Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Casablanca (1942) - Michael Curtiz | Houselights #264

Transcript

Casablanca (1942) - Michael Curtiz | Houselights #264 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned party.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Here's looking at you, kid, and here's looking at a
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: continuation of our house of Curtis here on house lights,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: the works of Michael Curtiz. And of course, as you
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: talk about the works of Michael Curtiz, you cannot help
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: but pass through Casablanca, a film which is regarded as
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: by many many film critics and as part of the
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: National Film Registry. So we come here to Casablanca, here
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: on house lights to talk about it. I am cafe
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: owner and functional alcoholic John Mills, and I am joined
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: by the debonair piano player Darren Moser and the slightly
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: corrupt yet lovable of police Tristan Riddell, here to talk
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: about Cortiza's classic Casablanca. Gentlemen, this is going to be
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: both a wonderful and a difficult conversation, because Casablanca is
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: one of those films where it's difficult to put into words,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: sometimes that which it means to somebody, or that which
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: it meant to them at the time, or what it
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: means to them years later. Of course, I'll go ahead.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I'll start off by saying this is my first time
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: seeing it in a number of years. My first encounter
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: with it was in college, and I don't recall if
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: it was part of a class or because somebody was like,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: you haven't seen Casablanca. You got to see that damn thing.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And I wound up seeing it and fell in love
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: with it years and years ago. And it's one of
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: those films that I revisit rarely because I don't I'm
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: terrified of it ever being less special when I watch it.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: There are films like that. But Darren, what was your
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: first encounter with Casablanca?
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Similar for me.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: I first caught it in college, but not because I
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: was a film nerd and rooming with other film nerds.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: This is my wife's favorite movie, like number one on
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: her list, hands down. She is a big Humphrey Bogart fan,
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: and so she introduced me to this. And so while
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: I totally get not watching it for sentimental reasons, I've
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: seen this many times, including very recently, because it is
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: usually like maybe a Christmas time or just you know,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: anytime throughout the year. We'll probably watch at least once
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: a year because she she really enjoys it so and
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: I do as well. So that's the only difference in
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: our stories is the frequency. But again, every time that
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: I watch it, the dialogue is always what strikes me.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: And I mean, I mean, we're gonna go through all
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: the list of cinematography, the music, the acting, the pianoing,
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: all of that, but at the end, I love just
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: the witty repartee of our characters as they're jousting each
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: other verbally.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: It's one of the best parts.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: So what's interesting, Darren is you and I have both
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: seen Casablanca, not just once, not just twice, but multiple
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: times in our lives as we go through because of course.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: So many times.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: And what's interesting is it's one of those movies that
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you take for granted that like, well, of course somebody's
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: seen it by a certain age. It's sort of like
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: a de rigueur thing. Since there are French people in this,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I decided to use a French term there. So I
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: was puzzled when I found out that there was somebody
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: we both know that I'd never seen Casablanca before. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I believe that gentleman Tristan Riddell is here with us
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: on the podcast right now. Tristan, I got to ask
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: a totally different question we throw every so often when
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: somebody encountered something for the first time. But what is
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: it that prevented you from seeing Casa Blanca? Was it
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: something that you always meant to get around to. Was
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: it something where you were like, yeah, you know, it's
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: an old movie. I'm not really you know, I've seen
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: enough old movies, or you figured it was reputation had
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: to have been exaggerated. What was it that kept Casablanca
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: from hitting your viewing list through these years?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: It was definitely not like I've seen enough old movies,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: like I continue to watch older movies and you know,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: from one hundred years ago to even further to this day.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So that definitely wasn't it. But it was. It was.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: It was just one of those movies. It was a
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: missing frame. It was something that I just never got
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: around to. It was I never got the opportunity, Like no,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: like someone didn't someone wasn't in my life and said like,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like let's sit down and watch it,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: like you got to watch it. That's my favorite film,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: or like this is this is in my top five,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: my top ten or something, and like that, like no one,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: no one ever presented me with that kind of situation,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: and I would I never sat down and was just like,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch Casablanca.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I just I just never. It just never happened. And
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: it was just one of those movies that just kind
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of fell through the cracks. And it was interesting because
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I told my wife that we were doing Michael Curtiz
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: House of Curtis, and I said, I was like, oh, yeah,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I need to I need to watch Casablanca the guys
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: who were kind of making fun of me already, And
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: she's like, are you gonna admit on air that you
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it?
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: And that's definitely transparency. Yeah. Yeah, there are no secrets
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: between us.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: But that's what that is.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Of those movies that you you lie about when you're like, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: you know, I've seen it.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the time of the thing with the place, yeah yeah, totally.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting is Casablanca is so ingrained in the
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: culture that even somebody who hasn't seen it has encountered something.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: You know, play at Sam, here's looking at you, kid,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: or you know, actually to go back one the misquoted
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: play it again, Sam, because Woody Allen released the movie
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: in seventy two by that title, And so I really
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: was at Mandela effect where they like play it again, Sam,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, no, no, that's not the line from
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: the movie. It's like beat me up, study and or
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: look I am your father. It's like, no, that's not
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: the line. But so this is this is part of
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the cultural fabric. But in terms of the production, it
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: was not an easy production. And it wasn't you know,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: it didn't lean into the idea of auteur theory where
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Curtiz had this singular vision and you know he nol
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: ended up or he was like the Kubrick of his
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: day or anything. This is a movie made by committee.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: This is a movie based on a play. There are
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: several screenwriters, there's a lot of different drafts, there are
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: different versions. There's you know, Curtiz is now not even
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: the first director considered. And you look at the history
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: of the making of the film and Darren, you know,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I'll toss this to you role play for a second.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: You read the production history of Casablanca, all of the
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: challenges with you know, censorship and the you know, changing
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: of lines, and Bogart comes back after the film is
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: completed to record the very famous last line is the
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: beginning of a beautiful friendship. They're making changes as they go.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: None of it's filmed on location. It's all set extensions
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: with paintings and you know, you have cardboard planes and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: all of those sorts of things. What would the story
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: have been if Casablanca were was covered the way we
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: cover things now with filmmaking. Do you think the Casablanca
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: is screwed coming out of the gate and the studio
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: is just like, well, I'm just going to eat this one,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: or do you think that it would have managed to
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: fly regardless?
