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SMNTY Classics: The Feminization of Self-Care · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steffone
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: never told you a production of Buyheart Radio. Okay, So
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: we are in well into the new year, which blows
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: my mind, and we've been talking a lot about the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: good and the bad of resolutions, especially marketing around resolutions.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: You recently had an episode where we even talked about
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: this briefly. But I want to bring back our episode
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: we did on the femininization of self care because this
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: is a very like at the beginning of the year,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: self care is a big thing of it, and I
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: have gotten a series of headlines that are you know,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: clearly directed towards women. But we've talked about this before,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: but in our show Inbox, we get a lot of
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: cold emails. Some of the are very funny. Especially love
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: when they make the mistake in the name part. I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: love that you live for that. I also love when
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: they kind of threaten you where they're like, you don't
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: respond within five days this offer is I'm like what.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love when they don't know what we do
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: and just assume that by the title they know what
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: we do and they just make this random Yeah. Those
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: are my favorite.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I do get a kick out of them
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: sometimes and for anyone who does those, I know, like,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: we're not making fun of you, we just get some
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: that are very comical.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: It is. I used to do that actually for another
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: job I did. Yes, it's work. So yeah.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: That one dude though, who was like, you really need
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: a note about how women are ruining the boat.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: They're ruining, women are ruining things for women.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, but I have been getting some that are kind
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: of self care for men and it's very comical to
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: me and how they phrase it where it's still in
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that kind of like very stereotypical manly man.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Like take care of yourself, but look what doing it like,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: I'm just.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So perplexed by this whole thing, so in that vein,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I wanted to bring back this classic episode, so please enjoy.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And Samantha and OW come to Steff.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: I've never told you protection of iHeartRadio.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So for today's question, Samantha, I'm not sure you'll know
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the answer, but do you remember when you became familiar
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: with the idea of self care?
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: You know, I honestly don't think it was until recently
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: that I learned of this. And when I say recently,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: the idea and concept of self care was not something
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: in my Christian upbringing. Sure, so that was not something
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: especially as a woman who was supposed to be the
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: caretaker of the nurturer. That's not a thing. For my mother.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I definitely never saw that from her. She's constantly going.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: She is still constantly going to this day and she
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: is sixty five. So for me, I don't think it
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: really came into play until I literally had a panic attack,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: anxiety attack that shut me down for a week in
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: when I was working as a child abuse investigator and
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I had a panic attack in the middle of Longhorns. Yes,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I did, to the point that my friends were like,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: are you okay?
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Are you okay?
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Like coworkers and they're like, don't look at her, don't
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: look at her, because then you made it worse, right,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And so it wasn't until then, so out of college
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: in my first job, that I truly figured out, oh,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to kill myself through doing too much and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: not taking care of myself because I'm putting the responsibility
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: of the world on me. So I feel like it
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: really wasn't until about two thousand and six, so pretty
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: mch a long time that I understood the concept without
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: knowing the term, right, and that included a lot of
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: hiking and exercising, and that was my form of self care.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, I'd already started therapy, but
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: that was trauma related. So self care is really different
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: from delving into trauma. Yeah, as we all know, as.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: We all know.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: People who listen to this show. Certainly, I actually don't
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: think I knew about self care because I feel like,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: you know, you know about it in terms of taking
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: care of yourself, but the term and the idea of
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: like prioritizing it and that it's important, I don't think
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I knew until twenty seventeen.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked about it.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Before on the show in several different instances.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: I am really bad at it. I think a lot
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: of women are.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So even when I was like, Okay, I'm going to
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: do this self care thing, my attitude around it was
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: the opposite of what it needed to be. It was
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: like another check box, right, that made it at another
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: stressor and oh I have to do this thing. Yeah,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: so we are going to talk about that, but I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: it's still something I struggle with.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, I think for me, Yeah, the term
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: was not self care. It was mental health day, which
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: I know we talk about in my industry where I
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: came from, with especially with like government jobs or service jobs.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: We talk about mental health days and trying to get them.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: And it's so frowned upon in that industry. Like they
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: tell you to do it, they tell you to do
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: it right, they tell you to shut off your phone,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: they tell you that, you know, you take you a
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: week of vacation, and a few people have, and I
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: love and admire that, And I think few people have
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: because they had to and it like they had families
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: or whatever whatnot, and it caused a lot of problems
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: in marriages or problems with their children because a lot
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: of people would put their job first. But we were
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: told to take our mental health day, but made sure
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: to be told, don't say it's a mental health day,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: tell them you're sick. It's just kind of that level.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: So for the longest time, and I know think people
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: think it that way still, that term is really really
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: it's definitely become a little more of a fad. The
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: term not necessarily a practice, so to me, is kind
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: of a newer idea and it does feel really selfish. Yeah,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: to say you need that.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, So we're going to talk about that that feeling,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and today we're also going to talk a lot about
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: how self care has been feminized, how seen as sort
