Latest / The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness / Coming Alive Again | Amayra Hamilton on Grief, Aging, Self-Love & Finding Home

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Coming Alive Again | Amayra Hamilton on Grief, Aging, Self-Love & Finding Home · The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Observatory Podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: With your hosts Scott and lay Wright.
0:08
Speaker 1: Join us each week as we explore living life from
0:11
Speaker 1: the inside out. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today,
0:20
Speaker 1: we're going to sit down with our good friend once again,
0:24
Speaker 1: Amira Hamilton. Amaya's been on the show before and she's
0:28
Speaker 1: about to go on an adventure, embark on a new
0:33
Speaker 1: chapter in her life, and we wanted to have another
0:36
Speaker 1: sit down discussion with her before she leaves. She's going
0:38
Speaker 1: to leave the country, so we want to take this
0:41
Speaker 1: opportunity to sit down and visit with her. And this
0:43
Speaker 1: is a wonderful conversation, so we'd love you to just
0:47
Speaker 1: sit back, relax and enjoy this beautiful conversation with our
0:50
Speaker 1: good friend, Amira Hamilton. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today,
0:57
Speaker 1: we're sitting in the home of one of our dear friends,
1:01
Speaker 1: Amira Hamilton. She's been on our show before and we
1:07
Speaker 1: got the opportunity to make a trip down to her
1:09
Speaker 1: home here in Cornville, Arizona, and we came down here
1:15
Speaker 1: to pick up what we call Singing One set that
1:18
Speaker 1: my friend made and she's moving out of the country
1:22
Speaker 1: and can't take them with her and they're just amazing
1:24
Speaker 1: and we had to come down, but not just for that.
1:27
Speaker 1: We really wanted to come and see you because you're
1:31
Speaker 1: going to be gone.
1:33
Speaker 3: Yeah I will miss you.
1:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will miss you. We've had such a beautiful
1:39
Speaker 2: friendship over the years and it's just so meaningful. In fact,
1:43
Speaker 2: we've been sitting here visiting and Scott said, if we
1:45
Speaker 2: don't get started, we're not going to get the podcast done.
1:47
Speaker 2: So I think that's so indicative of just how much
1:52
Speaker 2: we love you and how easy the time flows when
1:55
Speaker 2: we're with you.
1:56
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, I agree.
1:59
Speaker 1: And you've been before. So this is your second appearance
2:02
Speaker 1: on the Observatory, Yes, with an honor. And there's lots
2:08
Speaker 1: of things that we want to talk about, but some
2:12
Speaker 1: specific things, and we've been kind of bantering back and
2:15
Speaker 1: forth here as we've been kind of deciding what to say,
2:20
Speaker 1: and aging is one of the things that we want
2:22
Speaker 1: to talk about. This is something that we've been talking
2:26
Speaker 1: about actually quite a bit lately. And this move you're making,
2:30
Speaker 1: you're going back to Holland, where you're from originally, and
2:34
Speaker 1: you've been how long have you been in the.
2:35
Speaker 3: US now, I have been in the US twenty nine
2:38
Speaker 3: years nine years in the thirty Valley here, Yeah.
2:43
Speaker 1: And her and or her husband Michael ran the beautiful
2:48
Speaker 1: retreat center. I don't know if you call it a
2:50
Speaker 1: retreat center. It was Angel Valley and that's where we
2:56
Speaker 1: we were introduced to you by some of our good
2:59
Speaker 1: friends and I in.
3:02
Speaker 3: The previous podcast we were talking about that quite extensively.
3:06
Speaker 3: That was lovely.
3:08
Speaker 2: And since the podcast, you've written a book.
3:12
Speaker 3: I've written the book, Yes, and.
3:14
Speaker 2: We want to hear about that process and how that feels.
3:18
Speaker 2: To have that expression now out in the world.
3:22
Speaker 3: That feels really good because that book had been in
3:26
Speaker 3: the making for many, many years. It is a book
3:29
Speaker 3: about grief. And in the previous podcast we did talk
3:33
Speaker 3: about grief. It had to do and it all started
3:38
Speaker 3: with in nineteen ninety nine, my son passed away, my
3:43
Speaker 3: twenty eight year old son, which was the biggest drama
3:49
Speaker 3: drama in my life has been and he told me
3:57
Speaker 3: after a few years, I heard him say, you have
4:00
Speaker 3: to do something with this experience of grieving, and so
4:05
Speaker 3: I started doing grief work with people, helping helping others
4:11
Speaker 3: to go through grief. And I always had this feeling
4:16
Speaker 3: kind of you know, I want to give people something
4:20
Speaker 3: that they can go back to, because one of the
4:24
Speaker 3: things with grief is that you can only do so much.
4:29
Speaker 3: You can only handle so much. So whatever you're doing
4:34
Speaker 3: in a session, when you have somebody who is giving,
4:39
Speaker 3: who is let's say, helping you to handle it, there's
4:44
Speaker 3: only so much you can you can handle. So I thought,
4:50
Speaker 3: kind of, what if I put this on paper so
4:53
Speaker 3: that people can take that home with them and then
4:58
Speaker 3: go back to it later. Well, all those many years
5:03
Speaker 3: I had, I was too busy to sit down and write.
5:08
Speaker 3: Then I came to my second episode of grief when
5:12
Speaker 3: my husband Michael died, so I was not I was
5:16
Speaker 3: too much in an emotional state myself that I couldn't write.
5:19
Speaker 3: But then in twenty twenty three, shortly after we did
5:23
Speaker 3: our previous podcast, I decided, okay, and now I'm going
5:27
Speaker 3: to do it. The book is called Coming Alive Again,
5:32
Speaker 3: which has been very much the theme of when I
5:38
Speaker 3: loved one dies, you a part of you dies with them,
5:44
Speaker 3: and that has to come alive again otherwise you will
5:49
Speaker 3: leave yourself and I have seen that happen, So the
5:55
Speaker 3: book is focused on that coming alive again. And the
6:01
Speaker 3: book is two parts. One part is explaining talking about grief.
6:12
Speaker 3: What is grief, how do you deal with it? How
6:15
Speaker 3: long does it last, what do you expect? How do
6:17
Speaker 3: you deal with a person who is in grief? Ah,
6:22
Speaker 3: what do you do when you're in grief? What can
6:25
Speaker 3: be helpful? So I call that a practical part of
6:29
Speaker 3: the book, and half of the book is communication with
6:35
Speaker 3: your loved ones in the afterworld. And that is of
6:42
Speaker 3: the tools that I am have been given to people
6:45
Speaker 3: and of the tools that I have applied myself. Communication
6:50
Speaker 3: with the other side has been my my life, my life,
6:59
Speaker 3: help to to get through this, and in that communication,
7:03
Speaker 3: I have been doing that in writing. I have made
7:06
Speaker 3: that part of my grief sessions with almost every person
7:10
Speaker 3: that I have ever done a grief work with.
7:13
Speaker 1: And connecting to their loved ones.
