Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Chat with Cheryl: Birth Order - Does it matter? | Ep. 158

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Chat with Cheryl: Birth Order - Does it matter? | Ep. 158 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  I've looked at my kids more than once and thought, how did they all come from the same family?
• 0:14
  The same two parents and yet be so different.
• 0:19
  Maybe you've wondered that too.
• 0:21
  Birth order is one of those things we hear about all the time, but does it really shape our kids or is it just a stereotype?
• 0:32
  Chris's in the studio with me today and we're unpacking a little bit about birth order, the patterns we see, the roles our kids fall into.
• 0:42
  And what it means for how we parent.
• 0:45
  This is the Parenting Podcast, and I'm Cheryl Lang.
• 0:49
  I'm glad you're here.
• 0:51
  Let's get into it.
• 1:01
  Cheryl: The other day I was watching a young family and I was watching the interaction and I could tell from their physical sites who was what age.
• 1:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:11
  Cheryl: But Christie, made me start thinking about, um, birth order and I don't know, we've ever even talked about it very much on here, Uhhuh.
• 1:20
  Cheryl: And.
• 1:21
  Cheryl: I don't know about you.
• 1:22
  Cheryl: It just seems like something so arbitrary,.
• 1:24
  Cheryl: But the actual impact that it has Woo woo odd.
• 1:29
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:31
  Christie: Uh, yeah.
• 1:32
  Christie: That's so funny.
• 1:32
  Christie: I was actually chatting with the barista the other day and she was telling me a story about her family and, and I said, wait.
• 1:38
  Christie: Are you the first born?
• 1:39
  Christie: Because I could just tell the way she was telling the story as a firstborn girl and having a firstborn girl knowing the telltale signs.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: It is interesting Christie, and because I thought we could talk about it, I wondered are we stereotyping people?
• 1:57
  Cheryl: Our children like your barista.
• 2:00
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:00
  Cheryl: So I looked up to see what the studies and child development experts say and there actually agreeing with us there really is, in general a very identifiable pattern to where children come in, the family involving their character traits and how people tend to interact with them and so forth.
• 2:20
  Christie: Yeah..
• 2:20
  Christie: I mean, I think.
• 2:21
  Christie: As many families as you and I have known and been around and seen some of it is just undeniable.
• 2:27
  Christie: I mean, I'm glad that to know there is science to back it up, but you didn't even need to convince me.
• 2:33
  Cheryl: No.
• 2:33
  Cheryl: I just thought we'd talk about birth order since it is identifiable Mm-hmm.
• 2:38
  Cheryl: But we don't want to, ignore the individuality, right.
• 2:41
  Cheryl: Of certain circumstances or our children.
• 2:43
  Cheryl: And there's always exceptions.
• 2:45
  Cheryl: for sure! And also, we don't wanna put anybody in a box, right?
• 2:49
  Cheryl: So listeners, when we're talking we don't want to label or overgeneralize we just want to, uh, explore it a little bit.
• 2:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:56
  Cheryl: And then see how does it.
• 2:58
  Cheryl: Interact in our families and maybe impact our parenting.
• 3:01
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:02
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:02
  Christie: Because it's, it's probably one of the biggest factors that is widespread affecting families across the board.
• 3:11
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:11
  Cheryl: 'cause you can't change it.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: You know, it's just a given.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: Not being rigid or saying this applies to everybody.
• 3:19
  Cheryl: How about if I just quickly summarize sort of what the studies reflect related to birth order?
• 3:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:25
  Cheryl: First borns tend to be seen as responsible, organized achievements really important to them.
• 3:33
  Cheryl: They tend to take on a lot, but they also feel a lot of pressure to make that example, and parents have a lot of expectations.
• 3:43
  Cheryl: And depend on them a lot.
• 3:45
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:46
  Cheryl: Then the middles are often described as being adaptable, social diplomatic, because they're always in between factions, trying to work things out.
• 3:55
  Cheryl: right.
• 3:56
  Cheryl: They have good relational skills, but may feel overlooked and struggle with getting their own identity as special outside of the siblings.
• 4:05
  Cheryl: And then the youngest or the baby, and this doesn't matter how big your family is, they're more carefree and social.