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: of this purview of women, and it's been in the news.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: A lot lately for a variety of reasons.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: But I did want to bring this up that Pinterest
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: recently announced guidelines to I guess, foster a healthier environment
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: on their platform, to be kinder and to be more
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: positive in general, which I find interesting because Pinterest.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: To me, there's a lot of.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Great things that can happen on Pinterest, but I see
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the negative of almost that like wishful. You know, your
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: pin board if I want to be what is that
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: called inspiration and you want to be this thin and
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this and this and this out like
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: that perfect life that you build, Okay, unhealthy.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not really into Pinterest, so but I'm definitely
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: seeing the boards and that sounds horrifying because also people
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: can look at this.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Right they can, but you can put it on private.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I think all of mine are on private, except for
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: my random nineties board.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: I was going to a nineties theme party. Now shut
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: with costume, of course, but all my liked what you'll
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: find out soon enough, you.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Know what that makes me paining. Let's not take it.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I know, I know.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: So back to this Pinterest thing is they have this
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: creator code that says I agree to be kind, check
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: my facts, be aware of triggers, practice inclusion, and do
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: no harm, which I'm curious how they will reinforce those.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: But we're seeing more social media platforms try to do
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: these things, which is something else we've.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Talked about a lot.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: And I remember when I first came on as a
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: host of this show, some people would write in and
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: say why they didn't like trigger warnings, why they thought
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: they were like useless and actually harmful, and I would
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: argue back, like my side of it. And I feel
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: like it's shifting towards people being more aware of why
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you need to think about those sorts of things.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, honestly, that's kind of why we how
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: that conversation about Trauma Series began, everybody was so leaning
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: to oh my god, everybody's so PC, they're so sensitive,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. No, but this is why we need
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: these things, because it has for our entire lives. We
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: didn't have this, and I really wish we did. Yeah,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: this is okay to have those warnings, but why it
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: was important and why we need to respect them. But yeah,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that's interesting to see because we have kind of gone
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: all back and forth and back and forth of is
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: this a problem or is this a solution or is
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: this adding on to the problems, And it's kind of
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I'm really glad to see that it's sticking and it's
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: becoming a thing, aren't you.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember in particular, one person was a
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: professor and they wrote in and they were like, I
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: just feel that giving trigger warnings it means that topics
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: that need to be talked about won't be talked about.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I hear you, but I think
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean I won't show up to whatever lesson.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: It just means I'll show up knowing I need to
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: be prepared for this. And I, obviously you and I
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: don't think that doesn't mean don't talk about something. It's
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: just giving people that like warning if they need it
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to take care of themselves. And speaking of let's do
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: a brief definition like we like to do what it
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: is self care.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: According to the World Health organization. It is quote.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Self care is what people do for themselves to establish
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and maintain health and to prevent and deal with illness.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: It is a broad concept, encompassing hygiene, general and personal nutrition,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: type in quality of food eaten, lifestyle, sporting activities, leisure,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: et cetera, environmental factors, living conditions, social habits, et cetera,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: socio and economic factors, income level, cultural beliefs, et cetera,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and self medication. This can include things like yes, nutrition, hygiene,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: or seeking medical care. It is often described as something
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that brings you joy. And this definition is pretty old.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's from nineteen ninety eight actually, and it's
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: been updated and various outlets like the World Health Organization.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: To me, this makes sense, but I think of self
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: care as a much more like find something, yeah, that
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: brings you joy and do that thing, right.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: But I do think that large.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Definition that makes sense as well.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Some have put self care into categories like emotional self care,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: taking dedicated breaks, physical self care, getting enough sleep, eating well,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: and spiritual self care, which can include spending time in nature.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Some break it down even further into temporary versus enduring,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: so like a one time self care thing or something
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: that is an ongoing self care thing. And also I
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: really recommend looking up.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Actually it's not. I don't know.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I thought it was funny, but the World Health Organization
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: has a self care hippopotamus diagram, which did bring me
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: joy and I did laugh quite heartily at it.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I love hippopotamus, so even.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Though they're quite dangerous.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Samantha, I'm sure I also like many other things that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I would rather not hang out with you. It's fair
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: just saying so. It can manifest many ways, like writing
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: or journaling, meditating, yoga, hiking, listening to music, stretching and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: crafting a long bath with some wine one of my favorites.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Taking time on social media, which I've yet to be
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: able to do, enjoy a nice cup of coffee, a
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: facial allowing yourself to say no or cancel plans, which
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I'm a pro at happy hour with friends, which oh
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: my goodness, we've gotten vaccinated so we can do that again. Yay.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Steel safely, of course, and basically a way for you
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: to make space to relax, check in with yourself and recharge.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: And as an introvert, I definitely have to do this
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: on a consistent basis, self care goes hand in hand
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: with mindfulness, of being aware when you're engaging in unhealthy
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: habits or behaviors and asking yourself what triggered that?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Right and quarantine has made self care more difficult in
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways, which sounds like that doesn't make sense.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: But if you're thinking, but all I've been doing is
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: watching Netflix on my couch during the pandemic, isn't that
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: self care?
