Latest / Jennifer Rothschild Show / #4: Developing Emotional Endurance with Leslie M. Bosserman

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#4: Developing Emotional Endurance with Leslie M. Bosserman · Jennifer Rothschild Show

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Whatever that circumstance is, feeling a little bit of that emotional
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friction, that stress, that tension actually fuels our performance and our
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ability to become better until it tips us over a point where we
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kind of cascade down and cannot emotionally recover.
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So one of the skills that I teach in emotional endurance is how to expand your
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inner capacity to handle what's hard, to use your stress to your advantage,
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And actually limit the stress that's not helpful.
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Hey, hey, hey, welcome to The Jennifer Rothschild Show.
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This is Jennifer. I'm so glad you're here.
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You've gathered with me because this is where thoughtful people come to grow.
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And today, my friend, it is all about emotional endurance.
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And today, my guest, Leslie Bosserman, is going to share with you the mindset and
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the skills that you need to face the hard things.
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Coming out stronger, wiser, and more grounded.
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Doesn't that sound good?
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Now, here's the thing. She's using psychology and scripture.
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She has developed this framework for building resilience.
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Oh, you are about to get practical tools to help you develop
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your emotional muscles.
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I need that. You need that.
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So, I'm really glad you're here.
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I hope you've had a good week.
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It's been a really great week for me.
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You probably already have figured out, 'cause I've put a little social media out,
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I have been in Greece and Turkey and having a wonderful time,
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learning so much, and just now getting a little jet lag as I'm ending.
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But anyway, that's why I need a little endurance today, of the real kind.
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But I always need emotional endurance. And let's be honest, of course we do.
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You got your stuff. I got my stuff.
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We all got our stuff.
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Many of you know that I'm blind.
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So just the ordinary things in life take a lot of endurance.
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And it's not just the physicality of doing the hard things, y'all.
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It's the emotional mindset that tells us we can do it and we're not gonna quit.
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And on those hard days for me, when I think I just can't do another
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thing, you know what I tell myself?
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Jennifer, You have agency. You can quit.
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You can quit whenever you want, but don't quit today.
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Quit tomorrow.
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And it's amazing how if I just give myself a little time and choose to endure a
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little longer, and I keep putting off quitting another day, I never quit.
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So maybe that's something you can think about as you begin to listen to Leslie.
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Now, she's a new friend.
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She founded Lead with Intention, where she coaches and trains people on the
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science of emotional Emotional Endurance.
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And that's the book that we're going to talk about today, Emotional Endurance.
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She happens to be from Northern California,
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and she's a mom of 3 little people.
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Talk about needing a little endurance.
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So let's grow together. Here we go.
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[INTERVIEW BEGINS] All right, Leslie, your book title caught me,
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Emotional Endurance, because I, I just was so curious about the title
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because it's also this invitation, because I'm like, yes, I want that.
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And then the more I thought about it, I thought, well, what exactly is it?
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Okay, so I want us to start with that.
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What is emotional endurance, and is it different from resilience?
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Are they the same things?
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So let's start with an understanding of what emotional endurance is.
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Absolutely.
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So this is a question I get a lot, and it's one I actually had to sit with
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and pray with, because when I When I started teaching and
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training and coaching on the science of emotional endurance about 15 years ago,
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there's so many synergistic qualities that resilience plays into.
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So the framework for emotional endurance includes resilience,
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but it doesn't stop there. Mm-hmm.
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It can kind of start there, it extends it.
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And so when I took this meta construct of developing your emotional endurance,
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so throughout your whole life, we define it as a dynamic inner capacity
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to grow and overcome hard things.
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There's a much more succinct definition in the book.
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But if you think about inside your body and your life, you have so much capacity
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to grow, overcome, change, persevere.
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You are not stuck in your circumstances.
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You are not defined by your trauma.
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And all those things matter.