• 4:13
  Cheryl: They're often attention seeking And they may also be seen as less responsible.
• 4:19
  Cheryl: They can develop strong charm and people skills, but they struggle with being, taking seriously for their accomplishments.
• 4:27
  Christie: Um, yeah.
• 4:28
  Christie: It's interesting when you and I were chatting about.
• 4:31
  Christie: This topic, I was visiting with a friend who was a, a decades long school teacher, elementary in the classroom.
• 4:38
  Christie: And I said, yeah, tell me what your observations have been as a teacher in the classroom, and are you able to kind of see what birth order they are?
• 4:47
  Christie: Like if you didn't know?
• 4:48
  Christie: And she said, oh, yes.
• 4:50
  Christie: She said, every, every year your class is made up of a different combination.
• 4:55
  Christie: Of Wow.
• 4:56
  Christie: Different birth orders.
• 4:57
  Christie: And you can tell the, the firstborns are typically the ones that take charge in the classroom and wanna get everything done just right.
• 5:03
  Christie: Yep.
• 5:03
  Christie: And then, you know, the babies of the family are like, is this gonna be on the test?
• 5:07
  Christie: Is this for
• 5:08
  Cheryl: grade?
• 5:09
  Cheryl: Have to, do I have to turn that in?
• 5:09
  Cheryl: This, oh, is that due on Thursday?
• 5:11
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:12
  Christie: And it's just, yeah, in every aspect of life, we are what we are.
• 5:16
  Cheryl: Isn't that interesting?
• 5:17
  Cheryl: And I, I bet if we talk to managers in business and coaches mm-hmm.
• 5:22
  Cheryl: If.
• 5:22
  Cheryl: The people that they supervise, I just had never thought about this to say like, maybe she says, well, this year we have a.
• 5:30
  Cheryl: Unusual number, firstborns.
• 5:32
  Cheryl: Right?
• 5:33
  Cheryl: So the whole classroom is more organized and, uh, task oriented.
• 5:37
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 5:38
  Cheryl: And have plenty of people who want to go up first, you know, versus a year where we mentioned like the babies, right?
• 5:45
  Cheryl: That nobody volunteers.
• 5:47
  Cheryl: Uh, everybody's there for the ride.
• 5:48
  Cheryl: Well,
• 5:49
  Christie: yeah.
• 5:49
  Christie: You mentioned employers, you know, they always.
• 5:52
  Christie: Often now have like personality intakes.
• 5:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:55
  Christie: And, and assessments that they'll have you do.
• 5:57
  Christie: Maybe people should start asking about birth order and start balancing their staffs a little more.
• 6:03
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:03
  Cheryl: I wonder, so anybody out there, if you're in HR and you do it, I'd like to hear we're onto
• 6:08
  Christie: something
• 6:09
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 6:09
  Cheryl: So everybody has to have a firstborn if you're a parent.
• 6:12
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:13
  Cheryl: Somebody's gonna be first.
• 6:14
  Cheryl: You've said you were first born.
• 6:15
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Cheryl: So how did that play out in your life did you see that you were a
• 6:20
  Christie: typical first born in your childhood?
• 6:22
  Christie: For the most part, I mean, I definitely have some of the traits in a huge way.
• 6:25
  Christie: The re-taking responsibility for others, like for my sibling.
• 6:29
  Christie: Oh, not just for yourself, right?
• 6:31
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 6:31
  Christie: Yes.
• 6:32
  Christie: And Yeah.
• 6:33
  Christie: For my siblings and then the people pleasing rule following.
• 6:38
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 6:38
  Christie: What, what is the right way to do this?
• 6:40
  Christie: That's the way I wanna at least strive to do things.
• 6:44
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:44
  Cheryl: And, and people pleasing, not like relational people pleasing, but achievement pleasing.
• 6:49
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:49
  Cheryl: What did you say to do?
• 6:50
  Cheryl: Do I need to turn this in?
• 6:52
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 6:52
  Cheryl: You know, my bed is made this morning.
• 6:54
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:55
  Cheryl: For
• 6:55
  Christie: sure.
• 6:56
  Cheryl: and then telling the little siblings what to do I that responsibility, sort of a mini parent.
• 7:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:02
  Cheryl: Am INI mm-hmm.
