Latest / The SME Stream / Reissue: Chlöe Swarbrick on the Green's economic plans and why NZ should consider a tax on the ultra-rich

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Reissue: Chlöe Swarbrick on the Green's economic plans and why NZ should consider a tax on the ultra-rich · The SME Stream

• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Kyota.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Chelsea Daniels here, host of the Front Page. We're taking
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: away breakover summer, but to help build the gap, we're
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: re issuing some of our most significant episodes of twenty
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: twenty five on behalf of the Front Page team. Thanks
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: for listening and we look forward to being back with
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: you On January twelfth, twenty twenty six. Kyota owned Chelsea
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Daniels and This is the Front Page, a daily podcast
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: presented by the New Zealand Herald.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Should the ultra wealthy pay more tax?
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: It's a debate that's continued for decades, even centuries, from
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: ancient Athens to present day. The idea has been a
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: constant when it comes to addressing inequality, yet no government
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: in the last few decades has been brave.
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  Speaker 1: Enough to impose one.
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  Speaker 2: It's a staple of the Green parties prepared posed budget
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  Speaker 2: which promises bold moves to make sure everyone has a
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  Speaker 2: warm home, decent ki and the care and.
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  Speaker 1: Support for a good life.
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  Speaker 2: But who pays and is leaning even more left than
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: center doing wonders for the party's polling. Today on the
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  Speaker 2: Front Page, Green Party co leader Chloe's Swarbrick is with
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  Speaker 2: us to discuss whether it's time for the wealthy to
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  Speaker 2: fund the rest of us. First off, Chloe, your Green's
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: on Tour road show is taking the party's Green budget
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  Speaker 2: directly to communities. What are the most common concerns or
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: questions or stuff raised with you?
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  Speaker 3: People know that the wheels are falling off. You know,
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  Speaker 3: if you diagnose the problem of the world that we're
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: living in today or the country that we're living in today,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: you know, half a million New Zealanders are using food
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: banks every single month, one hundred and ninety one New
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Zealanders or leaving the country every single day, and a
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: pharraicle correctly two thirds of them are between the ages
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: of eighteen to forty five. If Nicola Willis has concerns
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  Speaker 3: about the aging population and the challenges that that may
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  Speaker 3: face in terms of fiscal propositions for us, then we
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: need to actually be having sensible, rational conversations. And that
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  Speaker 3: was just only underscored by the iid's Long Term Insights
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: briefing from a few weeks ago, which told us that
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: the rational conversation in politics isn't if we change the
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: tax system, it's how we change the tax system to
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: make things fairer. But look, you don't need to be
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: an economist to know that things are pretty dire and
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: pretty diabolical out there at the moment, and New Zealanders
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: are feeling it every single day. So I'm also really
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: proud of the fact that we've been going out there
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  Speaker 3: and saying we're not as here to complain in solidarity
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: with those complaints, but also to put some solutions on
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  Speaker 3: the table. So for us, that's looked like obviously free
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: early childhood education, free dentistry, free GPS in the primary
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  Speaker 3: healthcare space, and also helping the transition into a climate
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: resilient economy, because you can't just be talking about climate
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: adaptation without also talking about how we curb our climate
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  Speaker 3: changing emissions. And this government's making some deeply irresponsible and
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: frankly stupid decisions with, for example, the two hundred million
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: dollars that it's decided to invest in new fossil fuel subsidies.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: It's taxpayer money.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the.
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  Speaker 2: Party's promising you mentioned, free early childhood education, free dental care,
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  Speaker 2: free GP visits. I mean, what do you say to
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  Speaker 2: critics who find all of this to be fiscally unrealistic.
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  Speaker 3: I'd say that if we were advocating for or fighting
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: for free compulsory education or free hospitals these days would
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: be called the exact same thing. It'd be called wasteful spending,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: would be called Marxists, and all the rest come at us.
