Latest / She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young / Natasha Short - Proud Jaru woman and Kimberley Jiyigas Founder!

Transcript

Natasha Short - Proud Jaru woman and Kimberley Jiyigas Founder! · She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're listening to She Said It Out Loud, where real women share real stories without sugarcoating a thing.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Emma Young, and I'll bring you on filtered conversations with ambitious women who faced challenges, made bold moves, and learned a lot along the way.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: You'll get real takeaways, honest lessons, and stories that you're gonna relate to.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Righto, let's get started.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hey there and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Emma Young, and this is, of course, She Said It Out Loud.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for downloading today's episode.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is kindly sponsored by KS Media in Broome.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, I have a brand new sponsor, and I am so excited to have Kareem on board sponsoring some of the episodes coming up over the next couple of weeks.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, KS Media, his business is based in Broome, but he provides professional photography and videography for businesses, brands, and events across Broome, the Northwest and Perth.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: KS Media creates content that's designed to showcase your business, of course, at its best.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if your business needs fresh photos or video content, be sure to get in contact with Kareem from KS Media.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So my guest today is Natasha Short, and she is an absolutely powerhouse of a woman.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: She's based in Kananara and she has started up a business, well, she's had this business for quite some time now, and it's called Kimberly Jiggers.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I was in Kananara recently, I had to get her on the podcast and talk about how this business works, what she does for the community of Kananara, but not only that, the Kimberly itself, and what she's been up to lately.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So enough of me waffling.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Here is our conversation.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the podcast, Natasha.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so incredibly pumped to have you on today's episode.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Here I am in Kananara.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've literally sat down and I'm sitting across the one and only Natasha Short.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I would have mentioned in the intro just how good you are.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Natasha is the founder of Kimberly Jiggers, which is a hundred percent indigenous-owned business based here in Kananara.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Kimberly Jiggers delivers culturally grounded consulting, program co-design, and practical delivery support for organizations that are working in community, government, and regional contexts.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: To say that she is an incredible woman and just an absolute inspiration for all women, you can hear it in my voice.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's how pumped I am.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So before we even get started, welcome to the podcast, Natasha.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Emma.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Great to be here.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell my listeners out there a bit about yourself and how you would describe yourself?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: How would I describe myself?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, first of all, I'm a Jaro woman from Hawks Creek community, but my parents moved to Cunanara back in 1982.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: 44 years, that's a long time ago.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: A long time ago.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been here since childhood.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Cunanara is my home.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love Cunanara.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful community.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful people live here.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my parents made Cunanara their home.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the eldest of four children.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think growing up in Cunanara was really about it's completely different to how it is now, Emma.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's completely different.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot more of a community vibe in our community, a lot more cohesion.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Probably a simpler life, maybe.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And my mother was a keen fisherwoman, so we'd go down the river often on weekends.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So she'd go fishing, we'd go swimming.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a very simple life, and I think it was really my grounding, really, to who I am now.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: But we were very immersed and very much a part of community and social work, you know, and trying to make a difference in our communities with community development initiatives.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And my mum, as well as my dad, but particularly my mum, super generous and a giver to mob.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so my mum was very inspirational to me in that regard.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how this your mum has has obviously helped shape who you are today.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've spent, I know we just talked about you've been here for a long time, but you've spent around 25 years working in community development before you even started Kimberly Jiggers, which we'll we'll touch on in a minute.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: But was there a moment when you realized that you know that you could create more change by doing things your way?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd spent 25 years working in community development because a lot, like a lot of my peers, we saw the social inequities, we saw the disparity, and we were like very interested to bridge the gap ourselves on our own terms and our own power.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course, we were maybe idealistic back then in regards to how much energy it might take or what those things meant.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't really understand as young people.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: But after 25 years working in community development, you have a far greater understanding of how systems work and how people work and what you're really passionate about and where you want to invest your energies.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're not, it doesn't, you don't have unlimited energy.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have unlimited time, unlimited resources.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So then you start being a little bit more strategic or purposeful in how you're using your time and your resources to get an outcome.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was just probably entering my 40s, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I had a friend who was a business coach and mentor.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's just a person that I knew in community.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: And she's she she suggested to me, why don't you start a business?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've created enough of a network, you've got enough life experience, you've got enough skills, you've got qualities that could probably allow you to step into the business space and still do what you're doing in that arena, but on your own terms.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was an enlightening thought, enlightening.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because I had never had anybody suggest to me previously to start a business.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was just so happy to be that worker be, you know, doing what I was because I'm driven by passion.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm driven by purpose.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like already doing it, but it's like, oh, if I don't have to work with people who don't align with my values, or if I don't have to work with people who don't get my cultural context, which was often the case.