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Discovering Bitcoin with Boomer · Discovering Bitcoin

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If you're discovering Bitcoin in Australia, you don't need
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complexity, you need clarity. Hard Block offers simple Bitcoin
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buying, flat fees and education that respects your intelligence.
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That's it. I see the world through an
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entirely different lens. It doesn't just give you
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confidence, but it gives you hope.
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Take like we're squandering our energy, our life force so.
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Bitcoin is changing that for me because it's like it's healing
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energy. It gives you a kind of.
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Of a sudden. Feeling.
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Right. Where the hole?
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Goes. Deep and deep and deep.
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And the immortal words of the doors, the time to hesitate us
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through discovering. Who am I?
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What's going on, man? About man, first time, long
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time. Yeah, every time.
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Every time I I talk to like one of the Bitcoin podcasters, it
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feels, it's a weird feeling for me because like, I feel like I
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know all of you because I listen to you guys so much.
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You guys don't know me at all. It's it's, it's just really
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weird. That's the whole premise of this
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show, man. And so like, but, but I have the
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advantage. I have the asymmetry.
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You know, I, I, I, I had Abby Burr on and I listened to his
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pod. And then, yeah, you, you hear
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them in real life like they're on the other end, like Huddle,
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for instance, or Breedlove or Valus or whatever.
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And and all of a sudden you're sitting there chatting to them
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going OK, yeah, I once. I can ask them questions now and
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they'll answer me it. It goes two ways now.
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It's weird. Yeah, instead of sitting in your
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car going fuck, why isn't the host like asking that question?
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What a retard. Jesus.
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Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's spit out, man.
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But I'm stoked to have you on this pod.
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I I know you've been listening to discovering Bitcoin for a
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while and you've reached out because I, I said, you know,
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like I think it was that Ramdas reading, you know, just reach
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out, tell me if you want to come on the pod.
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And you did it. So fuck yeah, Yeah.
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Cool. Thanks man.
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Yeah, yeah. I mean, like you filled a very
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important role in my podcasting, you know, kind of life.
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Like I, I was, and I've told you this before, I was like a huge
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John Ballas guy. Like when I first got into
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Bitcoin, like he, his podcast, like Bitcoin Rapid Fire was
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really the one that really got me, you know, like that, that
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that was my, that was my guy. Like John Ballas was my guy.
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And, and I listened to like every single one of his shows.
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And then, you know, John kind of did.
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Yeah, yeah, he did Bitcoin Rapid Fire and then he got married and
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decided to just like kind of shut it down and and I had like
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this big void in my in my Bitcoin listening of, of that,
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that specific type of interview. And then your show kind of came
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along and I don't remember exactly which guest you had on
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that, that I first found you. It wasn't episode 1 for sure.
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It was, you know, probably 10 or 15 episodes in, maybe even more
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than that. And then I'm like, Oh yeah, this
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is this is what I'm looking for. Like this is this is what I this
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is what I need. So I had to go back and listen
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to most, maybe not all, but definitely the vast majority of
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of your shows. Man, that's a compliment and a
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half. Good grief, it is.
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That's a massive compliment for for me to say that like, you're
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my John Vallas replacement. Like, trust me, that is like
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incredibly high praise coming from me.
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I'm not sure if if I'm worthy of that.
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I have a great deep respect for Vallas.
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Vallas was, you know, it's similar sort of vibe, like he,
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he when the way he just kind of approached this whole thing and
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he was, you know, it's like he's got that like, I ain't nothing
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wrong with a think boy as far as I'm concerned.
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But you know, he's just very, yeah, I, I have a lot of deep
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respect and, and, and time and reverence for John and his pod
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as well. His Sailor interview back when
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Sailor was doing all of these rounds, you know, in the pods,
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and everyone was getting excited that you have Sailor on your
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podcast. He was the most genuine one of
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that whole cohort. Yeah.
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Super chill. Yeah, like, like very Evergreen
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interview. Yes.
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Like you could, you could listen to them at any time and it just
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didn't matter. Like in the in this world where
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everything is high time preference and everything is
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about priced and about like what's in the news now or, you
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know, thumbnails like, oh, look at this breaking news type of
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stuff. It's ballast.
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And then you, you, yeah. And then it's over ballast and
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then and then you guys like you like it's anytime you turn it
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on, anytime it's chill. It's low time preference.
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Like I know. Yeah.
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Like you said, you brought up the word think boy.
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Like I, I find that, you know, expensive, but you know, you
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know, I think it's like, come on.
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Like it's, it's like, at least it's, it's, it's Evergreen,
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right? Like it it's takes some time to
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think about this thing that we're in instead of worrying
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about, like, what's going to get you clicks on Twitter.
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Yeah, I guess there's. There's there's value in that
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stuff, I guess for some people, and I'm guilty of it to like
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listen to the price stuff. But you know, what you guys do
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is you and John do and some of the other guys in the space as
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well. It's it's, it's just different.
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It hits different. No, I appreciate you saying
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that, man. Thank you.
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Enough about me, let's get on to it.
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How did you discover Bitcoin? I guess like everybody else, had
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a couple of touch points before I really discovered it, right?
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I was thinking about the other day and I think the first time I
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ever heard about it was on an NPR podcast of all things.
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Public Radio. Yeah, NPR like super
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left-leaning, like public radio and they work.
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And it was right around the Mount Gox explosion.
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I think. I think that's and they were
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kind of covering that story, you know, and I was intrigued.
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Like this is kind of interesting, but I'm not very
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techie. And here's this like magic
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Internet money type of thing. And it's being kind of pitched
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at me from a very left-leaning perspective.
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And I just kind of blew it off. And then you have another
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couple, a couple other touch points and you see other PCP
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making money off it. I had a friend of mine, her
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husband was just started trading Bitcoin.
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I guess this is like on the run up, maybe 20.
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It's been 2016, maybe 2017, the run up then.
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And I went over to their place for dinner and he's like showing
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me his trading bot. But he was, he was a real tech
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guy. He had no clue what Bitcoin was
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when he was just trading momentum, right.
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But he had built like some sort of bot on his computer to trade
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this stuff. And he was showing me.
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And I'm like, wow, that's really cool.
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That's really, really, really cool.
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Yeah. Within six months, they both
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retired and moved. And for all I know, they're
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still in Mexico. He made so much money.
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So that was kind of like a second touch point.
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And then when COVID hit, I finally like, OK, now I got some
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time 2020 nothing else to do with my time.
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I'm going to dig into this Bitcoin crypto thing and
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actually study it. Bought a couple of books, bought
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Safedeen book about Jeff Booth's book started off with just the
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very trad fi ones, the CNBC's, the Bloomberg podcast and stuff.
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And they had a way of kind of exposing you to Bitcoin.
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That's not, not the right way to get exposed to Bitcoin, I
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suppose, but it was at least enough to get me started.
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So I took a small amount of money, not, not a massive amount
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of money, but just, you know, a couple 100 bucks and said to
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myself, I'm going to put a little bit in the market just so
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I have skin in the game. I put half of it in Bitcoin and
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like 25% in Ethereum and a couple other shit coins.
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And, you know, I just kind of used that as tuition kind of
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learn within six months, I was, I had sold all the checkpoints
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and I was Bitcoin only. I guess it really didn't take me
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that long. Like, and as far as you hear
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stories about, you know, people on their on their Bitcoin
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journey and how, you know, the checkpoint all point market, I
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never really got hurt by it. You know, I kind of was was able
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to keep my exposure to that stuff to almost nothing anyway.
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And by the time I started listening to like Charles
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Hoskinson and Cardano and Metallic, that Ethereum, I was
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starting to realize like these guys don't like this is not my
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tribe, right? And I'm listening to guys like
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John Dallas and Breedlove and a little bit later, later Sailor.
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And I'm like, yeah, OK, well, I think this is a little bit more
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my vibe. So I've kind of been Bitcoin
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only ever since that was like 2021, I guess was was kind of
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when I made the the big move. It always takes at least three
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points of contact, right? That's the safest thing.
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When you climb on a ladder and you're trying to get up to the
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top or whatever. It's three touch points, 3
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points of contact. And I mean, it's cool that you
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didn't wreck yourself on shit coins.