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean looking at it in that particular context.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: I don't want to live in a time in the
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: nineteen forties where there's that much information about the production
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: and it's just, Oh, I want to pick up my
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: copy of Variety and see a new movie's coming out
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: next week and that is the first I've heard of
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: it is that is the amount that I want instead
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: of nowadays where you know, oh, rumored so and so
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: has been cast in this movie, Like that's going to
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: shoot in two years and I'm already gonna hate it
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: by the time it comes out.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: It's like, no, no, no, we don't want to do that.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I although on the flip side of the coin,
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: I would love a documentary about the making of this movie.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: I would love someone who had been there to have rolled,
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: you know, some sixteen millimeter film or even eight millimeter film.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: It's just a little handheld camera and picked up little
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: interviews and such throughout the filming. That is on the
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: other side that I missed, like I wish we had
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: had something like that. That just wasn't really a thing,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: you know, back then. But all that to say, I
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: think this is also one of those miracle movies where
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: the right things happen at the right time with the
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: right people, and very easily. The thread could have come
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: undone if if anyone who's part of this formula was
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: not there, if if Bogart wasn't there, or if Curtiz
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: wasn't ending up the director. But I think if he
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: had been the first director, it probably would have been
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: different versus coming in later.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Like all these little push and pulls.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: We've seen it a hundred times different on different films,
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: where it's the collective journey and path that that movie
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: takes that really pulls it together.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: And yeah, in twenty twenty. We not the year, but
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: the hindsight, you know.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: We look back and we say, oh, well, obviously that's
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: look at the great dialog at this it's like, but
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: we often forget in the moment, they're just trying to
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: make the best movie they can, and sometimes they succeed.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a worthwhile note. Like back when
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: movies were first coming out, they were recognized as entertainment
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't supposed to be every film is going
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: to change your life. It was okay to go and
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: be like, you know what, Yeah, I'll catch the latest
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: picture with Boguard. I like Boguard. I'm going to go
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: see what that is. But that said, you know, Tristan,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: this film encounter, you know, it was. It was a
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: good success, but it wasn't like breaking the banks sort
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: of success. It made it nine times over, it made
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: its budget, but it was It was considered a reasonable success,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: but not like an earth shattering success, at least according
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: to the sources that I read.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Nine times the wind, you know, gone with the wind.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: It made somewhere between. I know. But the thing is
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: the thing that I got to know, you know, you
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: might be able to shed light on this. Box office
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: on Wikipedia is listed as three point seven to six
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: point nine million, so pretty wide range. So three point
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: two million dollar swath. So obviously it made money through
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: re releases, you know, video didn't exist and stuff like that.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So basically like it's not gone with the win money
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: or anything like that. Do you think that this is
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: a movie that grew in reputation over time justly or
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: do you think that there was a cult film fan
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: faction to it that sort of propelled it forward the
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: way that we saw with Citizen Kane.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't have the foggiest I couldn't answer that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: in the slightest, but I will say that I think,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: you know, speaking of Citizen Kane, like when you have
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: movies that have such a huge I don't want to
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: say pedigree, that's not the right word, legacy, that have
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: just a gigantic monumental legacy, like when you're looking at Constable,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: when you're looking at Citizen Kane and Godfather.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: Let's use those as an example.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: You know, you know, like these are those those two
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: movies are arguably the best two movies ever made by consensus.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying they are I'm not saying they aren't,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: but when you look at like Afi Bfi, you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: like all those all those lists that come out every
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: year where they're readjusted or IMDb's Top two hundred and
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: fifty or whatever, those two are always at the top
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: of the list, like they're competing with each other, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: and so you know, people go into them with a
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: lot of baggage. Like if you weren't raised on Citizen
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Kane and Godfather like I was, then you know, you
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: could come into it like I did with Casablanca, like Okay,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: you know, what's this really going to be? Like is
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: this really going to be good or is it just
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: good because it was good at the time? And are
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: am I going to like it? Or am I just
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: supposed to like it? And I think those those are things.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Those things go a long way. And like I was
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: talking with my uncle the other day and Godfather came
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: up and he said he's like, he's like, you know,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen any of those and he's a huge movie.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Guy, and I was like, how is that possible?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't like gangster films, and I
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, but this goes beyond that, Like this
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: goes beyond that genre. He's like, eh, I don't like
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: gangster films, Like he doesn't feel any societal pressure, and
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: you've got to admire that, honestly. But with Casablanca, I
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: was really hesitant to go in it because I was like, man,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I really hope that this doesn't suck, Like I really
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: hope that this isn't that type of movie. But I did.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I did go into it with an open mind.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Well, we would expect no less. We know you well
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: enough to know that that's going to be the case,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and I hope.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: So my answer to your question, John, again, I don't