7:16
Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying, connecting with a lot of
7:18
Speaker 3: ones in writing and the difference between the way I
7:25
Speaker 3: have been giving the two people and I have done
7:27
Speaker 3: that myself. Uh And and a lot of suggestions that
7:34
Speaker 3: people do get in grief therapy. Oftentimes people are recommended
7:40
Speaker 3: to journal and to write to the person who passed away.
7:49
Speaker 3: My tool, my technique, but because it is a technique,
7:54
Speaker 3: is to have them write back. However, since they don't
8:00
Speaker 3: write anymore, I write it for them. So in this way,
8:07
Speaker 3: I have been communicating with my son and I have
8:10
Speaker 3: been communicating with my husband. So half of the book
8:15
Speaker 3: is about communications that I have had with both of them,
8:22
Speaker 3: and that has been it has been life savers. Really,
8:27
Speaker 3: that's so beautiful.
8:28
Speaker 1: I can't wait to read it. Yeah, that sounds amazing.
8:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, and some people may read it
8:33
Speaker 3: for the practical part, and some people may read it
8:36
Speaker 3: for the channel part. Because I call it channeled writing.
8:41
Speaker 3: Some people call it automatic writing. I do not call
8:44
Speaker 3: it automatic writing because automatic writing implies a little bit
8:49
Speaker 3: what happens to some people that your hand starts writing
8:55
Speaker 3: by itself almost you can't stop doing that. For most people,
8:59
Speaker 3: it doesn't quite work that way, and so people then think, oh,
9:05
Speaker 3: I won't be able to do that. Yes, every person
9:08
Speaker 3: can do this, but you have to get your mind
9:11
Speaker 3: out of the way and you have to just be
9:14
Speaker 3: willing to venture doing it right.
9:19
Speaker 2: Well, that's so beautiful. And if as our listeners are
9:25
Speaker 2: hearing this, you can get the book on Amazon or
9:28
Speaker 2: where is it available.
9:29
Speaker 3: The book is on Amazon, and I do have a website.
9:33
Speaker 3: The website is coming Alive again dot com and you
9:37
Speaker 3: can also find it under Amayra Hamilton dot com. And
9:42
Speaker 3: on the website you can read about the book and
9:47
Speaker 3: get in touch with you and get in touch with you.
9:50
Speaker 1: We'll put all those links in the podcast. Yea, that'll
9:53
Speaker 1: be great.
9:53
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
9:56
Speaker 2: Oh, Mayra, what a journey that it feels very not complete,
10:03
Speaker 2: but it feels very whole for you to have written
10:09
Speaker 2: now the book.
10:10
Speaker 3: Yes, I it's it's it does it has been. It
10:14
Speaker 3: has given a feeling of being fulfilled finally finally.
10:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful.
10:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:22
Speaker 1: I love how nonchalantly you said in the beginning that
10:27
Speaker 1: your son said to you that you needed to write
10:30
Speaker 1: about this grief. This was after he was gone, obviously
10:33
Speaker 1: that this came through. And you know a lot of
10:38
Speaker 1: the people who are listening to this are going to
10:39
Speaker 1: be saying, well, you know that doesn't make sense to me. Well,
10:44
Speaker 1: it doesn't doesn't need to make sense. As I look
10:49
Speaker 1: at the experiences that I've had what I call channeling,
10:53
Speaker 1: A lot of times for me, it's with music. Yeah,
10:56
Speaker 1: And where I find that the channeling coming through with
10:59
Speaker 1: music is when I I can quiet my mind down
11:02
Speaker 1: and become still and find presence that that space opens
11:07
Speaker 1: up where this lies in whatever it appears. Well.
11:11
Speaker 3: And the way the way that particular thing happened that
11:14
Speaker 3: was not so much in becoming quiet, that was actually
11:18
Speaker 3: I was talking with a friend about actually about a move,
11:26
Speaker 3: and I have this kind of you know, it's so
11:29
Speaker 3: easy to let go of this beautiful house. That's kind
11:33
Speaker 3: of amazing. And then I hear my son's voice in
11:38
Speaker 3: my ear as lively as if he were standing next
11:41
Speaker 3: to me, and I said, Mom, you have been able
11:43
Speaker 3: to let go of me. This is just a house.
11:48
Speaker 3: And by the way, you have to talk about this,
11:50
Speaker 3: you have to share this with others. And it was
11:54
Speaker 3: really as if he were standing That's beautiful. It was
11:59
Speaker 3: that clear, and it was really his voice. And I
12:02
Speaker 3: have this kind of what.
12:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing.
12:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really powerful. Yeah, how did you process that?
12:14
Speaker 1: Then?
12:14
Speaker 2: I mean, once you heard that, it was like, kind
12:18
Speaker 2: of what did you feel in your body? Right away?
12:20
Speaker 3: In that moment, what I felt in my body was
12:24
Speaker 3: kind of my heart was kind of as if it
12:27
Speaker 3: was bursting open, and I had this kind of yeah, yeah,
12:31
Speaker 3: I need to do this, Yes, I need to do this.
12:33
Speaker 3: And at the time I did work with people, I
12:37
Speaker 3: did massages and I did counseling. I just had not
12:43
Speaker 3: brought that grief part in and so I had this
12:47
Speaker 3: kind of yeah, actually, yes, so before I knew it,
12:53
Speaker 3: I had some people who came with a grief story,
12:56
Speaker 3: because as I have found over the years, so many
13:01
Speaker 3: people have some piece of unresolved grief in there in
13:05
Speaker 3: their backpack. And so so it started to happen very
13:10
Speaker 3: very spontaneously that it showed up.
13:16
Speaker 1: How long was it after he had passed, that this
13:19
Speaker 1: happened three years?
13:20
Speaker 3: Three years after Yeah, And looking back at it, that
13:25
Speaker 3: that took a long time. When I well, I always say,
13:30
Speaker 3: and that's also part in the book, there is no
13:33
Speaker 3: time on grief. You cannot say it takes so much time.
13:39
Speaker 3: It takes whatever it takes. However, when I look back,
13:44
Speaker 3: the time that it took for me to come to
13:49
Speaker 3: some kind of balance after he died was much longer
13:55
Speaker 3: than the time that it took until I found some
13:58
Speaker 3: kind of a balance Michael died. Now that can be
14:04
Speaker 3: part of the relationship. But I also I think in
14:08
Speaker 3: the first place that all the work that I had
14:11
Speaker 3: done on myself in those years after my son died
14:16
Speaker 3: have changed me. The son, my son's death changed me forever.
14:21
Speaker 3: And so I think that everything we do that we
14:27
Speaker 3: learn from can benefit us if there is a new
14:31
Speaker 3: situation in our life that may have similarity, but that
14:36
Speaker 3: uh that h in a sense deals with similar issues, right,
14:46
Speaker 3: but it's never the same, It's never never the same.
14:50
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, it's it's unique.
14:54
Speaker 3: It's unique. Yes, yes, there's not.
14:56
Speaker 1: A structure we can say this is the way it's going.
15:00
Speaker 3: You cannot say, Oh, I've dealt with one with one
15:04
Speaker 3: source of one reason for grief, so now I have
15:08
Speaker 3: mastered it, Like I have a driver's license and I
15:11
Speaker 3: know how to drive a car well a little bit.