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I mean, that is a, it's a rare bird right there because, you
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know, a lot of people, yeah, they, they spread out.
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I've got to diversify My Portfolio and blah, blah, blah,
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blah, blah. And you know, like, gosh, I'm
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guilty of that for sure. Not so much in shit coins, but
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in like stocks, shitty stocks. It's it's like, because you,
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yeah, I mean, it's just like a risk averse thing, right?
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You're like, Oh well, you know, I don't want to put all the eggs
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in that one basket sort of thing.
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And I can remember listening to Huddle talking, American Huddle
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talking about, The thing is, man, it's all denominated in the
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worst shit coin of them all. And so any gains you make,
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you're just making gains in the worst shit coin of them all.
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And you're still losing out. You're still not getting as many
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stats as you could have if you'd have just stacked and allocated
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that capital towards Bitcoin instead.
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And that was like a light bulb moment.
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Did you have like some sort of light bulb moment, you know,
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around something like that? A few of them to me, NGU, it was
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never really about NGU for me. Like it was more like an
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educational thing, like I kind of got into Bitcoin just more as
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like just the kind of curiosity and like, OK, well, I'll I'll
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just learn this thing. It wasn't like a massive, I
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wasn't chasing price. So I think that kind of saved me
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and I credit that to, you know, low time preference.
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I, I was one of those guys. I had low time preference before
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I got into Bitcoin. So that that wasn't really a
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thing. I was very active in the fire
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community, like financial independence, retire early.
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And you know, a lot of guys kind of make fun of that community.
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You know, the Dame, Dave Ramsey's, I'm sure you've seen
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like puts of Dave Ramsey floating around and even guys
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like Peter Schiff are, are well, well read in that, in that
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space. So guys like Peter Schiff and
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Dave Ramsey in that space, but say we don't want to say about
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that community, about the fire community.
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It really teaches you the value of I'm in the market and not I'm
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in the market. So when I kind of got exposed to
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Bitcoin my third time, you know, the when the hook really got me,
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I was already kind of predisposed not the kind of
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chase Fiat gains. So it was it was with lucky in
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that sense, right. So, you know, thank my lucky, my
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lucky heavens for it. Well, I guess the curiosity was
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the thing that was leading the leading the charge that, you
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know, I found those that are in like the the the number go up
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thing, you know, Yeah, it's exciting for all of like a day
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really, to be honest, you know, and the most of the time you're
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kind of down in the dumps because you've you're not off
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that all time high. So if your entire existence or
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engagement rather with Bitcoin is dependent on price, you're
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going to have a bad time, you're going to be pretty bored, you're
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probably going to be a little bit upset and depressed.
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And you're not going to stick around, no.
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No. You know, you're not going to
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you're not going to stick around.
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And in previous cycles, we saw this with with the with the shit
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coins, right? People would chase the all coins
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and then they'd eventually get wrecked because they're chasing
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NGU. So they see these other little
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things moving faster than Bitcoin, you know, in a bull
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market. So they're moving more and more
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of their portfolio, quote UN quote portfolio into, into these
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all coins and then they get wrecked.
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And then they once once they get wrecked once if if they're
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they're done, like they're not coming back, right?
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Like if you stick with Bitcoin throughout the whole thing and
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it's a curiosity thing and it's more, I hate the word academic,
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but a little, you know, you know what I mean?
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It's, it's not just price, it's it's something else.
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It's, it's either the tech, you know, some guys do it for the
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tech, like the mining guys, they stick around because of the love
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of the game. You know, like the, the mind,
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the the technology or, or the, the ethos, the the philosophy,
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anything, something other than price, even in a bear market,
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you're going to stick around a lot longer.
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Yeah. Now like even now like you know,
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they all we're in, I guess we're in a bull, a bear market now, I
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guess you can call it that. And the all coins never really
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had a bull market because all those all those guys that were
14:25
chasing Fiat gains now are on polymarket and Cal.
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She like betting on what the weather is going to be tomorrow,
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right? Like literally like they're
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literally betting on the weather or like the color of Gatorade at
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the Super Bowl or whatever. So they've never, we've
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completely lost that group of people to kind of pull in a
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couple of people and get Bitcoiners out of them, right?
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Like those gamblers in previous cycles, maybe we lost 95% of
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them once the bear market hit, but there was always 5%, like
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one out of 21 out of 10, whatever that was, who would
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kind of stick around to kind of the Bitcoin stuff.
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And eventually, you know, they become somebody in our
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community. But I think this cycle, I don't
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think we're going to get very many of them.
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Man, you got to have a passion. And if you're a DJ and you got
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to have somewhere to allocate that that passion for setting
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capital on fire, you know? Yeah, it's it's weird.
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I don't understand why you wouldn't be curious about this
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thing. Like I've found over the course
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of recording these episodes is that the people that are most
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rewarded in this in this environment are the most curious
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people. And it's not to say like those
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people that exited this cycle, last cycle, whatever, it's not
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to say that they won't be back because at some point either
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they or their descendants will be back.
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If this thing goes where it's going to go, you know, money
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converges to 1 and they'll just be forced at gunpoint
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effectively. Like not, not not at gunpoint.
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No, that's a shitty analogy, but, you know, because.
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I know what you mean, I know. I know they just have to bend
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the knee and so you'll you can shine my shoes for like a couple
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of sats if you want. But yeah, it's just much better
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to be curious and you can look at this thing in so many
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different ways. You know that that is that is
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satisfying. I was listening to a couple of
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boys, Jack and Nick, I think their name was.
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They wrote a, a paper that it's, it's sort of bridges this note
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that the notion of Bitcoin with, you know, traditional physics,
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with quantum physics. And I'm going through the paper
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and they're talking about consciousness.
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And I'm like, well, fuck, that's up my alley.
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So I'm trying to unpack that. And it just comes out of nowhere
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like left field. And this is the thing you can
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just dive super deep into, into something like that.
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Or you can, yeah, you can float around and just simply discuss
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chop solidation and price action and stuff, which, you know, to
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each his own. Fill your boots.
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And it seems so obvious, right? Like, well, first of all,
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getting back to what you mentioned about those guys in
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that paper, it, it reminds me of Gigi, right?
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Like the Bitcoin is time they kind of are doing, getting,
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putting their own spin on it. I, I, I haven't read the paper
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that they've done. I, is it even out?
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Like I know they're at like 2 or 300 pages already.
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Like it's going to be a book by the time it's out.
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It's about 222 pages, totally. You can find it at
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bitcoinlens.net. I did listen to their interview
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with Pish and I enjoyed it and I and I shared it around to a few
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of my buddies. Yeah, it was.
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It was interesting. But you know what, what you were
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saying before, like why aren't, why aren't people curious?
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It seems so obvious for us, you know, and for you and me and for
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probably every single person that downloads this podcast,
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because I know that I can only imagine the type of people that
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download. It seems so obvious for us.
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I host the local Bitcoin meet up here in my city and you know,
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we, we, we got about 12:15 regulars and, and, and of us
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like I, I love, I love my meet up so much.
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Like I love those guys so much. I, I love being the dumb guy in
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the room, You know, like I'm sitting around with, with, with,
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with these guys. One guy is like literally a
18:47
rocket scientist, like literally the the other guy is like
18:52
developing stuff on E cash and got another guy who's, you know,
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like a six, an older fellow, but he's like a successful investor
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who's just like super curious in his 60s.
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So he wants to learn this Bitcoin thing like just like
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really, really, really high integrity, high intelligence
19:09
dude that we just sit around and talk for a couple of times a
19:13
month. I can't imagine someone who's
19:17
new to the space just showing up to one of our meet ups and just
19:21
listening to the conversations, getting to know the guys and
19:25
then leaving and then thinking to themselves, like, oh, those
19:30
guys definitely don't know what they're talking about.
19:32
Those those guys are definitely, you know, there's something
19:34
wrong with those guys. I just can't imagine it.
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And and there is like a shit coin meet up, a couple of them,
19:40
a shit coin meet ups in my cities and and I try to go to
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them from time to time, just as like, you know, I say kind of
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recruit. I.
