Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 183 - Serendipity, Trust, and the Humanity Behind Every Photograph

Transcript

183 - Serendipity, Trust, and the Humanity Behind Every Photograph · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

• 0:05
  Casey Fatchett: No, no, that's that's not where it goes.
• 0:08
  Unknown: Need it, need it, need it.
• 0:13
  Casey Fatchett: It's okay. I'm sure you'll get it next time.
• 0:15
  Oh, hello there. It's time for the Nerdy Photographer podcast,
• 0:18
  and I'm your host, Casey Fatchett. Welcome to the little
• 0:21
  labor of love that is the show. If you're a first-time listener,
• 0:25
  welcome. You should subscribe so you don't miss any future
• 0:28
  episodes. We've got a lot of great, great guests coming, and
• 0:32
  you do not want to miss out on any of them. If this is not your
• 0:35
  first time listening to the show and you are already subscribed,
• 0:38
  you know what you should do. You should leave a review. Those
• 0:41
  really help, especially for an independent podcast like this
• 0:44
  one. Once you're done, you're free to join us for lots of
• 0:47
  interesting conversations and adventures. Because, in addition
• 0:50
  to giving you interviews with amazing photographers from all
• 0:53
  corners of the globe and providing lots of informative
• 0:55
  and entertaining photography-related information,
• 0:58
  I do go on adventures with the crew of the Starship Fibonacci.
• 1:01
  Right now, I am teaching a photography workshop on Regulus
• 1:04
  Prime. Just running into some communication difficulties.
• 1:12
  Nope, you still need to take the lens cap off. On this episode of
• 1:15
  the Nerdy Photographer podcast, I speak with photographer Arya
• 1:18
  Spey about his incredible career working in more than 40
• 1:21
  countries on everything from street photography to
• 1:23
  presidential portraits and global ad campaigns. We also
• 1:27
  delve into his humanitarian and teaching work as well. All that
• 1:30
  after the break. No, you want to get light into the camera.
• 1:38
  That's why we don't cover the lens.
• 1:47
  Photographers, are you ready to take your editing to the next
• 1:49
  level? Meet On One Photo Raw, a powerful photo editing software
• 1:53
  designed to give you serious creative control without slowing
• 1:56
  down your workflow. Edit your raw photos. Use AI-powered
• 1:59
  tools. Create precise masks, enhance portraits and
• 2:02
  landscapes, and explore powerful effects all in one place. It's
• 2:07
  like having Lightroom and Photoshop mixed into one
• 2:10
  program. Whether you're a professional photographer or
• 2:13
  just getting started, OnOne gives you the tools to bring
• 2:16
  your creative vision to life and spend more time creating the
• 2:19
  images you love. And there's a multitude of ways that you can
• 2:22
  get on one, either as a one-time purchase for less than $100, or
• 2:27
  spend $8 a month for a subscription. Ready to see what
• 2:30
  OnOne PhotoRaw can do for your workflow? Visit
• 2:33
  nerdyphotographer.com/recommends/onone to learn more. That's
• 2:37
  nerdyphotographer.com/recommends/onone to learn more. On one photo raw,
• 2:44
  powerful editing, creative freedom, all in one place.
• 2:54
  Photographers, do you need a new contract template before you
• 2:58
  trust your business to an AI-generated contract? Listen
• 3:01
  up, AI can be a great tool, but it can also make mistakes, leave
• 3:05
  out important details, or generate language that simply
• 3:07
  doesn't fit your photography business or won't hold up in
• 3:10
  court. And when it comes to protecting yourself and your
• 3:12
  clients, those mistakes could be costly. That's why nerdy
• 3:16
  photographer contract templates are designed specifically for
• 3:19
  photographers, from weddings and portraits to events, second
• 3:22
  shooters, associate photographers, you'll find
• 3:24
  templates to help you start with a solid foundation. Don't leave
• 3:28
  your business unprotected with a contract full of AI mistakes.
• 3:31
  Get the photography contract templates you need and spend
• 3:34
  less time worrying and more time doing what you love. Just go to
• 3:37
  nerdyphotographer.com and find the contract templates in our
• 3:41
  store. Nerdy photographer contract templates, because
• 3:44
  protecting your business is nothing to leave to chance.
• 3:52
  Hello, and welcome to the Nerdy Photographer Podcast. I'm your
• 3:56
  host Casey Fatchett. I am here today with photographer Arii
• 3:59
  Espay. Ari, thank you very much for joining us.
• 4:03
  Ari Espay: Oh, thank you, Casey. My honor to be here. Really
• 4:05
  appreciate. Thank you.
• 4:06
  Casey Fatchett: Really is our pleasure. And we're going to
• 4:07
  start off with the dicebreaker 17. What is the best advice
• 4:14
  you've ever received in regards to photography, life, whatever?
• 4:18
  Ari Espay: Ooh, that's that's quite a question. Yeah, I would
• 4:23
  say many simple photography. I've received many from
• 4:28
  generous, generous mentors. I would say, but one that is
• 4:32
  always sticks with me is that photography. If you really want
• 4:36
  to do it, is a job. Is a work. You have to work on it. It's not
• 4:42
  like oh, I'm a photographer. I'm carrying my camera. Tick tick
• 4:44
  tick. You really, really have to work on it. It's like everything
• 4:49
  else. When you want to do it right, you have to push for it.
• 4:52
  So that's one of the biggest ones that I would take it. Not
• 4:55
  taking it like it lightly. You know, it's like something if you
• 4:59
  really. Want to do it? Go, go! You have to keep pushing
• 5:02
  yourself all the time.
• 5:04
  Casey Fatchett: You have to put effort into it.
• 5:06
  Ari Espay: So much. That's why I'm saying it's a job. It's not
• 5:09
  take it. Don't take it lightly. You have to really work on it.
• 5:12
  And I mean, when you are doing the camera, when you are behind
• 5:15
  the camera, work the scenes of your subject, move around
• 5:19
  different angles, different approach. But also when you are
• 5:22
  doing projects, do the research, right? What are you shooting?
• 5:27
  Why you are shooting? Make make that make a statement about
• 5:31
  that. Like what is going on with you? Go for and that you want to
• 5:35
  really shoot that. Do an investigation, a research why
• 5:38
  you want to do it, and what that subject is. At the end of the
• 5:41
  day, you know. You have to be prepared. That's what I'm trying
• 5:44
  to say. Be always prepared.
• 5:46
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, and it's it's the, I mean, I've I've
• 5:48
  interviewed a lot of a lot of photographers, and I would say
• 5:52
  that something that is a pretty common thread through a lot of
• 5:58
  those interviews with very successful people
• 6:26
  Ari Espay: yeah, that's what it is. I mean, do the research in
• 6:29
  advance, the pre research, you know, get an expert almost
• 6:32
  whatever subject you are going to be talking or whatever
• 6:35
  subject you are going to be shooting. You have to almost
• 6:38
  really, really become an expert because you really have to
• 6:41
  understand, you really want to have a really big understanding
• 6:44
  of what you're going to be doing, right? A lot of those
• 6:46
  questions that you are going to have on the field, you want it
• 6:49
  to be resolved in advance. So when you're on the field, you're
• 6:52
  going to be working kind of focused with that vision, right?