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And my I was working with people who had nothing, who had no knowledge of Indigenous people or the Kimberley context, or how hard it was, or what what Indigenous priorities might be versus theirs, because based on their lived experience.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: But is this because they were transient people that they're coming?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was a no never-ending stream of people coming into the region, and it still continues to this day.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like it's ever going to change.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even saying it's a bad thing.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: What it means, what I'm saying is that it puts immense pressure on people like me who are very single-minded about what I want to achieve.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to build on something that was done last year, not have somebody come in and you know clean the slate and let's all start again.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because if for some strange reason, this is human behavior, somebody new comes in and they think, oh no, I think we should do it this way.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, we're gonna change this.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna they got no understanding.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's been something building behind.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, that was leading somewhere, but they want to put their own stamp on it.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: They want to do it their way, according to their lived experience or their their personality, or you know, maybe they think they're too clever sometimes.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but really who's clever is the people that are coming in and going, hey, you've been here for a long time.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: What can I glean from you?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: What do I understand from you in order for me to be that better uh person in this environment?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: You see, you tr you have you have to touch base with the local people who can give you the information that you need to be the best operator, not have arrogance to think that you know it all.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: See the level of confidence that I see in people who are coming in sometimes, not everybody, but sometimes I see people coming into this environment and going, oh yeah, no, I know how to do it.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, you actually don't.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're like there's a high chance you actually don't know what you're doing, you know, because I'm an arrogant person born and bred from the Kimberley, and I can tell you that I still get it wrong when I go out to community sometimes about what that person intended.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: How that person is feeling, the reality of what they're dealing with the previous week.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can still get it wrong.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: As a person who's lived here all of my life.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you just imagine a person that's straight out of university and here they've arrived, and now they think that they're the big weak because they're the CEO or they're the this and that.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And making decisions that aren't informed by local people.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when I sit in stepped into my business in 2018 at the advice and encouragement of a friend, a new world opened up to me.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine how exciting it was?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: To to then be like, oh, well, I can actually be the person that's making the decision here.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can be the person who's raising where the gaps are because I've got the lived experience behind me.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's what I say to women out there who are starting business.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you're not starting from scratch, you're starting from experience.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: You could have 10 years behind you, 20 years behind you, 30 years behind you.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're bringing all that to the table when you're starting your business and you're offering insights to other people who are now just brand new in this environment.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you're not.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're an old hand and you're coming with a wealth of information.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And don't discount the knowledge that you have.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredibly valuable.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that you can actually make money out of.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Your knowledge is something that somehow is a way that you can make money.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that touched on quite a few points there.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: The thing there's that I really want to know is obviously from this business mentor, is this where the idea for Kimberly Jiggers come from?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Kimley Jiggers came first.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So Kimberly Jiggers was set up in 2018, and it was me then stepping into that space on my own terms as a business owner.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I gathered other Abrigner women together because I wanted, I knew that the Abrigner women were the backbone of our communities.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that they were more advanced than even probably a lot of our Abril men.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: That in my circle and in my experience, the women were leading more so than the men.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they were clever.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I gathered them together, some of the clever ones, and to say, you know, I know you're a leader, I know you're an action taker, I know you're a person of high integrity.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's put our voices together to advocate for changes.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: We want to see changes in our communities, in our families, in our own lives.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be empowered, we want to be enlightened, we want to have experiences like every other Australian.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so Jiga's birds in Jaru was a play on the fact that sometimes women are called birds, eh?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Birds, chicks.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that that was I was being a little bit clever until I got a knock on the door of my car from somebody saying, I've got an injured bird in my car, can you help me?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, No, I don't actually work with feathered birds.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's women.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that was 2018.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: 2020, because I was then out and about doing stuff, I had other groups approach me to set up what is now known as the Maganda Makers Business Club.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Muganda Being, meaning tomorrow in Jaru.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's two different distinct hats that I wear.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Timberly Birds is my business.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a company that after a few years of being a sole trader, I turned it into a company.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then after a couple of years, I then set up Muganda Makers Business Club, which has been a pilot since 2020, but last year became a standalone entity in its own right.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a company limited by guarantee now that it has an it's an organization that has a board and it has staff.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Jeez.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that organization is where we are supporting those 140-odd members who are part of that club.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they're not, it's not like they're engaged all the time.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: They go in and out, depending on what's happening in their life or the season of life or but don't you think that's important?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the reason why you do business, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: To have control over your life.