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So when we practice emotional endurance, there are skills that we can learn fueled
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by the faith and the truth in the Bible that will allow us to grow this
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inner capacity throughout our life.
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Resilience is one part of that.
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Okay, this is really interesting to me.
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And so our audience are faith-based.
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These are Christian people who are listening.
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So talk to us why this emotional endurance, and not just resilience,
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not just stopping at resilience, why does that matter when it comes to our faith?
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Oh, so good.
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So I actually started writing this book for a more mainstream audience.
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And I was praying over it, because I do coaching and training and
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speaking for a number of different organizations as an entrepreneur.
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And God And the Lord just knocked on my heart and said, this is my message,
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and it's going to be used to help believers and also those who might
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have drifted or fallen away from faith to come back with a level of commitment.
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And when I think about emotional endurance as a practice, anyone can practice it.
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You don't have to be a believer to practice it.
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And we were intentionally designed by our Creator to embody it and
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to continue living it.
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And so the spiritual purpose and our eternal hope is so fueled into everything
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I believe and everything I wrote about.
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And if without that kind of taproot in the whole tree of emotional endurance,
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or the plant of emotional endurance, it's hard to grow beyond that.
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And it's all about growth.
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Okay, and, and I love that because I'm all about growth.
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So, that's part of the reason I was so attracted to this.
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So, as I'm thinking about Emotional endurance.
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Okay, then here's kind of where I, I pause, because how can somebody, Leslie,
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grow in emotional endurance if they're not emotionally aware?
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And so then how do you become emotionally aware?
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So I'll just put a caveat here.
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My book is only 208 pages.
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I'll cover everything that you'll need to know about this topic.
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And There are so many experts on emotional self-awareness.
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That's a concept I absolutely bring into the intro and the first principle.
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So it might help to just briefly go over the framework for emotional endurance.
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So yeah, let's do that.
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Yeah, I look at it as 6 core principles.
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So principle 1 is called fortitude to fail.
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2 is resilience to rise.
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3 is hope to heal.
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4 is courage to change.
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5 is energy to engage.
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And 6 is purpose to persevere. Hmm.
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So with those 6 principles, I introduce 3 skills per principle.
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So 18 skills total that teach you how to practice this.
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So it's super practical, like, and you don't have to have any level of expertise.
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There's no starting line for practicing emotional endurance except
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exactly where you are right now.
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No qualification to begin except a willingness to learn.
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And so, in that first principle, going back to your question,
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I focus a lot on understanding emotional self-awareness, so your feelings aren't
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continually hijacking your thoughts and your behaviors and your
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habits that turn into your character.
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So I create a framework for how God designed us to be emotionally
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feeling beings, and how he also told us to take every thought captive, right?
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And so when we tie in scripture with science, It just proves the
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Bible is truer than ever.
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And so what I love about how this book has come about, because writing
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and editing is a whole process in itself.
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I originally had submitted something that was probably twice as long.
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And so you're getting the best of the best, we'll just say.
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Good.
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I also am a super busy mom of 3 young kids and entrepreneur.
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So I knew from an audience perspective, whether whatever stage of life you're in,
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whether you're a grandma, taking care of all your grandkids and just
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trying to find a minute to yourself, or you're also a busy parent or someone
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who is doing 2 jobs, being able to have something that you can
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pick up and read for 3 to 5 minutes and gain something from that you can then
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put into action is super important to me.
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So you don't have to read it in order.
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That's the other kind of secret I tell people.
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That's helpful.
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Yeah, you can pick it up and, and get something from it,
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but really understanding who you were designed to be in the eyes of our Creator,
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as someone with emotions, and that just because you're feeling something
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doesn't mean it defines you fully.
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I say that emotions are— they're messengers, not marching orders.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so, they teach us things about ourselves, but we don't have to follow
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them like a sergeant in an army.
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We can figure out what to do with them to actually fuel our resilience
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and our perseverance. Okay, that's so good.