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Figure a check in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Just an olive branch, a little bit of an olive branch, you
19:54
know, to see who's out there to see like, oh, maybe, you know,
19:57
maybe there's something there like go to the these these guys
20:00
and they're not bad guys, like a couple of guys I actually kind
20:03
of like, but they're not the same like they're talking about
20:08
like NFTS and it's just not the same quality of discussion
20:14
that's going on. And so when newcomer newcomers
20:18
come to my meet up, I and and one of I'm sure.
20:21
You know, you've talked to meet up organizers before.
20:23
You've probably been to meet up before.
20:26
It's it's people kind of ask you questions when, when you're the
20:29
organizer and when it's their first time, you know, and, and
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one of the common questions is like, oh, this Bitcoin and
20:36
cryptocurrency, what's the difference?
20:38
But I'm at the point now where I don't even have to explain it.
20:41
I just tell them it's like, well, here, here's this meet up
20:43
that they meet whenever they meet, go check out, go to one of
20:46
their meet ups, just hang out. Just hang out with them, talk to
20:50
them and then come and hang out with us at our at our meet up
20:53
and you'll know the difference. Like it's, it's, it's just so
20:57
obvious, like. Yeah, show, don't tell, like
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exactly. Just go and experience it first
21:03
hand. That's just another.
21:05
It's it's yeah, it's not to say also I guess to qualify like
21:10
that Bitcoin is inherently smarter or better or any kind of
21:17
thing like that. It's it's just.
21:20
Deeper. We're deeper.
21:21
It's it's, it's deeper. Yeah.
21:23
It's not, it's just deeper. It's not necessarily smarter.
21:26
It's curious. It's just.
21:30
Well, we're all probably, you know, well, everybody is, but
21:34
we're all probably immediately obviously somewhat autistic, you
21:40
know, like, like, I don't know about you, but I, I went to
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this, I went to this farewell party over the weekend and I
21:51
didn't talk to really anybody about anything.
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Like it was sort of shallow, superficial conversation that
21:56
can only get me so far. And then eventually, you know,
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I'll just kind of all right, you know, my wife gets annoyed
22:04
because I'm just off in the corner by myself annoyed.
22:07
And I try not to use my phone. So I had it, had it away.
22:10
So it's basically just sitting there watching, observing.
22:13
And then the only dude, the other, this other person that
22:15
came up, he just turned out to be just as autistic as I was.
22:18
He didn't get out, he didn't get Bitcoin.
22:20
He's talking to me about his linguistics, you know, research,
22:25
which I found it quite interesting.
22:26
And then we just spun off into that and, and you know, but like
22:31
you wish that you could just, it's just easier to talk to
22:34
other Bitcoiners basically, because you can just get in
22:37
there and start talking about the meat on the bone straight
22:40
away rather than all of the, the bullshit that sort of you have
22:47
to wade through and check them out.
22:49
Are they going to be, you know, if I, if I just make a joke
22:52
about the firmament, are they going to, are they going to get
22:57
it? Yeah, yeah.
23:00
And we were like this before we found Bitcoin, right?
23:04
We're all, I can't say all of us, but most, most of us were a
23:06
certain way, you know, like, and, and it might have been in
23:10
different things like like the guy, like the guy that you met
23:12
at that party, like he's not OK. He's not into Bitcoin, he's into
23:15
whatever, he's into his linguistics or whatever, but
23:18
he's cut of the same cloth, right?
23:21
And. And just needs that touch point
23:23
to resonate. Yeah, or maybe he's he's doing a
23:27
podcast. He's doing a linguistics podcast
23:29
right now and he's interviewing someone and he's talking about
23:32
this guy that he met at a party. He was into Bitcoin who's like
23:36
close to getting the linguistics thing.
23:38
Like he's close, but he's he's focused on Bitcoin instead.
23:41
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23:45
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23:48
as a trade, start sensing it as a discovery.
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24:33
The same people. What a multiverse that would be.
24:39
We're we're the same. We're the same type and and it's
24:43
good like it it, it's good to be around other people that are
24:46
kind of like us, like right in, in that way.
24:50
Well, so speaking then you, you had this curiosity previously,
24:53
which then enabled you to rock the value prop of Bitcoin much
24:59
faster such that you didn't get wrecked on shit coins.
25:03
What what, what, what do you think you know?
25:07
What was it about your pre like say before Bitcoin that that
25:12
enabled you to be open to, to this thing and to even give it
25:16
the time of day? Obviously the the NGU was front
25:20
and centre with respect to, I think your neighbor, but you
25:24
mentioned that's not really why you came to the party.
25:27
So you're obviously a curious individual.
25:29
Yeah, I, I, I, I'm just lucky. Like it's certain certain things
25:33
about my personality or about my life that just kind of lined up
25:38
to this Bitcoin thing. It just kind of works out.
25:41
You know, the proof of work stuff I got right away.
25:45
Like my old man was a lobster fisherman, my grandfather was a
25:49
coal miner. You know, like work, you need to
25:53
work to make money was something that I got very, very early in
25:58
my life. Like it just made sense.
26:01
So here I am this. And that's why gold kind of made
26:03
sense to me as well. Like I'm not, I wouldn't sit
26:05
here and say that I was like a hardcore gold bug or anything
26:07
like that, but I did understand gold pretty, you know, pretty
26:12
well compared to most people. Like why gold was money.
26:15
I even without studying it, I could wrap my brain around and
26:18
like, Oh yeah, it just takes a lot of time to pull that thing
26:21
out of the ground and make these coins and stuff.
26:23
Like you can't just do it Willy nilly.
26:26
So I think that that definitely helps.
26:28
So my background definitely helped me in that way.
26:32
And yeah, like the curiosity, like just just lucky that like,
26:34
I was just born that way. Like I was that kid, you know,
26:38
when I was in elementary school, like I'd only read like science
26:41
fiction. I just love space and I love
26:45
X-Files and Star Trek, Star Wars.
26:48
Like any, anything that was like undiscovered was just that that
26:53
was my thing. And I've just always been that
26:57
way. Like I'm, I'm not the type of
26:59
guy, like, I'm not like this alpha male type of personality.
27:01
I'm not a fighter. I'm not like anything like that.
27:04
But had I been born 3 or 400 years ago, I would be that guy
27:08
on the boat, you know, going from England to the unexplored
27:11
world. Like I, I've, I've just, I'm not
27:13
afraid of the dark sky. Like I, I'm not afraid of the
27:17
unknown. You want to know what's around
27:20
that next bend? And I'm, and I have No Fear of
27:23
it whatsoever. Like I grew up pretty poor.
27:26
Like, like I grew up in a pretty poor area of Canada, like
27:28
probably the poorest part of Canada.
27:30
And like, I was OK in school. Like I did good marks in school.
27:33
But where I, where I'm from, people kind of just grow up to
27:37
just do whatever their dad does right, or, or, or, or basically
27:40
right, like, and maybe if you're good in school, you become a
27:42
school teacher or something. But to me, from the young, from
27:46
a young age, like watching Star Trek and reading, you know,
27:50
science fiction novels, I was like, hell, no, I'm, I'm getting
27:53
out of here. I'm skiing the world, like I'm
27:56
exploring. So even though I grew up poor
27:58
and kind of isolated, you know, as soon as I was done
28:01
university, I was out traveling the world and I was out, you
28:05
know, living life and exploring. And I did that for most of my
28:09
20s, kind of delayed my, my career a little bit.
28:15
But, you know, it's just how it was.
28:17
But, but that's, that's just who, who I am.
28:20
And I'm, I'm still kind of like that.
28:22
And, and now I'm able to do it a little bit in this Bitcoin thing
28:25
where I'm able to like scratch that explorer itch, you know, a
28:32
little bit more virtually and philosophically and through this
28:37
community. So I'm just predisposed.
28:39
I'm just lucky. It's pretty, it's pretty nuts,
28:41
man. And you can and you can, you can
28:44
do it all from the comfort of your own mind really, you know,
28:48
and, and and it just gets amplified when you're in and
28:51
around other Bitcoiners, particularly in, in meat space,
28:55
in, in real life. It's it's like a whole another
28:59
level of energy, which is awesome.
