Latest / Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul / Between Worlds: Biracial Identity, Immigrant Guilt, and Self-Worth with Serena Arora, Author of UNBOUND

Transcript

Between Worlds: Biracial Identity, Immigrant Guilt, and Self-Worth with Serena Arora, Author of UNBOUND · Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul

• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to today's episode of the Healing Her Story Podcast.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am I'm always so delighted for the guest interviews.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're always so much fun.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And today's guest and I were just chatting a little bit before we started, and it's already just been such a lovely start to our conversation.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really excited to explore more.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Also, we've been having uh more authors on the show, and as I've been interviewing more authors, I've wanted to be more intimate with the author's creation.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I myself have been listening to Serena's book over the past couple of days, and I've been so touched by her story, and I'm really excited to learn a little bit more about how this book came into creation and just more of the nuances of this conversation around the topics in Serena's book.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to be exploring all those things and so much more.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And as we are in Gemini season, we'll also be exploring this idea of plurality and duality.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you find yourself in a position where you kind of have one foot in one world and one foot in another world, this conversation might deeply resonate with you.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Serena, best-selling author of Unbound, yoga therapist, Ayurvedic health practitioner, and teacher devoted to helping women connect with who they truly are beneath conditioning and external expectations.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Born in Canada to a Chinese mother and Indian father, Serena brings over 25 years of lived experience and Eastern wisdom to her work, blending yoga, Aururveda, and conscious relationship practices to support women in living more boldly, loving more consciously, and returning home to themselves.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: A former teacher and director for Troubled Youth, Serena now lives in Costa Rica, where she facilitates trainings and retreats focused on healing, embodiment, and sustainable soul-led living.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Serena.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: What a lovely introduction.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always love to reflect back to the guest.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me, Reva.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's such an honor to be here.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, Serena, we always start with um inviting the guests to share their story.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you just wrote a book that tells your whole story.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe listeners might want to learn more about your story there.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So today I'm wondering if you can tell us about the story of the book and how Unbound came to be.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Unbound, an immigrant daughter's journey of reckoning, unraveling shame, and reclaiming her worth, uh, has been a long time project of mine.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it took me about two years, I'd say, to from start to finish to write my book.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what came to me, it's been a whisper for about more than 10 years saying, write your book, write your book.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I had no idea what to write about.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, for me, I am, like you said, I'm been a yoga therapist for over 25 years and um an Ayurvedic health practitioner.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it has, I thought, okay, I'll, I mean, it made only sense to write a book about Ayurveda or yoga therapy, or you know, how to help women and people, um, as I do with my clients and my students.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what kept coming back to me every time I would wake up and first thing in the morning, I would sit and then I would go, it's okay, write my book.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: What kept coming to me was no, you have to tell your story.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And my own story, to me, what I noticed at the end of the book was that the thread that carried was carried through my own journey, 50 years of life, the life journey, was that that was the yoga, that my entire life, uh, you know, Ayurveda means the science of life.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, so what was I gleaning?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: What were the lessons that I have learned throughout this lifetime and the patterns that I've carried with me?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And how did I break those patterns so that I could really at this point in my life look back and see the patterns that kept repeat, kept themselves on repeat.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And no matter where I went, I moved cities, countries, continents, and traveled the world in search of something that was within me the entire time.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, yoga teaches us to look within.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it is this inner landscape exploration that I invite my students to do every time they step foot on the mat.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: But for me myself, why I was looking outside of myself for an answer, you know, was my work was to to do what I practice what I preached.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the another reason why I wanted to write my book was often because at my retreat center in Costa Rica, um, you know, oftentimes we'll get guests and they're like, wow, you've done this.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we just have conversations over a meal.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, wow, you've done so many things in your life.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, you know, I really have.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I I wanted to honor the work that I've done and also show people that getting here was not a linear path.