• 7:03
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:03
  Cheryl: Parent that it's kind of their responsibility to tell all the little ones what to do or whatever age they are.
• 7:10
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Cheryl: They might be 16 or 25.
• 7:12
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:13
  Cheryl: But tell the their younger siblings what to do and how to do it, and.
• 7:17
  Cheryl: A lot of times where they failed Sure.
• 7:19
  Cheryl: Exactly what they thought about everything they did.
• 7:22
  Christie: Yes.
• 7:22
  Christie: Lots of opinions on everyone else's lives.
• 7:26
  Cheryl: then that's what you were as a child.
• 7:28
  Cheryl: How do you think it affected your parenting?
• 7:31
  Christie: Oh, as a firstborn.
• 7:33
  Christie: Well, I think I didn't understand my other kids' positions as well as I uhhuh as I did my first born Oh, Uhhuh.
• 7:41
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:41
  Christie: So that a lot of their views their experiences and perceptions in life were a stretch for me to even get my head around.
• 7:51
  Christie: Oh.
• 7:51
  Christie: Um, so I had expectations of them probably in different ways.
• 7:56
  Christie: You
• 7:56
  Cheryl: know, I wonder, I always think, oh, it'd be so much fun to have a couple doctorates and you could do research.
• 8:02
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 8:03
  Cheryl: I know on my own life, I, I don't wanna have to do all the work, but I think it would be interesting to find out Yes.
• 8:07
  Cheryl: Like what you were just saying.
• 8:09
  Cheryl: I wonder.
• 8:10
  Cheryl: If firstborns have a little bit more trouble thinking about how other people perceive, like, putting themself, in their shoes.
• 8:18
  Christie: right?
• 8:19
  Christie: Because
• 8:19
  Cheryl: they're coming from one viewpoint where if you're in the middle or the end, you might take more into account about how the others interact and so forth, right?
• 8:28
  Cheryl: Instead of it being more of a one direction.
• 8:30
  Cheryl: I don't know.
• 8:32
  Cheryl: Just wondering.
• 8:33
  Cheryl: Well
• 8:33
  Christie: specifically if you're a firstborn, because your firstborn is your firstborn.
• 8:40
  Christie: So you're first born raising a firstborn.
• 8:42
  Christie: Well then when the second born comes and things are different, ah, you know, things only confirmed.
• 8:48
  Christie: What you thought was you knew to be true was the first one.
• 8:52
  Christie: And then the second one comes, you're like.
• 8:53
  Christie: Oh, things are changing.
• 8:55
  Christie: Oh, there's something else.
• 8:56
  Christie: Uhhuh.
• 8:57
  Christie: Oh, that's interesting because I did notice that I, all the things I would try with my second daughter that had worked with my first daughter, uh, and now no longer worked and I had to have, have a new strategy.
• 9:08
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Cheryl: I'm a mixture because I was the second of four.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: But I was the first girl.
• 9:14
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 9:15
  Cheryl: And I was definitely the responsible girl.
• 9:17
  Christie: Uhhuh.
• 9:18
  Cheryl: My brother didn't lead in a typical first born fashion, and so I did that kind of leading.
• 9:24
  Cheryl: I was very responsible, but second born I was very relational.
• 9:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 9:29
  Cheryl: Uh, people pleasing, mm-hmm.
• 9:32
  Cheryl: But a, a different.
• 9:33
  Cheryl: Aspects.
• 9:34
  Cheryl: I wasn't kind of the ruling firstborn, but kind of use those skills.
• 9:40
  Cheryl: Um, so I see myself as a mixture of both of those.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:43
  Cheryl: And then I will say that I brought that into my parenting because, I enjoy things being organized and taken care of like a firstborn mm-hmm.
• 9:51
  Cheryl: But way heavy on relationship and, uh, taking everything personally in my parenting.
• 9:57
  Christie: Right.
• 9:58
  Cheryl: I just didn't know that birth order mattered.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: Christie, I never heard.
• 10:03
  Cheryl: Anyone talk about it until, like, the first book I know of came out, ah, I think in the nineties.
• 10:10
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 10:10
  Cheryl: And then everybody started talking about it, you know, of course we didn't have the internet.
