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Why We Lead the Cheer · Why We Do What We Do

0:03
Speaker 1: You're listening to Why We Do what we Do? Welcome
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Speaker 1: to wh why w h why? W Welcome to Why
0:21
Speaker 1: We Do what we Do. I am your I'm your
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Speaker 1: enthusiastic host Abraham.
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Speaker 2: And I am your stunt work Hoast Shane.
0:30
Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about all of
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Speaker 1: the things that people do and animals do, and then
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Speaker 1: why they do those things. And sometimes we talk about
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Speaker 1: the athletic things that people do that like maybe look
0:42
Speaker 1: a little over the top, but there's like, you know,
0:46
Speaker 1: there's some rationale here, there's some history.
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Speaker 2: Today we're going to talk about cheerleading, which you know,
0:51
Speaker 2: I would imagine it evokes specific thoughts and maybe even scoffs.
0:54
Speaker 2: You might be going, why are we talking about cheerleading
0:56
Speaker 2: on a psychology podcast? But there's a lot of really
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Speaker 2: cool things that come out of this, So I'm really
1:01
Speaker 2: excited to get into the history of it and some
1:04
Speaker 2: of the things that are that are related.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to do those things exactly right. We're
1:09
Speaker 1: going to lead the cheer on this one.
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Speaker 2: We certainly are.
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Speaker 1: with us in tuning in to yet another exciting conversation
1:43
Speaker 1: where we take something and that maybe is exciting and
1:45
Speaker 1: make it mundane. Just kidding, We yeah, but we take
1:49
Speaker 1: a nice scientific approach to understanding things, try and bring
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Speaker 1: humor in our friend circles to that topic. We're happy
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Speaker 1: I would like to, as part of our congratulations, just
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Speaker 1: Probably not?
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Speaker 2: Now, I feel like probably not. I feel like a
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Speaker 2: compass is Earth specific, well planet specific, maybe I don't
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Speaker 2: know either way. Marooned is a great term.
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Speaker 1: It is.
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Speaker 2: I like that one.
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Speaker 1: It's National block it Out Day.
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Speaker 2: I like that. It's National Eating Healthy Day.
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Speaker 1: Okay. The opposite of that is that it's National Nacho's.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Catch twenty two, Mustard plug, good stuff. Maybe you're
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Speaker 1: Oh, I can definitely appreciate that. Don't hit people either
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Speaker 1: while we're talking about it. It is Key Club International Week.
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Speaker 1: Is this Florida Keys.
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Speaker 2: All eight hundred of them? I don't know. Maybe it
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Speaker 2: could be if you were to do a Key Club
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Speaker 1: So fair enough.
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Speaker 2: I like that. It's National cat Week.
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Speaker 1: It is National Advent Calendar Day.
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Speaker 2: National Pet Cancer Awareness Month.
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Speaker 1: Okay, that is important, but it is also Marzapan Week
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Speaker 2: Anytime I hear Marzapan, I think of Homestar runner me too,
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Speaker 2: Hey hay to all bad, Hey Batmand. It's a the
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Speaker 2: National Hospice and palliat of Care Month.
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Speaker 1: Ooh, very important. And then one of our favorites is
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Speaker 1: it is once again World Vegan Month. Give me a
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Speaker 1: V give me an E, which makes a lot of
5:13
Speaker 1: sense for November for a variety of reasons. So anyway,
5:17
Speaker 1: as we mentioned we are talking about cheerleading. Did we
5:20
Speaker 1: mention that I think you did.
5:22
Speaker 2: I think we did. I think we did talk about
5:24
Speaker 2: on top of the show.
5:24
Speaker 1: Well, we're talking about cheerleading. I'm telling you now. If
5:27
Speaker 1: we didn't tell you before, I think we did. But
5:29
Speaker 1: it is not a topic that we have covered yet,
5:31
Speaker 1: and it is in fact a thing that humans do.
5:34
Speaker 1: So in this discussion, we're going to try and answer
5:36
Speaker 1: the question what does the band Bad Brains, Princeton University,
5:41
Speaker 1: George W. Bush, and Hitman all have in common? And
5:44
Speaker 1: by the way, the band's name was not all of
5:46
Speaker 1: those things. The band was Bad Brains, Yes, And then
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Speaker 1: the rest of those things Princeton University, George W. Bush,
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Speaker 1: and Hitman were all separate things, but they all have
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Speaker 1: something in common. Apparently it's related to cheerleading.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's we're gonna go on a wild journey here.
5:59
Speaker 2: So I think you're gonna have fun with this one.
6:01
Speaker 2: It's a little bit different than maybe what you think.
6:03
Speaker 2: So let's talk about what cheerleading actually is. So, by definition,
6:07
Speaker 2: cheerleading is a sport involving the performance of organized cheering, chanting,
6:11
Speaker 2: and dancing in support of a sports team at games.
6:14
Speaker 2: That is one definition of this.
6:16
Speaker 1: So this is in fact a sport and if you
6:19
Speaker 1: ever try and do it, it will rapidly become apparent
6:22
Speaker 1: why it is a sport because it involves some pretty
6:25
Speaker 1: intensive training and exercise. It involves physical exertion and skill
6:31
Speaker 1: in which an individual or team competes against another or others,
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Speaker 1: often for entertainment, although there are also competitive cheering events
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Speaker 1: that happen where they get ranked and get some awards
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Speaker 1: for getting first place and whatnot.
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Speaker 2: Yes, so cheerleading often occurs as two separate activities or
6:50
Speaker 2: two separate there's like two separate camps around this. There's
6:53
Speaker 2: usually cheering for a team at larger sporting events like
6:55
Speaker 2: the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, or you might have like specific
6:58
Speaker 2: football teams or basketball teams that have their own cheerleading teams,
7:02
Speaker 2: or you might have cheerleading competitions where cheer teams compete
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Speaker 2: against one another independent of a team. They might represent
7:08
Speaker 2: a college or like a cheer organization, but they actually
7:11
Speaker 2: engage in competitive activities around cheering.
7:14
Speaker 1: Just for the sake of cheering. Yeah, and again, like
7:17
Speaker 1: this is pretty physically strenuous. You have to train, you
7:20
Speaker 1: have to be in shape, you have to practice, and
7:22
Speaker 1: so it does like really fall in line with other
7:26
Speaker 1: types of sports on that way, and if you don't
7:29
Speaker 1: do those things, there's a pretty high risk of injury.
7:32
Speaker 1: So again, don't just think that you can walk into
7:35
Speaker 1: this sport requires some discipline and training. Right. There are
7:39
Speaker 1: different types of cheerleading, as you mentioned. There's sort of
7:42
Speaker 1: the cheering for team and then cheering for competitive cheering,
7:46
Speaker 1: and of course people who are cheering might do both
7:48
Speaker 1: of those things. There's also recreational cheerleading and this is
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Speaker 1: really non competitive cheering, and this is focused on learning
7:55
Speaker 1: basic skills and having fun. It's like athletic training just
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Speaker 1: to have that athletic training be cheering. And I've heard
8:02
Speaker 1: of people taking like dance classes where they're basically dancing
8:07
Speaker 1: for exercise, So I mean it's not unlike those in
8:10
Speaker 1: the sense that it is still exercise, but in this
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Speaker 1: case it is it is learning these these complex sort
8:16
Speaker 1: of cheer things. But yeah, so this non competitive version
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Speaker 1: of cheering is cheerleading for losers and cowards.
8:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not ready for the big leagues. Just kidding.
8:25
Speaker 2: This is also very difficult and yeah, no power, yea
8:28
Speaker 2: yea joking please.
8:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not a not a loser or a coward.
8:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not a loser coward. We don't want the
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Speaker 2: cheer industry coming after us because they are voracious.
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Speaker 1: Also, I am too much of a loser or a
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Speaker 1: coward to do recreational cheering. I would be very much
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Speaker 1: afraid of injuring myself.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, this is not the sport for me. There's
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Speaker 2: competitive cheerleading, which involves performances and timed routines where stunts
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Speaker 2: and dance routines are scored, usually by some judges. And
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Speaker 2: there are these major competitions, which we will talk about
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Speaker 2: a little bit later.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, almost like a mini gymnastics type of event.
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Speaker 2: Really yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 1: Of course, as we mentioned, there's sideline cheerleading. This is
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Speaker 1: the cheerleading I think most people think of when they're
9:07
Speaker 1: thinking about cheerleading. These are the cheerleaders at sporting events
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Speaker 1: that are there to help encourage the crowd to try
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Speaker 1: and support the local team, to make an enthusiastic show,
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Speaker 1: a spectacle that is sort of part of the entertainment
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Speaker 1: of a sporting event.