• 7:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that it took detours, falling flat on my face and getting back up, and then also the conditioning that I was carrying with me that really wasn't even mine, and that had influenced and impacted my life as an adult in so many ways, in more ways than I even realized.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like a really um, I don't know, intense feels like a strong word, but I imagine it must be very confronting having to reflect on your life in such a deep and intimate way.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I wonder if the patterns, like if you noticed those while you were in the process of writing the book, or if there was like a reflection period before you started writing where you started to see these patterns more clearly, or maybe a little bit of both.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it came through me, my real my book, and I know people say that often, but it really did.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: I sat there and what I wanted to tell the story was all these pivotal moments of my life that had were really visceral.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like they they felt almost I could remember how they felt, how they smelt, how um, you know, the the visual about it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: When I was a little girl, you know, I was very observant and I lived in my head for a long time.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I would go through these experiences and I remember the voices, the people.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so those moments, those stories were in me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I could write within just an hour, you know, I'd sit for an hour, I'd get up at, you know, at dawn.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I live in Costa Rica, so it's easy to get up when the sun rises.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I would write my my my my the story that came to me.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, what am I gonna write about today?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it didn't come in order, it came just however it came.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so perhaps it was like when I was a teenager and you know, this experience that I had when I was a teenager or when I was four years old, as in your the chapter three that you've read.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like that experience has been with me.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wrote these stories, and then it wasn't until I had written all the stories that had really been with me this entire time that I noticed what is the through line and what how did one story impact the next, impact the next, impact the next?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And how because you can have a story, but in order to create a book and to write a book, it's it's really like how is this how did this journey affect me and and and and bring to light the lessons that you said, the insights that came to me.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that came to me as to answer your question, and that came to me as I was writing the book.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and how I realized so many experiences of when I was very young really affected me when I was older.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: For example, you know, my uh an experience with my dad that when I was very young, like four years old, and how that really started to shape my relationship to men, yeah, to boys when I was a teenager, to um my relationship in general, my relationships in general, and the longing that I had that I was looking for, it was looking for validation outside of myself, looking for never being wrong again.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was I felt wrong in that situation.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and how misunderstood I felt too.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there's um, as you said, mentioned in the introduction, I'm half Chinese and half Indian, and I was born in Canada.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I was constantly living in this culture gap, yes, but also a very um almost a gap within myself, this can this lack of understanding.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was constantly either doing uh like translating or you know saying something that wasn't quite understood by you know, my dad and mom, they grew up during the Second World War, they grew up in countries that were completely different than where I was growing up.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't really understand how they grew up and where they grew up, and they couldn't really understand my experience.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's this gap.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And in that misunderstanding, oftentimes is just swept for us in my Asian culture.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was it's swept under the rug.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: We don't speak about it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so how at 50 years later, I'm at this point where I'm I'm really look thinking about all these misunderstandings and how I felt misunderstood in my life, but I've had this grit that has carried me through to just force myself to move forward and to, you know, push myself in my career.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's gotten to me, gotten me where I am today.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And yet it had really stifled my sense of intuition and to be able and the pause and to be able to listen to what I really wanted and how I really my own trust to be able to trust my own voice.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so this grit has given me a lot of things, and I call it in the book, I call it immigrant because you know, it was something that I inherited from my parents.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: They were immigrant, immigrants that, you know, traveled the world and then they um ended up in Canada and they were, you know, worked hard and they they worked hard to put food on the table and a roof over our heads and give their kids and their family what they didn't have necessarily.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I got the privilege to, yes, carry that those, that deep resilience that they they gave me, and also the privilege to be able to spread my wings and follow my own path and to question things, you know, to not they never really questioned things.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: They just did what was they were taught.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I was a bit of a rebel and I would question things.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I they saw me that way, you know, they saw me as a bit of a rebel, but it really was my inquisitiveness.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was a very curious little girl and teenager.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And as an adult, I I always wondered, there's got to be more than this, or what else is there?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I would, I would look kind of beyond survival.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for me, it was like, how do I thrive?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: What is how do I become fulfilled?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I followed a path, you know, I became a teacher and a middle school teacher of uh French immersion, and um and I followed this path to that didn't feel it felt like I was in a box.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I knew there had to be something else that felt much more fulfilling.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was on a quest basically to been on a quest for that um for that my entire life.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I can definitely hear that in your story.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I do agree with what people have reflected back to you that you you have had very rich experiences and um a lot of different ways that you've experienced and interacted with life.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I also get really curious about the stories that you shared, um, not only from your personal background, but also from the background of your parents too.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was so um with you in those stories, and I was really curious about how you collected those stories, if these also came from like memory, or if there was a process of like sitting down with your parents and and listening to their stories as well.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love this question.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so my dad, you know, uh being Indian descent, I spoke he has a he would, there were 11 kids in this family.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he had 10 brothers and sisters.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um I've spoken to him and them a lot about this, about their story and about their journey.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they come from uh, you know, it was they were in a place uh that is now Pakistan.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they lived there before uh India's partition and before India's independence.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so they had to escape.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do tell the story in the book.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um each of their versions, you know, I spoke to a couple different uncles and old the eldest uncle that was actually um responsible for uh helping them all get to a place where they were able to move uh to India or to New Delhi and um escape what was then um a very precarious situation.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um and then of course I hear heard it from my dad, who was 12 years old at the time, and you know, as much as he could remember.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a younger uncle uh younger than my dad, and he uh, you know, does tell the stories of what he was told, you know, when he was growing up.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so they all have their own version, and we've had many beautiful, it's just it's just fascinating.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, listening to them speak, and I will sit in their homes and they'll talk about this foundational pivotal moment in their lives.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was really like the most uh important time of their life of leaving one place and finding making a life in another place.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is the true store, true immigrant immigrant story, you know, it started when they were very, very young.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um while I wanted, I asked my uncle very a lot of questions, you know, he he was a little bit hesitant to give answers.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for him, because he was older, you know, he was in his 20s, and so for him, he viewed it as as much more um, I would say traumatic than some of the younger children because he knew what was at stake.
