Latest / Boner and Mirror Tarot / The Ten of Wands Had It Coming
Transcript
- Molly: Hello and welcome to Bona and Mira Tarot, the delightfully irresponsible little sibling of Bona and Mira Tarot. My name is Molly and every week three Tarot cards will end this podcast. One gets fucked, one gets married and one gets pushed off a cliff. It's childish, it is completely subjective and it is surprisingly revealing because if you know me and you know Bona and Mira Tarot, you'll know that I don't believe the Tarot is about predicting the future. It's a mirror. a way of meeting yourself through symbolism and psychology, embodiment and the wisdom of the cards. And Bona Emeritaro takes exactly the same approach, just with a lot more giggling. put three tarot archetypes through the highly scientific and deeply philosophical game of fuck, marry, push off a cliff. Which archetype deserves your undying devotion? Which one's worth a passionate fling and which one absolutely needs to get into the sea? Along the way, we'll explore what the cards reveal about attraction, avoidance, projection, shadow, values, and the wonderfully strange ways we make meaning. Expect depth psychology, archetypes, embodiments, the odd tantric tangents, and plenty of opportunities to laugh at yourself. And if you want to take the game off the podcast and into your own tarot practice, then I've made something for you. A little field guide called Tarot After Dark. It's packed with ridiculous tarot games, guided reflections, explorations of projection and desire. So you can make your own terrible decisions. and then get curious about what the hell that might reveal about you. you can grab it completely free through the link in my show notes or the link in my bio on Instagram. So whether you're here for the psychology, the Tarot or your own deeply irrational grudge against the Seven of Cups, welcome to Bona and Miratorro. Let's shuffle the cards, suspend our dignity, and see who's getting married today. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Bona and Mira Tarot. I am absolutely delighted to be here today with Chelsea from Pip Cards Tarot. What a pleasure and a privilege. Thank you so much for joining me. Yeah, Chelsea, do want to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, your relationship to Tarot and how you make meaning? Chelsey: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me. I'm I'm excited and terrified to see what lineup I'm about to face. I feel a little bit like Katniss going into the Hunger Games. My name's Chelsea, Chelsea Pippin Measy, even. I am a writer and a tarot reader. So my focus with the tarot is on the tarot as a creative tool. So before I was a tarot reader, I was an actor and a writer. I'd spent many years working in publishing with writers, working as a journalist, and by the time I came to the tarot, I had really developed a personal practice of writing from images. A lot of the work that I'd done throughout my life was rooted in. Being inspired by images. I spent a lot of time in art museums, I'd worked in a photo gallery for a period of time, I'd worked in libraries, and I was always pouring over the big coffee table books. And I discovered the tarot through a writer friend and said when she asked if she could practice reading on me, I said, Absolutely not. That's gonna freak me out and give my anxiety like something it does not need to latch on to. And she said, Well, what if you Asked it about the book that you're writing right now. She was like, I really need to practice, so you're gonna have to ask it something. And so I stole my entire personality from that conversation after that. I got a tarot deck the next night, something about looking at the cards in that way, where she invited me to go, Well, what if you asked it about a creative project? I went, my god, I've been looking at images as creative inspiration all this time. And here, just outside of reach, has been a system that I can carry around in my pocket full of inspiring images that I can work with and combine. And so I I I learned to read the tarot as a matter of course from that. I I took a course, I got a a mentor who helped me to read and yeah then started working on what became my second book, Tarot for Creativity, which is a card-by-card guide to using the cards as creative tools. It's got lots of prompts in there for making art, writing playing with your creative intuition, whatever that looks like for you. Sometimes I'm inviting you to dance, which is hilarious because I have no hand-eye coordination beyond my shuffle whatsoever. But yeah, so for me, the tarot functions in my practice as a a channel to creativity, a way to access that part of myself really quickly, bringing up an image and going, what does this inspire me to create? Of course, when When I think about meaning making, one of the things that I think is so beautiful about the tarot is that it can be used in so many different ways, and I'm so in awe of of many of my friends and colleagues and and all of the readers I'm yet to meet who apply tarot as a creative tool by finding their own ways to use it or by by using their own methods. So I'm a believer in all types of tarot meaning making. My personal preference comes down to pulling a card and going, what does this