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Bonus Patreon Release: Vapor! With Molly Lazer! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grey Malkin Lane Patreon channel.
0:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This is your host Chad Anderson.
0:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm joined by the incredible and lovely Molly Laser.
0:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We are here to talk about.
0:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Molly has become my go-to guest for all fantastic four tangents.
0:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a life-ful, life-ful space to occupy.
0:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, at the end of May, we're going to be doing the trial of Janet Van Dyne and the Wasp, who is one of my all-time favorite characters.
0:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And the theme over here on the Patreon this month is the only girl on the team.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to be analyzing characters who occupy that rarefied space of being the only girl on the team.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we have some surprises for you.
0:38
[SPEAKER_01]: When you think about characters, you're going to think like Medusa or Jean Gray, you know, but we're going to hit you from some surprising angles and we're going to open the month here with the character vapor and our now, which is an excellent name, vapor of the UFOs.
0:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So Molly is a former Marvel editor, current high school teacher and mom.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Molly, it's so great to have you here.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had not heard of the UFOs before I started working at Marvel.
1:03
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't really in my comics reading prior to that, but I did work with them, if you will, a bit while I was there at Marvel and they've cropped up in issues that I have read since then.
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: but they're still like up until reading for this episode, not like fully on my radar as being as cool as they actually are.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're really scary.
1:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And they, you know, as kind of like an evil fantastic for, they actually have really cool and very scary powers.
1:34
[SPEAKER_00]: My experience with them prior to now has been that they kind of been played off as like sort of jokes.
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: and a lot of the comics that I've read with them thus far.
1:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, they're actually quite powerful and quite dangerous, and I think they could be like, they all have been and could be in the future, like really well-utilized as really scary villains.
1:53
[SPEAKER_01]: They often are, my favorite single appearance of these characters is when they showed up in Allewings Immortal Hulk, in which they were treated very scary.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very horror trope.
2:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will be very happy to talk about that later.
2:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So we, Molly and I've talked about a couple of parallels of the fantastic fort.
2:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We, in our Marvel magic episode, we talked a lot about how like read Sue John and Johnny and Ben are like water, fire, air and earth in their own way.
2:22
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of ways of kind of
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: analyzing who got the powers and how those turned out and what they mean and it's really interesting.
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Sue Storm, of course, is the invisible girl who ends up being the most powerful person on the team over time as she learns her capabilities, but we see weird parallels of the FF from time to time.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, just this morning before we recorded, I read the new Marvel zombies Red Band number one in which the fantastic four when they land back on Earth instead of, I mean, they get the same powers, but they also are zombies when they return.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're really scary versions of the characters.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Mr.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic is horrified.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got his chompy, you know, zombie teeth.
3:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He's stretching out and grabbing everybody.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We occasionally see horror tropes where like when they return, you know, sous-storm, skin turns invisible.
3:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can just see all of her organs and read melts in a pile of goo and Johnny lights on fire.
3:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like a horror bend to these characters and then Molly Sean and I did the super ape so while back, which is, you know, I've even Trag off going off into space with his monkeys and they all come back with like odd parallels of the FF's powers, the UFO's another version of that
3:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I mean, super heroes in themselves are creepy.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine that if you see a superhero in real life, it would not be cool.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be scary.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fantastic four in particular, like all their powers really led themselves to horror.
3:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Reed is body horror.
3:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what he is.
3:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I've seen a lot of instances in which Sue is portrayed with as just like, a skeleton or a muscular church system.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's gross, and it's creepy.
3:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, someone's walking around on fire.
4:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's scary.
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, Ben is probably the least creepy one of them.
4:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So being a giant rock monster, that's just not as creepy.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But read Richards in particular is a horrifying almost always.
4:12
[SPEAKER_01]: When he, like, morphs his whole body to turn into a dinosaur for a little Franklin around, I'm like, what?
4:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting because I think there was a period of time in which his powers weren't being used in as cool ways as they were actually back when Stan and Jack were writing him and as they are being used now.
4:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the blood hunt episode where he stretches his skin out to protect people.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You watch his skin start to tear because he's stretched it too far right in nor at the wow.
4:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's wow.
4:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's also like always pulling out his eyeballs to like look at stuff and like I don't know there's a lot of panels where I try the page and I'm like, uh.
4:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Sue Storm, I would love to do the trial of Susan Storm one day.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a character I really love.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a particular affinity for Marvel's 60s chicks in particular.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some of my favorite characters.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Betty Brant and I love Karen Page and I love pepper pots.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all these old characters.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: In my mind, vapor was a 60s chick in my brain.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But she's not.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't show up until 1980, which is what I have bought on that.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So her now and our now.
5:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my thoughts on sues storm those sues powers are really scary when utilized well.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: When you just look at the invisible man in comics, the invisible area in literature, I mean, the invisible man is horror character, right?
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you see like the invisible man films, it's not usually something pleasant.
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's usually a really scary thing.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Vapers powers are kind of one-off in the way Sue's are, oh, I can turn it visible.
5:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Vapers like, ooh, I can dissipate into Mist, but when you start applying them and using your brain behind it, she very quickly becomes the scariest person on the team.
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, the most powerful if she's utilized well.
6:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, the U-FOS first appear in credible Hulk 254, written by Bill Mantlow, Art Baisalbioshema.
6:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's December 1980, and the title is waiting for the UFOs, and it's a U-Hython F-O-E-S.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's very much giving U-F-O if you look at the title.
6:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reason their name, this, is think of Reed Richards naming himself Mr.
6:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.
6:22
[SPEAKER_01]: The leader of their group, the parallel of Reed, is Simon Utrecht, who becomes Vector, and he's the rich charismatic guy with no morals.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: and he named the group after him basically.
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The U is for Utrecht.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So the idea of Simon as the parallel to Reed, his powers, he ends up after they get the cosmic rays.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it in a second.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Simon Utrecht is a vector.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a suit that's like bright yellow and like pulsating with like cosmic imagery, planets, suns, moving and shifting.
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: He got this pattern at Joanne's fabric and really just went to town.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a wealthy smart guy who, you know, I, I believe what it was his idea, right, for them all to try to make themselves into the fantastic four by getting hit with Cosmic Race.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: What I, and he, in the same way that Reed does, he orders around his teammates, and I'll save my other thought on that for later, because I see a difference between him and Reed with regards to how he treats his teammates.
7:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, yeah.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And his power is basically to repel or attract.
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So he has like these waves that can push things away or bring them closer, which is an odd parallel for read Richards.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing version on this team is Ironclad.
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: His name is Mike Steele.
7:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And when he goes through the powers, he turns into like a really shiny metal man.
7:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like Colossus without all the straighted marks.
7:42
[SPEAKER_01]: His eyes glow red.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very quang, quang, quang, as he stomps around.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: He's literally made of metal.
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Ironclad is a parallel to the thing.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Thoughts?
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the bruiser, right?
7:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
7:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have the Girlfriend's Kid Brother, which is the Johnny Storm role.
7:59
[SPEAKER_01]: This character turns into X-ray.
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: His name is Jimmy Darnell.
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He's glowing with bright pink energy.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of like a radioactive human torch.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's scary in that he can, you know, Johnny could burn you up.
8:11
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy can give you diseases.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about it by radiating around you.
8:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I do like that he has different types of energies that he can like emit and I think that's interesting with the UFOs that they really to some extent have a choice of what they can do whereas in the fantastic for they have, you know, their powers and they actually do a lot with them but for Johnny like it's fire, but it's fire, but it's fire.
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then the last member of the team who we're here to celebrate, and Darnell, I love this name.
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's giving the very 1960s or 40s like film star.
8:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And Darnell, brown hair, like a little simple green frog dress, and she becomes vapor.
8:48
[SPEAKER_01]: She becomes kind of like a wispy Victorian ghost.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: She just kind of appears in a lot of her appearances, like a wispy breeze on the, you know, I like cloud on the breeze, but like it's got human features, gender
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: She's usually colored green.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Her visual is not much to play with and tell it gets really scary at certain points in the comics.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is where I think there's I think the fact that they were even though they feel 1960s and I agree with that.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that they were created in the 80s plays into it because with regards to the team dynamics, I don't see anybody treating and like just in the ones that I read.
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see anybody treating vapor, like, you know, the woman of the group in the way that they did to sue in the fantastic form for like the first, you know, 10 15 20 years of the fantastic for being around that she's very much like an equal and when when vector is ordering them around he's not like putting anyone down, which I think is really different than early fantastic for appearances.
9:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're gonna talk about her powers as we go.
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But let me introduce this first appearance.
9:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Waiting for the UFOs as Rodents run in fright, the Hulk is standing under a full moon, wondering if the stars can help him feel less lonely.
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He's so lonely, in fact, that he tries leaping into space and ends up crashing back into Earth before he changes back to Bruce Matter.
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of Hulk hijinks in this era where as Leo Williams calls him brand-ed Hulk, just kind of his like, well, no, no, no, it won't like me.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, he turns back to better.
10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Hulk also a horror character waiting to happen.
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We then move over to Utrecht Industries.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And this name is UTRECHT.
10:26
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a facility in the desert and inside in the mission control room, we meet Simon Utrecht, millionaire.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Steal, scientist and pilot.
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So Mike's a scientist
10:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy Darnell, the fuel propulsion engineer, and and Darnell, the life support specialist.
10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of giving planet of the apes crew to me in some ways.
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: This is clearly, there are clearly derivatives of the FF.
10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to go off into space.
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going without my brother and me Simon.
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: As your propulsion and life support engineers, this flight could make us more than merely famous.
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We later see her say life support systems online.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: What greater acts could we have performed if you hadn't interfered?
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Hulk jumps up and ends up fighting these guys.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They land back on Earth as transformed not as the fantastic four, but as these kind of scary monster versions of themselves.
11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Nutrics goal had been to become rich and famous by getting superpowers.
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of how cool we could be if we go get these cosmic rays at this exact moment.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: They end up fighting the Hulk.
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of scary moments just focusing on this on vapor.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: She quickly learns how to turn her body into noxious gas.
11:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, Hulk isn't, and noxious gas is joking me, filling my lungs in vapor says, what else would you expect from an encounter with vapor, which is such a good name?
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I, she says, you may strike the others, Hulk, but you cannot strike one who's form, you cannot touch.
11:55
[SPEAKER_01]: but by transforming my atoms into those of an accurate searing mustard gas vapor can harm you.
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a full horror movie moment as the team is fighting.
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and ends up on fire as their powers begin to malfunction.
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm shifting back to my vapor state again.
12:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Against my will, Simon, I'm dissipating, blowing apart in the breeze.
12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't hold my atoms together.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna talk about some of the key moments in this fight, but what are your thoughts on this first appearance of the UFOs?
12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Excellent story telling.
12:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it correct that the Hulk actually was trying to save them?
12:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why he like messed up with their spaceship.
12:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that that's interesting and they get all pissy at him for like, you know, messing with their plans, except they still did get powers.
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes me wonder what they, you know, expected to happen.
12:46
[SPEAKER_00]: If since they still got powers, but they feel as though something different would have happened if Hulk hadn't screwed it up their
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we first meet the team, let me do a little deeper analysis on the issue.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: When we first meet the team, uh, their assignment you tracked has put this flight together.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in a purple coat.
13:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He's smoking a pipe.
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very read Richards.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And Mike steals like, you're out of your mind.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: If we go up in an unshielded ship, we're going to be in big danger.
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you're not getting the point, like that's what we're doing on purpose.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And a Simon Utrecht explains, excuse me, years ago, a similar for some gather on a night such as this, they're goal to fly a ship to the moon.
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: They never reach their destination.
13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Cosmic rays penetrated their ship.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: They're very cells transforming them into the fantastic four.
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you see Mike says, Jimmy, a Simon hasn't spent all his dough simply to explore space.
13:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's NASA's job.
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to duplicate the first flight of the fantastic force, even with less shielding, so that we can gain superpowers too.
13:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And they are ready to go up and is very dedicated to Simon specifically.
13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: appears to be a very loving relationship, and it also seems to have the age difference that read and sue initially are introduced with, was Simon is kind of gray-haired and Anne is like very, very pretty and shapely in her little green frock, you know.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They end up going up into space we get similar images to the FF or they're all in their initial, you know, flight suits and doing their jobs.
14:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The cosmic rays bombard them and
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: and it is pure horror as they crash back to Earth.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Bruce Banner detects this and runs to find out what has happened.
14:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we initially see them, they're in very scary forms.
14:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Ironclad in particular, he gets like more like he looks like more like sheets of metal in this first appearance where later he just looks like a solid like metal human form.
14:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're, they're in these like transformed costumes and vapor again is that very Victorian ghost energy.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFOs are led to believe that because Bruce Banner interfered with the machine while they were up in space and he was checking on them.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: that's what caused them to absorb extra cosmic rays and thus become monsters.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So they are just trying to kick Bruce Banner's ass before he turns into the Hulk.
15:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a really fun superhero brawl between them.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Vapor tries to choke him with noxious gases.
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We see her also turning into a mustard gas at a particular point to try to kill him.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are a lot of horror tropes in this initial appearance, especially when x-ray bombards the Hulk, we get this image of like Hulk's glowing skeleton underneath his gamma skin.
15:23
[SPEAKER_01]: In the end, we've basically see the youth UFOs quickly like falling to the ground because their powers have gone so out of control.
15:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not feeling well vapors dissipating and under like an unable to figure out how to retain her corporeal form.
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're defeated by their own hubris in this final, final moments.
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Really powerful first appearance for some very scary versions of the FF.
15:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So Molly's going to keep us going with their next appearance, which is a little longer section from a whole 275 to 278.
15:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
15:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So these issues came out, I think in 1982, I really, there was a, like, a little quote that I really liked that I wrote at the beginning of my notes, a man can't live by being mad alone.
16:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And not necessarily related to the UFOs.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I just
16:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and also my other notes for this is Jacta is super cool.
16:10
[SPEAKER_00]: This is this character who shows up why I probably have seen her at some point before, but I'll get to her.
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we don't see any UFOs in the end of issue 275, where we see Ironclad alone waiting for the rest of the UFOs at UTEC.
16:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You tracked industries when X-ray vector and vapor show up.
16:29
[SPEAKER_00]: In 276, the UFOs interrupt a heated conversation between Betty Ross and Bruce Banner.
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And at this point, Bruce is in full control over his transformation into the Hulk.
16:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And he maintains his intelligence when he's in Hulk form.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: The UFOs are there for revenge.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It says, they believe their powers are limited because of Bruce's intervention.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: They all attack and vapor turns herself into air that burns Bruce's lungs.
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Rick Jones reminds Bruce, who seems to have forgotten that he can turn into the Hulk at any time.
16:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So he does.
16:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Vapor points out that there is a mind guiding the monster and Bruce insults the UFOs and says that Simon Utrecht paid others to do the UFOs thinking for them.
17:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And he does his Hulk clap and sends vapor away on the wind.
17:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he trashes the other UFOs.
17:13
[SPEAKER_00]: X-ray says they need to pull together as a team and vector, shout-out instructions, X-ray shoots gamma-negative rays at Hulk and turns them back into Bruce Banner.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Ironclad shows back up even dispatched as just vapor, who in her gaseous form goes into Bruce's body.
17:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really horrific, and she says to him, I bet you've never been kissed like that before, which is amazing.
17:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Vector says they're not going to kill Banner now but later at a time in place of our own choosing when the eyes of the world are upon us.
17:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So in issue 276 the UFOs take Banner somewhere and they're broadcasting their torture of him on TV and the Fantastic Four are watching reads intimidated by the UFOs because they've beaten the Hulk which is something the FF has never done.
17:59
[SPEAKER_00]: The Avengers are watching, the defenders are watching.
18:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Ironclad doesn't understand why they're going to kill Bruce Banner.
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Vapor calls him dense, which is a rimshot.
18:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And tells Vector to explain it to him again.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Vector recounts the origin story and how when they fought the Hulk for the first time their own powers turned against them, we see Vapor dissipating away on the breeze in a flashback.
18:21
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, X-ray wants Banner to take accountability for their attempt at getting powers going wrong.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And Vector says they craved power for its own sake, the power to install fear in our fellow humans.
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: They per se as they'll get that power by destroying the monster men called a whole quirk, what where all others have failed.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Bruce's friends arrived, his friends like not any other heroes, but like Betty and Rick and what is her name?
18:46
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an alien woman named Beret here.
18:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's it.
18:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's so weird.
18:51
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a series called Rampaging Hulk that ran for a little while where all the Hulk stories did not fit into continuity.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they create this character, Barit, and tell the stories in the rampaging hall where her like making a movie about the whole counter planet.
19:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So now she's part of the supporting cast.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like recording new footage for her film.
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like a woman.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like a woman.
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a strange character.
19:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very weird.
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so they all show up and they catch the UFOs off guard and Berit uses her energy eaters, which are some of her because she's an artist, you see.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: These are some of her techno art creation.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, have a little tomato with a face hanging out with her strawberry.
19:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And they break up the energy grid that's holding Bruce and Bruce turns into the Hulk, Hulk wraps X-ray up in the energy grid and just tosses him away.
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And Vector, or sorry, Vapor says, X-rays my younger brother, you're going to regret every laying hands on him, Hulk.
19:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And she admits the Hulk could probably defeat Ironclad, but not her.
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And she transforms into a constant gas, but Hulk holds Ironclad in front of him and she burns him instead.
19:54
[SPEAKER_00]: She's horrified.
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And she
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: and vector, then orders her to turn herself in.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to this dialogue.
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in this gas.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Ironclad is like melting because she touched him.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like ironclad's flesh.
20:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The acid is pitting it, poking it, burning it over, burning its way ever inward.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Hort, that's horrible.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: with it.
20:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So, vector orders her to turn her into an anesthetic to numb iron clads, so she does that.
20:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's basically there, the rest of the issue, like helping him.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And vector basically throws the entire gamma base at Hulk and Hulk's allies flee up Hulk crushes vector's hands.
20:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it issue 278, Doc Samson shows up and Betty explains what happened to him.
20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We see that they were still trying to help iron clad, and the UFOs have been pretty thoroughly defeated.
20:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a, do you want to talk about Jack Dahl?
20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, she's not even in my summary, um, she's cool.
20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't find out in these issues who she's working for, but she has this like, this badass bell bottom, which like, I thought we're amazing and she flies around and she's cool.
20:59
[SPEAKER_00]: She's, yeah.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: She's kind of like, for Xman Finch, she's kind of like Dragon S. She's like a woman, her name's Heather Ogara.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: She has like metal wings and she works for the leader.
21:07
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't have a lot of appearances, but she's fun.
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I love her bell bottoms.
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Bury also has this like little like vacuum cleaner creature hanging out with her that has like lips in a single eyeball a lot It's just that weird
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: What have we learned about vapor so far?
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And Andarnell is very, very loyal to her team.
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: She's very upset and protective over them.
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if they get hurt, she thinks she's very smart.
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And she is like not only happy, she's so happy to like turn into gas and like get sucked into like superhero lungs and like burn them up.
21:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she's so joyful as she does this.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But then so horrified when her teammates are hurt.
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We also get the trope where like, all you have to do is blow her away before she gets in your lungs.
21:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Hulk claps and she dissipates on the breeze, right?
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I like her.
21:57
[SPEAKER_00]: She, you know, she's badass.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: She likes her powers.
22:00
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like confident in them.
22:03
[SPEAKER_00]: She really cares about her teammates.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, she seems like a cool girl.
22:08
[SPEAKER_00]: She is also just like a floating head.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like of all the issues you sent me, there was only like one run in which she had a body.
22:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she's just floating head with like a green vapor trail, which is, it's goofy looking.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to learn that she has trouble forming a corporeal form if she does it can only be for a few minutes like she lives in a vapor state now and maybe with practice she could do things but the visual we often get is like a smoky green trail that's like forming into her like head shoulders and hands as she's like reaching toward you.
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's giving very like Halloween cartoon, right?
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But then there's also forms like where the vapor just takes on her face.
22:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And she often like that face will get like stretched out over areas as she's like dissipating or like reaching for you.
22:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's giving very ghost energy.
22:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen her do mustard gas, but then we also learn she can do an aesthetic gas, which means she's capable of greater amounts of healing if she chose to turn into like nice things instead of like burning acid gross stuff.