• 18:25
  unknown: Right, yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, which was really their lives.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so from that side, I definitely know the story in great detail.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I'm I'm lucky and feel so uh grateful and lucky that my dad, he's 91 now and he's still, you know, very lucid.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he's you know, I I love learning from him and him telling a lot of stories.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: He's a he's a storyteller, yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So like me.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think maybe that's where I get it from.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um with my mom, however, you know, I definitely she held back.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as we were younger, when I was younger, and I would ask questions and I would often get an answer, like, why do you want to know?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I'd be like, Oh, what about when you were, you know, and she she she never really um felt it never felt like it was a open, it was a welcomed conversation.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just didn't really um ask anymore.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did have conversations, you know, with her siblings, and so that was different, and so they were a little bit more open, and I've um and I've learned from them some of the the stories that um they came from, what my mom came from as well, which is also the reason why it's called unbound, you know.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really, and like you um we talked a little bit earlier, like my mom says, she's a very private person.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's not very, she doesn't like sharing a lot about anything.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um now she's 86 and she has Parkinson's and dementia, and I'm caring for her at this time.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she was the reason why I knew I needed to look at my past and potentially even her past and look at the generational patterns.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't think I was going to write a story about my mom.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I did, I really didn't think.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I thought maybe I'd introduce her and then that would be it.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was writing my book, I realized she just kept coming in the book and through the lessons and through my own journey and how much I was repeating patterns that she had taught me inadvertently and subconsciously taught me, and how I realized oh, this isn't the story of my my dad, and this this is a story about my mom and this maternal lineage and this feminine energy that we carry.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And in the last chapter of my book, I really tie it all together of why I wrote this book was this experience of mothers to daughters or grandmothers to mothers to daughters to their daughters, is um we pass it down.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it is through the womb, it is through the blood, it is through this um sacred feminine energy that I realized as I was walking with my 86-year-old mom with bunions on her feet.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: She was walking on a layer of fear, and she had carried this fear with her for as long as that even wasn't hers.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So the reason why my book is called Unbound is because my mother's grandmother's feet were bound in China.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and so this is an old tradition and a practice that um is quite barbaric, actually.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they would take young girls' feet and they would plunge them, hello, plunge them in hot water and then break their bones and then bind their feet and to try.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the goal was to get a three-inch foot.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the foot was uh termed coined lotus foot, the lotus foot.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the more closely you were to a size lotus foot size, the more marriageable you would be.
• 22:28
  unknown: Wow.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so my grandmother escaped that.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: She ran away.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: She ran away from home and she was quite young, and she absolutely refused to get her feet bound.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so the courage that you think about, you know, in 1900 or 1905 or seven, and how courageous it would be for a young girl to run away from everything that she's known.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And she found my grandfather, they ran away to Malaysia.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, in essence, my grandmother, you know, broke a pattern and ran away, and she escaped something.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: My mother escaped that same fate, and in essence, so did I.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yet we were still walking on these very tightly bound, unbound feet on this layer of eggshells or of fear with trepidation and you know, doubt.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we carried it in different ways, but we and we also did break patterns in our own way.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I realized I don't have a daughter of my own.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But when I saw the pattern play out with my sister.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And her daughter, my niece, who is very similar to me, I realized I am the one that has to break this pattern.