29:01
I got to ask, was your grandfather, like you said, he
29:04
was a lobster fisherman? Is that like kind of the
29:06
deadliest catch type stuff or Yeah.
29:09
My dad. My dad, Well, yeah, my dad is a
29:13
lobster fish. My dad was an interesting
29:15
character, legitimately one of the smartest human beings I ever
29:19
met. My dad was, my dad was a genius.
29:22
This could have been anything like talk about Bitcoiners that
29:25
didn't know they were Bitcoiners like my dad, like, oh, my, my
29:29
dad hated authority, hated people telling him what to do.
29:33
But super curious, super smart, and was the type of guy and I
29:38
got a touch of this more than a touch.
29:39
I got a lot of it from him when he grabs on to something,
29:43
there's no, he does not let go. So, so my dad after after he
29:48
retired from from lobster fishing and and no, it wasn't
29:50
like the deadliest catch type thing because just the way
29:53
Canada is like lobster is pretty close to the shore.
29:56
Crab fishing is because is a little bit more like the
29:59
deadliest catch is crab fishermen, not not lobster.
30:02
And that's in Alaska. I'm from the East Coast of
30:04
Canada. So it was a the the the waves
30:07
aren't nearly as high. The whether it's not nearly as
30:11
bad. My dad did fish crab as well
30:14
too, but nowhere not not like the deadliest catch thing,
30:16
nowhere near as dramatic as that.
30:19
But anyway, getting back to my dad, yeah, he was just one of
30:23
those guys that anything he wanted to put his mind to, he
30:26
just go full on. And he retired when he was about
30:30
60 from, from lobster fishing, sold his business and just kind
30:33
of took up guitar playing. You know, he's kind of done it a
30:36
little bit before when I was a kid, but not, not that much.
30:39
He kind of started in his late 40s, early 50s, you know,
30:42
playing around with local friends, you know, with his
30:44
friends and stuff. And, you know, by the time he
30:47
was like 65 years old, he was like almost a professional
30:50
guitar player. Like he was like really, really,
30:52
really good at playing the guitar just just because like,
30:56
he's focused in on stuff like that, right.
30:58
And, you know, I guess I'm lucky enough that I kind of got a
31:01
little bit of that bug and, you know, trying to focus it on this
31:06
magic Internet money. Yeah.
31:08
My dad would have been my, my if my dad would have been, you
31:12
know, 30 years old. You know, when the white paper
31:15
came out, you'd be interviewing him, not me.
31:19
It sounds like a very based and oh, you have.
31:22
Oh, dude, you have no base. You have no idea.
31:26
Like this guy, like in his 60s was still like rappelling down
31:30
mountains and but he taught survival courses, the gun safety
31:35
like you just like a modern, a modern day like Renaissance man,
31:40
like it just could, could do anything he put his mind to and
31:44
become an expert at it. And that doesn't mean that he
31:48
was, it was always good. Sometimes he put his mind
31:50
towards negative things and it would get him into a lot of
31:53
trouble. But he was just, you know,
31:56
predisposed, like you were saying before, like that little
31:58
bit of autism that we all have. It just sounds like a like a
32:02
man, basically. It just sounds like what the the
32:05
ideal, the ideal what what what we all should be striving to is
32:09
just feeding our curiosity and not being afraid to, yeah, go
32:14
around that band and check things out and be proven wrong
32:18
or be proven right, whatever it is.
32:20
And and certainly not listen to people that are politicians.
32:30
I don't know, just blanket that they're all just, you know,
32:33
like, yeah, we just where are those people gone?
32:37
And mastery, you know, like, like I, I think a lot of people
32:41
in our community, we, we value mastery.
32:44
We we value becoming excellent at what we do.
32:48
Yeah. Like, like we take pride in in
32:51
like you take pride in, in your podcast.
32:53
You want it to be better all the time.
32:55
You're not just doing it for the sake of doing it.
32:59
Well, if I was better all the time, I'd probably have video to
33:03
be honest. But I.
33:04
Yeah, well, that's because no, dude, it's the no, because you
33:08
don't. I mean, I don't know.
33:10
I don't know. I don't know you.
33:11
I've never met you before before today.
33:13
But like I've listened to you like 100 hours.
33:15
I my impression of you and here I am like, I don't know who I'm
33:20
just, I'm just a guy. You're not, you're not here for
33:23
the views. You're not here for the listens.
33:26
Your mastery is. You're here to learn and and
33:29
you're here to spread signal. I, I, I know you are.
33:32
So you're my, when I say mastery and I'm using you as an example
33:36
of mastery, like, yeah, maybe you're not optimizing for
33:40
YouTube clicks, but you're optimizing for something else.
33:45
And I know that. Yeah.
33:47
Well, that is true. That is true.
33:49
It's, it's, it's that, it's just that curiosity check in, you
33:53
know, and, and dude, it's, it's, it's a giant cheat code, to be
33:57
honest. Like you can chat to people from
33:59
all walks of life and you know it.
34:03
You're right though, Like there's, there's loads of, of
34:08
bitcoiners that I know that are just hell bent on demanding
34:14
more. A fellow fellow Canadian, Neil
34:21
Young, you know, and let's just sort of sweep his nonsense,
34:27
Spotify bullshit that he did and the Rogan comments that he had.
34:31
But he has a quote, demand more, demand more.
34:35
And I, I really dig that, obviously dig his music a lot.
34:40
But yeah, man, demand more. And I think that's what a lot of
34:43
bitcoiners do. They demand more of themselves
34:47
first and foremost, then they demand more of others around
34:51
them, particularly if they're working with them, integrating
34:54
with them. And they demand more of their
34:57
situation, of their of. And so they're not, they're not,
35:00
they're willing to go out and actually do something about it,
35:04
you know, rather than just. Demand more when you demand more
35:09
and you understand proof of work, right, that that that's
35:14
cheat code, man. Like you mentioned a cheat code
35:17
like demanding more and not being afraid to work and
35:22
understanding that in order to get places you need to work.
35:27
Yeah, it's not hard, is it? It's.
35:29
Not hard, right? Right.
35:31
So, you know, one of your, your questions that you usually ask
35:36
on your podcast, like what, what does Bitcoin mean to you?
35:38
And stuff like isn't that just it isn't that what Bitcoin kind
35:41
of means is like demanding more and proof of work?
35:46
Yeah. And seeing, seeing where that
35:48
takes you, right. Like that, That's that's just
35:50
it, man. So like, I don't no one knows
35:54
that the future is going to hold, but I'd rather put place
36:00
my bets on the team that that's full of guys that understand how
36:05
to work, are really curious and demand more from society in
36:09
themselves. Sounds like a pretty nice place
36:13
to live to be honest. Not a bad place, not a bad place
36:16
to be, right? Your Twitter handle is the rule
36:21
is broken. And I presume that's in
36:24
reference to Fiat and that notion of showing up to.
36:30
There's an Alan Watts quote, I'm pretty sure, where he talks
36:33
about running out of money. Like you might have been
36:38
referencing a moment in the 20s or something, but he talks about
36:43
how an economy just ran out of money and all of a sudden, like
36:47
we ran out of jobs or we ran out of work to do or whatever it
36:52
was. And then he uses that analogy to
36:56
talk about like, it's kind of like showing up to a building
36:58
site and saying that we've run out of measurement, or we've run
37:04
out of rulers or we've run out of inches or centimetres.
37:09
And that's kind of stuck with me, although not as articulate
37:12
as I should have, but I I that that rule is broken that that
37:17
measuring stick that we have to measure value and and to to keep
37:22
it a constant. Yeah.
37:25
Is that, is that why you called your Twitter handle that?
37:28
And how do you kind of unpack that?
37:30
Not exactly that, but you we're coming from the same place
37:33
again. You mentioned earlier a few
37:34
minutes ago about like Bitcoin touch points and like kind of
37:38
when I, when I got it and you know, quote UN quote get it if I
37:41
ever, I don't even know if I get it now, but what what certainly
37:44
leveled me up in my Bitcoin understanding was Robert
37:48
Breedlove, one of Robert Breedlove.
37:49
I think Robert Breedlove may have been referencing that and I
37:53
was just listening to one of his podcasts.
37:55
I don't even remember who he was interviewing.
