Latest / GAIN Momentum / The Borderless Travel Segment and Pivoting to Digital Nomads | with Michael Cohen
Transcript
- GAIN Momentum episode #106: The Borderless Travel Segment and Pivoting to Digital Nomads | with Michael Cohen === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to another exciting episode of the GAIN Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in travel, hospitality, technology, and food and beverage. Today, we have our own Michael Cohen, and we're here to get an update on the Nomad Exec, where Michael right now is currently nomad execing it in Montenegro. Is that correct? Michael Cohen: Yeah. Hi, Adam. I'm in Nicic, Montenegro. I'm one of the fortunately selected nomad business leaders who the European Commission has chosen to be on a month-long expedition, really diving into Montenegro, Bosnia, Herzegovina, and the nomad experience in co-working, co-living, et cetera, within the region. Adam Mogelonsky: So let's take a step back and just give people some macro context to this, because you and I have been talking about digital nomadism and the nomad exec or nomad executive lifestyle for five years now, and it's literally hockey sticking as we speak. There's a huge opportunity for hotels, tour operators, travel and hotel technology companies, et cetera. It is that big of a macro trend, and in my mind, the fact that it's the EU-sponsored nomad exec lifestyle retreat or program speaks to the fact that people in major institutions are now recognizing this as a very important segment within travel. Michael Cohen: Yeah, and what's interesting, to be fair, this is a digital nomad program, but they selected a lot of senior people who have day-to-day responsibilities. So that's interesting. Not that digital nomads don't have responsibilities. It's a different perhaps level of intensity is a way to put it. And as we talked previously, and maybe other folks have heard some content from us, from myself about this, this is about work, lead, thrive anywhere. Work, lead, thrive anywhere. That lead component is what... That's one of the big differentiators. This is about mid to senior level men and women, different stages of their careers, corporate executives, independent, perhaps very successful, experienced freelancers, fair enough. But people who are running organizations, founders who are running scaling companies, corporate executives who want to be able to still have that upward trajectory in the corporate world, but they want to have a location independent lifestyle. Adam Mogelonsky: You know, that distinction between nomad executives and digital nomads, just to show a little bit more of the hockey stick, an interesting way to look at this for context is that if digital nomads are maybe younger people just starting off their careers or in early or mid-careers, eventually they grow up. Eventually they become senior managers and executives, and they carry that lifestyle forward with them into their more advanced years, let's say. Michael Cohen: Yeah, 100%. And what's nice is that the frameworks and the foundations, both technologically and now commercially, meaning in regards to corporate world, in regards to VCs having expectations of their founders, individuals who have decided that they want to maybe still maximize a certain last 20 years of their career, but they don't want to sacrifice the ability to have experiential added to their careers, experiential travel, slow travel, nomad executive type lifestyle. And what's really interesting on the GAIN side, so as some of you may know, I'm also a managing partner of GAIN, and Adam is one of the lead senior GAIN advisors, and this is the GAIN Momentum Podcast, so fair enough. But we're now engaged with a startup coming from a German startup funded, coming from the HR tech space, who has a platform to facilitate location independent lifestyles for corporate executives for major corporations around the world as an HR benefit, as a retention benefit, as an enhancement. So think about it. In the corporate world, so many legal requirements, human resource requirements, a lot of compliance, et cetera. So they're delivering that layer of compliance and so on for people like me. If I was in the corporate world working for AT&T as I did for many years as a senior executive, now I could potentially have this system within the HR department that I can still be an official employee of the company, and that happens now without this technology, but it streamlines the process. Just the fact that VCs are funding startups in the HR space who are looking to enable travel and location-independent opportunities for corporate or mid-sized businesses or founders and other people in startups, that's just another harbinger that this tsunami of change is here, right? People wouldn't be wasting cycles on HR and legal and everything else if this wasn't somewhat of a runaway train. Of course, it's going to build up momentum over the next five years, 10 years, but the Nomad Executive cohort is very attractive to what you mentioned, Adam, to the Airbnbs of the world, to the Expedias of the world, to the STR community in general. It is their dream. Longer stay, a little bit higher expendable or higher budgets, loyal because this is an ongoing cycle, two or three months here, two months here, three months here, as we talked about in previous conversations. So it's attracting a lot of interest from the travel and hospitality providers. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And, you know, I see this as the convergence of several trends that are intersecting in weird and beautiful ways. Where you mention that HR platform, and I see that as a way to reduce the friction towards setting up these programs. Simultaneously, I'm sure you know, senior executives in C-suite have said for five years since the pandemic or even before, saying, "Look, to retain our talent, we need to offer this as a service." The remote work, not just two weeks paid vacation and then you gotta be in the office. We want to enable this, the H word, hybrid. And concurrently, the destinations that benefit from this hybrid travel are the ones that, A, number one, they have good internet connections to facilitate the Zoom calls. Number two, they have the accommodation types. They have the places with the kitchens that can have the slow travel. They have the ability to enable travel and medical insurance. They have the Ubers for easy transit. They have good airports with good infrastructure and, you know, relatively safe and things like that. So it's the confluence of all these trends coming together that then enables that nomad exec lifestyle. And then that HR platform is just literally the cherry on top of the cake to make it complete, so it's this robust program where HR doesn't need to move mountains of paper in order to facilitate this at scale. Michael Cohen: Yeah, look, I mean, and also, it's very convenient and thank you for this platform, but I've been working with an industry leader who will be announced officially in two and a half weeks from this recording of this podcast, which will be-- I believe we're releasing this before HITEC, which we'll talk about HITEC, of course, super important in a moment. But it's called Borderless: The Nomad Executive Blueprint. And it's a culmination of me and others spending the last four to five years doing this full time. This is not an experiment, this is not a vacation, this is a business executive alternative, fair enough, lifestyle, an experiential lifestyle. So it's coming together in many different formats. So there's a book, there's my own experience. Other people are doing this. I meet them all the time. They didn't know they were a nomad executive perhaps, or they had a slightly different perspective on it. But then when we have a chat, they go, "Yeah, I see how I fit in this framework." It's all about frameworks because everybody wants to wake up in the morning feeling confident and being able to do their job or their career focus, but also have the ability to be with family, to fly in their kids, to do it as a family, as a moving expat lifestyle is also part of the trend. It's location independence, and that's part of this too. So the visas and all the financial and either there's some tax benefits and maybe some tax challenges, but that's all covered in Borderless: The Nomad Executive Blueprint. And I'm not just shilling, I'm just saying the book is important because I needed to write the book with this amazing partner and when people find out who it is, they're gonna see why. And also it just is a great platform for frankly what I'm doing and what I'm gonna be doing for the rest of my life and my career, and it's great to be able to share that. We're already talking to various locations around the world about a nomad executive conference, nomad executive experience once a year where three or four hundred people get together. You follow. It's very standard in regards to some of the coaching/dissemination of this framework and an opportuneer possibility. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, you know, I like you use the word framework, and of course I know that Michael Cohen is all about his frameworks. But a framework is not just a Michael Cohen thing. It actually, believe it or not, is a military thing, where you look at it and you look at the number one... One of the main rules of the military is that systems trump discipline, where if you have to remember every single day like, "Oh, I need to do this, I need to remember to do this, I need to do this, I need to do that," you're gonna fail. It's just too much on the mind. So you create a system or a framework around how you govern your life, and then everything just falls in place. So what I hear you say about Borderless is that it is a framework to make the nomad executive lifestyle as frictionless as possible and actually doable for a lot of people that, you know, are managing 10 Zoom calls a day, an overflowing inbox, actually spending time to do the deep work, families, friends, travel, and still wanting a moment to breathe. Michael Cohen: Yeah, and it's not for everybody, like anything is not for everybody. But for the people that it's for, why not create a platform, a framework, use the scar tissue and muscle memory of others, an experience that all of us have, all people who travel and people who-- You know, I'm not special and I didn't have some magical solution. It's more just about that this is my chosen lifestyle that many, many people in our, let's say, mid to senior level were very interested in and I felt that it was a good platform, again, to be able to share knowledge and streamline the process for others. And therefore, that's why it's been encouraging and very positive feedback that a lot of the travel and hospitality firms that deal with short-term rentals and travel optimization and AI-enabled itineraries and stuff, they're engaging with the Nomad Executive concept, and they're looking to get involved potentially in what we're doing with the book and the platform and the events. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and it's all growing organically, and if you look at a lot of other organic trends over the past 30 years that have impacted travel, because they grow organically, that tells you that this isn't just some fading thing. It's gonna keep hockey sticking, as I said before. Michael Cohen: Yeah, for sure. Great. Adam Mogelonsky: You mentioned before STRs, Airbnbs, short-term rentals. But of course, many of us work in the hotel industry, which, you know, is part of the accommodation sector. So how are hotel brands adapting to this trend, and are you able to cite by name any hotels that you feel are doing a good job? Michael Cohen: 100%, and I'll say this interestingly so that it's a very fair point, and we work in the hotel industry, so to all our hotel clients and GAIN clients, you know what I'm talking about. There's been a lot of interest in-- Well, there already is an extended stay play in the hotel business. It's there. It's not aligned as well with long-term versus extended stay. It's a little different. Extended stay is that there's a corporate executive and he has a three-month placement in Chicago and he lives in LA. Yeah, he stays in an extended stay hotel. So it is there. In my opinion, fully boiled is to take that and have it more open than just for corporate executives to have an extended stay. It's not communicated enough to independents, to founders, to maybe lower level people in businesses who would look at extended stay as part of the Nomad Executive portfolio, which I have done and I do. But I will say there's the response from independent hoteliers has been fantastic, so much so that we are in discussions with, and I'm happy to have further discussions with folks who may be listening to this podcast, to set up Nomad Executive in residency stays at particular hotels that have interesting amenities that are geared towards business people more than the tourist per se, and that they're in locations like we're talking to some people even in the Midwest and it's like Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is an incredible city that people don't really all know about how great it is in regards to startups, in regards to infrastructure. You know, in Bangkok I had the pleasure of staying with an independent hotelier who invested in me. He wanted to know more about Nomad Exec and he said, "You know what? I'm gonna actually comp you two weeks in my hotel. I want you to experience my hotel as you are a Nomad Executive and then provide me a detailed report and feedback and then let's work together as to make my hotel one of the hubs within the Nomad Executive network," let's say. So the response on the hotel side has been actually very interesting. But I will say extended stay exists. It's categories in many of the brands. I don't think they've been elevated, if I can put that, elevated enough or highlighted enough that they should be utilized by people who are looking for this kind of lifestyle. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. You know, I have a lot of comments on that. So for me personally, I would differentiate extended stay and long-term stay around the one-month mark. So extended stay for me is, you know, when I think of extended stay, I'm thinking seven nights to let's say three weeks, 21 nights. And then beyond that is long-term stay. I don't think it's been really defined as of yet. Michael Cohen: So that's a perfect opportunity, Adam, to your point, is that the extension of extended stay or maybe reformulating it slightly, making it more advantageous for a nomad executive type to be able to stay in a long-term extended stay scenario. But things like the office area need to be amazing. The office chair needs to be great. There needs to be amenities outside, within a reasonable part of town. Like if it's an extended stay and it's not terrible, but an extended stay scenario is near the airport, that doesn't work for a nomad exec because if we're staying for three months or four months, we need to be in an environment where we can walk potentially to a whole experience center of all things of that region, of that culture, of that milieu of why we chose. 'Cause remember, much of it is we chose to have an extended long-term stay in this location, not because of client business. That's also a differentiator. Extended stay hotel is for executives who are going to spend time at their corporate client for three and a half weeks. Nomad executives, sometimes that's the case, but most times it's like I'm choosing my location-independent lifestyle choice of location, and I'm gonna run my company, I'm gonna manage my people, I'm gonna grow my startup, I'm gonna fund as a VC my portfolio from sometimes amazing tropical places, but sometimes from a place that I love that is comfortable, it's cost-effective, and it's not a beach town. You know what I mean? But it's somewhere that I really am comfortable and I can live and I can learn and I can experience culture and language and food and entertainment and relationships that I couldn't do otherwise. Adam Mogelonsky: Right. So, I mean, location, location, location first. Second is, you know, if you look at how extended stay emerged, it basically emerged, if we're thinking in terms of the chain scale, it emerged from select service and limited service, and then grew out from there in terms of retrofitting with kitchenettes. What you're describing in terms of corporate executive stay seems to align more with the emergence of branded residences for hotels, which is more luxury boutique, upper upscale in terms of having those finishes and onsite amenities, as well as the boutique and lifestyle hotels that would cater to a nomadic exec are already more aligned with experiential destinations that have a 100 walkability score. Michael Cohen: But as always, you're Adam Mogelonsky, you nailed it better than I could explain it. It's the walkability score. So it's the experience in the property, the experience in my... If I'm in this room for three months, I gotta have some natural light, I gotta have a great desk, I have to have something. I have to have some level of kitchen-ish something that I can actually make something that's reasonable. Anyways, but I mean, I think the walkability score, if it's hotels or STR, et cetera, it's huge. And then, of course, there's the environmental side of it. Like, is it a beach town? Is it a ski town? And that's another layer of, I wouldn't say luxury, I'd say it's a layer of choice, right? But yeah, I agree with you. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and the other layer to this is if we think about the name, Nomad Executive. Executive, we're talking about people that generally speaking have, let's say a six-figure salary. Michael Cohen: Many times. Adam Mogelonsky: Or at least some cash flow. So that means that we're not talking about people that are just heads in beds. We're talking about people that can afford and expect to use the amenities that are on site. Michael Cohen: I mean, Adam, 100%, but let's also say this, and maybe I don't think it's too much to say. It's some of the most lucrative client base to attract, to bring to your property, to bring to your condo. Like, you want a nomad exec to be part of it. So it's another enhancement to, is it loyalty programs? I mean, is it a specialized program? Could a brand or should a hotel brand have a package where if I commit to 100 days, 100 nights a year, but I can choose from 25 locations around the world, I get some sort of benefit financially, but they get the benefit of having something locked in? Things like that. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, I mean, I remember Selina set up a program like that as part of their membership. Michael Cohen: I was one of the first 100 people that signed up and I was paying $1,500 a month and I could choose through all the Selina portfolio and I could choose a certain class of room up to a certain amount of days per month, but I had it optimized or economized, paying like a subscription service every month. And I was in that program for six months. And then unfortunately, Selina had some challenges that were outside of my control. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And I remember that membership or that subscription service. It was great. And Selina, I guess, had challenges in other areas, let's say. So, I think we've sort of beaten it over the head, the opportunity here, and it is up to, if you're a multi-property or large brand, there's opportunities for a subscription service where they can choose multiple ones or even just setting up a package where there's a length of stay incentive, a serious discount, knowing that you make it back in terms of reduced cost per occupied room, as well as the fact these are executives who will likely spend on site. Michael Cohen: Correct. F&B, baby. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, on the note of F&B, you personally, you talk about walking, but what value would you place on a grocery delivery service to your room? Michael Cohen: 159% value. I am a Deliveroo customer. I am an Uber Eats customer. I am trying to remember the ones in Latin America. I have subscriptions in Grab in Asia. I use it constantly for groceries. That's how I do it. Now, I also go when I feel like it to experience shopping, but as a day-to-day-- Listen, the matrix of opportunity for a nomad executive with rideshare apps, food delivery/grocery apps, global doctor apps. Forget about health insurance for a second. There's the apps. I pay a small fee, and I have access to all these doctors anywhere in the world if I have an issue. I was in Valencia, had a really bad flu, and it developed into a small but serious version of pneumonia. I was with a business partner who you know, sharing his place in Valencia. It was a disaster health-wise. At 3:30 in the morning, I pull up this app, and it's in my language while I'm in Valencia, Spain, and within an hour, there was a doctor at the residence I was staying at that checked me out, made sure I was okay, gave me some short-term meds, gave me a prescription for three meds, and then three hours later, at eight o'clock in the morning, I was at the pharmacy in Valencia getting what I needed. So all that was done mobile. So we know about connectivity, we know mobility, we know about apps, but this whole vortex of opportunities, the tools, connectivity, Starlink, Amazon's new initiative, always-on high-speed internet on the planes, the trains, walking around a city. So the cost of data with SIM cards. I actually have a global eSIM. A global eSIM. I get off the fricking plane, and it just works. I don't have to swap eSIMs. It's a magical time to be a nomad executive. Adam Mogelonsky: And all that glue, let's say, has come together over the past five years to really enable and make this lifestyle, this segment, so frictionless. And that is at the heart of why it's such a huge opportunity. It's not a fringe thing. It's gonna keep growing. And the core of it from all this is good internet, good internet access. Michael Cohen: First thing I do, like we all do, is I check the internet access. I send it to folks who I'm collaborating with or people at GAIN, my partner in regards to Nomad. So the Borderless Nomad Executive book and the platform and the cohort. Yeah, that's the oxygen for all of us. It's no different, but it needs to be solid. So that's part of what a hotel has to make sure, or an STR has to make sure, is that these long-term stay scenarios have the core components rock solid. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. You know, when everyone logs into Netflix at 5:15 PM and you're on a Zoom call which is six hours behind, you still need to not have that drop or be interrupted. Michael Cohen: Yeah, the concurrence in a hotel, the concurrent users. As you know, I was in, and I am in, the hotel Wi-Fi infrastructure space for 11, 12 years, and senior vice president of hotel Wi-Fi for AT&T, so I got you. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Michael Cohen: There have always been challenges, and the magic boxes that have been going into the hotels have gotten better and better, and the service has gotten better and better, we hope. But it's a requirement. And many of these things, like we said, here's a great thing about what we do, Adam, and many of us in this industry, is we are involved in the apex of innovation and technology for an expanding dynamic travel and hospitality industry. And we all know it's challenging and all the cliches. It's behind, and there's legacy systems, and it's a challenging industry, and we always say all that, and it's partially true, but it also creates incredible opportunities. And what's great about maybe segueing, we might segue into high tech now, but that's why it's great to be part of GAIN Advisors and also in my professional personal life, let's say, be the Nomad Exec or Nomad Executive because they just fit perfectly. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Well, we're not gonna segue into high tech just yet. First, you mentioned your flu experience. And besides having that app that allows you to connect with doctors and have that, I guess, insurance or reassurance, a very important part of this lifestyle that perhaps is an objection people would have is that it's hard on the body, that they can't maintain their health and wellbeing routine that they get at home. You know, they know where the gym is. It's two blocks away. They have all their gym equipment. They have their supplements. They have their regular eating at home, everything. How have you adjusted so that way you can stay as healthy as possible while traveling and living abroad, however slow that travel is? What have you done? Michael Cohen: So it doesn't surprise me that you're making sure we talk about this. That's the first thing. And it's super, super important. I'll talk anecdotally first and I'll talk systematically second. Anecdotally, I've never been healthier in my life, ever. I've never been more active because the world is outside my door and it's a different world. Not every day, which is the good thing. It's every three months. It's every two months. It's every three and a half months. That wanderlust of where you are, the location wanderlust, is really compelling. It gets you off the couch. You want to experience this cafe. You want to experience these healthy restaurants. You want to do long walks because it's incredible vistas versus I have to walk every day because I have to go to the gym. And I find the gym, and I do a two-month membership. I mean, it's all set up for this. I eat better. I never was a big drinker, to be personal and open, but I drink less alcohol. I eat better because it's sometimes exotic, sometimes not, but I'm more selective simply because I'm in this mindset. So I would say that everything is built into this for slow travel. Two to three-month travel is different than I'm on the road every week, different place, I'm always stressed. That's business travel, let's call it. That's not what this is, right? I'm on a roadshow. But I do that sometimes. It's part of my career, of course, but that's not my lifestyle. My travel lifestyle is, no, I'm an executive lifestyle of two, three, maybe four months in one location where you lean in, you embed yourself. And having the variety of different cultures, variety of different weather. I will say I hadn't seen snow until this year because I had a very good friend who got married in February in Canada. I hadn't seen snow in four years, and I'm Canadian, by the way, folks. So I'm not a snowbird. I am definitely not retired. So these are the kind of things that, from a health and wellness perspective, it's conducive. So there's both the anecdotal and the systematic there. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and it's a very good point, just about that it's kind of enlightening in a lot of ways. And so much when we think of slow travel, I think the image of slow travel is people just going to a resort for a week and then not going multiple locations. But what you're saying is that slow travel also applies perfectly as well to an urban setting. Michael Cohen: Absolutely. I mean, the ability to, for example, very recently, I had the good fortune of spending two months in south of France. Sounds like I'm a bit of a jerk, but it was amazing. And I spent a month in Bordeaux, and I spent a month in Antibes near Cannes and Nice. In Bordeaux, I'm going back next year for sure for two and a half months, 100%, incredible city, because I got to experience it a little bit like I was living there as a resident. And I met people and I knew people and I had access to the experiential side of that city, which is the greatest city in France in my opinion. It's a better Paris in my opinion. All those are personal opinions, but I was able to immerse myself, that term's important, not in a rush. I do my work. I lead a company. I work with great people. I have responsibilities and priorities to deliver, but it's 7:30 and I can go out and I'm in the middle of Bordeaux and it is amazing. And same thing in other locations. And again, not for everybody. Everyone has their favorite spots, but the ability to do this kind of slow travel and learn. There's