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: That if you can't do it for a month because you're in grieving, because you've lost somebody in your family, you just park your business for a bit and you just pick it up when you're feeling ready.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's incredibly important that you mentioned that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's similar to the role that I've got teaching with Jada Gen.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they fund the position that I've got, and the program is called Choosing Your Way.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it was obviously originally a pilot program that was funded through Canberra, and Canberra just didn't get it.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: We had several different people from Canberra come, they would see it, and they're like, hang on a minute.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: The education and what you're teaching people needs to be linear, it needs to show this progression.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not the case.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And especially after obviously being in this role for five years, I'm still learning.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like exactly what you say.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned the hard way so many times where, you know, part of my own personality is I'm like, let's go, let's learn, let's get this stuff done.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And somebody will tell me, oh no, it's thread fin.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or the weather's good.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go catch turtle.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what do you mean?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we we gotta get this done now.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, no, no, we've got to do this this way.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that, it's the same with working alongside people that potentially want it want help this month, but then they know that they're going to Derby in a month's time and and or at two months' time, and I might not see them again.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Three or four months down the track, they come past.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that you brought that up because I don't think a lot of people, unless you've lived in community, unless you've gone to different, you know, towns in the Kimberley itself, you you've really got to understand that's important.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's incredibly important, and I think that see in the Kimberley, we have a lot of um government services and we have a lot of welfare.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what the reason why Mugginamakers Business Club ended up exploding with with numbers of of new women joining our uh movement is because they're done with the nine to five structures, they can't fit into the nine to five structure because there's too much pressure.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little bit of social uh disconnect or, you know, um all sorts of range of issues that are compounding and that put immense pressure on people.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to sustain these traditional working environments is not for everybody.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: They can't keep it up.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so business has now become a way that people have their sense of control and empowerment over their own lives, and they just make do with whatever revenue they generate.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be those big dollars.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about their social, emotional well-being.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, it's not a linear, you know, uh approach.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of like backwards and forwards and in and out and making it work.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so if people can just accept and understand and work with the fact that abnormal people don't want to be fit, you know, stuck into this box.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and can they just design life on their own terms?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And can they work out what suits their family needs?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess that I mean that ties in nicely to my literally my next question I was going to ask you in regards to, you know, we often hear about creating employment opportunities, but how is it important that we also create pathways for Aboriginal people to become business owners and employers themselves?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so important because I I literally just came from a session this morning where I was talking to a bunch of Aboriginal business owners, women.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and talking to them about their needs and and also some of their um successes and things like that.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, they are employers.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And all the data and statistics out there indicate that Aboriginal businesses reinvest back in a non-paralleled way by non-Indigenous businesses.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they will 100% more likely be to employ Aboriginal people in their business.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's family businesses, they engage their own family, they're bringing in economic opportunity to their own blood, to their own family, to their own community.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not only are they doing it on their own terms, but they're basically passing that blessing on.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Passing that opportunity on to their own family.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And in in that process, feeling deadly, like one someone said today.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel deadly running my own business.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I feel empowered.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that I'm an inspiration to my community.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't ever want to give up business because it's changed my life.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I and I'm seeing more and more women stepping into this space.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're a very high-growing, you know, um, population, Indigenous women in business.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we need those supports and we need others to recognize don't just put us in the box of nine to five.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Some of us don't want to work under those systems.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: We want the freedom and the flexibility to be outside.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: We can do it because we've already had many years of experience working inside jobs.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can we get a better outcome working on the outside?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there's enormous social return on investment that Indigenous businesses brings to our Kimberley community.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's not enough people here doing business.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're less than 10% of the population, business population across the Kimbley.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And why why do you think that's the case?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so new.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Even though it's been even though Aboriginal people have been doing business traditionally for a long time in terms of trade, this system of the Western system where Abraham people have now got to operate within that context, is very daunting, you know?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And is that because you you do you think Aboriginal people in as a collective think that it needs to be like the traditional sense of business?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, it has to.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: The structures are there.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: You still have to respond to the ATO.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You still have to, you know, market your business in in a traditional way like how every other business probably has to.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Either word of mouth or you do it on socials or you pay for ads or whatever.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's l a legal aspect to business.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's multi, there's many layers of business, and that all that information can be daunting to people.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, many of us are first generation business owners in this contemporary sense.