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: have any facts in front of me, but it gives me.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: The vibes of.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: It's a wonderful life, like a movie that was okay,
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: but really once Turner Classic movie started to show it
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: like every Christmas and then you so if you what
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: is it when you look on Google when something was
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: searched and you see like, oh, that's when that word
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: like came into being. Same thing with this movie, like
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: it had its peak when it was released, and then
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: it's dormant for decades and then something culturally like a
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: movie channel or something like that brings it back and
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: now becomes part of the Christmas ethos where you watch
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: it every year and New Year's and all that. So
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: I get the feeling that Casablanca might have a similar
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: story where you know, home video release or showing on cable.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: It introduced a newer generation to this movie and probably
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: caused the upswing of a claim that we know, now
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: this is all just hypothetical, but that's the kiln Ryaba get.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: You're actually pretty close to the to the actual story
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: where there it became a tradition for the film to
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: be shown and eventually picked up around Harvard and then
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: you know, and then they started showing it on television
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: an awful lot. And of course you have people like
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Woody Allen making play It again, Sam which lionizes the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: film in nineteen seventy two, so obviously it's there in
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: sort of the film student mindset, and that sort of
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: carries it forward. And I think that you know, it's
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: right to mention it's a wonderful life, which was shown
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: on TV so much at one point that the rights
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: somebody bought the rights. It was like, okay, new rule
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: only once a year. Because people were starting to get
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: inured to the message of the film. But with all
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: of the praise that the film has had through time,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: there are people who didn't love it, who found you know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: who were somewhat detractors with it. You know. Pauline Kale,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: legendary film critic, you know, was one of the people
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: that essentially called it hokey, corny, you know. And all
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: of the people who you know loved it, they will
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: even concede, you know, there are things you can pick apart.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So Tristan, you know, with this being your first viewing,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: were there moments where you were picking apart a scene
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: and it took you out? Or was it something where
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: the editing kept everything flowing fast enough that it was
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: only in retrospect that you started issuing specific criticism.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything that really took me out
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of it, because I feel like the nature of movies
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: that are this old, because this is I mean, I
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: guess you can't even call this pre war, because this
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: is war.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Came out like this, well, yep, year after year after
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: the States were in the war, even though the film
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: is set before the United States got involved.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Right, And so that's crazy to me. And I think
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: like when you're watching a movie that is eighty years old,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: like over eighty years old. I feel like you have
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a certain expectation you're not going to be enveloped, to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: tell you much with the technicality of it, Like there's
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: gonna be jump cuts, you know, there's gonna be bad
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: editing just because of limit. There's gonna be times when
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, this is hardcore as set, like I
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: can see the cardboard. You know, like there's gonna be
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: certain things like that that happen. And am I saying
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: that that happens all the time? Was something that would
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: you know with nineteen forty one movies and before. No,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that at all. It's just like you
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: have that expectations that not everything's gonna be seamless, and
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: this movie is no different. I think like the opening
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: scene where the guy who doesn't have his visa and
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: then he runs away and get you get that invisible
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: bullet with the invisible bullet wound and he falls down.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: You know, like you expect to see that in a
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: movie this old, Like you're not gonna see they didn't
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: have squibs.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, you're not gonna see a burst of blood.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: You know that that's not going to pass you know,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: muster for the Hays Code.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they might have had trouble getting that past
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: the board that proof things.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah it's okay, it's in black and white. It's not blood,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: it's black. Yeah, it's it's chocolate syrup. Uh.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, things like that are like there's
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: there's shots when we're in the yeah, in the cafe,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: and you know, people are all of a sudden facing
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: a different direction, and the next cut, it just it happens,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: like you know, like Darren you mentioned, It's a wonderful life,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Frank Capra. Everybody loves it, super great. One of the
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: worst edited movies I've ever seen in my entire Life's
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: horrible editing.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: You are a monster. You're an absolute monster for thinking
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: so no, go.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: On, no, no, it's god awful editing. It's it's atrocious,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: like it breaks so many rules, and you're just like,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: did Frank Capra fall asleep that day? Did like did
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: they have missing reels? What's going on? Terrible editing. I'm
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: not saying that this was terrible editing, but you get
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that sensation of like, Okay, you forgive a lot, but
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: then you have you look at the same amatography and
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: John I even texted you like I had to pause
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the movie and go help my kid with something, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, man, I'm, you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: eleven minutes in and I'm already in awe of the cinematography.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Just the use of the frame, the z space, the
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: movement of the camera was well beyond its time.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The cinematographer was Arthur Edison ASC and he was
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: active from nineteen fourteen to nineteen forty eight, so this
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: is on the tail end of his career. And shortly
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: before he shot this, he had done The Maltese Falcon, Yes,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: which is a beautifully shot film.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: How many rules they breaking that one?
