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The Dubious Book Club Podcast Ep 4 - A Study in Drowning Part 2 (Preview) · Dubious Creatures Presents

• 0:00
  Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Dubious Book Club
• 0:01
  podcast. I'm Aubrey, and today we're
• 0:04
  going to talk about the second-half of A Study in
• 0:07
  Drowning by Eva Reed. And joining me this week, we've
• 0:12
  got a couple other dubious creatures.
• 0:15
  Say hello, dubious creatures. No.
• 0:19
  So. Yeah, this tracks.
• 0:24
  So we're going to start off by talking about the second-half of
• 0:28
  A Study in Drowning, chapter 10:00-ish to the end, and Oh my
• 0:36
  God, it's a doozy. It starts off like we ended last
• 0:42
  time with discovering the salacious photographs.
• 0:49
  I I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think that was where we
• 0:51
  ended off because I think it was, it was like Chapter 9.
• 0:54
  Finding finding Ianto's private spank bank, among other things.
• 1:00
  Yeah, he's got all the, he's got all The Dirty books.
• 1:03
  But then they found all of Amris's Ye Olde pornography.
• 1:11
  Yeah. And then also a couple of
• 1:14
  letters from Amris to he is again still yet unnamed wife,
• 1:23
  presumably future wife, none of which are particularly safe for
• 1:30
  work. So it.
• 1:34
  OK, here's the thing. Like I, I shouldn't make fun.
• 1:39
  Effie's been through a lot. Sometimes we have to find the
• 1:43
  the humor in it or to laugh and stuff cry at the.
• 1:46
  Same time, though, I thought someone was going to need to
• 1:51
  fetch her a goddamn fainting couch because she just has a,
• 1:56
  she has a visceral reaction to these things.
• 1:59
  And I know it's more about the fact that she built up Emery's
• 2:03
  murder. And as this like, you know, like
• 2:08
  the good one, you know, the enlightened artist in the midst
• 2:12
  of all of the in the midst of all of this, you know,
• 2:15
  depression and gloom and finding out he's just as sad and horny
• 2:20
  as the rest of us brought her back to earth somewhat.
• 2:25
  And then never meet Carrie Harrels.
• 2:28
  Yeah, so I I get it, but. Yeah, things do continue to just
• 2:38
  escalate at the the mansion. Yeah.
• 2:46
  And so it continues to be a creep.
• 2:47
  And Preston is like, yeah, we should probably, like, go and
• 2:51
  talk to this other writer who was a friend of Everest because
• 2:57
  they write a lot of letters to each other.
• 2:59
  And I think he might have been the actual writer of Angaret.
• 3:02
  Yeah. Just Colin Blackmar, who is, at
• 3:07
  least in Preston's perhaps not entirely unbiased opinion, not
• 3:12
  nearly as good of a writer. He's apparently only really
• 3:19
  known for one piece, which is an epic poem type thing called The
• 3:24
  Dreams of a Sleeping King, which is considered, well, let's just
• 3:29
  say it's considered a it's considered a national pastime
• 3:32
  for purely nationalistic reasons and leave it at.
• 3:35
  That, yeah, it's kind. Of like grade school.
• 3:40
  Yeah, they all have to memorize it.
• 3:47
  Which? Does love escapism?
• 3:50
  This book is full of so much escapism.
• 3:53
  Yeah, don't. You just don't.
• 3:54
  You just love sitting down with a book and forgetting your
• 3:57
  problems. Yeah, all the time.
• 4:03
  All the time President Fe continue to get closer and
• 4:06
  closer even though Yonto was trying to keep them apart.
• 4:10
  Yeah. Do we?
• 4:11
  Frankly. I mean.
• 4:14
  It'll make sense, it'll make sense in a moment, but when you
• 4:17
  have to physically get two children to leave room for
• 4:20
  fantasy Jesus with a gun? Yeah.
• 4:28
  He does. Sort of not really threaten them
• 4:32
  but stand in front of them while holding a gun and being like
• 4:36
  what are you 2 doing? That's pretty threatening.
• 4:43
  It's like, yeah, the I, I will say in retrospect, Ianto's
• 4:50
  probably the weakest character in the book, mainly because he's
• 4:57
  not really a character per SE. And I mean, we do kind of learn
• 5:02
  why he's not a character. We do like he.
