Latest / River City Mystery - Investigating mysteries in southern Indiana, southern Illinois, and western Kentucky / The Disappearance of Debra Ann Wilhite

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The Disappearance of Debra Ann Wilhite · River City Mystery - Investigating mysteries in southern Indiana, southern Illinois, and western Kentucky

0:00
Speaker: One of Debbie's younger sisters came to her mother because her
0:05
Speaker: friend was just freaking out and crying and talking about some
0:11
Speaker: craziness or whatever.
0:12
Speaker: So mom went and spoke to her, and she said that the friend of
0:16
Speaker: Debbie's sister said that her father had told her that he had
0:22
Speaker: shot Debbie in the head, put her body in the trunk of the car,
0:26
Speaker: and shot gunned the car into a stripper pit that was filled
0:30
Speaker: with water that was nicknamed the Duck Pond.
0:36
Speaker: Every time we're together, it's overshadowed by the fact that
0:41
Speaker: someone's missing someone.
0:43
Speaker: Very important.
0:45
Speaker: I went to pry it, and when I kicked the door in.
0:48
Speaker: Next thing you know was all you seen was my brother, and he was
0:51
Speaker: slumped over on the couch.
0:53
Speaker: And I mean, blood just coming from everywhere.
0:56
Speaker: I offered the cops to go and
0:59
Speaker: take them to the exact spot I
1:02
Speaker: pulled over him when I turned
1:03
Speaker: around.
1:04
Speaker: I pulled over and I called my wife and I'm watching him out my
1:07
Speaker: rear view mirror and he's walking towards the tracks where
1:12
Speaker: he went from there after I left from that spot.
1:15
Speaker: I don't know, I was there at Saint Joe and Diamond working,
1:19
Speaker: you know, mid-morning, you know, my cell phone rings.
1:23
Speaker: I don't recognize the number.
1:26
Speaker: So this woman, I didn't
1:28
Speaker: recognize her because she was
1:29
Speaker: distressed.
1:31
Speaker: She she says, this man come in and shot me.
1:39
Speaker: Welcome to this episode of River City Mystery, the podcast where
1:42
Speaker: we look into the mysteries of southern Indiana, southern
1:44
Speaker: Illinois, and Western Kentucky.
1:47
Speaker: In this episode, we're going to be digging into one of the
1:49
Speaker: Tri-State area's oldest missing persons cases, the case of
1:53
Speaker: Debra Ann Wilhite.
1:56
Speaker: Imagine being only eighteen months old when your mom just
2:00
Speaker: vanishes into thin air.
2:02
Speaker: Then just two years later, you lose your dad in a freak car
2:06
Speaker: accident, and a couple years after that, your only sister
2:10
Speaker: passes away from leukemia.
2:13
Speaker: It sounds like a horrible movie
2:15
Speaker: script from hell, but for Misty
2:17
Speaker: Lynn Walker, it's her actual
2:19
Speaker: life.
2:20
Speaker: Misty has been left behind with
2:22
Speaker: a mountain of unanswered
2:23
Speaker: questions.
2:25
Speaker: And today, she's on a relentless, deeply personal
2:28
Speaker: mission to find out what happened with her mom.
2:32
Speaker: This mystery goes all the way back to October 14,
2:35
Speaker: 1974.
2:37
Speaker: Misty's mom, 19-year-old Debra Ann Wilhite.
2:40
Speaker: Everybody knew her, as Debbie had just finished up her shift
2:43
Speaker: as a waitress at the Windmill Restaurant on highway forty one
2:46
Speaker: in Evansville, Indiana.
2:48
Speaker: This is located.
2:49
Speaker: For those familiar with the area.
2:50
Speaker: This is located at the.
2:52
Speaker: Where the Dairy Queen is at 41 and Petersburg Road.
2:56
Speaker: There's also a Windmill Marathon station right there.
2:59
Speaker: So Debbie had just finished her shift and she was supposed to go
3:02
Speaker: pick up her husband after work.
3:04
Speaker: She'd walked out to her green 1966 Ford Galaxie
3:08
Speaker: and basically fell off the face of the earth.
3:11
Speaker: She was never seen again.
3:13
Speaker: There have been no phone calls,
3:15
Speaker: no letters, no trace of the car
3:18
Speaker: just gone.
3:20
Speaker: In this episode, Misty and I
3:22
Speaker: have a conversation about what
3:23
Speaker: it's been like to navigate a
3:24
Speaker: decades long search for the
3:25
Speaker: truth.
3:26
Speaker: We discuss some of the theories of the case, like a mysterious
3:30
Speaker: hitchhiker who had just hopped off a cattle truck from Indy,
3:33
Speaker: and a rumor about a stripper pit known as the Duck Pond.
3:36
Speaker: We also talk about the
3:37
Speaker: frustrating roadblocks she's
3:38
Speaker: hit, trying to get police files,
3:40
Speaker: and how volunteer sonar teams
3:42
Speaker: are helping her look for the
3:43
Speaker: car.
3:44
Speaker: And we also talk about how she's
3:45
Speaker: taking the investigation into
3:47
Speaker: her own hands by starting a
3:48
Speaker: website searching for Debra dot
3:50
Speaker: com.
3:52
Speaker: This is a story about a daughter
3:53
Speaker: who refuses to let her mother be
3:55
Speaker: forgotten.
3:56
Speaker: Misty, thank you so much for being here today.
3:59
Speaker: Well, thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.
4:02
Speaker: You're welcome.
4:03
Speaker: Well, I'll just start with who
4:05
Speaker: was Debra Ann Wilhite, who was
4:07
Speaker: Debbie?
4:08
Speaker: And she went by Debby mostly.
4:10
Speaker: She was born Debra Ann Pfettcher.
4:14
Speaker: Um, and that starts with a P as in Paul “p f e”, not an “F”. And her
4:20
Speaker: parents were Lucille and Irwin.
4:23
Speaker: She had two little sisters.
4:25
Speaker: She went to Tecumseh High School, but she did drop out.
4:30
Speaker: And she married my father, Jeff Wilhite, in 1970.
4:37
Speaker: So she was born in 1954.
4:39
Speaker: She went to Girl Scout Camp in
4:43
Speaker: 1968, and by
4:44
Speaker: 1970 she was
4:46
Speaker: fifteen.
4:47
Speaker: And she was married.
4:48
Speaker: Wow.
4:49
Speaker: Okay.
4:49
Speaker: Um, which I just was looking at
4:52
Speaker: her scrapbooks and I realized
4:54
Speaker: that she had in her scrapbook,
4:55
Speaker: she had Girl Scout camp and all
4:57
Speaker: these pictures.
4:57
Speaker: And like, she literally was married two years after this.
5:00
Speaker: She was just a child, right?
5:02
Speaker: So she was fifteen years old and
5:04
Speaker: she married Jeff Wilhite in
5:06
Speaker: nineteen seventy.
5:08
Speaker: In 1971, they
5:09
Speaker: had their first child, my older
5:11
Speaker: sister, Amy.
5:12
Speaker: Mhm.
5:13
Speaker: And then I was born in 1973.
5:17
Speaker: So when her disappearance
5:20
Speaker: happened, it was nineteen
5:22
Speaker: seventy four.
5:24
Speaker: She had just started working at
5:26
Speaker: the Windmill, which now is a
5:30
Speaker: Dairy Queen and the Windmill
5:32
Speaker: Marathon and Bakery on Highway
5:34
Speaker: 41 in Evansville,
5:35
Speaker: Indiana.
5:37
Speaker: Um, at that time, the Windmill, it was a motel.
5:41
Speaker: It had a restaurant.
5:42
Speaker: It had a garage.
5:43
Speaker: It had a service station on, on that property.
5:46
Speaker: So it was kind of a popular truck stop because it was on the
5:49
Speaker: highway and she had just started working there, I think just like
5:54
Speaker: a week before.
5:55
Speaker: Not very long at all as a waitress in the restaurant.
5:59
Speaker: So her and my father shared my dad's car.
6:05
Speaker: My father worked at American
6:07
Speaker: Dairy, which was originally in
6:09
Speaker: Evansville.
