Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 403: Hill Country Hunting Masterclass with Justin Wright, Joe Elsinger, and Andy May

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Ep. 403: Hill Country Hunting Masterclass with Justin Wright, Joe Elsinger, and Andy May · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number four
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: oh three, and today we're kicking off a new series
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: in which we're diving deep into specific types of habitat
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: with a roundtable of experts. And today that's hill country
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: habitat and we're talking with Andy May, Joe Elsinger, and
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Justin Wright. All Right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: brought to you by on X. Today we're kicking off
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: a new series in this series is all about getting
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: into the nitty gritty details of specific types of habitat
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: across the country. If you were to look across the country,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: you can kind of bucket certain parts of you know,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the deer hunting world. Within these these I guess, for
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: lack of better world categories, you've got hill country, like
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about today. You could say we've got
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: agricultural land. You could say there's big woods habitat, there's swamps,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: there's mountains, there's open country. There's all these different types
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: of ground we might spend our time hunting deer, and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: each one of these different locations and types can be
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: found really in different parts of the country, but each
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: of them requires a different set of ideas and skills
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and information and and even hunting philosophies. And so what
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: we're trying to do over the next I don't know
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: how many weeks it's gonna end up being, but we're
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: going to get a collection of experts on these topics
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: together to talk through all the different things they think
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: about when it comes to these specific kinds of places
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: we hunt. And this was inspired by my buddy Andy May.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: If you listen to the podcast, you know Andy. He's
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: he's one of the very best deer hunters in the country.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I'm convinced of that, and he does it all. D
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I y a lot of public land of private land
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: by permission, and he he is one of these guys
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: who I frequently looked to for inspiration or guidance. And
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: and the interesting thing is that he came to me
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: with this idea saying, hey, man, I am trying to
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: learn more. This is one of the best guys out
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: there in the world, saying I'm trying to learn more.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And the way he was trying to learn more. It
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: was by pulling in these groups of people who he
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: viewed his experts on these topics and picking their brain.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: And so we got to think, and what if we
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: did that, but instead of it just being, you know,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: on a phone by ourselves, what if we share that
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: with everybody out there. What if we share that with
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: all the deer hunters out there that are probably curious
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: about the same thing. So I tasked Andy with coming
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: up with the people he wants to hear from, the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: people that he views as being the most likely to
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: teach him something new about each of these different habitat types.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: And then we set out to schedule these conversations and
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to get these groups of people together where each one
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: of us can share our ideas and then balance ideas
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: off each other, maybe argued from perspectives, maybe agree, maybe not.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Today we're starting that, and today, as I mentioned, it's
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: hill country. We've got Andy kind of leading the discussion.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting in as uh as ah, I don't know,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: steering the bus as we go kind of character. And
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: then we're also joined by Joe al Singer and Justin Wright,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: and I have Andy introduced these guys here in a minute,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: so you can learn more about why he views them
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: as the right expert to talk about Hell Country hunting.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: But I just gotta say, this is a riveting conversation.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I know when this episode is coming out,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: it's January, a lot of us are maybe taking a
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: little time away from deer hunting. But now is the
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: time to learn. Now was the time to be thinking.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Now is the time to be planning for the next
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: hunting season. And I think this conversation, if it does
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: anything like what it did for me, it's gonna give
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: you that kick in the butt to jump right back
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: into it. And uh, I'm pretty excited about that. So
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: with all that out of the way, I will just
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: uh let you get right into it. I hope you
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. And here we go with my conversation with
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Andy May, Joe Elsinger, and Justin right all right with
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: me on the phone. We have got kind of the
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: if you were, if you're if you're a superhero fan,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: you like those Marvel movies, imagine the Avengers of the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: deer hunting world. We've got Andy May, Justin Wright, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Joe Elsinger on the phone with me. I might be
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: you know that character. If you have you've ever seen
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: these movies, Samuel Jackson is the guy that I don't
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: even know what his name is in the movies, but
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: he's just kind of the guy that says, you do this,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: what do you think about this? And then he sits
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: back in the office and lets them all do the fighting.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: That's kind of my role here tonight. So so what
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I wanna do? Um And and rather than do the
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: whole like introduction thing that we do on a lot
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: of podcasts, I don't think I'm gonna do that as
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: normal because there's there's four of us and there's so
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: much good stuff to talk about. UM. I want to
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: begin with you, Andy, because you and I were having
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a conversation the other day, and the conversation is what
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: sparked us doing this podcast, and I'd love to get
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: you to explain that a little bit more. You were saying,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I remember I was pacing back and forth in my
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: living room as we were talking. You're stressing me out
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: so much without you're saying, because you're saying, man, you know,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I just feel like I've never been more frustrated in
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: a hunting season than I was this past year. And
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, Andy, you had one of the
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: most successful hunting seasons like any normal person could ever
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: ask for. You killed three or four really impressive mature
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: white tail box, he killed a giant mule dere and
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: still you were sitting here focusing on how can I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: get better? How can I learn more about this terrain?
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: How could I figure out what to do in this
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: kind of situation or this kind of situation. And you
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: were telling me how you were, you know, reinvigorated and
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: just chomping at the bit to get better, to to
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: talk to more people, to get more ideas, and I
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: it was it was, I don't know what it was.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: It was. It was maybe inspiring or maybe it made
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: me hate you just a little bit more that you
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: were going to get even better than you already hard
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And so what I what I wanted to just can
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: you can you explain like where that? Can you explain
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: your mindset after the season you have had and where
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: you are now that has led you to pulling people
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: like this together to have in depth conversations. How how
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: did you get here? Andy? Why why do you think
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: this way? Well? I think I kind of always I've
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: always had that mindset I know, I've mentioned it in
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts. You know, I think when I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: really think about my goal, you know, my main goals
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: as a deer hunter is UM, I just want to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I would just want to become the best hunter that
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I can be UM. And I always have. I've always
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: had that real strong drive to learn in UM, seek
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: out information from guys that I think are more knowledgeable
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: than me and more skilled than me. UM. This year,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I I'm not I'm I'm not asking anyone to feel
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: sorry for me, but it's just how I feel this year.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I did have some great success I had some phenomenal
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: hunts UM, but I made some really key mistakes on
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: some really big deer this year UM that have really
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: left up a bad taste in my mouth. I take
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I take UH failure pretty hard. I Mean, the successes
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: are great, UM, but when I fail at something that
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I did wrong or that I should have done that
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I could have done, man, those really stick with me.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: And I don't know, I guess it's just the way
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I'm wired. But there was a couple, I don't know,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: just a couple of situations and hunts and and times
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: throughout the season where I just felt real frustrated. UM.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: You know, I had four great hunts, but I hunted
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: more than I ever did this year, and there was
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of time in between those and around those
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: where you know, I felt, I don't know, I felt
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: like I was really struggling and UM just not I
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say lost, but I just felt like I wasn't
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: on top of my game, I guess. And you know,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: none of us are going to be, you know, deadly
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: a percent of the time, but you know, it does
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: get a little frustrating with the majority of your season,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: you feel like that. I haven't felt like that in
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: quite a while. I certainly have moments, but I guess
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I came out of the season, UM, not liking that feeling.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: And you said it best. I just felt, UM, I
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: guess re energized to really really try to improve some
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: of these areas that I feel uh I could improve in,
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  Speaker 1: UM and one of the areas UM that I certainly
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: felt competent in, but I wouldn't say My confidence is
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: the highest. UH is in hill country, UM, and I've
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: been hunting more and more of that. I really like
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: the hills. I feel I'm I feel like I'm maybe
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: a little above average. But I know a couple of
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: guys that I mean, as far as I'm concerned, there
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  Speaker 1: two of the best hill country guys UM in the country.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I'm I know there's guys out there that we don't know.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they're not gonna agree with that, But I mean,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I know deer and I know deer hunting, and I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: don't deer hunters, and these guys are some of the best.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: And they're not only some of the best deer hunters,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: are just some of the best guys. Um. They're consistent,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: they're d i y guys like like me. Um, they
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: hunt a lot of pressured land. UM. I don't know.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I just look up to him. And we're lucky enough
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: to have both those guys on here now. So uh.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: The first guy, Joe L. Singer. UM. A lot of
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: people you know Joe. He's been on a few podcasts.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: He's kind of a legend on the hunting Beast. Um Man.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Joe is just he's just one of those guys that
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: when you hear about his season and the way he hunts, UM,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: it kind of makes you feel like you don't know
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: a whole lot. Um. He's just he his his hunts
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: are very detail oriented. They're almost um they almost that
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: he almost like engineers them in his mind with the
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: way his setups are in the conditions and he takes
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: so many things into account. And I just really admire
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the way he hunts and the way he goes about
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: his hunts because it's a it's a little different than me. Um,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: we have some similarities, but uh, he just he just
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: takes it to a whole new level, I think with
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: his efficiency and I just he's just a guy that
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I've always learned from and I've always I've been fortunate
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: enough to become friends with him and keep in contact
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: with him, and I'm just really thankful for that because
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I've learned a lot from him. Um. The other guy
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: on on the episode today is Justin Wright, who again
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: another hunting beast guy. Um Man probably one of the
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: most deadly guys I know. UM, a straight d I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: y hunter and he just every year, Um, he just
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: kind of leaves me in awe with what he does
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: on such limited time. Both these guys kind of like myself,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: maybe even more so definitely this year. UM. I mean
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: these are family guys. These are guys that you know,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: don't hunt big leases. They don't hunt you know, big
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: family farms. It's a it's a mix of you know,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: pressured private ground and in public and they travel around
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: a different chunks and they're just as deadly as they come,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: and they're super efficient. So they're they're family men first,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: they're good guys first, their humble, but on such limited
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: time they do things that just almost don't seem possible.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: And both of their specialties I think they're probably deadly
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: just about any situation, but both their specialties are our
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: hill country. And I just feel real fortunate to have
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: them on this episode so that we can all kind
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: of dive into their minds a little bit and learn. Um,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: it should be a good one. Yeah, Well, I'm I'm
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: feeling the same way. I'm I'm excited. And these are
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: the three of you are all three folks who all
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of us can learn from me, especially Um. I always
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: feel like with Joe, he's he's of all the different
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe not everyone, but if I can look at a
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: lot of different people's hunting styles and the way they
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: go about things, I see the way that Joe approaches
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: it and his his analytical mindset. It seems very much
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: like what I want to be, like what I what
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I try to get to, but I inevitably fall into
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: these circular, circular arguments with myself that send me down
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: different rabbit holes. And and one not of five times
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I pull it off right. But I feel like every
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: time I get a chance to talk to you, it's
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: going to it's gonna help me get a little bit
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: closer to that goal destination. And and justin, I'm excited
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: that we finally get to talk. Uh, and he has
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: been talking to me about getting you on the podcast
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: for a long time now, so I'm glad it's happening.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: And um, and I'm gonna kind of play, like I mentioned,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of sit in the background a little
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: bit and and maybe kind of play the audience member.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I'll let Andy be the host. I'll let him drive
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: the ship. He'll be the school bus driver, and I'm
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: gonna be the kid in the back sea of the bus,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the kid that's I'm not necessarily gonna be looking out
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the back window waving at all the other cars. But
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I will kind of let you guys have this conversation
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: because I know Andy's wanted to have these talks with
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: you guys in more detail, and I'm gonna listen in
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: and when I'm confused by something, or if I hear
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: something that I think other people might be wondering more about,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: or if you really get my curiosity going, I'll jump in. UM.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: But otherwise I want to kind of be a fly
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: on the wall and just sit here, sit here in
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the circle of legends, and see what we can get into.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: So Andy, let's let's scratch your itch. Where do you
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: want to start? Where? What are you dying to know
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: from these guys to be in this conversation about hill country?
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's just start with something that's kinda
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: pretty basic. UM. This is this is what I do
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: when I'm going into a new piece of hill country.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: When I'm looking at the topo maps, UM, I look
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: for UM ridge systems. I call them dynamic ridge systems.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the right term, but I
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: look for ridge systems that have a lot of terrain features,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of points jutting off in different directions. UM
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: saddles benches. The more terrain and the more dynamic it is,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the better UM. And those are the ridge systems that
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of drawn to. And I tend to stay
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: away from the ones that are more long um less
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: points maybe you know, maybe just off that beIN ridge,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: maybe just one or two you know, secondary points. And
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I guess I've never really been told that that's a
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: good or bad thing, but I wanted to get your
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: guys opinions on that approach, UM, and maybe what if
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: you could dive into what what you look for? If
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you're starting from scratch, you're going to a whole new
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: piece of hill country, and uh, what you look for?