• 5:06
  He really only shows up whenever Effie needs to be freshly re
• 5:10
  traumatized is the thing. Or to be foreshadowy and re
• 5:16
  traumatizing that that's those are the two scenes we get with
• 5:19
  Yonto. Yeah, and we also do learn a
• 5:22
  little bit more about Effie. We learned about, we learned her
• 5:25
  full name Euphemia, which is they is a Saint's name.
• 5:29
  And they say that a Saint's name is only given to a changeling
• 5:32
  child as to try and make them conform.
• 5:40
  Yeah. And so I, I, I like this aspect
• 5:46
  for a couple of reasons, partially because it ties
• 5:49
  directly into Effie's back story, but also because, again,
• 5:56
  studying drowning clearly takes a lot of inspiration from the
• 5:58
  Victorian era. And The funny thing about that
• 6:01
  is that for all of the cultural and technological enlightenment
• 6:05
  of the time, changelings, especially in what's now the
• 6:09
  United Kingdom, are we're still very much considered a thing.
• 6:14
  Yeah, they come up with the proper terms for that.
• 6:19
  Yeah, yeah, your child's acting out.
• 6:21
  Won't sit still in class biting you.
• 6:23
  Oh. Must have been replaced by the
• 6:25
  fairies. Goddamn.
• 6:27
  Fairies. Yeah, because clearly no child
• 6:30
  whatever acts improperly when their skull is still fusing
• 6:35
  together. What?
• 6:37
  No, that's crazy. You're asking.
• 6:40
  Entirely too much. Yeah, so it I'm not saying
• 6:44
  that's the only reason why there were so many abandoned and
• 6:46
  neglected children in the Victorian period, but it's part
• 6:52
  of it. Certainly, and also.
• 6:56
  Doesn't help that in the Victorian area there was, you
• 6:59
  know, oh you got ghosts in your blood, do cocaine.
• 7:03
  Working. Yes.
• 7:04
  You've got too much bad blood. We need to bleed you.
• 7:07
  Yeah, you. Just got to get rid of that.
• 7:10
  Excess blood. I think we might be a little
• 7:16
  past that era, but I'll keep it for the imagery.
• 7:20
  It's fair, yeah. Yeah.
• 7:23
  Laudanum, cocaine, all that stuff.
• 7:25
  Oh, you've got a problem. One of these 33 drugs.
• 7:28
  Here you go. Yeah.
• 7:32
  I kind of want to know what those pink pills are like.
• 7:36
  What would be the modern day equivalent to the pink pill?
• 7:40
  Like an antipsychotic Klonopin, yeah.
• 7:43
  Probably the modern day equivalent to the pink pill,
• 7:45
  huh? Do you want me to answer that,
• 7:50
  or do you want Aubrey to answer that?
• 7:53
  Nope. Anyway.
• 8:02
  Yeah. And yeah, we do.
• 8:05
  We do learn a little bit more about Effie's history and past,
• 8:08
  the fact that her mother had Effie out of Medlock and
• 8:16
  essentially she's never known her father because essentially
• 8:19
  her mother used to work at her grandfather's bank and when her
• 8:26
  mom got pregnant, he set the guy away.
• 8:31
  And then, you know, certainly Effie's mother attempted to
• 8:38
  abandon her at one point, left her by the river where one said
• 8:44
  you would leave for the fairies to take.
• 8:48
  Yeah, And again, I must point out, because between this
• 8:52
  recording and our last one, I, I did look up some other reviews
• 8:59
  of this book. And one of the, well, OK, one of
• 9:04
  the common criticisms that isn't very Internet is that the book
• 9:10
  is just kind of ridiculously grim.
• 9:13
  And I would refute that if I didn't know enough about history
• 9:19
  to know that, buddy, for vast majority, for about 49% of the
• 9:24
  population did. For a pretty solid chunk of
• 9:28
  history, this was just life. If you were not white or rich,
• 9:32
  your life was pretty shit, yeah. I'm not.
• 9:35
  Yeah, call me woke on Twitter. I don't give a fuck.
• 9:38
  This is just this was just how it was.
• 9:42
  Yeah, like. You know the first time she sees
• 9:47
  the fairy king. Yes.