23:07
[SPEAKER_00]: There is another issue you had me read later where she also does some sort of healing.
23:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for where it is.
23:13
[SPEAKER_00]: She she becomes like, well, I'll get to it later.
23:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But she she does do a good deal of healing work on her own teammates when they get injured.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Victor and X-ray are both really scary, but there is somehow comical ironclad.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see him fight Colossus where we just hear like big metal clanks.
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But all of these characters, if treated individually, have some really interesting potential.
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We see them next to an incredible Hulk 304305.
23:38
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been sent to prison, and they're in a neutralizer grid with mega poles to keep their powers void.
23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Vapor is reading a book while her teammates are complaining, and they get to stay in the same cell, which seems like, no, I don't know.
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a wild thing to do for these four super villains.
23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's put them all together.
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Vector says,
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: The cosmic rays which gave us our powers hardly left any of us objects of human admiration.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They persist.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Speak for yourself, Vector.
24:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Outwardly, I'm every bit as beautiful as I was before, so we're seeing some vanity.
24:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Vector says yes, yes, Vapor, and still just as modest.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're all complaining soon as soon as soon.
24:16
[SPEAKER_01]: District Attorney, Allison Monroe, and also Attorney Henry Price Clarenger, stage a mock court hearing in which to try to convince the youths to voluntarily surrender their powers forever.
24:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But then the null field in the prison gets disrupted, so all of their powers return and of course they immediately attack.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: vapor renders some guards unconscious, vectors, powers, and up repelling back on the villains, which somehow interact with something and knock them out of reality, and then they end up in the interdimensional crossroads dimension that the Hulk is trapped in.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where the Hulk is going down different paths and ending up in all these different realities.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the mean meets Rocket Ratcoon, everybody.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So they see the Hulk, and they're like, oh, we get to kill the
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They were super excited.
25:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Vector's bossing them around, so he says vapor.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Iron-plad killed Hulk, and she's like, ask Vector, don't order.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And just remember that it was your power that stuck us here.
25:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps I should have let you languish in that special prison they constructed to hold us on Earth.
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says at least the view from behind the bars was recognisably normal.
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Here, dear, heaven, what are we seeing?
25:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're in one of those weird, like, Steve Ditko backdrop, like, all the realities are moving and meshing and weird.
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're shifting illusions that make the Hulk and the UFOs appear as children and then adolescents and then adults again, they're freaking out, Hulk fights with Ironclad, vapors threatens to take his breath away, having become a combination of searing acidic gases, vapour curls down the Hulk's throat.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Too late, the monster tries to hold his breath.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Only vapour is his breath, says the narrator.
25:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet you've never burned for any other lover as you've burned for me, Hulk.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: She loves some sultry dialogue.
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You've never been kissed like this.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she gives a lot of those types of words.
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps as the narrator, but where some love can make you sigh, vapor's love can only make you scream.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Hulk breathes out and covers ice, ironclad, in corrosive flames.
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So she has turned in corrosive glass, but he just like his super lungs propel her out.
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And she ends up burning ironclad again.
26:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no.
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: When the Hulk defeats Vector and X-ray, Vapor is furious and she wraps herself as poison around Hulk, but Hulk, who is mentally guided by Dr.
26:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Strange, leaps through a portal that leaves Vapor helpless, an airless at misfierless world at the dawn of its own creation, awaiting the moment of its own planetary birth.
26:42
[SPEAKER_01]: vapor attempts to scream tells the narrator, but no sound carries in the vacuum of space.
26:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Thus, vapor is left alone to dissipate, and perhaps to one day become the atmosphere this planet lacks.
26:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the end for this character for a little while.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: What are our thoughts on this story?
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
27:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Well again, more horror in this, like in all aspects, cosmic horror, body horror, psychological horror.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea of her getting trapped here, are you on her side in these appearances?
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in general, yes.
27:14
[SPEAKER_01]: women's wrongs on this show.
27:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We also support like, I don't know, there's a certain amount of anti-establishmentarianism that I'm very into with characters like this.
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not just caustically murdering civilian and she's only trying to kill superhuman.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And specifically the halt actually to this point mostly.
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, when we meet next to her, it's in Avengers 304.
27:35
[SPEAKER_01]: This is part of the Axe of Vengeance crossover.
27:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The character portal, who is a native American mutant character who can open portals, uh, accidentally opens a portal to the crossroads.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFOs use that and return to Earth.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So they've been trapped outside of reality for a while.
27:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They land right in front of the Avengers and Puma and a vapor specifically worries aloud that she's like, I thought I was going to go mad in that other world.
28:00
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a fight, it's fight.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We then jump to Avengers West Coast 53 where the UFOs have been imprisoned in the vault.
28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: They escape and they're like, we'll meet up later, but when vector doesn't show up, the UFOs see footage of him fighting the Avengers and assume that he's been killed.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're like, we're going to go after the Avengers ourselves.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So vapor attacks the Avengers West Coast compound and finds the Scarlet Witch in a fugue state because John Bern got his hands on her and slowly turned her evil, which is the lock story.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: She immediately tries to kill Wanda with cyanide gas form and then Wonderman gets her to safety and Ironman sucks vapor up into one of his armor's holding tanks.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So Vapor changes into a mononuclear mist and invades his entire armor, which then causes Iron Man to blast her back out.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Vapor blankets the Avengers with a caustic gas again, and then makes them choke before Wanda focuses a hex, which turns and back into her human form.
29:03
[SPEAKER_01]: which, her, maybe that's what she's been wanting for a while.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The vector shows up and realizes actually, it was Loki playing them the whole time, even though Ironclad's missing, they all depart.
29:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But when we finished this story, she's back in her human form.
29:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's say it reminds me of like Spider-Man vacuuming up Sandman into a vacuum cleaner, but she's able to get out.
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she seems a lot more like a capable and proactive in this situation.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I, uh, so we're seeing a pattern with her stories.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a very competent and kind of seems to want a simple life.
29:36
[SPEAKER_01]: She likes being sexy.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: She wants to just marry her millionaire boyfriend, but at the end of that first appearance, despite the fact that she's a life support specialist.
29:45
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, oh no, I'm dissipating away.
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, I'm burning ironclad.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, Hulk spit me out as acid gas, and I'm burning ironclad again.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, I'm sucking me up at his arbor.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a certain amount of horror that she shows that, uh, that is kind of compelling for this character.
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she's interested, actually.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we see her among the all female supervillain yachts, uh, where superior forms that, like, it's every supervillain female ever in that Captain America run.
30:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you read this story before Molly?
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's incredible.
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a six-issue stint.
30:18
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a woman named Superior who's like a feminist who wants to sterilize all men on the earth.
30:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And she has a yacht where she invites every female presenting supervillain and they have like a power pageant and they're making big plans.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Captain America and Paladin land on the ship, Superior captures them and tries to turn them into women in an estrogen tank.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So they first part of that story very briefly, so good, highly recommended.
30:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we see her in Dark Cock of all places.
30:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFOs break into the New York Hospital, remember when Portal returned them to Earth.
30:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they want to get portals to use them as an asset, but they fight Dark Cock and Daredevil.
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: She tries to turn it into mustard gas and then suffers her stupidest defeat.
31:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Daredevil swirls his Billy Club around and she blows away,
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a huge graphic novel called Avengers Death Trap The Vault where a bunch of super villains are breaking out of prison and they end up fighting the Avengers.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Really the only thing vapor does here is it works with thunderball very briefly to neutralize a gas that has been fired to knock the prisoners out, but that's kind of all she does in this issue.
31:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we go back to the Hulk, incredible Hulk 397, where the UFOs battle the Hulk and the pantheon that like race of gods that Peter David creates, and during the fight, vapor gets dispelled by hectors mace.
31:44
[SPEAKER_01]: She later turns into hydrogen, and then hits fire in order to cause an explosion, which is a really cool use of her powers, instead of just going caustically World War I gases, like she's learning how to turn
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: in herself into different elements.
31:57
[SPEAKER_01]: She does change in and out of her human form in this episode for the first time, so it's like Wanda fixed her power somehow, which is amazing.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And she ends up defeating the Hulk, getting defeated when the Hulk blasts her with oxygen, while she's hydrogen, which turns her into water, and then he mops her up with a mop.
32:17
[SPEAKER_00]: How degrading?
32:18
[SPEAKER_00]: How absolutely degrading?
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a, any story with the absorbing man.
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like right when he activates his powers, he's like, I'm gonna touch this metal, but they're like, no, I put a pretzel, you touch pretzel instead.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, no, no, I'm a crumbly pretzel and they're defeated.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I made that particular thing up, but that's how you beat up the absorbing man every time.
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: In this issue we get vapor saying things like so handsome.
32:41
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you like me to do you?
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Meaning kill you I says assume.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I write sure hold your breath all you want.
32:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll change to mustard gas and seep through your nose your ears and fry that scientific brain
32:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, a few issues later in 401 the UFOs are held for a time before Hulk threatens to kill Ironclad and the UFOs choose to leave peacefully, especially when they learn that Hulk has killed the leader.
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They're scared of this guy at this point, like he's gone nuts.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, vapor seems very furious when a vector lets the Hulk win.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We jump to Thunderbolts, we see them break out of the vault again, and then we jump to heroes for higher.
33:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's firmly the late 90s.
33:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Heroes Reborn is happening.
33:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Molly, were you around for heroes reborn?
33:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I, so no.
33:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I was not that, um, middle of the free time.
33:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little, well, it's like between my times.
33:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But I did go back and read some of like the FF stuff from that era.
33:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But, um, yeah, that's like between when I was reading times when I was reading comics.
33:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But uh, what year were you hired at Marvel?
33:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, 2004.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is like 1997, eight, uh, so it's several years before you got hired.
33:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Then yeah, okay.
33:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I saw, but I went back to reading comics earlier than that.
33:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think I probably just missed it by a couple, like two or three years.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is like when I was in high school, graduating, so like this is when I was actively buying the books for the first time, you know, a few years in.
34:03
[SPEAKER_01]: During Harris for Higher, the UFOs get like a pretty big amplification once again.
34:07
[SPEAKER_01]: They fight the team for a couple of issues and they're working for the, okay, well,
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Ironclad poses as a prisoner on a shield transport, and vapor in her transparent form disables the guardsmen, which successfully breaks the vault security systems down, allowing for a prison break.
34:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So the heroes for higher,
34:28
[SPEAKER_01]: which they're getting paid and they're like working for a company but there's all kinds of characters like Luke Cage and Iron Fist and various and sundry heroes running around here.
34:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFOs end up fighting the Hulk again because the Hulk's the one guy that didn't go over to the the hero's report world vapor goes into his lungs again and like makes him cough and taunts him the Hulk gets captured the group attacks the council meeting at the united nations
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're now mind controlling the Hulk using technology from the Iron Man villain that controller.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're making him an operative on their team.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The controller tech has been placed on the Hulk vapor threatens to have the Hulk twist their heads off of the the U.N. officials if they resist.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a group of isolated heroes who all end up fighting them.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: White Tiger, this woman is a literal white tiger who got hyper evolved by the high evolutionary
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Hercules iron fist, Hulk gets freed, and then again just claps to disperse vapor away.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We do get her saying, oh, Hulk, sweetie, did something get in your lungs?
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's your big old sweetheart, vapor, sweetie.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I shouldn't bother you, but I like a big and stupid, and no one's bigger, or stupider than you.
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And she also gets, you might say I have an acidic personality Avenger.
35:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoy her dialogue.
35:47
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got great lines.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: In the next issue, we learn they're working for the master of the world, but he ends up thinking of them as a liability.
35:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the old John Bern, Alpha Flight villain for those of you that are familiar with this character.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They end up attacking Luke Cage at his theater.
36:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Vapor fills up his lungs.
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll do nothing sweety.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Can't do nothing with a little vapor in your lungs.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: A couple issues later.
36:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Master of the world's like, you guys got to get out here.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the big plot and your reliability.
36:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they start demanding like we want more pay.
36:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to do us more things if we're going to work for you.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: They put in their final mission before the master turns on them.
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It puts a controlledist on iron fist and then they fight the new heroes for a higher
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're working with the controller, they perfights the white tiger, which what's that tiger going to do?
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the vapor.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFOs get betrayed by the master.
36:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He overloads their tech and they all are unconscious in a Feedback loop her one line I'll get here.
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You should know by now kitty cat your claws don't work on someone You can't touch but oh cannot touch you.
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: She's so she's so so tree
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... she shows up in she hulk uh... by dance lot number six where they uh... she get shrunk down and put in the big house prison and there's a break out so it's she hulk versus a bunch of tiny supervillains they're all like ant man size uh... they they fight vapor trace turning into cyanide but yellow jacket is there and he counters the cyanide
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: with like a countered potion of some kind.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And she ends up getting ignited.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: They're back in prison again, and they get broken out by electros in the big Brian Michael Bendis new Avengers volume.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: How these are all books I worked on.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every single one you're about to talk about.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Do these something familiar?
37:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I had to go check when she first started coming out.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I was there for all these.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember working on that big, like, electro-prison break?
37:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Brian Michael Bendis coming on the, yeah, that was actually, he made, he made, like, my, I remember the Wolverine members of the team.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: That was right after Disassembled, which, and I came on, like, a couple of issues before Disassembled started.
37:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So, wild times, how, how was it working on that book?
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, I mean, that was my crash course in everything of vendors, which was, you know, trying to figure out what was the team before and what is the new team now.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always had and continue to have feelings about Spider-Man on Wolverine being on the team in that I don't like it.
38:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it was a, it was a good intro to those characters for me.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: and then there was that massive group of like 50 supervillains that are all working for like the hood a lot to keep track of as an artist and an editor.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I did a lot of like I will take this giant picture of all the heroes they're all the villains and I would put like paper over and trace out their outlines and number them and then write out who was who I did that a lot for for many large pieces of art.
38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it sounds like my work on the handbooks.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is an era when I was working on the handbooks like I think with one in particular there were some characters I couldn't identify and they ended up checking with handbook people and I wonder if it was you?
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe Jeff Carson ran our team underneath the leadership of Jeff Youngquist.
39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But we were on the trauma plumbery were lying.
39:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we were, I was in frequent contact with all of the Marvel writers and editors during those years of my college years.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a, there's a five issued limited series called Spider-Man Breakout that features the UFOs versus a group of mind control villains.
39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're all part of the big Brian Michael Bendis prison breakout story.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a series where Spider-Man is getting involved in these two rival gangs fighting each other.
39:28
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a woman named Rosalind Bakus, who's like a corrupt guard who's taking bribes.
39:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And apparently, Vector has been working on like a power nullifier.
39:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they can get out of prison, he wants to find this nullifier because it's going to turn all of the UFOs back into their human forms.
39:44
[SPEAKER_01]: They're done, they don't want to do it anymore.
39:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody's, you know, they forget some moments of vulnerability here, where she's like trying to hug her boyfriend and she's like, I'm worried about our relationship, you can't touch me a lot of the time, like, you know, so they're they're excited about this opportunity, but this guard betrays them and there's that they all get broken out of prison and they're trying to like fight over this device and in the end we learn that the device just gets destroyed.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So they all have to stay in their super willing forms.
40:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the story that's happening with Spider-Man getting involved and they're hunting down this woman Rosalind back as.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, on the other team, we've got Crossfire, the controller, Mr.
40:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Fear, the Corruptor, and Mandrel.
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are some of the worst people in the Marvel universe.
40:29
[SPEAKER_01]: All men who like control women's minds, basically.
40:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you a mandrel fan?
40:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a monkey man who controls him and with his pair of bones.
40:39
[SPEAKER_01]: A couple things just to focus on vapor here in prison.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We see that she has been placed in a little tiny containment unit, like as a vapor.
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Think of it like a bug in a cage, which just feels inhumane, but also what are you going to do with a woman who can turn into a vapor at the post?
40:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They end up in solitary confinement before they get broken out.
40:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And now there's all these wars in the streets.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: In her vapor form, an issue 3, and is in an elevator to capture Portland Whitehead who's a money trafficker they've worked with, while she's in the vapor form, his security detail opens fire and a bunch of people end up getting shot like civilians because the bullets pass through her.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you know you can't shoot vapor or chlorine gas or acid fog or whatever else I decide to become and the guards all end up dead here she kills some of them others are killed, but you know the stakes are high.
41:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an issue we she gets to make the corruptor breathe in some poison gas during one of the fights in Issue five vapor attacks the mandrel who's in a house He's the monkey man, and there are like 30 women just all laying on pillows around him and he's like, oh I'm a little my fair mouth and they're like, oh, man, or we love you vapor comes in and she's like Bitch your powers don't work on me.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a vapor
41:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and in the end, when they're contemplating the device, vapor does have some moments where she's like not sure if we should like fix our powers or not.
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I explain this to Jimmy and Mike?
42:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they like being X-ray and ironclad.
42:11
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, I'm worried how much longer can you stay with a woman you can't even touch?
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, I turned you into this.
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: How long before you all hate me for it?
42:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that last bit you noted seems very like a very read Richards of the Mark White era of fantastic for the I will turn you into super heroes because I feel so shit about what I did to you and so yeah that reminds me of that I mean she she cares about her teammates and I think that's just like such a major part of her character and it plays into everything she does and
42:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that about her, that like after all these years, like she still cares.
42:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We jumped a civil war, the superhuman registration act gets passed.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the Thunderbolts book by NECAza, the Thunderbolts form a giant army of super villains who are like agreeing to work for the government for pension, because otherwise they have to go to jail.
43:06
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a fight between the Thunderbolts and the UFOs in Thunderbolts 104, the character Blizzard
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: freezes vapor, and she gets defeated that way, and then they join up with the army.
43:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So we do see her in one appearance in civil war number five.
43:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's it for them there.
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We then jump to She Hulk volume two, 17.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFOs are defeated by the Hulk Busters with vapor being contained in a unit by ancient crimson.
43:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm worried about it, and then they're back in Bendis's Avengers in number 35, where they join up with the hoods army, and then never really do anything there either.
43:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So that kind of wraps up their history until they're more modern stuff.
43:45
[SPEAKER_01]: There's two things.
43:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We have the initiative.
43:47
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where there's a superhero team in every state.
43:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember working on the initiative?
43:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, I loved this era.
43:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was so good.
43:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the...
43:57
[SPEAKER_00]: The number of heroes we had to source like, you know, who's going to go to these places and like, you know, that's where we got the Great Lakes Avengers and like these random heroes are going to this random state and so we could still keep the big heroes in, you know, California or New York.
44:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it was it was a fun time.
44:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It was crazy as the handbook guy and the keeping track of all of that stuff.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you, did you have a hand in creating any of the 50 states teams?
44:21
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not specifically, but I did work on the most of the initiative books.
44:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember being in frequent contact with Christo's gauge during all of this.
44:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was one of the books I was focused on as well.
44:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So then Norman Osborne takes over because of the whole scroll craziness.
44:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it turns all of the 50 states in initiative teams into super villain teams.
44:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So in Avengers the Initiative, we see the Euphos become the National State Superheroes of the State of North Carolina.
44:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a casual idea.
44:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Seesh happens.
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Norman Osborn flexed with a little too hard.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They create an incident where they blow up some shit in Chicago and soldier field.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they have permission to go to war with Asgard.
45:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, you know, anyway.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So in issue 32, they per comments on that whole event at soldier field.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We're highly trained, initiative personnel.
45:11
[SPEAKER_01]: We know how to control our powers.
45:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That has guardian did something.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: The disaster at Soldier Field is why the initiative exists because this is what happens when unlicensed, untrained beings with that kind of power live among us.
45:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But what really happened is the UFO's attacked.
45:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, like Volstag at Soldier Field, they killed a whole bunch of people and then blamed it on him.
45:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's basically...
45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The most evil thing we've seen her do, that like the name of like state sanctioned superpowers.
45:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, then we jump to their most recent one, which is Immortal Halt.
45:40
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the best Immortal Hoke 42 to 46.
45:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, so I just before.
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so I own this entire run.
45:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I
45:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it was probably about halfway through it where I had heard it was really good and so I started buying it in trade paperbacks.
45:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've read the entire run and it's so like big on the body of horror that like I think when they were about like four my children asked if they could look at it and I'm like there is literally not a single page you can see of this book because there is something horrific on every single page.