15:16
Speaker 3: But in a new situation, you still have to go
15:21
Speaker 3: through new layers of grief, right.
15:26
Speaker 2: Well, because the loss has its own aspect of what
15:31
Speaker 2: it meant to you.
15:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, But also the circumstances are always different. That's
15:36
Speaker 3: why in the book I have mentioned a whole list
15:39
Speaker 3: of different types of grief. You know, whether it's a
15:43
Speaker 3: parent or a child, or a partner or and the
15:47
Speaker 3: circumstances that that takes you in can be completely different.
15:51
Speaker 3: For example, after my son died when I was he
15:57
Speaker 3: did not. He was twenty eight, so he didn't live
16:00
Speaker 3: with me anymore. So when I came back to Sodona,
16:07
Speaker 3: it almost felt like in my everyday life nothing had changed.
16:13
Speaker 3: And that felt so weird because my whole world was
16:16
Speaker 3: upside down, but in my daily life everything was normal.
16:24
Speaker 3: That felt schizophrenic. Now, when your partner dies, it's completely
16:30
Speaker 3: the opposite.
16:32
Speaker 2: Right, because your day to day is so different.
16:34
Speaker 3: Your day to day is so different. You do you
16:37
Speaker 3: you're sitting alone for your meals, your bed is empty,
16:40
Speaker 3: your I mean, so that the circumstances are in each
16:46
Speaker 3: situation different, and that was then in my situation.
16:50
Speaker 1: But would you also say that the manner that they
16:54
Speaker 1: pass also if it's something super sudden, you know, a
16:56
Speaker 1: car accident or something like that, relative to something drawn
17:00
Speaker 1: out where they have an illness, or even you know,
17:03
Speaker 1: taking their own life. There's so many different ways that
17:06
Speaker 1: that happens, and each one of those also have a
17:10
Speaker 1: unique way of interacting.
17:13
Speaker 3: And one of the things that I have learned from
17:15
Speaker 3: that is that not one way is easier than another,
17:20
Speaker 3: because very sudden is shocking. But for example, my Michael,
17:32
Speaker 3: he went very sudden. The previous three years have been
17:37
Speaker 3: the best years in our relationship and our whole life together.
17:41
Speaker 3: On the day that Michael died, the husband of a
17:47
Speaker 3: dear friend, study friend from so a friend from sixty
17:51
Speaker 3: years ago died. He had been in a nursing home
17:57
Speaker 3: for three years. Totally demand Now, what's worse right? All
18:04
Speaker 3: the gratitude that I could feel about the wonderful time
18:08
Speaker 3: that we had had together until very recently, and all
18:13
Speaker 3: the problems that my friend had had with her husband,
18:20
Speaker 3: and still it's difficult when they then go, I mean,
18:25
Speaker 3: so every circumstance brings its own dynamics and its own
18:31
Speaker 3: circumstances that give a color to the grief that is
18:35
Speaker 3: going on.
18:38
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that we met you during that period that
18:42
Speaker 1: you're talking about, and we were able to get to
18:45
Speaker 1: know Michael and interact with him and meet him and
18:48
Speaker 1: listen to his wisdom. What a human he was.
18:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, And they say grief is love. The
19:03
Speaker 3: more love there is, the deeper the grief feels. However,
19:08
Speaker 3: a relationship where there is a lack of love, what
19:12
Speaker 3: is the depth of the pain of what was never there?
19:16
Speaker 1: Yeah?
19:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh man, Yeah.
19:20
Speaker 1: So.
19:22
Speaker 3: Every reason that I have to be grateful both for
19:25
Speaker 3: my son and my and my husband that we had
19:29
Speaker 3: this wonderful relationship, that they were lovely people, that they
19:34
Speaker 3: were successful people, that you know, what a gift, what
19:40
Speaker 3: a gift. But you know the pain of them being gone, Yeah,
19:45
Speaker 3: that is that is something you have to find a
19:47
Speaker 3: way to deal with.
19:50
Speaker 1: As we were talking in the beginning, before we got
19:53
Speaker 1: started here, aging was one of the things we wanted
19:56
Speaker 1: to go into as well. And you know, as we
20:00
Speaker 1: look at that, you and I looked at each other
20:03
Speaker 1: in the eye and said, well, you know, people are
20:06
Speaker 1: afraid to die. Yeah, yeah, and and that so that
20:10
Speaker 1: that going through that process of aging, you're afraid to die,
20:13
Speaker 1: and you're afraid to experience others around you dying, all
20:17
Speaker 1: of that, and it's hard because our society has not
20:25
Speaker 1: offered us ways to to prepare for that, to be
20:29
Speaker 1: ready for that, to be okay with that, and embrace
20:34
Speaker 1: it in a way that we recognize that it's a
20:36
Speaker 1: part of our life.
20:38
Speaker 2: It's a part of living.
20:39
Speaker 1: It's a part of living. It's not it's not something
20:42
Speaker 1: to push over in the corner and never talk about,
20:46
Speaker 1: or it's something to actually well.
20:49
Speaker 3: And that is that is one of the things that
20:51
Speaker 3: can easily come with grief. Ah, can you choose to
20:58
Speaker 3: confront it? Can you choose us to deal with it
21:01
Speaker 3: rather than trying to push it away and to put
21:05
Speaker 3: it in that corner of the topics that we don't
21:07
Speaker 3: talk about. And in that sense, the actual grief experience
21:13
Speaker 3: can help you to to confront you to be realistic
21:21
Speaker 3: about the end of this life, because there is an
21:27
Speaker 3: end to this physical life, whether we would like to
21:30
Speaker 3: talk about it or not. And yes, as you say,
21:33
Speaker 3: you know, our society is not so oriented on that.
21:36
Speaker 3: And on the contrary, our society is very much focused
21:41
Speaker 3: on eternal youth, which of course is not the case
21:49
Speaker 3: and we know that. But yeah, now, yeah, how do
21:54
Speaker 3: we how willing are we to give that thought and
21:59
Speaker 3: make the part of our discussion.
22:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in the aging process kind of sneaks upon you.
22:07
Speaker 2: We were talking about how it can feel when you first,
22:12
Speaker 2: like for us, when we first make a decision to retire,
22:15
Speaker 2: and we're like, oh, we have now freedom to go
22:17
Speaker 2: and do something else and do this and that, and
22:20
Speaker 2: then we have to really check with ourselves to say, wow,
22:23
Speaker 2: where's our energy level because we sort of fantasize that
22:28
Speaker 2: you'll be able to do these things with the same
22:30
Speaker 2: energy of when you desired to do them when you
22:33
Speaker 2: were younger. And that's really just not true.
22:36
Speaker 3: No, that's not true. No, from that perspective, I always yeah.