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  Speaker 3: The reality is that we've done really big things in
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  Speaker 3: the past, and the nineteen thirties and forties, after World
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Wars and the Great Depression, we came together as a
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: country and decided to build a nation which looked like
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: the foundations of public healthcare, public education, and public housing.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: And we paid for that responsibly by higher taxes on
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: those who had profited handsomely during a time of hardship
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  Speaker 3: for many. Right now, we're in a situation where the
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: top one percent in this country hold twenty three percent
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  Speaker 3: of all of the country's wealth, and IRD research from
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  Speaker 3: twenty twenty three told us that the top three hundred
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  Speaker 3: eleven households pay an effective tax rate less than half
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  Speaker 3: of that of the average New Zealander.
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  Speaker 1: It's not fair.
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  Speaker 3: And when are we going to be able to have
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  Speaker 3: a rational political debate about how we fix and change
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: these things? I mean, there's a reason that the conservatives
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  Speaker 3: on the other side of the political debate are not
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  Speaker 3: even willing to engage in the terms of this debate.
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  Speaker 3: They simply want to shut it down and that should
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  Speaker 3: tell New Zealanders everything that they need to know. I'd
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: also add that in the government's first hundred days, one
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: of the first things that it did, as quietly as
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: it possibly could, was revoke or appeal the enabling legislation
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  Speaker 3: to require ird to report on the fairness or on
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  Speaker 3: fairness of our tax system.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: One the way there is I think Nobel Peace.
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  Speaker 2: Prize winning economists have recently called for a global tax
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  Speaker 2: on the ultra wretch, arguing that even a modest two
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: percent wealth tax on billionaires stay not even just millionaires billionaires.
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  Speaker 1: Could raise substantial revenue international.
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  Speaker 2: Now, how does the Green parties proposed wealth tax compare
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  Speaker 2: And do you see New Zeraltters having a kind of
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: a leadership role in this global argument at the moment?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we absolutely could be taking leadership position if
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: we want to do. Unfortunately, I think with this current
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: government we're saying far more of a shredder than we
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: are any kind of vision for the nation that we'd
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: want to build. And this is the point that I
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: made in the budget debate. You know, this kind of cut, cut,
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  Speaker 3: cut after callous cut, whether it's in conservation or frontline
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  Speaker 3: of what's necessary for communities or climate resilience or adaptation
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  Speaker 3: or whatever. It's not only cruel and unusual, but it's
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  Speaker 3: not how you build a country, it's how you break one.
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  Speaker 3: And that's where I kind of come back to those
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  Speaker 3: basic economic principles. You know, it's really deeply ironic and
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: profoundly nonsensical for the government to be talking out one
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: side of its mouth about productivity and growth while actively
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: kneecapping precisely those things with its fiscal strategy, where it
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: is pulling back on government investment and the things that
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: drive that productivity and that growth, let alone fear distribute
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: of those things. But to your question on how our
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: tax proposals would work, so we put on the table
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: a proposal for a wealth tax, which would only apply
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: to the top approximate three percent in this country. So
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: for anyone with an individual net wealth over two million dollars,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: so for a couple it's over four million, and that's
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: net wealth, so it's minus obviously your mortgages. Ratherwise, you'd
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  Speaker 3: pay a two point five percent tax above that two
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  Speaker 3: million dollars net wealth individually, and doing that along the
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: suite of other reforms, and using debt sensibly to actually
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: pay for productive investment in our infrastructure, as opposed to
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: the tax cuts of Nicola Willis, which have generated zero
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: jobs and in fact only continued to minimize the opportunity
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: for young New Zealanders. We can build an economy that
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: works for people and planet.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: They are further entrenching a system, mister Speaker, which sees
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: our nurses, our firefighters, our teachers pay an effective tax
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  Speaker 4: rate almost double that of the wealthiest in this country.
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  Speaker 4: And not only is that so deeply un fear and
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  Speaker 4: so deeply inequitable, that it robs us of the very
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  Speaker 4: productivity that they tell us that they care about, it
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  Speaker 4: robs us of the investment that we could be making
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  Speaker 4: and that infrastructure that all.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Of us need.
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  Speaker 4: The fundamental problem with the economy and the tax system
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  Speaker 4: in altero in New Zealand is that we overtax work
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  Speaker 4: and we undertaxt indeed oftentimes do not tax at all wealth.
