Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 54: Meridan Zerner MS RD- MEDIA/ PRIVATE PRACTICE
Transcript
- Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Welcome back to the Nutrition Connection Podcast, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin Hicks-Roof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's go ahead and get connected. Y'all, I'm really excited to bring out a new connection online, but she comes with a wealth of experience, over 25 years, and she has really unique background and lot of various career roles along the way. So I can't wait to dive in. We have Maryden Zerner. She's the founder and CEO of Maryden Zerner Nutrition. Welcome to the show, Maryden. Meridan Zerner: ⁓ thank you for having me. 25 years, it's actually like 30 years now, so it's more than a quarter of a century in health and wellness, and it just makes me feel old, but it also means I have a lot of sage guidance to share. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Exactly. You know, and what really drew me, so you are actually one of the ones who applied on the website to be on the show, which I love that. And what really drew me into your profile, you started in journalism and television news. So I know we're going to dive into that. But I think that is one thing as I was a former faculty member, a lot of my students nutrition was their second career. And I think I think you noticed that, like as you're going through your career and you're like, I am drawn to food and health and nutrition. And so Let's talk about your journey. What inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional? Meridan Zerner: You know, I had this odd and quirky experience as a teenager. I broke my neck, which sounds very dramatic, and I'm sure it was, is. But. I'm clearly fine, the neck was fused, it scared my parents to death. But because of that, I had access to this really early appreciation for movement and capacity. And I was in the hospital and so I met dieticians and there were opportunities to chat because I was lying in a bed for quite some time. And so I think the seed was planted then. And from that point forward, I really appreciated, ⁓ okay, I'm gonna be moving, how great is that? What a gift this is. And then you can fuel that movement And so then I started reading, I think back in the day it would have been like Teen Magazine and their nutrition articles that came with it, Shape Magazine and their nutrition articles that came with it, and became a group exercise instructor, became a personal trainer. All of that was to help supplement the very low paying initial job in journalism where you couldn't really make rent and everyone had a second job. So this evolution and this fusion of movement and wellness and then the things I was drawn to specifically around nutrition, they were there. It was kind of bubbling under the surface. Worked in news for seven years. If I could have been a health reporter, I might have stayed. But ⁓ you had to do all terrain, if you will. You had to cover everything. And I just continued to deep dive the nutrition aspect of it. And I thought, ⁓ I'll go take I'll go take a nutrition class just for fun, just for fun. And found I was so intrigued, I was so interested and was reading those kinds of books independently. I thought, you know what, maybe this isn't a hobby. Maybe this isn't that just fill the gap, income gap. Maybe this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's crazy. You know, it's funny, as you were talking about it, it reminded me of, had my second daughter. So here I am a dietician, new dietician, had my first kid. like, have my PhD in nutrition. I know it all. Went to nurse and I failed breastfeeding. Like it was so hard. I was in so much pain that after that, I was like, I'm gonna become a lactation consultant because when I have another kid, I cannot endure this pain again. And the, you know, the trauma associated with Meridan Zerner: Thank you. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: with lactation. I do think sometimes it's like it's a personal endeavor. And then you're like, wait a minute. Like I actually really like this. Maybe I could have this whole career on this. And I still practice lactation today, you know, with friends and family and stuff like that. But it's, it's so powerful. think nutrition, because you can connect with humans, right. And you can connect with their everyday life that it makes it so much easier to learn. it makes it so much easier to connect with them. Meridan Zerner: And that connection, I love that word, and I do think that's going to be ⁓ where dieticians will always be needed, always be needed. And yes, we're creative and we can offer in the trenches real life solutions and things for people to try on, but it really is that connection, that support, that motivation and encouragement that you just can't recreate in other ways. ⁓ I feel like... it's important to have the evidence-based background. And leaving journalism, I recognized that and went to go get the master's degree because if you're going to really help people connect but offer up ideas and strategies and information, it's just gotta be evidence-based. It's gotta be evidence-informed and... I love tailoring it for the individual. It will always be about the individual at the same time. Ethically, I want to offer up ⁓ ideas and pathways that have chops, that have science behind them. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: No, mean, trust me, I'm a researcher. I love science. I can nerd out over science. And sometimes I bring academics on here. We just dive deep into science. It's super fun. So let's talk about your journey, right? So you're in journalism, television news. You decided you want to be a dietician, plus all these other additional credentials, exercise, wellness. What has got you to open your own practice now today? What kind of roles have you had? And then what do you do in your current practice? Meridan Zerner: So I had about 25 years at a pioneering preventive medicine facility ⁓ here, where I live in Dallas at the moment, and was able to do a lot of cool things, wellness programming, ⁓ one-on-one consultations, working with ⁓ the clinic staff, with physicians in a preventive medicine capacity. And then I did some of our public relations and used this skill. My parents are so happy. I got some use out of that degree. to be able to communicate health messaging and the amazing career that it has been up to this point, I really felt drawn to some of these passion projects that really had to take the back burner for a long time, where it's like, you know what, if I have my own business, then I can do more speaking, I can reach more people, I can craft and draft ⁓ programming that... I can just put out there that doesn't have to have 20 hands in it, which means it gets delayed in ⁓ releasing. So I just felt like this was the time, whether you want to call it a pivot year or years, plural. I'm kind of a slow pivoter, but I really wanted to be able to say more, do more. And here we are. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So how did you ultimately make that decision? I think a lot of people have been in the workplaces, had careers in nutrition for a long time, and they've tinkered with this idea of going out on their own and creating their own programming and doing media or presentations or whatever have you. What was kind of like that box to tip you over the edge to be able to make that decision? Meridan Zerner: what I do wanna lead with, it's always scary. And there's fear, there is still fear, like there's fear. And so I think that holds people back. It certainly held me back. I might've taken this deeper dive 10 years ago, but I was like, well, what if, and then this, and maybe I should have a PhD, or maybe I should have two PhDs, and maybe somebody's gonna do it better, say it differently, and I would... love to encourage young dietitians, ⁓ dietitians newer to the field, or maybe even somebody who's my age and ⁓ seasoning to just say, it a shot, because people need to hear you. We need those straightforward, compassionate, ⁓ wise voices out there. So it doesn't come without a little bit of risk. It doesn't come without a little bit of fear, and it's still okay. What's the worst that could happen? Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: And one of the things that I really love of the field of nutrition is you can kind of weave in and out of roles too. Like you could go on your own and then you may find an opportunity that brings you back into clinical practice, right? Like you're not stuck in that niche. So I do think that is, that's an asset that we have as a profession to be able to be varied across industries and across sectors. So let's. Meridan Zerner: Absolutely. I try to share that too with our interns and to mentor to be like, hey, know, if you're thinking it could just be clinical, which is amazing, or if you're thinking it's just private practice, amazing, but you can do some of this and some of that and you could go speak and you can have a blog. And I think ⁓ that there's so much flexibility and opportunity. There's really, one of my favorite words is abundance. There's a lot of abundance here and there's room for everyone. ⁓ and I want to support other dieticians as they're up and coming. ⁓ My good friend Cindy just put out another book, she's a dietician. I just think when we support one another that everybody wins. We win and our clients win. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, and we all have the same goal, right? Every person, if you become a dietician, your goal is to help people become healthier, right? And so that may be through a book, that may be through a podcast, that may be through clinical practice or private practice, whatever you are in, or maybe it's coming from the food industry to create better for you products, right? And so I agree with you. Like I would love our profession to stop dogging each other on social media of like, Can you believe they work there? Like the other day I was on Facebook and someone, you know, was part of my work. We were putting out a webinar and they blasted it on a Facebook group saying, can you believe that this company is putting this webinar together? Like how biased? And so I actually jumped in. I'm like, I actually work for that company. I would love to understand. Like we just try and create content to better support you, right? Like here. And so it