• 10:14
  Cheryl: We didn't have podcasts, right?
• 10:16
  Cheryl: oh, I didn't know that.
• 10:17
  Cheryl: And i had never.
• 10:18
  Cheryl: Considered birth order and then look at my family and go, oh, I can clearly see what he's saying.
• 10:23
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:24
  Christie: And I had my first child in nine nine, and I mean, it was, it was something I've always heard of and see known about in parenting.
• 10:31
  Christie: But I mean, it's kind of like.
• 10:33
  Christie: On the job training.
• 10:34
  Christie: You know, you're, yeah, absolutely.
• 10:36
  Christie: You're just trying to figure things out.
• 10:37
  Christie: So I don't know that I felt fully equipped to understand what people were talking about in the midst of it.
• 10:42
  Cheryl: I
• 10:42
  Christie: remember my youngest daughter being pushed around in a baby doll, baby stroller as an infant, you know, like as a maybe six or seven months old.
• 10:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:52
  Christie: She was wedged into this little baby, Karen.
• 10:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:54
  Christie: She was just a baby doll that my older girls played with as though she was a toy,
• 10:59
  Cheryl: and then they complain, right?
• 11:01
  Cheryl: Oh, you gave them everything.
• 11:02
  Cheryl: Uhhuh, you know, we've talked about it before.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: Just financially and actual time, a lot of parents are in a position with that baby where they have more money or more time to invest in that last one.
• 11:15
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:15
  Cheryl: Which, you know, that sometimes affects the family dynamics because there may be resentment.
• 11:21
  Christie: Right.
• 11:21
  Christie: Well, and you know, my oldest.
• 11:23
  Christie: It's stereotypical, the firstborn gets the photo albums and the monogrammed everything, and everything's, you know.
• 11:32
  Christie: Done to the nth degree.
• 11:33
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Christie: And then my youngest is like, I think we have photos on Amazon, photos, you know, baby, we'll have to scrape'em up somewhere.
• 11:40
  Christie: And I always joke and say, you know, she may have got the baby books, but you got the better parent because I learned a few things in the process.
• 11:48
  Christie: And you just learn what matters, what doesn't, and what to.
• 11:52
  Christie: Really focus on Well,
• 11:54
  Cheryl: that's what I'd kind of like to dive into so what would we bring into this for parents instead of just saying, oh, this is a factoid, but I think it matters mm-hmm.
• 12:03
  Cheryl: And, a concern I have,'cause I know I did it and I've apologized about it.
• 12:08
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:09
  Cheryl: My first born.
• 12:10
  Cheryl: That I just gave so much responsibility.
• 12:13
  Cheryl: And like we're talking about taking care of the little ones.
• 12:15
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 12:16
  Cheryl: Um, whether they liked it naturally or not, I just, it's, they're the tallest, right.
• 12:22
  Cheryl: The most
• 12:23
  Christie: capable.
• 12:23
  Christie: Right.
• 12:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: You can actually stand on a stool on the counter and make sandwiches while I'm taking care of everything else.
• 12:31
  Cheryl: All of that.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 12:33
  Cheryl: You know, again, is it nurture and nature?
• 12:36
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:36
  Christie: Well, and I remember thinking it, even in the moment knowing, you know, okay, I need somebody to bring me a diaper.
• 12:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 12:43
  Christie: And this one is able, but this one will do it faster.
• 12:47
  Christie: Ah.
• 12:47
  Christie: And you know, the oldest was able to do it at four, and she did it at four.
• 12:51
  Christie: So why wouldn't I ask the 4-year-old?
• 12:53
  Christie: Well, because the, the 8-year-old can do it like more easily, you know?
• 12:57
  Cheryl: And, so what I would speak into this if I were talking to me.
• 13:01
  Cheryl: Or us, back then, to say, just be aware of it.
• 13:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:05
  Cheryl: And be careful.
• 13:06
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 13:06
  Cheryl: And maybe bring in the, like we say, with freedom and privilege, come responsibility.
• 13:11
  Cheryl: That if we're giving them more responsibility, that we're also building in privileges.
• 13:17
  Cheryl: And dignity Yeah.
• 13:19
  Cheryl: That you're older, so you get to maybe stay up later or you get to do extra things.