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Why do I need self care? It does not necessarily.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Count unless it's a mindful decision to take care of yourself.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It doesn't really qualify as self care. It might be
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: a coping mechanism. But if that's all you're doing, you're
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: buying and mind won't thank you for it. No blame,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: no shame at all. There is an end in my
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: couch that was not there before this quarantine. Oh it's
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: just an oddspace to navigate our thoughts on self care
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and productivity when you are confined inside.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: At least that's been my case.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I've definitely given a lot of thought to mindfulness, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I think I've gotten better at it. But by getting
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: better at it, I've learned I have a lot of
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: other issues that I need.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: To get better at.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I think this is the problem with reflecting too much
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: on yourself. You're like, well, let me check in. Oh crap.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: There are so many things, especially for a person like
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: you who's on the go all the time. For me
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: talking about the Netflix thing, to not think about those things.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I consistently watch the same things over and over and
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: over again, so at least I can just drift off.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: But it's all the time. And for me, the practice
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: of self care is actually meditating. I've talked about the
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: commat before, and I've talked about how much I enjoy it,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: and I don't use it as often as I like,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: meaning daily, But when I do, it is a self
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: awareness of knowing, Okay, I need to do this to
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: focus a little bit. That's not Netflix, you know, And
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: so I think, yeah, definitely, But having those moments is
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: very RESTful to me, to be able to sit and
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: not do anything and just hear nice water sounds.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, Also those tubs are like, why can't I
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: do this all the time? What is going on?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: And like you said earlier, Samantha, though self care is
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: often painted as selfish or indulgent, it's really important to
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: our health. Research shows practicing it promotes better health, longer life,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: less stress, higher self esteem, and more productivity. Actually, not
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: practicing self care can have negative impacts on your mind
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and body, leading to things like burnout, not just professionally
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: but personally, and we've seen a lot of conversation about
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: this recently in the activist space. It can also be
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: costly in terms of doctor's visits that might be necessary
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: if you're not looking after yourself, or even the loss
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: of work when it comes to burnout.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Right, and also with burnout, we could also talk about
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: the new term is fatigue, and we were talking a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: lot about now because we're talking about COVID fatigue or
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: quarantine fatigue or any of those things and try to
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: go back out. It's a whole thing. So yeah, it's
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: definitely something that actually helps you care for yourself in
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: a way that seems selfish, but it's actually not. And
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: the thing about self care, it's not just about you,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: but how you impact the other people in your life
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: and how you can serve your community and do your job.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: As the importance of self care has been largely recognized
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: in many ways, it's been co opted, yes by beauty
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: companies and feminized. Of course it has. And if you
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: search for self care kits, you'll see and I will
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: say this because I actually try to find one for
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: a friend who is going through a really hard time,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: and oh my goodness, you see a lot of small
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: related items and chocolate, and the entire time I'm like,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she likes to do any of things,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: like Michael likes to ride motorcycles and you know she
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: likes to go to target practice. There's no need for this,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: don't get me wrong. If you love it, that's great too. Absolutely,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I love chocolate. Give me my chocolate. If you specifically
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: search for men's self care, it's almost always black and
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: red accented grilling stuff and or alcohol, which, by the way,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: women like alcohol toos. But that's not always a solution
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: for self care and my illness. Just put that out there.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And grilling is great. Grilling is great. If you like that,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: great spall stuff is great. Once again, love that. But clearly,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: this is a space, like many others, that has been very,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: very gendered, to even the point to say the words
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: like mental health day it seems weak, and so people
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: don't want to say it when it really does not
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: need to be in a lot of ways. The gendering
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: is unhealthy.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and more and more people are getting
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: in on self care. From twenty fifteen to twenty twenty,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Google trends indicate that searches for self care doubled. But yeah,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: there is this unhealthy gender split, and we'll get into that,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: but first we're gonna pause for quick break for a
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. And we're back, Thank you, sponsor,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: and we're back with self care for men.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: When I see this, I keep one say, just for men.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Like the hair product, Yes, I mean that's a space
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: where the companies have tried to like masculinize right self cares, like, hey,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: manly man, smelled good, so you can get cute lady
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: over there.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Right, look at this gray bottle is obviously for you,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the dark gray and only.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Clear with the red top almost always yeah old spice.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Really They have specifically brought in a woman to tell
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: her she can't use it because it's not for her
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: for their newer products, right why.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Because it smells too nice. So she's like, that's obviously
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Right right, But he's saying, no, it's mine, don't touch it.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm can do that, y's whatever product is available.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: So men are not as involved in the self care
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: space as women, and there are a couple of reasons why.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: One reason is that there are more entry points into
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: self care for women, whether it is Friends of yours
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: or magazines or Instagram, it's general more accessible and acceptable
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: for women. Some of that is the beauty industry trying
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: to capitalize off women, no doubt, but it is more acceptable.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: In our very warped society.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Taking care of yourself is sometimes viewed as yes, a
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: weakness or selfish, and because we view women as the
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: quote weaker gender, it's more acceptable for them to do it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And beauty was a space that was already dominated by
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: women in a lot of ways, so it was an
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: easier transition.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Not that all self care is beauty based.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Not at all, but a lot of it when we
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: see it advertised, a lot of it is. There's a
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: lot of dismissal of self care as being for snowflakes,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: are vappish women, indulgent women, things like that.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Right, which is hilarious because when we look at the
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: job industry and we talk about the working from home,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: how it's doubled women's workflowd and yet we want to
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: say this is weak makes me laugh again. This is
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: a big deal for a lot of reasons. We've talked
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: in previous episodes about the rates of mental health issues
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: and suicide for men. American men are three point five
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: times more likely to die by suicide than women, and
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: men are more likely to delay help if they seek
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: it at all, and they typically don't have as strong
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: of a support system as women. While self care obviously
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: is not going to make these things go away, it
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: can be an important part of someone's mental health. But again,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the Internet seems to indicate that self care for men
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: is generally not taken seriously or outright mocked as weakness.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: And of course, again this is kind of that conversation
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: of self care has been kind of hijacked by the
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: beauty industry, and so therefore that type of level of spae,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: massages and going to salons so feminized that men cannot
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: be associated with that.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we know, even.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Though they should.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: If you want to do that stuff as a man,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: it should be acceptable.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Massages are sashes are one.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, they freak me out on one level, but
