Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Elliot about his choice of The Gunfighters (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to Elliot about his choice of The Gunfighters (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Hello and welcome back to a Hamster with a Blunt pen Knife
• 0:41
  where we are continuing to Mosey on with our our talk about the
• 0:47
  gunfighters. I am not Joe Ford.
• 0:50
  I'm Elliot from the Cover on Porn podcast, but I'm joined by
• 0:55
  Joe Ford. Hi, Joe.
• 0:57
  Hello there. Yeah, you would be Joe Ford.
• 0:58
  You're you're like the more handsome, younger, you know,
• 1:02
  smarter, more charismatic Joe Ford.
• 1:05
  Did you hear our professional? You sounded at the start of
• 1:08
  that. Can't let everyone realise how
• 1:10
  shit I sound on every. So hello.
• 1:14
  Sorry. Yes.
• 1:15
  Delighted to be here. Thank you for having me.
• 1:18
  Well, thank you for having me. You're very welcome.
• 1:22
  Now where did we leave the doctor?
• 1:24
  Can you please recap what what date deadly danger was in last
• 1:27
  week? It's it's tense.
• 1:30
  Steven. Steven and Dodo are singing
• 1:32
  around a ragtime piano at gunpoint.
• 1:36
  They might get shot, but at the same time the Doctor is very
• 1:40
  lackadaisically wandering into the Last Chance Saloon with a
• 1:44
  with Doc Holidays pistol on his hip into a trap with the Clanton
• 1:49
  boys. They might think that he's Doc
• 1:50
  Holiday now. Can I ask you a question,
• 1:52
  please? That.
• 1:53
  I mean, how delightful does that sound?
• 1:55
  Yet even even just saying it, not experiencing it.
• 1:57
  Yeah. So why?
• 1:59
  What people so hard on this for so long?
• 2:02
  I don't understand. That's such a great idea.
• 2:05
  There are so many, you know, I think people, people love like
• 2:10
  some real shit. Cliffhangers.
• 2:13
  I don't write that kind of annoys you that this gets like
• 2:16
  at least this has got some genuine stakes to it.
• 2:18
  It's not like that one from is it?
• 2:21
  Is it? Is it Planet of the Daleks?
• 2:23
  But one of the Pertly Daleks stories where he just sees a
• 2:25
  checkerboard floor and then says wait, stop on.
• 2:27
  The whole depth of the Daleks, Yeah.
• 2:29
  Oh no. Planet Daleks has that dreadful
• 2:31
  1. Where the fowl is inside that
• 2:34
  massive purple fur. And the Daleks, they obviously
• 2:37
  think they're the invisible people, but then they see the
• 2:39
  fowl shoe and goes Oh my God, you're not a fowl.
• 2:42
  Kill him. Someone someone has on YouTube.
• 2:49
  So apologies, because I'm not, I'm not sort of the name kind of
• 2:51
  compiled just volumes of Doctor Who cliffhangers, but they're
• 2:55
  all out of context. And.
• 2:57
  They're all absolutely there must be 3 or 4.
• 3:00
  They're all so funny because out of context they just don't make
• 3:04
  any sense. My favorite 1 is probably from
• 3:05
  the Silurians where that Silurian burst into the office
• 3:08
  because the music that plays the Silurians wobbly heads,
• 3:11
  everything is great. There's a lot of good perk we
• 3:13
  want. Same with there's that
• 3:14
  compilation of perk we do for ducy and Aikido that I find
• 3:17
  enjoyable to watch. God, where'd you find these
• 3:20
  things? I mean, I never think to go
• 3:21
  looking for these things. You have to send me all the
• 3:23
  links. So again, it's so you know
• 3:24
  you're in deep. Is when you're getting
• 3:26
  recommended compilations of but John Perry yelling I hate.
• 3:31
  This, Elliot. But there's no coming back for
• 3:33
  you now, I'm afraid. I wouldn't have it any other
• 3:37
  way. It's.
• 3:37
  Only when they brought out the 15th version of those Blu-ray
• 3:40
  sets. You'll still be getting them all
• 3:41
  right. Yeah, this is the the
• 3:43
  definitive, definitive collection they said never
• 3:46
  coming out again. That's until in in 20 years time
• 3:48
  when we all have a different premium format to be watching
• 3:51
  everything on. Well, I've got I do have a
• 3:54
  question to start episode 2, but should we go in and press play?
• 3:58
  Yeah, and I've got another Heart era themed question for you to
• 4:03
  kick us off with this episode. OK, Oh that was sorry the BBC
• 4:08
  iPlayer being weird because I was watching because I was
• 4:12
  watching a holiday for the Doctor it it hasn't got it
• 4:15
  included in the block. So the next one was don't shoot
• 4:18
  the pianist also telling us halfway through don't shoot the
• 4:20
  penis. Weird.
• 4:21
  I don't like BBC I players app. It's very strange.
• 4:23
  Just got confused for a second. Well, I always realized where I
• 4:26
  where I left off last time because it just jumps to
• 4:29
  wherever you was the last time you watched it.
• 4:32
  It's doing this weird thing though, where it's telling me
• 4:33
  when I finished things that I'm only halfway through watching
• 4:36
  them, so I look like a liar whenever I tell somebody.
• 4:38
  I was like oh watch this film on BBC, Iplay it but it says I've
• 4:40
  only watched about two hours, like an hour of it.