• 23:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that the next generation, she just doesn't have to carry it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for weaving that in because that maternal line is so powerful.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you shared about being in the womb.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And if we like think back, like at one point you were in your, you know, your mother's body, and your body was in your grandmother's body.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so you were experiencing everything that they were experiencing.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And this is how it all gets passed down, too.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I really hear you, yeah, on that fear too.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes so much sense because, like you said, it takes so much courage and it's such a great risk to take these leaps into the unknown.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think it makes a lot of sense that, yeah, there was this thread of fear that was also being passed down too.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, it's interesting how we can inherit both.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like we inherit both the pain and the traumatic imprint that that leaves in our system.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we also inherit uh the resilience as well.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And just the beauty in that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is that I think thank you for saying that.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe in something that just came to me just now is that we are given a maternal.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: We we I do believe we choose our parents, and and so it's like, do we have what it takes to really face what we've been given and then decide what is it that we get to keep and what is it that we uh leave uh leave, you know, leave with them.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I see now, you know, with my mom's disease, and it's and you know, a lot of old trauma coming up with her dementia, a lot of old memories, and and I think, okay, this is this was hers to work through.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe she didn't get to her body, you know, she didn't get to herself, she didn't get to her care for herself in the way that she needed in her time.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: But she's given me this gift that I get to, and now I get to really see my body, listen to my body.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I didn't for the first, I'd say good half of my body of my life.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the last half, I really do hope that, and I believe that I'm, you know, I'm really I've been given the tools, I've been given the the lessons, I've been given the knowledge to be able to really um tap into that feminine wisdom that lives in our womb.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'd be able to care for myself in a way that she never could for me and that I haven't really been able to do for myself until now.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's beautiful.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, I'm doing this, it's not really I'm doing this for me.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm caring for myself in this way for the next generation.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I don't have children, you know, I do believe, I hope it's it's going to be for helping others, helping others in this way, having these kinds of conversations, writing my book, and it being a gift to other mothers and their daughters.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so let it be the work that ripples through um outside of my lineage.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you really um you brought in the ripple effect because that's a really component piece of the work that I do as well.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And really what keeps me going and keeps me showing up, walking my path each day is trusting in that ripple effect and the impact that it'll create, you know, not just for us, but for those who will come after us.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And something I always like to think about too is that I may never live to see the full impact of what we're doing.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also really, I don't know, fun to dream into, you know, wow, what might that world look like if we continue, you know, building on these layers.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what how could the world be completely different?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And how our mothers and our grandmothers really did pave the way for us and in their own way, in the capacity that they had and with the tools that they had, you know, and that's something that I've really been able to honor with my mom as I've been caring for her.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like giving her this love and this care that she never got.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she never really felt loved by her mother.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so how now being cared for by caregivers is a very challenging experience for her because she's been super hyper independent.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, this courage, everything looked, you know, she, my grandmother included, looked so courageous on the outside, and they were.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And yet deep within, it's because of this, you know, I can see this fear now that comes up within her.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I see that how I can heal that and help her at least help her resolve it in some ways before she goes.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, this is it.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the work, right?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: If I can resolve that within myself, then I can help her at least meet it and uh face it.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then this is where they, you know, there's this whole um, like a lot of research done on dementia of how it's been basically it's this unmet need that was never as a childhood need that was never resolved, and that it's coming out through dementia and and how much we're seeing so much dementia, and that what they're looking for, even though they've lost the vocabulary, they've lost the words, they've lost them, they're they're attempting to express their need so that they can be validated before they move on.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've never heard that before.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I would never have known this had I not done, you know, had my mother not actually had dementia.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: I may not have really like looked into it that much.
• 30:04
  unknown: Wow.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I'm gonna have to sit with that for a little bit.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know it's heavy.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is heavy.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it makes me think of um in the terms of trauma-informed care, there's you know, imprint of emotional neglect, and emotional neglect is an unmet need, and a lot of times it goes um unnoticed by many people because it's there's not like an event, what a moment when something happened.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like what didn't happen and what was missing and how significant that can be on our nervous systems, on our brains, and we really do miss yeah, we miss opportunities to develop certain skills and just yeah, wow, I can't believe there's that connection there.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it was okay, how do I resolve this so that I don't, you know, near near the end of my life, it's I I don't uh she's been a beautiful red flag for me, you know, and I and I think that's really important for people to hear is that our um, yes, our ancestors, but also like you know, the people that raised us, you know, they are it's in us.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: We absorb that at a very young age.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so how can we look at them and love them and accept them and and also see that what they what we are and who we are is because of them, and that the parts that we maybe don't want that aren't ours, we can leave behind.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I call this image guilt, you know.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I coined that other phrase.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I had this image guilt of like, oh, I felt so um indebted to my parents, and I felt like I had the same uh experience that they had with their older siblings or their parents that they felt that they were indebted to them.