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And they do feel like they are the general in our life giving us marching
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orders because they're so powerful.
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And so that's really a good distinction to make.
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And I love that too, Leslie.
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What a warm invitation.
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You're saying you don't have to have a full emotional awareness to start.
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And I think the beauty is you will grow.
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Sometimes we act our ways into feelings.
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Sometimes we feel our ways into action.
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I know it can happen either way. Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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But I love that you're just giving us something very pragmatic.
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That's so safe. So that's a lovely thought.
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And as I'm thinking about the list you gave— and by the way,
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I want us to go into some of those, um, in a minute, of those 6.
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But as I'm thinking of them, I'm thinking of how many of those,
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um, have friction involved. Okay.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so for me, I, when I have recognized my life,
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I look at the hard things in my life and I think, you know,
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um, those are usually the things that I choose to make my, my buddy, my ally.
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I mean, they're an uneasy ally sometimes, but like stress.
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Instead of stress being the enemy, I try to make stress my ally.
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Okay, so I'm curious, how does that hit you?
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And do you think we can use just any kind of challenges in our life to strengthen
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our sense of emotional endurance or emotional muscles?
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So I'm a strong believer that God calls us to whatever we are able to
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handle with his support.
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So not without him, but when we are approached with setbacks,
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hardships, struggle, stress, it is an invitation to learn, to commit,
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and also to set healthy boundaries.
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So there, I was talking with another colleague about this interesting cultural
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dynamic, and if it's too hard, just don't do it.
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I am a believer in the exact opposite of this.
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I strongly feel that if it's challenging, lean into it enough to understand it,
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to see what that next step is, or even that now step, maybe not the next step.
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Hmm. Mm-hmm.
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But what's the now step?
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What's the invitation to learn just a little bit more?
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It doesn't mean you have to know the answer to begin.
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It means you have to be willing to step in.
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And I use this beautiful story of when the Israelites are crossing the Red Sea.
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Now, the first time in Exodus 14, when Moses, he— the waters are parted,
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and they left, and they went into the wilderness.
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And the wandering in the wilderness is sometimes how we feel.
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When we're being led by something that we didn't choose or didn't know about, right?
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But we're following, we're obedient. Hmm.
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Now, on the flip side, when Joshua is leading the Israelites into the
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Promised Land through the Jordan, the Bible actually says he had to step
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in the water before the waters parted.
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And I hold that because so often hardship feels like we have to take the first
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step without knowing how deep it is.
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Without knowing if it's going to part, but with the trust and the faith that God
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would not lead us to a place for failure.
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Okay, that's so good.
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And it's so counterintuitive.
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It's so counterintuitive, right?
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But that's what it challenges us to say.
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I am not God. Thank God I am not God.
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And I can have a faith in something bigger and smarter and more powerful than me.
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And I have free will. Yes.
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Both of those things are so amazing to me.
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Yeah, that's so good, Leslie.
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That's such a good paradigm to be reminded of.
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And so it makes me wonder, are there just some things like some
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obstacles and they might be spiritual obstacles or just internal obstacles
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that make this hard for us, like that make emotional endurance even more challenging?
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So I think it depends a lot on your temperament.
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So I can only speak from my lived experience, but also
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as an entrepreneur who works as an executive leadership coach with
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clients from all around the world.
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And I have 3 young kids.
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And I'm also a preschool director, which is, again—
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Wow.
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Wild juxtaposition, right?
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Because those skill sets actually dovetail quite nicely, working with young children
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and their parents, and also coaching.
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So, I look at human development as an opportunity to continually
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refine our character.
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So, whenever I'm focusing on helping someone move from stuck to started,
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or face a setback with a perspective that isn't defeat, right?
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So we're looking at being hopeful, being optimistic, being at least willing to try.
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Emotional endurance is sort of the fuel that helps you get there.
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It's the toolbox that allows you to pull the skill out that you need to
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figure out what your next step is.