6:10
Speaker: And, um, as well.
6:12
Speaker: So they shared that car.
6:13
Speaker: So I'm under the assumption that
6:15
Speaker: he was already at work at
6:17
Speaker: American Dairy, and she dropped
6:20
Speaker: me and my sister off at her
6:22
Speaker: mother's.
6:23
Speaker: Lucille.
6:24
Speaker: Okay.
6:24
Speaker: Before she went to work and they shared a car.
6:27
Speaker: Correct?
6:28
Speaker: Is that right?
6:28
Speaker: Right.
6:28
Speaker: They shared his car.
6:30
Speaker: Okay, okay.
6:31
Speaker: Um, so that's what she was driving.
6:32
Speaker: It was a 1966 Ford Galaxie, a two door.
6:38
Speaker: It was some shade of green that is still left to be determined.
6:43
Speaker: Some family members have said it was teal.
6:46
Speaker: Other others have said it was
6:49
Speaker: more of a, you know, lighter
6:51
Speaker: green.
6:52
Speaker: As of right now, I don't have any actual photos of the car.
6:55
Speaker: So she dropped the kids off at her mother, Lucille's, and it
6:59
Speaker: was just a normal day.
7:01
Speaker: She did her laundry at her mom's, so she did some laundry.
7:05
Speaker: She put the basket of clean clothes in the trunk of the car
7:10
Speaker: and went to work.
7:12
Speaker: She worked her shift at the Windmill.
7:15
Speaker: Two things happened while she was working.
7:17
Speaker: One of the things was my dad called her and said that she
7:23
Speaker: could pick him up at Maple Heights Tavern, which was there
7:29
Speaker: at the time.
7:29
Speaker: It now is Ponytail Lounge.
7:33
Speaker: Okay.
7:34
Speaker: Yes, I think that's that's the
7:36
Speaker: location where it was at that
7:38
Speaker: time.
7:39
Speaker: So she said, yes, I'll pick you up when I'm done working.
7:42
Speaker: The other thing that happened
7:44
Speaker: was she was seeing, and this
7:46
Speaker: came from the manager and a
7:48
Speaker: co-worker.
7:49
Speaker: Like a year later, when the Indiana State Police took over
7:52
Speaker: the investigation, They said she was seen speaking to a man.
7:57
Speaker: Um, it was raining that night.
7:59
Speaker: Mhm.
8:00
Speaker: And they overheard him telling
8:03
Speaker: her that he had hitchhiked there
8:07
Speaker: on a cattle truck from
8:09
Speaker: Indianapolis.
8:10
Speaker: And he was needing to get to Evansville.
8:12
Speaker: And he asked her for a ride.
8:15
Speaker: One of those people said they
8:18
Speaker: thought that they knew each
8:19
Speaker: other.
8:20
Speaker: The other person said, I don't think she knew him.
8:23
Speaker: I think it was a stranger.
8:25
Speaker: She worked her shift and she left.
8:29
Speaker: It is not known if she gave this man a ride or not, but that was
8:36
Speaker: the last time that she was seen.
8:38
Speaker: And that was October fourteenth, nineteen seventy four.
8:42
Speaker: So that was the last time that she was seen.
8:45
Speaker: Of course, they always look at
8:47
Speaker: the, you know, the spouse, the
8:49
Speaker: boyfriend.
8:49
Speaker: They always look there first.
8:51
Speaker: So they lived in Princeton at this time.
8:55
Speaker: And and I think as Gibson County.
8:58
Speaker: Yes.
8:59
Speaker: So originally my father went to the local police in Gibson
9:05
Speaker: County, and it sounds terrible, but so my mom ran around.
9:11
Speaker: She would be gone for a couple of days.
9:13
Speaker: It wasn't an uncommon thing, which I mean, by the time she
9:17
Speaker: was eighteen, she was married and had two children.
9:21
Speaker: She never had really a childhood.
9:23
Speaker: So anyway, I have no judgment about that.
9:25
Speaker: Originally, my father thought that she had left him.
9:29
Speaker: She thought that she had just taken off and taken his car.
9:34
Speaker: And so on the sixteenth of October, he went to the local
9:40
Speaker: police there to report his car stolen, that she stole his car.
9:45
Speaker: And I don't know if she was also on the title, but it ended up
9:49
Speaker: where they said, well, we can't report the car stolen, but you
9:53
Speaker: can report her missing.
9:54
Speaker: So he reported her missing.
9:56
Speaker: He also said that she may be pregnant.
10:00
Speaker: That was never confirmed.
10:01
Speaker: We. You know, there's no way to know, but.
10:05
Speaker: But he thought so because he.
10:06
Speaker: That's what he had reported to the police at the time.
10:09
Speaker: Yes.
10:09
Speaker: He thought that she might be pregnant.
10:11
Speaker: Okay.
10:11
Speaker: Wow.
10:12
Speaker: And this was two days after she
10:14
Speaker: actually had disappeared, that
10:17
Speaker: he reports to the Gibson County
10:18
Speaker: police that she's not come back
10:20
Speaker: home.
10:21
Speaker: Right.
10:22
Speaker: And you guys, were you and your
10:23
Speaker: sister were at your Grandma
10:25
Speaker: Lucille's house?
10:26
Speaker: Yes.
10:27
Speaker: And so for that theory, for her to have just left, you're just
10:31
Speaker: left with your grandma.
10:33
Speaker: If we're to believe that, she just took off.
10:35
Speaker: Right.
10:36
Speaker: And my, um, Lucille raised me,
10:39
Speaker: so I. I always called her mom,
10:41
Speaker: right?
10:42
Speaker: She always said yes.
10:44
Speaker: She had left a couple days and would come back.
10:47
Speaker: Yes, she did that.
10:48
Speaker: That happened.
10:49
Speaker: But she always said she would never leave you girls.
10:53
Speaker: And like if she planned on leaving, why would she have
10:57
Speaker: washed her clothes?
10:58
Speaker: Because my mama told me that most of our clothes was in the
11:02
Speaker: trunk of the car because she had just washed them, right?
11:05
Speaker: That doesn't make any sense.
11:06
Speaker: Yeah.
11:06
Speaker: It doesn't it doesn't make any sense.
11:09
Speaker: So that is how that all started.
11:13
Speaker: So she was nineteen.
11:15
Speaker: She would have been turning twenty like a month later.
11:20
Speaker: The the employees at that she
11:23
Speaker: worked with at the windmill
11:24
Speaker: restaurant.
11:25
Speaker: They thought that she might know that man that she was talking
11:29
Speaker: to, do you know, was he talking to her in the restaurant or were
11:32
Speaker: they in the parking lot?
11:33
Speaker: Or do you know where they were talking?
11:35
Speaker: It was in the restaurant.
11:38
Speaker: Okay.
11:38
Speaker: And I wonder what made them think or what made one of them
11:42
Speaker: think that, that she knew him.
11:44
Speaker: I, you know, it's hard to tell.
11:46
Speaker: Waitresses are typically just
11:48
Speaker: friendly because that's part of
11:50
Speaker: their job.
11:50
Speaker: So it could have been that aspect of it made it look like
11:53
Speaker: she knew him, and he was just like an average looking man with
11:59
Speaker: dark hair, average height, like there's there was no outstanding
12:04
Speaker: characteristics that made him stand out in any way.
12:07
Speaker: The story is that he had hitched
12:10
Speaker: a ride from a cattle truck down
12:12
Speaker: from Indianapolis, and he was
12:15
Speaker: somehow ended up there, and he
12:16
Speaker: asked for a ride somewhere to
12:17
Speaker: Evansville from.
12:19
Speaker: And you're apparently your mom
12:21
Speaker: supposedly offered to give him a
12:23
Speaker: ride and.
12:24
Speaker: But no one saw her take him anywhere.
12:27
Speaker: No one saw him get into her car or anything like that.
12:29
Speaker: That's just kind of a theory, right?
12:30
Speaker: Right.
12:31
Speaker: It's not known if she agreed to give him a ride at all.
12:34
Speaker: It's not known if she agreed to give him a ride.
12:36
Speaker: It's unknown.
12:37
Speaker: If he got in the car.