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, you know, and and it almost there's this guilt I feel of especially for immigrants or immigrant children, is that they sacrificed so much for us.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if we don't actually um, you know, please them or be successful in their eyes, or right, then somehow we're failing, or we've failed them, or we've brought shame to them.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so that guilty backpack that I was carrying in that Immiguilt backpack to me, it was like, okay, I can let that go because I get to choose how much I put in there.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: No one can make you feel guilty, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is like that's something you take on and that you choose to carry.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I could choose to let that go.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I see my mom and I just I was like, I accept her.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: I accept her for who she is, not for who I wish she had been for me.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then I did that with my dad, and I'm still doing that, you know, and they've done the best with what they had, and I I honor that.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so now I get to do the best with what I have, which is far more than what they had.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you you mentioned your your mother and and your father, and I'd love to kind of touch on those two aspects of yourself.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: I myself am also biracial.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: My dad is Haitian and my mom is white.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: She's got a couple different um European uh ethnicities in there.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I know how challenging and just how interesting and how uh just nuanced that experience can be.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, could you talk a little bit about what that experience was like for you?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or what it is like, because given that you are still in it, experiencing it is maybe in a different way now.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I grew up in the 70s, I was born in the mid-70s, and I grew up in the 70s and 80s.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: So in a very, very white city and world in Western Canada.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was asked, What are you my entire life?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe that I thought I knew who I was, and yet every time someone would ask me, What are you, it planted a seed of doubt and mistrust that maybe I did know who I was.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really noticing how much of that that I carried with me that was pushed onto me as um, this is who you are, versus me really finding an identity.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe, although mixed children, you know, there were straddling two cultures or or more.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so for me, it was like three cultures, really.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and when I saw that there was a gap, not only between my parents and myself, but there was a gap between my parents, you know, they didn't quite understand each other's culture fully and um, you know, buy into it or, you know, live it, embody it really, you know, and um so I definitely saw the resistance that they had to each other's, or like maybe the um the not understanding, you know, and and then also I felt like there was a little bit of a lack of curiosity.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, like I said earlier, I was so curious.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, and and that's what I think the second generation immigrant children, or like the you know, the ones that they we have a lot of curiosity, you know, it's like because we've had to straddle this experience, it's like okay, what curious about this lineage, this, and then cure maternal, and then paternal, and then my own.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh, you know, I've traveled the world.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it was always so I was fascinated by cultures and different um languages, and fluent in French and English, and I have a little bit of working Spanish now, and um, and you know, my we went to Chinese school when we were little, and um, and I was grew up around Hindi, even though my parents, my dad's family speaking Hindi a lot.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was languages were always a really um I love I absorbed it quite well and I could learn different languages, and and so I believe that created almost um this multifaceted uh adult that I became.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like, oh, I could do this, and then oh, I could do that, and oh, I'm really good at this thing.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I and so what ended up happening was, you know, after I I never felt satisfied necessarily in the thing that I did.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I became a teacher and then I quit that and I uh owned a group home for youth age 10 to 17.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had um my yoga school and then I had opened a yoga studio, and like it was just, you know, I had my yoga business, now an Ayurvedic practitioner.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have a retreat center in Costa Rica.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was this always reinventing myself anywhere I went, and it was I was actually really good at it because I wasn't really attached to one particular culture or identity, or yeah, like I and there was no tether necessarily.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and so when I think about feeling untethered, you know, I that's I do believe that's where my sense of freedom, my really my yearning for freedom, my yearning, but also and also fulfillment.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted the freedom, and yet I still wanted an experience where I felt fulfilled, a relationship that I felt uh fulfilled in.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there were so many changes in my life, and I changed my life over and over again.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yet what I realized was like, okay, I'm I can do it, I can reinvent myself, I I feel successful, quote unquote, in this.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And where's the fulfillment?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized was I had to pause, I had to stop, I had to not move anymore, I had to be still and go inside and find the the beauty of my resilience and to to stop the immigrant, stop pushing, stop forcing, stop, stop um putting my head down and going without even looking, bringing my head up.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was like, okay, I can close my eyes and I can still stand tall in that, and I don't have to hide, and I don't have to um, you know, even expect anything from my where I'm going to be, like the destination, you know, it was like, okay, this is the journey, and just enjoying the journey of it and not feeling like I did feel like I failed.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was like I would be like in one place and I'd be like, oh, it'd start again and then stop that, and I'd start another job, or it'd start another relationship, or it'd start another.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I was became this entrepreneur, was like, okay, I'll just do another thing in another country.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then where does it end?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I do believe that that was part of why I was able to, you know, morph myself into what was needed.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and also I was on a quest to find my roots because I there that's so, you know, yes, there's freedom, yes, there's uh, you know, beauty in the expansion.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And without roots, there's, you know, you just float away.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it is very unfulfilling.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes a very unfulfilling, sort of shallow um experience.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did, I and what I realized, I guess, was that even though I was looking for my outside of myself for my roots, I would go to India and I would travel to India.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: When in doubt, go to India.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was my motto.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I have lots of family there, and they're very loving and welcoming.