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  Speaker 2: We're hearing these terms rich ultra riches as a term
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: that I've heard pop up recently as well. How does
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: the Green Party define rich in this context of tax policy,
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  Speaker 2: where do we draw the line for who should pay more?
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  Speaker 1: I mean we we've drawn the line and our proposals
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  Speaker 1: as that termillion dollar figgre termillion dollars individual net wealth
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  Speaker 1: puts in the top three percent in this country.
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  Speaker 3: So I think you're doing pretty all right. And this
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  Speaker 3: is where I think we just kind of need to
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  Speaker 3: come back to these really fundamental points. Right there are
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  Speaker 3: very few people in this country individually afford to pay
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: for the cost of building a school or a hospital,
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: or even closer to home for a loved one's cancer
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: treatment when tragedy befalls us. That is why we pull
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: our resources together and we create this thing called a country,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: because we're not five million random individual people or running
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: around this country doing our own thing. We actually need
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: each other and we can build this infrastructure by working together.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, maybe it's a bit of a
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: red hearing to try and define what we perceive rich
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  Speaker 3: to be, but we've decided to draw the line in
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  Speaker 3: terms of our wealth taxes currently at that two million
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  Speaker 3: dollar net individual wealth.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: What about Nan and Pop who bought say, a villa
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: in Mount Eden for ten of tomatoes in the.
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  Speaker 2: Seventeenes or something, and they're obviously going to be above that.
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  Speaker 1: What happens there.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so in terms of people who are, you know,
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  Speaker 3: asset wealthy but don't necessarily have the cash flow, they
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: would be able to have this eventually paid off in
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: the same way that rates can accumulate against the kind
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: of property to the point that it's sold or the
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: point at which somebody passes on. So we'd have those
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: sameatures and our wealth tacks.
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  Speaker 1: Critics often claim that higher taxes on wealth will drive
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: high net worth individuals to leave the country, and this
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: is probably a few gimes and that's why we simply
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: can't do anything about it.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: No, No, what evidence do we have that something similar
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: wouldn't happen here? Like would there be some kind of
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: brain drain?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I mean we're seeing one at the moment anyway.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the point.
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  Speaker 1: But would we be seeing different individuals leave and we
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: don't mind them leaving, but we want the young people
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: to day It's frankly ludicrous.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Look, I'm not going to pretend that it is easy
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: to change the tax system. Of course it's not. But
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: ease should not be the reason that we do something.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Fairness and equity and the fundamental principles and values that
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: we have as New Zealanders, that is that we care
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: about each other and the planet that we live on
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: should be the driving force behind why we do things,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: and we've done people should and we've done hard things
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: in the past. So I mean, yeah, just a lot
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: of the the arguments that are often floated around. For example, Norway.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: At the top of my head, I think there's approximately
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: two hundred and thirty six thousand millionaires and billionaires in Norway,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: and there are approximately thirty high profile individuals who made
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: a big song and dance about leaving the country as
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: a result of their wealth tax changes, and that resulted
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: in a huge amount of hysteria, but again a drop
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: in the bucket in terms of the reality of it.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: So I think we just need to come back down
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: to earth as far as this debate goes, and ask
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: ourselves why do people want to live here? It shouldn't
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: be a race to the bottom to shred the social
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: safety in there and the infrastructure that all of us
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: ultimately rely on. All the country falls apart and people
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: end up with less social cohesion and we have more
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: people sleeping rough down the bottom of Queen Street outside
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: of luxury stores. The reason that people should want to
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: live here is because of our great quality of life,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: and we are losing that because we are not investing
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: in it.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: What about people? And you've probably heard this one before
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: as well, because I've heard it a few times.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: I've worked hard to get here. I ask anyone, Well, firstly,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I would say the hard working news. Some of the
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: hardest working New Zealanders that I have met are single
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: mothers working multiple jobs, paying double the effective tax rate
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: if the multi multi millionaires and billionaires in this country.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, any politician who wants to claim
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: to be fighting for the hard working New Zealanders should
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: be fighting for those who make their income from work,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: not from near wealth accumulation.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: By the way, I read some critique about the Ears.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So you've got this thing five thousand dollars per passenger
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: private jet tax proposing, and I've read something that's somewhere
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: that said, look, it'll it'll force people to fly commercialism
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: And I actually laughed out loud at that because these
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: people are not like five thousand.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Dollars to me, for instance, I don't know.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: About you, but that's I don't have that just totally
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: will really do you know what I mean? But these
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: people who have private jets, I'm going to say, they
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: will drop that on a lunch kind of same things.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: So little in the multiples of that that it costs
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: they actually use the private jet to get here in
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: the position.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, do you have any data or any
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: idea how many of those private jet passengers are actually
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: coming here every month? Yeah?