37:57
I'm just listening to I'm taking my dog for a walk.
37:59
And he said it like, if you're given a broken ruler and you're
38:04
told to go measure a table, are you measuring the table or the
38:07
ruler? And it just like I literally, I
38:11
literally stopped walking and I just like, huh, right.
38:16
Like what are we doing here? Like if dollars or whatever Fiat
38:21
dollars, whatever EUR, whatever you want to use, if we're using
38:25
that currency to measure something.
38:29
And that's what all of this all society is based on, you know,
38:34
values like sticker prices, right?
38:36
Like every, every decision we made, not every decision, but
38:39
the vast majority of decisions we make are regarding money,
38:44
right? Like what costs the what costs
38:46
more, what utility you get per dollar, per unit of currency.
38:50
And if that ruler itself is broken, then what are we
38:56
actually doing here, right? And, and Bitcoin is the first
39:02
ruler that can't break, right? So, so I, I don't know what
39:07
Bitcoin is going to reach in dollar terms.
39:09
I, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't care less.
39:11
Like, I don't know, I think the price is down today.
39:13
So maybe it's a good, I don't know, maybe a good time to buy.
39:15
I don't know, maybe not. But it's being measured in
39:20
something that's broken. So what am I actually measuring?
39:24
When you look at the price of Bitcoin, what are you actually
39:26
measuring? You're not measuring the
39:27
Bitcoin, you're measuring the dollar.
39:31
Yeah, and a lot of people that, that that's a hard thing to
39:34
grok, really flipping that on its head.
39:36
Very. Difficult, Very difficult.
39:38
Yeah. Well, for, for me, it, it, it
39:42
took me what like, I don't know how I was in my 40s when I
39:45
figured that out. And, you know, I'm a guy, you
39:47
know, I went to school, I studied economics, I studied
39:49
math. Like, I, you know, I'm not
39:52
saying I'm the, the smartest guy in the room.
39:53
I'm not, but like, you know, I'm, I'm OK and, and, and, and
39:57
I'm, I'm a guy that thinks about money quite a bit.
39:59
I'm, I've been in the fire community for 10 years at this
40:02
point. When, when I finally, when that
40:04
kind of dawned on me, when, when Breedlove said that, it hit me,
40:09
right. So I can only imagine that
40:12
somebody who, you know, maybe they're very artistic and maybe
40:16
they're interested in other things and they don't really
40:20
spend a whole lot of time thinking about money or thinking
40:22
about prices. They're just living day-to-day,
40:25
trying to maximize their happiness.
40:27
Making doing their paintings or playing their guitar or doing
40:30
whatever they're doing, they they don't have time or capacity
40:35
to to think about this thing. And nor should they have to.
40:40
That's they have to because they're not good at it.
40:43
Like go and do something that you're good at.
40:45
Like the money is now taken care of.
40:47
That's the beautiful thing about this thing.
40:49
It's like the money's sorted. If you can just figure out how
40:52
to provide some value and someone will exchange that value
40:55
with you, you're you're golden. Like you're you're good only.
41:01
Are you good? The world is a better place.
41:03
The world is a better place, yeah.
41:05
The world is a better place because you are doing what you
41:08
love to do and what you are good at, so everybody on earth is a
41:13
little bit better off because of what you are doing.
41:19
Man, it's like a total revelation.
41:22
And yeah, it it's frustrating that, you know, the vast
41:28
majority of the world doesn't see that yet.
41:31
You know, there was, there was this article in Zero Hedge last
41:37
week, I think it was. And it was by Hugh Hendry.
41:40
I love him. You know, that guy, the, the
41:43
cantankerous Scott, you know, and, and I used to watch him on
41:47
Real Vision every now and again. You'd be like, man, you're so
41:50
prime for for Bitcoin, like what's going on?
41:53
But he had this one quote in this article and I think it was
41:56
a republished quote. It was like a preamble.
41:59
But Bitcoins fatal flaw, if it has one, is not technological.
42:03
It is revelatory. It shows you the future too
42:05
early and too clearly. And I was like, fuck, you know,
42:12
because as you said, like the world is a better place.
42:16
We've taken care of the money. The world is now a better place
42:18
if you go off and pursue that which you are most interested
42:22
in, good at and contribute the most amount of value to like
42:26
really perfect your craft there. And you can do that.
42:32
You can't do that right now, not to the scale that you probably
42:36
like, but the fact that you can see that future and you just
42:41
think, fire man, come on everyone, let's let's get it
42:43
together. Come on, because this thing
42:45
really does work. It's good.
42:47
We can ZAP people on the Internet for making shit posts
42:51
like this is happening right now.
42:53
Please let me buy your, you know, steak with with these
42:59
stats. Yeah, it's it's such a double
43:04
edged sword, isn't? It, it's not just like the, the
43:08
products that people would produce, but it's the energy
43:12
that they would put out in the world, right?
43:15
Like if, if walking like, like for me, like I love money, Like
43:19
I love money in a, in a unique way, right?
43:21
Like I love studying money. I love talking about money.
43:24
But if I didn't have that, I would probably like be a dog
43:28
Walker. I just love dogs, right?
43:31
So I, I love my dog. I love everybody's dog.
43:33
Like I'm just, I, I, I love dogs.
43:35
If my job, if my life was just walking dogs all the time, I can
43:40
only imagine like how happy I would be all the time.
43:44
And then every single interaction I would have with
43:47
another human being all the time, I'd be so much happier,
43:53
Right. And, and, and a lot of people
43:55
don't really like dogs. They only really like walking
43:57
dogs. So that's fine.
43:58
That's cool. Go do whatever you're good at.
44:00
Like my dad was playing the guitar.
44:02
I hate playing the guitar. I hate doing music.
44:04
I have no talent whatsoever. But if my dad was only playing
44:07
guitar all the time, that's all he did.
44:11
He'd be happy all the time, right?
44:13
He'd just be. You'd be such a happier person,
44:15
and you'd go around society just being happy all the time.
44:19
So we got a society full of people doing what they love,
44:22
mastering their craft. So yes, creating products like,
44:26
like you mentioned, the steak. Well, yeah, the the farmer who
44:29
loves to farm, who loves his cattle, who loves working on the
44:33
farm. He's going to have the best
44:34
steak, I guarantee you. But he's also going to walk
44:37
around town with a smile on his face because he doesn't have to
44:40
worry about like all these other things that the current system
44:46
forces us to worry about. Well, it prevents you also from
44:49
it. Prevents you.
44:51
Taking a path that you know may promise a little bit of extra
44:55
money, right? So in Fiat, you know, if you're
44:58
interested in like farming or or whatever, generally the most
45:05
amount of money that can be made in that space is like you can't
45:09
apply your skills on the ground to nurturing the animals.
45:12
You've got to go into the office and figure out strategic ways in
45:16
which to scale your business. So you get further and further
45:20
away from that core love that in like you originally got
45:24
interested in if you become a, a mat, like if you're a writer,
45:28
you might scale all the way up to an editor of a, of a
45:31
magazine, But now you're not writing as much.
45:34
You're editing people's writing. You're, you know, you're doing a
45:39
lot of the administrative work, the, the, the, the, the
45:42
marketing and shit like this. And you get further and further
45:45
away from that original love of whatever it was.
45:50
Whereas with Bitcoin, you know, and that sound money,
45:53
particularly if it, if it appreciates in hardness over
45:56
time, well then you can just stay being a, a whatever it is,
46:01
flippin burgers or, you know, whatever.
46:04
And, and those people that are actually genuinely good at that
46:06
shit, they'll they'll go and do that shit.
46:10
Yeah. There's no pressure really to to
46:12
sort of. Yeah.
46:14
And related to what you're saying, and it's, it's, it's
46:16
even worse when you really come to think of it like how many
46:18
people over the past 20 years or so have gone into financial, the
46:24
financial industry, like the, the, you know, venture capital
46:28
or working at a bank or whatever, like an investment
46:31
firm when they would be so happy if they were helping people, you
46:35
know, they'd be so happy if they were doctors.
46:38
But because they're really smart, because they are the
46:41
smartest of the smart, they go into these financial fields
46:45
because that's where you make the most money.
46:48
So. How much?
