sibling to the Smugglers.
• 1:13:39
  It's mostly lost. Usually for godson and one of
• 1:13:42
  the last historicals, but you know what, I really enjoy it.
• 1:13:45
  The doctor is funny and unpredictable and polish shows a
• 1:13:48
  bit of Steel, give it a go. Koya says, it's a flavor of
• 1:13:52
  History, the romance and magic of a boy's own adventure, from
• 1:13:54
  Times Gone. By it's probably a ripping yarn
• 1:13:57
  but my issue that there is that they're just isn't much plot
• 1:14:00
  particularly compared to the heart or historicals, David,
• 1:14:03
  Gillespie prep. I've listened to the soundtrack.
• 1:14:05
  I've watched a number of reconstruction and it never
• 1:14:07
  really sticks, but I bought the story on vinyl recently and
• 1:14:10
  listened along with the camera scripts.
• 1:14:12
  He loves looking at a camera script, you know?
• 1:14:14
  So it's very clever, man, I'm starting to appreciate what
• 1:14:17
  we've lost and finally pulls my sister's a decent historical
• 1:14:20
  memorable for introducing Jamie. Charlton's constant disguises
• 1:14:24
  never fail to make me laugh. Toby, there's a lot of comments
• 1:14:29
  there that this is very forgettable.
• 1:14:32
  Oh, I'm gonna spend the whole of this podcast facilitating.
• 1:14:36
  I came into terminate and I sort of knew what I was ejecting and
• 1:14:41
  knew what I was keeping, but still didn't know much beyond
• 1:14:43
  that, but I'm not convinced. So, let's, let's see if I can
• 1:14:46
  work it out. As I talk it through, I have a
• 1:14:49
  feeling this was very well directed, you, Dave?
• 1:14:52
  And we have no episodes a few Davids in existence, sadly.
• 1:14:54
  But I've interviewed a lot of people who've worked in
• 1:14:57
  television in the 1960s. And even those who didn't work
• 1:15:00
  with, you David on Doctor Who, but worked with him.
• 1:15:02
  On other things, actors and Technical people alike were
• 1:15:07
  quick to cite him as a fantastic director.
• 1:15:10
  Now, sometimes the direct to the people like is not necessarily a
• 1:15:14
  director, whose, you know, who's working is magnificent.
• 1:15:16
  But I think the feeling was a few, David knew what he was
• 1:15:19
  doing and certainly the Oak and quill seen in Fury from the deep
• 1:15:23
  shows, somebody who I think can, you know, bust out of Doctor,
• 1:15:27
  Who's Norms to to give us something that you know, you
• 1:15:31
  can't, you can't Dissipate from what's on paper and go.
• 1:15:35
  Okay, there's there's an extra Dimension here that will only
• 1:15:37
  get by seeing it. So, I suspect and, and my
• 1:15:41
  impression from the visuals that we have is that they do the cold
• 1:15:45
  very well. It looks a very unkempt and
• 1:15:48
  uncomfortable story and the, the aftermath of that Bloody battle
• 1:15:51
  seems to be, you know, pervaded, the whole story.
• 1:15:54
  And I like my historicals, sort of Bleak and uncompromising and
• 1:15:59
  the sort of weight of History being another sort of enemy as
• 1:16:02
  much as any of the participants. But my, My worry is an I can't.
• 1:16:09
  And again, I can't quite reconcile.
• 1:16:11
  Why? This is, I came into this.
• 1:16:14
  Pretty much as Mark did as seeing the Smugglers and the
• 1:16:17
  Highlanders as bed, fellows as swashbuckling.
• 1:16:20
  Somebody said in the comments there ripping Yarns, which I
• 1:16:23
  think is a brilliant way of putting it.
• 1:16:24
  And I, you know, I remember watching moonfleet at school.
• 1:16:27
  And in fact, I think Patrick and had been in Smugglers Bay which
• 1:16:32
  was a Which was a version of moonfleet that the BBC had done,
• 1:16:35
  not long before this or around this time that Christopher
• 1:16:38
  barrier directed. And so this sort of thing was
• 1:16:42
  Not Unusual on television and what an ice, I love the
• 1:16:46
  historicals. And and somebody said in the
• 1:16:48
  comments there, oh, there were fools to, to get rid of them,
• 1:16:52
  but I wonder if I like the historicals because they were
• 1:16:56
  phased out and because I'm an awful Doctor Who fan and we love
• 1:17:00
  being victims. Don't we go?
• 1:17:01
  Well, actually, I really like it, but would I love Doctor Who
• 1:17:04
  if they've been doing, you know, if they done, you know, Peter
• 1:17:08
  Davidson stack and story had been the clear patra's or
• 1:17:10
  whatever. You know would I would?
• 1:17:12
  I not be going oh come on do something on a space ship with
• 1:17:15
  frogs and I so do I like the historicals because they exist
• 1:17:21
  as an artifact in the archaeology of Doctor?
• 1:17:25
  Who do I do? I love the Highlanders because
• 1:17:27
  it represents what could have been a but had Had passed not
• 1:17:34
  gone differently. There's so much in in the
• 1:17:36
  Highlanders that smacks of, let's not do that again.
• 1:17:38
  That Triton's doctor being The Master of Disguise, that was
• 1:17:41
  clearly part of the pitch when he took over, either from him or
• 1:17:44
  them to him, you know. Yeah.
• 1:17:46
  You can dress up all the time and he like Britney I think he
• 1:17:49
  spends the whole of episode three as a woman.
• 1:17:50
  I don't think Doctor Who has ever done that before up until
• 1:17:55
  the woman who fell to Earth. So, and and try to his is
• 1:18:01
  greater that. I'm I'm not, but I'm not sure
• 1:18:07
  it's sustainable. I, I think it's, I like watching
• 1:18:11
  actors having fun, but I know that that's, that's very, you
• 1:18:15
  know, that's a particular thing. And I think we as Doctor Who
• 1:18:17
  fans like watching our beloved actors having fun, but sometimes
• 1:18:21
  that can tip into Self Indulgence and I think it's
• 1:18:24
  something we indulge us ourselves with sometimes.
• 1:18:25
  We've Allied otherwise to absolutely.
• 1:18:30
  We can cross over at Absolutely. And I would like a hat like that
• 1:18:35
  as well is. Another thing that looks this is
• 1:18:38
  season 4 has has a string of things where you go, oh, they're
• 1:18:42
  gonna keep that as a regular thing, and they thought he's
• 1:18:44
  called Doctor Who in, because he's Dr. Von Vera and this is
• 1:18:47
  Nate, is Dr. W in the underwater Menace.
• 1:18:51
  So, you know, there's something. Oh, should we call him Doctor,
• 1:18:53
  Who in every story? That'd be funny or whatever.
• 1:18:55
  They gradually. Sort of Chuck this out and then
• 1:18:57
  and they get rid of Ben and Polly.
• 1:18:59
  And they saw the Streamlight it, the Streamline, it by the end of
• 1:19:01
  the season. They sort of got the magic
• 1:19:04
  formula. So, I gotten right in the
• 1:19:06
  scripts at this point. That's why.
• 1:19:08
  That's right. Yes, that's it.
• 1:19:10
  The AI generated, that's what they are.
• 1:19:16
  Historical. Yeah.
• 1:19:17
  So and I And and I think my historicals, I because I really
• 1:19:25
  like the, the early Hartnell historicals are really season. 3
• 1:19:28
  is probably my favorite season of the of the 60s.
• 1:19:31
  But again, that might be because I did say this was the most
• 1:19:34
  obscure one, because we've got more episodes of season 3, but
• 1:19:37
  we don't have tell a snaps of season 3.
• 1:19:39
  So, season three is in a way more mysterious in some ways.
• 1:19:41
  And, and sort of let's talk about we didn't have the books,
• 1:19:44
  either a lot of those stories. So but but you know, things like
• 1:19:47
  them would would we have, you know, I think the massacre is
• 1:19:51
  wonderful. The myth makers is funny but
• 1:19:53
  it's a, it's a sort of the humor is has sort of literary literary
• 1:19:58
  ballast to it. It's not horsing that some might
• 1:20:01
  say. Yes.
• 1:20:02
  It's very pretentious and you go.
• 1:20:03
  Well, that's maybe why I like it.
• 1:20:05
  But, you know, I I and so guilty.
• 1:20:08
  It's just but the Romans, I think the Romans is very funny
• 1:20:10
  and that has fast in a bloody terribly, horrible period of of
• 1:20:16
  time and, and historical and societal backdrop.
• 1:20:20
  But It seems it seems to kind of work in a way.
• 1:20:24
  So like I'm not I'm struggling to articulate why I give those a
• 1:20:28
  pass in a way that I like the fun of the Highlanders.
• 1:20:31
  I think it's the probably the thing that sells it the most is
• 1:20:35
  that they decide to have a bit of fun with it in place is the
• 1:20:38
  best scene is, when trout and smacks Perkins, his head on
• 1:20:41
  desk, which is hilarious, and all.
• 1:20:44
  So also, because Sydney Arnold, who plays Perkins has my
• 1:20:48
  favorite movie line of all time in the film, called top secret,
• 1:20:51
  which is made by the makers of airplane.
• 1:20:53
  And it's set during World War Two, and he, and there were all
• 1:20:56
  hiding in a farm, and the Germans not on the door.
• 1:20:59
  And he opened, he's the farmer, and he opens the door and they
• 1:21:02
  say, are you the potato farmer? And he says, yes I am Mr. Potato
• 1:21:07
  and I think that's such a good line.
• 1:21:09
  But anyway, that's another day and but so the humor lifted from
• 1:21:16
  just being, you know, swashbuckling because my I would
• 1:21:20
  argue Do you know that the myth makers plays with form?
• 1:21:23
  The massacre is a really interesting, has really
• 1:21:26
  interesting things to say about religion and it's and it's
• 1:21:29
  deeply thrilling, and dark and thoughtful.
• 1:21:31
  And I don't think we'd have enjoyed the massacre of much of
• 1:21:35
  partnered up in episode 4, with a sock on his head going.
• 1:21:38
  Oh, yes, I'm a wonderful woman with just gonna spot off, but
• 1:21:43
  and we have to talk about Captain Trask because the story
• 1:21:49
  of Captain, ah, trust is that he was originally the first mate
• 1:21:53
  and he betrayed Willie Mackay, who was originally going to be
• 1:21:57
  played, by the way, by Russell Hunter, Commander yuvana, who
• 1:22:01
  was then unavailable and Andrew, Danny came in, Andy was a lovely
• 1:22:04
  actor was around until relatively recently, but so we
• 1:22:06
  could have had to Ivana of much earlier and we've been solicitor
• 1:22:13
  Grace satisfied and but that's a niche but Captain trash.
• 1:22:19
  So when He did the job interview for first mates.
• 1:22:23
  It was like, so, do you want to be first rated on the ship?
• 1:22:25
  Yes, I do. And you.
• 1:22:29
  Are not gonna do anything like Mutiny.
• 1:22:30
  Oh, what? Makes you think I'd betray you
• 1:22:35
  and and become piratical. I will just be a very you know,
• 1:22:40
  I mean he only exists to be a pirate.
• 1:22:44
  Okay. More on that.
• 1:22:46
  One of all, I mean to talk talk about sort of what's not
• 1:22:51
  nominative determinism is it the determinism?
• 1:22:53
  But it's it's it's speech pattern determinism, you know.
• 1:22:57
  But he was four, he's good. Could I have a rust, please go
• 1:23:01
  to grow up to be a pirate. So, it was inevitable and, and
• 1:23:06
  God blessed Dallas Cabello. He's trying to give it a bit of
• 1:23:08
  color, but and, and because it's Doctor Who we do like those
• 1:23:12
  Larger than Life characters, but it does mean, it feels to me
• 1:23:18
  that everybody sort of pulling in different directions to try
• 1:23:20
  to make it interesting, because deep down, it's it's not that
• 1:23:25
  interesting and I love it because it's missing and I want
• 1:23:28
  to see it and and because it's, you know, we've had we've barely
• 1:23:32
  got A moving picture of it. It's it's great a great episode
• 1:23:35
  for Polly. It looks really cold when Ben
• 1:23:40
  falls into the black and white sea, you could almost say it's
• 1:23:43
  a, it's a watercolor challenge for him, which which seeing as
• 1:23:47
  Hannah Gordon is on hand is only appropriate and it's got a
• 1:23:51
  lovely cut Hannah, a young Hannah Gordon, Michael elwin
• 1:23:54
  still going strong, algodon Finch she was in House of the
• 1:23:57
  Dragon recently, great to see him still still having a great
• 1:24:01
  career. So it's got a, it's got a lovely
• 1:24:03
  cast list of gray. Is a good, is a good villain.
• 1:24:06
  I just think I watched Doctor Who.
• 1:24:11
  For something. that is more than Sort of Sunday afternoon, tea
• 1:24:18
  Time Adventure, and I think that's sort of what we get.
• 1:24:21
  It does have the humor, sure. But then, again, if you watch
• 1:24:24
  any 60s television to make things run for their running
• 1:24:28
  time, you'd have funny cameos in episode of lead cars.
• 1:24:31
  You know, you know, it was, it was part.
• 1:24:32
  It was not unique to Doctor Who that stylistically in the 60s
• 1:24:35
  actors were cheaper than anything else.
• 1:24:37
  Actors and dialogue were cheaper than anything else.
• 1:24:39
  So to fill out anything's running time, you'd have a funny
• 1:24:43
  Cameo character or you'd get an actor to do something to breathe
• 1:24:46
  a bit of life into it. So that's not unique to Doctor
• 1:24:48
  Who so it just and I love to see, I think those post battle
• 1:24:53
  scenes. Look fantastic, all of film
• 1:24:56
  stuff, looks really good as I suspected, it was really nice to
• 1:24:59
  directed, there's a dingus to it but I think it's just does too
• 1:25:07
  much the most things might do a not enough.
• 1:25:12
  That Doctor Who Uniquely does that if I'm going to have to be
• 1:25:17
  harsh and try to get rid of as close to 50% of the story as I
• 1:25:23
  can. The for me, the Highlanders will
• 1:25:27
  be my first casualty of season 4 and I will as Alan sugar says,
• 1:25:33
  when he's about to suck, somebody competent with regret
• 1:25:36
  for something for something that makes better television.
• 1:25:41
  You know, when you sort of pull the lever and throw something
• 1:25:43
  down, the trap door you list so many positives, there's about 15
• 1:25:47
  duvets waiting for them at the bottom.
• 1:25:49
  So that's from The Landing. But that's, that's great because
• 1:25:53
  I never really know where you're going to end up at the end of
• 1:25:55
  it. I'm like, I feel like it doesn't
• 1:25:57
  know. I feel so guilty.
• 1:25:58
  You know, I like I like Doctor Who and I particularly like, old
• 1:26:02
  and missing Doctor Who I Revere it, you know, I so I feel like
• 1:26:04
  I'm committing sacrilege, you know, It's nice to feel dirty
• 1:26:09
  twist in the life every now and again.
• 1:26:10
  Well, you might like feeling dirty.
• 1:26:12
  Yeah. I'm I would bring clean next to
• 1:26:16
  an order. I don't know quite where to go
• 1:26:27
  after that. Highlanders yeah.
• 1:26:30
  Oh been so many Old Days bar. Never brought any Kleenex.
• 1:26:34
  Should know what I am going to be in this because much like the
• 1:26:38
  massacre when we talked about that last season.
• 1:26:40
  Every time I experienced the story.
• 1:26:43
  Yeah, I love so much about it. I think the dialogues.
• 1:26:47
  Really funny. I think they are great before
• 1:26:49
  this, isn't it? I bet.
• 1:26:50
  Toby's, right. I'm gonna imagine this looked
• 1:26:52
  really good. Thank God, those Australians
• 1:26:55
  were as lily livered as they are because that's the only way we
• 1:26:58
  can actually see anything from this story, and just brief
• 1:27:02
  glimpses. It doesn't, she doesn't and
• 1:27:04
  Atmospheric in a way that good black and white Doctor Who does
• 1:27:09
  but, I never I can't ever remember a single thing about
• 1:27:14
  this story. Like Now, I've taken notes, I've
• 1:27:17
  got things to talk about, but tomorrow, if you said, what do
• 1:27:20
  you love about the Highlanders? I'll go.
• 1:27:22
  Oh, it's just one that goes in and out, and I don't think it's
• 1:27:27
  forgettable. So I think I'm probably the
• 1:27:29
  problem, but purely for the fact that it leaves no impression on
• 1:27:32
  me whatsoever. I want to bend it.
• 1:27:34
  However, I'm gonna do a role though, on this occasion, a Toby
• 1:27:38
  and say, three positive about it.
• 1:27:40
  Just sort of keep things because I really loved cursing in this
• 1:27:45
  and I think she's a great character and much like Sam
• 1:27:49
  Briggs in the faceless ones and I am the last time I'm going to
• 1:27:53
  say it this season after she might have been a more
• 1:27:56
  interesting person to come along in the Tardis at the end of the
• 1:27:59
  story. Then Jamie I think they could
• 1:28:01
  have done some really interesting things for that
• 1:28:03
  character. In a way that sort of the
• 1:28:05
  Bromance is great. But after evil of the Daleks,
• 1:28:08
  they really aren't doing anything with Jamie's character
• 1:28:10
  at all, whereas, I think they could do great things with
• 1:28:13
  Kirsty. And I think Hannah Gordon is
• 1:28:15
  excellent, and I think she should slap Polly around the
• 1:28:18
  face on a regular occasion, because She's just horrible,
• 1:28:22
  isn't she? I'm on, no, police introduced us
• 1:28:24
  this sort of upper class well to do secretary working in the post
• 1:28:30
  office tower but we have a really leant into that too much.
• 1:28:33
  But here you know which is going, you know, you stupid
• 1:28:35
  primitive, you ignorant savage. You know, she's really unlike
• 1:28:40
  oh, that's a quick side note. I would like to say I've just
• 1:28:42
  read Annika Wheels as stunning two book, autobiography naked
• 1:28:47
  and I can't remember the other one.
• 1:28:48
  Now, the thing she was going through when she was making
• 1:28:52
  Doctor Who and she delivered. Those performance.
• 1:28:55
  Is you never could tell, could you?
• 1:28:57
  It is astonishing that autobiography.
• 1:29:01
  What a life anyway. Sorry back to the Highlanders.
• 1:29:04
  Yeah, so I really love Kirsty. I think Hannah Gordon is a
• 1:29:07
  terrific actress and I would love for her to come along at
• 1:29:10
  the End plus all. So kind of vicariously, the
• 1:29:14
  Highlanders introduced me to watercolor challenge, which is
• 1:29:17
  absolutely like television, ther for me, I'll just sit back and
• 1:29:22
  I'll just feel great after I've watched it and Hannah Gordon
• 1:29:25
  hosts it with absolute Grace and charm, Her rather Highlanders.
• 1:29:29
  I really like the ending which is changed at the last minute
• 1:29:34
  because it just sort of close to show how improvised Doctor Who
• 1:29:38
  was at the time that they could make a last minute decision on a
• 1:29:43
  hunch that this lad could be a good addition to the crew and
• 1:29:47
  fundamentally changed the entire rest of the hero on just a whim.
• 1:29:52
  And I just love the fact that that could happen.
• 1:29:54
  So I really like the fact that I like about that, though, it
• 1:29:58
  doesn't quite work because of the ends up in the Tardis, but I
• 1:30:00
  do like that Jamie's. I know what, I'm not gonna
• 1:30:04
  escape to France. This this is my country and
• 1:30:08
  they're not going to kick me out and then that joke coming this
• 1:30:10
  time machine. Yeah.
• 1:30:11
  All right. So it's a shame that it does end
• 1:30:15
  up the way it does. And also it's a shame that at
• 1:30:18
  the end of the war games, he just gets sent right back to
• 1:30:21
  that with a soldier coming towards.
• 1:30:22
  That's right, is that I feel like orders being restored at
• 1:30:26
  the end of the war games as almost gone?
• 1:30:28
  No. This is how the time line should
• 1:30:30
  have been, you know, sleep in office in their back to certain
• 1:30:33
  death. Yeah, and the doctor is ha ha.
• 1:30:36
  This Kill someone first, they butchered a man first.
• 1:30:43
  Um I do I love the comedy in this and I do think trout is
• 1:30:47
  great but I I can see a nervous actor feeling his way into the
• 1:30:52
  role. And actually it's really
• 1:30:53
  interesting when Peart comes along the spirit from space
• 1:30:55
  within one story, he finds a doctor doesn't mean so quickly.
• 1:30:59
  So confidently and he's, you know, the less confident actor.
• 1:31:02
  But I think maybe he wasn't given enough Direction.
• 1:31:06
  I don't know. I just think in parallel, the
• 1:31:07
  Daleks the Highlanders and we'll get to the underwater Menace
• 1:31:11
  because of course, I'm gonna choose that next I think you see
• 1:31:15
  an act of feeling his way into the role and some sort of the
• 1:31:18
  macroptera, he's formed, you know, he's an architect, he's,
• 1:31:21
  he's brilliant. But yeah, I just, it's the same
• 1:31:24
  feeling I get with Tom Baker, in his first couple of stories.
• 1:31:27
  Actually, sort of, how am I gonna do this?
• 1:31:29
  And the other thing I really love about this is from those
• 1:31:33
  scenes, you those things that you can see you see, you know, a
• 1:31:37
  hanging in process. You see, people being stabbed
• 1:31:40
  and shot and we know Ben's thrown in the sea and almost
• 1:31:43
  drowned. And I just love how Bloody and
• 1:31:46
  violent this story convey, because I love a bit of that
• 1:31:48
  Doctor Who. And yeah, I don't think it's too
• 1:31:51
  much of a problem to balance the violence and the comedy, because
• 1:31:55
  I think Doctor Who does it a lot.
• 1:31:57
  If you look at Cross, all of the Doctor Who there's a lot of
• 1:31:59
  violence in every story and there's usually a lot gags, but
• 1:32:03
  I like I do. I like the dirtiness of the
• 1:32:07
  black and white historicals. I think there's an atmosphere to
• 1:32:10
  those that no other doctor who has.
• 1:32:12
  And I think this has got it in space.
• 1:32:14
  So there's lots, I love about this stuff he but tomorrow I
• 1:32:19
  will be able to tell you anyone of them.
• 1:32:20
  So it's kind of been Well, he's going in the bin because that's
• 1:32:23
  too far. My coloring plan worked.
• 1:32:26
  It didn't matter what I said. Yeah.
• 1:32:29
  Well, I would have put this one through because I quite like the
• 1:32:32
  Highlanders. I mean you've highlighted a lot
• 1:32:34
  of things I wanted to mention but we'll talk a little bit
• 1:32:37
  about the doctor because it is interesting because Lloyd and
• 1:32:40
  Davis. They've just got a bizarre
• 1:32:42
  approach the show's lead. I think at this point.
• 1:32:44
  So they've dropped dodo like a stone.
• 1:32:47
  They're going to drop Ben and Polly.
• 1:32:49
  Is we've already talked about even though their companions
• 1:32:51
  that this team of produce and scripture that's brought in.
• 1:32:55
  So it's even doubly confusing that they bring these characters
• 1:32:58
  in Joe, is you rightly said, so give her, you know, fresh boost
• 1:33:01
  to the show and then they just drop them.
• 1:33:02
  He had no boyfriend. No been like, and give him the
• 1:33:06
  world in the first year and eventually just gone out Buckle
• 1:33:09
  off for you. I'm not just you string of
• 1:33:15
  broken hearts. They had Jamie at the last
• 1:33:18
  minute here, but they don't really know what to do with him.
• 1:33:21
  They try and convince Pauline Collins to come on boards, we've
• 1:33:24
  talked about, they can't do that.
• 1:33:25
  So with the companions, they feel it feels Really flabby what
• 1:33:29
  they do with the companions, but they are giving a hell of a lot
• 1:33:32
  of thought the doctor and think, what?
• 1:33:34
  They're doing with here. Yes, I completely agree with
• 1:33:37
  what you're saying trout and is feeling his way.
• 1:33:39
  What I think they're trying to do is production team.
• 1:33:42
  He's giving things but differentiate him completely
• 1:33:45
  from heart of. I don't think that is the key
• 1:33:48
  message of what they're doing here.
• 1:33:49
  So compare it with say the war games which is also, you know,
• 1:33:52
  Lloyd and Davis. Their Hartnell does the same.
• 1:33:55
  He walks in his pretending to be someone else but it's just his
• 1:33:58
  forcefulness and his presence and his gravitas he just takes
• 1:34:02
  Commander that situation straight away and he's he's him
• 1:34:05
  he's not putting on any airs and Graces.
• 1:34:07
  But here, Charlton starts off by assuming this comedy role of a
• 1:34:12
  German doctor of on there and he proceeds to invade himself by
• 1:34:15
  deception and celiacs and tying someone up and shoving him in a
• 1:34:19
  cupboard. Oh, it's a completely different
• 1:34:21
  approach, Toby right. So three, he's the old washer
• 1:34:25
  woman for the entire episode. And a little bit of episode 2,
• 1:34:29
  the episode 4, he's playing a soldier with another comedy
• 1:34:32
  accent, so can't believe you're condemning someone drank it up.
• 1:34:36
  I'm not condemning, I'm loving it.
• 1:34:38
  I think that's great. But it is, they are setting him
• 1:34:44
  apart from a harm or Heartland would never have taken such a
• 1:34:47
  comedic approach to the doctor, how you would not have stayed in
• 1:34:55
  Disguise, not in dressing up. This guy's whole of a story.
• 1:34:58
  So, I think what they are doing is, they are reinforcing your,
• 1:35:01
  it's easy for us now. To sit back and say, oh yes,
• 1:35:03
  this is Patrick Robinson, Second Story, blah blah.
• 1:35:06
  But when you watching it to the time in 1966, as audience, much
• 1:35:09
  still have been, they're still getting used to this new guy in
• 1:35:12
  the Tardis. So the production team is trying
• 1:35:15
  to do very, very different things to set him apart from
• 1:35:18
  what went before. So you're not getting a carbon
• 1:35:21
  copy of harm or I think for that I would absolutely Lord.
• 1:35:24
  I think that's a great thing they're doing and they're still
• 1:35:27
  at elements of. Do we trust him or not?
• 1:35:29
  When he leaves all the prisoners in the south in episode 2 been
• 1:35:33
  by that point is yeah I think this is a rose banned on the
• 1:35:36
  Scots on shore. Are they sure about?
• 1:35:40
  I mean, the other thing that really strikes me in this story
• 1:35:42
  and I know you guys have already talked about it, but ultimately
• 1:35:45
  the doctor is gone running in this episode, which is quite an
• 1:35:49
  odd thing to put in that. I'm not quite sure how
• 1:35:51
  comfortable I feel with that? Yes, obviously, you know, there
• 1:35:54
  are lots of stories where where doctor gives arms to the hey,
• 1:35:58
  it's just so blatant that he's assembling all these muskets and
• 1:36:02
  swords and just giving them to one side to fight the other.
• 1:36:05
  It's It's a little bit of an action for a doctor to do what?
• 1:36:09
  Yeah. I think you should keep an eye
• 1:36:12
  on the second doctor for his entire era because I don't think
• 1:36:16
  he ever drops that. I'll just think he gets a lot
• 1:36:19
  better, you know. So you can on a smile, I'm being
• 1:36:22
  cute about it. Yes.
• 1:36:23
  Yeah, I'm twisting buttons when nobody's looking like between
• 1:36:26
  the side here. Actually physically putting into
• 1:36:29
  a sailboat muskets and swords and guns and just pushing it.
• 1:36:33
  Come on. It's getting rid of the heart.
• 1:36:36
  He just bite some Pirates. You know.
• 1:36:39
  Well, yeah, come along, make this horse and his Dallas
• 1:36:51
  Cowboys, okay? Second reason I was talking
• 1:37:01
  through was again, you guys have already touched it, the dark
• 1:37:04
  history, there's so much about you know, the doctor being and
• 1:37:07
  that's jail cell in episode two. I just think it's such a great
• 1:37:10
  bit of design because usually a doctor who sells his dry and
• 1:37:13
  warm. There's usually bits of hay on
• 1:37:15
  the floor because it's just been wheeled from props.
• 1:37:17
  But hey, you've got like a multi-level jail cell with the
• 1:37:21
  soldiers looking down on all the prisoners and the prisoners are
• 1:37:24
  standing in water. She called the impression of
• 1:37:26
  kind of disease and felt this song so it feels much dirtier
• 1:37:30
  and buy me a story. So, Scale of sort of a doctor
• 1:37:34
  who sell is how much will Susan sniffle in it?
• 1:37:38
  How where does this fare? All this is Susan, would have
• 1:37:42
  just she never fallen over. If you've been in water my God,
• 1:37:46
  she saw a bit of hay and she was screaming.
• 1:37:50
  So, yeah, I think this is really done, don't forget, the gray was
• 1:37:52
  a real historical correctly. Was a person who genuinely sold
• 1:37:56
  jacobites as slaves to the West Indies.
• 1:37:58
  So, we are doing some quite dark history here.
• 1:38:01
  And then my favorite was gonna be Toby.
• 1:38:03
  You said as well. That is a really handsome
• 1:38:05
  production. We got a large customers, a hell
• 1:38:07
  of a lot of extras in here, as I can tell from the Italian snaps
• 1:38:11
  whether it's the Pirates on the ship or was Prisoners in the
• 1:38:13
  South. I think the design looks lovely,
• 1:38:15
  was shooting for four part. Doctors who was shooting,
• 1:38:18
  Riverside. When eeling for the tank work.
• 1:38:20
  We've got location work. Putting a lot of time and effort
• 1:38:23
  into this. I really like this one.
• 1:38:25
  I had to put it through but you guys and me, I'm your Hosting it
• 1:38:29
  aside. Well a church Halls, like Ben
• 1:38:31
  Jeff Kirkland, the designer of this.
• 1:38:33
  And the faceless ones went to Hollywood to design and art
• 1:38:36
  Direction. He's worked on Oscar nominated
• 1:38:38
  Productions. Yeah, wow.
• 1:38:40
  Well, I just want to fly if anybody listening or she could
• 1:38:45
  sells and if you do want to see a bit of 60s telling the does
• 1:38:49
  exist, you know, and it's full form and covers come on novel.
• 1:38:55
  Peter Watkins is Culloden from the year prior to this is
• 1:39:00
  fantastic. It's basically the story of
• 1:39:03
  cologne but he films it as if it's a news broadcast at the
• 1:39:08
  time. So he like the interviewing
• 1:39:10
  jacobites and English soldiers and stuff of that.
• 1:39:13
  It's phenomenally good. Well, one Dragon up in it.
• 1:39:17
  Nice. Not as far as I can remember.
• 1:39:19
  One of the people interviewed in it is because he used
• 1:39:22
  non-professional. Actors is Daryl Blake.
• 1:39:23
  The designer of the director of the stones of blood, he was a
• 1:39:28
  designer and who I think at one point shared a flat with Jeff
• 1:39:31
  Kirkland who designed the Highlanders and Peter Watkins
• 1:39:36
  directed, not the war games. But the war game War Games was a
• 1:39:40
  similar documentary style thing about the aftermath of a nuclear
• 1:39:44
  war, which is scary than anything that's else that's
• 1:39:47
  ever. Been scared and threads because
• 1:39:49
  he got married, it was properly bad.
• 1:39:51
  And actually, the only reason that ever got broadcast from
• 1:39:53
  British television was because of threads.
• 1:39:55
  So threads went out in the 80s. And stabilize almost people seem
• 1:40:00
  a bit more comfortable. Now, watching nuclear
• 1:40:02
  Devastation. So we put on war game.
• 1:40:04
  Well, they didn't just put on the organization, the BBC did a
• 1:40:08
  nuclear apocalypse season, that's about what's gonna happen
• 1:40:13
  to us all very soon. And because it had been bound I
• 1:40:17
  was I was into archive stuff, even then I was a oh well, this
• 1:40:20
  will be exciting. I was because it was banned and
• 1:40:22
  I didn't sleep that night and I really oh yeah, yeah, see you
• 1:40:28
  watching those things. Sorry, how will it?
• 1:40:31
  I think that was probably about 1985, was it marked?
• 1:40:34
  So I would have been 11. Oh gosh, I think it was called,
• 1:40:37
  and yeah, yeah, there's the height I want to race last year
• 1:40:40
  for the first time, but I'm still scared.