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: the end.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Is always endemic.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Has kind of care yes, yes, it's gonna take a while.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: And then we can talk about the hypersexualization of the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: fact that massages are a double entendre right when it
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: comes to referencing for men. So that's a whole other conversation. Yeah,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: that I hate just to put that out there. And
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: when self care does exist, it's often hyper masculinized, even
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: in proponents of it use a lot of words like
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: manly and masculine and all those stupid words.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I read several of these articles that had a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: lot of uses of manly and masculine, and this really
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: is I think it's easy to dismiss, but this really
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: is a huge part of what we're talking about when
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: we're talking about like toxic masculinity and mental health, and
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: it has it ripples out and touches all kinds of things.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: But there was a part of me that was almost like,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I this feels like the weakness to me that someone
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: has to pander to you and be like, hey, manly man,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and you'll still be a manly man if you like
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: do this thing, and I'm not like I don't there's
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: not a weakness there of like recognizing you need to
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: take care of yourself. Right, and I get why these
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: articles are doing that, but it just feels very sad
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: that this is the point that we're at, right.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, and then when we talk about self care,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of it is done in isolation. Yeah, and then,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: as we were saying previously about how oftentimes they don't
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: have support system. When we see people talking about self
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: care for men, whether it is having a step of scotch,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: sitting by yourself in your lounge share looking out the window, like,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: that's the idea of self care. And that's not always
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the most healthy either, the whole like the private den,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: the man cake, it's all very isolating, and to have
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: time with men is to be with the boys, but
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: that's not necessarily for self care. Once again, and so
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: it's kind of that question of why are we so
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: determined to isolate men as well as to look down
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: on women when they do need support, When everyone needs support.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: We know this, we know this live, yes.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: And I do. I didn't want to put in here.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: America is not the only place, by any means where
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: this ideology exists, and because of the pervasive attitude, there
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: are frequently more crisis resources available to women. Right before
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: we recorded this I found a really fascinating and upsetting
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: article from Australia about a very similar thing of high
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: rates of suicide among men but not a lot of
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: resources dedicated to giving them help. So that's another issue,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: like on a even a governmental level. And when you
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: think of in the past of men being breadwinners and
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: that idea of like the scott the mad Men, you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: it's almost sexy that you are alone with your Scotch
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: in a dim lighting why your family is like you
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: just exactly so if you look at that idea when
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: being a man basically meant working all the time and
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: not really making time for your family, self care doesn't
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: fit into that.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: It's anathetical to that whole idea.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: And we've talked about that on the show about particularly
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: here in the United States, the idea of a workaholic
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and how it's in fact been painted.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: It's such a good thing when it is unhealthy.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And obviously times have changed from like the mad Men era,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: but a lot of that toxic cultural stuff is still
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: baked in there. We haven't gotten rid of it. So
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that's a part of this whole conversation. I did see
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: when I was researching this some sites calling for men
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: to prioritize self care, but.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: They did it.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: A lot of them did it by blaming women for
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: feminizing the space. Basically that because women and female influencers
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: that they got a lot of blame dominate in quote
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: self care, they've kept men out and that men need
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to get in and take it over, which is wild
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: A lot of they can't coexist, like no in any
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: way right, so it has to be us versus them,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and it literally becomes the whole man's playing situation of no, no, no, no,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: let me show you how we're going to do it,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: and this is how we're going to do it, and
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: it's our space. Don't touch it. Yeah, how Darius? And
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: maybe they can talk about that being with like video
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: gaming or any of that and being like it used
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: to be comfortable. Now women are doing it too, and
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what, I know, where is this divide that
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: it has to be one or the other? I don't understand.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Of course, we also have a lot of pushback with
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the whole We're losing our masculinity, we're losing real men,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: So we have to claim the space in a different
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: manner to take back what is out right which is
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: any attention. I guess.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I mean that whole perceived loss of power and and
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: we've talked about that before too, of the kind of
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: feminization of the Democratic Party in our country and the
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: masculinization of the Republican Party and the Republican Party very
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: much being like no snowflakes, while at the same time
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: being extremely sensitive, uh, cancel culture.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: That's a different thing I did.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I was reminded of that Gillette commercial where they were like, dudes,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: it's not cool to mistreat women, which you can argue
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: back and forth about when companies do that the benefits
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: in the town sides.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: But people were so upset about, like, how damn you
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: tell men we can't mistreat women?
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Ridiculous anyway, that's I don't remember that commercial. Oh God,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: remember this commercial.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: It came out I think.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: It's the twenty nineteen Super Bowl, and it was just
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: a you know, commercial about like it's not cool to
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: make these comments to women or a cat callar you know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: sexually assault someone not cool, and people freaked out about it.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: God damn, you say I can't assault someone.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: This is very like loose memory.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: So if people are like, actually it was about this
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I just I just remember that what we're talking about
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: has tried to been tackled in age let commercial, and
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: so that's where we're at.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, speaking of commercials, obviously we see this in
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: beauty hygiene projects a lot. Usually a big yeah. It's
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a big muscular dude selling this idea and that he
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: uses X y Z product and he is the doodliest
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: of dudes, usually in a humorous manner. Of course. I
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: think the yoga commercial comes to mind. I'm like, what,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: And then the food. Everything has to be bigger portions
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: or bigger sizes for the hungry. Okay, cool, cool cool.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: We talked about the old spice and I'm still trying
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: to figure out what's happening there. They're not letting that go,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: and we know AX try to turn it a little bit.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's worked well for them. Has
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: it worked well?
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, but knowing them,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say no. But that's a very acts.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Try to be all like, I'm a sensitive dude. This
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: is the smell I have. I think maybe I'm thinking
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: about this wrong. It's been a lot of time since
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of commercials. My favorite is want
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: there it is. That's my favorite. I like the dessert commercials.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I still bought to that. And then there are some
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: areas traditionally viewed as self care that men do tape
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: part in, especially when it comes to physical looks. Everybody
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: loves a good trim beard. We know this. However, this
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: is frequently more to me the standard and less about
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: taking care of themselves, you know, maybe being mocked constantly.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Like the whole level of metrosexual came out and everybody
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: was very either into it or not do into it.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: So the lumberjack sexual came in as well, which is
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: kind of along those same lines. I just find that funny.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Do we have that for women?