12:41
Speaker: They it wasn't seen.
12:43
Speaker: At least if it was seen, it was
12:45
Speaker: seen by someone who never came
12:48
Speaker: forward.
12:49
Speaker: Did the police ever follow up on
12:51
Speaker: cattle truck drivers from
12:54
Speaker: Indianapolis?
12:54
Speaker: Did they?
12:55
Speaker: Have they talked to people who may have seen this guy or given
12:57
Speaker: him a ride?
12:58
Speaker: They did.
12:59
Speaker: Um, so in nineteen seventy six
13:03
Speaker: was when this case was taken
13:06
Speaker: over by the Indiana State
13:07
Speaker: Police.
13:08
Speaker: Okay.
13:09
Speaker: From my understanding, I don't
13:10
Speaker: think there was much done before
13:12
Speaker: that.
13:12
Speaker: Um, I mean, this was in nineteen seventy four.
13:16
Speaker: Missing persons cases were very different back then.
13:20
Speaker: Well, she's an adult.
13:21
Speaker: She can leave if she wants to, but my mom insisted that she
13:26
Speaker: would not have.
13:27
Speaker: She would not have left.
13:28
Speaker: She may be left on her own, but
13:30
Speaker: she was prevented from coming
13:32
Speaker: back.
13:32
Speaker: That's what she's always believed.
13:34
Speaker: And I do believe it too, because
13:37
Speaker: even and I've talked about this
13:39
Speaker: before, but I'll never like
13:42
Speaker: release the actual a copy of the
13:44
Speaker: letter.
13:44
Speaker: But there was a letter found
13:46
Speaker: that was from My mother, Debbie,
13:49
Speaker: to another man in the
13:50
Speaker: neighborhood.
13:52
Speaker: And it was a love letter.
13:54
Speaker: But even in a love letter to
13:57
Speaker: another man, she had talked
14:00
Speaker: about how she had had to go to
14:01
Speaker: the dentist.
14:02
Speaker: She had to get a tooth pulled, and she was going to make sure
14:05
Speaker: that her daughters always took care of their teeth and didn't
14:09
Speaker: have to go through this.
14:10
Speaker: So even speaking to someone else, she was thinking of her
14:14
Speaker: daughters, me and my sister.
14:16
Speaker: Um, so I too don't believe that
14:19
Speaker: she just didn't come back on her
14:21
Speaker: own.
14:21
Speaker: She may have went somewhere after work, but for her to not
14:26
Speaker: come back completely, something happened to her or to to phone
14:31
Speaker: or to write a letter or something to her mother.
14:34
Speaker: If she knew that you guys or to
14:35
Speaker: her husband, if she knew that,
14:37
Speaker: you know, hey, this is I've
14:38
Speaker: decided to do X, Y, Z and sorry
14:41
Speaker: about that.
14:41
Speaker: But she never did call or write a letter or anything.
14:45
Speaker: No. And so the Indiana State Police.
14:48
Speaker: It got to them in May of nineteen seventy six.
14:53
Speaker: Um, is when the Indiana State Police took it over.
14:55
Speaker: And they did look into the cattle truck drivers from that
15:00
Speaker: area that would have went through, you know, that from
15:04
Speaker: Indianapolis through that area.
15:07
Speaker: And they found two one of them they talked to and the driver
15:12
Speaker: said, no, I didn't.
15:14
Speaker: I don't pick up hitchhikers
15:15
Speaker: because it's against against the
15:18
Speaker: rules.
15:18
Speaker: It's against policy.
15:19
Speaker: Right.
15:20
Speaker: Whether that was true or not, that's what he would say, right?
15:23
Speaker: Right.
15:23
Speaker: He was against policy.
15:25
Speaker: You don't you wouldn't tell anybody.
15:26
Speaker: Right.
15:27
Speaker: The other one, they said he had moved.
15:30
Speaker: Um and okay, they I don't know how how hard they looked for
15:35
Speaker: him, but they, they didn't speak to the other one.
15:39
Speaker: This is this is the frustrating
15:40
Speaker: part of all of this because it's
15:41
Speaker: like, you wonder how because you
15:43
Speaker: always kind of assume that with
15:44
Speaker: these investigations that every,
15:46
Speaker: rabbit hole has been jumped
15:47
Speaker: down.
15:47
Speaker: And then you hear things like that.
15:49
Speaker: Like they didn't even talk to one of the two cattle truck
15:52
Speaker: drivers who may have given this guy a ride.
15:56
Speaker: Yeah, it's kind of that's,
15:57
Speaker: that's got to be frustrating on
15:59
Speaker: your end.
16:00
Speaker: And it's even like it gets more frustrating, um, as it goes,
16:04
Speaker: because this happened when I was eighteen months old and now I am
16:08
Speaker: now fifty three years old.
16:09
Speaker: So it's been over fifty years.
16:12
Speaker: So the Indiana State Police used to not have a cold case unit.
16:16
Speaker: They have a cold case unit.
16:17
Speaker: Now that is new.
16:18
Speaker: I think as of last year it's very new.
16:21
Speaker: So the detective that has my
16:23
Speaker: mother's case knows me by name
16:25
Speaker: and very familiar with me
16:27
Speaker: because I email her
16:29
Speaker: periodically.
16:30
Speaker: Right.
16:31
Speaker: I've asked for the case file a couple of times.
16:34
Speaker: I put in the, the, the, the
16:36
Speaker: official way that you put in a
16:37
Speaker: request.
16:39
Speaker: And if you go by the Indiana
16:41
Speaker: State Police, like their actual
16:44
Speaker: like written policies, rules,
16:46
Speaker: whatever.
16:48
Speaker: It's all at their discretion.
16:52
Speaker: If they what they want to like,
16:54
Speaker: what they would want to give me
16:55
Speaker: out of the case file, it's at
16:56
Speaker: their discretion.
16:58
Speaker: There's actually no proof or
17:01
Speaker: evidence that any crime has even
17:03
Speaker: been committed.
17:04
Speaker: I don't see how them giving me
17:07
Speaker: more information out of the case
17:09
Speaker: file would any way hinder their
17:11
Speaker: investigation.
17:12
Speaker: Fifty years later?
17:13
Speaker: I don't think so.
17:14
Speaker: Right.
17:14
Speaker: Because what are they?
17:16
Speaker: The last thing they looked at, I gave them.
17:19
Speaker: Right.
17:19
Speaker: Okay.
17:20
Speaker: I gave them okay.
17:22
Speaker: Because someone my my newest campaign is looking for the car.
17:28
Speaker: It's easier to find the car than it is to find her.
17:31
Speaker: So my newest campaign is I found
17:34
Speaker: out exactly the the type of car,
17:38
Speaker: the color I'm still unsure
17:40
Speaker: about, but the actual car I. I
17:42
Speaker: know what the actual car body
17:45
Speaker: looked like.
17:46
Speaker: And we know the year.
17:48
Speaker: Um, we know what the license plate was and I have been have
17:53
Speaker: been posting on her Facebook page missing Debra Willhite.
17:57
Speaker: Everybody wants to help.
17:58
Speaker: This is how you can help look for the car.
18:01
Speaker: Like it could be of course, a body of water could be in a body
18:05
Speaker: of water which chaos divers has.
18:09
Speaker: God bless them.
18:10
Speaker: They have excuse me.
18:12
Speaker: Started doing what?
18:13
Speaker: Well, they've done.
18:14
Speaker: They've been doing water searches.
18:15
Speaker: They've found like five people
18:17
Speaker: that have been missing for
18:18
Speaker: years.
18:18
Speaker: But I follow them on now.
18:19
Speaker: They're basically a volunteer group that does sonar searches
18:22
Speaker: of bodies of water.
18:24
Speaker: They, they want to help find people who are missing, um, or
18:27
Speaker: basically they find cars and then hope, hope that people are
18:30
Speaker: in there, that they can solve some of these cases.
18:33
Speaker: They do a great job and they do it.
18:35
Speaker: They ask nothing.
18:37
Speaker: They ask ask nothing of you.
18:39
Speaker: They do it one hundred percent.