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But one thing you mentioned, Jennifer, is stress, and I wanted to
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just use this as an example.
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Mm-hmm.
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100 years ago, there were 2 psychologists called Yerkes and Dodson that analyzed the
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relationship between stress and performance.
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And we often find that if we feel stressed, we want to back away from
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something because it feels too overwhelming.
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But what they found actually is stress fuels positive performance,
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but only to a point.
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And we probably have had these experiences, whether you are birthing a
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child in labor with a purpose, or you're playing
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some athletic game and you're really like focused on the field,
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or you're doing something creative and you're in flow, but it's hard,
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but you're sticking with it, right?
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Whatever that circumstance is, feeling a little bit of that emotional
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friction, that stress, that tension actually fuels our performance and our
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ability to become better until it tips us over a point where we
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kind of cascade down and cannot emotionally recover.
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So one of the skills that I teach in Emotional Endurance is how to expand your
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inner capacity to handle what's hard, to use your stress to your advantage,
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and actually limit the stress that's not helpful.
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Oh, okay, that is so practical.
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Right there is why 98% of us need the book, because we all live there.
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And I had to live through it.
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I had to figure out, like, how do we actually do the hard things?
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And, you know, whether you're— again, I, I'm a mom who has a
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child with special needs.
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There are times where Life is very messy and hard and absolutely not
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what I would have chosen. But it's beautiful and joyful and crazy.
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And I've made so many connections because of that.
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So we look at some of the circumstances that we never chose,
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but we're in, and we're intentionally choosing to be in them to grow.
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And that's really what emotional endurance is.
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It's saying you might not choose where you are.
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It might be something that you were born into or you experienced,
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yet Paul even wrote to all of the churches of the New Testament
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while he was in prison, right?
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He didn't choose that.
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So, we often can overcome our circumstances
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with a mindset of emotional endurance.
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Well, you said mindset, and I think that's where, that's where it all is.
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It's not about what's out there.
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It's about what's inside and what our mindset is and who's guiding our heart.
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And as I hear Just a little snippet of your life.
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Preschool director, special needs child, 2 other children, coaching, teaching,
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all the things, girl.
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I think woman gotta be tired.
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Okay, so Leslie, here's what I wanna know, cuz I know you address it in the book.
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How do you manage your energy?
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And because that has to impact your sense of emotional endurance.
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Sure.
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So tell us how you do that and how we can do that.
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So I live a pretty dynamic life.
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I'm not saying my life should be a model for other people.
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It works for us, and we've designed it really intentionally based on what we're
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passionate about and how we feel called to serve our community.
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Yeah.
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So based on that, if you're either working 1 job, 2 jobs, 5 kids, 1 kid, 0 kids,
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whatever you have, like, I look at what are you able to manage
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with a level of engagement And fulfillment where you don't reach burnout.
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And so I call this margin. Okay.
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Um, Dr. Richard Swenson sort of popularized this.
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He has a book called Margin that I read 20 years ago, and he comes up with this
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formula for creating positive margin.
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You look at the load you have, all the things you're responsible for.
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Some of them are great things, some of them are obligations, some of them
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are really hard external circumstances.
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And then you look at the power, your resources, your time, Your energy,
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all the things that allow you to make life happen better.
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And margin is your amount of power minus your load.
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So if you don't feel rested, or if you don't feel like you have enough—
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I mean, there are times where I don't get enough sleep and I'm like,
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I'm going to be about 70% capacity today, maybe 60, maybe less.
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I have to be honest with myself and scale back what is realistic.
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Hmm. Mm-hmm.
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So looking at what is possible for me based on what I have here.
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And then if I am, let's say my load is heavier than my power
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and I'm in negative margin, who's my village?
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Who am I asking for support?
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If I feel so alone in this, which I can sometimes.
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Sure.
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When you have ownership over something, you often can delegate to
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people, but it's yours. Mm-hmm.