• 1:40:42
  Yeah, my walking I think it's that heart little historical
• 1:40:46
  thing. You know, it's the black and
• 1:40:48
  white. Yeah, and the film just makes it
• 1:40:51
  just happy isn't. Okay.
• 1:40:53
  Yeah. Upsetting you know it's yeah,
• 1:40:55
  it's it's like you're being haunted in a way that color I
• 1:41:00
  could buy this for ghosts. Well, I'm going to segue as
• 1:41:03
  perfectly. We're talking about totally
• 1:41:05
  horrific television. Let's go to the underwater
• 1:41:08
  Menace and Joe, there's not Mucky at all.
• 1:41:11
  It's just fabulous. I think this is where Patrick
• 1:41:14
  trout on arrives. Actually.
• 1:41:16
  I like people say it's when he met is, you know, Nemesis
• 1:41:19
  Morris, Barry in the moon base, who said, no, no, we're not
• 1:41:22
  doing none of that clowned around.
• 1:41:23
  You hit your marks, say your lines, or we'll do it again.
• 1:41:26
  I think when trout admit Joseph first in the underwater Menace
• 1:41:31
  because he's it is first two story.
• 1:41:32
  He's the mad over the top one, you know, and everyone sort of
• 1:41:35
  around here he's met his match. You know, I am not gonna top
• 1:41:40
  that Jesus Christ, he's somewhere in the stratosphere,
• 1:41:42
  I'm gonna have to bring it down and watch him in episode 2 and
• 1:41:47
  that when he started literally looking around the room, he's
• 1:41:50
  doing business everywhere. He's a thinking Dockside, you
• 1:41:53
  know, but silently and that's what we're missing.
• 1:41:56
  And all those animations is all that unspoken body language.
• 1:42:00
  That trout brought to the role and he's just submit it.
• 1:42:03
  Of course, he can play The Comedy as well when he's having
• 1:42:05
  a great time. Yeah, in episode 3, when he's in
• 1:42:08
  the market in the sunnies and all that, but I think this is
• 1:42:11
  the first time. Yeah.
• 1:42:12
  Trout stocks are He is totally anarchic in this story, isn't he
• 1:42:17
  is a bit of a force of nature. But this is where he arrives,
• 1:42:20
  how many things are there to love about the underwater
• 1:42:24
  Menace. The craziest Doctor Who story
• 1:42:26
  that never should have hit the screen.
• 1:42:28
  What was the story called The imps?
• 1:42:30
  I think the imps was going to be made, wasn't it?
• 1:42:32
  And then at the last minute, it was shoved out and this was
• 1:42:36
  rushed into production. So the fact that this looks as
• 1:42:41
  good as it does give and it was pulled together so quickly
• 1:42:45
  because I think there's elements of this, the location work that
• 1:42:48
  fantastic. And those statue that whole set
• 1:42:51
  candle is beautiful. So the market and from the Telly
• 1:42:56
  snaps, it looks like they managed to pull off a reasonable
• 1:43:00
  Sinking Atlantis in a way that, that long shot in the time
• 1:43:03
  monster has bits of Jabba like being a frown into that open
• 1:43:06
  University set utterly failed to do so, I think.
• 1:43:10
  Yeah, it's Julia. Julia Smith is EastEnders.
• 1:43:14
  Julius Smith I know it's, however, hell of a switch from
• 1:43:17
  this to EastEnders, you know, unpopular with the cast,
• 1:43:20
  apparently trial. And by all accounts, there was a
• 1:43:23
  bit of contention there. But you know what, she's giving
• 1:43:26
  she's been handed this. Bloody awful script and she's
• 1:43:30
  gonna bring it to the screen. Come hell or high water.
• 1:43:32
  Joseph first, I mean you can't take your eyes off him can you
• 1:43:36
  all the way through when I saw him in that bomb movie?
• 1:43:39
  I mean I almost missed him because I was like who the hell
• 1:43:43
  is that? I'm to play next week he's just
• 1:43:46
  glorious every line reading. I like big Camp, Doctor Who.
• 1:43:50
  So this is my sort of villain and you know Shity lines, you
• 1:43:54
  know, have and I said I do that. Haven't I haven't I you know all
• 1:43:58
  that. You know, I shall send you back
• 1:43:59
  to your beloved goddess and oh this bullshit.
• 1:44:03
  It's given to say he chews up and spits it out in a way that
• 1:44:07
  only William Shatner could do it.
• 1:44:08
  Otherwise, I think he is glorious.
• 1:44:11
  And he's got a pelt Octopus as well.
• 1:44:14
  And more villains should have a pelvis.
• 1:44:16
  He's a bond villain, basically, isn't it?
• 1:44:18
  And he's insane plan, so he's destroyed the entire world in
• 1:44:24
  the result including him. I how the fuck would anyone know
• 1:44:28
  he did it? You know, he's got a blow up the
• 1:44:30
  planet, that's suction know. He's gonna have to send a boy up
• 1:44:34
  into space that says professors, that there's some comparisons to
• 1:44:51
  be made with makers here. And how this is essentially a
• 1:44:54
  big pantomime for the first three episodes and then it turns
• 1:44:57
  into sort of Disaster Movie at the end.
• 1:44:58
  But emphasis is key. And where was that, when from
• 1:45:02
  high sophisticated comedy to absolutely chilling drama, this
• 1:45:07
  goes from ridiculous pants of. I am to well a slightly less
• 1:45:11
  pantomimic version of a disaster movie, but I do like the fact
• 1:45:15
  that it goes from one to the other.
• 1:45:18
  Praise the highest and Michael crays are both in rubber in this
• 1:45:22
  story and that alone with sorry. Toby would be enough for me to
• 1:45:25
  put it through. If it's, all right, for Joe
• 1:45:27
  also, it's all right, for me. All right.
• 1:45:29
  And finally, after I've done 15 points here, the Mad set pieces
• 1:45:36
  in this story, I mean, how they ever thought they could do it,
• 1:45:39
  the sinking of the city. As I said, the dance of the fish
• 1:45:42
  people. This operatic ballet on the
• 1:45:45
  strings. Okay.
• 1:45:46
  It's the most lackluster Rebellion.
• 1:45:49
  You're ever going to see on Doctor Who but it's sort of
• 1:45:52
  beautiful. If you squint a little bit and I
• 1:45:54
  love the crazy music in that scene as well, the song called
• 1:45:57
  me, you see him soon. Yes, fabulous and and I do a lot
• 1:46:03
  of the facts well, that we start the story on this glorious
• 1:46:05
  location and we end up in a true James Bond style descending for
• 1:46:10
  a Volkswagen short from above, but this a real visual invention
• 1:46:14
  in this. It's utter grandfather, it's
• 1:46:17
  very embarrassing to anybody who's not Doctor Who fan and to
• 1:46:21
  most Doctor Who fans. But I think this is a story that
• 1:46:25
  doesn't really hang around being one thing for too long.
• 1:46:28
  Everybody's having fun and so am I please, let's put through the
• 1:46:34
  insane. Professors are off.
• 1:46:36
  Let's just go to the comments. Paul Quinn says what the fuck
• 1:46:39
  was Jeffrey on doing writing for Doctor Who nothing in his CV
• 1:46:44
  suggests, he was a natural fit even his episode of The
• 1:46:47
  Avengers. So this is shit it's all very
• 1:46:50
  enjoyable and jolly in an arch fashion but revisionism aside,
• 1:46:55
  it's shit. Yes.
• 1:46:57
  But I'd like Toby I can watch Doctor Who just for the fact
• 1:47:00
  that shit, you know, I do like that.
• 1:47:03
  And also this is a podcast, you know, recorded a long.
• 1:47:06
  So Revisionism Reigns Supreme, you know, so like let's get into
• 1:47:12
  it. Let's revise Paul.
• 1:47:14
  Dunn says Darth fun, poor old. Ben has to split his lines with
• 1:47:18
  Jamie a sign that the writing is on the wall for him, rather like
• 1:47:20
  the fish people and Joseph, first clearly enjoying himself.
• 1:47:23
  Damn Holland's was said marvelous in his animated form,
• 1:47:26
  which shows off its potential as an exaggerated silly cartoony
• 1:47:30
  style story, much better than 1967 BBC, budget could do Jack
• 1:47:35
  o'ya. The closest thing to a 50s Bee
• 1:47:37
  Movie. Oh, that's probably why I like
• 1:47:38
  this so much, you know, I was brought up on Bee movies.
• 1:47:41
  Yeah, you could imagine. Rocky Horror Show fans enjoying
• 1:47:44
  this. I love Rocky Horror, being
• 1:47:46
  confronted, with whatever Joseph's doing trout and raise
• 1:47:49
  his game, delivering one of his strongest performers.
• 1:47:51
  So far, raise a Gregory champion of the damn says, an utter
• 1:47:55
  delight and he killed surprise. Any killed Joy from the fun.
• 1:48:04
  Police who don't like this can get in the sea.
• 1:48:06
  This is Bonkers. Brilliant and above all
• 1:48:08
  entertaining. Nothing in the world.
• 1:48:11
  Can stop it now. David Gillespie Pratt.
• 1:48:15
  Oh, what level, utter crap? Episode 3 is a bit of a slap
• 1:48:19
  Dash miss. When episode 2 came back, it
• 1:48:21
  showed the story in a much better light.
• 1:48:23
  It's where we get to see try and finally honing in on how he
• 1:48:26
  wants to play the Doctor James, how to invent, says makes, no
• 1:48:29
  sense is cliche, ridden, padded and badly acted.
• 1:48:32
  It's also one of the most gloriously watchable stories as
• 1:48:35
  one of the best Cliffhangers on what looks to be a, damn
• 1:48:38
  impressive, flooding seen, definitely key.
• 1:48:41
  Steve Miller. The Good Bonkers plot and the
• 1:48:43
  docs disguises. The bad Ott villain grab a beer,
• 1:48:47
  lower your standards, and embrace the madness.
• 1:48:50
  You might just enjoy it. Oh, we don't want to hear that.
• 1:48:56
  Paul, press this enjoyable. Even if it's sometimes in a so
• 1:49:01
  bad, it's good way. And it does feature been in a
• 1:49:04
  rubber suit. So it should go through on that
• 1:49:05
  basis alone. Mad Paddington who wins the best
• 1:49:09
  name on Twitter. So I really love this worth it
• 1:49:12
  for the fish people on wire scene, which is just gorgeous.
• 1:49:15
  Definitely doesn't deserve his reputation.
• 1:49:17
  Around says, utterly Bonkers are not about romp and I love it
• 1:49:21
  sometimes. You just want to repeat it
• 1:49:23
  escape and capture routine and dangerous.
• 1:49:25
  Tunnels, I love the Ben and doctor stuff in part four.
• 1:49:28
  Yep. I'm a fan of this Daniel Knight
• 1:49:31
  a shambles. But we've charm trout, and
• 1:49:34
  settles down a bit, but the companions don't get much to do
• 1:49:37
  the fish. People look nice and the guy
• 1:49:38
  playing lowland ramps up, always great.
• 1:49:41
  And It's not really, it's not the Philippines.
• 1:49:44
  It's Cyril Cyril from the room. Yeah.
• 1:49:48
  Oh, where was I? Sorry, runs up the camp making
• 1:49:51
  Joseph First Look, restrained, Mason Thompson said I can never
• 1:49:55
  decide what I think about her but I keep it for the final part
• 1:49:58
  with the water slowly. Inundating Atlantis.
• 1:50:01
  Providing a real sense of encroaching dread as everyone
• 1:50:03
  struggles upward to avoid it better than its reputation.
• 1:50:06
  I think people pee as animated, the fish people at least look as
• 1:50:10
  if they're on strike. I can imagine a horrific
• 1:50:12
  rendering where the striker shot as a terrifying Uprising.
• 1:50:15
  But this doesn't come close. I do I do all the story though.
• 1:50:18
  Especially sour off that overall.
• 1:50:20
  It's a mess. Michael storms is absolutely
• 1:50:22
  batshit crazy. The dialogue is ridiculous.
• 1:50:25
  The performance is insane. Zaroff's, plans are just
• 1:50:28
  demented to the design is laughably bad.
• 1:50:31
  But I can't help but loving this, absolute dogs in the store
• 1:50:34
  right? Lucy McCall.
• 1:50:36
  I love the design the ambition and the absolute commitment of
• 1:50:39
  everyone involved. It also has one of my favorite
• 1:50:42
  interactions between the doctor and Ben what in those trials Jim
• 1:50:46
  Allenby says a Darth comic book adventure but there's a point
• 1:50:49
  around the end of episode 2 where trout and suddenly slips
• 1:50:52
  into the version of his doctor. We all know and love the
• 1:50:56
  campiness patrol, a criminally underrated, Camp, classic but
• 1:50:59
  perfect, not perfect, but our bloody good time of full of fun
• 1:51:05
  ideas. The fish people are strikingly
• 1:51:07
  avant-garde. And finally, the lovely Joe
• 1:51:10
  short gives us all the direction, Let It win, just for
• 1:51:13
  the shits and giggles. Could I just like one extra
• 1:51:16
  thing that I didn't say? And that is, I've got another
• 1:51:19
  companion that I'd like to jump into the Tardis and that is the
• 1:51:22
  gorgeous arrow in this. Who's just so great.
• 1:51:26
  She's a kid. She's only about 16, how she's
• 1:51:30
  got real. I couldn't take my eyes on her
• 1:51:32
  watching it today and she's very naturalistic.
• 1:51:34
  Yeah, great. I made all the chaos Toby, you
• 1:51:38
  told me, I couldn't throw any personal stories into this,
• 1:51:41
  otherwise you get your violins. I have got a personal story but
• 1:51:44
  it does not involve puppies know there are no puppets, right?
• 1:51:47
  Oh no you're not this old. You've never watched this on
• 1:51:50
  ambition. No I'm not.
• 1:51:51
  I have to hold my hand up. I have a personal interest in
• 1:51:55
  the story so I don't know whether I need to be excused
• 1:51:58
  because personally trust. So in the late 90s my mother
• 1:52:02
  told me that my great aunt. So my grandmother sister so my
• 1:52:08
  mother's aren't as were I told my mother that cousin Julia's
• 1:52:13
  just died and I think cousin Julia was somebody that worked
• 1:52:16
  in television. Hang on, Julia Smith.
• 1:52:22
  Your cousin who's Julius Smith? Oh yeah, she had something to do
• 1:52:25
  with EastEnders, I think, and I'm like, no Doctor Who.
• 1:52:29
  So I was related to Julius, I didn't know.
• 1:52:33
  It had been around there with a microphone baby on that one for
• 1:52:40
  a while. So yeah, so and nobody better
• 1:52:45
  come for Julius Smith tonight. That's Aaliyah sacred.
• 1:52:48
  Aren't you Julia? Anyway, so I am the woman, did
• 1:52:52
  you? I'm overreacting my part of it.
• 1:52:59
  I am absolutely gonna put this one through as well.
• 1:53:02
  First reason I want to put this through, I just think the
• 1:53:04
  ambition of this. Whatever you say about Lloyd and
• 1:53:08
  Davis, you cannot say that they're not prepared to take on
• 1:53:11
  a challenge. So, they told, what does the
• 1:53:14
  script involve? Well, the doctrine, the team
• 1:53:16
  they land on a volcanic island. The Descendants, the depths of
• 1:53:19
  the earth, they meet an entire Atlantean culture, where there's
• 1:53:23
  temples and idols and marketplaces, you got Atlantean
• 1:53:26
  leaders, religious zealots scientists and regular Atlantis,
• 1:53:31
  going about their business. We got their hero, Our Heroes
• 1:53:33
  about to be sacrificed to a tank of sharks for Christ's sake or
• 1:53:38
  is interested in that sacrificial table has just four
• 1:53:40
  places. Just right for the doctrine is
• 1:53:42
  three companions, but let's leave that one aside.
• 1:53:45
  Then you've got fish people Half, Men, half fish.
• 1:53:48
  They've got a swim in the scene revolts against them for us.
• 1:53:51
  Then on top of all that you've got caves and mines and tunnels,
• 1:53:54
  you got rocky outcrops, they got a climb up and then you got all
• 1:53:58
  the zaroff's equipments and power and Borough tree.
• 1:54:02
  This is in the budget of a 1964 Park 2 story.
• 1:54:05
  Do you imagine the William M script was a little less
• 1:54:08
  ambitious. I think probably.
• 1:54:10
  So I don't know how they had the balls to take this on and do it.
• 1:54:13
  I think they do. There are some times it shows
• 1:54:16
  there's a sequence in episode 2, where troutman's running down
• 1:54:19
  the corridor, and there's just a wardrobe in the middle of a
• 1:54:23
  trouble. And he gets into the Wardrobe
• 1:54:25
  changes clothes, why is just a normal fucking wardrobe in the
• 1:54:29
  middle of summer? It's crazy.
• 1:54:31
  Did you just say sometimes it shows?
• 1:54:33
  Okay. Yeah, that point.
• 1:54:36
  I just think that ambition of doing this is just amazing.
• 1:54:40
  Second reason is the campus. So if we accept the definition
• 1:54:44
  of Camp is something that's appealing or amusing because of
• 1:54:47
  artifice or affectation or exaggeration than by Christ this
• 1:54:52
  absolutely qualifies under that Don't think any further along
• 1:54:57
  and we've mentioned him already. He is the Christopher Biggins of
• 1:55:00
  Atlantis, this name. He's checking wasn't Chris
• 1:55:04
  forbidden. Another reason there is a little
• 1:55:06
  about it, he's got that fucking mad hat on that.
• 1:55:10
  All the priests were just the craziest bit of Hotwire and then
• 1:55:14
  he's surrounded by people who are the carrying these fish
• 1:55:16
  masks, which are wonderfully, designed large fists, or you've
• 1:55:21
  got men wandering around in PVC rubber.
• 1:55:23
  I mean, he's Delight when he thinks that under spirited the
• 1:55:28
  doctor away, it's just a thing of computing.
• 1:55:31
  Then you've got the fish ballet. You've got Sean Penn and Jamie
• 1:55:35
  Tropic around the tunnels. There is research, the joke
• 1:55:38
  about the Irishman, the cochlea, and the Scotsman, who walk into
• 1:55:40
  a pub, he got Colin Chief and his magnificence eyebrows, he
• 1:55:45
  got no, John Cena, get real rather performance.
• 1:55:48
  And again, all of this booking Madness, you've got good old
• 1:55:53
  professors are off, there's nothing in the world.
• 1:55:56
  Can stop me now. So many better.
• 1:55:58
  I love about when he's laughing manically at beginning of
• 1:56:00
  episode one friend to feed the doctor, to his pet octopus, or
• 1:56:04
  the best bet that I love is when he confronts through the leader
• 1:56:08
  in part, three, in the doctor, said, look at his eyes, you'll
• 1:56:11
  see them his eyes, really, I'm gonna come close to me, let me
• 1:56:20
  feel the aura of your goodness. Just its Glory Glory.
• 1:56:27
  And then the last reason I don't know why I put this down.
• 1:56:30
  I don't know why I feel this. I love the characters and the
• 1:56:34
  story. I don't, I can't quite work out
• 1:56:36
  why it's absolutely stuffed with characters, but I feel for the
• 1:56:39
  more than a lot of other characters, there will be some
• 1:56:42
  stories coming up. I don't feel quite as strongly
• 1:56:44
  for the characters and they're pretty thin here, but I really
• 1:56:47
  feel strongly for so Ramos. So the priest it was always been
• 1:56:50
  distrustful of Zaroff. No one's believe.
• 1:56:52
  Now, I love that scene with him and the doctor in episode 2.
• 1:56:55
  When the doctor kind of demonstrates how the world will
• 1:56:58
  be blown up and he uses the little jar.
• 1:57:00
  I just think Ramos really interesting Arrow.
• 1:57:02
  Joe, you just mentioned are Strikes up a great rapport with
• 1:57:06
  Polly. I'm even rooting for Jaco and
• 1:57:09
  Sean. I mean, they're really thinly
• 1:57:10
  drawn, but they enter into the fun Spirits off.
• 1:57:12
  And when Sean is encouraging, the fish people to revolt and
• 1:57:15
  they're just throwing crap at him.
• 1:57:17
  It's just you do one run, what level?
• 1:57:20
  What the hell am I watching? It's a personal color in the
• 1:57:22
  60s. That survives a story about
• 1:57:25
  Miracle, whom you, and he's interesting as well.
• 1:57:28
  So, I just think about campus ambition and characters.
• 1:57:32
  This is absolutely got to go through, its marvelous Toby
• 1:57:36
  underwater minutes. Now I have a personal story with
• 1:57:43
  this that I alluded to when we discussed the faces with, you
• 1:57:47
  know, aside from you know the five phases of Doctor Who and
• 1:57:50
  Doctor Who in the monsters, the idea that one would be able to
• 1:57:55
  watch. old Doctor Who, what was was only at the whims of BBC
• 1:58:03
  video and then you got, you know, edited together stories
• 1:58:06
  with with newly made closing credits that were in the same
• 1:58:10
  order, as they've been on the Telly which made the cross and
• 1:58:14
  but the idea that you would see Old Doctor Who was was like a
• 1:58:19
  pipe dream. It was a fantasy and and then I
• 1:58:24
  boy with the background story, but then I got into a position
• 1:58:28
  where I was able to get hold of old episode.
• 1:58:30
  So the first tape I got was orphaned trout in seven episodes
• 1:58:37
  per e180 tape, we could get. And, and so the first of those
• 1:58:42
  was, of course, the underwater Menace, part 3.
• 1:58:45
  And I remember getting it back and getting it home and watching
• 1:58:48
  it. And That title sequence unfold
• 1:58:53
  and it was like, I was blowing the dust off, an ancient volume.
• 1:58:57
  And, you know, you could smell the history and it was like I
• 1:59:01
  was watching calligraphy written by some ancient holy man, you
• 1:59:06
  know, and and a portal to another world.
• 1:59:08
  It was also a magical. And then my God, the music
• 1:59:11
  carried on into the action. Is that how they did it in those
• 1:59:14
  days? Because, you know, you know, the
• 1:59:16
  door opens Sarah off walks, in the music, carries on the type,
• 1:59:19
  that the title of the episode appears over the action.
• 1:59:22
  I'm like, oh, it's, is that how they did it?
• 1:59:24
  This is because I've never seen any of this stuff.
• 1:59:26
  I I didn't even I didn't know, there was no target novel of the
• 1:59:29
  underwater Menace at that point. So I didn't really know what
• 1:59:32
  happened in the story either. I think I probably know I had
• 1:59:35
  all I really knew was right in to Celebration and that was that
• 1:59:38
  Joseph first. Gives a shield Gene Wilder asked
• 1:59:41
  before and there's genuine flooding in episode 4.
• 1:59:43
  I think I knew the fish people dance was gonna happen.
• 1:59:47
  And then the closing credits happened and Zaroff gets second
• 1:59:51
  billing because I didn't realize that what happened was that the
• 1:59:54
  doctor gets credited first. And then it's everybody in order
• 1:59:56
  of appearance. So there's all these things, let
• 1:59:59
  alone what's happening in the story is itself, and the
• 2:00:01
  promises. There's all these things that
• 2:00:02
  make me just look. I'm like, I'm looking at another
• 2:00:05
  world. It's like, I've opened the
• 2:00:07
  Wardrobe and Narnia, is there in in third generation monochrome
• 2:00:12
  grayscale. And so, it is magical to me,
• 2:00:16
  this episode, it is no one will ever take away from the fact
• 2:00:21
  that this really was the first of the Dead Sea Scrolls that I
• 2:00:26
  read. And so it is enormously special
• 2:00:29
  to me as well, but, So is the first lady I ever have slept
• 2:00:35
  with and I suspect she's a wise and old grown by now.
• 2:00:38
  So you know I'm here she is so time you know you know time does
• 2:00:45
  this not necessarily to do the greatest of baby.
• 2:00:50
  Oh I'm so. Oh I'm I'm I mean I'm Natalie
• 2:00:53
  unblooded today? I'm so tall because and I
• 2:00:59
  watched I actually I made myself watch episode 2 to because also
• 2:01:03
  I cannot believe that since then we, you know that was I remember
• 2:01:07
  that was hilariously build on the Missing Years documentaries
• 2:01:10
  and now we have the earliest surviving Patrick troughton
• 2:01:13
  episode and it was underwater Menace 3.
• 2:01:15
  Well now we've got an earlier one underwater million two and I
• 2:01:17
  remember when that came back and that was really exciting and
• 2:01:20
  that, you know, so I'm watching something that has hit the two
• 2:01:23
  bin missing and that's really, really exciting.
• 2:01:25
  And it does give a slightly different flavor to the story.
• 2:01:29
  I think it makes the story seem a little bit more.
• 2:01:33
  Crochet actually because robbed because episode three for me is
• 2:01:36
  is all about Zaroff. It's got the beautiful ending,
• 2:01:40
  you know, nothing in the world can stop me now.
• 2:01:43
  And and and and the fish people dance and it and it has all this
• 2:01:46
  sort of extremes of the story, maybe not the flooding which I
• 2:01:50
  think is is probably very exciting in episode 4.
• 2:01:53
  An episode two, sort of gets down to the business of the the
• 2:01:56
  story itself which which isn't up to much, let's be honest.
• 2:02:01
  And you say, I mean Sean and jacket look PG Stevens.
• 2:02:05
  I was delighted to then see him not long.
• 2:02:07
  After I watched the episode in the, he's in the Only Fools and
• 2:02:10
  Horses episode where the tear falls down, the statue of
• 2:02:13
  Samaria, and he's always still acting.
• 2:02:16
  He's still around and he's Sean. But I mean if ever, there was a
• 2:02:20
  we gonna add this Frazer Hines chapter to the lineup.
• 2:02:23
  Yeah. Well, why don't we write out the
• 2:02:26
  two Sailors who do, who are absolutely unnecessary to the
• 2:02:33
  plot and give some of that. So that Jamie and Ben don't have
• 2:02:37
  to sit with Lie and say the same things as each other.
• 2:02:40
  Do they say the same things? Yes they do.
• 2:02:42
  We certainly do doctor. Are we going to do that again?
• 2:02:44
  We certainly are. Are we yes I mean come on and
• 2:02:48
  and you know it's not it's no offense to Sean and Jaco but and
• 2:02:53
  and watching the scene where they where they escaped from the
• 2:02:55
  work party, there's a real sort of and you go first and then
• 2:02:59
  I'll follow you and then we'll take this and it's like you
• 2:03:01
  don't need to explain the fact that you just do a look over
• 2:03:04
  there and fuck off. You know, the Boris and and
• 2:03:10
  Joseph first is brilliant. And it was it when I was young,
• 2:03:14
  it was, you know, the the headlines for underwater Menace
• 2:03:17
  was it's bad because Joseph first to give an over the top
• 2:03:21
  before it's Joseph first, giving an over the top before months is
• 2:03:24
  in. He's nosy.
• 2:03:26
  Exactly what he's doing. It is a sort of Gene Wilder type
• 2:03:29
  of performance Joseph first was a fantastic actor, and I would
• 2:03:34
  Point anyone to Rudolph Cartier's production of Dr.
• 2:03:37
  Korsak in the children, in which you see Paddy Russell playing
• 2:03:40
  herself as the as the, as the sort of floor manager, and it's
• 2:03:44
  a very Bryant piece and it's where the actors turn up to the
• 2:03:48
  studio within within the play. That's what the play is.
• 2:03:50
  And, and Patty Russell goes. Okay, you gonna be acting over
• 2:03:53
  there and Joseph, first goes under any props or costumes and
• 2:03:56
  they go. No, you're just gonna do it.
• 2:03:58
  And it's a really. So it's a sort of breaking the
• 2:04:01
  fourth thing, and it's basically three actors.
• 2:04:04
  And a child actor so far. Really four actors playing all
• 2:04:09
  these different characters of this harrowing story of Dr.
• 2:04:12
  Korsak Who was charged with a walking, some Jewish children
• 2:04:17
  towards the gas Chambers. And it's horror and Joseph first
• 2:04:20
  produces real Tears On Cue. In in a, you know, single take
• 2:04:25
  studio. And he's phenomenal, it's
• 2:04:28
  brilliant. He knew what he was doing and
• 2:04:31
  here, he's decides to go, I think this could be a bit drab
• 2:04:35
  unless I throw everything at this and because, unfortunately,
• 2:04:39
  everything else is a bit drab. I mean, God bless Doctor Who an
• 2:04:44
  actor, like Colin jevons, who is a one of our finest character's
• 2:04:48
  in the Doctor Who University plays Damon with the eyebrows in
• 2:04:52
  the underwater tomatoes and Tracy in canine and Company what
• 2:05:00
  you do. Damon and nobody has a sort of
• 2:05:04
  consistent characterization. So Ramo is a human sacrificing,
• 2:05:08
  you know, religious relative episode 1 but then they over
• 2:05:12
  here of having a chat today Damon in the corridor of
• 2:05:15
  exposition. And so then well you can be our
• 2:05:20
  friend now then. So you're suddenly fine because
• 2:05:22
  you don't like The cut of Xerox jib.
• 2:05:24
  And by the way, Sam Briggs has got the best hat.
• 2:05:27
  In Doctor Who Ramo walks in and says hold my beer and Ramo is
• 2:05:33
  played by a wonderful actor. Tom Watson, I had to I met Tom
• 2:05:36
  Watson, I was in a play I was in a Scottish play and one of the
• 2:05:40
  actors in it, his friend came to see him and and the ACT said, oh
• 2:05:44
  if anybody I'm just gonna get changed.
• 2:05:46
  If if somebody could, if anyone knows an act called Tom Watson,
• 2:05:48
  he's he should be hanging out there.
• 2:05:50
  Don't let him go and I was I know who Tom Watson it is.
• 2:05:52
  So I raced out when you agency, right?
• 2:05:54
  And oh well you're here to remember being in the underwater
• 2:05:57
  Menace and he was, I met Tom Watson.
• 2:05:59
  I'm really pleased and and he was a brilliant actor and he was
• 2:06:04
  the series called cardiac arrest in which she was so touchy.
• 2:06:06
  You want to Scotland's leading character but Rama is Bland Ramo
• 2:06:11
  is just the Daemon is. Bland, Lola is quite fun.
• 2:06:14
  He has one of the two of the best lines in Doctor Who won of
• 2:06:17
  his Rambo has Rama not Rambo. I'm doe.
• 2:06:23
  Has eat Upper victims. I think it might be eaten of her
• 2:06:25
  victims, but it sounds like it says, eaten up perfect.
• 2:06:28
  And I love the bits where he says, may the wrath of I'm doing
• 2:06:33
  Gulf View. And Joseph goes, I'll take my
• 2:06:35
  chats, get out, he does over go just gorgeous but he's an
• 2:06:43
  interest. So Noelle Johnson is playing
• 2:06:47
  house as boringly, anybody? I mean he even does that thing
• 2:06:52
  where he doesn't look at to his talking to as if he's being sort
• 2:06:55
  of wistful and detached. And he's just and his throne is
• 2:06:58
  a fucking stool. I mean, it's taking him to the
• 2:07:02
  throne room. Well, we can't call it the
• 2:07:04
  school and It really? It has first draft written all
• 2:07:12
  over it. Especially I think when it comes
• 2:07:15
  to the characters, the dance of the fish, people is a gorgeous
• 2:07:18
  thing to have just because you look at it and go, you why have
• 2:07:21
  you spent your money on this bit?
• 2:07:23
  This is bananas. And I actually the whole story
• 2:07:27
  Toby. I actually preferred it in third
• 2:07:30
  generation or to have it in because you couldn't see the,
• 2:07:32
  you couldn't see the wires and it actually.
• 2:07:34
  And I remember thinking, oh, this is, but although some of
• 2:07:36
  the fish people, I remember in the radio times, 21st, 20th
• 2:07:40
  anniversary special, you know, it said the fish people have not
• 2:07:42
  Doctor Who's most convincing Creations.
• 2:07:44
  I, why are you being rude about Doctor Who this is?
• 2:07:46
  This is what Doctor Who fans do little.
• 2:07:48
  Did I know? And it was one of the rare
• 2:07:51
  criticisms of doctor in any official written history of that
• 2:07:55
  point, and I quite like, but they're not very good.
• 2:07:58
  But then some of the fish people are just people in leotard
• 2:08:00
  goggles on and you go. So what sort of what fish are
• 2:08:04
  you? I'm a fish from the Royal Ballet
• 2:08:06
  school, really focusing on one one lady that swim Lessons on
• 2:08:11
  the goggles. It's Like lots of.