• 6:56
  You are going to have with purpose, right there. So I think
• 6:58
  that's a very important part of. I would say any other job. We
• 7:02
  are teaching with my wife. She teach acting for this summer
• 7:07
  program. I was telling you a little bit ago. But the same
• 7:11
  idea goes for them, for the actor. You have to prepare your
• 7:13
  character, and it's the same thing for photography. If you're
• 7:16
  going to work on a project or whatever subject, or even if I'm
• 7:19
  going to do a portrait, I want to know something about that
• 7:22
  person in advance, so maybe I can engage in something, you
• 7:25
  know, or the subject if I'm going to be shooting maybe a
• 7:28
  documentary or a piece or whatever it is. You want to have
• 7:32
  you want to have that knowledge in advance, so you can really
• 7:35
  have an understanding of what is going to be happening with your
• 7:39
  photography and with yourself. Actually, at the same time, I
• 7:42
  think it's important to have a research and knowledge about
• 7:44
  what is going to be happening on the project and itself, but also
• 7:49
  what is the purpose from yourself, right? What is what
• 7:52
  are my own questions about it? Like, how do I want to do this?
• 7:56
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, absolutely. Why? And why?
• 7:57
  Ari Espay: Always why? Why I want to do it, right?
• 8:00
  Casey Fatchett: Why is like the most important question? I think
• 8:03
  there are too many people. I think who don't who just skip
• 8:05
  past that and like don't even don't think about it. They're
• 8:07
  just because I want to take pictures. No, that's not
• 8:10
  Ari Espay: that. That's what it is exactly. Yeah, I understand.
• 8:14
  You want to take pictures? We all want to, right? Go and I
• 8:16
  mean go freely. And I go freely sometimes very very much to go
• 8:20
  freely with no purpose, but also because it's all my-I would
• 8:24
  say-is my own approach to to go outside sometimes to the street
• 8:27
  when I go. Like, okay, no purpose, but I'm looking. I'm
• 8:30
  always observing, you know. But
• 8:33
  Casey Fatchett: we're going to talk about that more in a little
• 8:34
  bit because I want to pick your brain as far as how how you go
• 8:37
  about that. But my first question is like you. First of
• 8:40
  all, you split your time between New York City and Santiago,
• 8:44
  Chile, and you spent 10 years at National Geographic's workshops,
• 8:52
  along with photographers like David Allen Harvey and Casey.
• 8:55
  What's the biggest lesson that from that time period in your
• 9:01
  life that still shapes how you work today.
• 9:06
  Ari Espay: All right, yeah. So there were amazing years we were
• 9:09
  doing. Actually, let me put a little bit of context to it. I,
• 9:13
  I, my my connection to National Geographic is because I won a
• 9:18
  grant from my government until after studying photography as a
• 9:23
  study photographer in Chile. I won a grant. I went to study
• 9:25
  with among with Santa Fe Workshop. Among them, National
• 9:28
  Geographic with David Alan Harvey, Johnny Chave, which was
• 9:31
  the senior editor over there. Then Maya Stever, another
• 9:37
  amazing documentary photographer. And then I went
• 9:39
  back to I went back to Chile. I met with my partner, who's a New
• 9:44
  Yorker, and we started to run the photography workshops for
• 9:47
  National Geographic in New York. And among them, it was David
• 9:51
  Allen Harvey, Ed Casey, Bob Sasha, Ira Blog, and my dear
• 9:55
  friend also Joe Magnelli. So you imagine. That all the time being
• 10:01
  next to these guys, like ah, you know, they are already legends,
• 10:05
  right? They are already legends, and I was very, very lucky to
• 10:08
  be. Some of them become very good friends. We work together
• 10:12
  in different projects, but also become mentors. And one of the
• 10:16
  biggest things that is stays with me, and I think it's
• 10:19
  because of them. They were very, very generous in the way of
• 10:24
  transmitting their passion and love for photography, right? So
• 10:30
  that stays with me. Essentially, what they wanted to do is like,
• 10:32
  okay, I was of course young, younger generation, and they
• 10:35
  wanted to, okay, they were just passing all that knowledge to
• 10:40
  somebody else that he has, they see. I don't know the spark or
• 10:43
  the or the fire or the passion that they always they always
• 10:46
  carry with them, and they were very very generous with me in
• 10:49
  terms of generate and in terms of knowledge, in terms of
• 10:53
  approach, in terms of like hey, teaching right. So one of the
• 10:58
  biggest thing that is, and I would say from them, I learned
• 11:01
  about that that photography is a job. You have to work. You have
• 11:05
  to be prepared, and that for me has been one of the biggest
• 11:08
  advices that we were talking before. I remember one time,
• 11:12
  actually, David Alan Harvey was talking about an anecdote that
• 11:17
  he was presenting a project for National Geographic, and he
• 11:20
  said, Ari, at that moment I was the most expert in this subject
• 11:25
  that I was presenting to National Geographic because they
• 11:28
  were going to ask me questions and I needed to be prepared to
• 11:32
  answer whatever they were going to throw to to at me. So that
• 11:36
  was a biggest, biggest thing, and I would say that was kind of
• 11:39
  like in a job life idea of of advice, but also on the field
• 11:46
  with many of them. I remember Ed Casey always telling me like,
• 11:50
  okay, how you going to be approached to to social
• 11:55
  environments that are hard, like with honesty, with yeah, with
• 11:58
  with respect. You know, always be prepared, and I don't mean
• 12:04
  now be prepared. Know about the subject, being prepared, being
• 12:08
  prepared to react of what the environment is going to be ready
• 12:12
  to to throw to you, and you are ready with the camera to react.
• 12:15
  So always be be observing, be observant. I have a if I might,
• 12:20
  I have a big anecdote. Go ahead. When I was doing the big, sorry,
• 12:25
  when I was studying with actually Maggie Stieber, also
• 12:30
  another national photography and documentary photography, very
• 12:33
  well known, lovely, lovely woman, and I was in her. Sorry,
• 12:39
  I was in her workshop, and they send me to a place to work for a
• 12:45
  week. But they say the first three days, don't shoot
• 12:49
  anything, just walk around, look the light, how it's moving, the
• 12:55
  environment, how it moves, make connection, start to talk with
• 13:00
  people, start to have an understanding, and then you can
• 13:04
  shoot. Of course, those three days I was like, ah, but I want
• 13:07
  to see, I want to photograph everything, right? Because they
• 13:10
  tell you not to. But that was a big lesson, and all these guys
• 13:14
  have it. It's like observe when you are going, observe, observe
• 13:18
  how light develop or how light moves, or the rhythm of that
• 13:23
  life in certain places, to have an understanding, to have a a
• 13:28
  way of anticipate things. Right? Yeah. For me, that was a very
• 13:32
  very key moment.
• 13:58
  Casey Fatchett: I think that's great advice. I mean, it's just
• 14:01
  it also like immediately makes me think like it's you're
• 14:04
  establishing a connection to the environment, like it's just like
• 14:07
  people who go out and shoot landscapes, like they you know
• 14:10
  you have to plan appropriately. I'm going to go out there. I
• 14:14
  know what time the light, like Ansel Adams, he knew when the
• 14:17
  light was going to be good on the mountain on this day,
• 14:20
  whatever, because he was out there doing it, you know, and
• 14:23
  just like constantly researching what I don't know. But like I
• 14:26
  think with people, you're also establishing that connection
• 14:29
  before you bring the camera into it. You had spent
• 14:32
  Ari Espay: that was they would teach to me. That was the lesson
• 14:35
  they would teach to me. Because of course, if you're carrying a
• 14:37
  camera for three days, you are desperate to photograph, right?
• 14:40
  Because you see possibility, you see the potential of something.