• 4:42
  I was exposed the other day because me and Marv are watching
• 4:45
  inside #9 right? And I, I, I've skipped ahead a
• 4:47
  little bit and watched a few without him and I, and he's
• 4:50
  going. Have you been watching it?
• 4:51
  He's like, no, of course there's the white light underneath, the
• 4:55
  white line underneath that exposes you completely.
• 4:57
  I was like, Oh yeah, maybe one or two.
• 5:00
  Fucking love inside #9. I know.
• 5:01
  I just watched the one. You know we watched the one.
• 5:03
  Yes, sorry. Nothing is your first time your
• 5:05
  first time watching it. Well, I watched the first couple
• 5:07
  of series and then I sort of, I just got busy with other stuff
• 5:11
  and never went back to it. But I watched the one with Derek
• 5:14
  Jacoby and the Devil in the Lift.
• 5:16
  That was fabulous. Some real I've yeah, I'd love,
• 5:20
  love inside #9 I'm really. Sad to say some people said it
• 5:23
  went a bit off the boil, but I'm I'm not really the odd one.
• 5:26
  I think, you know, an anthology series I think is always going
• 5:29
  to have. You're not Doctor Who.
• 5:31
  Yeah, it's all about taste and everything, isn't it?
• 5:33
  There's always two or three a series that I go.
• 5:36
  I wasn't that bothered about that.
• 5:37
  But that's why anthology TV is good.
• 5:38
  There's nothing for everybody. Well, yeah, and I I love the
• 5:41
  diversity. That is actually the biggest
• 5:43
  reason I love Doctor Who is that you will have the Gunfighters
• 5:47
  one week and the savages the next.
• 5:49
  You know, whatever or the Celestial toy maker or whatever
• 5:52
  else is in it this season. It's why I was that I need to
• 5:57
  justify or apologise for it. But you know, again, why I was a
• 6:00
  bit, a bit down on season 5, because even if the quality of
• 6:04
  the stories are good, it, it never quite surprises me.
• 6:07
  We, we, we're going to a base and we're doing something
• 6:09
  similar. But yeah, I like this ear of the
• 6:12
  show. Like you say, we're we're in
• 6:13
  ancient Greece and then we're in, then we're in medieval
• 6:17
  France. You know them.
• 6:19
  Then we're off for 12 weeks for a ROB around the Galaxy with
• 6:21
  the. Dark, literally, we're
• 6:22
  everywhere in that. I mean, there's no tone, genre,
• 6:25
  style that we don't touch upon. There's a fucking cricket match
• 6:28
  in episode 6 or something like, you know.
• 6:30
  I remember over my heart, but he's he's not he's not super
• 6:33
  into Doctor Who, but he always tries, you know, he tries to
• 6:36
  engage. Bless him.
• 6:37
  I remember him saying to me. And again, this is when you know
• 6:40
  that you're too much for the you're telling me.
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  It was like the perfect setting for the Daleks where they'd be
• 6:44
  really cool. It's like it's in ancient Egypt
• 6:45
  and you have to go, well, there's two episodes of The
• 6:47
  Dalek Master Plan. Why don't you stick?
• 6:50
  Oh, where's the colour? He says.
• 6:52
  Oh yeah, maybe the same for you. Yeah, but there's only two
• 6:55
  episodes out of 12. It's I don't really know why
• 6:58
  they go there and the monks there.
• 6:59
  Did we go to Egypt in a new set? Whatever we have that we not
• 7:02
  properly, I know we went we we picked up that Egyptian queen.
• 7:07
  Yeah, he's got he's had a love affair with.
• 7:09
  That appalling episode where she's, yeah, what's that called?
• 7:13
  Is he in? Yeah, She's in Dinosaurs in the
• 7:15
  space ship, isn't she? Yeah.
• 7:17
  Ghastly. Anyway, it's precious.
• 7:20
  We're going to be watching something much better than that.
• 7:22
  Yeah. Are you ready to go in?
• 7:25
  Sorry, there's an invitation. Are you ready to watch the
• 7:27
  episode? So I don't get asked that much
• 7:29
  these days, but yeah, I'm ready to watch.
• 7:32
  I don't believe it for a second. Well, count us in there.
• 7:34
  Come on, give us 3 seconds. 321. Shit, I'm not ready.
• 7:39
  No, I am ready. My question is this, Are you
• 7:45
  ready? So what is your preference in
• 7:48
  the William Hartnell era? Do you prefer?
• 7:50
  Because I think there's three types of Doctor Who in not lost
• 7:54
  time historicals, future stories or the sideways adventures like
• 8:00
  the Space Museum episode one, Planet of Giants.
• 8:04
  What else you've got? Edge of destruction.
• 8:06
  What's what's your Oh, do you just love it all?
• 8:08
  I mean, I do like, I do like all of it.
• 8:10
  I think when I first watched, when I first watched it, I think
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  I was, I was feeling more comfortable with the sci-fi
• 8:19
  stuff because it's what I, it's what I knew and there's still
• 8:22
  lots of sci-fi that I enjoy. But I really think going back to
• 8:25
  it and the stuff I feel more drawn to and the stuff that I've
• 8:28
  done, like I, I watched anything that was missing, I watched
• 8:30
  either the animation, if there wasn't animation, I'd watched
• 8:32
  all those Canon stuff. But especially even just like
• 8:35
  earlier this year, I listened to a lot of just the narrated
• 8:38
  audios and the ones that stuck out to me from the narrated
• 8:42
  audios have always been the historical ones, like the the
• 8:47
  myth makers, like narrowed sword here was incredible.