22:42
Speaker 3: I think the best way to say is this smile
22:45
Speaker 3: about that expression that you see a lot in advertising
22:49
Speaker 3: kind of you know, the golden years, you know, get
22:54
Speaker 3: yourself good shoes for your golden years. Well, I mean,
23:00
Speaker 3: how golden is that? Yes, that is something too that
23:05
Speaker 3: you know, the have twos of in our younger years. Uh,
23:11
Speaker 3: can be can be stopped. But I think that the
23:16
Speaker 3: period of the golden years relatively is for most people
23:21
Speaker 3: relatively short. So the the excitement about okay, no longer
23:27
Speaker 3: having to go to do this and then going out
23:32
Speaker 3: to do some traveling or whatever. Okay, that is the
23:35
Speaker 3: ideal of the golden years, right and and and and
23:40
Speaker 3: that is that is reality. That is true, and that
23:43
Speaker 3: is wonderful, and that's beautiful, and that is what a
23:45
Speaker 3: lot of people do, and that is good. However, there
23:49
Speaker 3: is more to it, and maybe maybe that the whole
23:57
Speaker 3: aging situation has come more on my path as my
24:04
Speaker 3: years are progressing. I mean, I'm a really good shape,
24:15
Speaker 3: and I notice I do not have the energy I
24:19
Speaker 3: used to have when I was younger, when I was
24:22
Speaker 3: the energizer bunny and could do just anything. I can't
24:27
Speaker 3: do that anymore. And that frustrates me. How do I
24:31
Speaker 3: deal with that frustration? And how do I deal with
24:36
Speaker 3: looking around me and seeing people of my age of
24:41
Speaker 3: or considerably younger that are in much lesser shape than
24:47
Speaker 3: I am. And that's all part of aging. I live
24:52
Speaker 3: here in a fifty five plus community, so I see
24:56
Speaker 3: people around me that are I see couples where the
25:04
Speaker 3: one is becoming the caregiver for the other, and that
25:08
Speaker 3: is not easy, and that has all to do with
25:12
Speaker 3: aging and being a caregiver. When you're my neighbor lady,
25:16
Speaker 3: she is eighty three and she is the caregiver for
25:18
Speaker 3: her husband, and she said, yeah, I had not exactly
25:23
Speaker 3: signed up for that, but this is the situation, you know,
25:27
Speaker 3: So how do we approach that? And how can we
25:33
Speaker 3: be realistic about that? And how do we deal with that?
25:38
Speaker 3: And aging is not so easy? And you know, and
25:43
Speaker 3: sometimes people who get older are admired because they are
25:49
Speaker 3: so optimistic and they are not complaining and they are
25:53
Speaker 3: never whining and However, how do they feel, you know,
26:00
Speaker 3: so there is no room for a person who's getting older.
26:05
Speaker 3: That is kind of, you know, not always in the
26:11
Speaker 3: optimal space, you know.
26:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. When my brothers and I get together,
26:18
Speaker 1: I'm the youngest of six, and when we get together
26:23
Speaker 1: many many times, one of the main things that is
26:27
Speaker 1: a topic of discussion is, you know, where we're at
26:29
Speaker 1: health wise? Yeah, what are the things that we're dealing with.
26:34
Speaker 1: I've had a brother that's in remission from cancer, another
26:42
Speaker 1: brother that's you know what. Each of us have our
26:44
Speaker 1: own things, and me being the youngest, I'm observing it
26:48
Speaker 1: with all of them. Yeah, and I'm starting to experience
26:51
Speaker 1: it now myself. I'm sixty four, so I'm starting to
26:55
Speaker 1: experience some of those things myself. And I'm entering into
26:58
Speaker 1: that year. Those years. He has a friend that calls
27:01
Speaker 1: them the go Go years, the slogo years, and the
27:06
Speaker 1: no go years. Yeah, and you know that I'm I'm
27:10
Speaker 1: still I'm not definitely not go go. I'm in the slogo,
27:17
Speaker 1: but I don't look forward to that time of the
27:21
Speaker 1: no go I know it's coming well a certain point,
27:25
Speaker 1: but I feel like you a little bit less motivation
27:29
Speaker 1: for some of the things. But I do still want
27:32
Speaker 1: to travel. You know, we like traveling, We like going.
27:35
Speaker 1: Why we're here, you know, we drove down here for
27:37
Speaker 1: the weekend. We like to do things like that.
27:39
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, well I used to do that too,
27:44
Speaker 3: And I'm noticing that that desire is kind of going
27:51
Speaker 3: away a little bit. And then I think kind of,
27:54
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, we always thought kind of you know,
27:58
Speaker 3: when you're younger, you keep your head straight, keep your focus,
28:02
Speaker 3: and you know, because it's all you can all make
28:10
Speaker 3: that and that is being admired from people. Oh that
28:14
Speaker 3: person is in the eighties and they still take their
28:18
Speaker 3: touring caravan and they go you know, yeah, some people do,
28:26
Speaker 3: but a lot of people don't, and the younger people.
28:31
Speaker 3: And you know, I have to be honest. When I
28:34
Speaker 3: was younger myself too, I didn't bother myself. I didn't
28:38
Speaker 3: occupy myself too much with those kind of thoughts.
28:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all.
28:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, And and that's in itself good because
28:50
Speaker 3: a thirty five year old should not live in the
28:54
Speaker 3: same world of thinking as a seventy year old. I mean,
28:58
Speaker 3: it's a healthy situation. However, that does not make that
29:02
Speaker 3: does not mean that the aging is all piece cake well.
29:08
Speaker 1: And there is a number that when you arrive at
29:11
Speaker 1: this number, that means because it's every it's subjective, each person,
29:17
Speaker 1: their their life span is going to be, what their
29:20
Speaker 1: life spent span is going to be, and you know
29:22
Speaker 1: the health issues that arise and whether you are still
29:25
Speaker 1: ready to go go or logo or no go. I've
29:30
Speaker 1: got a good friend of mine who comes to all
29:32
Speaker 1: of these Primitive Skills gatherings that I attend, and he's
29:34
Speaker 1: in his eighties and he shows up spray and I mean,
29:39
Speaker 1: he's super inspiring, but he's super health conscious as well.
29:45
Speaker 1: The thing that he struggled with a lot is his eyesight,
29:49
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to go in and get a surgery.
29:52
Speaker 1: He didn't want that, and so he tried a lot
29:55
Speaker 1: of different ways to to try and help that, natural
30:00
Speaker 1: ways to try and help that. But I think eventually,
30:03
Speaker 1: I think he's he actually did have surgery, at least
30:07
Speaker 1: on one eye. It just became you know, he's still driving.
30:11
Speaker 1: He drives from Colorado to Utah to come to these
30:14
Speaker 1: gatherings and he's inspiring to me. So that's that's the
30:19
Speaker 1: dude I want to be.
30:19
Speaker 3: Is that guy all right. But the interesting thing is
30:23
Speaker 3: we all want to be that guy, but everybody has
30:28
Speaker 3: guess what, it doesn't always work.
30:29
Speaker 1: It doesn't.