9:23
Speaker 2: Right absolutely. And then there's all Star cheerleading, which means
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Speaker 2: that teams come together from different walks of life, they
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Speaker 2: come together, they compete at very high levels, and specifically
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Speaker 2: compete at the cheerleading World's Competition is what it's called.
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Speaker 1: Always to the song All Star by smash Mouth, always
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Speaker 1: called All Start.
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Speaker 2: Which is impressive that we can do so many different
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Speaker 2: routines to the same song.
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Speaker 1: And you might be surprised to learn that cheerleading occurs
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Speaker 1: across like throughout levels of education much like the sports do.
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Speaker 1: So you actually do have cheerleading in grade schools, college,
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Speaker 1: and then you'll have even cheerleading at professional sporting events
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Speaker 1: that are no longer college affiliated. So it spans the
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Speaker 1: entire gamut from just like again, it is a sport,
10:06
Speaker 1: so it spans the gamut from like kids sports in
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Speaker 1: school all the way to professional events right absolutely.
10:13
Speaker 2: Now, in order to I think get an idea of
10:16
Speaker 2: where all of this comes from, we're going to dive
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Speaker 2: into a brief history of cheerleading, and that brief history
10:21
Speaker 2: goes all the way back to sixth century BC. Now,
10:25
Speaker 2: prior to a I know, just a brief history that's
10:28
Speaker 2: not very you know, very far. So prior to a
10:30
Speaker 2: formal development of cheerleading, sporting events and competitions would see
10:33
Speaker 2: large groups of people celebrating their heroes or their teams
10:36
Speaker 2: by chanting, screaming, applauding, so on and so forth. I mean,
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Speaker 2: there has been lots of opportunities over many, many centuries
10:43
Speaker 2: in millennia where large groups of people have gotten together
10:45
Speaker 2: for entertainment purposes. I mean, really great examples are events
10:49
Speaker 2: that took place in the coliseum where there'd be lots
10:52
Speaker 2: of people that would be cheering, but like it would
10:53
Speaker 2: be you know, more violent than maybe like a cheerleading event,
10:57
Speaker 2: but you have people together cheering, applauding, in celebrating the
11:01
Speaker 2: people that they're observing for entertainment.
11:03
Speaker 1: One of our first, if not our very first mini
11:05
Speaker 1: episode was on clapping as the form of applause, So
11:09
Speaker 1: if you haven't already heard that, then go back and
11:12
Speaker 1: check out that many because we covered some of the
11:14
Speaker 1: history there as well.
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Speaker 2: Ye. Super interesting.
11:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really I had a lot of fun
11:19
Speaker 1: with that particular discussion. The first known record of applause
11:24
Speaker 1: at an event goes back as far as you mentioned
11:27
Speaker 1: that sixth century BC with the Claisse Themes, a lawmaker
11:32
Speaker 1: in Athens who required audiences to clap and approval of
11:36
Speaker 1: their leader instead of meeting individually to show approval, So
11:41
Speaker 1: essentially sort of gaining audience participation in a somewhat coordinated
11:46
Speaker 1: effort to I guess try and as it mentions to
11:49
Speaker 1: show approval, to celebrate if you will, in sort of
11:52
Speaker 1: a big public display. And the term applause comes from
11:56
Speaker 1: medieval Latin aplader, which means to clap hands an approbation,
12:01
Speaker 1: to approve by clapping hands, and to strike upon beat.
12:06
Speaker 1: And if you've actually I don't know if you've heard
12:08
Speaker 1: the term plaudits, but plaudits is another name for basically
12:12
Speaker 1: applause or celebrating approval in some way.
12:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was put in place for like just
12:18
Speaker 2: a practicality sake, Like there were just too many people
12:21
Speaker 2: to have one on one meetings, so they had to
12:23
Speaker 2: have a good general assembly way to show that this
12:26
Speaker 2: that this person whoever it was, or this law was
12:29
Speaker 2: approved or.
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Speaker 1: Whatever it might be. So they probably ate that up too.
12:32
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's like absolutely, like it's like oh for me,
12:35
Speaker 2: Oh I like that.
12:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, more of that, please, I'd like that a lot.
12:39
Speaker 2: That's why we still do it, right. So crowd cheers
12:41
Speaker 2: were also something that would regularly occur, but organize crowd
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Speaker 2: cheering wasn't officially recorded. This is wild to me that
12:47
Speaker 2: this is like not something that has like any sort
12:49
Speaker 2: of record up until the eighteen sixties in the US. Now, yeah,
12:53
Speaker 2: I will say everything. Ever, I tried to fact chest
12:56
Speaker 2: this because I was like, maybe that's just an America thing,
13:00
Speaker 2: like that American's going we did it first. I could
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Speaker 2: not find anything else that said that there was organized
13:06
Speaker 2: crowd cheering anywhere else in any recorded history. And I
13:10
Speaker 2: may be wrong, maybe I've missed those gaps, but I
13:11
Speaker 2: could not find it anywhere else, which was really fascinating.
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Speaker 1: If you are not American and you have evidence of
13:18
Speaker 1: sort of coordinated crowd cheering that goes back before that
13:21
Speaker 1: and your country, or even if you're American and you
13:24
Speaker 1: just happen to have knowledge of this in other countries,
13:26
Speaker 1: please reach out to us and let us know. We
13:28
Speaker 1: would love to correct this so that we are we're
13:31
Speaker 1: really clear that we portraying accurate facts, because we do,
13:34
Speaker 1: like there are things that we speak to out of
13:36
Speaker 1: our own expertise. But then of course we do rely
13:39
Speaker 1: on our ability to sift through the existing literature and
13:44
Speaker 1: find what information we can, and like I think we're
13:46
Speaker 1: pretty good at that for the most part, because we
13:49
Speaker 1: are academics, we have published, we have done scholarly work.
13:52
Speaker 1: We know how to look through at least academic history.
13:56
Speaker 1: But we don't always find everything if you're not doing
13:58
Speaker 1: an exhaustive search, sometimes even when you are, and we
14:02
Speaker 1: really don't have the time to be investigative journalists out
14:05
Speaker 1: there searching around, so we do our best anyway. All
14:07
Speaker 1: that's to say, if you have more information about this,
14:10
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. But as punishment
14:13
Speaker 1: to Shane for not having more information, I'm saying we
14:16
Speaker 1: have to play ads. So as we mentioned the first
14:26
Speaker 1: sort of evidence that we could find was the eighteen
14:28
Speaker 1: sixties in which this took place, and crowd cheers were
14:31
Speaker 1: something that would regularly occur. But these organized crowd cheers
14:36
Speaker 1: seem to be, at least based on the available evidence
14:39
Speaker 1: that we've dug up, officially recorded for the first time
14:42
Speaker 1: in the eighteen sixties, shouted from a crowd at Princeton
14:46
Speaker 1: University in the United States in eighteen eighty four.
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Speaker 2: The first official, kind of I don't want to say
14:51
Speaker 2: official crowd cheers were happening. They were maybe chanting people's
14:54
Speaker 2: names and stuff like that, but the first official cheer
14:57
Speaker 2: went something like this, Ray Ray Ray, Hey, Tiger, Tiger,
15:01
Speaker 2: tiger sis sis sis boom boom boom h Princeton, Princeton, Princeton,
15:06
Speaker 2: something like that. So it's Ray tiger sis boom ah, Princeton,
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Speaker 2: is what the first organized share was.
15:13
Speaker 1: I think we need to need to do a mini
15:15
Speaker 1: on why we love three word chants or three syllable
15:20
Speaker 1: chants that maybe.
15:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that would be that would be interesting. We
15:24
Speaker 2: should probably also do an episode on Ivy League schools
15:26
Speaker 2: and why they're Ivy League schools.
15:28
Speaker 1: That actually does sound like a very interesting idea. Yeah, Okay,
15:32
Speaker 1: So that was the cheer. After noticing the organized cheering
15:36
Speaker 1: and chanting from the crowd, a Princeton University graduate name
15:40
Speaker 1: named Thomas Peebles very good, yes perfect, took this idea
15:46
Speaker 1: and began developing what we now know as cheerleading.
15:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. So. Peebles was an Irish American. His family had
15:53
Speaker 2: immigrated from Ireland when he was thirteen. He graduated from
15:57
Speaker 2: Princeton in eighteen eighty two. He moved to Minneappo, where
16:00
Speaker 2: he taught philosophy at the University of Minnesota for five years.
16:03
Speaker 2: During his time at the university, he also volunteered as
16:05
Speaker 2: a football coach, making him the first college football coach ever.
16:09
Speaker 1: Whoa okay, and football in the American term, which is
16:13
Speaker 1: a sport that we play with our hands the real way.