• 13:25
  Cheryl: Don't just say, because you're older, you have these 10 more responsibilities, but because you're older, we also want to honor that.
• 13:33
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:33
  Cheryl: And give you freedom that the younger ones don't get.
• 13:36
  Christie: Right.
• 13:37
  Christie: And And let them be a kid.
• 13:38
  Christie: Yes.
• 13:39
  Christie: Not rush into being responsible and mature I saw a meme one time, I think my daughter actually sent it to me.
• 13:44
  Christie: It said you might wait.
• 13:46
  Christie: Your oldest daughter.
• 13:46
  Christie: Yes.
• 13:47
  Christie: It said, uh.
• 13:48
  Christie: Hey, all of you firstborn girls that were told you were quote unquote mature for your age, how's counseling going?
• 13:55
  Christie: Because that's really the life of the firstborn and not just girls.
• 13:58
  Christie: I speak for girls because I am one, but I'm sure boys feel that way too.
• 14:03
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:03
  Christie: But,
• 14:03
  Cheryl: and so it's appropriate, that's where God put them in the family.
• 14:07
  Cheryl: They're kind of designed for it, but just to be cautious and sensitive to it.
• 14:12
  Cheryl: And intentionally appreciative.
• 14:14
  Cheryl: And then I also would say one of the things, um, like you're talking about how you were so responsible for your siblings mm-hmm.
• 14:23
  Cheryl: And you carry that through your life.
• 14:26
  Cheryl: That I think I would be very careful to speak to the parents and then also to the firstborn, even though they have.
• 14:33
  Cheryl: actual responsibilities that are different because they're older, to not make them feel they're carrying the burden.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:41
  Cheryl: Of raising the young ones or the burden for their misconduct.
• 14:45
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:45
  Cheryl: Or the fact that they weren't sitting down when you told everybody to sit down and your firstborn sat down and the others didn't.
• 14:52
  Cheryl: I, I'm just saying it's really easy.
• 14:54
  Cheryl: Sometimes I will say, particularly in single parenting.
• 14:59
  Cheryl: Or other circumstances to kinda co-parent a little bit.
• 15:04
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 15:04
  Cheryl: With that firstborn.
• 15:06
  Cheryl: And give them more responsibility or burden than they should
• 15:08
  Christie: have, right?
• 15:09
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:09
  Christie: Somewhere along the way.
• 15:11
  Christie: Um, I got the idea from something that was to play to their strengths and weaknesses.
• 15:18
  Christie: Uhhuh, instead of just age order very good and, you know, birth order.
• 15:22
  Christie: And I'm thankful for that little, I didn't always apply it, but hey, you know.
• 15:27
  Christie: Second born, you are really good at organization.
• 15:29
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Christie: Would you take on this task for me?
• 15:32
  Christie: Good.
• 15:32
  Christie: And, and highlight why you're asking that of them instead of, you know, just taking, like I said, the easiest way out.
• 15:39
  Cheryl: and I would say along that line That you affirm effort and character, rather than achievement.
• 15:44
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:44
  Cheryl: And we don't link character to achievement.
• 15:47
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:48
  Cheryl: We don't want that to be their identity
• 15:50
  Christie: right?
• 15:51
  Christie: well, and really that applies to all of them because I know, I mean, as we, when we talk about the middle child or second, third.
• 15:59
  Christie: So there's that need to compete for attention Yes.
• 16:02
  Christie: Is kind of stereotypical of the middle child.
• 16:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Christie: And so when we are praising their achievements, they're gonna be hungry for more and just fight for that attention.
• 16:14
  Christie: And, you know, we wanna make sure that we're praising the efforts there too.
• 16:17
  Cheryl: Like again, and it's really hard when you're living in the shadow.
• 16:21
  Cheryl: mm-hmm.
• 16:21
  Cheryl: And, and I think I can see it.
• 16:23
  Cheryl: in my birth family and others, where the second and thirds chose really different, uh, life patterns or conduct.
• 16:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:32
  Cheryl: Or even academically.
• 16:34
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:34
  Cheryl: They went on a different route because they go, there's no way I'm not gonna compete with that Right, with the achievement of that firstborn and.
• 16:43
  Cheryl: I don't know how much we can affect it.