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't have our mother and father to look to for business operations.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: They were involved in social change.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: They were involved in community development.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Whether they gave themselves that tag or not, they often didn't.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember my talking to my mum.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: My mum's passed on now, Emma.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: But my mum, I remember her saying, I don't class myself as a leader.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just doing what's right or what I want to do or be as kind as I can to other people.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Other people would have viewed my mum as a leader.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't put that tag onto herself.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: You see?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so even sometimes people are a bit nervous in saying, I'm a business owner, because they don't they feel like it's a little bit maybe boasting or something.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was gonna use the word shame.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you think?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and they've got to overcome that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what somebody said this morning.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I would have been terrified five years ago to step into a room and speak as a business owner, I would have felt like I'm a fraud.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's that growing of that confidence that we're seeing in our women that is so, so exciting for me.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I'm thrilled.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled if I come across a woman and she says, Oh, you were my inspiration, or thank you for supporting me or giving me kind words because I had I was experiencing lateral violence in my communities and you uplifted me, or the fact that you're doing what you're doing is is driving me to strive for more.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: You should be proud of that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that because that's very satisfying to me.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like how it's me accomplishing my dream and my goal as well, not to just transform my life for my own betterment and for my family, but for my community.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing that.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've already talked about obviously, you know, that I work for Judge and Aboriginal Corporation and the community itself, they have been a huge advocate for funding themselves the position of a financial counsellor.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Who is Veronica Johnson?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: She's one of my work colleagues and she's great.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to have literacy resources that are community informed but also culturally appropriate.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have obviously gone through and researched a whole bunch of the things that you've done, and I really liked your No More Humbug Community Research Project.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really did like that and the campaign in particular.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me more though about the process and how you develop these resources for organizations?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't obviously have to go into detail about the exact process, but I guess the purpose that I want to educate listeners in this episode is that community-led and culturally appropriate resources are actually essential in educating people.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't think that people get this.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: They don't get it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So five years ago, Kimberley Community Legal Service had reached out to my business, Kimberly Birds, and they said, we're sort of seeing issues here where elders are coming in and we we suspect there might be abuse coming on, um, happening to them, sorry, and we're trying to respond to it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so they engaged me to do this research piece, and I went right across the Kimberley talking to a whole bunch of people that were affected, like elders themselves, uh, and stakeholders, people who work with elderly people across the Kimberley.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the, you know, findings were really quite disheartening to see the prevalence of elderly, and it was financial elder abuse.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it there's a there can be multiple abuses, but this this focused on people being taken advantage of with their money story.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so out of that, out of after that data had been collected, we created an animation, which is still so.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: This issue is still so prevalent today in our communities.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And sadly, it has still has not been responded to five years later.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: There were posters, there was a report with recommendations, there was an animation done, and we shared all of that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Kimli Community Legal Service, as well as Kimbla Giga, shared all that.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And as a matter of fact, just recently I have touched base with the organization and they want to do a relaunch of this next year, the No More Humbug piece of work, because it never actually probably went to stakeholders to train their staff who are working constantly because they couldn't differentiate between what was culturally giving and cultural abuse.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because of course, giving in our culture is very commonplace.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so staff needed to have the skills and the and the confidence from other Abrinal trainers, or just people facilitating, you know, this knowledge and the findings of this report to them in a way that gave them the skills and confidence to then deal with community to protect elders from being taken advantage of.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's so complex.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's many layers to this because there is a generosity of spirit that we've got in our elders as well.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because culturally, people have to take care of their family and their clan and their groups and stuff.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: But because you know, society has changed and different things have come in and alcohol and drug dependency is also there, people have changed.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're desperate, if they've got an addiction, and the most easiest person to get the money off is the grandparents.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because their pension has come in and they regard that they're an easy target and then they're misusing them and abusing.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so sad to me that with culturally informed resources like that created by Abringham businesses like mine are not taken further or not adopted or not recognized by governments that have responsibilities to protect our elderly people.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's sad.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and people, you know, need to take a look around and see uh Abringham people who have the ability to recognize where those gaps are, create resources, and then promote those resources and use them in a way that brings a benefit to our community.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well yeah, for sure.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean you've definitely explained that very well because I think I've lived in Achim Lee for 20 years, but and I've only been in this position teaching adults for the past five years.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know just how prevalent financial elder abuse was.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there's parts where I've sat across from several different people in all three communities where they will say to me, Oh, can you help me change my PIN number on my phone because my grandkids are taking my phone and using up all my credit and my data?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at the start I'm like, okay, I can see how that would happen.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's been another, I guess on the other side of the spectrum, you know, I've had a lady in one arm point where she was, can you help me change my whole banking and accounts because I've got somebody, one of my family members, my grandson, going in and taking money and I've now got no money until when it's actually payday or whatever.