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, I found my roots.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: But in essence, I it wasn't actually, you know, they didn't I know my experience in how I grew up.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they lived a very different life than I did.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: And even though we were blood related, it was, you know, we didn't necessarily relate on that level.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I, you know, what went to um, you know, finding my mother's roots and you know, family.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a very family-oriented person.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always about, but I was never in the same place that my same city that my family lived in.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so the way that I realized finding roots was not outside of myself.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, how do I descend in my own self, into my own space, into my own knowing and that own my own wisdom?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that I can fully root in there.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, this is what I taught.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: I taught root to rise in yoga.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: I taught feeling rooted in my, you know, Ayurvedic and myself.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: And once I started my self-care practice, like really a daily self-care, Ayurvedic self-care practice, that's when I found my roots.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beautiful.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: So much polarity in there and really hearing your experience of both and like the freedom, and I feel like the flexibility and the adaptability that kind of having a foot in both worlds really gives you.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I experienced that in my life as well.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can kind of like show up in these like different circles and different places, and I can kind of shift and change, not in a way where I'm like shape-shifting who I am, but there's just different aspects of ourself that can kind of come out in other ways that they might not.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then also kind of how that can also disconnect you from your root and really being grounded into something, not necessarily a place or a location, but something within yourself that you can connect to that can really ground you and center you.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite the journey.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds like, yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I did, you know, and there's part of the uh later on in the book, I do talk about my experience in um teaching and studying at the Ayurvedic Institute and you know, learning this stuff.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized, what I realized was, I mean, I lived in my head, like I said, I lived in my head, I thought my way into things.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, okay, how do I think, I think, I think.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what I I didn't when I got introduced to the ethereal world, when I got introduced to the planets, when I got introduced to womb energy, when I got introduced to um Vedic astrology, like all of the things, I was like, we are very small in this big, big world and and universe.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the universe has a plan.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe, like, you know, I ended up in Costa Rica.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: I asked the universe, I wrote a letter to the universe, like, okay, this is a moment.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've been thinking my way through relationships, I've been thinking my way through my career, I've been thinking my way through um life.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's like, oh, I can actually trust that the universe is actually supporting the lesson because every time it got uncomfortable, I would run away.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Run away, this is uncomfortable.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is feels I could not sit in the discomfort.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized when I realized this universe was like, here's the lesson, and it's so uncomfortable that you're gonna have to stay.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when you stay in that discomfort, because every time you disappear, every time you run away, I'm gonna give you a the same lesson, and it's gonna get louder and it's gonna get harder, and it's gonna get more uncomfortable.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so after it was about 40 years of my life, I realized, oh, I have to stay in this uncomfortable situation, and that's when I can grow.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I grew from those experiences, and I would I would sit in the universe, I would sit and I'd ask the universe, oh, what am I here to learn?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: What are you trying to teach me?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: What and I would ask, and I never really did that before.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I really thought I knew what I was doing, I knew the answers.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew, I thought I could control it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if and really I once I released that and I sat back and I trusted and I said, okay, what's the lesson?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why, what is here for me?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, like there's that saying it's that the universe isn't doing life, isn't it you're not, it's like it's not doing it anything to you, it's doing it for you.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, how what was being what was happening?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was in a very, very uncomfortable like I was married and I got divorced, and then I was in a very uncomfortable uh relationship after that.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, what's the lesson?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was very, very difficult for me to sit in that, and but I did, and it was like I realized because I realized that that moment, that lesson, that person was the feeling I told you earlier, I could feel these situations, my visceral experiences and memories, and that experience of me sitting right beside that person was almost exactly how I felt when I was 16 years old.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the lesson the universe was trying to teach me then, but I did not have the capacity to understand it or learn it.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, 35 years later, it's like, here's the lesson.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was like, oh, yeah, okay.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's never too late, huh?
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, or 25 years later.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was really listening to how I felt in the moment and I realized, okay, I need to just live through this and sit in the discomfort.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it took me a few times, you know, this is the later chapters, but it took me a few times.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then the one last time it was like, okay, what's here for me?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when growth happened, that's when change happened.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was very painful, but it was very um, you know, necessary.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe we're in relationships for that reason to grow, to change.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like the I was in an easy relationship, you know, but it didn't really grow in it.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe that's why I didn't feel that fulfilled.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I believe that we need to grow and shift and transform, and that's where fulfillment comes.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of like fill the space so we're fulfilled.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we if we're not growing, then we can't fill that space.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: We fill that space with other things.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: We fill that space with external things, we fill that space with, you know, consuming, we fill that space with relationships that don't serve us.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, how can we actually make space first to grow, to sit in the discomfort, grow, grow, grow, grow, and feel much more fulfilled with our own our self?
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you're so right.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't, it's it's not possible to grow without that period of discomfort.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's very much a part of the process, and it's about learning how to really sit with it and be with it without trying to make it go away or needing it to change and being open and curious about what it can teach you about yourself, about the world.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not called growing pains for nothing.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, and there's a lot of us that, you know, we just don't want it.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do believe you can go through life and just run away and not not experience the growth and not like run away from the pain, run away from the discomfort.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, we're conditioned to really do that in our society, definitely.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking for comfort all the time.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I think about how the immigrant has shaped me.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, it was uncomfortable, you know, like being in not feeling understood, um, feeling in the, you know, trying to be in the gap.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if we talk about the gap, the culture gap, it's like, ooh, how do we grow into this space and grow our own identity to fill the gap?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what I talk about in the book is like I felt like I was in this chasm, consistently in this culture chasm of between people, between in relationships and within myself.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really had to become the bridge uh between the my these people, like basically my parents and myself, um, within the for the next generation.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there we can't be a very solid bridge if we haven't grown.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's just no possible way.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: We can't fill the chasm, we can't fill that gap.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do we and if we're not not fulfilled ourselves?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is my work was like, okay, how do I reparent myself?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: How do I give myself what I need first, what I didn't get, and then that way I can serve and be the bridge.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beautiful.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can really hear that in your work.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: And as we're kind of reaching the end of our time, there's a couple of things you've mentioned here, um, or two terms rather that you've weaved in a couple of times.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love to explore those a little bit more.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: The immigrate and the immigrant, which I thought was so clever.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just the polarity and the duality in in those things.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you could start with the immigrant, because I think as women, this is maybe something that we can relate to, and um, whether we find ourselves, you know, holding different identities or or whatnot.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think in general, women on a societal level, right, we're conditioned to to push through and to to get through it and to um yeah, kind of not rock the boat and to yeah, kind of override those quiet whispers of our body.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's something that I'm I'm always kind of needing new layers of within myself as well.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to hear a little bit more about um the polarity of the immigrant um in the immigrant.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yes.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: So immigrate was is exactly that.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's that forcing, pushing, controlling, um, manipulating, uh, giving advice.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a very disintegrated feminine energy.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something I learned.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's in a in you know, in this masculine world, very masculine-dominated world or you know, patriarchal world, it felt that um women now seem to be like, how do I find my voice?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do I need to do to speak up?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or I don't agree with this, and that's great.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I I firmly I want that for us.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: And where we miss what's happening is that when we're forcing and we're pushing and we're just speaking whatever is in our heads, we're missing the wisdom that is within that's lives deeper in us, the feminine wisdom that lives in our hearts, in our guts, in our wounds.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that energy is a very, and that voice is a very different narrative.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: That voice is not forcing, that voice is holding.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: That, you know, it is not pushing and manipulating and controlling, it's accepting and allowing and allowing others to have their own journey and including our children, you know, it's like, how do we actually be mothers that hold space that can give and nurture the flower that is our child and whatever flower they are, some are tulips, some are roses, some are cactuses, some are whatever.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so to give them what they need, you know, instead of giving them what we think, what we think with our heads that they need, or what potentially even what we need, you know, we're projecting our own needs potentially onto this next generation.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so that for me is the the grit, the immigrate.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's disintegrated, it's it's not connected to anything that feels um safe, you know, and I see it a lot, I see it often in these in kids that are, you know, they're they're living in these, I mean, there's a really a str a long, a big epidemic.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like so much anxiety.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Our our kids are.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be a middle school teacher and then a yoga teacher in schools, and you know, nine-year-olds were having panic attacks and anxiety.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I would teach them how to belly breathe to like calm their anxiety at night, and all of the and I'm like, nine years old, and we're where is this going?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, women, young women, young girls with like very, you know, deep period pain or menstrual psycho pain, or um, you know, they're living these very stress cortisol heavy lives.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, of course, social media plays a role, of course, in the comparison and all of that.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do we give them, you know, it's not about keeping them safe.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about giving them the tools and the resilience and the um the experiences to walk fully with unbound feet, you know, in their lives, putting one unbound foot in front of the other rather than walking feeling fearful or not trusting.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we've become that.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's really become a society of not trusting others.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so that Imma guilt was pushing me forward.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the Imagilt, like I said earlier, was like me walking forward.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: What I what I had to do was was realize that I wasn't walking the path that I was walking.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was carrying an Immagilt backpack, walking a path that wasn't mine.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, what am I going to do for this person?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: What am I going to do for someone else?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to make my parents happy, my parents proud, or what looks good, you know, on paper?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do I learn the next thing?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do I become smarter?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and all of the things.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas it wasn't this backpack to me, it was like, this isn't, I wasn't being, I was just doing.