• 9:49
  Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's
• 9:52
  necessarily I I get that it's technically a fantasy book, but
• 9:56
  I don't really see how it's a legitimate criticism to Cole.
• 9:59
  I Study and Drowning Overly dark when it's very clearly trying to
• 10:04
  evoke an actual time period. Oh yeah, Honestly very minimal
• 10:11
  alterations with a lot of the social mores.
• 10:14
  Yes, but yeah, very king, right? Sexy man King.
• 10:17
  Yeah, I yes and no. His description.
• 10:24
  Yes, very sexy. Unfortunately, his obsession
• 10:27
  with young children, I don't like that.
• 10:29
  Yeah, it's super creepy. It's very like turn off so.
• 10:33
  That's where you so that's where you draw the fucking line.
• 10:36
  Good to know. That's a good place to draw that
• 10:40
  line. I'm just saying it's.
• 10:41
  Really a good place to draw that line.
• 10:43
  That's like the best place to draw the line.
• 10:46
  I would take these protestations under advisements if your lines
• 10:49
  weren't drawn in fucking dry erase marker.
• 10:54
  That's a hard line for all my king friendly people out there.
• 10:58
  You know what that means? But.
• 11:00
  Yeah, no, this dude, this, this dude's a creep.
• 11:03
  Just to get it out of the way, this.
• 11:04
  That's a good creep. Yeah, takes takes her ring
• 11:07
  finger, so no one else can put a ring on it, which is why.
• 11:11
  Which is why we later, well, when we first met her, very
• 11:17
  notably, she only has nine fingers.
• 11:20
  This is why, Yeah, just not not a great time to be Euphemia.
• 11:28
  No, she's. She's really had at heart.
• 11:34
  Yeah, and naturally, naturally, nobody believes that she
• 11:41
  actually met the fairy king. You know, the finger rotting off
• 11:46
  her body, not with standing. And she spends the rest of her
• 11:50
  adolescent years being overly medicated and gas lit on a Yep.
• 11:55
  Very. Regular basis, OK, Yep.
• 11:58
  And we're moving and we're moving, and Effie is sad and
• 12:01
  we're moving. Preston's a good being and there
• 12:04
  and supportive I. Love Preston.
• 12:06
  I love Preston so much. God, he's such a good character.
• 12:11
  He does his best. He's like, I don't know if I can
• 12:13
  believe that fairies, but I believe you believe that
• 12:16
  something happened to you and I want to be there for you.
• 12:20
  Yeah, I think, I think it would have helped just a bit.
• 12:24
  It I think it would have helped just a bit if Preston wasn't the
• 12:27
  only, you know, non garbage human being within a 20 mile
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  radius of Effie over the course of the story just to maybe, I
• 12:40
  don't know, just to give a little variety.
• 12:43
  Yeah, but that's like like. It goes.
• 12:47
  Back to the historical thing, that's just kind of how it was.
• 12:52
  I know going back into the historical thing, I get it, but
• 12:55
  I like again, it. I understand why, I understand
• 13:02
  the context I but I, I don't know there there comes a point
• 13:13
  when character development just kind.
• 13:15
  I know this is going to sound a little hypocritical given what I
• 13:17
  just said, but there comes a point when character development
• 13:19
  turns into character masochism. So I appreciate Preston.
• 13:29
  This is a Preston appreciation zone.
• 13:34
  I appreciate what he does in the context of just generally making
• 13:41
  Effie have hope that not everybody's going to treat her
• 13:43
  like a human waste disposal for the rest of her existence.
• 13:50
  But I maybe would have liked to see her have more of a support
• 13:56
  system than just one dude. No, that would that would have
• 14:00
  been nice. But also also the the the
• 14:02
  isolation and everything plays into a lot of gothic literature
• 14:05
  trips too. I know.
• 14:07
  So like, again, I have to immediately, I have to
• 14:09
  immediately bring this up and then refute it because like, I
• 14:12
  get why, but my, my appreciation for the Dawn was clashing with
• 14:15
  my own personal preferences here.
• 14:17
  No, that's it's totally fair. It's been like, yeah, it would
• 14:19
  be nice if she had more than one person in her corner, but I
• 14:22
  understand by history and tropes she cannot.
• 14:27
  Yeah, so Colin Blackmar, Speaking of garbage people.
• 14:34
  Oh my God. Yeah, no, it's, it's funny.