• 2:08:15
  So I get I absolutely get that. I will have a whale of a time
• 2:08:21
  watching this sometimes an absolute guilty pleasure and we
• 2:08:24
  should stop being British and worry about guilty pleasures.
• 2:08:27
  That's so that's so snobbish, isn't it?
• 2:08:29
  Go, I like this but I shouldn't. Well then just like it.
• 2:08:32
  Get over yourself but by the same token, I like good food.
• 2:08:36
  I like making food for people. I you know I like good quality
• 2:08:40
  food. I'm interested in how food works
• 2:08:42
  but equally I like white warburtons bread with a really
• 2:08:46
  thick Flora on it and Kraft cheese slices in the middle and
• 2:08:50
  and sometimes if nobody's looking I love on it but I'm not
• 2:08:53
  gonna serve them up when people come around.
• 2:08:54
  You know what I mean? And so I can acknowledge that I
• 2:08:57
  might like something or in Joy indulging myself as something.
• 2:09:02
  Well, all so acknowledging that it's not, it's not a very good
• 2:09:06
  example of food. And so, I have the personal link
• 2:09:12
  to it. I think it's in many ways, very
• 2:09:15
  entertaining. I I think some of the reasons
• 2:09:18
  it's entertaining, it's it's it's not what it intends to be.
• 2:09:21
  It actually works, that that thousands is a bit wooden that
• 2:09:24
  that Ram is a bit sort of solid that Daemon is a bit slightly,
• 2:09:28
  you know, and they're all good actors who are not who were, who
• 2:09:32
  were not really managing to, to rise, to the occasion.
• 2:09:34
  But in a way, it kind of works in the way that Tom Adams Works
• 2:09:37
  in Warriors of the deep where you kind of need a sort of
• 2:09:41
  slightly wooden command to make the story work.
• 2:09:43
  I don't know. I don't know how that works, but
• 2:09:45
  somehow it does. But also the contrast it sort of
• 2:09:50
  pushes Joseph first from the atmosphere to distract us fear.
• 2:09:53
  What that's absolutely. And so it makes him all the more
• 2:09:56
  sort of entertaining remarkable and stick out.
• 2:09:58
  But all so, the motivation is absolutely all over the shop
• 2:10:02
  that really, really ludicrous and thus, oh, and what hang on.
• 2:10:07
  He, he is the greatest scientists in the world and he
• 2:10:10
  hasn't, he doesn't give him a fucking fridge.
• 2:10:12
  To put their fish in and they haven't even thought of that.
• 2:10:17
  They live with fish. They are half fish, people and
• 2:10:20
  fish. What Elon Musk.
• 2:10:24
  The 1960. That's who's our office.
• 2:10:30
  He's a guy. He's the most intelligent man in
• 2:10:33
  the world, but he's a fuking idiot. oh, if only its
• 2:10:38
  production code was X, So look, I I would I will really enjoy
• 2:10:47
  watch and as I said, and and actually, you know, the
• 2:10:50
  animation, I think did open it up to show that the surrounding
• 2:10:53
  story is actually it is a bit nuts and it's a bit slight.
• 2:10:57
  I do love a bee movie and I, and I like the fact that doctor, who
• 2:11:01
  can sometimes do Bee Movie. But if I'm to set myself, this
• 2:11:05
  task of, of making sure that this is an all, just all lovey,
• 2:11:08
  dovey we put everything through. If I was to put this through and
• 2:11:12
  then and then not put evil of the darling through.
• 2:11:15
  I think I think I should be I should be shot so I'm going to
• 2:11:22
  Yeah. Go against my my my heart and
• 2:11:25
  vote with my head because I don't think because it's not
• 2:11:27
  very good, it doesn't matter that.
• 2:11:29
  I mean, it's not very good. So for that, I might.
• 2:11:33
  Yes, and we can enjoy not very good Doctor Who and there's
• 2:11:36
  something to be said for that, but I'm worried that sometimes
• 2:11:38
  that's a bit patronizing, it doesn't matter why my word I'm
• 2:11:41
  not putting through because not very good.
• 2:11:42
  So, so there you are full. I know, I know, because it's a
• 2:11:50
  place, it does. Have I love about.
• 2:11:53
  Well, that's it. I'm so bloody cloyingly more
• 2:11:55
  Kish everywhere else. I've got to unleash my inner
• 2:11:59
  busted on this. Now, God, we've got a look
• 2:12:03
  pleadingly at Mark. Now we do with one of become on
• 2:12:06
  Maurice. Um, you've got the Candy Man on
• 2:12:09
  your T-shirt, for Christ. What's got personal story told
• 2:12:13
  me. Scott personal story.
• 2:12:15
  Underwater management by Jeffy or is I've always known him.
• 2:12:18
  My great uncle Jeff know, that's not, I have a picture of Jeffrey
• 2:12:25
  Ormond in my bathroom. By the way, you both for better
• 2:12:28
  doing what? Well, just just look in.
• 2:12:33
  Sorry I need to clarify here. Do you have a picture of Jeffrey
• 2:12:38
  or Like being in your bathroom or do you have a picture of
• 2:12:41
  Jennifer in your specific? Yes, no.
• 2:12:45
  Yes, it's not. I didn't, I didn't walk in on
• 2:12:47
  him with my camera. Go, who's an underwater Menace?
• 2:12:53
  Now there's octopus has become as crazy as the underwater
• 2:12:58
  Menace itself. Anyway.
• 2:13:03
  Um, Christopher and Allen's open, right, Christopher's
• 2:13:09
  office. Is a film about a man, Reckoning
• 2:13:15
  with the destruction that he's rocked with the atomic bomb and
• 2:13:21
  the underwater Menace. I think you could enjoy the
• 2:13:26
  underwater Menace, a lot more. If you see it as an insane,
• 2:13:30
  Satire on the nuclear arms race. because, Zaroff wants to blow up
• 2:13:37
  the world. What, what can you give a bombs
• 2:13:41
  if not devices with which to blow up the world?
• 2:13:45
  there was an, you know, he's a cold war scientist who's kind of
• 2:13:51
  He's a bit kind of hazy as to what exactly happened, but he's
• 2:13:55
  got himself out of that situation.
• 2:13:56
  He's probably much like Doctor Strange.
• 2:13:59
  Love former Nazi rocket scientist whoever there and
• 2:14:03
  again, the hand shoots up and he's got to force it back down
• 2:14:07
  that that's who this character is.
• 2:14:09
  There's like the and that's why this is a Bond film.
• 2:14:12
  This is, this is Doctor Who doing the Bond film long before
• 2:14:16
  John perks. We like this is where it starts.
• 2:14:18
  It's an underwater base. It's a, it's a handful villain
• 2:14:22
  with a chords Eastern. Well, it's his own accent.
• 2:14:25
  Just amped up to 11, but, you know, a European accent.
• 2:14:28
  He's got a pet first, you know, he's gonna feed.
• 2:14:33
  The doctor's companions to sharks, he's a bond villain and
• 2:14:37
  he wants to blow up the world. Just because he can, and that's
• 2:14:42
  really fun and really silly. And At the time, if we're
• 2:14:46
  looking at kind of what else is going on.
• 2:14:50
  You can see it is this kind of insane sort of absurdist satire.
• 2:14:55
  I don't think I'm necessarily isn't ending it is that but I
• 2:15:00
  think the I think the reading things there I think the reading
• 2:15:03
  is there one. It's fun to see it is that it's
• 2:15:08
  like the robot double in the chase, you know oppen however
• 2:15:11
  and the underwater Menace. Barely perceptible from the real
• 2:15:14
  thing at the same thing, the result of the same.
• 2:15:17
  I've got one or four people here.
• 2:15:19
  I've got the other one blurry with an animated reconstruction.
• 2:15:22
  So I do I do think that element of it is is really fun.
• 2:15:29
  Just this kind of you know we're in the we're in the year of the
• 2:15:32
  Cold War. So worried about certain nuclear
• 2:15:36
  arms and you've got a story about a guy who was to raise a
• 2:15:39
  mountainous, but by Lantus, he'll cause an explosion that
• 2:15:43
  will blow up the world, but at least he can see.
• 2:15:46
  He did it in the last two seconds before he's obliterated
• 2:15:49
  in the last. Yeah, it's so stupid.
• 2:15:52
  It's so stupid, but Aren't you killer weapons?
• 2:15:58
  Really fucking stupid as well. I don't know.
• 2:16:01
  I quite like I was really drawn to that watching it this time
• 2:16:04
  around and the other thing I like at all, but I love this
• 2:16:07
  reading. I'll wash it again now with this
• 2:16:10
  reading, I'm basically just trying to find things that
• 2:16:13
  people haven't already said. I also quite like the clash of
• 2:16:21
  the sort of a science versus religion.
• 2:16:24
  Again it's completely insane and you've got these, this sort of
• 2:16:28
  cult of the fish people but some of them are kind of sort of
• 2:16:32
  Shifting towards zaroff's kind of cult of personality and he's
• 2:16:35
  kind of he's their new Gods but he's also he's utterly insane
• 2:16:40
  and he's ultimately going to ruin them.
• 2:16:42
  And He's Trump, he's mask, he's anybody, that that cultivates,
• 2:16:48
  that, that sort of color personality and gets people to
• 2:16:51
  just completely shut off their critical faculties and go.
• 2:16:55
  Yes, no, I that does sound insane, but no, I will I will do
• 2:17:01
  that thing. I will absolutely.
• 2:17:03
  And I will defend your rights to blow up the world.
• 2:17:08
  And so that, that's quite fun. And And the final thing.
• 2:17:13
  Now, I don't know this for certain Toby's, got a picture of
• 2:17:16
  his bathroom. Maybe he knows the truth of
• 2:17:18
  this. I don't know if anybody's ever
• 2:17:20
  heard of, um, I think he's, I can't remember exactly his role
• 2:17:24
  but Basically, an American not job of the 1930s called Edgar
• 2:17:28
  Cayce. an Edgar Cayce predicted that Atlantis would be found and
• 2:17:35
  I think somewhere around 1967, 1968, Some point after 1968, you
• 2:17:46
  don't know when probably certain 1970.
• 2:17:50
  So arms kind of clothing on this very niche.
• 2:17:55
  Sort of. Bigger and to kind of spin a
• 2:17:59
  doctor, whose story of that. Well, what if Atlantis was found
• 2:18:04
  In a couple of years time. What would that look like?
• 2:18:06
  And what I would like, is an insane, James Bond film.
• 2:18:10
  And I love the ambition of that. I love somebody finding a kind
• 2:18:15
  of niche. Um, sort of Prophecy from a from
• 2:18:19
  a madman and good. That'll make a good doctor
• 2:18:22
  story. I'm going to do that and so it's
• 2:18:25
  going through because it's just a who it's such a, it's such a
• 2:18:28
  hoot, I love, there's lots of little, lovely trout and it as
• 2:18:32
  well. The better the start was women
• 2:18:34
  and children for last and it's probably in the doctor.
• 2:18:37
  Hang back. That's really fun.
• 2:18:40
  I've got the doctor righting. I've got a secret Dr. W and
• 2:18:45
  handing that and to entice him. It's so great.
• 2:18:50
  And it's so Doctor Who um, yeah it's going in.
• 2:18:54
  I I love it. I love it all but the bill that
• 2:18:59
  made me laugh the most watching episode free today.
• 2:19:01
  Wasn't it wasn't Joseph. First it wasn't even that
• 2:19:03
  ridiculous bit where the man gets stabbed by a javelin.
• 2:19:06
  And the javelin is just at the front of the screens or wobbly
• 2:19:09
  precarious. It was the doctor.
• 2:19:12
  And what's the priest named Grandma?
• 2:19:14
  Yeah, go home. Mask and satire might be too
• 2:19:18
  strong of a word, but and he goes, well, I never knew.
• 2:19:21
  That was the secret of ham, though.
• 2:19:23
  You just talk through the nose. Oh, But also with episode 2
• 2:19:29
  coming out because one of the great because again, we talked
• 2:19:31
  about the archeology of this. One of the things that what a
• 2:19:34
  shame in in the existing episode, we don't have xeroderma
• 2:19:36
  reconstruction apart for which has that bit of Zaroff, kind of,
• 2:20:23
  you know, falling into the water.
• 2:20:24
  Am I right think? Because I'm In a sense, it came
• 2:20:27
  out blurry to the animated version.
• 2:20:29
  Have the octopus. Oh, the animated version.
• 2:20:31
  That's a sub. Block its glorious.
• 2:20:33
  So seriously, it's like going to just go to the Lavar.
• 2:20:38
  Save me. And you know, that's one of his
• 2:20:43
  suckers on it and things. No.
• 2:20:45
  Fuck. You go to our second loss of
• 2:20:52
  listeners. Oh, I have a blast tonight, you
• 2:20:56
  know? And so Daniel Ron's Lee says,
• 2:21:02
  Today we're all well acquainted with trouton's daughter and her
• 2:21:05
  brilliantly successful. He was but what a shock it must
• 2:21:08
  have been but then just I'm glad you gave me this comment to see
• 2:21:11
  this absolute clone Boulders and tooling on a recorder.
• 2:21:16
  I was just I could hear your voice giving Rock I was a great
• 2:21:22
  Scottish and so, Luke Sims Jenkins, says season 4 is Doctor
• 2:21:28
  Who finding its feet again with a new lead and a Vibe of
• 2:21:31
  throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, sadly.
• 2:21:35
  What sticks is the template for the moon base?
• 2:21:38
  What has never sounded so clear cut in his life.
• 2:21:43
  Yeah. And phrase Gregory champion of
• 2:21:47
  the Damned. And all that says, well the
• 2:21:50
  Lloyd and David's vision of the show is less clear than it might
• 2:21:53
  be the changes. They make phasing at the
• 2:21:56
  historicals bringing in contemporary stories, new
• 2:21:58
  Companions and above all a new doctor, do more to facilitate
• 2:22:02
  the shows longevity than anything else without season 4.
• 2:22:05
  It's hard to see the series. Lasting much longer.
• 2:22:08
  It's annoying when you can't disagree with him.
• 2:22:10
  Aslay David. Gillespie Pratt says, life
• 2:22:16
  depends on change and renewal the doctor sums up this era.
• 2:22:19
  Perfectly new doctor new companions.
• 2:22:21
  A new stories from the little. We can see.
• 2:22:24
  It's a bit rough around the edges but it's absolutely
• 2:22:27
  magnificent. Keep all of them.
• 2:22:30
  Already down. So sorry.
• 2:22:32
  Darling says one of my favorite Seasons as it really feels like
• 2:22:38
  a Saturday Adventure cereal but should not be more than the
• 2:22:41
  Saturday Adventure cereal with Vari we've already covered that.
• 2:22:44
  Not always They're trying to show so it's not stuck in
• 2:22:49
  repetition like, one that follows, I like the embryonic
• 2:22:52
  second doctor, rather than the all giddy I'll start again
• 2:22:55
  rather than the all my giddy. Aunt, one, A big orange.
• 2:23:00
  Michael says, Trouton's first season is trying to find the new
• 2:23:04
  normal building on the established foundations and
• 2:23:07
  adding new support, beams behind the scenes was probably as
• 2:23:11
  chaotic as what we got on screen.
• 2:23:13
  A great experiment, that succeeds and fails, but mostly
• 2:23:17
  succeeds. Daniel Knight says, from what we
• 2:23:22
  can hear. And see it's very experimental.
• 2:23:24
  They're trying to see what works based on the seeds and
• 2:23:27
  Whitaker's version of the Daleks and what doesn't underwater
• 2:23:30
  Menace before it settles into an entertaining repetitive formula.
• 2:23:36
  Mark Dadi says an era that I badly.
• 2:23:39
  Want to love the imagery and ideas are all their bags of
• 2:23:43
  inventiveness at the heart of it but many of the stories Meander
• 2:23:47
  and don't have much debts a period where it feels much more
• 2:23:50
  aimed at the kiddies. Can I think that's such a
• 2:23:54
  problem? A George has lost.
• 2:23:58
  I hope you find your way home soon.
• 2:24:01
  George says, genuinely every story bar one is a banger.
• 2:24:05
  I may be my favorite classic, whose story macros as atmosphere
• 2:24:09
  and Menace so much better than you think.
• 2:24:11
  Moonbase is a classic. Faceless is an intriguing
• 2:24:14
  mystery, even even evil as an interesting narrative even evil
• 2:24:20
  even. Yeah, he is interesting.
• 2:24:22
  Choice words only done for me, is the underwater Menace.
• 2:24:26
  That is exactly the sort of sentence that Rod gives me on a
• 2:24:29
  regular basis or you only have one Paul Crescent says, I do
• 2:24:35
  like this period, some imaginative stories and one of
• 2:24:38
  the most fun Tardis teams even if Jamie commits, the other
• 2:24:42
  forgivable crime of sidelining, the lovely been, it's a crime so
• 2:24:46
  much of it is missing. And finally, mad Paddington says
• 2:24:51
  the series, I'm most wished, we had more of we missed out and so
• 2:24:55
  much by not having this crew feeling it, the new doctor not
• 2:24:59
  like that too. I'm outside of work, right?
• 2:25:03
  I am going to pick my story and I am going to pick I'm going to
• 2:25:09
  pick what I think, is the worst. Script of this series, or this
• 2:25:16
  run of this chunk of Frasier. Told me I had to Refer to it as.
• 2:25:21
  So, I I'm gonna pick this one because I think it's the weakest
• 2:25:25
  on lamest script of the seven, and, of course, it is.
• 2:25:29
  Evil of the Daleks Oh no, that was coming up in within too
• 2:25:35
  long. I was the whole time he was
• 2:25:37
  talking and if I just got bunch of Honor, did I just get Toby?
• 2:25:41
  Hey, doctor told me to fuck off. That's right.
• 2:25:43
  This bad about kicking up the underwater Menace and this is
• 2:25:50
  just a reminder of the nonsense that you have to deal with.
• 2:25:53
  On this podcast. He's in contact.
• 2:25:55
  He might keep it in yet, even while watching the screen.
• 2:25:58
  Oh no. No, no, no, no, no, no please.
• 2:26:01
  Yeah. What was wrong with you, what?
• 2:26:03
  Let's hear it. What Madness know you think I
• 2:26:07
  would put this through cause house just before you get into
• 2:26:10
  this? Yes, you may sway me here.
• 2:26:13
  Oh, just a bit of drama. Just a bit of drama, goodbye.
• 2:26:18
  We've always been brought I'm gonna go right on britbox.
• 2:26:23
  Up. Now, you think I would put this
• 2:26:25
  through because this has got the campus Cliffhanger in the whole
• 2:26:29
  of Doctor. Who at the end of episode 3,
• 2:26:31
  where Jamie meets up with a muscle-bound camel in a
• 2:26:34
  darkened. Corridor and says, oh well,
• 2:26:37
  hello, how are you? But I'm still not putting it
• 2:26:41
  through. Let me tell you why I am not
• 2:26:43
  putting this through. I think this is the most
• 2:26:45
  egregious example of blatant padding and total nonsense for
• 2:26:50
  most of this story. So let me tell you why we start
• 2:26:54
  with one and a half episodes of skills degree in 1966.
• 2:26:59
  But it's all padding. So Waterfield has the Tardis
• 2:27:01
  take into the shop so we could just see the doctor and Jamie
• 2:27:05
  follow it and get captured, but oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 2:27:08
  that's all good enough. We need to have this out for an
• 2:27:11
  episode and off. So we throw away in Perry and
• 2:27:13
  Kennedy and Bob Paul, we've got all the business with the time.
• 2:27:16
  Traveling, antiques seller. What's the big mystery?
• 2:27:19
  There isn't a mystery because it comes to nothing, the tri-color
• 2:27:22
  Cafe. All of this is just adding
• 2:27:25
  because it goes nowhere, they get captured and all that gets
• 2:27:29
  totally forgotten. So then we go to Victorian
• 2:27:33
  England in, you know, stack and a half of episode 2 Whitaker at
• 2:27:37
  this point has forgotten. This is Max Devil's house
• 2:27:39
  because he's got a picture of water, feels wife hanging up on
• 2:27:42
  his wall. Not quite sure how that works
• 2:27:44
  unless they've had some sort of dirty, but that's what Holly
• 2:27:47
  animus relationship. It's a little bit odd.
• 2:27:50
  So what was grass outside? I thought?
• 2:27:53
  So even in the Victorian era, But then we get more pointless
• 2:27:57
  characters, Toby Toby not Auto, be obviously wins the Davis
• 2:28:02
  Tobey, Toby kidnaps Jamie for no discernible reason and then gets
• 2:28:06
  killed what is the point of that character and actually comes
• 2:28:10
  that what is the point of our Fitzgerald or even or even Ruth
• 2:28:14
  Maxwell comes to that? They don't add anything to the
• 2:28:16
  story. All Arthur does is wander around
• 2:28:18
  for three episodes. Holding his head going.
• 2:28:20
  Oh, and then they run away in episode 5, the completely
• 2:28:24
  pointless the story, they had nothing.
• 2:28:27
  And there is extra padding on this maximum tells us that he
• 2:28:30
  knows camel there, you know, he knows him from working with them
• 2:28:33
  but yeah he invited him into the park and he spends a good five
• 2:28:37
  minutes, demonstrating the strength in front of him,
• 2:28:40
  bending iron bars and breaking blocks of wood with his hand
• 2:28:44
  maximum knows him. He knows he's strong.
• 2:28:46
  Why is he asking him to demonstrate his muscles?
• 2:28:48
  Is this just for his personality?
• 2:28:56
  It's nonsense. And if Daleks want the human
• 2:28:59
  factor, why are they experimenting in the Victorian
• 2:29:02
  era? It's not particularly an error
• 2:29:04
  known for its scientific advances or scientific
• 2:29:07
  equipment. Why do we need to test the
• 2:29:10
  doctors companion? They make up some crappy line
• 2:29:12
  about because he's traveling with the doctor, which is a very
• 2:29:15
  lame line covering over the fact that we've not really thought
• 2:29:18
  this through, because the dialects don't know, Jamie and
• 2:29:20
  Jamie doesn't know the Daleks but we need to test them, okay.
• 2:29:24
  He's more than human robbed know.
• 2:29:27
  That's the doctor is more than human but Jamie why are we
• 2:29:30
  testing? Jamie it doesn't make any sense.
• 2:29:32
  And the tests themselves they say they wanted to do it because
• 2:29:35
  they want to understand how they've been defeated but the
• 2:29:37
  tests don't do anything to demonstrate how the dialects
• 2:29:41
  have been defeated. How does Jamie have him kiss
• 2:29:43
  fisticuffs with camel Crews, anything about the defeats of
• 2:29:46
  dialects? It does nothing.
• 2:29:47
  Why does Jamie save Tamil? He's never saved someone before
• 2:29:50
  in a fight and never will do so again, but on this occasion
• 2:29:53
  because this serves the plot he saves Camel and those tests,
• 2:29:57
  they don't feel very dark like you got swinging, pendulums and
• 2:30:00
  all that crap. It doesn't make sense.
• 2:30:02
  Not very delicate and it's actually up to the doctor to
• 2:30:05
  tell the Daleks that they show elements of mercy and Instinct,
• 2:30:08
  the Daleks aren't testing for that.
• 2:30:10
  So why are they testing? Why are they setting these
• 2:30:12
  things up? The doctors got to tell them
• 2:30:14
  what they are. Doesn't any sense?
• 2:30:16
  Why a Ruth and Molly looking for Victorian the house when the
• 2:30:19
  Daleks are making Victorious, shout out her name of the top of
• 2:30:23
  the voice. So everyone in the house can
• 2:30:24
  hear and then Molly and Ruth come in say, well where's
• 2:30:27
  Victorious? Just been fucking screaming her
• 2:30:30
  name at the top of the stairs. It makes no sense How the Camel
• 2:30:33
  and Jamie destroy a doctor, a garlic by, wrapping a rope
• 2:30:36
  around it, and throwing it into a fire would not just move away
• 2:30:39
  from the fire. How does maximum suddenly have?
• 2:30:42
  How is he suddenly able to hypnotize people?
• 2:30:45
  And if you can't hypnotize people, why is Tyrrell under
• 2:30:48
  darling? Mind control again, it makes no
• 2:30:50
  fucking sense. Why do the garlic try to give us
• 2:30:53
  all reasons, why not to like this?
• 2:30:55
  This is these are great stuff about evil of the dog.
• 2:30:58
  That's not gonna get to the bad stuff, it's nonsense.
• 2:31:01
  Why did the dialects take Victoria camel a maximal
• 2:31:04
  Scarrow? They destroy the house.
• 2:31:06
  They've got no further need for these people.
• 2:31:08
  Why do they take them to Scarlet?
• 2:31:10
  They just sit in a Cell because it's convenient for the plot did
• 2:31:13
  genetic. Engineering becomes so easy.
• 2:31:15
  You can just walk through it all.
• 2:31:17
  And some Magic Buttons, fly over you.
• 2:31:19
  Oh, and suddenly you've changed personality, and why does Marius
• 2:31:22
  Goring make Richard? Briar's possession look like
• 2:31:25
  Rick. Olivia, he is terrible.
• 2:31:28
  Absolutely terrible. So, those are just some of the
• 2:31:32
  plot reasons why I think the plot in this story is lame as
• 2:31:35
  fuk and the worst of the Seas. That's just the plot reasons.
• 2:31:41
  For my secondary. Oh, okay.
• 2:31:43
  He's not. It's my second reason.
• 2:31:46
  I don't even know what to call it, but that Bloody Hall of
• 2:31:49
  Mirrors box. Now, I know it seems very unfair
• 2:31:52
  to pick on a prop but it's Central to five episodes and the
• 2:31:56
  Daleks go in and out in and out, these bloody saloon doors every
• 2:32:00
  five minutes. And every time I can hear those
• 2:32:02
  wooden saloon doors, String onto the back of the garlic gazing
• 2:32:06
  and they do it Time After Time. After Time After Time if it was
• 2:32:09
  once you'd forgiving. So it's a production mistake it
• 2:32:13
  does it multiple times over five episodes and you just think this
• 2:32:16
  just looks poor. And then my last reason, this is
• 2:32:20
  the last couple, this is the wrong companion to pay I don't
• 2:32:24
  think Victoria is a perfect companion as we move forward.
• 2:32:27
  But here, she's not interesting. She's not engaging, she's too,
• 2:32:30
  prim and proper. She's definitely more than a
• 2:32:33
  little bit. Whiny, we've just had some
• 2:32:35
  breaks. Who was magnificent?
• 2:32:36
  We didn't say care here. We've got molly, Joe Robson,
• 2:32:40
  she's brilliant, she's bright. She's Karen's Matic, she's fun,
• 2:32:43
  she's got great rapport with Jayme and we ditch her.
• 2:32:45
  And we take fucking Victory, which is just the wrong choice
• 2:32:49
  and just Sam from me. The evil of the Daleks needs to
• 2:32:52
  go in the bin. What Madness is this?
• 2:32:57
  I mean, official missing the point a few times on this
• 2:32:59
  podcast but many times so let's go to the comments.
• 2:33:04
  Show away. Show away James hadwin Bennett
• 2:33:07
  agrees with me. Says, one of the big lies of
• 2:33:09
  theaters was when those reference books told us.
• 2:33:11
  This was a classic. I suspect people remembered the
• 2:33:14
  final scenes unlikely, forgot the six and a half episodes in
• 2:33:17
  coherence before. It camel isn't enough for me to
• 2:33:20
  keep it so Bennett. Dan Hollingsworth thinks you're
• 2:33:24
  a pair of accounts. Excellent.
• 2:33:29
  Our secretly run by Time Travelers.
• 2:33:31
  Raise the Gregory Champion, the dancers, a proper way to end the
• 2:33:35
  season what with incoherent shit, as the dialects go out
• 2:33:38
  with a bang, a tour of the past present and future crammed, with
• 2:33:42
  interesting characters and even more interesting.
• 2:33:44
  Dr. Jaime Dynamics, shades of Ace here, plus the introduction
• 2:33:48
  of the wonderful Victoria. Never made a link to its
• 2:33:52
  definitely there. Isn't it?
• 2:33:53
  Paul Chrysler, never got the love for this, just seemed like
• 2:33:56
  a Runabout with hokey science and random characters.
• 2:33:58
  However, when I saw the animation at the bfla, I got a
• 2:34:02
  feeling for how exciting it would have been at the time.
• 2:34:04
  Sims Jenkins, says Whittaker does too dark stories and
• 2:34:08
  doesn't repeat himself the last great story to last great.
• 2:34:12
  Dalek story till Genesis, I can't hardly bear myself to
• 2:34:16
  bring himself to the end of the sentence though.
• 2:34:18
  The dialects won't be this interesting and fun again until
• 2:34:21
  Tribunal Off the fun during the mafia there are lit.
• 2:34:31
  Roundels says, the plot is rather silly but I love the
• 2:34:34
  three different locations. I think it needs its visuals,
• 2:34:36
  you can't fail to enjoy the surviving part 2.
• 2:34:39
  Some great design work, has his moments and it's a great Epic
• 2:34:43
  season finale. Michael storms is a strong
• 2:34:46
  season closer but it does struggle to fill it.
• 2:34:48
  Seven episodes. However, the finale on
• 2:34:50
  Scarborough is a great spectacle, very good but not the
• 2:34:53
  all-conquering Masterpiece. Oh, grandson lovely set pieces
• 2:34:56
  Trout's Mountain Panic during his conversation with Max.
• 2:34:59
  Paul Waterfield is brilliant and the emperor is a marvelously
• 2:35:03
  realized idea but it's a four or five parts story.
• 2:35:06
  That's become overstretched, Shaggy Dog story.
• 2:35:08
  Of course this exciting surprisingly moving and also
• 2:35:12
  just playing weird A dala County shop.
• 2:35:14
  The cars, give it their all and getting married scoring was a
• 2:35:17
  massive Coupe. All smiled to see men's on a
• 2:35:20
  high with my favorite doll story of the 60s.
• 2:35:22
  So many memorable moments, Jamie's reaction to the doctor's
• 2:35:26
  betrayal Daleks playing trains and of course, Course, the
• 2:35:29
  climax of the emperor trout and once again is amazing trade
• 2:35:33
  Doctor Who Says probably my favorite dialect plan, the
• 2:35:36
  doctor testing Jamie and then him being uncertain was great.
• 2:35:39
  Since you knew he had complete faith in him.
• 2:35:41
  David Gillespie Pratt 1955. Excellent 5%, toy, Dalek Army,
• 2:35:46
  another one. I'd love to see returned even
• 2:35:48
  just a clip. Would do we get to see how
• 2:35:51
  manipulative the second doctor can be and all that?
• 2:35:53
  Clownery is a calculating dangerous man.
• 2:35:56
  Mad Paddington says, another one that we really miss out on what
• 2:36:00
  I wouldn't give to see Pat's riding a dialect.
• 2:36:02
  No, not like that proper serious finale.
• 2:36:05
  Big Orange. Michael says, the best of the
• 2:36:08
  dark side of the second doctor is he goes up against his old
• 2:36:11
  foes, which could shows how to write for the Daleks and crafts.
• 2:36:14
  A superb story, extra points for giving us Victoria, okay?
• 2:36:19
  Probably my favorite of this season, Steve mallesons epic,
• 2:36:23
  Dalek Civil War of the Victorian setting.
• 2:36:25
  Mardon only by a flabby Middle where we all have that.
• 2:36:28
  Alex and I'm manipulative. Best some dodgy and cracking
• 2:36:32
  trouts and performance some must-watch nearly there.
• 2:36:35
  Thanks, Jason Thompson. So well performed, it takes a
• 2:36:38
  few watches to realize, it doesn't make a lick of sense, a
• 2:36:41
  cabinet of mirrors leads, the Daleks to 1866, then they use
• 2:36:44
  their own Tech to go to 1966 which is forgotten about for a
• 2:36:48
  month. Before handling taken our heroes
• 2:36:50
  to skaro, the Dalek Civil War sounds wonderful but I have a
• 2:36:54
  feeling it would look awful. And finally complex located
• 2:36:57
  Cookie's, a big fan love the instruction of Victoria and the
• 2:37:00
  Victorian Fields the story. A perfect way to switch between
• 2:37:03
  eras slowly changing the face of the TARDIS team and the show and
• 2:37:07
  setting us on to new strengths. I think we ought to go to the
• 2:37:10
  potty mouth, Toby Haider, actually, because he's, he's
• 2:37:13
  either lost the will to live, or he's incandescent with range.