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Tristan, Yeah, yeah, Tristan, how many rules? But the thing is,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: if you look through his filmography, I doubt that I've
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: seen more than like two of his movies or whatever.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Quite on the Western front. That one pops out, but.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: He like, you look at how many movies he worked on,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: and it's like this guy did, I don't know, it's
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: it's pretty don't I don't have the math skills to
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: count it up without somebody tallying it for me. But
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: you know, in terms of that photography, Darren, Are you
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: caught the same way? I mean, you've seen it so
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: many times these shots sort of burn themselves into your brain.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Is there any specific shot this many years later, Is
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: there any specific moment where you look at it even
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: today and you go that should be taught to people
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: for how things should be framed or lit.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Ah, again, just one.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: Just the whole fact of the use of black and white.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know I would never want to watch
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: this movie in color. I think there is probably a
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: colorized version somewhere because there it's the kind of thing
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: where it is a silver screen movie you need that
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: that gradient of gray. But the scenes that pop out
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: to me just off the top of my head are
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: anytime we're interacting with the piano, we're moving around the piano,
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: We're hiding things in the piano.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Sam's playing the piano.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: Like it is like you could ask me, oh, where's
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: the bar, and Rix, I have no idea. I know
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: where the piano is. I don't know where. I mean,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: you know, I could find where the drinks are poured,
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: but it's the anchor of that establishment. So they maybe
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: they put it like right in the middle almost. But
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: so all those shots where, especially when we're hiding things
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: and moving around or playing it again Sam, you know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: those are some of my favorite shots because you know, yeah,
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: they might you know, break the line every once in
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: a while, because you know, that's just what they do.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: But it doesn't take me out of it. It just
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: is the story is strong enough to I'm never like, oh, wait,
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: Sam was facing that way and Rick walked around him.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: It's like, no, it's just Sam and Rick. It's a
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: scene of Sam and Rick, and I'm more interested in
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: the dialogue. I'm more interested in the stakes that are
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: rising throughout the course of this movie. So yeah, it's
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: just a gorgeously shot movie.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: In terms of the way it's shot. For me, the
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many beautiful moments, but I
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: think probably the weight on the scale is because I
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: love the interaction of the characters. But when Sam is
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: there and Rick is just drunk out of his mind
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: trying to forget his woes, and Sam refuses to leave
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: him and he's like, no, I'm not going to go,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: and Rick is trying to get Sam gone and Sam
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: is basically like, no, I'm not leaving, and then also
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: shows up He's like, oh, that's my cue. I'm out.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: But like I love that scene.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's an incredible scene. But it's also I
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: think shot incredibly because the way the lighting falls, everything
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: is in port of Rick without feeling like there's a
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: spotlight on him, and it's so excellently done just to
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: pull your eye in. I mean, it's so obvious to
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: me looking at the work of Edison that you get
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: or it might be Edson. I don't know how to
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: pronounce the name, but like you look at the way
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: that is put and you can tell you're in the
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: hands of somebody who has worked with film for so
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: long that you know I'm making a joke. But it
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: could have easily been like Kurtiz probably could have shown
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: up one day and be like, you know, I'm not
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: entirely sure how to and he's like, Okay, I got it, Mike,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: it's okay. I know how to shoot this. Trust me.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I did this fifteen times on three other films twenty
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: years ago. I got this. But in terms of these characters, Tristan,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: you know, in your first viewing, I'm curious as to
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: your impression of Rick as a character, as a protagonist
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: and his journey through the film. How did you feel
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Bogart handled the character. Do you think that he was
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: worthy of that Oscar nomination that he got and the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: the you know, the acclaim that he got, or do
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: you think that he's benefited from the reputation of the
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: film through time.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I was surprised to hear that both him and
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Bergmann hated making the movie. Like they didn't they kept
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: trying to find ways to get out of it, like
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: they didn't like the dialogue, they didn't understand the story.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Bergmann.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: They said that they were still finalizing the script when
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: when they were filming the flashback scenes and Bergmann had
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: no idea if she was supposed to be in love
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: with Rick or the other guy, right, And so Bogie said,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: just play it down the middle. And so I think
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: this is this is iconically Bogie, And like when you
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: think Bogart, this is the movie that even before I
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: saw the movie, this was the movie that you think
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: of when you hear the name Humphrey Bogart. And so
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to say that he doesn't doesn't
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: didn't deserve the accolades, or doesn't deserve them more. It
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: could have been anybody or could have been somebody else.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, you don't really, you don't really.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: One criticism would be like, oh, you don't really see
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: an arc two tailbly much because we're we're lit in
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: from the get go that he's a good guy, and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: they keep telling us that he's a good guy because
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: they're like, he, you know, fought the fascists in Spain
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and and helped help people I think in Ethiopia. I
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: think this is the other one. And and he hides
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the the letters when he doesn't need to things like that,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and regardless, it happens towards the end where you start
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: to see like, oh, there's a switch, like he is
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: actually even more selfless than you think, Like he's not
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: gonna like he loves also so much that he's gonna
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: make her go. And so you get that arc in
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: like the last ten to fifteen minutes, which is fine,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: but like, that's probably my only criticism about the character.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Otherwise than that, I feel like I love movies that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: are based off of.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: Plays stage plays.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I absolutely love I love that because the dialogue is
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: snappier most of the time, and it's a little heightened
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: where there it's don't shoot me for this example.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I will though, but it's okay.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: You know, like in Gilmore Girls, where like people don't
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: talk like that, and I'm not just talking about the speed,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: but it's that it's this.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Weird dialogue talking.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: It sounds like, yes, it sounds like dialogue. And that's
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: okay if you buy into it. Like there's several movies
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: where you're just like, wow, this person has never even
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: had a human interaction. This is not one of those movies.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Like it's a heightened reality to it, Like everyone has