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: What metrosexual level?
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I don't think we do.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: It might be worth investigating whole episode on. Yeah, I
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: don't think we do. I think you are either. It's
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: like the flip of I guess being slightly more masculine.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know, right.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I think that's the whole level of needing to identify
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: men as manly or not their sexuality, that we have
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: to know their sexuality, whether or not is benefits for
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: whatever reason. Whether so if he's introsexual, that means he's
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: heterosexual but has style right in that sense, So we
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: have to know, okay, okay, just because he has style
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean he's gay. We must classify this, which is
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: a whole level of homophobia in the yeah, that we
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: could talk about, which again kind of goes down to
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: this whole gender idea that we have to label it
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: and make sure we know that something is masculine in
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: order to prove manliness. Yep, and at the detriment and
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: the health of everyone.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely a layer of homophobia involved in all
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: of this.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Despite all this native stuff, men's self care market it
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: is growing. According to Allied Market Research projects, it will
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: be worth one hundred and twenty two million dollars by
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. That's not necessarily a good thing, but
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I guess it shows that at least companies they're making
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: movements in those areas capitalism, capitalism. Indeed, we didn't want
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: to talk about self care and women for a little
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: bit as well. But first we're going to pause for
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and we're back.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: So a lot of people have written and spoken about
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: self care when it comes to women, us included, but
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: we did want to talk about it a little bit.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Over at Huffington Post, Lindsay Holmes wrote, self care shouldn't
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: be reduced to a fleeting activity or dispensable product. It
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: shouldn't even just be considered a wellness phenomenon for women.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: It's a difficult but necessary act that helps us survive
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: in a world with work demands, family pressures, duties at home,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: rampant incidents of sexual harassment, a relentless news cycle, financial worries,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and more. Inner reflection takes time and energy resources we're
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: already lacking.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Self care is hard work.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I wanted to include that quote because I think people
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: forget when we're thinking, oh, it's this selfish, indulgent woman.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: It is hard work, and it's something that you have
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: to prioritize and take the time for, which in itself
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: can be difficult when you do have all of these
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: things that she listed in more. I think a lot
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: of people do view it as sort of a hippie
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: dippy wellness phenomenon, and absolutely companies have capitalized on that,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: and some people do treat it that way, But at
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: its core, that's not what it is and that's not
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: what it should be. Right Religiously, it was a whole command.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: It was a whole day.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Whether we're looking at traditional Jewish cultures and or just
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Western Christian ideas that Sunday is Sabbath. You know, people
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: get very upset about this sometimes, and some people don't
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: take it seriously at all, however you want to say it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: My parents got upset when alcohol sales happen on Sunday
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: and they're like, what's the world's going to But it
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: was a religious thing and it's somehow changed for a
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: lot of the cultures. And not that you have to
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: do it. You have to set a date. It shouldn't
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: be a command by an overlord, essentially, for the lack
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: of better words, But it was there for a reason.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and talking about the fact that most of
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the times, for women, this is the first thing to
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: go out the window if you have to take something
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: off your list, this is it and we know this,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: we know this, which again part of that is if
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: we're not doing something, then we're not doing it right,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: and that has this level of guilt. It is this
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: idea that productivity is the morality of your life, point blank.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And a lot of us measure success by productivity, whether
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: it's how many hustles you got, how many things are doing?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: What are you've gotten by a certain age, Like I
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: still have it in my head that I am not successful.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I am not adulting because I did not hit these
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: markers that you and I talked about so many times.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: The other day I think it was very fair somebody
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: called me an adult, which I am, but I was.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, I mean just listing all the things that
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I haven't done. Yeah, it's one of the first things
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: that I do, like, oh no, I haven't done this
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: and this and this and that does not and then
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: comparing myself to others who are fifteen years younger than me,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: twenty years younger than me, thirty years younger than me
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: doing it better, and I'm like, what have I done
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: with my life? But I mean that's the kind of
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: thing is we define ourselves that way, which is detrimental,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: yes in the end.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: And I you know, back to good old capitalism. I
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: think there's a big part of it actually is that
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: idea of the workaholic and that that's somehow a good thing,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: and that is what you measure success by. And then
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: on top of that this idea, especially in the United States,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: that if you hustle hard enough, you will succeed no
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: matter what obstacles, systemic obstacles.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: Are in your way.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: And in that way, you're blaming yourself, well whether you
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: know it or not, for issues that are really beyond
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: your control.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: And others blame others. They can't understand the systemic level
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: of why it can't be like this.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: So it's like.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Cautionary tales like early Bird Get the worms. All this
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: bs has really been ingrained into our heads that we're
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: not successful if we do not follow these things and
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: have all of our savings and all of these things
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: saved away so that we can enjoy the easy, relaxed life,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: which is very quickly disappearing for a lot of our generations,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: that whole level of social security, we know, that financial
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: stability that doesn't exist where we talk about no living wages.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Starting as a freshly graduated college student with some loans
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: under my belt because my parents could not it's not
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: one of those that had everything saved away from me,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: so I had to pay everything as best as I
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: could and that included some loans, including the fact that
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: I had to live on campus, all of those to say,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: and then going to a job that only paid me
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: twenty five thousand a year to live by myself, to
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: take care of myself for the first time ever. And
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: that doesn't include the fact that they took away money
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: for insurance. They take away money for all of these
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: benefits that I did not understand, you know, like all
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: of these things. And to the fact that we are
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: supposed to pretend like we know what we're doing. And
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: then realizing that my loans went from this to twenty
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: times that because of something that was out of my controls,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Like what the hell just happened? This became more than
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: my tuition for the four years, right, And to say, oh,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: but you should have done it better, you should have
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: planned ahead. How do you tell a nineteen twenty two
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: year old to plan ahead?