18:40
Speaker: It's one hundred percent
18:41
Speaker: Fund-Raising Donations now that
18:44
Speaker: came out here in September of
18:46
Speaker: twenty twenty five to do a
18:47
Speaker: search.
18:48
Speaker: And I know they looked a lot around the bluegrass, Fish and
18:50
Speaker: Wildlife area and an area.
18:52
Speaker: They were looking for what was
18:53
Speaker: called, I think you call it the
18:54
Speaker: Duck Pond.
18:55
Speaker: And I know you did a series on
18:56
Speaker: YouTube where you talk about
18:59
Speaker: it's called the Duck Pond
19:00
Speaker: Diaries.
19:01
Speaker: Do you want to explain a little
19:02
Speaker: bit about about the duck pond
19:04
Speaker: theory?
19:05
Speaker: Sure.
19:05
Speaker: Um, that's one of the many theories.
19:07
Speaker: So it comes from facts though.
19:11
Speaker: Like I had said, my mother Debbie had two younger sisters.
19:15
Speaker: So at some point after she had
19:18
Speaker: disappeared, one of the sisters
19:20
Speaker: had a friend over, um, spending
19:23
Speaker: the night.
19:24
Speaker: And at some point through the
19:25
Speaker: night, one of Debbie's younger
19:28
Speaker: sisters came to her mother
19:31
Speaker: because her friend was just
19:33
Speaker: freaking out and crying and
19:36
Speaker: talking about some craziness or
19:38
Speaker: whatever.
19:39
Speaker: So mom went and spoke to her and she said that the friend of W
19:44
Speaker: sister said that her father had told her that he had shot Debby
19:50
Speaker: in the head, put her body in the trunk of the car and shot gunned
19:54
Speaker: the car into a stripper pit that was filled with water that was
19:58
Speaker: nicknamed the Duck Pond.
20:00
Speaker: Okay, her father, which I'm not
20:03
Speaker: going to say names because it
20:04
Speaker: doesn't.
20:04
Speaker: I don't think it's necessary.
20:06
Speaker: He has passed away.
20:07
Speaker: She was a child when it happened.
20:09
Speaker: She was interviewed later as an
20:12
Speaker: adult by the Indiana State
20:13
Speaker: Police.
20:14
Speaker: She didn't.
20:15
Speaker: You know, she doesn't know if it's true.
20:17
Speaker: She doesn't know what the
20:18
Speaker: location is, actually is if it
20:21
Speaker: is true.
20:22
Speaker: He was like, not a good guy.
20:25
Speaker: I think he was an alcoholic.
20:27
Speaker: He probably did drugs.
20:28
Speaker: He wasn't the most trustworthy, you know, person to go by.
20:33
Speaker: So my mom, Lucille, said that she, after hearing that, called
20:39
Speaker: the police and told them what she had been told.
20:45
Speaker: So the father also told his daughter that I will kill you
20:48
Speaker: too, if you tell anyone.
20:49
Speaker: Oh, wow.
20:50
Speaker: Okay.
20:51
Speaker: And how old was the daughter when he was telling her this?
20:54
Speaker: She was probably around twelve ish.
20:57
Speaker: Twelve.
20:58
Speaker: Okay.
20:59
Speaker: So the duck pond.
21:00
Speaker: So that's always been my nemesis because I oh, this is like, oh,
21:07
Speaker: the duck pond.
21:08
Speaker: Okay, let me try to keep things straight because there's,
21:11
Speaker: there's current stuff in the duck pond also.
21:14
Speaker: So my mom, Lucille said that she
21:16
Speaker: called the police and told them
21:17
Speaker: and that she never heard
21:18
Speaker: anything.
21:19
Speaker: So she figured that they looked
21:20
Speaker: nothing was there and it was
21:22
Speaker: done.
21:23
Speaker: So in nineteen ninety four, I was about twenty ish and I had
21:32
Speaker: my first child, and he was about the same age as I was.
21:38
Speaker: Um, at that point when my mother disappeared.
21:40
Speaker: So it really it really started
21:43
Speaker: me getting thinking about that
21:45
Speaker: because I had a child that was
21:47
Speaker: the same age as I was or another
21:49
Speaker: disappeared.
21:50
Speaker: So I really started digging into it.
21:52
Speaker: I wrote to all the places I
21:56
Speaker: tried to get media coverage or
21:58
Speaker: whatever.
21:59
Speaker: So the courier and Press, um,
22:02
Speaker: Evansville Courier and Press
22:04
Speaker: ended up doing a full page cover
22:07
Speaker: story about my mother's
22:09
Speaker: disappearance.
22:10
Speaker: And in the process, they put me in touch with, um, the detective
22:15
Speaker: at Indiana State Police that was on my mother's case.
22:19
Speaker: Okay.
22:20
Speaker: And he let me in, my mom, Lucille, go in to the Evansville
22:25
Speaker: post and sit down and read the whole case file.
22:30
Speaker: Okay.
22:31
Speaker: Wow.
22:31
Speaker: Read all of it.
22:32
Speaker: In hindsight, I wish I would have taken notes.
22:35
Speaker: You can't.
22:35
Speaker: They won't give you copies.
22:37
Speaker: There's so many things that I
22:39
Speaker: saw that I. I don't remember
22:40
Speaker: anymore, but one of the things
22:42
Speaker: that was not in the case file
22:44
Speaker: was anything about the duck
22:45
Speaker: pond.
22:46
Speaker: Nothing.
22:47
Speaker: Not that she called and told them.
22:49
Speaker: Not that it had been investigated.
22:51
Speaker: Absolutely nothing.
22:53
Speaker: How could that not be in the case file?
22:56
Speaker: That's a pretty significant tip.
22:58
Speaker: That's still a question.
22:59
Speaker: That's still a question.
23:00
Speaker: So the sergeant, the detective at that time, he said if we
23:04
Speaker: would have received it, if I would have received it, it would
23:08
Speaker: be in the case file.
23:09
Speaker: So I don't know what happened.
23:12
Speaker: Maybe someone took a message and
23:14
Speaker: it didn't get to who it was
23:15
Speaker: supposed.
23:16
Speaker: I don't know.
23:17
Speaker: But when your when your mom or
23:18
Speaker: when Lucille called the Gibson
23:20
Speaker: County police, it was like the
23:22
Speaker: city police.
23:22
Speaker: She called, not the Indiana State Police.
23:24
Speaker: I'm assuming just nine one one or whatever.
23:26
Speaker: So it's possible they never
23:27
Speaker: relayed that message or
23:28
Speaker: information to the Indiana State
23:30
Speaker: Police.
23:31
Speaker: I don't know who she told.
23:33
Speaker: Okay.
23:33
Speaker: Um, and she's she's passed away in twenty nineteen, so I can't
23:37
Speaker: ask her any more questions, but, um, she said that she called and
23:41
Speaker: asked for him specifically is what she said.
23:44
Speaker: Okay.
23:45
Speaker: So it must have been after May
23:47
Speaker: of seventy six when that
23:49
Speaker: happened.
23:49
Speaker: So at that time.
23:51
Speaker: So again, this is nineteen ninety four.
23:53
Speaker: And I relayed to him everything that Lucille had told me.
23:57
Speaker: Of course, she was hot because she insisted.
24:01
Speaker: I told you, um, they looked into
24:03
Speaker: it then and at that time he
24:06
Speaker: said, we found where the
24:08
Speaker: location, supposedly where the
24:10
Speaker: location is.
24:11
Speaker: Okay, we know where the duck pond is.
24:13
Speaker: It had been drained of the water in the eighties and filled in,
24:19
Speaker: and when it was drained, there was like fifteen feet of silt at
24:24
Speaker: the bottom that would have covered the car.
24:26
Speaker: And then multiple detectives
24:28
Speaker: later, like I spoke, I've spoken
24:30
Speaker: to everyone.
24:31
Speaker: As the years go by, I don't even remember how what number we're
24:35
Speaker: on now, but there was one that was going to take me back to
24:38
Speaker: where the duck pond was.
24:39
Speaker: So this was after the first detective.
24:41
Speaker: He said he was going to take me to where the duck pond was, the
24:45
Speaker: area which he's.