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: a quippi one liner, everyone has a response to everything,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: and so like you're you're kind of enveloped into that
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that realm of dialogue. And this is one of those movies.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: And like one of my favorite movies of all time,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Line in Winter with O'Toole and Hepburn is based off
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: of a stage play and it's basically just like somebody
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: just copy and pasted the stage play into the screen play,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: into the into the movie play, the movie play, the
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: movie script and teleplay teleplay. It wasn't on television, it
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: was on this It was on the screen the screen cineplay.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Yes that is we all know about the cineplay. But
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: it's like in that movie in itself too, Like everyone's
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: super witty, everyone's super smart and like has a response
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: to everything.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: And that's what I liked.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Like one of my favorite parts about Cosablanca is the
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: script and Bogart's lines, Sam's lines and the colonel uh Iss.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: Strasser.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the yeah, not colonel the German guy who
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: played Prince John.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Not Renault, but.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: That's Captain Lee Renauld.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Captain.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I was wrong on all of those counts, but yeah, Like, uh,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I thought his character was a delight, Like he was
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun to watch.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: No, I mean that's what's also great about this movie
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: is you have Rick and you have the Core Trio,
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: but you have circling them like a dozen great just characters. Uh.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: You know, I love Peter lore in this. I mean
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: he's got a tiny little role.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Peter Laurie's transcendent in this. He's so he's been in
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: so many things, but you think, I mean, for me,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: I think of him in this movie. Yeah, and I'm
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: all always shocked when I watch it.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: I'm like, my god, he's in it for like three
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: minutes and you remember like every minute because it's so good.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Well, and you know, Claude Rains is interesting to compare.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think we all kind of agreed he
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: was chewing the scenery in a Ventures of robin Hood.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Like it just shows like when you're given the right
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: stuff to make a character, like look what he did
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: with this same person, like.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Four years difference, director the same director, and his.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Performance is subtly charming enough that you forget what an
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: absolute piece of human garbage you.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: Know, is not a person. Yes, he's not a good person. No, well,
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: and I mean, speaking of human garbage, you do have
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: Conrad vn.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Vite, the Conrad vite as Strausser amazing and he.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: You know, was as also a refugee as a German
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: actor and would often play Nazis because he wanted to
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: play them like impactful where you're like, oh, this is
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: a terrible person.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: But he fled Germany right with his wife who was Jewish,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: and then he plays Nazis and it's like, what I mean,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: that's a heck of a way to work out, und Right.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: It happened, right, and the character came across and it did.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's one of the main core characters that
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: you remember from this movie.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he certainly is. But what's interesting is one guy
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: that I always come back to, and it's because of
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: course I'm a you know, star wars nerd as the
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: other two of you are as well. Is whenever George
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Lucas would describe his original vision for Joba the Hut,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: he said, Oh, it's sort of like Sydney Green Street
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and Casablanca, which before I saw Casablanca, I was like, okay,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So I watched this every time, though in my brain
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like, so this is what Jaba was supposed to be,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Like I see, and it's just horrible because Sydney Green
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Street is I think he's charming too. Like there, it's
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: almost as if Curtiz's direction to everybody was I want
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: you to charm the pants off the audience. Just be
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: as lovable as you can be, even if you're playing
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: a dirt bag, and it's like, okay, and it works.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And I think that is Tristan. I think that leans
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: into what you're talking about about, that heightened reality that
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: stage play sort of thing is stage actors will always
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: take the stage trying to project their charisma out to
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: the audience because they want to be memorable. And I
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: think that is one of the things that heightens Casablanca
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: and makes it work as well as it does. Now,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: are you are either one of you familiar with the
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: experiment that was done with Casablanca's script many years later?
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Where yes, I know, yes, okay, hey, please you take
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: the story.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: So what they did was they this was in the eighties,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I think, which was a hell of a time for film.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: And yes, they renamed it Casa Blanca. I'm sorry, they
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: took away the name Casa Blanca and they named it
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: what was it like everybody goes to Ricks something like that.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Which was the original play name.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Yep, And I think they changed a few details here
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and there, but kept virtually everything the same. And so
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: they sent it out to a bunch of production companies.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Some people recognized it right away, like, oh, this is
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: just Cosa Blanca is like somebody's being funny.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: And then other people they made an edit of it.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: That's what you're talking about, like they were publishing an
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: edit of the film.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: No no, no, no to the screenplint. Oh okay, I missed
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: that part. I was like, what are we what are
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: we sharing? How are we getting this? Yeah?
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Show they're sharing the script. Yeah, they're sharing the script
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: and changed the name and took out a few details
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: here and there, and some people recognize it as Casa
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Blanca right away. Other people didn't and were like this,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: like this, this movie's lame. This is never going to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: make money. There's not enough sex in it. I think
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: at one time, I can't remember, like what else, Like
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: they said.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: There were all sorts of criticisms of the dialogue. There
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: were criticisms of the story. There were people who refused
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: to push it forward. There were people who just rejected
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: it outright, and like the vast majority wouldn't read it
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: because of different concerns and everything. But of those who
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: read it, like people were like a significant enough percentage,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: it was like this would be better as a book.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Don't make a movie out of this. And it was
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: only like three agents would even agree to represent it
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: and get it out into Hollywood. And that's fascinating to
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: me because again, like I mean, Darren, obviously this is
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: something where the whole was greater than the sum of
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: its part sort of thing. But when you're trying to
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: break down the magic of it, if you were to
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: pick one, see one performance of Casablanca that hits you
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: the hardest that makes you understand it, like the scene
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: that made it click, even if you can go back
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: and put yourself in the shoes of the first time
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: you ever saw it. What is the scene that you
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: think would make it click for somebody to understand why
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: people fall in love with this film?