• 14:43
  But what was amazing for me was like after that three days,
• 14:47
  everybody knew me. I knew almost everybody, and that was
• 14:50
  serendipity start to happen. They were inviting me to places
• 14:53
  that I couldn't re, that couldn't. I don't know what
• 14:56
  happened, but they were inviting me to go. Hey, come here, get on
• 14:59
  the bus, come with. And I'm like, wow! You get to places
• 15:02
  that sometimes,
• 15:04
  Casey Fatchett: yeah,
• 15:05
  Ari Espay: you have to surrender yourself and say yes. You know,
• 15:08
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, it gives you access to things that you
• 15:10
  normally wouldn't. If you just showed up with a camera and and
• 15:15
  were taking pictures of people, they might feel like a little
• 15:18
  bit more.
• 15:20
  Ari Espay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I would take a step
• 15:21
  back
• 15:22
  Casey Fatchett: and
• 15:23
  Ari Espay: and I would say as you were mentioning it, just the
• 15:25
  connection with people. I mean, you have to create that. You
• 15:29
  have to create that bridge. It's a very important bridge to have
• 15:32
  access. Yes, you can have access, but when you have a
• 15:34
  connection, when you can create a connection, if you are lucky
• 15:37
  enough to have a little bit of of that on your photograph, the
• 15:42
  photograph goes a little deeper. You know, we are not we are
• 15:45
  scratching that surface, and with connection, you go a little
• 15:48
  deeper into that. And I think that that's very very important
• 15:52
  when you have the possibilities.
• 15:54
  Casey Fatchett: Okay, so that brings me to my next question.
• 15:55
  Because in so when you're approaching a scene, what is the
• 16:01
  first thing that sort of grabs your attention? Is it the light?
• 16:05
  Is it something that people are doing? Is it somebody's face?
• 16:11
  What is the thing that like first jumps to you and it's like
• 16:14
  the comment? All of them,
• 16:16
  Ari Espay: all of them, different times, right? All of
• 16:18
  them in different in different circumstances. If you are very
• 16:22
  lucky, all of the three of them are together. You know, you have
• 16:25
  a great light, great subject, a great scene, or whatever. But I,
• 16:29
  I react to whatever is there. I'm always very curious about,
• 16:36
  about. Of course, every photographer will really like
• 16:38
  that beautiful light, right? But I always react to what is my
• 16:42
  background. That was something that ah, you know what? That's
• 16:44
  something that I remember Ed Casey mentioned once of the time
• 16:48
  that he said, "Hey, photographers, photographers, we
• 16:51
  are visual problem solvers. You know, so that was the day with
• 16:56
  me. Like, oh wow, I have to do this. I have to resolve
• 16:59
  problems. I have to. What's going on with my background?
• 17:02
  What's going on here, right? So that that stayed with me, and I
• 17:06
  always and I always think about my backgrounds a lot. I would
• 17:10
  say that I think a lot about my backgrounds. I tend to to
• 17:15
  compose for the background to the foreground. Of course, if I
• 17:18
  have a great light, amazing. Of course, if I have a good scene,
• 17:21
  I'm going to be in the scene shooting that scene as much as
• 17:24
  possible I can, right? But I always think about what my
• 17:28
  background is adding to my photograph, and I attempt to
• 17:31
  build my photograph with the elements from the background to
• 17:34
  the foreground. So I have, I would say, in terms of creating
• 17:40
  that frame-that's one of the things that I think a lot in
• 17:42
  terms of like what my background is adding to my subject and how
• 17:46
  just creating the set for my elements for my subjects.
• 17:50
  Casey Fatchett: I think that's it's really interesting because
• 17:52
  we can talk about like how what the background adds. I think
• 17:55
  that some people don't consider their background and it can
• 17:59
  detract from the photo, because they're not thinking about
• 18:01
  everything, like oh, I've got such a great subject here.
• 18:04
  They're not realizing there's something back there that is
• 18:07
  gonna. My eye is immediately going to go to it. Like my, I
• 18:10
  just keep looking at that thing back. That what is that thing
• 18:12
  back there in the back? And it's taking me entirely out of the
• 18:15
  story you're trying to tell in the foreground of this photo.
• 18:17
  And it's just like, what? What is happening back there? Like
• 18:20
  there's just every and I will tell people when they like show
• 18:23
  me a photo, like what do you think of this? And I'm like,
• 18:25
  yeah, you've got leading lines, but they're not leading to the
• 18:28
  thing that you want them to go to. Like they're going away.
• 18:32
  Yeah, they're going away from what you actually want to draw
• 18:35
  attention to. Those sorts of things. That like I think that
• 18:39
  no, I think great advice is
• 18:41
  Ari Espay: very relevant, and that was one of the things that
• 18:43
  I learned early early in my career about about that. Like,
• 18:48
  take care of that, solve those problems, those visual problems.
• 18:51
  You know, it's amazing to have a great great character in front
• 18:55
  of the camera. But and and and I'm still making that mistake
• 18:58
  sometimes. You know, I'm still making it, you know. Sometimes I
• 19:01
  get so fascinated by the by the character in front of the camera
• 19:04
  that I then I get home, download the picture, and I'm like, "Oh
• 19:08
  fuck!
• 19:09
  Casey Fatchett: It's a you can swear here. It's okay.
• 19:11
  Ari Espay: And I'm like, "Oh no, I made that mistake. What is
• 19:15
  going on the background? How come? You know. But yeah, yeah,
• 19:18
  it's happened. It's happened sometimes. But yeah, I would say
• 19:21
  that that's pretty much one of the approach that I have in
• 19:24
  terms of like when I'm going out to the streets in terms of
• 19:28
  visual how I frame, always looking for of course the the
• 19:31
  light, but that's something that I actually nowadays when I'm
• 19:35
  teaching I tell people a lot because what you were saying
• 19:38
  like we get so so fascinated by the by the subject that we
• 19:42
  forget to look behind.
• 19:44
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, what's happening back there? That's
• 19:45
  also going to be in the photo.
• 19:47
  Ari Espay: It is great, exactly, exactly.
• 19:50
  Casey Fatchett: So I mean, you talked about how that sort of
• 19:53
  like stuck with you, like spending the time ahead of time
• 19:57
  with like like not taking pictures. But like sort of just
• 20:00
  learning the life of the area, like what do you've worked in
• 20:05
  more than 40 countries? How do you, when you don't have time to
• 20:09
  get to know people, how do you build trust with strangers to
• 20:13
  get a really to try to get an honest portrait with them?
• 20:19
  Ari Espay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that. Thank you for that
• 20:22
  question. I think it's a very important one for all all
• 20:24
  photographers out there who say it's always a tricky moment, you
• 20:28
  know. The but one of the biggest things for me is like that. I be
• 20:33
  learning, that I be learning, I keep practicing. Is like when
• 20:37
  you get attracted by somebody, there is something inside you
• 20:40
  that is like wow. You want to photograph that person, and if
• 20:44
  you are honest with the person that you are going to
• 20:47
  photograph, why you are approaching to them, or why you
• 20:51
  why the big sense of curiosity that that that that person
• 20:56
  sparks on you, I think that people is going to feel that
• 20:59
  that you are being honest, that you are being respectful, that
• 21:02
  you want to really photograph them because there is something
• 21:04
  on them that is really, really maybe important for you or
• 21:07
  triggers something from you. You sometimes you don't know exactly
• 21:10
  what the reason is, but there is a reason. So if you are honest
• 21:15
  with that reason with them, I would say people react to that,
• 21:19
  and for me is is is a very very important. I always have to tell
• 21:23
  people when we are talking about it. Now that we are talking
• 21:26
  about it, it's like you know you are with your camera. You have
• 21:30
  the privilege to have your camera and walking around with
• 21:32
  it, and and sometimes you see somebody that you want to
• 21:35
  photograph, but sometimes that person is just dealing with
• 21:39
  life, right? So you don't know exactly who you are going to get
• 21:43
  in front of you at that moment. And at the beginning, I remember
• 21:47
  when I was approaching people and people saying no to me, I
• 21:49
  was like, I was taking everything very personal, right?