24:46
Speaker: Which he said existed like.
24:47
Speaker: He acknowledged that it exists.
24:49
Speaker: He knows that duck pond is a thing.
24:50
Speaker: Okay.
24:51
Speaker: Yes.
24:51
Speaker: I was told that it was found and they know where it was.
24:55
Speaker: But there's no evidence.
24:57
Speaker: Um, there's no facts, there's no lead, there's no evidence.
25:00
Speaker: So that they would never, like, excavate the area.
25:03
Speaker: I mean, what evidence would there be?
25:04
Speaker: I mean, there's a tip.
25:06
Speaker: You have a tip saying this is what happened.
25:08
Speaker: And then what, what what other evidence do you need a bumper
25:10
Speaker: sticking out of the the ground.
25:11
Speaker: I mean, what yeah, I'm getting there.
25:13
Speaker: So they, so they, so they said they knew where it was.
25:17
Speaker: They multiple people.
25:19
Speaker: This is the second detective now
25:21
Speaker: that told me they knew where it
25:23
Speaker: was, and they were going to take
25:26
Speaker: me to see it where it was by
25:28
Speaker: this time.
25:28
Speaker: This is like late nineties because I was still living in
25:33
Speaker: Evansville at the time.
25:34
Speaker: Um, but everything there was
25:35
Speaker: always an excuse like, oh, it's
25:38
Speaker: too muddy, we can't get back
25:39
Speaker: there right now, blah, blah,
25:41
Speaker: blah.
25:41
Speaker: They never told me like what area or anything.
25:45
Speaker: So I never got to see it.
25:47
Speaker: And then just recently, I believe this year when I was
25:52
Speaker: corresponding with the current detective on the cold case unit
25:56
Speaker: that has her file, she said that she's looked in the case file
26:00
Speaker: twice, and she saw nothing of the location of the duck pond.
26:05
Speaker: And it's unclear if she if she's said it's a lady detective.
26:09
Speaker: It's been unclear.
26:11
Speaker: She hasn't really made it very clear is if there's mention of
26:14
Speaker: the duck pond.
26:15
Speaker: But there's no mention of the location or if there's no
26:18
Speaker: mention of the duck pond at all.
26:21
Speaker: And you've been trying to get
26:22
Speaker: Ahold of the case file again,
26:24
Speaker: unsuccessfully.
26:25
Speaker: But, I mean, you did get to view it back in ninety four, but then
26:27
Speaker: you want to say, hey, what's what developments have happened
26:30
Speaker: since ninety four that you may not know about or what maybe
26:33
Speaker: what, what they did not investigate kind of confirming
26:36
Speaker: that they did or didn't look into the duck pond theory and
26:39
Speaker: things like that.
26:39
Speaker: That would be nice to know.
26:41
Speaker: I'm going to push again.
26:42
Speaker: The more that thinking on it
26:43
Speaker: again, like I'm going to push
26:45
Speaker: again.
26:46
Speaker: Okay.
26:46
Speaker: I've been told by two different
26:48
Speaker: detectives that they knew where
26:50
Speaker: it was.
26:51
Speaker: In her defense, maybe it was overlooked and it is in there
26:55
Speaker: and she just overlooked it.
26:56
Speaker: But I feel like I should be told where it was.
27:00
Speaker: Someone had contacted me like a year and a half ago or
27:04
Speaker: something, and said that she was an intuitive, and she said that
27:08
Speaker: my mother had come to her and that she was in the bluegrass
27:11
Speaker: area like that.
27:12
Speaker: She was there.
27:13
Speaker: So she even went to the police and told them and when they
27:17
Speaker: wouldn't listen to her, then she came to me.
27:20
Speaker: So I contacted them.
27:22
Speaker: That's how the Chaos Divers got involved, because I needed
27:26
Speaker: someone to go and look.
27:27
Speaker: It was the first time that I had a location, right?
27:31
Speaker: Or, um, nothing was found.
27:34
Speaker: They looked there.
27:35
Speaker: There was actually in the bluegrass area, a buck pond, B
27:41
Speaker: as in boy Buck pond, and one of my aunts, my mother's youngest
27:47
Speaker: sister, texted me that information a while.
27:51
Speaker: You know, that all was going on.
27:53
Speaker: I was like, maybe.
27:55
Speaker: Maybe it was actually the buck
27:56
Speaker: pond, but she misheard it as the
27:59
Speaker: duck pond.
28:00
Speaker: So chaos divers did look there.
28:03
Speaker: Um, they actually looked there multiple times at the Buck pond
28:06
Speaker: and they found nothing as well.
28:09
Speaker: Okay, so that didn't bring up
28:11
Speaker: anything, but it does make sense
28:13
Speaker: that the car, like there's been
28:15
Speaker: so many people that have been
28:17
Speaker: found because their car has just
28:19
Speaker: been sitting in a body of water
28:21
Speaker: for decades.
28:23
Speaker: So it makes sense.
28:25
Speaker: And the Duck Pond Diaries, I
28:26
Speaker: just really just it's me venting
28:30
Speaker: and talking about what I want to
28:32
Speaker: talk about when I want to talk
28:33
Speaker: about it.
28:34
Speaker: How?
28:35
Speaker: I want to talk about it.
28:36
Speaker: No, it's good to have that that
28:37
Speaker: outlet so that you can kind of
28:38
Speaker: get all get all this off your
28:40
Speaker: chest.
28:40
Speaker: And absolutely, because it's got to be beyond frustrating to try
28:43
Speaker: to get answers and to be.
28:46
Speaker: Honestly, I don't understand why there'd be a hesitance to
28:49
Speaker: provide you with whatever.
28:50
Speaker: I mean, it's been fifty years.
28:52
Speaker: What harm could come from
28:53
Speaker: releasing information at this
28:54
Speaker: point?
28:55
Speaker: So the first denial that I got
28:57
Speaker: was a paralegal email that it's
29:00
Speaker: an open investigation, blah,
29:02
Speaker: blah, blah.
29:02
Speaker: Thanks.
29:03
Speaker: Have a great day.
29:04
Speaker: Like, okay, I sent another one.
29:07
Speaker: I sent it directly to the email of the person that was that's
29:11
Speaker: over the legal department, which you can pretty much find
29:14
Speaker: anything online like that.
29:16
Speaker: So I emailed directly, they
29:18
Speaker: emailed back and basically said,
29:21
Speaker: you know, I can't help it that
29:23
Speaker: you were allowed to look at the
29:24
Speaker: case file in nineteen ninety
29:25
Speaker: four.
29:26
Speaker: You shouldn't have been able to,
29:27
Speaker: you shouldn't have been allowed
29:28
Speaker: to.
29:28
Speaker: But I can't help that you're not going to get a copy of the case
29:32
Speaker: file because it is an open case and it could still be they could
29:37
Speaker: still charge someone.
29:38
Speaker: It could.
29:39
Speaker: That's what their focus is on, is if they should be, they want
29:44
Speaker: to be able to charge somebody for like a crime.
29:48
Speaker: But you haven't even proven there's been a crime yet.
29:50
Speaker: So and it's possible, right,
29:52
Speaker: that she that's another theory
29:54
Speaker: I've kind of come upon is that
29:55
Speaker: she, she just said, you know,
29:57
Speaker: I'm just she could have just
29:58
Speaker: driven into.
29:59
Speaker: Or maybe she went for a drive
30:01
Speaker: and ended up in a body of water
30:03
Speaker: and it was just an accident
30:04
Speaker: because that happens all the
30:05
Speaker: time to where people just have
30:06
Speaker: an accident.
30:07
Speaker: And she just happened to have
30:08
Speaker: talked to somebody earlier in
30:10
Speaker: the restaurant.
30:11
Speaker: And, you know, people are making
30:12
Speaker: connections that maybe aren't
30:13
Speaker: there.
30:14
Speaker: But so yeah, it's not necessarily a crime that they're
30:18
Speaker: needing to protect, you know, from charging someone later on.
30:21
Speaker: But I don't care about that right now.
30:23
Speaker: Like I first you have to find her.
30:26
Speaker: That's the first thing that has
30:28
Speaker: to be done if you want to charge
30:31
Speaker: somebody, whatever.