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: Oh man, Honestly, it's the first one that comes to mind.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Is the scene where they have the dueling.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: National anthems, any of the French n anthem anthem and
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: the German national anthem. It's a very powerful scene, not
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: even just looking at the context of nineteen forty two,
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: which is like the most important time to have that scene.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: And I think.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: It the fact that it's not really a scene about
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: our main characters. It's more about these German guys this
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: table and these French people over here at the band.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: But our characters are in this moment, and the fact
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: that Rick like lets them play, in the fact that
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: like the way on the on the circumference, on the
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: perfery of this scene they interact, it tells us not
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: everything we need to know about our characters, but it
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: gives us hints of who they are and what they
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: stand for. So I mean it'd be easy to pick
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: one of the big speeches or the quote lines at
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: the end, you know that go on movie posters. But
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: for that scene, not only do you have like literal
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: tears coming from the actors who are French refugees, like
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: they're not having to act.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: I think it's one of the most powerful scenes of
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: the movie.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I think it's a beautiful scene, and it is definitely
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's interesting because of the fact that Rick,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: as the American, he just doesn't get involved. He's like, yeah,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you know what, Yeah, play your songs. I'm not I'm
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: not getting I'm not taking up a side on here.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: You guys have it out. Just don't just don't shoot
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: each other in here. And Tristan, I, you know, I
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: don't want to get into the territory of spoiling your
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: your initial review or anything. But was there a scene
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: like that where, regardless of the rest of the film,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: you're like, Oh, if somebody's gonna fall in love with
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: this movie, it's going to be because of this.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Probably probably the scene we talked about earlier with with
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Sam and and Rick in the dark, just you know,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: it just made you fall in love with Sam's character,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: like it made you recognize.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Let me, let me.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Rephrase it moved. It moved Sam beyond being a token
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: character where Rick is a good guy just because he
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: took him along with him, like, oh, you know, like
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: he's such a good piano player. I brought him from France,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: you know, like no, no, no, no, that's not it
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: at all. That was not the case whatsoever. Like you
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: you could tell that these people care about each other, like, yeah,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you know, Rick's the boss and he pays him his salary,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: but he could make money playing piano anywhere. And they
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: prove that right at the top with the dude with
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: the fees. You know, he'll pay you double. He's like,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: I don't have enough time to spend that kind of money.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, adarely have time to spend the money? Rick
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: gives me.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, what a response, right, yeah, it's such a
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: great response. And it's just like that's when you fall
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: in love with Sam's character. I think one, I think,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: like that's a great scene to show. But honestly, I
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: would just tell people like just start it. Just start
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the movie and you'll you'll understand why you should stick
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: with it. Like it because it hooks you, right, away,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: and if you know anything about film, I should say
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: you have an appreciation for the era, and you look
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: at the cinematography, it'll it'll snap you in right away.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: One thing I do want to talk about with you
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: guys is the flashback scenes.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I was about to go into that because Citizen
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Kane kicks the door open with flashback and then here
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: we go about a year later with Casablanca and they
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: embrace flashback. And the flashback in specific is something that
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Kurtiz fought to keep that people talked about cutting and
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: he was like, no, we gotta have it. So yeah,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: go ahead. You know, like obvious that you want to
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: dip into it.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: That That was going to be one of my questions
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to you guys. It's like, do you think we needed
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the flashback scenes or would it have worked without it?
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying yes, I'm not saying no. I
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I genuinely want to ask you guys, like, do you think.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: He wants us to tell him what he should think? Darren?
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: Come on, I think based off of the connection with
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: like the play and stuff like that, I could definitely
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: see it.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: It doesn't need them.
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: It's not like, oh that flashback elevated the character to
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: do high like it's not that kind of a flashback,
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: but I think it's a it's a contrast. It it's
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: the only time you're seeing Rick smile, like he is
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: so happy in that flashback. It really underscores I think
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: you're numb to how sour he is and dower through
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: the entire movie until you see, oh, he was a
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: happy guy. And then you come back and you're like, Okay,
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: you're re seeing Rick with a kind of fresh eye
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: after that flashback, because and I think that's the best
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: thing that it does is it kind of recontextualized what
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: was right in front of you, but it's like, no, no,
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: this is what's happened to Rick, and this is how
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: he's been kind of beaten down.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: And it also I think.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: Makes it very believable his end choices on sacrifice, on
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: sending her away, because I could see there also be
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: a point without the flashback of oh, yeah, but he's
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: the guy, he's the lead, like why is he doing?