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know, we that's a whole separate conversation,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: but we really don't train people for that kind of stuff,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: like young people, and then we're like surprised when they
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: don't know what to do, Like, okay, you're expecting this
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: eighteen year old to make the wise financial decisions.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Great, But that's the thing is that that means you
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: have failed because you are not to this level. But
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: you better not take care of yourself. Yeah, because you
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: will never get to that level.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: And I think part of that too, which we're going
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit in a second, is
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: self esteem related. Like part of self care is you
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: have to say you're worth the self care, right, And
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I think that's hard for a lot of people, and
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I think especially marginalized folks. If you are living in
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a country that has these systems in place, are just
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: social events that remind you that you're not valued as
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: much as say, straight white guy, it can be hard
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: to tell yourself like, no, I am and I deserve
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: to take this time. And just because I didn't understand
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: a very complicated financial system at the age of eighteen
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I don't deserve these things.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I still don't understand.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: And Yeah, Since domestic work is still taken on more
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: by women, and studies show women have less leisure time
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: men by about three times, it can be harder for
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: women to carve out this time to take care of themselves,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: and perhaps doing so comes with increased guilts and there
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: is a difference, which I do want to say here,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: between meeting basic needs and self care.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: So if you're saying.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, I've carved out the time to get enough
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: sleep tonight, that's great, that's not really self care.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: It can be.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: But like if you're talking about a very that's just
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: your norm is you don't get enough sleep, that's not
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: really a self care.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: That's a basic need that you're not meeting.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: And around the world, women don't have access to health
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: care at the same rates as men, which does impact
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: self care.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: So that is another part of this conversation.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Right, and we know the pandemic alone has affected that immensely, immensely.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Even though again we've talked about the fact that you know,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: we're at home, it's okay, we're we can do this constantly.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: That's not true. We know this. We already talked about
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: again mentioning how the fact that majority of the household
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: work falls on women in general, as well as the
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: stress of being quarantined and stress of living in a
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: pandemic world causes a lot of that. And then when
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: you can't escape, so when your usual methods of escaping,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: such as exercising with wherever you go to exercise and
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: or traveling, or even just being able to walk out
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: the door, that is highly affected as well. Again, we
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: talked about the fact that a lot of the money
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: that was slowly going towards women to help with care
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: has disappeared because other issues have come rise and we
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: know that when it comes down to it, it's secondary
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: for women to get the care that they need. Yes,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: around the world, that's a whole different conversation. And recognizing
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: that you, again as any said, that you actually are
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: worth that, that you are worth the time to run
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: away from your family for two hours. Maybe I don't know. Yeah,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: it's okay, I mean I think for me, and this
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: is very very general. We went to your beach house
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: and I have not been so excited. And it was
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: like six seven, eight months after quarantine began.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because we were I think we went. It was
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Dragon Gone weekend, Labor day.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: And it started in Mark and I hadn't left and
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: I was losing it. I was losing it. And just
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: being able to be in a car to drive somewhere
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: was such a phenomenon at that moment that the minute
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: we got in the car and we started driving and
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: like realizing we were on a trip, pulled something from
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: me that was it so like to me, like stuff
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: like that, being like, oh wow, being so scared, and
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: you and I talked about this. We are so scared,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: especially as podcasters, as people who are sort of you know, seen.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: I guess this is the best way to put it.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: We're so scared of saying the wrong things, or doing
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: the wrong things, or being hypocritical and being really cautious
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: because of course we don't want to talk about that
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: was a privilege. Had I not known you, I would
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: have never been able to do that and felt like
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: a privilege. It was amazing and doing things like that
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: is a privilege. But that's the other part to that
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: is like I don't feel like I can because I
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: know other people are suffering, So why am I allowed
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: to do this? And that again that builds onto that
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: self worth and again being a basically the whole different level.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: You should be able to have that, and it's absurd
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that we don't. Being able to be on a living wage,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: you should be able to have that, especially when you
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: work your ass off trying to provide for your people
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: that you love. End of story. But things like that
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: like the traveling that I got to do for the
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: first time in eight months was such a glorious moment
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: that felt like self care, but felt so guilty that
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I was doing it.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've thought about that a lot lately because I
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: think a lot of women do this, a lot of
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: marginalized people do this. But I do that a lot
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, is it worth I don't have
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: it as bad as this person or whoever, so I'm
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: just being a big baby.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Or whatever it is like because I don't have it
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: as bad.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And I think that is a part of what holds
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: people back when it comes to self care, is that
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: guilt around that whole idea. And when we're talking about
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: social media as part of this, it has been a
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: great space for normalizing self care. But if it becomes
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: competitive or performative, that's defeating the purpose, and a lot
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of self care can get caught up in reinforcing tropes
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: around beauty and weights that. Going back to what I
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: was saying at the beginning about pinterest, to me, that's
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: what a lot of pinterest is is people kind of
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: showing off that there because they eat this, and they
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: exercise this much, these this is how they look in
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: these the clothes they can wear, and that can be healthy.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: But if you turn it, it's so like a fine line.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: And that's a problem I have a lot is I
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: turn it into something that is not self care anymore.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: It is like a competiti And speaking of that, I
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: think there's a hijacking of self care to you in
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: this self help productivity workspace that's basically selling it as
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: a tool to do more work, which it does help productivity,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: but it's not about that. It's not about doing more
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: work necessarily, and it's not some magical way to become
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: a CEO.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: If you're like good, if you really crush it when
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: it comes to self care, it's not that's not what one.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Look. I admire and respect the people who are on
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: here talking about their fitness and getting these workouts and
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: then having the whole why aren't you doing it? That
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: makes me want to throw my phone across the room.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Ye tell you that? Like I see that constantly, and
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I want to be like because I'm depressed and my
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: anxiety is really high, and all I really want to
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: do is curl up in a fetal position under my
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: blanket while my dog sits on top of me until
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I suffocate. I mean, that's some of the level that
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: I'm at. But the thing is, if it's for them,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: that's great. But to turn it around and accuse people
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: of not being able to hit your mark is really damaging.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: And when you do that as a way of getting
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: likes or getting promotions, what promotional benefits from other companies,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: that's damaging. And what you're doing is causing more harm
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: than anything else. And I say you, I'm just saying
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: the general in all aspects, because let's be honest, this year,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: it's been a year of collective trauma. I want to
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: talk about this later. It could be a whole other
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: episode about women in collective trauma, especially in the marginalized communities,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: and we're going to talk a little more about the
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: intersections of this. But the level of trauma that has
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: happened this year, the fact that anyone got up, congratulations.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: There's a debate about drinking water. It's absurd. If you're
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: doing it, wonderful. If you're not, you do you be healthy? Though?