a boulangerie I love. That's my favorite breakfast restaurant. That's my favorite place to have a hike. Like you're a resident. It's resident-like travel. Adam Mogelonsky: And resident-like travel without the local pushback, because there has been a lot of pushback in places that are having overtourism like Barcelona, Amsterdam. Michael Cohen: Yeah. I mean, to be open, and we don't spend too much time on that, but it's a reality. Because I'm not a vacation traveler, I'm not associated with the volume or that. But still people, you know, I get feedback sometimes. Like I'm staying in Lisbon, Portugal and I'll get some feedback, like, "Hey, you know?" But that's something somewhat outside of people's control. That's about trends, that's about governments, that's about residency visas, long-term stay visas, all the things that are reviewed in my book, "The Borderless Book." But it's manageable, very manageable, and it's very pleasurable. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. So I think that's a good segue into HITEC, and we've talked a lot about technology that can enable this type of lifestyle. Where do you see the opportunities for hotel technology and travel technology, either features or vendors that you see making a difference? Michael Cohen: I mean, in the macro sense? Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, any points of friction you think that aren't being properly addressed? Michael Cohen: Oh yeah. Sure. So listen, that's a big question then, and we work in that space, so it's appropriate. I'll try to answer the question without saying AI 42 times. But look, I work with a lot of smart people like you, but I think I've been successful by boiling stuff down and kind of keeping it simple. All great technology in general, and definitely in travel and hospitality, needs to have identified a disease and be the medicine for that. The whole framework, again, you know I like my frameworks. Every founder, every midsize or enterprise technology company that I've ever either worked for or worked in or interacted with, I always ask in some way, shape, or form that question: "What is the disease and how are you the medicine?" So it's really all about friction. You mentioned that in the other part of this conversation. There's still so much opportunity in regards to technologies that help us sell more, optimize staffing, drive margins. But it's always about sandpaper. It's always about eliminating the friction. And I'm talking in euphemisms, I'm talking in metaphors, I'm talking in generalities for a reason, because the categories within travel and hospitality tech are very established. The innovation and the optimization are very established. Where there are true opportunities and challenges that need to be dealt with is how does the tech stack get refreshed in an efficient and cost-effective way that drives ROI and is scalable? Let me say that again. How does the tech stack get refreshed and optimized in a cost-effective, ROI-driven, and scalable way? That's the whole ballgame. So it's tech A, tech B, tech C, it's HITEC, it's other events, it's hardware, it's AI, it's cloud-based. Every focus has to be what I just talked about. So the biggest challenge and opportunity is some brands and some owners have been forward-thinking, and they've identified that the tech stack, guest-facing or operationally, has needed to be refreshed and optimized, and they've been doing that for the last 10 years. There's still, we both know, and I'm sure many listeners have a gut call, at least 40% of the industry, in my opinion, that are hanging on. They're still stuck in the mud because either they don't have the foresight, they are not future-forward, and that's okay because they're focused on today and only today, or maybe next quarter or the quarter after. They're publicly traded or they have ownership groups that have different mandates, different focuses, and it's all about profitability and margin. It's not always about investing in the next 10 years of the tech stack. So to me, the answer is the amalgamation, the intelligent curation of what they should be looking at, how they should be slipstreaming that into their operations, into their tech stack, into the hotel, future-forward initiatives. So I know it's a general answer, but hopefully that's effective because that's how I think about things. Adam Mogelonsky: The way I interpret that as a Virgo who loves my lists and putting things in priorities and being that operating officer who always asks for deadlines is saying: we've identified the opportunity, there is an ROI. What are the features we need to put in place? What can we do right now? What can we do in the near term, and what should we look at as a long-term project as time allows? Then systematizing it, assigning a project leader, and giving them a deadline toward figuring this out. I think we've already identified some things, like saying: you as a nomad exec like grocery deliveries. Can we offer that service through our hotel to make a little bit of revenue, but also increase on-property security around having delivery people come in? Or offering people better quality than Deliveroo or Rappi in terms of access to fresh fruit, vegetables, et cetera. That's one aspect of it, let alone the basic one of some sort of length-of-stay incentive for you. Michael Cohen: I think that's very true from that previous conversation, but also in relation to HITEC, GAIN is going to be there, we have GAIN Advisors coming and all those things. What’s important to me is what I would call Swiss Army knife platforms. It used to be, in my opinion, early in my career, people were cobbling together platforms. They