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: So let's start with you, Joe, Yeah, than Sandy. UM.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: First off, thanks Mark for having us back on UM noise.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Let's say that for justin to this should be a
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: good conversation. But yeah, you're you're definitely feel flattered by
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: your your guys descriptions. UM, maybe we can dive into
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: some of the failures I've had this year, because I
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: had some pretty good luck. But I have to admit
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: that when um Andy described this season as you know,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: kind of focusing on what went wrong, I have that
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: similar bank set where I royally screwed up a couple
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of times and and it bugs the economy. So definitely
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: does not go right all the time. Or even most
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: of time for me. So um, but anyway, c civic
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: to this. So yeah, UM, all else being equal, and
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: it really is, uh, the more rugged the ground the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: better in my opinion. It's just you know, the more
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: terrain features you have, the better, um, hill country. UM,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: you know, but you don't get that often you can't
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: you know, UM, you might have really you might be
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: hunting properties that are really steep and rugged rugged, or
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: you might be hunting properties that have just gentle rolling
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: hills that funnel the deer way less aggressively. Um. And
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: then um, you know, and some of the gentle hills
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: you have to deal with. Really the the deer move
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: more according to cover than terrain. Um. There's kind of
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: a there's kind of a point where you know, when
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: it becomes the hill has become so steep that the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: deer have to work going up and down them. That's
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: when the terrain seems to be the dominant um factor
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and how deer move. And then when it's a little flatter,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you a slope, I couldn't tell you
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: an elevation. UM. It's kind of case by case. We
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: should think of it like that, where the flatter hills. UM,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you know, you kind of have to focus more on
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the cover and additions, et cetera. UM, and the steeper
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: stuff transitions can still be important, but terrain becomes the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: driving factor for how they move. UM. So yeah, I
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: like points and saddles and UM, you know crows feet
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: ridges where a whole bunch of points come together. That's
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: one of the key areas that I would focus on.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: You know, when you have a whole bunch of secondary
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: points come together, that's often a really killer area. UM,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: if the cover is reasonably good conducive for you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: betting on those ends of those points. UM. Benches are
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: another thing, and it Benches are a thing that UM,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I think our predecessors long ago kind of realize that
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: wildlife travel on benches and bed on benches. But I
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: don't hear much discussion about benches UM and current hunting community.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: And they're kind of hard to spot on a TAPLE map.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: You know, they're just where the contours gets based out
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: a little bit. On the side hills, you have contours
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that are all stack tight. You know, you show the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: steep slope and makes the base out and make it
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: tight again. Lots of bench, um, and deer bed on
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: them and they travel on them. So the bigger the hills,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: they really like those benches, um, some of the three
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: four hundred foot bluffs that I hunt, and they they
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I really spot those benches and don't seem like you know,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the secrets out now talking about it, but don't seem
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: like very many hunters try to hunt those. The wind
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: can be dicey, but there's ways to you know, um
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: hunts on those benches. So yeah, I guess that's a
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: quick summary of where, um, how how I kind of
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: look at it. Um. They basically similar to you Andy
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: that the more more train features the better usually, Um,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: that really final deer. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, that's what
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I look for now. Um. But my first year hunting Iowa, UM,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I was hunting hill country and I was on a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: ridge that had it was a CRP field on top,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: so they had an opening on the top that was
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: good cover. It probably wouldn't hunt the inside corner, right
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, but this ridge, this ridge was very long, UM,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of points uh coming off of it,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: so it was kind of you know, it lacked a
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: lot of features. But on the end of that long point, um,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: just kind of a long, narrow point without much going on,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: was to this day the biggest typical buck um I've
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: ever seen in Iowa. And it was interesting, you know.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, like now, I don't draw a lot of
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: tension to those types of ridges, uh for some reason.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: But I did see a real big but I didn't
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: see a lot of deer, but I did see a
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: real big buck betted on the end of that. Yeah.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: And length the length of a ridge system. So if
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: you're right hunting other times a year, you know de
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: aren't moving as far. But rot um, those long ridges
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: are megafunnels. You know, deer bucks are running up and down.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So if you've got a ridge that system that's half
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: a mile long or more and you can get in
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: the middle of it, Um, that's even if you're not
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: real close to betting. If it's peak rot and you
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: know you've got decent deer population, you can have you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: just that's one of those things. Going blind, you could
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: have a great hunt. I agree. Um. So the um particularly,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I would say during the rot, you know, outside of
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: the rout, you kind of have to look at more
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: than micro features exactly where they're betting where they're feeding. Yeah, okay,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: hey Justin how about you, Yeah, I mean I would
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: thinking back kind of also what both of you guys said, Um,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I was talking about the long ridges, and I know
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: that's something before I think, you know, you kind of
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: look past those. UM. I have seen a lot of
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: uh there in the ride. I've seen a lot of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: cruising on the side of those, um, you know, kind
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: of going back and forth, uh, checking different doe groups
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and stuff, you know, on the ends of those grid
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: business stuff. So I would agree with that. But for me,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I wrote, I've mainly hunted more rolling hills. Um. I've
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: got into a little bit of this steeper stuff the
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: blow country here in the past few years, and it
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: does seem like kind of what Joe said. It seems
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: like the deer a little more predictable based on like
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the terrain, you know, drain features kind of funnel them
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: a little more. But the rolling hills, for me, it's
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: about diversity. I mean, I have to find diversity, you know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: multiple different uh coverage just coming together. Um, because they
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: really seemed to kind of like Joe said, they really
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: seemed to stick to cover more so than kind of
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the terrain funnel on them. And I'll be honest, I
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: think in the in the rolling kills the winds and suffer,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: they just seem to be a little bit more difficult
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: because of the thermals don't have white and strong plate.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: You know. Is that you in like the secret drink
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: um so me, Yeah, it's diversity. Um. I do have
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: to say, I've seen a lot of I've kicked a
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: lot of bucks. Uff. I kill a lot of bucks
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: in these bowl shaped ridges. These bridges it's like so
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it would be like a ridge like in the shape
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: of the seed, and it has several secondary points that
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: shut down off of it, offering a you know, several
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: different um points to bed on based on the winds
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and stuff. And I have seen a ton of box
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: betting in those. M hmm. That's really one thing that
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I that I really looked for. I just had some
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: really good love to quick with those. Yeah. So yeah,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I mean you guys kind of get on it though,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: you know pretty much pretty much the same. I mean,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you know, saddles and and all. That's the points. Uh,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: you know, that's all things I look for. But probably
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the first thing would be the bull. I don't know,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I've just had a lot of u uh finding bucks
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: better than Yeah, let's uh. I was gonna ask about
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: bowls a little later. But since we're on that and
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: we're talking about bucks betting, UM, let's talk about like
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: we you know, you hear about the leeward side of
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the ridge, you know, on the points and whatnot, and
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and that's really the majority of what you hear about
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: as far as the mature bucks betting, so we know
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: that's one of the features. And now Justin and Joe
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: you're mentioned you know these bowls, and I've seen that
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: as well. Um. I've also seen him down low and
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I've also seen them bed just right at the right
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: at the head of a drainage on a really thick hillside,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: like right at the right where drainage comes to, uh
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: where it dies off at the top there below the
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: ridge top, but at the head of the drainage. So
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: can you guys, Justin, let's start with you. Why don't
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: you go through some of the all the types of
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: features that you have seen mature bucks bet on it
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: besides just points, I've seen them bet download two um
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of times. I don't know if that's more
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: based on so like here, for instance, than the majority
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: of the stuffy hunt. A lot of your access would
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: be from the tops of these bridges. Um. And then
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: guys will you know, they'll go up a certain distance
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and then they'll they'll shut down off this bridge and
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: they'll hunt that. Well. I don't know if it's just
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: you know, if the deer is gonna survive there, they're
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: gonna have to do something to get away from that pressure,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: so they're gonna drop down a little bit lower. Um.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know about actually betting in the bottom, but um,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I have seen them be a lot lower on the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you know, like the points. Uh even I'm talking to
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: ten ft from the bottom, you know. And again this
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: is more so you're rolling hills. Um. I've seen a
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: bed like you said, Andy, I've seen that is ahead
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: of drainage systems. And I have seen them bed on
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: just like a bench on the side, you know, especially
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: in the lake. See that it seems like when the
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: weather's cool and they're trying to get some sun, it
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: all bed on the south basin slopes and getting out
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of the wind. Um Man, I have seen them bed
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: of course on points you know, as the majority of
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the time on the secondary point, Um, is where you'll
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: find them. Mm hmm, yeah. I mean even in the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: open you know, hardwoods, if you've got some blowdowns, three
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: tops and stuff, it looks rather open, but you've got
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit of cover there, and I've seen them
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: bet on that and it could even be up on
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the very top of the ridge even. Um, I've seen
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a bet in a lot of a lot of weird places.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I know that, you know, I think everybody believes and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you know, put for the points, and I would say
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: that's probably where they bed majority of time. But I
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: have I've seen him in a lot of weird and
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: odd places. And I'll jump in real quick and ask
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: you follow up, justin uh, has it been pretty consistent
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that they use those features in relation to a certain
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: wind direction? Like Andy mentioned, typically we'll hear about the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: leeward side of a ridge. Um, how do you think
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: about wind when trying to predict you know, where these
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: bucks might be betted in that kind of terrain? Yes,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and no. Um, so I've seen the majority of the time, guest,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I would say they're betting on, you know, the leeward
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: side based on the wind direction and all that. But
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I have seen them. Like take a pole. Um, that's
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: kind of hard to point, but like take a bowl
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: and say the wind is coming over on like the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: east side of that bowl, and the buck may be
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: betted on, uh, like the eastern side of the you know,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: the other ridge system like as a bowl shaped around
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: on the other side of it. But the wind will
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: kind of come up and go once you get into them.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: A lot of times you still find that the wind
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: is doing something kind of funny. So it would like
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: roll over that one ridge and cause like a swirling
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: effect to where that deer can pretty much I mean
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: anything around him. He's gonna he's gonna catch you. You know,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: he's gonna get a whiff of you at some point there.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: But I have seen a bed on windward float. Um.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not always the wind over the back thing.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes visual uh comes into play. Uh. You know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: so in the winter times and stuff. You know, they
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: like to get in suns, so they'll they'll get wherever
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: they can do that. But I do believe no matter what,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: they have some sort of an advantage. They're not just
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: gonna lay down in the spot that they're vulnerable wind.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think a lot of times like that.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Like I said, on the windward slope, I think the
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: wind a lot of times. If you get right in
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: those beds, you'll start to feel the wind doing some
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: funny things as it swirls around or whatever makes sense.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: So Joe, you do you see some of those same things. Yeah,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: justin hit on a lot of the good points. Um.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I expand on a thing or two that I've seen. Um.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I think, um bucks, as they the lower they bed,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the last a line they are to you know, the
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the theward slopes, um so a pie. Yeah, most of
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the time it seems like they are betting on the
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: leeward side leeward point, um knobs and stuff as they
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: bed down lower. Um. You really seeing break in that correlation. Um.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: And now you see it sometimes and not as often. Um.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: And for reference Herberty reference. You know some people have
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: heard this before. But I run a lot of trick cameras. Um.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not hunting on my cameras. I'm doing it just
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to learn more about deer. So. UM. I leave cameras
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: silk and spots for you know, three or four months,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and then look at that. Look at the observations of
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and correlate them with weather data. UM. You know all
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: that stuff UM, wind, temperature, UM pressure, humidity, UM, cloud cover, UH,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: time of year, all that jazz and UM. I see
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a ton of correlations, and sometimes I don't. I don't
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: see them. You know, the deer move and bed very consistent,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the window high down low, there's less that consistency UM.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And I agree with justin UM. I see bucks that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: and all the time kind of low points or low
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: benches so they can kind of look out across the
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: bottom UM or a bowl. UM. They love betting around
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: those perimeter those bowls UM. And you know that those
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: those are kind of thermal HUB. I think, UH see
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of times you'll see the rubs are scrape
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: and they bucks dropped. They really like to drop down
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: off off their bed down through that bowl and then
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: kind off the other side. UM. I see that a
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: lot and UM. The one thing I would have there
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: is UM. When you're talking bottom, UM, when the bottom
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: gets to a certain size, it seems like that's when
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: bucks start betting down in it. And not just box,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: but those two UM and I don't know, hundred a
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: couple hundred yards apartment yards across UM when deer start
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: feeling more secure and bedding down in that bottom um,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: and I think it's a matter of they don't feel
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: as trapped. It might be a little claustrophobic if it's
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: real tight and constructed, the narrow um bottom, but a
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: bigger bottom then they bed down in that cover and
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: that's when they start treating that like you know, a
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: bigger um, you know, swamp or um, marsh um, even
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: though it might not be marshy or swampy, but they're
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: betting out in that bigger bottom um, So bring out it.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: That's that's when I think I see them actually bet
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: down in there, when it gets a little bigger. You
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: have you have you seen Joe any you both Justin Andrew.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: You both mentioned many different types of spots within a
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: hill country setting that they could be betted. As I'm
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: listening to this, one of the first things I'm wondering is, well,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: how the hell do I figure out what they're using now? Right?