• 21:53
  Very like personal. I was like, they they are rejecting me. They
• 21:57
  are rejecting me. And I remember, I remember at the
• 21:59
  beginning, I was always thinking, oh, people, and you
• 22:01
  don't want to bother. Now with the experience, I know it's not
• 22:05
  that personal. It's something that people is dealing with in
• 22:08
  life, right? They are dealing with their own life. So I always
• 22:12
  try to approach as much careful or respectful as possible, but
• 22:18
  without really trying to make them realize that this is a
• 22:21
  genuine or real curiosity about them.
• 22:26
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, because everybody's got a story going on
• 22:29
  that you don't know about, even people that you know. It's it's
• 22:33
  yeah, but that that that I think it's that respect for other
• 22:37
  people. Like you said, like I also still fall into that trap
• 22:40
  of faking it personally, like when somebody says no to
• 22:44
  something. It's just that's just that's just a mental hurdle that
• 22:48
  I still
• 22:49
  Ari Espay: We all carry that sometimes. Yeah, yeah, but
• 22:51
  Casey Fatchett: but it is the like yeah, like my wife has told
• 22:54
  me like you can't take it personally because people make
• 22:58
  their decisions based on a million things that you don't
• 23:01
  know about what was going on in their life. Exactly.
• 23:04
  Ari Espay: You don't know what's going on.
• 23:05
  Casey Fatchett: They didn't hire you. They didn't want you to
• 23:07
  take their picture. Whatever the reason, whatever the thing is,
• 23:10
  they they made their decision based on their life, and you are
• 23:13
  not privy to all of it. And that is, you know
• 23:15
  Ari Espay: I would say, yeah, that's that's what it is. You
• 23:18
  cannot control what they are going to say, but you do can
• 23:22
  control yourself in terms of like, hey, this is honesty.
• 23:25
  Like, hey, this is what is happening. You know, I think
• 23:28
  people can react very well to honesty, and I think they do.
• 23:32
  And I think they do. So if you have a real, genuine approach to
• 23:36
  them, they are going to react to that. So I hope in the most
• 23:39
  positive way. You know.
• 23:41
  Casey Fatchett: So you've photographed like a wide variety
• 23:43
  of people, like people on the street, all over the world,
• 23:47
  presidents, Broadway performers. How do you? How does your
• 23:52
  approach change from a studio session to something that you're
• 23:57
  shooting on the street, kind of in the?
• 24:00
  Ari Espay: Oh yeah. Well, yeah. that's good. I would say when I
• 24:06
  have to photograph, yeah, I was very lucky to photograph
• 24:10
  presidents in Chile and high-profile people here, and
• 24:15
  and when you are going to the studio, there is a formality in
• 24:18
  terms of a certain protocol when you are shooting these kind of
• 24:22
  people, and of course there is always no time, right? So that
• 24:28
  that brings you to a little bit to what we were getting. We were
• 24:31
  talking a little bit ago that it was like you have to be
• 24:33
  prepared, right? For the two minutes that they are going to
• 24:36
  give you, for the three top maximum minutes that they are
• 24:39
  going to give you, so in those circumstances, I'm prepared. The
• 24:43
  the environment is is ready. What I do try to do, and I what
• 24:47
  I feel it's been always working for me in terms of like in terms
• 24:52
  of like making people or the environment or the context of
• 24:55
  the studio very very ease easing people. I try to create a little
• 25:01
  bit of a very intimate environment. Not many people on
• 25:05
  the set. If let's say somebody is retouching faces with makeup,
• 25:10
  I ask them to to leave before I I photograph the other person.
• 25:14
  So I try to minimize the people around, and if it's possible, I
• 25:19
  try to engage in a conversation like what we are doing here. Try
• 25:23
  to find a connection with them. Try to find something that makes
• 25:28
  us, you know, more not president and photographer, more human to
• 25:33
  human. So if I have that click, I'm okay. I'm 100. I'm happy.
• 25:39
  I'm happy with that. If we can have that click, even in one
• 25:42
  minute, whatever, I'm very happy. But of course, as you are
• 25:46
  saying, as you are mentioning, different people allow different
• 25:49
  timings, and of course, different people allow different
• 25:53
  protocols on how to approach to to the to the studio photograph.
• 25:58
  When I'm photographing somebody that I love to photograph in my
• 26:02
  studio, and I have the time. Then it becomes this, the same
• 26:07
  thing that we are having. Casey, a conversation, a conversation,
• 26:10
  a conversation where you share, I share, and that becomes and
• 26:16
  that becomes part. I would say of the no, I would say not
• 26:21
  technique, but I would say it's part of the trying to create an
• 26:25
  ambiance, you know, an intimate ambience. Because I share a lot
• 26:29
  of what they are sharing, also, but I also share a lot of my own
• 26:33
  life dreams, transmaux fears, whatever, you know, trying to
• 26:37
  make it as humans as possible. And for me, that's when I I feel
• 26:40
  more comfortable, and and get I think get a I get better result
• 26:44
  or more honesty in terms of photographs, you know.
• 26:48
  Casey Fatchett: Well, I think that that's sort of embracing
• 26:49
  the humanity of you know of each other. Yeah, the we were talking
• 26:56
  about before, like everybody is going through yeah whatever, but
• 26:59
  it's finding that sort of common ground where we connect, and it
• 27:07
  created the can't remember who said it. the the The most of the
• 27:13
  work of a portrait is done on either side of the camera and
• 27:16
  not in the camera itself. That
• 27:19
  Ari Espay: it's funny that you say because yes, I by experience
• 27:22
  I always hear that, and at some point when in my yeah in my
• 27:25
  youth I was always thinking, oh no, you are you know of course
• 27:29
  yes we are responsible and that we need to get a portrait right.
• 27:32
  Yeah, I was thinking no, I have to get it. Suddenly with
• 27:35
  experience I realized yeah, you have to get it in both end of
• 27:39
  the camera. The photograph happens in both end of the
• 27:41
  camera, right? And that's something that I also try to
• 27:44
  explain nowadays to whoever is going to see it on in front of
• 27:49
  me. I tell them, I depend on you as much as you depend on me in
• 27:54
  this photograph, right? So I think that's a good. I like how
• 27:59
  you put it that way. Like you know, it happened at both
• 28:02
  camera, and that humanity breach becomes a very important one.
• 28:06
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's a if we, and I guess there are times
• 28:12
  when I've heard stories of like famous photographs where people
• 28:15
  are like, oh, they they didn't want to have their picture
• 28:17
  taken, and oh, whatever the stole thing, like, and you can
• 28:19
  see it in the photo. I'm like that. That all come like comes
• 28:22
  across in the picture, and you're. I think the more honest,
• 28:31
  I guess, is the word that we are about our things is like sort of
• 28:35
  gets people to open up, even if you know we have very little
• 28:40
  time with the subject. It's funny because you bring that up,
• 28:43
  and like every time I see Joe McNally, he's always talking
• 28:46
  about like, yeah, I got 30 seconds to take this picture
• 28:48
  with somebody or a minute, and it's just like you don't have
• 28:52
  that much time. But it's just sort of like letting them know
• 28:54
  that they can trust you.