• 14:37
  It's like Preston writes a letter initially.
• 14:39
  He's like, yeah, no, there's no way he's going to see us or
• 14:41
  anything. And if he writes a letter and
• 14:43
  it's just like, I would love to have you and your friends to
• 14:46
  come over and talk about books. And nothing else.
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  Nothing else. Nothing else.
• 14:55
  Totally innocent trip. Yeah.
• 14:58
  So they get to, they take a little road trip and they get to
• 15:08
  the Blackmar estate, which is very noticeably just garishly
• 15:14
  wealthy, which is an interesting contrast with Mr. Mirden's abode
• 15:21
  because, well, both of them are celebrated.
• 15:26
  Yeah, both of them are celebrated authors, but for some
• 15:29
  reason, you know, he's this dude who is arguably, at least
• 15:33
  according to Preston, who we trust implicitly, is arguably
• 15:37
  the worst writer. And yet he's living it up.
• 15:40
  Yeah. So they meet him and.
• 15:45
  He's. And he's vague and creepy and
• 15:51
  old old. Does insist that they stay for a
• 15:58
  party. Yeah.
• 16:03
  Yeah, like the whole I didn't understand giving them Brandy
• 16:08
  and not feeding them. I remember it got brought up as
• 16:11
  well in the book and I was just like, yeah, why would they do
• 16:13
  that? That's weird.
• 16:15
  That gives creeps vibes. Well, because that's what should
• 16:19
  do. It doesn't erase the creep vibes
• 16:22
  whatsoever. It's just, you know, alcoholism
• 16:28
  was not a thing yet. Either mincers a lot about like
• 16:33
  how he has many many daughters at least I don't remember the
• 16:38
  exact number, but it's like 3 I think like three daughters or
• 16:41
  something yeah and the. Youngest wasn't like the other
• 16:47
  daughters. And we'll learn why.
• 16:54
  Yeah, strap in folks. Yes.
• 16:55
  Oh. Yeah, this is.
• 16:56
  Where it's wild. Yeah, so they're, they're given
• 17:02
  this room to stay in. And this is like the first time
• 17:05
  where, you know, there's there's like a movement romantically
• 17:11
  between Preston and Effie because she asks him to stay
• 17:14
  with her because she's like having a panic attack, can't
• 17:17
  sleep. And so he just kind of, they
• 17:20
  just kind of sleep, sleep, just sleep together.
• 17:27
  I know it is actually just sleeping, but the way you
• 17:30
  emphasize that was like what they just slept.
• 17:34
  Don't just sleep. No, nothing else.
• 17:36
  Just sleep. Just a bit of premarital hand
• 17:39
  holding. Yeah.
• 17:41
  How dare it's. A very sweet scene.
• 17:44
  It's so cute, it's actually one of my favorite scenes in the
• 17:47
  book, especially when he starts speaking in his native language.
• 17:52
  Yeah, Oh my God. And we learned also a little bit
• 17:56
  more about Preston, his father, like how his father died from
• 18:01
  water on the brain. You.
• 18:04
  Thought the tragic back story wouldn't come for him too.
• 18:07
  Didn't she hope that you were mistaken?
• 18:10
  He's he's very he's very like sort of driven to prove himself
• 18:16
  being having garden. And that's not the right word,
• 18:22
  but I'm going to continue with it.
• 18:26
  But he's very proven and he's like, you know, and we get that
• 18:31
  moment. They have that connection.
• 18:34
  And the next day they're poking around in the room and they
• 18:38
  discover some letters underneath the bed.
• 18:41
  Old dusty letters that have been under there for a long time.
• 18:45
  Long, long time. Well, they did mention that no
• 18:48
  one had come into that room for a while.
• 18:51
  Yeah. So it was made believable.
• 18:56
  Yeah, but yeah, these letters certainly start to shine a light
• 19:03
  on certain things. Yeah, mainly that Mearden was a
• 19:10
  little was a little scamp and. Well, let's just.
• 19:15
  Say that Effie's parents were the only ones having
• 19:18
  relationships out of. Wedlock and it further makes
• 19:25
  them believe that something to do with the authorship of the
• 19:29
  book being Blackwells of some sort because they talk about
• 19:34
  delivering that Angaran will be delivered to Meredith.