16:15
Speaker 1: That's yeah, But as Nate Bergazi puts it, there's a
16:19
Speaker 1: little kicking for a sport called football.
16:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway.
16:25
Speaker 1: During this time, he also passed the bar exam and
16:28
Speaker 1: practice as a lawyer. We're still still talking about peoples,
16:31
Speaker 1: by the way, peoples. Yes. He managed a phone company,
16:34
Speaker 1: the Mississippi Valley Telephone Company, and to agriculture firms. He
16:39
Speaker 1: also founded a construction firm in which they focused on
16:43
Speaker 1: building homes, many of which are still standing today. And
16:46
Speaker 1: so just you know, really the innovator of his time,
16:50
Speaker 1: although it sounds like there were maybe many of them.
16:53
Speaker 1: Who says, you have to stick with one career, start
16:55
Speaker 1: eleven businesses, do whatever, like have fun, you only live once.
16:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want follow the people's the people's method where he.
17:03
Speaker 1: Just he started it and then we got Elon Musk.
17:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, boo boo that man. So during practice is
17:14
Speaker 2: the football team football practices, he would actually break teams
17:17
Speaker 2: up into two teams, and then he would host these
17:18
Speaker 2: scrimmages and when a team when his team scored, specifically
17:21
Speaker 2: the team that he was coaching, so he would coach
17:23
Speaker 2: one team, he would have you know, a really great
17:25
Speaker 2: player coach the other team, like the defense and all that.
17:29
Speaker 2: So when his team would score, he would shout cis
17:31
Speaker 2: boom ma Princeton. So basically like he would cheer and
17:35
Speaker 2: have like a kind of a standard cheer for whenever
17:37
Speaker 2: he would score. Sure okay, yeah, So in response, the
17:39
Speaker 2: opposing team would shout rah rah raski uma okay. The
17:43
Speaker 2: column response between the teams helped the organize planned crowd
17:46
Speaker 2: chants at the game. So they started doing this, and
17:48
Speaker 2: then those planned crowd chants would start showing up at
17:51
Speaker 2: the games as well.
17:52
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, interesting. Yeah, So essentially what we have here
17:56
Speaker 1: is they're sort of they're almost teaching the crowd to
17:59
Speaker 1: engage with this and the teams maybe as well. Of like,
18:02
Speaker 1: let's have the elements of the game punctuated by a
18:08
Speaker 1: sort of coordinated vocal thing that we all do together.
18:12
Speaker 1: This chant, this cheer thing is like this sort of
18:15
Speaker 1: punctuates the parts of the game when things happen, which
18:17
Speaker 1: might help people also follow the game in a way.
18:20
Speaker 1: So that's pretty clever. Actually, that's that's a really smart
18:22
Speaker 1: way of building engagement in it where it's not it's
18:26
Speaker 1: less of a passive experience and it's more communal. That
18:30
Speaker 1: that's really smat.
18:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:32
Speaker 1: On November second, nineteen not nineteen, eighteen ninety eight, Trump
18:38
Speaker 1: was celebrating his fortieth birthday. It had been common practice
18:42
Speaker 1: that the crowd would spontaneously break into these organized chants,
18:47
Speaker 1: which would vary across schools, but on this day things
18:51
Speaker 1: would were to change. Thanks to Johnny Campbell. It's a
18:55
Speaker 1: pretty good.
18:56
Speaker 2: Name too, such an American name. That Johnny Campbell such
19:00
Speaker 2: an American name.
19:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, people's is fun. I like it. It's it
19:05
Speaker 1: doesn't strike me as being like core American. But Johnny Campbell,
19:10
Speaker 1: that Johnny Campbell feels it. Yeah, Johnny Campbell feels it
19:14
Speaker 1: absolutely Anyway, so he got up, went to the field
19:19
Speaker 1: and led the crowd in this chance. So this sort
19:21
Speaker 1: of helps. So rather than them just knowing this is
19:23
Speaker 1: what you do when this takes place, we've got someone
19:26
Speaker 1: to sort of help conduct, if you will. They're now
19:28
Speaker 1: leading this so that people can follow along. And so
19:32
Speaker 1: he is kind of considered then the first cheerleader. And yeah,
19:35
Speaker 1: so cheerleading celebrates its birthday every November two. We just
19:40
Speaker 1: passed it, by the way, cheerleading's birthday. We just followed
19:44
Speaker 1: what We're recording this in the past and you're hearing
19:48
Speaker 1: it in the future. So something happened on Tuesday. Some
19:51
Speaker 1: of you are happy, some of you are sad. I
19:53
Speaker 1: have no idea how I'm gonna feel hopefully happy, but
19:56
Speaker 1: that's how everyone feels. Oh yeah, nevertheless, we just asked
20:00
Speaker 1: the birthday of cheerleading. So maybe, however you're feeling about
20:03
Speaker 1: the election, that just took place. We can think about
20:06
Speaker 1: that instead.
20:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be might be better. So let's talk
20:10
Speaker 2: a little bit where this goes next. So we've got
20:11
Speaker 2: Johnny Campbell, who's the first cheerleader. Now, after he decided
20:15
Speaker 2: he was going to be the star of the show, sure,
20:17
Speaker 2: something developed called yell leaders. Okay, And these yell leaders
20:21
Speaker 2: were the people that would get crowds cheering, and they
20:24
Speaker 2: would get crowds chanting, like they would be the Johnny
20:26
Speaker 2: Campbell's of that group. They would show up, they would
20:28
Speaker 2: start leading the chance, they would get people involved. They
20:31
Speaker 2: would use things like megaphones, you know, or like those
20:34
Speaker 2: big like you know, those those horns that they would use. Yeah,
20:37
Speaker 2: you know, because they didn't have electronic ones. They would
20:39
Speaker 2: use our motions to keep the crowd in time. They
20:42
Speaker 2: would use signs, they would use pomp pumps, and they
20:44
Speaker 2: would use basic jumps and stunts to get people riled up.
20:47
Speaker 2: So these yell leaders were the people that were getting
20:49
Speaker 2: the crowds going and like doing all the things that
20:52
Speaker 2: cheer we know cheerleaders do today.
20:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, okay, it's all coming together. I'm seeing it.
20:58
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
20:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. Okay, cool, So
21:01
Speaker 1: I got you here. Yeah, I imagine then with the
21:03
Speaker 1: pump poms and the and the coordinated sort of hand
21:06
Speaker 1: movements sort of helped continue to just drive the engagement.
21:09
Speaker 1: It's just more it's more of the conducting and more signaling,
21:13
Speaker 1: like this is the thing that we're all doing right now,
21:16
Speaker 1: and you can sort of see this choreographed effort that
21:19
Speaker 1: results in this cheer, this participation, and this entertainment spectacle
21:24
Speaker 1: that's part of the sporting event. Now. Right up until
21:27
Speaker 1: World War Two, cheerleading was actually a male dominated practice,
21:32
Speaker 1: as you may have actually gathered from this kicked off
21:34
Speaker 1: by Johnny Campbell. I feel like that's how you can't
21:37
Speaker 1: say it.
21:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't say it Jack Campbell.
21:42
Speaker 1: And there was this yelling that was involved. It was
21:45
Speaker 1: this highly athletic thing. So it was this male dominated
21:48
Speaker 1: practice to begin with. But because of course World War
21:51
Speaker 1: Two is happening, all the men are going off to war,
21:54
Speaker 1: sports were continuing to They were trying to keep morale
21:57
Speaker 1: like they wanted to have. These sporting events keeps people
22:01
Speaker 1: spirits up, it keeps them engaged, it keeps them lively
22:04
Speaker 1: and interested and takes their mind off the bleak gloom
22:08
Speaker 1: of war, I guess, and cheerleading started to shift to
22:11
Speaker 1: a female led activity, which of course is largely how
22:15
Speaker 1: it continues today. Although it's it is I think, maybe
22:18
Speaker 1: more mixed now than it has been in the last
22:21
Speaker 1: maybe half century or so.
22:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there was one stat that showed the cheerleading
22:25
Speaker 2: is roughly eighty five percent female, so it is mixed,
22:29
Speaker 2: but not quite as mixed as maybe you might see
22:32
Speaker 2: other fields. However, I think what's really fascinating is that cheerleading,
22:36
Speaker 2: which is often I've heard described as like a female sport,
22:39
Speaker 2: like kind of like as a disparaging way, which it's
22:41
Speaker 2: not at all. No behavior analysis, is roughly ninety one
22:44
Speaker 2: percent female. So it's interesting that like a science field
22:48
Speaker 2: has a larger body of female practitioners than cheerleading does.