• 8:51
  And I know I know everybody, everybody says it.
• 8:54
  So it's hardly, you know, it's hardly, you know, rare for each
• 8:57
  begin to get its flowers. But I mean, the massacre is, I
• 9:02
  think, probably a high point in terms of quality for the for the
• 9:05
  series. But it's only like I love I get
• 9:07
  Marco Polo. Not not Yeah.
• 9:10
  And underground opinions. I love Marco Popolo, but I
• 9:13
  really enjoyed it. Even listening to the Smugglers
• 9:15
  audio. I really do it.
• 9:18
  Fun, isn't it? Yeah, but I think by no means on
• 9:21
  his last legs in that one. No, absolutely.
• 9:23
  And I think, I think it's a thing of, and again, this is not
• 9:27
  an original point, but it's the the historicals always look
• 9:30
  better because it's the BBC being able to do what they can
• 9:33
  do well. They've got stuff in storage to
• 9:36
  be able to do the historicals and bring them to life.
• 9:38
  And it also feels like we're hard with more at home with his
• 9:42
  performances. I know I love some gonzo sci-fi
• 9:45
  stuff. I love this won't be the first
• 9:47
  time you ever hear this. I love the chase.
• 9:49
  I just love ridiculous. I do love a bit of ridiculous
• 9:53
  nonsense. I love the chase as well.
• 9:55
  It's I fucking love it. It's so good.
• 9:58
  Don't you love that really thick Dalek who looks at the screen
• 10:02
  and goes 7 no 6 minutes till we land.
• 10:07
  They make some real noises here because when when that Dalek
• 10:10
  comes out the sand for the cliffhanger for episode 1 and
• 10:13
  the whole time was just going to go.
• 10:17
  Or the one the one on the Mary Celeste who goes in the water
• 10:20
  going? Imagine the Cliff Hager for
• 10:23
  episode 1 of Dalek Invasion of the Dalek on the Water.
• 10:26
  If it was making the same sort of noises, it wouldn't be quite
• 10:28
  as impactful. Better.
• 10:30
  It would be better. It would be.
• 10:32
  Now look, how many Doctor Who stories can you think of where
• 10:35
  lady gets up on the bar like that, starts hitching her skirts
• 10:38
  up and singing the song. With the companion again looking
• 10:43
  terrified to get a piano, hitting the keys as best he can,
• 10:46
  I'm also kind of amazed. Sorry, just thinking about the
• 10:48
  Chase, I'm also kind of amazed that somehow, maybe it must be
• 10:52
  intentional, because Peter Purse's American accent is
• 10:55
  somehow worse in this than it is in the Chase.
• 10:57
  But he's giving it quite a good go at the top of the Empire
• 10:59
  State Building. Do you reckon you all's got a
• 11:03
  chase? He's, he's, he's, you know,
• 11:07
  he's, he's giving it a go. Bless him.
• 11:08
  But you remember that bit when the Dalek comes out and he he
• 11:11
  goes down to his sucker and goes, they just left.
• 11:15
  Oh my God, I could see why they saw Peter Purves when Joe.
• 11:19
  This is ideal companion material for Doctor Who.
• 11:22
  So again, you could do that at the modern series because those,
• 11:24
  those suckers, they sucker people's faces off, whatever it
• 11:27
  is they do. Whereas, you know, they're just
• 11:29
  here for a bit of window dressing.
• 11:30
  Plenty of sucking going on in the new series.
• 11:33
  Oh, the heart was in here. Now it's I'll have a little
• 11:36
  glass of milk. I'll be just too delighted.
• 11:40
  I think there's a tendency to like there's a there's a
• 11:43
  tendency I think to really bash. I think like David Tennant,
• 11:49
  especially for his like Doctor being really kind of hard on
• 11:52
  like his moral stances. And I think obviously sometimes
• 11:56
  it does come across a bit too much in the writing.
• 11:58
  But I like, I quite like it with David Tennant because it it is
• 12:02
  all in aid of the Time Lord Victorious kind of storyline he
• 12:05
  had. We have to have clear moral
• 12:06
  boundaries to realize that he's crossed them.
• 12:08
  But, you know, don't be wrong. Some of the classic Doctors will
• 12:12
  wield guns and do nonsense and John Pert, we'll have you in a
• 12:15
  fight. But in this story, you say the
• 12:17
  Doctor's afraid of even though he's got a collection of the
• 12:19
  TARDIS, he's afraid of guns. He doesn't want to handle them.
• 12:21
  He won't drink alcohol. He wants a little glass of milk.
• 12:23
  I think you know, this is properly the start of the sort
• 12:26
  of, you know, Nope, no, a bore violence.
• 12:28
  I don't drink. You know, he's a, he's just a
• 12:30
  sweet. He's a sweet.
• 12:31
  He says study later on this one, he goes.
• 12:33
  People keep giving me guns and I do wish they wouldn't.
• 12:37
  I love it. His his comic reaction there
• 12:39
  where they go, oh, we're the Clanton brothers.
• 12:41
  Oh dear, he goes. There's so many good moments
• 12:47
  where he's where Hartle says something and he says it out
• 12:50
  loud and kind of realises he shouldn't and then backtracks.
• 12:52
  I mean, again, this has got the, the which one is it?
• 12:58
  Is it this is it this one where he introduces himself as as.