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Be healthy? And again, we have to recognize how self
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: care looks different for people of color and for the
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: LGBTQ community or any other marginalized groups. Let's be honest. Politically,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: what we've been seeing is horrible, and I think we're
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: coming through the upswing, but the constant back and forth,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: the constant back and forth, it's traumatizing. I maybe it's
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: because I've been so focused and been so isolated that
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: that's all I focus on. But these past few years
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: feel disgusting, whether it's I've lost friendships, I've lost family members,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: I've lost trust in people, like there's so much that
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: we have to talk about, and we have talked about,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: and we continue to talk about, and then we put
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: on people's shoulders to explain it's been a hard damn
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: year period and self care may just mean I'm not
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: going to talk to you today, i might not see
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: my family for a year. I'm okay. Things like that
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: have happened. And then the amount of death and the
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: amount of heartache that we've seen on a consistent basis,
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: and maybe it's just because we're seeing it for the
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: first time, also because our administration allowed millions of people
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: to die. All of those things way, So when we
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: talk about what's happening in the marginalized communities, when we
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: look at all of the politics that are happening even
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: today with the trans community, LGBTQ plus community. I just
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: saw a new law allowing for organizations to discriminate against
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the LGBTQ plus community to allowing them to be part
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: of the group. I see consistently the bills that are
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: trying to block that community from adopting, which I have
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of feels on. We know this, We consistently
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: see the bills, the injustice that has happened on all
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: of the levels, MATS shootings, just this freaking week alone
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: has made me want to vomit. This last month has
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: been awful. So when we talk about self care, it
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: may just very well be I don't want to talk
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: to anyone in the story and that's okay. So to
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: try to place this whole line of buy this, do this,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: be this is damaging in itself. I'm done.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: And when I was researching this, there are a lot
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: of resources out there for that are for specific marginalized groups.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: And what I was reading from people who.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Were writing about it, and they were talking about the
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: value of community support and camaraderie and finding those things.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: So certainly, if you need those resources there out there
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: also much bigger conversation, but the whole mass shooting thing,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: like some of that is what we're talking about here
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: with men can't get mental health care.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Much bigger conversation.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: We also need to talk about accessive and cost here
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: because of course, when companies got involved, prices went up
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: for things items that have been in this self care space,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: like like skincare, beauty. It can get really pricey, especially
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: when celebrities and influencers get involved, which more and more
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: male celebrities have been getting involved in this. I noticed
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: not an option for everyone and may turn people off
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: who otherwise would participate in self care. That's what they're seeing,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: that's what they think it is. Again, beauty does not
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: a self care make this in a lot of things,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: but for a lot of people that is I have
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: friends or that is their thing of like doing the
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: facial and just relaxing, or if we talk about physical
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: activities that aren't possible or comfortable for everyone for variety
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: of reasons. Just keeping those things in mind too of
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: accessibility and yeah, of course there are predatory products out
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: there marketed as self care that are like guaranteed to.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Get rid of your eyebags or whatever. It is. That's not.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: My friend calls them baggies.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: I bag these, I bag ease. I love it. Yeah.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: And for those who have been able to be successful
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: and maybe publish a book or do some things we kindle, friendships, whatever,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: that's phenomenal too, and you should be allowed to celebrate.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: That's the other part again, is that guilt level. Don't
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: point out people and say you're not doing this like me.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Don't do that. Let's just say that, but celebrate what
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: you have been able to do. Celebrate the good things
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: in your life. I mean, I do celebrate the fact
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: that I am able to do this instead of being
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: in the world, which for my old co workers who
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: are continually seeing trauma on the outside and then continually
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: dealing with trauma in their workspace, that's a lot. Yeah,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: and I'm very grateful that I am in this space
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: where I can process it in a different manner now.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: But it's not lost on me that people are doing
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: these jobs and people are doing these things. People are
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: doing this work, and it's important that we allow for
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: them to celebrate the things that they have been able
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: to accomplish. I just remember one of my biggest things
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: being in that field just constantly thing I just need
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: one small victory, like crying about it and how big
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: of a deal it was, whether it's to know that
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: I helped a kid rehabilitate and get off of probation
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: in general, like I was able to be like, we're
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: going to work this out, We're going to do these
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: things together in the story or hooking them up and
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: able to get them an internship, to be able to
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: make money like stuff like that is phenomenal. We're not
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: going to talk about the incarceration system, which I have
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of guilt about in general. But the thing
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: is there's a collective amount of trauma that is happening,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: and we need to be able to celebrate the things
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: that can be celebrated and for those who have you know,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: children in their lives who were able to have babies
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: and are living in a place of health, and that
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: those who are seeing someone for the first time, that's
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: that's wonderful. Congratulations and we celeb write.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: That with you. Yeah, yeah, that's it. I'm glad you
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: said that, because I do.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I think that is another aspect of this as people
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: feel like they can't share happy things right now. I
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: know I don't That's why I'm like not on a
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: social media hardly ever anymore. I don't want to post
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: some of that stuff, but I can't post it the
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: world is on fire.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I like self deprecating stuff, like when I tripped and
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: trusted my ankle in a living room. But for those
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: who are asking, how, yeah, how do we even go
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: down this road? Or should we even go down this route?