inspire me to make? Molly: Thank you so much. I mean, you know that I love your work. I know exactly where your book is on my shelf. yeah, I'm so deeply honoured that you're here and just your work really brings me back to one of the things that I love the most about Tarot, which is when we approach it in that kind of non cognis centric way, when we're not trying to memorise meanings or trying to pull out what it, you know, I have to know what it means or what is that key word and actually allowing body intuition, creativity to lead the way, which is where I think kind of most of the magic comes from. So very deeply grateful you're here and you said you're nervous about what cards are gonna come up. Are you ready? Shall I shuffle? Chelsey: Yeah, I'm just kind of like, which baby am I gonna have to throw out with the bathwater today? I don't know. Molly: no. Well, one of them will have to go. We'll see. Here we go. This is where we do awkward shuffle pause. I am going to be pulling a card from the deck that I always pull cards from, which is the Light Seers by Chris Ann. So here we go. And you talked about shuffling a little bit. My shuffling has always been absolutely terrible. purely because I've got teeny tiny hands and I, Chelsey: The decks are big. Molly: yeah, and I can't, you know, I really struggle to pull cards and I don't know how people do that like the riffle shuffle. I have no idea how that works. and I've just dropped a load of them. But we have got, here we go, the eight of pentacles. Chelsey: friends. Molly: We have got the king of cups. Chelsey: Mm-hmm. Molly: And we have the ten of wands. Chelsey: Okay, well alright, I'll take that I I know who's going up. Molly: So when that one came out, I was like, well, maybe this might make the decision easier. We don't know what's gonna happen, but I think we Chelsey: Mm-hmm. Molly: have a maybe an idea about the kind of push off the cliff. What are kind of your initial thoughts? Fuck, marry, push off a cliff. Chelsey: Okay, I it it actually feels really easy to me. That Ten of Wands is going so far off the cliff. I have such a complicated relationship with that card, which we can get into. but yeah, I feel it feeling like a one-night stand with the King of Cups wouldn't hurt. And I'm gonna marry that that steadfast Eight of Pentacles. Easy. What about you? Molly: Okay, I mean, that is the quickest decision that we've had so far. I totally agree with you about the 10 of ones and I'm super curious to hear about your, you said you mentioned that you have a challenging relationship with a card. I'd love to hear a little bit more about that. Chelsey: Yeah, I mean, it's a hard card, I think. I and I I have a tendency to find myself in that position. I have an an essay that I've started and returned to multiple times that I want to send out in my newsletter that I've probably had in the drafts for for a year plus about that card and its relationship to burnout. And for me it is such like it it it is the card of taking on way too much and not being able to to handle and hold it all without causing yourself a lot of strain and and then blocking out the view of your life. And I think about that in a creative context a lot because I think that creative people are under so much pressure to produce, produce, produce, produce, produce, say yes to everything, whether it's paying you, whether it's supporting you or not. If you miss the opportunity, you've missed the whole boat. And there's something about that card that speaks to that experience to me about like, well I I didn't feel like I could say no and suddenly now I had the FOMO and now now suddenly I can't let go of this weight and something about I'm I use the Ryderweight Smith almost exclusively in my brain. I love to draw from other decks, but like the imprint on my brain is the Ryderweight Smith. Molly: you Chelsey: So that image to me. He is like back is bowed and it it's it just looks painful. and yet I think that it's a really important teaching tool in the tarot. I'm glad that it exists within the tarot. I think about the the suit of wands a lot as a creative cautionary tale because we start off with so much passion and promise and we get to the six and we're like celebrating that we made something, we created something, we we had a passion for something and we saw it through, but then we almost get too hungry or we forget That now we're supposed to rest, and then we move into the seven, eight, nine, ten, where we end up with just more than we can hold, and it cancels out that passion in a way, because we can't hold it, and so it makes me sad, and also I think it's a really important teacher. So while while I'm saying goodbye, Cyanara, get off the cliff, I'm also like it's kind of important that it's in there. Molly: I think it's one of those, it is definitely one of those difficult things of, and you know, I don't really ever use Oracle decks because I do find that they don't portray that the messiness of lived experience of what it is like to be human and those cards that I'm sure all of us could off the top of our head, pull out those cards, which are the challenging ones, know, ten of wands. Hello Seven of Swords, all of these kind of really difficult ones, but they do teach us something and make us see the kind of hues of lived experience. And I totally feel you on that kind of that burnout experience, especially from the creative perspective, but also I think from kind of societal cultural perspective of how. we're just, you know, we're expected to take things on, take things on, you know, go, go, go. It's a very masculine energy, which the suit of wands is anyway. And we do have that tendency to be people pleasers and to not want to let people down. I also often find myself in a position of 10 of wands. And then I'm like, I, I've really said yes to too many things here. And I'm thinking about like the other options of like, fuck and marry and if there was a different set of cards that we pulled and the 10 of wands was one of them I still think that I would be hesitant to do either with Chelsey: Mm-hmm. Molly: the 10 of wands purely especially marry you know like this is the kind of figure of the 10 of wands is someone that is burnt out has taken on too much and also is so unwilling to ask for help they're like no I've got it all it's absolutely fine I know like whilst drowning like You know that meme where someone's just got their hand out of the water? That's what it feels Chelsey: Yeah. Molly: like for me. Just someone's like, I'm fine. And I really wouldn't value that in a life partner and certainly Chelsey: Mm. Molly: would find it very difficult to be in communication or open communication with someone who is completely unwilling to put the Chelsey: Mm-hmm. Molly: ones down. So yeah, I think it's a totally easy decision. Like, I'm so sorry, off the cliff. Chelsey: Goodbye. Molly: Good bye! I'm super interested in your remaining choices because I don't know if I necessarily agree with you. I'm super interested to hear. So we had the Eight of Pentacles and the King of Cups and I think you said that you would fuck the King of Cups and marry the Eight of Pentacles. Chelsey: He wet. Molly: Yeah, go on, tell me why. Chelsey: I mean this is I knew what my answer was, though I represent I'm working with two very good choices. So that's wonderful. Like I could switch them and be happy. Either way. I like both of these cards a lot. and so I'm like very up for a relationship with either one of them, and I have a relationship with either one of them. I think for me, I I love the King of Cups. He's actually come up a lot for me recently, and like certainly does he signify a lot of qualities that I admire, but I also think he's The ride or wait version. He's out here all alone. There's not room on that raft for Rose and Jack. You know what I'm saying? So there's something about is there room for me in that card? If I'm thinking about like, am I what kind of like lasting relationship am I getting in in with there? And I feel like, you know, it'd be a great date. We'd have a lovely time. I think there'd be a lot of like emotional availability and I'd really like that. But also I'm aware that that's like a tiny platform. that he's on. and so yeah, there's just something that feels a little crunched to me. And I know I would enjoy him. And also what I love about the Eight of Pentacles is that Eight of Pentacles is not going anywhere. There's like I I have some anxious attachment. and I think like there's something about the the eight of pentacles. I mean as again, as a like through that lens of creativity, that to me is the card of continuing to show up to our work, continuing to find our sometimes voice, sometimes our our skill, but there's something about and I and I really believe this. I I'm about to celebrate my 12th wedding anniversary. I I really believe it's like coming back and reshaping and and working and reshaping like there's something what that card to me as a teacher of is is about the like beautiful effort of showing up to our whatever we're crafting. And that is like such a beautiful quality to me. So so to marry into that quality where I know this energy is at work with me, is at work on its its own kind of like path and journey is dedicated. I love it. And I love what that card just like I would marry what that card teaches me about showing up to my own practice as well. Molly: Okay, you've convinced me. Yeah, Chelsey: Ha ha ha. Molly: I feel and I feel convinced because my initial response to the Eight of Pentacles, I think the way that you've kind of expressed it is a really is a I mean, it's just extremely beautiful the way that you expressed it. My first instinct was like, feeling more about like when we look at the card and we're deciding fuck, marry, push off a cliff. I think my one of my initial thoughts is like, what would it also look like in reversed? And is Chelsey: Uh-huh. Molly: that something that I could also handle? Because of course, a relationship really does require us to look at the full spectrum of a person. And I think like a, a someone who's eight of pentacles that is dedicated to the craft of their relationship, absolutely. But then I was thinking about what if, what if the eight of pentacles then turned into somebody who was so dedicated to their work that they then then didn't have room on the raft, right? Like, Chelsey: Mm-hmm. Molly: Like what would that look like? And you know, I've had experiences of people who are super dedicated to what they do. They have a passion and