• 28:57
  Ari Espay: That's that's that's a big point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:00
  You have to create an environment where that people
• 29:02
  can feel that they trust you, right? Otherwise, it's hard
• 29:05
  because it's a very vulnerable, I would say, space to be in
• 29:08
  front of the camera. Like I'm already nervous here, but there
• 29:12
  is there is a video camera, and I'm like, ah, very vulnerable in
• 29:16
  terms of like when people sit there. You have to understand
• 29:20
  that and try to create an environment where they can relax
• 29:23
  and feel trust about it, right? I mean, we all work on that or
• 29:27
  work better when we feel trust on somebody else or somebody.
• 29:31
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, and speaking of vulnerability, like
• 29:34
  you have some projects, like the Faces of EB, that work with it.
• 29:42
  Some real, true vulnerability. How do you navigate
• 29:46
  photographing people who were in? I guess the best term is
• 29:51
  fragile circumstances like that, or with with dignity and and and
• 29:56
  and and
• 29:58
  Ari Espay: it's. I would say it's it's part of what. We are
• 30:00
  just talking about we. I create, I create, they create, we create
• 30:08
  an environment we can trust on each other. That's the only way.
• 30:11
  When somebody trusts you, that's the only way that they can open
• 30:15
  the doors to you. If you didn't open the door, that's going to
• 30:18
  be reflected on your photographs, on the camera, the
• 30:21
  environment, everything. So they know, they know that I'm that I
• 30:27
  care about them. I would say that's one of the biggest things
• 30:30
  ever that that they care. That is, this is important for me. As
• 30:33
  is important for them, what they are suffering, their suffering,
• 30:37
  their suffering is very, very important for me too. I care,
• 30:40
  and I take a big, I take a big privilege. No, no privilege. Let
• 30:46
  me use another word. I take a big honor in them to allow me to
• 30:51
  come in, and they can feel that.
• 30:53
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah. So
• 30:54
  Ari Espay: it's it's again we go back again to honesty and trust,
• 30:57
  right? And for me, that's the only way that I've been able to
• 31:00
  do it. They yes, as you are mentioning, it's a very fragile.
• 31:05
  They suffer a skin disease disorder that is create very
• 31:10
  fragile skin to friction, and it gets tears by friction, trauma,
• 31:15
  everything. And there is no there is no cure. So they are in
• 31:21
  a very vulnerable space, and and and the truth is, they open the
• 31:27
  they open their house, they open their moment, they open their
• 31:30
  fragility or vulnerability to somebody that cares about them,
• 31:35
  and it's something that I've been proving to them. You know,
• 31:40
  they do trust me now, you know, because they know they have been
• 31:44
  seeing the world. They, they, I've been, I've been actually
• 31:48
  very lucky in terms of working with one family. That family
• 31:51
  liked experience, and that family tell the other family.
• 31:54
  And I, you know, so nowadays they, they know what I've been
• 31:58
  doing. That I've been doing, and I keep treating the same way.
• 32:01
  With I'm trying to honor them. That's that's the truth. Many
• 32:03
  photographers are going to tell you the same thing when they are
• 32:06
  working on a project. They try to honor the person or the
• 32:08
  people or the subject that they are working. They have to
• 32:11
  present it in the best possible way. You know, not a beautiful
• 32:15
  photograph, but honestly,
• 32:17
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, the the honesty and the that trust is
• 32:20
  like I think that that's one of the things is like the the care,
• 32:25
  Ari Espay: yeah,
• 32:26
  Casey Fatchett: and honesty like helps build that trust. Like if
• 32:28
  people have a pretty good, they can sniff out that if somebody's
• 32:32
  just trying to take advantage of the situation and like yeah
• 32:34
  whatever yeah the people's bullshit meters are generally
• 32:39
  pretty good. So if you come in there, hey, I just want to take
• 32:42
  a picture of you. It's not gonna go over well, but I think that
• 32:48
  it is that whole like that. I'm willing to take the time to make
• 32:52
  sure that you're comfortable with this, and like, yeah, only
• 32:57
  Ari Espay: the time they want, they really want to feel that
• 33:00
  that is important for you also, as as is important for them, so
• 33:05
  you want to go like full in. You want to I I personally go full
• 33:09
  in in that in that I immerse in that experience as much as
• 33:13
  possible, you know. So I think it's very relevant, and I would
• 33:17
  say any any other photographer that does social or documentary
• 33:24
  cover documentary problems or whatever they are doing, they go
• 33:28
  to same approach. This is important for the photographer
• 33:30
  as is important for the person. You know.
• 33:34
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's. I think that it like no matter who
• 33:38
  you're photographing, like that that that care
• 33:51
  Ari Espay: You can see it if you don't care. The photograph is
• 33:54
  going to reflect that for sure. I'm sure. And as you were
• 33:57
  saying, people is going to smell that also. So if you don't care,
• 34:00
  they are going to okay, whatever.
• 34:02
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
• 34:02
  Ari Espay: yeah, yeah.
• 34:04
  Casey Fatchett: So, for you, I'm curious, where is the line
• 34:10
  between bearing witness, honoring someone, and you feel
• 34:18
  where you feel like you're intruding on somebody, and this
• 34:21
  is this is a point where you should not be taking pictures.
• 34:26
  Do you feel that you have ever approached that, or do you feel
• 34:28
  like how do you deal with that sort of like I'm getting into a
• 34:31
  place that is too intimate to share with other people?
• 34:34
  Ari Espay: I would yes, I would I would say it's a very blurred
• 34:40
  line, I would say. But if somebody gives me access access
• 34:44
  to something, I'm going to photograph until they say, "Hey,
• 34:49
  I'm done. I'm here. And you always can sense. I'm. I would
• 34:55
  say with experience, you always can sense that moment when you
• 34:59
  are like. All right, this I'm I'm done. I'm done. I'm done
• 35:03
  here, you know. Oh, the other thing is like as I'm saying,
• 35:06
  it's like people also know when they don't want to be
• 35:09
  photographed, and they are going to tell me and they are going to
• 35:13
  let me know, and I'm absolutely fine with that. So I can I can
• 35:17
  go both way, but generally speaking, I let people to take
• 35:20
  those decisions, because when they give me access, which is
• 35:24
  one of the hardest things to get as a photographer, that somebody
• 35:26
  gives you access, right? Once I have it, I want to, I want to
• 35:31
  take advantage of that access as much as possible. I want to
• 35:34
  photograph as much as possible, right? But so at some point they
• 35:39
  are going to let you know, Harry, thank you so much. And
• 35:42
  they let you know. That's what I think.
• 35:44
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that, like you said, with
• 35:45
  experience you can sense. I've dealt with people who are, you
• 35:49
  know, both with human beings and with people with their pets who
• 35:53
  were like near passing, and we want they wanted some photos of
• 36:00
  last moments together or whatever, but empathy I think is
• 36:04
  another thing that you like in in being sensitive to situation.
• 36:08
  Like yes, they want they want to. They've given me access to
• 36:11
  their life in a very in a time of that is going to be very
• 36:16
  traumatic for them, and I can sense when things have changed.