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So really looking at what are the structures I put in place where
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I'm not the bottleneck, where things don't just rely on
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Leslie being at— on her A-game.
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And also taking a regular Sabbath rest.
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So, that's something I practice my entire life.
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It's biblically sound. Jesus did it.
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It's good enough for him. It's good enough for me.
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So, having that time where I am— I don't want to say off
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because I'm still a parent. It's still—
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Oh, sure.
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A day where things happen, but it's not a day where I have to be
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strategically planning, book launch details or emailing.
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It's, it's a day of a different rhythm, a different pace, and a day to just simply
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abide as well and model that for our children.
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Oh, that's so good.
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Yeah, because you're right, it does model for our children.
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And I think Sabbath is very difficult if it's not a rhythm.
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You said the rhythm.
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I think that's so important because we are so habitual and our brains get used
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to our patterns and our habits.
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And even maybe just to start managing one's energy.
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If you don't already have some kind of Sabbath in your life, you create that.
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I think right there, I mean, you're right.
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And yet Jesus did it. God instituted it.
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It is good enough for us.
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All right, girl.
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You mentioned earlier that in your book you cover these 6
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principles, and they are— I love that they're grounded in
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both scripture and psychology.
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And of course, because any truth we find in psychology,
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we're going to find in scripture.
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I mean, there's just— the Bible is brilliant.
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And these 6 core principles help build our emotional endurance.
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And you said there's 3 tactical, um, strategies with each.
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Okay. So it's super pragmatic.
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So I want you to just to pick one that you think either
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is the one that most people you serve deal with, especially women,
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or the one that you have dealt with the most and kind of unpack it, explain it,
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and give us the 3 strategies, the 3 tactical ways we can manage it.
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Ooh, so good.
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So, I'm gonna pick one that is a little counterintuitive, if you'll play with me.
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I love it.
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So under Principle 4, Courage to Change, skill number 10,
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it's titled Say Goodbye to Someday.
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So about 15, maybe even longer than that, 20 years ago, I sat down and I
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wrote an original fairy tale.
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And the chapter begins with this fairy tale.
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I also did a TEDx talk back in 2024 and started it with this.
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So you can, if you want to hear me speak it, you can either listen to the
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audiobook, or you can listen to the really short TEDx talk.
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But what this whole skill focuses on is so often we get stuck in our shoulds,
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our coulds, and our somedays.
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And I use the metaphor of the kingdom of should,
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the kingdom of could, and the battles they have in our mind.
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And then so often we just want to go on vacation.
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We just want to leave it all. Yeah.
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Drop it all and go to the Someday Isle to vacation.
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And so that might be, someday I'll have more money and time.
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Someday I'll have a cleaner house.
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Someday I'll be able to sleep past 7 AM.
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You know, so you can pick your someday isle.
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And I, I use this as a bridge.
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It's a little bit comical at first, but it's so deep because it hits at our heart.
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Because oftentimes, we want to just vacation on this island
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that feels like, oh, in the future, things will be better, rather than saying,
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what is our purpose in the moment?
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Why, why is this hard right now?
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And what is less hard about it?
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When is it a little less hard or a little less bad?
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And how do you lean into that? Hmm.
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Instead of waiting for reality to shift and for -- to have a fruity drink in your
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hand and a big sun hat and no obligations.
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Because hopefully that will happen at some point, but that isn't reality.
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And in fact, if you ask most women or most people,
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if you could go and live in Hawaii year-round, the idea might be tempting,
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but I think it would be very lonely after about 2 to 3 weeks.
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Oh, wow.
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Unless you have a village and a community there, right?
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Because we crave something, but what we actually crave is having more
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positive margin to have rest and renewal built into our regular
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routines and rhythms.
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Whew.
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That is so good.
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I think, oh my goodness, I think we've all fantasized about the Isle of Someday.
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And, and, um, listeners, we are gonna have for sure Leslie's, um,
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TEDx talk on the show notes so you can go straight to it.