• 2:37:16
  He's kind of between the two, is there a space in Tomorrow?
• 2:37:21
  People fandom bed up so you agreeing that we've been event.
• 2:37:26
  So you know, I like I love sort of diving into Doctor Who having
• 2:37:33
  spent a day on Twitter looking at people from my side of
• 2:37:36
  politics being assholes and then looking at people from not my
• 2:37:39
  side of politics being ourselves and go oh no, everyone's just an
• 2:37:42
  asshole. Oh, at least Doctor Who's
• 2:37:44
  alright, then I come and have to listen some asshole being rude
• 2:37:47
  about the topics. I mean, it's interesting book
• 2:37:52
  because you're not in many ways, you're not wrong.
• 2:37:57
  And I'm always put in mind of the discontinuity guide which as
• 2:38:02
  I recall described evil of the Daleks as papering over its
• 2:38:07
  scientific implausibility with a confident Swagger which I think
• 2:38:11
  is a really good description of what the story does because when
• 2:38:16
  you break it down, things like human factor, Dalek Factor, you
• 2:38:19
  go. What?
• 2:38:20
  What what what is the are you going into any further?
• 2:38:23
  Detail not. Not really.
• 2:38:24
  It's just so it's almost like the bricks that this is built
• 2:38:29
  on. Are I don't know enough about
• 2:38:31
  building but they're they're they're they're they're they're
• 2:38:34
  bricks you'd probably get from knockoff brick shop, but the
• 2:38:38
  mortar with which they are least together.
• 2:38:41
  I know you don't lace with more to you splat.
• 2:38:43
  Probably, I don't know. I'm not a builder.
• 2:38:45
  I've started building a metaphor and I don't have the tools to do
• 2:38:50
  it, so even describe what the tools are.
• 2:38:52
  I'm sorry. I've broken so behind now.
• 2:38:57
  Also reaching the right place. But and and there are and I,
• 2:39:02
  when I think about evil of the dice because I'm, as I say, when
• 2:39:05
  I came into this, I was, I was still unconvinced about what was
• 2:39:10
  my favorite story of the Season? It really is a tug of war.
• 2:39:13
  So I I try and think of what the weak points are of a story.
• 2:39:17
  And I certainly think that the I always think of what casts a
• 2:39:21
  shadow over evil is is the sort of repetitive nature of the
• 2:39:24
  middle section. The fights between Jamie and
• 2:39:27
  camel, but I remember talking to Simon Gary about this and he
• 2:39:30
  remember him, Making me quite intrigued by the Jamaican fight
• 2:39:34
  because there's a whole bitch in episode 4.
• 2:39:36
  I think. Where in the soundtrack, we've
• 2:39:38
  just got noise and the script as it does with a lot of film
• 2:39:41
  doesn't go into much details. So for example, the Covenant
• 2:39:45
  Garden fight in in the web of fear, it basically says they
• 2:39:48
  fight Blake is killed and then Douglas Campfield it does that.
• 2:39:51
  And you go, oh my God, and Derek Martinez is an excellent
• 2:39:55
  director. We know that, you know, he's all
• 2:39:58
  of his Productions are, are Rock Solid where they need to be an
• 2:40:02
  inspired in surprising places. It's not that far away.
• 2:40:07
  And yeah, there's loads of that so we don't really know.
• 2:40:12
  What it looks like. Do you know what I mean?
• 2:40:14
  But the Snaps are the lighting is gorgeous day and there's yeah
• 2:40:19
  there's a there's a rooftop at night, isn't there?
• 2:40:22
  So the chances are the bits that sound a bit tedious to us or
• 2:40:27
  uncertain to us. As as listeners might actually
• 2:40:32
  be like some of those sequences that when, you know, make an
• 2:40:36
  episode really, really work only when you can see them.
• 2:40:40
  So, that's, that's what gives the middle sections for me up.
• 2:40:42
  As I, I love because it's a story that goes, it's Doctor Who
• 2:40:48
  feeling like it's an epic and you know, you guys were right.
• 2:40:52
  I know you were very, you know, forgiving of Daleks master plan
• 2:40:55
  and Daleks master plan. I think has much more egregious
• 2:40:58
  longers in the middle. And in fact, completely wrecks,
• 2:41:02
  what it sets out to be, when Dennis Spooner gets his hands on
• 2:41:04
  it. It's starts as a really exciting
• 2:41:06
  poppy space adventure and then he goes, let's do a worse.
• 2:41:08
  First of the chase for a bit and considering what's gone before?
• 2:41:13
  That's even more disappointing. I would say that that evil is
• 2:41:17
  almost more than a sum of its parts because you get hold of
• 2:41:20
  this seven part. It's, it feels like it's on the
• 2:41:22
  way. To an epic.
• 2:41:24
  You have the doctrine Jamie in 60 is London.
• 2:41:26
  I know the faceless ones is in the modern day, but it's in an
• 2:41:31
  airport, you know what I mean? The setting is the airport, the
• 2:41:33
  fact, it's the modern day is really important, but then
• 2:41:37
  suddenly you've got, you've got Jamie and the doctor for one
• 2:41:41
  episode in, you know, in a 60s London in a cafe in the trickle
• 2:41:44
  or and that's all that feels sort of funky and different.
• 2:41:46
  And you and then you've got lovely little bit of sort of
• 2:41:49
  Grace notes that David Whittaker peppers in his scripts.
• 2:41:51
  Like for example, Perry seems like he's not very important but
• 2:41:55
  the doctors heard the clue about it being Ken and then he sees
• 2:41:59
  Mr. Arts Mr. K Perry goes ah, well, that will be Kenneth
• 2:42:02
  Perry. Ha ha.
• 2:42:03
  No, very cool. Keith one of the few keys in Dr.
• 2:42:08
  Michael classic doctor. So Keith gold in Inferno, but,
• 2:42:12
  you know, yes, one of the few few keys in Doctor Who and it's
• 2:42:17
  just nice little bits like that and went and then when episode 2
• 2:42:19
  came back because I'm from a time when all of this was
• 2:42:22
  missing, you know, oh episode 2. That's Pro but that's that's one
• 2:42:25
  of the earlier episodes where nothing really exciting happens.
• 2:42:27
  So well and then you watch episode 2 and it's absolutely
• 2:42:31
  perfect. It's a brilliant production.
• 2:42:33
  All of the Intrigue that builds us up to the main story is high
• 2:42:38
  quality stuff. You know, I think Kennedy's
• 2:42:40
  quite a fun character even though he's only there to get
• 2:42:42
  exterminated, but doctor history is lit with characters like
• 2:42:45
  that. If Bob Hall hadn't been in it,
• 2:42:47
  he wouldn't have gone home to his wife and said, I'm just done
• 2:42:49
  an episode of Doctor Who after I'm dead in 1988 and you're off
• 2:42:53
  to roll in Doctor Who you should do it.
• 2:42:54
  Sheila love because he was married to Sheila Hancock Alec
• 2:42:58
  Ross and so we wouldn't have had Helena.
• 2:43:00
  That's how I'm convinced it happened.
• 2:43:02
  I'm putting it through now. And I'm actually really sad that
• 2:43:06
  nobody at the BFI when she was there for the happiness Patrol,
• 2:43:09
  put their hand up and said, what did your first husband,
• 2:43:12
  remember, being an episode and I'm almost kicking myself that I
• 2:43:17
  didn't do that. And but but then you get and I
• 2:43:22
  love my favorite kind of Doctor Who I think is sci-fi in a
• 2:43:26
  period setting because it has all of the virtues of what the
• 2:43:30
  BBC does so well, And and all the sort of acting that benefits
• 2:43:36
  Doctor Who so. Well as was it was it Joe or
• 2:43:39
  Lucy. One of the real regular
• 2:43:41
  correspondent said the coup of casting Mario scoring Marius
• 2:43:44
  Goring is Even though people who write up history of Doctor Who
• 2:43:48
  can't seem to get to grips with this, the the biggest name
• 2:43:51
  really, he's the only actor in the history of Doctor.
• 2:43:53
  Who certainly have classic Doctor Who to get paid more for
• 2:43:57
  being in Doctor Who than the actor, playing doctor, who he is
• 2:44:00
  a massive, massive coup of casting and looks absolutely
• 2:44:07
  fantastic. And it's, you know, it's it's a
• 2:44:13
  maximum is a great part, although he is a bit of an
• 2:44:15
  idiot, but I do also worried that when, if it ever turns up
• 2:44:22
  that I've got a really nasty feeling, he might stick his two
• 2:44:26
  arms out, like a darling, when he's terribly child in the
• 2:44:31
  playground. So I I do, I do worry but but
• 2:44:38
  that, you know, Derek martinus was so ambitious with his
• 2:44:41
  casting. The ice Warriors is chock-full
• 2:44:43
  with stars. This is chock-full with Stars of
• 2:44:46
  the future Windsor Davis became a household name.
• 2:44:49
  Brigit Forsyth became a household name.
• 2:44:52
  Gary Watson had a good run in said kills or softly softly one
• 2:44:57
  of them. Still around Gary Watson.
• 2:44:59
  So, you know, really really and I love Molly Dawson and
• 2:45:04
  particular voice. And I think Molly Dawson would
• 2:45:07
  be great fun to have around and I think would have been a great
• 2:45:10
  companion, but all of this feels like it's on the way to an epic
• 2:45:14
  as well. Dudley Simpsons music, that,
• 2:45:16
  that Dalek music when it's so dominant.
• 2:45:20
  Yeah. And it's almost like, saying we
• 2:45:23
  are building up to something really special here.
• 2:45:26
  This is Doctor Who getting sort of conscious of it so, and
• 2:45:29
  history without it being sort of the madness, is that it got to
• 2:45:33
  the 80s, but it suddenly feels like doctor, whose story is part
• 2:45:37
  of a whole mythology and as a sense of climax to the season
• 2:45:41
  and climax to appeared of doctor and indeed, because it was
• 2:45:44
  intended at the time climax to the to the Daleks themselves and
• 2:45:48
  that scene in episode 2, when the Dalek reveals itself to the
• 2:45:53
  doctor and troutman's acting is magnificent.
• 2:45:56
  It's like, you know, we take the Daleks for Granted a little bit.
• 2:45:59
  And I think in the modern series, you know, they just pop
• 2:46:01
  up in stories to go. Oh, hello.
• 2:46:02
  Let's remind you that the dark Say No.
• 2:46:04
  It should always be a moment, you know, I mean and that when
• 2:46:07
  it comes through and says doctor, now do you understand?
• 2:46:09
  And he sort of goes, oh, okay. Now and then and the music when
• 2:46:13
  that happens, it's magnificent. And as I say not much of episode
• 2:46:17
  2 is really that important. And yeah, I could watch that
• 2:46:20
  episode over and over again. So imagine what the later
• 2:46:23
  episodes. Like and the later episodes take
• 2:46:25
  us to Scarrow and you have the emperor Dalek, I mean, the
• 2:46:28
  emperor, Dalek a giant darling, built into the wall, who's only
• 2:46:33
  in about an episode and a half. If that and you go.
• 2:46:36
  Wow, they build that for that. And somebody said the word about
• 2:46:40
  the, the darling battle, the team back, they did an extra
• 2:46:43
  whole chunk of filming because they knew this was a big
• 2:46:47
  important thing. That was a whole extra segment
• 2:46:50
  of filming in order to make this battle.
• 2:46:52
  What it could be? Yes, I worry about the rolling
• 2:46:55
  Daleks but I'm gonna apply a little bit of cognitive dis And
• 2:46:59
  pretend but pretend that that was probably fine.
• 2:47:01
  It's probably fine but but it builds up to a real clients and
• 2:47:07
  it has quite a sort of You know, downbeat ending, but without it
• 2:47:11
  being too good, you know, that that kind of, you know, that the
• 2:47:14
  feels like a real weight. Of a vent and of import has
• 2:47:20
  happened. It's, I think it's a milestone
• 2:47:22
  in doctor. It does have some Ridiculousness
• 2:47:24
  but it's also experimental. Whittaker's Daleks.
• 2:47:27
  I think you are really really interesting that episode ending
• 2:47:32
  where they're playing trains. There's never been an episode
• 2:47:36
  ending like that before or since I've kind of this is a bit
• 2:47:39
  fucked up in it. Jamie as essentially what he's
• 2:47:42
  saying and and that almost met her, you know, people are
• 2:47:47
  jumping on the back of the darling.
• 2:47:48
  So the Daleks are playing trains and it's like you're in the
• 2:47:50
  school playground but it's sort of reaching out to the kids to
• 2:47:53
  say, this is a sort of slightly weird and perverse version of
• 2:47:56
  what you do. It's really interesting and
• 2:47:58
  strange and, and clever and big Eileen and Such a sort of heady
• 2:48:03
  brew that and it will have been really well made and Chris
• 2:48:07
  Thompson's design is excellent. I could not consign this to the
• 2:48:14
  Dustbin ever ever, ever and also, it's the only classic
• 2:48:19
  Doctor Who story that has somebody called Toby in it.
• 2:48:22
  You know, there's not enough Cliffhangers in Doctor Who that
• 2:48:25
  are funny. Like the end of the gunfire so
• 2:48:29
  when I know it's got like a Sinister on the tone like this
• 2:48:33
  does I just wish they did more of that in the Classic Series so
• 2:48:36
  they always go for the Jeopardy, don't they?
• 2:48:37
  It's so much more interesting, but the new series as well.
• 2:48:41
  I'd love a kind of really just unsettling weird, new series
• 2:48:46
  level, that's what makes that bad Wall clip.
• 2:48:47
  I got so great, The doctor looking out the screen, go into
• 2:48:50
  the dialects. I'm coming for you.
• 2:48:51
  All right? Yeah, that's great.
• 2:48:55
  That's right. Yeah, well, it's Christmas.
• 2:48:57
  Hello. Mark evil.
• 2:49:01
  Oh, which way are you? Which way are you going?
• 2:49:05
  Um, so, all right, even the Daleks, I've I'm a child of the
• 2:49:12
  90s, you know, I was born in 1 8 5, 92 when I watched the time
• 2:49:19
  meddler on BBC Two and I've always been told y'all even the
• 2:49:26
  dialects is a classic. It's it's one of the greatest
• 2:49:29
  Doctor Who stories ever made and you know I've listened to the
• 2:49:35
  the audio and watched you know, the one existing episode of it
• 2:49:39
  and thought, yeah, this looks fun.
• 2:49:41
  You know, how does this get from an antique shop in 1960s, London
• 2:49:45
  to a Victorian house outside of Canterbury Cesaro and the final
• 2:49:51
  end of The Valleys? This is On paper that sort of
• 2:49:55
  incredible that is as Toby says a big Epic. it's the sort of
• 2:49:59
  Epic that you kind of want to dial, my master fan speed
• 2:50:01
  without all that funny around and sort of ancient Egypt and
• 2:50:06
  but There is a lot of funding around in this.
• 2:50:09
  There's a lot of just You know. just, Victorian houses quite
• 2:50:16
  close to each other, is the recipients being held by the
• 2:50:21
  dialects and they're all. I don't like the geography of
• 2:50:24
  it. So, just a bit up in the air,
• 2:50:26
  you know? That's the first time that's
• 2:50:35
  sentences ever come up on this podcast.
• 2:50:38
  I don't, listen tell and you have the real thing that's so
• 2:50:48
  there's all of that kind of thing, but I think the main
• 2:50:51
  issue with evil is dialects for me, it's camel and I think it's
• 2:50:57
  just a deeply. Deeply problematic character.
• 2:51:02
  And I think if we're talking about Doctor Who season 4, thank
• 2:51:07
  God for all camera and in the 10th Planet because without our
• 2:51:12
  camera and we would really just have Jamaica in the Smugglers
• 2:51:17
  who is superstitious Simpleton and we would have camel who is
• 2:51:24
  absolutely an honorable and strong man who, you know, is
• 2:51:31
  fighting for what's right? But also he is described as I
• 2:51:35
  have written this down that he has an undeveloped Minds that
• 2:51:38
  he's dumb and that old just feels really, really
• 2:51:43
  uncomfortable. You have a Jaco there, you know.
• 2:51:47
  Yeah, there was shackle and Ralph in the moon base.
• 2:51:51
  I mean, he is the first one to get Noble in that 60.
• 2:51:59
  Oh wait. But not putting not always
• 2:52:02
  positively. And I think camels there's good
• 2:52:05
  elements of camels character. And the thing, the thing that
• 2:52:08
  actually upset that the thing that annoys me about camel's
• 2:52:11
  character is there's a really nice vein in this story of glass
• 2:52:17
  structures. At this idea of, you know,
• 2:52:21
  you've got the doctor and Waterfield and maximum.
• 2:52:24
  Pitting, Jamie and camel against each other.
• 2:52:27
  You've got the dialects kind of sort of watching on as these
• 2:52:30
  these sort of lofty sort of aristocratic characters.
• 2:52:34
  Hit the help against each other, you know and and Toby's The Toby
• 2:52:41
  character fits into that kind of moral as well.
• 2:52:45
  So that what you really want to happen, you know, camel has to
• 2:52:49
  die because they're not taking the targets with them at the end
• 2:52:53
  of the story. But what I want to see is I want
• 2:52:56
  to see camel. And maximum going over the edge
• 2:53:00
  of that cliff. Together, I want camels last at
• 2:53:05
  to be like you know what mate fuck you you like?
• 2:53:09
  I've been, you know, putting up with your bulshit for however
• 2:53:11
  long and, And that's it and so that he at least gets a bit of
• 2:53:17
  agency, gets a bit of power. Gets gets to kind of strike one
• 2:53:21
  thing against against his old boss.
• 2:53:24
  But he doesn't get that Maxima, throws him off a cliff, Jamie
• 2:53:28
  and Victoria. Luke called into, oh, poor
• 2:53:30
  camel. you know, it's really Depressing, all writing of
• 2:53:36
  Doctor Who history? I'm sure if it's the Doctor Who
• 2:53:39
  archive or something the first version or history, I read of
• 2:53:42
  evil of the Daleks that's what happened.
• 2:53:45
  That right? Oh, that's interesting.
• 2:53:46
  Go off together. Well, that's that's certainly.
• 2:53:48
  What was in my head and so it's quite a surprise to me when I
• 2:53:50
  you know, visited it later on that Maxwell.
• 2:53:53
  We don't actually see Maxwell die.
• 2:53:55
  Yeah. Do we don't actually see him die
• 2:53:57
  which is really peculiar. Well don't think, you know, he
• 2:54:00
  sort of ranting at the door. Yeah, and that's it.
• 2:54:03
  And the implication is that he just kind of goes back into the
• 2:54:06
  sort of so he will eventually die.
• 2:54:08
  Presumably is the dialect City, kind of blows up and and
• 2:54:11
  whatever, I think you've only got our take a look over your
• 2:54:14
  shoulder at the side, man, to see how this thing can be done.
• 2:54:17
  Really, really badly camel is Sean in a much more positive.
• 2:54:24
  It's the very next story. Yeah, there is that.
• 2:54:28
  So that's, that's thing. However, however, this is good.
• 2:54:34
  But there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot, there's a lot of
• 2:54:38
  padding, there's a lot of Fanning around.
• 2:54:39
  But when isn't there in sort of long Doctor Who stories that
• 2:54:43
  have to, for Budget reasons or whatever?
• 2:54:45
  I have to kind of stretch things out to Breaking Point and nobody
• 2:54:50
  writes. The dialects is interesting is
• 2:54:53
  David worker and Like, you will not feed the flying pests
• 2:54:59
  outside. Amazing dialogue.
• 2:55:02
  Like, we don't get dialogue as intra, like, as funny as this
• 2:55:07
  for the dialects, until maybe this isn't War.
• 2:55:10
  This is pest control in Doomsday.
• 2:55:15
  Like and what's like a reproaches the dialects as
• 2:55:18
  characters in their own right? Which is something we don't
• 2:55:20
  really get again. Until again, maybe the RTD era
• 2:55:25
  when you've got Dalek SEC. But he has to go that one step
• 2:55:29
  further and kind of make him into this kind of Sort of mutant
• 2:55:33
  characters. But what Whitaker does is he
• 2:55:36
  adds new ones to this kind of thing.
• 2:55:38
  He goes. All right, the doctor creates
• 2:55:40
  human dialects. And then how do they interact?
• 2:55:44
  So they're they will I love that whole thing of like will obey
• 2:55:48
  but not without question, That's such a lovely little, you know?
• 2:55:54
  Thing. And so that's really good.
• 2:55:57
  I love all that stuff. I love the Dalek Civil War.
• 2:56:01
  I love the Dalek dialogue that it's so character for like the,
• 2:56:05
  the two, the sort of black dial and Dalek.
• 2:56:09
  I think it's Dalek, oh my God, I can't think it maybe.
• 2:56:12
  Yes. Oh my God, because I see the
• 2:56:13
  replicate the central. Um, they're kind of bickering.
• 2:56:19
  Essentially, there's all that stuff is so fantastic.
• 2:56:29
  And you never really get it again.
• 2:56:30
  And speaking of things that we never get again, my third Well,
• 2:56:35
  not my second reason for preparing this through, but my
• 2:56:38
  third reason overall. Jamie, mcmen over.
• 2:56:42
  We're going a little too. Hey, there we go.
• 2:56:44
  Applause. Everybody.
• 2:56:53
  But another thing that we will never see as good again is Jamie
• 2:56:58
  McCrimmon lies. God.
• 2:57:02
  I'm not surprised phraser, Hines.
• 2:57:05
  Novels this obviously with, with some ghost riders.
• 2:57:09
  But novels even though it's because it is his best story.
• 2:57:14
  For the character. Jamie McCrimmon he gets to be
• 2:57:17
  the hero and save the girl. So there's that element of it
• 2:57:20
  but also he At this stage, is it maybe only Stephen Taylor to a
• 2:57:27
  certain extent, Susan because just because she's his
• 2:57:30
  granddaughter. It's very rare that.
• 2:57:33
  After he and Barbara. The doctor's companions actually
• 2:57:38
  go on a minute here, mate. It's a great speaks to me like
• 2:57:43
  you know, so well script that's saying brilliant.
• 2:57:47
  And because the because trout in and Hines of kind of worked on
• 2:57:51
  that chemistry over the past however many weeks running up to
• 2:57:54
  that scene. It really hits hard as well.
• 2:57:58
  Like you feel the Betrayal, you feel Jamie kind of feeling as if
• 2:58:05
  he's just being played by his best friend and kind of how dare
• 2:58:08
  he do that. It's what you can't imagine me
• 2:58:11
  saying, isn't it? I'm dumb.
• 2:58:13
  Here. I'm done with you.
• 2:58:15
  Yeah, it's so great. It's gonna goes Jamie.
• 2:58:18
  You're in a temper. He's just stirring the pot.
• 2:58:22
  He's getting what he wants. You know, and that's it.
• 2:58:24
  Yeah, it's really really beautifully done and then
• 2:58:28
  finally with Jamie I absolutely love you love the bit and I
• 2:58:34
  think it's part is it in part seven we're a maxable still
• 2:58:37
  obsessed with getting the kind of The The Secret of alchemy and
• 2:58:42
  Jamie said, well be no bloody, you used to see if you can't fuk
• 2:58:45
  and use it and he's like, he's towards him, you know, and it's
• 2:58:51
  great. And unfortunately after this
• 2:58:55
  point because of just get him as the kind of no, quite the Yoko
• 2:59:02
  but it's not far off a lot of hero.
• 2:59:05
  He's either the action hero or he's the dumb your call and
• 2:59:08
  that's kind of it. We don't get the kind of
• 2:59:11
  three-dimensional Jamie that I think we get an evil of that,
• 2:59:14
  which is shame. There was going through.
• 2:59:19
  Oh yeah, but just hello. Hello.
• 2:59:23
  I think it was Lawrence Mayo, say, you know, mad old Lauren
• 2:59:27
  Smiles but also very insightful in one of the about times that
• 2:59:31
  even of the Daleks is like, a great Christmas pudding, you
• 2:59:34
  know, it's full of all of these elements that don't belong
• 2:59:37
  together at all. And yet somehow you jam all day
• 2:59:40
  and it's rich and delicious and lovely.
• 2:59:43
  And boy, is it? I feel like David Whittaker is a
• 2:59:47
  bit like lady penfold in silver. Nemesis go with me here.
• 2:59:50
  All right. All things shall be my time,
• 2:59:57
  pass present and future, because that's exactly what he does.
• 3:00:01
  In this story, he's gonna, he's gonna Jam the whole of Doctor
• 3:00:04
  Who into seven episodes. And if there was a third, Peter
• 3:00:09
  cushion movie, I would nominate evil of the Daleks because it
• 3:00:12
  absolutely exemplifies everything Doctor Who can do.
• 3:00:16
  And I'm gonna be really brief because everyone's sort of done
• 3:00:19
  a lot of details. Well, picked something from the
• 3:00:22
  past, something from the present, present, and something
• 3:00:24
  from the future to exemplify the best of evil of the Daleks.
• 3:00:27
  Well, Now it's me doing it, so we're just going to be ran over
• 3:00:31
  things. So from the past, it's Molly
• 3:00:33
  Dawson exhibit. Oh, Where Are We Now?
• 3:00:36
  Zed of companions that should have been in season 5, but
• 3:00:41
  probably my favorite of all of them, right?
• 3:00:43
  Oh, you did have a night last night so I didn't you.
• 3:00:46
  She is so wonderful. She is spunky.
• 3:00:50
  She's funny, she's likable. She has instant chemistry with
• 3:00:53
  Frazer Hines when they're sort of going around at night with
• 3:00:56
  the candles on their mission. I just could see this and see
• 3:01:00
  some five working like gangbusters.
• 3:01:02
  Again, Victor have photographs of The Producers or something.
• 3:01:10
  You know, blackmailing them now. Okay, the three of them come
• 3:01:14
  together in five and they've got great chemistry.
• 3:01:16
  I think on her own Victoria is a bit of a lousy character and
• 3:01:20
  Debbie was a mixed actress. But it can work in a season, but
• 3:01:25
  there are just so many great examples of potential
• 3:01:27
  companions. In this season, it's baffling
• 3:01:31
  the choice that they made in the end.
• 3:01:32
  But we're here. But Molly's wonderful, isn't she
• 3:01:35
  really funny? And she makes those middle.
• 3:01:39
  All the other characters are colorful and funny and great but
• 3:01:42
  she makes those Middle episodes seen for me.
• 3:01:44
  The Press, I would like to highlight the tri color coffee
• 3:01:49
  bar. If I met yeah purely because
• 3:01:52
  just don't think we do this enough.
• 3:01:54
  We don't we we're on Earth and we're going to such a
• 3:01:57
  recognizable setting. For the kids, you know, we did
• 3:02:01
  it in the war machines in a club and we do it here in the tree
• 3:02:04
  color, coffee bar and we really don't do it again.
• 3:02:07
  Despite the fact, we have an entire fucking era set on Earth.
• 3:02:12
  Until what Rusty Davis's time may not even in the McCoy here.
• 3:02:16
  I don't think even another thing you What where the kids would
• 3:02:20
  hang out? I'm not really, you know but
• 3:02:22
  like that red full chicken place in Bad Wolf Part another ways
• 3:02:27
  where they're just sit in and, you know, the chickens turning
• 3:02:30
  just a recognizable Earth setting, there is an amazing.
• 3:02:33
  How dare you the Tea Room in silver nemesis I mean, come on.
• 3:02:40
  I've been there recently. You know, so Vivian face Kos in
• 3:02:44
  the stones of blood possibly, if you're you know that way in
• 3:02:47
  client. But no I love it and I love the
• 3:02:50
  fact, I can't remember what music's playing but it's a
• 3:02:52
  well-known tune, isn't it? That I think they've experienced
• 3:02:55
  trucks isn't too Beatles tracks back, right?
• 3:02:59
  I was another Beatles track I think as well and just Jamie's
• 3:03:02
  floating with a girls and everyone's dancing and it's just
• 3:03:06
  so great. It's so fun and so recognizable.
• 3:03:09
  And I'm just really pleased. It's there.
• 3:03:11
  I'm surprised when we came back, maybe not Weber fear and a big,
• 3:03:15
  you know, the emergency maybe in the invasion we could have done
• 3:03:18
  a bit of that, you know? So yeah.
• 3:03:20
  So I love that in the present and in the future I adore the
• 3:03:23
  dialect Civil War because what's the only way you could possibly
• 3:03:27
  bring the dolls to a grand climax?
• 3:03:29
  It's to set them on themselves. The only thing that can bring
• 3:03:32
  down the dialects is the Daleks and it just it's epic.
• 3:03:37
  It's bloody epic. It goes on for like five and a
• 3:03:39
  half minutes or something. Toby, you're right clearly.
• 3:03:41
  Extra time has been given to that huge Emperor.
• 3:03:44
  Dalek screaming, smokes, fill in the place that Daleks wandering
• 3:03:47
  around a place, like bees in a hive.
• 3:03:49
  It's absolutely mental. And frankly, it's probably the
• 3:03:54
  climax. The Daleks deserved and maybe I
• 3:03:57
  mean I love a lot of stories. After this, but maybe, you know,
• 3:04:00
  this could have been where they ended.
• 3:04:02
  There's a million things to love about this.
• 3:04:07
  The thing I love about it. Most of all though, is that
• 3:04:09
  Terry nation was Savvy enough to take his 15 quid per episode and
• 3:04:13
  hand the dialects to David Whittaker.
• 3:04:15
  And that David wicker didn't just say, I'm just gonna do more
• 3:04:18
  of this, Darlings, trying to conquer the universe, and he
• 3:04:22
  pushed their psychology of the Daleks in power of the Daleks
• 3:04:25
  and then just explore their potential.
• 3:04:27
  In a million ways because shopping are darling in a period
• 3:04:32
  drama. Is that the weirdest mix of
• 3:04:35
  things you could possibly do? And yet the scenes shot from
• 3:04:38
  that top Gallery, looking down at that darling going around
• 3:04:42
  those corridors, he's fucking gorgeous.
• 3:04:44
  And this story is that that is the story.
• 3:04:47
  It's just full of incongruous things jammed together and
• 3:04:51
  because everybody involved is at the height of their game,
• 3:04:54
  especially since on that school that music when Jamie and camel
• 3:04:59
  are fighting, there's no dialogue for protracted sings
• 3:05:02
  and that music is Cinematic is gorgeous.
• 3:05:06
  This is just brilliant. Of course is going through, yes,
• 3:05:10
  world. This is your moment of insanity
• 3:05:13
  for season 4. Thank you very much, right?
• 3:05:16
  We've got through four stories. I know we have power moon base
• 3:05:21
  and macro Tower, what you gonna pay?
• 3:05:28
  Ah, oh God. Mark, do you have a preference
• 3:05:31
  to cover out of macro and Power? And no not really, I wouldn't
• 3:05:39
  say. So I've got things to say on
• 3:05:41
  both of them but yeah I'll leave it in your very capable hands.
• 3:05:45
  Oh, the other thing about evil is they repeat it that must be
• 3:05:49
  good. And the other thing about the
• 3:05:51
  trickle or copy see is that they have the music but then when the
• 3:05:55
  when the doctor gets really foreboding about it, they cut
• 3:05:57
  the music in the background because this is so important.
• 3:06:01
  You know, there's so many different and the dough and the
• 3:06:04
  darling can't understand why Victoria's lost weight, because
• 3:06:07
  it's a darling. It's going to be lost weight
• 3:06:09
  this up because I really stressed out.
• 3:06:11
  Hasn't got a clue, you, oh, love it.
• 3:06:14
  Alright, so what, oh, do I go to the obvious one?
• 3:06:19
  Or do I go for the? No, let's go.
• 3:06:22
  I'm gonna go from. I, I said, I would do this.
• 3:06:24
  I said, I would absent myself from the two obvious bookends
• 3:06:28
  and so I will take The macro Terror humans with a prey in the
• 3:06:34
  chilling, the macroptera it said in the radio times 20th
• 3:06:38
  anniversary special and there was that fabulous picture of the
• 3:06:41
  controller and the claw coming to get him.
• 3:06:44
  And it's like, wow, Doctor Who in the olden days looked amazing
• 3:06:47
  and how many pictures must there, be of this story.
• 3:06:51
  And basically, there was two pictures of Peter Jeffrey and it
• 3:06:54
  would clever with an iron bar and that was it.
• 3:06:56
  We didn't even have a picture of the macro.