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so tricky because A, I'm a non-Indigenous person and I don't want to come across as being disrespectful, but I do want to be able to help them and say, look, yeah, you know, what can we do to do this?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best way going forward in helping to solve this problem?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: The resources is just the is just a starting point to be able to say, hey, look, let's go through this, let's read this, but continually educate elders and community members as well.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so complex as well because what in one of the findings was that elders also need their family members.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll be the last person to report their family member to police.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because they also need that person to pick them up the next Thursday to go shopping.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, true.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: They also need them to take them to the hospital.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So then they're not likely to do this, but, you know, to report I mean but we this is where we need service providers to actually recognize it and be the ones to maybe hold, you know, some of these um abusers um hold them to account a little bit.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that no more humbug that animation particularly have you actually watched that Emma?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I thought it was cool.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because even the Bali people translated into their language in one on point.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was amazing.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's how prevalent this issue is around Australia.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: You could translate that to so many different languages have that played in communities and everybody knows all about it.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when we first shared that it was went wild.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: People were sharing it nonstop.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Every time we launch it it you know reminds people again how bad the situation is you know and and everyone's feeling for our elders who are vulnerable and who like I said are so generous.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like well honor them now.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Take care of them now.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah for sure.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well thanks for sharing that you know listen what's next for you?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's next for Natasha Shaw?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: What's she up to?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well I'm just busy running my own business but I'm also busy being an advocate for uh women in business but in that Emma I'll also say to people out there who are listening be your own advocate be your own voice you know be be someone who talks on behalf of your own interest don't leave it to other people all the time they can that people have their place sometimes but also look for your in in in your own interests advocate for yourself do what's right for you pursue the dreams that you have in your heart and uh that's the most important thing that you can do.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay couldn't have said it better.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Listen for your rapid fire questions here I'm just gonna go straight into it.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: First one where do you feel most comfortable as in what's a place for you that's calming it feels like home?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: My house.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes so I make my house my sanctuary okay I'm busy during the week I'm out and about and sometimes I just need to be on my own I need to be in a nice quiet soothing place that's my house and uh that's the way I recharge and re-energize for the next day.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay nice um if I was to get say a bunch of your friends Natasha's friends and say choose three I love asking this question choose three words to describe you what three words do you think they're gonna they're gonna say about you they're gonna say hopefully about me that I'm very upfront yes and straightforward I'm very passionate for sure and I'm very sincere about the work that I do I believe in it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay and that's can never be understated because a lot of people don't do that and you can tell that you do.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Last one if you weren't doing your main job now is it something else that you would be doing?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know what I'd do Emma I'd be a florist are you kidding yeah you know why?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: No because I love beautiful things I love beautiful colour and I love beautiful scents.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah I would be a florist you're so funny as in I thought you seem to be in your this to me right now running your business helping other women yeah empower themselves by becoming financially independent but more so business savvy women yeah to me you've you've definitely found your calling and then to be a florist yeah no offense to florists I've got friends in the florist yeah but I guess that makes sense this is your passion you know why you know why because when you're in this space for such a long time as I have been it's actually really tiring.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah I can imagine it's really draining it's really tiring and and sometimes you get you can be enticed with like what could be a job that could just be a little bit more chill.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Chill yeah and that is a florist and I joke about that I joke about that you know but yes um I don't know if that's real or not but I would I do actually like doing floral arrangements and I like I said I love colour.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love I I buy flowers all the time.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I pick flowers all the time.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um lastly who would you like to give a shout out to I ask all my guests to do this at the very end of the episode to give a shout out to a woman or could be a collective of women you know group who have inspired you that you really you know either admire look up to shout out.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anyone you could think of?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I think people would know very well that Kankawanagara my auntie uh Olive Knight is probably an inspiration for me.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's just a person who can be local but she can also be global.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah she's an amazing lady.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's her name?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um Olive Knight.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Olive Knight okay she's an inspiration to me she's just a talented lady that you know has done achieved a lot despite adversity in her life but I also want to say that there are many women Emma that I've met along my life's journey who have overcome enormous adversity always inspired by ladies women who are overcomers who don't let tragic things of the past ever hold them down and they're moving forward and they're continuing to be uh the best version of themselves they're reaching their full potential they're inspiring people and I'm very fortunate to know probably lots of ladies in that category so I can't name them all.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes but that's who I love.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay so I love that.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I love that too.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Listen we've had the best conversation we could just yarn all day I reckon we could but I know that you're a busy lady and I appreciate you coming and seeing me here in Kanana and I just want to say thanks again for being on the podcast.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah thank you very much great to chat wallelux for listening to She Said It Out Loud.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you took something away from today's episode I would love to hear from you.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Don't find me on Instagram at officially Emma Young and hit follow so new episodes land straighten your feed.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time for more real and honest stories from legendary women