that's, mean, I love someone with a passion, right? Like sometimes I went live on the dating apps and when I'm on the dating apps, if I think I went on a date with someone like a couple of months ago and they genuinely did not have one passion, like what do you do in your free time? I don't really do much. Okay, do you enjoy your job? I don't really enjoy my job. And it was such a turn off and I absolutely, I mean, walked away feeling very deflated from this day because I love it when someone's so dedicated to something. But then there's that kind of just that edge that would worry me of like, okay, is this going to be a situation where we're up late at night looking at emails because we're really focused in on that passion and would we have time to or would they have time to spend in? that building relationship. Chelsey: No, I hear you and I'm I am married to one of those. I'm married to a Capricorn eight of pentacles, like figure for sure. So maybe I'm biased. And like that that's really interesting because I do think that's a like a tension. It's like it's a very real tension. Clearly one that I've I've accepted and chosen in my in my real life and my choice here probably reflects a lot of that. because it is it is it is both like such a beautiful Zach my partner is a is a musician. He's on tour right now as it happens. and and it is like so wonderful and we had a conversation very early on in our Relationship about both of us being creative people and that being something that was so important to us because we we share that value. And also a writer's life is very different than a musician's life. I'm at home a lot. Molly: you Chelsey: And he's away a lot. And there is this dedication to the next gig. Sometimes he can air into that Ten of Wands area for sure. Of Molly: I'm working on work. Chelsey: and now I'm overcommitted, but it's all in this, I also think, really beautiful pursuit of. this dream that he has and this love and passion that he has and still it's a always it's always something that we're navigating. So so I yeah, I love that idea of thinking about the reversal and what you can stand, because it's true. Molly: Yeah, and I think like, I mean, I'm not married, and I'm not anywhere near getting married. But I think certainly it would be something for me to, to, or I have been in a position where I've been in very long term relationship, and you have to really question like, there might not be that it's not that there's something wrong with the relationship, or there's something wrong with the person. But it's just like being really honest with yourself about, this person's kind of their priorities are here. And that's totally okay. It's can I like, would I be able to handle that? And as an anxious attachment person, I would, I mean, I don't know, because I'm not in that relationship. But I think I would maybe be a bit cautious around like, what if I feel like I'm not getting enough time with that person? But you have convinced me enough. Chelsey: Mm-hmm. I mean Molly: You've convinced me enough. Because when you were kind of speaking about like, that commitment, I was only watching a TikTok today where it was like, talking about like one of the most important qualities in love is consideration and like do you continuously like consider and and water the soil of the relationship let's say and I can totally I can totally see how the eight pentacles would would be showing up and re-showing up and you're talking about kind of forging and rebuilding and that brings up the right away Smith right like that hammering into that to that to the that golden coin that pentacle and be and be willing to reshape as well. So, I mean, that was so easy. That was so easy. Chelsey: I've got the seven of pentacles on my earrings right now. I wish I wish it had been the eight, Molly: oooo Chelsey: but there we go. The seven will do. There's only five on there, because like I Molly: I love the seven, you know. Chelsey: d I do too. It's it gets a little bit of a bland rap, I think. People aren't always sure what to do with it. What do you love about it? Molly: For me, the Seven of Pentacles is a really hit on a tendency that I have, which is kind of like the perfectionist tendency. What does success mean to me? And I would say in the last five or six years, I've seen a real shift away from the young girl who needed validation from intellectual success, right? Like, Chelsey: Mm. Molly: at school it was like, wow, you're top of your year. Wow, you're really clever. Wow, you got a first-class degree and da-da-da-da. and then you come into more of an adulthood and those successes aren't as immediate. And I found that so challenging to not see that immediate success. And like, if I don't see immediate success, does that mean I'm unworthy? And those are the questions that were going through my mind. And so the seven of pentacles for me is a real kind of kick up the ass to be like, it doesn't matter. Like what, like let's reframe what success means because underneath that plant, There are so many roots growing that you can't see. And just because the fruit hasn't fruited yet, I mean, I don't know. But just because you can't Chelsey: I love it. Molly: see the fruit yet doesn't mean that it's not there. it consistently Chelsey: Mm. Molly: and continuously reminds me that my tendency is to view success as something that is immediately visible rather than having that patience and that trust of like, okay, I've put the effort in, so. you know, like that also is success and the dedication I have a success just because there isn't like an immediate result. Is it similar to yours? Like your interpretation? Chelsey: Yeah. I love it. Well, I'd never like I'm gonna think about the roots now. I'd never really thought about the roots. A lot of the times I similarly think about that card as this little moment of stasis after a lot of effort. And we kind of, yeah, are at the choice of whether we or not we get to appreciate what whatever we've yielded, or we or we're doing the the sabotage moment of going, well, it's not enough. And I I do think like there is that question within that card, absolutely. But I've never I've never thought about what's what's going on in the roots. So that's gonna stick with me. I really like it in the narrative with the eight, because it does I mean, you talked a lot about effort and dedication there and that idea of we we hit the seven and we go, okay, we didn't get everything that we wanted from the effort. And we get this choice if we follow into the eight of, but there's more I can do with it. I can work with this. We can I can pluck this fruit and I can make this fruit work and I can continue with what I've got. that I think is really beautiful. I'm a big fan of looking at the cards in context of what comes before and after. I will anybody here who knows me or has a reading with me will know that I'll be like, well let's just whip out the whole suit and look at the whole suit in context of this card and then I just make readings last forever but it's fun that way. Molly: Yeah. I think it's so important to look at the context and like the unfolding of the suit. And Chelsey: Mm-hmm. Molly: certainly like, if we're thinking about marrying the eight of pentacles, then we also need to think about like the person who it represents the eight of pentacles probably has been through that unfolding of the suit. Like this is someone who has maybe been through that seven of pentacles moment of going, okay, I've put in loads of effort. I can't see the result. Am I going to continue because I value my own dedication to it and I value the effort that I've put in or am I going to go, nah, well, I can't be asked anymore because I didn't see an immediate result. And again, that's that someone who values the, yeah, like I'm going to come back to the roots again because it's a, it actually is an image in the light seers. It's like someone who's got a really small kind of fruiting plant, but then they can't see the roots, as a reader, can see them of like. the the value being in knowing that the roots are there. Like you can't see them but they're there. So yeah I really I really love that kind of looking at the storyline and I suppose this podcast episode could be like four hours if we were to look at the storyline of all of the other cards. But I'm for forever Chelsey: I'd be here for it. Molly: and ever but I'm going to say that we have absolutely solidified we're going to fuck the king of cups. we're going to marry the Eight of Pentacles and I mean the Ten of Wands, like they had it coming the moment they came out, we're so sorry Chelsey: Yeah. Molly: but bye bye off the cliff. Out. And Chelsey: I'm not even sorry. Get out. Goodbye. I don't wanna see it. I don't wanna think about it. Molly: I've just got this vision of the Ten of Wands being pushed off the cliff but still fucking holding on, still holding on and being like no, even in my last moments I will not yield these wands. Chelsey: Sounds about right. Sounds about right. Molly: maybe it would be a good location device, who knows. But my last two questions for you, and these are questions that I'm going to ask every guest that comes on, is out of the entire tarot deck, who would be the best lover and who is the biggest walking red flag? Chelsey: Whew. Okay. I am a sucker for a knight in shining armor and I am looking at the Knight of Cups right now. And I am a fan. I do think he's on my list. But I also just like have a crush on the Queen of Wands forever and like am very intimidated in like the kind of way where it's like do I want to be you or do I want to love you? yeah Molly: in a bi-panel kind of way. Chelsey: exactly exactly so I feel like she'd be more fun. Molly: She's definitely a dom. Chelsey: yeah. Yeah, if I had to spend my life with one of them, and or even spend the night with one of them, the curiosity Molly: Mmm. Chelsey: would get me with her, I think. Because what on earth would that be like? We'd have to know. Okay, we'll go with Queen of Wands. and walking red flag. Whew, okay. so many, depending Molly: No. Chelsey: on their mood. for me. I mean there's some that go without saying. I feel like like the devil jumps to mind that is like not a quality I wish to invite into my life. some of the obvious negative ones are like popping at me. Five of Swords, but huh, you know. Who I really just, it's funny because I like this card in many contexts, but also if I'm thinking about it in the context of a red flag, the nine of cups, that ego, I don't like it. Bit of a show-off. You