• 3:06:58
  When I was a boy, then somebody found one of him in a field or
• 3:07:01
  where it was and that tell us that turned up much later.
• 3:07:06
  And then we got the the clips as well but yeah when I was a lad
• 3:07:11
  there were about three pictures. But I love that image of Graham
• 3:07:17
  Lehmann cowering at the claw that to me is such a doctor we
• 3:07:20
  think and then when you actually see the clip, he's got totally
• 3:07:22
  different makeup. So that was obviously taken you
• 3:07:25
  know in the in the in the afternoon and then they then
• 3:07:27
  they make him all sort of Dusty. But I I expected a story about
• 3:07:33
  killer Krabs to be a bit like the tenth planet, you know, a
• 3:07:37
  base full of military figures, I thought it'd be sort of Jerry
• 3:07:40
  Davis style of Doctor Who. So then, when I discovered, it
• 3:07:43
  was set in a Holiday Camp. I was like, oh no, that's not
• 3:07:47
  what I wanted it to be like, you know, the film them or
• 3:07:49
  something, you know, giant marauding things getting shot
• 3:07:52
  out and flamethrower and that's what it would be like.
• 3:07:54
  Oh, my brother had some books called Knight of the crabs by
• 3:07:56
  Guy. Turns out I was at school with
• 3:07:59
  his, with his, with his son and his daughter.
• 3:08:02
  They that one year above me, one year below me.
• 3:08:04
  Um, so wow, amazing. Anyways, that's stopped going
• 3:08:08
  down, unnecessary. Anyways, Toby, this isn't the
• 3:08:10
  underwater Menace and so now I'm going to head over to a
• 3:08:16
  Superfluous Irishman but the Mac, so the Mac.
• 3:08:22
  So I, I was then like, oh, I'm not sure, I want the macroptera
• 3:08:26
  to be set in a Holiday Camp because that's not what I
• 3:08:28
  imagined. And, of course, Dr. Who is I
• 3:08:31
  think at its most successful when it is a Congregation of
• 3:08:36
  things that you alluded to their Joey that shouldn't necessarily
• 3:08:39
  go together. And I, and I, I decided sometime
• 3:08:44
  ago that what I really love about Doctor Who that makes it
• 3:08:47
  so different from everything else.
• 3:08:49
  It's that it does, dissonance so well, it puts things next to
• 3:08:53
  each other, that shouldn't work or that work, by the very nature
• 3:08:58
  of the fact that they clash. And that is encapsulated by
• 3:09:01
  that, ramshackle police box that can land in a period setting in
• 3:09:05
  an old gorgeous building or in a futuristic space Vista and yet
• 3:09:10
  somehow just look magical and it's a fucking box.
• 3:09:13
  It's a police box and yet. Ah, and so having mind
• 3:09:20
  controlling crabs, You know, as the dark underbelly of this.
• 3:09:27
  We've all been there. Yes.
• 3:09:29
  This year holiday. Colony, I think is a beautifully
• 3:09:35
  Doctor Who we think. And again, there are certain
• 3:09:38
  things and I think this this is there's a lot of season 4 here.
• 3:09:41
  That if you have to be generous to it, in a way, I had to be
• 3:09:44
  generous to the, The Faceless ones ending, because of what it
• 3:09:47
  represented rather than because it actually how it is.
• 3:09:50
  I have to be generous to even of the dialects, because of some of
• 3:09:53
  the, the science within and we'll find that with lots of
• 3:09:57
  lots of different elements of this this season.
• 3:10:00
  And I think with macroptera you do have to sort of Wonder at the
• 3:10:03
  practicality of it. What quite how the the crabs are
• 3:10:08
  going about their business, and what the controllers doing for
• 3:10:12
  the rest of the time. Because that and I love that
• 3:10:14
  entry episode 2, where the poor old man is presented on.
• 3:10:17
  But, why do they should why? When the doctor says, I'd like
• 3:10:19
  to see the controller. Why did the crabs go?
• 3:10:21
  Get the patrol at the clubs? It's annoying Trump.
• 3:10:27
  Who said, so we better be nice. We better show, then stick him
• 3:10:30
  in a chair and then he sort of goes.
• 3:10:31
  Oh, do you want me to say? Thing I said, is it is it by is
• 3:10:35
  it my line love and then they go, oh, you're you're taking too
• 3:10:38
  long. So we're gonna eat you in front
• 3:10:40
  of everybody. And yeah, it's a great
• 3:10:43
  Cliffhanger because he's, you know, he's grabbed on the screen
• 3:10:45
  and pull the last line to be. Yes, it's absolutely fantastic.
• 3:10:51
  But it doesn't really stand up to an awful lot of scrutiny, but
• 3:10:55
  it is a story with ambition. It's not enough that they go.
• 3:10:59
  We've got giant crabs, even though that obviously wasn't in
• 3:11:02
  the original script and then when they decided it was crabs,
• 3:11:05
  nobody bothered to get out the tip X and tips out insects or
• 3:11:09
  every, you know, every single different thing that I think
• 3:11:11
  they described them as all sorts of things from insects to
• 3:11:14
  Wellington Boots to Mama Duke Cassie.
• 3:11:16
  I did I just get nobody goes. Should we change this to crab
• 3:11:19
  that? Don't worry.
• 3:11:20
  Nobody will notice but You know, there's there's there's ambition
• 3:11:26
  there to do a story that is about Conformity, and you know,
• 3:11:34
  who's really in in charge. And this, this is, there's been
• 3:11:38
  a lot of talk of when the Patrick trout and becomes the
• 3:11:41
  doctor. I don't know when that happens.
• 3:11:42
  I don't really mind but what this story does, is it, it is
• 3:11:46
  exemplifies. And there's there are
• 3:11:48
  interesting facets to Patrick. And some of which I choose to
• 3:11:51
  ignore, I don't like the idea really of the doctor being a
• 3:11:53
  cheery murderer, but that is a reading that has been given and
• 3:11:57
  can be. And I, I wouldn't necessarily
• 3:11:59
  reject, but I I prefer to concentrate, which is what we
• 3:12:02
  all do for our worldview. We go.
• 3:12:04
  Well, I'll just concentrate on the things that I like in the
• 3:12:06
  coincide with my worldview. I like the Doctor Who says you
• 3:12:11
  all have had a lot of instructions.
• 3:12:12
  You know, do this, do that, do the other, my advice to you
• 3:12:14
  don't do anything of the sort. That's a beautifully, Patrick
• 3:12:17
  trout line. I love that and I like that Ben
• 3:12:21
  gets and Michael crazy. I think is very good that Ben
• 3:12:24
  gets Something to do in being the one that is that is taken
• 3:12:26
  over. And it seems so sad.
• 3:12:28
  Watching it going God, that kicked out in two episodes after
• 3:12:31
  this story is finished. But but you know, that that
• 3:12:36
  wrestling between humanity and and sort of You know, drone-like
• 3:12:44
  or automata. But but also with that extra
• 3:12:48
  added thing of that they're living in a world that's a bit
• 3:12:51
  like the prisoner where everyone's sort of cheery and,
• 3:12:54
  and it has this veneer. And I think anything that has a
• 3:12:57
  society that looks outwardly marvelous, that if you scratch,
• 3:13:01
  the service has all sorts of terrible things going on
• 3:13:04
  underneath I think is always rather rather more fun and and
• 3:13:08
  shines a light on us in a Way Beyond just being a sort of
• 3:13:12
  action adventure. It's got something to say about
• 3:13:14
  identity and about A, you know, how we think of ourselves and
• 3:13:19
  how we project ourselves and what might be going on
• 3:13:21
  underneath either personally, or in terms of as a society, we
• 3:13:25
  then do though have to brush aside.
• 3:13:27
  The fact that Doctor Who's basically going.
• 3:13:29
  Yeah, the guys who's this planet belongs to the crab guys, they
• 3:13:34
  are crabs and we are sort of. We look like people, so fuck
• 3:13:38
  them up. But again, you know, I, I give I
• 3:13:45
  give the sixth is a little bit of leeway on that because
• 3:13:47
  Doctor, Who is already more sophisticated than a lot of
• 3:13:50
  stuff of that period. And some of the stuff that we
• 3:13:53
  just, you know, have to accept as being sort of aspects of, you
• 3:13:58
  know, how, what sort of complexity was being aim for
• 3:14:00
  they were looking at sort of different things and, you know,
• 3:14:03
  that a lot of adventurers, you know, goodies and baddies and
• 3:14:05
  this, that the other, and I think what they're going for
• 3:14:07
  here. It is ambitious in so many other
• 3:14:10
  areas. Again, I kind of Forgive that a
• 3:14:14
  little bit and I mean it's got its the monsters, a massive
• 3:14:19
  crab, got a massive crab in it, what's not?
• 3:14:23
  It's Doctor Who and the massive ramps.
• 3:14:25
  I mean and I'd love Dudley Simpsons music because he's got
• 3:14:29
  the, the two cling, you know, facade stuff.
• 3:14:31
  But actually the sort of organic stuff is really.
• 3:14:34
  And I also really love that. Nobody talks about is when
• 3:14:38
  they're on the planet surface, there's these really weird
• 3:14:40
  whistles and that is really sort of the planet has a really sort
• 3:14:46
  of edgy and, and strange soundscape that I think is a
• 3:14:50
  really lovely attention to detail that again.
• 3:14:52
  Makes it just seemed a little strange and offbeat and a little
• 3:14:56
  bit weird. And I think it's it's lovely CP
• 3:14:59
  to Jeffrey all though. I think he's slightly, it's not
• 3:15:01
  the best use of his talents because he was such a marvelous
• 3:15:03
  actor. So glad he comes back as as
• 3:15:06
  counter, but I think Terence Lodge does a very good job as as
• 3:15:10
  me Doc. Even though, As he spoke.
• 3:15:14
  Fortunately one of the few pudding bull haircuts in the
• 3:15:17
  history of Doctor Who and and that's probably the reason the
• 3:15:20
  episode's were junked and but yeah, I I think it's I think
• 3:15:27
  it's different from what I imagined it would be an and when
• 3:15:32
  I remember doing it with Rob for running through corridors and
• 3:15:36
  expecting it to be because I like like all the black and
• 3:15:38
  white stuff and I like the fact that when you watch this stuff
• 3:15:40
  because it's less familiar to us, there would be some
• 3:15:44
  surprises. I was surprised that this
• 3:15:45
  actually became a 10 out of 10 for me.
• 3:15:47
  This was a, not just a most most stuff of most 60 stuff would,
• 3:15:51
  you know, would be hard pressed to go.
• 3:15:53
  Probably below a seven anyway, because of, you know, the
• 3:15:56
  archeology and the history and the aura that it has.
• 3:15:59
  But I was really surprised as I tend to, like, sort of gritty
• 3:16:03
  based under cgt sort of stuff or, you know, lyrical historical
• 3:16:07
  stuff. I was really surprised that that
• 3:16:10
  this sort of, you know, crab ridden, a Holiday Camp was was
• 3:16:14
  one that really I thought was was absolutely sort of Pitch.
• 3:16:19
  Perfect. So a surprising one for me that
• 3:16:22
  that I nonetheless would would have as a 10 out of 10.
• 3:16:27
  Give that lightly and and therefore one that will that
• 3:16:30
  will will stay, and it's a perfect story for this Dr.
• 3:16:35
  Troutman absolutely owns it. So I'm keeping the macroptera
• 3:16:40
  the bit, whereas the sum. Yeah, then throws the Warwick.
• 3:16:44
  Oh look, I got it right Bob mistake.
• 3:16:46
  That's his doctor foreign for his name.
• 3:16:49
  Yeah. Let's go to the comments, Jason
• 3:16:51
  Thompson says I don't care for it even at four episode it just
• 3:16:55
  plods along, some interesting ideas.
• 3:16:57
  But after three episodes of macra being presented as
• 3:17:00
  creeping giant crabs, the headquarter sits in an office
• 3:17:03
  and speaks with an RP accent. I got one thing to say to Jason
• 3:17:07
  Thompson have fun while you carve before they crawl all
• 3:17:11
  over. So sorry, Michael storms says,
• 3:17:14
  despite predating the prison out, the story shares a similar
• 3:17:17
  Vibe. Possibly influenced by dangerous
• 3:17:20
  Colony 3. Making this one of the most
• 3:17:22
  1960s of 602 People beats as this deserves its release songs,
• 3:17:27
  it's rather profound societal commentary is made delicious by
• 3:17:30
  giant space, crabs and Camp. Everyone who has tried to
• 3:17:34
  reimagine the giant space crabs. I love saying that has skimped
• 3:17:37
  on the blinking bug. Eyes on the stinky spine's
• 3:17:40
  Daniel rosslea bizarre and arresting.
• 3:17:43
  This era is all about the freedom to be different.
• 3:17:45
  Especially here my control, mine control, get it been going all
• 3:17:52
  Manchurian Candidate and the doctors line always make up your
• 3:17:54
  own mind. The MacRae gas.
• 3:17:58
  Jolly camp music. Complex cater cookies that I
• 3:18:01
  remember this. Having the reputation of being a
• 3:18:03
  bit of a dud. So I'm pleased.
• 3:18:04
  It's hard to deserved reappraise over the last few years, the
• 3:18:07
  campus Patrol, a genuine classic Tweed.
• 3:18:10
  Jolly artifice given way to a hidden Sinister oppression.
• 3:18:13
  That's just sorry, that's such a Can that's such a quintessential
• 3:18:17
  Doctor Who concept Rod. Sorry here is that 1984 but with
• 3:18:23
  giant crabs only in Doctor Who but the ending isn't quite as
• 3:18:26
  strong. Look since Jenkins says a
• 3:18:29
  classic, it's a go to soundtrack for me and really works on
• 3:18:32
  audio. Nothing around it sounds like
• 3:18:33
  this creepy and fun kafka-esque story, Big Orange.
• 3:18:37
  Michael said I dismissed this and so I got the audio set
• 3:18:40
  narrated by Colin Baker. Then I desperately wanted it
• 3:18:42
  back subversive little story and maybe the highlights of the Year
• 3:18:46
  Daniel nights and clever ideas about subjugation and control
• 3:18:49
  Michael crazy, gets more to do than just win about getting back
• 3:18:52
  to. The Tardis trout was the market,
• 3:18:54
  doctor is a world away from Heartland wisdom.
• 3:18:56
  Well, since his best of the Season, creepy political, and
• 3:19:00
  sexy with all of Jamie's wrestler's tossing in his sleep.
• 3:19:03
  We need more from the great Ian, Stuart black, I think we've
• 3:19:07
  converted Paul Quinn over the course of this podcast.
• 3:19:10
  How do you say the next name? Hey homie, let's go revert.
• 3:19:15
  Kiyomi says. I recently watched this for the
• 3:19:18
  first time, I remember it fever. If it's, if it's Gaelic, it
• 3:19:22
  would be Quiva Kiva Kiva says, I recently watched this little
• 3:19:26
  first time, I remember it being derided as an example of rubber
• 3:19:30
  sets and wobbly monsters, but actually it's a really great
• 3:19:32
  story. Well, Smyth is a brilliant sale.
• 3:19:35
  Good. See, been getting lots to do
• 3:19:37
  plus scary monsters and Peter Jeffrey being superb.
• 3:19:39
  Once again, the music is the best of the Season, Lucifer
• 3:19:43
  call. I wish macra, or any rate, the
• 3:19:45
  macroptera did exist. I'd love to see a young Peter
• 3:19:48
  Jeffrey in the rest of the cast, though.
• 3:19:50
  I'm glad we have the animation, like all crazy is creepy when
• 3:19:53
  hypnotized and the baddies being joined crabs, it's a brilliant
• 3:19:56
  idea. He's a great group, said unusual
• 3:19:59
  for this time, a story with a message as we discover the power
• 3:20:01
  of propaganda. Oh, and Gus munchkin crabs.
• 3:20:04
  Another high concept sci-fi Belta.
• 3:20:07
  We Troutman in full and the kiss mode on a Dudley score.
• 3:20:10
  That's pure air worm. Jack Koya easily.
• 3:20:13
  My Over here. I love the juxtaposition of
• 3:20:15
  happy. Flappy atmosphere hiding
• 3:20:17
  Sinister goings on in Stuart black covering the same
• 3:20:20
  territory as the Savages but that but makes the pop
• 3:20:24
  Aesthetics and characters a lot more interesting and colorful,
• 3:20:27
  but always with the controller, watching part Big Brother, part
• 3:20:31
  Wizard of Oz in Malibu says a solid story, which finds more to
• 3:20:34
  do with the companions than the previous Story, the macro pretty
• 3:20:37
  terrifying. And, although not the original
• 3:20:39
  presentation, the animation is stunning.
• 3:20:41
  It'll never be a top 10, but it's solid and finally darling.
• 3:20:45
  It roundels says another. Good atmosphere.
• 3:20:48
  One, the whole happy set up with something dark underneath his
• 3:20:51
  very enjoyable. Love the look at the colony from
• 3:20:53
  the photo's. All the regulars, get a good
• 3:20:55
  throw of the dice. So can I can I just add before?
• 3:20:59
  Because the one thing I forgotten it's really important.
• 3:21:01
  John Davis, the director never directed.
• 3:21:03
  Another doctor who he did. Direct the BBC's Epic War and
• 3:21:07
  Peace with Anthony Hopkins. He's a Top Flight director.
• 3:21:10
  There's a lot of stuff that we see in the Telly snaps like the
• 3:21:12
  opening scene with, with whatever medoc is doing, there
• 3:21:16
  isn't in the camera script. So, again, in terms of
• 3:21:18
  archeology, there are bits and I know that he said when The scene
• 3:21:22
  where me docs interrogated, he'd he'd stuck him on a revolving to
• 3:21:27
  make it more interesting and did stuff with the camera.
• 3:21:29
  So it's gonna be one of those that if we ever see it will, I
• 3:21:33
  think be full of surprises because it's got a director who
• 3:21:37
  proved his pedigree later on but who we already know has put
• 3:21:41
  stuff in that. We can't quite imagine what it
• 3:21:44
  is. But we've got little bits of
• 3:21:46
  evidence to show that it would have been really arresting and
• 3:21:48
  and imagined if visually. So.
• 3:21:51
  And again the 1984 element with with with with the sort of
• 3:21:55
  grimly and controller Big Brother thing as well, would I
• 3:21:59
  think have probably been very artfully inserted into it by
• 3:22:03
  John Davis. So I think he'll be a key part
• 3:22:06
  of its success, but of course we we don't know because we can't
• 3:22:08
  see it. And can I jump in and say
• 3:22:10
  something about different types of the underwater Menace and
• 3:22:14
  completely agree with you totally that we just the bits.
• 3:22:17
  We don't see. So we see the reprise of the
• 3:22:21
  Cliffhanger the beginning of Episode 2.
• 3:22:24
  But fortunately, because we've got the Australian censor Clips.
• 3:22:26
  We also see what it looked like at the end of episode one, and
• 3:22:29
  it looks completely different. So the end of episode one as
• 3:22:32
  opposed to the beginning of episode 2, which are the same
• 3:22:35
  sequence. But obviously it's reshot.
• 3:22:36
  You've got a sequence where you've got a fish person staring
• 3:22:40
  through our glass window a polyline on the operating table
• 3:22:44
  and it's creepy as fuk. It really makes that scene feel
• 3:22:48
  really different. You don't see that when you get
• 3:22:50
  two episode two, they the fish person has gone completely which
• 3:22:54
  is see the operating table, but it just shows us all these.
• 3:22:57
  You're absolutely right. You just that all these little
• 3:22:59
  glimpses and direct oral flourishes that we just are
• 3:23:03
  missing. That would you know, possibly
• 3:23:05
  Elevate these stories far higher than you know we give them
• 3:23:07
  credit for. This is why I need to pick those
• 3:23:09
  12 films up from the car boots sale.
• 3:23:11
  Please. Just make sure it's not evil of
• 3:23:15
  the darling. I'll leave it.
• 3:23:19
  I'll leave it there. Leave it there.
• 3:23:20
  Yeah. mark, yeah, Mark Sarah and so, I think this is great.
• 3:23:28
  I came to it via the animation because I've never been great on
• 3:23:34
  the tether that be constructions and I find it quite hard to
• 3:23:39
  engage with just the still images and this aircraft and all
• 3:23:42
  that kind of thing. And getting that blue.
• 3:23:45
  I was like it blew my mind. I was it.
• 3:23:48
  This feels like a lost. classic, you know, and I'd love for it to
• 3:23:54
  be returned and I probably won't be, you know, we probably have
• 3:23:58
  to make a piece for that, but I hope it is.
• 3:24:00
  I hope it is. There's a slight tangential
• 3:24:04
  personal story with this before I get into my reasons why I like
• 3:24:07
  it. And I about 12 years ago, this
• 3:24:13
  doesn't involve crops does it Mark because I might need to
• 3:24:15
  exercise this, but it does, it does relate to form a
• 3:24:19
  relationship, but there's no clouds.
• 3:24:21
  Oh, but I was I I was in a relationship with somebody who
• 3:24:27
  was a distant relation of Bill Roberts From shock crafts.
• 3:24:34
  Who obviously Bill the build? The MacBook build Alex.
• 3:24:39
  And she told me this story that the first sight of the family,
• 3:24:43
  but some whatever point. She didn't believe so Roberts.
• 3:24:48
  That he'd he'd played any part in in building the Dallas.
• 3:24:52
  So, no, he absolutely did. Like and I hope to God that I'm
• 3:24:59
  sure he did because he pulled the fucking Daleks.
• 3:25:02
  I'm sure he went to his grave going now about the darks.
• 3:25:05
  Fuck that side of the family. There are Pricks.
• 3:25:07
  But anyway so that's that's my kind of sort of very tangential
• 3:25:13
  link to my potatoes and I thought you were going to say
• 3:25:16
  that they had this enormous crab that they all played on when
• 3:25:19
  they were kids. Yeah, it was okay in the garden
• 3:25:24
  which is a massive and no, I think this is great.
• 3:25:28
  I think as someone's ability to in the comments and is it's
• 3:25:34
  playing on that same. Critique of communist Russia and
• 3:25:41
  communist China. That kind of idea.
• 3:25:43
  Everything's great. Everything you do isn't service
• 3:25:47
  of the colony, you know and then use it and they said I
• 3:25:52
  interviewed Dominic Glenn recently a convention but I wore
• 3:25:55
  this t-shirt, this Candyman t-shirts and We talked about
• 3:25:59
  kind of music like sort of doctors were music is really
• 3:26:03
  important. I was going to say, happiness
• 3:26:05
  control is one of the rare ones you've got Dell in the bottom.
• 3:26:08
  And I think this, Um, where music plays, such a key role in
• 3:26:15
  the story. And it's all the songs they
• 3:26:18
  sing. It's all the.
• 3:26:20
  That's a really communist China. Particularly That's a that kind
• 3:26:26
  of workers song kind of thing where you're all singing In
• 3:26:30
  Praise of of Chairman Mao or Lenin or the macro and in this
• 3:26:38
  big. So, I think that's a really,
• 3:26:40
  really interesting kind of things to your story about at
• 3:26:44
  this period. and obviously, it does that who think where It's
• 3:26:49
  not, it's not an alien menace. Its giant crabs. and as somebody
• 3:26:56
  who has, An Invasion of the Body Snatchers poster on my wall.
• 3:27:00
  I love that cold war satire. Where you go that allegory we go
• 3:27:07
  we're not gonna just do aliens. We're gonna do something weird
• 3:27:09
  so invading the body is not as the aliens send them pods that
• 3:27:14
  regrow people. Into these kind of these sort of
• 3:27:19
  similes of the other people and then this it's not an alien.
• 3:27:25
  Allegory for communist Russia or communist.
• 3:27:28
  China, its giant crabs, there's nothing more Doctor, Who than
• 3:27:31
  that. It's like now we're gonna go for
• 3:27:33
  the obvious Route, 1 connection. We're not gonna just have a guy
• 3:27:37
  with a dodgy action. We're going to have a giant
• 3:27:39
  crab, that's that's we're going to do.
• 3:27:41
  And so I love that about it and And then all.
• 3:27:45
  So I've got two other things, which I'm gonna talk other
• 3:27:48
  actually, I suppose, I kind of I've already covered it.
• 3:27:51
  This is very influential on the RTD era.
• 3:27:58
  Obviously, we get the macro back in gridlock because I think he's
• 3:28:02
  looking for. In that story, he's looking for.
• 3:28:06
  He wants an alien influence, that feels suitably alien, but
• 3:28:10
  that doesn't overshadow, this story that he's telling, which
• 3:28:13
  is ultimately about fake. So, it's Martha's faith.
• 3:28:17
  And the doctor, it's it, it's the people in the cars as faith
• 3:28:22
  in in religion. and so he but he needs a kind of Alien to kind of
• 3:28:29
  throw in there, that is kind of created the situation in which,
• 3:28:34
  everybody's gonna traps, and he goes for the map. and I think
• 3:28:39
  that, is telling because the macro, I think, are one of the
• 3:28:43
  few Doctor Who Monsters that aren't particularly. the very
• 3:28:51
  alien, you know, there's our be Every talk to the zombie.
• 3:28:55
  Oh yeah, there was the properly dot alien Doctor Who, but
• 3:28:58
  they're not really the talk. In English.
• 3:29:02
  The ants don't walk around like ants.
• 3:29:04
  They walk like a guy addressed in an answer.
• 3:29:08
  And but the macro or literally giant crabs and the whole thing
• 3:29:13
  of like, yeah, one of them as an RP accent.
• 3:29:15
  But that's because the plugged in a computer, that is
• 3:29:18
  presumably translating so that the crabs don't physically speak
• 3:29:24
  to anybody. It's all done through a PA
• 3:29:28
  system through technology through it.
• 3:29:30
  They're probably alien and a way that we don't always get It's
• 3:29:36
  not too villains. I think that that's really
• 3:29:38
  interesting with it. And then finally, And don't
• 3:29:43
  bubble. so, you know that is supposedly Doctor Who's first
• 3:29:48
  Kind of, you know, influencer critique.
• 3:29:51
  But let's look at actually, the macera, this is a planet.
• 3:29:56
  In 1960 Orion 66 or 67 by this point seven. 67.
• 3:30:02
  So this is a planet that for healthy happiness. it's
• 3:30:08
  essentially the planet of the well-being influences, you know,
• 3:30:13
  and it shows how fast I'll That is long before that becomes.
• 3:30:21
  Deroga for anybody on social media.
• 3:30:24
  So, I think actually, Don't bubble is Russell, T Davis,
• 3:30:30
  trying to remake the macroptera. Or the 2020s kind of social
• 3:30:36
  media age. I think this is actually.
• 3:30:39
  Still really good if I'm honest. But yeah.
• 3:30:44
  So this is going in because I think it's it is a loss classic
• 3:30:50
  and I think if we do get it back, It is going to blow
• 3:30:55
  people's minds because I think it's fabulously fabulous
• 3:30:58
  fabulous, Joe so Toby told us that he had a book called night
• 3:31:03
  of the crabs. I think you had a pamphlet from
• 3:31:04
  the NHS also for the night of the craps.
• 3:31:07
  Yeah. Should I what I went down there?
• 3:31:09
  So often they bomb. Our first night Ally show.
• 3:31:12
  I'll see in the church alive. Is it my turn?
• 3:31:15
  Yes, you're good. Okay, well, I'll be brief
• 3:31:18
  because, you know, we need to go to bed at some point tonight.
• 3:31:20
  I do love the canvas of this but I just, I love how it takes this
• 3:31:27
  genuinely creepy setting. And slaps, a smile on the
• 3:31:31
  horror. It reminds me of, you know, you
• 3:31:34
  know, those people that sort of overdo their houses with
• 3:31:37
  Christmas, they just cover it in lights and tinsel and plastic
• 3:31:41
  and you think to yourself my God who's being beaten in that
• 3:31:44
  house, it's like they're trying to smother it, you know, with
• 3:31:48
  Gordy loveliness. And there's just something you
• 3:31:51
  pick up that the house. There's something horrible gun
• 3:31:53
  on in there. This is Insidious, it's playful.
• 3:31:57
  It's even a bit traditional in places because of course, we go
• 3:32:00
  down a mine at some point, I one of my points was the sound
• 3:32:04
  effects which Toby alluded to all those weird sucking noises
• 3:32:08
  in the first episode. You feel like you're gonna be
• 3:32:12
  sucked into an assault or any minute and yeah, it's
• 3:32:15
  absolutely. Oh, that weird but I love it.
• 3:32:19
  I fucking love classic Doctor Who and the weird sound effects
• 3:32:24
  they used. I think it's all gets abandoned
• 3:32:26
  a bit somewhere in the midst of 70s because, you know, excellent
• 3:32:31
  is brilliant for us as well. Those fabulous forests, they do
• 3:32:34
  in the heart wear with monsters coming out of every leaf and
• 3:32:39
  here as well. There's just an atmosphere to
• 3:32:41
  this place regardless of the of anything that they're shooting
• 3:32:45
  and is all down to the sound effects.
• 3:32:47
  This is the one story this year that gets Polly been and Jamie,
• 3:32:52
  right? It gives them all the slice of
• 3:32:55
  the pie. They all get something fun to do
• 3:32:57
  in the story. They are fun.
• 3:32:59
  They're Sparky, they're shocking been is a Quiet disturbingly
• 3:33:05
  realistic. You know what's interesting
• 3:33:08
  about been I've forgot to mention this but been getting
• 3:33:11
  brainwashed. I think there's a really
• 3:33:14
  interesting thing being done, and I don't know if it's
• 3:33:16
  deliberate, I don't know if it's literally just The they thought
• 3:33:20
  they had maybe Ben and Polly and then they get Jamie.
• 3:33:22
  And he goes below, I'll keep it then.
• 3:33:24
  But been is in the Navy. He's used to that kind of
• 3:33:28
  regimented Lifestyle. So actually there's something
• 3:33:32
  with the interesting and kind of going well he's the one that
• 3:33:35
  gets pretty much he's the one that buys into the colony
• 3:33:38
  because he's used to that he's the easiest thing part of a
• 3:33:41
  bigger picture. You know.
• 3:33:42
  There's already sort of used to in Doctrine.
• 3:33:44
  Yeah but he's like Michael Christ's place up.
• 3:33:48
  Really, there's something quite brutal and a bit scary about how
• 3:33:53
  he plays that role and it does make you think.
• 3:33:55
  Oh, we raced this actor for the last sort of Nine Stories Polly
• 3:34:00
  gets to scream a lot unfortunately.
• 3:34:01
  And that clip of her wrestling with the crab, makes me think
• 3:34:05
  yes, this would have been great to see but there was still be
• 3:34:07
  moments where we're looking for I think fingers but Jamie gets
• 3:34:10
  one of his finest seems ever when he does the Highland.
• 3:34:13
  Fling dogs character you've ever seen, we want something gay and
• 3:34:20
  cheerful, he's wonderful. The whole sequences just great,
• 3:34:23
  I'm watching him improvise like that.
• 3:34:25
  Such a fun way. Brilliant, the other camp
• 3:34:28
  character. I like is Dear Old Barney, you
• 3:34:30
  know. Sunlight, sunlight treatments.
• 3:34:33
  Moonlight treatments sparkling effervescence.
• 3:34:36
  It just sort of vanishes, doesn't it what a shame?
• 3:34:39
  Oh, no. Just seen a bit more of him.
• 3:34:40
  He's very, very Charming. Um yeah, I mean I can't really
• 3:34:44
  have much. It's I think it's brilliant.
• 3:34:46
  I think again it's two decent things.
• 3:34:49
  Clashing in a really interesting way in a way that only Doctor
• 3:34:53
  Who can and giant crabs, Absolutely.
• 3:34:57
  And I am also going to put this through.
• 3:35:00
  So it's another four for four briefly.
• 3:35:03
  I really like the structure of this.
• 3:35:04
  I think there's something really clever about the structure of
• 3:35:06
  it. So in part one, we get the kind
• 3:35:08
  of public and private face the column.
• 3:35:10
  So we get all the kind of hidey High atmosphere with the major
• 3:35:13
  rats and all the spa treatments, you all.
• 3:35:16
  So get a more than a strong feeling of something.
• 3:35:18
  More is going on here because we make me Doc, we meet Ola.
• 3:35:22
  I know where is not your usual Holiday Camp security guard, and
• 3:35:25
  this is only episode as well, tough location filming.