• 16:45
  Cheryl: I just think we ought to fight.
• 16:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:48
  Cheryl: For that healthiness in there in all ways.
• 16:50
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:50
  Cheryl: Like you're saying, affirm everybody, uh, if you have to separately and not make it achievement oriented.
• 16:57
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:58
  Cheryl: But effort and character oriented.
• 17:00
  Christie: Right.
• 17:00
  Christie: And with the.
• 17:01
  Christie: Middle children or second born specifically, I think calling out their specific individuality Yes.
• 17:09
  Christie: And shining on the things that you see about them that are unique.
• 17:13
  Christie: Yes.
• 17:14
  Christie: Um, can help encourage that.
• 17:15
  Christie: You know, I, I remember when i just had the first two, both girls, and you know, when something comes in a two pack, the oldest one who could speak her opinion got to pick, and then the baby got the leftover.
• 17:29
  Christie: And I remember a lot of times it would be like a pink one and a blue one.
• 17:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:32
  Christie: You know, a cup or toothbrush or whatever.
• 17:34
  Christie: And I thought, gosh, is this gonna be, you know.
• 17:37
  Christie: The oldest one always picks the pink, so now she just gets the blue and, and then it turned out her favorite color was blue later on.
• 17:43
  Christie: I'm like, was that because she just got the leftover and overthought all of that?
• 17:48
  Christie: and
• 17:48
  Cheryl: we don't want this to be overthinking.
• 17:50
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:50
  Cheryl: Just consideration and I like the mixing it up where firstborn doesn't just get to choose all the time.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: Everything's not in that order.
• 17:58
  Cheryl: Or it's not flipped.
• 18:00
  Cheryl: Oh, let the baby go first.
• 18:02
  Cheryl: Right, That's possible too.
• 18:03
  Cheryl: 'cause we haven't talked about the youngest, the babies.
• 18:05
  Cheryl: Uhhuh.
• 18:05
  Cheryl: We have to be really careful not to baby them.
• 18:08
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 18:08
  Cheryl: And it is hard, a lot of times, you know, when particularly it's, if it's the last in your family and if kind of wanna hold on that where the first one using this phrase, you know.
• 18:22
  Cheryl: Come on.
• 18:22
  Cheryl: You are five years old.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: That's your first one.
• 18:25
  Cheryl: Uhhuh.
• 18:25
  Cheryl: Come on.
• 18:26
  Cheryl: A 5-year-old.
• 18:26
  Cheryl: You're five.
• 18:28
  Cheryl: And then your baby gets in and you go, well, they're only five.
• 18:30
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:31
  Cheryl: Look at that.
• 18:32
  Cheryl: It's so true.
• 18:33
  Cheryl: We want to be so careful to be aware of it.
• 18:35
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 18:36
  Cheryl: to try to bring balance into it.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: Because awareness can help bring balance, right?
• 18:42
  Cheryl: Even though it's still messy, there's there's not a one answer to fix this.
• 18:46
  Christie: Right.
• 18:46
  Christie: And sometimes it's not out of like babying them, it's just out of pure exhaustion.
• 18:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:51
  Christie: I mean, if you've been at this parenting gig for a while, you start getting weary and.
• 18:55
  Christie: You're like, I am still making the same decisions 20 years in, you know, you're ready to, well, I just take the easy route.
• 19:02
  Cheryl: I remembered it myself.
• 19:04
  Cheryl: And then there's somebody who the baby is a preschooler now, and she said.
• 19:09
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 19:11
  Cheryl: You know I have to play chutes and ladders.
• 19:14
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:14
  Cheryl: With this one.
• 19:15
  Cheryl: Oh, that's right.
• 19:16
  Cheryl: I have to read Go Dog Go and Cat and the Hat to this one, just because I did it to the other one.
• 19:23
  Cheryl: It doesn't work like that.
• 19:25
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:26
  Cheryl: It doesn't just by default
• 19:27
  Christie: circle down.
• 19:28
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:28
  Cheryl: So.
• 19:29
  Cheryl: We always talk about margin not just margin in the day.
• 19:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:33
  Cheryl: But margin maybe over the long term that if we see ourselves pouring in too much, that we back off so we have the margin right to pour into each one appropriately.
• 19:45
  Cheryl: Instead of, like you're saying, I'm just so exhausted at
• 19:48
  Christie: just and going on autopilot.
• 19:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:49
  Christie: I, I'm thinking way back at the beginning of TPP when Dr.
• 19:54
  Christie: Stevens talked about birthday boxes.
• 19:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:56
  Christie: I think that can be a really great tool to fight against this.
• 19:59
  Christie: I did not do this well, I did.
• 20:02
  Christie: I was guilty of just getting tired and weary.
• 20:04
  Christie: But I think this is where it could be really helpful to have like family milestones of Yeah, your five-year-old birthday box.
• 20:11
  Christie: You get this.
• 20:12
  Christie: And I know a lot of families that do that so well and they're saying, you know, we go on a special trip on their 10th birthday, they have intentionality rather than, autopilot yes.
• 20:22
  Christie: You know, I was just talking about this with my youngest.
• 20:24
  Christie: Daughter the other day, she was like, yeah, everyone's always saying, did you read this book or you know, see this movie?
• 20:30
  Christie: And I'm like, I don't think I did.
• 20:31
  Christie: Well, it was because she was drug along with the older kids when she was maybe three.
• 20:38
  Christie: So she saw it but doesn't remember.
• 20:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:40
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:40
  Christie: Um, because we just kind of catered to the older Yes.
• 20:44
  Christie: Group.
• 20:44
  Christie: Well,
• 20:45
  Cheryl: and with music, with movies, yeah, with whatever you stream or tv, video games, we tend to keep playing.
• 20:53
  Cheryl: To the older rather than chutes and ladders.
• 20:56
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:57
  Cheryl: I'm not, shoot, and Ladders can't
• 20:58
  Christie: hang with, uh, Catan.
• 21:00
  Christie: Let's bring her on it.
• 21:02
  Cheryl: And so there are benefits.
• 21:04
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 21:04
  Cheryl: the last one's been around all the vocabulary and has learned from them, I mean, in our family.
• 21:09
  Cheryl: And I remember in Bill's family, his brother was two years older.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 21:14
  Cheryl: And so whatever his brother was learning, he learned.
• 21:16
  Cheryl: So his brother learned to read at six.
• 21:19
  Cheryl: So Bill wanted to learn to read at four.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: Oh, wow.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: So, so his mom started teaching him, I mean, the public school.
• 21:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Cheryl: But he said, I wanna learn to read.
• 21:26
  Cheryl: So he started learning to read at four whatever it was learning.
• 21:30
  Cheryl: To write all of it.
• 21:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: So, and I saw it in my home because realizing, oh wait, I have to teach'em colors.
• 21:39
  Cheryl: Older siblings, mom, they've known their colors for a year.
• 21:42
  Christie: Oh, that's funny.
• 21:43
  Christie: Oh,
• 21:43
  Cheryl: whoops.
• 21:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:44
  Cheryl: You know, there's there a lot of advantages to each age.
• 21:47
  Cheryl: That's what I wanna say.
• 21:48
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:48
  Cheryl: There's richness in each of them and you know, they can develop.
• 21:53
  Cheryl: Servanthood and qualities, you used the word intentionality.
• 21:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:57
  Cheryl: That's what I kind of wanted us to talk about today, is just be aware.
• 22:01
  Cheryl: Treasure each for the individual they are.
• 22:04
  Christie: Right.
• 22:04
  Christie: And it gives you, um, understanding too of their situation, their experiences in your family and life, their perspective, the way they're receiving from their parents and their siblings, when you're able to be mindful of what it's like in their shoes.
• 22:21
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:22
  Cheryl: And one of the things it's, it's so hard not to the fall into the trap again, that.
• 22:28
  Cheryl: The oldest one is the one that's kind of setting the standard.
• 22:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:32
  Cheryl: 'cause they're, you know, I had to brave all the new territory and Right.
• 22:36
  Cheryl: It is true they had to cut that way in the wilderness for everybody else, but they also got first privileges.
• 22:43
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:43
  Cheryl: And everything.
• 22:44
  Cheryl: And to be really careful not to demean the achievements or interest of the younger ones.