was really fascinating. said, I'm going to read all the comments, not because I'm going to argue with you, but I want to learn. I want to understand what are you frustrated with? What sort of content would you like to see? And I think if we can, as, as nutrition professionals come with this open mind of everything has a place, right? Just like whether it's an internship or it's a commodity board or it's an industry or a private practice, like you may go give a presentation and shout out your private practice. because that's what you do, right? That doesn't mean you're just doing the presentation for business. And so I think sometimes we need to have this open mind that we all are in it together and every nutrition professional each provides their own way to input to ultimately better human health. Meridan Zerner: Right. And I liked that open mind idea, that remaining curious about possibilities. think that, again, I think our clients benefit from that. And at the end of the day, I think we all have a little bit of bias, right? So to call out degrees of bias, I don't know that that really serves us. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, it's a way for us to come together, right? And to come and support the profession. So let's dive a little bit deeper. So what do you do, owning your own practice, the founder and CEO, like, what does your day-to-day look like? How do you get new business? And what does that look like? Meridan Zerner: So now, and it has changed, ⁓ which is fun, now it looks quite a bit like wake up in the morning, do ⁓ heavy duty reading. ⁓ Typically it's gonna be some journals and a little catch up, whatever brain health book might be out and about just to kind of get a sense of. ⁓ What's out there? What can I learn today? What are my clients reading so I can speak to it? So I do a little bit of reading. Inevitably, there'll be a couple of consults and whether they're in person or zoom on any given day. I carve out time for writing. So I've got a book coming out and whether it's a blog or a book or I'm writing up possible proposals for TV segments, like, hey, everyone's talking about this fun little TikTok trend. Here's what you might want to consider. So I'm just kind of putting together some of those proposals. How do I connect? It is at this point in my career, a lot of it is word of mouth. and it is ⁓ sort of shared resources. And so whether it's ⁓ like a DPG thing that we all ⁓ may belong to through the Academy, the Nutrition Academy, I get a lot of those connections there. And I've built a lot of community here, which has been very intentional. And I think when you can go out and speak in your community, when you can go out and volunteer, even in a food or dietetic capacity in your community, you meet amazing people and it really builds your base. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: What, and I think every time you go and have an interaction, whether that's a one-on-one consult or a presentation, it opens doors to other opportunities, right? Like I know sometimes when I present, people are like, ⁓ I really like that. Could you present here on this topic? And so I think there's always doors of opportunities, but I also like how you talked about, it's also your network. Like you've built these connections over time. This isn't this. I'm starting on my own. know no one. I'm a total introvert and I'm just praying for opportunity. You you really have to build the opportunities out there. That's kind of what I'm hearing for you. Meridan Zerner: Yes, and I think it's okay if you're an introvert too, by the way. It just may be that you're gonna have to build that community in a quieter way or use your resources differently. And I think everyone's gifted with some amazing, amazing skills and ⁓ gosh, the introverts of the world, they've got skills. They just have to harness them. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ⁓ yeah, it's so funny. So I'm a hardcore extrovert, my husband hardcore introvert. And so we'll go out and like we're polar opposites, but we make each other work. He balances me and I bring him down or I bring him up and he brings me down kind of in energy levels. So it is really fun. want to, I want to ask another follow up question too, with your journalism and television background, how do you feel like that's an asset to you when you're going out and doing some of these speaking engagements? What sort of tips or advice would you have for someone who maybe doesn't have that extensive background in journalism and television, but wants to do that speaking engagements? Meridan Zerner: So I think it's an asset in that you're taught to appreciate whatever the story is. And for us, it would be maybe the research paper or the subject matter, right? So you're taught to kind of flip it over, look at it from both sides, look underneath. Is there some other? aspect that we could ⁓ make more accessible, easier to understand because in news you're going to take this massive study and maybe somebody else has boiled it down to two paragraphs and that's what gets delivered to the newsroom. And our job still is to take that and make it translatable. And there's a simplicity there sometimes. And so I think, I think that skill alone is really valuable. And then recognizing that all of us have practiced at this. So you don't really have to have gone through a journalism curriculum. you just get to practice. And so you practice in front of small groups. You practice doing this kind of thing to know what do I want to say next? Do I have my three points? If they ask you a question and you don't know the answer to that, it's okay to say, you know, I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is, and you bridge it back to your message. And so there's little things like that that can be learned, practiced, taught. ⁓ I think there are even some academy-supported CEU opportunities around that for sure. those are not things that you just have to be born with. Skills you learn. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: One, I've taken a number of media trainings and you're right, these are just skills that you learn. And you may only build one skill at a time, but one of my favorite things that you just said is simplicity. Sometimes I think we wanna take this whole brain of knowledge and pour it in on someone and just be like, here's everything you need to know. And scientists love to do this too. They like to say how this gene interacts with the food, right? And it's like, okay, super fascinating. However, what does that mean? So I always used to give examples when I used to teach a research method class, like boil that down into less than 30 seconds, pitch it and tell a story about what that was and what was the outcome in less than 30 seconds. And if you can do that, now all of a people are gonna wanna listen to you. As soon as you start to go down this rabbit hole with all the intricate details, you'll lose people and they're not gonna be paying attention. So simplicity is your friend in media segments, in presentations, less is more. Okay, married at. Meridan Zerner: And you just said tell a story too. And I think there's a lot to that, like organic delivery, organic conversation. Use a visual, tell a story, use an example. And I think that is incredibly translatable and helps all of our different kinds of learners, I think, take that, whatever you're trying to get to, and get them to see it, feel it. And then it's just your amazing personality that nudges them forward. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: when honestly, I think this is why influencer is so successful. Because when you watch an influencer on TikTok or whatever channel you're on, they hook you in. Like you are like, wow, this like I've been watching and I've getting, I'm getting deep. I'm gonna open up my personal life here a little bit. I've been watching a homesteader and she's like, she's a chicken farmer. She's got, mean, she's got all sorts of livestock. And I come home and I'm like, I'm telling my husband, I'm going to start making gummy bears from scratch, you know, because this influencer has now like opened my eyes. She's like, ⁓ it looks that easy. Well, I made what gummy bears from scratch with my kids. They were God awful. So sometimes the storytelling is really good, but also I would bridge it with us as clinicians and nutrition professionals, no practicality. A lot of times, like we really know what practical is in people's lives. So bridge the storytelling with something that's practical that someone can do. ⁓ And try making your own gummy bears and see how those turn out. Meridan Zerner: I'm actually super curious now. think I may have to take that on. A, I love gummy bears. It's a dietary Achilles heel that I always find a little room for, but ooh, making my own. Hmm, maybe. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I hope yours come out better than mine. So let's dive a little bit deeper. You talked about science in the beginning. And as a scientist, mean, I appreciate the master's degree really in the sense of you get a better, deeper understanding of science, which you don't always get in an undergraduate degree. So I know that's controversial, but I do think there's value. How does scientific evidence and data impact what you do in your day to day? Meridan Zerner: if I may use a visual, I view it ⁓ wholeheartedly as almost like bumpers in the bowling alley or parentheses. ⁓ They're hard stops for me. So within that, I can work down the lane with people, meaning... this is where we're going to begin, this is where we're going to play, this is important because this is about your health and wellbeing, it's about ethics and practice, and there's space for individuality, culture, preference. You need to microwave that and it has to be grab and go. We're going to work within that. So it really helps me set up strong... boundaries. Plus I'm a terrible bowler so the bumpers in the bowling alley is really appropriate for me also. ⁓ And I feel like when we can meet people where they are and it isn't necessarily always over here and it's not necessarily over here either, as a human will probably ebb and flow. I feel like that's where science makes the most sense in my practice. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I've never gotten that example, but I love that example because I think the lane is wide, right? And there's so many different ways that you can support a person in their health and wellness journey. And that looks different for everyone. I don't think anyone can throw the exact same bully ball the same way anytime it hit the pins. My kids and I just went bowling last weekend. Let me tell you, my six year old beat our entire family. So not one of my strong suits, but what... I think the point that you're getting across there is that you can have that personalization, bringing in mind every factor of how that person needs to better their health and wellness. But you also do have these hard boundaries. Like these are things that we know that are consistent in the literature and that are a practice guideline. So I really like how you talked about that to say, yes, you follow the science, but you also tailor it to the individual. And I think one day maybe know, 30 years down the line will really have better personalized medicine that people have been wanting for a long time. I think with more data and technologies and AI, like we'll be able to be better at it, but we can practice in this lane for now. So I thought that was really good. Meridan Zerner: think that's a dietitian superpower too, by the way. I know that there are some concerns. We don't really quite know all that AI is going to do, but in the world of dietitians being able to... flow to kind of work with it. Again, we're going to offer up the strongest, most ⁓ meaningful evidence-based foundation and then have people try it on. This is where motivational interviewing comes in. This is where the mindful eating comes in. This is where we learn more about behavior change and coaching ⁓ humans who make mistakes and... ⁓ need small wins and maybe want to just try on one change at a time. Like this is a dietitian superpower, I think, to be able to take all this information that we had in our degrees and continue to gain and deliver it and just shift it a little to the right, a little to the left, depending on what people are experiencing. I don't want my dietitians to forget that. You've got some serious superpowers there. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I think it's. when it all boils down to connection. And I don't think AI will be able to replace that. will be able to replace a lot of the data, the technologies, the efficiencies, but the connection with people of understanding their particular nuance. What is their socioeconomic status? What cultural foods are important to them? What do they like? Sometimes it's like, well, that sounds really good. A tofu scramble. like, I don't like tofu. Meridan Zerner: Yeah, it's kind of a hard sale for some people. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's just a personal choice. A tofu scramble may be good for someone else, but not for me. And so I think there is this really nice ⁓ lane with some boundaries, but ultimately the connection I think is a dietitian superpower. And that connection is on the individual level, but I think that connection is across all industries and sectors too, right? You have connection within agriculture, within the food industry, within health technologies. Like you have to be able to bridge that. connection and build that connection across all of those. So Meriden, you've had quite a career, I would say. I loved your start in journalism and where you are today of owning your own business. But what's been your most favorite or something you're most proud of so far? Meridan Zerner: Ooh, ⁓ everyone says they're ⁓ So my kids, but not career oriented. ⁓ Although I will say my son who is at St. Louis University and he's shifted from physical therapy into a neuroscience track. So he wants to go pre-med, but his minor is nutrition. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: feel like that's every dietician's dream. Like, please, can you study or at least appreciate nutrition? Meridan Zerner: Yeah, and he decided he wanted to run a half Ironman and he came home and, you know, just one of those moments where he was like, hey, mom, because I'm a sports performance CSSD. He said, hey, mom, would you be able to like, you know, help me with like the fueling for this? I was like, like, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, I can totally do that. So, gosh, ⁓ I Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: You're like, Demian, go Demian! Meridan Zerner: I actually think in my career, the things that have mattered the most that I'm probably the most proud of, I am in a museum, I am in a science museum. So I think I might be one of the only dieticians in the nation to be showcased in the Perot Museum of Nature and Science. And I love that dieticians, you know, got a little kiosk and a little shout out so you can go tap on my face and I talk about nutrition. Yeah, I'm proud of that. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: How cool. Wait, you cannot move on from that. Give me more details. How did this happen? That is so cool. And where is the museum? Meridan Zerner: When they were building this Perot Museum of Nature and Science in Dallas, Texas, ⁓ they had an entire floor. It's a permanent exhibit that was gonna be about sport and performance. So you can go and race a dinosaur or race a cheetah. You can go and swing a baseball bat and they'll compare it, your swing to that of a professional player. There's lots of cool things you can do in there. But the creators said, you know, we should probably have a nutrition component. So there's a fun little kiosk and it's like, hey, what's a dietician? What do you do? And did a little culinary healthy snack thing and just answered a few questions. But it really meant a lot because I know I'm touching young lives and there's a lot to be said for that. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That is so cool. I love those like little random niche facts. Yeah, that needs to be announced widely. And if you, mean, what a great inspiration too, because not only is that cool to have representation as a dietician, but I love that you're also showcasing that to young kids. And I think so many people, especially people that I've interviewed on this podcast, they don't find they want to be a dietician until they're halfway through college, getting a second degree. 20 years down the road. And it's like, if we can showcase what this profession is at those young ages, through children all the way through middle elementary school to high school, we can really bridge more people into the profession. So that's super cool. That's probably the coolest one, the coolest fun fact I've had. So kudos to you. So what tips or suggestions would you give to someone who is interested in a career like yours? So like I said, you've had a varied career. How Meridan Zerner: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: what tips would you give for them to be able to kind of balance and navigate those various career pivots that you've made, albeit slowly? Meridan Zerner: So I think having a strong foundation in science gives you so many opportunities out of the gate. ⁓ Remaining open and curious to opportunities and to ⁓ piecing together a career, think that's really important to share. ⁓ I would really encourage folks heading into our field and those interns that I mentor. to look closely at the behavioral change piece because we know so many facts and figures and To better understand people, to help them more effectively is to understand, yeah, they know what they're supposed to be doing, they're just not doing it, but that's really where the conversation starts. Like, tell me more about why that's hard for you. These open-ended questions and appreciating that, yeah, human beings don't change well in overhaul, but they do, can change, and it's usually with a little structure and support and... where we can empower them to make the decisions that they know that they can make. I don't know, I think there's a lot to be said for this understanding of mind and body. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I mean, I think you're speaking my language. I think there's so much. And again, I remember myself as a young practitioner. You just have this brain full and full of knowledge that you just want to pour out on someone. And that's great. It really is great. But knowledge only is a piece of the puzzle. If we want to actually change behavior, it's knowledge, practicality, and then follow up and consistency. And that's really hard. I've been wanting to floss daily. for like seven years. like, I'm gonna do it. And then I go to the dentist and they're like, Chris said, you're still not doing it. I'm like, I know. Because getting that ingrained into your routine behavior is really hard. And I haven't found a successful behavior change tip to be able to get me there. And I think that's where a lot of our patients and clients are. They're at this like, I have a dream of doing that, but I don't know how to get there. What do you think? Meridan Zerner: will light. Are you? Well, I got to give you a little tip on the flossing real quick. Are you ready? Here we go. You got to eat more chia. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ⁓ yeah, please. And if it's successful, you're going to go down as the best self-enrollment advisor. ⁓ because then it gets stuck in your teeth? Meridan Zerner: If you eat more chia seed, it gets all up in there and you're going to have to floss because it's clear and obvious and apparent. So chia is the inspiration for flossing. ⁓ and great fiber and omegas, but nonetheless. Yeah, so I'm kidding, but I think. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's hilarious, I mean it's a good strategy. That's really smart. Meridan Zerner: like a little something right in the middle. So you gotta floss that. anyway, yes, behavior change habits, challenging, and I think helping people get to the root of their why. without judgment, offering empathy and helping them clarify, here's some things we can try. And if this first pathway doesn't work for you, that's okay. We've got this other one to try and the one after that, and then we get to reassess. It's like trying on a coat. How does it fit right now? It's a little too tight. Maybe we need to take that coat off and try on another one. And again, I think that's just what dieticians do really, really well. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: When I think they can curate different assessments and different ways to get people to their end goal, their why, based on what they're hearing and learning. And you're right, I don't think the first time you try anything, it's always this grand slam, like you did it, you changed that behavior, but we can kind of navigate. And I do think that is where dieticians and nutrition experts really do have that skillset to bridge what people want to do, what they aspire to do, and then what... they can actually do. Because sometimes those are also disconnected. So I like that. I think the behavior change piece is really important. And I think that's something that you can continue to grow. There's a lot of workshops and continuing education out there, both with the Academy and also with a number of different dietitians. So this is not like you just have to learn on the job. You can take some of these additional courses and training, some free, some costs, you know, money. But that way you can grow as a practitioner, because you're going to grow as a practitioner no matter what. Like you'll grow with every webinar you take, I learned something different and I integrated in. And sometimes, you know, it's not even relevant to my day to day, but sometimes it's like, okay, I didn't know that fact. Now, hopefully when I go to trivia on Tuesday night, one of those facts will come up and I'm gonna get that answer right. So Meriden, last question, which is my favorite. If you had a crystal ball, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Meridan Zerner: I strongly believe that there's going to be a lot more legitimate study and opportunity around genetics, our unique genetic codes and other things that we may have going on. look forward to the deeper dive. which is ongoing, but I think we're gonna learn more and more and more about this lovely landscape that is the microbiome. An area that's near and dear to my heart is how the microbiome influences mood, our serotonin neurotransmitters, and that we can influence that even through the foods we eat, the fiber we choose to take in, and I love the possibilities of the diet really. positively influencing ⁓ psychology, psychiatry, right? Just the brain chemistry piece of it. So I think we're gonna see more on that. I think from a crystal ball standpoint, the lens that we'll look through. will be broader, it will be again a little more mind-body, really looking at brain health, connected to gut health, connected to heart health, and how the recipe for wellness and well-being, and longevity is the trendy word, is, it has to include all of those things. We have to move the body, we have to get good sleep, managing stress, and that will look different for you as it might look for me or the person next to me, but nobody rides for free. Like, we're gonna have to find ways to incorporate all of those things if we want to take care of all of these organs and these different disease challenges. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: When I know from the scientific literature, years ago, we used to just focus on individual nutrients or individual foods that eat this food and this is the output. And then it started to converge into dietary patterns. Eat this dietary pattern for this cardiovascular output. And now you're actually starting to see the scientific literature kind of converge a little bit. Like, does this dietary pattern with all these accompanying foods and different key nutrients, things like proteins and fibers and phytonutrients, Do those help not only cardiovascular systems, but also cognitive systems, right? And so I think we've been like isolating one at a time. And now I think there is this like whole body matrix. And one of the things that I think is super fascinating is this whole food matrix of how, how does whole food, a literal a whole food. if it's a whole apple, how would that behave differently than let's say you supplement fiber, which would be equivalent to the fiber in an apple because I think we've gotten so far of like, okay, we need all these additional nutrients of fiber and creatine and vitamin B12 and vitamin D and now people are taking a billion supplements when it's like, actually that's in our food. What if we just ate that food for all of our systems? Meridan Zerner: Right. And there's relationships in there we're just learning that much more about where it's like, well, hey, it's going to have to be in the presence of this phytochemical and this little micro shift over here. And if you had a little fat that came in from a whole food source, now you can unlock it more effectively. And so it's deeply complex, fabulously complex, and it keeps coming back to this whole food dietary pattern to the best of our abilities. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yeah, no, I think that crystal ball is right. can't, I'm buckled up. I'm excited to continue to see the scientific literature change over the next several decades to really give us more amplified information all the way from our genetics to our microbiome to the foods we eat and the convergence of all of those. So Mary-Dyn, thank you so much for being on the show. If you like the podcast, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review, but most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring out a different dietitian and nutrition expert. to tell their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.