• 3:35:28
  So I think episode one really sets the same very well, so too,
• 3:35:33
  So, two is almost exclusively focused on the brainwashing,
• 3:35:36
  which we didn't see at all, in episode one, and we see the
• 3:35:39
  Torch sequence. Toby, just alluded to out of me,
• 3:35:41
  Doc, and the macro attacking Ben and Polly.
• 3:35:44
  I think it's, that's really quite a dark episode and that is
• 3:35:47
  straight away. Then is stripping away the
• 3:35:49
  veneer of geology that we saw in part one, and part three,
• 3:35:53
  shifts. Again, we do the mines.
• 3:35:55
  And yes, unfortunately, is more Minds after we've had mines in
• 3:35:58
  the underwater Menace, but nevertheless, I still think this
• 3:36:01
  is doing. Lots of different things.
• 3:36:03
  We've got the character of Fisher.
• 3:36:04
  Unfortunately, kill off me, Doc, which is just very atmospheric.
• 3:36:07
  And, as I was, I've been watching the Sally snaps rather
• 3:36:10
  animation for this, and it just feels so dark and cluster
• 3:36:13
  phobic, and I think because of all the other things, you've got
• 3:36:15
  mentioned, like, the atmosphere, the sound, I think that works
• 3:36:18
  really well. But then, episode four takes all
• 3:36:20
  those strands and we sit into one coherence hole.
• 3:36:23
  So we come back to the Jolly. So we had in part one was you
• 3:36:27
  just said the highlands playing all of that.
• 3:36:29
  But then we've also got the scenes of desperation when they
• 3:36:33
  control his. Screaming, all of us to take
• 3:36:36
  control. It's really the tension is
• 3:36:38
  really building it up point. So, I think it's clever.
• 3:36:41
  The structure. Almost like, gives us three
• 3:36:43
  separate vignettes into this story and then pulls it together
• 3:36:46
  in the finale. So, I think that works
• 3:36:48
  incredibly well because it's like saying different sides of
• 3:36:51
  this colony and bit by bit. We're on Earth thing.
• 3:36:53
  What's really going on here? Second thing I wanted to point
• 3:36:57
  out is I just love, I don't know why, but I love the relationship
• 3:36:59
  between the doctors and me, Doc, I think it's just such a lovely
• 3:37:03
  relationship. So, we've seen lots of stories
• 3:37:05
  this season where the doctor's Cycles up to the Barbie to try
• 3:37:08
  and find out what's going on. So like he does with that off.
• 3:37:11
  It's almost like he's befriending and but he's not.
• 3:37:13
  He wants to know what's going on, but here with me, Doc, it
• 3:37:16
  feels. It feels very Seventh, Doctor.
• 3:37:17
  Actually that he detect someone in trouble.
• 3:37:20
  He owns straight in on them and he wants to help them.
• 3:37:22
  Not only to help them personally, so he can appoint
• 3:37:25
  himself with what's going on. Obviously him.
• 3:37:28
  And the child is crew, are kind of responsible for me, docs
• 3:37:31
  arrested the beginning, but obviously that's completely
• 3:37:33
  unwittingly. But then straight away, the
• 3:37:35
  doctor tries to put that right by trying to go to his cell and
• 3:37:39
  set him free. The doctor to them, follows him
• 3:37:41
  to the building site, to find out what me Doc seen.
• 3:37:44
  And then again, he tries to help him to escape and the guards
• 3:37:47
  turn up. A medoc respects us, the other
• 3:37:49
  side of really like. So we've got this lovely
• 3:37:51
  relationship between the two because medoc completely
• 3:37:54
  understand what the doctors has been doing from and you repays
• 3:37:57
  him twice. First of all, when they're
• 3:37:58
  giving evidence to the pilots and he said, what the building
• 3:38:01
  site, the doctors was encouraging me to give him me up
• 3:38:03
  myself up, which he wasn't, but the meddocs covering for him and
• 3:38:06
  then again in part three, when he volunteers the doctor to be
• 3:38:09
  the supervisor so he can stay safe whilst the others.
• 3:38:12
  Go into the poison gas mines. As that real shame, I think that
• 3:38:16
  in part three, then me Doc dies because I just think that
• 3:38:19
  relationship between those two men works.
• 3:38:21
  Just really well, I just feels different as well.
• 3:38:23
  And then thirdly with already touched, I hope you touched on
• 3:38:27
  Peter Jeffrey. Love Peter Jeffrey so it's great
• 3:38:30
  to see him here. Yeah, maybe he could have, you
• 3:38:33
  know, he could have had a bigger all made big but I still think
• 3:38:35
  what he does is particularly in that episode four.
• 3:38:38
  He does that Journey from someone.
• 3:38:39
  Who's in command? Someone who's questioning what's
• 3:38:42
  going on? Sometimes that's quite
• 3:38:44
  difficult, Journey. For some access to do because
• 3:38:46
  it's quite a big stretch. Particularly in one episode to
• 3:38:49
  go on. That kind of emotional journey.
• 3:38:51
  I think Peter Jeffrey does it really?
• 3:38:53
  Really well. And what a beautiful voice?
• 3:38:55
  So, yeah, absolutely. This is going through, right?
• 3:38:58
  We're into our last two stories. Mark, you have got moon base or
• 3:39:03
  power of the Daleks Alex saw Cybermen Well I'm going to play
• 3:39:08
  this tactically. I think, because I want my vote
• 3:39:11
  to count on one of the stories. So I'm going to pick power of
• 3:39:16
  the Daleks because I think this is my favorite of the season.
• 3:39:24
  And I think everybody's broadly in agreement and power of the
• 3:39:27
  Galaxy is good. So if I just say this now, it's
• 3:39:30
  gonna still go through and it doesn't matter.
• 3:39:32
  So, that's you. Anything on this?
• 3:39:34
  Well, easy. All right.
• 3:39:40
  When I think this is brilliant, I think this is better than evil
• 3:39:43
  of Alex as well. Um, and I think, first off,
• 3:39:49
  David Whitaker is is the main selling point here.
• 3:39:52
  I think he guarantees the longevity of Doctor Who by
• 3:39:59
  giving us a story that It's true in the ability, a chance to. sit
• 3:40:07
  like, sell himself in your doctor, but also kind of take a
• 3:40:13
  bit of a backseat because at least there's dollars, So, at
• 3:40:17
  least if people aren't initially overall, it's by Patra.
• 3:40:21
  And as the replacement for William Hartnell, at least
• 3:40:25
  they've got a really fucking down like story. and what
• 3:40:29
  Whitaker does with the dialects in this is that they're no
• 3:40:32
  longer These kind of conquering, this, conquering Force.
• 3:40:38
  They're Insidious Invaders, you know, they're in a spaceship
• 3:40:42
  that's kind of find. On the planet and they they're
• 3:40:47
  Sly, they're calculating the, they know how to work a
• 3:40:53
  situation and that's something we've not really seen before at
• 3:40:56
  this point in Doctor, Who history.
• 3:40:58
  And and actually, this is kind of paradise like influences a
• 3:41:03
  lot of what we then see. In both classic and you talk to
• 3:41:07
  it's it's the Daleks building alliances with people.
• 3:41:10
  It's the Daleks offering things to people not enough by Mark.
• 3:41:14
  I don't think we see enough of that, sort of level and
• 3:41:16
  intelligence that you see in power of, no, we don't Asian
• 3:41:19
  lady. But not enough.
• 3:41:21
  Yeah. No we don't but I think the
• 3:41:23
  general Thesis of it, which is the the dollars can kind of like
• 3:41:27
  all for things to people, or the people will be somehow drawn to
• 3:41:31
  the Dallas that that starts here and then we get it together.
• 3:41:35
  But then we get it in. Well, we get it in remembrance,
• 3:41:39
  you know, it, you know, a group of dialects finds it far.
• 3:41:43
  Right? Fucking fascist, guys.
• 3:41:45
  I got oh, well, there are people.
• 3:41:47
  They'll they'll help us get the handful of them.
• 3:41:50
  So you know, fabulous thing in my music.
• 3:41:54
  Um, oh dear, The Boy, The Boy Named Mercedes building in it
• 3:41:59
  all starts. It all starts with power.
• 3:42:02
  And so I think that's really good.
• 3:42:04
  I think what what it does is he breaks new ground with the
• 3:42:08
  dialects and kind of gives us the ability to tell you don't
• 3:42:12
  like stories that aren't just like, oh my god, I've landed on
• 3:42:15
  the planet of the Daleks or oh my God, the dogs have got some
• 3:42:18
  terrible weapon. They're going to use to impress
• 3:42:21
  to her stories out there, places as well.
• 3:42:23
  Mark, Absolutely do. But I think also you can do too
• 3:42:27
  many of those. So this gives you a kind of
• 3:42:29
  where and this second one is the the world of this bills.
• 3:42:34
  I absolutely love. This story. again, if we're
• 3:42:41
  talking about personal links, my first I first was drawn to the
• 3:42:45
  dots when my friend, and I my friendly when I got in stock to
• 3:42:49
  who I think so I I watched the time ever in 192 96 the TV movie
• 3:42:55
  comes out and that's when I'm a fan because it's like oh that's
• 3:42:59
  a new thing now. Right.
• 3:43:01
  And then there's gonna be a whole Pawn again Series, right?
• 3:43:03
  And then I can, I can watch that every week and then they never
• 3:43:06
  happens. And but my friend Lee or and I,
• 3:43:09
  we stand, we stand firm. And say, well, it doesn't
• 3:43:13
  matter. If it doesn't come back, we can
• 3:43:15
  watch all the old stuff and we just discovered, there's such a
• 3:43:18
  thing as missing episode. So he gets all the scripts for
• 3:43:23
  power of the Daleks off the internet.
• 3:43:26
  Princeton off for me and like I'm reading through them and I'm
• 3:43:30
  like, this is amazing. The Daleks turn up because he's
• 3:43:33
  a few dollars stories about that point.
• 3:43:36
  The dollars on this planet and they're they called their win
• 3:43:39
  their society. And that's so that Society goes
• 3:43:45
  Because they're all ready, loggerheads.
• 3:43:47
  You've got the start class between the two start power
• 3:43:51
  structures. And the rebels and establishment
• 3:43:56
  as it were and they get this dialect technology and it's
• 3:44:00
  about. And the story is really about
• 3:44:03
  What that Society does with that dialect technology?
• 3:44:07
  And the doctors can just stuck in the middle trying to trying
• 3:44:11
  to make sure that not everybody kills each other and then
• 3:44:13
  ultimately kind of fails because everybody fucking dies at the
• 3:44:17
  end, like basically fuck themselves with darling
• 3:44:20
  technology. Yeah, it's it's Brutal.
• 3:44:23
  It's brutal. But it's really compelling, as a
• 3:44:26
  kind of political thriller with dollars, you know.
• 3:44:30
  But finally, and I think this and I don't know, I don't think
• 3:44:36
  well it might be deliberate because wrote the novelization
• 3:44:39
  of the first Dalek cereal, but the character of Leicester City
• 3:44:45
  in, if we're talking about the first, the first story for a new
• 3:44:49
  doctor and this idea of showing how far the doctors come, and
• 3:44:54
  then kind of like, who this new Docs.
• 3:44:58
  I think the character of lesson is fundamental in establishing
• 3:45:02
  who the second doctor is. So, Robert.
• 3:45:07
  James is Utterly brilliant as a science is not, he's not so
• 3:45:13
  first, he's just this scientist. She was a blow up the world's
• 3:45:16
  for the sake of it. Robert James plays lashes.
• 3:45:19
  And as a scientist, who's fascinated by this new
• 3:45:23
  technology, this new life form that he wants to understand more
• 3:45:26
  about and he has the doctor in his ear going.
• 3:45:30
  Don't. Do that.
• 3:45:33
  You're, you're all you're going to do is bring pain and
• 3:45:36
  destruction on yourself. but it's not in the way that we get
• 3:45:41
  a lot and Doctor Who wear It's the doctors its kind of
• 3:45:45
  spokesperson, it's kind of like Superior forces.
• 3:45:48
  All I know best If you look at it, just if we look at it, just
• 3:45:52
  in terms of the dollar stores, let's just says, is the first
• 3:45:56
  doctor in the dollars? What is the first doctor do in
• 3:46:00
  in that first Alex story? He?
• 3:46:04
  Sees this sort of futuristic city, he wants to know more and
• 3:46:09
  he puts everybody at rest to satisfy that Curiosity.
• 3:46:13
  So what you have three years later is trout and seeing lesson
• 3:46:20
  as this kind of version of himself and good May seriously,
• 3:46:24
  you don't want to do this, take it from somebody who knows you
• 3:46:28
  don't want to do this and he get and he has to watch this whole
• 3:46:32
  thing kind of player again. I think that is a genius better
• 3:46:36
  writing by. By David Whittaker, who would
• 3:46:39
  have been there absolutely tinkering?
• 3:46:41
  Well, that's probably right. And most of it in the day and he
• 3:46:44
  wrote the not, like I said, he wrote the novelization, he did
• 3:46:47
  some on credit and work on the film version of it.
• 3:46:49
  He knows that First Alert story inside out, And I think he
• 3:46:55
  brings a lot of the first doctor to lessen.
• 3:46:57
  And so you then have the second doctor and this kind of first
• 3:47:01
  off. So, analog kind of clashing,
• 3:47:04
  it's really good, it's really smart.
• 3:47:07
  And that's why the four of us are still here.
• 3:47:10
  Five hours in talking about doctor, Fantastic.
• 3:47:14
  Let us go to the comments. Nathan bottomley says this might
• 3:47:18
  be the best story of the classic series.
• 3:47:20
  Are you ready? Tremendous, and the Daleks are
• 3:47:23
  devious bastards. James, Robert James gives, one
• 3:47:26
  of the best 60s, guest, hairstyles, and I love all the
• 3:47:29
  characters. Raise a Gregory, says many
• 3:47:31
  stories, lay claim to most important ever, but this one may
• 3:47:34
  actually be that Spooner and Whittaker.
• 3:47:36
  Give a master class and how to introduce a new doctor.
• 3:47:38
  Write the dialects and plot at 6 partner with power struggles.
• 3:47:42
  The Plenty building to an amazing Crescendo Jason
• 3:47:45
  Thompson, a standout changing the doctor's face and
• 3:47:48
  personality must have seen nothing short of insanity.
• 3:47:51
  And yet, this is laid the foundation.
• 3:47:52
  That leads us here. Still discussing it nearly 60
• 3:47:55
  years later, a waiting, a new season and it's fucking great as
• 3:48:00
  well. James full of complex character
• 3:48:02
  Dynamics perfectly paced across six episodes.
• 3:48:05
  Absolutely selling the Daleks as a lucky villain threat and
• 3:48:09
  giving us a brilliant new doctor with a frisson of them certainly
• 3:48:12
  over with that. We trust him all More
• 3:48:14
  miraculous. When you compare it to the
• 3:48:15
  half-assed, Fair, the jury Davis was mostly letting throw, what a
• 3:48:20
  bitch James Harden Bennett says, Daleks, as ruthless cunning
• 3:48:23
  manipulative and downright terrifying.
• 3:48:26
  Villains, humans as gullible two caught in their own Petty,
• 3:48:30
  squabbles to see what's going on.
• 3:48:31
  I want to revisit this world and see more of this Society.
• 3:48:34
  Great Doctor Who Says, really enjoyable.
• 3:48:37
  One specific moment that stands out when the doctors told he
• 3:48:40
  saved the day and he said, oh, did I try to bring this fresh
• 3:48:43
  energy undressed Luke since Jenkins, you know what the
• 3:48:47
  fence. I don't like, this isn't
• 3:48:49
  designed to be binged, but that power isn't meant to be watched
• 3:48:52
  in animated form, but it's amazing.
• 3:48:54
  Each episode is a new level of power, which beards and bills.
• 3:48:58
  One of the greatest of all time. Mark drix is probably the most
• 3:49:01
  noteworthy of the period and not just for the obvious reason.
• 3:49:04
  It's the most mature and fully formed Story of the Year.
• 3:49:07
  Feels like they're really might be something at stake and much
• 3:49:10
  less of a caper. John Arnold is set up a Sci-Fi
• 3:49:13
  analog of Nazis, the Daleks here are Insidious coming and exploit
• 3:49:18
  human weakness relentlessly exactly the right thyroid to
• 3:49:21
  establish a new doctor. Jim Allenby says Whittaker, just
• 3:49:24
  gets the Daleks. Troutman's first stories, one of
• 3:49:26
  his best, his Doctrine still cooking but he's mesmerizing to
• 3:49:30
  watch. The story is tense solidly
• 3:49:32
  plotted and has some great moments.
• 3:49:33
  Why do human beings kill human? Being that lie?
• 3:49:38
  Daniel know it says great but Treads water a bit in episode 4
• 3:49:42
  and 5 before. All the Carnage in six trout is
• 3:49:45
  wonderful. Testing to see what works and
• 3:49:47
  what doesn't will some crazy work well with him and the car.
• 3:49:50
  So, uniformly strong, I really want to see this one plexigo
• 3:49:55
  cookies are truly stunning fresh in the native and so much more
• 3:49:58
  than a standard. Dialect story, Jack Koya.
• 3:50:00
  I really like which is writing and it makes sense to have a
• 3:50:03
  right from his caliber kicking off the new era.
• 3:50:05
  This early trout on seems almost a separate from the cosmic hobo
• 3:50:09
  as hard. Or does the second doctor is a
• 3:50:12
  more Second doctor is a more deliberate inversion of the
• 3:50:16
  first, but maintaining his key eye for detail, picking up Clues
• 3:50:19
  and getting ahead of things. Whilst mice is the best debut
• 3:50:22
  story of any doctor. The Daleks back to the Sinister.
• 3:50:25
  Best, a great plot and some memorable characters.
• 3:50:27
  Make this something special highlight is less distance,
• 3:50:30
  descendants, and Madness. Fantastic fall down says a work
• 3:50:34
  of Genius. Absolutely dripping with
• 3:50:36
  atmosphere. I'm finally Kieran, says nice to
• 3:50:38
  see the Daleks being devious in a steady build of a story as the
• 3:50:41
  first regeneration story. It's interesting viewing, but
• 3:50:45
  I'm not sure on the doctors characterization.
• 3:50:48
  Toby power of the darling. Well, it's funny, isn't it
• 3:50:53
  because it's It's a colony in it, it's just Rebels versus
• 3:50:57
  colonists and, you know, that's not very exciting.
• 3:51:00
  Is it all the time? And it's and it's the first, you
• 3:51:04
  know, it's everyone's gonna think it's a classic because
• 3:51:06
  it's the first of a new doctor so it's a landmark story.
• 3:51:09
  So, often people do that with Landmark stories, don't they go?
• 3:51:12
  Oh yeah. Well it's it's really, you know,
• 3:51:14
  it. Okay.
• 3:51:15
  People years to realize that the 10th planet was actually fairly
• 3:51:18
  run of the mill and wasn't amazing, just because it's the
• 3:51:21
  first regeneration, actually quite like the 10th Planet.
• 3:51:23
  But you know, when I was growing up, it was always in the top
• 3:51:25
  three hearts and all of this, you know, it's not.
• 3:51:28
  You just according it that and season finale is now always win
• 3:51:32
  the dwm poll because they've got the most explosions in and we
• 3:51:34
  seem to think that's. Yeah, well, yeah, okay.
• 3:51:37
  Twin was a banger, you know, but And and I and I always think.
• 3:51:48
  And I think it's just because everyone's dressed in those sort
• 3:51:50
  of slightly boring blue costume. I was thinking when I go into
• 3:51:53
  power of the Daleks she pleased straightforward, it's not all
• 3:51:58
  that. It's just because it's transfer
• 3:51:59
  story that we're sad that it's missing and then you watch it
• 3:52:02
  and you go. Why is this so good?
• 3:52:05
  It's it's evil. Is a sum of its parts in a way
• 3:52:12
  in the it's got lots of headlines things.
• 3:52:15
  The period costume, the big name guest star, the emperor, Dalek
• 3:52:19
  the Civil War. The three different time
• 3:52:21
  periods, that makes you go. Wow, this is something
• 3:52:23
  extraordinary. Lots of different ingredients.
• 3:52:25
  You don't have that with power, it's all in the same place, it's
• 3:52:29
  all got. None of the characters are
• 3:52:30
  particularly, but less than slightly separately, but the
• 3:52:34
  colony itself is made up a fairly straightforward.
• 3:52:36
  Nobody's chewing the scenery the actors.
• 3:52:38
  All do a good job but nobody's getting a chance to grandstand
• 3:52:41
  or anything like that and yet every body has Quiet Moments
• 3:52:47
  that just make the it's a mature piece of work.
• 3:52:49
  It's what it is. And so where is evil is a sort
• 3:52:52
  of some of its A rather sort of gourdy Parts if you like Power
• 3:52:58
  is more than the sum of its rather on the surface
• 3:53:03
  straightforward in ingredients. So I love the little things like
• 3:53:07
  hensel's, not in one episode because he's got to do something
• 3:53:10
  on the outer reaches of the color.
• 3:53:12
  If feels like there's a sort of working structure, you know,
• 3:53:14
  it's just those little bits of realism, an oddly, the last
• 3:53:17
  person you'd you'd expect to come in and sort of bring
• 3:53:20
  subtlety or maturity or just a smooth out and streamline.
• 3:53:26
  A David Whittaker. Script is dead a Spooner, you
• 3:53:29
  might get into add an injection of fun or whatever, but it see.
• 3:53:33
  But but weirdly it's, it's one of those strange moments of
• 3:53:36
  alchemy where the the combination of these two
• 3:53:38
  doctors. First two script editors not
• 3:53:41
  necessarily doing what you'd have them think that they would
• 3:53:44
  do it that make this work. It's that the headline you
• 3:53:48
  should be Patrick but, but weirdly and I'm I always I
• 3:53:53
  always think I They're overlooked major moments in
• 3:53:56
  doctors history because they'd kind of already happened before
• 3:53:59
  I was born. So it's Patrick troutman's first
• 3:54:01
  story. But then if you actually watch
• 3:54:03
  it, what they do, and decide to make him this weird sort of
• 3:54:07
  harlequin who speaks in the third person and is actually
• 3:54:10
  really annoying. And and you know, you, we know
• 3:54:14
  for a fact that the audience were a bit discombobulated by
• 3:54:17
  this but history tells us it was absolutely the right way to go
• 3:54:21
  because if you just had somebody doing a heart and it would have
• 3:54:23
  died a death, so track and comes and and you know, it's not an
• 3:54:27
  easy process. But he's such a good actor that
• 3:54:30
  you, you sort of you, you sort of forgive a good actor for
• 3:54:33
  going in a direction that they then might not go again because
• 3:54:36
  you go, well, you're doing this because you're feeling your way
• 3:54:39
  through your bold enough and interesting and he's incapable
• 3:54:42
  of a bad performance I would say say Trenton but it is
• 3:54:45
  interesting watching watching these first sort of faltering
• 3:54:49
  steps where he's he's sort of throwing everything at it.
• 3:54:54
  But even so this early on he gets some amazing moments like
• 3:54:58
  you know, doesn't he have? Oh yeah, I want them.
• 3:55:04
  Broken down on broken up or melted down up or down.
• 3:55:07
  I don't care which I that on paper, I remember reading the
• 3:55:11
  the ending to episode two and it says the Daleks as I am your
• 3:55:14
  servant. I was like that doesn't sound
• 3:55:15
  like a very good Cliffhanger and then you're in it and it's
• 3:55:17
  going, I am your servant and he's yelling.
• 3:55:19
  No, they kill people. And I think that he's, one of
• 3:55:23
  the greatest Doctor Who Cliffhangers of all time.
• 3:55:26
  Because it's the doctor as the loan and we know because we know
• 3:55:30
  what the Daleks are and the beauty of this.
• 3:55:33
  The clever thing of this is that, so now so often doctors
• 3:55:37
  who is I, oh, it's a big event because it's a dark story and
• 3:55:39
  everyone goes up. Okay, now it's the Daleks here.
• 3:55:41
  These people are going what is just a thing that carries trays
• 3:55:44
  and he's going no, no, this is really bad and nobody believes
• 3:55:48
  him. And why would anybody believe
• 3:55:49
  this shambling clown. So it's a bit like being stuck
• 3:55:52
  behind glass. Watching a murderer.
• 3:55:54
  Go. Behind somebody and you're
• 3:55:55
  going, wow. And they they don't know, you
• 3:55:58
  know, has there ever been another Doctor?
• 3:56:00
  Who story with this much inbuilt suspense in the premise alone?
• 3:56:04
  I don't think there is. It is so suspenseful and, and
• 3:56:07
  the reusing of Tristram care is that music, doesn't matter one
• 3:56:11
  job because it is that creeping throbbing, thudding mysterious.
• 3:56:15
  It's the ideal scorer for it. So, it's a why not?
• 3:56:17
  Why not reuse it. But, but yeah, from something
• 3:56:21
  that's familiar from previous dialogue Stories.
• 3:56:24
  The guy will that the darling that first dial it has the I am
• 3:56:29
  your servant. The fact that it is Sly, this is
• 3:56:32
  these are dialects not as sort of, you know, hordes of
• 3:56:35
  murderous killing machines. That we've seen them be before
• 3:56:38
  this is. And that whole thing of, you
• 3:56:41
  know, one darling, it could destroy all, you know, you can
• 3:56:44
  see why when they brought the dialect, they thought, well,
• 3:56:46
  let's bring them back with one and show because we've seen,
• 3:56:49
  because since the Dalek started in Doctor Who we've seen loads
• 3:56:52
  of other aliens, so, so, Are special about these guys.
• 3:56:55
  It's because what one and even one without a gun has the
• 3:57:00
  wherewithal to sew the seeds for the colonies destruction.
• 3:57:03
  So it's not just that they're merciless Killers because take
• 3:57:07
  that away from them and they've got other weapons in their
• 3:57:09
  arsenal of a more cerebral kind. And I think that is such a
• 3:57:12
  beautiful and clever twist. So what a bold way of taking the
• 3:57:19
  basic ingredients of Dr. So it's reestablishing.
• 3:57:22
  The character, it's re-establishing, the Daleks,
• 3:57:24
  it's doing different things with both but they're both true to
• 3:57:27
  the show as we understand it now and they're consistent with what
• 3:57:31
  is gone before in terms of what the show sort of aspires to do
• 3:57:35
  in a spiers to be and stead of having bold Strokes.
• 3:57:39
  You know, breaking is not a scenery chewing bad guy but he's
• 3:57:43
  a total bastard and I loved it at the end when he sort of
• 3:57:46
  losing his power and he keeps going.
• 3:57:47
  But I'm the governor and then it's little things.
• 3:57:50
  Like valmar has a limp and And generally calls in vowel because
• 3:57:57
  you do shorten people's names in real life that you don't tend to
• 3:58:00
  in sci-fi. And I love that generally, I
• 3:58:02
  think is a brilliant character because even at the end, you,
• 3:58:05
  and when when braking says, I'm gonna kill all your mates and
• 3:58:08
  she goes. Okay, and then, valmar over here
• 3:58:11
  is there. And he says, are you gonna
• 3:58:12
  press? And she said, no, I wasn't.
• 3:58:14
  And even when she's dies, you go.
• 3:58:15
  I still don't know, side. She was on but beautiful, she
• 3:58:19
  doesn't play it as a lip curling villain.
• 3:58:21
  She, you know, she she plays it very, very, very, very, very
• 3:58:24
  straight. And it just makes it more
• 3:58:26
  realistic and it just makes it a sort of grown-up piece of what I
• 3:58:31
  can't even just a few moments. So he uses a sexuality.
• 3:58:34
  Very subtly. Yeah.
• 3:58:36
  Yeah. She's that so much more
• 3:58:38
  interesting. She is a fabulous fabulous
• 3:58:41
  character and the fact that you know lesson isn't you know, the
• 3:58:45
  all-consuming. Mad blind crazy scientist who's
• 3:58:49
  in it for his owner you know she has to hide from him.
• 3:58:51
  That resno is dead. You know another Doctor Who
• 3:58:54
  Scientists would go, what price one life in the pursuit of
• 3:58:57
  science, where she knows she has to say.
• 3:58:59
  Oh no, he's in hospital. Because otherwise, his
• 3:59:01
  conscience would bother him and that would maybe stop him from
• 3:59:04
  doing what he's doing. So it's just as little things
• 3:59:06
  that are slightly that when you're looking at it you go.
• 3:59:09
  Well doctor who normally does this.
• 3:59:11
  Ah, but it doesn't do this quite so maturely, it doesn't do this
• 3:59:15
  quite so thoughtfully and it's got lots of lovely.
• 3:59:19
  But, you know, Hensel could be like Miss say, but played by the
• 3:59:22
  same actor. Could be Mr. Chin could be a
• 3:59:25
  puffed up, idiot. He is out maneuvered.
• 3:59:28
  And he is a bit of a prick, but he's not played as a pompous
• 3:59:32
  buffoon. In that sense.
• 3:59:33
  You, you believe in him as a person.
• 3:59:36
  Uh, and, and I think so, I think all of that interplay Quinn, I'm
• 3:59:40
  not sure. I'm, I can say much about the
• 3:59:44
  character of Quinn, but he's not Superfluous, and he actually
• 3:59:47
  plays an important role and Nicholas Autry is very good.
• 3:59:49
  But again, it's not because he has any obvious Arch rather
• 3:59:52
  Larger than Life Doctor Who characteristics about him.
• 3:59:55
  He's just all part of the clever workings of of this piece.
• 3:59:58
  That is just so very well started together.
• 4:00:01
  And then episode six is a fucking bloodbath and all, it's
• 4:00:06
  a bloodbath and Doctor Who when it's machine guns, it just seems
• 4:00:10
  somehow much worse than laser beams.
• 4:00:13
  And that final back battle, there's a baby at one point and
• 4:00:22
  and I was hyper references and the extractor with the baby is
• 4:00:30
  is Tony rural who went on to have an absolutely fantastic
• 4:00:33
  career and But that sounds. And again, there's a little bit
• 4:00:40
  of it because it sees before, and because we're not quite
• 4:00:42
  sure. And because the trout and doctor
• 4:00:44
  is a curious, when he sort of when the doctor goes.
• 4:00:47
  Yeah, we've got we, we need something to hold up this mask.
• 4:00:51
  So so get the guards, you just go and send the guards to get in
• 4:00:54
  the way and they'll all get massacred, which will buy us
• 4:00:57
  some time you should go. Well, I better pretend that
• 4:00:59
  didn't happen because that makes that's, that's slightly dodgy
• 4:01:02
  and but, but that final Massacre and then of course, you have the
• 4:01:06
  bit after it in the quiet of battle at the afternoon, where
• 4:01:10
  the Daleks I sort of, you know, plays across everybody and then
• 4:01:13
  you see Jan Lee is dead. And it's just, it sounds
• 4:01:17
  Absolutely extraordinary though, the worry.
• 4:01:20
  And I don't worry about this with evil so much because I
• 4:01:22
  think that Martinez is is one of the A-list talk to directors,
• 4:01:26
  Christopher, Barry? I think is very good Doctor.
• 4:01:27
  Who director However, the we have a few clips of the every
• 4:01:34
  single clip that seems to emerge of power of the Daleks as a
• 4:01:37
  Dalek bumping into the camera or the cutout Dalek.
• 4:01:39
  So part of you guys, oh, is is my imagination creating
• 4:01:43
  something greater than perhaps it might be.
• 4:01:46
  And, and it is all set in one place.
• 4:01:49
  And it is a sort of colony and all that sort of thing.
• 4:01:51
  But it just feels to me like, occasionally, a doctor, whose
• 4:01:56
  story does a lot of the things that Doctor Who stories normally
• 4:01:59
  do but gets every single one of them, right?
• 4:02:01
  And adds to it. A twister lemon here and there
• 4:02:05
  that just gives it a bit of a Zing.
• 4:02:06
  That makes it something special indeed.
• 4:02:09
  So, when I think of power and evil, I think of evil and sort
• 4:02:12
  of go, but that's seems Grand and it's got the historical
• 4:02:14
  setting and it's got the big Dalek climax.
• 4:02:16
  When I think of power, I go, oh, it's just all set in one place
• 4:02:19
  where in blue, but then when I think about power more, I got
• 4:02:23
  all, but it does this and it is a and I've talked about the
• 4:02:26
  Cliffhanger to episode 2. What about the one is it to
• 4:02:28
  episode? I'm not going to say episode the
• 4:02:32
  episode where Leicester and sees the Dalek production line which
• 4:02:35
  is a classic moment but the one before that where the Daleks are
• 4:02:40
  getting a bit carried away but it just focuses on him and a
• 4:02:43
  small moment of Doubt crosses. Well, have our power listen when
• 4:02:48
  we when we talk about Cliffhangers that are unusual
• 4:02:50
  but one where the guy that has been the driving force behind
• 4:02:55
  this essentially goes, oh fuck. Have I got this wrong, is a, is
• 4:03:00
  a wonderful thing to give a cliffhanger to and Robert.