46:49
How much have we lost? How many of these people you
46:53
know? Yeah, yeah.
46:57
You know how many, how many P how many fantastic scientists,
47:01
doctors, you know teachers, you know, teachers like I I don't
47:07
know what it's like where you are, but but I know teachers
47:09
over here don't make a ton of money.
47:11
Teachers are super underrated. Super underrated.
47:15
They're super underrated. So we're not getting how many,
47:17
how many people have gone into financial careers because
47:22
they're good at school and they they make, you know, they can
47:25
make a lot of money going into finance, but in their heart they
47:29
wanted to be a great seven math teacher.
47:34
How many imagine if we had an extra 100,100 thousand million,
47:40
whatever the number is, all these like brilliant, passionate
47:44
math teachers, How far would society be?
47:49
How much further? Well, yeah, I mean, gosh, our
47:53
literacy and numeracy rates would be through the roof, but
47:56
and then what? And and we'd have happier kids.
47:59
Well, would, yeah, we'd we'd be on Mars or yeah, exactly.
48:02
Just happier kids would be cool actually to be honest.
48:08
Yeah, yeah. It, it, it's, I mean it, it's
48:12
we're early to this thing, right, to this Bitcoin thing,
48:15
you know, like you know, everybody, every single person
48:18
that you've interviewed and every person you ever will
48:20
interview will always say that they were late to Bitcoin
48:23
because Satoshi himself was late to Bitcoin, right.
48:26
Satoshi thought he was late to Bitcoin, but when you zoom out,
48:30
when you zoom out a little bit, you realize just how early we
48:33
are. We actually are and here we are
48:37
on AI. Guess it's a Wednesday for you,
48:39
but it's a Tuesday for me and, and we're talking about this
48:42
thing in the middle of the day and, and you know, this is how
48:46
early we are. I'm in the future.
48:48
Or you're listening, are you're listening to this right now?
48:51
It's in your earbuds right now. If you're listening to this
48:52
right now, you're early. You're early like.
48:57
Definitely early. If you're listening, that's
48:59
exciting. Yeah, it's discovering Bitcoin.
49:01
We're we're still discovering Bitcoin, right?
49:03
We're, we're still like dreaming about what this thing could
49:07
potentially do. And you know, and it might be
49:12
kind of sad to think that we're probably not going to see it in
49:16
our lifetime. Maybe.
49:17
I mean, I hope so. I, I'm hopeful.
49:19
I, I want to see it and I hope I have a long time left on this
49:23
earth. But you know, I'm, I'm pretty,
49:27
I'm, I'm OK with the fact that I'm probably not going to see
49:30
it, But I'm, I'm just so lucky and honored and privileged to be
49:37
here today to be able to do this stuff now like it.
49:42
I, I can't like I'm, I'm so blessed.
49:46
You just have to make sure you reincarnate in a couple of
49:49
decades. Yeah, well, you know, centuries.
49:53
No, check in, see what's going on.
49:56
Just try and remember. That's the thing you got to
49:58
remember. Quick break.
50:00
Just to say, if you're enjoying the show and digging what you
50:03
hear, please consider supporting discovering Bitcoin by shooting
50:06
Boost and sending or zapping the show Some stats.
50:10
If you're listening via podcasting 2 point O apps such
50:13
as Fountain, Pod, Verse, or Breeze, it's easier done than
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said. All you got to do is tap the
50:19
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50:23
you're listening. Alternatively, if you want to
50:25
ZAP me direct via a lightning address, please send zaps and
50:29
sats or zaps of sats in support of the show to Discovering
50:34
Bitcoin at primal.net. Thank you for listening and
50:39
thank you for your support. How has discovering Bitcoin
50:44
changed you? Not all positive, right?
50:49
Like I, I obviously knew you were going to ask that question,
50:51
but and I was thinking about it and the obvious answer is kind
50:55
of the stuff that we've been talking about for the past half
50:57
hour, right? Like low time preference,
51:00
hopeful for the future, surrounding myself with
51:03
individuals like the guys that I've met mostly mostly guys,
51:06
just few girls, but for sure like it definitely mostly guys.
51:11
I just these people are my friends now of the most
51:14
brilliant high integrity people I've ever met are now part of my
51:18
my circle. You know, that's changed me.
51:24
I've always been a little bit skeptical the way I looked at
51:26
the world. So I know a lot of people that
51:28
that that's a very common answer when they're asked how has
51:31
Bitcoin changed them? Like, oh, I got see the world a
51:34
little bit different. I guess that's true for me as
51:36
well. I do see the world a little bit
51:37
different, but I was kind of already on that stuff already.
51:41
So it hasn't changed me that in that way, But has it has been
51:46
good? Definitely.
51:47
I obviously really good. I'm like I said, I'm honored and
51:50
privileged and proud to be here, but it hasn't all been great how
51:55
Bitcoin has changed me. Like I'm definitely, I've lost a
52:00
lot of friends over the past few years since I got into Bitcoin
52:04
because I just can't like I just can't do it.
52:10
And even at work, like I like I have a regular office job that,
52:13
you know, I'm, I have a good career, I'm doing something I
52:16
love. I'm doing something I've studied
52:17
for a long time and professionally I can connect
52:21
with people fine talking about my work fine.
52:25
I love it. But personally, like, similar to
52:29
like how you were saying that when you're at the party and you
52:31
just kind of sit in the corner. I now find myself like that in a
52:35
lot of situations where my entire life I was never like
52:40
that. I'm very extroverted.
52:44
You can probably tell just by talking to me.
52:46
Like I, I'm, I'm not shy at all. Like I'll talk to anybody about
52:49
anything at any time, but I don't, I'm, I'm certainly not as
52:58
not as friendly. I can't say it, not as friendly,
53:00
but I'm just more skeptical of people And I just don't have the
53:06
patience or the time to engage with those normie conversations
53:12
like I used to 5-6 years ago before I got into Bitcoin.
53:16
And that's kind of sad actually. Like, I, like, I, I, I, I miss
53:22
that. Like I I I, I miss, I miss some
53:25
of my normie friends, but I, I, I just can't.
53:29
I'm just not that person anymore.
53:33
Yeah, well, you grew, you evolved and yeah, it kind of
53:38
sucks. Yeah.
53:40
That they haven't. I mean, did you try they, you
53:49
know, maybe did you pull the fuck out of the me Bitcoin
53:52
stuff? You're like, oh man.
53:54
Not really. It's not them, it's me.
53:57
Right. It's me.
53:59
Like I just don't. I just can't And, and, and and
54:05
you know, it is my fault. Like I should be more
54:07
understanding and I should be more ancient and I am patient in
54:10
a lot of ways, but I just can't be around it.
54:14
Like the infighting, the fighting over the dumb stuff.
54:17
And maybe some of this has to do with the way society has changed
54:21
post COVID and not just Bitcoin. It just so happens that in my
54:24
case, those two things coincide where I just kind of found
54:27
Bitcoin at the time that COVID was going on.
54:30
The politicization of everything.
54:32
The everything is now binary. You're either A or B and that's
54:37
it. Like if you're not all the way
54:39
one side, that means you're definitely all the way the
54:41
other. Like I just can't be around
54:44
that. Like, and, and I'm not blaming
54:48
anyone but myself. And I've thought about it long
54:52
and hard. Like, I don't know if I want to
54:54
change. Like I, I, I, you know, I'm in a
54:56
lot of ways I'm happier now than I've ever been.
54:59
It's just tragic that like, I've lost a lot of friends.
55:05
I mean, I've made lots and, and that's great.
55:08
So, you know, net, I'm probably up, but there's definitely like
55:14
some sadness there. Yeah, I it's just your Dharma
55:19
you just got to you just you're doing what you're you're doing
55:25
in order to, you know, be in harmony with who you are, I
55:28
suppose. Yep.
55:31
And sucks to suck. That's me, yeah.
55:36
And some people can do it, some people can do it.
55:38
And yeah. And, and I can do it for a
55:40
little while, like a, like American football.
55:42
I do, I, I, I pretty much stopped watching sports.