• 22:50
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:50
  Cheryl: Because sometimes like maybe at a family meal, the older ones as they're growing a little older and getting confidence that.
• 22:59
  Cheryl: What the younger ones are doing doesn't carry the weight of what they're doing.
• 23:02
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:03
  Cheryl: And so in the family dynamics as the parent to try to stay aware of it and mm-hmm.
• 23:09
  Cheryl: Keep in the conversation so that everybody is loved.
• 23:14
  Christie: Right.
• 23:15
  Christie: I remember something really helpful that you said to me one time about the youngest child and like I said, that was probably the hardest birth order for me to connect with and understand Uhhuh because I couldn't relate to them.
• 23:26
  Christie: But, um, you said you've gotta remember no matter what they achieve or are able to do, it's always like everyone else is doing Yeah.
• 23:37
  Christie: Calculus.
• 23:38
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:38
  Christie: And they're always doing simple additions.
• 23:40
  Christie: Yes.
• 23:41
  Christie: Because everyone is always going to be 10 steps ahead of them, no matter where they go in childhood Yes.
• 23:48
  Christie: And it was really insightful for me,
• 23:50
  Cheryl: oh yes, I've seen it, my family.
• 23:52
  Christie: And it carries on their adult
• 23:53
  Cheryl: life, uh, interesting to me.
• 23:56
  Cheryl: Full grown flourishing adults, and they still kind of have that view of their older sibling.
• 24:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:03
  Cheryl: Um, I don't know if the older sibling always feels that about the baby, but that I have seen that competition that they kind of wonder if they'll ever achieve.
• 24:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:14
  Cheryl: You know, I, it just, it's complicated, isn't it?
• 24:18
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:18
  Christie: Well, and the, the funny thing about all of this too, is.
• 24:24
  Christie: At this stage of my parenting.
• 24:25
  Christie: For me, it's actually also a huge comfort when I think about all the components in my kids' lives, because I am always quick.
• 24:34
  Christie: Anytime they make a comment about their childhood, I'm like, oh, you're right.
• 24:39
  Christie: It's probably because I didn't do this right.
• 24:40
  Christie: Me too.
• 24:41
  Christie: Oh, I felt it's probably you that like breastfeed long enough or it's because I didn't co-sleep or Yeah, you know, all the things that I overanalyze, but realizing there are other components in their life.
• 24:53
  Christie: Affecting their experiences.
• 24:55
  Christie: And it's not all up to me.
• 24:57
  Christie: It's not all about every decision I make and that at some point I have to open my hands and just say, Lord, whatever it is, it is.
• 25:04
  Christie: You know, I was faithful in, what I felt like I was to do in their upbringing, and there's other things I have to consider that might be going on
• 25:12
  Cheryl: here.
• 25:12
  Cheryl: That is excellent and I would agree with you, and I don't think it should be limited to specific topic, the whole thing we always talk about, don't take it personally.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:22
  Cheryl: But take your responsibility personally, and seek to repair what needs to be repaired.
• 25:27
  Cheryl: And then just try to love your family as well as you can.
• 25:30
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 25:31
  Cheryl: That's great.
• 25:32
  Cheryl: Thank you again.
• 25:33
  Cheryl: Oh, this was fun.
• 25:33
  Cheryl: I'm happy to be here.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: So parents, hang in there.
• 25:36
  Cheryl: Keep loving.
• 25:37
  Cheryl: Keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 25:45
  We can't change birth order, but we can change how we respond to it.
• 25:51
  When we step back and recognize the pressures, expectations, and unspoken roles our kids take on, we pair with more awareness or grace and deeper connection because at the end of the day, our kids don't just want to be the first born, the middle, the baby.
• 26:12
  They want to be seen, valued, and loved for who they truly are.
• 26:18
  So maybe this week is a chance to shift something even in a small way, giving your firstborn a break from always leading, making space for your middle child's voice.
• 26:30
  Or setting needed boundaries with the youngest small adjustments can make big impact.
• 26:37
  Keep paying attention, keep adjusting, and most of all, keep loving them for who they are.
• 26:45
  And remember, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 26:47
  Email me anytime at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 26:52
  Then let's stay connected on social media.
• 26:56
  Hey, I'm glad you're here.
• 26:58
  I'll see you next time.