30:32
Speaker: But.
30:33
Speaker: Well, and also with the duck
30:34
Speaker: pond there, I mean, have you
30:35
Speaker: looked at maps of that area back
30:37
Speaker: in that time when to, to see if
30:40
Speaker: like the buck pond even existed
30:42
Speaker: or if the I, I haven't, but
30:45
Speaker: chaos divers has someone that
30:47
Speaker: does that.
30:47
Speaker: Okay.
30:48
Speaker: Her name is Shelly and she's awesome.
30:50
Speaker: I've spoken to her via text, but
30:52
Speaker: she volunteers her time and she
30:54
Speaker: does that.
30:55
Speaker: And they have they have, I don't know how many bodies of water
31:00
Speaker: that they have looked in already and still have marked to look or
31:04
Speaker: look at again.
31:06
Speaker: And she knows like, yes, this was here then.
31:09
Speaker: No, it was not.
31:10
Speaker: And there's some bodies of water they have marked that they're
31:13
Speaker: unsure if they if it was there or not, but they're still going
31:17
Speaker: to look okay because like there's some places that are
31:20
Speaker: technically on private property that, you know, it's un it's
31:24
Speaker: unclear if it was there or not, but chaos divers and Shelly and
31:29
Speaker: there's other people that I don't know that help.
31:31
Speaker: They.
31:32
Speaker: They do that.
31:33
Speaker: They have done that.
31:34
Speaker: There's a really nice article.
31:36
Speaker: If you Google Crossroads,
31:38
Speaker: Debra Wilhite, it should come
31:40
Speaker: up.
31:40
Speaker: I think it's Crossroads Media LLC.
31:43
Speaker: She did a really nice, thorough,
31:45
Speaker: thorough article about my
31:48
Speaker: mother's disappearance,
31:49
Speaker: including maps.
31:50
Speaker: I'll link that in the show notes.
31:52
Speaker: If anyone wants to check that out, I'll link that.
31:54
Speaker: It's very thorough.
31:55
Speaker: And she has like maps of like,
31:58
Speaker: this is where Lucille's house
31:59
Speaker: was.
31:59
Speaker: This is where the windmill was.
32:01
Speaker: This is where my father's work was like all of that.
32:04
Speaker: It's really thorough.
32:05
Speaker: So that is, I've looked at that.
32:07
Speaker: It's, I've saved those because
32:09
Speaker: that's something that I've, I've
32:11
Speaker: not done.
32:12
Speaker: It's kind of tricky for me because I will become obsessed.
32:16
Speaker: My girlfriend says that I'll start spinning is what she says.
32:20
Speaker: You're spinning and, and so I
32:23
Speaker: have to kind of just let it
32:25
Speaker: like, put it down for a little
32:27
Speaker: bit sometimes.
32:27
Speaker: Like I haven't done any of the Duck Pond diaries.
32:30
Speaker: There's I think I did ten
32:32
Speaker: videos, but I haven't done one
32:34
Speaker: since October because I have
32:35
Speaker: just kind of put it down, but I,
32:38
Speaker: I'm kind of doing different
32:39
Speaker: things.
32:40
Speaker: I, I have an official website now called searching for Debra T
32:46
Speaker: e b r a dot com.
32:47
Speaker: Previously I've had like, like the first page that I made for
32:52
Speaker: my mother was on Myspace.
32:54
Speaker: So that was, yeah, a very long time ago.
32:57
Speaker: Absolutely.
32:58
Speaker: And so she has a Facebook page now and a TikTok.
33:01
Speaker: And the YouTube is also I've changed.
33:05
Speaker: They're all at searching for Debra.
33:07
Speaker: So this is the first time that I've, I, I wanted something more
33:11
Speaker: permanent that I can put all of her information in one place.
33:16
Speaker: It's still in development.
33:17
Speaker: I'm doing it myself.
33:18
Speaker: And, you know, I work full time and whatever.
33:20
Speaker: So it it takes a while.
33:22
Speaker: So there's some information on there, but it's my goal that
33:25
Speaker: everything about her and her case will be on this website,
33:29
Speaker: including any updates.
33:31
Speaker: The last update, which I touched
33:33
Speaker: upon, I didn't really go into
33:35
Speaker: when I had been posting about
33:37
Speaker: the car.
33:38
Speaker: People can look for the car, you know, if you see old cars in in
33:44
Speaker: a barn or behind a shed or on, you know, overgrown property or
33:48
Speaker: in the woods somewhere, you know, take a look at it and see
33:51
Speaker: if it's this kind of car.
33:52
Speaker: And I had somebody contact me
33:54
Speaker: and said, hey, I saw this car
33:57
Speaker: when I was driving to my mom's
33:58
Speaker: house in Mount Vernon, and it
34:00
Speaker: looks like the car that you're
34:02
Speaker: looking for.
34:03
Speaker: And she sent me a picture and I was like, it is, it's, it's that
34:06
Speaker: kind of car.
34:07
Speaker: And it was green.
34:09
Speaker: So it looked like it was painted black over green.
34:13
Speaker: Oh, that's what the picture looked like.
34:15
Speaker: Even stranger.
34:17
Speaker: And that blew my mind because I'm so stupid.
34:19
Speaker: I was like, I never even thought about that.
34:21
Speaker: Somebody could have just kept it
34:23
Speaker: and painted it and whatever,
34:25
Speaker: right?
34:25
Speaker: I don't really concentrate on
34:27
Speaker: the color of it anymore for that
34:29
Speaker: reason.
34:29
Speaker: Anyway, I gave this information to.
34:33
Speaker: The detective on her case, and she said that she did go and
34:38
Speaker: spoke to the residents.
34:39
Speaker: And there was actually two Ford
34:42
Speaker: galaxies on the property, but
34:44
Speaker: the VIN numbers didn't match
34:45
Speaker: because we do have my mom's
34:46
Speaker: phone.
34:47
Speaker: But so that's the most recent update on her case.
34:50
Speaker: And I gave them that information.
34:52
Speaker: Those are the kind of tips that are that are helpful, you know,
34:55
Speaker: by just getting it out there.
34:56
Speaker: And then you hear somebody, oh,
34:57
Speaker: there's a Ford Galaxy behind a
34:59
Speaker: barn.
34:59
Speaker: And that's yeah, sometimes that's all it takes to, to blow
35:02
Speaker: open a case.
35:03
Speaker: Yes.
35:03
Speaker: Yeah.
35:04
Speaker: Your website's actually very, a very nice website searching for
35:07
Speaker: Debra dot com.
35:08
Speaker: You've got a gallery like of your family members, just
35:11
Speaker: pictures of your mom and your dad and your sister and your,
35:14
Speaker: your grandma or your mom as you call her updates.
35:17
Speaker: And then your updates, you have
35:19
Speaker: a mention of, um, your Debbie is
35:22
Speaker: also missing.
35:23
Speaker: She's on the California Missing persons website because one
35:27
Speaker: theory is that she may have taken off to California.
35:30
Speaker: Maybe with this.
35:31
Speaker: This person she had sent a love letter to.
35:33
Speaker: Maybe.
35:33
Speaker: Well, I didn't ask.
35:34
Speaker: But did they look into that person?
35:36
Speaker: They did.
35:37
Speaker: Yeah.
35:37
Speaker: They did.
35:38
Speaker: Um, he told them that they did
35:41
Speaker: see each other, but they had,
35:43
Speaker: they hadn't been recently seeing
35:45
Speaker: each other.
35:46
Speaker: Um he, he was still there so he didn't run off.
35:49
Speaker: He was still in you know, stayed local.
35:52
Speaker: And I take it he was not a
35:53
Speaker: suspect or he, he had an alibi
35:55
Speaker: or something.
35:56
Speaker: I'm assuming he was never a suspect.
35:58
Speaker: Same as my father.
35:59
Speaker: He was never.
36:01
Speaker: They interviewed him.
36:02
Speaker: He he was never a suspect.
36:04
Speaker: Well, I was just looking at the
36:05
Speaker: missing persons website, uh, for
36:07
Speaker: California.