• 36:19
  Like I can sense the reading the room, like like I was getting
• 36:23
  photos, and like these are very beautiful, touching moments. But
• 36:26
  I sense that something has changed, and I will say to them
• 36:30
  like, and I will look at them, and they'll be like, I think I'm
• 36:32
  good. Would you like me to go? And they'll be like, Oh yes,
• 36:36
  like we didn't know how to tell you, or something like. But like
• 36:38
  most of the time, they say, I was going to say like, I think
• 36:41
  you should go soon, but like yeah, it's that it's just like
• 36:44
  you read the room, like it's the
• 36:47
  Ari Espay: The air change in that place, right? Yes, it's
• 36:50
  something like that. I remember in my in my early times, I
• 36:54
  remember that an anecdote that actually I explained a little
• 36:58
  bit of what it was happening in that room. My grandma was dying,
• 37:02
  and I was becoming a photographer, right? So I wanted
• 37:05
  to photograph that that room, what it was happening, and my
• 37:09
  mom couldn't stand that idea, and she said, "Hari, please put
• 37:13
  this camera away. And that for me was like a early lesson in
• 37:17
  terms of okay, I didn't read the room. I wasn't sensitive enough.
• 37:22
  I was just an experienced photographer. Like I wanted to
• 37:25
  get everything, but she says this is making me very very
• 37:29
  uncomfortable, right? So I was like, oh yeah, sorry, I didn't
• 37:33
  realize that, and that's when you start to get a little bit
• 37:37
  more, as you were saying, with with experience, you start to
• 37:41
  get more sensitive about how to read the room and how is people
• 37:45
  feeling, what they are sensing. Yeah, and nowadays I would say
• 37:49
  is yeah, we we all get older and get more sensitive about about
• 37:54
  it. I would guess. Yes, intimate moment.
• 37:57
  Casey Fatchett: If you hope, I'm sure there are some people who
• 37:58
  don't get more sensitive to it, but you know, like if you if you
• 38:02
  are open to it, like I said, empathy. I always tell people
• 38:05
  that if you're photographing people at all, empathy is a
• 38:08
  really is a superpower, and being able to sense what's going
• 38:14
  on with other people. Yeah,
• 38:16
  Ari Espay: I would say that's yeah, and every and and
• 38:19
  actually, I would say that helps in every in every environment
• 38:23
  that you are photographing, right? Even in the street, like
• 38:25
  okay, sometimes there are streets that okay, you have to
• 38:27
  sense in should I go in or should I back up? Or when you
• 38:32
  meet somebody in the street that you want to photograph, you also
• 38:34
  are sensing all. They are letting you know without telling
• 38:37
  you, right? They are putting some energy out there that okay
• 38:41
  maybe that's it you know you move you back up and and you
• 38:45
  keep going with your life you know
• 38:47
  Casey Fatchett: yeah it's it's the yeah just being sensitive to
• 38:53
  yeah
• 38:53
  Ari Espay: I would say helps I would say helps a lot in an
• 38:56
  environment that you are into yeah with the camera that
• 38:59
  cameras are so powerful in terms of like showing life on of
• 39:04
  everybody else.
• 39:05
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, speaking of helping out, you help out
• 39:12
  through statement arts. You've run workshops in Myanmar and
• 39:18
  Laos. You've donated hundreds of cameras to young and at-risk
• 39:24
  photographers, including activists who are documenting
• 39:29
  human rights abuses, civil wars. What made you want to put
• 39:35
  cameras in the hands of people instead of taking pictures
• 39:41
  yourself,
• 39:47
  Ari Espay: I I always believe always believe that if your
• 39:51
  community is being affected, you have the first row, the front
• 39:56
  row, to deal with those problems or to deal. With those
• 40:01
  sufferings, or to be, you are the principal witness. And if
• 40:04
  you have a camera, you have a point of view that I will not
• 40:07
  have. And I always think that that is a very relevant point of
• 40:11
  view, the one that is being, the person that is being impacted
• 40:15
  by, by those problems or those social problems. I remember as
• 40:18
  you were talking about, yeah, they were having some problems.
• 40:21
  Where I was, I will not get into too much. But they were having
• 40:26
  some human right problems in Myanmar, and and the people that
• 40:30
  it was suffering them, we gave them cameras. We taught them
• 40:35
  photography, so they will be able to, I would say, to develop
• 40:39
  to witness with a camera and to put in visuals what they were
• 40:43
  suffering, right? I I'm not saying that somebody else,
• 40:48
  another photographer, wouldn't done a good job. I'm not saying
• 40:51
  that. I think everybody can agree with that. But what I'm
• 40:56
  saying, I will not. I will never have the point of view that they
• 40:58
  have because they are the real ones that they have been
• 41:01
  impacted by those problems, right? So I think that's always
• 41:04
  a very important point of view to have on the table, and and I
• 41:09
  think that was was that was brought us to bring cameras and
• 41:14
  teach them because also there was the interest, not only that.
• 41:17
  Hey, we brought cameras, you know, they were they had the
• 41:20
  interest of doing that to have a different approach. Maybe not
• 41:25
  writing. Maybe showing showing what it was happening as a
• 41:29
  reality. And at that point, with them having been the witness and
• 41:35
  the people that is being impacted by that point of view,
• 41:39
  become the most relevant. Not the one that I, you know, that I
• 41:43
  can I can bring to the table, but their point of view was the
• 41:46
  most relevant one. There was, and also at the same time, I do
• 41:49
  believe that when you face your own problems or traumas or
• 41:56
  conflicts, also becomes a part of some way along the process,
• 42:01
  some way along the time, it's going to become a little bit
• 42:04
  healing, healing process. You know, so processing
• 42:08
  Casey Fatchett: those, what has happened to you, is easier
• 42:13
  because you're you're you are, I mean, you're literally
• 42:16
  processing the photo. But it's yeah that I think that what
• 42:21
  you're what you're saying about like their eye, like everybody
• 42:24
  has a you know an eye for things, whatever particular
• 42:27
  things. But like the people who are like you were saying
• 42:29
  directly experiencing it are going to see things that you
• 42:34
  don't see. Are going to see things that from a from a
• 42:38
  different they're coming at it from a different angle than
• 42:41
  somebody who's outside of it, and I think that I agree with
• 42:46
  what you said. Like that helps.
• 42:48
  Ari Espay: Yeah, I think I mean I mean as I'm saying, I don't
• 42:51
  think I'm not saying that another photographer is going to
• 42:53
  do a great job. I think we have, of course, we we know great
• 42:58
  photographers doing great job about external issues, but when
• 43:04
  it's affected, when you are affected by something
• 43:07
  specifically, and you can do that one, it also becomes like
• 43:13
  a. I would say it becomes almost like a art project in terms of
• 43:20
  create that same process of you witnessing and facing all those
• 43:26
  fears and problems and social issue becomes also a little bit
• 43:30
  of a way of healing for yourself along the time and not probably
• 43:34
  it's going to be not right away but it's going to help actually
• 43:39
  after I'm convinced with that. I'm convinced with that. So
• 43:43
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, I think that that that also it's part of
• 43:48
  the whatever the case may be, like whatever the social issue
• 43:51
  might be. The group that's actually experiencing the issue
• 43:57
  should have some voice in documenting it. It's not like
• 44:01
  you said, it's not. It's not like outside photographers
• 44:03
  aren't going to take aren't going to take great pictures.
• 44:05
  They are, but there's some like having that voice of the people
• 44:08
  who are actually experiencing it playing a part in the
• 44:12
  documentation of what's
• 44:14
  Ari Espay: It is fundamental though for those that voice that
• 44:17
  become the most important for me the most relevant voice, the
• 44:20
  most important part of it, even though they don't have, maybe
• 44:24
  they don't have the mastery in terms of creating this
• 44:27
  photograph, but is the voice, is the principal voice, I would
• 44:30
  say, that I want to hear, you know, that I want to see and put
• 44:34
  it in in a material as a photograph, just because they
• 44:37
  are affected. That's that's where there is, and they are
• 44:40
  going to. They have a completely different point of view. There
• 44:43
  is nothing to do about it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.