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: Like you know, it adds a little bit to that. Again,
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: I don't feel it needs to be in there, like
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: the movie falls apart without it, but context wise, I
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: think it helps I.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Will actually go the extra mile and say that the
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: film is fine without it, but I think the film
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: is great with it. And that is specifically because of
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: all the stuff that you're talking about, Darren is Rick
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: is in danger of being one note through this film.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: But having that flashback gives you an opportunity to see
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: exactly how much of Rick's persona that you've encountered and
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: will encounter for a time after the flashback. How much
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: of it is a conscious choice, how much of it
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: is work on his part. And the reason he seems
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: so bitter and tired is because he is pretending not
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: to care. He cares very deeply, and the only reason
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: he is who he is is because he has decided
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: to push the world. He's basically screw Rooge. He was
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: hurt in the past and he refuses to let the
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: world in until the end of the film. And I
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: think this flashback is just like going back and seeing
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Scrooge's past, and it's like Scrooge used to be a
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: decent dude, but then by his own choices and sometimes
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: by the choices of the world, he became a bitter man.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Now it's not a one to one obviously, I love
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: a door. And I'm very familiar with the Christmas Carol,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: so please save your letters. Okay, it's not a one
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: to one, I get it. But I like the fact
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: that Rick gets that break for that specific like and
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I think that that is an example of they placed
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: it right. Is it breaks up the narrative and you
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: get to see Rick smiling. And I also truly enjoy
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: seeing Sam make him get on the train, because that
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: again gives Sam even more importance to the story and
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: really shows that he and Rick love each other. They
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: truly are the best of friends. It's not just a
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: friendship of convenience. So that's where I stand with it. So,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I think that it's interesting that
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: people wanted to cut, and obviously, you know, the producer
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: thought about, you know, dubbing over Dooley Wilson in post
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: production and stuff like that, and there are post production
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: decisions made and everything. But I do want to talk
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: about the fact that the producer, how Willis, had a
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: very embarrassing moment at the Oscars when Casablanca won Best Picture.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: And I want to ask Tristan, what would you do
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: if you were the producer of a film and you
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: got literally blocked by the head of the studio's family,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: so that the head of the studio could run up
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: and take all of the credit for everything that you
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: had seen put on screen. Exactly how mad would you
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: have been? Would you have handled it with as polite
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: an air as as this producer who decided, you know,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: I shall merely quit a month later, or would you
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: have straight up decked Warner at the end of the ceremony?
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Uh, definitely in between. I think I would have had him.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I would have given him a hug, like I would
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: have what I would have done if I had the
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: like if I if I knew this person, I like,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: I can I can see myself in the situation where
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: like I'm sitting down with my wife and she's like,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: you know that hack is going to try to get
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: up there first, and I'm like, yeah, I know, I know.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: She's like, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta figure out
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: what you're going to do. And so if he went
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: up first before he started talking, I would go up
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: and give him a hug and then grab the statue
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: as I'm hugging him and take it away. That's what
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I would do so that no one would know what
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: was happening.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I love that. That's beautiful. You wouldn't have gone for
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: the full on Will Smith slap of an innocent comedian,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: but you would have rather gone ahead with the very
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: subtle takeaway of the award.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: I like this.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I like this, and considering the fact that that Wallace
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: he produced a lot of really incredible films, you know,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: through his career, and it's it's stunning that Warner would
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: not have the presence of mind not to alienate him,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: because this is a guy that would have continued producing
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: incredible films for you so that your studio would have
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: continued making money and gotten esteem. So it's it's kind
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: of stunning.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: Katzenberg like, oh, he was doing great things, and then
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: you're like, Nope, you don't get to move up. And
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: then look, he went off and made DreamWorks their biggest competitor.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: Right then, that's that's an excellent point.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: Actually.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Uh so, Okay, we always save talking about music for
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: a certain segment, but this movie, more than probably Wow,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: almost any other we've talked about, as a song in
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: it that is burned into the cultural zeitgeist so severely
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: that I hope that it catches on on TikTok so
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: that the movie and the song can continue for another generation.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: But obviously it's as time goes by? Darren, do you
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: find that to be as effective a song as you know,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: its reputation has garnered through time because it's a song
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: that they considered replacing at one point. Do you think
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: that that song is a great tide? Do you think
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: that it's a great song deserving of its rep.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: It is. I don't feel like it makes the movie
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: like it's again comparing to other movies of the time
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: or even later, you know, makes me think of and
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: it's a wonderful life you have, Like they're singing buffalo goals.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: You know, they have their song, you know, any and
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: that's what as time goes by is it's their song.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: It's important because it's important to the characters, not because
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: it's the best song out there.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: It's not a bad song at all.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: It's a good song.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: And I think it was even it makes me think
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: of it wasn't in like the Warner Brothers intro for
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: like a long time, like like just the beginning chords, like.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: And then the WB would come up and run up
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: and grab the statue. Now, but yeah, exactly. That's the
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: end of the movie. But yeah, so I'm just kind
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: of in the middle. It's a good song.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: I enjoy it, but because it means something to our characters,
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: I think it could have been anything, And if you
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: had it connect and mean as much of the characters,
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: we would talk the same about what the other choice
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: would have been.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: So I'm not that hung up on it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Now here's the charged question. The charged question because I
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: am definitely of and opinion about this, but I know
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: that you two gentlemen, you're much more straight laced than
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: I am. But I maintain that one of the reasons
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: that a film like this endures and resonates so much
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: is everybody can relate with the idea of the lost love,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: regardless of how happy they are in their current life.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: There's always, you know, the old standby of the one
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: that got away? Tristan. Do you think that that helps
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: this film endure in the sense that everybody can relate
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: to the idea that there's always going to be that
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: one relationship where you think back and you go if
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: but for one thing, it would have gone differently? Do
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: you think that that helps this film continue?
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's a classic storytelling technique. It's kind
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: of the basis for you know, seventy percent of the
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: rom coms that we've gotten over the past fifty years.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if I can say that it
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: helps it endure. It's just one of those aspects of
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: humanity that so many people can connect with. I don't
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: know if I can say specifically.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, fair enough, Darren, where would do you want to
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: take the wind out of my sales further?