36:07
Speaker: And they have that the car is red.
36:12
Speaker: So, um, that's also something that's new because so that came
36:18
Speaker: from there was a young, she was actually underage, um, when the
36:23
Speaker: police interviewed her and I don't know if she went to them
36:25
Speaker: or they went to her, but there was this underage family friend,
36:30
Speaker: um, that told the Indiana State Police that she was partying.
36:34
Speaker: Her and her some friend were
36:36
Speaker: partying with these two older
36:37
Speaker: guys, and one of them told them
36:40
Speaker: that she had ran off to
36:42
Speaker: California.
36:43
Speaker: That's where that came from.
36:45
Speaker: So, so until just a couple of weeks ago, whenever I put that,
36:51
Speaker: um, whatever date the update is on the website, that is the date
36:56
Speaker: that they updated previously, they had a picture of her that
37:00
Speaker: looked like a faxed photo.
37:02
Speaker: It was a horrible photo and they didn't have any information
37:06
Speaker: about the car.
37:07
Speaker: I contacted the California and told them who I was and said,
37:12
Speaker: can I give you updated information in a better photo?
37:17
Speaker: I don't know why they put the car as red.
37:19
Speaker: I have no idea.
37:20
Speaker: They have updated her photo to
37:22
Speaker: be the more the less fax like
37:24
Speaker: picture.
37:25
Speaker: So it is crazy that I gave them
37:27
Speaker: that, you know, these missing
37:29
Speaker: sites doing all the research I
37:30
Speaker: do.
37:31
Speaker: It's like sometimes they use the crappiest photos and it's like,
37:34
Speaker: I can Google and find much better photos of this person,
37:37
Speaker: but maybe that was what they were provided with back in the
37:40
Speaker: day or something.
37:41
Speaker: Yes.
37:41
Speaker: And it, it, um, it had not been updated this whole time.
37:47
Speaker: And I don't know why it didn't occur to me to contact them
37:50
Speaker: before, but I'm doing that more just taking things upon myself.
37:55
Speaker: So they updated her photo finally, and they did update
37:58
Speaker: that additional information and added additional information.
38:01
Speaker: I don't know where they got red from that.
38:04
Speaker: I don't know where they got that from, but at least the
38:07
Speaker: information is there.
38:09
Speaker: So it's updated with with that at least.
38:11
Speaker: What do you think that that's I
38:12
Speaker: mean, how much credibility do
38:14
Speaker: you put towards that theory that
38:15
Speaker: she might have just taken off to
38:16
Speaker: California?
38:18
Speaker: I mean, really anything is possible.
38:22
Speaker: I don't I don't think I don't believe, but I'm also open to
38:27
Speaker: pretty much anything because, you know, she was nineteen.
38:32
Speaker: Yeah, it was the seventies.
38:34
Speaker: It was the seventies.
38:36
Speaker: But she was like, she had just started.
38:38
Speaker: She didn't have money.
38:39
Speaker: That's the only thing is like she didn't have money.
38:42
Speaker: And also, if she would have just taken off, like her Social
38:46
Speaker: security number has not been used, the car just disappeared.
38:49
Speaker: It was never reregistered or renewed.
38:51
Speaker: And she didn't have money to
38:54
Speaker: like, can you get a new, you
38:57
Speaker: know, make a new life and change
38:59
Speaker: your identity?
38:59
Speaker: Yeah, but you have to have money typically to do that.
39:03
Speaker: It's not cheap to just disappear
39:05
Speaker: and to start, start anew
39:06
Speaker: somewhere else.
39:07
Speaker: I think the fact that the car
39:08
Speaker: has not been found is the most
39:10
Speaker: telling thing.
39:10
Speaker: And I think the duck pond theory
39:12
Speaker: seems to be a pretty valid
39:15
Speaker: theory.
39:15
Speaker: I think it's I think one issue could be that like they like the
39:20
Speaker: state police had said the the pond that that may have happened
39:23
Speaker: at may have been filled.
39:26
Speaker: So I wonder, where is it?
39:28
Speaker: But where is it?
39:29
Speaker: Is there a way?
39:31
Speaker: No, no. There are ways.
39:32
Speaker: Like with chaos divers, they use sonar.
39:34
Speaker: Is there a way to find a vehicle buried thirty feet below the
39:38
Speaker: ground, using some sort of radar or technology that they might
39:41
Speaker: not have had?
39:43
Speaker: You know, I've actually looked
39:44
Speaker: into this, and I have been told
39:47
Speaker: by numerous groups that they
39:49
Speaker: would need something that could
39:51
Speaker: not only find the the car, but
39:55
Speaker: then also be able to see if
39:56
Speaker: there was a if there were
39:58
Speaker: skeletal remains inside, because
40:01
Speaker: there's probably multiple cars
40:03
Speaker: because that is very common for
40:06
Speaker: like I, I think it was chaos
40:09
Speaker: divers.
40:09
Speaker: There was one place where they
40:10
Speaker: found like ninety cars or
40:13
Speaker: something in this one body of
40:14
Speaker: water.
40:15
Speaker: There was.
40:15
Speaker: And I remember hearing something
40:17
Speaker: about some car lot that did some
40:19
Speaker: kind of insurance scam or
40:21
Speaker: something, and they put all
40:22
Speaker: these cars in a body of water to
40:24
Speaker: get.
40:24
Speaker: Yeah.
40:25
Speaker: So there's cars everywhere.
40:27
Speaker: And the thing with the stripper pits is like when they're done
40:32
Speaker: with a stripper pits.
40:33
Speaker: Mhm.
40:34
Speaker: A lot of times, like metal scaffolding.
40:39
Speaker: I don't know what they use, but
40:40
Speaker: like, they'll put their excess
40:43
Speaker: whatever machinery or whatever
40:45
Speaker: into the pit and then fill that
40:48
Speaker: in.
40:48
Speaker: Like that's just a way to clean it up.
40:50
Speaker: So. So it's possible the like
40:54
Speaker: the buck pond or the I don't
40:56
Speaker: know how deep it was when they
40:58
Speaker: looked, but in my mind, it's
41:00
Speaker: possible that she is in the
41:02
Speaker: bluegrass area.
41:03
Speaker: My aunt said that she had actually always wondered about
41:05
Speaker: that area because that was all stripper pits, the bluegrass.
41:10
Speaker: It was all stripper pits back in the day, and then they made it
41:13
Speaker: into a nature preserve.
41:14
Speaker: And I think it was a popular place for people to, to go.
41:17
Speaker: And it was a, I think, a place that people who were up to no
41:21
Speaker: good were, were going to hide things from exactly what I
41:24
Speaker: understand back in the day.
41:26
Speaker: But yeah, now it's kind of a nature preserve kind of an area.
41:28
Speaker: But back then it was was not.
41:30
Speaker: So my, my current goal is to I'm
41:35
Speaker: going to ask again, where is the
41:37
Speaker: duck pond?
41:38
Speaker: I've been told by more than one
41:40
Speaker: detective at the Indiana State
41:42
Speaker: Police that they knew where it
41:43
Speaker: was.
41:44
Speaker: I want to know where it is the detectives going to get tired of
41:46
Speaker: hearing from me, but I can't.
41:49
Speaker: She's my only resource.
41:51
Speaker: She's my only access.
41:52
Speaker: I did ask her.
41:54
Speaker: I told her about the website.
41:56
Speaker: And when we were talking about
41:58
Speaker: the when she told me about the
42:00
Speaker: car that she was able to go and
42:02
Speaker: look at, I talked about the
42:03
Speaker: website and my goal for it, and
42:06
Speaker: I said, if you have any other
42:08
Speaker: public information that you
42:09
Speaker: would be able to give me, um,
42:13
Speaker: that I could put on the website
42:14
Speaker: and that I. She didn't respond
42:16
Speaker: to that.
42:16
Speaker: And I haven't heard anything else.
42:18
Speaker: That was a few weeks ago.
42:20
Speaker: And I see you have a link on
42:22
Speaker: your home page to submit an
42:23
Speaker: anonymous tip.