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Every year. I believe it's between two hundred and fifty
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: to three hundred, so it's not that many. But again,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: this is about kind of drawing a line in the
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: sand or making a point of principle, because we've seen
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: similar policies applied in other jurisdictions. I just think that
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: it is insane that we are at a point in
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: time where regular people, low income, metal income regular people
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: are trying their best to use reusable straws and reusable cups,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: and billionaires are allowed to set the planet on fire.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: That's kind of the end of it for me.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, Jeff Bezos's wedding the other Oh yeah,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I was keeping a close eye on that guest list,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: thinking like, oh right, you have to see Oprah this. Yeah,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, in New York City recently, attacks the rich
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: message helped Zoran Mumdani to win the.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Democratic mayoral primary.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Do you say this as a sign that public sentiment
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: is shifting globally in favor.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Of wealth taxes.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: I think there's a few things that we can take
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: from Zoran's win. The first, you know, I really applaud
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: the approach that he took post Trump's win. He went
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: into communities within New York and the equivalents of kind
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: of electorates or borrows or whatever they call them over there,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: and he asked people why they had flipped from the
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Democrats to voting for Trump, because that seems to be
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: a question that many of us in commentary land are asking.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: And what he found, strangely enough, was people citing the
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: cost of living and basic economic issues, and they felt
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: as though they had voted for decades and decades, their
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: entire lives for the Democrats to do something about it,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: and they hadn't. So it was kind of a hail Mary,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: something needs to change. So we're just going to grasp
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: for the closest thing that looks like a meaningful transformation
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: or a meaningful change there, and that is why he
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: ended up coming out with such strong fundamental economic policies
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: of how you basically rebuild society, of how you rebuild communities,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: of how you provide people with actual economic freedom, which
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: then results in those social freedoms. So you know, will
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: be completely transparent about the fact that backwhen I was
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: at university, I was enamored by the idea of libertarianism,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: which is actually the ideology encapsulated best by the activity
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: right now, because.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, course it makes sense.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: We'll just get to run around, live our own lives,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: don't interrupt other people doing their own thing. But the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: more that I thought about it and I read a
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: second book, you then start to realize that that social
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: freedom is a losory. It's not real if you don't
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: have access to the material basics to be able to
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: participate in society to survive, let alone to thrive. So
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: that's where he came out, obviously with the kind of
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: tax the rich stuff, but also those basic propositions for
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: free public transport services, for free early childhood. Yeah, I
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: think that what that tells us is in a nutshell
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: tempered centrism which has failed people for decades, for forty decades,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: as they've been subjected to trackle down economics is a
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: breeding ground for effectively right wing radicalism, and the antidote
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: to that is to ensure that everybody has their basic
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: needs met. It's not rocket science.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: On our numbers, the opposition parties Labor, the Greens, Antiparty
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: Malori would be in a position to govern if an
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: election was held today. Let's break the numbers down. National
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: is on thirty point seven points. That's down two point
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: two on our last poll in March. Labor is a
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: head of National sitting on thirty three point two. That's
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: a slight increase of zero point nine. The Greens into
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: Party Maiti are both up. The Greens one point six
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: points to eleven point six while to party Maliti has
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: nudged up zero point five to five point five percentage points.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Well, the Green Party is currently pobbling really well, we
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: can go high the double digits.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Now, which is I mean, this far out from election
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: isn't too bad, all right, and that's ahead of ACT
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: in New Zealand. First, in the recent post fresh Water
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: and urn z read research poles.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Rather, what do you attribute this surge and support to?
