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S03E05 - The YouTuber Wave · CINEMACTIVIST

• John C. Lyons: everyone, we're back. Welcome to Cinema Activist. I'm your host, John Lyons, and I have two ⁓ guests with me here today. I have David Bostaff. ⁓ his first podcast. Very exciting. ⁓ I've got podcast veterans. Aaron Madman Mook. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Thank you both for being here. I also want to thank Jason and Nikki Lavery of Lavery's Brewing Company. And we are in their new building, which is called Centennial Hall. They have some awesome music events coming up I'd want to tell you about. So we've got on July 19th, Felicity on July 20th, Dekembe. July 30th, Chirp. And July 31st, Allie the Piper. You can go to centennialhallerie.com to purchase tickets for any of their upcoming awesome shows. And it's a beautiful spot, right, gents? It is a beautiful spot. Absolutely. And also thank you to them for the beverages as well. So what are we talking about today, everyone? We're talking about what ⁓ basically everybody's talking about in Hollywood, right? Yeah, you sent the pitch. And I was like, ⁓ this is exciting. And then I saw like a hundred think pieces come out. I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna have to offer. But ⁓ yeah, the YouTuber the YouTuber to horror pipeline, which actually might be more if you were to switch it, I think it's more less a YouTuber to filmmaker pipeline and more like these are filmmakers that just happen to have YouTube and get their start there. Yeah, you know. Yeah. So the interesting thing is that, you know, we're gonna talk mainly about Curry Barker. Marky Plier. Mark Fishbach. Thank you. Kane Parsons. The Philippo brothers. Mm-hmm. And also Chris Stuckman. Is there anyone else recently that we are for you? I would also talk about Kyle Edward Ball. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, for sure. And David Sandberg. Great. And there's these guys called Radio Silence. I don't know if you've ever heard about that. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ Chad Matt and Rob. Yep. Small guys right now. Still coming up. But I like I would say that that pretty much covers like everybody who's kind of broken through from YouTube. Gotcha. But I think David was the first one to actually do it. Okay. Tangentially stepping back. Yeah. Just one step further or two, because this person did not have a breakthrough on YouTube, but their filmmaking feels very adjacent to what we're talking about. ⁓ Jane Schoenbrunn's basically all well the two films that we have. ⁓ they're new films getting a lot of buzz. Very, very, very excited. Seems like it was made in a lab for me. ⁓ but ⁓ the two movies that we have are very much movies about internet. culture in a way. ⁓ so while that person didn't have their breakthrough on YouTube, I think it's interesting a lot of the interviews that you hear with these filmmakers talk about their relationship to the internet. and it feels we'll get into it, but it just feels very interesting to me to see millennial and Gen Z filmmakers now kind of embracing Reddit and YouTube and all of these creepy know 4chan and creepypasta stuff. Yep. So So ⁓ where which one do we want to start? I mean the kind of the hot one right now is obsession. Can I can I throw out just some some general information? You all correct me if there's any stats that I'm throwing out or numbers. Absolutely. All right. So obsession. ⁓ seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar budget. YouTuber Curry Barker. ⁓ and it stars a Twitch game streamer, Indy Narvett. ⁓ so Barker wrote, directed, and starred in twenty twenty four horror movie Milk and Cereal, which I believe ⁓ you have seen. Yep, and it's free to watch on YouTube. Yep. And that cost eight hundred dollars to make. Yep. And and it dropped on YouTube where ⁓ two million views in the Three point two the last time I milk and cereal. ⁓ yeah, that's gonna just keep Going through the roof. His channel has one point two million subscribers, and the total channel has six hundred and fifty nine million views total. Okay. I bet I I'm curious I would be curious to see the comparison numbers before and after obsession on like milk and cereal. Yeah. It's under an hour long. So if folks are like, I don't know, I'm interested. I don't know if I want to commit to whole thing. It's you can start there. I mean, it's I think it's like fifty five minutes. Good call. Yeah. His movies all seem to like you can see the stuff him playing around with what he does in Obsession. It's just obsession, like is the yeah, it just taking the football running with it. So it was acquired. So again, seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar budget is what's reported. It was acquired by Focus for fifteen million dollars. ⁓ we're recording this on June eighteenth, which is about six weeks. after the release. It made 18 million on its first weekend. The box office went up 30% in the second weekend. It now sits at 192 million domestic, 290 million for the world. It just surpassed 300 million today. I literally literally saw the stat today. It's crazy. Little ROI there. Seriously. They added ⁓ they're adding more screens. It's at it it's at 3,000 some screens, which is its highest Total. Beat out beat out Mandalorian and Grogu too. That's crazy. Which is like s yeah, really so crazy. And not even I it's like not to get into the weeds, but ⁓ 'cause I I have a soft place in my heart for Star Wars and stuff too. But y it is very ⁓ interesting and exciting to see independent films and especially genre films start to beat out big franchise stuff. And you know, it it really makes me excited for the future. That's kinda and shows what audiences are Or wanting to go see. For sure. What do you think? All right, we don't have to spend a lot of time on Star Wars properties right now, but like that's kind of where I reached out to both of you is like, this film is doing better than Star Wars. I mean, Star Wars has been spending a lot of time on Disney Plus, right? For a while. And I overstaying its welcome. I didn't see ⁓ the film, but I have seen some of the critique that it it's like continued television. Yep. you both have seen it. No, I have not seen it. And actually, I will say, ⁓ just I feel bad. I feel like I I need to hand them a little bit of credit before kicking them down. When I saw the trailer, I was like, this looks like a lot of fun. ⁓ my concern probably the same with a lot of people who maybe haven't followed like the eight TV shows on Disney Plus is I was like, I don't know if I can see this as a standalone or do I need to watch four seasons of television. Yeah. ⁓ it seems like the I I and if you saw it, maybe you correct me, it seems like people have said, Yes, you can see it and it's maybe it's worth if you if you like it, if you're looking for it, if that's what you want in your life, then might be worth your time, but it doesn't really seem to be as ⁓ grabbing as as you do Did you watch Rebels? No. Okay. No series. Is it the cartoon series? It was. So I've seen I have seen like portions of it. I haven't watched the full thing, but I know a lot of people really have a lot of like reverence for it. I love it. Yeah, it's probably one of my favorite Star Wars like series, if not media at all. Okay. I for an animated, you know, but also like Star Wars animation has been doing very well. Yeah. I haven't watched the new mall series yet, but it got a lot of love. For sure. Okay. ⁓ and I would I would watch the trailer for The Mandalorian and I would see certain characters pop up and I'd be like, ⁓ man, look at that. I can't wait to and I'd look over at my partner Amanda. Yeah. And she's just like, What? Who? And I'm like, Man, you have to sit through four seasons to understand Yeah. Yeah. All right, we're gonna go see Obsession. Like you know For sure. For sure. It was yeah, there's too much heavy lifting. Got it. Well, and so there's a combination of things happening then. It's like number one, the amount of work that you have to do to potentially follow the new Star Wars movie. And then in addition to that, so what are our other options? Well, this movie's getting a lot of word of mouth. Right. You know? Right, let's give that a shot. And you can just wait, like if you're already like programming your audience to watch these like this property now, this I still on streamers. It's like for sure. I mean I know what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna I couldn't get through the the Mandalorian ⁓ second season, so ⁓ yeah, I'll probably watch the movie. I mean the the thing's cute. Groger is cute. ⁓ it's like a little mogwai. Yeah, Boba Fella. Joe Dante came forward and said they they took my shit. They they made they turned Yoda into a little Mogwai. He's cute. Yeah. It's it's it was it was popular. I wonder if it's kind of stayed. All right, well we won't ⁓ we're not here to talk about those films. So ⁓ what do we want to say about obsession and why do we feel like ⁓ I mean, I have I I feel like it's it's pretty straightforward with why these films are like having big openings, is it's not like these filmmakers are coming out of nowhere. They are from Hollywood's perspective, right? They're just like, ⁓ this is the first thing that they've ever done and it's like so huge. But it's like they've been doing stuff and building an audience ⁓ for years. Right. And then Yeah, you've got your whole audience. That's the whole thing. When you're an independent filmmaker, they're like, who's your audience? You have to identify your audience, you have to promote to them months in advance. It's like, yeah, they've built they've done the work. Yeah. They're not coming out of nowhere. For sure. So what did you could you imagine if you had already had six hundred and fifty-nine million people already look at something that you had filmed? Yeah. It's smart. You get one percent of that to show up. Mm-hmm. Right? It it's yeah, the it the ⁓ the audience is completely baked in. And it's a different kind of connection as opposed to Star Wars because it's like, you know, this is an underdog that you followed up through their career, right? And this is their first big shot. So you're not gonna wait for Iron Lung to land on YouTube. Like you're gonna go and see it because you want them to have a successful career. You like this artist. Yeah. They're selling themselves more than the the And this isn't to take away from ⁓ the quality of the film, because the quality of the films we're talking about today for the most part are are pretty high ⁓ and enjoyable. ⁓ but they're selling it you it's like you said, it's almost like when you buy into a band's new album or something, you're excited, you're looking forward to what they're doing. And it almost like it makes me think too about like we've had a renaissance of horror over the past like ten years, and now there are names that people look forward to and they're like, ⁓ there's a new Ari Astor film, there's a new Jordan Peel film, there's a new Robert Eggers film. Now the marketing is gonna be a lot of like, you know, ⁓ from the twisted mind of Curry Barker, the new Texas Chainsaw movie. And that's interesting to me. It's we need to talk about that. Yeah, for sure. He's doing next. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a little nervous personally. Like we can talk about like what we thought of the film, but I think it's got some deeply misogynistic vibes. And I'm curious about him doing slashers. Not to swear. Yes, you can I'm very ⁓ nervous about him doing slashers. I'm not sure if he has the maturity to handle ⁓ certain material personally. Give a soapbox. Can I can I get on it for a moment here? Yeah, jump on it. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is not a slasher. Leatherface is not a Michael Myers. He is not a Freddie Krueger. This is why I think Curry Barker is gonna knock it out of the fridge. ⁓ shit. Okay. The last few Texas Chainsaw movies have been Utter piles of I'm not even gonna use the word that I use. Armadillo. Yeah Yeah, yeah. Armadillo side of a Texas. Yeah. here's the thing. They focus on him being a killing machine. Yes. He's not. I love the first film. It's the twenty ones after that that are slashed. The best okay, so think about the moments in that film that stand out. Ed in the back of the car cutting his hand. You know? The vibe. How about Dravey? Yeah. Driving in the car, poking the girl at the thing, and like laughing to himself. We're talking about awkward intrapersonal moments where you're feeling nervous, nervous, which obsession freaking nailed every moment. Yeah. True? Yeah. And that's why I think he has it. Leatherface. I hope you're right. Leatherface is not the killer car. Leatherface is the wheel that comes off the car and Hits the daycare. He's when understanding the original material. Correct. For sure. He's like the icon of a larger piece. Yes. And it's almost more of a folk horror movie. It's like a rural Americana folk horror thing going on. The back rope instead of the back room. And the the thing that always disturs about that movie, and it's the second movie. So the we purchased a projector and we fired it up in my backyard. First movie we watched was Halloween three. We had some friends over. Second movie we watched. It was a it was a double feature. Second movie we watched was the original Texas Chainsaw. And the last third of that movie, the thing that always like disturbed me so much is it's it's like the audio. It's like the screaming. More than like it's not like what's really on screen. It's not really her tied to the chair so much as it's like these people are all yelling and talking over each other, and she's just screaming. And there's like not a lot of discernible dialogue for the last like 20 minutes of the film. It's just pure terror. Chaos. I think yeah, at that point the most spoken word is grandpa. Yeah, right. Right, for sure. You know? Yeah. It sounds like you but did you have less of a positive takeaway on obsession? I mean okay. So more critique, I should say, maybe. I mean, I have issues with how all of the women were handled and it and I loved the actress and I thought her performance fantastic. ⁓ I gave it probably a six out of ten, personally. Which isn't terrible, ⁓ right? I that the male lead was super annoying, which I know that's what he was to be. ⁓ but I didn't connect with him on an emotional level. I didn't connect with that character. I connected with her. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, it's basically like a slavery story, yeah. ⁓ which was super fucking creepy. and I I did like it, but then when I got out of the film you know, the other girl getting her head bashed in and stuff I just I'm not sure if Yeah, sorry, I'm yeah, there's gonna be spoiled. I guess I'll I guess I'll put I guess I'll put that in. just gonna drop this brick here. Yeah, I mean, it was well shot. It was well acted. I have no complaints about like the craft parts of it. I think it just comes down to I'm not sure that the message ⁓ I think was a little muddied and I felt like it was a little immature from ⁓ a writing ⁓ male standpoint. Which your thoughts. Well, which I'll let David go first, but also to be to be fair, as somebody's first major feature too, or first could say even like full length feature, might be something that you would expect from ⁓ you know from somebody who's still kind of finding their their footing. But maybe you can tell us about milk and cereal too and say if like, you know, if you feel like Milk and C yeah, milk and cereal's totally it it because it it tackles I don't know if it really tackles any kind of like social themes. It's really more of like ⁓ a found footage psychological horror story. ⁓ and so there isn't this because you're right, obsession is totally based around obsession and nice guys and you know thinking that they're the the is he a nice guy though? ⁓ well no he's not he thinks he is he's the archetype of he th he thinks he's a nice guy. Yeah. ⁓ and and you know there's that really chilling moment in the movie and I guess we'll already have a spoiler warning of something about that. ⁓ there's that really chilling moment where her character breaks through because she's not in control of her body. And that was great. He says something along the lines of like, Why would why wouldn't you just want to be with me? And she says, I've never been with you. Even though he was having relations with whoever is controlling her body, just, you know, not long before that. And so I, you know, I don't think anything like that is really approached in milk and cereal. I think that's more of a show of. Technical, like I made this for $800. And it's for for that, it's it's great. Okay. It's cool. I will check it out. Yeah. I I I was gonna have you go first. I'll just be super quick. I loved Obsession. I when I walked out of it, I was like, man, I think I don't know that I've ever seen something where it was so ⁓ Dark and uncomfortable and also had moments that made me laugh out loud at the same time. Yeah. And it wasn't Yeah. And it wasn't like distinctly a horror comedy either. It was more this like absurdity. There's a point where they talk to the the salesperson who's who sells the one wish willow at the store and he's like very nonchalantly like, well, you could just kill yourself. Like you know. And it's it's very funny, it's very dark. I felt like a frog in a in a pot of boiling water when I was watching it. ⁓ but I have read some critiques since then that are a little more in line with yours. And I will say Less of a critique and more of just kind of an interest is to your point, we do spend the whole movie. You kind of have to sign on being like, I'm spending the whole movie following this guy who is definitely not fun to watch or be around, which is kind of the point. But I think an an interesting angle also would be to see that movie from the perspective of a character who is fighting to regain their bodily autonomy. And I don't know if we've I I think about that and I wonder if like what movies I'm missing, if we've seen It's not really a possession movie, but those types of films where somebody is not in control of their physical being and like no for ⁓ yes, well yes, for sure. And but what it means to be just like fighting to break out of that, I I I would love to see that that angle. I think that goes right to possession, actually. Like that whole scene with her. Yeah. Like that's it it it's basic possession, obsession, like in a nutshell. Definitely had to have been an influence. ⁓ I'm sure. I'm sure. Th the the Curry does seem to know, you know. Yeah. His dad's a screenwriter too, which I don't know if you both know this, but he has a podcast. Okay. And he he breaks down like the first ⁓ fifty or sixty pages of scripts. He did do hi a a breakdown on his son's own script. So I'm curious to see what he says. ⁓ I didn't know that. Okay. But anyways, your thoughts. So I loved it as well. ⁓ But I think I'm gonna disagree a little bit with your take because I I think, yeah, you are stuck with this person who you don't like. And but I think that's the point. And I think the point is kind of turning that male gaze, the manosphere, toxic, whatever you wanna call everything that's going to frick on right now. People who can't accept themselves for who they are. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. On its ear and showing you the uncomfortable pushes all your buttons and you give it a six. Like that's what the movie was supposed to do. Usually movies that push all like say you take like a Michael Haneke movie or something like that. Michael Haneke pushes all my buttons. Make me s makes me super uncomfortable, super pissed off. Like Lars Montrier too. Like I will rate them higher because ⁓ I feel like they have more to say. This just felt like smaller, more immature. ⁓ like really like a twenty young twenty year old that's trying to date girls. But the the the screenplay is grappling with those things in a way that Yeah, it is coming from his point of view, but she has a lot to say to what freaking happens to her the whole way through. And then that ending. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Where the rug pull and then you're like, Well, what the hell happens next? Right. It's not good for anybody. No. No, it's it's it's ⁓ lose, lose, lose all the way around. It's correct. Horrifying. You know? And think about think about Brick Girl for a second, okay? What happens with her? He has a name. She is she represents everything that he was after. Correct? Yep. He is she is what he wanted from her the entire time. But he's too fucking stupid to see it. Yeah. And the moment he does, it's taken away from him by the mistake that he made. I think I think there's so much more there. I as far as I'm not saying it was terrible. You know what's really interesting? It wasn't great. Because I I'm not I wouldn't even say I'm caught in the middle because I do really love the movie, but I want to make a nine out of ten personally. Yeah, I I'd give it a nine and I would I'd like to watch it again. Yeah. But I think what's really interesting and what with your insights and just watching it again with this in mind, I've seen some interviews where people have asked Curry Parker, ⁓ are all of the wishes cursed? Like if somebody anybody who uses one wish willow Is there gonna be a monkey paw situation? And he said no. He said, which which makes me think he does know the material he's grappling with. He said grappling with, he said, his wish is just fucked up. Yeah. And that's why it has turned on him so badly. ⁓ he asks the store clerk, you know, can I use your wish? And the store clerk says, sorry, I already used mine. And he's doing just fine. Right. ⁓ it's it's not this, which I think is really great because it's not this thing where it's like magically destined to screw you over. It's like This person just is toxic to the core. They think that they're a nice guy who does the right things and deserves they they have earned and deserve this person. He knows what's best for her. Exactly. Right? So Okay, well that's great. I can't wait to watch it again. Let's let's jump into backrooms. ⁓ if you're okay with that. Okay, so backrooms, $10 million budget. Mm-hmm. All right. This is a A twenty four. ⁓ which actually talking about like this branding of filmmakers, I think you were talking about before, we can thank A twenty four for that, really, because people have started recognizing the names of Robert. They picked up talked and well, yeah, that's true. They did they partner a lot with Vegas and they partner a lot with Aster. ⁓ and then they also the movies that would not to spoil, but the movies that we're gonna get to as well, ⁓ they you know picked out Talk to me and then fund it bring her back. And so ⁓ definitely a lot to thank them for for finding these folks. ⁓ okay, so ten million dollar budget. ⁓ this is YouTuber Kane Parsons. This is also his feature linked debut. He is the youngest filmmaker to lead a box office weekend. I did find it interesting and in that case a little 'cause I saw this film as more ⁓ less adolescent. I ⁓ in his approach, in my opinion, than obsession. But people in the media kept saying like his age, you know, his age was such a thing and there were rumors. Right. And then yes, rumors about that there were other directors directing it, which is really fucking offensive. Yeah. Mark Duplas having to come in, step in and say something on social media. Good on Mark, too. Seriously. Which is great. Yes. A hundred percent. And I just think it's crazy to think like it's crazy to think A twenty four wouldn't have some kind ⁓ they're like, all right, we're giving this ten million dollar movie to a twenty year old. We're gonna get some executive producers in there that know what they're doing and have made some movies. Like, of course that's gonna happen. That doesn't mean that they're directing film. Right. Yeah. You know every movie has problems. Every I'm sure like Spielberg and Scorsese, they have some people that are coming in and helping them out if there's something that's going on. Like to say like I don't know, that just really like put me off. So media fuck fuck off. ⁓ so he goes by Kane Pixels, right? ⁓ Rolling Giant, coincidentally, well, he says is his favorite that he's made, so everybody should watch Rolling Giant. ⁓ so it had an eighty-one million dollar US opening, 120 world, 3,500 screens at its max, which that's A twenty four, the power of A twenty four now. ⁓ at its release, around 86% of the audience was younger than 35, and more than half were under 25. Yeah, when I saw so I got I was excited for this movie, but I was also ⁓ I had seen the original short and a couple of his stuff, ⁓ his videos on YouTube, and I had a little bit of ⁓ not skepticism, just like weariness about this being based on an internet property. I was like, this is kind of a thing. Yeah, it's internet. Analog horror. Yes, yes. Well, and I love analog horror. For some reason I was like, I don't like the idea of like one studio or guy kind of getting the definitive version of this thing. And so but I was excited still. And I had a friend that was really excited. So we got But you were nervous. You're a little nervous. I was little nervous. We got tickets for opening night. I was excited. And ⁓ my buddy's a teacher and he texted me and he said, Hey, what time are we going to see backrooms? He teaches si ⁓ sixth grade. I said we I got tickets for seven twenty. He said, thirty of my students are going to the showing. They were twelve. We got into the theater. He w we were ready to do the whole fake mustache glasses thing. We're like, we can just maybe scoot into the front. Maybe nobody'll see it. We walk in, six kids immediately turn around. Wow. But ⁓ you turn around. It's all kids that are like under fifteen with a guard a parent or guardian, which is very funny because the movie is not ⁓ a fast moving film. It's like a psychological kind of thing. And ⁓ I had I was imagined during the movie I I loved it. ⁓ but I was imagining during the movie like, ⁓ these kids might be really bored, but maybe three or four out of the thirty of them will leave and be like, now I'm gonna go home and pick up a camera and I'm gonna start making stuff, which which made me love it even more. Yeah, maybe both of these I I'm yeah, talking about the audience makeup. Like I now usually go to films, you might know this, on like either the Saturday very, very early screening or Sunday. Very early. And it's typically everything I see is like two seniors probably. And then it's usually like crickets out there. But going to both of these like opening weekend early on, ⁓ there were some older folks, but yeah, it was like about a dozen that early of like people that, you know, are much younger than myself. And I was super happy to see that. Yeah. How about you? Did you go see it at the both of these at the theater? Yeah, I sa I saw both of them in the theater. And how was the makeup of the audiences? Well so I saw backrooms kinda late. ⁓ okay. ⁓ so there wasn't a lot there. Yeah. Obsession was one that shocked me because I did go that second weekend. Yeah. And for a second weekend that house was packed. ⁓ yeah, that's the other thing too. Yeah, obsession, like there is a a lot. It's almost gotta be a reverse kind of situation because I think I saw obsession the first weekend, but it was it was during the day. There was not a ton of pe it wasn't like it was like maybe half full. Like it was it was it was a fine showing. Wasn't a ton of people. But I what I heard was that it continued to pick up steam, whereas backrooms, I saw that opening night and it was it was packed. And then maybe over time it's starting to maybe lose a little bit of steam. It was funny because we were getting we were making plans to go see Obsession. Yeah. And I kept texting like, Hey, why don't you come with us? Why don't you come with us? And I would like I was talking with ⁓ Sagan and Sagan's like, Well, we're going that night too. The whole front roll was all people I knew. Wow. Because we all just happen to be like going that's into everything because of the word of mouth and everything. And cool for that that the students are there. Yeah. People are into this stuff, which makes us all happy, right, as theater goers and fans of cinema. So ⁓ after about four weeks after its release now, ⁓ Can correct me if the numbers are wrong both of you guys, but it last time I checked we were at a hundred and sixty million domestic and two fifty yes for the world. Occasionally I will would watch some creepy pasta ⁓ stuff if I would notice it on my feed. ⁓ but I had not watched ⁓ like a lot of the source material here of of Kane. ⁓ but I did like the vibe of the trailer. Like I like both of the trailers for both of these films. ⁓ this one I liked more personally. David's probably like I'm not surprised. Maybe. I don't think I went into installations go bad. I saw it as like a consumer culture. com I try and reach it into everything. Like it just, you know, having these huge, like strip mall style office spaces, you know, with these bland walls and bland wallpaper that go on forever. That in having like the ⁓ all of our ⁓ furnishings and things like sinking into it, like I I don't know. I I connected personally on a level of like commentary on the horror found in strip mall. kind of feelings and liminal feeling. Liminal feeling. Yeah. Which is which is cool. So I I loved it. This I would give like probably an eight, I would say, for back rooms. Where are you both at? What did you think? What were your thoughts? So I've been watching Kane's stuff for a while and I've watched the entire backlog. ⁓ you watched the 15 minute like the back rooms found footage. Yeah, and then sporadically Beforehand I started to watch because you can watch all of the his material in about two and a half hours, I think. ⁓ cool. I started to watch through it and then I actually had a friend who had watched all of it stop me and was like, Just you should see the movie and then watch it afterwards because we can have this kind of reverse experience. It's like when I had never seen an Indiana Jones movie and I started with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. ⁓ my on purpose because I was like I have a rare opportunity. I mean you can only climb the mountain. Yeah. Right. I said I have a rare opportunity to experience this with no nostalgic baggage. And let's see, you know, how it works out for me. So, ⁓ so I had seen a few hand, you know, hand picked pieces from there. Okay. Cool. So I was a little underwhelmed by it. Okay. Because I think the found footage at like moments in it where they are carrying the camera. Yeah, yeah. Those are the most effective. Okay. I think it to spends far too long setting up the psyche of the characters. Okay. I feel like the back rooms in the back rooms movie. Yeah. There's two problems. One, there is not enough of the like we barely like in the so this kid who's sixteen and is just, you know, using Blender makes this thing feel vast. Yeah, for sure. And as an entity unto itself. Where I feel like the movie was more focused on what was inside the backrooms and how the backrooms functioned. Okay. It lost something there for me. Like trying to like make it bigger. Like like you mean with the whole like smaller. And it almost felt yeah. It almost feels like studio noti. Like we need to make this accessible to audiences by focusing on what's what's the deal with this crazy? Like how does this explain it? Yeah, yeah, it kinda a little bit. And I don't think the movie goes that far at all. I I'm glad that it does it actually stops. Thankfully I think it stops right at the perfect point of of leaving questions unanswered. But it feels a little bit like a light version of like, well, can we focus on like some kind of monster? And can we also like We can't just have vibes only. For sure. Yeah. But that's a shame. W well his so his series actually goes further into explaining what they are. than the movies do. Like he's he's chipping away at pieces of the story by that art corporation and what they're doing in there and what they were trying to use it for and everything. Th there's a lot there. But again, with anything analog horror, it's never spoon fit. Or the best ones are never spoon fit. For sure. Okay. It's just like here's weird shit. Yeah. And then to your point, that's interesting because there's not a lot of analog horror films. There's like Two that I can think of off the top of my head. And so they will be tough sells, but maybe this will be the first step into you know, if there's something else that's going But to have a typically long format thing, it feels like it's gonna be the start of a new trend probably. And if ⁓ there will be bad, very bad. You gotta wonder if they'll work the kinks out of this is typically a long format thing with a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of ⁓ yeah, vibe-based creepiness for lack of a better term. How are we going to feed that to an audience that is maybe not used to this style of storytelling? Right. If we can engineer the audience to appreciate slow burns, that would be ⁓ that'll be a giant success in my I feel like analog horror does that too because it denies you so much because of the limitations. It holds back. You want to like look around. Right. So everyone's like five minutes long and like half of it is distorted VHS tape. And you know, or bad news broadcasts, which I'm sure local 58 dudes phone is blowing up right now. Right. That's exactly what I was thinking about. There's the end of the Blair Witch right there where he's You're always getting tease, but not the full thing. Not the full piece. It's like, man, that crack was weak. Let's get another hit. You know? Yeah. For sure. I love how I looked at my arm like I inject crack, but whatever. You know, it's like, you know. I feel like Blair. That's a I'm glad that you mentioned that because I do. I think like Blair Witch. When I left backrooms, I was like, that felt like a mix ⁓ that felt like I was watching being John Malkovich that was like injected with pieces of Blair Witch product. And and to your point, the found footage sequence in the middle of the film is probably the most I love I thought the third act was very interesting and and endearing as well. But that found footage sequence in the middle of backrooms was probably the most really exciting and and creepy. Part of portion of the film when they go in and try to film and get proof and and shoot and things go awry. Yeah. That was absolutely super, super effective. And I appreciated that was something new that I hadn't really seen was them going back and forth with the found footage and the ⁓ narrative based storytelling. Yeah. I just wanted them to go down further shoots and hit different levels of content. They wanted more rooms. And instead, I mean you said you got like a consumerism kind of vibe. To me it was about It's like a landfill. Right, but it's a landfill of memories and it's about the fallibility of memory and how that impacts you as a person. Like that like the creature. I did I did like the big ⁓ pirate. Pirate guy. That was totally unexpected for polarizing. I also like I also kinda like the pirate guy. Yeah. Here's what's interesting. So I totally I agree with you. I was like, wow, this is bonkers, but I kinda love it. There's a really this is just ⁓ when I I was it was I was Leonardo in ⁓ Once Upon a Time in Hollywood when this happened during the movies. I was there is a needle drop in the movie ⁓ when they show the main actress's mother. in a in a mental institution psych ward. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ the artist is an ambient artist ⁓ called The Caretaker and the album that they played a piece of music from is called ⁓ Everywhere at the end of time, not to be confused with everything everywhere all at once. And it is a it's actually it's six albums and it's a concept of ⁓ dementia. And so it starts off the first album. It's like it is. It's crazy. It's like this is inner also internet lore. You can look it up. There's tons of YouTube video essays on it. Thanks for sharing that. The first album is very it's all nineteen kind of forties music. It's all very clear. And as you listen album through album through album, it starts to be half remembered and distorted and jumbled up things. So when that when that needle drop happens, I was like. That's cool. And I thought it was really cool. And I also thought it was ⁓ perfect for a movie that, as you said, like half remembered, half forgotten. Like the room is trying to remember what a room's supposed to be. And so things are oddly out of size and half sticking out a wall. And as it does that descent, yeah. And the room just keeps changing until it's nothing. And there's nothing left. Like it's like that memory is just completely wall. Yeah, I loved it, David. Come on. ⁓ It's my ⁓ it's my favorite movie I've seen this year. I think I like it a seven. I walked out still good. I walked out loving it, but it wouldn't have been like a ten for me. But I think that piece of just walking out and seeing all of these kids coming through made me I was like, these kids letterboxed top four is gonna be like Five Nights at Freddy's, Minecraft movie, back rooms, five nights of Freddy's two. Yeah. It's their time. Which I think is so Fascinating and interesting. I I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. I mean, like growing up, Freddie meant one thing for us. Great, yeah. But it doesn't mean that anymore for this new generation. Well, we haven't seen Iron Lung, but let me talk a little bit about the financials of Iron Lung. This is a different kind of situation. So talking about successfully building your audience for a long amount of time. This had a three million dollar budget that was self-funded. Mm-hmm. It was self-released. It was self-released on three thousand screens, which is so much money. Due to demand. Due to demand, which can be shown. Like if you can show to the theaters, like, hey, I wanna rent out your places and this is, you know, my audience that I'm bringing, an eighteen million dollar opening. ⁓ its total run was 41 million in the US, 50 in the world. It's now available exclusively on YouTube as of May 31st. In exchange for YouTube streaming exclusivity, YouTube agreed to make him an aggregator himself and to keep control of the film's distribution, which is huge. And for the physical release, ⁓ Fishbach is that his name is Fishpock printed DVDs in Blu-rays in his own home. Rather than selling them through a third party manufacturer. So this guy is like business smart. So here's the thing. Okay, so Markiplier, okay, he's a ch he's a streamer. He's been doing what are called let's play. Okay. Which is basically he's playing a game and you get to watch him play through that game. Okay. Let me let me Yes. But I feel like YouTube's his main audience. So an iron lung video game adaptation, correct? Yes. So His channel has 38.7 million subscribers. Okay. Okay. You want you wanna hold on to something? The total views for his channel is 23.6 billion. Damn. That's crazy. That's how you can say 3,000 screens. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was one of the people who went on and was like, yeah, have I watched Mark on stream? No, ever in my life. Do I know of him? Yes. Do I know like I watched like his ⁓ parasocially, you know, but like he had cancer at one point and like had some health problems. He's always been on the right side of the streamer sphere and everything, very much universally beloved. Got it. Okay. Yeah. One of his biggest playthroughs to this day, which ⁓ has hold on. That's incredible. ⁓ no, the his Five Nights at Freddy's playthrough ⁓ from 2014 has 129 million just on that one. Just watching a dude play a video game. That's skill, that's talent. Exactly. He's already been editing these together. So we already have that. Yeah, he wrote, directed, starred, edited. Yeah, it's crazy. Here's a point I want to make though. He's made this movie twice, that playthrough. ⁓ He already has. experienced everything that main character has experienced. Think about playing a game and especially like a horror game where you are in a POV. Every jump scare, every reaction, it's real for you. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And is he like narrating as he goes through? I don't watch because he's just ⁓ well he'll be like ⁓ I think we're maybe we'll maybe we'll go over here and try hang out you know he's hanging out with the with the right he's talking to his stream. Uh-huh yeah yeah you look back through that stream And there's so much to pull from. It's like a super read through of the entire narrative. That's fascinating. He also worked with the guy who created the game. That's cool. That's cool. And like had his blessing and everything. So he got to also pick through all that and everything. I have some major issues with the movie itself. He is a first time filmmaker. For sure. Okay. I've watched a lot of indie films over the years, especially Backyard. A backyard, you know. You have too. Yes. Judges, judges for the eerie horror fest. And I'm telling you, five minutes into this movie, you'd have like, Yeah, this plays at the fast. Like it's not even a question of the quality. ⁓ wow. It's pacing, uh-huh. First time editing. It's not being able to let go of, you know, this moment or that moment. Is it really moving the narrative? We starred, wrote, directed, edited it. So it's like And it's a solid and it is a solid, I would say six. But that's huge if you've ever made and especially with video game adaptations kind of notoriously not being ⁓ well received or or even being maybe necessarily faithful adaptations of the material. Yeah. So he completely knocked out of the party, especially all the parts that he like played in its production and everything. Yeah. And then so smart with the way that he's distributing it. And yeah, that that piece is really cool. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's true. He's doing everything. He's cutting out the middlemen in like every situation. Like he's gonna be breaking in the dollars. He already is. Do you know what the extreme is? What's his name? ⁓ PewDiePie. Yeah. Was the one of the top paid entertainers in the world for how many years? For sure. And that now he didn't end up on the right side of history, but you know. We don't talk about Yeah, we're not going Let's say let's say someone ⁓ you know, his ca ⁓ what's his name? ⁓ Jack Septi. ⁓ yeah. He's another one. He is doing the animated ⁓ Bloodborne movie. I okay, I did see I did know about this. For whatever reason, the first article I read about that, I thought there was some insane piece of like Guillermo del Toro's like producing this or something. And I cannot for the life of me, I feel like I've been Mandela affected. I can't find that information anywhere. ⁓ wow. But ⁓ But that is fascinating because Bloodborne is very Lovecraftian and and a lot of folks love that world. ⁓ and are hungry for more as there's never been another one. Yeah. You know, Souls games are in themselves extremely popular, but that one, you know, it hit kind of a special nerve with a lot of people and they really love it, himself included. For sure. And, you know, now he's throwing his weight. And I believe Jack was in like involved in Iron Lung in some ways too. So, you know, these guys all have baked in audiences and it's just How long is he do you have any idea how long he's been doing this? Like how old is you know the ⁓ Mark Marky ⁓ Markiplier? Yeah, Mark Mark has been since two thousand twelve. Okay. That's that's solid. That's on Twitch he has two point three million years. On fifteen years. Yeah, your first film. Okay. So he's not huge on Twitch. Right. He plays on there sometimes, it's the YouTube that like, and as you can see, he's paying it back to them as well. Yeah. By being like, Yeah, we'll just put it on here. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. It is in a weird way, it's almost like read like regional filmmaking, but instead of the region being like your area, it's the the internet, it's the whole internet. Right. And to your point earlier, you bring your whole audience with you. So it's like kind of this built in, baked in, I'm gonna have support. Regardless, you know. I wanted to get into Shelby Oaks and then we can talk about like if we want to talk about the Philippo brothers or whoever else we want to talk about. But Shelby Oaks was like the next most recently released one, right? Which is a weird twist because we're to up to this point we've talked about people who have been pretty much entertainers themselves. Yeah. And he's a he's a film reviewer, right? A film critical on YouTube. Yeah, he's a critic. Yep. Yep. So Shelby Oaks ⁓ okay, so this one's a little complicated. ⁓ it was the highest ever Kickstarter raise for a horror feature. Yes. It made 1.4 million gross on Kickstarter. But any of you ⁓ listening to this that has ever done a Kickstarter campaign, there are fees, then you have backer rewards, which you have to pay for shipping and other things for. ⁓ so neon then. ⁓ came in to help for the reshoots and the reported total budget is a million plus from what I could find. Really? Okay. That's really low. Yes. So we're talking about Chris Stuckman who shout out to Chris Stuckman has been at the Erie Horror Fest and it was awesome to meet him. ⁓ Aaron B. Koontz, ⁓ also a veteran of the Horror Fest, came in with early producer help. And then Mike Flanagan ⁓ came in later as an executive producer. It ⁓ reached eighteen hundred screens max, so much lower than the films that we're talking about. ⁓ in its run, it made four point five million in the US and eight million worldwide on roughly a one million dollar budget. So not ⁓ you know we it feels like he's kind of forgotten in this conversation a little bit. For sure. But like for reasons. For reasons, but ⁓ but Shelby Oaks was like that was a huge story for independent filmmakers to have a film reach that level of support again, thanks to leveraging his his base on YouTube ⁓ with such an amount on Kickstarter. ⁓ so Shelby Oaks, what are what are our thoughts on Shelby Oaks? I know nothing of Chris Stuckman really at all. It's that was when I saw when I read that he was a film critic, it was fascinating to me. ⁓ and I was like, you know, obviously I don't think one hundred percent that the skill set is definitely gonna translate, but you never know. ⁓ I'm sure he's knowledgeable and has seen a lot of horror. ⁓ so I actually heard quite a few negative reviews going into it. ⁓ I didn't see it in theaters, I watched it at home when it was on VOD. And I thought that it was better than I was expecting based on what people were saying, but ⁓ definitely wasn't in love with it. ⁓ I think the pieces are there, some of the pieces are there. It felt like there was ⁓ connective tissue that was missing. It also felt like I've seen a couple of films like this, ⁓ A Quiet Place Part Two comes to mind as well, where it felt like there was an entire third act sequence or ending to the film that was like chomped. was like I was just it was totally missing any ⁓ you know kind of conclusion not in a way that is intriguing like there's questions left unanswered but more like it feels like there's a piece of this that's missing. ⁓ I thought that like he clearly knows I think it was well made in the sense of like it looked good. It had the moments that are supposed to be creepy or scary, ⁓ had a little bit of Rosemary's baby in it, had a little bit of Osgood Perkins in it, but it also kind of felt like a buy the numbers take on that type of material. ⁓ that being said, if he were to continue pursuing filmmaking, I would definitely certainly look into whatever he does next. I didn't I didn't hate it the way ⁓ some folks did. I will say, yeah, I didn't hate it either. I probably am in the six range for Shelby Oaks. I was a little disappointed. I did same like you. I felt like there was something missing, and I do wonder, like read after reading that Neon kind of came in and helped out, did some resuits. I wonder if there were some things that Well, it's another film that also, interestingly enough, ⁓ and I didn't think about this when we mentioned it about backrooms, but it's another film that starts backrooms doesn't do it this way. But Shelby Oak starts found footage and there's a sharp left turn, almost kind of like a twister reveal where the s second and third act are narrative, yeah. Your normal kind of narrative yeah camera stuff. ⁓ the thing I did forget is he had a whole series that he did on YouTube. So he did the review thing. But he also did that what's the ⁓ series that's in the movie? It's Paranormal Paranormal Paranoids. Paranoids. He did a whole series of that on YouTube as well. Okay. Hmm. Which he maybe used as a marketing tool to lead into the film. I can't remember which which came first, but ⁓ yeah, so he also had an as like some established found footage kind of stuff that he set up as well. But yeah, it's I'm not sure it quite translated for me as far as ⁓ I did feel it was lacking. S there was something that was lacking. No. And I'm not sure that the found footage stuff really ⁓ gelled well with the live action footage in my opinion. I'm trying to I it's hard because I'm easy to please. I like watching I love watching movies. I just love watching movies, even bad ones. And ⁓ so there's a piece of me that's like, well He's a first time filmmaker. And then but then there's also this other piece of me that's like, Yeah, but you have the benefit of the doubt of this huge audience and Neon came in and did their thing and you're playing with the big boys now. So like, you know, it's you when it's can you know, I like I said, I would watch another feature by him. I didn't dislike it that much, but I also feel like ⁓ it's fair to critique and say there was there were some things that did not work for that film. Filmmaking is hard. Very, very hard. And I can't really think of a lot of critics, ⁓ maybe just ⁓ Goddard and like that whole ⁓ the French new Yeah, those are the those guys. I mean Ebert turned into a screenwriter. Bogdanovich. Yeah, okay. ⁓ but as far as like stepping behind the camera and like directing and I guess Bogdanovich produced and stuff too. But yeah. There's not too many. There's not too many like big critic success stories other than like the French New Wave and yeah, some of the ⁓ like craft positions. What were you gonna say, David? What are your thoughts on Shelby Oaks? I why do I feel like it's gonna be even more positive than than our glowing reviews? You know, I have my notes here from watching it that night. Mine was not a negative review, I would say. I don't say I absolutely hated the flip from Falcon because to me it was marketed as such. All the paranormal paranoid stuff. He actually even had some other YouTubers who cover like analog horror ⁓ kind of go through and recap those. ⁓ okay. And so it was kind of trying to expand his audience a little and everything. It's an interesting move for a s if a stronger film attempted it and was able to pull it off. It's an interesting move to pull the rug, but I I agree with you. I get it. Not only the moment did it change. From that it changed from what was going to look like a found footage or mockumentary cinema veritable. It lost me, but then it insulted me when I had to watch a woman watching the movie that I wanted to watch. Yeah, that was a bit annoying. Yeah, that's a good call. That's a good call. Yeah. Watching someone watch a found footage. And it was like now you were stuck between this family drama, melodrama versus then like. So there there's a found footage series called Horror in the High Desert. I love ⁓ my I love Horror in the High Desert. You will hate them. Okay. Won't be ⁓ that's the last one's the weakest. Yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But they are shot in a mockumentary style and it's all presented in this testimonial way that I am like talking head. Yeah. It's like a true crime doc. Okay. Exactly. It's like a fake true crime doc, but with this high strangeness thing going on. And there's enough questions that it feels almost like analog war. The mystery keeps stringing you along with like it's not specifically a a ghost or a monster. It's just kind of this this weirdness happening in the valley. Yep. ⁓ I'm so glad you've seen it because I am a slut for those I know. And even with the last one being the weakest, I'm like whatever the I don't Well whatever Minor or Mantis or whatever they're gonna call it is going to be. I mean, it's the what? Usually between like an hour fifteen to an hour twenty with five minutes at the end that is, you know, weird butt clenching. I'm watching at two in the morning. ⁓ my God. You know. Yes. But I just thought through some of the most banal filmmaking. But because I'm so invested in it, because of the way it's done, that it it it it just works. And where Shelby Oaks went away from it was they he went right into this melodrama that instantly I was like, who the fuck cares? And so many cliche. ⁓ my God. Like, stop with the Frumming of the deep piano and strings and shit when you're trying to creep me out. Like it just it it was Too many over it was bad. I'm gonna give you the two. ⁓ damn. No, like seriously, because like that shot of the prison where it was like PS1. ⁓ yes, that was okay. She just pulls up to this old abandoned prison and I'm like, let me just walk in here, lol. Like this, no, like And then those fucking dogs look like crap. They do look bad. Like the hellhounds coming out of nowhere. And I'm like, no, I don't I I want I want dude in a corner and screaming. I don't want CGI fucking dogs trying to kill me. Yeah, there's there's just I have a I have like a critique of Osgood Perkins, which I enjoy. I I see I see the movies he puts out. I enjoy all of them to an extent, but it seems to be an ongoing thing that I don't love, specifically with his writing, not his directing, where because the movies all look great, they have those moments, but there always seems to be this thing of like, wouldn't it be weird if that happened? Wouldn't that just be like super weird at super left field? Just throw that in there. And it's like there's stuff in long legs that it feels like, ⁓ you know, and I know a lot of people love that film and I think it's really interesting, but it's like there's stuff in that movie that feels disconnected, like it's there just for like weirdness for weirdness' sake. I I sometimes not motivated. Yeah, I call it like bonkers horror. It feels like this new subgenre that's a little bit related to the A twenty four neon thing. And I love the movies those studios do, but it feels like kind of this thing that where people are like, we just want to see like the weirdest left field thing that you could put on screen. It might have nothing to do with the central pro plot of long legs being this serial kill this esoteric serial killer. But We're gonna have some really weird like black smoke is gonna come out of this thing's head and just because it looks cool or it's so random. Yes, that it feels like that in horror form and that's risky. It sucks because the the filmmaking itself is really well done and and it looks really good and it is creepy, but it doesn't always work for me if it's not anchored in the f in the film's rules or universe. It doesn't work for me. And I think that that's how Shelby Oaks felt like to me as well. ⁓ yeah, definitely. Definitely. They're just throwing spaghetti at the end. It's not really playing by any kind of in universe rules or logic. It's just exactly I didn't feel that much about that with long legs as I did with the monkey. The monkey. I I like the monkey more than I did not like the monkey. Keeper or long legs, but I enjoy I I do. Like I the Osgood Perkin stuff, I like all of it to an extent. It's just all there's always something that keeps me from the monkey felt way too random to me, where I felt like I just On a vibe level. For sure. I just kind of settled in with long legs and I kind of started drinking the Kool-Aid. Definitely way different than not the same as Shelby Oakes when we talk about pulling the rug out narratively. Yeah. But I think that the the make or break point in long legs is because it wasn't marketed as this at all, when the psychic element is introduced, like twenty to thirty minutes in that movie where you're like the protagonist has this kind of psychic ability. It's not just like a silence of the lambs thing. Right, right. You either kinda get on board and I've got a lot of friends that do and I get it. I want to get on board. I'm not like it's not even one of those things where I'm like, this is bad. It's just kind of for whatever reason, it doesn't grasp on to me the way I wish it did, but I I I get it. I wish I I wish I liked it a little bit more than I did, you know? Yeah. ⁓ Did you I wish I wish I liked Shelby Oaks? I was gonna mention long legs too, electric boogaloo. It's interesting. But then also ⁓ we mentioned possession earlier. They're remaking possession. Yeah. Nervous about that. I'm nervous. I'm nervous about it too. ⁓ Margaret Quali got the got the sign on Quali. And I think she's really good. I still feel like nobody can touch that original performance. No. And so I I hope that they're maybe. We'll see. Yeah. I I hope there's an attempt to just do it in a way that is successful and not like Completely tries to do the same thing or you know It's always risky when you take something like like ⁓ you know when they announce like Susperia's getting remade or you know the pitchforks come out. I did enjoy that one personally. But you know, it it's different. Apples and lots of different movies. That's a ⁓ one of their warfests. That's the way to do it. That's Alyssa's favorite movie. Yeah, that's the way to look at it. Yeah, I can see why. It feels like a Von Trier movie more than it more than anything else, you know. Let's ⁓ I wanna give a little time to Danny and Michael Philippo and talk to me and bring her back, which I liked talk to me, but I thought bring her back was great. I agree with you. Yeah, I do too. I agree with you. I think they're both good films and I finished talk to me and I was like, that was good. And then I watched Bring Her Back and I was like, Wow, they're the real deal. Mm-hmm. I I thought it was fantastic. Emotionally, just really great at crafting. ⁓ I know, I mean, I know you're supposed to hate her, but also there is an emotional feel at the end of that movie where I was like, they somehow managed to tug at my emotions and heartstrings. Being a parent. Yes. And well, and that changed for me too. So that it does. That changes things too. But you're like, this is the worst person in the world. And yet I still feel yeah. Yep. I don't want to, but man, I kind of feel for you. Yeah, no, I thought talk to me. ⁓ it was solid. I enjoyed it. Up until the ending. I thought the ending kind of just like eatered out for me a little bit. Definitely not the case with bring her back. Yeah. Yeah. Bring her back just kick kick kicking balls the whole way. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have any stats on their stuff, but I'm gonna assume it's successful. It was successful. Nine ⁓ ninety million for ninety-five million for talk to me. 40 million for Bring Her Back, which was a little more than twice the budget. So I don't know what the numbers are that I know sometimes I hear it's you have to make twice as much, you have to make three times as much in order for something to be successful. But Talk to Me for sure was a smash success. And I think there's a kind of this weird thing too. We just show we just had a film screening where we showed the old dark house and we were talking about how it was under like it was forgotten a lot of times because it doesn't have an iconic monster attached to it. And I think it's interesting. A twenty-four is like branding and marketing. Talk to they sell funny stuff on their website. Talk to me has this iconic the hand, and you can buy like physical copies of the hand. I think it's ⁓ either an incense holder or it's a marijuana smoking device. Yeah. ⁓ but they sell that on the website. I don't know if Bring Her Back has anything that like ⁓ an artifact that that's tan that tangibly like we're gonna bring this to life. They sell like Midsommer. ⁓ I love the little house t ⁓ incense burner. Mm-hmm. Pearl Pearl has Christmas ornaments. They have Pearl Christmas ornaments, that kind of thing. But I think that's kind of interesting. ⁓ Rocca Rocka ⁓ six point eight eight million subscribers, one point one eight billion views. Yeah, and they do like like comedy stunt stuff too. Yeah. Like yeah. Different than these films. Like for sure. So they're up kind of Ronald McDonald tastes Burger King has ninety two point five million views. Yes. Okay. ⁓ man. Damn. Clon they yeah. Canon works. In in about forty years, we're gonna get a criterion release of the early films of them, and it's gonna have Ronald McDonald use Burger King on it and four K transfer. So just so you both know, if you didn't already, their next is Talk Two Me. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Which yeah, I I hope that ⁓ you know, it raises raises the bar on the first one. Yeah. Yeah, I would like I'm I some movies I want a sync a sequel for, some other movies it's not like I don't want talk to me. I I feel like it'll probably be really good 'cause I think that they're great. I would love another just original premise from them, honestly. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I kind of feel that way about backrooms too. I know that he's already talked about expanding that universe and that's cool. But I've seen what he can do w everybody online has seen what he can do with an existing IP, or maybe not an IP, but this existing lore for over three years now. So now I'd love to see what he's Well, and he with two different ones because Rolling Giant is a completely different analog, you know, offshoot that he's been doing. And it's it's good. I enjoyed it. So it's very weird. Yeah, but like you're he's taking these odd like the backrooms was not his creation. Right, right. Okay. He just, you know, there's that picture that popped up on 4chan with the block, you know, very creepy pasta esque. But then he ran with it. Yeah, he's very talented. Yeah, don't fuck with people who know how to use Blender. Seriously. And they used it a lot on the big budget film, right? Like he he blendered out all the environments. Because he had already like mastered the way to make it look and everything. Like I had a friend trying to ⁓ explain. the impressiveness of the scope of that to their mom. And their mom was like, I don't know what Blunder is. Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Sounds like he made a good movie. I don't know. You know. But ⁓ no, I I yeah, Talk to Me, I mean I'm sure, I'm sure Talk to Me will be I would be shocked if it was not good. I just I think that they've done so well with the with the first two films that I would just love to keep seeing original. For sure. Again, Talk to Me was Okay. You know, well well, no, good. Yeah. Okay. Bring her back was an another level of it. Yeah, sure was. To me, the it's not disappointment, but it's like, well, we're circling back down to the thing that I was, you know, I enjoyed. And I think it's a, you know, it's a good movie, but I wasn't it wasn't as exciting as that. So yeah, to me, if they would have announced a new like IP, I would have been a little more excited than like going back to I I will say they they might be it might I don't think typically I would say that's like Probably what the studio ordered or something, but I that doesn't seem to be the case because A24 continues to give Ariaster original premises, even though his movies tank over and over. And I love them to death. The thing is, I am like probably the biggest Bose Afraid fan that exists. Yeah, that's true. And I thought Eddington was a real hoot, and now his new movie sounds like it's gonna be inspired by ⁓ Jake Paul and Erica Kirk and all these people. And so it seems like he's gonna continue doing this kind of satirical, dark. maybe thriller thing. ⁓ and I love it. And I hope A twenty four keeps giving him money, even if it doesn't do the best in theaters. I like seeing him handle weird original material. Yeah. It's exciting. A twenty-four understands the life cycle of a cult film. So, you know, for sure, there are a lot of people who watch Bo is Afraid and went, What? Yeah. And then there's people who are like, ⁓ man, I can't wait to own the eight D eight disc version of that with, you know. Yeah. They do their own physical distribution. And when you get because I there's a membership for this club. A A. I certainly don't have the money to join it, but I've got I know some folks online that were like, Hey, they're having a sale. If you want something, I'll order it for you. And when I got the ⁓ the I saw the TV glow release, which was the first one I got, it opens up. It's really nice. It's got this like cardboard case with alternate artwork. It opens up, pulls out. There's my Eddington release has like postcards, like customized postcards and Lake House is a beautiful, very long package and stuff. So Midsumar. What else do I have of theirs? Brutalist. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. They do your Yeah, they they they put like I I think physical media collectors probably to some extent, you know, put their money back into A twenty four and can take They know their audience. They charge criterion prices for definitely good stuff. But as long as you're getting that care in the packaging and the quality, like criterion, you know what you're gonna pay it. Yep. So yeah. Hey, ⁓ can we talk about Kyle Edward Ball real quick? Yeah, please. Go. So I'm sure you never saw Skinemarink. It's been in my queue forever. I did not watch it. Damn. You've watched it. I've watched it. I have I have big Feelings about it. I have big feelings about it too. I'm scared because we usually don't agree on stuff. I'm scared. So here's my take on Skinamar Inc., okay. It is an important movie. I think it's it's it's what has really allowed this rolling ball to gather more at this point. Okay. It was the momentum that pushed because right after it is when Kane got signed. Okay. Okay. And pro when I originally when I said I can only think of two liminal horror movies, this is the other one. It's backrooms and this. After you mentioned Blair Witch, arguably that could probably be one of the first lim even though it's not liminal spaces, it's very much has that DNA. Yeah, that disorientation. Skinemarink, after watching that and backrooms, both films, I was like, I felt Blair Witch in there. Skinemarink is a movie that I will talk about forever. I will probably never watch it again. Okay. It is so unique and interesting, and it is an experience. Yeah. Andy Warhol shooting, was it him that shot Empire? Yeah. Was it how long was that? 24 hours? Yeah. Long time. One day. At least one day. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That is this movie, but you are trapped in a child's body in a house of hell. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You watch the when you watch this, I want it to be two AM. Okay. I want no lights on. I want no lights on and your audio Yes, that's the ideal set all the way up. You need to immerse in I will then have the head. ⁓ there you go. Because when you watch this film and it's bright out and you have distractions and it is not going to speak to No chance. There's no hope. There is. There's no there isn't. You are gonna be bored. 'Cause you're like, why am I staring at the corner of the room? Yeah. Got it. And you're not gonna be thinking about what you're not seeing. Yeah. And everything. All right, I I will watch it. I told you probably four years ago or whatever that I would watch it. I will watch it. You know, I almost said I said I'm like What's his fault? What's their fault? So he there's an expansion. It's not as expansive because what happened with him was something completely unique. So ⁓ Bite Size Nightmares, which is his YouTube channel, has only been around since twenty fifteen. 54.7,000 viewers. Okay. ⁓ 1.45 million views. Heck, which is kind of like the proof of concept. Exactly. It's a twenty five minute short film version of skin emergency. Which a lot of people prefer. I prefer skin emergency. A lot of people say heck is like that's the one because it doesn't overstay its welcome. Modern attention spans. For sure. Okay. For sure. ⁓ has seven hundred and thirty one thousand views. Okay. Now, what happened with Skinner Rink was it played at A Big Fest. A Big Fest. Fantasia? I think it was Fantasia that it played at. And what happened was people the people who bought into it and were able to feel what that movie wants you to feel, okay, got freaked the fuck out. And they went right to Reddit and social media, and they were like, Dude, I just shit myself in a theater. I just saw the scariest goddamn thing. And there's such an appetite. And I know you feel this. And I know you feel this from time to time too. Okay. But you wanna be disturbed. You wanna be scared. ⁓ I I'm constantly craving that. I want something to push my buttons. And so sometimes I end up watching shit and I'm like, why didn't Mark of shame. I feel really dirty right now. You know, I gotta take a shower and I didn't even get scared. I didn't want to watch this, but I was looking for that feeling, and especially among horror fans. So when you have people and more than one say, This is the scariest freaking crap ever, it started this kind of cascade effect where people were like, Well, I've got to see this, I've got to see this. For sure, for sure. And then viewings started blowing up when it did happen. Okay, that's a good word of mouth. That's a solid festival. That's the value of the festival, right? But it's also the value of somebody getting your fucking movie. Yeah. You know, and that's a difficult one to get to. Are they making it? Do we know if they're making another thing? They are. They have a script done. Okay. ⁓ I would be interested if folks who watched backrooms and enjoyed ⁓ not the background talkie. parts, which isn't bad. That's just part of that film's DNA. But the people that really keyed in on more the Luminal Space aspect of it, I'd be curious if those people either haven't saw it or they did and they it wasn't for them if they were to revisit it, if it would click differently. Got it. Wait, h hold on. Let's circle the wagon back around. Skinemarink. So you gotta g you gotta you gotta give me some I I outside of Kyle Edward Ball, I am probably the number one skinnemarink fan. Okay. I love I love the film. I saw the teaser when it came out and thought that ⁓ aesthetically I was just like, ⁓ I it's interesting. It looks like analog horror, and I haven't seen really a film version of that. And so I went in with like no, I was like, I was like interested, but there was no like real hype level for me. I didn't see any of that stuff. I was just like, I'm gonna watch this movie. ⁓ and I did watch it. It's so funny. Like, I it was optimal for me because nobody told me to do it. I just watched it one night with the The lights were off. Yes. Turned the volume up. And it scared me like in a way that I like hadn't felt scared in a really, really, really long time. Where when I was going upstairs to my bedroom, I was afraid of something grabbing my ankles kind of thing. That's great. ⁓ and so I just really, really like it. It is not a narratively traditional film. I totally understand why it doesn't work for people. I just it really works for me. I've watched it a handful of times now. I ended up Getting the physical release and watching it with Kyle Edward Ball's commentary. Okay. and really sweet and jokes a lot about how he gets really hung up on in one scene. There's 'cause it's basically it is, as you said, it's kids trapped in a house. ⁓ their parents disappear, the windows and the doors of the house disappear, and they're just stuck there. Damn. And ⁓ there's Legos, there's kids' toys, there's Legos and stuff, and there's a single orange brick separator that was not introduced until like Two thousand eleven, even though the film takes place in nineteen ninety six. Okay. But when you're watching with the commentary, he's like that fucking brick separator. Like you see, it's really hung up on it. ⁓ but I I love it. It it feels like a new like the same way that I would think maybe seeing Blair Witch Blair Witch Blair Witch not being the first found footage film, but being maybe the first that got this word of mouth spread and people went out to go see it. That's how I felt watching Skin ⁓ Rink, where I just like, I don't think I've seen something like this before. ⁓ man, you guys have me so excited. And yeah, and it well, and it's the polarization thing is a bug. It's a feature for me, not a bug. I think it's really interesting when a movie comes out and is so bold that some folks really loathe it. And some folks it just it really clicks like on a deeper level with them. So for me it works. But that being said, when I don't get hot headed or or upset when people don't. Like it because it's it is. It's a very distinct slow kind of ⁓ mood piece. Okay. Sure. I'll take care of That's what makes it challenging though, because it's not it's not the Goonies. You can't just pop it on in the middle of the day and be I'm gonna sit here and watch skinner ink and drink a beer. You know, because it it She to truly appreciate it. Yeah, be in the right. And that's why I'm like, I can't be dismissive. I'm glad that you it's like an art exhibit more than like a movie. Yeah. It's like something you'd go to an exhibit and see. Like they control the environment. It's crazy that it ended up getting the distribution and making the money there. That's cool. You know, that's very cool. Yeah. Well, thanks for bringing it up for sure. Yes, thanks for putting in the I was gonna mention earlier when we were talking backrooms and I and I forgot. So I'm glad that you circle back to it. It's one of my favorites. Do I ⁓ give any last impressions? Personally I'm just excited that ⁓ the youths are coming back to the cinema. Yeah. And I think this is ⁓ exciting potential. That I hear that, you know, they're scouring Reddit and and stuff, you know, Hollywood, they're late to And that's yeah, and that I don't love. Yeah. Hollywood always hull it's it's that case of doing sometimes maybe doing the right thing for the wrong reasons where you're like I'm gonna learn the wrong lesson. Yeah. Yeah. CEO Moneybags is like, ⁓ we gotta we gotta find more no sleep stories and adapt them. And I'm like, I don't. And also with you, it's like there's gotta be some some quality control. And I love, I don't wanna sound like dismissive or skeptical because the movies we talked about today are largely really solid and exciting and are promising. ⁓ but I you know, you get worried about Hollywood taking yeah, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons and you're like, ⁓ are they just gonna start plucking YouTubers and being like, Let's give him Friday the thirteenth, let's give him ⁓ I wanna see ⁓ PewDiePie do Tetsuo the Iron Man. Let's give him like like like Yeah, I might actually care. Well, yeah, I would be curious what it looks like, but you know there's always kind of the flip side of like, I just hope with ⁓ moderation. I hope that it's a good thing. Very exciting right now. I want to be positive about it. I'm mostly positive about it. I was thinking, like, the last time we saw something like this happen, where it was like Hollywood's like, hey, I'm just gonna rape and pillage this, was really music video directors. ⁓ yeah. That's a great comparison. Because like that was really their proving ground, you know, Fincher and like all those guys. Late nineties, mid nineties. You know when they played music videos? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mark Mark Bellington. That's what the cost as well. He Spike Jones. Yeah. Like I how many how many like of your big auteurs today come from that background? Where sure I and before that Like maybe Corman. Well, before that it was probably like the Sundance people of like, you know, Tarantino, Rodriguez, Soderbergh. Well that's like nineties ish. And that's when it's like, you know, you turn on VH one and go, What? Okay, never mind. You know, that's that era. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, there's definitely gonna be some garbage coming, but ⁓ excited about the, you know, the new talents to get an opportunity like this because these are huge swings and ⁓ yeah, I love the new voices and new approaches and it's so interesting seeing like ⁓ Curry Barker talk about when he was talking about his Texas Chainsaw ⁓ film, he was talking about how much he loves the two thousand and three one. And he also was talking about I saw an interview where they said what's like the scariest movie you've ever seen and he was like, ⁓ it's so basic, but I'm gonna say hereditary. And when I was watching that, I was like, I saw that movie in theaters less than ten years ago. And I'm getting older, so it might be a symptom it might be a symptom of that. But I'm like things are moving really fast. And I'm seeing like the movies that I saw on theaters are now becoming the influences on people that are coming up. And that's really interesting. Welcome to the club. Yeah. Yeah. That's very damn cool. ⁓ what do you have coming up? So this is gonna air in like early July. Do you have anything in like July that you want to? ⁓ so we have been doing a f a series of film screenings under the name ⁓ Real Rituals. and so it is public domain genre film screenings, ⁓ well, mostly public domain. Donations were the first two. Very successful. Well, we've been doing we've been doing pretty good. We've done a few of them so far. The first two were donation based. ⁓ all of that money goes right back into programming. So We immediately got ourselves our own projector and text so that, you know, we could go to venues that don't have that set up for us. after that, the last thing we're taking care of right now is audio. After that, it'll go into film licensing. ⁓ but for now we're showing a lot of public domain films and we're doing ⁓ kind of a presentation about the film's history or the themes beforehand and afterwards having some kind of discussion. ⁓ in July we're gonna be at 1020 collective. It's gonna be July 31st, which is a Friday. Doors probably at 5:30, presentation around seven, movie around eight. What's the film? It is the Driller Killer, which is very different than we've been showing. We've been showing 1930s to 50s films. ⁓ this is gonna be a little different, but it's gonna be really fun. We can talk about video nasties. And ⁓ I think it's ten dollars to get in. ⁓ all like I said, all that money split between us and the venue, goes back into our programming. And there's free popcorn. You can bring your snacks and stuff, and they have a bar. So if you're able to make it. ⁓ we're just we're just doing that and we're having a great time just watching movies with people. Awesome. It's awesome. Are you writing? You're working on the thing? Okay. All right. Well, thank you, bo yeah. Sorry. No, I was just gonna say there'll be more information about ⁓ Erie Horror Fest in the future. We don't really have a lot that we can share right now, but it's coming. ⁓ yeah, it's coming. Folks know that we're taking twenty twenty six off. ⁓ in preparation for 2027 and ⁓ I don't think it's too much to share that we'll have some kind of fundraising events happening between now and then. So just keep your eye eyes peeled on our social media. Really easy to find. It's Erie Horror Fest two Ease. ⁓ and there'll be more information about those events ⁓ in the near future. Awesome. Yeah, great fest, great event. Thank you both so much for being here. This has been a lot of fun. This was a blast. This is, yeah. Thank you for having me. We'll have to do it again. I'd love to. Absolutely. All right.