42:24
Speaker: So if someone wanted to reach
42:26
Speaker: out with some information,
42:27
Speaker: sometimes people may not want to
42:28
Speaker: call the police for whatever
42:30
Speaker: reason, but they might leave an
42:31
Speaker: anonymous tip on a website
42:32
Speaker: where, you know, that could be
42:34
Speaker: helpful.
42:35
Speaker: Thank you for bringing that up.
42:36
Speaker: Yes, that is something else
42:37
Speaker: that's never been available
42:39
Speaker: before and it is completely
42:41
Speaker: anonymous.
42:41
Speaker: I don't get because I and I've
42:43
Speaker: actually gotten a couple on the
42:45
Speaker: website, but they were more just
42:47
Speaker: comments unless you put your
42:50
Speaker: information, I don't get your
42:51
Speaker: email.
42:52
Speaker: I don't see your name.
42:53
Speaker: It's just the information.
42:55
Speaker: Um, and it's, if it's a anything
42:58
Speaker: that I could give the police,
42:59
Speaker: it's something I can give to the
43:00
Speaker: police and it is one hundred
43:02
Speaker: percent anonymous.
43:03
Speaker: Well, even though so much time
43:04
Speaker: has passed, the hope is that
43:05
Speaker: someone will hear your story and
43:08
Speaker: all of these details and maybe
43:10
Speaker: someone it'll rack someone's
43:11
Speaker: brain, they'll be like, wait a
43:12
Speaker: minute.
43:12
Speaker: Uh, so-and-so was in that area, or so-and-so had a green galaxy
43:15
Speaker: for some reason for two weeks and they got rid of it.
43:17
Speaker: Or, you know, something like that would be triggered with
43:19
Speaker: someone where it might kind of open some new doors to to
43:23
Speaker: solving what happened.
43:25
Speaker: My mom, Lucille, had told me that back in the day.
43:29
Speaker: Someone told her that they saw the car in somebody's garage,
43:34
Speaker: but like, there's nothing came of that either.
43:38
Speaker: Just like the duck pond, so.
43:39
Speaker: Right.
43:40
Speaker: It's just one of those theories out there that's.
43:42
Speaker: Yeah.
43:43
Speaker: One of the many.
43:44
Speaker: Are there any other theories that are floating around that,
43:48
Speaker: you know, may or may not have any credibility to them?
43:52
Speaker: Um, there's still some people that say that it was my father,
43:58
Speaker: but there's no like literally someone was sent me, um, an old
44:04
Speaker: article or something.
44:06
Speaker: And then they, this was on
44:08
Speaker: Facebook and then they messaged
44:09
Speaker: me saying, we still think that
44:12
Speaker: it was her, that it was her
44:13
Speaker: husband.
44:14
Speaker: And because they accidentally sent it to me instead of who
44:17
Speaker: they were talking to.
44:18
Speaker: Right.
44:20
Speaker: Whoops.
44:21
Speaker: Um, okay.
44:22
Speaker: Yeah.
44:23
Speaker: But so I know that people still
44:24
Speaker: think that and he was accounted
44:27
Speaker: for, right?
44:27
Speaker: Like he had, he was at the tavern.
44:31
Speaker: Right.
44:31
Speaker: And so that couldn't have, that
44:33
Speaker: doesn't seem to be very credible
44:35
Speaker: that he had anything to do with
44:36
Speaker: it.
44:37
Speaker: No. And my mom, Lucille, she she
44:41
Speaker: didn't believe that he had
44:43
Speaker: anything to.
44:44
Speaker: He believed that she left him.
44:47
Speaker: I think that's what she really what he really thought.
44:50
Speaker: And he passed away in September of seventy six.
44:55
Speaker: So two years later, you lost your dad after.
44:58
Speaker: Yeah.
44:58
Speaker: This happened with your mom.
45:00
Speaker: My gosh.
45:01
Speaker: Yeah.
45:01
Speaker: He he had moved in with me and my sister to Lucille's.
45:05
Speaker: Mhm.
45:05
Speaker: Um, and just to take care of us, I was like, she watched us when
45:10
Speaker: he was at work.
45:11
Speaker: But she would always say that
45:13
Speaker: once we got home, we were his,
45:15
Speaker: like, he she didn't just raise
45:17
Speaker: us.
45:17
Speaker: She helped take care of us.
45:19
Speaker: But he was a very devoted father
45:22
Speaker: and he felt like his wife had
45:26
Speaker: left him.
45:27
Speaker: So I don't.
45:29
Speaker: I don't believe that he had anything to do with it at all.
45:33
Speaker: And everyone that I've spoke to
45:34
Speaker: that knew him doesn't believe
45:37
Speaker: that either.
45:38
Speaker: I know that they talked to the
45:40
Speaker: the guy that she had written a
45:42
Speaker: letter to, but there's never
45:44
Speaker: been like an actual lead or
45:50
Speaker: actual evidence that they could
45:52
Speaker: run with other than the death
45:54
Speaker: pond that they didn't look at in
45:56
Speaker: the seventies.
45:57
Speaker: To me, they're, they could, um, look into some things, maybe
46:01
Speaker: with technology now that they didn't have back then.
46:04
Speaker: They, I mean, I think they should continue looking for this
46:07
Speaker: person, this other cattle drive truck driver and maybe or the,
46:11
Speaker: the cattle truck driver to see if he had given someone a ride.
46:15
Speaker: I don't know if it's too late to
46:17
Speaker: ask those sorts of questions,
46:18
Speaker: but it's I don't think it's ever
46:21
Speaker: too late.
46:21
Speaker: Right.
46:22
Speaker: But I mean, maybe that guy has because, I mean, it's stunning
46:25
Speaker: to me the things that people.
46:26
Speaker: Someone reached out to me a few months ago on another case and
46:30
Speaker: they're like, I, I thought the police would ask me these
46:32
Speaker: questions and they didn't.
46:33
Speaker: And so I'm working on that situation.
46:35
Speaker: But it's crazy to think this person might be out there who,
46:39
Speaker: who has this information?
46:41
Speaker: And they, the police just never followed up.
46:43
Speaker: And they just don't.
46:44
Speaker: They just think, oh, they have what they need.
46:46
Speaker: Or they would, they would ask me because I think people just
46:48
Speaker: assume that if it was that important, they'd come to me.
46:51
Speaker: Um, and that's not what always happens.
46:53
Speaker: So yeah, maybe she did give him
46:56
Speaker: a ride and dropped him off
46:58
Speaker: somewhere before she was going
47:01
Speaker: to go get my dad, but didn't
47:03
Speaker: make it.
47:03
Speaker: Exactly.
47:04
Speaker: There's, there's no way to know.
47:06
Speaker: Yeah.
47:06
Speaker: I mean, it would just open up some new doors and some
47:09
Speaker: information to be able to kind of chase some things down.
47:11
Speaker: So I would appreciate if people
47:16
Speaker: would just go to the website
47:18
Speaker: searching for Debra and just
47:20
Speaker: take all the information in and,
47:22
Speaker: and let us know if they know
47:24
Speaker: anything or see anything or hear
47:27
Speaker: anything.
47:27
Speaker: Well, I think I thank you for telling me about your mom's
47:31
Speaker: story and hopefully this is helpful in some way.
47:34
Speaker: Maybe somebody will listen to
47:35
Speaker: this and come forward with a
47:37
Speaker: tip.
47:37
Speaker: That'll be helpful.
47:39
Speaker: Yeah.
47:39
Speaker: Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.
47:42
Speaker: And if you think you may have
47:43
Speaker: some information that could be
47:44
Speaker: useful in solving Debra's
47:45
Speaker: case, reach out to the Indiana
47:47
Speaker: State Police at eight one two
47:49
Speaker: eight six seven two zero seven
47:51
Speaker: nine.
47:53
Speaker: Or you can submit an anonymous
47:54
Speaker: tip at searching for Debra dot
47:56
Speaker: com.
47:58
Speaker: All of the links that were mentioned in this episode are in
48:00
Speaker: the show notes.
48:02
Speaker: Or you could go to River city mystery dot com slash twenty
48:05
Speaker: three to find those.
48:07
Speaker: Thank you so much for listening to this episode.
48:09
Speaker: Until next time, take care.