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: They could be there, and they could be there, and
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: they could be here, and if I was walking onto
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: a neat piece of ground, I would just be swimming
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: in all these different ideas. Um. One of the first
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: things I'm thinking if I was trying to filter this
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: down and make sense of it, I would say, okay, well,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: would the time of year change where they'd be betted?
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Do you see any correlation between wan time of the season,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: so early season versus the rut versus late season or
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: anything like that that would give you guidance as to
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: how to pick your most likely betting spots. Is that
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: you know, in the early season, when there's lots of
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: leaf cover, they're more likely to be betted high, and
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: when it's a late season they're more likely better lower.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know, is there anything like that that comes
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: to mind? Yeah, I definitely have. UM. So, you know,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: in hill country, I would say, general rule of thumb,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: majority of deer going to be bettered up high, but
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of like like, it's not a
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: big majority, it's a slight majority. Um. So tiny year
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: is a big thing, and um, within that time of year,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: the biggest factor is, in my opinion, comfort besides hunting
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: pressure and touch hunting pressure, but comfort. Um, late season
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: deer are gonna favor those subtly exposures. Um, they're gonna
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: be I don't know that they're going to be up high,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: but are going to be up high enough so they
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: can get sune. They're not gonna be necessarily down in
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: thick cover unless there's no sun if it's a blizzard.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite times hunt down in the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: bottom when a blizzard rolls through an hill country because
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: all those deer dropped down to the bottom to get
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: out of the wind of the snow. And I have
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: had some crazy good hunts just seeing tons and tons
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: of deer um buck hays and does and in in December,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: you know, like like weird stuff. UM in the middle
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: of a blizzard. You know, UM down wall and early season, UM,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: they it's hot out. They favor of those cool north
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: slopes um or or bottoms where they might be the
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: bottom might be a little tighter um or has water
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: in it and they'll be close water, so cooler down there.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: So UM comforts a big thing. And then hunting pressure
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: there's another big variable, and that has a big impact
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: UM and stead of for but UM when the pressures,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you know, when access is up high, that pushes deer down.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: When access is down low, it pushes deer up. UM.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: It's wherever the hunters UM are. The thickest the deer
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: going to be in the other elevation. Basically, Yeah, that
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: makes sense. Justin would you add anything to to that
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: question about how time of year might impact where they
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: choose to bed. Yeah, absolutely, I think Joe spot on
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: them there. Um. I will say I think Joe hunts,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: and I don't know you can correct me if I'm
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: wrong here, Joe. But I think um in the hunt
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: more rugged terrain up in the hills here, like I said,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: with the rolling hills, um, I will see a bit
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: lower UM, and a lot I think a lot of
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: that is to to you know, access being from the
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: top and stuff. But even in the early season and stuff,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I see him bend down lower UM, and I don't
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: know if it is you know, he dropped down off
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: in there, and it's it's generally it's a lot cooler
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: down there. And the winds in the in the rolling
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: hills will stay I don't want to say stay consistent
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: because they're hard. They were consistent, but you'll fill them
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: down in there. The wind will still be at the back,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you know, even further down it um, because it's more
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: you know, if a gradual slow versus like deep crop UM.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say, I mean, Joe, I would
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I would agree with all that. I do see him
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: bending higher, it seems in the later season, and I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: think that's you know, get up high and gets fun.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Um And on the generally it seems like late season
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: can pretty much for the most part. Anyways, from what
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I see, it seems like they're betting more wind based,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: and I think it's a lot of times to get
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: out of the wind, you know, to block the wind. Yeah,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: but uh yeah, I mean I think he pretty much
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: get on everything. And justin when you say you're you're
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: seeing them that lower, Um, is that like say half
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: way down the hill or yeah, I don't want to down,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I would say a half about halfway down, uh, Joe.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Generally it kind of depends on two you know, where
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the covers at. Um. Even in the early season. Sometimes
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: if it's a you know, a rather open area, it
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: still seems like Bill, you know, they favor the cover.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: So if it the color covers, you know, on the
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: bottom third even I've seen him bed down in there. Um,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: but uh yeah, I would say you know that one third.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: That was one thing that I think a lot of
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: guys around here, you know that was preached a lot
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: um on the Hunt the Beast, uh, and I agree
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: with it in most cases, but I believe that you know,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: on the rolling hills there's exceptions to that and there,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: but they're just kind of bed. I mean, if you
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: get a stronger win day or bed and lower light
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: variable winds, think like they do that a little bit higher. Um,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: if there's so many variables those situations on with that. Uh,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I wanna circle back around to the bulls
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: real quick because, uh, justin you and I had this conversation.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: You told me that you see some of your your biggest,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: most mature deer bed in those bowls, and they seem
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: almost bulletproof. And I after you said that, I started
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: thinking back because most of my hill country has been
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: in Ohio, Iowa, and a little bit in Indiana and
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: then in Kentucky. And there was an early season several
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: years ago where Um, I was hunting a pretty nice
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: buck and he was betted in that same type of
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: train feature like a bowl, and I couldn't get in
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: there without getting busted because I just could not get
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: a consistent wind. And I got I went in there
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: twice and got busted twice. But Joe, you I asked
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: you about that, and you have found uh unique Uh
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: circumstance are a set of conditions that you feel like
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: you can hunt that effectively. Yeah, um, some of the time.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: And then I'll conclude this with a story about how
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: it didn't work this year on me. But uh, yeah,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: so I see that too, and I think it's because
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: of the popularity, um, the spreading popularity of you know,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: hill country hunting, and people focus on leeward slope, the
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: military crest, the classic places where dear do move. But
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: once the pressure is on up on the ridges, then
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: you know, like I've said, I've seen that push down
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: lower and the justice point. You know, I would stress
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: to everybody listening, you know, think about how steep your
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: hills are and if they're more role versus steep enough
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that a deer doesn't want to travel up and down
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it very easily. Um, you know, that really changes how
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: they use it. And if they can bed you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the entire slope versus they could you know, only top
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and bottom it's so steep, that's that's a big difference. Um.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: So down in those bowls, um, I have found there's
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: two kind of two circumstances UM, that I found consistent
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: WHIM and I'm I'm a fanatic about this. Like in
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: the off season, I'm carrying milk weed with me scouting
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: and sometimes if I like, I don't carry all the time,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: but I'll carry a couple of sticks and I'll try
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: to get up in a tree and I'll drop milk weed,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: like in the spring, UM and just see what it does. UM.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And I'll take note of those weather conditions and you know,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: try to figure out if I can have a consistent
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: air current down low. So I've done a lot of
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: experimenting UM. And I like situations where there's almost no
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: whin and so the predominant activities just thermals um. That's
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: a little tricky because of course you've got a thermal switch. UM.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: But say even like a cool, overcast day, you don't
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: have much for rising thermals um, and the thermal switch
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: might be happening pretty early in the afternoon or late
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: in the morning, UM, and you can get like a
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: consistent I really like those consistent down draft you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: early in the morning and down at night. And I
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: set up right next to usually a big bowl. It
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: usually it's got a ditch or something. And if I
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: set up right next to that ditch, that's getting pulled
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: down into the ditch fairly fairly well, um, and you
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: can have a safe hunt that way, um. And the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: other circumstances. The opposite is a screaming wind over the
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: hill over top, and this is usually for those deeper
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: hills and um, this is something I don't know. It
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: might be my favorite tactic. Get a screaming wind wind
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: over a ridge, coming across the ridge and you're you're
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: on the leeward side, except I'm way down at the
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: bottom of the leeward side um, or wherever the deer
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: are down low um, and the air is getting pulled
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: back up that leeward side. So it's actually, um, it's
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: a vacuum effect. That's what's causing it. It's not a
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: rising therminal. It's a vacuum effect. Um. And if I
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: get a twenty plus nine hour sustained wind over the ridge,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: I know I'm going to usually have a consistent updraft. UM.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: The Turkey thing there is wind dies down a lot
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: of time. You know, first light, last light, there's a
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: big buck around that's bag because then it starts to
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: get swirling, but if you have that consistent wind. I've
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: had situations where I have a consistent updraft and I'm
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: dropping milkweed and it's going right over my head all
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: the time. Like it's impossible for a deer smell on
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: me unless it's fly it, you know. Um. And I
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: love those situations because deer they think they're in this
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: bulletproof situation down low where they're used to smell and everything,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: and I can get in there. Um. And I've killed
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: a couple of big bucks doing that. UM, So you
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: know that sounds all good and it works. I've got proof.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: But this year I was after a big old buck, um,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: big nine point typical split T two's and uh um
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: he loved a bed on a low low benches around
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: this big bowl. Uh, real rugged terrain. Um, and he
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: loved to bed down there. Well, the bulls was kind
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: of oriented northwest southeast, so with the northwest wind, uh,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: it was kind of I was going for a light
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: northwest wind and a falling thermal. Those were aligned going
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: down into the bowl. And UM, I set up right
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: by the ditch. Um. He'd been there last year. This
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: is the circumstances there. Last year, I checked my camera.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Once I knew he was on camera. Um, I knew
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: he was around this, he was alive. I figured he's
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: done in the same spot. He was six years old
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: this year, I estimated, and mid October. Um it was
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: the second week October, I think, um my first or
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: second out of the season. Um, and I set up
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: got it. I snuck in there, up the ditch, called
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: up a tree, perfect and that while the old deer
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: he just dropped down into the bowl. And he dropped
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: down into the ditch, which I never thought he would,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: about six yards down wind and I saw him, you know,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and then he he he was down wind to me,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: but he was up on the rim of the ditch,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: and I did not think he couldn't smell me. My
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: son was getting pulled down into this ditch. The ditch
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: was fairly big. It was probably thirty feet across. And
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: they dropped down to the ditch and boom, up came
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: his head and that was that, you know. So he
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: was murdered. Me. Now I had the last laugh because
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: I put my brother down there a few weeks later,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: and not in exacts up but nearby, and um he
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: killed him in early November. UM, so he's dead, but um,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: you know it was it's turkey. Hunting low is turkey.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Hunting hills in general's turkey with their currents. The hunting
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: low is really a turkey, So be prepared to screw up. Definitely. Yeah,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: justin have you ever have you ever attempted, uh anything
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: or found a way to successfully hunt those those balls, well,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: like in the rolling hills and stuff. I understand what
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Joe's saying, and I can see that in the steeper train. Um,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: and it may still you may still get that instant
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: situations with you know, the more gently rolling hills, but
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: from my experience, it's just really hard to get any
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: kind of a consistent wind in there. Um. I did
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: find kind of a unique situation a few years ago,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: and uh it actually ended up being the biggest buck
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: after put an arrow through. Um. What this situation was,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: there was a couple of guys that had found some
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: find down on this bolt and they were they basically
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: set up camp. They put a ladder stand down on
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: the bottom, They put a uh hanging on on the
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: side of this bridge, and I found it that the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: spring before that. I went in there to check it out,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: you know, because I do a lot of kind of
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: in season scouting check in areas, and I'm looking for
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: first sign in and around the perimeters of these bed
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: in areas. But I knew that buck was in there.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: It was a great bed in area. Um. And once
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I've seen all that sign I've seen these ribbons and everything,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: I just kind of my billo. Well, then fast forward
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: to that following spring, I went back in there and
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: noticed the sign there. The buck was back in there.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: You see, the bed was being used. So the following
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: year I was waiting for So let's see how this
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: It's set up like the head of the bowl, so
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a C shaped, you know bowl. The
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: head of the bowl would have been facing to the west. Um.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: The buck was betting kind of on the southern side
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: of the slope. But when coming over his back and
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I waited on a day it was eighty five degrees
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: it was early October, and the wind was blowing out
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of the southwest. Well, it was blowing kind of over
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: the head of this pole and then down into the bowl,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: blowing kind of with it out toward the mouth of it.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And I set up on basically on the mouth of
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: this bole as this buck dropped down off this point.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: He was swinging around, slinging down lower that bowl because
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: there was still stand in there, and accountdent that deer