• 19:40
  Yeah, Angaran, who is, well, at least as far as we the audience
• 19:45
  know at this point, is the POV character for the book.
• 19:49
  But now we are rapidly coming to the realization that Engarred
• 19:53
  might actually be a real person. Awesome.
• 19:58
  Like. Because I also love letters.
• 20:01
  Yeah, quite possibly also Black Bar's youngest daughter, who he
• 20:06
  effectively sold to Emory's. Who might be the woman in the
• 20:12
  photographs? Who might be the woman in
• 20:16
  Yonto's creepy attic? Yeah, yeah.
• 20:21
  Then they are given clothes and sent to a party.
• 20:29
  Oh boy. Yeah.
• 20:31
  Always a party. All of my social anxiety all at
• 20:36
  once. Just I hate, I hated this
• 20:44
  chapter not because it was a bad chapter, but because I was just
• 20:50
  because like it was hitting me where I lived in a big way in
• 20:54
  some aspects. The chapter itself does feel
• 20:57
  very claustrophobic with the how it's described it.
• 21:01
  Dies, yes. Yeah.
• 21:06
  And it's just all of these old creepy men were just hitting on
• 21:11
  Fe. I'm so sorry, Evie.
• 21:17
  We've all been there. It's awful.
• 21:19
  And then you know Preston. Preston steps up and like, you
• 21:27
  know, he's a fucking. Man.
• 21:28
  Yeah, protects her. It's so good.
• 21:34
  Yeah, I. Love president so much.
• 21:36
  I'm so. Sorry, no, you're, you're good.
• 21:38
  We all, we all appreciate him here.
• 21:40
  There was one benefit that I say with quotation marks to
• 21:46
  slapping. I don't even remember the
• 21:48
  fucking guy's name slapping. That guy's right in the self
• 21:53
  esteem and that was he. Blackmar was also there when
• 21:56
  that whole large occasion happened.
• 21:58
  And he mentions believe he mentions his daughter.
• 22:05
  Yeah. And how apparently something
• 22:07
  happened to her that Colin Blackmar immediately shuts down.
• 22:14
  And then just it's so SUS. It's yeah, Effie, we need to
• 22:23
  call an emergency meeting. Effie, I would like to hold your
• 22:28
  hand when I say a few things. First off, I love you.
• 22:32
  Second Mary Preston. I have an agreement with that.
• 22:44
  Yeah, put a ring on that boy. Because he he saves her, they go
• 22:50
  out and they're like, well, we've been, we need to at least
• 22:53
  dance to keep up the, the charade of what we're doing.
• 22:57
  And they dance. And it's a very good scene.
• 23:00
  And then I love the metaphor that she uses or she's like, and
• 23:05
  that's when I realized I was in a romantic or a romance novel.
• 23:10
  It's like, oh. Really.
• 23:13
  You just realized that? Oh girl, I get it.
• 23:18
  But. Aha moment, OK.
• 23:20
  Girl, I get it, but come on. That's me.
• 23:24
  I need those moments like. Oh, oh, oh.
• 23:27
  You actually like like like me? Oh fuck.
• 23:31
  Yeah, no, because, because Preston was acting so normal
• 23:35
  these last couple of chapters. I mean to be fair she it's not
• 23:38
  like she has good like connotations with her romance.
• 23:43
  I I know it's, it's the curse of it's the curse of the audience
• 23:47
  POV, but all things being equal, come on, girl.
• 23:51
  You know, I mean, she takes as much, takes a minute, she gets
• 23:54
  there in her own time and gets there.
• 23:56
  So like the big thing of why they were able to do this is
• 23:59
  that they they lied to Tianto and saying they need if he needs
• 24:03
  specific books from his other library and they'd be back in 2
• 24:07
  days. So essentially is they have to
• 24:09
  kind of rush home from the party and sort of during all of that
• 24:15
  happening if he has a panic attack in the car A.
• 24:18
  Bad one. Bad 1 and I believe this is like
• 24:23
  this is like a right around the time where it's like I I know
• 24:26
  the phrase that like that Preston says stuck out to me and
• 24:30
  I'm pretty sure it's right either before or after or during
• 24:35
  this car panic attack. It's the I'm not afraid to care
• 24:38
  for care about you, Fe. Oh, oh, that hurt me.