55:45
And I, I don't know if that's just me growing up and I don't
55:48
know if that's the Bitcoin thing, but it does kind of
55:50
coincide a little bit. But from time to time on Sunday,
55:53
Sunday afternoon, I do like watching American football, you
55:57
know, still a little bit. But then I, I, you know, I, I go
56:01
to work and water cooler talk and they're talking about the
56:05
big game and I'm like, it's like, kind of like, OK, you
56:09
watch the game. A little bit of escapism is
56:11
good, like great. But to have that like a part of
56:16
your personality, you know, like what?
56:18
Or to let it affect your entire week, you know, like these
56:21
people invest their entire week and then mood based on, yeah,
56:26
these dudes running around on the on the field.
56:29
It's it's pretty retarded to be honest.
56:33
Yeah, yeah. Like I I get the the
56:34
entertainment value. Of totally.
56:36
That's great. I get that.
56:37
And here we are talking about mastery and we're talking about,
56:40
you know, excellence and all that stuff.
56:42
Well, those, those athletes, regardless of the sport, like
56:44
there is mastery and excellence and there's an appreciation that
56:48
you can watch people who have devoted their life to perfecting
56:52
a craft and they have become the best ever.
56:55
You know, at that specific thing that that's a wonderful thing to
56:58
appreciate and to enjoy and to watch.
57:01
But it's a little bit different thing when you know your, your
57:05
whole personality is based on that is what somebody else,
57:10
somebody else's mastery of something else.
57:13
I, I can't go there. It's weird.
57:17
Yeah, you, you can't do it. It, it, it's such a hollow,
57:20
shallow activity, a place to put your energy.
57:24
It's, it's really, it's really not not satisfying at all.
57:28
It's satiating at all, but you can't admire the certain people.
57:33
I mean, when when it comes to sport and stuff, you know, I
57:39
can't even have like water cooler talk with folks at work
57:42
because they're not into motorsport.
57:48
And I like to look at the most like that.
57:49
There's this event called the King of the Hammers.
57:51
I don't know if anyone, if you you've ever heard of that, but
57:54
they go to this place called Johnson Valley in California and
57:57
they literally build an entire town from scratch in the middle
58:03
of the desert. They've got starlinks, all of
58:06
these UTVUTVS big that they called ultra fours 44 hundreds
58:12
as these massive 4 Wheeler rock crawler speed racing things.
58:17
And this event goes over the over like a week and talk about
58:21
a low tide preference event, but the the actual day itself.
58:24
So this year they ran it a few weekends ago and it was the
58:27
longest race in the history of the sport, was like 20 years old
58:30
now, and it was 13 hours long. So 13 hours in a single cab or
58:36
maybe a jewel if you've got a navigator and you're trying to,
58:40
you know, navigate your way around like literal mountains,
58:44
rocks, the size of your house, all of this stuff.
58:48
And it's a very entertaining watch.
58:51
It's a lot. It's a slow burn.
58:52
It's like watching Test cricket. I know you're Canadian, so you
58:55
probably won't get that, but the, the, the point is that
59:01
like, that's entertaining and that's excellent.
59:04
You know, that that sort of juices my, my gears on the
59:07
weekend. And but then, yeah, it's, it's
59:11
like Bitcoin. Like even within Bitcoin
59:13
circles, you can't talk about it.
59:15
But yeah, like you, you have these people in your life and
59:21
they sort of come and go. And yeah, you know, you can't
59:27
really, I don't know if it's, it's, it's a matter of just
59:30
dropping the mile that you're just like, look, just not, you
59:34
know, having, you're not catching up to me or you just,
59:36
we're just not exchanging the right energy right now.
59:39
And that, that's cool. You know, we'll get back.
59:41
I I love some friends during the COVID thing.
59:43
And so it's like, yeah, all right, Well, all the best, you
59:48
know? Yeah, yeah.
59:51
But but there is sadness to that in some way, right?
59:56
It's not. I get what you're saying though,
59:59
like it's growth like and there needs to be discomfort in order
1:00:03
for there to be growth. And you can't hold on to things
1:00:06
that are holding you back. And it doesn't necessarily mean
1:00:10
that these people are these things are actively trying to
1:00:13
hold you back, but they are rather they want to or they
1:00:18
don't and that you have to move past that to grow.
1:00:23
I get it, but it does. You know, it does make me sad,
1:00:28
like it really does. Yeah, you got to shed your skin.
1:00:32
Yeah, yeah. You know what do you wish more
1:00:38
people knew about Bitcoin? Just how cool the community is,
1:00:46
right? Like, like I recently did a
1:00:48
podcast, the home mining podcast.
1:00:53
One of the, one of the parts of Bitcoin that resonated with me
1:00:55
like right away was the mining stuff.
1:00:59
And, and, and maybe it's my background, maybe it's my
1:01:03
interest, like, I don't know, whatever it whatever it was.
1:01:07
And I'm not super technical. I'm not really like work with my
1:01:09
hands type of guy. So maybe that part of Bitcoin,
1:01:13
it's a challenge for me. Like the, the, the home mining
1:01:16
stuff is, is it's, it's a little bit more out of my comfort level
1:01:21
from technical side. So it was a good challenge for
1:01:24
me, but it was something I've always liked was the whole
1:01:26
mining stuff. So like up here in Canada, it's
1:01:28
cold. So I've been running a Bitcoin
1:01:31
miners to heat up my place now for years.
1:01:34
Ever since. Awesome.
1:01:36
Yeah, it's just something I. Love doing, does it legit work
1:01:39
like it genuinely. Yeah, I dude, like it's cold.
1:01:43
This has been like a cold winter this year and I have yet to turn
1:01:46
on my traditional heating at my at my house.
1:01:50
It's not come on yet. I've only, it's only been
1:01:53
Bitcoin. It's only been my Bitcoin miner
1:01:56
that has kept my place warm since November, October whenever
1:02:00
I turned it on. And is it noisy?
1:02:04
It's right there. I think it's about like I don't
1:02:06
know how many meters away from me here, maybe 3 or 4 meters
1:02:09
away. So if it was noisy, it would
1:02:11
pick up the, it would definitely pick up the mic.
1:02:14
No, it's not noisy. Now I have a good one like I
1:02:17
have a good one like shout out to Dave, my buddy Dave, who he
1:02:19
made it for me. Like he sold it to me at cost.
1:02:22
Like Dave's a great guy. Also shout out to Twan if you're
1:02:26
if you're interested in anybody interested in like home heating
1:02:29
256 heat, my buddy Twan will hook you up, but he's the best
1:02:33
in the business. He makes the best, the best
1:02:35
stuff there is. Anyway, the home mining stuff.
1:02:38
I was on the home mining podcast and I was just explaining to the
1:02:42
host like to SAT's like the home mining guys are just like the
1:02:46
most positive. First of all, Bitcoiners in
1:02:48
general are already a pretty positive group because of the
1:02:51
stuff we talked about before, right, that we've been talking
1:02:54
about. We're already optimistic.
1:02:56
We're hopeful. We're we want excellence in the
1:02:59
world and of ourselves. We're constantly striving to get
1:03:01
better. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
1:03:04
The whole mining guys are on another level of positivity,
1:03:08
like they're constantly trying to trade ideas and help each
1:03:13
other out and trying to fix problems all the time, trying to
1:03:17
make things more efficient all the time.
1:03:20
And that little sub community of Bitcoin, it's just so rich in
1:03:29
positive vibes that I, I just can't explain it.
1:03:33
Like, and it just makes me so happy to be around.
1:03:36
Like I'm lucky enough that like I got a group of friends here in
1:03:38
Ottawa that, you know, four or five of the guys are all home,
1:03:42
Dave being one of them, like the guy who made my machine really
1:03:45
into that stuff. We go for wings from time to
1:03:46
time and it's just like the vibes are so positive.
1:03:53
Yeah, you just, you know, feeling so much better.
1:03:56
So good. And, and So what I wish people
1:03:59
knew more about Bitcoin was was that was and, and I'm not saying
1:04:03
that like the home mining crew, that community is the only one.