were doing corporate roll-ups and stitching together systems. Now it’s far more sophisticated, far more integrated. Companies like Agilysys have done an amazing job with acquisitions and integrations into a fully integrated suite of products and services. And obviously the darling of the space, and a client of ours, Mews, has had a similar strategy over the last three to four years. They built leadership in innovation in PMS and expanded through development or acquisition into a full ecosystem for the hotel tech stack, cloud-based. That is the ballgame. That’s where the industry needs to go. There are more players than those two, but the direction is clear. Assa Abloy has also acquired a lot of technology, more on the hardware and infrastructure side, but there’s a reason for that. It used to be that roll-ups were purely financial decisions—building valuation, improving economies of scale, increasing EBITDA. Now, much of it is because that’s where the industry has to go. These amalgamated, curated universes of innovation are beyond integrated. They’re beyond aligned. With AI as the overall wrapper, they are now embedded in each other. That’s different from integration. That’s different from alignment. They’re embedded, so there’s a flow that becomes like a heartbeat of the property technologically. Adam Mogelonsky: You mention AI, and AI search or generative engine optimization is another big trend. People are increasingly using LLMs to discover and do everything up until booking. That disconnect—the booking rail—will take time to sort out. Instead of typing into Google or starting in an OTA, people are increasingly starting from an LLM. This is something where these two trends can go in lockstep. If you design the features and properly communicate them, someone like a Michael Cohen somewhere in the world is typing into an LLM saying: “I’m going to Rio de Janeiro. What is the best hotel you recommend for a nomad executive according to XYZ features I require?” Michael Cohen: That’s 120% again. Wonderful next discussion. We’re working from the Nomad Executive perspective with a couple of organizations based on my and other business partners in the Nomad Executive world. There’s a company called Hip Traveler, with a very elegant interface for creators and consumers to build relationships and discover experiences. They’re potentially working on a Nomad Executive version of their algorithm. We’re giving them 20 must-haves and 20 nice-to-haves, and they’ve embedded it into their proprietary algorithms and LLM systems. That’s essentially an execution of what you’re describing for a specific cohort. For the broader travel and hospitality client, whether it’s cruises or other trips, the reality is the mystery of travel continues to diminish. You can pre-experience things through YouTube and research in milliseconds what used to take hours, days, or months. That used to be part of the fun, but it also created gaps and mistakes. Now, nothing is ever perfect, and AI won’t make it perfect either, but it moves us much closer to optimization and reduces friction and errors significantly. If you think back to a first trip to Europe, like I had when I was 19 with a 300-page book called Let’s Go Europe, that was effectively an early curated LLM. Today, the goal is that you can be creative—not just in work and life, but in travel—because research is no longer the bottleneck. It opens up new possibilities you didn’t even know existed based on structured criteria and frameworks. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Your original trip to Europe reminds me of how the Michelin Guide started, where it was originally just trying to sell tires. Michael Cohen: It's different though. Adam Mogelonsky: but you look at where the Michelin Guide is now with their Michelin Keys, and the Michelin Keys are embedded into Apple Maps. and, you know, so Michelin, dare I say it, Michelin is a technology company Michael Cohen: 100%. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Michael Cohen: Very true Adam Mogelonsky: You know, on the final note of technology though, as it to drop back to this nomadic exec and talking about travel trends, are there any particular categories of hotel technologies that people going to HITEC should look at to enable digital nomadism? Michael Cohen: Well, I think again, because it's a cohort and it's not a tsunami of volume yet, but it's growing, is absolutely what tech- any technology that can support the seamless experience for a long-term stay guest. So, exercise and wellness technology, very interesting. Embedding more, and there's all kinds white noise machines because, you know, I'm living there for three months and maybe for some reason there is a reality that the hotel can't control outside of the building. You know, air quality, the sensors being embedded in the room and all the GRMS systems for the air quality. Again, these are things that for all guests, but specifically for someone who's spending two to three months in this extended stay, long-term stay experience, the ability to have outdoor spaces that are green. I know it's not technology, but it's could be technology enabled and have coverage, of course, in all these scenarios too. I think what's really interesting too is technology that enables people to plug in their lifestyle. So, you know, casting, of course, and all that from content. If you don't have that now, you're behind and you will. But the ability like to, all the devices, the human personal devices that people are having and the data, if there's a way for that to be embedded into the systems, I can review it on my television screen. Maybe there's some way that it can be added into my workout experience at the hotel gym. Like onboarding the stuff, the technology that a nomad exec or any long-term stay guest uses to have an optimized life, that's interesting, right? Food science, technology, super interesting. If there's a way that, you know, purified water in the room, like different types of consumables that are technology enabled that provide a healthier and more consistent experience, super interesting. That's why I'll come back next year for three months again, because of the accoutrement about the surrounding technological and lifestyle that is delivered by the hotel property. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and you mention just clean drinking water and even a garden or green that isn't necessarily technology, but underpinning that is the need for capital asset tracking, right, you know, plants don't just grow by themselves. They have to be manicured, and they need water, and all that comes down to the infrastructure. Michael Cohen: I do have one if I can interject, and it's one that everyone's talking about for the last 18 months: personalization. Any technology that can enable expanded intelligent personalization, especially for someone who has their choice of a long stay, multi-thousand dollar investment over two or three months, personalize it. Understand who I am. Give me something a little different for different sake, something that's me a little bit. I will remember that. I will have a more positive or more engaging experience. So the personalization side of it is obviously a huge play, and there's a lot of providers that either are focused in that space or they're adding that as enhancements to their platform. That is a perfect correlation between what's happening in the industry in general, a lot of the vendors at HITEC and people who are like myself and nomad executive or extended long-term stay. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And I think that's a beautiful way to dovetail it back to our conclusion, where I want to talk about not just people that are waiting in the wings and maybe they have some objections over amenities or health and wellbeing, et cetera, but also the objection over the family life and incorporating family into this lifestyle. The more personal, the more universal. How have you accommodated your family while living abroad? Michael Cohen: Sure. There are two streams of this. There's people that it's the right time of life, where they're either empty nesters or they never had kids or whatever the case. And there's people that it's before they've had kids, right? They're in their 20s and 30s, and they're aspirational nomad executives. So they are nomad business people, but they want to be able to live this nomad business life and aspire to do that well while they're ascending in their careers. So truly where the nomad executive or nomad businessperson scenario is different than the digital nomad, of course, is in many ways, but it's perfectly doable for a family if the family is into it. If both spouses have careers that they can have location-independent careers, if they're open to having their kids have different school cycles, it has to be a lifestyle choice in the macro sense for families to do a nomad executive lifestyle. So that's the first thing. But so let's take that, let's say it's that 60% of the population is that. 40% of the population is either aspiring or they're active. That's the sweet spot for the nomad executive. So the choices are, do I work out of my condo in Toronto exclusively, and I go once a month for one vacation for three weeks? Or do I work from four different locations around the world, and I still take my three weeks of holidays in a different... But I'm working. I am just transitioning my employment, my day-to-day as a business person or as a professional that has the ability to have a location-independent career. I'm working just as hard, but everything around it is enhanced. So the other side of it is many people in the nomad exec lifestyle category or cohort, they have kids who are in their 20s. So guess what? Kids pay half, I pay half. Come to Rio. Kids pay half, I pay half come to Bordeaux. Or here's what's really important, and maybe it's too much information, but part of my suggested nomad exec lifestyle is one of the travel trifectas of the four-month cycle is in your home country. So I spend four months a year, three and a half, four months a year in Canada every year. The best three and a half months of the year in Canada every year, and I see my kids consistently for that timeframe, and then I see them periodically over the years. By the way, I saw them the same amount of time when I was living in my condo in Toronto. And we have a very close family, so that's not an issue. But they're busy, they're traveling, they're doing their thing. One lives in Montreal sometimes, one lives in Toronto, then one lives in LA half the year. So it's already a distributed experience anyways. So again, it's not for everybody, but it's for many. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. I think that's a beautiful way to finish off. So Michael, you have Borderless out, for people to live and learn this lifestyle from the people who have figured it out through blood, sweat, and tears. We have HITEC coming up for everyone who's interested. And then beyond that, you're just traveling around the world and living the slow travel nomad exec life Michael Cohen: 100%. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Michael, a fantastic discussion. Thanks so much for coming on Michael Cohen: Really appreciate it. Thanks everybody. Thank you, Adam, as always Adam Mogelonsky: Thanks.