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: First thing, I say, I'm always so reticent to provide
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: commentary on poles.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, it feels.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: Like reading the tea leaves and it's kind of like,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: you know, everyone's always like when it's good, Oh yeah,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: it means that we're doing great, and when it's bad,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: we don't actually pay that much attention. That's what internal pole,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: but our and another thing is just my basic experience.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: You know, in Auckland Central in twenty twenty, I was
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: put behind on all the poles, and then of course
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: we ended up making history. Because the real pole is
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: people realizing not to watch the poles, but we are
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: the poles. We have agency and we can actually change
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: things here. But I guess to try and read the
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: tea leaves and the vibes that are out there. The
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: sense that I'm getting from folks across the country is
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: people are much like as we're discussing around Zoruns, when
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: people are looking for what the next iteration of our
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: economic framework looks like. People know that the wheels are
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: falling off of the way that things are currently operating.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: So there's obviously a heck of a lot of frustration.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: And I'm really proud to be co leading a party
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: that is putting genuine solutions on the table. And this
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: is about also understanding the kind of fundamental principles of
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: the Green Party. Two, because it's a moral panic that
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: I get asked about every few months or so where
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: people are like, oh, you're talking about social policies. That's
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: not Green Party stuff. Your name is green, your color
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: is green. So just to give you some insight, the
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: Green Party or Green parties all around the world have
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: the same four core charter principles. What differentiates the Green
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Party in Altered or in New Zealand is a recognition
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: of ten tooth your waiting is our foundational constitutional text.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: From that flows firstly the notion of ecological responsibility. Resources
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: are finite, even those resources that do regenerate need time
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: and space and God forbids and planning Chane Jones in
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: order to regenerate. If you accept that as the first principle,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: that makes you know in terms of the flow on
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: effects for society, it makes sense to go, well, we
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: need to share those resources and a somewhat fair, a
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: just and reasonable and rational way. That's not a social
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: responsibility or social justice on the internet. The third is
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: appropriate decision making we like devolving decision making powers down
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: to the level where it actually affects people. It's why
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: I'm such a massive nerd for local government. And the
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: fourth is non violence. Of course we're happies and we
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: don't like going to war, but if you dig into
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: that a little bit deeper, it's basically about how do
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: you create these systems and settings and blueprints and ways
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: of operating as a country and governance and making decisions
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: that don't neglect people or their perspectives so that further
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: down the track they go, this thing doesn't work for me,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: and I want to uproot the entire thing.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Do you reckon? The Greens have bounced back.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, we're back, baby, But I think I
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: think that you know, my aspirations, our aspirations as a party,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: will not be met until we live in a country
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: where every child is able to live a good life,
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: until our rivers are clean, and you know, our native
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: wildlife is flow perishing. It was utterly mind lying to
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: know to be in a discussion or a debate or
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it the other day with
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: an act Party MP where you know, the proposition of
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: bringing back the more was on the table through genetic engineering,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, cool, like novel whatever, get it. Yep,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: science is awesome, but like we're putting our eggs in
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: the basket of something that literally sounds like Jurassic Park. Meanwhile,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: seventy five percent of our current native wildlife is at
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: risk of extinction. The government is approving in fast tracking
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: coal mines and kiwi habitats and cutting predator free twenty
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: fifty and Department of Conservation funding make it make sense.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I was like, mama's got a lot of meat on.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Look. Finally, if Chris Luckson called you tomorrow, he said, look,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I've had a good look at your green badga not bad,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: but I'll let you pick one thing to implement tomorrow.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: And he's got a genie out of the back, so
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: don't worry about logistics.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: What would you choose?
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think espe the wealth tax as a starting point.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: You know, if we're talking about economic transformation and fairness,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: which is deeply into related to climate justice, then we
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: need tax reform. And regardless of whatever side of the
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: political spectrum that you're on at the moment, as the
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: IID themselves said, and you know they're not politically beholden.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: The sensible, rational, mature political debate at the moment is
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: not if we have tax reform, it's how we do
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: tax reform.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Chloe.
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: at enzid Herald.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Dot co dot MZ.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: who is also our sound engineer.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
• 21:11
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• 21:15
  Speaker 2: behind the headlines.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: The