22:52
Speaker 2: Even though you know, there's just like some some kind
22:54
Speaker 2: of like connotations that come along with it, our own biases,
22:57
Speaker 2: and like sure the implicit bias related to like how
22:59
Speaker 2: we up with like sexism and all that stuff that
23:02
Speaker 2: makes us think a certain way about it. But yeah,
23:04
Speaker 2: eighty five percent is roughly female. And cheerleading right now, Again,
23:08
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it because I'm just not very athletic,
23:10
Speaker 2: so there's nothing to do with me being a guy.
23:12
Speaker 2: Has everything to do with the fact that I cannot
23:14
Speaker 2: do a handstand. I am just not strong enough to
23:16
Speaker 2: do that.
23:17
Speaker 1: Actually, most of our audience, according to Spotify at least
23:19
Speaker 1: is female interesting, so that kind of does make sense.
23:22
Speaker 1: Where'd you get that ninety one statistic for Behavior and
23:25
Speaker 1: Analysis the BACB oh okay, great, all right, well that's yeah,
23:28
Speaker 1: I mean they would have the data.
23:30
Speaker 2: All right.
23:31
Speaker 1: We'll continuing on the history of cheering here. In nineteen
23:34
Speaker 1: forty nine, so we're now past World War Two, Lawrence
23:38
Speaker 1: Herky Herkimeier began hosting clinics teaching cheer practice and stunts,
23:43
Speaker 1: so sort of ramping up still here. The first clinic
23:48
Speaker 1: ever apparently hosted only fifty two people, and the next
23:51
Speaker 1: one this this proved popular and successful and effective because
23:55
Speaker 1: the next one hosted three hundred and fifty. Yes, and
23:59
Speaker 1: Herkey also went on to start the first cheerleading training organization,
24:03
Speaker 1: the National Cheerleaders Association or NCA, which holds the cheerleading
24:08
Speaker 1: nationals we tend to see on television and about which
24:12
Speaker 1: I believe they will make movies.
24:14
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, that is true. Now
24:16
Speaker 2: for here, cheerleading boomed in the early seventeen nineteen seventies,
24:20
Speaker 2: the nineteen hundreds nineteen seventies, we saw universities implement Title
24:24
Speaker 2: nine policies that prevent a discrimination. We also saw the
24:27
Speaker 2: emergence of the US All Star Federation or the USASF
24:31
Speaker 2: that provided additional training of rules and competition guidelines. So
24:35
Speaker 2: cheerleading is starting to kind of grow and actually become
24:37
Speaker 2: a really well organized activity.
24:40
Speaker 1: Amazing.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:41
Speaker 1: Since then, multiple organizations have emerged to bring cheerleading to
24:45
Speaker 1: a global level. West alone, there are approximately three million
24:51
Speaker 1: cheerleaders participating across various levels of the sports. So this
24:55
Speaker 1: is it's recruited quite a few people and really built
24:59
Speaker 1: a of talent and base around this with a pretty
25:03
Speaker 1: large group of people choosing to participate. And I gotta say,
25:07
Speaker 1: for someone who I am, I have never been one
25:10
Speaker 1: to typically follow most team sports. I don't dispoverage anyone
25:14
Speaker 1: who does. It was just not a thing that I
25:16
Speaker 1: really grew up with. It was just not a thing
25:19
Speaker 1: that struck me as being important, probably because I didn't
25:23
Speaker 1: grow up with it, and so because cheerleading was so
25:28
Speaker 1: closely tied to those it was also fairly peripheral to me. Right,
25:32
Speaker 1: three million is a lot of people. It's a lot
25:34
Speaker 1: of people. It's hard to ignore, I think, when you've
25:36
Speaker 1: got that much going on in support of that. So anyway,
25:41
Speaker 1: that's just kind of cool. I'm glad to be made
25:43
Speaker 1: more aware of it now than I was when I
25:45
Speaker 1: was younger. And I think I may be incorrectly associated
25:48
Speaker 1: with cheerleading with team sports. But what's kind of cool
25:51
Speaker 1: and interesting about cheerleading is it's not really a team sport.
25:55
Speaker 1: I mean, it isn't the sense that you're working with
25:57
Speaker 1: your team, but it's not in the sense that, like,
26:00
Speaker 1: it's not these events where the whole thing is us
26:04
Speaker 1: versus them. Like part of the sport of cheerleading is
26:09
Speaker 1: largely around the athleticism of it. It's just how good
26:13
Speaker 1: can we get at what we do by showing, like
26:17
Speaker 1: how impressively athletic we can be, much like watching gymnastics,
26:21
Speaker 1: Like there are gymnastics teams, but it's largely about watching
26:24
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of sort of human achievement in these athletic events.
26:28
Speaker 1: So I feel like I see some parallels here.
26:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really cool, and cheerleading is definitely more than
26:33
Speaker 2: just going give me an A, give me a D,
26:37
Speaker 2: give me an S. What does that spell? Ads? Ads ads?
26:49
Speaker 1: Okay, So that more or less brings us up to today.
26:52
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people participating in cheerleading. The history here,
26:55
Speaker 1: I think it all makes a lot of sense, but
26:57
Speaker 1: there is more to it than that, Like why do
27:00
Speaker 1: we do cheerleading? Let's talk about that.
27:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, based on what we're reading here, there appears
27:06
Speaker 2: to be kind of two primary goals of cheerleading, encouragement
27:09
Speaker 2: and competition, And I think it's probably good to unpack
27:11
Speaker 2: both of those a little bit. And I want to
27:13
Speaker 2: start with the idea of encouragement. And the question that
27:15
Speaker 2: I had as I was kind of putting this together
27:17
Speaker 2: was does cheerleading that focuses on encouraging team to win
27:20
Speaker 2: actually work? Does supporting the team and getting the crowd
27:23
Speaker 2: behind the team? Does it actually do anything for the
27:25
Speaker 2: team other than just create a racket? Well, there is
27:28
Speaker 2: actually some evidence that crowd engagement might actually make a
27:32
Speaker 2: slight difference in athletic performance.
27:34
Speaker 1: Huh.
27:34
Speaker 2: Not like a huge performance, but like a slight little boost.
27:37
Speaker 2: So Vetta and Abat in twenty twenty one compared performances
27:41
Speaker 2: between home and away games and saw that home games
27:45
Speaker 2: saw greater performances from the team members. Now it's hypothesized
27:48
Speaker 2: that the home team advantage, just the idea that you
27:50
Speaker 2: had a crowd that is on your side might actually
27:52
Speaker 2: make the difference. So it might not necessarily be the
27:54
Speaker 2: cheering part of it. It might be the comfortability of home.
27:57
Speaker 2: It might be the fact that you are playing at
27:59
Speaker 2: like your locale and like your stadium. There might be
28:02
Speaker 2: some factors they want to investigate a little bit further,
28:04
Speaker 2: but what they the big thing that they noticed was
28:06
Speaker 2: that the crowds that were cheering for them tended to
28:08
Speaker 2: be cheering for them consistently at home, where they weren't
28:11
Speaker 2: seeing the same type of effect outside of their away games.
28:14
Speaker 2: So super interesting that like there might be a little
28:17
Speaker 2: bit of a performance boost for those home games.
28:19
Speaker 1: There certainly could be an element too of like where
28:21
Speaker 1: you practice is like where you're most likely to perform
28:25
Speaker 1: at your best right as opposed to even like even
28:28
Speaker 1: stadiums that are pretty similar, they're not the one that
28:31
Speaker 1: you're like actually used to doing your practice in, and
28:34
Speaker 1: so there could be some relevance there. It'd be interesting
28:37
Speaker 1: to see if they specifically tried like with and without
28:40
Speaker 1: cheerleaders for home games, and with and without cheerleaders for
28:43
Speaker 1: away games, and then you could actually directly compare those
28:47
Speaker 1: and get statistically validated determinations of whether or not they're
28:51
Speaker 1: sort of an effect. But nevertheless, like I can see
28:54
Speaker 1: what they're trying to go for here, and you know,
28:56
Speaker 1: there is the effect I think they talk about, like
28:59
Speaker 1: the I forget what it's called. There's a name for it,
29:02
Speaker 1: and I think it's specifically in baseball, like the where
29:04
Speaker 1: the crowd is like one of the players, it's like
29:07
Speaker 1: the thirteenth player. You know, I'm talking about tenth player.
29:10
Speaker 2: It's a ten tenth player, Thank you, tenth man or
29:12
Speaker 2: something like that.
29:13
Speaker 1: Well I thought maybe it was for other sports, Yeah,
29:15
Speaker 1: something like that. So I could certainly see where there
29:18
Speaker 1: is a different effect when you have an audience, and
29:21
Speaker 1: so when the audience is further being sort of worked
29:23
Speaker 1: up by cheerleaders, that could also I could see them
29:26
Speaker 1: making having an effect on the overall competition.
29:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:31
Speaker 1: Anyway, we were talking about the encouragement and the competing part,
29:35
Speaker 1: so the competition thing, and this I think is an
29:38
Speaker 1: interesting conversation in its own right, because there is a
29:41
Speaker 1: lot of things that we do related to competition outside
29:44
Speaker 1: of just sporting and athletic events. There's obviously competition economically
29:48
Speaker 1: where we have businesses competing with one another. We have
29:50
Speaker 1: competition in games. We did an episode on board games
29:53
Speaker 1: a long time ago, we're probably going to revisit in
29:56
Speaker 1: the not too distant future, and like, there's lots of
29:59
Speaker 1: ways that competition exists in our world. So anyway, Franken
30:02
Speaker 1: and Brown nineteen ninety five hypothesize that competition occurs for
30:06
Speaker 1: at least three reasons, the need to win, the opportunity
30:11
Speaker 1: to improve performance, and the motivation for greater performance. I
30:15
Speaker 1: feel like all of those things you could call one reason,
30:18
Speaker 1: but yeah, those it pretty closely related. But those are
30:21
Speaker 1: their hypothesized reason for why people want to compete, which
30:25
Speaker 1: could be related then to why cheering has resulted in
30:29
Speaker 1: competitive cheering competitions. I call it competitive cheering competitions. I
30:34
Speaker 1: could just call it cheering competitions.
30:36
Speaker 2: That works too, That works too. So there are some
30:38
Speaker 2: models that discuss competition from an evolutionary perspective, while others
30:42
Speaker 2: view this from a social viewpoint, And there's not really
30:44
Speaker 2: a single answer but you know, trophy's attention payment for winning.
30:48
Speaker 2: Those are all pretty cool rewards, so those might also
30:51
Speaker 2: contribute to why people like to do this. Plus, I
30:53
Speaker 2: guess it's kind of cool, and I don't know, I
30:55
Speaker 2: have this kind of motivation where like I like to
30:57
Speaker 2: see myself perform at a higher level. So like that's
30:59
Speaker 2: an individual motivation to see me do better, like learn
31:02
Speaker 2: a new thing, like learn a new trick, learn a
31:04
Speaker 2: new skill, and so there is that motivation too. But
31:06
Speaker 2: I think eventually we are just going to do a
31:08
Speaker 2: full episode on why we compete, because I think there
31:11
Speaker 2: are a lot of different ways to look at it
31:13
Speaker 2: and different models of competition and how that influences individuals
31:17
Speaker 2: and groups and kind of like how all that works together.
31:19
Speaker 2: So we'll have to get into meta contingencies at some
31:22
Speaker 2: point in time with that.
31:23
Speaker 1: And when we do that episode, you and I will
31:26
Speaker 1: be competing the whole episode, just just to wait.
31:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, so every bulletpoint we rock paper sisters who get to.
31:32
Speaker 1: Go there you go. Obviously, some people take competition very
31:39
Speaker 1: seriously to the point where it actually can I think,
31:42
Speaker 1: very easily cross into the realm of like danger and toxicity.
31:46
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, Shannon Holloway missed out on an
31:50
Speaker 1: opportunity to compete for two consecutive years, prompting her mother
31:54
Speaker 1: one to Halloway to hire a hitman. The goal was
31:57
Speaker 1: not to take out Shawna's competition direct. Rather, she hired
32:01
Speaker 1: the hitman to murder Verna Keith, the mother of the
32:05
Speaker 1: girl who had beaten Shanna, to get the spot. So
32:09
Speaker 1: that's our hitman tie in, Yeah, I think, man, yes,
32:12
Speaker 1: there's And.
32:14
Speaker 2: So we got Princeton University so far, and we've got
32:17
Speaker 2: a hit man.
32:18
Speaker 1: There was one more that I thought we had accomplished
32:20
Speaker 1: so far as well.
32:21
Speaker 2: We have not gotten a George W. Bush or bab
32:24
Speaker 2: Brings yet.
32:24
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, never mind, you're right. We're almost
32:27
Speaker 1: there though, the hitman in Princeton, Okay, got you.
32:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're very close. We're very close. So the first
32:31
Speaker 2: trial for Holloway was dismissed as a mistrial because one
32:34
Speaker 2: juror was on probation for a drug related felony. They
32:37
Speaker 2: should not have been a juror, but they were a
32:39
Speaker 2: juror and it got dismissed. The second trial, she was
32:42
Speaker 2: sentenced to ten years in prison. She only served six
32:44
Speaker 2: months and was released on a nine point five years
32:47
Speaker 2: probation settlement. So like she got out, but she was
32:50
Speaker 2: still on probation for another nearly ten years after that.
32:53
Speaker 1: Stop the violence.
32:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not worth it. I mean, I hear. I
32:58
Speaker 2: have a friend whose kids are in and they're like
33:00
Speaker 2: very very young. Yeah, and she's like, even at that level,
33:03
Speaker 2: it's so highly competitive. Like the rules and the guidelines
33:07
Speaker 2: are so strict. It's like an entire it's such a
33:10
Speaker 2: unique culture. It's like everything is so regulated there.
33:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, they're like poisoning each other's of zembic shots.
33:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so scary.
33:19
Speaker 1: Just kidding. Please don't do that. Please be nice to
33:22
Speaker 1: each other again. Stuff the violence.
33:24
Speaker 2: Be nice to each other. It's all fun and games.
33:26
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk some more about some of the science
33:28
Speaker 1: here of in cheering and understanding what's going on Moodang
33:33
Speaker 1: and colleagues in twenty twenty two. Thank you.
33:36
Speaker 2: I was so hoping you would say that.
33:39
Speaker 1: Not mood Dang, but Dang felt the same way. Also
33:44
Speaker 1: saw that ongoing cheerleading practice can actually improve self esteem,
33:48
Speaker 1: specifically related to factors such as physical attractiveness, physical quality,
33:53
Speaker 1: and physical self worth. And they also saw improvements in
33:56
Speaker 1: sleep and eating disorders, depression symptoms, and just overall mental
34:00
Speaker 1: health wellbeing. Of course, it is unclear if cheerleading was
34:04
Speaker 1: actually the important and active ingredient, or if there was
34:08
Speaker 1: like the fact that it was exercise behavioral activation. Maybe
34:12
Speaker 1: that was a causal factor. Maybe it was both of
34:14
Speaker 1: those things. Maybe it was neither, Maybe it was something else,
34:17
Speaker 1: who knows. Maybe it's that people who have the opportunity
34:21
Speaker 1: to participate in cheer have more resources at their disposals,
34:24
Speaker 1: so in general their lives are a little easier. That
34:26
Speaker 1: could be that too, who knows. They were unable to
34:28
Speaker 1: rule those things out. Nevertheless, they did see a correlation
34:32
Speaker 1: between cheering and these positive outcomes.
34:35
Speaker 2: Yes, which was kind of cool. According to usacheer dot org,
34:38
Speaker 2: which I cannot imagine has any sort of like bias
34:41
Speaker 2: towards making cheer sound good. No, not at all, no, no, no.
34:45
Speaker 2: Cheerleading is generally considered safer than basketball, soccer, volleyball, and softball,
34:50
Speaker 2: with less annual emergency room visits than those sports as
34:53
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three. But to kind of like counterpoint
34:57
Speaker 2: that Mueller into two thousand and one basically said cheerleading
35:01
Speaker 2: had some of the most catastrophic fatal injuries, just behind
35:05
Speaker 2: football specifically for female led high school sports. These incidents
35:10
Speaker 2: have reduced, so according to the US cheer dot Org survey,
35:13
Speaker 2: that was twenty twenty three Mueller in two thousand and one.
35:16
Speaker 2: That's a twenty two year gap, so like there have
35:18
Speaker 2: been improvements in this. So like we're talking about a
35:21
Speaker 2: pretty big gap in those data. But the Mollar report
35:23
Speaker 2: actually showed that this different Mollar report these incidences, it
35:27
Speaker 2: could have been the same Muller. Could you imagine if
35:28
Speaker 2: it was the same Muller.
35:29
Speaker 1: There was no collusion between the cheerleaders cheer Nike. Nike
35:35
Speaker 1: is not involved, That's right.