• 44:47
  I'm not saying that it's better or worse. It's just like they
• 44:50
  have a point of view that I'm not going to have.
• 44:53
  Casey Fatchett: Right.
• 44:53
  Ari Espay: That's the truth. Yeah, that's the truth.
• 44:55
  Casey Fatchett: They see it. They see it differently, and
• 44:57
  that's part of why we. That's why there's not just one.
• 45:01
  Photographer in the whole world, like there's so many because we
• 45:04
  all have different voices.
• 45:06
  Ari Espay: Which is great. Which is great. You make it even more
• 45:09
  interesting, you know.
• 45:11
  Casey Fatchett: It's one of those things. Like when people
• 45:12
  ask me, like, who are your favorite photographers? I'm
• 45:14
  like, oh, about what though? Yeah, like it depends on what it
• 45:17
  is. What it is like because you immerse yourself, and there are
• 45:20
  people who take photos that I could like. I'm, you know, my
• 45:25
  friends will be like, "Oh, well, couldn't you do that if you
• 45:28
  really wanted? I'm like, not like them. Like, there's just
• 45:31
  photos that I'm just like, that's that is beyond my
• 45:34
  capabilities. Like, as a as a person, as a person, there's
• 45:38
  just something that they did. Like, one of it, I was thinking
• 45:40
  again of Joe recently because we had those people who climbed up
• 45:43
  to the top of the Empire State Building and were like flying
• 45:47
  their flag and whatever. And I immediately thought of Joe
• 45:50
  because of his like shots, like changing the light bulb. Like I
• 45:53
  could never do that. I could. I my like I don't have a fear of
• 45:58
  heights. I have a fear of falling, and it's just the the
• 46:02
  landing, so that and I've told him like I could not do that.
• 46:08
  Like I just I would not be capable. I would be I would
• 46:11
  freeze. Oh, cool! Yeah, I couldn't imagine just being.
• 46:16
  That's that's there
• 46:16
  Ari Espay: There are so many. I I always said young
• 46:19
  photographers like man, there are so many so many kind of
• 46:22
  photographs. Look what you like. Look what you like, and look
• 46:25
  variety because whatever you look at, photography, read
• 46:29
  books, right? Read, I mean, sorry, look paintings, whatever.
• 46:32
  But look a lot of photography, even that you don't like it,
• 46:35
  just because it's going to feed some way, somehow your own
• 46:39
  photographs, right? Don't look only what you like, right? Let's
• 46:42
  say I'm a street photographer. I don't look mostly of a street
• 46:46
  photographer. I know great photographers that they do a
• 46:49
  street photography or documentary or portrait or
• 46:52
  whatever. But I look abstractions. I love. I look a
• 46:55
  lot of fine art. I look a lot of architectural. You know, maybe
• 46:59
  it's not the one that I do, but I know I look, I look, I look. I
• 47:02
  kind of feed myself with variety. That's what I'm trying
• 47:06
  to say. Variety. There's so much.
• 47:07
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it just adds to everything, and it just
• 47:10
  it goes into this whole whatever the meat, whatever
• 47:15
  Ari Espay: it goes,
• 47:15
  Casey Fatchett: whatever happens behind the eyes. It just the the
• 47:19
  it feeds all that stuff and all gets mixed in and then you, you
• 47:23
  know, it it informs your vision
• 47:25
  Ari Espay: in informs. It never you never know when that
• 47:28
  whatever you saw days or days away or months ago is going to
• 47:32
  trigger something. Yeah. Right. And I think that is very
• 47:35
  important. And and I and I would say I would say I don't know if
• 47:39
  in your case, how do you feel about it? But I feel that we are
• 47:43
  always evolving in terms of being a photographer. And yes, I
• 47:47
  started as a fine art photographer. Imagine, imagine,
• 47:50
  and then I I I saw the street. I learn about the street, and I'm
• 47:55
  like, wow, that's fascinating. The documentary, the portrait.
• 47:58
  So I feel that photography is always evolving, and now my
• 48:02
  subject, or sorry, my mind is thinking about more like things
• 48:06
  that I never thought about it before. So everything is always
• 48:10
  in constant movement, back and forward, back and forward,
• 48:13
  forward and back, whatever. But everything always moving.
• 48:17
  Casey Fatchett: So looking across your work, I mean, like
• 48:23
  as we mentioned, presidential portraits, ad campaigns,
• 48:28
  teaching younger photographers, what do you what do you consider
• 48:32
  the throughline in your work, and and what's something that
• 48:37
  you haven't done that you are determined to make happen.
• 48:44
  Ari Espay: Oh, the through line of a photographer! Wow.
• 48:48
  Casey Fatchett: I mean, I'm for me. I'm just like listening,
• 48:50
  listening to you tell you this. The I'm guessing it's the
• 48:52
  honesty and sort of the care for your subjects.
• 48:56
  Ari Espay: I I would say humanity.
• 48:58
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah.
• 48:58
  Ari Espay: Yes, honesty is the way to approach that. But um, as
• 49:02
  I said two minutes ago, I studied in a photography school
• 49:06
  that it was very fine art oriented. So I became, I came
• 49:12
  out of that school creating kind of beautiful abstraction
• 49:17
  photographs, things like that. When I won the grant and I want
• 49:19
  to study with Mike Stever, David and Harvey, Johnny Chavey was
• 49:25
  the editor of National Graphic. They showed me something that I
• 49:30
  got cultivated right away. Essentially, was like go and
• 49:34
  explore the streets, and for me that was a huge revelation. That
• 49:40
  was like, "Wow, this is kind of you know what happened with
• 49:43
  that. It was like, "Wow, this is how I did. How was I was
• 49:48
  carrying my life when I was a kid? I always was outside
• 49:52
  playing with my friends, going to neighborhood, playing soccer
• 49:56
  in different neighborhoods, in the street, biking everywhere."
• 50:00
  Of course, it's a different generation. Never was in a video
• 50:03
  game, nothing like that. And then I realized, my God, this is
• 50:07
  kind of like I'm photographing almost my life, how it was my
• 50:10
  life. So I went back to it, and it was always that way for me to
• 50:14
  to approach and connect life, walking around, getting lost,
• 50:22
  meeting people, meeting friends-all this when I was a
• 50:24
  kid-and then I realized I was doing the same thing with a
• 50:27
  camera in my hands, and for me that was a huge revelation. And
• 50:31
  that's how I started to connect with people. Of course, you get
• 50:33
  more, you get older, you get more mature, easy to connect
• 50:37
  with people, easy to talk with them, and I was like fascinated
• 50:41
  by that, and I and I would say every time is about people, is
• 50:47
  about people, myself and somebody else, somebody else
• 50:51
  myself. So always trying to interact, and I would say that
• 50:55
  is a thread on whatever I do, on whatever I do in terms of
• 50:58
  photography. In this case that we are talking about, and
• 51:01
  whatever I do is like I'm trying to create that connection with
• 51:04
  somebody, as you were saying. Yes, through honesty, through
• 51:08
  real interest, through real curiosity about somebody else.