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this and thinking I need
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: to start doing this, you don't have to. But if
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: you want to, or maybe like I need to do better,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: how to go about that? Again, you're better stepping from
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: everybody else's just be healthy. So here are some tipsy.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Choose an activity or activities you enjoy or that relaxes you,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: such as playing fiends and trying to beat your coworkers
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: like Lauren who has yet to reply to my banter.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: If that makes you feel better, then do it.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: So yeah, get some activities that you like that are healthy,
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: and then narrow it down to one at first that
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: you want to start putting into your daily routine.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: So here we're talking more about incorporating it more regularly
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: as opposed to that sort of one time event. Then yeah,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: try implementing it every day for a week. After that
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: week's done, think about how you feel about it, repeat
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: with another activity, switch out activities, or just reflect on
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: how you want to go about it and if it
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: worked for you and why it did or didn't work
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: for you, and if.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: It didn't, it's okay, it is moving on.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: It is okay.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And speaking of I did want to briefly talk about
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: this because I, like I said, I'm really bad at it.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: And I was working on this outline the day after
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I got my second dose of the vaccine and I
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: ended up getting having a pretty severe reaction, i will say.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: And I was.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: In bed and I was shaking so hard that the
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: bed frame was rattling, and I was sweating.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: It looked like I had gone swimming, and I.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Was so cold, and I felt so bad, and I
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: was typing like women.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Made to do better itself, not that, but essentially, like
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: how can women be better at self care?
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: And then I was working away and Lauren, my coworker
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: and friend, she texted me and said stop working. And
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: then she sent an email out to like everybody I
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: was supposed to work with that day to record and
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: she said, we're not recording.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: She's good, and then you showed up. You were so
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: kind and you bought me fun. But I felt guilty
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: about it because I was.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, no, I I know you wouldn't let me
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: like I'm doing it. Damn it fine, I'm fine. This
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: is part of myself here. We've talked about this before,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: like for people like me, I love doing things like that,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: so I have to do it. So let me do it,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Let me do it.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I kept being like no, no, no, And then I did
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: have the thing where I was like so proud of myself,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: which is very unhealthy because I was like, wow, I.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: Feel terrible, but look at how much work I'm doing.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did nothing. I did nothing. We purposely
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: didn't record. We changed the date, and I was like,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: you know what, this is going to be a rough
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: one for I don't know, maybe it could be a
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: rough one. I've seen stories, and of course my reaction
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: because we ended up getting our shots at the same day,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: they were very different, like I was nowhere year as
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: bad as you were. We had. I had this little
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: bit of chills and enough fever, but that was quickly gone.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: But I was like, I'm just going to check in
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: on her, make sure she's alive. But we're not talking
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: about work. And I purposely did not ask about work.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: And we did bring some noodles for you, because you know,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: this is all about getting together. And that's the other
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: part to this is you have to recognize when your
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: body is telling you something. Yeah, because it's telling you
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: something for a reason. Yeah, And that was, hey, stop it,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: go to bed, damn it.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: It's surprisingly difficult to do that.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like as women, we are especially I can
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: just speak. In my case, I have distanced myself so
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: much from my body that it's I can't basic things
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: like sleepy.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: And hunger, and I don't. I'm working on that. Yeah.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: I on the other hand, I do recognize it, but
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: it's according to what I have to do. And if
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: there's just like I felt guilty because I have a
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: feeling you were working and so I didn't know what
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: else to do. But I'm like, yeah, but I'm sleepy
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: and i'm tired, and we can do this later. If
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: I do things, I don't want to just laid back out.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm done, I'm good. I will do that.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: But there are days that I'm like I have to
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: do more. If it came down to helping someone else,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: then yeah, I will do it. But if it comes
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: down to it's just me, I'm not gonna die.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: So you and I clearly have work to do as well.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, listeners, I have better at it, and like the
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: fan FicT, writing fan fiction is something I do hiking
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: whenever we can go, when I can go back out
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: comfortably because I know I could have always, but I
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: was never comfortable. That is a big one for me.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: So it is something that I have been mindful of
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: and have been trying to be better at.
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: But yes, long ways ago.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Still well, listeners, we would love to hear about your
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: self care.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: What do you do or are you any good at it?
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Are you terrible at it?
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: You can email us our emails Stuff Media mom Stuff
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks It's always to our super producer Christina.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I Never Told You. Propection I Heart Radio for more
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visits I Heartrado app Apple podcasts,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: or I may listen to your favorite show speaking
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah,