Latest / Relish: a Christian podcast / 155-Predestination, Revelation, and Rediscovering Spiritual Practices

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155-Predestination, Revelation, and Rediscovering Spiritual Practices · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  You're listening to Thursday Mornings with Alex and Don. Team Ed.
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  Don is a pastor with 40 years experience.
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  And Alex is just as curious as you are. We look at the most important and interesting
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  questions about the Bible and Christian faith.
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  So let's talk about it. Pastor Don.
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  Good morning, Alex. How are you doing? All right. Good.
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  Good. Hey, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. We are glad to have you.
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  We hopefully the the uh question
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  bowl will be fruitful and stumped
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  on that's happening more and more as time goes on because people are oh he answered
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  that one so let's go a little deeper ah that's good that's good stuff uh-huh
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  yeah i like it it makes it a lot of fun we do have some notes as far as we've
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  got bible school vacation bible school coming up it's food truck themed
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  you still have a couple weeks i think to register
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  for that and that'll be on the west chester community church
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  facebook page if you don't follow that go ahead and navigate your way there
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  and i'll try to send your kids yeah or grandkids or great grandkids yep yep
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  it'll be here at west chester community church have an evening including supper that's right 5 30 to 8,
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  I believe, is the timeline for that. So last year, it was great.
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  Those songs that we sang are still rolling around in my head and still favorites
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  for my kids. And we'll be there. Yes, that's right.
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  I wasn't officially going to do that, but I think I... By default?
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  By default, exactly, yeah. It's just too much fun.
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  All right, Don, have at it. Take your pick. Oh, yeah.
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  It has to be a little one. and it's on one little bitty piece of paper. Okay.
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  Right? Oh, yeah, this is a very small topic, Don. What are your thoughts on
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  predestination and Calvinism? Yeah!
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  Oh, yeah. Pull out the small piece of paper, get the huge question.
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  And this one's from Mason B. We have talked about this a lot.
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  We talked about this at the... It's a good one. Oh, the third Hillcrest special.
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  So can you can you
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  give uh just a a schnapps two minute yeah a little two minute answer on this
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  and they can kind of refer to uh the third hillcrest episode there you go the
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  the uh the question is does god put all the pieces in place and just let them
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  roll or is that god has a plan yeah got a
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  plan for all of us from our standpoint, we can't understand it as being all put in place and.
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  And let go because we don't understand God, but God knows this whole scenario.
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  I go to Romans chapter eight, and we know that all things work for the good,
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  which has some predestination in it for those who have been called according to his purpose.
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  For those he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of
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  his son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
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  And those he predestined, he also called. Those he called, he also justified.
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  Those he justified, he also glorified.
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  Okay, so from our standpoint, we can't understand it as all these things have
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  been worked out ahead of time.
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  From God's standpoint, he's got this. right he's got this he's got it in place
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  it's taken care of things are going to work out,
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  so the predestination probably gives us more confidence but
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  it is i i would hate somebody to say well we're all predestined so if i'm going
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  to make it i'll make it if i don't make it i don't make it right because what
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  that does is it undermines the heart that we should have that that God already has for everyone.
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  He wants, he wants everybody in the kingdom.
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  And that goes back to that John 3, 17, that we don't always think of when we think of 16.
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  But his desire is that no one should be lost. Right.
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  And all of us should have a chance. Right. To me, I see it as simply just like God's got all of it.
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  He knows how it started because he did it, and he knows how it ends because
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  he's going to do it. Right.
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  And what he wants is you. Right. And the important thing to do in the meantime
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  is to understand, get the Holy Spirit, be baptized with the Holy Spirit,
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  and follow him the whole way. Yeah.
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  Then we know we're in the right spot. Right. Yeah, you don't lose free will. No. Right.
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  No. He does not want, he never designed us to be puppets. Right.
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  If he did, we wouldn't have had everything that happened back in the Old Testament.
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  I mean, if we were all predestined. Yeah.
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  Yeah. I think we covered that. I think that, I think that's a pretty good synopsis
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  of it is like, yes, big picture God's, it's already done.
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  He knows everything that's going to happen, but you still have free will.
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  You still have the ability to make right and wrong choices, come closer to God,
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  go further away from God with your own choices.
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  And if you have more questions on, wait, explain that a little bit more,
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  find that old Hill Hillcrest episode where we talked about it in front of the
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  students because at that time I think we had like six or seven questions it
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  was very popular it was yeah so that was good yeah.
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  I don't think he predestined that frog getting in my throat yep that frog all
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  right otherwise I took it yeah so all right this will be the Mason B episode He just graduated.
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  He did? Yeah. Well, congratulations, Mason.
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  Do you interpret revelations literally or metaphorically? Yes. All right, nailed it.
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  I think the purpose of the revelation of John is to help us as Christians.
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  Well, basically it was written to people who were persecuted so that they could
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  get an idea that they're part of something much bigger. Okay.
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  And so they could go through the persecution without thinking,
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  well, this is a lost cause.
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  And the revelation, I sort of adopt the understanding that the revelation is seven revelations.
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  Okay. That, okay, so we have this bowl sitting out here on the table and you see it from that angle.
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  I see it from this angle. Somebody over there would see it from this angle.
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  And so the revelation is actually telling the story seven times from seven different angles.
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  And there's almost exactly seven different layers in each of those seven panes, if you will.
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  And so it is to help Christians understand that there is a, that God is in the
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  details, that we who believe are not lost.
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  And if you read it really carefully, and the more carefully I read it, I realized that, hey,
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  those of us who have accepted Christ in advance of the tribulation aren't going
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  to be there in the tribulation.
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  Right we don't have to go through that part and paul alludes to that praise
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  the lord yep we'll be taken up but we'll not have to deal with that part so
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  what are the metaphorical ish aspects of it well the seven seals seven bowls
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  the seven trumpets are all.
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  Helping us to understand that there'll be seven events before the culmination
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  of all things okay And the unwinding of those things,
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  I think, is a way for God to let us know that this isn't going to be, boom!
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  But it's going to come over time. Okay. Okay. That makes sense.
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  I think something that's important to note is that he was writing this at a
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  time, which I always find this interesting, is that the other disciples were
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  writing, they wrote, see Matthew, Mark, and Luke, right?
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  They wrote, they didn't really know that their letters were going to be used. Right.
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  Like in perpetuity. Especially Luke. Right. John
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  kind of sees it and he writes his afters and he sees and
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  he's like ice okay so this is gonna might
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  be used for a long time which makes it kind
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  of interesting the the imagery that he uses right because
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  some of them are using just for that one group right
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  that that well that one language the one type that
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  kind of demographic if you will demographic yeah that's what
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  i was looking for and so much so but john
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  is realizing he's gonna it's gonna get out
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  there yeah and seven churches are an
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  illustration of that exactly yeah okay that he
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  knows it's going to get to those seven churches this message
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  needs to get out and so in the preface it includes that
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  right right yeah yeah so i
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  think john by that time i mean it was much later i mean it probably there was
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  probably 20 years maybe 25 years between the writings of paul and peter to the
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  to the revelation of john yeah even the year what do you base that that off
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  of I'm curious because I've heard much longer or much later.
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  Well, because we know that Paul died around 65 AD.
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  Yeah. And Peter may have been a year or so later, maybe as late as 68 AD. But we know that.
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  Events that that are referred to
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  in the revelation of john happened after 70
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  a.d i see because jerusalem has already fallen
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  and so that and we know that john
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  lived to be about 95 maybe 100
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  i mean he really really old for that time and that
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  it at least was after 80 a.d yeah
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  which puts it 15 to 20 to 25 years after
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  what paul wrote yeah okay i
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  like that should we do another one oh yeah all right
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  so this one's from mason he's gonna win a prize i think well no all right this
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  one's from niva niva niva oh yeah niva niva oh yeah niva h yes why has western
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  culture given up a lot of of important spiritual practices like fasting,
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  Sabbath, and others. Because it's inconvenient.
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  I mean, really, we are people of convenience.
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  We want things to, we don't want hard things.
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  We don't want things that we have to work at very much. Look at our kitchens, microwaves.
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  Ovens still work.
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  Microwaves, because of convenience.
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  Blenders. Air fryers. Air fryers, yeah. Yeah, because we're a people of convenience.
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  And taking a time for fasting, that means I might get hungry.
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  I might have to endure pain.
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  We don't want to do that. Right. And so I think we've made concessions to allow
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  our faith to be convenient and easy.
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  And we make church on Sunday morning so it doesn't mess everything else up. Right. Yeah.
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  Even church has to be convenient. Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, we have big meetings.
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  When are we going to have our church time so that it fits with everything?
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  And some churches have two different times. Depending on who you are,
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  we've got multiple options. Right. Many options. Very convenient.
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  Very convenient. Come, do your church thing, go home. Don't worry about faith the rest of the week.
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  Yeah. I think that's starting to change because I find this next generation,
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  your generation, those that embrace their faith and embrace it wholeheartedly
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  and with a lot of fervor oh yeah so i see that probably in the next 25 years
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  spiritual disciplines probably would become,
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  more widespread and practiced among believers something interesting that i have
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  found with the age of the internet and everyone's life can be completely online
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  we we talk you know a lot about the bad things but some of the good things i've
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  seen is that there's a lot of people,
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  a lot of like a cultural explosion
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  of doing hard things not for the
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  sake of let's see so you go on a diet right you know that that what that's going
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  to yield you know you're going to you're going to look better feel better healthy
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  all that stuff but there's there's other things like cold plunges where all
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  you do is you wake up in the morning first thing you do you get into this giant
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  bath filled with icy water.
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  And I'll tell you, and I think I've talked about this before,
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  but just like, you don't have to do that.
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  Just get in the shower and then turn the water on. And based on how far away
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  you are from your water heater, you know, God doesn't make all of our troubles equal.
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  Some of us are right next to it. It might only take a few seconds,
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  whereas mine's about five minutes.
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  No, two minutes. I'm sorry. So it's still, yeah, it's hard to get yourself to do it.
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  It is because we don't really enjoy pain. Right. And if you do,
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  there needs to be maybe some counseling part of that.
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  Yeah. There's multiple companies that make these ice baths. Now,
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  if there was only- Companies making ice baths. Ice baths. It's an inflatable
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  thing, and it's got a cooler in it, and it gets the water down to 30 degrees.
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  Convenient. It is convenient.
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  For sure, it's convenient. But also, people are just wanting to go and do this
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  because it yields a positive result, even though it is very, very hard.
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  It is a trial. well okay anyways
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  i think there's a lot of the good things in this
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  next generation that you know some good things that the internet is
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  showing that this long suffering or the suffering
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  you know they just yield something really really good it's great
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  well at least it's casing showcasing that suffering is not all negative right
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  that there are positive outcomes of suffering and you know i'll go back to my
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  verse yep james one two through four consider it pure joy my brothers when you
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  endure trials of many kinds because you know the testing.
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  Develops perseverance and perseverance when it's finished its work leaves you
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  mature and complete, not lacking anything. Mm-hmm.
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  Now, what about the Sabbath? What about ice baths? Yeah. What about the Sabbath?
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  Why are we doing that? And why aren't we fasting anymore?
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  I'm finding fasting is good. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I think we need to do that more. Okay.
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  Sabbath, I actually came into
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  a situation this last year where I didn't realize I didn't have a day off.
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  And and then realized that
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  i needed it yeah and and i praise the lord for a sabbath yep i mean preachers
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  are always busy on sunday right yet yet it's considered sabbath day but it's
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  not necessarily our sabbath day right but to take a day away from the normal activities and to
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  concentrate on something other than our normal. Okay.
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  I mean, we still did our devotions. We still do the things we do that nurture
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  our faith daily, but we take it aside to do something totally different. Yeah.
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  And for those of you who are working all week, consider taking a day,
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  whether it's Saturday or Sunday, as a Sabbath to do something totally different
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  than you do all the rest of the week.
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  And hopefully maybe do it around your faith and see what happens. Just see what happens.
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  Yeah. That's right. Okay. So you're at 17 minutes.
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  Let's wrap it up there. What'd you say, Don? We pray it's out.
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  We can do that. We can do that.
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  Heavenly Father, we thank you for the questions that have come from the students
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  at Hillcrest. We thank you for them and the time that we could be together with them.
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  We pray your blessing upon those who are graduating and that you would guide
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  them in their future endeavors.
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  We thank you for our listeners may they
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  be blessed by what they heard today in jesus precious
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  name amen amen thank you
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  everyone special thank you to mason and naiva naiva naiva yeah the great questions
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  it's really awesome to be able to hear from you guys and we hope you guys have
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  a good week amen we'll see you next week lord willing bye thanks again for joining
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  us for this week's episode.
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  We are both having a ton of fun making these videos and episodes.
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  And if you're having fun too, please tell a friend about this and help us to
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  grow this mission. Thank you and God bless.