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: was checking that area out. For one, I think most
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: of the time to see him in the early season,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: it was rather thick down in there, so I think
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: he would just safely drop down off this while I
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: was set up on the northern side. And as he
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: swung around got a whip, everything was clear and nobody
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: was down on the bottom. He carried on about his
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: white and he come on up, got an here on.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Most of the time on the bowls, for me, I
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: have to find either how they're entering or exiting the
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: bowl in order to get another And a lot of times,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, it has to be like on the
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: front or something like that. It seems like these big
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: old deers they just dropped down off and then things
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: and they kind of hang up in there in the
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: evenings and me and by the time they make it
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: out of them, you're not getting a shot at it,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: or they dip into them, you know, way too early
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: in the morning. Um, I will say, if you can find,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: if you know how that deer's entering that and you
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: can manipulate the wind, you know, get blowing or get
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: just down, you know, to where your thermals will be falling,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: dropping one further off to where he can't get it.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I've had my poet more times
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: than I've been successful in the balls. I'll say that,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: m justin, you're um most of the time when you're
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: seeing a buck bedded around the side of a bowl,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: are you seeing it? Use them like that? It sounds
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: like you are, Like when they get up, they're dropping
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: down in you know, whether they're going across or at
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: least you know so they you that's why they're there, right,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: And like you said earlier, a lot of times down
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: in those bottoms, or at least from my experience, I
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: find a lot of sign a lot of scrapes, a
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: lot of rubs, and that's what drew the attention to
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: those guys camped down. Yeah, they set up right over
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: this stuff in that you know, obviously it's betting up
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: on that side and you can watch that or hear
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: them or whateverthing. So yeah, but yeah, I see the
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: same thing justin you mentioned Sorry, any I'll jump in
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: really quick. You had mentioned that one of the better
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: ways you've found to actually hunt those spots is to
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: find where they're entering and exiting the bowl, because that's
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit safer for you, Um, for someone listening
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: who doesn't exactly know how to pinpoint that entrance or exit.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Could you describe what it is you're looking for to
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: help you determine that, Yeah, this is how they're getting
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: in and out the times saddles, To be quite honest
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: with you, Um, if there's a slight little saddle that
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: kind of dips off into that bowl, Gosh, a lot
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: of times if that there is going to cross that
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: in daylight hours, it's gonna be through something that something
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: where um, you know he's safe and secure, not gonna
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: be skyline. Um. And then a lot of times too,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: you know there's there may not be signed right on
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: top of the ridge as far as like a rub
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: or a scrape or something like that, but you can
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: generally find sign kind of leading in or out of
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: those bowls, you know, on the ridge there. Um. But yeah,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I be honestly, a lot of them I've seen dip
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: through staddles, and it may not be a big obvious
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: sattle that shows up on a Topo map. Sometimes you
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: just have to get out there and and gout it
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: and you'll just see a a slight little dip in
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: the in the ridge there, and that's where that will
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: dip through. Yea. From my own it's someone one of
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: my favorite. Uh, Like, saddles are important, but the bigger
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: ones to attract hunters pretty easily. So, like you mentioned
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: the ones when you find one that might drop you know,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: five ft or tennessee from the ridge. Yeah, you can't
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: see it on a TAPO until you're walking through it
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, you know, only my head sticking out,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: you know along the ridge. Those are those can be lethal. Yeah. Yeah,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: So that the hunt example that you just gave justin
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: reminded me of something. Um, those guys were kind of
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: set up in the bottom there where where there was
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: some sign down there. And I remember seeing that you
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: sent me that map at Topo, which was really cool
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: to see how that hunt and folded by the way,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: but I remember the it was that, I remember it too. Yeah, yeah,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: that bottom was relatively tight, um, and I know I
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: remember you know on the beast, you know, the consensus is,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: you know, don't hunt the bottoms, stay out of the bottoms,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: and it was it was ironic because every time I
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: read that, or when I was reading that, there was
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: actually um a spot in Iowa that UM I had
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: killed two bucks um two years or two times that
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: I hunted it in a row when I drew the tag,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: and then my my buddy killed one out of the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: same stand as a couple of trees over but same area.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: And it was in the bottom. But what was unique
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: about this bottom and Joe, you touched about on this
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: a little bit ago, but it was it was a
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: wide bottom um. So what I loved about this spot
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: was um it was where several points dropped down into
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: the same direction. So there was like four or five
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: points that were kind of all pointed down into this bottom,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: pointed in the general same area point of this general
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: same direction, and at the bottom was actually like a
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: like an overgrown like set aside field. And I would
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: hunt that that bottom ran east and west, so anytime
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I had a west wind, I could get basically where
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: all those points dumped down and converge. There was a
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: lot of travel coming up and down those points and
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: criss crossing, and I would get right at the bottom
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: where all those travel routes converged with that west wind,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: but I would be just on the east side of
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: where most of the criss crossing was going. And man,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: it was like, honestly, it literally would be like one
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: sit and and I'm not super picky, like you know,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I'm coming from Michigan. It's an out of state trip back.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Then I would have two or three days to hunt.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: So I was shooting the first, you know, good buck
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: that came by. But it was every time I had
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: that wind, and it was in November. Man, the amount
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: of deer I saw in bucks I saw cruising down
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: through that area and I don't remember ever getting really
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: busted as long as I had that consistent wind. But um,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I mean it was it was quick, you know. I mean,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna wait for a five six year old buck,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: you know, a hundred fifty sixty inches or something might
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: be a different story. But I was able to get
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: an arrow in a good buck really quickly in that
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: type of scenario. You have, you guys, ever found anything
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: like that? Yeah, I got the first question for you, Andy,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: where the bucks moving in like that? You've seen down
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: there moving consistently, you know, with that wind like where
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: they're using in a confiscent way or they move in
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: a consistent direction. Did you find her? Well, it just
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: seemed like, honestly, it was it was always in that
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: kind of November or through the ninth time frame. It's
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: just seemed like a lot of cruising going on. To
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: be honest with you, it looked like they were kind
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: of more doing like point A to point B, but
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: they were using these points as travel routes and they
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: were crossing that bottom um kind of and that you
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: know there there was like probably a seventy five yard
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: radius where all those those ridges dumped down are those
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: points dumped down, And there was tons and tons of
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: buck signed right there in the bottom straps all around
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: the edge. It was a set aside field and there
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: was a lot of young uh you know, young tree
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: drowth down there, like sapling sized trees, and it was
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: just shredded. I mean, it had everything you'd want as
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: far as his buck signed um, I mean, dose would
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: come down off and there'd be you know, bucks following
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: the dough. It was just a constant action. It was
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: just one of those spots that was just dynamite. But
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: I always remember that because everybody was staying, never hunt
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: the bottoms. But I think, and we've talked about this
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: a little bit, it's it's those steep bottoms that are
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: really tough to hunt. It you get, you get one
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: that as a decent width on it, if you hunt
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: it with the right wind, you can hunt it effectively. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I got a question for you, Andy on that was that?
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: And you may have mentioned this, was it rather steep
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: the rain around there or was it more like gently
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: bowling hills or I would say it's more probably what
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: you're used to. Um. The only the only place I've
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: hunted um that I think might be comparable to what
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff Joe hunts is is southern
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Ohio and then one spot in Kentucky. And uh so,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: most most of my hill country I think has been
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: more rolling to you know, medium size hills, not a
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: ton of real steep, steep country. Yeah, I've got any
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: example like that, like you were just mentioning, umactly taught
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: that me and my dad both killed We've actually killed
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: a few bucks out of and it's the wide bottom
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: of the bottom itself is probably gosh, a hundred fifty
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: yards wide or something like it, and we have found
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: some very very consistent cruising and it's it's very similar
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: to what you're saying. There's a lot of points that
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: kind of shut right down into this bottom and it's
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: just I don't know, it's it's always held a lot
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: of deer. There is a a field kind of out
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: from it um and the deer kind of you know,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: kind of hug that kind of like an inside corner um.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: But they got down through there and we've had a
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: lot of right down in that bottom on you know,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: specific wind. Uh. Yeah, it's Joe, I think you you've
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: described that. You call that a thermal hub. Correct, Yeah, yeah,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: so it's um thermal hubs. So I do believe they
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: are using that to their sent advantage. But it is
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: also the reason these hubs um they're also a terrain
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: hub too. It's not just scent, but when you have
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: both those line up, when it's the shortest distance from
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: A to B and a deer, a buck can go
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: through there and sent a lot of those surrounding points.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: He can know if there's a dope up there or
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: I really think they use it for their defense too.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: I think they can check if there's hunters on the
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: surrounding ridges by drumping down in those areas, so you know,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: they check what's around them and it's the fastest and
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: you know, the most secure point from point A to
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: point B. That's when there, that's when those super hot
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: spuss like you guys described. I've you know a few
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: of those two and then um, often it's like one
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: specific or maybe two specific winds. Usually it's one specific
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: wind you can get hunt out there. It's like you
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: just have to sit, you know, and you might not
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: get that wind one one one season. You know, I've
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: been there where I'm like, yeah, you know, you know
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: it deers in the area. You know, you know it's
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: a hot spot that time of year. You don't have
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: to wind, don't even try it down well you know. Yeah,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys have been there too, and you
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: know you push it and never never seems to work
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: when you push it with the wind, or you get
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: that wind and you can't hunt that night. Yeah exactly, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: I wanna. I wanna two things. Number One, Um, I've
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: seen this exact same thing you're describing too in in
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: my southern Ohio spots. The one spot I've hunted a
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: decent bit of of hill country and and the exact thing.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: It seems like they'll be just a certain angle that
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: you'll get that one consistent wind if you've got it. Um.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: But I just want to make one simple observation for
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: people that are listening, UM to just kind of simplify
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: a little bit. A lot of the examples you guys
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: have all pointed to have all related to a turkey
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: foot as you described it earlier, Joe, but in two
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: different versions. There's the you could say, there's the turkey
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: foot pointing down, which would be where all the fingers
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: are pointing down. And that's the situation that you were
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier today, Joe, when you're talking about hunting
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: up top where those ridges and there's multiple ridges that
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: come up to uh to a pinch point of sorts,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: where you would be at the top of those and
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: all these ridges come up to it. So you've got
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: the the downward facing turkey foot you want to hunt high,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: and then there's the inverted turkey foot where the ridges
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: and the points are coming down to the bottom, and
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: that's when you'd want to hunt low. In these spots
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: that you're all describing. Assuming you can get the right wind.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: So so just a simple observation, look for those turkey
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: foot type situations and take note is that the upward
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: facing or the downward facing, and that's going to help
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: you determine where that sweet spot of activity will likely
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: be if you can get the wind right put it. Yeah, Yeah,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: that's that's very good. It's it's exactly it's the same feature.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: It's just exactly how you put it. You know, whether
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: it's the top of the ridges or the bottom that
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: makes that kind of hand shape, you know pattern. Yeah,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: So I got a question here in um I'm guessing
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: or I guess I'm hoping that the answer is varied
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit, but maybe they won't. But if I
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: took you guys down to an area you're not familiar with,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: southern Ohio, Kentucky, down in Indiana hill country, something you
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: had never hunted before, and you had one week during
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: both season to get an arrow in a mature book,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: what just give me your kind of overall uh game plan,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: your strategy from the second you get boots on the ground,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: you leave your vehicle two the day you shoot that dear,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: and I would want I want two examples. I want
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: one where let's call it just early season, you know,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: mid October, and then let's do the same thing more
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: pre run those last couple of days of October into
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: the first you know, week and a half in November.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: So let's let's start with you, Justin. And while you're
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: thinking about your answer, Justin, I just gotta say, isn't
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: this guy damn good at hosting? I feel like Andy's