35:37
Speaker 2: So these incidents, though have reduced due to the implementation
35:40
Speaker 2: of better rules and training to support athletes. But cheerleading specifically,
35:44
Speaker 2: and this was a stat that I found across kind
35:46
Speaker 2: of multiple sources, cheerleading accounted for sixty five percent of
35:50
Speaker 2: all catastrophic injuries in girls' high school athletics. So cheerleading
35:55
Speaker 2: is largely and when we say catastrophic, we're talking about
35:59
Speaker 2: seer like ligament injuries more than anything. They said, like
36:02
Speaker 2: ankle ligament injuries are the worst ones. Yeah, but there's
36:06
Speaker 2: a pretty high level of concussions that happen inside of
36:08
Speaker 2: this too, and we'll talk about that in a little bit.
36:10
Speaker 1: And unfortunately some people die. Yeah, as I'm sure we'll
36:13
Speaker 1: get to. That's pretty intense. It's kind of funny. I
36:16
Speaker 1: was wondering why they didn't include rugby and hockey as
36:19
Speaker 1: part of like it's safer than those things. I'm like,
36:21
Speaker 1: that's like, that's like damning with fake praise, you know,
36:24
Speaker 1: they're like safer them rugby. I'm like, oh, the most
36:27
Speaker 1: dangerous thing that people do.
36:28
Speaker 2: Everything is safer than rugby.
36:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm like I'm like, that's like saying it's
36:32
Speaker 1: safer than jumping off a building. I'm like, well, that's
36:34
Speaker 1: that's just bad idea. So right, right, I'm glad it's
36:37
Speaker 1: safer than that, but that's not that that's making it
36:40
Speaker 1: sound worse than it probably is. So yeah, yeah, for sure,
36:43
Speaker 1: and why they chose the ones they chose anyway, Moving on,
36:46
Speaker 1: Zoo and Colleagues twenty twenty two found that competitive and
36:50
Speaker 1: All star cheer leading has an injury rate of about
36:52
Speaker 1: one out of every one thousand athletes. Of course, that
36:56
Speaker 1: is point zero one, if you want to call it
36:58
Speaker 1: that percent, collegiate fleets are actually three times more likely
37:02
Speaker 1: to sustain a concussion and five times as likely to
37:05
Speaker 1: experience a catastrophic injury compared to other types of cheerleading.
37:09
Speaker 1: So I guess once you're getting up of those higher levels,
37:12
Speaker 1: I guess it could be the fact that, like, as
37:15
Speaker 1: you become an adult, you're just more susceptible to injury,
37:18
Speaker 1: so as you're getting older, but also you're moving into
37:20
Speaker 1: potentially more competitive spaces with higher stakes. So I think
37:24
Speaker 1: all those things can be true.
37:25
Speaker 2: At the same time, more complex stunts, you might have
37:28
Speaker 2: injuries as a result of fatigue. There's lots of things
37:31
Speaker 2: that can happen at that level. And as you just
37:33
Speaker 2: as it just kind of as you get into higher
37:35
Speaker 2: levels of performance, you're more likely to see the possibility
37:37
Speaker 2: of injuries too, I think. So, yeah, I think that's
37:39
Speaker 2: a pretty staggering number. Though, when you talk about like
37:41
Speaker 2: when you get to the college level, three times more
37:43
Speaker 2: likely to sustain a concussion, and you might be going,
37:45
Speaker 2: how can you get concussed? And cheerleading, well, a lot
37:48
Speaker 2: of them happen in the pure middle moves when they
37:50
Speaker 2: do stacking and they do the tossing and throwing. A
37:52
Speaker 2: lot of it's like poor catches or misses or inaccuracies
37:56
Speaker 2: with that, where somebody might hit heads with somebody else,
37:59
Speaker 2: they might drop on the floor, they might miss a move,
38:01
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of just kind of like issues
38:04
Speaker 2: of precision and accuracy more than it is like the
38:06
Speaker 2: actual moves themselves.
38:08
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean some of these moves, they're tossing
38:11
Speaker 1: people like fifteen twenty feet in the air or probably
38:14
Speaker 1: higher in many of these instances, and if they don't
38:16
Speaker 1: catch them quite right, or if they don't catch them
38:19
Speaker 1: at all, I mean, like that is a serious fall.
38:22
Speaker 1: That is like falling from a two story building. Like
38:24
Speaker 1: that's intense, and if you lay it on your head
38:27
Speaker 1: or your neck or your spine, like that could be
38:29
Speaker 1: the last time you ever do anything like that. So yeah,
38:32
Speaker 1: the risk of injury can be really substantial. And I
38:35
Speaker 1: don't want to all want to take away from you know,
38:37
Speaker 1: the fact that they practice some of these really impressive
38:39
Speaker 1: and cool coordinated moves, but I think there's a tendency
38:43
Speaker 1: to want to disrespect the cheerleading that I think appears
38:50
Speaker 1: disingenuously enthusiastic that appears like almost comically colorful over the top.
38:58
Speaker 1: There are many instances, says where it has been hyper
39:01
Speaker 1: sexualized or fetishized, and I think that that has turned
39:04
Speaker 1: a lot of people off a cheerleading. But like the
39:07
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is like this is a highly
39:09
Speaker 1: athletic endeavor that has a high risk and potential for
39:13
Speaker 1: danger when things go poorly. And as you said, those
39:16
Speaker 1: pyramidal structures, like you're stacking a lot of people on
39:18
Speaker 1: top of each other. If one of those people falls,
39:21
Speaker 1: they're like multiple people falling on multiple people. That is
39:24
Speaker 1: really dangerous. Yeah, and they're oftentimes falling on like hard,
39:29
Speaker 1: hard ground, so like, yeah, there're a lot of injury
39:33
Speaker 1: can happen in those type of events.
39:35
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. So, like when I was in high school,
39:37
Speaker 2: like obviously I had that like stupid high school kid
39:40
Speaker 2: thing where I was like, oh, cheerleading is so like
39:43
Speaker 2: one of those people. Yeah, as you look at it now,
39:46
Speaker 2: like you go, this is an incredibly impressive feat. It
39:49
Speaker 2: is like this is truly it's absurd. It is amazing
39:53
Speaker 2: what these folks can do. And it's just something that
39:55
Speaker 2: is so far out of my skill set that I
39:57
Speaker 2: just kind of am amazed. I can't help but be
39:59
Speaker 2: amazed by going wow, Like I can't even do a
40:01
Speaker 2: cartwheel without falling on my ass, right, so like, let
40:04
Speaker 2: alone anything, I can't do anything that they're doing. So, like,
40:07
Speaker 2: it's really impressive to watch these folks do this at
40:09
Speaker 2: such a high level of performance. I mean, this is
40:11
Speaker 2: like one of those things where you go, you know,
40:14
Speaker 2: when you talk about human behavior and you watch these
40:17
Speaker 2: levels of performance these people that just keep raising the
40:20
Speaker 2: bar as like what humans can do over and over
40:22
Speaker 2: and over again. It really truly is an incredible feat.
40:25
Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, we have a huge respect for the
40:27
Speaker 2: folks that are doing this because it is just so
40:29
Speaker 2: it's a marvel of human behavior.
40:31
Speaker 1: And I do think it is unfortunate that the direction
40:35
Speaker 1: that it went is the sort of misogynistic, hyper sexualized,
40:38
Speaker 1: fetishized thing, which I don't think it is inherently. I
40:41
Speaker 1: think that's something that was superimposed on top of it
40:44
Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that it is a really
40:47
Speaker 1: cool athletic thing that people are able to accomplish. So like,
40:51
Speaker 1: I think the culture around it that got superimposed on
40:55
Speaker 1: top of it is really unfortunate because I think it's
40:58
Speaker 1: really worth appreciating the level of elite athleticism that is
41:02
Speaker 1: brought into the sport. Yes, I mean, frankly, as you said, like,
41:07
Speaker 1: I have never in my life been able to do
41:09
Speaker 1: the kinds of things that they pull off that seem
41:11
Speaker 1: like they're outside of the realm of what human beings
41:14
Speaker 1: should even be capable of. And yet they do it
41:15
Speaker 1: because they train hard, they work through it, they build
41:18
Speaker 1: up their strength and their athleticism, and they do these
41:20
Speaker 1: really cool things. So my biggest hope is that they
41:23
Speaker 1: continue to improve on the safety of this so that
41:26
Speaker 1: people do not get injured. I think without being in
41:30
Speaker 1: the arena of like high schools and colleges and cheerleading,
41:34
Speaker 1: it feels like the sort of hyper sexualized, superimposed interpretation
41:41
Speaker 1: of this has diminished. I hope that's the case. I
41:44
Speaker 1: don't know if it has, but it feels like it has,
41:47
Speaker 1: and I hope that that continues. I hope that we
41:49
Speaker 1: can treat this as the sporting event that it is
41:51
Speaker 1: without it being something where we judge people based on
41:55
Speaker 1: some perceived sexuality that is not actually a part of
41:58
Speaker 1: their sport.