• 24:43
  I actually cried. I had to put everything down and
• 24:46
  I like I had to walk away. I was like off no.
• 24:53
  Oh yeah, it's. Really good at getting into like
• 24:58
  the gnarly bits of me. I didn't like it, but I loved
• 25:01
  it. Yeah, it definitely stuck out to
• 25:06
  me because I was, I was listening and I had to sort of
• 25:08
  like take a second after that scene.
• 25:13
  God damn you and your emotional torture porn.
• 25:19
  You love it. Warming up to it.
• 25:28
  Yeah, there's, there's the whole big thing in the car where, you
• 25:33
  know, he comforts her while they're driving and the big sort
• 25:37
  of connection between them. And when they get back to the
• 25:42
  estate, he stays with her in the guest house.
• 25:49
  That's the word I was saying. That's the word I was saying
• 25:51
  for. And that's where we get our
• 25:53
  like, one spicy scene of the book.
• 25:55
  And it's not even that spicy, but it's very sweet and very
• 25:57
  well written. So romantic, like Oh my God, I
• 26:04
  it was so sweet and so romantic. I give it a 10 out of 10 for her
• 26:09
  first time. That was sweet as fuck it.
• 26:12
  Was very good and very well written.
• 26:17
  Yeah. So of course, you know, they
• 26:22
  still got the the mystery of the house to unravel.
• 26:28
  And that leads us, perhaps inevitably, to the basement at
• 26:36
  the Meerden Estate, which, if you'll recall from our last
• 26:42
  recording, is flooded. Because why make anything easy?
• 26:47
  Can't. So they think that there's
• 26:51
  probably, if there's any clue to what happened to anger, it's
• 26:54
  probably down there because clearly Ianto doesn't want them
• 26:58
  to check down there. Yeah, he keeps the key to it on
• 27:02
  his person at all times. On like a little like thing
• 27:06
  around his neck. And.
• 27:09
  You know, also super dangerous being the basement is flooded.
• 27:12
  Yeah. So, Long story short, she lives.
• 27:19
  We still got a few more chapters to go through.
• 27:21
  So I suppose. That's not exactly surprising,
• 27:25
  but yeah. Prepping for a massive storm
• 27:28
  coming. Yeah.
• 27:33
  So foreshadowing is a narrative device in which, yeah, this book
• 27:40
  is a lot of things, but subtle is not one of them.
• 27:42
  No, it is not subtle. Yeah, anyway, so they managed to
• 27:48
  retrieve a box from the flooded basements, that ones you know,
• 27:54
  it is printed with Angarod's name on top of it.
• 28:02
  I. Love this scene in particular
• 28:04
  because I love how she uses the fear of drowning to actually
• 28:09
  surpass her own fears. Yeah, no one is is really good
• 28:15
  is very evocative and how it works things and you know, now
• 28:24
  it's it's time to reenact 7 and be like what's in the box.
• 28:29
  What's in the? Box.
• 28:32
  Open. It open.
• 28:34
  It they don't really get a chance to do that for a couple
• 28:40
  reasons. One, nothing makes anybody quite
• 28:44
  as literally and figuratively wet as nearly drowning.
• 28:50
  So there's a bit of horizontal, there's a bit of horizontal
• 28:54
  gymnastics. They fall asleep, they wake up
• 28:57
  and oh God, the well, the sea is trying to kill them.
• 29:02
  The storm has come in. It's it's bad.
• 29:05
  The entire the entire state looks like it's going to fall
• 29:08
  into the ocean. So they're they're trying to get
• 29:12
  out before they can't anymore. But unfortunately, you know the
• 29:17
  fairy king does not want that. Yeah, so as they're basically,
• 29:28
  you know, because they can unlock the box, they need
• 29:30
  Deanto's key. So as they're trying to grab it
• 29:32
  and then get the hell out of dodge, Ianto shows up and
• 29:38
  naturally decides this is a perfect time for a good old
• 29:41
  villain monologue of. Course, apparently.
• 29:50
  Apparently Colin called him because the 2.
• 29:57
  Preston and Effie the The lovebirds are not nearly as
• 30:01
  grave detectives as they think they are.
• 30:03
  And naturally, he was a little that, you know, it's almost as
• 30:07
  though the dude with something to hide would maybe want to make
• 30:09
  sure that the thing stayed hidden.