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: gonna steal my job. He's got some good questions here
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: now exactly, all right, take it away, Justin. Okay, So
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: we talked about points. We talked about areas that you know,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Buck took me bad early season for me and Andy.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I know. You know, listen, Joe, I think too. And
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: I'm probably more aggressive than most of your guys in
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: the hills, um, even on stuff that I know. Oh,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I'm one of those guys that's not afraid to go
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: bump here up and I do that a lot. And
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: I have killed a lot of my books by doing
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: that and getting back in there stay a couple of
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: days later. And as both you know, Joe and Eady, no,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I've killed several of them coming right back in that
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: same day. UM, So that's gonna be my go to
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: if I've got a short period of time that i
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: can go on a new piece of ground that you
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: know that I've never been on, never stepped foot on. Man,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I'm going to aggressive. I'm going right forward, where's these
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: deer bed and I'm going to bump him up, and
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna look the area over and then based on
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: what I find from there, then i'll hunt up boarding,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: you know. So what I think my best cancer to
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: get the crack at that there is, um and it
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: may be that same day. Um. I'm not opposed to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: bumping a deer up depending on how I spook him.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: If if I get him up, you know, and and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: he didn't get my wind, I feel confident in that.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of them turn and come right
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: back in there or swing down wind of it, you know, um,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: and try to figure out what that was that bumped
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: them up. UM, So that would be kind of what
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I'm doing. And I'm obviously I'm going to look, you know,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: for the for the thicker stuff. If there's any type
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: of don't agg nearby, I'm probably gonna look at the
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: secondary points of stuff that shut off the major ridge
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: nearby that m bowls you don't think that we had mentioned. Hey,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: justin real quick, I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: but no, you're funny. Go ahead, this bump a dump thing.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: And we've talked about this, and you you pull this
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: off more than anyone I know, and you purposely do it,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: which I think is just so cool. Um, so correct
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong here, Like uh, I would assume
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna purposefully do that, you're you're
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna try to do this fairly early in
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: the day obviously when they're beded, so you're gonna wait
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: probably pass you know, mid morning at least, maybe going
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: around lunchtime, maybe you know, one one o'clock, eleven to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: one o'clock somewhere in there. And obviously you're playing the wind,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: your winds in your favor, um, and you have an
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: area that you're targeting based on wind direction in the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: train features that you've looked at on the map, and
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: you're gonna kind of slip through there, and you're trying
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: to you're trying to bump this deer like a soft bump.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: You don't want this deer to smell you. Um, if
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: he sees you or hears you. Not a big deal. Um,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: that's kind of the goal. But it's you want a
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: soft bump, not a violent bump, or you know you
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: damn near step on him, or you don't want him
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: to to wind you. And then once he's gone, you're
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: quickly analyzing the situation and estimating where you think that
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: deer is going to circle back down win to scent,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: check that bed and come back. And you've had great
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: luck even on the same day of deer doing that.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: And I also would assume if you sat there that
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: that afternoon and he didn't come back, you'd probably give
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: it one more sit in the morning. Would that be
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: accurate statement? That would be accurate? Maybe even another touch shot,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: you know, the following day, because I have seen to
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: where and again this is gonna be win. I mean,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: say you jump him off of a point, you know,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: on a northwest wind or whatever in the next day
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: is gonna be stout. Well, that could change things up. Um,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: but yeah, and you're you're absolutely correct. I'm not trying
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: to just blowing completely out of the area. Ideally, you
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: want him just to kind of jump up, you know,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: and just kind of trought off because I've seen that,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: and that's when I have had the best luck at
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: him coming right back in that that same day. And
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of times things like they hear me more
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: so than than seeing and obviously not smelling me. Um,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: they'll just kind of just kind of, you know, shut off,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: like a deer that spooked, but not uh, they're not
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: running out of the country by thing. And I've seen
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: it so often to where they'll they will they'll just
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: loop around and they'll try to figure out what that was.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: I had one um that it killed a couple of
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: years ago literally came right back in on the exact
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: trail that I walked into when I bumped him and
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: he was filling the green. I'm sure that dear thought
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: that that whatever it was, just like a coyote. If
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: they run through and they bump them up, they probably
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: circle around and do the same thing, come right back
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: in there that since you know, an hour old, now
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: that whatever it was has long gone, they slipped right
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: back into the bedding area. Um. The only problem for
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: him was I was still in there. I was still
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: in there, and I was actually looking it over to
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: pick a tree for the following day. And that hunt
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: really opened my eye to it on you know, killing
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: him on the same day, but I have done it
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: and then you know, came back the following day or
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: two days later, even five days later and kill them
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: coming out of there. So that would be my my
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: go to in the early seasons. UM for the free run,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna do the same thing, only I'm gonna
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: be paying the more attention to where like the dough
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: pockets are, the dough groups are, and then look at
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: some sign you know, in and around them, maybe trying
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: to even bump up some does trying to figure out
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: exactly where they're laying down it and then looking you
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: know it's down winds of those areas and trying to
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: find setup accordingly do that, Yes, would be my my
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: go too. There's uh I want to tell this story
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: real quickly because it just it just it's uh the
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: epitome of the type of hunter you are justin and
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: I don't don't even know if this was hill country.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: You can allude to that, but that's more to do
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: with your style. But you hunted uh different state this year.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna dive into it, but it's it's actually
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: uh spot that I told you about m and um
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: just so happened that I knew several hunters that were
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: hunting that same piece of public land while you were there,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: including one of the very best, John eberhard Um, and
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: several other very accomplished hunters. And I don't think he
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: was there that long, but some of those guys were
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: there during your two weeks, um, and it sounds like
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: it was some tough hunting, tons of pressure, and you
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: are the only person out of all those people that
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: pulled a deer out of there, and you pulled an
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: absolute giant out of there in just a few days,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: and uh, it was just incredible. I mean it was
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: just incredible. Um. But in you know, you told that
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: we talked about this hunt, and you were on foot
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: doing just exactly what you're talking about. Uh A lot
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: of the time, kind of still hunting, trying to get into,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: you know, where a big buck was living, and if
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: you needed to get him up on his feet and
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: bump him, then so be it, because then now you
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: know what you're hunting. But I don't know, I just
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: did that. I dude, actually kicked that deer. I'm I'm
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: almost a hunter percent to andy that I kicked that
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: deer up. I didn't. I didn't actually see him take off.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: I just I've heard him. I got up there to
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: the bed, I looked it over. There was plenty of
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: signing there, and I think I killed him two days
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: later coming back into the general area. That was just
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: a giant zealous giants. This is justin is so good
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: at that. I would I Andy said it just stay
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: here from me too, like this is where he like,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like that. You know that that
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: just fair woodsmanship. I'll understand. Then the deer um you
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: mentioned something justin that I wanted to kind of call out,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: and that's you said. You know, when they get bumped,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: they come back. They don't pay as much attention to
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: your sign your ground set. And I think that's true.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: And so a big buck moving through the woods gets
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: human scent. He's on the move. If he locks up,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: he's worried. But he gets bumped out of somewhere. Deer
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: places they live in North America. They're running into humans.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: You know, they're getting bumped up by people. So they
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: get bumped up. And if he gets bumped up, maybe
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: he knew you were a hunter a human. Um I
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: do agree, Like once, if they smell you, thoughts go
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: way down. But um, I think that um the um,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: I think that the deer if they get bumped up
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: and come back, they knew somebody was walking through there,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: so they're like, oh, yeah, he was there two hours ago,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: and then he dies because Johnathan was still standing there,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: you know. So, um that's what they like. I think
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: they're less worry about ground sent under those specific circumstances.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: You know, not gonna say. I mean, they might still
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: lock up, but they seem to. If they think it's
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: just somebody moving through, they're less worried, and they'll come
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: and they'll be worried coming back. They'll probably sneak try
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: to sneak back in, but it's not like them being
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: on the move and then hitting ground cent that's when
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: they freak out. You know, we're already yeah, yeah, spot
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: on with it. Though. I actually got to watch that
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: year from probably a good and I'm talking about a
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: year until a few years ago. Um, I got to
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: watch him that I like, I said, I bumped him
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: on the same day he made a loop and came
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: back in and I got him. But I watched him
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: coming into the bed from a good I don't know,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: eighty ninety yards, you know, and it's just like a
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: big buck moved through the woods. I mean he without
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: a doubt, he had his nose to the ground, was
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: spelling where I was. They could be steps. He stopped
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: and he's just stand there and you know you'd look around.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: I mean he did that all the way and it
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: took him forever to get in there. And uh, to
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: say I held it together, it would be a lie.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: I was shaking like a leaf as you coming back in.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: But but it worked out, and that really opened my
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: eyes to that. Uh. Like I said, I wasn't I
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: wasn't there on purpose to do that that day. I
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: was looking the area over, but it just so happened
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: that I caught, you know, I caught movement out of
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: the corner of my eye, and um, the restless history.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: You know, it worked out. So but I can tell
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: you a lot of stories too that where you know,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: I've jumped the deer up and I you know, I
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: set up for whatever they they would come back, and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: he did so. Yeah, And because of course it doesn't
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: always work. I got a couple of follo up questions
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: on that UM number one we hear about this bump
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: and dump tactic, and it makes sense, but it seems
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: like the real crux, like the real trick that separates
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: your average Joe from the guy like you who's actually
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: getting it done. And that wasn't a knock on you, Joe,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: You're no average show. I really admit I'm not really
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: good at this tactic, Like I don't have a lot
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: of confidence in it. Then let us say it's not
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't work, you know, so feel feel free
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: to use my name. I believe it works. It's just
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Justin's great at this. So then what separates what separates
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: you from average Joe here on the line is that
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: the trick seems to be in picking the right tree
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: for the setup. Like that seems to be the really
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: tricky spot is figuring out the way to set up,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: in anticipating how that buck's going to come back, in
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: anticipating how he'll use the wind um. That seems just
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: really tricky. There seems like a really narrow line you've
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: got to walk between being in the right place to
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: be close to being a range of whatever that trail
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: or where that bed is, etcetera, etcetera. But then also
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: anticipating how he's reacting to this bumpyhead. So question number
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: one is I'd love more detail on how you're thinking
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: through where you're going to set up. And then question
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: number two is bumping dumps like this in hill country
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: is that any different than in flatter terrain. I'm imagining
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: that on some of these types of points or betting
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: up a high on bowls these bucks, it's gonna be
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: harder to get close to a buck like that without
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: them seeing you from a distance because of their the
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: way they use terrain to their advantage. It just seems harder.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking it would be harder to pull off a
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: bump and dump without a buck bumping way sooner than
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: you would ever build it close enough to know where
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: he was betted. So just curious if there's anything when
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: it comes to those types of hilly situations where it's
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: just tough to get close enough to one to know
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: where that bed was. So question one and to start
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: to give you double double ammy there, but give me
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: the real details on that setup in your thought process. First. Well,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: in the hills, I think you're correct, it is definitely
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: hard to get close enough to see them because I
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: think a lot of times they they get out of
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: there before you were you know, aware of something even
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: being there. Um. But then again I've also had you know,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: big box, really old pipe an area and they're the
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: heck out of you when they jump up, you know,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: because you're right next to him or whatever. Um. But
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: in the hills, I mean, with the terrain and everything,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: I'm usually once I jump one and I feel like that,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: you know, he didn't get my wind, um, and he
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: didn't take off the bust off out of there like
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: he was here to death. I'm usually looking at the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: terrain around um that year, I feel like it's going
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: to try to get down wind of that. So if
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: it's you know, say if it's a bowl, you know,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: he's probably gonna try to use that other side of