41:59
Speaker 2: Right absolutely. So what we can say, though, is if
42:01
Speaker 2: you want to judge anybody judge the folks that have
42:03
Speaker 2: put these ads out.
42:12
Speaker 1: All right, well, we do have some more interesting things
42:14
Speaker 1: to say besides our continuous ranting of the things that
42:18
Speaker 1: we think of as our values. They are our values.
42:20
Speaker 1: We don't have to just say that. We don't have
42:22
Speaker 1: to add that many qualifiers. Yeah, our values are to
42:24
Speaker 1: respect people and honor the work that they do, and
42:27
Speaker 1: to treat people with compassion and to end violence. But anyway,
42:31
Speaker 1: we have other interesting things to say. One of them
42:34
Speaker 1: is that Daytona Beach where Shane is hosts the annual
42:38
Speaker 1: NCA College Nationals every year, which is one of the
42:41
Speaker 1: largest cheerleading competitions in the world, and it takes place
42:45
Speaker 1: in the historic band shell. What does bandshell? What does
42:48
Speaker 1: that mean?
42:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the bandshell is it's one of those structures
42:52
Speaker 2: that it's for music, like for music structures where it's
42:55
Speaker 2: like the actual like concave like half circle type of situation. Oh,
42:59
Speaker 2: gotchastics all that, and so there is a historic bandshell
43:02
Speaker 2: and it exists on our beach.
43:04
Speaker 1: Oh.
43:04
Speaker 2: So you've got the bandshell and you've got this big
43:06
Speaker 2: concrete plate where everybody hangs out, and then there's the
43:09
Speaker 2: beach like in the background. And the backdrop it's incredible,
43:12
Speaker 2: it's beautiful. And so here's a fun fact too. Two
43:15
Speaker 2: things first, well three things. First of all, my first
43:18
Speaker 2: concert ever ever was seeing Cheap Trick at the Bandshell
43:22
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty eight, So the first So that was
43:24
Speaker 2: the I was two years old.
43:25
Speaker 1: What yeah too, I always too.
43:27
Speaker 2: And so I don't remember it at all, but I
43:29
Speaker 2: saw them there. And second, Bad Brains, the punk band
43:33
Speaker 2: the one of the most influential and important punk bands
43:35
Speaker 2: of all time. Bad Brains played there at the Banchhell
43:39
Speaker 2: in the eighties and there's a really cool video on YouTube.
43:42
Speaker 2: You can watch them performing at the Bandshell in Daytona,
43:45
Speaker 2: the same place where they hold the NCAA College National
43:48
Speaker 2: Cheerleading Competition, which is an international, highly competitive competition they
43:54
Speaker 2: hold there every year. So that's where Bad Brains comes in.
43:57
Speaker 1: This almost makes me want to do a whole thing
43:58
Speaker 1: about just entertainment venues because it is wild, like how
44:02
Speaker 1: many different types of events entertainment venues have hosted. Yeah,
44:05
Speaker 1: and like the kind of accommodations, the different accommodations those
44:09
Speaker 1: types of events all need is is Yeah, it's just
44:12
Speaker 1: fun to think, like if I was standing in the
44:15
Speaker 1: same spot and zoomed back, like forty years what would
44:18
Speaker 1: be happening, And it's like, oh, this influential punk band
44:21
Speaker 1: would be playing. If I zoom ahead to another thirty years,
44:24
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, there's a cheerleading competition happening around me.
44:27
Speaker 1: Like just how wild it is that those all sort
44:29
Speaker 1: of happen.
44:30
Speaker 2: And a Sugar Ray cover band. I used to work
44:32
Speaker 2: at the Starbucks that was like at the bandshell, so
44:34
Speaker 2: like I would, I would work during cheer week and
44:37
Speaker 2: it was a wild nightmare nightmare. The amount of extra
44:42
Speaker 2: caramel caramel frappucinos I'd have to make every morning from
44:44
Speaker 2: six am astounding. We actually talked about like we would
44:49
Speaker 2: have to squeeze the caramel bottle so hard because there
44:51
Speaker 2: would be so much caramel. Like we developed a syndrome
44:54
Speaker 2: called carmel tunnel. Syndrome, said carl tunnel, because our hands
44:57
Speaker 2: would hurt so much because it was so much extra karmel.
45:00
Speaker 1: That's very good.
45:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun.
45:02
Speaker 1: By the way that in case we no one caught it,
45:05
Speaker 1: that was our bad brains tie in there. Yes, yes,
45:08
Speaker 1: it was our next one. Here is fun fact. George W. Bush. Yes,
45:12
Speaker 1: our forty was a second president, I think the first.
45:16
Speaker 1: Let's look this up real time fact checking. Forty third,
45:20
Speaker 1: forty third president, thank you. Yeah, so, our forty third
45:23
Speaker 1: president of the United States was a cheerleader at Yale
45:26
Speaker 1: during his time at university.
45:27
Speaker 2: Huh.
45:27
Speaker 1: That actually makes me respect him a bit more than
45:30
Speaker 1: I did before.
45:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's not a lot there. There's not
45:34
Speaker 2: a lot of respect for that guy. But like it's
45:36
Speaker 2: bumped up a little bit.
45:37
Speaker 1: I would say, Yeah, Shane is gesturing with his hands,
45:40
Speaker 1: where if you had your baseline level, you could move
45:42
Speaker 1: it up one notch above that. The baseline level is
45:44
Speaker 1: not high, but you know one matchup is still move
45:47
Speaker 1: in the right direction at least.
45:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, also too, I thought this was
45:51
Speaker 2: a really fun fact. Cheerleading is estimated to generate about
45:53
Speaker 2: two billion dollars a year between training camps, television deals, sponsorships, competitions, merchandising.
45:59
Speaker 2: Two billion dollars a year.
46:01
Speaker 1: In the US. That is two billion dollars more than
46:04
Speaker 1: I make.
46:04
Speaker 2: That's yeah, yeah, that is so much more money than
46:08
Speaker 2: I could imagine.
46:09
Speaker 1: I had no idea they were moving that kind of
46:11
Speaker 1: cash arounds. That's impressive. Huh.
46:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild, all right.
46:15
Speaker 1: So cheerleading, that's what we have to say about that.
46:17
Speaker 1: It is an interesting sport that I think seems to
46:20
Speaker 1: have started as a coordinated way to bring an audience
46:24
Speaker 1: participation and invigorate your crowd and try and encourage your teams. Yes,
46:29
Speaker 1: has continue to evolve from there into a pretty competitive
46:33
Speaker 1: athletic event, and good on those people who have taken
46:37
Speaker 1: on that challenge and hopefully please be safe again. I
46:41
Speaker 1: really implore the organizers of these things to push the
46:45
Speaker 1: bar as far as improving safety in these spaces, because
46:48
Speaker 1: we really love watching humans achieve these incredible athletic feats
46:52
Speaker 1: and we don't want to do that at the expense
46:54
Speaker 1: of people as well being right exactly. So that's what
46:57
Speaker 1: we have to say about cheerleading. If you would like
46:59
Speaker 1: to tell us your opinions about cheerleading, you can email
47:01
Speaker 1: us directly. We really love hearing from people. You can
47:04
Speaker 1: reach us at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com, or on
47:08
Speaker 1: the social media platforms. We are going to recommend some
47:12
Speaker 1: things to you that are unrelated to cheering, but they're
47:15
Speaker 1: things that we want to recommend anyway. But before I
47:17
Speaker 1: do that, let me continue on with these credits that
47:20
Speaker 1: I have already kind of started. If you would like
47:22
Speaker 1: to support what we do in addition to emailing us,
47:25
Speaker 1: that's one way you can support us, I guess is
47:27
Speaker 1: that you can join us on Patreon. When you do,
47:30
Speaker 1: you get access to behind the scenes content, bonus goodies,
47:33
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. Also, I'm going to say thank
47:36
Speaker 1: you to your face in front of everybody, and that
47:38
Speaker 1: includes thank you to these people, Mike, m Megan, Mike T, Justin, Kim, Joshua, Brad, Stephanie, Olivia, Brian, Ashley,
47:47
Speaker 1: Kiara and Michelle. Thank you all for your continued support.
47:50
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you all over the place.
47:53
Speaker 2: Yes, we love you so much, like social sist is
47:55
Speaker 2: so much.