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, at a certain point, the body horror in the book got really exhausting.
46:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That said, I felt like that this series like nail the ending better than like almost any recent run of comics I've read has.
46:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's it.
46:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So the UFOs are in issue 42 to 46, which is close to the end.
46:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Molly, the follow-up series, if you're reading Philip Kennedy Johnson's Hulk, it's body horror times three.
46:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good luck.
46:38
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm done with it.
46:41
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I just got it kept making me sad because like I liked the Hulk and it was just like, oh, let's rip the Hulk apart.
46:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's burn the Hulk up into into like Smith.
46:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's like, how many ways can we hurt the poor Hulk?
46:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He is sad.
46:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Leave him alone.
46:53
[SPEAKER_00]: He may be very upset.
46:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
46:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right.
46:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the UFOs show up from 42 to 46, which is towards the end of the run here.
47:02
[SPEAKER_00]: In the issue, at the end of 42, Henry Peer, Gyrach, higher as the UFOs to fight the Hulk, and he promises them and the Steve, first off they've done in the past, and he gives them free reign to do anything to take the Hulk down.
47:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So, they practice on Hulk bots up on the alpha flight space station, and Gyrach asks,
47:21
[SPEAKER_00]: a vapor to show how she would quail the scent among protesters supporting the whole.
47:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And she turns into tear gas and it looks pretty awful.
47:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like it would be awful for the people who are affected.
47:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the issue, they face the real hole.
47:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And the cover of I just want to note, the cover to issue 44 is pretty funny.
47:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Jairic is on there.
47:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He's smurking.
47:39
[SPEAKER_00]: He's reading an astounding UFO's comic with the subtitle assault of the whole.
47:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's by Alex Ross and it's pretty great.
47:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Chris O'Holorada's on colors here, and there's something about the way he colors these characters specifically that makes them ten times scarier the final page of 42 that like all of the characters have the light playing off of them.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
48:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so in 44, we start with the U.V.
48:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Those pounding on the hall could he's in a weakened state.
48:17
[SPEAKER_00]: His, like, body's all, like, shrunken and grotesque, but he's still strong.
48:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and Hulk takes out Ironclad again and vapor swirls around the Hulk in this pretty cool image where she's like both flowing into his mouth and devouring him with her own, like her giant head with her huge open mouth is underneath him, but then like her tail.
48:37
[SPEAKER_00]: If you will is like going inside him, and it's like, um,
48:40
[SPEAKER_01]: When Hulk defeats Ironclad, he's like smashing him up.
48:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like grabbing the metal and like smashing it together.
48:47
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like sue reacting to the thing getting crumbled into rocks.
48:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she's horrified and is like, oh my god, I got to kill this guy.
48:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, the way they draw and color her in this makes her so scary.
48:59
[SPEAKER_01]: When she does that mustard gas thing, it's like these wispy panels of her like very creepy, like goblin face with like giant eyes.
49:05
[SPEAKER_01]: She's really frightening to this.
49:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So the crowd who's watching this is like, Oh, well, that's not fair.
49:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It's for on one.
49:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And then vector strips, Hulk's flesh from his body and it's awful.
49:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And then vector sends Hulk flying and the UFOs go find him where he landed and Xray hits him with anti gamma rays, which apparently are the same thing as cosmic rays.
49:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And they kill him and a vapor asks if anyone feels like getting barbecue as Hulk's body is like smoking in the background.
49:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but Hulk gets better as he does in this book, given that it just called the immortal Hulk.
49:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And this time he comes back as the Joe fix it Gray Hulk.
49:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And he breaks Ironclads hand and then eats vector's radiation.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: and ironplats like really messed up.
49:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And Vector tells Vapor to become an antiseptic to help him, but she ignores him.
49:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And she becomes sulfuric acid gas instead.
49:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But hold just like breeze it in and expels it right over the other UFOs.
49:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And but and then that point we should learn at this point.
50:02
[SPEAKER_01]: This man has done this before.
50:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So vapor becomes alkaline in order to neutralize the burns on her teammates and vector punches the whole away.
50:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And towards, at the end, vector, oh, sorry, vapor blames Jirek for the whole mess.
50:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Since his team wasn't ready to come in and collect the whole body the first time they killed him.
50:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Jirek decides she's done with the UFOs and is time to bring in the Avengers.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: This is crazy, and again, the art is gorgeous.
50:26
[SPEAKER_01]: If you did not like this character before you will, that cover you mentioned, there's a lot of bang or uphos covers, actually, if you just look at the cover appearances of these books, but the gyric is reading a comic book called the astounding uphos on one of these covers.
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I fucking love Henry Peter gyric first of all.
50:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's almost like, oh, there's a comic book out there about these characters early in one of their appearances They get called the uncanny who foes and then on this cover.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They're the astounding you foes But I kind of like them as the protagonist in get away Should I go on to the yeah, yeah, yeah, then we jump to the right-arman
50:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, okay.
51:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is more recent.
51:01
[SPEAKER_00]: This is 2021 and I thought this was like a phenomenal use of the UFOs powers.
51:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
51:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is amazing Spiderman 75 and the UFOs are at Empire State University.
51:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we see vapor in this, this was the first time I've seen her drawn not just as a floating head with a vapor trail, like she has a body here.
51:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So Spidey shows up at Cracks a joke about one of the ufos being made of noxious gas, but then it turns out there are two spider men there.
51:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's both Peter Parker and Ben Riley.
51:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Ironclad attacks them and he gets kicked by Ben Riley and knockdown.
51:35
[SPEAKER_00]: The Spider-Man attack all three of the rest of the ufos at once and vapor surrounds the Spider-Man with a radio volatile gas.
51:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And X-ray shoots what I'm assuming are radio waves at them, creating an explosion.
51:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's actually a really cool team up.
51:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And truly after that, the UFOs leave.
51:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And Peter's in pretty bad shape, because Ben had a suit from this corporate, from beyond corporation that protected him from the poison in his gas, but Peter doesn't have that.
52:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So we find out in issue 76 that he has toxicosis and radiation poisoning and at beyond tower Ben Raleigh's employers tell him he has to stop the UFOs, a Colleen Wing and Misty Night show up with some tech that he can use to fight them, including vacuum bearings for vapor and Colleen tells him to get after vapor first because she's the most dangerous.
52:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And Ben asked for Peter's permission to go out a Spider-Man without him.
52:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And Pete tells Ben he's resentful of Ben stealing his life, but he says Ben deserves to be Spider-Man.
52:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he has a seizure and falls into a coma.
52:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And we go back to the UFOs in a building where they're hanging out vapor here's Ben coming, Ben Riley.
52:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And he uses the vacuum bearings to just like tear her apart.
52:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was reading this while my students were doing work at school.
52:48
[SPEAKER_00]: and I like scroll to the next page of the PDF and out loud was like, oh my God, because you actually see like her head getting ripped in half of my students are like, what?
52:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And I turned my computer around to show them.
52:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I just saw this at a comic book.
53:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a good teacher.
53:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So then Ben Riley takes that X-ray and then presumably the rest of the UFOs and Peter Parker spends the next bunch of issues in a coma.
53:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFOs that initial image you mentioned, vapor is like very bucksome.
53:18
[SPEAKER_01]: She almost looks like Megan from Excalibur.
53:20
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like posed and like wrapped in vapor all heroically, which is really interesting.
53:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they appear briefly in Century 2 and 3.
53:29
[SPEAKER_00]: They're being transported in an 18-wheeler.
53:31
[SPEAKER_01]: This is by my buddy Jason Lowe, who's wonderful.
53:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've escaped and they're fighting the Avengers and then the century who is Ryan Topper shows up and we just kind of see the UFOs in the background here and then they get sent back to the raft.
53:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like five different centuries in this and Riantopper's like the evil white guy, the version of them that they all have to team up to defeat later.
53:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So the rich interior world of Andarnal, what are our thoughts on this character's powers and potential?
54:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Where would you like to see her featured?
54:02
[SPEAKER_01]: What fascinates you about her?
54:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was thinking about this, and I was thinking, okay, well, nowhere in here do we mention them actually fighting the fantastic four?
54:10
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be incredibly cool.
54:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's never happened.
54:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Except that Sue Storm could just stop all of them in about two seconds.
54:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think if they were to fight the fantastic four, it would have to be in a situation where Sue is somewhere else.
54:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So she could, so like, because she could just put them all in a force field and it's over.
54:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of my initial thoughts.
54:30
[SPEAKER_01]: We see Ryan North particularly using a lot of power combos with the FF and recent books like, if we use read and Johnny's powers together, or Johnny and Sue's powers together, they're doing like big giant stuff with a lot of their powers and capabilities mixed together.
54:45
[SPEAKER_01]: The U-Fos, we haven't really seen many power causes.
54:49
[SPEAKER_00]: except in that one where they took down spider-man.
54:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
54:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And a little when they're with the Hulk, they're operating much more as an effective team.
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: These four, when working together, are pretty scary.
54:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We also don't see a lot of key relationships for vapor.
55:02
[SPEAKER_01]: We know she's like bonded to her boyfriend and she loves ironclad.
55:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We almost see more affection between her and those two characters than her own brother, which we don't see a lot of her and X-ray interacting.
55:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's partially because ironclad just keeps getting taken out.
55:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I think ironclads the one that people think of first with the UFOs almost and then vapor and then it weirdly I think in my brain vectoring x-ray get kind of interchanged like I have to think about which one is wedge a little bit.
55:30
[SPEAKER_01]: They seem very similar to me but especially if we're using x-ray and vapor's powers together
55:35
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, the Darnel siblings, there's something really interesting about how that could work.
55:40
[SPEAKER_01]: She's yes, and he's radiation, and that's scary.
55:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and then he's vector to propel that, like, there's, there's some really interesting components.
55:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to write these characters as, uh, like, the, the, the feature, right?
55:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like putting them on some sort of team.
55:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They're definitely super villains, but it would
55:58
[SPEAKER_01]: be easy to give vapor for example a redemptive arc as a healer if she chose to go that direction or as a serial killer in the other direction because she's very scary and very capable but I almost want more of her like history.
56:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I want a little bit more thought.
56:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to see a vapor-sustorm team up somehow where they fight and end up kind of understanding each other because they represent a very specific spot on the team and then that like shapeshifting baboon
56:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she's interesting.
56:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she has a lot of potential to be very, very cool.
56:33
[SPEAKER_01]: When I was a kid, we had these Halloween trading cards.
56:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They were called the Nihuala cards, which were like Halloween backwards.
56:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And everyone had like a, like a, like a, a kitchen movie monster on it.
56:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys could look this up if you want to.
56:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see vapor there.
56:46
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of horror energy for this character, but then we have the deeper reality of I can't turn back into my human form and like what am I gonna do with my life?
56:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like her loyalty to her team is almost her top trait and then her quicky dialogue as she really enjoys inflicting torture on the Hulk specifically.
57:04
[SPEAKER_01]: is very interesting.
57:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Those runs with her working for the government, also fascinating to file away in this character's history.
57:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
57:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I like her.
57:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I like her a lot.
57:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, we support women's wrongs on this show.
57:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she has some very interesting potential.
57:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would like to see more of the UFOs because I think maybe it's just like that my comics reading beyond the, you know, years of 2004 to 2008 when I was reading everything beyond those years, like my comics reading is like limited to certain titles.
57:36
[SPEAKER_00]: The when I think of the UFOs, I think of them as kind of like one panel villain to we see for a second and then they get to feed in sense of a raft, but like.
57:43
[SPEAKER_00]: they're so cool.
57:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would love to see them, you know, more in, you know, bigger doing bigger things and being evil and kicking butt.
57:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have it, and they have a couple really effective, very cool appearances where they're very scary.
57:58
[SPEAKER_01]: If you only read one comic, Ron, go look at that immortal Hulk, Ron, like how you always choice to use these characters as fascinating.
58:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can't believe no one has ever written them fighting the fantastic four.
58:08
[SPEAKER_01]: They're the direct parallel
58:10
[SPEAKER_01]: it's crazy to me.
58:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Really interesting thoughts.
58:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I like this character a lot and I love hanging out with you my friend.
58:16
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have any fun of thoughts, I would love to hear them.
58:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Where can people find you?
58:19
[SPEAKER_01]: If they'd like to follow your stuff and anything you want to plug for early May?
58:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing to plug my books are always available on.
58:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I have two books, a novel and a short story collection.
58:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I own them and I've read them.
58:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They're great.
58:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
58:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And they are available on Amazon and on bookshop.org and anywhere ebooks are sold.
58:36
[SPEAKER_00]: People can find me on a blue sky at Molly Laser at blue sky blue sky.
58:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do a vapor in like a really scary
58:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like a gone with the wind era kind of level of like she's just killing people and it's a really odd thing And she gets to use the worst and quippiest dialogue ever because we get a lot of it like you've never been kissed like this before I just I one point I want to write her saying I'm giving you the vapors on to
59:09
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a really, she's really frightening.
59:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Love this character really, really found a lot of fondness for her.
59:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So thanks everybody for listening.
59:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned next week.
59:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you we're going to take you to some surprising places.
59:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Our character next week is going to be the leper queen from the safety and league.
59:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Really horrifying.
59:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Xman, mass murdering villain.
59:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So watch for us next week.
59:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're going to do a Ruby Thursday the week after that and a tattoo from the kiddo mega's gang at the right of Xavier's.
59:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So stay tuned everybody.
59:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Trial of the loss put the end of the month.
59:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Followed the show at Gremel and under score lane and thanks Molly Laser for hanging out with me today.
59:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.