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: the ridge to to come back in you know, well
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: out of cider anything. But it's it's it's hard to
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: explain to the situational based on the terrain around there. Um.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: I had a buddy and I think I sent this
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: you Andy that did it. He went in and and
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: was setting up on a deer and he bumping and
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: the ridge. It was kind of like point this year
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: was fed on well then the main ridge you know say,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: extend back to the south, and then there was kind
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: of made a ninety right there. It looked around down
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: to another point that dropped down. So I told him,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: I said, well, I would slip back on that bridge
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: back there. You know that the wind was blown back
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: in that direction. And sure enough that that deer just
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: you know, he dropped down off that point a circle
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: around and he started coming up this other point that
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: would have probably been about it. I don't know, a
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: hundred yards maybe eight hundred yards distance between there, and
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: unfortunately he you know, the shot didn't go so well. Hegnessed,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: but the deer did. Dude, he came back and he
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: was circling back around, and I'm confident he was circling
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: back around us, you know, to figure out what that was,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: so the terrain would be um the number one thing
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: for me. I'm looking at the rain and how I
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: think that deer we'll get down winto that position that
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: I was at down when his bed, how he'll loop
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: back in sture. I don't always get it right, you know.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: There's there's definitely times where, like I said, I don't
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: see him come back, and I'm sure maybe they looked
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: a little further out than I. You know, it's justipated.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: But and what was your second question there, Mark on that? Well, yeah,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: so so one part one you kind of answered both
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: of them together. Um, so it kind of worked out.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: But if you have anything else when it comes to
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: the thought process, I'm picking the tree and or unique
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: aspects in the hills, and you kind of combined them.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: But if there's anything else as far as picking the
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: right tree in that situation, I'll take it Otherwise. Otherwise, Andy,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: you can jump in. Well, I ticking the tree and stuff. Um,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: actually a couple of them. I filled off the ground.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: I did it this year. Um, early season. I jumped
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: one up, actually jumped this yere up right next to
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: a road and he crossed that. He ran out across
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: the road, which really shocked me that he went that direction,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: but across the road. So I looked at you know,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: I looked at it, um, and this was I mean,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: it's still country, but there was was kind of down
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: off in the bottom and a wide bottom. And I
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: looked it over and I knew about two fifty yards down. Uh,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: what it was is a blocket timber kind of like
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: a train in the shape blocket timber. At the tip
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: of that was a tree line that went down and
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: split this field and it's kind of like in a wail.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: And then that went down and head and you know say,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: if you would go left, it would left let off
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: to the bigger timber to the right was per centry.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: I felt pretty confident it that that deer was head
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: in that direction. The sign leading out of that um
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: pretty much told the story. So after I jumped him
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: and I was looking over that timber is about an
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: acre and a half size, I knew that I wasn't
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to cover all that if he came
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: back in, And as you got towards the tip of that,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: the winds kind of got punky up there. So I
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: just looked at the situation over. I thought my best
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: crack would be to move out of there, kind of
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: walk off in a direction like going back to the
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: road in case he try to, you know, follow me out,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: and uh. I walked out that direction and I kind
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: of made a loop in the field. It dumped back in,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: dumped down off kind of in this little valley, and
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: set up down there, thinking that deer would probably because
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: I bumped him I think at three in the afternoon
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: and that's when it's getting dark, at like six thirty
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: almost seven, And it worked out. He came back in, Um,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: came down through there and just carried on out. Is
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: the normal, you know, normal evening thinking. I was a
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: long going and that was probably a two and a
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: half to three hour stretch in between that. So as
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: far as picking the right tree, I don't know. I
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: just have to look the situation over. It's kind of
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: a got feeling and sinkuble type thing, I guess, you know,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: just being in that situation because they're all they're all
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: so different. It's hard to I mean, if I had,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: you know, an example in front of me or something,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: I could, you know, maybe go about the insternet a
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: little better. But yeah, no, that's that's helpful. Um okay,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: I think I think and lets you want to correct
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: me something wrong here? I think we need to hear Joe.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Now answer your example as far as the the new
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: property in southern Ohio, Kentucky. Right, that's right, Joe, so yep,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: brand new hill country ground. Uh, your strategy from start
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: to finish early season and then rut yeah, um, go
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: go yeah, um going in brand new. UM. I mean,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: I really admit it. It's distinctly different from justin. UM.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: I mean he's, as you guys could tell the last
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: that's a mensis next level and that UM, you know,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: just kind of snooping around, bumping um. UM. That's that's incredible. UM.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: He's a hunter. I want to be when I go up,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: you know, in those circumstances. UM. So I like, I
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: like to be efficient with my time. So UM, I
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: do a lot of scouting. I pay attention two tracks,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: you know, I pay attention to hot sign and food
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: source and all that. But really just to be efficient.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: If I'm saying, you know, it's a great big piece
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: of property. You know, it's these thousands of akers, UM.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: And I'm mapping out. I'm I'm mapping out like potential
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: betting UM based on like stem count and points UM,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: terrain features, UM funnels and and you know like the
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: turkey feet um that we talked about UM, like on GPS,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: and and I'm mapping all that out ahead of time
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: so I can go in. And basically I'm scouting too,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: and I want to be like I set offficient of
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: my time. I'm going to swing a big loop through
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: the area, and I'm my goal is to cover as
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: much ground as efficiently as possible. And a lot of
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: times like I'll have my bow with me, you know,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: and sticks and tree I use a tree saddle. Um
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: so um it's white mobile. And if I hit a
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: spot where I think it's worth setting up, you know,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: say acorns are fall in early season. Um, and there's
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: you know around a fresh rubber two and you know,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: big tracks and it's you know, just up the it
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: from a bunch of secondary points. Um. You know. Yeah,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: obviously I'll be looking for a set up or I
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: might be just you know, um, I'm probably a little
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: heavier handed than justin I don't think I quite quite
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: as touch about stuffed and set up. And I'll come through.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: I'll just you know, run through it, but still with
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: the mentality of like if I bump something, um, even
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: if I bump it hard, I might come back there,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: you know a few days later, um, and I and
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: I have um, you know done setting up head deer comeback.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: I re really admit I have not killed one doing that.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: I've come real close a couple of times, but I haven't.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't lie to you. Um. And it's
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: it's and it's more just you know, being good at it,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: you know, with practice to get better at it. Um.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: So I like to have a real as much as
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I like cyber scouting whatever. Um. I don't
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: have high confidence until I put boots on the ground
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: and walk through an area that's kind of my angle. Um.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: So I'll, like I said, it might be five acres
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: that I'm dealing with, I'll put in eight miles you know,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: in one day and just swing a big loop and
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: then I feel a lot more comfortable about Okay, you
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: know where the dare distributed in that area? Where is
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: the food right now? You know that very so much
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: earlier season. Um, and it can depend you know, are
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: the white oaks fall? And are the red oaks fall?
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: And are there any white you know, are there any
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: coinsmence woever? Are they you know? I mean per Simmons,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: you know I just mentioned, Um, there's different, Um, you
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: know early seasons about what's hot right now. It's not
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: last week, it's not next week. You've really got to
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: be you know. They things shift really rapidly. Um. And
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: then you know, my favorite time period is like the
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: pre rut into the early ruts phases. Um, I just
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: love hunting that time period. Bucks are moving more, but
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: they're still really consistent, um, you know, not too erratic movement,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: just following dose and heat before any does coming there,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: hardly any does come into astrius. So then then it's
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: more okay where the dough group and the bucks are nearby.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: They're not necessarily chasing or cruising yet, but the bucks
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: are going to keep tats on those dough groups. So
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: that's where it really I'll be focusing more on those
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: like um, you know, the the high turkey feet or
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: the low turkey seat as it talked about in that
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: pre rot period, the thermal hubs on those spots because
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: usually um, like those turkey seats, they a lot of
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: times have does that are they around there too? And
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: that's when the but you know that week build up
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: into the rut, that's when a lot of time you
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: start seeing bucks get visible in those areas where other
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: times a year they might not be anywhere around there,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: um because they don't need to, you know, they don't
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: care about it. Those UM that's kind of how I
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: tackle It's it's um probably more um just focusing on
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: strategy and preparation because that's kind of my style, you know,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: and that that's what I would stress. You know, Justin's
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: that doesn't have you know, he's got the best style
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: for him, not necessarily gonna be a sixth great step
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: for anybody else. I've got the best. I'm you know,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: working on the best style for me. You know, so
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: if you want to be the best tenor you can
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: be buying something that works for you. Don't try to
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: copy something else to somebody else. You know, you get
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: ideas from mother, Yeah, you can get get ideas from
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: somebody else, you know. You know I listened to Justin,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: you know, Andy, you Mark, Um, we listened to each other.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: But you know, um, I do think some people would
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: kind of get hung up. Oh you know I'm doing
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: what is doing? Yeah, you know that you've been you know,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: kind of waste, been in your wheels if you just
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: just kind of replicate, don't try to replicate, you know,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: my final works for you. Yeah. I love that you
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: guys answered that so differently, And I was I kind
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: of thought you might, um, But you know, you guys
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: are both you gos, both playing to your strengths like Joe,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: It's exactly how I thought you would answer that. Um.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: Your your hunts are very well thought out and very
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: strategic and um and a lot of times you you
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: anticipate exactly what is going to happen, even with your
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: deer drives. I mean that everything is so exact, and
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: I know it doesn't play out perfectly every time, but
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: it plays out just the way you think enough for
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: you to be successful on multiple big bucks a year
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: on very limited time. And I just oppresses me so much.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: And then and justin like, um, you know, Jeal said
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: it best man. Just on the fly woodmanship skills and
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: more of that aggressive instinctual approach. Um, so cool. Um.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: You know I I I feel like I feel like
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: I do a little bit of both of those styles,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: but I don't feel as seasoned as either of you
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: in your style at all. Um. And that's why I love.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: I just love talking to you guys, because I learned
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: so much. There's a couple of things after talking about
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: that I want to expand on. One is food in
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: the hills, but we'll get to that in a second.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: But so one of my things when I typically when
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: I go to hill country, it's been every time. Actually
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: it's been during the rut. I've never went early season, um,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: and I've always focused on terrain features, um, you know,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: thinking bucks are on the move. Um, I'm gonna play
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: the odds and try to get in these terrain funnels,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: these train features that should funnel movement, um if assuming
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: the bucks are moving. So I usually wait for a
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: good weather pattern, the right time of year, the right
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: conditions for that to happen, and I've had great luck
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: with that. But you know, obviously I kill. I don't
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: always kill the biggest deer in the woods and that
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: in that you know, in that type of situation. So
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: I guess my question for both of you is during
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: the rut, do you do that same thing, um or
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: do you still focus on some of these known buck
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: betting areas or where this deer has been living most
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: of the year. I know, I know Dan has talked
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: about that he's still even during the rut, he's still
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: bouncing around to some of those, um, those known buck
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: betting areas. So I was curious to see what you
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: guys do for me. Like when I go to an
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: unfamiliar area, I don't know what buck is there, so
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where a specific buck is living.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: And Joe, I know you are really keen into, really
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: tune into where a lot of these books you're hunting
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: are living. So I'm just curious during the rut, is
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: it one strategy more than the other terrain versus betting,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: or is it more does what do you think? Let's
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: go to Joe first? Yeah, um, well, I yeah, it
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: depends of course, UM but I would probably so, I'm
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: you're right like I'm I'm fanatical, you know, yeah, I
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: you know I live in Iowa. Majority of my huntings
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: in Iowa. Um, I'm able to hunt even I'm hunting
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of public land, you know. Um ah, I'm
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: able to hunt deer for several years. You know, we've
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: got a good age structure. Everybody knows that. So I
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: can you know, I cover a tunnel land to find
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: these deer. They're not easy to find. They're not in
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: every piece of public I can find, you know, five
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: six year old ducks. Um, and I can you know?