• 56:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so the guilty backpack, once I set it down, now I could use my immigrate to change, find my compass, my internal compass, find my North Star, find the path that was truly mine, and use that same immigrant to move forward and push forward, not push, but really walk.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: Keep walking, putting one foot in front of the other, the resilience that that taught me to, yes, I might fall, but in trusting that this is the path for me, that the I know that this is the right path, that I'm going to grow in this path.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to feel more fulfilled.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to contribute.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to help.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to support others.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to nurture.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm bringing the wisdom, the feminine wisdom from my gut, from my heart, from my womb.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm going to be the voice.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's the voice that I have.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the narrative.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes the narrative that I share with the world.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the book, you know, the essence of the book.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Two really foundational themes in your story, it sounds like.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how one is kind of misguided and doesn't really send you on the right path for you.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: But when the awareness comes on, you can choose to use that same sort of energy in a way that is more fulfilling and more productive.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's something we can all really learn from you.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing that, Serena.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was, and you know, it took 50 years.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something I never learned.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I had to learn.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it didn't just come to me.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, okay, it's in me.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: So now how do I practice it?
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: And practice it so it becomes second nature.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so that we can have this beautiful, I can be this beautiful feminine energy and force for my mother, for my niece, for my stepdaughter, for all the women and their daughters in the world.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like if we could really tap into that, all of us, then that's where the strength lies.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we all have that power that lives within.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some of us are just um, we're kind of like a numb to it, or we're we're just not aware of the power that we hold.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a lot of people.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: Disconnected, too, is yeah, is reconnecting women with that force of power that lives within.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you think about it, like every being came out of a womb.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: How is that not the greatest power in the world?
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, exactly.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is the greatest power.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we think about and how resilient Mother Nature, mother, mother nature, the most incredible force that exists.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how can we argue with that we know better or that you know something that lives way up here in our heads has is more uh is smarter or or can lead the way.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we lead with our hearts, our guts, our womb instead of our heads?
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that is the feminine way, leading with like that lower half.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is very much the conditioning of our Western world to lead with the mind and to kind of think and and do our way through everything.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's a very, very strong uh program in our culture.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's a lot of the work that we're doing here, and a lot of the work that it sounds like you're doing with your book as well is is yeah, reconnecting women with with that lower half where the power really is.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can do it.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know that.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, any other final words for our listeners today, Serena?
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just just that, you know, that it is possible.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: We definitely have everything we need, and it lives lower, it lives deep down.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can start pause it, if we can pause and start behaving, speaking, and acting from our depths, then I believe we can change the world.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: I really do believe the world would come be a much feel more nurtured, feel more trusted, feel more connected.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's you know, the Dalai Lama said it in a conference in um in Vancouver when he was there, that the Western world, the Western woman will save the world.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I love that.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it really is us.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: We have everything we need, and we are able look at us.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: We live in different countries, we're on a conver, we're having a conversation, and so connecting the Western women connecting and nurturing each other and holding each other high um so that we can descend and really root, find from that rooted place, behave and experience life from that rooted place and pass that feminine energy onto our into the next generation.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said earlier, we may not live to see it, but it's our work to pass that torch down.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, really powerful stuff.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like having some tears sort of kind of well up behind my eyes, just really feeling into the power of that vision.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and I truly believe that as well.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've heard that message myself, so it's nice to hear that the Dalai Lama heard it too.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have hear the Western women, but I I, you know, I heard in a breastwork experience, you know, women will save the world.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a kind of a heavy, heavy weight potentially, if we're not mindful of how we're carrying that backpack.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do really believe in the power.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said about connecting and supporting each other to descend and to go into our depths, because it's it can be sort of treacherous waters if we haven't, you know, spent a lot of time down there.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we do need support to really learn how to navigate those waters.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: And can I just say that supporting other women doesn't necessarily always come with agreeing with them or like uh saying yes and and and being on their side and being their cheerleader.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's not necessarily how we can support women.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: I believe keeping women accountable and allowing them to mess up and learn from that messiness so that they can descend and find an integrated way of being versus this disintegrated feminine energy that we're seeing.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: And keeping people accountable for their actions, I do believe is going to be the support that most women need, you know.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I am seeing it more and more in our retreat center that, you know, these these women's circles and these um, you know, women's retreats and and now more and more men's retreats, which is fantastic.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and how they are we all need each other, we can't do this alone.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that we are more similar than we are um unlike each other, you know.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we are, yeah.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Serena, how can our listeners get in touch if they want to learn more about you or your work or yeah, the book, or yeah, come do a retreat with you?
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the website, my website is SerenaAurora.com.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um you can follow me on Instagram.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: I am on there, uh Serena underscore aurora.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can write the we'll put it underneath the notes.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, and the book is available on Amazon.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the audiobook, which I recorded myself.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know I love that.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's an ebook and also hard copies.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, wonderful.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll get all of those linked for our listeners in the show notes.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for your story and for your courage and for yeah, taking the time to be here today.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was a pleasure to be here.