47:56
Speaker 1: And you listener, if I didn't say your name, well
47:58
Speaker 1: I could you go ahead and join the group and
48:00
Speaker 1: we'd be happy to have you over there. If you
48:02
Speaker 1: would like to support us in a way that is
48:04
Speaker 1: not a commitment to monthly subscription membership service where we
48:09
Speaker 1: read your name and appreciate you mightily, you can also
48:11
Speaker 1: head over to our merch store. We some mugs and
48:13
Speaker 1: hats and beanies and sweaters and all kinds of stuff
48:16
Speaker 1: over there. But if you don't want to drop any
48:18
Speaker 1: dough whatsoever. You can leave us a rating and a review,
48:21
Speaker 1: at least a rating. You just click those five stars
48:23
Speaker 1: if you're feeling up to it, right That review makes
48:25
Speaker 1: people feel good. And tell a friend. Go word of mouth,
48:28
Speaker 1: you know, just say check out this cool podcast I
48:31
Speaker 1: heard about cheerleading, and then they will subscribe and then
48:34
Speaker 1: we'll have more people just like you joining us every week.
48:37
Speaker 1: And that's just lovely. So we appreciate that too.
48:39
Speaker 2: Yes, we do.
48:40
Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you so much for your preparation on these
48:43
Speaker 1: notes and for recording with me today. Shane, thank you,
48:46
Speaker 1: Thank you everyone for listening, and thank you to my
48:49
Speaker 1: team of people without whom I could not make this
48:51
Speaker 1: podcast at all, but let alone this episode so running
48:53
Speaker 1: in fact checking from Shane, Katie and myself. Our social
48:57
Speaker 1: media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our audio engineer, who
49:01
Speaker 1: does all of the important work that makes this sound
49:03
Speaker 1: like two people having a conversation is Justin Greenhouse. Thank
49:06
Speaker 1: you so much. Justin Ah so great. I think I
49:10
Speaker 1: have gotten through our credits. Are we ready to recommend
49:12
Speaker 1: some things?
49:13
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
49:21
Speaker 1: Recommendations all right? We are both recommending very similar things today.
49:28
Speaker 1: I just got out of the Halloween season, but while
49:30
Speaker 1: in the midst of the Halloween season, we have been
49:33
Speaker 1: enjoying some spooky things and we have not recommended them
49:36
Speaker 1: all yet. One of the spooky things I got to
49:38
Speaker 1: enjoy was this movie released on HBO and it is
49:42
Speaker 1: called Salem's Lot. If you've heard of this, it is
49:45
Speaker 1: because it is an adaptation of the Stephen King novel
49:48
Speaker 1: and not the first one this has been done before,
49:51
Speaker 1: so it's sort of in the horror movie realm. I
49:54
Speaker 1: think pretty clearly. There creepy, spooky type stuff, so it's
49:59
Speaker 1: not for necessary like super young audiences maybe or people
50:03
Speaker 1: who find themselves very sensitive to horror type themes. This
50:06
Speaker 1: is not super gory on that end of things, but
50:09
Speaker 1: there is some of that, so if you were adverse
50:11
Speaker 1: to blood to just be warned that that is an
50:13
Speaker 1: aspect of this film. But I thought it was really good.
50:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I have not seen the previous Salem's Lot,
50:18
Speaker 1: I have not read the book. But to me, this
50:21
Speaker 1: worked as a movie. If you're not going into it
50:23
Speaker 1: thinking I want a perfect adaptation of Stephen King's book
50:26
Speaker 1: or I want a perfect modern recreation of that old
50:29
Speaker 1: movie you might not enjoy this. I don't know since
50:31
Speaker 1: I haven't seen them, but I found that it worked
50:34
Speaker 1: really well as a movie. I enjoyed it. So if
50:36
Speaker 1: you're looking for some spooky Stephen King related content out there,
50:41
Speaker 1: then you can go find Salem's Lot streaming on HBO.
50:44
Speaker 1: Like I said, I had a lot of fun with it.
50:46
Speaker 1: I thought it was good, So go check it out. Yeah,
50:49
Speaker 1: it's exciting stuff.
50:50
Speaker 2: I love it. I can't wait to watch it. I'm
50:52
Speaker 2: super looking forward to it. I'm recommending a movie called Trap,
50:55
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four movie by m Night Shyamalan. Now
50:59
Speaker 2: you might hear that name. Go nah, So I'm gonna
51:01
Speaker 2: tell everybody right now, I think that this is a
51:04
Speaker 2: great outing by him. Okay, And what's really nice about
51:07
Speaker 2: this is he's kind of subverted the expectations of what
51:10
Speaker 2: he does where you know, everybody knows him for like
51:13
Speaker 2: the twist ending, right, Like everybody's like, ah, the twist
51:15
Speaker 2: ending and da da da da dad. And he's got
51:17
Speaker 2: a couple of movies without doing that. This one is
51:19
Speaker 2: perfect because he gets it right out in the open,
51:22
Speaker 2: like right in the very beginning, He's like, yeah, Josh
51:25
Speaker 2: Harten it's the killer, like, and that's all made really
51:28
Speaker 2: clear in the trailers, right, he's the butcher. Yeah, And
51:30
Speaker 2: so the story goes just so everybody is aware Josh
51:34
Speaker 2: Hartnett is a serial killer and he is bringing his
51:38
Speaker 2: daughter to this concert. It's very much so like a
51:42
Speaker 2: big pop star at an arena. And then he starts
51:45
Speaker 2: noticing that there's a lot of police around, like more
51:48
Speaker 2: so than there usually is at these types of things.
51:50
Speaker 2: And then he finds out that the entire concert is
51:54
Speaker 2: set up as a trap to catch him. Okay, so
51:57
Speaker 2: the whole movie is operating with the serial kill knowing
52:00
Speaker 2: that he is inside of a trap, figuring out how
52:03
Speaker 2: to get out of a trap. And it is so good.
52:06
Speaker 2: Josh hart it is incredible in this like he is
52:08
Speaker 2: like there's some he has these like character switches that
52:11
Speaker 2: are like really menacing and really kind of unsettling, and
52:14
Speaker 2: some of the shots in it are really cool, and
52:16
Speaker 2: they do a really good job of the entire story.
52:20
Speaker 2: It's not gory at all because he's a serial killer.
52:22
Speaker 2: It's not gory. It's more of a psychological thriller. Okay,
52:25
Speaker 2: and the cast is great. So you got Josh Hartnett
52:28
Speaker 2: You've got Ariel Donahue, which is who plays his daughter
52:31
Speaker 2: in it, who's really really great. Selika Knight Shamalan is
52:35
Speaker 2: m Night Shamalan's daughter who plays the pop star Lady Raven.
52:38
Speaker 2: You got Alison pill who is Rachel Abbott, who is
52:41
Speaker 2: Josh Harten's wife in it. And it just is a
52:43
Speaker 2: lot of fun. It's it's tense the entire time. Okay,
52:47
Speaker 2: it's great. It looked good. The trailers made it look good.
52:50
Speaker 1: They probably should have issued some minor spoilers for some
52:53
Speaker 1: of the elements of that. But but I think you
52:55
Speaker 1: obviously didn't give away very much. But yeah, I'm very intrigued.
53:00
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go watch this. And I have
53:02
Speaker 1: taken on quite a few of your recommendations lately. Listen
53:04
Speaker 1: to some of the bands you've recommended and whatnot. So
53:07
Speaker 1: those are the things we're recommending today. I love Salem's
53:09
Speaker 1: Lot and Trap. I believe that these were both released
53:13
Speaker 1: on HBO, so I think you can find them both there, yes,
53:16
Speaker 1: or maybe it's just called Max now whatever. Anyway, I
53:20
Speaker 1: don't know what it is with people lately rebranding the
53:23
Speaker 1: names of things with worst names, but this is not
53:26
Speaker 1: the first time that that's happened. Yeah, so that's the thing.
53:29
Speaker 1: But anyway, go check out Salem's Lot and Trap if
53:32
Speaker 1: you're wanting to be maybe a little bit scared, a
53:34
Speaker 1: little bit on the edge of your seat, and if not,
53:36
Speaker 1: then maybe check out something else. Maybe go do some cheerleading.
53:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
53:40
Speaker 1: I think that is all that we have to say.
53:42
Speaker 1: If you're a cheerleader, you should definitely reach out to
53:44
Speaker 1: us and share your stories. We'd be happy to share
53:46
Speaker 1: those Otherwise. I think that is it. Is there anything
53:49
Speaker 1: that I forgot or you would like to add before
53:51
Speaker 1: we wrap up today.
53:52
Speaker 2: Shane, No, I think that covers it.
53:54
Speaker 1: Go Team, Go Team. Thanks all. This is Abraham, this
53:58
Speaker 1: is Shane. We're out ya. You've been listening to Why
54:03
Speaker 1: We Do what we Do. You can learn more about
54:05
Speaker 1: this and other episodes by going to WWDWWD podcast dot com.
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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.