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: I My goal is to detect that deer, even when
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: it's I spread myself so thin that I don't um,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: I might you know, I'll get a deer on truck came.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: I never hunted that property, you know. I was like, oh,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: that's a nice four year old, you know, and they
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: hopefully I got him on camera, you know, on January. Um. Um,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: and he made it through this. You know, he's gonna
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: be around next year, and maybe I'll get a couple
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: of years of pictures um, and then I can really
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: and and layer on scouting spring scouting on top of that, um,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: maybe a hunter or two after him, Like I get
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: a couple of years of history with a deer, and
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: I really map out exactly how he's using that area.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: And almost always they're not entirely we actually talked about
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: this here earlier, but they're not entirely on a piece
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: of public um. They're like, you're hunting a tiny little
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: corner of the range. You've got like one opportunity or
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: maybe a couple opportunities to kill that beer. He's a
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: crossing public in daylight, or he's bet in one spot
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: on public. So um. So what I'm going am answering
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: to answer your question A long way around. I'm relying
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: on that last year history and it's a rut um.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: Usually it's this buck was cruising through this area in
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: daylight the last year or the last couple of years. UM,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: And it might be to a doe betting area. UM,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: I do target in the hills. I tend to think
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: the bucks shift betting um into the rut, most of
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: them do, UM, So they're betting tends in the rut,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: tends to be closer to the betting um. Sometimes they're
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: bett and even in what would otherwise be a doe
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: betting area if it's if it's thereout they might be
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: laying down in there. UM. But they're doing it where
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: I knew they were doing it last year. And that's
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: what I really key in on. UM that that's what
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: I just laser focus. I've I've got a UM probably
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: a majority of my dear UM that from multi year
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: history where I knew that buck like okay, like the
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: last ten days of October is my time to kill
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: this buck. I need this wind direction, I'm hot to
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: that spot and that's my chance, you know. So that's
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: what I'm teting. So it's not necessarily more dough betting
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: or more. It might be dough betting. It might be
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: just a buck cruising route. UM, it might be a
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: buck betting UM uh spot Um, that really depends, but
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: it's I'm detecting what it is well advance. So yeah,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: so a lot of a lot of it probably boils
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: down to, uh, you know, your knowledge of the individual
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: deer um. Like when I travel, I don't I don't
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: have that. So I'm pretty be with any type of
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: mature book. You know what it is. I would say
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: your strategies rock solid. You know you're looking look at terrain, Um,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: you look at bill betting, and it's really um, those
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: books are moving in between the dough betting areas if
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: you're if you time it right, um, and it's not
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: you know, right in the middle. Even if it's right
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: in the middle of lockdown, they're still you know, might
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: be up looking for another hot dough. But um, you
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: know you just need to you want as many lawyers
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: as possible, you know, you want like we talked about
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: those turkey feet, you know, um, and being a thermal
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: hub and the shortest distance between a point. That's what
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: you need a key and on. You know, if you're
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: not worried, you know, not worrying about dear history and
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: I know the maths best majority Like that's what gets
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: me super excited, Like I want to kill a buck
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: that you know I've stalked and you know, assassinate him basically. Uh,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: but that's not everybody's situation. That's when yeah, you just
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: you know, you die on on the train to cover
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: the does. Um yeah, yeah, justin Uh, I'm guessing it's
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: probably a combination of what Joe said and what I do,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: depending on your familiarity with with the deer in question,
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: would that be accurate? Yeah? Um, So if we're talking
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: a piece that I'm familiar with in the does and
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: where they've bet at. I think Joe touched on this earlier.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: So generally I find myself trying to kill a buck
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: that has better going private land. Well, you get into
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: the rut and they will move closer to the dough group,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: and I know, you know, from experience, I know generally
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: where that's gonna be, where the bucks in the move
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: in at and better closer to the end. So I
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: kind of I kind of base a lot of it
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: on that on the history. But if we're going off
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: of you know, something that I don't know, then yeah,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be terrain. It's definitely gonna be thrain. And
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: if I can find the hot food stores like a
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: you know, fay, it's a year, whether it's low acorns
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And I find a spot this drop in
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: those I'm not opposed even in the rud that stit
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: up there, because that's gonna draw all that does in
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: and the b they're gonna come through there and check
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: them out. So you know, it's a it's a very
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: age of it depends on I guess if I have
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: history with the property, we're talking something new or something
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: I've punn it. Mm hmm, okay, So that leads me
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: to I know we're getting a little long here. I
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: got just a couple more questions. This is this is
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: awesome stuff acorns food in general, um, but specifically acorns.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: I'll admit that this is I'm pretty man, pretty green
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: when it comes to acorns. UM. I mean, obviously it's
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: not hard to find red and white acorns. It doesn't
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: play a huge strategy for me personally around home. Um,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: sometimes it can, but not not a lot um. And
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: I know in the hill country it can be everything.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: So I just wanna touch on how big of impact
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: does that have on your strategy when it comes to
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: chasing these older deer. So Justin and you and I
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit. So why why don't
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: you start with that? Man? It's you, um finding those
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: It depends on the year to some years you have them.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: Just it just seems like they're everywhere. You know, find
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: those those spots that that they are really congregate to.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: I guess you know that really is a hot Hey,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: this term fat free, I've heard um, but you know
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: that's the best way to put it, a feat free
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: that all the deer are really hitting. So this year, uh,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: we did not have acres at all. There was a
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: few here and there when they were dropping. It was
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: just like that's where the deer were. Um. But yeah,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: it's huge. Um, if you know where the bucks are betting,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: and you know when they're working for the egg, they
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of them will hang up on those those
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: acren freeze um on the way to you know an
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: act feel So yeah, I mean it's huge. It gives
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: you at least an idea of where you're going to drown.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: You know, where he's kind of heading off even if
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: the if the eggs over here, but there's you know,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: acrons up on this bridge that you know isn't in
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: the same direction. He may head their first hanging up
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: and eat and work his way off down to the
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: agg So it's huge. I mean it's huge. So like
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: if if if the one one thing I noticed down
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: in Ohio is like bucks tend to have like obviously
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: they're they're a little they're little core range. You know,
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: it might encompass you know, two or three bridges, maybe more,
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: But I just noticed that I get pictures of them
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: and see them repeatedly on, repeatedly on. You know, these
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: two or three ridges, they got their little areas. So
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: you're just looking for, like if you're after a particular buck,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: you're just looking for that concentration of acorns in that
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: in that system. Because like I've I've always been and
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's inbreded me from hunting Michigan. Um,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: at all costs, do not, like let the deer know
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: that you're even in the area. Um. I've never had
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: good luck once a deer and once I've bumped a
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: deer of mature buck, I've never had good luck even
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: seeing that deer again. I've I've told you that justin UM.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: So I'm trying to wrap my mind around more when
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: I travel out of state that you know, deer are
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: very different, and I'm starting to see that from state
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: to state to state there they all behave and tolerate
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: different things. Um. But like in hill country, let's say
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to find that that were the hot like
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: you said, hot feet tree or hot little area of acorns. Man,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: you can cover a lot of ground because there are
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of these uh these pieces of hill country
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: have oaks everywhere. And I was down in southern Ohio
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: for New Year's and I did some had some scouting
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: down there, and it was like I walked a ton
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: of ground and then I found fresh acorns even on
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: on uh January one, fresh acorns on the ground. Um.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: But man, I had to I sure had to walk
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: a lot to find that. And it's just like it
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: just I just thought about all the deer that I
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: must have just educated, you know what I mean, alright
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: going through that area. So that's something I struggle with,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: um as far as like looking for food um in
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: the hill country and and having to cover so much
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: ground to look for that. So I don't know, what
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: do you what do you think on that? Well? Like
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: are you talking? So you're how familiar are you with that?
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know generally where the bucks are betting
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: at anyways, I mean outside of even not even looking
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: at the treat the food. I mean, you know, for
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: the most part where Yeah, well, I guess I'm thinking
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking more in terms of areas that I'm not
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: familiar with that I haven't hunted before, because you know,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: my plan is the hunt some new hill country, So
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking more in terms of in terms of that.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: So yeah, obviously, you know, when you when you have
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: an idea where these bucks are betted and where they're living,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: it's it's easier to kind of work around at Yeah, well,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean for me, I would be
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: looking for either or either trying to find where that
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: that there is, you know obviously it's betting at. Or
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: if I run into saying, you know, a wide oak
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: or something up on the top of the ridge and
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: it just has a ton of beer signed around it, well,
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: if you can kind of work out on the perimeter
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: of that. You know, for the most part, these books,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: even in the early seasons, they're going to have some
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: sign you know, working toward it coming in grapes and
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: stuff and grapes and big tracks and the scrapes and stuff.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: I mean I've told the I mean I've killed I've
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: killed several bucks, um, just based off that alone. Big
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: tracks in a scrape coming through there, not even being
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: a hundred percent you know where the where the buck
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: is betting at it. It's a gamble. Sometimes sometimes you
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: set up on it and he maybe coming through there
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: at night. But I think the sign for the early season, yes,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: early season, right justin yeah, yeah, absolutely they're going to
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: be close by, right right. That would be my kind
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: of go to. I would be looking for the sign
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: on the perimeter of that tree, working out for it.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: You know, it's where Ford points or a pole you know.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: Let me talked about earlier some of those you're betting at. Okay,
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: So I would go about it. Joe, what's your thoughts? Yeah, Um,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: a lot like what he said. So this past year
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: we had a few more acorns I think around here
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: eastern Iowa. Then what Justice said, there's still not a
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: big crop. So by mid to late not mid to
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: late November, um, they were gone um and the deer
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: were back heavy on the crop field. UM. And I
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: will say I mean a lot of people know this,
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: but like you can tell immediately as if you're in
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: farm country, you can tell immediately when they corns are
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: falling because the deer deal there's no deer, but you
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: know their corns are falling. You don't need to in
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: set put in the woods to know that. So um,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: so you know that's something I watch for. Um. And
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: when they show back up, there's not no way corns
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: in the area or eat them all up, you know. Um,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: they showed back up in the crowd fields. Um. It's
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: like I saw starting in the November, all of a sudden,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: deer really they became way more visible in the crowd
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: field um beating does and stuff um uh. And and
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: that's actually I found how it killed one of my
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: books this past year is I found like the last
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: spot I think, um that I knew about where there
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: was still acorns in the ground in late November, and
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: I killed it. Gin old monster deer Um that that
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think he's eight years old. Um.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: I can't prove it, but I have Victorial camera photo
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: or two of him from several years ago. And his
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: teeth there warn't flat to his gums. Um. So doing
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: them he's coming to acorns um in hand. The does
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: that were also drawn to that that oak flap so on.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: That's that's you know, late November, post rut um tail
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: under the rutum early season, everything's you know, squished down.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: Most of the bucks are moving way less. UM. It
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: gets tough in the real early season. One of the
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: big things I've struggled with is sometimes those bucks are
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: bed and virtually with an eye sight where they're feeding. Um.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: And that's you know, you find where they feed and
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: you know you're in trouble already. Uh. Sometimes but if
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: at the same time it can be real thick. So
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: maybe they're better within a hundred yards view if you're
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: finding you know, you've got to scrape near by, or
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: you see a fresh rubber two and big tracks coming
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: to a patch oak trees. UM, don't assume you spooked them.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: You might be better at you know, eight yards away,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: but you haven't seen it yet, so you can you
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: can have some uh luck just scouting and blind um.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: When you know the area and you know where the
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: oak trees are. UM, it does help a lot, obviously,
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: and then you can just you know, you know how
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: to get in check though and be like, you know,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: are they falling? Are there any acorns? Um? Is there?
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: You know buck sign? If there's not, you know there
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: might be. I really focus on those big tracks just
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: like you do, justin you know, the area might be
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: tore up, there might be even rubs. But if I'm
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: not finding those big tracks, I'm like, there's probably a
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: couple of little bucks running around. I'm not gonna waste
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: a hunt. I'm going to keep going. Um and uh,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: you know, try to find a big set tracks or
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: you know, if I see a rub and it's real,
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: toss the ground that you know, something else to you
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: in on um that big sea? Yeah yeah, do you
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: see that? Generally? Joe, like with the smaller the year,
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: are the ones easily hearing the woods up? Yeah? Yeah yeah,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: so around here might be a little different. Obviously we've
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: got a fairly good air structure. But the two and
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: three year olds there are the places up. Um they
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: just um if most of the time, if I walk
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: into an area, you know, and there's rubs everywhere, um
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: they are particularly high off the ground, a lot of
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: guys get super excited and I'm like, you know, I
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: start looking. I want to see a big whopper set
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: of tracks or a rub that's you know, waist hie
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: on me and I'm a tell guy, um, and then
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you know, then my my nose starts twitching. People. Sorry,
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna quick follow up question just for people that
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: are newer to this, that are maybe thinking, what's a
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: whopper set of tracks? How do you quantify that? What
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: if you had to put some kind of measurement around
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: that that would tell you like, yeah, that that's a
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: big one. What would you tell someone I don't, um,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: so that varies like region of the country. Um, and
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: you know some I know there's a role thumber. It's like, oh,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: it's a four finger track. Well, I've got big hand.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just a large, large guy. I've got big hands,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: and I've never seen a four finger track made by
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: a deer. Like a four finger track is a probably
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: a bowl elk on me. So, like, you know, I've
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: gone around a major tracks. Other guys don't even do that,
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: but like a big track for me, you know, if
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: it gets to be two and a half inches or
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: wider um and not splayed out, ignore those running tracks.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: You can get a big dough looking like a giant
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: buck if it's running especially up you know, down down
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: a hill or something. Um. I kind of ignore the
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: split out tracks. In soft ground they all splay out, um.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: But in firmer ground, UM, I want a standing or
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: walking track, you know two and a half inches. They're
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: wider for around here. And I think it varies. I
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: think it's some parts of the country might be bigger.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: Other parts of the country probably not nearly that big. Um.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: That's a that's a big buck. Um. And I will
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: say I have seen a shock like a majority you
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: find big track it's a big, big old deer. But um,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: A high number of bucks that I've killed actually had
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: doe size feet, um, like big doe size feet. Um.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: Not a majority, but like I don't know, like like
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: way more than you'd think. Um. I killed a buck
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: this year. Um, he weighed two d forty pounds field
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: dressed mid November. And that deer I have photos of
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: his puff and that deer had a doe size huff um.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: And he had a huge body and he was a
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and seventy plush it sixteen pointer,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: and he had a doe size foot so big they
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: come in all shapes and sizes, and that's not that
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: that's not not like I've got I could pull up
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: half a dozen other deer that I've killed that weren't similar.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: But you find a big track that's a big buck,
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: you know that's still a rule. So yeah, cool, just
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: when you try to say something, no, I mean, I agree.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: I think it absolutely varies own size, just like on location,
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: like Joe was saying, because I've seen it, Like you
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: go from you know, Missouri to Illinois and there's an
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: older age structor over there and the tracks over there
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: that they are just there's a there's a big difference
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: in a big buck track in the Surrey versus Illinois
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: from from my experience. But going back earlier, one question,
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: So when you had that you tell that one buck
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: going to Akarns, did you know where he was betting it?