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Um, wow. That's, that's so creative.
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I love it.
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All right, girl, we're gonna get to our last question here, Leslie.
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This is all been so good.
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I'm highly recommending the book.
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I'm so grateful you did the hard work of writing it and editing it down so
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that we can actually consume it.
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That was actually harder than writing it, I think.
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But, you know, it's all about refinement, right?
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That's the growth goal.
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That is. You're so right.
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No, if people haven't written, I don't think they realize how hard
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editing is compared to writing.
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But that's what makes it shine.
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So I'm so grateful for the hard work.
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All right, So the Jennifer Rothschild Show is the place where thoughtful
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people come to grow.
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So my last question to you is, what is one practice in your life
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that has helped you grow or that is helping you grow that you
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could share with our listeners?
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So when I think about this whole framework of growth,
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I think the biggest thing that has helped me grow is staying curious.
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And I grew up in a fairly critical space where curiosity had moments to flourish,
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but I felt this constant pressure to perform and to overcome and to be better.
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And in my 20s, I had to unpack a lot of that when I finally
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went to college and kind of moved out.
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And that's probably what helped me develop my own emotional endurance.
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I joke that in my 20s, I learned the skills that I taught in my
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30s to other people and then wrote about now in my 40s.
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But being curious and having the ability when something doesn't go your way or
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something isn't working or you're just waiting,
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instead of jumping to this critical, resentful, ugly space, has been my
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number one thing that has helped me grow.
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Oh my, there was so much here.
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You know what I really loved?
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That principle of saying goodbye to someday.
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We need to do that, don't we?
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We need to just get unstuck from the should and from the could and
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just live your someday today. Just do the thing.
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And you know what else?
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I thought it was such a great reminder that feelings are not marching orders.
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Oh, 'cause my friend, don't they feel like it sometimes?
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They just feel like they're just bossing us around.
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But our feelings, they are not marching orders.
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They are messengers. And so pay attention.
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What are they saying to you?
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What are they— what are they pointing out in your life?
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Like, listen to the message, but don't let them be the boss of you.
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So no matter where this message has met you today, my friends, step into the
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water, as Leslie said, before—it parts.
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God is not going to lead you into failure.
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All right, you know you can find what you need at the show notes.
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So, I want you to go to the show notes, whatever platform you're listening right
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now, and that's where you will find her book, Emotional Endurance.
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We're gonna have it there.
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Plus, she has provided us some free downloads, which is so generous.
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They'll just get you started.
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And I will have a link also.
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You remember she mentioned her TEDx talk?
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I'll have a link to that also so that you can check it out.
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Plus, I thought I would have one more thing there.
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I've written a book called Me, Myself, and Lies,
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which I think will also help you with this, is what to say when
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you talk to yourself.
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Because sometimes we just have to be mindful of what's in our thought closet
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and how to get it cleaned out so that we're not weighed
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down with a bunch of junk.
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So lots of resources for you today.
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Aren't you glad you came?
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I'm so glad you came.
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Would you share this episode with somebody who you know needs it?
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Ask them to join us, because this is really where
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thoughtful people come to grow.
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And you know, if you've been listening to me for a while, this is a refresh.
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We were known as the 413 Podcast, and now it's the Jennifer Rothschild Show.
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But I really, really, really, really— hear that?
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Really, really want to know what you think.
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So would you please leave a review?
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I am happy for some constructive feedback, because my goal really—
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it might be called the Jennifer Rothschild Show, but my goal— Is to help you grow.
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is to serve you. I mean it.
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I want this to work for us.
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I want it to be a conversation that works for all of us.
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So please leave a review.
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Let me know what you're feeling, what you're thinking.
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And first of all, I must say this, whatever your thoughts are,
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I'm just grateful you're sharing them with me because I really want this podcast to
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be the place where thoughtful people come to grow.
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So thanks for being with me. Way to grow.
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See you next week.