• 4:03:03
  James is absolutely terrific. But I think all of the cast are
• 4:03:06
  good. I think everyone in this story
• 4:03:08
  is, is really, really good. And yeah, it may be a bit rough
• 4:03:15
  and the edges. If, if we saw bits of it, but I
• 4:03:18
  also think if we got it back, I think we'd go.
• 4:03:21
  Oh wow, no, this is, this is really, really good.
• 4:03:26
  So I will definitely be keeping power of The Daleks and I really
• 4:03:31
  wish the BBC had. It's Toby just back you up.
• 4:03:36
  On my, you saying the audience, struggle to come to terms with
• 4:03:39
  trout and start with. So, the first three episodes of
• 4:03:42
  our are the lowest AIS of the, this whole run.
• 4:03:45
  So his first episode AI 43, right?
• 4:03:49
  It's just an M45 and 44 for episode 3, really, in the
• 4:03:54
  doldrums, we're up in the High fifth.
• 4:03:55
  All mid to high 50s by the end of the season, but yeah, 43.
• 4:03:59
  For his opening episode is not a great place to be.
• 4:04:04
  Well, they say you can't trust AI.
• 4:04:06
  Yeah. But the numbers were on the app
• 4:04:10
  from the start. Yeah.
• 4:04:12
  Joe, however, yes, well, I love, it's been saved and mostly sort
• 4:04:17
  of chose characters and moments of psychology in this story
• 4:04:19
  because we get an explicit look at some of these characters in a
• 4:04:23
  way that I'm just not seeing in Doctor Who are really love, but
• 4:04:26
  a lot of it's been. So I thought Bashford quickly
• 4:04:28
  Jan Lee, just being a fabulous political player, but being able
• 4:04:33
  to use the fact that she's a woman as well.
• 4:04:34
  I just love that, I love that. I think the actress is great and
• 4:04:38
  she's one of the most unsung female.
• 4:04:40
  She is a villain but yeah. She is, yeah, she got people
• 4:04:47
  killed. All right.
• 4:04:48
  She's a villain Leicester son. One of the few characters that
• 4:04:51
  are convincingly has a complete nervous breakdown and it's acted
• 4:04:56
  to Perfection and the moment where his mind completely snaps.
• 4:05:00
  And he goes, I am your servant is so scary.
• 4:05:05
  Like he has been confronted with some of, he just cannot
• 4:05:10
  comprehend and his mind breaks and it is terrifying.
• 4:05:14
  It's as terrifying as that darling Massacre, I think, but
• 4:05:18
  my favorite moment of psychology and all of this is the bit you
• 4:05:22
  alluded who were breaking sitting in his office barking
• 4:05:25
  out orders impotently coming to the conclusion.
• 4:05:30
  That despite the fact he's a massive fucking bully.
• 4:05:32
  He's been out bullied by the Daleks and they're coming for
• 4:05:36
  him and he still tries to maintain control.
• 4:05:39
  I mean that bit where the governor comes back and he's
• 4:05:41
  sitting in his chair. Saw a leaning back, you can
• 4:05:44
  sleep better at A grand old time playing that same, he's a great
• 4:05:47
  character Brave and he's definitely one to watch a couple
• 4:05:51
  of things. I think this was better than any
• 4:05:52
  other Doctor Who story. I think it the momentum, the
• 4:05:56
  pacing of this I don't think there's a better doctor, whose
• 4:06:00
  story that starts, slow and builds, and builds and builds.
• 4:06:03
  And the other thing this gets absolutely bang on.
• 4:06:05
  And so, few doctor whose stories get this, right?
• 4:06:08
  Is the climax. The last episode very often.
• 4:06:11
  The last episode's, a bit of a damp squid.
• 4:06:12
  We found that a lot, Ron has gone very quickly.
• 4:06:15
  Oh, I washed this today, I mean it is so scary watching those
• 4:06:20
  dollies going around just indiscriminately murdering women
• 4:06:24
  children. Anybody they come into contact
• 4:06:26
  with and all the political games are still going on all around
• 4:06:29
  there. It's just riveting television.
• 4:06:31
  This could be a Netflix leave TV show on now.
• 4:06:35
  That people would binge watch the entire season's work, you
• 4:06:39
  know, if you did this near future, this story or better
• 4:06:43
  effects better Direction, obviously, but just hold this
• 4:06:46
  story in a contemporary way. It will be as gripping.
• 4:06:50
  I think this is simply one of the best Doctor Who stories
• 4:06:53
  ever? It's born from desperation.
• 4:06:55
  Its carved by a mile star. I think the Direction might have
• 4:06:59
  been pretty good, actually, because there's some parts of
• 4:07:01
  the, the clips that we can see that.
• 4:07:04
  I really like, I love how he shoots From Below in that
• 4:07:07
  Cliffhanger. Oh, it's going around.
• 4:07:08
  He does know how to make them scary and wasn't a lot of sick.
• 4:07:13
  Done on film. Did I miss read that?
• 4:07:15
  No, not six is done on film. Yes, I think six would have
• 4:07:19
  looked amazing as well. Yeah, I mean, yeah.
• 4:07:21
  Yeah, I went back on it. I think it's Peerless this.
• 4:07:24
  There's not a second. I don't love the second.
• 4:07:27
  The doctor walks out at the TARDIS.
• 4:07:29
  That he stumbles on a dead body and there's your mystery that
• 4:07:34
  kicks you into the entire story. And I like it just hits the
• 4:07:37
  ground running and it never stops.
• 4:07:38
  Actually. No, it does it.
• 4:07:40
  Sprints and Sprints and Sprints to you fucking exhausted by
• 4:07:42
  episode 6. It's brilliant.
• 4:07:44
  Yes, put it through its perfect. Power of the darkness.
• 4:07:49
  It's Whitaker and the Daleks again and they are characters.
• 4:07:58
  Yeah, exactly. I've already said that Jerry
• 4:08:01
  Davidson necessarily my perfect scripture.
• 4:08:04
  That's a because I think he is a lot more about kind of boys own
• 4:08:07
  adventure. But this is just such a
• 4:08:10
  sophisticated script and it's such a tree to get it in the
• 4:08:14
  middle of his run. I mean, think about it, four
• 4:08:16
  weeks ago, we have the Smugglers four weeks time.
• 4:08:18
  We're going to get the underwater Menace.
• 4:08:20
  Now whether we like them or not, you can't say that they've got
• 4:08:23
  particular layers or that Think this is just such a remarkably
• 4:08:28
  sophisticated script and it's, it's the antithesis.
• 4:08:31
  I think to evil, which is a little bit bloated and all over
• 4:08:35
  the place, whereas this is so tight is one location but it
• 4:08:40
  absolutely milks. Everything from that one
• 4:08:42
  location. I also, I know I talk a lot in
• 4:08:45
  The Moffat Seasons about parallels and mirroring.
• 4:08:47
  Yeah, all of that here. So you've got a colony of humans
• 4:08:51
  here where pretty much I think every character is either being
• 4:08:54
  rebellious or duplicitous or stabbing or out for what they
• 4:08:58
  can get for their for themselves.
• 4:08:59
  And that's parallel. So starkly against the Daleks
• 4:09:03
  who are working as one unit without any sort of deviation.
• 4:09:06
  In contrast, the dull in contrast to humans the dialects,
• 4:09:11
  almost look had memorable in their commitment to a shared
• 4:09:13
  value. It's just a shame that they're
• 4:09:15
  shared value is as Polly Potter. A kind of hatred for anything
• 4:09:18
  unlike themselves but just make that contrast between the
• 4:09:22
  uniform thinking of the darling and their togetherness and they
• 4:09:26
  deviousness and the humans who are just so Patty and squabbling
• 4:09:30
  and just quite sorted in comparison.
• 4:09:33
  I absolutely love the parallels between the soil of them.
• 4:09:37
  I'm obviously there's also so much about identity here, so the
• 4:09:40
  beginning you've got an abandoned poly wondering if this
• 4:09:43
  is the docs or whether he's just stolen the old doctors identity.
• 4:09:46
  We then explicitly, say, see the doctor taking the dead
• 4:09:50
  examiner's identity, and he's murdered by breaking who's
• 4:09:53
  hiding his identity at this stage.
• 4:09:55
  And, of course, braking is also leader of the rebels hiding.
• 4:09:59
  His identity again, or that Supply, because what he wants to
• 4:10:01
  be identified is as colony or governor of the company Masters
• 4:10:06
  that man pull off. Exactly, but it's, but they
• 4:10:09
  don't feel cheap, it doesn't feel like the Scooby-Doo
• 4:10:11
  whipping off of the Mask, if it feels really earned, and really
• 4:10:14
  clever all the way through. To standards.
• 4:10:18
  I mean, you've nine dollar characters less than Hansel
• 4:10:20
  break and Quinn leave and valma all of them feel
• 4:10:23
  three-dimensional. They've all got multiple Shades
• 4:10:26
  multiple motivate motivations, I think is such a great customer
• 4:10:30
  characters. My second reason was going to be
• 4:10:32
  episode 6, but Joe and Toby you've already said, you know,
• 4:10:35
  Haze episode 4 is held up as kind of this violently
• 4:10:39
  breathless. Chase to the end.
• 4:10:40
  I think this does it better. And it certainly does that a lot
• 4:10:44
  early. I think it's absolutely
• 4:10:45
  spectacular. The end of this.
• 4:10:48
  Yeah, we've had Carnage before, we had it in myth, makes we had
• 4:10:52
  in Massacre, but this feels more visceral.
• 4:10:54
  I think, because of the machine guns, but all.
• 4:10:56
  So, in both those stories, the doctor was just obsessed with
• 4:10:59
  running away here. The doctor can't run away, he
• 4:11:02
  has got to solve there and that again, is setting.
• 4:11:05
  This doctor apart from his predecessor.
• 4:11:08
  And then the last little bit is such a throwaway scene, I just
• 4:11:12
  but it just tickled me. There's a scene in episode 2 so
• 4:11:16
  that Ben has been really mistrustful of the doctor up to
• 4:11:20
  this stage and then they're in their quarters, been poly in the
• 4:11:22
  doctor and the doctor finds the listening bug in the food.
• 4:11:25
  And at that point, been suddenly realizes that the doctor has
• 4:11:29
  been putting on a facade. And he is who he says he is and
• 4:11:32
  he's clever and just the three of them is only about a minute
• 4:11:35
  and a half after that but the three of them come together.
• 4:11:38
  As this superb little team and unit The Laughing to get the
• 4:11:42
  Ben's calling Charlie brake and the share their information,
• 4:11:45
  their planning what they're going to do and it ends with the
• 4:11:47
  doctor rationalizing and selling them why they've got to stay and
• 4:11:51
  it just shows how the doctor Ben and Polly would just such a
• 4:11:54
  brilliant, brilliant team Toby. I think he said earlier about,
• 4:11:57
  you know, in a way it's a shame that Highlanders wasn't another
• 4:12:00
  year, on we could have had this this triangle of characters that
• 4:12:04
  longer. And I think just that little
• 4:12:06
  moment that all Then that all in place they work so well.
• 4:12:10
  Together they are fantastic artist team so yeah, it's
• 4:12:14
  absolutely. This is going through my, you
• 4:12:16
  know what the outcome of this is right?
• 4:12:18
  Is that through the writing through the direction, through
• 4:12:22
  the sound effects through the actors performers, they somehow
• 4:12:25
  managed to make those cumbersome props.
• 4:12:29
  You just feel them thinking all the time and it's an inanimate
• 4:12:34
  fucking prop, you know? It's just spectacularly.
• 4:12:38
  Good. This We're on to our last story
• 4:12:41
  moon base, or you take try to take it.
• 4:12:44
  Yeah. I usually Nick the last one off.
• 4:12:46
  You, you do. Okay, the moon base, I am going
• 4:12:50
  to be down on the moon base. I think it's a bit of a cure its
• 4:12:55
  egg for me. I think there's some great
• 4:12:56
  stuff. So trouton's got like Corners,
• 4:12:59
  the universe speech, I love that interaction with the side
• 4:13:02
  moment, when the Simon said you are known to us and he just says
• 4:13:05
  quietly and you to me a skunk around, he's talking to himself
• 4:13:09
  throwing stuff, out sick by. And I think there's some good
• 4:13:12
  stuff in here for the sidemen. We first time we properly, see
• 4:13:15
  conversion oh, Sting the rest of this is really lacking.
• 4:13:19
  So my first reason is the moon base crew, we've just been
• 4:13:23
  talking about characters having, we Empower, and these characters
• 4:13:27
  for me, at the moon base, are just so lackluster.
• 4:13:30
  So, in the previous version of the story, which is, obviously
• 4:13:33
  the 10th Planet are in, was General Cutler whose
• 4:13:36
  relationship with his song, kind of humanized him, and made a
• 4:13:39
  semis with him and understanding.
• 4:13:42
  I think we get anything here. Hobson, the controller.
• 4:13:45
  Just feels terribly empty for me.
• 4:13:46
  It doesn't help that I don't particularly find Patrick bars,
• 4:13:49
  performance. Terribly engaging, he's very
• 4:13:52
  much of the kind of 1950 School of acting and the dialogue.
• 4:13:55
  Absolutely reinforces that. I mean, I've got wrote down a
• 4:13:58
  couple of lines, it's so 1950s. Toby would do a far better RP
• 4:14:03
  than me but a couple of couple of options lines are.
• 4:14:06
  Oh I know, Roger, it's tough on all of us but the lives of
• 4:14:10
  millions of people depend on this weather control unit and
• 4:14:13
  then there's a brilliant. One way, we ask Evans to give
• 4:14:16
  himself up and he says to, you can't shoot all of us.
• 4:14:19
  So why don't you be a good fellow and come out here?
• 4:14:21
  I hate just aged dripping in 1950.
• 4:14:25
  All I've got to say, he is beaten by rimberg, who's the
• 4:14:29
  voice on the end of the radio, receiver who does sound as
• 4:14:32
  though he's just stepped off set of briefing counter.
• 4:14:36
  It's not just, I don't engage with Hobson Roger Benoit.
• 4:14:39
  Again, we don't learn anything about him apart from the fact
• 4:14:42
  that his French and he wears, Auntie crapper, it doesn't help
• 4:14:47
  that actor. How we know he is French.
• 4:14:49
  Oh, we bother me. Um, but the ACT Andre Moran, he
• 4:14:55
  was the lead in so many TV shows.
• 4:14:57
  When I was a kid, played out on a Sunday morning showing you how
• 4:15:01
  teaching you how to learn to speak French and I fucking hated
• 4:15:05
  them and I had to sit him for every Sunday morning.
• 4:15:08
  So the minute I see that man's face.
• 4:15:10
  I want to punch it. Right?
• 4:15:11
  Child and Nightmares story and then he got Michael's Nails.
• 4:15:18
  He's born in Germany, but he's playing Dane Danish.
• 4:15:21
  I'm not sure he's accent. He's anywhere between those two.
• 4:15:24
  So, just think this group of characters are just so Blanding,
• 4:15:27
  again, I'm gonna compare them against Leicester, sun, and
• 4:15:30
  Quinn, and John Lee and these lot just really come up short.
• 4:15:33
  So that's my first reason, the Second reason.
• 4:15:36
  Oh, you for second? Yeah, well, because I think
• 4:15:39
  let's on a blah blah, far, more interesting people.
• 4:15:43
  Yeah, but I really think they're sort of the people that you'd
• 4:15:46
  be. I think these people, they feel
• 4:15:48
  like a normal bunch of people working on a base on the moon.
• 4:15:52
  And I think that's the idea problem.
• 4:15:55
  No, just dull, Dollar's ditch Walter.
• 4:15:58
  It's like the people are well with, you know, you socialize
• 4:16:02
  with them but they can run a shop.
• 4:16:03
  But do you do want to watch the sidemen with massive guns?
• 4:16:09
  Trying to murder them all. Let's, let's come on to the
• 4:16:12
  ridiculous plot element, shall we narrow just so many plot
• 4:16:16
  holes in there, so Hobson suspects.
• 4:16:18
  The Tardis crew are behind this sabotage of the Gravitron and
• 4:16:21
  they're responsible for this mystery disease.
• 4:16:23
  So what's he do? He gives them full access to the
• 4:16:26
  medical Bay they're unrestricted.
• 4:16:28
  They've not got supervision and they're in there doing whatever
• 4:16:31
  they want to do. And we keep cutting back to
• 4:16:33
  Hopsin, scratching his chin saying, or I wonder if they're
• 4:16:36
  behind it. All.
• 4:16:36
  And then they go back to know, just take it in an episode one
• 4:16:43
  policies, a creature. She doesn't recognize Cyber
• 4:16:46
  Monday. Yeah.
• 4:16:49
  And they discover Evans has disappeared from his bed but do
• 4:16:53
  they place a guard in that? No, they don't.
• 4:16:55
  Then an episode 2 again policies.
• 4:16:57
  Now she recognizes the Cybermen and this time he's carrying the
• 4:17:00
  body away from the Sick Bay again.
• 4:17:02
  This is the second time. So do they put a car Know
• 4:17:06
  they're still don't bother so aside man comes in for the third
• 4:17:08
  time and renders poly unconscious.
• 4:17:10
  Yeah, they still continue to work in the Sick Bay without
• 4:17:14
  seeing it up. It just seems ludicrous.
• 4:17:16
  And how does that small hole the punches?
• 4:17:19
  The moon base that they touch with the tea tree?
• 4:17:21
  How does that, cause the air to escape, but the fucking great
• 4:17:24
  big hole in the storeroom where the Cybermen walks through that
• 4:17:28
  doesn't cause any air to escape because of sugar in front of it,
• 4:17:32
  it's those Banks of sugar very strong teacher, all right?
• 4:17:37
  Yeah. It's the bags of sugar, they
• 4:17:39
  load in very slowly to cover up the whole.
• 4:17:42
  How did everyone as well? Miss that hole, when they say
• 4:17:44
  they've explored this should their stupid Earth brains can
• 4:17:48
  comprehend really beside me to make some point.
• 4:17:56
  I've checked all the food for contagion but he's missed the
• 4:17:59
  sugar even though it's the sugar that's got all the bags slashed
• 4:18:03
  in the room drawing attention to the fact It's the Shogun.
• 4:18:06
  He thinks less of this punch than you do.
• 4:18:08
  He's happy for them to start dying off.
• 4:18:10
  They can all die. So things like too many silly
• 4:18:13
  plots and my third reason is the set.
• 4:18:15
  So this is the first time now that the production team hits on
• 4:18:19
  the concept that we can have one great big set in an episode and
• 4:18:22
  that everything can flow around there.
• 4:18:24
  I think what that does is although it works.
• 4:18:26
  Well, here is Straight Jackets us.
• 4:18:28
  When we go into some five that we've continually got the one
• 4:18:32
  big set and everything else is he's much smaller scale.
• 4:18:35
  So I think it hampers certainly hampers season 5 going forward
• 4:18:39
  on this is where that starts. So I'm gonna put that through as
• 4:18:42
  a negative. So for me so I understand
• 4:18:45
  amazing. And you made, because they see,
• 4:18:52
  they think this works so well, like, take the stories that
• 4:18:55
  sometimes not convinced. It's it's out for me.
• 4:19:01
  It's a no for me. Shall we go to the comments?
• 4:19:04
  Let's do it. A trade Doctor Who says this is
• 4:19:08
  one of the best cyber Stories, the sugar, the hospital
• 4:19:11
  Cliffhanger on, but I've just got to mention the hospital
• 4:19:14
  Cliffhanger. So I love the hospital, the best
• 4:19:18
  cyber store, I think it looked, I know, but I think the
• 4:19:22
  Cliffhanger is really good at the end of episode 2.
• 4:19:25
  And I was watching this, I'm a husband walked in and he just
• 4:19:28
  burst out laughing because the site I was expecting to be
• 4:19:30
  impressive, the Simon's and the beds wobbling away, and he just
• 4:19:35
  burst out laughing and said, what the hell are you watching
• 4:19:38
  here? Rolled I know and I thought
• 4:19:41
  always gonna love this. This is really clever, but then
• 4:19:44
  yeah, the wobbling bad kind of threat.
• 4:19:46
  Anyway, back to trade Dr. One of the best Side Stories, the
• 4:19:49
  sugar, the hospital Cliffhanger, all of it, just reminds us their
• 4:19:52
  intelligent and not robots. I'll go and have some sugar now.
• 4:19:55
  Can you Rose? Lee says a Bowden Vivid story of
• 4:19:58
  tardis turbulence, poisoned sugar and cyber Shenanigan's
• 4:20:02
  world but what strictly all the silly moments.
• 4:20:06
  A drinks. The best protections against the
• 4:20:08
  vacuum of space and Jamie's two episode.
• 4:20:10
  Bump on the hit Daniel nicest looks great.
• 4:20:13
  And that's a strong plot with lots of Ben and Polly to do, but
• 4:20:16
  poor Jaime gets knocked out. Cyber men looking pressive and
• 4:20:19
  is this where trout and finally becomes the doctor we know and
• 4:20:22
  love the internal monologues are neat.
• 4:20:24
  James Holden Bennett. And today, the Penguin and
• 4:20:27
  today, the pendulum swings to die out.
• 4:20:30
  Nothing about the story makes the most experienced sense, but
• 4:20:33
  it doesn't A great. I'm getting tired but it doesn't
• 4:20:36
  have a sense of fun to keep it going.
• 4:20:39
  Mud Paddington says, I love the creepy cyber theme and the
• 4:20:42
  International Space Station, great use of a tea trade to save
• 4:20:45
  the day. Not enough of that.
• 4:20:47
  In modern Doctor, Who sakati day, Steve Miller says tense
• 4:20:51
  atmosphere, iconic, Cybermen, classic bass, Under Siege with
• 4:20:55
  moon. Walking Cybermen, what's not to
• 4:20:57
  love Simon at their creepiest, a must-watch, big orange.
• 4:21:00
  Michael says trust and finds his take on the doctor and his
• 4:21:03
  glorious sets, the template for the Basin to Siege story.
• 4:21:06
  Keep it if only for trouts and evil that must be fought speech
• 4:21:09
  extra points. For the Cyber threat, feeding
• 4:21:11
  scaring raise a Gregory. Thanks for the lawyer didn't
• 4:21:14
  take long to see the potential, decide men and back.
• 4:21:17
  They come the better design and a story that suits him to the
• 4:21:20
  ground. The World building of the
• 4:21:22
  titular base is exceptional and Jamie's napkins Polly a real
• 4:21:26
  chance to shine. Jason Thompson said a favorite
• 4:21:29
  the redesign of the look and sound of the Cybermen does
• 4:21:31
  wonders and the Cliffhanger part 3 with the marching out of their
• 4:21:34
  ship. To the tune of space adventure
• 4:21:36
  part 2 is awesome. Oh, and the much ridicule tea,
• 4:21:40
  tray patch of the Dome woodwork. So there keep it and he knows
• 4:21:44
  your science. Jason Thompson has given a big
• 4:21:47
  thumbs up, Karen liters, I love a good atmosphere.
• 4:21:50
  Superb soundscape, the bass crew are all tedious but the thought
• 4:21:54
  is true of good. Fun.
• 4:21:55
  Silly plot but it's undermining and the Cybermen are lurking and
• 4:21:58
  creeping as they should be. Okay.
• 4:22:00
  Let's be Brad said, yeah. It's a remake of the 10th
• 4:22:02
  Planet, but it's also an improvement with a better
• 4:22:04
  structure, and an active role. For the doctor.
• 4:22:06
  The Cybermen are a bit less interesting, but they do have
• 4:22:09
  some brilliant dialogue. In episode 3, one of my comfort
• 4:22:12
  stories, Jack Koya, solid trout, and defining what he wants to do
• 4:22:15
  with the character. This story is about Humanity.
• 4:22:18
  Winning man, has inventions monsters.
• 4:22:21
  Want to turn it into a weapon man, uses it as a weapon only on
• 4:22:24
  the monsters to defeat them and it preaches International
• 4:22:27
  cooperation in general goodness. As such, it's fine.
• 4:22:30
  Now, really says, the ultimate based on The Siege on the
• 4:22:33
  sidemen threat has never been Paul Dunn says as good a story
• 4:22:38
  as to love all the film stuff on the moon.
• 4:22:41
  The Cybermen are creepy and a real fret and it doesn't really
• 4:22:44
  drag a nice tight story or Quincy simultaneously, really
• 4:22:48
  good and really stupid. Thank goodness.
• 4:22:50
  We have episode two because it demonstrates how trouts and
• 4:22:53
  settled into the role and how he developed the doctor.
• 4:22:55
  As neo-con investigator, whose easily underestimated and
• 4:22:59
  finally, Paul smoy, the Simon look excellent, the regulars on
• 4:23:03
  top four, not the best of the season but not bad.
• 4:23:08
  I think we ought to go to Marcus.
• 4:23:10
  I think Mark's going to be a little bit down on this one just
• 4:23:13
  feeling. Oh, right.
• 4:23:15
  Okay. I think this rubbish.
• 4:23:21
  But I want to communicate how rubbish this is by talking about
• 4:23:25
  three things that I love that. I think this gets wrong.
• 4:23:28
  Okay, so that that's how we're going to do this.
• 4:23:32
  So we're going to work backwards so Star Trek, you know, as we
• 4:23:39
  discussed earlier. So it's Seven hours ago?
• 4:23:42
  Yes yesterday. Last week. um, Star Trek doesn't
• 4:23:47
  come to the UK until after the war games, but I think the moon
• 4:23:53
  base speaks to a post-war Western attitude of kind of
• 4:23:59
  international cooperation. So the moon base itself is this
• 4:24:04
  kind of international base, Where you've got these kind of
• 4:24:09
  astronauts technicians scientists from multiple
• 4:24:13
  backgrounds working together on the Gravitron in, you know, to
• 4:24:20
  control the weather. But Fucking boring.
• 4:24:25
  This like start Star Trek in the 60s right?
• 4:24:30
  Start checking the sixes is William Shatner career around
• 4:24:34
  the Galaxy. Jagging around.
• 4:24:38
  Waiting. You know, truth power in the
• 4:24:41
  American way. This, there's a whole scene.
• 4:24:45
  Is it hot to your part 3 with the old sit around?
• 4:24:52
  For an address by this boring fucking Bureau.
• 4:24:58
  Good. Oh well, you know, well, I know
• 4:25:01
  you're all up there on the moon but you know, I've spoken to
• 4:25:04
  Lord Cecily whatever and you know, and he's very upset about
• 4:25:09
  how you're controlling the weather and and what we're all
• 4:25:13
  sitting there watching this knowing that the Cybermen or the
• 4:25:16
  fringes of the moon base. I'm watching these Pricks.
• 4:25:20
  Listen to this up. Even more boring prick.
• 4:25:25
  It it's really dull. It's like, I have this thing
• 4:25:29
  been live. I've talked to space on the same
• 4:25:31
  last that. Is Star Trek, more optimistic,
• 4:25:35
  but the future than doctors. Depends which Star Trek show.
• 4:25:39
  You're watching. It does it does depends, but I
• 4:25:42
  do think a lot of Doctor Who when it talks about the future,
• 4:25:45
  It goes over will always be some really boring bureaucrat.
• 4:25:50
  He brings everything down and I feel it more realistic of the
• 4:25:55
  Star Trek. It probably is it probably is
• 4:25:57
  who I feel that it's not very good drama. ultimately, and I
• 4:26:03
  think, The Next Generation. I mean, I love this, I love TNG
• 4:26:10
  but they're just a bunch of bureaucrats in that but TNG is
• 4:26:14
  worse is what the Moon. Base, which is just a bunch of
• 4:26:17
  bureaucrats and who there's an alien threat.
• 4:26:19
  And oh and actually if someone said that somebody's poisoning,
• 4:26:23
  the sugar on that planet. Oh well prime directive doesn't
• 4:26:27
  allow. Let's go.
• 4:26:28
  I've triggered you and The TNG thing.
• 4:26:34
  Further. The board, right?
• 4:26:37
  And the Borg everybody goes, oh, the board reptile off the side
• 4:26:42
  of the moon or the new series, the Spider-Man. stalking is that
• 4:26:49
  they're a threat, they cause they Take out like they will
• 4:26:56
  just indoctrinate, everybody. They will subsume and a
• 4:27:00
  similarly everyone into their own culture.
• 4:27:03
  We're still not there with this Iron Man in The Second Story.
• 4:27:06
  There's a bit of conversion but they were kind of weird. certain
• 4:27:11
  little sack over their heads and because swimming, how much it's
• 4:27:18
  not that kind of horror of cyber conversion that you get a little
• 4:27:22
  bit of into and then that kind of slowly becomes a thing.
• 4:27:27
  It's always do get here as well, though.
• 4:27:29
  The balls are just become a load of robots in Star Trek.
• 4:27:33
  Well, they do. There's about three episodes
• 4:27:34
  where they properly when they first come in, when they first
• 4:27:37
  come in, that's the horror of it was I feel like they sort of
• 4:27:41
  evolved the Cybermen quite a lot.
• 4:27:42
  And they do push away from the body horror and turn them into
• 4:27:45
  sort of shock troops, but they're sort of going with the
• 4:27:48
  times, you know, because. So you've got that and I think,
• 4:27:54
  My main issue with the moon base is the Cybermen.
• 4:27:58
  I think you look at, we look at the dialects.
• 4:28:02
  Because of the tear don't you have the Daleks the sidemen?
• 4:28:09
  um, you have the dialects the first cereal It's on their own
• 4:28:15
  Planet. They don't meet them.
• 4:28:19
  The next time we see them, they've invasions are my God.
• 4:28:22
  Like, what's, what's going on? That's a proper kind of, you
• 4:28:26
  know, step up for what's happened.
• 4:28:29
  Let's look at the tenth planet. The 10th planet.
• 4:28:32
  The Cybermen attack and isolated polar base.
• 4:28:37
  In the moon base, the Cybermen attack and isolated lunar base.
• 4:28:43
  There's no. Step Up.
• 4:28:47
  That we had with Dalek invasion of Earth, we don't start that we
• 4:28:51
  had to listen, if I control the weather, you know, make it rain
• 4:28:53
  everywhere. Exactly.
• 4:28:54
  And you don't get that step up, you don't even get it in the
• 4:28:58
  next five months. Sorry after this because once
• 4:29:00
  again the wheel in space they're taking over isolate space
• 4:29:05
  station. Oh man, it's not just isolated
• 4:29:09
  bass. This was a bit different but in
• 4:29:13
  terms of You know, in, in terms of kind of see, you got two
• 4:29:17
  breasts, like, oh, well, let's look at what happened to the
• 4:29:20
  side of man. And we'll move to an ice lady
• 4:29:23
  base with the sacraments. We get our delicate around with
• 4:29:28
  the invasion, which is years later.
• 4:29:32
  This, there's a whole thing pattern here and there's a kind
• 4:29:36
  of refusal or not necessarily A fusible.
• 4:29:39
  I can They don't know what they want to do with this Iron Man.
• 4:29:44
  And and that's the problem. They've been based that.
• 4:29:46
  It's like, what did they convert people to being sad when?
• 4:29:49
  Yeah, maybe a little bit but we're not gonna We're not gonna
• 4:29:53
  show the horror of that. They're just kind of like black
• 4:29:55
  veins and we're a weird little Swimming cap.
• 4:29:59
  Or like a little, a little thing on their forehead.
• 4:30:03
  And so yeah I don't think the moon base works as a sort of
• 4:30:08
  sequel to The Tenth Planet. It works as well.
• 4:30:11
  Let's just find it again. But slightly Slicker Cybermen
• 4:30:15
  that that's kind of what we get. and then, finally, in terms of
• 4:30:19
  things that I love that gets wrong, Jamie, And he spends two
• 4:30:26
  episodes of sleep. Being a kind of superstitious.
• 4:30:31
  Scotsman that they kind of forgot about the MacBook Air of
• 4:30:35
  making that again. So we can have the whole Phantom
• 4:30:39
  Piper thing and I like the idea I like the idea of the you know,
• 4:30:45
  the fans pipe was the signifier of death and Jamie's But
• 4:30:50
  ultimately he's just a bump in the head.
• 4:30:55
  If he'd been, like, kind of struck down by a cyber and that
• 4:30:58
  none of them had seen, but we'd seen as an audience.
• 4:31:02
  And he's in the hospital waiting for this and other side, man's
• 4:31:06
  gonna come and collect it. to be more drama there but he's
• 4:31:09
  literally just bumped himself from their head while doing some
• 4:31:13
  zero g Walkin On The Wind surface, And you just has a lie
• 4:31:19
  down for two episodes and then when he does get resurrect, when
• 4:31:21
  he does kind of get walking up, and he's feels better.
• 4:31:25
  He just helps Bend lift some heavy things.
• 4:31:31
  It's just when they're fighting over College.
• 4:31:34
  Just love, she's beautiful. You, I really want to love the
• 4:31:43
  moon base. I love the Sandman, I love the
• 4:31:47
  idea of the Moon makes them, you know, the sidemen and all the
• 4:31:51
  stuff at the sidemen. And on the moon surface looks
• 4:31:53
  stunning. As a story.
• 4:31:58
  It's so dull. It's so drawing.
• 4:32:03
  No, it's a little for me. Go be Moonbase.
• 4:32:09
  I watched the moon base a couple of months ago just for fun.
• 4:32:11
  I was just in the mood to watch something.
• 4:32:13
  And and I realized I'd probably hadn't, you know, because when I
• 4:32:17
  first started collecting, I just had the, the orphaned episode
• 4:32:19
  and and I watched it with the animation and and the animation,
• 4:32:23
  by the way, I think is excellent and and enjoyed it.
• 4:32:26
  And Then, you know, and enjoyed it very much and and
• 4:32:32
  contemplating it for this, I thought of, you know, that the
• 4:32:35
  things that really work in it, Patrick Trenton is Magnificent,
• 4:32:38
  the sun corners of the universe is lovely, but equally as the
• 4:32:44
  bit is the ridiculous bit that only started out and get away
• 4:32:47
  with he's going around the base. To stealing people's shoes which
• 4:32:51
  is really stupid but it's very funny and the bit where, you
• 4:32:56
  know, everyone Dives for cover and he goes, as the Gravitron
• 4:32:59
  switched on and they go. Yeah.
• 4:33:01
  And he goes, well, I should stay here, you know, he's he's so
• 4:33:04
  good trout. I I love the The lunar
• 4:33:10
  atmosphere that it has, this is got a unique atmosphere in that,
• 4:33:13
  it feels like it's on the moon. I know we see it being on the
• 4:33:16
  moon, but also even in the base, there's something about the love
• 4:33:19
  that the soundscape of it. There's a track called
• 4:33:21
  anesthesia that I think is also featured in edge of Destruction
• 4:33:25
  and the war machines, that's the worry, worry about that, which I
• 4:33:30
  absolutely love. I love that piece of music and
• 4:33:34
  and even though it's in those other stories if it suggests, it
• 4:33:37
  says moon to me. It's somehow just says, I'm on
• 4:33:40
  the moon and I was and I watched a bit of it again today.
• 4:33:44
  And I and I watched episode 2 and it bled into episode three
• 4:33:47
  and It's funny how we look at, you know, the Daleks being a bit
• 4:33:50
  different from how we're used to them is is sort of oddly
• 4:33:54
  exciting and yet the Cybermen when they.
• 4:33:56
  So, there's a bit when Hobson says, if you've done anything to
• 4:34:00
  my men and the Cybermen just goes, you will do nothing and
• 4:34:03
  you're, oh, you're quite, you're quite hard, you're quite Nails.
• 4:34:06
  Cybermen. And, and of course, there is, of
• 4:34:10
  course, the famous, you know, only your stupid brains and
• 4:34:14
  clever. Clever clever.
• 4:34:15
  And and I really like to see in episode four, I think it hit me
• 4:34:19
  more in the book, but it's it's still at that that moment where
• 4:34:22
  they just watched the space ship.
• 4:34:23
  That's come to rescue them. Get diverted off course, and
• 4:34:26
  it's like, well, they're fucked, but not yet they're gonna, you
• 4:34:29
  know, they're gonna go into the sun in a bit but there's nothing
• 4:34:31
  we can do. And that's a really that's a
• 4:34:33
  brilliantly economical Doctor Who way of of conveying
• 4:34:36
  terrorism. That we don't even see those
• 4:34:38
  people. But we can sort of imagine, and
• 4:34:40
  it's really grim and I like the, the look of the Cybermen And
• 4:34:47
  actually, at the end of episode two, I know he's sort of rocks
• 4:34:49
  the bed but I quite like the way it points, the gun in a sort of
• 4:34:52
  Paul Darrow, sort of way over his wrist.
• 4:34:53
  That's very sexy. But I don't like, I just don't
• 4:35:00
  like it. I don't like the moon place.
• 4:35:02
  I don't think it's very good. I remember when I, you know,
• 4:35:05
  when I again when I got this, now this wasn't on my orphan to
• 4:35:11
  take because there were two episodes of it.
• 4:35:12
  I got it on a, I got it on another tape so I got a little
• 4:35:16
  bit later but it was still an early one.
• 4:35:17
  And I I just remember being a bit disappointed by.
• 4:35:19
  I think it's mostly The crew. I remember writing a science
• 4:35:23
  fiction story as a kid and I think I read it, I insist on
• 4:35:26
  reading it out in front of people and things like that.
• 4:35:28
  And and I remember that I wanted to set the scene on my space
• 4:35:32
  base, or whatever, by introducing all the characters.
• 4:35:34
  So, I did a roll call and it was only when I read it out in front
• 4:35:37
  of people and did this list of about 20 names, you could see
• 4:35:41
  them sort of smirking and I thought, oh, I haven't done this
• 4:35:44
  very artfully and this is a bit boring and that's exactly what
• 4:35:47
  happens here. Not only does it happen here but
• 4:35:50
  Hobson who's working in a place where people are dying
• 4:35:52
  mysteriously one presumes. It's a high security out for
• 4:35:56
  even though there's no form of security whatsoever.
• 4:35:58
  Basically, sees four strangers walking and he goes oh oh this
• 4:36:03
  is this is this is this this is I'm slightly knocked by this but
• 4:36:07
  nonetheless for may as well introduce you to everybody then
• 4:36:10
  gives a big long list of names as if those characters are, then
• 4:36:14
  gonna have any character whatsoever.
• 4:36:17
  I mean, we know Ben Juarez French because he's played by
• 4:36:19
  the BBC's Frenchman, but Doctor Who has a series often, you
• 4:36:23
  know, a series of happy accidents.
• 4:36:25
  That make things better. You know, things that go wrong
• 4:36:30
  that they have to do a last minute expedient that suddenly,
• 4:36:33
  is the makings of a story. And it happens with the moon
• 4:36:38
  base that just in case, anyone wasn't sure that Ben Wah was
• 4:36:42
  French. They they, he's originally
• 4:36:45
  called Jewel, isn't he? And then, they realize, they've
• 4:36:47
  actually called two people Jewel.
• 4:36:48
  So they changed his name because he's the most important of the
• 4:36:52
  two characters to Roche. So they have to give him a neck
• 4:36:55
  Chief to cover the R. So it gives him extra French.
• 4:37:00
  In case we hadn't got, we hadn't picked.
• 4:37:03
  I was sold that he was French. Here's a lovely little Factor
• 4:37:07
  when my son was at University in Brighton.
• 4:37:10
  I went to see him and he said, oh, I'll text you when I'm up,
• 4:37:14
  even though I'd gone to visit on the night.
• 4:37:17
  Before. So I got up really early to go
• 4:37:18
  once you get and he didn't text me about 2:00 in the afternoon
• 4:37:21
  because he's a young man. So what I did was I got Andrea
• 4:37:26
  Moran's address. I need it, not it.
• 4:37:29
  Not done the commentary for us because he said he didn't
• 4:37:31
  remember anything. And then I wrote him a letter
• 4:37:33
  and he wrote me a lovely little note back.
• 4:37:34
  And signed signed the photos that sent him on the back.
• 4:37:37
  And I thought, well, what if I was a proper journalist or an
• 4:37:42
  Intrepid person, what I'll do is I'll go and say hello to him,
• 4:37:44
  because he said he was lovely in his note, and I stood outside
• 4:37:47
  the front door of his house for three hours and never plucked up
• 4:37:51
  the courage to knock on the door, so because I'm hopeless.
• 4:37:55
  And so, there we go. So that's that's, that's, that's
• 4:37:58
  how I spent a lot of time to think about that.
• 4:38:01
  And but Patrick bar, I think was a very, very good actor of a
• 4:38:07
  type. He was a very nice film action
• 4:38:08
  in the 50s and he was really the artist, see in the 70s and he
• 4:38:10
  was good, radioactive two, and but Hobson.
• 4:38:13
  I mean, to the extent is so boring, a character that when
• 4:38:18
  Jerry Davis comes to write the book, he makes him from
• 4:38:20
  Yorkshire and a bit grumpy just to make just just because he
• 4:38:24
  does nothing to this man. So I'm gonna have to everyone
• 4:38:27
  else is from a country, I shall Make him from a region because
• 4:38:30
  that is character. And, and so, and, and I think,
• 4:38:34
  you know, Hobson's reaction to everything with this sort of
• 4:38:37
  mild exasperation is. Not, you can see why they made
• 4:38:40
  base commanders later, go mad, because, because because,
• 4:38:43
  because you have to give them something, and they've gone to
• 4:38:47
  the extent of populating this base with people that they all
• 4:38:52
  give names to, and none of them have any discernible character
• 4:38:56
  whatsoever. We're told Niels is a mad Dane,
• 4:39:00
  but he's not really. He's just, he's the, he's the
• 4:39:02
  telephone operators, isn't he? Is the?
• 4:39:03
  And so again a name, that's one up on their excitement.
• 4:39:07
  Yeah, but it just seems that they've done that.
• 4:39:10
  They've done. They've done.
• 4:39:11
  They've done that bit. They take right?
• 4:39:13
  That's enough. And it's just sort of boring men
• 4:39:16
  in t-shirts. I actually quite like when
• 4:39:18
  controller in bird calls in and Hopsin goes, a buddy.
• 4:39:21
  Gets a knight Hood. So, that's a brief moment of
• 4:39:24
  sort of real. And I am slightly convinced Joe
• 4:39:26
  by your thing of, well, this is what you want this.
• 4:39:28
  Is just people doing a job in a place but I kind of need more
• 4:39:33
  than that to get also. I don't know how the Gravitron
• 4:39:35
  Works. They just point it at Bermuda
• 4:39:36
  and say, press know go on. Fuck them up.
• 4:39:39
  That's all I need a big fan. And they break it really easily.
• 4:39:44
  And and and, and a lot of the plot like this.
• 4:39:48
  I mean, the sugar thing is a thing that seems so clever to me
• 4:39:50
  when I was a kid, is that the first cup at the cup of coffee
• 4:39:54
  that the doctor knocks out of Hobson's hand, is that the first
• 4:39:58
  cup of coffee? He was going to drink since the
• 4:40:01
  Cybermen, because it's that genius thing ago.
• 4:40:03
  Ah, not everyone, take sugar because of course you don't put
• 4:40:06
  sugar in anything else other than coffee.
• 4:40:08
  No. Other food stuff is prepared
• 4:40:10
  using sugar but also, if not everyone.
• 4:40:13
  So does that mean that people are dying in the order that they
• 4:40:16
  have a cup of coffee on the moon?
• 4:40:18
  Which means that I think Hobson has been overworking himself if
• 4:40:22
  this is just about to have the first cup of coffee.
• 4:40:24
  So it's it's stuff that you sort of think that seems like a good
• 4:40:27
  idea. Yeah.
• 4:40:28
  Except of course yes, they have to get into the base to infect
• 4:40:30
  the Sugar by cutting a whacking great hole in the back of it.
• 4:40:33
  And yes, and I love the way that you checked in here and they do
• 4:40:40
  a lot to sort of bring up the tension there.
• 4:40:41
  And then the camera. Settles on.
• 4:40:43
  Oh I wonder where the Cybermen can be hiding with this big boot
• 4:40:47
  sticking out the bottom of the blanket.
• 4:40:48
  So look if I was so inclined I could make a persuasive case.
• 4:40:56
  Because of the atmosphere, and the fact that it's, you know,
• 4:40:58
  man on the moon and all that sort of thing that's quite
• 4:41:00
  exciting that the multinational base, which is, you know,
• 4:41:04
  laudable and forward thinking, and it goes of Star Trek and all
• 4:41:06
  that sort of thing. But I, but I just don't think
• 4:41:10
  it's very good. So I will Consign and because I
• 4:41:15
  said, I would have to consign, you know, percentage of these
• 4:41:19
  stories to the bin, I'm sticking it in the moon bin.
• 4:41:23
  Joe, are you going to be the one voice of Madness and defend the
• 4:41:28
  moon base? I am.
• 4:41:29
  Yes, I think Toby says something very interesting there about.
• 4:41:33
  He said that seemed like a very good idea when I was a kid.
• 4:41:35
  I'm frankly, often you three people all had a lot more fun
• 4:41:39
  watching Doctor, Who when you were kids, you know, instead of
• 4:41:42
  having five our conversations as adults, the moon base, is boring
• 4:41:46
  as fuk for. It's not and I have right and
• 4:41:49
  ratings on my side because children vote with their
• 4:41:52
  remotes. And this is the highest rated
• 4:41:55
  Patrick trout and story of all time and their kids were
• 4:41:58
  absolutely Enchanted. It's Cybermen on the Moon.
• 4:42:04
  I mean that alone is just called and you are right.
• 4:42:06
  So baby. All those things are shot
• 4:42:08
  stunningly on film, I watched episode.
• 4:42:12
  Good grief, I don't think that's a three then, but that doesn't
• 4:42:14
  exist, Does it? I was so for today and the
• 4:42:16
  opening scenes that out there they're marching across and they
• 4:42:19
  sort of put something underneath the sand.
• 4:42:21
  So it feels like the sound of moving as they go and The
• 4:42:25
  Longshots with them. Like there's about knowing of
• 4:42:28
  them, I think. Shot beautifully.
• 4:42:31
  That Jerry Davis is a very stupid, man, I think, and
• 4:42:34
  obviously home sent him that less.
• 4:42:36
  I didn't they, after revenge of the Cybermen came through.
• 4:42:38
  And said now, look, you have me, write Doctor Who sometimes have
• 4:42:41
  you we've sort of moved on a bit from the days of Patrick trout,
• 4:42:44
  and what he does do is he thinks big, he fixed with big ideas and
• 4:42:49
  they're taking a cinematic approach to Dr. Who and they go
• 4:42:53
  some way to realize it, I think, because I think a lot of this
• 4:42:57
  stuff looks fantastic. And you know, you got the
• 4:43:00
  hardest crew coming out and flying on the moon, amazing.
• 4:43:04
  I bet the kids love that, you know, you caught the side from
• 4:43:06
  being defeated at the end and they're all literally go.
• 4:43:09
  Oh, you can see the strings a little bit, but it the ballet of
• 4:43:12
  the Cybermen flowing off into the atmosphere and the comedy
• 4:43:16
  sound effect. I mean, oh, I love it.
• 4:43:18
  Looks brilliant in the book and then it goes.
• 4:43:20
  Oh, I'm glad you because this was my very first Target novel
• 4:43:25
  and I begged and big one. Nanny stepped out to buy me from
• 4:43:28
  the bookstore and crawly Old Town Market.
• 4:43:31
  I love this up and whatever you might think of Jerry davies's
• 4:43:34
  plotting when I was that, I just thought this was the most
• 4:43:37
  gripping thing. I was salivating to watch this
• 4:43:41
  when I was a kid. Beginning a bit the The Legend
• 4:43:44
  of the Cybermen or whatever, the creation of the Cybermen, you
• 4:43:48
  know, how to get you into those fabulous pictures.
• 4:43:50
  Do you remember there is a picture of the side man?
• 4:43:52
  Sort of floating away. There's also a picture of Ben as
• 4:43:56
  not portrayed by Michael. Craves is some old man staring
• 4:43:59
  and up at the scanner and the console and which is very very
• 4:44:02
  hot. But no, I like the fact that I
• 4:44:06
  think this is the kids, you know, I think and I think the
• 4:44:09
  kids loved it. I really like the fact that this
• 4:44:14
  is an international base long before Star Trek came along and
• 4:44:17
  I know I get what you're saying. These are pretty functional
• 4:44:20
  characters but just the idea of everybody coming together.
• 4:44:24
  On this base work in together, clearly friends, clearly caring
• 4:44:28
  for each other because they do care when they're infected a
• 4:44:31
  murdered and all of this. It's the Star Trek ideal done
• 4:44:34
  before Star Trek and they did it in before Star Trek, in the
• 4:44:38
  shortly. Oh, that's already started.
• 4:44:41
  Then it has, I think it has already started with, yeah, 6667
• 4:44:47
  Planet because I did it there as well. yeah, but what I was
• 4:44:52
  saying, was why I was saying, was that it's kind of speaking
• 4:44:55
  to This idea of post-war, you all kind of come together.
• 4:45:01
  And that intent planet has that. It says that But then what these
• 4:45:05
  has that Star Trek doesn't have his Patrick troughton.
• 4:45:08
  So this wins by default and he's absolutely fabulous.
• 4:45:11
  And he does deliver a great speeches and he's a very
• 4:45:14
  physical performer, you know, when the tea tray of death needs
• 4:45:18
  to go up against that and he's doing wonderful things, and he
• 4:45:21
  has a wonderful relationship with Polly in this and their
• 4:45:25
  scenes in this where I was watching this and going you
• 4:45:27
  could have had to just the doctor in Polly that whole, you
• 4:45:29
  know, doctor you think there's something you didn't learn from
• 4:45:32
  Joseph Lister. And all those years ago, that
• 4:45:34
  might be used for now. Oh, Polly go put the kettle on a
• 4:45:37
  whatever he says to work. Oh wonderful, she is brilliant.
• 4:45:41
  Hit pedlar and David's right Polly superbly.
• 4:45:45
  The poly cocktail in episode 3 and they do love, they love all
• 4:45:49
  this sort of phone 30 out of men's chest, don't they are
• 4:45:53
  better. All that look right as well.
• 4:45:54
  I hear what you're all saying. And I do think there are
• 4:45:59
  plotting issues and I do think somebody ideas are stupid and I
• 4:46:02
  don't think I gave a shit. When I was eight years old, I
• 4:46:06
  just thought this was the most exciting thing ever.
• 4:46:09
  I think Morris Barry, is a really underrated Old School
• 4:46:13
  director and he can put a visual on the screen.
• 4:46:15
  I hear is a bit of a monster, but he can absolutely visualize
• 4:46:19
  Doctor. Who, and I really love the artsy
• 4:46:23
  side, man, as well. You know, those quotes, you
• 4:46:25
  said, Toby, I said, men are a bit more emotional than we are.
• 4:46:28
  Led to believe you. Think unlike the Highlanders,
• 4:46:32
  where I won't remember. I think about this tomorrow, the
• 4:46:36
  key scenes in the moon base, I will think about probably on a
• 4:46:40
  weekly basis, and I think that is a, I attribute that to his
• 4:46:44
  success. I think it's problematic, but I
• 4:46:47
  think it's a really fun, watch pulpy cartoony Big Ideas Doctor
• 4:46:53
  Who I really like it, but it's been bent.
• 4:46:55
  I just wanted to say that. Anyway, bye-bye moon base,
• 4:46:58
  right? We finally, finally, after five
• 4:47:01
  hours I've got three. Oh my God, just imagine.
• 4:47:06
  So we have lost the high. Landers, and we have lost the
• 4:47:10
  moon base. Just gonna be a toughie.
• 4:47:13
  Get your company. Music ready?
• 4:47:16
  It's got him. Right.
• 4:47:18
  We have The macro Tower. Plays.
• 4:47:29
  Our of the dark side. He always, I think you do this
• 4:47:33
  on purpose, whatever random times, right?
• 4:47:37
  Whatever I'm listening to this, I'm like don't put the two best
• 4:47:41
  stories in the first kick because then you'll end up with
• 4:47:44
  a final of something between like, you know, the space
• 4:47:48
  pirates, Patrick and blowjobs. And it's all that's tougher than
• 4:47:53
  you might think. I was really not.
• 4:47:57
  So be, let's go to you first power of the Daleks or the
• 4:47:59
  MacArthur. I hate this podcast.
• 4:48:14
  I've just realized I've got I've got inside my sandwich here.
• 4:48:18
  I've also got a moon base side of man upstairs.
• 4:48:20
  I should have won the helmet, the whole thing.
• 4:48:21
  It's a very seasoned for house. You're on speaking to come over,
• 4:48:25
  please. Yeah.
• 4:48:27
  And we'd have to see how much over here.
• 4:48:34
  Right. What is it power versus macro
• 4:48:37
  macro? Yeah. oh, lips.
• 4:48:43
  Um, I'll go for power. But this is bad.
• 4:48:47
  This is a bad system of democracy.
• 4:48:50
  Yeah, and with strawberry on this one, There's a two best
• 4:48:54
  stories in the series. It's power.
• 4:49:00
  There was the power is the bathroom.
• 4:49:02
  So yeah. Power On the right day.
• 4:49:07
  Paralyzed is my favorite daughter.
• 4:49:23
  We have evil of the Daleks this time.
• 4:49:28
  Up against how often this is. This is the one that I want you
• 4:49:34
  to do this time. You do this on purpose.
• 4:49:36
  Know, how do you do this? What the random generator?
• 4:49:40
  Well, who made the random generator he did?
• 4:49:43
  Okay, that was me. No, no, it's just, it's got a
• 4:49:48
  special fuck off. Toby.
• 4:49:50
  Hey Doc out. This is why the computer will
• 4:49:52
  destroy usually wait, what, what before we get to the what did we
• 4:49:58
  have? We had the power evil but
• 4:50:00
  professors right that's right. Yes.
• 4:50:02
  Fighters was like a witness that's the way this the way.
• 4:50:06
  Thank you. The finals gonna be between
• 4:50:10
  fucking 55 and legend of the sea Devils.
• 4:50:14
  Here was the faceless ones that. Well, we have them.
• 4:50:25
  We've got Alex, and he was just brought back to me.
• 4:50:28
  Rolls up a Plexi here. This should be the final.
• 4:50:34
  Yeah. It's been so rebellious and it
• 4:50:45
  does something stupid like this. But when you're fuking in it,
• 4:50:50
  Because I am platforming your system.
• 4:50:54
  I'm giving it. I'm lending my unimpeachable.
• 4:51:29
  Okay, first its power. Well, I'll make a choice.
• 4:51:35
  Yes. Oh, the dogs.
• 4:51:42
  I mean, it's from me as well. So Toby you don't even have to
• 4:51:47
  make a decision. Oh well I'll just say evil as a
• 4:51:51
  protest but there we go. So he is the next to four he's
• 4:51:57
  just remembered Sony coutinho's is Rippling muscles here.
• 4:52:04
  That's why that five minutes of him.
• 4:52:08
  I bending. I was just so we have got the
• 4:52:12
  faceless one. Up against Power of the dialects
• 4:52:17
  is going to be in the final stupid stupid man.
• 4:52:23
  Oh never been so abused by Target now but I'm with Sylvia
• 4:52:32
  this at least put the faceless ones again.
• 4:52:34
  No. Roll.
• 4:52:36
  Know our protection. Thanks.
• 4:52:39
  Power this is faceless ones. How big Australia don't go for
• 4:52:43
  power Toby. I, I'm spoiling my ballot paper.
• 4:52:47
  I'm refusing to take part in this fast power.
• 4:52:54
  Obviously power and it's powerful for me.
• 4:52:57
  So faceless ones is the next to fall?
• 4:53:00
  Because I wanted the back territory win, secretly know, I
• 4:53:04
  just want a bit more competition.
• 4:53:06
  It's like, oh here. well, his power of the Daleks, but he's
• 4:53:16
  Paradise, the underwater Menace In the finale.
• 4:53:18
  I'm gonna go for the underwater, maybe this, just because shorts
• 4:53:25
  possibly have seriously conference mark, Look, I'd love
• 4:53:38
  to go underwater Menace because it is a lot of fun, but like,
• 4:53:43
  Paradox is great, and it's obviously perfect.
• 4:53:46
  That looks, we're going Paradise, one a piece.
• 4:53:49
  I wonder. Which way it's gonna go the risk
• 4:53:52
  of incurring more rough and having more swear words launched
• 4:53:56
  in my direction, Toby, would you like to go power of the dialogue
• 4:53:59
  for underwater manners? Oh, you get my agent to put a
• 4:54:05
  banging order on this being. I love it to be just It's gonna
• 4:54:10
  make us withdraw this podcast. Yeah.
• 4:54:13
  No, I'm getting pair of the data.
• 4:54:15
  I do love underwater Menace but that just Began for the power of
• 4:54:19
  the day. We have done the ridiculous
• 4:54:21
  before. I know I've listened to the
• 4:54:23
  fucking podcast. It was asleep.
• 4:54:25
  No one. Is that what they are so far?
• 4:54:27
  I mean that. What did you think about the
• 4:54:29
  hand of fear? when look, I like the hand of
• 4:54:33
  fear and I said, this is the problem.
• 4:54:34
  I like the hand of fear and I think it's underrated but it's
• 4:54:37
  not the best but it's not underrated.
• 4:54:40
  Look like I can't even occasionally in in a celebration
• 4:54:46
  are occasionally have the Galaxy chocolate?
• 4:54:48
  It's not my favorite one. It's not the best one, but it's
• 4:54:51
  nice that it's there and you occasionally, I'll go have one
• 4:54:54
  of those. But if you came around to my
• 4:54:55
  house, you'd throw all the others in the bin and go look,
• 4:54:58
  we've got only Galaxy Chocolates.
• 4:55:00
  Now, I go. What are you ruined it?
• 4:55:02
  Now, I now hate them because you've you've promoted them
• 4:55:07
  above what they should be. Oh Gregory's taked out of the
• 4:55:10
  Fallout. This podcast was Savage, realize
• 4:55:13
  not was gonna be what are we done?
• 4:55:17
  So oh lovely. I'm usually this point
• 4:55:20
  celebrating the fact that we have a worthy winner but I'm
• 4:55:23
  faced by two very angry people we have.
• 4:55:27
  Oh we do it. He got lost in the asthma.
• 4:55:32
  Shouting. But yeah.
• 4:55:34
  But yes, we have got a word in a bit if I made a really nice
• 4:55:37
  lasagna and and killed a puppy. While I was doing it, you
• 4:55:41
  wouldn't be good. Oh, we got fantastic.
• 4:55:42
  Lasagna, you go the dead. Puppy all over, my living room?
• 4:55:45
  How good is the lasagna gonna be there?
• 4:55:48
  Fantastic. That are present.
• 4:55:51
  Yeah. We could have we could have a
• 4:55:53
  nice lasagna with no dead puppy. Though, if somebody knew how to
• 4:55:56
  build a proper fucking I mean that's The best that is the best
• 4:56:00
  version of lasagna that the preparation of this risk of
• 4:56:07
  sounding like Supernanny. If we could just pull back from
• 4:56:10
  the Tantrums for a second, it's righteous indignation, it's not
• 4:56:14
  there is there is an element of trump creeping in here.
• 4:56:18
  You know when the votes don't go away ten year old, try it right,
• 4:56:21
  just think ignition. I think you can say that
• 4:56:24
  paradise is a worthy. Winner is great.
• 4:56:27
  Very good story. So yeah.
• 4:56:30
  Even though we have a winner I think we could also say as well,
• 4:56:34
  give him, you know, the incandescent rage that we're
• 4:56:37
  seeing on the call right now unreasonably.
• 4:56:40
  It's a high ball season and there's a lot of good in there.
• 4:56:44
  Including the underwater men's, which came second.
• 4:56:51
  Yeah, we might lost it tonight then.
• 4:56:55
  Um, thank you, gentlemen, for your time, abuse, and insults
• 4:57:00
  this evening. I'm forgetting to a worthy
• 4:57:02
  winner. Toby, if you still like to speak
• 4:57:05
  to me, would you like to tell people where they can find you
• 4:57:07
  on the interweb? Yes, I'm on Twitter.
• 4:57:11
  I'm very needy. I put myself out there
• 4:57:16
  everywhere. I do, seriously podcast called
• 4:57:18
  Toby hater, and travels very popular.
• 4:57:21
  And I even celebrate rubbish Doctor Who because there's a
• 4:57:25
  time and place for that, but one of them isn't in the league
• 4:57:27
  rank. Anyway, it's not good.
• 4:57:28
  And hopefully, hopefully, when this goes comes out, there will
• 4:57:33
  be some news about my book on the quatermass experiment.
• 4:57:37
  Oh, please, I really hope will be out soon.
• 4:57:40
  The only thing that stopping it is tedious sort of practical
• 4:57:44
  things, but it is, it is completed and it's been
• 4:57:48
  published by the excellent 108 films.
• 4:57:50
  And as I said, I'm just hoping that you will be able to get
• 4:57:54
  that for either. Self or your loved ones because
• 4:57:57
  a lot of hard work and love has been poured.
• 4:58:00
  I've got about 10 people. I want to buy that for
• 4:58:02
  Christmas. Can you marry along please?
• 4:58:04
  Okay you've got eight weeks and Counting.
• 4:58:08
  That's depressing and Mark. Yes, you can find me on Twitter
• 4:58:14
  either at old man Coronas, which with a k or on the time last,
• 4:58:21
  we're doing well, currently, I don't know when this is going
• 4:58:25
  out, but we've done the tenant specials, I kind of a series on
• 4:58:30
  the time last minute series but also we're doing a lot more of
• 4:58:34
  in the timeline which is, broadly me, Inviting a guest on
• 4:58:39
  Joe and Roger done this plate. Would be great.
• 4:58:47
  He was the, the podcast is In the timeline is basically, I
• 4:58:58
  invite some guests on so talk about the doctors things that
• 4:59:01
  they want to consign the timeline.
• 4:59:04
  Now that just really mean Joe it's not go.
• 4:59:08
  Well, exactly. So it doesn't mean that you
• 4:59:12
  stopped he don't like the Hitch. I made to Ben when I pitched
• 4:59:19
  this idea was that it's not a bad faith podcast would be
• 4:59:22
  talked about got to being shit. it's that we pick the things
• 4:59:28
  that Say the general public, don't make a bit off to you.
• 4:59:32
  So always all wobbly sets Well, that's not true.
• 4:59:36
  Look at this. Look at this.
• 4:59:37
  And so it's basically Pick your fan myths.
• 4:59:42
  Your tired tropes, all that kind of thing.
• 4:59:47
  And we'll send them off to lock their best.
• 4:59:48
  To spend a spend a holiday with the HQ worlds.
• 4:59:53
  Can you say that please? Like, because I put in all of
• 4:59:55
  the outrageous bum and titles of women in Jesus and I want to end
• 5:00:01
  up in Loch Ness with all of that.
• 5:00:04
  Thank you very much. Oh you'll be all right.
• 5:00:06
  We dredge it after every series. Oh Well, Mark Tobey, thank you
• 5:00:17
  yet again. You are both very well back on
• 5:00:19
  the lawful that's the future today whether you accept that
• 5:00:23
  will be up to you, but it will be extended at some point.
• 5:00:27
  I would like to say, you know, if you are all pissed off
• 5:00:30
  tomorrow because you've not had enough sleep or it's just
• 5:00:32
  because you made such compelling and long arguments that were
• 5:00:37
  going to bed late. All right.
• 5:00:39
  Go next time round. I don't know that up to bed to
• 5:00:43
  be, honestly, you're the dog house.
• 5:00:45
  And yeah, I was just waiting to see a pillow thrown out of the
• 5:00:49
  corner of the shot. That's it.
• 5:00:50
  That's a dog bed by meals. It's bad.
• 5:00:53
  Don't know. next time, Joe, we are doing season 9 which I'm
• 5:00:57
  probably oh, wonderful time monster what a jam up with us
• 5:01:01
  which will probably win until we will get even more upright, and
• 5:01:05
  throw things that this new side, you know, I know that evil side,
• 5:01:13
  but until next time, All week says thank you for listening and
• 5:01:17
  until next time, I've got the energy.
• 5:01:19
  No. Other do.
• 5:01:20
  I should just like keep us now. Come on.
• 5:01:23
  Okay.