1:04:06
I I know there's lots of little sub some parts of the Bitcoin
1:04:11
space. It's a big thing, this Bitcoin
1:04:13
space, but we're not all degen traders who just care about
1:04:17
number go up or whatever. You know, like there's so much
1:04:22
integrity and there's so much positivity in this space that I,
1:04:26
I just wish that people knew more about that, you know, and,
1:04:30
and yeah, like the, the, the, the and the the kind of looking
1:04:35
decades in the future about sound money and how it's going
1:04:38
to fix the fix the money, fix the world.
1:04:39
Yeah, of course that's super important.
1:04:41
And and I know a lot of your guests, that's the type of stuff
1:04:43
they talk about and, and I agree with that wholeheartedly.
1:04:46
Like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but even more on a micro scale
1:04:50
than that. There are a lot of cool people
1:04:53
in this space, super high integrity, super positive, super
1:04:57
cool people. And I wish that the general
1:05:01
population, the non Bitcoiner population just really realized
1:05:06
how positive we are and how cool we're not that cool.
1:05:10
We're kind of nerdy, but cool in our own way, right?
1:05:14
So that's, that's what I wish. And the only way to to fix that
1:05:18
is to go out there and to engage with people and, and Bitcoiners
1:05:22
in general, we're not the best at that.
1:05:25
Like, I know you, you're pretty good at it.
1:05:27
I'm pretty. I'm relatively good at it on on
1:05:29
a behind a mic I'm fine. Well.
1:05:31
Behind a mic, you're fine, but like OK, but you're but but it's
1:05:35
important. Like how many people in the
1:05:38
space have like heard one of your podcasts and inspired them
1:05:42
to start a meet up or inspired them to start something?
1:05:45
Probably a lot more than you'll ever know, but generally
1:05:51
speaking, as a as a group, bitcoiners are not great at
1:05:55
engaging with people. We're just not.
1:05:59
But we have to do it. We and, and we need to do it a
1:06:03
little bit more and more and more and create more and more
1:06:05
positive interactions with people And, and I know as a
1:06:08
bunch of guys, you know, have fun staying poor like that crew.
1:06:12
And I love those guys like I'm friends with a lot of those
1:06:14
guys. I love them to death, but we we
1:06:16
do need ambassadors and bridge builders and communicators and
1:06:22
teachers kind of expose the rest of the the non Bitcoin world to
1:06:29
the positivity that we as Bitcoiners experience on a
1:06:33
day-to-day basis. Yeah.
1:06:36
And we all, we all have a role to play.
1:06:38
This is true. This is so accurate, 100%.
1:06:42
So one of the one of the reasons I mean of the pod is it it, it's
1:06:46
a nice way to get to understand Bitcoin by getting to understand
1:06:50
who people are in and around it. And there's not a single asshole
1:06:55
I've had on this pod. Maybe one or two, who knows, I
1:07:01
don't know. But if they are, then they're
1:07:03
just an asshole bitcoiner. And that's that's OK.
1:07:06
Listen an an asshole theatre. But it's true, right?
1:07:11
Like I'm like legit, like not just your guests, but just
1:07:15
people that you've met in the Bitcoin space.
1:07:18
There's not that many of them that I can honestly say that I
1:07:21
got bad vibes from, you know, true that you, you meet someone
1:07:26
at a Bitcoin event and you're like, yeah, not my tribe.
1:07:32
It happens. It happens, but not often.
1:07:36
But not often that is true. That's the beautiful thing.
1:07:40
That's the beautiful thing. And so you're right, you're 100%
1:07:42
just keep building that bridge, get out there and, and expose
1:07:48
that notion of the community and the high vibes of the community,
1:07:53
the positivity and the sort of the can do attitude.
1:07:58
But it, it is, it sounds cheesy, but it's, it's so true.
1:08:01
Like we're just Yep, cool, let's go get this done.
1:08:05
And yeah, I dig that. I dig that.
1:08:08
Right. Well, you've inspired me to be a
1:08:09
little bit more in my own community, although I'm just
1:08:12
constantly worried about 5 dollar $10 range tax anyway.
1:08:18
I know, I know, trust me. It's something that I think
1:08:21
about all the time and I get people kind of talking to me
1:08:24
about it all the time. But you know, it's one of the
1:08:27
reasons why I reached out to you was because 2026, it was kind of
1:08:32
like my New Year's resolutions. Like I have to get out there
1:08:34
more. Like I have to put my my real
1:08:37
name out there. I have to put my face out there
1:08:39
because if not me, then who? Right.
1:08:43
Yeah. And, and you're doing your part.
1:08:45
You're, you're hosting your, you know, you're, you're doing your
1:08:48
podcast. You've touched a lot of people.
1:08:51
Like, and I know I'm doing a little even before, you know,
1:08:54
before talking to people on the podcast.
1:08:56
I, I, you know, I try to engage. Like I go to conferences, I, I
1:09:00
host the local meet up. Like I've created some stuff for
1:09:03
Bitcoin magazine and stuff. I've done some things over the
1:09:06
past few years, but I, I realized, you know, coming into
1:09:11
the new year that I have to do more.
1:09:13
And for me, doing more is literally putting my real name
1:09:16
out there, putting my face out there.
1:09:18
And yeah, I got nothing but respect for the people who, you
1:09:24
know, the their name is important, their safety is
1:09:27
important, the privacy is important.
1:09:29
I get it. I understand it.
1:09:32
But if everybody does that, society will still look at us
1:09:37
like we're not right. You're probably right.
1:09:43
You're probably right. So, so there's a balance that
1:09:46
there's definitely a balance. And, and I don't know where that
1:09:49
balance is, but, you know, after a lot of reflection over the
1:09:53
past few months, I, I realized that, you know, one of my skills
1:09:57
is talking and, and, you know, being extroverted and just being
1:10:00
myself, I should it, it should be on me to be out there a
1:10:05
little bit more. Leverage.
1:10:06
Well, thank you. For so.
1:10:08
So thank you for for having me on and you know, for all the
1:10:11
other people who you know, entered to allow me to go on
1:10:15
their show or like I, it's important to me and I and I
1:10:18
really, really appreciate. It Nah, man.
1:10:21
Well, let's not wrap just yet. I've got one more question for
1:10:24
you, which you've kind of already answered at the front of
1:10:27
the pod, but let's do it anyway because I like to close the show
1:10:31
out like this. Yeah.
1:10:34
What does Bitcoin mean to you? Like the one, the one word
1:10:40
answer is like the is hope, right?
1:10:42
Like it's it's hope. It's it's the rallying point.
1:10:50
It's it's the thing that we can, you know, like in in, in Atlas
1:10:56
shrugs, the Gulch, right, the place, Bitcoin is the place to
1:11:02
get us all together, the builders because we need we, we,
1:11:07
we, there's work to be done right now, like things are, are
1:11:11
are not going great out there. In case you guys haven't
1:11:14
noticed. You know, I'm hopeful.
1:11:15
I'm, I'm, I'm positive, I'm hopeful and not, you know, I'm
1:11:18
trying, but there's work to be done.
1:11:22
And to me, Bitcoin is the rallying point.
1:11:28
It's the lighthouse and if we get enough people to see the
1:11:35
lighthouse, no matter what angle they're coming at it from,
1:11:39
right? If they're coming at it from the
1:11:40
energy side, they're coming at it from the monetary side,
1:11:42
they're coming at it from the home mining side, they're coming
1:11:45
from the spirituality side. They're coming from the, you
1:11:48
know, Bitcoin is time side, the right whatever, but they're all
1:11:52
coming at Bitcoin from their own way.
1:11:56
But they're all headed in this direction.
1:11:57
And here we are in the virtual world or in meat space, talking
1:12:02
to each other, building together, collaborating with
1:12:07
each other, helping each other out, you know, filling in the
1:12:11
gap here and there, you know, fix the money, fix the world is
1:12:17
real. And, and like, sure, like the
1:12:20
scarcity and perfect money. And it's the first money that,
1:12:23
you know, you can't mess with and you can't.
1:12:26
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
1:12:28
But it's also the rallying point.
1:12:33
Get us all together, Boomer. Thank you so much man for
1:12:39
spending some scarce time find out energy telling us the tale
1:12:42
of how you discovered Bitcoin. Absolute honour to be on with
1:12:45
you. You know, I'm a big fan.
1:12:48
Keep doing what you're doing, man.
1:12:50
You're important to this space.