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: After choices? Definitely please now, I think it's kind.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: Of the same where to me, the thing that makes
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: this movie endearing enduring is the fact that our main
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: character makes the right choice even though it doesn't benefit
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: him directly, and it's a hard choice to make. That
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: I think is what you and it made a good
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: point about the relating to the you know, lost love
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: and things like that, and I think that's definitely there.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: But I think there's a stronger human connection of if
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: I was in the same position, I hope that I
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: would make the same selfish choice as Rick. I feel
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: that's a stronger connection of relatability. You know, I haven't
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: owned a night club at Cosa Blanca.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: I don't have you know, you're a young man.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: Ore's still time.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: But all that to say, I think, like you said,
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: there is a connection. I just don't necessarily think the
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: lost love is the angle that resonates. And maybe it's
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: not the selflessness of Rick.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: It could be many things. But enough, there goes your sales. Well,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you know what, it was worth a shot. Every so
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: often I pitched something and it doesn't quite fly. But
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: what does fly is that Tristan, you're gonna go after Darren,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: and you're gonna go after me. You're gonna finish this
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: whole thing, Darren. Final thoughts. And of Casablanca, Oh, I.
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: Mean it's it's Casablanca. It's around, it's been around forever.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: It's on so many lists.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: If you're a film lover, it's great.
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: If you just love good stories, I mean it's I
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: don't recall if you've actually shown it to our kids.
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: I don't think we have, But anytime they've seen a
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: movie like this, they call it like like a silver movie,
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: because you know, there's there's no color there. But it's
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: it's just such a great film. I I give it.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: I will say I'm probably deconstructing my response with a
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: four that I'm bumping to a five because of its
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: connection with me and my wife's favorite film and things
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: like that, Like I don't want to just go out
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: and say, oh, this is a five because like Citizen
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: Kase of five and God, there's a five, Like, you know,
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: then why have ratings if everything's a five?
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: You know? But I think it's endured.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: It is still a classic movie. It's one of those
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: movies if you were, you know, surfing on the television
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: kids ask your parents, then you know you would. I
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: would stop and watch the rest of it, no matter
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: where it was. It's that kind of movie where it's
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: not even that long. It's under two hours. So I'm
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: giving it five times or five miniature men in the
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: background next to the plane.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I will say that I give it an easy five
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: because this is one of those few movies where it
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: doesn't make me stupid cry at any point, but it
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: does make me tear up because I think that there
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: is some genuine emotion that it taps into. And there's
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: regardless of whether Bogart and Bergmann hated making the movie
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: or hated each other blah blah blah whatever, door loved
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: each other or anything like that, This is from one
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: of tho. This is from the era where when people
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: showed up to play in a film, they were going
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: to show up and they were going to give everything
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: they It did not matter what they thought of anything.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: This was their job. And if Humphrey Bogart's job was
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: to show up and play a cynical cafe owner, then
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Dad Comet, that's what he was going to play. Doesn't
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: matter if he cared about the script or not. He
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: was going to give what Kurtiz was asking for. Same
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: with Bergmann, same with green Street, same with everybody else.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: And I think that this is a film that comes
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: together because the thread is so strong that all of
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: these disparate parts it's about the experience. And Darren, I'll
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: tack on one last thing based on what you said
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: where you were like, oh well, it's even the point
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: of ratings if I'm giving everything a five. I think,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: if anything, a film like Casablanca is a film like
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Citizen Kane or even The Godfather, where it exposes the
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: utter inanity of the star rating system to begin with,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: where it's actually better if we either pare it down
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: to a thumbs up thumbs down situation or we just
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: get rid of the star ratings overall and just have
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: reviews because I could understand me praising this film and
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: going on and then somebody attacking it and put what's
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: my ground to stand on? Because I can honestly say
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Casablanca is just a movie that comes together so well
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: at the end that I can't die on a specific
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: hill for it, but I'll die on the big hill
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: for everything. So five for me, Tristan. The audience is
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: in suspense. We have saved it for last for this reason.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Where with your first viewing of Casablanca do you rate
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: this film?
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: I give it a solid four. I think it's a
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: fantastic film. I think it's well made. I think it
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: got me smiling a lot of the times, and I
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: think it's has really iconic characters. I think the only
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: reason why I'm knocking it down a star is because
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: this this movie drags super hard in the middle, Like
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: it's a really weak second act, and it like it
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: really grabs you at the beginning and it has a
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: insanely solid ending, but I think like once you get
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: past the flashbacks, it gets really weak for a little
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: too long. But the thing is you have to give
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: it credit for what is in it and what came afterwards.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Like I had no idea so much was in this
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: movie that I just know about from being an American,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Like the here's looking at you kid, I had no
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: idea that was from Cosablanca. You know, you have the
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: ending where like you know, like I have a feeling
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: this is going to be a beautiful relationship. Like obviously
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I knew that was from Casablanca. But there's so many
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: lines like that that just like like every ten to
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes in this movie, you're like, oh my gosh,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: that's like an iconic line that everybody knows and everybody repeats,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: and so you've got to give you got to give
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: credence to that. So yeah, this this is four films
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: of four films. This is this is four lit cigarettes
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: in Bogie's mouth at one time. It's by no means
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: a perfect film, but it is one of the greats.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Four cigarettes at one time is a thrill that very
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: few humans have ever ever experienced. But I promise you
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I tried, so Darren, here we are, We've given our
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: ratings and everything. What are we going to be talking
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: about next week?
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: Next week we'll be rounding out the house of Michael Curtiz.
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: As we cover nineteen fifty five's We're No Angels, another
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: humphegart here on house sits
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party,