know what I mean? Always going on. In Molly: okay. Yeah. Chelsey: in a in many contexts, I like that card. But when I'm thinking about the flips, if I'm in if I'm using your reversal kind of strategy there, I don't like the shadow side of that card at all. Molly: Mm, I totally hear you. I think as well in the the Lightseer's deck, it's like it's it's so the wish come true card and it just gives me a bit of an ick. Chelsey: Mm. Molly: But so like what the most interesting thing is, you said the Knight of Cups, I think he would be my biggest red flag. Chelsey: Ha! Tell me more! Molly: my God, he's such a fuck boy. I've said this in another episode. He's a fuck boy. And he like he would whine and dine you. He would be like, I am you know, heart on my sleeve, like I'm so in tune with my emotions. I've done therapy, I've done it, I finished. And then the moment that he felt attacked in any way or like not even attacked and the moment that you brought something, you're like, hey, I kind of didn't like that. Then like, because he's a knight and because, you know, they act before they speak, he would spiral, I think. I think Chelsey: Yeah. Molly: he's been to like two therapy sessions and he's like, I'm done now, I'm finished. Chelsey: Take your point. Look, I'm living in the fantasy. I had a real thing for Arthurian myth as a child. So, Molly: okay. Chelsey: like, maybe maybe the Queen of Cups can dress up as the Knight of the Queen of Wands can dress up as the Knight Molly: Yeah. Chelsey: of Cups for me. That would be fun. but yeah, I take your point. I think you're probably right. fair. Yeah. It's Molly: But mean, a one night stand, like, you wouldn't have to have that the aftermath of his buggery, Chelsey: Yeah. Molly: I think. Chelsey: It's funny because I I had a tarot teacher really o really early on tell me that the knight like and I still use this imagery a lot. She talked about the knight of wands is the one night stand of the tarot. So when I'm thinking about the fuck boy, I'm thinking about the knight of wands and I'm thinking about my teacher's like voice in my head going and here we have him, the one night stand of the tarot. And so that's that's an interpretation that to me migrates more onto the knight of wands, but this idea of the kind of like faux, emotionally intelligent, yeah, I see it. I see it. Molly: I think that's the thing that gets me. I think the Knight of Wands is a fuckboy, but he knows he is and he doesn't pretend that he's not. And I think Chelsey: There. Molly: you would see and he'd be like, yeah, you're gonna come round and then the next girl's coming round. He would not Chelsey: Mm-hmm. Molly: pretend. Whereas I think there would be something insidious about the way that the Knight of Cups presented himself as this really in tune and emotionally mature person. And then Chelsey: Yeah, I see it. Molly: the facade would crumble pretty quickly, I think. But I very like I hadn't thought of the Queen of Wands and now I think I'm probably gonna dream of the Queen of Wands as Chelsey: May we both. Molly: being the hottest card. We'll see how that dream is tonight, but I'm going to say a massive thank you for all of your wisdom and for being here. I hope you enjoyed playing the game. Yeah and I'm gonna bid our listeners a farewell and we hope to see you next time. Thank you so much. Chelsey: Thanks for having me. Molly: Bye bye. And that is a wrap for this episode of Bona and Mira Tarot. A huge thank you to my guests for joining me and making some truly questionable life choices on behalf of the tarot. If you've enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you subscribed, left a review or shared it with someone who would definitely have an argument with a tarot card. And if you've been listening and thinking, I need to play this game, then good news, I have made you something. Tarot After Dark is my completely free field guide to desire, projection and questionable relationships with archetypes. Inside, you'll find Fuck, marry, push off a cliff, tarot date, red flag, green flag, unfortunately hot, and a whole collection of ridiculous ways to play with the cards. alongside slightly more serious psychology of why these games can actually tell us something about ourselves. Because sometimes deciding that you'd shag the night of ones is just funny, and sometimes asking why tells you considerably more than you'd expect. You can download Tarot After Dark for free using the link in the show notes or the link in my bio. And if that gets you curious about the slightly more serious side of my work, come and find me at Bone and Mirror Tarot, where I explore Tarot through depth psychology, embodiment and transpersonal practices. You can find me on Instagram at at bone and mirror Tarot, where I share readings, workshops and all the ways that I use the cards as a doorway into understanding ourselves a little more deeply. And finally, if you're listening and thinking I would love to come on the podcast and make some terrible decisions of my own, I would genuinely love to hear from you. Send me a message and let's make it happen. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, keep laughing, keep getting curious, and remember, we take the tarot seriously, we just don't take ourselves too seriously.