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: Or was that you're just setting up on sign? Yeah,
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: I was setting up on sign, but I knew the property,
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: so I knew he was coming from you big overgrown
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: kind of weed field. Um that they like to put
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: that in, um so with our foul field like cr
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: CRP a brush year um so um, I figured he
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: was coming up that rich system from that sure enough. Um,
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: that's what you know you did, but I did. That
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: was the first deer I've killed in a few years
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: that I did not know about him really, um in advance. Um,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: it was I was just I was taughting more your
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: style where I was like that, this feels like a
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: good spot. That's a good feeling. Though I I've really come.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of times the deer I kill
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: around home, like you know, northern Ohio, Michigan. A lot
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: of times I know the deer. You know, I have
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: some familiar familiarity with them, and it's cool and it's
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: it's cool to learn that history. But I really love
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: that feeling like we had when we were younger, when
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: you you don't know what's out there. And uh, that's
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: why that's what I get to experience when I travel. Um.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: And I just love that the element of surprise and
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: know it's just if that if that book makes my
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: heart skip, you know, I'm drawing back, and I just
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: really love that. It's a it's such a cool feeling
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: and a lot of with so much technology now these days,
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: sell cameras and you know, people running all kinds of crap.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: It's like there's hardly any secrets left, you know what
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: I mean? And I just I love I love traveling
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: and just leaving the cameras at home and just hunting
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: off instinct and sign and shooting what whatever gets me excited. Yeah,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: I agree with definitely something to be said by that. Yeah.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: I keep threatening myself one of these years, I'm just
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: gonna leave all my cameras in the cupboard and do that.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: And I will, It's just I haven't done it yet. Well,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: you know what we gotta do, Joe's we gotta make
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: a pact that one of these years you and Dan
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: Johnson promise not to use trails podcast. Yeah. Well that's
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: a perfect segue into my last question. Um, what is
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: your guys trail camp strategy in the hills? Um? Where
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: you like to put them, how you like to check them.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: If it's a mix of leaving them out year round
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: and some of you check more frequently, What types of
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: train features, scrapes, benches, saddles, give me the give me
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: the rundown of of how you personally use truck cameras
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: in the hills justin Um, Yeah, it depends on a
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: lot what you said there, Like if if it's one
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to leave and and I'll admit this. I
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: got this from Joe, you know, I think his scredity
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: it is obviously found. So I've got to wear you know,
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: the past four or five years, I've I've left a
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: lot of cameras out and uh, I'll put them in
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: right in near Betting. Um. It may be on a
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: ditch crossing, you know, or a saddle leading out of
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: a bowl like I was talking about earlier, or some
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: something like that, some rain feature in there de Betting area,
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: and I'll just leave that in there for the majority
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: of the season. I've actually got some cameras out now
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: that I put out in late August. Haven't been back
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: to them yet. So but the other ones, I mean
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: around fields and stuff like that, was I can flip
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: in and check. Um. You know, I know we talked
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: about this before. But the ones that you can get
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: in like that, that you're probably not going to get
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: daylight pictures on. But you're just trying to see what's
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: in the area, see if there is a mature buck
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: in the area, you know, and a lot of a
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: lot of them. I'll throw up as I'm scouting if
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: I see a big set of tracks, you know, leading
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: out into a field, and I'll throw the camera up
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: to try to get an idea what it is. Um.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, a lot of its train features. I
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: like ditch crossing. I really like ditch crossing to funnel
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: steer down and a lot of times too you can
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: get a good idea of just looking at this tract
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: phone that its crossed, what's moving through there. So for me,
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: if that would probably be the majority of my replacement
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: right here at this cross mm hmm. How about you, Joe. Yeah,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: I like dis grassings too. Um So yeah, if anybody
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: hasn't heard my spiel, I really focus on leaving them soaked.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: I'm just like justin Like I've got quite umb half
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: a dozen cameras out yet early January right now that
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: I haven't. I've been slowly picking them up over the
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: last few weeks. Um, but um, I've got some cameras
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: out and um I'll be looking at you know, when
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: bucks were, what time of year they were on camera.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: I recognized the deer from past years, you know, and
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: then all the weather conditions um hm for these spots.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: I really like thermal hubs too. Um. I love sticking
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: them down like in a thermal hub and figuring out
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: you know what what conditions and exactly thermal they are
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: very time of year. Um. Like the annual pattern, there's
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: really pretty consistent annual patterns with hubs and the deer
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: bucket activity through them. Um. Usually within a few days
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: every year it lights up. UM. Some hubs, I mean
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: they some some hubs are used earlier season. Other hubs
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: there are more used during the rut. It depends where
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: the betting plays out and around them, but um, hubs
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: are really major part. UM. I used to have cameras
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: in more easy access areas and I still have. I
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: have a couple um here and there, but I don't anymore.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: And it's really just because of time. UM, My time
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: still limited. I just um, that's that's been the struggles
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: both of you have gonna share a little bit. I
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: am struggle to get out there and I have such
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: a limited time. Um. You know whatever, hunted seven or
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: eight times this year with a bow and it stressed
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: me out, Like that's pretty pathetic over the course of
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: two months. Um, and uh, I don't have time to
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: stop and check a camera like I'll still speed scout.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: You know, once or twice a week, but like, just
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: if I have a camera, that's one more thing I
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: gotta do. So I've almost entirely now. And yeah, i'll
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: check a camera speed scouting, but um, I don't want
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: it to be an extra thing, so I'll just um,
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: you know, cameras there, I hang them, and I start
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: hanging them in July August. By September, I want them
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: all out and most of them aren't going to get
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: touched until December. So um, that's just kind of how
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: it works. Um. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's pretty much.
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: And and um, since hopefully Dan Johnson is listening, I'll
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: tell a quick story about another bucket up on um.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: In early November, I was after this great big wite
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: eight pointer um and he was um he this. I
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: knew where he was betting. He's down in Oxbow on
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: public land and he was coming in out of there.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: Um he's coming out and out of there pretty consistent
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: the previous year. Um and and um I figured he
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: was still alive. Um. I went down there and I hunted,
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: and I saw him. I plan on hunting a full day.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: Well work called my name, and I could only hunt
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: the morning um and I saw him that morning from
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: a distance, and my I had to climb down at noon,
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: and Mike Gut said, Joe, you're making a mistake. But
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: I just could not stay in the tree. And I
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: picked that camera up in December and half an hour
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: after I climbed down, and I did not check. So
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: I bring the story up because I did not check
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: that camera. That cameras thirty yards from my spand but
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: I had across a bunch of trails check that camera,
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: and I did. I left it there. I could see
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: it from my stand. Half an hour after I climbed down,
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: that darn buck came through and I could have killed him.
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: So that one probably burns more than any other, uh
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: encounter I had this year. You know, Yeah, I've heard
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: that story and you know you just near it. People,
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: I climbed down too early. Well this year was me
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: so well what you pulled off though this year and
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: such limited time with a ball during bowl seasons just
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: I mean just incredible. I mean, you killed you killed
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: two awesome bucks. I know it was a frustrating year
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: for you, but yeah, man, just great stuff. Mark. You
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: got any other questions for these guys, Well, I'll say,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: first off, UM, awesome work all three of you guys.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: As far as having a hell of an interesting conversation,
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: I've I have really enjoyed kicking back and listening and
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: just enjoying this as a listener really. Um. But I
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: do want to give you as an opportunity for one
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: last thought and and this is something I like to
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: ask people on occasion. If if I were to give
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: you a billboard on the side of the highway, and
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: you could put any simple message there for hunters, and
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: let's say we're gonna stick with a hill country theme.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: So if you could leave one last parting bit of
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: wisdom that you had to put on a billboard. This
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: could be one thing you want everyone to do, or
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: or one thing that everyone should you know remember, or
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: one thing you don't want people screw up on. Um.
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: And if you could synthesize it down to that one
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: simple phrase you would put on that billboard, Um, what
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: would that be? And I'm actually gonna ask you Andy
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: as well. UM, So, so Joe, tell me what would
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: your hill country billboard side of the highway? B oh man? Um,
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: I'd probably keep it pretty big and and you know,
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: find your own way. Um. I think that's more important
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: than any you know, the details. You look look at
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: the differences between Andy and myself and Justin. You know,
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: yeah there's overlap, but like, um, you know, um or
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: or stick to the basics. That's another one. I guess,
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: can I get two billboards? Uh? You know something like that? Um,
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: look at like back bare and ball with in public. Um.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: I just love how he hunts. Uh you know, it's
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: completely different how I hunt. Um, he sneaks around and
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 1: even crazier and justice he's like or maybe he just
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: carries the camera. Maybe he justin doesn't you know the
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: same thing. But um, you know he's just honest feed
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: all the time. He's not staying in very much like
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: he's and he's you know, having crazy good luck in
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: many different states. Um. You know he's learned through widmanship
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: and attention to detail. And it's completely different than the
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: strategy I've found that works for me. So um, you know,
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: trying new stuff, listening to new listening to different people,
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: but really, you know, trying to find it work for you.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: That's a hell of a lot of billboards. Now, Joe,
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: But what about you, Justin? You got any ideal you know,
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: kind of stole my my answer there. I was going
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: to say in season, I was gonna stay in season
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: scounting because for me, I had seen my success go
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: through the roof by not being complacent, not just going
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: up and finding a buck bed and then hunting near
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: that buck bed or finding big sign or what you know,
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: whatever it be, and just being complacent and hunting that
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: to death, or hunting you know, when I get tapportunity
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: just on that spot that I may have found two
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: weeks ago. Because we all know so many things are
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: happening out there. I mean, it's it's changing day by day.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: So I would say in season, I like it, and Andy,
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: what do you got? Yeah? I think I think my
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: answer stems from the fact that I typically have hunted,
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: uh well, pretty much all of my hill country experience
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: has been during the rut. But mine's gonna say ten
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: to two, ten o'clock to two pm I have had
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: during the rut um that time frame has been my
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: most successful for seeing big deer on their feet, um
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: more so than in any other type of terrain. My
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: mornings tend to be a little slow, my evenings tend
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: to be a little slow, and that's probably because of
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: where I'm sitting. But man, that midday time frame, you know,
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: when the conditions and then the timing of year is
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: is right, just deadly, So keep your butt in the tree,
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: tended to tended to well, you definitely win for keeping
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: it nice and tight and billboard size. Yea. Well, Uh
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: this has been This has been great, guys, all three
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: of you. Thank you for taking the time. I learned
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: a lot in this one. I'm I'm excited to listen
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: to it again and think through everything. A lot of
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: great stories to review. And uh, I know a lot
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: of people are going to come out the other end
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: of this one with something to work on and something
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: to chew on. So thank you all. And uh, I
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: know it's only January right now as we're speaking, but
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: good luck and about nine months or whenever your next
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: tithing season kicks up. Uh yeah, it's kicking off right now.
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: You know. My my season ended January tenth. So I
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: think both of these other guys in the same boat
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: like this, this is where we earned the next year.
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: That's right, good stuff right there? Great parting words. All right,
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: that was a conversation, wasn't I Mean, there was some
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: really good stuff and they're probably one of those episodes
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: you need to listen to a time or two to
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: collect it all and to make sense of it all.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: But man, I'm thrilled with how that turned out and
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: excited for some of these other shows to come. Stay
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: tuned on all that. Uh. Next week, we're hoping to
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: have another one of these habitat deep dives, so so
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: stay tuned. Make sure you're following Wired Hunt on Instagram
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: and Facebook. We're gonna be posting more updates there as
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: well as the white Tail Weekly newsletter that comes out
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: every Monday with the latest content for myself and other
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: people on the Mediator team that are focused on Whitetail stuff.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: So check it out, stay tuned, Thank you for your
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: time and attention, and until next time, stay wired to Hunt. Yeah,