30:30
Speaker 2: It doesn't well because I'm kind of laughing. Even on
30:33
Speaker 2: our drive down, Scott's saying to me, Wow, look at
30:36
Speaker 2: all how these people are driving, you know, the zip
30:40
Speaker 2: and bias really fast. He's paying attention to the speed limit,
30:44
Speaker 2: and I could tell. I'm like, we're going to get
30:47
Speaker 2: that will only continue to become more noticeable is how
30:52
Speaker 2: we prefer to drive and travel the roads and how
30:55
Speaker 2: others actually drive.
30:57
Speaker 3: I sometimes have to real laugh about myself off because
31:00
Speaker 3: I was always a speed demon. So you know, you
31:03
Speaker 3: can you can get at least five miles over the
31:06
Speaker 3: maximum right without being without getting getting caught. And I
31:12
Speaker 3: was always there, and nowadays I'm five miles I think,
31:17
Speaker 3: and I keep laughing, and nice kind of people think,
31:20
Speaker 3: oh yeah, white hair, old lady behind the me.
31:26
Speaker 2: Yes, I totally get it, and I do. I agree
31:30
Speaker 2: with you that people want to be like that optimal version. Yeah,
31:36
Speaker 2: And but for the majority that isn't what happens. I mean,
31:41
Speaker 2: even as we traveled this time to Greece and Turkey
31:45
Speaker 2: with my siblings, we all became.
31:48
Speaker 1: Very aware of limitations, the.
31:51
Speaker 2: Limitations that the younger crowd that was traveling with us
31:55
Speaker 2: didn't have, and we were opting instead of the thousand steps,
32:01
Speaker 2: we took an uber and we said we'll meet you
32:03
Speaker 2: at the top. And it's totally okay that we do that,
32:07
Speaker 2: Like we're not going to shame ourselves or say, oh,
32:10
Speaker 2: we should have pushed harder. We can still do it
32:12
Speaker 2: because what's there to prove? Right, And I think that's
32:16
Speaker 2: the thing, and it's.
32:17
Speaker 3: A healthy way of doing things, because you know, this
32:22
Speaker 3: need to prove is not a healthy thing, right.
32:26
Speaker 2: And I think that's just becoming aware of your limitations
32:31
Speaker 2: and honoring them and just trying really hard to minimize
32:35
Speaker 2: them as much as you can will make the aging
32:38
Speaker 2: process easier. I think it's when you become in resistance
32:43
Speaker 2: to aging that everything then seems to accelerate, where if
32:49
Speaker 2: you become more in harmony with like you know, it's
32:52
Speaker 2: like my hair. You know, I was dyeing my hair, Amira,
32:57
Speaker 2: ever since I think around forty, well actually maybe even younger.
33:01
Speaker 2: I started to get a lot of white hair, and
33:04
Speaker 2: I just kept dyeing my hair and dyeing my hair
33:06
Speaker 2: and It got to the point that I was almost
33:10
Speaker 2: dyeing my hair like every ten days, and finally my
33:15
Speaker 2: head hurt, like my scalpitched. And I turned to Scott
33:20
Speaker 2: one day and I said, I'm just gonna let my
33:21
Speaker 2: hair be what it wants to be. And I'm so
33:26
Speaker 2: glad and I did, And you know, I think it
33:29
Speaker 2: immediately made people more aware of the likelihood of how
33:33
Speaker 2: much older I was than what I than they had
33:36
Speaker 2: perceived me to be. But it's given me such permission
33:40
Speaker 2: to be who I am and my hair is. I
33:45
Speaker 2: let it be curly. Now I used to straight iron it.
33:47
Speaker 2: I just allow my hair to be what it is.
33:51
Speaker 2: And now I'm like, I can't believe I put chemicals
33:54
Speaker 2: on my crown as much as I was doing for
33:57
Speaker 2: what reason.
34:00
Speaker 1: Remember when you used to straighten your hair and I
34:02
Speaker 1: loved that it was beautiful, but and also and also
34:08
Speaker 1: and also, uh, you would sometimes just let it be curly,
34:14
Speaker 1: and you always ask me which I preferred, and what
34:17
Speaker 1: did I absolutely, yeah, because it's there. It's so naturally curly. Yeah,
34:24
Speaker 1: it's perfect.
34:24
Speaker 2: Well, and it's really it surprises me when people compliment me,
34:28
Speaker 2: like even checking out of the hotel, the girl goes, oh,
34:32
Speaker 2: your hair is so pretty. Yeah, and it catches me
34:35
Speaker 2: because I have a perception that I'm that older and
34:42
Speaker 2: pretty do not go do not go together. So I
34:46
Speaker 2: get caught off guard when people say that, but I
34:51
Speaker 2: get it a lot, don't ilutely. Scott's with me all
34:53
Speaker 2: the time, and they'll stop us, and Scott says, it's
34:56
Speaker 2: because it's curly, and it's this, and it's that, whatever
34:58
Speaker 2: it is. But again, I think, and give whatever you're
35:01
Speaker 2: in resistance to versus that you align and let it
35:04
Speaker 2: be in harmony with you. Everything feels so much better.
35:11
Speaker 1: You needed to do something to match my beard.
35:13
Speaker 2: Well, and then you just kept we look very much
35:18
Speaker 2: like we belong together, which is perfect. I want to
35:21
Speaker 2: look like we belong together.
35:22
Speaker 1: I thought my hair was brown until like two years ago,
35:27
Speaker 1: and then she asked me what color my hair was
35:29
Speaker 1: and I said brown. She goes, your hair's not brown.
35:32
Speaker 1: I said, well, look at it. It is. It's brown.
35:34
Speaker 1: And then I took a little closer look in the mirror.
35:36
Speaker 1: It's great. It's not white. No, it's not what but
35:41
Speaker 1: it's definitely not brown. It used to be.
35:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you know, and a lot of it has
35:47
Speaker 3: to do with accepting whatever age we have accepting that
35:55
Speaker 3: what is is. When we are younger, we have not
36:04
Speaker 3: been so good yet oftentimes at accepting what is is,
36:10
Speaker 3: whether it's the color of our hair that we feel
36:13
Speaker 3: the need to dye or or whether it's other things.
36:18
Speaker 3: And I think that is one of the benefits of
36:23
Speaker 3: growing older, of aging, that that becomes easier to accept
36:29
Speaker 3: what is is. It's just that you know, in this
36:35
Speaker 3: more mature age group, there's more things that we have
36:41
Speaker 3: to accept what is that are not always so easy,
36:45
Speaker 3: So there is a shift in the level of what
36:48
Speaker 3: we need to accept as compared to when we were younger.
36:53
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think I think that is maybe becoming
36:59
Speaker 3: a little white.
37:01
Speaker 2: Well, and that I believe is part of the reason
37:03
Speaker 2: why community is so important, where the generations still live
37:09
Speaker 2: collectively together, that the aging aren't isolated to live by themselves,
37:14
Speaker 2: that they are still part of community, because that wisdom
37:19
Speaker 2: can gently say like, oh, you should accept what is now.
37:23
Speaker 2: Maybe the younger generation won't hear it like we didn't
37:26
Speaker 2: when we were younger, But I think just having that
37:28
Speaker 2: balance and that the space for that conversation is so important.
37:34
Speaker 2: And I definitely think the younger generation is reaching for
37:38
Speaker 2: that more so than we reached for it when we
37:40
Speaker 2: were younger. I think so too, Yeah, because I see
37:44
Speaker 2: that in the healing groups. The younger generation seems to
37:47
Speaker 2: say quicker because I've said, wow, at thirty, I wish
37:52
Speaker 2: I would be where you are at thirty to some
37:56
Speaker 2: of these people. And I didn't get there till fifty, right,
38:01
Speaker 2: I didn't start contemplating that until I was like fifty,
38:05
Speaker 2: and they're thinking of things in their thirties. So I
38:09
Speaker 2: do think there's more room for that shared experience because
38:14
Speaker 2: people will come along faster and have such a different
38:17
Speaker 2: perspective for longer aspect of their lives. And how beautiful
38:22
Speaker 2: will that be? Yeah, I think that will change the
38:25
Speaker 2: collective experience tremendously.
38:28
Speaker 3: I believe so too.
38:32
Speaker 1: So as we're as we're sitting here talking about this
38:36
Speaker 1: part of aging, How did that play into your decision
38:40
Speaker 1: to move back to Holland and let's talk about that
38:44
Speaker 1: a little bit.
38:45
Speaker 3: Okay, coming back to that topic. Yes, that definitely has
38:50
Speaker 3: everything to do with it because I realized that in
38:54
Speaker 3: this phase of my life, I have decided that I
38:58
Speaker 3: want to be closer to my daughter, and my daughter
39:02
Speaker 3: wants me to be closer to her, just you know,
39:08
Speaker 3: in case, right now, I'm in good shape, but in
39:12
Speaker 3: case I would become less good in shape and I
39:18
Speaker 3: might need some assistance or whatever, she says. You know,
39:22
Speaker 3: there's just nothing I can do. I'm just too far away.
39:25
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and I feel the desire to be closer
39:30
Speaker 3: to her. Besides, we have it's very interesting. We have
39:35
Speaker 3: realized that after her teenage years, there has been two
39:41
Speaker 3: years in our life that we were not a continental
39:44
Speaker 3: part and we have this kind of you know, let's
39:48
Speaker 3: changed that. Yeah, so, yeah, I want to be closer
39:52
Speaker 3: to her in the first place, being closer to my family, yes,
39:56
Speaker 3: that too.
39:59
Speaker 2: You still have siblings.
40:01
Speaker 3: I have two younger sisters and two younger brothers. But
40:05
Speaker 3: of course we are all in the same seventies age group.
40:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're now in the same community that you were
40:11
Speaker 2: when you were children.
40:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, where do you fall in the line
40:17
Speaker 1: of them? Just curious, I'm the oldest, you're the oldest.
40:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they are the younger ones. But yeah, so
40:28
Speaker 3: to just to be closer to them. And in addition,
40:33
Speaker 3: there is a little complication that my daughter has twenty
40:37
Speaker 3: years ago, had a little bit of an issue with immigration.
40:41
Speaker 3: There was really nothing going on, but it created a
40:44
Speaker 3: red flag. So her possibility of coming to visit in
40:50
Speaker 3: the United States could be leading to problems. It has
40:56
Speaker 3: not in the past, but at this moment that could
41:00
Speaker 3: could happen.
41:01
Speaker 1: So those are not as they were, right.
41:03
Speaker 2: Things can get complicated quickly.
41:05
Speaker 3: Here, things can get complicated. So so that that made
41:11
Speaker 3: it for me. Yeah, I want to go back. I
41:18
Speaker 3: I want to be I'd want to be closer to her.
41:20
Speaker 3: Very simple. However, when people when I tell people that
41:25
Speaker 3: I go to the Netherlands, people in general, people very
41:30
Speaker 3: are responding very much kind of oh, how nice, how exciting,
41:36
Speaker 3: and well it's also double because I have been here
41:41
Speaker 3: twenty nine years, as I said, and I have a
41:44
Speaker 3: lot of friends here. My my my world has been
41:48
Speaker 3: here for thirty years. And yeah, I have been gone
41:53
Speaker 3: in Holland for thirty years. So it's it's it's it's
41:58
Speaker 3: it's going to be so socially, from a social perspective,
42:03
Speaker 3: it will be different. Although I do have friends there,
42:06
Speaker 3: I have old friends there, but I also have friends
42:09
Speaker 3: there that I made while I was here in the
42:11
Speaker 3: United States. So that is nice to.
42:17
Speaker 1: Know.
42:18
Speaker 3: I don't think so when I'm when I'm realistic, I
42:21
Speaker 3: think kind of, you know, hey, am, I don't don't
42:23
Speaker 3: worry about that. The political situation Holland is not the
42:30
Speaker 3: way it used to be. Uh that that is a
42:34
Speaker 3: little bit kind of difficult for me to kind of yeah, embrace.
42:43
Speaker 3: I always had this idea that the Dutch were very
42:49
Speaker 3: open minded. Well that is over, that's no longer and
42:55
Speaker 3: so so yeah, I that that is not the easiest,
43:01
Speaker 3: easiest way mhm. And that is what is what what
43:06
Speaker 3: I find difficult with this move. I have moved across
43:10
Speaker 3: the ocean. This is my fourth time. Wow, and this
43:15
Speaker 3: is by far the most difficult. And then I think,
43:18
Speaker 3: did I forget about how difficult the previous times was?
43:21
Speaker 3: Now the previous times I just did it, And now
43:24
Speaker 3: it is just more Oh all that needs to be
43:29
Speaker 3: done for that and and and and getting rid of
43:33
Speaker 3: all my stuff and how do I do this? And
43:36
Speaker 3: how is that going to happen? And it's it's more
43:39
Speaker 3: difficult to to live with the uncertainty that I do
43:43
Speaker 3: not know exactly where I'm going to live in the beginning.
43:47
Speaker 3: And so it's it's it's it's it's a challenge.
43:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, four times you've moved across the ocean.
43:56
Speaker 3: Yes, I uh, in in my even I was in
43:58
Speaker 3: my ear and was it in my thirties. I lived
44:02
Speaker 3: in the Caribbean for eight years. So we moved there
44:05
Speaker 3: with the family, with a young family, and then I
44:08
Speaker 3: moved back to Holland, and then in ninety seven I
44:12
Speaker 3: moved here, and so now I moved back.
44:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's Dutch Islands in Caribbean. That's where.
44:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where we went. Yeah. Yeah, we worked there
44:25
Speaker 3: as teachers and yeah, yeah, very very interesting, beautiful time.
44:33
Speaker 3: But you know that was a decision kind of oh yeah,
44:37
Speaker 3: oh that is going to be exciting, you know, an
44:40
Speaker 3: adventure to an adventure, and I this is also going
44:46
Speaker 3: to be an adventure, but a little bit of a
44:48
Speaker 3: different nature. And I'm not sure whether that whether I
44:58
Speaker 3: I do relate it to age. I'm still not completely
45:03
Speaker 3: sure whether I can blame.
45:05
Speaker 2: That on my age an aspect of it, right, because
45:09
Speaker 2: you don't have the energy. The move requires so much
45:13
Speaker 2: more energy now it does, and then the energy that
45:16
Speaker 2: came so naturally. I look at when I was twenty
45:19
Speaker 2: five and moved to New York, and now the thought
45:21
Speaker 2: of moving to New York City does not even appeal
45:25
Speaker 2: to me at all. Yeah, and so there's a lot
45:29
Speaker 2: of energy that you have to step into for big
45:32
Speaker 2: moves like this. Yeah, even if it's returning home. Like
45:37
Speaker 2: you said, home has changed.
45:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, And that's so interesting what you were saying.
45:42
Speaker 3: And I hear that quite a bit when people, when
45:45
Speaker 3: people ask me, or when I say that I go
45:47
Speaker 3: to the Netherlands, Oh, you're going home, And that's kind
45:52
Speaker 3: of uh, you know, I have always very stubbornly maintained
45:58
Speaker 3: at home is where I am, right, That's where I
46:02
Speaker 3: make my home, So it's Holland home.
46:06
Speaker 1: Well.
46:06
Speaker 3: I can understand the expression of kind of going back home,
46:10
Speaker 3: going back to you, but I prefer to call it
46:13
Speaker 3: I go back to my native country. I do not
46:18
Speaker 3: know yet how at home I'm going to feel there.
46:22
Speaker 3: I am not sure. And and have I been gone
46:28
Speaker 3: so long that I will never feel completely at home anymore?
46:36
Speaker 3: I am not sure.
46:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.
46:39
Speaker 2: I do love that you say home is where you
46:41
Speaker 2: are because you kind of you kind of we feel
46:44
Speaker 2: that way. You carry home with you, and yeah, you'll
46:50
Speaker 2: have to see how that feels because you'll be there.
46:53
Speaker 2: So from that aspect, it'll be home if home's with you, right,
46:57
Speaker 2: But it's like, but is it home because this is
47:00
Speaker 2: where it started? Is my origin really home?
47:05
Speaker 1: You know?
47:06
Speaker 3: Right? And and then and then I wonder, Okay, how
47:10
Speaker 3: at home have I always been in the United States? Well,
47:17
Speaker 3: you know, maybe I I at some point I realized
47:25
Speaker 3: that I have also considered my living here from a
47:31
Speaker 3: visitor perspective, And how at home is that.
47:38
Speaker 1: From what perspective?
47:39
Speaker 2: Visitor?
47:40
Speaker 3: Visitor perspective? And totally enjoying what I perceived as a visitor,
47:48
Speaker 3: But how at home is that?
47:50
Speaker 1: Right?
47:51
Speaker 2: That's such a beautiful question to just ask, Right.
47:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, can I offer something from from because we came
47:59
Speaker 1: from the same place in Idaho. We were born and
48:03
Speaker 1: raised in the same little, very small town, very small town,
48:08
Speaker 1: and I like to go there. I like to go there,
48:13
Speaker 1: and I like to visit. I probably now in our
48:17
Speaker 1: retirement years, I could probably live there. There's things about
48:21
Speaker 1: it that I maybe don't like. But I had an
48:24
Speaker 1: experience just the other day that kind of brings this up.
48:28
Speaker 1: And it's kind of where Rey and I connected back
48:31
Speaker 1: to that when we first started dating again. This was
48:35
Speaker 1: twenty ten, twenty eleven time frame, because we would go
48:39
Speaker 1: home and visit. My mom was still alive at the
48:41
Speaker 1: time and her dad was, and we'd go back and
48:44
Speaker 1: stay with them and visit. But what was what made
48:49
Speaker 1: it home for me was it was less about the
48:54
Speaker 1: place and even the culture and the people, but it
48:58
Speaker 1: was the feeling of that place, the natural feeling of
49:04
Speaker 1: that place. So I was invited by a good friend
49:08
Speaker 1: of mine that I went to high school with the
49:09
Speaker 1: other day to go to his home, which is close
49:11
Speaker 1: to this place, and the natural world there is all
49:15
Speaker 1: the same. And we got on his boat and went
49:17
Speaker 1: out in the swamps and went fishing, and I got
49:20
Speaker 1: to hear the red winged blackbirds, and I got to
49:23
Speaker 1: hear the yellow headed blackbirds and all these sounds that
49:26
Speaker 1: and where I'm living now I don't hear unless I
49:29
Speaker 1: go out in the swamps and the marshes, I can
49:31
Speaker 1: hear them again. But it just brought that feeling of
49:35
Speaker 1: all those things from my childhood back of when I
49:39
Speaker 1: would be out there fishing and hunting in the marshes
49:42
Speaker 1: and experiencing that, And it really for both of us,
49:48
Speaker 1: brought us to that place of feeling that deep connection
49:52
Speaker 1: to the earth in that place, because that's where that's
49:55
Speaker 1: where my connection to the earth really started, was there. Yeah,
50:00
Speaker 1: So you know, maybe for you, because I know you
50:02
Speaker 1: love nature too, and I know you love being outdoors
50:05
Speaker 1: and hiking and all of those things. Maybe how do
50:09
Speaker 1: you feel about that, Maybe that's one of the things
50:12
Speaker 1: that can help you integrate back into that.
50:15
Speaker 3: I'm not sure, Scott, because I experienced things today different
50:24
Speaker 3: than I did when I was much younger and there.
50:29
Speaker 1: Was no nuns. This is from our conversation earlier, because
50:36
Speaker 1: she was in a boarding school for a number of years.
50:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was that was a less pleasant experience.
50:46
Speaker 3: But the so you're my childhood's memories, I'm sure they
50:57
Speaker 3: there they will come back. Like for example, for example, uh,
51:03
Speaker 3: you know the Arizona weather, you can't be dead of course,
51:07
Speaker 3: other other than okay, we're entering the hot season. But
51:12
Speaker 3: all those days with bright sunshine and much light and
51:17
Speaker 3: I skinned. Oh and I go back to Holland there
51:20
Speaker 3: so much grainess and there's so much chilliness and there's
51:23
Speaker 3: so much rain and everything. Yeah that makes that makes
51:28
Speaker 3: the country green. But I have childhood memories that I
51:33
Speaker 3: had this kind that I really enjoyed, sitting at home
51:37
Speaker 3: and then hearing the rain on the windows and being
51:41
Speaker 3: comfortable at home. So I am hoping that I will
51:45
Speaker 3: be able to connect with these old memories. And yes,
51:52
Speaker 3: the memories with the boarding school memories, that is a
51:56
Speaker 3: little bit, but what should feel at home are oftentimes
52:02
Speaker 3: the younger memories. I have experienced my boding school period
52:06
Speaker 3: as kind of a little in a sense traumatic, but
52:14
Speaker 3: I was eleven at the time, and I think your
52:17
Speaker 3: your childhood, your real childhood memories. That makes the deepest
52:20
Speaker 3: impression that younger those are at a younger.
52:23
Speaker 2: Age, starting around five, five, six, seven, yeah, or even
52:29
Speaker 2: younger or even younger, yeah, depending on your ability to recall.
52:33
Speaker 3: Them, even when you do not specifically recall them. But
52:40
Speaker 3: you know, the forming years they always say, you know,
52:43
Speaker 3: the forming years are before your seven. So I think
52:48
Speaker 3: even if you don't exactly remember exact memories per se,
52:55
Speaker 3: but that's that basic feeling of how you feel, I
53:00
Speaker 3: think is the basis is laid before before the age
53:05
Speaker 3: of seven.
53:06
Speaker 1: I think so too.
53:07
Speaker 3: So from that perspective, I may do a little dramatic
53:11
Speaker 3: about my body school period, but maybe.
53:15
Speaker 2: A lot of joy from the younger years being because
53:18
Speaker 2: you were the first child. Yeah, so connecting back to
53:22
Speaker 2: what that felt like, that freedom, when when did you
53:25
Speaker 2: at what age did you have a sibling? Oh?
53:29
Speaker 3: Soon soon?
53:30
Speaker 2: Okay, so you'd had siblings pretty young?
53:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had siblings pretty young. So my sense of
53:35
Speaker 3: responsibility of being the oldest with with my younger ones.
53:40
Speaker 2: That kicked in.
53:41
Speaker 3: That kicked in very very early on. So yes, I
53:45
Speaker 3: was as a young young kid, I was a pretty
53:49
Speaker 3: bossy little girl because you know, I had to be
53:52
Speaker 3: in charge of younger ones young.
53:55
Speaker 2: I totally get that.
53:59
Speaker 1: I didn't have that. Yeah you didn't.
54:01
Speaker 2: You didn't have that.
54:02
Speaker 1: I was getting bossed around a lot. That's all of.
54:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well so that's coming soon, this Big Adventures,
54:12
Speaker 2: there's chapters that are coming to fruition, like you're writing,
54:18
Speaker 2: but you'll probably continue writing.
54:21
Speaker 3: Well, my sister keeps telling me, kind of you have
54:24
Speaker 3: to make a Dutch translation of your book. Yes, because yes,
54:29
Speaker 3: a lot of people do read English in Holland, but
54:33
Speaker 3: in my family, for example, the level of English is
54:37
Speaker 3: such that they have so far not decided to buy
54:40
Speaker 3: my book. And it's not that I need to make
54:44
Speaker 3: a translation per se for my family. But yeah, so
54:50
Speaker 3: that is a consideration that I'm going to make a
54:53
Speaker 3: Dutch version and then the book needs to be modified
54:58
Speaker 3: then a little bit too. But which is interesting because
55:02
Speaker 3: if I do that part of it is easy because
55:06
Speaker 3: I told you about the channel parts. The part that
55:11
Speaker 3: I did with my son was originally written in Dutch
55:14
Speaker 3: because I communicate with him in Dutch, so I had
55:18
Speaker 3: for the book. I had to translate it into English
55:22
Speaker 3: to make it ready for the book. So now the
55:25
Speaker 3: communication with Michael that was in English because that was
55:29
Speaker 3: our So it's kind of kind of interesting how that works.
55:35
Speaker 3: So that that channel part that is ready to.
55:39
Speaker 2: Go, that's beautiful. That's beautiful.
55:45
Speaker 1: Well, am I. As as we kind of moved to
55:48
Speaker 1: wrap this up, is there any advice that you have
55:53
Speaker 1: anything that you'd like to share to close this out?
55:58
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think we were earlier we were talking about aging.
56:03
Speaker 3: I think if we live our life as much in
56:10
Speaker 3: a state of awareness and most of all in a
56:15
Speaker 3: state of gratitude for every opportunity we have, I think
56:20
Speaker 3: then that's the best chance that we make the most
56:23
Speaker 3: of it and that we never have to have regrets
56:27
Speaker 3: on if only we had done this, or if only
56:31
Speaker 3: we have done that. So be loving of yourself, be
56:40
Speaker 3: good to yourself, taking good care of yourself. And that
56:47
Speaker 3: sounds all about yourself, but if you do that, that
56:51
Speaker 3: means that you can be loving and taking care and
56:56
Speaker 3: be understanding and be accepting of others. M because without
57:02
Speaker 3: the loving of yourself, you cannot love anybody else. So
57:09
Speaker 3: I think the best way to prepare for the aging
57:15
Speaker 3: process is to do exactly that. And once you're in
57:20
Speaker 3: that category of uh, let's say, the more mature years
57:25
Speaker 3: or the golden years, to still make the most of
57:30
Speaker 3: it and keep not exactly not fighting it, come finding
57:42
Speaker 3: a new balance in accepting things, accepting that things are
57:49
Speaker 3: the way they are, and at the same time always
57:54
Speaker 3: also stretching ourselves to to see what we can do
58:01
Speaker 3: and to see how we how we see things, and
58:05
Speaker 3: to be compassionate with with others and with ourselves. Mm hmm.
58:12
Speaker 1: That's so beautiful, wonderful. Thank you for being here, allowing
58:16
Speaker 1: us to come in and take advantage of your wisdom
58:20
Speaker 1: and listen to you and your sharing.
58:23
Speaker 3: Well, that's fun. And thank you for the opportunity to
58:29
Speaker 3: to communicate with you guys, because it's always fun and
58:33
Speaker 3: to do that in a way that it's being well,
58:37
Speaker 3: that's others, others can be sharing this. Thank you.
58:44
Speaker 2: I think I treasure our friendship. So even though an
58:47
Speaker 2: ocean will separate us, I don't see us not staying
58:51
Speaker 2: in touch and being in touch and still communicating.
58:56
Speaker 3: Yes, sure, stay in touch.
58:58
Speaker 1: We can always do a zoom. Yeah, we got the
59:02
Speaker 1: zoom now.
59:05
Speaker 2: And Holland is someplace I would love to see.
59:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you are being invited to my eightieth birthday party. Yay,
59:14
Speaker 3: because I'm going to do a big party. Let us
59:17
Speaker 3: know in September this year, this year.
59:21
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, we need to know the day. We
59:25
Speaker 2: need to look at that.
59:26
Speaker 3: September thirteenth.
59:28
Speaker 2: Okay, that's your birthday.
59:31
Speaker 3: The birthday is on the twelfth, but the location where
59:33
Speaker 3: we want to do the party, well, it fitted better
59:38
Speaker 3: to do it on Sunday, to said the thirteenth. Yeah,
59:41
Speaker 3: so if you're planning a trip to Europe.
59:43
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll look at that. Yeah, that's a perfect time
59:45
Speaker 2: to tie it all in.
59:47
Speaker 1: A fellow virgo, I'm the eighteenth I know, Yeah, I know,
59:53
Speaker 1: I probably told you that a long time ago. All right,
59:56
Speaker 1: so we'll close then for now, and we'll make this
1:00:01
Speaker 1: happen again sometime and hopefully we can see you inceptim.
1:00:07
Speaker 2: Perfect, Yes it would, thank you, Thank you, Amra.
1:00:12
Speaker 1: All right, so until next time, bye bye. If you're
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