• 13:03
  Yeah, is it this one? He is this 1, isn't it where he
• 13:05
  says he's Doctor Caligari? And then.
• 13:07
  Yeah. And then they say Doctor Who and
• 13:08
  he just goes, oh, yeah, it's quite right.
• 13:10
  Like all those little sides to himself are really good.
• 13:13
  And they're not. They're not mugged up for the
• 13:16
  camera. They're just very.
• 13:18
  I mean it because I. I like that Doctor Who joke, but
• 13:21
  that ending of the Wedding of River Song where Doria Mountable
• 13:25
  was going, Doctor Who, Doctor Who, I was like oh shut up.
• 13:30
  It is really. It does get really played out.
• 13:34
  That's the thing. Like when when they've done a
• 13:35
  version of that joke, but within the first three seasons of the
• 13:38
  show. You can't just keep doing it.
• 13:41
  You know it's. Did you see that between the
• 13:44
  eyes? She went between the walls.
• 13:46
  He's holding this gun. I love it.
• 13:49
  He turns to when he goes. How do we proceed?
• 13:53
  He hasn't got a fucking clue, has he?
• 13:55
  And he looks, yeah, he looks so uncomfortable as well.
• 13:57
  He's got a held by the arm and he's got his handgun pointed at
• 14:00
  everybody. But yeah, that, like those
• 14:02
  shots, like sat on the teared set from getting those shots
• 14:04
  from the stairs where where Doc Yeah, Doc Holiday and Dodo are
• 14:09
  talking books, but the doctors framed in between them is, I
• 14:14
  mean, just impressive in general, but incredibly
• 14:16
  impressive for the equipment they're working with.
• 14:18
  Yeah. Definitely.
• 14:21
  Oh look, everyone's shit. Everybody is shit of firing guns
• 14:24
  in this. Someone just blew a hole in the
• 14:25
  ceiling. I like seeing Hartnell next to
• 14:30
  Kate. He's got the gun in his hand and
• 14:32
  she's got her boobs on display. It's like, what am I watching?
• 14:35
  You know? That's who.
• 14:37
  But that's, again, I think it adds to the magic.
• 14:39
  There's a version, there's a version of that story, you know,
• 14:42
  maybe sort of a more modern one where that's genuinely a bit of
• 14:45
  a sort of sexy action hero moment.
• 14:46
  You know, he's meant to look cool with his gun.
• 14:48
  He's so standing next to a beautiful lady, you know, say
• 14:51
  she's got like a cleavage on to play.
• 14:52
  But there's something so funny about it being just hardly He
• 14:56
  looks so uncomfortable. It's like the antithesis of like
• 14:58
  the sexy action hero. Oh my God, did you see how he
• 15:01
  just shoved Hartnell against the bar there?
• 15:04
  He's an old man. You leave him alone.
• 15:08
  Oh Jesus, I can't just sit here laughing throughout this whole
• 15:11
  thing. Honestly, I think I could.
• 15:13
  I think it is probably what the best decisions the show make
• 15:17
  that, and I mean, season 3 kind of definitely takes some
• 15:22
  liberties with it, but going from having people around
• 15:25
  Hartmouth who can do the action to making him actually the lead
• 15:29
  in the series is very nice. But it's nice to see it
• 15:32
  progress. But it but they still always
• 15:36
  define the side characters. Like I don't have a problem if
• 15:39
  I'm just spending like in the massacre, I'm spending a couple
• 15:41
  episodes with Stephen because I really like Stephen as a
• 15:43
  character and I like Peter Purves's performance.
• 15:45
  But yeah, do you know? About the the the issue with him
• 15:49
  and the producer at the time when season 3 was being made.
• 15:52
  Yeah. And yeah, his name's gonna be
• 15:54
  made. John Wiles.
• 15:56
  Yes, yeah, I can never. I remember, I can never
• 15:58
  remember. I always.
• 15:59
  He's what is it? Devon just always says Wiles and
• 16:01
  Tosh. I've always liked Which but
• 16:03
  yeah. Sounds like an insult, doesn't
• 16:05
  it? Wiles and Tosh.
• 16:07
  But yeah, it it like, and that's and it's it's a shame because I
• 16:11
  think they make a lot of progress forward in Season 2,
• 16:13
  especially once and I I love Ian and Barbara, but especially once
• 16:17
  Ian and Barbara go, they make a lot of light head headwind on
• 16:21
  yeah, you know, Hartnell's our Hartnell's our new leading man.
• 16:24
  We've got we've got a young dashing action here over there,
• 16:26
  but Hartnell's our proper leading man.
• 16:27
  But yeah, then Wiles just they're.
• 16:34
  Lucky they've got Pervis because they really do have great
• 16:36
  chemistry, the two of them. And actually, it's the rarest of
• 16:39
  things. You only get it with Hartnell
• 16:41
  and Stephen, and then with Trouten and Jamie, where it's
• 16:45
  two men fronting the show. Yeah, and not a man and a woman.
• 16:49
  Although please, I must ask you this question.
• 16:53
  Why is Dojo the best companion we ever had discussed?
• 16:57
  I, I think that, I think again, going into it, so much of Doctor
• 17:02
  Who, if you haven't seen it, is held more by the standards of
• 17:06
  other people. And all I ever heard about Toto
• 17:09
  before watching it was that she was absolutely dreadful,
• 17:12
  therefore hates Dodo and I thought it quite dear.
• 17:17
  Again, it's the the ropiness of it, the the watching, watching
• 17:21
  the very sort of sad, like last few moments of the massacre.
• 17:25
  And then she like runs into the TARDIS doing a thick, a thick,
• 17:28
  like, you know, Lancashire accent.
• 17:30
  And then immediately in the arcs she's been told to scrap it
• 17:33
  because, you know, and she's and she's still trying.
• 17:35
  But I actually say I think she gets a real bad rap.
• 17:38
  I think Jackie Lane is very, she throws herself into the material
• 17:42
  quite a lot, you know? And I think what's what's
• 17:44
  unusual is the two, the two female companions that are sort
• 17:48
  of all that's sort of two-dimensional, but all
• 17:51
  enthusiasm. It's Dodo and Mel, right?
• 17:54
  Yeah. Bonnie Langford and Jackie Lane.
• 17:57
  And yet weirdly enough, both of them seem to have been
• 17:59
  reappraised in later years. It's like how fucking refreshing
• 18:03
  that there's someone who wants to be there and is having some
• 18:05
  fun. Yeah, she's like throws herself
• 18:07
  into it. And I think it, you know, it's
• 18:09
  only as and they can only be as strong as the writing is.
• 18:12
  And I think they're always really giving it the best go
• 18:16
  they can. I mean, you know, I do feel
• 18:18
  sorry for, I feel sorry for probably the most in Celestial
• 18:21
  Toy Baker. I think she's done a bit of a
• 18:22
  disservice there, mostly for. Stupid in that.
• 18:25
  Every at the end of every episode they reach a fake TARDIS
• 18:28
  and like she's just. Oh no.
• 18:30
  She's just like, it can't be fake.
• 18:32
  It can't be Steven. Don't.
• 18:35
  We've done this enough Times Now, all right.
• 18:37
  It's it's fake, trust me. But yeah, so I think they're
• 18:40
  only ever as good as the material.
• 18:42
  And I think there are companions that get fleshed out much, much
• 18:47
  less. But it's strange that it did
• 18:49
  kind of fall into that formula of it has to be, you know, the
• 18:53
  man and the woman, sort of, you know, the doctor, the doctors,
• 18:55
  you lead character. So you have to have a a female
• 18:57
  support. And I think obviously it's given
• 19:00
  us some great, you know, very iconic women.
• 19:03
  And I mean, you know, you guys talk about it a lot on Strictly,
• 19:06
  which is it's nice to see well defined just women in the show
• 19:10
  because there are entire periods we go through where they just
• 19:14
  don't bother at all. But sometimes it is really nice
• 19:18
  when they actually do have, Yeah, when the companion is the
• 19:20
  companion's male and the Doctor's male.
• 19:22
  And they have that very nice. I mean, especially say the
• 19:24
  Doctor and Jamie is very homoerotic.
• 19:28
  There's nothing homoerotic with Peter Purvis and William
• 19:30
  Hartnell, but. It's a.
• 19:33
  Little it gets a little homoerotic sometimes.
• 19:37
  I mean, Peter Berger's is very pretty, I think.
• 19:40
  Although Hartnell, Oh well, I'm sure he's somebody's type.
• 19:44
  Yeah, I mean, and Patrick Trout, I mean, you know, not my type,
• 19:48
  but I mean, if the stories I've heard about him are true.
• 19:50
  I'm surprised. Yeah, I can say I'm surprised if
• 19:53
  he, yeah, maybe he wasn't swinging a bit the other way as
• 19:56
  well. It's not always say about James
• 19:57
  Bond. I think it's impossible to have
• 19:58
  a man who's that sex stuff who's not like at least a little bit.
• 20:01
  By you know, like how how could someone be that audio all the
• 20:04
  time? I said to you, didn't I?
• 20:05
  On the chat. I think everyone's on the scale
• 20:07
  somewhere, you know, Even me. The gayest man in Doctor Who
• 20:11
  podcasting is probably somewhere that fucking Jenna Coleman
• 20:14
  honestly can't make. Put her in a suit.
• 20:17
  People could get people can get angry if if they won't be on my.
• 20:20
  My head cannon is that the Second Doctor's quite quite,
• 20:23
  quite gay. Oh yeah, and he's super campus.
• 20:26
  Oh my God, Oh my word, you know. Oh.
• 20:29
  Flapping his arms about. Oh yeah, so there's so many
• 20:32
  stories that just feel like, yeah, the doctorate is pretty
• 20:35
  eligible. Bachelor friends go around the
• 20:37
  universe solving. May I suggest you don't explore
• 20:39
  the website A Teaspoon and an Open Mind though, because there
• 20:43
  are some pretty obscene short stories on there featuring the
• 20:46
  2nd Doctor and Jamie and the 5th Doctor and Adric and well, yeah,
• 20:51
  I'll leave it to your imagination.
• 20:53
  There are also lovely stories written by Lucy McCall on there
• 20:56
  which do not feature any Eroticism whatsoever, so explore
• 21:00
  that stuff. 5th Doctor and actually that feels a bit
• 21:03
  trajectory in a way that I can't quite explain.
• 21:06
  Yeah, but that's just like Matt Smith's doctor in the new
• 21:08
  series, you know? Yeah.
• 21:10
  Oh yeah, talking about Clara's skirt being just a little, a
• 21:14
  little bit too tight. How did we get here, Elliot?
• 21:17
  Sorry, yeah, we've completely even know talking to
• 21:19
  gunfighters. I must ask you about Doc
• 21:22
  Holiday, who I think is ridiculously charming in this
• 21:25
  story. I I love, I love his, I love his
• 21:29
  presence. I love they make you a complete
• 21:31
  bastard as they as they should. Especially there's that moment.
• 21:35
  I mean, it might be again, I was sort of jumping, jumping ahead,
• 21:38
  but I think it might be episode 4 where he leaves the the room
• 21:42
  with with Dodo to go and find food.
• 21:44
  Then you see gunshots. He comes back with a with a tray
• 21:47
  of of like sort of drinks of that form.
• 21:49
  Doesn't that just make you like him more though?
• 21:52
  It's like he's a say he's a real bastard, but he feels like an
• 21:55
  actual and for for my recollection, these accents
• 21:58
  quite consistently quite good as well.
• 22:01
  I think his performance is great, and do you know what?
• 22:04
  In Doctor Who terms, he's the villain of this piece.
• 22:07
  He tries to kill the Doctor in episode 1 and yet that's some
• 22:11
  reason I just really like him. Yeah.
• 22:13
  And I but I think again, it's almost sort of they're doing, I
• 22:17
  don't know how much of it is intentional, but they're doing
• 22:20
  that kind of like Doc Holiday is so in real life kind of regard,
• 22:25
  I suppose a bit like a bit of an anti hero, you know, is an
• 22:27
  outlaw, but also like works with like the brothers in Tombstone.
• 22:32
  And I think it's quite equally that he is the villain.
• 22:37
  He's the one who puts Heartwell in danger.
• 22:38
  You should hate him. But he's also so charming and so
• 22:41
  well defined that he becomes a bit of an antier.
• 22:43
  And the Clanton boys, despite them doing basically nothing
• 22:46
  villainous other than just being a bit annoying, are the ones
• 22:49
  that you really hate. You want to sort of Boo and hiss
• 22:51
  every time they're on screen happy.
• 22:52
  When they're killed at the end, yeah.
• 22:53
  It's it's again, I don't know how much of that is intentional,
• 22:57
  but it it feels like they're actually again for under all of
• 23:00
  the, the singing and the the tooth pulligan.
• 23:03
  I mean, Stephen's very loud shirt in this scene, it feels
• 23:05
  like they're actually doing the tombstone story quite a lot of
• 23:09
  justice. Although I was told Michael
• 23:12
  Mills, who did the book club, he knows a lot about Westminster
• 23:16
  and the gunfire, the OK Quran, all of this.
• 23:18
  And he told me just how factually and accurate all of
• 23:21
  this is and how it wasn't this assemblance of characteristic.
• 23:24
  And Donald Connor has basically just pulled together a lot of
• 23:28
  characters from that time that are famous and put them all into
• 23:32
  this because it's sort of that's the conventions of the genre.
• 23:36
  You know, there's some people you expect to see and that's
• 23:38
  fair. I've got 2 questions for you.
• 23:39
  All right. And this will determine whether
• 23:42
  just how balls deep you are into Doctor Who.
• 23:44
  All right, number one is who did they first approach to play Doc
• 23:50
  Holiday? Yeah, You see, this is where
• 23:53
  sort of I fall down is all of the all of the like extra trivia
• 23:58
  stuff. Any trivia that I know tends to
• 24:01
  be picked up now from listening to other podcasts because I
• 24:05
  don't have. I know this is really bad
• 24:06
  because I love because I love physical media, but I don't
• 24:10
  actually have any of the DVDs just because it's like an
• 24:12
  expense that I can't afford to buy all of them with the seasons
• 24:16
  coming out on Blu-ray as well. So I sort of, I really watch the
• 24:20
  supplemental material where I can.
• 24:22
  So unfortunately I don't actually know.
• 24:24
  So I'm still not quite. The answer might surprise you.
• 24:28
  It's Patrick Trowan. I was, I was going to say, is it
• 24:31
  somewhat better like? Yeah.
• 24:33
  And OK, my question #2 was, and this is a bit more obscure, so.
• 24:37
  So I will probably also. What is Anthony Jacobs
• 24:41
  connection to somebody else in Doctor Who but way in the future
• 24:47
  of the programme? Who plays Doc Holiday?
• 24:51
  It's not like one of his children, or is it one of his
• 24:54
  children appears because I mean, I, I do love Doctor, but it's a
• 24:57
  very, it's very incestuous show accidentally.
• 25:02
  Son wrote the TV movie starring Paul Mcgahn.
• 25:10
  I assumed, yeah, it was going to be like sort of acting lineage,
• 25:13
  you know? What's gorgeous is Matthew
• 25:15
  Jacobs, who wrote the movie, went to a convention in America
• 25:19
  and they screened the gunfires with his dad on, on like a
• 25:21
  cinema screen, which is a lovely thing.
• 25:24
  Oh, look at the doctor. Look, he's got that massive
• 25:26
  wanted poster. I, I will.
• 25:29
  I will say, going back to your point about it sort of not being
• 25:33
  very accurate, which so I'm not sort of, I'm not sort of super
• 25:38
  up on my Wild West history, but I think this gets away with it
• 25:42
  as well. I mean, first of all, Doctor Who
• 25:43
  doesn't have to be very accurate because, you know, this is
• 25:46
  mostly history that people weren't being taught about.
• 25:48
  So they kind of get a bit of a license to do whatever they
• 25:50
  want. But for me, this feels more like
• 25:52
  the myth makers, where there is so much about the Wild West that
• 25:57
  is all legends and myths and things that are made-up and
• 26:02
  passed down. And even though it happened, it
• 26:04
  never happens like you're told that it happens.
• 26:06
  And I think it's quite nice because, yeah, Donald Cotton is
• 26:10
  then sort of given more free rein to just do whatever he
• 26:15
  wants with it. There are some stories where
• 26:18
  they they clearly. But I mean, John Lucarotti is
• 26:19
  clearly a man who likes to put a very accurate version of history
• 26:22
  across. And I respect it and it's nice.
• 26:25
  And I'll tell you my love for the massacre wants help with a
• 26:29
  question on University Challenge.
• 26:30
  So don't ever say doctor. It's not practical in in the in
• 26:34
  the recent series that's airing probably a couple weeks before
• 26:36
  Christmas. And but I'm over Rajan asking
• 26:39
  about a massacre in in France of the the the Catholics by the
• 26:43
  Hugodos or is it the Hugodos by the Catholics?
• 26:45
  I can't I can't remember. He's like hell on fell on the
• 26:49
  eve of what Saints day. Straight away I was like, say
• 26:52
  both all of you. Doctor Who fan and you would
• 26:56
  know it. It's the only question I know
• 26:58
  the answer to. Let's see if I'll see the extra
• 27:00
  that they're like, how the how the fuck do you know that it's
• 27:02
  like Doctor Who, my friend, Doctor Who.
• 27:05
  Basically, you know, from the 1st 30 years of my life, any
• 27:08
  history I knew was poorly related to me via Doctor Who.
• 27:13
  It's quite sad. Did you send me extras?
• 27:15
  It was that Now. That's quite a lot for Doctor
• 27:18
  Who. There was about 30 people there
• 27:19
  a minute ago. Here we go.
• 27:23
  Yes, here we go. The dangers sort of coming in
• 27:24
  now. Stephen's going to be lynched.
• 27:27
  Rope him. Oh, he's his fan ripped off as
• 27:29
  well do. You know, what I love is this is
• 27:32
  the song playing over Hartnell reacting to all of this.
• 27:35
  At the end of the episode, he's sort of like tapping his face.
• 27:37
  And they go, oh God, Oh dear, what do I do?
• 27:42
  Stephen might get lynched. I don't know what to do.
• 27:46
  Look at this Dodo's in bed with Doc Holiday.
• 27:48
  What's going on? I think again, there's a sort of
• 27:53
  I don't want, I don't want to rag on on new stuff all the time
• 27:57
  because there's a lot of it that I I like and I think I've tried
• 28:00
  to adore. It I don't want the bulk of it,
• 28:02
  yeah. But like there's if if a
• 28:05
  companion, I mean, that's a gorgeous shot as well.
• 28:08
  Sorry, through the lace curtains there and the way that street is
• 28:12
  lit is very nice. And again, a copy of a sort of
• 28:14
  real horse going to the studio. Well.
• 28:16
  That elephant in the ark, isn't it?
• 28:18
  Like what are you doing? But I think if there was, I
• 28:21
  don't know if I was watching, let's just go for the new, the
• 28:24
  newer series, you know, as comparison, if if there was an
• 28:27
  episode midway through series 1 where Ruby was, you know, tied
• 28:32
  up and stuck at a hoax and she was led off to be lose, I I
• 28:36
  wouldn't feel anything. And actually we talked about it
• 28:39
  on the podcast where they have they did a couple times, like in
• 28:42
  boom, they do, they do Ruby's dead be it.
• 28:45
  But you never feel it because I just don't have any doubt that
• 28:48
  the Doctor is just going to swing, swing, swing in and off,
• 28:52
  you know, stage left on a rope and kick the horse out from
• 28:55
  under and save Ruby. Whereas there's there's a little
• 28:58
  edge to the first Doctor where I'm kind of like, you know, that
• 29:01
  he might let Stephen just get lynched.
• 29:04
  That'll teach you a lesson, my boy, about meddling in history.
• 29:08
  OK, he let yeah, he lets the massacre happen and feels so
• 29:12
  you. Know.
• 29:14
  Come on, my boy, let's get out of here.
• 29:16
  They're about to be murdered. Walks down to an apothecary,
• 29:20
  disappears to us. So I think God's back and it's
• 29:21
  just like, right, By the way, yeah, we got to leave.
• 29:23
  Everyone's got to die. I just realised where we are.
• 29:27
  Religious war. Let's go.
• 29:29
  Kenny institutes the best secure at the end of the myth makers
• 29:32
  He's he's he's bloodthirsty I. Do love it though, like at the
• 29:36
  end of this right where the camera is on him for ages.
• 29:39
  I love these 60s cliffhangers where they forced to keep acting
• 29:43
  to camera whilst the titles come up, but Hartnell's so good at
• 29:48
  it. There's like an intelligence
• 29:50
  behind his eyes. You can see he's really
• 29:51
  thinking. Yeah, his face, his face acting
• 29:56
  is genuinely very good. And I do I do love the the title
• 30:00
  coming up over the action and I kind of miss it.
• 30:03
  I still think individual named episodes was always more
• 30:06
  interesting than. Oh, definitely.
• 30:09
  Yeah. What?
• 30:09
  What was the first thing they did when they stopped doing
• 30:12
  that? The Savages Part 1 to four.
• 30:15
  I mean, come on. Oh, looks like we're being
• 30:18
  promised Johnny Ringo in the next episode.
• 30:21
  I want to say, you know, Elliot, it's quite hot, the Johnny Ringo
• 30:25
  here. Well, I'll try not to make any
• 30:27
  more Ringo Star jokes. Please, please, do you sing a
• 30:32
  few songs? Actually, you know Shane Rimmer
• 30:37
  well, what an intriguing name. I shall go any further than
• 30:39
  that. I know it says there was William
• 30:41
  Herndel as well, which sounds like a portmanteau of Richard
• 30:43
  Herndel and. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:46
  So. I think, I think if you sort of
• 30:48
  mix the two together, you basically get David Bradley, how
• 30:52
  many first doctors are there now?
• 30:53
  I mean, I'm losing count. Stephen Noonan from Big Finish.
• 30:57
  None of them was good either. No.
• 30:59
  Well, no. Mostly because, and not even
• 31:01
  necessarily because the performances, but mostly because
• 31:04
  I'm this is a criticism I had to Stephen Moffat for a long time.
• 31:07
  And it's still a criticism I have to Stephen Moffat.
• 31:08
  But it's also a criticism I have of, of, you know, John Nathan
• 31:12
  Turner is that I used to be like how they they paint the 1st
• 31:15
  doctor in a really negative light.
• 31:18
  But I think that a lot of the the incorrect attitudes about
• 31:22
  the first doctor is all taken from the five Doctors where he's
• 31:25
  also given the incorrect attitudes there.
• 31:27
  He sits down and demands sandwiches off Tegan.
• 31:30
  And you know, I think do. You know what?
• 31:33
  In Twice Upon a Time, I found that so annoying that they
• 31:38
  painted him as a sexist. Because you go and watch the
• 31:40
  60s. Yeah, there's no point in the
• 31:42
  60s. He's paternal, he's
• 31:44
  grandfatherly, He's never sexist.
• 31:47
  Not. Once I think people mistake he's
• 31:50
  I think people mistake his anger for like they, they, I think
• 31:54
  they, they, they see that he can be angry and they kind of
• 31:56
  mistake it for, like I said, this kind of entitled misogyny.
• 32:00
  And I think people do take his grandfather leanness and also
• 32:04
  interpret it as being sexist. But like he calls 'cause
• 32:07
  everybody my child, he's not, you know, and I know out of
• 32:10
  context it can seem patronizing if he's walking up to Vicki and
• 32:14
  being like, Oh yeah, yes, yeah, come along child.
• 32:16
  But he called Stephen my boy. He's very, it's just he's older
• 32:20
  than everybody else. So he treats them like children.
• 32:22
  And a lot of those companions also meant to be children as
• 32:24
  well. Like Vicki's only young the.
• 32:26
  Relationship you got to look at is him and Barbara right And
• 32:30
  Barbara don't put up with any of his and it doesn't really call
• 32:33
  her my child. He is a very respect and every
• 32:35
  time he pushes it like an edge of destruction, you know, she
• 32:38
  turns around and she goes you stupid old man.
• 32:40
  You know, you know what I mean. She literally she she is gives
• 32:44
  as good as she get and he respects her for that.
• 32:47
  That being in the Aztecs, that fight they have in the temple
• 32:51
  where you know he's lived with versus you've got to let this
• 32:54
  happen. And then after she, she stops it
• 32:56
  from happening, he's so furious and and then he sees how upset
• 33:00
  she is and he comes for her. I just, I just think it is a a
• 33:04
  bizarre misinterpretation. And it gives them such a lovely,
• 33:08
  again, not to, not to go back to how much I love the chase, but
• 33:11
  it gives them such a lovely relationship because I do at the
• 33:14
  start of the chase when they're sunbathing on that beach
• 33:16
  together and he's, he's got his little hat and they're just,
• 33:19
  they're just enjoying the sunshine.
• 33:21
  Doctor, what's that awful noise? Awful noise.
• 33:24
  There's no way to talk about my singing.
• 33:27
  They're just glorious. Yeah, and I say, I think it
• 33:30
  might have started. I know people like the Five
• 33:31
  Doctors, but I think it might have started there where a lot
• 33:34
  of people that was maybe their first proper taste of the 1st
• 33:38
  Doctor. And yeah, it's a man who sits at
• 33:41
  a Wicker chair and demands sandwiches off.
• 33:43
  And, you know, that's Terence Dixie's to blame for that
• 33:47
  interpretation because he wrote that script.
• 33:49
  So, you know, Moffett's looking to that and I suppose lovely
• 33:54
  Uncle Terence that everybody Lords who I believe could be a
• 33:57
  bit of a sexist card, you know, on the side.
• 34:00
  What's that famous quote of his? I think the girl should be
• 34:03
  strapped in a railroad tracks, you know, and screaming like
• 34:06
  Faye Wright is very old fashioned.
• 34:09
  That's one thing the new series has got very right.
• 34:12
  Oh, absolutely Yeah. Absolutely.
• 34:14
  Lovely, lovely, sexist old Uncle Terry.
• 34:18
  The ambassador for the show. Well, look, we've done 2
• 34:22
  delightful episodes of the Gunfires.
• 34:24
  There is more because I have more questions about the era for
• 34:27
  you in three and four. Should we go and skip into
• 34:29
  those? Yeah, absolutely.