• 51:12
  But for me, it's the humanity. It's very hard for me to let me
• 51:16
  put it this way: I admire photographers that do beautiful
• 51:19
  landscape. I I admire I admire abstractions, fine art. I admire
• 51:25
  a great photograph that do architecture, but the but the
• 51:31
  human element in my photograph has to be there. Otherwise, it
• 51:34
  it feels incomplete, right? So I would say that that thread, my
• 51:39
  motivation is is be is always been, and until I discover it,
• 51:45
  it's been humanity, and and I that's how I relate to
• 51:49
  everything now nowadays.
• 51:51
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, yeah. I think that the the humanity for
• 51:56
  me, you're for me. There's there's a anytime I'm working
• 52:01
  with people, anyway, I think it's really about like the the
• 52:06
  emotion and like real the reality of people and their and
• 52:12
  who they are, and similarly finding a way to like let them
• 52:19
  be themselves and show,
• 52:22
  Ari Espay: and you just mentioned emotions. Sorry, and
• 52:25
  you just mentioned emotions. For me, it's it's a lot about that
• 52:28
  that connection that's open up about who we are, right? Who we
• 52:33
  are. We all are in this globe spinning around, right? This
• 52:38
  globe spinning around all over, and for me, that becomes the
• 52:42
  most important part of my daily life. Connect, connect with
• 52:47
  somebody through emotions, through life experience, through
• 52:50
  feelings, through ideas, through art. A lot of that it's involved
• 52:55
  always on my on my one on one. Let me put it that way. When I'm
• 52:59
  approaching to anything right now, so yeah, that's. I think
• 53:04
  it's will be the threat. I think that would be the threat of my
• 53:08
  of how I see it right now, in terms of my photograph. It's
• 53:11
  always people, people, people, people. As I'm saying, if I see
• 53:15
  my one of my photograph without a person, I feel that it's
• 53:18
  naked, that it needs something not to cover it, just I'm
• 53:22
  missing something here, right? That's what it is. That's how I
• 53:24
  feel. That's how I'm approaching right now to to everything.
• 53:34
  Casey Fatchett: Your website is too important to trust to just
• 53:37
  any web host. You need speed to keep your portfolio loading
• 53:42
  quickly, security to help protect your website and
• 53:45
  business, and reliable support when you need help. That's why I
• 53:50
  use SiteGround. After more than 25 years as a professional
• 53:54
  photographer, SiteGround is simply the best web host I've
• 53:59
  ever worked with. Fast hosting helps create a better experience
• 54:03
  for your visitors, increases your SEO, strong security helps
• 54:08
  protect your site, and when you do need assistance, SiteGround
• 54:12
  support team is there to help. If you're ready for better
• 54:17
  hosting for your photography website, visit
• 54:20
  SiteGround.com/go/nerdy. That's SiteGround.com/go/nerdy.
• 54:24
  SiteGround fast, secure, reliable hosting for
• 54:27
  photographers and creative professionals.
• 54:30
  Photographers, do you want to know what your clients are
• 54:34
  really thinking? Surveys can be a powerful tool for growing your
• 54:38
  photography business. Get valuable feedback from clients
• 54:42
  who hired you. Learn why potential clients may have
• 54:45
  chosen someone else, and research the products and
• 54:49
  services your audience wants most. That's where SurveyMonkey
• 54:52
  comes in. Create professional surveys, gather valuable
• 54:56
  insights, and make smarter decisions about the future of
• 55:00
  your business. And the best part, SurveyMonkey offers free
• 55:03
  options to help get you started. Want to learn more? Visit. Get.
• 55:08
  Surveymonkey. Com slash nerdy and start asking the questions
• 55:12
  that can help your photography business grow. That's
• 55:15
  get.surveymonkey.com/nerdy SurveyMonkey because better
• 55:19
  questions lead to better business.
• 55:21
  Hey hey hey! And now for my favorite part of the show,
• 55:27
  what's that say? Useless information. This is always death.
• 55:33
  Now it's time for our useless information for this episode.
• 55:37
  Ari, are you familiar with the term "grind to a halt,
• 55:41
  Ari Espay: grinding to a halt.
• 55:43
  Casey Fatchett: Yes.
• 55:43
  Ari Espay: No, no, no. First time that I hear it. It's the
• 55:46
  first
• 55:46
  Casey Fatchett: First that you're hearing. Okay, so people
• 55:49
  would be like, "Oh, it just like everything ground to a halt.
• 55:52
  Like it just slowed down and it stopped. Like usually people say
• 55:57
  like traffic ground to a halt. Like when it just everything
• 56:00
  stops going slow. Like like it it just slows to the point of
• 56:04
  stopping. Where this phrase comes from is actually very,
• 56:08
  very, very old. Mills, when they used to have a mill,
• 56:11
  Ari Espay: yeah,
• 56:11
  Casey Fatchett: windmill or anything like that, and they
• 56:13
  when they had used water, like a water wheel or anything, to turn
• 56:17
  the mill, they would have a something to divert from the
• 56:21
  stream to like put the water through where the, and
• 56:24
  eventually the miller would close that off at the end of the
• 56:28
  day or when they were done. So the water stops going in there,
• 56:33
  but the wheel keeps turning, and as the wheel slows down,
• 56:39
  Ari Espay: the
• 56:39
  Casey Fatchett: mill grinds to a halt because the friction takes
• 56:43
  over because there's nothing turning it, and that's where the
• 56:46
  term grind to a halt. Ah,
• 56:48
  Ari Espay: look, see, learn something again.
• 56:50
  Casey Fatchett: You learned something today, Ari. This was
• 56:53
  an amazing conversation. Thank you so much.
• 56:57
  Ari Espay: I really appreciate. Thank you.
• 56:58
  Casey Fatchett: Where can people find you?
• 57:01
  Ari Espay: Well, two places you can go to my website actually is
• 57:07
  Ari spyphotography.com or through Instagram Ari and
• 57:12
  underscore Spy my my last name. Also on fancygearstreetboy.com
• 57:17
  where we do photography workshops all over the world
• 57:20
  with people with Joe actually, with Joe, be big friend for all
• 57:24
  the life, and or StatementArts.org, which is our
• 57:28
  nonprofit here in New York City.
• 57:31
  Casey Fatchett: I will, I will include links to all of that in
• 57:34
  the episode notes. So if people want to find those, they can
• 57:37
  just go into the episode notes, click on those. Again, Ari, such
• 57:40
  a pleasure. Thank you for being. No, man,
• 57:42
  Ari Espay: thank you. I really, really appreciate. Thank you for
• 57:45
  the invitation. As I said before, I was really, really
• 57:49
  excited. And any time.
• 57:57
  Casey Fatchett: Welcome back. Many thanks to Ari Espay for
• 58:00
  coming on the show, I hope you enjoyed our conversation. Be
• 58:04
  sure to go to the episode notes to get more information on the
• 58:09
  organizations Ari works with, and so you can follow along with
• 58:14
  him on the socials. Speaking of following along on socials, are
• 58:18
  you following us? You should be. Otherwise, you're missing out on
• 58:23
  the shenanigans. Yep, I said shenanigans. Follow along with
• 58:27
  us on Instagram, Reddit, Threads, Blue Sky, TikTok, all
• 58:32
  those platforms at the nerdy photo. That's at the nerdy
• 58:36
  photo. You'll be glad you did. Great, that's a fantastic shot.
• 58:40
  Let's try taking a photo of something other than me. Okay,
• 58:45
  one more. I'm all right. Okay, I'm only kidding. Not really,
• 58:49
  but be sure to get my good side. Until next time, everybody, stay
• 58:54
  safe and stay nerdy.
• 58:55
  Unknown: Who's your heartbeat beating about? Get better! Get
• 59:03
  better! Get better! Get better! Listen.